0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Jan 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 36      Contents:0 Re: Anyone have a 3520 (firefox) kb/mouse cable? Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.  Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.  Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.  Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS. 9 Controlling "Smart array 5300A" RAID controller from VMS? ( Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks!( Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks!( Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks!" Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! 1 Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux! $ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches	 Re: LK463 	 Re: LK463 * Re: looking for Force Flexor A264/500 docsF Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-DirectoriesF Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-Directories* Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header= sws2.1 with mod_perl, exit() after $query->redirect() problem   Re: UNIX shm* functions for VMS?, Re: VMS TCPIP NFS (novice filesystem sharer)9 Webware application server, new release and demonstration   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 06:11:30 -0800. From: "Dan  Williams" <williams.dan@gmail.com>9 Subject: Re: Anyone have a 3520 (firefox) kb/mouse cable? C Message-ID: <1137593489.998846.319110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   E I thought I sent you an ebay link for this a couple of months ago. It " was about $10 did you not get it ?   Dan    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 05:57:52 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>   Subject: Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.C Message-ID: <1137592672.613470.153840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Mister Q wrote: F > I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intendedG > for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from the E > integral IDE CD. As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it. I have I > some RRD43's and RRD45's floating around, but am getting confused about @ > the right. Adapter to use (and ultimately the right cable(s)). > D > There were several KZ SCSI Adaptors, but these are rare as rockingH > horse .... nowadays, so getting the adaptec equivalent is probably theD > best approach. Does anyone have a "mapping" of DEC part numbers of > Adaptec equivalents?B > ie.e KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPSC, KZPBA, KZPDA, KZPSM, and which is most > suitable for CD's. > H > cable Wise, most every CDRom (SCSI) that I have seen has a 50 pin bergI > on the back, so I am guessing that a 50pin berg to 50 pin berg cable is E > the best bet? What happens about SCSI termination? (DB25's, Honda's . > VHDCI's etc - What a rats nest of options... > A > The other options is getting a CD-RW drive, and plugging it in, B > allowing CDRECORD to do  its thang... Any comments on compatibleH > CDRW's, and what to watch out for... Or at least something faster than* > the 4x RRD45's I have floating around... >  >  > q   C Any DEC SCSI card with a 50-pin SCSI-I connector will do.  You will E want to boot from the CD drive for installation so I think you'd best D stick with the DEC adapters.  Once VMS is running there are a coupleG Adaptec cards which have drivers but I doubt they are bootable.  I have F a picked up a number of KZPBA-CA's on Ebay for less than $20 and theseE work fine.  They are the QLogic cards based on the ISP1040 chip.  You G may already have one in your PWS connected to whatever SCSI disk drives D are there.  If so then you can use a normal 50-pin cable.  Just makeD sure that if you have internal disk drives attached to the card thatF you don't use the external port.  These cards can not handle all threeD ports in use at once.  It's a combination of any two.  The cards areG designed so that the SCSI wide devices won't be slowed down by the SCSI G narrow devices.  Usually the DEC supplied cable had a terminator at the @ end.  What you will have to do is turn on the termination on the	 CD-drive.   C For CD drives you can use the RRD's that you have or look about for ? something faster.  The DEC RRD46 is a slightly modified Toshiba B XM-5701B (12x) and the RRD47 (32x) is a modified Toshiba XM-6201B.G Either Toshiba can be found on Ebay for less than $20 if you look for a > bit.  I have some that were Sun OEM's and they work well also.  F For a CD-R drive I have heard the Plexor Plexiwriters work well thoughF I have not tried any.  I have used several Yamaha drives (CRW8824s andE currently a CRW2100s).  For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:58:58 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.I Message-ID: <8660a3a10601180658s7373b6ecic40ddeb038acf4c9@mail.gmail.com>   D On 17 Jan 2006 22:15:10 -0800, Mister Q <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote:F > I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intendedG > for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from the E > integral IDE CD. As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it. I have I > some RRD43's and RRD45's floating around, but am getting confused about @ > the right. Adapter to use (and ultimately the right cable(s)). > D > There were several KZ SCSI Adaptors, but these are rare as rockingH > horse .... nowadays, so getting the adaptec equivalent is probably theD > best approach. Does anyone have a "mapping" of DEC part numbers of > Adaptec equivalents?B > ie.e KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPSC, KZPBA, KZPDA, KZPSM, and which is most > suitable for CD's. >   / KZPBA is your best bet and they *are* findable.   E VMS doesn't care much for generic Adaptecs- at least the ones I tried  a few years back.   A Anything that's Qlogic 10x0-based is a good bet, even if it's not  Digital-branded.  H > cable Wise, most every CDRom (SCSI) that I have seen has a 50 pin bergI > on the back, so I am guessing that a 50pin berg to 50 pin berg cable is E > the best bet? What happens about SCSI termination? (DB25's, Honda's . > VHDCI's etc - What a rats nest of options...  L Depends upon how you're cabling and what's on the chain and how it's config= ured.   2 Remember, neither S in SCSI stands for "standard".   WWWebb   > A > The other options is getting a CD-RW drive, and plugging it in, B > allowing CDRECORD to do  its thang... Any comments on compatibleH > CDRW's, and what to watch out for... Or at least something faster than* > the 4x RRD45's I have floating around... >  >  > q  >  >    --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 16:39:57 +0100C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)   Subject: Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.2 Message-ID: <43ce614d$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de>  I In article <8660a3a10601180658s7373b6ecic40ddeb038acf4c9@mail.gmail.com>, / William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: E >On 17 Jan 2006 22:15:10 -0800, Mister Q <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote: G >> I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intended H >> for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from theF >> integral IDE CD. As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it. I haveJ >> some RRD43's and RRD45's floating around, but am getting confused aboutA >> the right. Adapter to use (and ultimately the right cable(s)).  >>E >> There were several KZ SCSI Adaptors, but these are rare as rocking I >> horse .... nowadays, so getting the adaptec equivalent is probably the E >> best approach. Does anyone have a "mapping" of DEC part numbers of  >> Adaptec equivalents? C >> ie.e KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPSC, KZPBA, KZPDA, KZPSM, and which is most  >> suitable for CD's.  >> > 0 >KZPBA is your best bet and they *are* findable. > F >VMS doesn't care much for generic Adaptecs- at least the ones I tried >a few years back. > B >Anything that's Qlogic 10x0-based is a good bet, even if it's not >Digital-branded.  > I >> cable Wise, most every CDRom (SCSI) that I have seen has a 50 pin berg J >> on the back, so I am guessing that a 50pin berg to 50 pin berg cable isF >> the best bet? What happens about SCSI termination? (DB25's, Honda's/ >> VHDCI's etc - What a rats nest of options...  > E >Depends upon how you're cabling and what's on the chain and how it's  >config= >ured. > 3 >Remember, neither S in SCSI stands for "standard".  >  >WWWebb  >    No, that's wrong:   & SCSI = Small Computer System Interface  = So all computer with a SCSI interface are small computers ...    eberhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:40:44 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.H Message-ID: <8660a3a10601180840p119d783ci5a4c265aa179716@mail.gmail.com>  6 On 18 Jan 2006 16:39:57 +0100, Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann, <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote: > K > In article <8660a3a10601180658s7373b6ecic40ddeb038acf4c9@mail.gmail.com>, 1 > William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: G > >On 17 Jan 2006 22:15:10 -0800, Mister Q <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote: I > >> I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intended J > >> for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from theH > >> integral IDE CD. As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it. I haveL > >> some RRD43's and RRD45's floating around, but am getting confused abou= t C > >> the right. Adapter to use (and ultimately the right cable(s)).  > >>G > >> There were several KZ SCSI Adaptors, but these are rare as rocking K > >> horse .... nowadays, so getting the adaptec equivalent is probably the G > >> best approach. Does anyone have a "mapping" of DEC part numbers of  > >> Adaptec equivalents? E > >> ie.e KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPSC, KZPBA, KZPDA, KZPSM, and which is most  > >> suitable for CD's.  > >> > > 2 > >KZPBA is your best bet and they *are* findable. > > H > >VMS doesn't care much for generic Adaptecs- at least the ones I tried > >a few years back. > > D > >Anything that's Qlogic 10x0-based is a good bet, even if it's not > >Digital-branded.  > > K > >> cable Wise, most every CDRom (SCSI) that I have seen has a 50 pin berg L > >> on the back, so I am guessing that a 50pin berg to 50 pin berg cable i= s H > >> the best bet? What happens about SCSI termination? (DB25's, Honda's1 > >> VHDCI's etc - What a rats nest of options...  > > G > >Depends upon how you're cabling and what's on the chain and how it's  > >config=3D > >ured. > > 5 > >Remember, neither S in SCSI stands for "standard".  > > 	 > >WWWebb  > >  >  > No, that's wrong:  > * > SCSI =3D Small Computer System Interface > ? > So all computer with a SCSI interface are small computers ...  > 
 > eberhard >   
 Literally-   "Small" !=3D "Standard"  "System" !=3D "Standard"   Cheers,    WWWebb --  C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 17:56:49 GMT7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) B Subject: Controlling "Smart array 5300A" RAID controller from VMS?% Message-ID: <2006Jan18.175649@hujicc>    Hello,  M   I got today a new DS-25 with a "Smart Array 5300A" RAID controller. I would N like to have a simple method to know its status (like the old SEXCRMGR for theJ KZPAx controllers). As far as I can see I have to install WEB server, SNMPB server, etc. Is there a simple way like the old SWXCEMGR software?  <                                            Thanks! __Yehavi:   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:08:16 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>1 Subject: Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! = Message-ID: <ksozf.152680$vl2.3782@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >>I >>>I emailed and talked to head of manufacturing ... you can call them at  >>>various numbers at  >>+ >>Bob, nobody wants VMS on that IA64 thing.  >  > ( > I don't know as I'd go quite that far. > J > x86-64 is generally acknowledged (even by me) as not being able to scale# > as big as I64 systems need to be.   H Hmm, IBM's benchmark figures show their own 32-way SMP X86-64 beating a I 32-way HP Itanium Superdome. And there's no magic reason you can't scale  F beyond that. The IBM system also has all of the big iron features you  might want.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:42:19 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 1 Subject: Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1801060642200001@user-uinj4c0.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <43CD5A91.75BBC77B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  >>  I >> I emailed and talked to head of manufacturing ... you can call them at  >> various numbers at  > + >Bob, nobody wants VMS on that IA64 thing.    @ Another delusion/exaggeration from the JF Mezei thing.  Accuracy/ comparable to most of the other stuff he posts.   G Quite a few people must want VMS on Itanium, since they are buying it.  F (Since Mark Hurd started eliminated unnecessary spending, we no longer0 have guns to hold to their heads to force them.)  N What the JF Mezei thing probably means is that HE doesn't want VMS on Itanium.   >It was an architecture F >inflicted on us. If we are to drop Alpha, we might as well go for the7 >real low cost, commodity industry standard, the 8086,    P Let us know when you finish implementing VMS on the 8086.  I hope it sells well.  J By the way, where do you plan to obtain 8086 CPUs?  I didn't realize IntelA was still making them.  Or are you going to salvage them from old ) computers that you dig out of landfills?     >at which point you E >don't have to beg for any size machine, from handheld to datacentre, & >giving VMS back its true scalability.  I Bob's idea about an Itanium laptop is probably more practical.  The power J and heat constraints are pretty terrible, but I expect Intel will continueJ to improve Itanium's power envelope.  Maybe someday someone will design an Itanium laptop.   H Intel is much less likely to re-start manufacture of 8086 CPUs.  I doubtF they could even find all the design documents, and they probably don't0 have a factory that could make an 8086 any more.  I But maybe if the JF Mezei thing wishes REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hard, Intel H will build a factory and manufacture a bunch of 8086 chips just for him.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 14:19:16 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1 Subject: Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! , Message-ID: <437134F1lgm57U3@individual.net>  L In article <rdeininger-1801060642200001@user-uinj4c0.dialup.mindspring.com>,8 	rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:7 > In article <43CD5A91.75BBC77B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >  >>bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >>> J >>> I emailed and talked to head of manufacturing ... you can call them at >>> various numbers at >>, >>Bob, nobody wants VMS on that IA64 thing.  > B > Another delusion/exaggeration from the JF Mezei thing.  Accuracy1 > comparable to most of the other stuff he posts.  > I > Quite a few people must want VMS on Itanium, since they are buying it.    - Don't confuse having no choice with wanting!!   H > (Since Mark Hurd started eliminated unnecessary spending, we no longer2 > have guns to hold to their heads to force them.)  D For many, VMS is more than enough of an incentive, no gun necessary.   > P > What the JF Mezei thing probably means is that HE doesn't want VMS on Itanium.  D I think it is safe to say that if development of Alpha had continuedI no one would be buying VMS on Itanium today or any time in the forseeable 	 future.      >  >>It was an architectureG >>inflicted on us. If we are to drop Alpha, we might as well go for the 8 >>real low cost, commodity industry standard, the 8086,  > R > Let us know when you finish implementing VMS on the 8086.  I hope it sells well. > L > By the way, where do you plan to obtain 8086 CPUs?  I didn't realize IntelC > was still making them.  Or are you going to salvage them from old + > computers that you dig out of landfills?    G Don't waste your time.  I pointed out the dearth of 8086 chips (and the G rather short list of features it had) but no one seesm to have noticed.    >  >>at which point youF >>don't have to beg for any size machine, from handheld to datacentre,' >>giving VMS back its true scalability.  > K > Bob's idea about an Itanium laptop is probably more practical.  The power L > and heat constraints are pretty terrible, but I expect Intel will continueL > to improve Itanium's power envelope.  Maybe someday someone will design an > Itanium laptop.   F Seriously, I can not think if any practical reason for having VMS on aF laptop beyond some kind of bragging rights.  Just like I have tried toG point out lately that there is really no reason for VMS on the desktop. C It is the functionality of VMS that people want and it doesn't take D big iron on your desktop to get that.  All it takes are desktop apps on VMS.    > J > Intel is much less likely to re-start manufacture of 8086 CPUs.  I doubtH > they could even find all the design documents, and they probably don't2 > have a factory that could make an 8086 any more. > K > But maybe if the JF Mezei thing wishes REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hard, Intel J > will build a factory and manufacture a bunch of 8086 chips just for him.  F Well, in that case, when can I expect to see VMS on my M68K or even on my venerable Z80!!  :-)    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 08:48:40 -0800+ From: "Lee Morgan" <leemorgan@ntlworld.com> + Subject: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File C Message-ID: <1137602920.785632.159380@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi  D Is anybody aware of a proven way to extract the full contents of the@ SYSUAF file into a 'sortable' csv file so that I can interrogate$ specific users' / searches in excel?  & Any help would be greatly appreciated.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 13:22:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!, Message-ID: <436to5F1iv9r7U1@individual.net>  C In article <1137563654.203599.179050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  	davidc@montagar.com writes:? >> The advantages of VMS are not that important on the desktop.  > 8 > That statement pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it. > Q >>To put it an other way:  If you what high availability on the desktop, then you J >>should put your files on a reliable server, e.g., a VMS server, but yourH >>desktop may be cheap because you can simply switch to a new machine if$ > t>he one you are working at fails. > H > I agree.  And that's where you see OpenVMS, on the reliable server not > the cheap desktop.  D Yes, but that doesn't preclude having desktop applications availableI on the server to use on the desktop.  Xwindows is free for that commodity F PC  on your desk.  But VMS lacks any appliactions to leverage it.  YouB don't need VMS on the desktop in order to use VMS all the way from2 server to desktop.  You do need that applications.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 07:35:18 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!3 Message-ID: <a$YHlp1ynosZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <43cd8062$0$78286$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  > davidc@montagar.com wrote: > E > The advantages of VMS are not that important on the desktop.  If a  J > desktop fails, you simply continue to work on an other machine.  To put  > it an other way:  F    What do you do when all your Windows desktops are down for a virus?   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 14:27:57 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!, Message-ID: <4371jdF1lgm57U5@individual.net>  3 In article <a$YHlp1ynosZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:m > In article <43cd8062$0$78286$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  >> davidc@montagar.com wrote:  >>  F >> The advantages of VMS are not that important on the desktop.  If a K >> desktop fails, you simply continue to work on an other machine.  To put   >> it an other way:  > H >    What do you do when all your Windows desktops are down for a virus?  G I have a lab accross the hall that is full of Windows PC's and the user G base is all students.  I haven't had a virus in that lab since the days E of Windows98.  And if I did, I can completely reload the whole lab in J about 30 minutes (Some machines slower, some faster they are all different
 vintages.)  F When the windows box is just a terminal to get you to the machine withG the real applications on it, you can do minimal installs, ghost backups F and real fast repair.  Of course, if they are really just terminals toG access your VMS system, there is no reason why they would need any form F of connectivity beyond the server they run their applications from and@ that pretty much eliminates any chance of them getting infected.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:30:45 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>: Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!, Message-ID: <4371omF1ll7gvU1@individual.net>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > J > When I installed Windows on the computer, I am writing this from, I did E > not have an Internet connection.  So I phoned Microsoft to get the  C > license number that is to be typed into the computer.  It was an  H > automatic phone system, that was reading the number faster than I can E > type (at least with a phone in one hand.)  I had to write down the  A > number on a piece of paper before typing it in.  It was a pain.   I But surely you *want* to write the key down and store it in a safe place?    I know I would.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 09:38:37 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com : Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!C Message-ID: <1137605917.835725.104300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E >Yes, but that doesn't preclude having desktop applications available % >on the server to use on the desktop.   < True, that's why there are movements to port OpenOffice (seeC http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org) and other apps to OpenVMS.  However, = according to Ton at oooovms, the response hasn't been exactly D overwhelming.  If desktop apps on OpenVMS are important to you, then please get involved.  D Of course, I'm old-school and use command line utilities most of theB time on LInux and OpenVMS, except for Windows, which doesn't often provide me any other option.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:30:12 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply): Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!$ Message-ID: <dqm1fk$deq$1@online.de>  C In article <1137536080.764367.134690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  davidc@montagar.com writes:   I > I was talking with Jesse Lipcon some time ago, and he correctly pointed I > out that the ONLY difference between a SERVER and a WORKSTATION was the  > addition of a graphics card.  G From one point of view, yes.  Traditionally, servers have been bigger,  I had more slots etc.  However, these days many servers don't need all the  = traditional extras, and many workstations are run as servers.   C These days, there are servers which are smaller than a traditional  I workstation, since memory is smaller and disks can be connected via some  E sort of network.  So, these days, all that's really needed to have a  H workstation is to support a graphics card and make that available as an  option in a small server.   F > The point?  Making a workstation is trivial by tossing in a graphicsG > card on a free PCI slot.  The challenge?  Does the market want it bad G > enough to make it a product.  Unfortunately, even though a few people H > here will disagree, there is no mass market demand for large groups of> > VMS software guys to have VMS workstations on their desks.    : Probably because there aren't that many VMS software guys.  > > The other complaint some make that they need to make the VMSI > workstations only cost $200 or some low-ball figure.  Where do you guys B > get that number?  Cause it's cheaper than a $279 Frye's LinspireC > Desktop?  You want the relaibility and robustness of OpenVMS, but H > expect to put it on the cheapest commodity hardware available that MAYH > not even work with LInux or Windows with "reliability and robostness"?D > What's up with that?  The premier O/S running on the cheapest crap; > hardware?  Why do you think you could trust that to work?   8 I agree completely.  You get, at most, what you pay for.  C > OpenVMS software and hardware will likely never been cheaper that F > Windows and LInux hardware/software.  Why?  Because it's BETTER thanG > that, and sometimes you have to pay a little more for quality.  After I > all, almost EVERY sample disk unit tested by StorageWorks FAILED due to F > firmware bugs found by the SW team - and required to be fixed beforeD > shipment to OpenVMS customers.  The failed drives?  Probably on M$& > systems.  You really want them back?   I agree completely.   G > The premise seems to be that the success of OpenVMS is dependent upon G > its success on the desktop?  Why is that?  The success of OpenVMS has G > never been due to the desktop, so why should it's future be tied that H > that now?  After all, Windows is still struggling to get into the dataI > center.  Would the converse be that until Windows kills their GUI, they ( > will never succeed in the server farm?  