1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 29 Dec 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 717       Contents:& Re: DECterm special escape sequences ?& Re: DECterm special escape sequences ?$ Re: How to: Identify the interfaces?, Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ?, Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ?, Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ?, Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ?+ Re: Renaming a root from [SYS0] to [SYS1] ? + Re: Renaming a root from [SYS0] to [SYS1] ?  Re: vmware VMS ISO ?# Re: Whatever happened to Christmas?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:28:10 -0000 / From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> / Subject: Re: DECterm special escape sequences ? 0 Message-ID: <12pa5vajgvhvj59@corp.supernews.com>  4 Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> wrote:( > On 2006-12-28 06:20, "JF Mezei" wrote:   >> [...] >>  K >> I tried google, and there are so many sites that list one or two espape  O >> sequence that it is nearly impossible to find out whether what I am looking   >> for exists or not.   9 > There are quite a lot of escape sequences documented in 6 > <http://bjh21.me.uk/all-escapes/all-escapes.txt> ...  D ...unfortunately, they're just heaped together in one place, withoutC a cross-reference (which would show that they're from several types  of terminals).  @ For a clue regarding the depth of this file, note the first line  < 	# $Id: all-escapes.txt,v 1.32 2005/09/14 12:00:06 ben Exp $  B and the 1999's pervading the text.  It's basically a cut/paste jobB from 1999 with a handful of changes past that point.  Compare with  3 	ftp://invisible-island.net/ncurses/terminfo.src.gz    or any of the references cited.    --   Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net  ftp://invisible-island.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:24:52 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) / Subject: Re: DECterm special escape sequences ? Z Message-ID: <rdeininger-2912061125260001@dialup-4.233.128.21.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>  A In article <57e37$45949f05$cef8887a$22822@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:   >Bob Harris wrote: >>W <http://h30097.www3.hp.com/docs/base_doc/DOCUMENTATION/V51B_HTML/MAN/MAN5/0201____.HTM>  >>  4 >> Is this the escape sequence you were looking for? >>   >>   Esc [ p1 ; p2 ; p3 t % >>   1   Restore (de-iconify) window. # >>   2   Minimize (iconify) window.  >  > E >Many thanks. Unfortunatly, this escape sequence does not work in my  I >parralel universe.  Esc [ 2 t makes the window 2 lines long.  Esc [ 1 t  9 >makes it 1 line long. Esc [ 51 t makes it 51 lines long.  > L >Esc[3;100;100t  makes it 3 lines long. (instead of moving window to pixels  >100, 100).  > J >I guess there is nobody left in VMS engineering who knows even where the I >code for DECTERM is stored (maybe it is on some disk in India already ?)   C 1. Please stop whining.  You've already done enough whining to last  several lifetimes.  ? You haven't received, free of charge, immediate answers to your I questions.  So naturally it becomes an opportunity to bash the very group C of people most likely to be able to help you.  Clever, very clever.   I 2.  The folks working on DECwindows are part of VMS Engineering.  Most of A them happen to be in India.  They know exactly where the code is.   I Do you expect them to drop their real work to provide an immediate answer I about an undocumented non-feature to a bigoted, ill-mannered, non-paying, D non-customer?   Perhaps you really do live in an alternate universe.  J 3.  The DECwindows code and build environment are mostly separate from VMSC proper.  That's always been the case.  That means most of those you B consider "real" VMS engineers couldn't easily seek answers to yourD questions.  If they felt like helping you.  Perhpas some of them do.    K >Considering that Digital is *THE* standard for VT100, I would have though  J >that they would have made public ALL the escape sequences to ensure that  >the VT100 protocol lives on.   H VT100 and the associated ANSI standard are very well documented and easy to find in public locations.  G What you seek isn't VT100 stuff.  DECterm is based on the VT300 series, G IIRC.  But DECterm has its own extensions, which may not be part of any  general standard.   A I don't even know if DECterm has escape sequences for this stuff.   H >But when you consider that even within Digital the secrets resulted in M >OSF/DEC-UNIX/Tru64 using different escape sequences than for VMS, it says a   >lot about the company.    Blah, blah, blah.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2006 08:42:02 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> - Subject: Re: How to: Identify the interfaces? B Message-ID: <1167410522.095644.113330@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>  	 Z. wrote: J > I have 2 DS-20s(?) in a 7.3-2 VMS cluster. Each server has the following > lan jacks: >  >    #A (on the mobo?) >    #B (on the mobo?) >    A PCI card with a lan jack  > 2 > #B is being used for the CI (as best I can tell) > H > I want to configure the network adapter that's in the PCI slot. I want > to configure it for TCPIP. > I >  From within TCPIP$CONFIG, what interface is that?  Is it WE0, WE1, IE0 	 > or IE1?   G The DS20 does not have any network adapters built into the motherboard. C  If you have both WE and IE devices then you have several different G cards installed.  