0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Jan 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 35      Contents:' 7.3-2 Alpha Media near Bloomington, IN?  Re: Another INSTALL suggestion Re: Another INSTALL suggestion, Anyone have a 3520 (firefox) kb/mouse cable? CD's SCSI, and VMS.  Re: Checking for a DCL verb ( Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks!( Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! Re: Help with mini-copy please1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! $ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! Re: KVM Switches	 Re: LK463 	 Re: LK463  Re: Open VMS programing in CF Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-DirectoriesF Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-Directories* Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header* Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header* Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header$ Re: Technical Journal - Jan 06 Issue, Re: VMS TCPIP NFS (novice filesystem sharer)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:21:25 -0500 * From: Brian Wheeler <bdwheele@indiana.edu>0 Subject: 7.3-2 Alpha Media near Bloomington, IN?3 Message-ID: <dqjg3l$k8p$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>   ? Does anyone have 7.3-2 (or 8.2 :) media that I can borrow near  D Bloomington, IN?  I've got an Alpha PWS 500au w/192M that I've been I using to play with VMS using the Hobbyist licenses.  Unfortunately, some  E of the freeware kits on HP's site (GNV & Perl) require 7.3-2.  The C  1 compiler Layered Product Disk would be great too.    Thanks!  Brian    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:22:14 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Another INSTALL suggestion + Message-ID: <43CD6005.65149D8D@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > G > Previously, I suggested the PURGE/DEVICE command for INSTALL, so that D > you could deinstall all known files/"images from a specific volume > (allowing a clean dismount). > ' > As a corrolary, I would also suggest:  >  > LIST/NOHEADER  > I > which would provide outpuit similar to DIR/NOHEAD that could be used as 9 > input to a routine that could then process those files.   D Well, a partial solution would be to code up some DCL to receive the
 output of:  7 $ PIPE INSTALL LIST | SEARCH SYS$PIPE ";",":" | @myproc   ( where "myproc.com" does stuff like this:  
 $ SET NOON $LOOP_1: $ READ/END=EOF_PIPE SYS$PIPE P9 # $ P9 = F$EDIT( P9, "TRIM,COMPRESS") 6 $ GOT_COLON = (F$LOCATE( ":", P9 ) .NE. F$LENGTH( P9 ) $ IF	.NOT. GOT_COLON $ THEN $	SV_DFLT = F$PARSE( P9 )  $ ELSE1 $	FSP = F$PARSE( F$ELEM( 0, "  ", P9 ), SV_DFLT )  $	IF FSP .NES. "" THEN - $	INSTALL REMOVE &FSP  $ ENDIF 
 $ GOTO LOOP_1 
 $EOF_PIPE: $ EXIT  J > of importance here would be the handling of installed files on partiallyG > dismounted disks that won't fully dismount because of that file, even G > though the disk is long gone.  So instead of issuing an error message E > (as LIST currently does), LIST/NOHEAD shoud just include a * in the  > version number.   > Not sure the above would address that concern. Don't think so.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:15:45 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Another INSTALL suggestion + Message-ID: <43CD6C90.F23BAEF1@comcast.net>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > [snip]  , *sigh* Got the conditional backwards here...   >  > $ SET NOON
 > $LOOP_1:! > $ READ/END=EOF_PIPE SYS$PIPE P9 % > $ P9 = F$EDIT( P9, "TRIM,COMPRESS") 8 > $ GOT_COLON = (F$LOCATE( ":", P9 ) .NE. F$LENGTH( P9 ) > $ IF    .NOT. GOT_COLON   
 Should be:   $ IF    GOT_COLON  > $ THEN! > $       SV_DFLT = F$PARSE( P9 )  > $ ELSE9 > $       FSP = F$PARSE( F$ELEM( 0, "  ", P9 ), SV_DFLT )   > $       IF FSP .NES. "" THEN - > $       INSTALL REMOVE &FSP 	 > $ ENDIF  > $ GOTO LOOP_1  > $EOF_PIPE: > $ EXIT > L > > of importance here would be the handling of installed files on partiallyI > > dismounted disks that won't fully dismount because of that file, even I > > though the disk is long gone.  So instead of issuing an error message G > > (as LIST currently does), LIST/NOHEAD shoud just include a * in the  > > version number.  > @ > Not sure the above would address that concern. Don't think so. >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page     --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 15:25:32 -08009 From: "jacob.ritorto@gmail.com" <jacob.ritorto@gmail.com> 5 Subject: Anyone have a 3520 (firefox) kb/mouse cable? B Message-ID: <1137540332.220178.82690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Hi All, F         I've been looking around for one casually for a few months andG am getting bored. It's the cable with a db15 on one end that plugs into G the vax and a little box on the other end that accepts keyboard (lk201, D etc) and mouse.  I need the mouse too..  I foolishly gave this stuff5 away to some vax-curious kid years ago and now, grr..   C If someone could please ship this stuff to me, I'd pay for shipping E plus a few bucks for your trouble..  Or we could trade pdp11 stuffs..    thanks   jake   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 22:15:10 -0800& From: "Mister Q" <pquodling@gmail.com> Subject: CD's SCSI, and VMS.B Message-ID: <1137564910.797802.10350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  D I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intendedE for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from the C integral IDE CD. As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it. I have G some RRD43's and RRD45's floating around, but am getting confused about > the right. Adapter to use (and ultimately the right cable(s)).  B There were several KZ SCSI Adaptors, but these are rare as rockingF horse .... nowadays, so getting the adaptec equivalent is probably theB best approach. Does anyone have a "mapping" of DEC part numbers of Adaptec equivalents?@ ie.e KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPSC, KZPBA, KZPDA, KZPSM, and which is most suitable for CD's.  F cable Wise, most every CDRom (SCSI) that I have seen has a 50 pin bergG on the back, so I am guessing that a 50pin berg to 50 pin berg cable is C the best bet? What happens about SCSI termination? (DB25's, Honda's , VHDCI's etc - What a rats nest of options...  ? The other options is getting a CD-RW drive, and plugging it in, @ allowing CDRECORD to do  its thang... Any comments on compatibleF CDRW's, and what to watch out for... Or at least something faster than) the 4x RRD45's I have floating around...       q    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:54:49 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: Checking for a DCL verb+ Message-ID: <43CD67A9.3615F7B6@comcast.net>    "mb301@hotmail.com" wrote: > H > Is it possible to check for a verb in your process table without doing( > something to generate a error message? >  > example:-  >  > $ show sym rob*ot ? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  > 	 > $ robot % > usage: robot command [ parameters ]  > ; >     Commands:    show, load, unload, eject, inject, help, 9 >                  ready, move, lock, unlock, initialize, * >                  position, home and findH >     Parameters:  robot device, slots #, drives #, ports #, transport # > 3 > I can remove it from my process table like this:-  >  > $ set command/delete=robot > 	 > $ robot H > %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling
 >  \ROBOT\ >  > The same goes for edit >  > Any ideas?  E Well, if you don't mind a bit of hacking that might break in a future H VMS rev., you could try reading DCLTABLES itself in DCL. The first block9 is the image header; the data starts in the second block.   : You can find out the process's command table name like so:  5 $ tbl = f$parse( f$getjpi( 0, "tablename" ), ".EXE" )   C (Remember that if "SET COMMAND filespec" has been issued during the C process's lifetime, the command table on disk may not represent the 0 current content of the process's command table.)  * Just OPEN it as a file in DCL and READ it:  3 $ OPEN/READ/SHARE=WRITE DCT SYS$SHARE:DCLTABLES.EXE % $ READ DCT P9	! Skip the image header ( $ READ DCT P9	! Get the first data block 	. 	. 	.) $ READ DCT P9	! Get the second data block   E Each verb is listed in the table as the first four bytes of each verb & name. Here's an example (DUMP output):  @ Dump of file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE;115 on 17-JAN-2006 15:34:57.35 : File ID (7655,1,0)   End of file block 882 / Allocated 884  3 Virtual block number 2 (00000002), 512 (0200) bytes   <  00000230 00000014 00020006 01010014 ............0... 000000<  4F434341 00000000 0301021C 0006DE50 P ..........ACCO 000010<  49535341 45505041 4C414E41 4F4C4C41 ALLOANALAPPEASSI 000020<  4C4C4143 00000043 4B434142 41545441 ATTABACKC...CALL 000030<  534F4C43 43454843 00004343 434E4143 CANCCC..CHECCLOS 000040<  564E4F43 544E4F43 4E4E4F43 464E4F43 CONFCONNCONTCONV 000050<  4C414544 44585843 41455243 59504F43 COPYCREACXXDDEAL 000060<  00464544 4B434544 55424544 53414544 DEASDEBUDECKDEF. 