0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 19 Jan 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 37      Contents: 11/780 peripherals Re: 11/780 peripherals Re: 11/780 peripherals Re: 11/780 peripherals Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.  Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS. ( Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks!& Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File& Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File& Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File& Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File Re: Help with mini-copy please$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now!$ Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches Re: KVM Switches	 Re: LK463 	 Re: LK463 A Re: sws2.1 with mod_perl, exit() after $query->redirect() problem 9 Re: TCPIP Services: management of cluster alias interface   Re: UNIX shm* functions for VMS?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 16:11:37 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: 11/780 peripherals . Message-ID: <mdd64oh44xi.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  M Is the TE16 the only tape drive from which VMS can be installed onto a 780 or  785?   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:20:31 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>  Subject: Re: 11/780 peripherals A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060118141908.025130d8@raptor.psccos.com>   J Not hardly.  Some that come to mind are the TU80, TU77, TU78, etc..  I've L used all of them in the past "way back when".  Just make sure whatever tape K drive you use supports the density of the magtape you're reading.  If it's  D 800bpi, the TE16 may be the only choice (that was a LONG time ago!).  + At 02:11 PM 1/18/2006, Rich Alderson wrote: N >Is the TE16 the only tape drive from which VMS can be installed onto a 780 or >785?  >  >-- M >Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     | M >news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against | M >"You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    | N >                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:15:19 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: 11/780 peripherals 1 Message-ID: <b_zzf.1786$6I7.836@news.cpqcorp.net>   d In article <mdd64oh44xi.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:N :Is the TE16 the only tape drive from which VMS can be installed onto a 780 or :785?   	   Nope.     E   AFAIK, the TE16 is old even when compared to the VAX-11/780 series.   H   I've used SI tape drives, Kennedy tape drives, and DIGITAL TU7x-class,I   TA7x-class and TU8x-class tape drives to install (as it was then known) F   VAX/VMS on these old VAX-11 boxes.  Which tape I/O options you have F   depend highly on whether you have a Unibus, CI, MASSBUS or other I/OG   path available on your Starlet (VAX-11/780) or Superstar (VAX-11/785) H   box.  All sorts of stuff could be found hanging off the VAX SBI here,    after all.  G   After you did a few tape-based installations using Standalone BACKUP, F   you usually scrounged up a way to do a disk-based installation, too.   	--   F   The "fun" that was involved in maintaining all these tape bootstrapsF   was why OpenVMS Alpha chose to require optical media for the initial   software installations, too.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 18:26:28 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: Re: 11/780 peripherals . Message-ID: <mddfynljexn.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  % hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   > > In article <mdd64oh44xi.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson) > <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:   M >: Is the TE16 the only tape drive from which VMS can be installed onto a 780 
 >: or 785?   >   Nope.     G >   AFAIK, the TE16 is old even when compared to the VAX-11/780 series.   J OK, thanks.  The only 780 installation manual I have is from 1979, and theL only drive it mentions is the TE16.  That seemed odd to me, but I'm a 36-bit kind of guy.  J >   I've used SI tape drives, Kennedy tape drives, and DIGITAL TU7x-class,K >   TA7x-class and TU8x-class tape drives to install (as it was then known) H >   VAX/VMS on these old VAX-11 boxes.  Which tape I/O options you have H >   depend highly on whether you have a Unibus, CI, MASSBUS or other I/OI >   path available on your Starlet (VAX-11/780) or Superstar (VAX-11/785) J >   box.  All sorts of stuff could be found hanging off the VAX SBI here,  >   after all.  $ So my TU78s should work?  In theory?  I >   After you did a few tape-based installations using Standalone BACKUP, H >   you usually scrounged up a way to do a disk-based installation, too.  ( Love to, but this is from the ground up.   > 	--   H >   The "fun" that was involved in maintaining all these tape bootstrapsH >   was why OpenVMS Alpha chose to require optical media for the initial  >   software installations, too.  	 No doubt.   
 Thanks again!    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:52:25 -0500 C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com>   Subject: Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.4 Message-ID: <vMxzf.70$pU2.30@bignews5.bellsouth.net>  E Well, we sell an upgrade kit for PWS from -a to -au that includes the 
 following:     KZPBA-CA DEC RRD47-AB white 32x SCSI " 17-40009-01 UW to 50 Pin Converter s3 Trio 64 2MB Graphics card  # This will make your -A become a -AU   
 Price is $199    David    --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   1 "Mister Q" <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote in message < news:1137564910.797802.10350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...F > I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intendedG > for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from the E > integral IDE CD. As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it. I have I > some RRD43's and RRD45's floating around, but am getting confused about @ > the right. Adapter to use (and ultimately the right cable(s)). > D > There were several KZ SCSI Adaptors, but these are rare as rockingH > horse .... nowadays, so getting the adaptec equivalent is probably theD > best approach. Does anyone have a "mapping" of DEC part numbers of > Adaptec equivalents?B > ie.e KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPSC, KZPBA, KZPDA, KZPSM, and which is most > suitable for CD's. > H > cable Wise, most every CDRom (SCSI) that I have seen has a 50 pin bergI > on the back, so I am guessing that a 50pin berg to 50 pin berg cable is E > the best bet? What happens about SCSI termination? (DB25's, Honda's . > VHDCI's etc - What a rats nest of options... > A > The other options is getting a CD-RW drive, and plugging it in, B > allowing CDRECORD to do  its thang... Any comments on compatibleH > CDRW's, and what to watch out for... Or at least something faster than* > the 4x RRD45's I have floating around... >  >  > q  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:03:29 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)   Subject: Re: CD's SCSI, and VMS.1 Message-ID: <RWyzf.1776$IH7.227@news.cpqcorp.net>   k In article <1137564910.797802.10350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Mister Q" <pquodling@gmail.com> writes: E :I managed to get myself and Alpha PWS500au. One of the ones intended F :for Tru64, and as such not having the capability to boot VMS from the :integral IDE CD.   C   You have one of the early-series Personal Workstation boxes with  C   the Intel SIO, eh?  (For those that haven't seen this, do search  B   for the discussion of the Intel SIO and the Cypress bridge chips?   in the OpenVMS FAQ.  The limitation is bootstrapping from the ?   Intel SIO, of course -- there are tools available which allow @   you to access the IDE and to an attached ATAPI CD device, once%   you've booted from another device.)   , :As such, I need to get a SCSI CDROM for it.  B   Any supported SCSI controller will obviously work, which is alsoB   the wrinkle here.  Once you get a SCSI controller, then getting B   a SCSI adapter to get from your connector to your 50-pin Berg is   easy.   @ :The other options is getting a CD-RW drive, and plugging it in,A :allowing CDRECORD to do  its thang... Any comments on compatible G :CDRW's, and what to watch out for... Or at least something faster than * :the 4x RRD45's I have floating around...   D   CDRECORD/CDRTOOLS and the COPY/RECORDABLE_MEDIA stuff arriving in C   OpenVMS V8.3 both operate with the Plextor PlexWriter series SCSI D   CD-R/RW drives.  I haven't tested with other CD-R/RW SCSI devices.E   Well, I don't _have_ any other SCSI CD-R/RW devices -- I would also F   tend to expect the PlexWriter won't be officially supported, either.F   As for compatibility, I've yet to find two dufferent CD-R/RW devicesF   that are completely identical at the command level -- other than theD   device identification, obviously.  Plugging it in and trying it isF   about the only way I've found to verify an unsupported device works.I   (But you already knew that.)  Sometimes "similar" isn't similar enough.   C   Do you have other OpenVMS boxes around; a way to get a pre-loaded D   SCSI disk over onto this Personal Workstation box?  If so, you canG   use the disk to get the bits over to the box, and avoid the IDE/ATAPI ;   bootstrap.  Or can you set up a shared SCSI cluster here?   E   Here's the direct URL link to the Personal Workstation 500au series D   configuration information, and you'll be able to find the originalG   set of SCSI controllers listed here (via the Product Bulletin/Systems "   and Options Catalog (SOC) link):  N http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/auseries/index.html  H   Manuals and the service guide and such should be available there, too.  F   From the controllers listed there, you may well be able to find your2   way to an available (supported) SCSI controller.   	--   ?   If you have already traveled these paths, please ignore this.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:17:29 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Email Tadpole for itanium notebooks! + Message-ID: <43CF04C9.8E55F968@comcast.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >  > >>bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > >>K > >>>I emailed and talked to head of manufacturing ... you can call them at  > >>>various numbers at  > >>- > >>Bob, nobody wants VMS on that IA64 thing.  > >  > > * > > I don't know as I'd go quite that far. > > L > > x86-64 is generally acknowledged (even by me) as not being able to scale% > > as big as I64 systems need to be.  > I > Hmm, IBM's benchmark figures show their own 32-way SMP X86-64 beating a J > 32-way HP Itanium Superdome. And there's no magic reason you can't scale > beyond that.  @ I'd have to see it running an Enterprise class database (tens ofE terabytes on hundreds of volumes with tens of thousands of concurrent 	 clients).   : > The IBM system also has all of the big iron features you