The WE devices are either DE450 or (more likely given G the DS20 time frame) DE50x cards.  The DE500 came in several versions - E DE500 with 1 port, DE502 with 2 ports and DE504 with 4 ports.  The IE F devices are DE60x (Intel Enet chip) and came in 1 and 2 port versions.  G You might have a DS10, which has two DE500 type network ports and 3(4?) C PCI slots in a desktop type case.  A DS10L also has 2 DE500 network F ports, but is a 1U rackmount with only one PCI slot.  the DS20 is big.C About 18 inches high, 14 inches wide and 24 inches deep.  You can't G miss it.  A DS20e , on the other hand, is a 5U rackmount case (was also C available in pedestal version).  I don't know if it had motherboard + mounted network jacks.  I don't believe so.   B Figuring out which physical port is which TCPIP device is somewhatD tricky and arbitrary depending on which system you actually have andF which cards you have.  At the SRM console a "Show Config" can help but: VMS does not always assign device letters the same as SRM.  1 Hope this at least gives a clue to what you have.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:20:19 GMT ' From: ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> 5 Subject: Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ? 5 Message-ID: <Tmalh.1058$CR3.656@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>    healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  M > Since IRIX is basically a dead platform now, Solaris is my Unix platform of M > choice.  Though these days I mainly use it to exercise scavanged HD's prior & > to installing them on my VMS server.  E Ah yes, sun format, still about the best hd excerciser i've seen and  F little changed since the days of Sun 3's. Recently picked up an A5100 G and a load of 73 Gbyte fc drives to put in it. It was quite impressive  F having 14 instances of format running in terminal windows at once and C all the drive leds flickering. Reminded me of *real* computers :-).   H Long term, Solaris does indeed look like the platform of choice. One of C last of the commercial strength unices to survive and seems to get    better with every new release...   Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2006 09:17:12 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com 5 Subject: Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ? C Message-ID: <1167412632.315279.226340@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    ChrisQuayle wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  > > L > > Bloat totally aside, Linux is just too inefficient.  One of the problemsL > > with NIH Syndrome is they tend to ignore decades of research by the CSRGL > > and its follow-ons and just do things badly.  Frequently making the same4 > > mistakes others discovered and avoided long ago. > H > Well, that's the human nature rebellious instinct that says "we can doH > it better than you can" :-). Sometimes a great result, but as you say,B > it helps to start with some idea of what works and what doesn't.  ? Okay, maybe Linux isn't done as well as you think, Bill.  Maybe C performance could be a little better, and with a little less bloat. C However, have you compared Linux with Windows on the same hardware? G Linux is faster.  And performance for one MS app I do have?  There is a F definite performance degradation for the same installation kit runningA on Windows 2000 to Windows XP - with Windows XP running on faster G hardware with more memory!  The Linux version beats them both on lesser & hardware.  And now here comes Vista...  E So I understand that you don't like Linux, but given the tasks I need D to perform and the tools available to perform them - OpenVMS runs myG server tasks (like Apache, MySQL, MX Mail, etc), and Linux provides the G desktop experience (Mail client, image manipulation, web browsing, code C development, documentation, etc).  And my code ports to Windows and G OpenVMS, too - because I use standard and available libraries to insure  that.   A So maybe Linux is a pair of pliers when you would prefer a finely F crafted Snapon box wrench.  But I have Linux, and it does work.  ThereD isn't the right size of Snapon box wrench available, and the Windows> version is, well, let's just say it's not a Craftsman, either.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Dec 2006 17:53:19 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)5 Subject: Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ? 0 Message-ID: <4vl30fF1cbsaoU1@mid.individual.net>  7 In article <Wv9lh.17222$v4.13148@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>, * 	ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  >>  K >> Bloat totally aside, Linux is just too inefficient.  One of the problems K >> with NIH Syndrome is they tend to ignore decades of research by the CSRG K >> and its follow-ons and just do things badly.  Frequently making the same 3 >> mistakes others discovered and avoided long ago.  > I > Well, that's the human nature rebellious instinct that says "we can do  I > it better than you can" :-). Sometimes a great result, but as you say,  B > it helps to start with some idea of what works and what doesn't.  G I guess I don't see how making the same mistakes over again is going to G result in a better product. And with Linux as the example, it obviously  doesn't.   >  >>  J >> Have you tried FreeBSD on your Alpha?  I would be interested in hearingJ >> what you thought and, especially, how it compares to Tru64.  