0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Jan 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 29      Contents:( Re: attention Guy Peleg: DCL suggestions Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP?& Re: Farewell to a good reliable friend& Re: Farewell to a good reliable friend& Re: Farewell to a good reliable friend2 Re: how to permanently reject this kind of address2 Re: how to permanently reject this kind of address* Q-Bus serpentine on 4000 series machines ?. Re: Q-Bus serpentine on 4000 series machines ? Re: TT_BRDCST?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2006 15:39:47 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: attention Guy Peleg: DCL suggestions 3 Message-ID: <xaMkO67+Ffox@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <dqartc$b8l$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: D > While you're at it, here are two enhancements I would like to see. > J > First, in HELP Lexicals, it would be nice to have a HELP entry for each  > argument.   D I think that one belongs to the documentation group, likely on email5 via username OPENVMSDOC in the main corporate domain.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:43:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? , Message-ID: <43C96272.F168429F@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 8 > Don't I need VPM to run MONITOR CLUSTER without TCPIP?  B Answer yes for all the defaults. It has been a long time since DECL tightened up the defaults. You can disable the objects if you want later on.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:42:22 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? , Message-ID: <43C96229.F1267C33@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: + > It shows up in TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE/FULL:  >  > TCPIP> sh interf/full ze0  >  Interface: ZE0 O >    IP_Addr: 192.168.1.120     NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST: 192.168.1.255 
 >  ClusterO >     C_Addr: 192.168.1.101   C_NETWRK: 255.255.255.0   C_BRDCST: 192.168.1.255 G >                        Ethernet_Addr: 08-00-2B-92-26-9D    MTU:  1500     F But it doesn't show up in the permanent database (show conf int/full).  F At best, the configuration will point to the ethernet device name. (or= have a way to infer its device name from the interface name).   F You can do a test without rebooting: shustdown TCPIP services and makeH sure all BG devices are gone. Start DECNET, then restart TCPIP services.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:06:04 +0000 (UTC) - From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) ' Subject: Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? . Message-ID: <dqbskc$a9v$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes in article <dqbesr$d79$1@online.de> dated Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:11:39 +0000 (UTC):* >It shows up in TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE/FULL:  J Oh, OK.  Mine too, but I never keyed it in.  And I am running Decnet phase% IV, so the modified address shows up.    >Maybe I have ; >to stop TCPIP, get DECnet running, then get TCPIP running.   I That's what you have to do.  If you attempt to start Decnet phase IV with I TCPIP running, it will bomb when it tries to modify the hardware address.   F >Which brings up the question: WHY does DECnet rename the MAC address?  E It avoids the ARP layer by using a permanent bijection between DECnet  addresses and MAC addresses.    0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:59:34 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? , Message-ID: <43C9743C.4639DCCC@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > I know what I'm doing.  While I will test this on a node which doesn'tG > have the cluster alias, and can log in via LAT, I still don't want to I > take any risks when setting up DECnet that the TCPIP configuration gets D > screwed up so that, in the event of an unexpected power failure or) > whatever, things don't come up properly   < DECNET 4 is pretty simple, robust and trouble free. Really.   G > Which brings up the question: WHY does DECnet rename the MAC address?     B The MAC address becomes a calculable one from the DECNET database.  % AA-00-04-05-04 is for DECNET node 1.5 % AA-00-04-07-04 is for DECNET node 1.7   F This way, DECNET need not need the ARP layer that tried to associate aH network address with a physical address. It sets the physical address toF a known network address. So when it sends a packet, it doesn't need toB lookup some database that associates network address with physicalF address, it just builds the physical address based on network address.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:01:51 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> ' Subject: Re: DECnet: reconfigure TCPIP? : Message-ID: <Phgyf.1142$wl.566@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v5/index.html#decnet might be # helpful for some of the background.   / Start DECnet first, then IP, LAT, LAD/LAST etc.   