G When a small company develops and implements software for VMS, there is H a need to be able to run it on a wide range of machines, simply because,; for development and testing, big machines are too expensive @ (electricity, license and maintenance costs).  Depending on the I application, maybe small machines are all that are needed, so especially  D when the traditional differences between workstation and server are D disappearing, there should be VMS on a wide range of machines.  Not D necessarily workstations, but the extra effort is small compared to  being able to have them.  D Yes, VMS is still here, but 15 years ago it was much more prevalent.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 18:34:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: HP, read this about demand for desktop linux!, Message-ID: <437g28F1m0qk1U1@individual.net>  C In article <1137605917.835725.104300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  	davidc@montagar.com writes:F >>Yes, but that doesn't preclude having desktop applications available& >>on the server to use on the desktop. > > > True, that's why there are movements to port OpenOffice (see= > http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org) and other apps to OpenVMS.     @ I am aware of the work being done, but, while nice, this work is? somewhat premature.  What is needed is a decent POSIX API and a ? current version of X11.  Both of these need to come from HP and  not the OpenSource Community.   D >                                                           However,? > according to Ton at oooovms, the response hasn't been exactly F > overwhelming.  If desktop apps on OpenVMS are important to you, then > please get involved.  F Actually, they are important to HP and the VMS user community.  UnlessH these parties no longer care about the survival of VMS and are satisfiedD with letting it slip into a smaller and smaller nich market until it just fades away entirely.    > F > Of course, I'm old-school and use command line utilities most of theD > time on LInux and OpenVMS, except for Windows, which doesn't often > provide me any other option. >   H Actually, I do a number of Windows tasks (like adding new user accounts)( on my 2000 Server from a telnet session.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:29:10 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! = Message-ID: <43ce0a60$0$67264$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:L > And here, I have to disagree with you.  {Free|Net|Open}BSD are technicallyH > superior to Linux.  On a x86 platform FreeBSD is noticably better thanJ > Linux.  And yet, which one is more popular?  Why?  Simple.  When was theJ > last time you saw any mention of FreeBSD in the trade press?  And Linux?K > Where can you buy "The FreeBSD Journal"?  And "The Linux Journal"?  Linux ? > is hyped way more than any of the BSD's and that's MARKETING.   A As far as I remember *BSD was caught in a legal battle about the  F copyright of the source when free software was starting to get out of H the academic world.  That made people stay away from *BSD, because they H where afraid to lose the right to run their machines and perhabs having E to pay to AT&T at a later date.  When that battle was over Linux was  / already so big that *BSD did not have a chance.   H The *BSD vs Linux battle demonstrates how important it is not be caught ' up in a legal battle at the wrong time.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 13:57:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <436vquF1lgm57U1@individual.net>  = In article <43ce0a60$0$67264$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, . 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:M >> And here, I have to disagree with you.  {Free|Net|Open}BSD are technically I >> superior to Linux.  On a x86 platform FreeBSD is noticably better than K >> Linux.  And yet, which one is more popular?  Why?  Simple.  When was the K >> last time you saw any mention of FreeBSD in the trade press?  And Linux? L >> Where can you buy "The FreeBSD Journal"?  And "The Linux Journal"?  Linux@ >> is hyped way more than any of the BSD's and that's MARKETING. >    Red herring alert!!   C > As far as I remember *BSD was caught in a legal battle about the   > copyright of the source   J That was 1992-1993.  People working with BSD knew the case had no merit (aB judge agreed and the case was settled out of court.  The offendingA code turned out to be only a dozen or so lines of code out of the @ thousands that made up the BSD distro) and continued developmentB during the "trial".  When the case was settled BSD hit the streetsA once again as a complete and functional OS.  Linux is at 0.95 and  is little more than a toy.  I >                          when free software was starting to get out of   > the academic world.     @ "free" software had been around for more than a decade.  We wereC distributing free software on USENET pretty much from the beginning E (1979).  In particular, the software that made USENET exist!!  People E need to stop listening to GNU's claim to have invented Opensource and  "free" software.    I >                     That made people stay away from *BSD, because they  J > where afraid to lose the right to run their machines and perhabs having # > to pay to AT&T at a later date.     H Wishful thinking.  The only thing it stopped was the public distributionJ of the software and that embargo lasted about a year.  Private development= continued.  Everybody interested already had a copy of Net-2,   F >                                 When that battle was over Linux was 1 > already so big that *BSD did not have a chance.   A Say what???  When it was over Linux was at 0,95 still little more C than a toy and BSD went back to being a mature OS with lots of open  source applications.   > J > The *BSD vs Linux battle demonstrates how important it is not be caught ) > up in a legal battle at the wrong time.   ? No, the *BSD vs, Linux battle shows how important marketing and = hype are.  That is the only thing that Linux does better. The C legal battle was insignificant and way to long ago to have anything 0 to do with the current status of either of them.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 14:05:43 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43709mF1lgm57U2@individual.net>  0 In article <11srmc15e5mu34b@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 8 >> In article <43CD5C45.4A22065E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei* >> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>   >>  2 >>>Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >>> J >>>>However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE, >>>>why hasn't VMS taken off?  >>>  >>>one word: >>> @ >>><font size=500 attribute="BOLD,BLINK,UNDERLINE,REVERSE_VIDEO,. >>>DOUBLE_WIDTH, DOUBLE_HEIGHT", COLOUR="RED"> >>>  >>>  >>>	M A R K E T I N G  >>   >>  G >> While marketing might have helped, and Palmer certainly did hurt, I  K >> don't think the only reason is lack of marketing.  Linux didn't succeed  ; >> because of marketing, it succeeded because it was cheap.  > E > If that's the major reason, then why didn't the other, prior, free  2 > Operating Systems succeed?  FreeBSD for example?  C A point I have been trying to make for some time (unsuccessfully!). @ The only thing Linux does better than any of the BSD's is shovel/ hype.  And that is what marketing is all about.    > D > Linux is where it is today mainly because of something similar to F > marketing.  It was perceived to be 'cute' and 'whatever' and it was  > pushed at people.   C Not similar to, it really is marketing.  They have their own press. D and it's supporters actively push to get the word "linux" in all the real trade journals.   > N > IBM jumped on Linux, most likely to counter Microsoft, and that meant a lot.  B IBM jumped on Linux to ride the marketing wave.  FreeBSD is a muchD better candidate for the kind of things that IBM does, in particularG because it is not saddled with the GNU Public Virus which is very anti- E business.  IBM did not choose this greatr dis-advantage because Linux  was "cute".    >  >> I still think  I >> that, though VMS can't really compete with linux there and shouldn't,  G >> one should think about some sort of entry-level commercial license,  K >> perhaps without support.  As long as it wouldn't take away revenue from  : >> existing customers, I don't see why HP shouldn't do it. > I > Ah, reasonably priced VMS for the smaller customers.  It's headed that  A > way, but still is not low enough for the desktop.  Actually, I  G > personally think that the current offerings are reasonable.  