I alsreadyJ >> know how it compares to Linux as I have run both on Alphas in the past. > H > Not as yet - hadn't really thought much about Freebsd yet, though the H > Alpha support seemed little different to that of NetBsd/Alpha or even C > Linux/Alpha last time I looked. There seems to be a lot of cross  K > fertilisation between the 3 now, which might explain your comments about  D > creeping bloat, but I guess it makes sense to share code to avoid  > duplication of effort.    E There is some, but the big difference is that while the {Net|Open}BSD G crew try to make an OS that runs on everything the FreeBSD crew decided E early on to concentrate on the most likely targets and have doen some  optimization in that direction.   J >                         Did play with some of the very early (v1.0'ish) F > Netbsd vax releases a few years ago. What can be said ? - it works,   J "Works" is a matter of opinion.  It won't use modern hardware like DSSI orH CI so the choice of disks is pretty slim (SCSI being the best bet if youI can find one and can afford it).  It needs lots of memory.  More than you J will find on most smaller VAXen, like 3100's or the MicroVAX.  Last time II tried a kernel rebuild on one of my old MicroVAX-II's here I finally gave H up and killed it after more than 48 hours.  I love my VAXen, but BSD has grown beyond usability on one.  J >                                                                     but E > the lack of framebuffer support for X limited its use at the time.    G That too.  :-)  Even the Linux guys gave up on the VAX long before they  had anything viable.  H >                                                                    As K > for Linux, the poor perfomance of Linux/Alpha may be due to lack of work  K > to properly port the code to make full use of Alpha features, or even to  K > be 64 bit aware. One suspects that much of the Linux/Intel code has just  N > been recompiled for the Alpha port and who knows how good the compliers are.  G Well, try runing some benchmarks on Linux and FreeBSD on the same 32bit J hardware.  It is not specificly 64bit code that is inefficient.  But then,I if they started with garbage, moving to 64bits wasn't likely to magically  make things better.    > G > The next step is to try Solaris on Intel and see how good that is at  J > dual P3/500 level. My guess is that it will rock solid and if so, there 7 > will little reason to run Linux at all in the future.   E Yeah, it is.  But it is rapidly morphing in such a way that I suspect A before very long you will need special skills to maintain Solaris D systems and software incompatabilities will begin to creep in again.A I honestly think they should have stayed with SunOS and just kept E modernizing it but the marketing hyoe said that SYSV was the wave of   future.  Kind of like Itanium.   > I > So how does Freebsd compare with Linux, on Alpha, performance wise ?...   I I haven't run Linux on an Alpha in a really long time.  FreeBSD performed I much better the las ttime I did and I have seen nothing in the Linux camp H to make me think this has changed in any way other than the possibility $ that FreeBSD has gotten even better.  J I have to keep up with Linux because DA has settled on it after abandoningG Solaris.  Personally, I can't for the life of me imagine why they chose E Linux over FreeBSD except possibly because of all the hype surounding 9 Linux and the total silence surrounding any of the BSD's.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 29 Dec 2006 18:02:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)5 Subject: Re: Open sourced VMS as a business concept ? 0 Message-ID: <4vl3hdF1cbsaoU2@mid.individual.net>  C In article <1167412632.315279.226340@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,  	davidc@montagar.com writes: > ChrisQuayle wrote: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >> >> >M >> > Bloat totally aside, Linux is just too inefficient.  One of the problems M >> > with NIH Syndrome is they tend to ignore decades of research by the CSRG M >> > and its follow-ons and just do things badly.  Frequently making the same 5 >> > mistakes others discovered and avoided long ago.  >>I >> Well, that's the human nature rebellious instinct that says "we can do I >> it better than you can" :-). Sometimes a great result, but as you say, C >> it helps to start with some idea of what works and what doesn't.  > A > Okay, maybe Linux isn't done as well as you think, Bill.  Maybe E > performance could be a little better, and with a little less bloat. E > However, have you compared Linux with Windows on the same hardware?    Who cares about Windows?   > Linux is faster.     And FreeBSD is faster still.  I >                   And performance for one MS app I do have?  There is a H > definite performance degradation for the same installation kit runningC > on Windows 2000 to Windows XP - with Windows XP running on faster I > hardware with more memory!  The Linux version beats them both on lesser ( > hardware.  And now here comes Vista...  J Like I said, who cares about Windows?  Let's stick with apples and apples.G I was comparing Unix and a really bad Unix clone.  Oh yeah, and we were G talking about running on an Alpha. You got Xp for the Alpha?  Hoe about  Vista?  I didn't think so.   > G > So I understand that you don't like Linux, but given the tasks I need F > to perform and the tools available to perform them - OpenVMS runs myI > server tasks (like Apache, MySQL, MX Mail, etc), and Linux provides the I > desktop experience (Mail client, image manipulation, web browsing, code % > development, documentation, etc).     E And all the desktp apps that run on Linux run on FreeBSD, better.  