 > might want.    ...except VMS.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 17:14:24 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>/ Subject: Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File C Message-ID: <1137633264.287777.137120@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   0 Just Google for "sysuaf csv" and "feel lucky" ?! Hein   #include <descrip> #include <uaidef>  #include <stdio> #include <ctype> #include <RMS>    1 /*  GETUAI.C,	Hein van den Heuvel, September 1997  **B **  Test program to extract SYSUAF data into comma seperated value (CSV) list. G **  Only tested using VAXC, the fao_param list use will need fixing for  Alpha. */  A typedef struct { short size, code; void *buf; short *len; } item; @ typedef struct { short size, code; char *format, *name ;} field;" char *out_p, *fao_p, username[64];# $DESCRIPTOR	(username_d, username);   F void setup_field ( field *f, item *i, char *buffer, void **fao_param ) { ,     out_p += sprintf (out_p, "%s,",f->name);       i->size =  f->size;      i->code =  f->code;      i->len =  NULL;       strcpy (fao_p,   f->format);      fao_p += strlen( f->format);       if (f->size <= 4) {  	i->buf = (void *) fao_param;  	*fao_param = 0;     } else { 	i->buf = buffer;  	*fao_param = buffer;  	memset ( buffer, 0, 8);8 	if (f->code == UAI$_USERNAME) *fao_param = &username_d;     }  }    main(int argc, char *argv[]) {      field fields[] = {  7     32, UAI$_USERNAME, "!AS,", "USERNAME", 	/* username 
         */9     32, UAI$_ACCOUNT, "!AC,", "ACCOUNT", 	/* account name        */9      2, UAI$_ASTLM, "!UW,", "ASTLM", 		/* AST queue limit     */ G      3, UAI$_BATCH_ACCESS_P, "!XL,", "BATCH_ACCESS_P", 	/* hourly batch  access, primary     */G      3, UAI$_BATCH_ACCESS_S, "!XL,", "BATCH_ACCESS_S", 	/* hourly batch  access, secondary   */<      2, UAI$_BIOLM, "!UW,", "BIOLM", 		/* buffered I/O limit    */ G      4, UAI$_BYTLM, "!UL,", "BYTLM", 		/* buffered I/O byte count limit     */ @     32, UAI$_CLITABLES, "!AC,", "CLITABLES", 	/* user CLI tables           */:      4, UAI$_CPUTIM, "!UL,", "CPUTIM", 		/* CPU time quota      */ G     32, UAI$_DEFCLI, "!AC,", "DEFCLI", 		/* default command interpreter       */ :     32, UAI$_DEFDEV, "!AC,", "DEFDEV", 		/* default device      */ =     64, UAI$_DEFDIR, "!AC,", "DEFDIR", 		/* default directory       */ ?      8, UAI$_DEF_PRIV, "!@XL,", "DEF_PRIV", 	/* default process  privileges       */ E      4, UAI$_DFWSCNT, "!UL,", "DFWSCNT", 	/* default working set size        */C      3, UAI$_DIALUP_ACCESS_P, "!UW,", "DIALUP_ACCESS_P", 	/* hourly  dialup access, primary    */C      3, UAI$_DIALUP_ACCESS_S, "!UW,", "DIALUP_ACCESS_S", 	/* hourly  dialup access, secondary  */:      2, UAI$_DIOLM, "!UW,", "DIOLM", 		/* direct I/O limit    */ D /*     4, UAI$_ENCRYPT, "!@XL,", "ENCRYPT", 	   encryption algorithm          */ F /*     4, UAI$_ENCRYPT2, "!@XL,", "ENCRYPT2", 	   encryption algorithm for 2nd pwd */7      2, UAI$_ENQLM, "!UW,", "ENQLM", 		/* enqueue limit     */ F      8, UAI$_EXPIRATION, "!%D,", "EXPIRATION", 	/* expiration date for account      */ 9      2, UAI$_FILLM, "!UW,", "FILLM", 		/* open file limit     */ =      4, UAI$_FLAGS, "!XL,", "FLAGS", 		/* user flags longword     */ 4      2, UAI$_GRP, "!OW,", "GRP", 		/* group subfield */B      2, UAI$_JTQUOTA, "!UW,", "JTQUOTA", 	/* job-wide logical name table creation quota */ @      8, UAI$_LASTLOGIN_I, "!%D,", "LASTLOGIN_I", /* date of last interactive login   */@      8, UAI$_LASTLOGIN_N, "!%D,", "LASTLOGIN_N", /* date of last non-interactive login */?      64, UAI$_LGICMD, "!AC,", "LGICMD", 		/* login command file        */G      3, UAI$_LOCAL_ACCESS_P, "!XW,", "LOCAL_ACCESS_P", 	/* hourly local  access, primary     */G      3, UAI$_LOCAL_ACCESS_S, "!XW,", "LOCAL_ACCESS_S", 	/* hourly local  access, secondary   */F      2, UAI$_LOGFAILS, "!UW,", "LOGFAILS", 	/* count of login failures
         */D      2, UAI$_MAXACCTJOBS, "!UW,", "MAXACCTJOBS", /* maximum jobs for account allowed */A      2, UAI$_MAXDETACH, "!UW,", "MAXDETACH", 	/* maximum detached  processes for UIC */A      2, UAI$_MAXJOBS, "!UW,", "MAXJOBS", 	/* maximum jobs for UIC  allowed     */G /*   2, UAI$_MAX_CLASS, "!UW,", "MAX_CLASS", 	   maximum security class            */5      2, UAI$_MEM, "!OW,", "MEM", 		/* member subfield  */G /*   2, UAI$_MIN_CLASS, "!UW,", "MIN_CLASS", 	   minimum security class            */E      3, UAI$_NETWORK_ACCESS_P,  "!XW,", "NETWORK_ACCESS_P", /* hourly  network access, primary   */E      3, UAI$_NETWORK_ACCESS_S,  "!XW,", "NETWORK_ACCESS_S", /* hourly  network access, secondary */6     32, UAI$_OWNER, "!AC,", "OWNER", 		/* owner's name    */ G /*   4, UAI$_PARENT_ID, "!XL,", "PARENT_ID", 	   identifier of owner of  this account */ G      4, UAI$_PBYTLM, "!UL,", "PBYTLM", 		/* paged buffer I/O byte count  limit */@      4, UAI$_PGFLQUOTA, "!UL,", "PGFLQUOTA", 	/* page file quota           */E      4, UAI$_PRCCNT, "!UL,", "PRCCNT", 		/* subprocess creation limit       */ ;      1, UAI$_PRI, "!UB,", "PRI", 		/* base process priority  */B      4, UAI$_PRIMEDAYS, "!XL,", "PRIMEDAYS", 	/* bits representing primary days   */ A      8, UAI$_PRIV, "!@XL,", "PRIV", 		/* process privilege vector    */@ /*     1, UAI$_PROXIES, "!UW,", "PROXIES", 	   number of proxies granted        */ D /*     1, UAI$_PROXY_LIM, "!UW,", "PROXY_LIM", 	   number of proxies user can grant */ 7 /*     1, UAI$_PWD, "!UW,", "PWD", 		   hashed password   */ 9 /*     1, UAI$_PWD2, "!UW,", "PWD2", 		   second password     */ G /*     1, UAI$_PWD2_DATE, "!UW,", "PWD2_DATE", 	   date of 2nd password  change      */F      8, UAI$_PWD_DATE, "!%D,", "PWD_DATE", 	/* date of password change
         */C      1, UAI$_PWD_LENGTH, "!UB,", "PWD_LENGTH", 	/* minimum password  length          */?      8, UAI$_PWD_LIFETIME,  "!%D,", "PWD_LIFETIME", /* password  lifetime                */?      1, UAI$_QUEPRI, "!UB,", "QUEPRI", 		/* maximum job queuing  priority     */ C      3, UAI$_REMOTE_ACCESS_P, "!XL,", "REMOTE_ACCESS_P", 	/* hourly  remote access, primary    */C      3, UAI$_REMOTE_ACCESS_S, "!XL,", "REMOTE_ACCESS_S", 	/* hourly  remote access, secondary  */; /*     1, UAI$_RTYPE, "!UW,", "RTYPE", 		   UAF record type       */ > /*     1, UAI$_SALT, "!UW,", "SALT", 		   random password salt    */ @      2, UAI$_SHRFILLM, "!UW,", "SHRFILLM", 	/* shared file limit
         */@ /*     1, UAI$_SUB_ID, "!UW,", "SUB_ID", 	   user sub-identifier       */A      2, UAI$_TQCNT, "!UW,", "TQCNT", 		/* timer queue entry limit     */ 2      4, UAI$_UIC, "!XL,", "UIC", 		/* user ID code */< /*     1,  UAI$_USERNAME_TAG, "!UW,", "USERNAME_TAG", tag to differentiate records     */D /*     1, UAI$_USRDATOFF, "!UW,", "USRDATOFF", 	   offset of counted string of user data */A /*     1, UAI$_VERSION, "!UW,", "VERSION", 	   UAF format version 
         */E      4, UAI$_WSEXTENT, "!UL,", "WSEXTENT", 	/* working set size limit 
         */D      4, UAI$_WSQUOTA, "!UL,", "WSQUOTA"} ;	/* working set size quota	        */   3 #define FIELDS sizeof ( fields ) / sizeof ( field )        struct FAB	fab;      struct RAB	rab;      struct XABKEY	key;  A     char    fao[512], out[1024], buffers[FIELDS][64], keybuf[32]; C     int	    fao_params[FIELDS], i, j, k, l, s, context = -1, match;      item    items[FIELDS + 1];       $DESCRIPTOR (out_d, out);      $DESCRIPTOR (fao_d, fao);        fab = cc$rms_fab;      rab = cc$rms_rab;      key = cc$rms_xabkey;  !     fab.fab$b_shr = FAB$M_SHRPUT;      fab.fab$b_fac = FAB$M_GET;     fab.fab$l_fna = "SYSUAF";      fab.fab$b_fns = 6;&     fab.fab$l_dna = "SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT";+     fab.fab$b_dns = strlen (fab.fab$l_dna); "     fab.fab$l_xab = (void *) &key;       rab.rab$l_fab = &fab; "     rab.rab$l_ubf = (char *) &out;!     rab.rab$w_usz = sizeof (out);      rab.rab$l_kbf = keybuf;      rab.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_KEY;       out_p = out;     fao_p = fao;
     k = 0;       if (argc < 2) { 6 	printf ("Usage: getuai username [uai field list]\n");
 	return 1; 	}  
     k = 0;     if (argc > 2) {  	for	(i = 2; i < argc; i++) {  	    match = 1; * 	    for (j = 0; j < strlen(argv[i]); j++)  argv[i][j]=_toupper(argv[i][j]);3 	    for (j = 0; (j < FIELDS) && (match != 0); j++) : 		match = strncmp(argv[i],fields[j].name,strlen(argv[i]));@ 	    j--;	    /* probably my programming bug. needed on VAXC. */ 	    if (match == 0) {E 		setup_field ( &fields[j], &items[k] , buffers[k], &fao_params[k] );  		k++;8 	    } else printf ("NO match found for %s\n", argv[i]); 	}     } else { 	for (; k < FIELDS; k++)E 	    setup_field ( &fields[k], &items[k] , buffers[k], &fao_params[k]  );     }      *(--out_p) = 0;      printf ("%s\n", out);      items[k].size =  0;      items[k].code =  0; @     fao_d.dsc$w_length = fao_p - fao - 1; /* strip last comma */         l = strlen(argv[1]);;     for (j = 0; j < l; j++) keybuf[j]=_toupper(argv[1][j]);      rab.rab$b_ksz = l;       s = SYS$OPEN ( &fab );     if (!(s&1)) return s;      s = SYS$CONNECT ( &rab );      if (keybuf[0] == '*') {  	rab.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_SEQ; < 	if (s & 1) s = SYS$FIND ( &rab );   /* skip password rec */ 	}%     if (s & 1) s = SYS$FIND ( &rab );      rab.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_SEQ;     while (s & 1) {  	s = SYS$GET ( &rab );- 	memcpy (username, &out[key.xab$w_pos0], 32); + 	for (i = 0; !(isspace(username[i])); i++);  	username_d.dsc$w_length = i;  	if ( (keybuf[0] != '*') && : 	     strncmp(keybuf,username,strlen(keybuf)) != 0) break;% 	out_d.dsc$w_length = sizeof ( out ); E 	if (s & 1) s = sys$getuai ( 0, &context, &username_d,  &items, 0, 0,  0); @ 	if (s & 1) s = sys$faol ( &fao_d, &out_d, &out_d, fao_params );* 	if (s & 1) s = lib$put_output ( &out_d );     }      if (s==RMS$_EOF) s=1;      return s ; }    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:06:38 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File 0 Message-ID: <11su42ktfoum592@corp.supernews.com>   Lee Morgan wrote:  > Hi > F > Is anybody aware of a proven way to extract the full contents of theB > SYSUAF file into a 'sortable' csv file so that I can interrogate& > specific users' / searches in excel? > ( > Any help would be greatly appreciated. >   E Well, to get every field, read through the file, it's as RMS indexed  I file.  