000070<  47414944 4F504544 454C4544 49464544 DEFIDELEDEPODIAG 000080<  43534944 41534944 45524944 46464944 DIFFDIREDISADISC 000090<  54494445 504D5544 004D5344 4D534944 DISMDSM.DUMPEDIT 0000A0<  53444E45 49444E45 42414E45 45534C45 ELSEENABENDIENDS 0000B0<  48435845 4D415845 004A4F45 00444F45 EOD.EOJ.EXAMEXCH 0000C0<  00505446 544E4F46 474E4946 54495845 EXITFINGFONTFTP. 0000D0<  504C4548 4F544F47 55534F47 434E4547 GENCGOSUGOTOHELP 0000E0<  55514E49 54494E49 00004649 4E4F4349 ICONIF..INITINQU 0000F0<  5242494C 0000444C 4156414A 54534E49 INSTJAVALD..LIBR 000100<  41434F4C 00004F4C 4B4E494C 4543494C LICELINKLO..LOCA 000110<  0052434D 4C49414D 5243414D 4F474F4C LOGOMACRMAILMCR. 000120<  4E554F4D 494E4F4D 5353454D 4752454D MERGMESSMONIMOUN 000130<  4D53464E 4453464E 0053434E 544C554D MULTNCS.NFSDNFSM 000140<  00004E4F 5450544E 5150544E 4450544E NTPDNTPQNTPTON.. 000150<  45504950 4E4F4850 43534150 4E45504F OPENPASCPHONPIPE 000160<  52575350 444F5250 4E495250 44505050 PPPDPRINPRODPSWR 000170<  44414552 00504352 00000052 47525550 PURGR...RCP.READ 000180<  414E4552 494D4552 4F434552 41434552 RECARECOREMIRENA 000190<  474F4C52 55544552 55514552 4C504552 REPLREQURETURLOG 0001A0<  004E5552 00005552 45485352 41544D52 RMTARSHERU..RUN. 0001B0<  00544553 52414553 45535552 4F4E5552 RUNORUSESEARSET. 0001C0<  57415053 54524F53 574F4853 00004853 SH..SHOWSORTSPAW 0001D0<  52425553 4D425553 504F5453 52415453 STARSTOPSUBMSUBR 0001E0<  50544654 4E4C4554 4B4C4154 434E5953 SYNCTALKTELNTFTP 0001F0  @ Dump of file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE;115 on 17-JAN-2006 15:34:57.35 : File ID (7655,1,0)   End of file block 882 / Allocated 884  3 Virtual block number 3 (00000003), 512 (0200) bytes   <  004C4955 45505954 45524854 4E454854 THENTHRETYPEUIL. 000000<  54494157 57454956 495A4E55 4F4C4E55 UNLOUNZIVIEWWAIT 000010<  0043495A 50544E58 54495257 494F4857 WHOIWRITXNTPZIC. 000020<  00001008 0000044C 00850000 0401021C ........L....... 000030<  00007958 000073FC 00006428 000010E8 ...(d..s..Xy.. 000040<  00009048 00008F9C 00008F64 00007A20  z..d.......H... 000050<  0000C934 0000C858 0000C6C8 000090D4 .....X..4.. 000060<  0000D954 0000CC08 00008F64 0000CB14 ...d......T.. 000070<  0000FE90 0000FDD4 0000FD48 0000E470 p..H..... .. 000080<  0001060C 0001060C 000105B8 0001013C <... ........... 000090<  00012F38 00012AA8 0001296C 0001121C ....l)..*..8/.. 0000A0<  00015408 000153A8 00015174 00013AD4 :..tQ..S...T.. 0000B0<  00018494 000165B4 00015710 000156E4 V...W.. e...... 0000C0<  0001877C 0001873C 0001870C 000184E4 .......<...|... 0000D0<  00019030 0001891C 000187D4 000187A8 ..........0... 0000E0<  00019E2C 000194F8 00019110 0001905C \..........,... 0000F0<  0001B120 00019FA4 00019F50 00019EF8 ...P... ... .. 000100<  0001CF50 0001CE98 0001B438 0001B410 . ..8 .....P.. 000110<  00022998 00021BB0 00020294 0001CFBC ..........).. 000120<  00026028 000260CC 00026028 000252AC  R..(`..`..(`.. 000130<  0002A5AC 0002A580 0002A04C 00026960 `i..L...... .. 000140<  0002D9C0 0002B78C 0002B34C 0002B0DC ܰ..L....... 000150<  000408D4 0003FB18 0003F8FC 0003F030 0 .......... 000160<  00040AA4 00040A7C 000409EC 00040964 d......|... ... 000170<  00041270 000410F0 00040F48 00040CB0 ...H... ...p... 000180<  000473C0 000470D0 00042F10 00042498 .$.../.. p..s.. 000190<  00048A18 000487AC 0004831C 00047624 $v...... ....... 0001A0<  00049678 00049040 00048FB4 00048BD8 ... ...@...x... 0001B0<  0004A244 00049FA0 00049F70 00049ECC ...p.......D.. 0001C0<  0004ABE4 00047624 00047624 0004A8FC ..$v..$v.... 0001D0<  000610D8 0004C0CC 0004B704 0004B624 $.......... 0001E0<  00068C14 000688F0 000684BC 000610D8 ...... ....... 0001F0  B So, as you read the verb table, check for the presence of the verb) fragment you're seeking using F$LOCATE().   F It looks like the start offset of the verb table is found in the firstF data block at offset %X08 (four-byte longword?), and the length of the5 table is found at offset %X0C (four-byte longword?).    F Within that portion of the data, check at four-byte boundaries for the string you seek.     If:  o you don't find it 9 o and F$SEARCH( "DCL$PATH:verb.*" ) returns a null string * o and F$TYPE( verb ) returns a null string  G ...then you may be able to use that "verb" (symbol name, etc.) for your 7 own purposes with the caveat above about "SET COMMAND".    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:59:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! , Message-ID: <43CD5A91.75BBC77B@teksavvy.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > H > I emailed and talked to head of manufacturing ... you can call them at > various numbers at  @ Bob, nobody wants VMS on that IA64 thing. It was an architectureE inflicted on us. If we are to drop Alpha, we might as well go for the H real low cost, commodity industry standard, the 8086, at which point youD don't have to beg for any size machine, from handheld to datacentre,% giving VMS back its true scalability.   G Just think how VMS clustering would beat the pants off Window's idea of  office architecture.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:29:15 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! + Message-ID: <43CD6FBB.6CA142EB@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > J > > I emailed and talked to head of manufacturing ... you can call them at > > various numbers at > + > Bob, nobody wants VMS on that IA64 thing.   & I don't know as I'd go quite that far.  H x86-64 is generally acknowledged (even by me) as not being able to scale! as big as I64 systems need to be.   F ...*AND*, the really *BIG* ones need to be blazingly fast, faster even than EV-7z with mucho memory.   H Better than even bet (but not by much): our new GS1280s will be replacedF with I64 SuperDomes much sooner than anyone wants to admit. I say "notE by much" because VMS doesn't have a "lock" on our site, and somewhere H down the road some poor, deluded soul may try to do away with VMS there.E That's when I'll "retire" from VMS, like as not, and take up some new ? business to carry the wife and myself through our sunset years.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 14:38:55 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)' Subject: Re: Help with mini-copy please , Message-ID: <XcWA+FMhvwWh@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  J > Presumably, when MINICOPY starts working even for unexpected dismounts, H > system crashes etc, what will happen is that the write bitmap will be > > created when the shadow set is mounted.  Or am I wrong here?  I Existing HBMM bitmaps will be "converted" for minicopy use for unexpected  member removal.   H There will be an added keyword to the HBMM policy definition syntax thatH will specify how many of the HBMM bitmaps are "multiple-use" -- that is,D how many may be converted for minicopy in the event of an unexpected member removal.   G As I've mentioned before, this capability will be available in the V8.3  field test.    --    L Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:03:02 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!= Message-ID: <43cd4d71$0$67257$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    John Santos wrote:; > M$ seems to win right now on easy of installation and use 4 > (except maybe against Mac OS X) until it explodes.  I That is not true.  It is true if you can use the preinstalled version of  I Windows, but Linux is easier if you want extra software on your computer.   D When you install Linux, you will install Linux, the office package, G compilers, databases, web server, etc., in one operation, and then you  H will automatically update all Linux and all the applications in one big B download.  The builders of the distribution have tested, that you 1 install and update all thinks in the right order.   H When I installed Windows on the computer, I am writing this from, I did C not have an Internet connection.  So I phoned Microsoft to get the  A license number that is to be typed into the computer.  It was an  F automatic phone system, that was reading the number faster than I can C type (at least with a phone in one hand.)  I had to write down the  G number on a piece of paper before typing it in.  It was a pain.  Linux  E does not have that problem because it is meaningless to check if the   user has a license for GPL.   I If you are to install MSDN, Visual Studio, a web server, and a database,  H the you better make sure, you do it in the right order.  E.g. if you do E not install SQLserver and Visual Studio in the right order, then you  B will not get all the options for developing database applications A installed.  For each product you install, you have to reboot the  H computer at least once, and in the case of visual Studio, you will have C to do it many times.  My experience is that people usually have to  - install a machine used for development twice.   F When you have everything installed, you can start downloading patches H and reboot and download and reboot and download and reboot and download  and reboot.   H Please note that many of the problems to installing Windows are closely I related to the fact that you buy software for Windows.  Microsoft cannot  H send out a number of DVDs with all their software to all its customers, H because people will install all the software on all their machines, and + then Microsoft will not make as much money.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 13:43:59 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!B Message-ID: <1137534239.674656.29370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  F "When you have everything installed, you can start downloading patchesG and reboot and download and reboot and download and reboot and download   
