1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 18 Dec 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 694       Contents: An example of a backup oddity ; BACKUP questions  (cache, DVD and multiple container files)  Re: Depth of 19" racks ?# Re: Free Full Version Agv Antivirus   Suggestion for bound volume sets$ Re: Suggestion for bound volume sets, Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point), Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point), Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point), Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point) Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic$ Re: Windows Media Player 11 Released  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 00:56:04 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>& Subject: An example of a backup oddity- Message-ID: <45862D5A.38F8806F@vaxination.ca>   E There was some discussion in the past where most said that backup had # very logical and correct behaviour.     / Here is an example of not so obvious behaviour:   @ $define/trans=(conc,term) source $disk2:[rebuild.<mumble>.NEWS.]  3 $SET DEF USRDIR:[JFMEZEI._MOZILLA.DEFAULT.<mumble>]   - $BACKUP/LOG SOURCE:[000000...]*.*  [.NEWS...]   G Expectation was that it could recreate the hiearchy contained in source D under the .NEWS directory. Instead, BACKUP created everything in theE [.NEWS] subdirectory. (the original has 3 directories under which are E definitions applicable to each news server). Backyup did create the 3 N directories in the source hiearchy, but it did not populate those directories.  D Quite the mess to clean up now because there were valid files in theD target [.news] directory so I can't delete everything and start from scratch again.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:25:53 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>D Subject: BACKUP questions  (cache, DVD and multiple container files)- Message-ID: <4586183C.4943B4A3@vaxination.ca>   E On Alpha, with the disk caches, when you do a BACKUP/IMAGE of a disk, G does backup fetch all data from disk blocks, or does it get blocks from * cache when they are already in the cache ?  D (In my case, when I did a back/up/image of a disk which had a driverG erroneoulsly write blocks, there were cases where files loaded in cache C still contained valid data whereas the disk copy was randomised, so E would my saveset contain the good cached copy or the bad disk copy of 
 the file ?     Second question:  D Is it possible to do a backupo/image of a 30 gig disk onto DVD ? Or D must there be a 30 gig drive where one can stage a series of 6 5 gigC container files where backup/IMAGE will write the saveset to, after 3 which one does the DVDWrite process to each drive ?   G I know that backup is able to write big savesets to multiple tapes with G the /label=(label1,label2,label3) qualifier. But is it able to write to D multiple container files ? Say I create 6 5 gig container files, howG would I tell Backup to write to those container files filling them in a 9 certain order ? (either directly, or via the LD driver) ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:02:51 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>! Subject: Re: Depth of 19" racks ? - Message-ID: <458604CB.CE434B97@vaxination.ca>    "Jeffrey H. Coffield" wrote:J > In all the "standard" Compaq & HP racks I have seen, there is a verticalI > piece of metal that is about 2/3's of the way back that is in the right ' > place for a DS10L slide to mount on.    F Interesting. So obviously, they didn't design the DSL10L rackmount kitC to be upwards compatible with the microvax II cabinet :-) Shirley I H wasn't the only one to upgrade from a MVII to a DS10L in the world ?????  G I ended up making some L shaped tracks out of fibreglass. Still need to G drill the holes to mount the L shaped tracks at the right height so the 7 that DS10L "handles" will match the holes on the front.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:49:16 GMT & From: nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL), Subject: Re: Free Full Version Agv Antivirus. Message-ID: <4585ba2e.14918261@news.zen.co.uk>  F On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 12:52:16 -0500, -mhd <not_real@invalid.com> wrote:  * >Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote: > D >>The free version of AVG is not being done away with. V7.1 becomes K >>unsupported as of next month but all you have to do is to upgrade to the  H >>current 7.5 free version. Some websites incorrectly reported that the G >>free variant was being dropped based on the desupport notice for 7.1.  > B >This needs to repeated as I can't believe the amount of FUD going >around. >   E As I said in my initial response people should go to free.grisoft.com F but grisoft didn't do themselves any favours by making it obscure thatD they were continuing to do a free version.  I've had numerous peopleC asking me what was happening and there are many postings on the net  littered with confusion.         --   AnthonyL   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:12:28 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>) Subject: Suggestion for bound volume sets - Message-ID: <45861517.D4AF2D09@vaxination.ca>    $TODAY = F$TIME()  $!  $SET TIME="01-JAN-1979 07:33:25" $TYPE SYS$INPUT   F To whoever will end up writing the code for the bound volume sets in a couple of years:  C When someone is creating a new copy (version) of a file, preference H should be made to store that new version on a different physical disk soA that no two consecutive versions of a file are stored on the same  physical disk.     $! $SET TIME="''TODAY'" $!      D I take it that with current storage susbsystems, VMS has very littleD control over where the files are phsysically stored ?   With currentE disk technology, are there still any uses for the moral equivalent of = bound volume sets ? Are stripe volume sets still being used ?    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2006 22:08:11 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>- Subject: Re: Suggestion for bound volume sets B Message-ID: <1166422091.668620.281020@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>  E > When someone is creating a new copy (version) of a file, preference J > should be made to store that new version on a different physical disk soS > that no two consecutive versions of a file are stored on the same  physical disk.   " Surely you yest? I guess not. :-(.  4 New files are created on the volume with most space.@ This tends to balance the IO in a mixed, concurrent, usage case. This helps most applications.   F > I take it that with current storage susbsystems, VMS has very little7 > control over where the files are phsysically stored ?   G VMS picks the LBNs. The Storage system mayhave a predictable mapping of C those to disks (simple raid)  or might not  (EVA allocates on first # usage, not at VMS allocation time).   i > With current  disk technology, are there still any uses for the moral equivalent of bound volume sets ?   + You can still make bound volumes of 'LUNs'.  Why?C - because the cluster size gets too big on a single volume. A bound G volume has an allocation bitmap, and indexf.sys per volume. So for many E (more than a million) little files, to be stored transparently on one G device, volume sets is a viable solution. But I would encourage looking ? at searchlists accross seperately mounted disks for a nearly as > transparent method, with more manageability but less automatic
 balancing.C - Conceivably you could carve the data area for an RMS indexed file B using RAID-1 (or 0+1) for high availability whilest using a RAID-0C logical drive in the same volume set for all the indexes. One would ; have to be pretty desperate to do this, but it can be done. D - Along the same lines, you can make a bound volume of a 'real' diskD and a Solid State Disk(ramsan for example) and tell RMS exactly whatB data to put where within a single indexed file accross the volume.  + > Are stripe volume sets still being used ?   C Absolutely, both in hardware, behind the controller and in software  accross adapters.    Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 10:54:18 -0800 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>5 Subject: Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point) ) Message-ID: <op.tkpv4se1tte90l@hyrrokkin>   8 On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 07:07:48 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert   <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:    > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >> Stephen Hoffman wrote:  >>H >>>   There is the batch-restart mechanism available within the existingI >>> queue manager, though that would require modifications to the command  >>> procedure. >> > <snip> >>K >>>   While you're suggesting this enhancement to HP (or the implementation F >>> of full checkpoint-restart), also consider adding a UPS (as sagely >>> suggested by Mr Dachtera),K >>   I would actually require multiple UPSs. My machines are not all on the I >> same circuit. And in the case of a batch job taking hours to complete, + >> the UPS wouldn't have made a difference.  >> > E > Best practice is to have gasoline or diesel powered generators of   L > adequate capacity to back up the UPS.  It's practically a requirement if  F > you need/want to be up 24x7x365.  The generators needs a fuel tank  L > and/or auxiliary supply sufficient to outlast the longest possible power  K > outrage.  A three day supply should at least give you time to find more   I > fuel except in the most extreme circumstances.  You need at least two   K > such generators so that one can be shut down for refueling, oil changes   L > and other necessary maintenance.  The generators need to be exercised at  A > least monthly to ensure that they will be operable when needed.  >   A lot of them run on natural gas     --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:11:45 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>5 Subject: Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point) - Message-ID: <4585CEB0.88B5AEE8@vaxination.ca>    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: C > Best practice is to have gasoline or diesel powered generators of J > adequate capacity to back up the UPS.  It's practically a requirement ifD > you need/want to be up 24x7x365.  The generators needs a fuel tankJ > and/or auxiliary supply sufficient to outlast the longest possible powerI > outrage.  A three day supply should at least give you time to find more G > fuel except in the most extreme circumstances.  You need at least two I > such generators so that one can be shut down for refueling, oil changes " > and other necessary maintenance.    G Well, I might as well get some jet fuel turbine generators then.  Heck, G I might be able to justify this because they could also be used to blow F leaves off the property in the fall by attaching flexible ducts to theG turbine outlets :-) Heck, with jet engines, I might even be able to use K them to clear the snow off the driveway without needing to use a shovel :-)   B Point is that many small businesses have other priorities in their, budgets than to install generators and IPSs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:01:30 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point) J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-64FA7B.03013018122006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  - In article <4585CEB0.88B5AEE8@vaxination.ca>, 0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:   > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: E > > Best practice is to have gasoline or diesel powered generators of L > > adequate capacity to back up the UPS.  It's practically a requirement ifF > > you need/want to be up 24x7x365.  The generators needs a fuel tankL > > and/or auxiliary supply sufficient to outlast the longest possible powerK > > outrage.  A three day supply should at least give you time to find more I > > fuel except in the most extreme circumstances.  You need at least two K > > such generators so that one can be shut down for refueling, oil changes $ > > and other necessary maintenance. >  > I > Well, I might as well get some jet fuel turbine generators then.  Heck, I > I might be able to justify this because they could also be used to blow H > leaves off the property in the fall by attaching flexible ducts to theI > turbine outlets :-) Heck, with jet engines, I might even be able to use M > them to clear the snow off the driveway without needing to use a shovel :-)  > D > Point is that many small businesses have other priorities in their. > budgets than to install generators and IPSs.  I As a cyclist you also have the option of fixing a dynamo to a bike. This  F approach is particularly suited to the harsh winters in Canada, as it E enables you to keep fit at the time of year when power cuts are more   likely.    ;-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:47:49 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>5 Subject: Re: Suggestion for F$SEARCH (starting point) - Message-ID: <45860F52.2F5A74C2@vaxination.ca>    Paul Sture wrote: J > As a cyclist you also have the option of fixing a dynamo to a bike. ThisG > approach is particularly suited to the harsh winters in Canada, as it F > enables you to keep fit at the time of year when power cuts are more	 > likely.   H Yeah, but the big issue is is you also need the natural ability to sense? an oncoming power failure and quickly get on the bike and start B pedalling before the power fails... OR bike 7/24, and do your work on/from the training bike ... C (Note: there are issues with static electricity buildup of the bike K tires against the rollers which can fry a keyboard (been there, done that).   ? The problem is that during a power failure, you can't go to the C batchroom or sneak into the kitchen to get a snack unless you first E shutdown the cluster. (Unless VMS engineers add some automated system G service that will initiate a system shutdown when VMS notices a drop in  bicycle cadence...)       F And in order to output a significant amount of power for any length ofE time, you need to carbo load. And if you are constantly carbo-loading G everyday to be ready for a power failure, then you end up gaining a LOT - of weight during winter unless you bike 7/24.     E What I would be more interested in a power sequencer that would bring D machines back up in a pre-determined order with the right amou7nt ofC time in between each power-up command. This not only prevents power D overload when all machines are powered back on at the same time, butD also allows for the right node to assert certain services/IPs first.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:01:57 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic - Message-ID: <4585CC65.9D82F476@vaxination.ca>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  C >    the audience said "you should trumpet this to the world".  The D >    response was "we cannot, because it names particular customers.E >    These customers have not given us permission to use their name."       