I don't have the record layout.  It might be available somewhere.  C   Some data won't do you any good.  The password is a one-way hash.   D What I've done in the past is output a /FULL LIST to an output text I file, and then parse the data in the text file.  I've got a program that  F extracts some of the data, for creating a command file for adding the : user accounts on another system.  If you want a copy, ask.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:15:43 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File , Message-ID: <43CF1252.6F4F3567@teksavvy.com>  D ALLIN1 has script access to the SYSUAF with smart field access. (eg:E dates are formatted by ALLIN1 into YYYYYYMMDDHHMMSS instead of binary E quadwords, but fields are converted to byte fields of 0 or 1 etc etc.   N Writing a script to extract all fields and write it out woudln't be difficult.  C Writing a index screen to show all records in a scrollable form and D allow viewed of individual records would be equially easy, including( searching for data inside those records.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 22:19:36 -0800, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>/ Subject: Re: Extract SYSUAF.DAT into a CSV File C Message-ID: <1137651576.766328.183860@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Lee Morgan schrieb:    > Hi > F > Is anybody aware of a proven way to extract the full contents of theB > SYSUAF file into a 'sortable' csv file so that I can interrogate& > specific users' / searches in excel? > ( > Any help would be greatly appreciated.  E On the freeware CD is a tool DIX, which allows the dumping af any RMS  indexed fileF into a CSV file. Luckily, the layout of the SYSUAF.DAT file is already defined for DIX, so a  + $ DIX/FILE/CSV/OUTPUT=SYSUAF.CSV SYSUAF:DAT    will do the trick.  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:50:31 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> ' Subject: Re: Help with mini-copy please 1 Message-ID: <b_wzf.1769$yB7.551@news.cpqcorp.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: @ > In article <iGazf.1690$b%6.889@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris) > <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:   >>Rob Brooks wrote: I >>>If the member is left out for a very long time, it's possible that the D >>>minicopy bitmap will be so full that you are effectively doing a 
 >>>full copy.  >>I >>But even in that worst-case scenario, where every 127-block segment on  G >>the entire disk has been written to while the member was absent, the  < >>mini-copy operation will still be faster than a full-copy. >  > Why.  B In a Full-Copy operation, the sequence of I/Os for each 127-block  segment is:  1) Read source disk  2) Compare with target disk J 3) If different, write source data to target disk and start over at step 1  G So if the data is different (as it all would be if all the bits in the  C Master write bitmap were set), you have a total of 5 I/Os for each  G 127-block segment: a source read, a comparison (which fails), a target  B write, another source read, and another comparison (which passes).  I In the case of a Mini-Copy, if a bit is sent indicating that a 127-block  G segment has changed, we know beforehand that a comparison would likely  G fail (because the 127-block segment has been written to, and it's very  E unlikely it's been written to with exactly the same data), so we can  C skip the first comparison. So the sequence of I/Os for a 127-block   segment during a Mini-Copy is: 1) Read source disk  2) Write to target disk  3) Read source disk  4) Compare with target disk F 5) If different, start over at step 2 (and of course there's rarely a  difference at this point)   G So the total number of I/Os for a Mini-Copy is 4 instead of 5 for each  E 127-block segment. That's why a Mini-Copy is faster than a Full-Copy  1 even if every block on the disk has been changed.   F More detail in my user-group presentation on OpenVMS Volume Shadowing < Copy & Merge Performance at http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:42:03 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! $ Message-ID: <dqm25r$deq$2@online.de>  < In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera$ <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:   1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 
 > > [snip]J > > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE, > > why hasn't VMS taken off?  > > > Can you show me a source of VMS-capable hardware at no cost?  B I have, literally, rooms full of VAX and ALPHA hardware, all of itH running VMS or at least capable of doing so.  Almost all of it I got forH free.  If someone hired me as a business consultant, I would like to say@ "run your application on this VMS cluster".  No support for freeA hardware?  No problem---when one of the nodes has a problem, just H replace it with a spare and boot it back into the cluster.  If I have anD essentially unlimited supply of hardware, then I don't need hardwareI support.  However, most business startups wouldn't go this route because   of the license costs.   J > All that said, there is actually enough free software floating around toF > build a VMS-based web / e-mail / datbase server once you conquer the$ > hardware/o.s. acquisition hurdles.  G What about the VMS license?  Not cheap if your operation is commercial   and honest.    I > So, if you *DO* know how to get VMS-capable hardware for "free", by all  > means: expound profusely.   H Most of my stuff was obtained through contacts here and in comp.sys.dec.  D My point is that there used to be a lot more VMS sites than they areH now.  Much of that hardware still exists.  With an entry-level license, 7 I suspect that some small businesses would be using it.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:45:42 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! $ Message-ID: <dqm2cm$deq$3@online.de>  < In article <11sqrhsldlulp71@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   J > > I'm not so sure.  This has been debated quite a bit here, of course.  K > > However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE,   > > why hasn't VMS taken off?  > G > The free (or almost compared to original cost) hardware is old stuff  D > being replaced.  What other environment uses used hardware?  None! > E > It's a rather nice endorsement of VMS, VAX, and Alpha that the old  J > hardware is still so useful.  Don't see many 486, 386, and such systems 
 > anymore. > E > Regardless, not many businesses would depend on discarded hardware.  > F > Also remember that most of that old hardware is running on hobbyist  > licenses.    Yes, of course.   H Suppose I were to set up a business and offer package solutions to small? businesses.  I would GUARANTEE them no downtime due to hardware H problems.  Just set up a cluster of a few VAXstation 4000 machines and, I in the rare event that something fails, replace it with another one from  G the heap.  Why shouldn't a business depend on it if someone guarantees  A that there will be no downtime due to hardware problems?  A real  ) businessman will look at the bottom line.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 18:59:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <437hgiF1lr82cU1@individual.net>  = In article <43ce71fe$0$67260$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, . 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:E >> IBM jumped on Linux to ride the marketing wave.  FreeBSD is a much G >> better candidate for the kind of things that IBM does, in particular J >> because it is not saddled with the GNU Public Virus which is very anti-H >> business.  IBM did not choose this greatr dis-advantage because Linux >> was "cute". >   > Why do you think GPL is bad?    + The list is way too long to enumerate here.   H >                               Licenses like BSD have the problem that G > you never know, if the main contributers of code suddenly decides to    > make the code closed source.    D So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows?E Notice, I was talking about IBM.  They are in business to make money. B Sometimes making money requires that you don't give everything you have to your competitors.     G >                               Of course the rest of the Internet can  H > continue developing on the open source releases, but it is frequently 2 > not possible to gather enough people to do it.    7 If it's worth doing, people will do it, if not well....   G >                                                Turning code licensed  I > under GPL into closed source is very difficult, because all holders of  9 > copyright for the code will have to be asked and agree.   I Keep telling yourself that.  First, there are companies out there now who K live up to the letter of the GPL while openly violating the spirit. Second, G having never been tested in court, there really is no way of knowing if L it has any legal standing at all.  There is no legal term called "Copyleft".H Third, I haven't followed it lately but the FSF used to have people signI over their ownership of projects and code to them.  Hmmmm......  I wonder G why? (Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get  you.)   I The front page of the GNU Project states: "Free as in Freedom".  How is a G system that restricts what you can do with code more free than a system H that lets you do anything with code with the only requirement being thatI the Copyright messages remain with it?  It is in fact, BSD which is truly & free and not stuff covered by the GPL.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 19:02:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <437hmeF1lr82cU2@individual.net>  A In article <6.1.2.0.2.20060118094958.02b83878@raptor.psccos.com>, ( 	Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:/ > At 09:38 AM 1/18/2006, Bill Gunshannon wrote: . >>In article <4378onF1lapj6U1@individual.net>,5 >>         Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes:  >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: 1 >> >> In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>, ? >> >>      David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> > >> >> L >> >>>Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time,M >> >>>and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't > >> >>>have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases. >> >>  >> >> A >> >> The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success?  >> >> I >> > In my case, FreeBSD didn't have the online press coverage that Linux H >> > did, but the clincher was that I could pick up a packaged copy withL >> > documentation from a local shop. I only had dial up access at the time. >>F >>But that is part of marketing.  