 and reboot. "   0 and looking at all the certs, this is an endless process ... :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:08:48 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!0 Message-ID: <11sqqnqj3vffb79@corp.supernews.com>   John Santos wrote:G > In article <11sp8rs8e5ooj89@corp.supernews.com>, davef@tsoft-inc.com  	 > says...  >  >>bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >>8 >>>actually, if linux succeeds on the desktop, that will9 >>>prove either HP execs are either stupid or on the take  >>>from micro$oft ...  >>>  >>% >>You been off your medication again?  >>; >>Why would MicroSoft want Linux to succeed on the desktop?  >  > ? > I don't think that's Bob's point.  (Defending Bob - Yikes :-)    Scary, isn't it?   > Bob's premises:  >  > 1) Linux succeeds. > . > 2) It is possible to beat M$ on the desktop. > D > 3) VMS is a better underlying platform than Linux, so if Linux can > do it, so could VMS. >  > 4) So why didn't they try? >  > Bob's conclusions: > B > 5A)  HP execs were stupid, they could have had a very successful% > product if they had invested in it.  >  > or...  > @ > 5B) HP execs (or their DEC/Compaq predecessors) must be on theA > take from M$, because they passed up a good opportunity to make B > lots of money for HP on VMS desktops.  (I.E. they took the money > and ran.)   G Yep, another way to read it, and given boob's preferences, most likely  I what he was trying to say.  (Boob's rather stingy with words and capitol   letters and such.)   Good catch John.   > ---- > @ > I don't necessarily agree with all the points above - I'm just$ > trying to summarize Bob's thinking   Have a headache yet?   > and show it does not imply( > at all that M$ wants Linux to succeed. > > > In fact, I could quibble with all of them, except (possibly)- > # 2!  Some day, like Dubya, M$ will fall...     I can take MS easier than Dubya.  > > 1) Linux succeeds (on the desktop).  Well, time will tell... > > > 2) It is possible to beat M$.  Technically, that's easy (for< > some values of *easy*.)  Lot's of things are better for at> > least some component of the desktop.  Virtually any other OS? > is better then Windows.  Mac OS X seems better from virtually = > any standpoint.  There are lots of better web browsers than > > IE, lots of better mail clients than Outlook, lots of better< > just about anythings than the M$ versions.  But this isn't	 > enough.   F Needed to do some simple scanning.  Found plenty of third party tools G available, cheap or free.  If I needed to scan in a VMS environment, I  G haven't any idea where to start looking, nor could I be sure there was   anything to be found.   G That's one of Microsoft's greatest advantages.  Software writers write  I solely for windoz, the market being large enough that they can choose to  ) ignore everything else.  Including Linux.   ? > There are lots of cheaper O/S's and apps than the M$ versions @ > (but not Mac OS X, which seems a little more expensive, though6 > I don't have hard numbers to back this up.)  That is > also not enough. > 3 > M$ seems to win right now on easy of installation   D Not this one.  VMS installs much easier than windoz.  It also has a A built in tool to make (file based) image copies of a disk, and a   restored image is usable.   	 > and use   G A matter of personal preference.  I move many things to VMS to perform   some tasks.   = > (except maybe against Mac OS X) until it explodes.  It also 8 > wins on breadth of 3rd party software.  (Maybe someday@ > Java or some other truly portable successor will fix that, but= > right now you need a lot more CPU cycles to do something in < > Java than you do in native code for any architecture, so aC > native app will have a performance advantage.  Waiting 15 seconds = > for a Java-based office suite to fire up on my Powerbook is F > much more annoying than waiting 5 seconds for MS office to start.)   > 5 > But most of this is fixable, unlike M$ security :-)  > < > Whether it will be Linux that does it is another question. > ? > 3) VMS is a better underlying platform than Linux.  Yeah, but . > that is far from the only factor involved... > = > 4) So why didn't they try?  Well, they did try (All-in-One) + > but gave up, maybe too soon, maybe not.     7 Too soon.  Part of Palmer's embracing of everything MS.   ? > 5A) HP were stupid.  Maybe they accurately assessed the risks @ > and benefits, and decided (legitimately but incorrectly - this? > assuming Linux succeeds) that it wasn't worth the investment. ? > We can't know without knowing all kinds of inside information  > that none of us are privy to.  > > > 5B) HP execs were paid off by M$.  Maybe, follow the money!,< > but there is no evidence of this.  If HP (vs. their execs): > was paid off by M$ (I.e. there was no malfeasance), then> > maybe HP was better off as a result, or maybe their analysis> > was wrong and they would have been better off not taking the= > deal. ("Payoffs" might include such things as better prices = > on bundled M$ products in their PC line, rebates, marketing : > help, etc.)  Or maybe the whole thing is just a paranoid > delusion.  > ? > 5C-5Z) 24 other reasons why HP decided to abandon the desktop  > market for VMS.  >  > C > I suspect someday it might well be possible to run just about any B > current ("current" that time in the indefinite future) "desktop"> > application on a VMS system, provided it still exists or the= > necessary glue has been ported (by a committed group of VMS > > partisans, if not by HP), but it will require something muchD > more powerful than my AlphaStation 200 to run them :-)  And no way > on a VAX.   G Hardware advances have enabled many things, and will continue to do so.   6 > The reason I think this is if third-party developersG > decide they need an escape route from M$ and then get tired of having > > to maintain everything on M$, OS X, Linux, and whatever else> > comes along, and demand or settle on some portable set of OS; > facilities they need (possibly based on Java, possibly on = > some subset that can be implemented with better performance A > on all the platforms), then everything important will be ported  > to this common environment.   C I've got a customer who is talking this way right now.  Good point.   % > Right now, the "common environment" < > is Windows, but it's proprietary, buggy, poorly documentedA > (secret API's that M$ put in there to give their own apps a leg < > up on the competition), not portable, and just plain ugly. > > > I realize this is a holy grail that people have been looking? > for since the days COBOL and FORTRAN were invented, but it is > > getting closer, which is why I said 'just about any" instead* > of "any".  After all, it is just a SMOP. >  >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 14:14:40 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!C Message-ID: <1137536080.764367.134690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G I was talking with Jesse Lipcon some time ago, and he correctly pointed G out that the ONLY difference between a SERVER and a WORKSTATION was the  addition of a graphics card.  D The point?  Making a workstation is trivial by tossing in a graphicsE card on a free PCI slot.  The challenge?  Does the market want it bad E enough to make it a product.  Unfortunately, even though a few people F here will disagree, there is no mass market demand for large groups ofF VMS software guys to have VMS workstations on their desks.  And forget@ that there is no POP3/IMAP client, word processing, spreadsheet,D presentation, etc tools out there.  No, VAX Document, MASS-11, 2020,* ALL-IN-1 and friends don't make the grade.  < The other complaint some make that they need to make the VMSG workstations only cost $200 or some low-ball figure.  Where do you guys @ get that number?  Cause it's cheaper than a $279 Frye's LinspireA Desktop?  You want the relaibility and robustness of OpenVMS, but F expect to put it on the cheapest commodity hardware available that MAYF not even work with LInux or Windows with "reliability and robostness"?B What's up with that?  The premier O/S running on the cheapest crap9 hardware?  Why do you think you could trust that to work?   A OpenVMS software and hardware will likely never been cheaper that D Windows and LInux hardware/software.  Why?  