At H least on BSD a user (not root) can't bring down teh whole GUI by runningI the C compiler. (Yes, I have done it a number of time recently and finaly B had to give up trying to build the application on Linux entirely.)  E >                                    And my code ports to Windows and I > OpenVMS, too - because I use standard and available libraries to insure  > that.   E Which has waht to do with the comparison between Linux and FreeBSD on L an Alpha?  If, as you say, your code uses "standard and available libraries"I it would obviously run on FreeBSD as well. Most likely, depending on what  they actually do, better.    > C > So maybe Linux is a pair of pliers when you would prefer a finely H > crafted Snapon box wrench.  But I have Linux, and it does work.  ThereF > isn't the right size of Snapon box wrench available, and the Windows@ > version is, well, let's just say it's not a Craftsman, either.  D I really don't understand what Windows had to do witht he discussion that was taking place.  I A better comparison would be FreeBSD = wrench vs. Linux = a boxing glove.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2006 02:57:30 -0800 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk4 Subject: Re: Renaming a root from [SYS0] to [SYS1] ?C Message-ID: <1167389850.200714.105380@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   D I'm not entirely sure that's always true - I *accidentally* tried toD boot two AlphaServer 4100s off the same root on a common system diskC (on a shared SCSI bus, if that matters) and the second node to boot D just sat there having loaded in the kernel and drivers and said that1 this root belongs to someone else in the cluster.   G I've never even thought of trying it again, mainly because I don't have 
 a death wish!    Steve    William Webb wrote:  <trim> > G > And one of the surest ways to crash a cluster is to boot a system off F > of a root that the cluster thinks belongs to another cluster member. > D > Don't believe me?  Give it a try.  Report back with your findings. >  <trim>   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:57:50 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 4 Subject: Re: Renaming a root from [SYS0] to [SYS1] ?( Message-ID: <en33ce$pn5$1@pcls4.std.com>  0 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:  Q >> I am at a complete loss as far as understanding why you would want to do this.   5 >Alpha 1 is a workstation. Right now it is at [SYS0].   / >Alpha 2 is to be my server. The disk is blank.   K >I want to configure Alpha 1 to support a MOP boot of Alpha 2, after which  K >Alpha 2 can BACKUP/IMAGE  ALPHA1's system disk to its own local disk, and  < >then reboot from its own disk with a pre-configured system.  H >And I want the server to be on SYS0 and the workstation to be on SYS1. M >Hence my need to rename the workstation from SYS0 to SYS1 before creating a  1 >new [SYS0] root that will be used by the server.   @ You will have two system disks, right?  Just leave both at SYS0.F Modify the parameters (SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID at the bare minimum) inH the new disk's root before booting from it.  Do so using both SYSGEN and MODPARAMS.DAT.  I If you want, create a new root on the old disk, either as [sys1] and copy F all the old parameters from [sys0] to [sys1], or as [sys2], boot from I [sys2], rename sys0.dir to sys1.dir, then boot from [sys1] and delete the 
 sys2 root.  G >> Switching roots without doing a cluster shutdown isn't something I'd 8 >> do on a production system.   Let me leave it at that.  ) >I have not so far seen any show stopper.   D When running, many things in memory will be referencing the files inF [sys0] while things using the new definitions will reference things inG [sys1].  If [sys0] no longer exists, bang.  You MAY be able to get away @ with redefining SYS$SYSROOT, rename sys0 to sys1 and IMMEDIATELYE rebooting, or perhaps you'll have to do the rename, pressing the HALT  button and typing >>> BOOT ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:12:28 +0100 # From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de>  Subject: Re: vmware VMS ISO ? 5 Message-ID: <459504ad$0$26638$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl>   - "Nicopil@mi" <---@---.com> schreef in bericht , news:4594386e$0$287$426a74cc@news.free.fr...I > Hi, do you know where i could find a vmware image of an Open VMS system  > (even an hobbyst version) ?  >   > My computer runs on Windows XP >  >  > thks > bye  > Nico >  > B Umm, could you be a bit more specific on what you're trying to do?E It is quite possible to upload/download an (ISO) image of a (VAX/)VMS H distribution kit. I've done that before, provided the other person had a Montagar license of course. L The way I read your post it seems as if you want to run VMS and WindowsXP onJ top of VMware on your computer. That, as the other poster mentioned, won't work.  Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2006 00:14:05 -0800+ From: "Dave Gullen" <dave.gullen@gap.co.uk> , Subject: Re: Whatever happened to Christmas?@ Message-ID: <1167380045.031226.5820@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dr. Dweeb wrote:+ > > Rammadan, and it has passed last month.  > C > Halloween (festivity for Wicken (witches)) was at end of October.   B Yule (winter solstice) is the pagan/celtic festival of the season,D though Samhain (Halloween) is considered more important, and is also	 New Year.  And happy Christmas too.$ Peace on earth, goodwill to all men.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.717 ************************