Putting the product in the consumersG >>hand.  You can't buy VMS or FreeBSD at a local store, but you can buy  >>Linux or Windows.  > N > OK, put VMS laptops in a store and make them $1000.  Put a VMS desktop in a K > store and make it, say, $750.  Do a 100-million $$$ ad blitz.  You won't  & > sell enough to cover the ad costs.    G OK, but then, I am not one of the people who thinks we need VMS laptops  or even desktops.  Just apps.   J >                                   The first 2 questions people will ask I > are "what's VMS" and then "it runs MS-Office and all my games, right?".   ; Not with adequate marketing.  Nobody asks that about Linux.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:53:20 -0700  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 2 Message-ID: <1137613384_8621@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   Dave Froble wrote:  < > Check on the current licenses before you make such claims. >   9 Where can you get accurate and easy to understand current 8 license costs? Something that doesn't list 300 different8 options with no description of what the differences are.  : While it was Compaq, I once tried to get the license price> for UCX on an existing 3100/10. After being transfered through< some 20 different operators, I was finally quoted a price of8 $5,000 per user. Additional attempts to verify the price failed miserably.   9 Needless to say, that would have been too expensive as we 7 mostly wanted to use telnet to connect numerous PC's as : terminals (replacing existing VT's). Went with serial port: and terminal servers at less than 1/100 the cost per user.  7 I'd guess one of the problems with getting VMS into new 9 businesses is the irritation factor in attempting to find 9 prices for anything, and in the high prices compared with : other comparable solutions. Last time I checked, you could9 buy Windows (includes networking, etc.), and the hardware 5 (computer, keyboard, printer, etc.) for less than the ; price of a 1 user VMS license with no networking capability > and no media, on an ancient machine. And the prices randomally> change depending on the hardware. It's an extremely hard sell.  6 Linux (and *BSD) can be put on many old PC's (and most6 businesses usually have lots of old PC's) for handling6 many processes for almost no cost (mostly time/wages).2 Instead of trying to save money by using a limited9 number of VAX machines (and guessing the quantity of user < licenses you need on each), you can casually throw many PC's3 around a building, with little care about the cost.  It's an easy sell.  Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:46:21 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! = Message-ID: <43ce9b06$0$78281$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > The first 2 questions people  J > will ask are "what's VMS" and then "it runs MS-Office and all my games, 
 > right?".  D Lots of professional organizations would be very pleased that their D computers cannot run games.  They want their employees to use their G computers for work only, and they most certainly do not want people to  C run illegally copied games or any of the other virus infected crab  " people download from the Internet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:08:36 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060118130625.02a141d8@raptor.psccos.com>   K Then making it a commodity isn't what you want to do - and that's the only  J way to get enough volume to make it cheaply.  Aiming 100% at the business L market is what you're talking about, and that's the inherent problem that's  already being faced.  H ..and, by the way, while your statement is true WRT games, you're still L going to get the question about MS-Office.  Like it or not, that's the gold E standard used by an awful big number  (and VERY large proportion) of   businesses.   , At 12:46 PM 1/18/2006, Karsten Nyblad wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote:K >>The first 2 questions people will ask are "what's VMS" and then "it runs  & >>MS-Office and all my games, right?". > E >Lots of professional organizations would be very pleased that their  E >computers cannot run games.  They want their employees to use their  L >computers for work only, and they most certainly do not want people to run G >illegally copied games or any of the other virus infected crab people   >download from the Internet.   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:40:01 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! = Message-ID: <43cea79b$0$78281$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows?G > Notice, I was talking about IBM.  They are in business to make money. D > Sometimes making money requires that you don't give everything you > have to your competitors.     F I have never said everything had to be open source.  There is lots of E problems that are not ready to be solved by open source software and  H maybe never will.  E.g. ERP packages must constantly be updated because D laws are changed, etc., and the users of ERP must be sure that this  updating takes place.   9 > If it's worth doing, people will do it, if not well....   F It does not help the poor bastards that have become dependent on some F software package and suddenly have to pay for it or use resources for D maintaining it.  Feel free to say that that is their problem, but I D prefer to select software where such problems are not likely.  Some I software developers are acting like drug dealers:  Give your things away  L until the users are hugged and then charge them.  BSD make such tricks easy.  G >>                                               Turning code licensed  I >>under GPL into closed source is very difficult, because all holders of  9 >>copyright for the code will have to be asked and agree.  >  > K > Keep telling yourself that.  First, there are companies out there now who M > live up to the letter of the GPL while openly violating the spirit. Second, I > having never been tested in court, there really is no way of knowing if N > it has any legal standing at all.  There is no legal term called "Copyleft".J > Third, I haven't followed it lately but the FSF used to have people signK > over their ownership of projects and code to them.  Hmmmm......  I wonder I > why? (Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get  > you.)   B I guess you are thinking of, e.g., Redhat putting images on their G distributions such that their distribution may not be installed if you  I do not have a service contract.  Redhat cannot stop others from making a  I distribution that is equal to Redhat's except from the images, and there   is such a distribution.   I Many packages are not turned over to FSF, but people are still using the  H GPL as the license.  And, e.g., the STL library from SGI is distributed : together with GCC.  That library is under the BSD license.  G One reason for requiring people to sign over their copyright to FSF is  I that then FSF can change the license should that be needed.  That is not  I possible if hundreds of people and companies own the copyright.  Some of  K these people will be dead and some of the companies may not exist any more.   G Personally I am considering turning code over to FSF because I want it  @ to be open source, but I do not have the money for defending my E copyrights.    Thus violators of the copyright will laugh at me if I  B threaten with me taking legal action.  They will not laugh at FSF  threatening with legal action.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:43:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CEB67A.EFD6128A@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > concern.  Getting serious desktop apps back on VMS so that even A > if the front-end is a Windows box the back end can be a serious  > machine is the task at hand.      G It really wouldn't take that much. Get DECWRITE to have open-office XML B file format support (eg: write a CDA converter) and you could have? something that is makrketable as modern and usable. Write a CDA H converter for currrent WORD formats and you have something which is even more usable.  F And having CDA converters would also enable people to extract the textH from the documents cleanly. And one would never have to worry about WORD viri infesting DECWRITE.  F In terms of VMS on the desktop. While X is able to display apps on anyH desktop, from a performance point of view, wouldn't it be better to haveD a VMS workstation run the app locally (from disks in a boot node) ?   I Running X on every person's PCV would generate a lot of ethernet traffic.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:50:44 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CEB830.5AAF00E4@teksavvy.com>   Dan O'Reilly wrote: M > OK, put VMS laptops in a store and make them $1000.  Put a VMS desktop in a J > store and make it, say, $750.  Do a 100-million $$$ ad blitz.  You won'tK > sell enough to cover the ad costs.  The first 2 questions people will ask I > are "what's VMS" and then "it runs MS-Office and all my games, right?".   H No, you still don't get it. HP already makes laptops. Just make VMS able@ to run on those laptops as well as the other range of 8086 basedF machines HP sells as its primary product line. Then VMS can run on any4 of those (assuming proper standards are adhered to).  F We're not talking about developping a VMS laptop. You are correct, theE market wouldn't be big enough to justify expenditures. But making VMS H run on exisiting hardware that HP sells would be incremental revenue for% HP with no additional hardware costs.   H Now, imagine when potential customer goes on HP "main" web site and asksE to see laptop and is then given the option to order a Windows, Linux, B VMS or HP-UX laptop.  The "mass market" will see that VMS is stillF alicve and that is CRUCIAL if VMS is ever to be considered as a viableH option in business which now seeks "industry standard" viable solutions.  G Visibility is part of marketing. Making VMS run on the hardware that is E HP's core computing product is key to having VMS benefit from all the G marketing HP makes, compared to having VMS hidden away in a dark corner B of HP's web site, a corener found only by those who search for it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:59:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CEBA47.22A3FD60@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows?  2 Windows is actively being developped by its owner.  