Because it's BETTER thanE that, and sometimes you have to pay a little more for quality.  After G all, almost EVERY sample disk unit tested by StorageWorks FAILED due to D firmware bugs found by the SW team - and required to be fixed beforeB shipment to OpenVMS customers.  The failed drives?  Probably on M$$ systems.  You really want them back?  E The premise seems to be that the success of OpenVMS is dependent upon E its success on the desktop?  Why is that?  The success of OpenVMS has E never been due to the desktop, so why should it's future be tied that F that now?  After all, Windows is still struggling to get into the dataG center.  Would the converse be that until Windows kills their GUI, they & will never succeed in the server farm?  E The OpenVMS workstation will be the exception.  OpenOffice is coming, D Mozilla is already there.  Other tools/products will find their way,G too.  Some quality graphics cards will likely always be supported.  But E the OpenVMS Workstation will still be the exception in the workplace,  and that's okay.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:15:25 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!0 Message-ID: <11sqr4376dsdn6e@corp.supernews.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:   K > I cannot see VMS return on the desktop without moving to the PC hardware  0 > platform, and that means moving VMS to x86-64.  > Another way of looking at it.  The PC will be on the desktop. D Therefore, if VMS wants to be on the desktop, it must run on the PC.  ? Wanting to be on the desktop is the largest, and only, problem.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:25:31 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!5 Message-ID: <slrndsqrmr.2tp.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   t In article <1137536080.764367.134690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, davidc@montagar.com <davidc@montagar.com> wrote:I > I was talking with Jesse Lipcon some time ago, and he correctly pointed I > out that the ONLY difference between a SERVER and a WORKSTATION was the  > addition of a graphics card.  $ Well, there's a little more to it...  K Hardware features that are common on servers, but uncommon on workstations:   F 	a) Built-in remote management access (e.g. can power on/off remotely)  F 	   [and I don't include Wake-On-LAN here. It's a cheap hack, at best.0 	   It's not a full blown management interface.]  ? 	b) ECC memory -- this *may* exist on workstations... or it may / 	   not, but it's usually a given with servers.   @ 	c) Greater redundancy with various components -- e.g. PSU, CPU, 	   adapters, etc.  5 	d) Greater monitoring capabilities for various FRUs.   C What you say is technically true; that was the difference between a 1 VAXstation 4000 and VAXserver 4000, for instance.   D But there's really more to it when you think about it for the common
 case, though.    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:25:48 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!= Message-ID: <43cd7cf7$0$67264$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Dave Froble wrote:, > The PC will be on the desktop. Therefore, ; > if VMS wants to be on the desktop, it must run on the PC.   I No it is the only platform where you can buy workstations at a price tag  H the bean counters will accept.  You need some really convincing reasons F before you can get a bean counter to pay a couple of times more for a + desktop computer than they are used to pay.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:40:24 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!= Message-ID: <43cd8062$0$78286$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    davidc@montagar.com wrote:> > The other complaint some make that they need to make the VMSI > workstations only cost $200 or some low-ball figure.  Where do you guys B > get that number?  Cause it's cheaper than a $279 Frye's LinspireC > Desktop?  You want the relaibility and robustness of OpenVMS, but H > expect to put it on the cheapest commodity hardware available that MAYH > not even work with LInux or Windows with "reliability and robostness"?D > What's up with that?  The premier O/S running on the cheapest crap; > hardware?  Why do you think you could trust that to work?  > C > OpenVMS software and hardware will likely never been cheaper that F > Windows and LInux hardware/software.  Why?  Because it's BETTER than@ > that, and sometimes you have to pay a little more for quality.  C The advantages of VMS are not that important on the desktop.  If a  H desktop fails, you simply continue to work on an other machine.  To put I it an other way:  If you what high availability on the desktop, then you  I should put your files on a reliable server, e.g., a VMS server, but your  G desktop may be cheap because you can simply switch to a new machine if  ! the one you are working at fails.   G When I buy a computer, I may get e.g. $1500 to buy it for.  If I am to  H use the $1400 on hardware, then I can spend $100 on software.  If am to G use $700 on hardware then I can spend $800 on software.  That is eight  A times as much, and that is eight times as much for the continued   development of VMS.   H VMS simply becomes too expensive for the desktop when both hardware and  software is expensive.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 17:10:30 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!C Message-ID: <1137546630.416726.142810@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   @ The items you mention aren't on all HP OpenVMS capable hardware,F either.  So again we're basically back  to the difference between many& [X]Station vs. [X]Server.  A PCI card.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:33:29 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!, Message-ID: <43CD9ACE.4CCF94AA@teksavvy.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote: > B > The items you mention aren't on all HP OpenVMS capable hardware,H > either.  So again we're basically back  to the difference between many( > [X]Station vs. [X]Server.  A PCI card.  G From a hardware poinmt of view perhaps. But from a pricing, competition + and marketing, there is a whole difference.   G Remember DEC's decision to prevent Alpha from competing agianst its own  Wintel PCs ?  G Remember DEC's pricing of the C compiler at about 10 times the price of 0 the Microsoft complete development environment ?  A And lets not forget the "excuse" that the DS10/DS15 can't compete H because they were designed as servers with expensive components comparedG to the 8086 based servers and workstations which cost less and offer as  much performance.     A The poing is that by going to the 8086 architecture, VMS would be @ running on the same servers that HP heavily advertises, the sameH workstations, laptops etc that get heavily advertises and there would be@ no excuse possible to say that VMS's hardware is more expensive.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:49:08 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!0 Message-ID: <11srlmugir2at93@corp.supernews.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote:I > I was talking with Jesse Lipcon some time ago, and he correctly pointed I > out that the ONLY difference between a SERVER and a WORKSTATION was the  > addition of a graphics card. > F > The point?  Making a workstation is trivial by tossing in a graphicsG > card on a free PCI slot.  The challenge?  Does the market want it bad G > enough to make it a product.  Unfortunately, even though a few people H > here will disagree, there is no mass market demand for large groups ofH > VMS software guys to have VMS workstations on their desks.  And forgetB > that there is no POP3/IMAP client, word processing, spreadsheet,F > presentation, etc tools out there.  No, VAX Document, MASS-11, 2020,, > ALL-IN-1 and friends don't make the grade. > > > The other complaint some make that they need to make the VMSI > workstations only cost $200 or some low-ball figure.  Where do you guys B > get that number?  Cause it's cheaper than a $279 Frye's LinspireC > Desktop?  You want the relaibility and robustness of OpenVMS, but H > expect to put it on the cheapest commodity hardware available that MAYH > not even work with LInux or Windows with "reliability and robostness"?D > What's up with that?  The premier O/S running on the cheapest crap; > hardware?  Why do you think you could trust that to work?   D Well, it would be nice if the hardware costs were the same.  You're G correct about some of the hardware doesn't work well with any OS.  But  , there is some reasonable hardware out there.  C > OpenVMS software and hardware will likely never been cheaper that F > Windows and LInux hardware/software.  Why?  Because it's BETTER thanG > that, and sometimes you have to pay a little more for quality.  After I > all, almost EVERY sample disk unit tested by StorageWorks FAILED due to F > firmware bugs found by the SW team - and required to be fixed beforeD > shipment to OpenVMS customers.  The failed drives?  Probably on M$& > systems.  You really want them back?  F More and more, these things are commodities, and that doesn't have to  mean lesser quality.  G > The premise seems to be that the success of OpenVMS is dependent upon G > its success on the desktop?  Why is that?  The success of OpenVMS has G > never been due to the desktop, so why should it's future be tied that H > that now?  After all, Windows is still struggling to get into the dataI > center.  Would the converse be that until Windows kills their GUI, they ( > will never succeed in the server farm?  G Got to agree about the desktop.  I have VMS workstation systems, but I  E won't use them on the desktop.  I'm perfectly happy using a terminal  : emulator to access my VMS system(s).  Best of both worlds.  C Where VMS used to be viable is smaller businesses.  For example, a  G company that could get by with a MicroVAX 3100 and several SCSI disks.  F Because of DEC's pricing practices, these type of systems lost out to H windoz.  Each one may not have been much, but there used to be a rather F large number of such.  There still are companies running on DS10 type H systems.  The cost of the DS10 sure is less than what the MicroVAX 3100 H systems sold for.  If DEC would have been competitive, the PCs wouldn't ! have succeeded in many companies.   C DEC didn't just give up the desktop, they gave up on most of their  