D Then the VMS sales force should be instructed to negotiate this withH customers so that it would provide the VMS group with marketing materialF they could trumpet in news releases. HP does it its other products andC often sends out press releases indicating contract wins. Wht is VMS  incapable of doing so ?   E And if VMS has only one customer (military), it might explain the non G publicity, but it is also very bad if VMS is down to a single customer.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Dec 2006 00:43:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic 0 Message-ID: <4um6hiF18cjq5U1@mid.individual.net>  / In article <em4jbc$obc$00$1@news.t-online.com>, + 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:  > JF Mezei schrieb:  >  >>  H >> And if VMS has only one customer (military), it might explain the nonJ >> publicity, but it is also very bad if VMS is down to a single customer. >  > huh ? G > It's publicly known that the US military is one of the remaining VMS   > customers, > so where's the logic ?  E Publicly known where?  The only use I have seen by the military in my C searches is in military hospitals which is hardly a military unique 
 application.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:56:13 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic - Message-ID: <4585E723.2FBF5DDD@vaxination.ca>    Michael Kraemer wrote:F > It's publicly known that the US military is one of the remaining VMS > customers, > so where's the logic ?    G Publicly known != used in publicity. It simply means that the community G who tries to follow what is really going on with VMS has heard that the & military hasn't gotten rid of VMS yet.    D Why "hasn't gotten rid of VMS yet" ? Because it isn't publicly knownE whether the military has plans to continue to develop/build on VMS or @ whether it will just keep the current VMS systems until they are replaced with something else.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:32:17 -0600 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic 0 Message-ID: <45860BC1.7EAC9E07@spam.comcast.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > 6 > On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:14:35 -0800, David J Dachtera% > <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote:  >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >>G > >> In article <iaWgh.12409$Qa6.491@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, ChrisQuayle " > >> <nospam@devnul.co.uk> writes: > >> > Rob Brooks wrote:1 > >> >> ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> writes:  > >> >>  > >> >>>Main, Kerry wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>K > >> >>>>The big differentiator for the initial phase for evaluators is not  > >> theF > >> >>>>OS platform as that is way down on their list, but rather the
 > >> business D > >> >>>>plan, the applications proposed, the organizaqtion, program > >> management,  > >> >>>>security processes etc. > >> >>  > >> >>  > >> >>>Some news F > >> >>>feature recently showed hp monitors, so I guess hp hardware is > >> involved,J > >> >>>at least on the desktop, but why are hp not pursuing this business0 > >> >>>agressively with vms for the back end ?. > >> >>  > >> >> > > >> >> What evidence do you have to support your supposition? > >> >>  > >> >? > >> > Rob - are you asking me and if so, what supposition ?...  > >>J > >> It is obvious from the wording you quoted that the supposition is theM > >> notion that HP is "not pursuing this business agressively (sic) with VMS  > >> for the back end".  > > L > > Um, Larry? Y'know how folks here are constantly griping about VMS's lack > > of: > > visibility? ...not to mention its current predicament? > > ! > > Are you on track with us now?  > > M > > Google this group for this thread, and the key words "stealth marketing".  > > K > > Also, remember that I still have a standing offer of $1,000 cash reward  > > for the B > > first verifiable (documented) sighting of an OpenVMS ad in the > > mainstream trade) > > media. To date, it remains unclaimed.  > D > It makes no business to advertise VMS as is.  It needs a makeover,
 > rebranding, L > in a similar manner to IBM's tranformation of MVS -> z/os, but alas, these1 > skills are sadly lacking in the VMS organigram.   ' "organigram"? That's a new one on me...   O Well, VMS's biggest problem right now is the lack of a hardware platform that's & viable in the Enterprise market place.  A THAT is the horse that needs to be put back in front of the cart.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:40:29 -0600 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic 0 Message-ID: <45860DAD.E779A9A9@spam.comcast.net>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.no@spam.comcast.net]# > > Sent: December 16, 2006 7:23 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > > Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic  > >  >  > [snip ...] >  > > ; > > ...and since when is it my management responsibility to  > > manage a solution ? > > provider? My management's responsibility is to manage *OUR*  > > IT operation, not @ > > anyone else's, and certainly not that of any of our vendors! > > Vendors who needI > > that level of management usually find their place in the bankruptcy / # > > prosecution lines very quickly.  > >  >  > [snip ...] > G > Wow, I am shocked .. Regardless of the OS/HW platform (Windows, z/OS, B > UNIX, Linux, OpenVMS, NetWare), of course it is your managementsC > responsibilty to manage their vendors and that includes both your # > platform and application vendors.  > H > You are the Customer. When it hits your company big time in the pocketI > book, who answers to the shareholders - your App ISV's or your platform  > vendor or your management?  N The point is that just as the final responsibility for the safe conduct of anyP flight rests solely with the pilot in command, so too the reuslts of managemen'sD decisions are eh sole responsoboility of management, not any vendor.  K When management abandons their responsibilities to the point where they are O managing people not directly employed by them, guess what? We get the situation  we have now.  E > All App *and* HW vendors on all platforms worry big time about Cust F > acceptance have when they change strategies. They are always worriedF > about what the Customer views are, so yes, your management does have > influence.   Wonderful news!!  ? So, when the do the ports of OpenVMS to Power and x86-64 go GA?    Next week? ...week after?   P Get serious. If HP management - not to mention Cerner or anyone else - gaves twoM shits what the customers think, would we be having this discussion right now?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Dec 2006 03:44:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic 0 Message-ID: <4umh50F18u5raU1@mid.individual.net>  - In article <4585E723.2FBF5DDD@vaxination.ca>, 1 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:  > Michael Kraemer wrote:G >> It's publicly known that the US military is one of the remaining VMS 
 >> customers,  >> so where's the logic ?  >  > I > Publicly known != used in publicity. It simply means that the community I > who tries to follow what is really going on with VMS has heard that the ( > military hasn't gotten rid of VMS yet.  D I tried.  And I am on the inside.  I was unable to find anyone of myE peers who had used or even seen a VMS system anywhere in DA in a very C long time.  Of course, I have also heard that Santa Claus is coming 5 next week but I don;t expect I could find him either.    >  > F > Why "hasn't gotten rid of VMS yet" ? Because it isn't publicly knownG > whether the military has plans to continue to develop/build on VMS or B > whether it will just keep the current VMS systems until they are > replaced with something else.   I How can the military have any plans to "continue to develop/build on VMS" E when it doesn't even get a mention in the schooling of the people who F have to do the developing/building.  Linux and Windows are all Army ITJ people from the lowest ranking worker bees to the highest ranking managers get exposed to.   G I am begining to think this "use of VMS by the military" is pretty much  the same as the "VMS Constant".    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:35:05 -0600 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic 0 Message-ID: <45860C69.F9759583@spam.comcast.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > c > In article <qS9hh.12787$Qa6.3676@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> writes:  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > O > >>>>>feature recently showed hp monitors, so I guess hp hardware is involved, I > >>>>>at least on the desktop, but why are hp not pursuing this business / > >>>>>agressively with vms for the back end ?.  > >>>> > >>>>< > >>>>What evidence do you have to support your supposition? > >>>> > >>> = > >>>Rob - are you asking me and if so, what supposition ?...  > >> > >>J > >> It is obvious from the wording you quoted that the supposition is theM > >> notion that HP is "not pursuing this business agressively (sic) with VMS  > >> for the back end".  > > L > > Well, are they ?. If so, there's no sign of it in the trade press, or hpG > > websites. One would think that if they had won a large slice of the 9 > > business, they would be telling everybody about it...  > F > 1. "Pursuing this business aggressively" which was advocated earlierG >    is different from "winning this business" and HP does not have any E >    direct control over the latter.  The notion that if VMS does not G >    win HP did not try may follow the theme of some in this newsgroup, H >    but it is certainly not true.  If it were true, then HP did not try= >    in _any_ of the competitions where they did not prevail.  > E > 2. With representatives of other ISV's I attended a one day meeting F >    with HP in Nashua New Hampshire last week with material presentedJ >    on a non-disclosure basis.  