G VMS hasn't done any development on many parts of VMS in years. When was D the last time new functionality was added to TPU, just as giving theB ability to access logical name and symbol values from TPU ? (often& requestd feature in the past decades).  F The portions of VMS that the VMS managemebnt and engineers do not feel7 are ever going to be updated should be made opensource.   A For instance, there is an SGML CDA converter. It would be a great E starting point to convert this to an XML CDA converter (to read/write > open office file formats). But now, one must work from cryptic. documentation and totally re-invent the wheel.  H Another example is X11 and MOTIF. Both are now available as open source.D If VMS folks were to make the VMS specific portions available to theC community, then porting of the current versions of X/motif might be A possible. But as it stands, one would have to rewrite all the VMS  specific widgets from scractch.   E Making the source available doesn't garantee that it will get done by F volunteers. But not making it available garantees it doesn't get done.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:06:34 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060118150527.023a14f8@raptor.psccos.com>   K The "mass market" doesn't care.  The "mass market" doesn't make purchasing  J recommendations or sign the checks.  The IT manager is the one that would K kill the idea.  You're not going to make money selling VMS anything to Mom   & Pop Inc..   & At 02:50 PM 1/18/2006, JF Mezei wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote:O > > OK, put VMS laptops in a store and make them $1000.  Put a VMS desktop in a L > > store and make it, say, $750.  Do a 100-million $$$ ad blitz.  You won'tM > > sell enough to cover the ad costs.  The first 2 questions people will ask K > > are "what's VMS" and then "it runs MS-Office and all my games, right?".  > I >No, you still don't get it. HP already makes laptops. Just make VMS able A >to run on those laptops as well as the other range of 8086 based G >machines HP sells as its primary product line. Then VMS can run on any 5 >of those (assuming proper standards are adhered to).  > G >We're not talking about developping a VMS laptop. You are correct, the F >market wouldn't be big enough to justify expenditures. But making VMSI >run on exisiting hardware that HP sells would be incremental revenue for & >HP with no additional hardware costs. > I >Now, imagine when potential customer goes on HP "main" web site and asks F >to see laptop and is then given the option to order a Windows, Linux,C >VMS or HP-UX laptop.  The "mass market" will see that VMS is still G >alicve and that is CRUCIAL if VMS is ever to be considered as a viable I >option in business which now seeks "industry standard" viable solutions.  > H >Visibility is part of marketing. Making VMS run on the hardware that isF >HP's core computing product is key to having VMS benefit from all theH >marketing HP makes, compared to having VMS hidden away in a dark cornerC >of HP's web site, a corener found only by those who search for it.    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 14:03:40 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! B Message-ID: <1137621820.070249.69630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  H >VMS on the desktop is neither practical nor needed.  What is needed areI >desktop application that can run on the VMS servers and be used from the 0 >existing desktop.  Xwindows for the PC is free.  G Okay, I'll play Devil's Advocate here:  WHY do there need to be Xwindow F apps on OpenVMS so that the display can be directed to a desktop?  WhyE not client/server?  Web-based apps?  Or why not write the app for the F desktop in the first place?  XWindows for the PC is free, but is it in
 common usage?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:48:52 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 0 Message-ID: <11sthev1vgns760@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <11ssqlk9vagls0d@corp.supernews.com>,, > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>Z >>>In article <4358upF1lc6uiU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>  >>> 0 >>>>In article <43CD67AE.B81F4279@teksavvy.com>,4 >>>>	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>>> >>>>M >>>>>Also, consider the strategy: the more OSs are available on the 8086, the J >>>>>more it dilutes Windows in the numbers, and people will start to talkH >>>>>about OS-less server markets instead of Windows. It will be windowsB >>>>>against MacOS vs Linux vs Solaris Vs VMS vs Etc on thje 8086. >>>>K >>>>Except that all t hose OSes will not run on generic commodity hardware. J >>>>MacOS certainly won't, Solaris certainly doesn't (look at their HCL! IJ >>>>have.)  ANd there is no chance that VMS would. The only OS that can beH >>>>expected to run on pretty much any x86 platform is still going to be >>>>Windows. >>>  >>> 0 >>>Depending on what you mean by the word "run". >>E >>Possibly it would be more accurate to say that the availability of  2 >>device drivers for windoz exceeds all other OSs. >  > G > You can play word games all you want.  As far as the industry and the H > majority of serious users are contained, Windows is the OS that works,H > Linux is the primary alternative.  VMS isn't even a blip on the RADAR.  A I wasn't playing word games.  I was stating reality.  When a mfg  E produces a device, if required they also produce a device driver for  G windows.  Or purchase the ability to use another company's driver that  I will work with their device.  There are many devices that will work with  I windows, but not with other Operating Systems, and my experience is that  / VMS is at the bottom of the device driver list.   A > Playing word games and denigrating Windows in this very limited > > playground neither helps solve the problem nor causes MS anyA > concern.  Getting serious desktop apps back on VMS so that even A > if the front-end is a Windows box the back end can be a serious A > machine is the task at hand.  Maybe if as much effort was spent @ > trying to convince HP that VMS can be used to enhance the sale@ > of what they see as their bread and butter as is spent arguingA > about a port that may or may not come about (and doesn't appear @ > to be in HP's plans right now) we could actually get something > done,   H The problem I see in the real business world is that some people are so H enamored with their desktop productivity solutions, that they feel that F the back end should also be windows.  So, get the apps on VMS, but be G prepared for a hugh yawn and a 'so what' when you try to get people to   run a VMS back end.   I Only when a company is burned so bad that the windows advocates lose all  H credibility could VMS or another OS have a chance for consideration.  I F haven't yet seen such an event.  I'm sure one has happened somewhere, I byt VMS doesn't need ones, VMS would need thousands.  But even then, the  E decision makers may not know that there is any alternatives to being  0 burned periodically.  Oh no!  Back to marketing!   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:51:04 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CEC64F.69B4EE5E@teksavvy.com>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > L > The "mass market" doesn't care.  The "mass market" doesn't make purchasingK > recommendations or sign the checks.  The IT manager is the one that would L > kill the idea.  You're not going to make money selling VMS anything to Mom
 > & Pop Inc..     D And advertising costs real money. Yet, it is a necessary evil to getP your product out there, known and seen as a viable solution worth investigating.  G Yes, you could have a massive advertising push to get VMS back into the C market quickly. Or you can make smart moves to make VMS ride on the E coattails of the 8086 marketing until it is strong enough to come out  and shout it name out loud.   D We're nowhere near the "shouting" stage. VMS must make baby steps inH marketing first. The first step is to move VMS to a marketable platform,G it can then regain some strength and applications  and finally come out  fo the closet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:01:18 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 0 Message-ID: <11sti67ss8bl84c@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <11sqrhsldlulp71@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  > I >>>I'm not so sure.  This has been debated quite a bit here, of course.   J >>>However, considering that one can get VAX and ALPHA hardware FOR FREE,  >>>why hasn't VMS taken off? >>G >>The free (or almost compared to original cost) hardware is old stuff  D >>being replaced.  What other environment uses used hardware?  None! >>E >>It's a rather nice endorsement of VMS, VAX, and Alpha that the old  J >>hardware is still so useful.  Don't see many 486, 386, and such systems 
 >>anymore. >>E >>Regardless, not many businesses would depend on discarded hardware.  >>F >>Also remember that most of that old hardware is running on hobbyist  >>licenses.  >  >  > Yes, of course.  > J > Suppose I were to set up a business and offer package solutions to smallA > businesses.  I would GUARANTEE them no downtime due to hardware J > problems.  Just set up a cluster of a few VAXstation 4000 machines and, K > in the rare event that something fails, replace it with another one from  I > the heap.  Why shouldn't a business depend on it if someone guarantees  C > that there will be no downtime due to hardware problems?  A real  + > businessman will look at the bottom line.  >   E Because a windows advocate will make the statement that the business  I cannot bet it's future on cast off hardware.  They'll ask the vary valid  E question, what happens when you run out of old hardware.  It doesn't  > have to be entire systems, just one piece that becomes scarce.  I For example, 50 pin narrow SCSI disk drives.  They are mechanical.  They   cannot run forever.   G For the decision maker who has a windows desktop, and is familiar with  G it needing to be replaced every several years, he'll buy the argument,    and there goes VMS out the door.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jan 2006 23:33:01 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4381hcF1lvh8fU1@individual.net>  , In article <43CEB67A.EFD6128A@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:B >> concern.  Getting serious desktop apps back on VMS so that evenB >> if the front-end is a Windows box the back end can be a serious  >> machine is the task at hand.  >  > I > It really wouldn't take that much. Get DECWRITE to have open-office XML D > file format support (eg: write a CDA converter) and you could haveA > something that is makrketable as modern and usable. Write a CDA J > converter for currrent WORD formats and you have something which is even > more usable.  