 customers.  G > The OpenVMS workstation will be the exception.  OpenOffice is coming, F > Mozilla is already there.  Other tools/products will find their way,I > too.  Some quality graphics cards will likely always be supported.  But G > the OpenVMS Workstation will still be the exception in the workplace,  > and that's okay. >    Agreed.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 21:54:14 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!C Message-ID: <1137563654.203599.179050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   > > The advantages of VMS are not that important on the desktop.  6 That statement pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it.  P >To put it an other way:  If you what high availability on the desktop, then youI >should put your files on a reliable server, e.g., a VMS server, but your G >desktop may be cheap because you can simply switch to a new machine if " t>he one you are working at fails.  F I agree.  And that's where you see OpenVMS, on the reliable server not the cheap desktop.  G >When I buy a computer, I may get e.g. $1500 to buy it for.  If I am to H >use the $1400 on hardware, then I can spend $100 on software.  If am toG >use $700 on hardware then I can spend $800 on software.  That is eight A >times as much, and that is eight times as much for the continued  >development of VMS.  D Yeah, but if you put it on a $279 GQ PC from Frye's (pre-loaded withC Linspire), you can pay $1,200 for the continued development of VMS. E That's 50% more than your example.  But would you honestly spend that F money?  As you've said, the advantages of OpenVMS are not important onD the desktop.  We can make up numbers, but the real question is "WhatD would John Q. Corpotration" or "Joe Public" buy?  Would they want to8 buy the advantages of OpenVMS for their desktop, either?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:06:23 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CD5C45.4A22065E@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE, > why hasn't VMS taken off?   	 one word:   = <font size=500 attribute="BOLD,BLINK,UNDERLINE,REVERSE_VIDEO, + DOUBLE_WIDTH, DOUBLE_HEIGHT", COLOUR="RED">      	M A R K E T I N G     </font>     C As long as Palmer/Gartner's message that VMS was dead persists, VMS  cannot make inroads.    8 The OS may not be dead, but the market think it is dead.  F This is why the announcement that VMS is to be ported to the 8086 willC invigotrate VMS because that will make teh news and be a very clear E message that HP intends VMS to be maintream and not relegated to some G obscrure platform and niche market. Going onto the 8086 would instantly F make VMS available on the full range of industry standard computers atC very litle cost compared to developping low volume specialised IA64  thing laptops, desktops etc.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:44:48 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! $ Message-ID: <dqjogf$pp0$1@online.de>  5 In article <43CD5C45.4A22065E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE, > > why hasn't VMS taken off?  >  > one word:  > ? > <font size=500 attribute="BOLD,BLINK,UNDERLINE,REVERSE_VIDEO, - > DOUBLE_WIDTH, DOUBLE_HEIGHT", COLOUR="RED">  >  >  > 	M A R K E T I N G  D While marketing might have helped, and Palmer certainly did hurt, I H don't think the only reason is lack of marketing.  Linux didn't succeed H because of marketing, it succeeded because it was cheap.  I still think F that, though VMS can't really compete with linux there and shouldn't, D one should think about some sort of entry-level commercial license, H perhaps without support.  As long as it wouldn't take away revenue from 7 existing customers, I don't see why HP shouldn't do it.   H > This is why the announcement that VMS is to be ported to the 8086 willE > invigotrate VMS because that will make teh news and be a very clear G > message that HP intends VMS to be maintream and not relegated to some I > obscrure platform and niche market. Going onto the 8086 would instantly H > make VMS available on the full range of industry standard computers atE > very litle cost compared to developping low volume specialised IA64  > thing laptops, desktops etc.  G Yes, but if the license costs 10 times what the hardware does, I don't  ) see it being a winner in the marketplace.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:55:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CD67AE.B81F4279@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: I > don't think the only reason is lack of marketing.  Linux didn't succeed ; > because of marketing, it succeeded because it was cheap.    G Marketing marekting marketing. It turned from a gooek toy to a business B OS when the press started to talk about Linux as a serious OS withE better uptime than Windows and fewer holes/viri. Do not underestimate  the power of the trade rags.  H The "free" linux helped a lot, especially with pilot projects that couldH be rolled out on some leftover 8086 box for free to show management that it would work.  C And once the big guys like Oracle etc started to announce stufg for  Linux, then it really took off.   H > Yes, but if the license costs 10 times what the hardware does, I don't+ > see it being a winner in the marketplace.   J Nobody is claiming that VMS can displace Widnows as the de-facto standard.  E But if moving fromn that IA64 thing to the 8086 can increase sales of G VMS from 100 to 200 new customers per year, that ios a 100% increase in H sales. And if the installed base can start to grow instead of shrink, it7 also means that ISVs will see VMS as a growth platform.   A With the current state of VMS, you don't need dramatic numbers to F significantly give it growth.  Imagine if VMS could even get 1% of the wintel market.  H Also, consider the strategy: the more OSs are available on the 8086, theE more it dilutes Windows in the numbers, and people will start to talk C about OS-less server markets instead of Windows. It will be windows = against MacOS vs Linux vs Solaris Vs VMS vs Etc on thje 8086.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:14:16 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! + Message-ID: <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > [snip]H > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE, > why hasn't VMS taken off?   < Can you show me a source of VMS-capable hardware at no cost?  F Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time,G and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't 8 have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases.  C No one but us fanatics already have (or have access to) VMS-capable G hardware. So, you're looking at eBay where hardware may come cheap, but F shipping costs can still be prohibitive for many would-be hobbyists onF the larger systems (2100s, 4100s, ES4xs, etc.) or even "desktop" class9 machines like -AUs, 200s, 250s, 255s, XP1000, DS1xs, etc.   F Most of us in this forum do have our own internet access; however, theE operating software is not freely downloadable. At a minimum, you must F already have access to the media, or order the $35 kit from Montagar -H and even that doesn't get you access to media for the commercial layered* products included in the hobbyist program.  G You do still need license PAKs where required, but those are accessible  at no additional monetary cost.   H All that said, there is actually enough free software floating around toD build a VMS-based web / e-mail / datbase server once you conquer the" hardware/o.s. acquisition hurdles.  G So, if you *DO* know how to get VMS-capable hardware for "free", by all  means: expound profusely.