Too bad  4 > that the potential repeat customers are long gone.  G VMS on the desktop is neither practical nor needed.  What is needed are H desktop application that can run on the VMS servers and be used from the/ existing desktop.  Xwindows for the PC is free.    > I >>>This is why the announcement that VMS is to be ported to the 8086 will F >>>invigotrate VMS because that will make teh news and be a very clearH >>>message that HP intends VMS to be maintream and not relegated to someJ >>>obscrure platform and niche market. Going onto the 8086 would instantlyI >>>make VMS available on the full range of industry standard computers at F >>>very litle cost compared to developping low volume specialised IA64 >>>thing laptops, desktops etc.  >>   >>  J >> Yes, but if the license costs 10 times what the hardware does, I don't , >> see it being a winner in the marketplace. >>   > < > Check on the current licenses before you make such claims.  : The cost of the license is irrelevant once you come to the9 understanding that there is really no advantage to VMS on 9 the desktop.  It is the functionality that is needed, not  iron.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 08:32:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 3 Message-ID: <Wr8lDkE7SaNi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4358upF1lc6uiU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: . > In article <43CD67AE.B81F4279@teksavvy.com>,2 > 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>  K >> Also, consider the strategy: the more OSs are available on the 8086, the H >> more it dilutes Windows in the numbers, and people will start to talkF >> about OS-less server markets instead of Windows. It will be windows@ >> against MacOS vs Linux vs Solaris Vs VMS vs Etc on thje 8086. > I > Except that all t hose OSes will not run on generic commodity hardware. H > MacOS certainly won't, Solaris certainly doesn't (look at their HCL! IH > have.)  ANd there is no chance that VMS would. The only OS that can beF > expected to run on pretty much any x86 platform is still going to be
 > Windows.  - Depending on what you mean by the word "run".    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:30:14 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4378onF1lapj6U1@individual.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:- > In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>, 7 > 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:    > H >>Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time,I >>and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't : >>have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases. >  > = > The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success?  > E In my case, FreeBSD didn't have the online press coverage that Linux  D did, but the clincher was that I could pick up a packaged copy with G documentation from a local shop. I only had dial up access at the time.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 16:35:03 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43791nF1koqrkU1@individual.net>  0 In article <11ssqlk9vagls0d@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:Z >> In article <4358upF1lc6uiU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  / >>>In article <43CD67AE.B81F4279@teksavvy.com>, 3 >>>	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>> L >>>>Also, consider the strategy: the more OSs are available on the 8086, theI >>>>more it dilutes Windows in the numbers, and people will start to talk G >>>>about OS-less server markets instead of Windows. It will be windows A >>>>against MacOS vs Linux vs Solaris Vs VMS vs Etc on thje 8086.  >>> J >>>Except that all t hose OSes will not run on generic commodity hardware.I >>>MacOS certainly won't, Solaris certainly doesn't (look at their HCL! I I >>>have.)  ANd there is no chance that VMS would. The only OS that can be G >>>expected to run on pretty much any x86 platform is still going to be  >>>Windows.  >>   >>  0 >> Depending on what you mean by the word "run". > E > Possibly it would be more accurate to say that the availability of  2 > device drivers for windoz exceeds all other OSs.  E You can play word games all you want.  As far as the industry and the F majority of serious users are contained, Windows is the OS that works,F Linux is the primary alternative.  VMS isn't even a blip on the RADAR.  ? Playing word games and denigrating Windows in this very limited < playground neither helps solve the problem nor causes MS any? concern.  Getting serious desktop apps back on VMS so that even ? if the front-end is a Windows box the back end can be a serious ? machine is the task at hand.  Maybe if as much effort was spent > trying to convince HP that VMS can be used to enhance the sale> of what they see as their bread and butter as is spent arguing? about a port that may or may not come about (and doesn't appear > to be in HP's plans right now) we could actually get something done,    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 16:38:04 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43797cF1koqrkU2@individual.net>  , In article <4378onF1lapj6U1@individual.net>,+ 	Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:. >> In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>,8 >> 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >  >>  I >>>Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time, J >>>and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't; >>>have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases.  >>   >>  > >> The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success? >>  G > In my case, FreeBSD didn't have the online press coverage that Linux  F > did, but the clincher was that I could pick up a packaged copy with I > documentation from a local shop. I only had dial up access at the time.   D But that is part of marketing.  Putting the product in the consumersE hand.  You can't buy VMS or FreeBSD at a local store, but you can buy  Linux or Windows.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:52:20 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060118094958.02b83878@raptor.psccos.com>   - At 09:38 AM 1/18/2006, Bill Gunshannon wrote: - >In article <4378onF1lapj6U1@individual.net>, 4 >         Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:0 > >> In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>,> > >>      David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > >  > >>K > >>>Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time, L > >>>and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't= > >>>have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases.  > >> > >>@ > >> The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success? > >>H > > In my case, FreeBSD didn't have the online press coverage that LinuxG > > did, but the clincher was that I could pick up a packaged copy with K > > documentation from a local shop. I only had dial up access at the time.  > E >But that is part of marketing.  Putting the product in the consumers F >hand.  You can't buy VMS or FreeBSD at a local store, but you can buy >Linux or Windows.  L OK, put VMS laptops in a store and make them $1000.  Put a VMS desktop in a I store and make it, say, $750.  Do a 100-million $$$ ad blitz.  You won't  J sell enough to cover the ad costs.  The first 2 questions people will ask G are "what's VMS" and then "it runs MS-Office and all my games, right?".    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:51:16 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! = Message-ID: <43ce71fe$0$67260$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > IBM jumped on Linux to ride the marketing wave.  FreeBSD is a muchF > better candidate for the kind of things that IBM does, in particularI > because it is not saddled with the GNU Public Virus which is very anti- G > business.  IBM did not choose this greatr dis-advantage because Linux 