C OK, so you have wordprocessor.  OpenOffice is a bit more than that.    > H > And having CDA converters would also enable people to extract the textJ > from the documents cleanly. And one would never have to worry about WORD > viri infesting DECWRITE.  I WORD viri rely on the WORD macro mechanism.  OpenOffice isn't susceptable  either.    > H > In terms of VMS on the desktop. While X is able to display apps on anyJ > desktop, from a performance point of view, wouldn't it be better to haveF > a VMS workstation run the app locally (from disks in a boot node) ?   G Which puts us back to desktop VMS which is always going to be expensive G and require more hardware than the average user is likely to be willing  to purchase.   > K > Running X on every person's PCV would generate a lot of ethernet traffic.   H We did it with labs and office machines when ethernet was coax, 10Mb andI half duplex with no real problems.  Today, as a minimum, you are going to G have 100Mb full-duplex and with Gigabit cards in the $20 range, I don't ) think bandwidth is going to be a problem.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2006 00:09:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4383lgF1m6d6vU1@individual.net>  = In article <43cea79b$0$78281$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, . 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G >> So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows? H >> Notice, I was talking about IBM.  They are in business to make money.E >> Sometimes making money requires that you don't give everything you  >> have to your competitors.   > H > I have never said everything had to be open source.  There is lots of G > problems that are not ready to be solved by open source software and  J > maybe never will.  E.g. ERP packages must constantly be updated because F > laws are changed, etc., and the users of ERP must be sure that this  > updating takes place.  > : >> If it's worth doing, people will do it, if not well.... > H > It does not help the poor bastards that have become dependent on some H > software package and suddenly have to pay for it or use resources for F > maintaining it.  Feel free to say that that is their problem, but I F > prefer to select software where such problems are not likely.  Some K > software developers are acting like drug dealers:  Give your things away  N > until the users are hugged and then charge them.  BSD make such tricks easy.  I What people do with code is not BSD's problem.  Feel free to use whatever G agreement you want on your software.  But the GNU people could at least H have the integrity to stop saying the GPL is all about "freedom" when it< actually encumbers the code just as bad as AT&T and USL did.   > H >>>                                               Turning code licensed J >>>under GPL into closed source is very difficult, because all holders of : >>>copyright for the code will have to be asked and agree. >>   >>  L >> Keep telling yourself that.  First, there are companies out there now whoN >> live up to the letter of the GPL while openly violating the spirit. Second,J >> having never been tested in court, there really is no way of knowing ifO >> it has any legal standing at all.  There is no legal term called "Copyleft". K >> Third, I haven't followed it lately but the FSF used to have people sign L >> over their ownership of projects and code to them.  Hmmmm......  I wonderJ >> why? (Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get >> you.) > D > I guess you are thinking of, e.g., Redhat putting images on their I > distributions such that their distribution may not be installed if you  K > do not have a service contract.  Redhat cannot stop others from making a  K > distribution that is equal to Redhat's except from the images, and there   > is such a distribution.   H Redhat are a bunch of amateurs.  There are people who have been doing itI much longer.  So, does Redhat still have two different distros?  One they  give away and one they sell?   > , > Many packages are not turned over to FSF,   I That may be true, but it doesn't diminsh the questionability of the FSF's K actions if they are still doing it.  It just means more people have noticed 2 that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes at all.  K >                                           but people are still using the   > GPL as the license.     G Then they should not call it "free" software as it is encumbered and it ( further encumbers everything it touches.  J >                      And, e.g., the STL library from SGI is distributed < > together with GCC.  That library is under the BSD license.  B Yeah, the GNU guys have no problem taking the work of others while. complaining about what bastards they are.  :-)   > I > One reason for requiring people to sign over their copyright to FSF is  ? > that then FSF can change the license should that be needed.     H Isn't that what I just said could happen with a system like this?  ThereG is nothing to stop them from privatizing all the software that has been  signed over to them.    J >                                                             That is not K > possible if hundreds of people and companies own the copyright.  Some of  M > these people will be dead and some of the companies may not exist any more.  > I > Personally I am considering turning code over to FSF because I want it  B > to be open source, but I do not have the money for defending my  > copyrights.       H If you release it on the INTERNET with your Copyrights in place, it willF be OpenSource forever.  No one can make it suddenly disappear from theF thousands of machines that will archive it inside of a couple of days.E What you really want is to force anyone who decides to use it to also I make their work OpenSource thus encumbering all future software.  Doesn't  sound particularly free to me.  D >             Thus violators of the copyright will laugh at me if I D > threaten with me taking legal action.  They will not laugh at FSF   > threatening with legal action.  H The FSF and it's silly Gnu Piblic Virus have never been tested in court.G Until the first case, you don't know that they have any more power than G you do as an individual.  And as I said, there are people violating the I spirit of the GPL now and I don't see anyone suing them.  And I don't see , them loosing any sleep over the possibility.  L If you want your code to be public, make it public.  If you want to restrictL who can use it and how it can be used, then only make it available to peopleI under a license.  But don't release encumbered software and call it free. D Free software has been around a lot longer than the FSF and the GPL.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2006 00:13:59 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4383u7F1m6d6vU2@individual.net>  , In article <43CEBA47.22A3FD60@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G >> So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows?  > 4 > Windows is actively being developped by its owner. > I > VMS hasn't done any development on many parts of VMS in years. When was F > the last time new functionality was added to TPU, just as giving theD > ability to access logical name and symbol values from TPU ? (often( > requestd feature in the past decades). > H > The portions of VMS that the VMS managemebnt and engineers do not feel9 > are ever going to be updated should be made opensource.    Why?     > C > For instance, there is an SGML CDA converter. It would be a great G > starting point to convert this to an XML CDA converter (to read/write @ > open office file formats). But now, one must work from cryptic0 > documentation and totally re-invent the wheel.  L Or, convince them that there is a business argument for it.  You do remember- that the owners of VMS are a business, right?    > J > Another example is X11 and MOTIF. Both are now available as open source.F > If VMS folks were to make the VMS specific portions available to theE > community, then porting of the current versions of X/motif might be C > possible. But as it stands, one would have to rewrite all the VMS ! > specific widgets from scractch.  > G > Making the source available doesn't garantee that it will get done by H > volunteers. But not making it available garantees it doesn't get done.  G Which still doesn't provide any justification for wanting someone to do 9 something with their property that they don't want to do.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2006 00:23:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <4384fpF1m6d6vU3@individual.net>  B In article <1137621820.070249.69630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, 	davidc@montagar.com writes:I >>VMS on the desktop is neither practical nor needed.  What is needed are J >>desktop application that can run on the VMS servers and be used from the1 >>existing desktop.  Xwindows for the PC is free.  > I > Okay, I'll play Devil's Advocate here:  WHY do there need to be Xwindow E > apps on OpenVMS so that the display can be directed to a desktop?     I Because the apps already exist and it is likely to be easier to port them 3 than to rewrite them for a totally different model.   G >                                                                   Why ' > not client/server?  Web-based apps?     I Because contrary to what some people keep trying to do, everything is not 2 the web.  The right tool for the job and all that.  F >                                     Or why not write the app for the > desktop in the first place?     F We already have that. It's called MSOffice.  I thought the idea was toE move away from that and bring VMS back into the picture.  There is no ? desktop VMS and it is unlikely that there will be anytime soon.   H >                              XWindows for the PC is free, but is it in > common usage?   I Well, considering how many people were always looking for things like the G MIX (Free) Xserver and asking about commercial packages like Xwin32 and E Xceed, I assume there is a sizable demand.  I don't think the guys at   Cygwin track the number, though.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:58:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CEE421.A4CEAE08@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   I > Which puts us back to desktop VMS which is always going to be expensive I > and require more hardware than the average user is likely to be willing  > to purchase.  F Consider that VMS still runs on an allmighty  16 megabyte Microvax II.C Consider that the current crop of 8086 machines have tons of excess C memory and capacity to handle the inefficient Windows. VMS will not G require more expnsive hardware than Windows, it will run really fast on 5 machines designed to run Windows at acceptable speed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:14:20 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! + Message-ID: <43CF040C.7DD3546C@comcast.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:0 > > In article <4378onF1lapj6U1@individual.net>,4 > >       Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> writes: > >  > >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>0 > >>>In article <43CD6C37.F9BA4B27@comcast.net>,> > >>>     David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > >>L > >>>>Linux took off because folks were already running '386es (at the time,M > >>>>and later machines), were already subscribed to a BBS or ISP and didn't > > >>>>have to pay to extra acquire the software in most cases. > >>>  > >>> @ > >>>The same is true of FreeBSD, why is Linux a bigger success? > >>>  > >>H > >>In my case, FreeBSD didn't have the online press coverage that LinuxG > >>did, but the clincher was that I could pick up a packaged copy with K > >>documentation from a local shop. I only had dial up access at the time.  > >  > > H > > But that is part of marketing.  Putting the product in the consumersI > > hand.  You can't buy VMS or FreeBSD at a local store, but you can buy  > > Linux or Windows.  > >  > 
