0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 24 Jan 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 48      Contents:# Acquiring OpenVMS/VAX Install Media ( Re: Alpha Emulator running on Windows XP( Re: Alpha Emulator running on Windows XP( Re: Alpha Emulator running on Windows XP4 Re: Copy or Backup & keep same date/time attributes.4 Re: Copy or Backup & keep same date/time attributes.4 Re: Copy or Backup & keep same date/time attributes. Re: ETHERMON for Alpha? ) Re: forgetting my DCL: what am I missing? ) Re: forgetting my DCL: what am I missing? , Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator, Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator, Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator, Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator, Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator Re: HP Strategy meeting  Re: HP Strategy meeting 3 Re: Intel, AMD CPUs nothing more than alpha clones! 4 Re: Mozilla: bookmarks and other stuff disappearing?$ problems with a new vms installation( Re: problems with a new vms installation( Re: problems with a new vms installation( Re: problems with a new vms installation( Re: problems with a new vms installation( Re: problems with a new vms installation( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator( Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator Re: SimH V3.5-2 released Re: SimH V3.5-2 released3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" * Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page& Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now!& Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now!& Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now!& Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now!  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:37:30 +0000 * From: Gary Parker <g.j.parker@lboro.ac.uk>, Subject: Acquiring OpenVMS/VAX Install Media8 Message-ID: <pan.2006.01.24.16.37.29.706840@lboro.ac.uk>  	 Hi folks, F 	I recently discovered the SIMH emulator and fancied reliving my early= 	University 'frame days by setting up my own VAX environment.   E I've signed up with HP on their educational license scheme (as I work I at Loughborough University) for OpenVMS and have acquired OS licenses for J VAX and Alpha along with the Layered Product licenses but I'm at a loss asG to how to now get hold of any install media or images thereof. It seems F that Montagar sold media kits at one point but their hobbyist web page5 doesn't seem to have been updated for around 3 years.   3 I understand that as I have an official license for J all the relevant software now I should be able to make a copy of any mediaJ was told that folk in this forum are usually pretty helpful regarding thatI sort of thing. I have a ++fast Internet connection here (God Bless JANET) D so downloading or providing space isn't an issue if someone would be willing to oblige.  F Please note that allowing me access to this software is guaranteeing aI never ending torrent of dumb newbie questions from me to the group once I I get it installed, it's been a long time since VMS and I saw each other :)    Thanks in advance, Gary   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:36:53 -0800 From: comp.os.vms@hotmail.com 1 Subject: Re: Alpha Emulator running on Windows XP B Message-ID: <1138120613.704415.43980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   This is the Charor product. 8 The SRI site does not mention availability last I looked  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:37:01 -0800 From: comp.os.vms@hotmail.com 1 Subject: Re: Alpha Emulator running on Windows XP B Message-ID: <1138120621.875111.87790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   This is the Charon product. 8 The SRI site does not mention availability last I looked  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:53:51 -0800 From: comp.os.vms@hotmail.com 1 Subject: Re: Alpha Emulator running on Windows XP B Message-ID: <1138121631.272787.85280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Sorry about the double post. The post should have read:   "This is the Charon product?: The SRI site does not mention availability last I looked "   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:07:07 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: Copy or Backup & keep same date/time attributes. 0 Message-ID: <11tbkfrto2kpu64@corp.supernews.com>  
 AEF wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>Lee Morgan wrote:  >>J >>>As there aren't any parameter's for copy to retain original file dates,G >>>the best way I believe is to backup your data to a saveset, copy the H >>>saveset to the remote node and then use backup to restore the saveset >>>to your required location.  >>> , >>>This will ensure the dates remain intact. >>>  >> >>A simple test on VAX/VMS V7.2  >> >>$ di/date h1.txt >> >>Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[DFE]  >>J >>H1.TXT;7                       15/15      24-OCT-2002 15:28:16.03  [DFE]
 >>       ) >>  >>Total of 1 file, 15/15 blocks. >>$ back h1.txt disk1: >>$ di/date disk1:h1 >> >>Directory DKA100:[DFE] >>J >>H1.TXT;7                       15/15      24-OCT-2002 15:28:16.03  [DFE]