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2006 22:16:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4358mcF1lc6uiU1@individual.net>  $ In article <dqjogf$pp0$1@online.de>,S 	helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 7 > In article <43CD5C45.4A22065E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ) > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   > 2 >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:K >> > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE,  >> > why hasn't VMS taken off?   >>   >> one word: >>  @ >> <font size=500 attribute="BOLD,BLINK,UNDERLINE,REVERSE_VIDEO,. >> DOUBLE_WIDTH, DOUBLE_HEIGHT", COLOUR="RED"> >>   >>   >> 	M A R K E T I N G  > F > While marketing might have helped, and Palmer certainly did hurt, I J > don't think the only reason is lack of marketing.  Linux didn't succeed ; > because of marketing, it succeeded because it was cheap.    J And here, I have to disagree with you.  {Free|Net|Open}BSD are technicallyF superior to Linux.  On a x86 platform FreeBSD is noticably better thanH Linux.  And yet, which one is more popular?  Why?  Simple.  When was theH last time you saw any mention of FreeBSD in the trade press?  And Linux?I Where can you buy "The FreeBSD Journal"?  And "The Linux Journal"?  Linux = is hyped way more than any of the BSD's and that's MARKETING.   I >                                                          I still think  H > that, though VMS can't really compete with linux there and shouldn't, F > one should think about some sort of entry-level commercial license, J > perhaps without support.  As long as it wouldn't take away revenue from 9 > existing customers, I don't see why HP shouldn't do it.   I It would.  The second they started doing that MS would cut the incentives G it gives HP for pushing Windows.  And Windows/PC margins are razor thin  now.   > I >> This is why the announcement that VMS is to be ported to the 8086 will F >> invigotrate VMS because that will make teh news and be a very clearH >> message that HP intends VMS to be maintream and not relegated to someJ >> obscrure platform and niche market. Going onto the 8086 would instantlyI >> make VMS available on the full range of industry standard computers at F >> very litle cost compared to developping low volume specialised IA64 >> thing laptops, desktops etc.  > I > Yes, but if the license costs 10 times what the hardware does, I don't  + > see it being a winner in the marketplace.      I It has to.  The hardware is commodity garbage and as such can not command F high prices.  Which is why the margins are so thin in the first place.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2006 22:21:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4358upF1lc6uiU2@individual.net>  , In article <43CD67AE.B81F4279@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > J > Also, consider the strategy: the more OSs are available on the 8086, theG > more it dilutes Windows in the numbers, and people will start to talk E > about OS-less server markets instead of Windows. It will be windows ? > against MacOS vs Linux vs Solaris Vs VMS vs Etc on thje 8086.   G Except that all t hose OSes will not run on generic commodity hardware. F MacOS certainly won't, Solaris certainly doesn't (look at their HCL! IF have.)  ANd there is no chance that VMS would. The only OS that can beD expected to run on pretty much any x86 platform is still going to be Windows.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:22:46 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 0 Message-ID: <11sqrhsldlulp71@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   H > I'm not so sure.  This has been debated quite a bit here, of course.  I > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE,   > why hasn't VMS taken off?   E The free (or almost compared to original cost) hardware is old stuff  B being replaced.  What other environment uses used hardware?  None!  C It's a rather nice endorsement of VMS, VAX, and Alpha that the old  H hardware is still so useful.  Don't see many 486, 386, and such systems  anymore.  C Regardless, not many businesses would depend on discarded hardware.   D Also remember that most of that old hardware is running on hobbyist 	 licenses.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:27:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CD6F4A.4C4A6F85@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:K > It would.  The second they started doing that MS would cut the incentives I > it gives HP for pushing Windows.  And Windows/PC margins are razor thin  > now.    E While this may have been true in the past, consider that Dell is also B selling Linux. Microsoft has much less tractions with its monopolyF practices, especially in light of all the anti-trust issues. Same with Intel.    E And with Windows losing market share, it would be suicide for them to H start pissing off its main distributors. Cut off HP, and Microsoft loses more market share.  P And BTW, Apple's market value has now exceeded that of Dell. Times are changing.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2006 22:39:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <435a1aF1km2doU1@individual.net>  + In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: 1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 	 >> [snip] I >> However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE,  >> why hasn't VMS taken off? > > > Can you show me a source of VMS-capable hardware at no cost?  F A source?  Try the dumpster out back.  :-)  I have never bought a VAX.F I have had MVax II's, 3100's (still have a half dozen of them), 4000'sE (still have some of them).  Heck, I didn't pay for the three big iron H Vax's I'm using to support the students.  :-)  Of course, I doubt anyoneC is likely to stake their business on what they get dumpster diving.    > H > Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time,I > and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't : > have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases.  ; The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success?    > E > No one but us fanatics already have (or have access to) VMS-capable I > hardware. So, you're looking at eBay where hardware may come cheap, but H > shipping costs can still be prohibitive for many would-be hobbyists onH > the larger systems (2100s, 4100s, ES4xs, etc.) or even "desktop" class; > machines like -AUs, 200s, 250s, 255s, XP1000, DS1xs, etc.   E And, remember one thing.  Every system that falls into the hands of a J hobbyist is a business system no longer being used for business.  Probably a paying VMS customer lost.    > H > Most of us in this forum do have our own internet access; however, theG > operating software is not freely downloadable. At a minimum, you must H > already have access to the media, or order the $35 kit from Montagar -J > and even that doesn't get you access to media for the commercial layered, > products included in the hobbyist program. > I > You do still need license PAKs where required, but those are accessible ! > at no additional monetary cost.  > J > All that said, there is actually enough free software floating around toF > build a VMS-based web / e-mail / datbase server once you conquer the$ > hardware/o.s. acquisition hurdles. > I > So, if you *DO* know how to get VMS-capable hardware for "free", by all  > means: expound profusely.    H Be careful what you ask for......  Like I said above, every new hobbyistE system stands a very strong chance of being a lost VMS customer.  And E even if HP won't admit it (the infamous perpetual 411,000 systems) it 6 is eroding the number of serious systems still in use.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 02:56:00 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <435p20F1lh987U1@individual.net>  + In article <43CDAD5F.1DD7D24E@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  . >> In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>,? >>         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> > [snip] L >> > So, if you *DO* know how to get VMS-capable hardware for "free", by all >> > means: expound profusely. >>  K >> Be careful what you ask for......  Like I said above, every new hobbyist H >> system stands a very strong chance of being a lost VMS customer.  AndH >> even if HP won't admit it (the infamous perpetual 411,000 systems) it9 >> is eroding the number of serious systems still in use.  > H > Well, yes and no. In some cases, smaller systems get replaced by newerJ > and/or larger systems. That sometimes frees up DS10s, AlphaStations, andB > so on. So, not *ALWAYS* the case, though perhaps too often such. > G > BTW: I've never paid for a VAXstation or MicroVAX, either. I paid for > > one AlphaStation and acquired a Jensen and an Alpha Multia.   D I've never paid for an Alpha (except, I guess, for the gas to go getC one, once) either.  And I don;t kow anyone who actually paid for an B Itanium. :-)  (OK, I have only seen one, but it wasn't purchased.)   