 > Exactly.  A I've purchased FreeBSD at everything from a bookstore to CompUSA.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:12:04 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! + Message-ID: <43CF0384.45022B6A@comcast.net>    davidc@montagar.com wrote: > J > >VMS on the desktop is neither practical nor needed.  What is needed areK > >desktop application that can run on the VMS servers and be used from the 2 > >existing desktop.  Xwindows for the PC is free. > I > Okay, I'll play Devil's Advocate here:  WHY do there need to be Xwindow H > apps on OpenVMS so that the display can be directed to a desktop?  Why > not client/server?    G Think: Citrix. Citrix is an "X-windows" paradigm for MS-Windows in that > the program runs on a "server", but is displayed on a desktop.  3 > Web-based apps?  Or why not write the app for the  > desktop in the first place?    Think: security, stability.   E Windows is unstable enough without adding the complexity of Citrix on F top of it, not to mention the bandwidth demands. Let a virus or a wormG through the firewall and kiss your enterprise-wide app. (not to mention > the desktop clients) good-bye (speaking from experience here).  E Now, take that same app., and develop it for an X-capable deployment, H run it on a multi-user o.s. like VMS and VOILA! Secure, stable operatingH environments with VASTLY improved performance and reliability. The folks, at HIPAA will "thank" you, to say the least.  G How much could corporate America save in lost business and productivity 6 if it didn't have to deal with Windows-related issues?  B Ask anyone who has ever dealt with it how much better the back-endF portion performs when the database and middle-ware can run on the sameE node. Imagine the improvements possible when the app, the middle-ware F (do we really need that anymore?) and the database all run on the same VMS node(s)...  + > XWindows for the PC is free, but is it in  > common usage?   F App. availability will be a strong deciding factor there. What kind of! business did Citrix do last year?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:15:15 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 0 Message-ID: <11su4iq8uu6ki28@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > In article <43CEBA47.22A3FD60@teksavvy.com>,2 > 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>G >>>So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows?  >>4 >>Windows is actively being developped by its owner. >>I >>VMS hasn't done any development on many parts of VMS in years. When was F >>the last time new functionality was added to TPU, just as giving theD >>ability to access logical name and symbol values from TPU ? (often( >>requestd feature in the past decades). >>H >>The portions of VMS that the VMS managemebnt and engineers do not feel9 >>are ever going to be updated should be made opensource.  >  >  > Why?    I Maybe we should suggest to JF that if he has some money in the bank that  I he hasn't touched in years, maybe he should make it available to whoever   wants to make a withdrawal?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:22:25 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 0 Message-ID: <11su508k9sn0t73@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > L >>The "mass market" doesn't care.  The "mass market" doesn't make purchasingK >>recommendations or sign the checks.  The IT manager is the one that would L >>kill the idea.  You're not going to make money selling VMS anything to Mom
 >>& Pop Inc..  >  >  > F > And advertising costs real money. Yet, it is a necessary evil to getR > your product out there, known and seen as a viable solution worth investigating.  I The cheapest and widest exposure is when the trade press writes articles  A about your product.  If you can get their attention, the rest is  E basically free advertising.  It's better than paid advertising.  How  F many people just skip right over advertising.  But they read articles.  ; At the risk of redundancy, can I say, 'security challenge'?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:00:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CF1CEB.7EF1ECDF@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > Maybe we should suggest to JF that if he has some money in the bank thatJ > he hasn't touched in years, maybe he should make it available to whoever > wants to make a withdrawal?     A If I had money in the bank that was stuck at 0% interest rate and F someone came to me and offered to manage that money with a change that7 it might actually get me a return, I might consider it.     G When you look at all the abandonned software since the Palmer years, it E remains hidden in a vault, not yielding any return to VMS and in fact F hindering VSM because VMS gets old/tired with very old software on it.  D And since VMS management have no plans to ever update such software,9 making it opensource might have a positive impact on VMS.   A Consider making TPU open source and seeing it ported to Linux for G instance. Imagive TPU superceding vi as the default editor on Unix. VMS F would lay claims to this and the Unix community would start to realiseJ that there is value in VMS and they might now look at VMS as some dead OS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:04:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! , Message-ID: <43CF1DCD.F2487A68@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > The cheapest and widest exposure is when the trade press writes articles > about your product.   F Agreed. But to get that going, you need strategically done advertising and press releases.     = > At the risk of redundancy, can I say, 'security challenge'?     C You want publicity ? Consider HP announcing in a widely distributed E press release that it is going to fund volunteer efforts to port Open G office to VMS which would allow HP to pitch VMS as a secure solution to 8 governments who have standardised on OpenOffice formats.  # THAT would get people's attentions.   H Forget the security challenge. It is easy to convince people that MVS isF secure, but nobody is interested in using 3270 terminals to edit files* that have maximum line length of 80 bytes.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 23:06:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 3 Message-ID: <dDjVxWCreLz1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43CEBA47.22A3FD60@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G >> So?  Why does everythng have to be OpenSource?  Is VMS?  Is Windows?  > 4 > Windows is actively being developped by its owner. > @ > VMS hasn't done any development on many parts of VMS in years.  @ And the result of _that_ tragedy is virtually zero visibility on- the security vulnerability discussion groups.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 23:11:31 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: Itanium lap tops are needed now! 3 Message-ID: <NxWl9tzigc47@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <1137618199_8799@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> writes:  5 > Port OpenOffice to VMS. Make a desktop VMS machine.  > D > OpenOffice is becoming a "known name", and is good enough for most	 > people.   1 Just not good enough for the VMS I know and love.   I http://secunia.com/advisories/14444/ lists 8 Security Advisories for VMS.   C Fully 6 of those are related to code written in C ported from other > operating systems.  What reason is there to believe OpenOffice would be any different ?   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:29:46 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: KVM Switches 2 Message-ID: <06011815294655_20331674@antinode.org>  # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   K > I was under the impression that the only difference amongst 433/500/600au K > was the switch setting for the speed, at least having had all three, that  > is what I observed.   F    Note that the firmware on an old one (without on-board SCSI or USB)D will call it an "a" until you plug in a SCSI card (like a KZPBA), at4 which time it changes (as if by magic) into an "au".  @    I don't know what the new ones do, but I assume that with the( on-board SCSI, they all always say "au".  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:22:56 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches ( Message-ID: <ops3lp4ittzgicya@hyrrokkin>  9 On 18 Jan 2006 08:09:04 -0800, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com   ! <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  > Tom Linden wrote:  > @ >> I was under the impression that the only difference amongst   >> 433/500/600auI >> was the switch setting for the speed, at least having had all three,    >> that  >> is what I observed. > G > No, there are two versions of the motherboard - the Miata MX5 and GL. I > The newer version (Miata GL) has the USB ports and also  the Cypress IO I > controller chip which allows booting from an IDE CDRom and hard drives. I >  The older version (Miata MX5) lacks the USB ports and has the Intel IO G > chip which will not boot IDE.  The PWS433 may be old enough that only H > the older version was produced.  I think the switch happened somewhereE > in the production of the PWS 500.  