 >>       ) >>F >>This indicates, as I believed, that the intermediate save set is not >>required.  >> >>--6 >>David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450 >  > [...]  >  > G > The creation date-time will also be preserved by COPY but only if you H > don't specify a name, type, or version number in the output file-spec.F > The modification and expiration dates will not be preserved by COPY. > A > BACKUP will preserve the creation, modification, and expiration 6 > date-times, even if you change the name of the file! > I > However, you want to copy files to another node! You can't do that with I > BACKUP without putting the files in a save set first. You can with COPY G > and it will preserve the creation date-time across nodes, but only if @ > you don't explicitly change the name, type, or version number. >  > AEF  >   A Yeah, I originally read 'another node', but forgot when I read a  5 subsequent post.  I'm getting too old for this stuff.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:08:53 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: Copy or Backup & keep same date/time attributes. 0 Message-ID: <11tbkj615jsb2c2@corp.supernews.com>   Rob Brown wrote:) > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Dave Froble wrote:  >  >> Lee Morgan wrote: >>K >>> As there aren't any parameter's for copy to retain original file dates, H >>> the best way I believe is to backup your data to a saveset, copy theI >>> saveset to the remote node and then use backup to restore the saveset  >>> to your required location. >>> - >>> This will ensure the dates remain intact.  >>>  >>  >> A simple test on VAX/VMS V7.2 >> >> $ di/date h1.txt  >>  >> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[DFE] >>F >> H1.TXT;7                       15/15      24-OCT-2002 15:28:16.03  
 >> [DFE] ) >>! >> Total of 1 file, 15/15 blocks.  >> $ back h1.txt disk1:  >> $ di/date disk1:h1  >> >> Directory DKA100:[DFE]  >>F >> H1.TXT;7                       15/15      24-OCT-2002 15:28:16.03  
 >> [DFE] ) >>H >> This indicates, as I believed, that the intermediate save set is not  >> required. >  > J > The original poster (not quoted in the article you responded to), asked ) > about copying the file to another node.  > - > $ HELP BACKUP PARAMETERS (in VMS 7.1) says:  > H >>>>>>>>>> You can specify DECnet node names in save-set specifications  >>>>>>>>>> only. >  > 5 > So the intermediate save set is required after all.  >  > - Rob  >  >   ; Yep!  I getting to where a gnat can beat my attention span.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:48:19 +0000 ! From: Baldrick <none@[127.0.0.1]> = Subject: Re: Copy or Backup & keep same date/time attributes. ' Message-ID: <dr5enj$cav$1@lore.csc.com>    Chuck Aaron wrote:  , > What is the copy command or backup command1 > to copy files from one node to another and keep 2 > the date and time stamp of the original file(s)?  F There is a freeware utility called SETDATE which allows you to modify I the dates on a file, creation, revision, backup and expiration. I either  D got it from the freeware or downloaded it. Written David G North in I 1990, in macro. I have not tried to compile on Alpha. Google believes it  > to be contained on the Fall 1991 languages and tools SIG tape.  G I also wrote a command procedure which records the date/time for a set  I of files. I can then edit / modify / whatever that file, and the command  E file then put the dates back, using SETDATE. Version number is still  I changed. A reason I do this is maintaining web files, if I make a global  I change which is not content related, but a link update (using the SEARCH   teco macro, what else?!).    --  E Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. Car Park Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:54:29 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>  Subject: Re: ETHERMON for Alpha?2 Message-ID: <dr5115$mut$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:43D58E27.3C0E8EEC@comcast.net...  > F > So UCX's TCPDUMP can listen promiscuously and dump out everything it* > "hears", regardless of layer-3 protocol?  Q Actually, it appears not, which makes it a lot less useful than I thought it was; B there must be something strange in how the packet driver is wired. Sorry for the confusion.     ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:14:35 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)2 Subject: Re: forgetting my DCL: what am I missing?$ Message-ID: <dr5qqb$cnu$2@online.de>  9 In article <dr3uc2$3vn$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield ! <my.full.name@intel.com> writes:    0 > > So why doesn't the program ignore the space? > = >      Because the person who wrote the program (not Phillip) > > wrote their own command line parser which, for this program,; > requires the "/11" to be "attached" to the 3rd parameter.  > @ >       Phillip proffered that this program needs to run on bothB > VMS and Digital Unix, which provides an excuse to do the commandA > line handling the unix way. :-(   I call it an "excuse" because C > there's no reason that the operating system-specific parts of the B > program couldn't include real DCL parsing (as Phillip mentioned,D > via a compiled .CLD and calls to LIB$DCL_PARSE, etc.).  Instead weC > get this: an imitation DCL command line that fails under "normal"  > DCL usage.    C In support of the author of the code, there is a lot of source code G involved and this stuff is really marginal.  One can run the server for C years without even knowing about these commands.  When one does use I them, there is little need to play around with different qualifiers etc;  E it's enough to set up symbols for the commands one needs to use more  G than once and leave it at that.  