 > was "cute".   F Why do you think GPL is bad?  Licenses like BSD have the problem that E you never know, if the main contributers of code suddenly decides to  E make the code closed source.  Of course the rest of the Internet can  F continue developing on the open source releases, but it is frequently F not possible to gather enough people to do it.  Turning code licensed G under GPL into closed source is very difficult, because all holders of  7 copyright for the code will have to be asked and agree.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:20:35 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <437f7kF1m8dgtU1@individual.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > In article <4378onF1lapj6U1@individual.net>,- > 	Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:  >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>. >>>In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>,8 >>>	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>J >>>>Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time,K >>>>and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't < >>>>have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases. >>>  >>> > >>>The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success? >>>  >>G >>In my case, FreeBSD didn't have the online press coverage that Linux  F >>did, but the clincher was that I could pick up a packaged copy with I >>documentation from a local shop. I only had dial up access at the time.  >  > F > But that is part of marketing.  Putting the product in the consumersG > hand.  You can't buy VMS or FreeBSD at a local store, but you can buy  > Linux or Windows.  >    Exactly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 06:29:31 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches ( Message-ID: <ops3kvvhttzgicya@hyrrokkin>  9 On 17 Jan 2006 21:36:42 -0800, vmsmangler@earthlink.net   ! <vmsmangler@earthlink.net> wrote:   H > Good news and bad news. The good news is the Belkin KVM switch arrivedG > today. The bad news is this: it works with my DPW500au but fails with  > the DPW433au.  > ? > After further testing I found out that this Belkin KVM switch E > (F1DJ102P) passes every keystroke through to the 500. This includes F > F6-F20 plus all keys from the main keyboard, the center keyboard andI > the 10key pad even including PF1-PF4. During boot there are no keyboard < > test failures of any kind. Again, this in on the DPW500au. > E > On the other hand, the DPW433au fails keyboard test 4 several times A > during boot. And the, just before VMS begins to startup (before E > sylogicals.com is invoked) there is the error message that scancode  > 0xfa is not supported. > I > Further analysis reveals the 433 does not have USB connectors. Not even F > aluminum foil tape over where the connectors would be. But the 500au@ > does have the aluminum tape. This tells me the firmware in theA > superchip that supports the keyhboard, mouse and floppy disk is   > different in these 2 machines. > H > Alas, I am out of luck. I will be calling Belkin in the morning to see2 > about returning the switch and the power supply. > = > Hope this information is helpful to readers of comp.os.vms.  >  > Bill LaCounte  > Retired VMS Systems Manager  > ! Are you sure the 433 is an 'au' ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:48:01 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches H Message-ID: <8660a3a10601180648yd4ef308m153a36b2002dae8c@mail.gmail.com>  7 On 17 Jan 2006 21:36:42 -0800, vmsmangler@earthlink.net ! <vmsmangler@earthlink.net> wrote: H > Good news and bad news. The good news is the Belkin KVM switch arrivedG > today. The bad news is this: it works with my DPW500au but fails with  > the DPW433au.  > ? > After further testing I found out that this Belkin KVM switch E > (F1DJ102P) passes every keystroke through to the 500. This includes F > F6-F20 plus all keys from the main keyboard, the center keyboard andI > the 10key pad even including PF1-PF4. During boot there are no keyboard < > test failures of any kind. Again, this in on the DPW500au. > E > On the other hand, the DPW433au fails keyboard test 4 several times A > during boot. And the, just before VMS begins to startup (before E > sylogicals.com is invoked) there is the error message that scancode  > 0xfa is not supported. > I > Further analysis reveals the 433 does not have USB connectors. Not even F > aluminum foil tape over where the connectors would be. But the 500au@ > does have the aluminum tape. This tells me the firmware in theA > superchip that supports the keyhboard, mouse and floppy disk is   > different in these 2 machines. > H > Alas, I am out of luck. I will be calling Belkin in the morning to see2 > about returning the switch and the power supply. > = > Hope this information is helpful to readers of comp.os.vms.  >  > Bill LaCounte  > Retired VMS Systems Manager  >  >   0 I never was able to get a Belkin to work either.  G Something occurred to me that I hadn't seen mentioned in earlier posts. 1 Doesn't the 433au have a keyboard setting in SRM?   B This is from memory, but PCXAL and LK201 or some other LK setting?  L What's it set to--and have you tried the other setting ito see what happens= ?    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 07:31:11 -0800; From: "vmsmangler@earthlink.net" <vmsmangler@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches C Message-ID: <1137598271.828394.173470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    William Webb wrote: 9 > On 17 Jan 2006 21:36:42 -0800, vmsmangler@earthlink.net # > <vmsmangler@earthlink.net> wrote: J > > Good news and bad news. The good news is the Belkin KVM switch arrivedI > > today. The bad news is this: it works with my DPW500au but fails with  > > the DPW433au.  > > A > > After further testing I found out that this Belkin KVM switch G > > (F1DJ102P) passes every keystroke through to the 500. This includes H > > F6-F20 plus all keys from the main keyboard, the center keyboard andK > > the 10key pad even including PF1-PF4. During boot there are no keyboard > > > test failures of any kind. Again, this in on the DPW500au. > > G > > On the other hand, the DPW433au fails keyboard test 4 several times C > > during boot. And the, just before VMS begins to startup (before G > > sylogicals.com is invoked) there is the error message that scancode  > > 0xfa is not supported. > > K > > Further analysis reveals the 433 does not have USB connectors. Not even H > > aluminum foil tape over where the connectors would be. But the 500auB > > does have the aluminum tape. This tells me the firmware in theC > > superchip that supports the keyhboard, mouse and floppy disk is " > > different in these 2 machines. > > J > > Alas, I am out of luck. I will be calling Belkin in the morning to see4 > > about returning the switch and the power supply. > > ? > > Hope this information is helpful to readers of comp.os.vms.  > >  > > Bill LaCounte  > > Retired VMS Systems Manager  > >  > >  > 2 > I never was able to get a Belkin to work either. > I > Something occurred to me that I hadn't seen mentioned in earlier posts. 3 > Doesn't the 433au have a keyboard setting in SRM?  > D > This is from memory, but PCXAL and LK201 or some other LK setting? > N > What's it set to--and have you tried the other setting ito see what happens? >  > WWWebb >  > --E > NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  > correspondence. E > All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for : > services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at% > http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 07:40:11 -0800; From: "vmsmangler@earthlink.net" <vmsmangler@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches C Message-ID: <1137598811.936522.264160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   = Both the 433 and 500 support 2 keyboards. It is set in SRM as F kbd_hardware_type. The options are either PCXAL or LK411. PCXAL is theE default setting. Both settings worked on the 500. Both setting failed B on the 433. Since each system has a keyboard and mouse I naturallyE tried both keyboards and both mice. No difference. Thus my conclusion 5 that the problem is in the firmware of the superchip.   E By the way, both systems are running OpenVMS 7.3-1 (Hobbyist) and the A SRM Firmware is the same on both; the latest and greatest which I  belive is 7.2-1.  D What my testing also indicates is that Digital Personal Workstations@ 500au and 600au will most lilkely work with the Belkin F1DJ102P.D Especially if they have USB connectors or at least the aluminum foilE tape over where the connectors would be. This is obviously the reason > why a Belkin KVM switch works for Ken Fairfield since is has a	 DPW600au.    Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:56:45 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches ( Message-ID: <ops3kzwv06zgicya@hyrrokkin>  9 On 18 Jan 2006 07:40:11 -0800, vmsmangler@earthlink.net   ! <vmsmangler@earthlink.net> wrote:   ? > Both the 433 and 500 support 2 keyboards. It is set in SRM as H > kbd_hardware_type. The options are either PCXAL or LK411. PCXAL is theG > default setting. Both settings worked on the 500. Both setting failed D > on the 433. Since each system has a keyboard and mouse I naturallyG > tried both keyboards and both mice. No difference. Thus my conclusion 7 > that the problem is in the firmware of the superchip.  > G > By the way, both systems are running OpenVMS 7.3-1 (Hobbyist) and the C > SRM Firmware is the same on both; the latest and greatest which I  > belive is 7.2-1. > F > What my testing also indicates is that Digital Personal WorkstationsB > 500au and 600au will most lilkely work with the Belkin F1DJ102P.F > Especially if they have USB connectors or at least the aluminum foilG > tape over where the connectors would be. This is obviously the reason @ > why a Belkin KVM switch works for Ken Fairfield since is has a > DPW600au.  >  > Bill > I I was under the impression that the only difference amongst 433/500/600au I was the switch setting for the speed, at least having had all three, that  is what I observed.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 08:09:04 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches C Message-ID: <1137600544.426199.112120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Tom Linden wrote:   K > I was under the impression that the only difference amongst 433/500/600au K > was the switch setting for the speed, at least having had all three, that  > is what I observed.   E No, there are two versions of the motherboard - the Miata MX5 and GL. G The newer version (Miata GL) has the USB ports and also  the Cypress IO G controller chip which allows booting from an IDE CDRom and hard drives. G  The older version (Miata MX5) lacks the USB ports and has the Intel IO E chip which will not boot IDE.  The PWS433 may be old enough that only F the older version was produced.  I think the switch happened somewhereC in the production of the PWS 500.  I have one of the 500's with the  Intel IO chip.  E For all the gruesome details see the VMS FAQ Section 14.4.4  "OpenVMS 0 on the Personal Workstation -a and -au series? "   www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 08:06:59 -0800( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> Subject: Re: KVM Switches C Message-ID: <1137600419.515109.318630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   F There were two different core chipsets used on the PWS Alpha series; IC believe one was the "Intel SIO" and the other was a different brand F (Cyrix?  I can't recall).  There were differences in capabilities; theE Intel unit could not boot VMS from an IDE CDROM drive while the later C model could.  I think USB was also a function of the later chipset.   > Since the chipset provided support for the ISA and other basicG peripherals, its not surprising there might be a difference in keyboard 
 handling too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:18:02 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: KVM Switches , Message-ID: <43ce865b$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  B Does the switch pass through all commands to the keyboard, and all
 responses?  I It may be that the firmware on the 433 is sending the magic sequence that I tells us if the keyboard is a PCXAL or LK411 - and not getting a response  back through the switch.    + <vmsmangler@earthlink.net> wrote in message = news:1137598811.936522.264160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... ? > Both the 433 and 500 support 2 keyboards. It is set in SRM as H > kbd_hardware_type. The options are either PCXAL or LK411. PCXAL is theG > default setting. Both settings worked on the 500. Both setting failed D > on the 433. Since each system has a keyboard and mouse I naturallyG > tried both keyboards and both mice. No difference. Thus my conclusion 7 > that the problem is in the firmware of the superchip.  > G > By the way, both systems are running OpenVMS 7.3-1 (Hobbyist) and the C > SRM Firmware is the same on both; the latest and greatest which I  > belive is 7.2-1. > F > What my testing also indicates is that Digital Personal WorkstationsB > 500au and 600au will most lilkely work with the Belkin F1DJ102P.F > Especially if they have USB connectors or at least the aluminum foilG > tape over where the connectors would be. This is obviously the reason @ > why a Belkin KVM switch works for Ken Fairfield since is has a > DPW600au.  >  > Bill >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:21:55 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: KVM Switches + Message-ID: <dqm104$mol$1@news01.intel.com>    vmsmangler@earthlink.net wrote: H > Good news and bad news. The good news is the Belkin KVM switch arrivedG > today. The bad news is this: it works with my DPW500au but fails with  > the DPW433au.    [snip]  E > On the other hand, the DPW433au fails keyboard test 4 several times A > during boot. And the, just before VMS begins to startup (before E > sylogicals.com is invoked) there is the error message that scancode  > 0xfa is not supported.   [snip]  ? Well, the obvious question I'd have is, do the keyboard & mouse ? work correctly on the DPW433au when connected *directly* to the  system, not through the KVM?  F Since the DPW433au takes a PS/2 keyboard, any of LK411, LK461 or LK462E *ought* to work properly.  OTOH, wasn't the LK411 missing one or both H of the two Alt-keys, or some such (maybe I'm thinking of an LK401...)???  @ FWIW, when I use Exceed's keyboard mapping facility on my laptop> (Tools -> Configuration.... -> Keyboard Input -> Edit), Exceed+ pops up a window titled "xkeys" that reads,   C      "The Windows keyboard driver failed to recognize a key in this >       keyboard file.  The key cap may display in a scan code."  C OK, that's Windows, and the mapping works just fine, thank you very E much. ;-p  (I see scan codes for F13, F14, Help, Do and F17.)  Just a @ a red herring.... I did search, but I couldn't find any key that( (apparently) had 0xfa for a scan code...  - Is there a console F/W upgrade you can apply?   C But you're right that I have no experience with this older DPW. :-(    	Good luck!  Ken --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 01:00:31 -06002 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: LK463? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-RhqOMUg9dqlG@dave2_os2.home.ours>   1 On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:32:04 UTC, Forrest Kenney  & <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com> wrote:   > G >     I don't have the specification for the LK463 at hand but it sends D > no unique key codes.  Every key code needed already existed in the9 > USB Human Interface Device specification for keyboards.  > D >     In PS2 mode the LK463 sends exactly the same data at the otherF > LK4XX keyboards.  So if the applications are not seeing the keycodes= > it is because Windows or OS-X are not passing them through.   F I'm no WinXP keyboard expert but when trying to get a german keyboard F working with a mate's UK version of XP recently, (not as simple as in > previous versions of Windaz) I read the Help documentation on B keyboards. It had some explanations, maybe there's a clue for you E there. I don't use XP on anything running at the moment or I'd quote   chapter and verse.   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:39:03 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: LK463I Message-ID: <8660a3a10601180939k5a668177q15149789320e2dfd@mail.gmail.com>   L On 18 Jan 2006 01:00:31 -0600, Dave Weatherall <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> w= rote: 2 > On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:32:04 UTC, Forrest Kenney( > <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com> wrote: >  > > I > >     I don't have the specification for the LK463 at hand but it sends F > > no unique key codes.  Every key code needed already existed in the; > > USB Human Interface Device specification for keyboards.  > > F > >     In PS2 mode the LK463 sends exactly the same data at the otherH > > LK4XX keyboards.  So if the applications are not seeing the keycodes? > > it is because Windows or OS-X are not passing them through.  > G > I'm no WinXP keyboard expert but when trying to get a german keyboard G > working with a mate's UK version of XP recently, (not as simple as in ? > previous versions of Windaz) I read the Help documentation on C > keyboards. It had some explanations, maybe there's a clue for you F > there. I don't use XP on anything running at the moment or I'd quote > chapter and verse. >  > -- > Cheers - Dave W. > / This page has lots of cross-platform solutions.   ' http://www.macwindows.com/keyboard.html    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 13:21:06 GMT) From: Hans Bachner <Hans@Bachner.priv.at> 3 Subject: Re: looking for Force Flexor A264/500 docs 0 Message-ID: <dql7k6.64.1@usenet.bachner.priv.at>  * Hans Bachner <Hans@Bachner.priv.at> wrote:  = > I recently acquired a Force Flexor A264/500 based computer, " > unfortunately without any docs.  <snip>  - Thanks for the mail and even a phone call :-)   H The nice folks at Motorola in Munich provided the essential document as > well as a pointer to a still existing Force support web site.   C > I'm particularly interested in the type/size of memeory the board G > accepts and the pinout of the combined mouse/keyboard PS/2 connector  = > (the usual PS/2-Y-cables used with notebooks doesn't work).   H Correction: it does work. But other than with most notebooks the Flexor B is sensitive to which connector keyboard and mouse are plugged in.  I Now I'm looking for two 9-pin Micro-D to RS232 cables to make use of the  I serial ports... The serial Micro-D connectors seem to be rare these days.    Thanks,  Hans.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 07:31:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) O Subject: Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-Directories 3 Message-ID: <0ZR5QdYNTWNd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43CD5A19.40D065DF@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > William Webb wrote: C >> The only foolproof way I can think of would be to burn it to CD.  > O > Or dedicate a disk to that data and MOUNT/SYSTEM/NOWRITE disk: volume logical   E    Get VAX-11 series machine, store the data on an RP06 (or similar), #    and throw the write-lock switch.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:33:09 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> O Subject: Re: Setting Read-Only Permissions on a Directory & all Sub-Directories I Message-ID: <8660a3a10601180933l43366a70n7b9e0eddd263221d@mail.gmail.com>   4 On 1/17/06, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > William Webb wrote: L > > On 16 Jan 2006 20:52:29 -0800, Shawn M. <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> wrot= e: > >  > >>Hi All,  > >>G > >>What would be the best way to assign read-only permissions to a top 6 > >>level directory and all sub-directories and files. > >>H > >>I have a user who has copied all their data to an existing directory1 > >>and wants it read only so no deletions occur.  > >>2 > >>I am running OpenVMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha Server. > >>
 > >>Thanks	 > >>Shawn  > >> > >> > >  > > L > > The problem with most idiotproofing is the astonishing ingenuity of idi= ots. > > D > > The only foolproof way I can think of would be to burn it to CD. > > ? > > Although if you wanted to be mean you could put it on tape, 1 > > write-protect the tape and mount it Files-11.  > > 	 > > : ^ )  > L > The US Surpreme Court has ruled against cruel and unusual punishment.  :-= )  >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >    < BOFH >  , Not in the case of end-users, hahahahahahah!  	 < /BOFH >    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 09:00:32 -0800 From: junezheng@eastlink.ca 3 Subject: Re: sws2.1 DCL CGI problem in redir header B Message-ID: <1137603632.645038.42780@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  G Thanks for your cue David. It seems CSWS1.3 has implied carriage return B in DCL CGI output, but it is not the case for sws2.1 by default. IC wonder whether SWS2.1 has a control for turning it on, otherwise we C have to change all DCL scripts that migrate from CSWS1.3 to sws2.1.    Thanks,   E June Young, Software Development                   bus: (902)422-1973  x144B Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St.,      fax: (902)421-12676 Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada           mailto: JYo...@dymaxion.ca   http://www.dymaxion.ca   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 08:56:50 -0800 From: junezheng@eastlink.ca F Subject: sws2.1 with mod_perl, exit() after $query->redirect() problemB Message-ID: <1137603410.874717.47390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  F I newly migrate from CSWS1.3 to  using sws2.1 and csws_perl2.1 on OPEN VMS8.2.   > My perl CGI scripts normally have if statements saying that ifD this...do redirect to another URL and exit(), otherwise, continue toD display the form. These scripts used to work on CSWS1.3, now showingA "unexpect network read error, can't access start file...." on the D browser. I noticed that it is exit() that follows $query->redirect() causes the trouble.    Test1.CGI (works): use CGI; $query =CGI->new();  print B $query->redirect(-url=>"http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com");   TEST2.CGI (does not work). use CGI; $query =CGI->new();  print B $query->redirect(-url=>"http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com"); exit();   A I am using  ModPerl::Registry for my perl CGIs. I understand that E exit() is actually ModPerl::Util::exit() which only exits the request G not the process, but I don't understand why it will affect my redirect.    Any help is appreciated.  E June Young, Software Development                   bus: (902)422-1973  x144B Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St.,      fax: (902)421-12676 Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada           mailto: JYoung@dymaxion.ca http://www.dymaxion.ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:04:55 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>) Subject: Re: UNIX shm* functions for VMS? * Message-ID: <43ce8349@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F The SHM stuff in DECwindows was provided explicitly for the X11 shared  memory extension (XShmPutImage).  E I seem to think that the CRTL did/was/is adding a real SHM extension.   7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message , news:06011223071660_20331674@antinode.org...* > From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> > B > > On my system (OpenVMS8.2 for alpha with DecWindows 1.5) I find* > > definitions of shmat() and shmctl() in0 > >    SYS$COMMON:[DECW$INCLUDE.EXTENSIONS]SHM.HJ > > the definition of shmget is obviously missing. But programs containingG > > it could be linked against the DECW-libraries. The single program I < > > tested (the fzort demo of xlockmore) worked in this way. > G >    Seems to be true on VMS V7.3-2, too.  I can't say yet that the shm J > functions all work as expected, but the linker is happy, and the programI > hasn't yet exploded.  I had to build my own SHM.H from the DECW one and H > some fragments from the one on Tru64 (which is a little scary).  And I2 > had to whip up a quick ftok().  Linking required% > "sys$share:decw$xextlibshr /share".  > G >    Thanks for the suggestion.  If I get to the point where this stuff I > gets used seriously, I'll see if the memory sharing actually works (and  > re-complain when it doesn't).  > I >    In the meanwhile, if anyone is looking for something to add to the C $ > RTL, this stuff would get my vote. > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 09:30:03 -0800* From: "Brice Buchanan" <BriceBu@gmail.com>5 Subject: Re: VMS TCPIP NFS (novice filesystem sharer) C Message-ID: <1137605403.534864.156290@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Resolution:   C Ah, REPLY /ENABLE  .... is a light unto my path, and a lamp unto my  feet!   @ The relevant services wouldn't start because their corresponding Usernames were expired. Sheesh.    This command  ,    $ authorize modify tcpip$*  /noexpiration  ? solved the problem. I can mount the drive on the NFS client....   D Whether I can get a Windows box to see this drive is another matter.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:30:15 +0100 1 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?= B Subject: Webware application server, new release and demonstration7 Message-ID: <43ce34db$0$18335$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>   5 A new kit of Webware for Python is available (V1.07).   < Fix a bug in the desinstallation procedure, and in a CGIplus; environment (WASD web server) remove the unnecessary thread ) created (now only one thread is started).   6 Download: http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/6 Demonstration: http://vmspython.dyndns.org/webkitplus/  6 I have also put online a video (about 12mn) which show0 how to install Webware in a Cgiplus environment.; This include the installation of webware and the setup of a $ demonstration. All in just 12mn  :-)  B Currently no sound. Just the installation and setup demonstration.  @ http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/webware_for_wasd.wmv      
 Jean-Franois    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.036 ************************