L All Ethernet_Addr is showing you is the MAC address the interface is runningF with. Sometimes useful, for example if you need to reverse map the MAC4 address to an IP address by examining the ARP cache.  K SDA SHOW LAN /FULL is useful at times - shows you which protocol is running  on which adapter.    --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk E It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:58:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: Farewell to a good reliable friend , Message-ID: <43C965FF.5E4D24A1@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: C > Aw, GEEZ! man! *NEVER* discard that kind of stuff! There's always ' > *SOME*one *SOME*where looking for it!   H The actual MV-II isn't going in the rubbish. Don't worry. And the actualC cabinet is being re-used. And with the side panels, I kept the flat G black panels and the pastic duct inside (nice flat flexible plastic you H can cut with scissors when you need it). All that went out was the heavy
 thick edges.    D The problem is that of transport. Such bulky and heavy things reallyF cost a lot to get moved. And the screws are always VERY handy to mount stuff onto the cabinet.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:18:21 -0500  From: "Chris" <no.one@no.where> / Subject: Re: Farewell to a good reliable friend : Message-ID: <_Meyf.25118$W03.928641@news20.bellglobal.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43C726FB.1C34BCEE@teksavvy.com...G > Tonight, after over 18 years of service, I switched off my all mighty J > MicrovaxII. This morning, the princess lea ears (side panels) were takenG > by the municipal rubbish removal folks. That signaled the point of no  return.  > J > For all the badmouthing of the All Mighty Microvax II, this little beastI > with only 16 megs of memory ran VMS 7.2, TCPIP Services 5.09, ALL-IN-1, D > Message Router and other stuff as well. It is a tribute to the VMSJ > engineers that VMS could still run on an 18 year old platform. (and also( > a tribute to a 100k block pagefile :-) >  > D > This little beast began life serving 12 people in an office with aH > measly RD54 152 meg drive (I still have it and it still works). But inI > the end, it sported 2 SCSI drives totalling 11 gigs of disk storage and  > serving only me :-)  >   K Just finished replacing two MVIIs (9 Mb, 2-RD54s, microVMS 4.7).  that were D in full production use running a 7x24 steel shop.  The path of leastH resistance was to just copy all the apps over to a couple of surplus VAXF 4105As with v7.3, boot, test and go.  Other than having to re-jig someI serial I/O, everything worked perfectly.  The apps run many times faster, B and even old 2Gb RZ28s are WAY bigger and faster than they needed.  I I guess the reliability of the hardware and software were DEC's source of L success, but ultimately their downfall.  Look how profitable DELL is, and ifK you get more than a solid year out of one of their "server-class" machines,  consider yourself lucky!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:35:43 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: Farewell to a good reliable friend , Message-ID: <43C998CC.5B9328D6@teksavvy.com>   Chris wrote:K > I guess the reliability of the hardware and software were DEC's source of * > success, but ultimately their downfall.   C DEC gear was like pieces of art. It isn't until much later that you C realise how valuable they are. So at the time you buy it, you don't I realise that it will remain usefull for much longer than you had thought.   H Had I been told that my all-mighty MVII was one of the oldest ones stillE running, it may have decided to keep it running. But i was told there ? were still plenty of them running and mine was nothing special. $ (although it was special *to me* :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:53:19 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ; Subject: Re: how to permanently reject this kind of address + Message-ID: <43C964BA.4C2C072@teksavvy.com>    David J Dachtera wrote: I > Does anyone know of a way of getting this level of detail from WHOIS or 2 > some other facility on UCX, Multinet or TCPware?    G On a proper whois client, when you inquire about an IP address, it gets H you to a different WHOIS server than if you inquire about a domain name.  E http://www.vaxination.ca/vms  and you can download a fully functional @ WHOIS client with a built-in database of many countries.  And itG automatically goes to the right server if you enter a dotted decimal IP H address. (and will also go to the right server if you enter an AS number6 such as AS7459 which is the network number for Grande.  D If you want to use the limited whois server that comes with VMS, you# need to force the server name on it   # whois -h whois.arin.net ip.ad.re.ss   D When the IP was reassigned to a 3rd party, you get far less details.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:22:32 -0500 , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com>; Subject: Re: how to permanently reject this kind of address 9 Message-ID: <43c9da9b$0$1492$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com>   L You could submit a job when a login fails and then stop the process attached to the failed login attempt.   