The author provided the code for free  I and it works EXTREMELY well; I'm glad he put his unpaid time into making  D all of the other features work well.  The same code runs on VAX and 3 ALPHA.  Probably, it will run unchanged on Itanium.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:18:57 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)2 Subject: Re: forgetting my DCL: what am I missing?$ Message-ID: <dr5r2h$cnu$3@online.de>  4 In article <43D58EF0.550799E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:     > AEF wrote:E > > BTW: One can also ask why your application can't handle the extra < > > space! Especially since the /11 starts with a slash. :-) > 1 > PRIVREQUEST expects a fixed number of arguments  > 5 > PRIVREQUEST <from_port> <command> <to_address:port>  >  > 3 > PRIVREQUEST 931 NEWTRACE /11 www.chocolate.com:80  > E > The web server will see /11 as the <to_address:port> argument and a - > newtrace without tracelevel as the command.  > 2 > PRIVREQUEST 931 NEWTRACE/11 www.chocolate.com:80 > G > the web server will see www.chocolate.com:80 as the <to_address:port> * > argument and newtrace/11 as the command.  E That's correct, of course.  However, one doesn't need to specify the  # last argument if the default is OK.    In pure DCL, one would have   4    PRIVREQUEST 931 /NEWTRACE=11 www.chocolate.com:80   or  B    PRIVREQUEST/FROM=931 NEWTRACE/LEVEL=11 /TO=www.chocolate.com:80     or something similar.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 02:22:49 -0800 From: "Arie" <arie@zeepost.nl>5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator C Message-ID: <1138098169.161047.256790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Alan Greig wrote: 
 > Arie wrote:  > . H > It appears to have started an install of Microsoft .NET Framework 2 onD > my PC without my permission and doesn't seem to want to cancel theI > install. You need to provide more details about what's going on here if ' > you don't want to get flamed to hell.  >  > -- > Alan Greig  A Alan, thanks for the quick input you gave. We will implement your E suggestion regarding the .NET installation. We need the framework for E some functions of PersonalAlpha and therefore have to include it, and C didn't think it was such a big deal. We will include a notification : however that this will be installed prior to PersonalAlpha9 installation, so everybody knows what is going to happen.   @ Also your other comment for the trial period: we will change the? product to allow a few days to check the product out before the  purchase decision is made.     With best regards,  
 Arie de Groot    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 04:23:50 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> 5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator B Message-ID: <1138105429.946331.45150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Arie,   E Your product sounds interesting, but for my "segment" of the hobbyist C market (extremely limited budget :-) I wonder if you could consider F offering a lower priced license aimed more at the hobbyist. Perhaps itG might be done with a one-time charge for an initial license which would F have to be periodically renewed for free or nominal charge. Except for6 money this would be a bit like Hobbyist VMS licensing.  B For my own hobbyist use I'd be willing to pay perhaps $150 withoutF having to swallow too hard :-) or maybe up to $200 if I had to swallow hard :-|   Good luck with your simulator!   Galen    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:53:32 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator ; Message-ID: <grpBf.11311$mu.7365@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Arie wrote:    > C > Alan, thanks for the quick input you gave. We will implement your G > suggestion regarding the .NET installation. We need the framework for G > some functions of PersonalAlpha and therefore have to include it, and E > didn't think it was such a big deal. We will include a notification < > however that this will be installed prior to PersonalAlpha; > installation, so everybody knows what is going to happen.   A Ok and thanks for the quick response. Does it actually need .NET  B Framework 2? I actually have .NET Framework 1.1 with the critical F "hotfix" installed to suppport a registery compacting application. It F really has to be my decision to install and test any upgrades to .NET H Framework. A registry compaction program would be about the worst thing H imaginable to break in subtle ways under Windows as even System Restore I won't work with a badly corrupted registry. In the end I had to use task  D manager to abort the install after clicking on cancel resulted in a E never ending time-bar saying "the installation is taking longer than  G expected" in a loop. I then had to use System Restore myself to ensure  B consistancy. Also no System Restore point was created by the .NET B installation but luckily I had one from earlier in the day anyway.  B > Also your other comment for the trial period: we will change theA > product to allow a few days to check the product out before the  > purchase decision is made.     This is also good news.    > With best regards, >  > Arie de Groot  >    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:51:35 -0800 From: comp.os.vms@hotmail.com 5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator B Message-ID: <1138121495.151088.60750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  A So, is a product from the Charon-VAX people SRI, or has Emulators 4 International beaten SRI to market with a product ??  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:27:02 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator 0 Message-ID: <11tcoq6r2cusj1b@corp.supernews.com>   Arie wrote:  > Alan Greig wrote:  > 