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:00:23 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 0 Message-ID: <11srmc15e5mu34b@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 7 > In article <43CD5C45.4A22065E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ) > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   >  > 1 >>Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  >>I >>>However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE,  >>>why hasn't VMS taken off?   >> >>one word:  >>? >><font size=500 attribute="BOLD,BLINK,UNDERLINE,REVERSE_VIDEO, - >>DOUBLE_WIDTH, DOUBLE_HEIGHT", COLOUR="RED">  >> >> >>	M A R K E T I N G >  > F > While marketing might have helped, and Palmer certainly did hurt, I J > don't think the only reason is lack of marketing.  Linux didn't succeed : > because of marketing, it succeeded because it was cheap.  C If that's the major reason, then why didn't the other, prior, free  0 Operating Systems succeed?  FreeBSD for example?  B Linux is where it is today mainly because of something similar to D marketing.  It was perceived to be 'cute' and 'whatever' and it was  pushed at people.   L IBM jumped on Linux, most likely to counter Microsoft, and that meant a lot.   > I still think H > that, though VMS can't really compete with linux there and shouldn't, F > one should think about some sort of entry-level commercial license, J > perhaps without support.  As long as it wouldn't take away revenue from 9 > existing customers, I don't see why HP shouldn't do it.   G Ah, reasonably priced VMS for the smaller customers.  It's headed that  ? way, but still is not low enough for the desktop.  Actually, I  E personally think that the current offerings are reasonable.  Too bad  2 that the potential repeat customers are long gone.  H >>This is why the announcement that VMS is to be ported to the 8086 willE >>invigotrate VMS because that will make teh news and be a very clear G >>message that HP intends VMS to be maintream and not relegated to some I >>obscrure platform and niche market. Going onto the 8086 would instantly H >>make VMS available on the full range of industry standard computers atE >>very litle cost compared to developping low volume specialised IA64  >>thing laptops, desktops etc. >  > I > Yes, but if the license costs 10 times what the hardware does, I don't  + > see it being a winner in the marketplace.  >   : Check on the current licenses before you make such claims.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 21:36:42 -0800; From: "vmsmangler@earthlink.net" <vmsmangler@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches C Message-ID: <1137562601.988112.179400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Good news and bad news. The good news is the Belkin KVM switch arrivedE today. The bad news is this: it works with my DPW500au but fails with 
 the DPW433au.   = After further testing I found out that this Belkin KVM switch C (F1DJ102P) passes every keystroke through to the 500. This includes D F6-F20 plus all keys from the main keyboard, the center keyboard andG the 10key pad even including PF1-PF4. During boot there are no keyboard : test failures of any kind. Again, this in on the DPW500au.  C On the other hand, the DPW433au fails keyboard test 4 several times ? during boot. And the, just before VMS begins to startup (before C sylogicals.com is invoked) there is the error message that scancode  0xfa is not supported.  G Further analysis reveals the 433 does not have USB connectors. Not even D aluminum foil tape over where the connectors would be. But the 500au> does have the aluminum tape. This tells me the firmware in the? superchip that supports the keyhboard, mouse and floppy disk is  different in these 2 machines.  F Alas, I am out of luck. I will be calling Belkin in the morning to see0 about returning the switch and the power supply.  ; Hope this information is helpful to readers of comp.os.vms.   
 Bill LaCounte  Retired VMS Systems Manager    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:35:34 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: LK463+ Message-ID: <dqjgu6$gu3$1@news01.intel.com>    dittman@dittman.net wrote:> > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:E >> In article <2H0yf.511$sq.96@trnddc01>, dittman@dittman.net writes: J >>> I just bought an LK463 and am working to create a new keyboard map forF >>> OS X.  To do this I need a complete list of the keycodes since the( >>> current keymaps don't pass them all. >>> I >>> Does anyone have a complete list they could send me?  Once I have the G >>> new keyboard map finished I'll put it online for interested parties  >>> to download. > J >>    If you bring up X11 (Apple's current server for OS X is pretty good)H >>    and run somthing like xev, you can read off the keycodes yourself. > N > I tried that already and apparently OS X doesn't pass on keycodes it doesn't > know.   @ I don't have a solution, but an observation.  The LK463 is a USBA keyboard.  In principle, USB is "universal" and all the key codes + sent should be received by the host system.   @ What a coworker and I discovered is that under Windows XP, there? are several keys the Windows system, or the application running B under Windows, just doesn't "see", e.g., Do and Help, IIRC...there may well be others.   C My coworker spent some time with the Attachmate(?) folks using some @ diagnostic under KEAterm (which "saw" more of the keys than doesC Exceed) and they concluded that there simply was nothing being sent A by the keyboard for those keys.  I'm almost certain that's wrong, D but it may very well be the case that the Windows USB driver for theD keyboard is "swallowing" things it doesn't recognize and not sendingC them onto the application.  This key works, as reported by Fred K., : on VMS-supported USB equipment, e.g., the Itanium systems.  C You may very well be between a rock and a hard place with your Mac. B This keyboard works with Windows if and only if I use the supplied5 USB <-> PS/2 adapter, but I do Mac's have PS/2 ports?   B The other possiblity/necessity would be to modify the USB keyboard@ driver for the Mac.  I have no idea how one would go about doing! that or where to find the source!   B If you need the X-windows key codes and key symbols produced under? DECwindows/Motif native on a DPW, I can probably provide those, 7 but I expect your problem is much more basic than that.    	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:32:04 -0500 4 From: Forrest Kenney <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com> Subject: Re: LK463* Message-ID: <43CD8C83.47577913@hp_dot.com>  E     I don't have the specification for the LK463 at hand but it sends B no unique key codes.  Every key code needed already existed in the7 USB Human Interface Device specification for keyboards.   B     In PS2 mode the LK463 sends exactly the same data at the otherD LK4XX keyboards.  So if the applications are not seeing the keycodes; it is because Windows or OS-X are not passing them through.      Forrest Kenney OpenVMS    Ken Fairfield wrote:   > dittman@dittman.net wrote:@ > > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:G > >> In article <2H0yf.511$sq.96@trnddc01>, dittman@dittman.net writes: L > >>> I just bought an LK463 and am working to create a new keyboard map forH > >>> OS X.  To do this I need a complete list of the keycodes since the* > >>> current keymaps don't pass them all. > >>> K > >>> Does anyone have a complete list they could send me?  Once I have the I > >>> new keyboard map finished I'll put it online for interested parties  > >>> to download. > > L > >>    If you bring up X11 (Apple's current server for OS X is pretty good)J > >>    and run somthing like xev, you can read off the keycodes yourself. > > P > > I tried that already and apparently OS X doesn't pass on keycodes it doesn't	 > > know.  > B > I don't have a solution, but an observation.  The LK463 is a USBC > keyboard.  In principle, USB is "universal" and all the key codes - > sent should be received by the host system.  > B > What a coworker and I discovered is that under Windows XP, thereA > are several keys the Windows system, or the application running D > under Windows, just doesn't "see", e.g., Do and Help, IIRC...there > may well be others.  > E > My coworker spent some time with the Attachmate(?) folks using some B > diagnostic under KEAterm (which "saw" more of the keys than doesE > Exceed) and they concluded that there simply was nothing being sent C > by the keyboard for those keys.  I'm almost certain that's wrong, F > but it may very well be the case that the Windows USB driver for theF > keyboard is "swallowing" things it doesn't recognize and not sendingE > them onto the application.  This key works, as reported by Fred K., < > on VMS-supported USB equipment, e.g., the Itanium systems. > E > You may very well be between a rock and a hard place with your Mac. D > This keyboard works with Windows if and only if I use the supplied7 > USB <-> PS/2 adapter, but I do Mac's have PS/2 ports?  > D > The other possiblity/necessity would be to modify the USB keyboardB > driver for the Mac.  I have no idea how one would go about doing# > that or where to find the source!  > D > If you need the X-windows key codes and key symbols produced underA > DECwindows/Motif native on a DPW, I can probably provide those, 9 > but I expect your problem is much more basic than that.  >  >         -Ken > --8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >  > Ken Fairfield # > D1C Automation VMS System Support $ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:38:12 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: Open VMS programing in C , Message-ID: <43CD55AB.15C6FBC6@teksavvy.com>  " "SanthoshfromJay@gmail.com" wrote: > H > I tried all  the resources ( book shops  and Internet )  for a book orF > material for VMS programing in C .  The hp doceumentations  "OpenVMSF > Programming Concepts Manual " , "Compaq C Run-Time Library ReferenceI > Manual for OpenVMS Systems "  and " Compaq C Run-Time Library Utilities 5 > Reference Manual "  does not  suite for a beginer .     F VMS uses very structured stuctures as arguments to many system calls. C The concepts manuals shoudl provide you with a goo ddescription of  - 	DESCRIPTORS (to pass strings back and forth) D 	ITEM LISTS  (to pass variable number of stuff as a single argument)   (there are a few others).    Also:   D DIR SYS$EXAMPLES:*.C will get you quite a bit of help. You  can alsoB browse down to subdirectories that include many more examples in C# (including the TCPIP subdirectory).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:57:06 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> O Subject: Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-Directories , Message-ID: <43CD5A19.40D065DF@teksavvy.com>   William Webb wrote: B > The only foolproof way I can think of would be to burn it to CD.  M Or dedicate a disk to that data and MOUNT/SYSTEM/NOWRITE disk: volume logical   C Thsi way, you are sure that nobody, not even the system manager can D accidentally change the contents even with all privileges on.  (theyD could still dismount and remount it , or I assume there must be some: obscure $QIO calls they can make to write specific blocks.  F Another way is to print every file after it has been modified, archiveG it in a secure room and hope your wife doesn't catch the archive person F and coerce him into giving her the access card so she can retrieve the( records she suspects have been modified.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:26:45 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> O Subject: Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-Directories 0 Message-ID: <11sqrp9fd7p7ifa@corp.supernews.com>   William Webb wrote: K > On 16 Jan 2006 20:52:29 -0800, Shawn M. <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> wrote:  > 	 >>Hi All,  >>E >>What would be the best way to assign read-only permissions to a top 4 >>level directory and all sub-directories and files. >>F >>I have a user who has copied all their data to an existing directory/ >>and wants it read only so no deletions occur.  >>0 >>I am running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha Server. >> >>Thanks >>Shawn  >> >> >  > M > The problem with most idiotproofing is the astonishing ingenuity of idiots.  > B > The only foolproof way I can think of would be to burn it to CD. > = > Although if you wanted to be mean you could put it on tape, / > write-protect the tape and mount it Files-11.  >  > : ^ )   J The US Surpreme Court has ruled against cruel and unusual punishment.  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:04:46 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header + Message-ID: <43CD5BEE.6F89100A@comcast.net>    warren sander wrote: > @ > two carriage returns are needed for all http protocal messages > * > <junezheng@eastlink.ca> wrote in message? > news:1137428539.442285.167160@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... I > > After I migrate from CSWS1.3 to sws2.1 on OPENVMS 8.2, all my DCL CGI J > > scripts that uses "location: " header to redir to another URL run into* > > Premature end of script headers error. > > J > > I found out that I have to output an extra blank line after the header > > to make my scripts work. > > , > > Test script jy.com (that does not work):I > > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "location: http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com"  > > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" > > " > > Test script jy.com(that works)I > > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "location: http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com"  > > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" > > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" > > # > > Test script jy.prl (that works) B > > print "location: http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com\n\n";  7 So, the DCL "fix" would be something along these lines?    $ CR[0,8] = 13< $ TEXT = "location: http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com". $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FAO( "!AS!AS", TEXT, CR )   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 15:28:02 -0800 From: junezheng@eastlink.ca 3 Subject: Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header A Message-ID: <1137540482.033734.8880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F What puzzles me is that the DCL command "write" itself already outputsG one CRLF. All we need is one extra CRLF. However, it seems not the case  for SWS2.1.   	 Test1.com  $ CRLF=F$FAO("!/")< $ TEXT = "location: http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT TEXT+CRLF9 Above test case works on CSWS1.3 and OSU, but not SWS2.1. E If @TEST1.COM, we will see one blank line followed by location: line. # That is all http protocal requires.   	 Test2.com  $ CRLF=F$FAO("!/")< $ TEXT = "location: http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com"! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT TEXT+CRLF+CRLF @ This works on SWS2.1. If @Test2.com, we will see two blank lines follow.   E June Young, Software Development                   bus: (902)422-1973  x144B Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St.,      fax: (902)421-12676 Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada           mailto: JYo...@dymaxion.ca   http://www.dymaxion.ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:46:49 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header + Message-ID: <43CDAC18.83CA8A7C@comcast.net>    junezheng@eastlink.ca wrote: > H > What puzzles me is that the DCL command "write" itself already outputsI > one CRLF. All we need is one extra CRLF. However, it seems not the case 
 > for SWS2.1.    Ooohhh... Careful there!  H $ WRITE to a terminal class device may indeed send a <CR><LF> pair. Such; might not be the case for a mailbox device, disk file, etc.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:09:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Technical Journal - Jan 06 Issue , Message-ID: <43CD5D0A.97B3AC5D@teksavvy.com>   warren sander wrote: >  > it's actually  > F > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v7/fake_rtl_com.txt and is >  > also included in the article    G Thanks. As a suggestion, the article and the com file should be sent to A the VMS Freeware person to be included in the next freeware, as a D persistant resource. (the technical journals are not as obvious when* searching for something when you need it).   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2006 15:31:41 -0800* From: "Brice Buchanan" <BriceBu@gmail.com>5 Subject: Re: VMS TCPIP NFS (novice filesystem sharer) B Message-ID: <1137540701.601919.93640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  K > Do you have the required services started?  You will need the NFS Server, A > Portmapper, and for the PC to access VMS, you also need PC-NFS.   
 Well, yeah...   * It clearly is a problem with the services.  E I can start them, but they won't stay started. I can enable them, but " they won't stay enabled. It's odd.  B Yes, they've been enabled and started via the TCPIP$CONFIG script.  G Yes, I've entered ENABLE SERVICE commands, as well as SET CONFIG ENABLE / SERVICE commands, for all services in question.   1 When I start up NFS, everything appears to be ok.   F However, I don't see the desired processes when I SHOW SYS. And when IE shut down NFS, I'm told the Mount service has already been stopped...  hmmm.   F Nor can I seem to get them to be permanently enabled. No matter what IB do, they show as disabled when do SHOW SERVICE. That goes for NFS,$ MOUNT, PCNFS, LOCKD, and PORTMAPPER.  2 I'll have to turn on REPLY and see what I can see.  & Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.035 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                        e]Ock]e1alHN]X`[kNB7O74:	t^s#g)0qA֚ԯ{@<3ZxiZ`nw#Tp҇:Jqܣ̏Ǌ4O9Uj8=(xp+\8z^B5A[@5vz}SSYݏGV39PE%UJ^kbS	&)
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