Most of the material was not particularlyE >    relevant to my business, but at one session serveral of those in C >    the audience said "you should trumpet this to the world".  The D >    response was "we cannot, because it names particular customers.E >    These customers have not given us permission to use their name." G >    So the notion that trade press and HP websites will fully describe ( >    any VMS sales successes is fatuous.  " Then, let me say this (yet) again:  8 LEAVE THE NAMES OUT!!!! "Anonymize" as much as possible!  @ Am I the *ONLY* person in the entire world who understands that?  5 Why is that so difficult for anyone to understand??!!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:47:34 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: The Hole in Cerner's Logic : Message-ID: <AfydnQ3zsZLMkhvYnZ2dnUVZ_rylnZ2d@comcast.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:    > Tom Linden wrote:  > 6 >>On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:14:35 -0800, David J Dachtera% >><djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote:  >> >> >>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >>> F >>>>In article <iaWgh.12409$Qa6.491@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, ChrisQuayle! >>>><nospam@devnul.co.uk> writes:  >>>> >>>>>Rob Brooks wrote: >>>>> / >>>>>>ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> writes:  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Main, Kerry wrote:  >>>>>>>  <snip> > Q > Well, VMS's biggest problem right now is the lack of a hardware platform that's ( > viable in the Enterprise market place.  D No, VMS's biggest problem right now is that HP does not consider it E worth marketing or supporting!  They appear to be doing the absolute   minimum that they have to do.   E If the Alpha were somehow revived, would the world flock to VMS?  No!   I If VMS were ported to one of the 64 Bit AMD chips, would the world flock   to it?  No!   = If VMS were free, would the world flock to it?  Probably not.   G Certainly VMS is a very good O/S but it's by no means the only one and  B the competition has been actively marketing their solutions since I Digital pronounced VMS a "Niche O/S" back in 1995.  Other O/S's have the  I applications.  VMS has lost a lot of applications and very few companies  G see any point in writing for a platform that has not been marketed for  
 eleven years!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:41:33 GMT 0 From: "mayayana" <mayaXXyana1a@mindXXspring.com>- Subject: Re: Windows Media Player 11 Released @ Message-ID: <xIjhh.508$w91.339@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>  G > Not to mention that what you would actually receive would probably be 9 > a Trojan Horse program of some sort rather than WMP 11.  > )    WMP *is* a trojan horse. For those who 0 don't want spyware tracking their music playing, there's Media Player Classic.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.694 ************************                                                                                                                                          arev80/passwordW= >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/password.u
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,54) <<< CWD /freewarev80/pbm_tex< >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/pbm_tex.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,55) <<< CWD /freewarev80/pc_dcl ; >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/pc_dcl./
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.I >>> 226 Transfer completed.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,56) <<< CWD /freewarev80/pcal 9 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/pcal.k
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,57) <<< CWD /freewarev80/pdump: >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/pdump.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.t
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,58)! <<< CWD /freewarev80/perf_meter)? >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/perf_meter./
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,59) <<< CWD /freewarev80/perl-tk< >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/perl-tk.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.> >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,60) <<< CWD /freewarev80/perlW9 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/perl.s
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,61)  <<< CWD /freewarev80/permanent> >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/permanent.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.I >>> 226 Transfer completed.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,62) <<< CWD /freewarev80/pf_sda; >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/pf_sda./
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed. 
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,12,63)! <<< CWD /freewarev80/pf_sda/src ? >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev80/pf_sda/src.r
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.> >>> 226 Tr