I have one of the 500's with the  > Intel IO chip. > G > For all the gruesome details see the VMS FAQ Section 14.4.4  "OpenVMS 2 > on the Personal Workstation -a and -au series? " >  > www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq   H Maybe it is a nomenclature problem, I thout the 'a'was the Miata and the 'au' was the Miata GL  >    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 21:43:32 -0800; From: "vmsmangler@earthlink.net" <vmsmangler@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: KVM Switches B Message-ID: <1137649412.933923.19960@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Tom Linden wrote: 9 > On 18 Jan 2006 08:09:04 -0800, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com # > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > >  > > Tom Linden wrote:  > > @ > >> I was under the impression that the only difference amongst > >> 433/500/600auI > >> was the switch setting for the speed, at least having had all three, 	 > >> that  > >> is what I observed. > > I > > No, there are two versions of the motherboard - the Miata MX5 and GL. K > > The newer version (Miata GL) has the USB ports and also  the Cypress IO K > > controller chip which allows booting from an IDE CDRom and hard drives. K > >  The older version (Miata MX5) lacks the USB ports and has the Intel IO I > > chip which will not boot IDE.  The PWS433 may be old enough that only J > > the older version was produced.  I think the switch happened somewhereG > > in the production of the PWS 500.  I have one of the 500's with the  > > Intel IO chip. > > I > > For all the gruesome details see the VMS FAQ Section 14.4.4  "OpenVMS 4 > > on the Personal Workstation -a and -au series? " > >  > > www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq  > J > Maybe it is a nomenclature problem, I thout the 'a'was the Miata and the > 'au' was the Miata GL  > >   E Let me clear up a few things here. First of all each of my DPW's have  identical keyboards and mice. ? Keyboards are LK46W's. That is the keyboard with white keys and ! includes 2 Alt keys and 2 Compose F keys. Both machines have been working for years with the keyboards and mice plugged directly intoE their respective connectors on the back of the mini-towers. So, there ! is no problem with the keyboards.   F The 433au I bought new in May 1998, shortly after they were announced.@ This was to replace the VAX 3600 I had at home at the time. This& machine also has the nickname "Miata".  D The 500au was "given" to me when I retired in July 2004. It does not have the nickname "Miata" F althought it could be called a partial Miata GL since it has the holes for the USB connectors but w/o the connectors themselves.  C However, they both have the Intel SIO chip and onboard SCSI and the  boot drives are SCSI. Also, 4 both are at the highest SRM available for the DPW's.  F By the way, there was a side effect using the switch on the 500au. The mouse was extremely G sensitive. A little twitch would send the cursor all the way across the  screen. Without the switch the mouse was much less sensitive.   Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:26:16 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: LK463+ Message-ID: <dqmbpo$rso$1@news01.intel.com>    Forrest Kenney wrote: @ > 	Attached is the HID keyboard page definitions.  ID's with "*"H > are used by LK463.  The HID table is complete but I could have missed  > a mapping for the LK463. >  > 	 > Forrest  > , > Usage ID      Usage ID          Usage Name > (Dec) (*)      (Hex)@ > 0 *              00              Reserved (no event indicated)4 > 1 *              02              Keyboard POSTFail: > 3 *              03              Keyboard ErrorUndefined   [snip]  : > 50 *             32              Keyboard Non-US # and ~3 > 51 *             33              Keyboard ; and : 3 > 52 *             34              Keyboard  and  4 B > 53 *             35              Keyboard Grave Accent and Tilde1 > 54              36              Keyboard, and < 2 > 55              37              Keyboard . and >2 > 56              38              Keyboard / and ?4 > 57              39              Keyboard Caps Lock. > 58 *             3A              Keyboard F1. > 59 *             3B              Keyboard F2. > 60 *             3C              Keyboard F3   [snip]  ? Surely the LK463 must use 54-57, or some alternatives.  I don't  see them marked in your table.   	Thanks, Ken --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:03:00 -0500 , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> Subject: Re: LK463& Message-ID: <43CEBB14.1332D8FB@hp.com>  4 	Like I said I could have missed a couple the LK463 F specification has a really complex table with really tiny font.  Those6 are ones that I managed to miss there could be others.     Forrest      Ken Fairfield wrote: >  > Forrest Kenney wrote: G > >       Attached is the HID keyboard page definitions.  ID's with "*" I > > are used by LK463.  The HID table is complete but I could have missed  > > a mapping for the LK463. > >  > >  > > Forrest  > > . > > Usage ID      Usage ID          Usage Name > > (Dec) (*)      (Hex)B > > 0 *              00              Reserved (no event indicated)6 > > 1 *              02              Keyboard POSTFail< > > 3 *              03              Keyboard ErrorUndefined >  > [snip] > < > > 50 *             32              Keyboard Non-US # and ~5 > > 51 *             33              Keyboard ; and : 5 > > 52 *             34              Keyboard  and  4 D > > 53 *             35              Keyboard Grave Accent and Tilde3 > > 54              36              Keyboard, and < 4 > > 55              37              Keyboard . and >4 > > 56              38              Keyboard / and ?6 > > 57              39              Keyboard Caps Lock0 > > 58 *             3A              Keyboard F10 > > 59 *             3B              Keyboard F20 > > 60 *             3C              Keyboard F3 >  > [snip] > A > Surely the LK463 must use 54-57, or some alternatives.  I don't   > see them marked in your table. >  >         Thanks, Ken  > --8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >  > Ken Fairfield # > D1C Automation VMS System Support $ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jan 2006 11:56:46 -0800 From: tim.beaudin@hp.comJ Subject: Re: sws2.1 with mod_perl, exit() after $query->redirect() problemB Message-ID: <1137614206.447346.80970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Hi,   8  For now can you try changing the "exit" to a "return" ?   Thanks.  Tim    junezheng@eastlink.ca wrote:H > I newly migrate from CSWS1.3 to  using sws2.1 and csws_perl2.1 on OPEN	 > VMS8.2.  > @ > My perl CGI scripts normally have if statements saying that ifF > this...do redirect to another URL and exit(), otherwise, continue toF > display the form. These scripts used to work on CSWS1.3, now showingC > "unexpect network read error, can't access start file...." on the F > browser. I noticed that it is exit() that follows $query->redirect() > causes the trouble.  >  > Test1.CGI (works):
 > use CGI; > $query =CGI->new();  > print D > $query->redirect(-url=>"http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com"); >  > TEST2.CGI (does not work).
 > use CGI; > $query =CGI->new();  > print D > $query->redirect(-url=>"http://dymc.dymaxion.ca/cgi-bin/jy1.com");	 > exit();  > C > I am using  ModPerl::Registry for my perl CGIs. I understand that G > exit() is actually ModPerl::Util::exit() which only exits the request I > not the process, but I don't understand why it will affect my redirect.  >  > Any help is appreciated. > G > June Young, Software Development                   bus: (902)422-1973  > x144D > Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St.,      fax: (902)421-12678 > Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada           mailto: > JYoung@dymaxion.ca > http://www.dymaxion.ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:09:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> B Subject: Re: TCPIP Services: management of cluster alias interface, Message-ID: <43CEBC99.6B9DCA25@teksavvy.com>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:N > Whenever an IP address is configured on an interface it generates gratuitousN > arp packets.  All hosts on the LAN will update their arp caches accordingly.H > In this way, the hosts/routers on the LAN will know how to find the IP" > address at its new MAC location.    D I finally did a test yesterday. And while the second node immediatlyD assumed the cluster alias IP address, the router's ARP cache was NOTH updated. I had to manually login to the router, seek out my paper manual' for the command to flush its ARP cache.   E I will have to carefully read the RFP for ARP to see if the router is E guilty or not. And I may have to trace the ethernet to see if the VMS 5 machine really does send out a gratuitous ARP packet.   C I say this  to warn others that it isn't a given that a router will # automatically update its ARP table.   + (this is a netgear 314 wit Zyxel firmware).   B I will have to do tests on other machines to see how the VMS boxes' supposed gratuitous ARP message behave.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:47:36 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)) Subject: Re: UNIX shm* functions for VMS? 2 Message-ID: <06011815473613_20331674@antinode.org>  * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>  H > The SHM stuff in DECwindows was provided explicitly for the X11 shared" > memory extension (XShmPutImage).  D    The DECwindows functions seem to have limited functionality.  TheD shmget( key, size, flags) function seems to demand that key = 0, for example.  G > I seem to think that the CRTL did/was/is adding a real SHM extension.   F    The latest HTML "HP C Run-Time Library Reference Manual for OpenVMS+ Systems" seems still not to mention shm*().   H    For SETI@home, I'm not sure if this stuff in BOINC is really used, so+ for now I'm trying it with dummy functions.   A    My major problem now is the fact that the C++ standard library C IOStreams stuff works only with /FLOAT=G_FLOAT on Alpha, which is a H major handicap.  The affected file (a big one) in the SETI@home code hasH more than 300 instances where this might cause trouble, so it would be aF real pain to modify the code.  (Especially for someone with my limitedH C++ expertise.)  "in >> center;" looks so simple, and it'd work, too, ifF only I could link the stuff with a suitably compiled run-time library.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.037 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                              /&p|1Id"8_L"5(by/&,|1eId78,_L"aYbY,|1eId#8,_L"|1\;H-p	DN$ v/&|1I8_L"Sa'b Xp8D.I
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