Just a thought.    rtt     ; "Alphaman" <alphaman-nix-spam@alphant.com> wrote in message 1 news:ea77a$43c90810$186088ed$14138@KNOLOGY.NET...  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:+ > > guys, this is vms and ssh2?  Forget the , > > worry, and do you have intrusion set for+ > > three strikes and you are out, then why  > > bother?  > >  > H > Simple: they chew up memory.  Each attempt creates another process andJ > wastes another couple hundred K on Alpha, and ties up an IP device.  AndF >   I don't want them accessing *any* resource on my system if they'reG > trying to break in via any other -- that's why setting the routing to H > the bitbucket is so much better than other more focused methods, in my book.  > F > But you're right in that they won't be getting in anyways.  Oh, makeG > sure you've got LGI_BRK_TERM set to 0 so that the IDS tracks their IP  > and not a terminal device. >  > Aaron    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:11:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Q-Bus serpentine on 4000 series machines ? , Message-ID: <43C9BD3C.9B387320@teksavvy.com>  F On my all mighty Microvax II, there is a little drawing indicating theC order of modules and this tells me when/where I need a grant card.    G On my new VAX 4000s, (-500A that says it is a 600a , and a -200), there H are no neat drawings. And I have a KLESI card which occupies only the ABB slots, and there is a plastic insert for the CD slots that have no4 connectors at all (which means no grant continuity).  H Looking at dj/google, I can see plenty of posts asking people to referA to "hoffman" and "serpentine". But can't seem to find a post that @ actually provides the information about the 4000s'q QBUS :-( :-(  F Having a card with a plastic insert to fill AB-CD without any grant onA the CD seems to imply that grant is not needed on those systems.    H Does this also mean that I cannot put one module in AB and one module in CD next to it ?     D (I've looked at some of the PDFs for the 4000-600 and -200 and whileF they mention the order of modules, they don't mention the use of grantH cards and the physical placement with regards to AB/CD (probably becauseA all modules for those systems have cab kits that fill out CD with  plastic if needed).    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:52:47 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)7 Subject: Re: Q-Bus serpentine on 4000 series machines ? 2 Message-ID: <06011421524728_20331674@antinode.org>  - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   + > [...]  But can't seem to find a post that B > actually provides the information about the 4000s'q QBUS :-( :-(  F    Working from memory of a 4300, it's not serpentine -- it's straight across the top (AB).  H > Having a card with a plastic insert to fill AB-CD without any grant onC > the CD seems to imply that grant is not needed on those systems.        That's my recollection.  J > Does this also mean that I cannot put one module in AB and one module in > CD next to it ?   H    If my memory serves, then yup, you can't.  (Or at least it won't work if you do.)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:16:01 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: TT_BRDCST? ( Message-ID: <dqbt71$p3s$2@pcls4.std.com>  R helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  I >In article <dqb4fa$s1h$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com  >(Michael Moroney) writes:    U >> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  >>  J >> >I don't follow you.  Before the feature was introduced, no code could  >> >have been relying on it. >>  J >> No, "broadcast" is the default, and if the appropiate bit is clear, youK >> get the default.  To turn off broadcast you have to set the bit, and the 7 >> best name to describe what it does is TT$x_NOBRDCST.    >OK, makes sense...   J >> It would be the ability to switch on/off a feature that was introduced,E >> the default must match "old" behavior so as not to break programs.   G >...but what would be an example of code which wouldn't work after the  A >introduction of the new feature had it been TT_BRDCST instead of 
 >TT_NOBRDCST?   E >I realise that broadcast was the default, but if in the old days it  H >couldn't be turned on and off, what code could possibly depend on this?  J Imagine a properly written program that modified terminal characteristics.J It set undefined bits to 0, as most VMS specs say you should do.  When runH on a later version of VMS it set the (new) TT_BRDCST bit to 0.  This wasJ one of the previously undefined bits.  When run, this program mysteriouslyJ would turn off broadcast messages, whether the person running it wanted toG or not.  An unintended change of behavior, which VMS Engineering always  tries to avoid.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.029 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                            