 >>Arie wrote:  >>. H >>It appears to have started an install of Microsoft .NET Framework 2 onD >>my PC without my permission and doesn't seem to want to cancel theI >>install. You need to provide more details about what's going on here if ' >>you don't want to get flamed to hell.  >> >>-- >>Alan Greig >  > C > Alan, thanks for the quick input you gave. We will implement your G > suggestion regarding the .NET installation. We need the framework for G > some functions of PersonalAlpha and therefore have to include it, and E > didn't think it was such a big deal. We will include a notification < > however that this will be installed prior to PersonalAlpha; > installation, so everybody knows what is going to happen.  > B > Also your other comment for the trial period: we will change theA > product to allow a few days to check the product out before the  > purchase decision is made.   >  > With best regards, >  > Arie de Groot  >   F You might want to consider a hobbyist license.  It won't make you any ? money, but it will get you exposure.  Just a thought.  I'm not  # personally interested at this time.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:04:26 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: HP Strategy meeting= Message-ID: <lb-dnQExluoQQkjeRVn-iA@metrocastcablevision.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote:J >> While Dell can use the threat of opening up AMD sales 'as a cattle prodI >> of sorts' to obtain preferred treatment in various ways from Intel, it J >> seems unlikely that Intel could move *all* that much faster with Itanic/ >> regardless of how much pressure was applied.  >  > J > The reason that IA64 thing hasn't been formally killed yet is because of5 > various commitments and deals between Intel and HP.   D If you're not just blowing your usual smoke out of your ass, please @ provide a citation to back that assertion up.  While Itanic has H certainly been a disappointment to all parties involved with it, it has C been sufficiently successful in killing off a large portion of its  I superior competition just by saying *Boo!" that it could yet bluster its  B way into a significant position in the high-end market that would G benefit Intel (at the margins, of course:  the idea that it would ever  C pay back all the money and opportunity-cost *already* sunk into it   remains ludicrous).       The pressure HPJ > might wield on intel is perhaps to modify the agreed upon exit strategy.  G While interpretations are subjective things, that doesn't strike me as  H the kind of pressure implied by the 'cattle prod' metaphor:  it sounded 2 more like pressure to perform (with Itanic) to me.   > B > With Opteron making Intel lose market share and forcing Intel toJ > accelerate 8086 developments. As a result, the shared systems interfacesH > that had been planned to appear for both 8086 and IA64 will now appear > on 8086 well before IA64.   I Please provide a citation for this statement as well:  last I heard, CSI  D was slated to appear with Tukwila in 2008, but might not get to x86 G until 2009 (though since then it appears that Whitefield may have been  F uncanceled, in which case 2008 might be the CSI date for both product  lines).    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:40:08 -0800 From: comp.os.vms@hotmail.com   Subject: Re: HP Strategy meetingB Message-ID: <1138120808.885418.13550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  + VMWare ESX-Server is an excellent solution.   	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:24:14 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: Intel, AMD CPUs nothing more than alpha clones!0 Message-ID: <11tblfuqp3fip46@corp.supernews.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > 0 >> and by clone I mean cheap clone with bits and5 >> pieces of alpha technology that still fail to make % >> them as good as the alpha chip ...  >  > J > With AMD supposedly going to expose the guts of the chip to programmers L > and escape the X64 instruction set maybe it will get even more Alpha like. >   7 Haven't heard anything about that.  Got any references?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:49:17 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)= Subject: Re: Mozilla: bookmarks and other stuff disappearing? $ Message-ID: <dr5pas$cnu$1@online.de>  5 In article <43D53630.6B45884F@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > > I don't think that's the case since the history (pull-down list in theJ > > URL box) is there.  Sometimes the bookmarks are gone and sometimes the= > > startpage isn't correct, but the history is always there.  > B > Check your logicals. You may have some conditional definition ofF > logicals (network, interactive etc) which doesn't apply with certainF > invocations of your browser and it then looks in a different default' > directory for your bookmark file etc.   H That can't be it.  Believe it or not, I have a machine which I use ONLY H for Mozilla.  My main cluster is 500 km away (though it might be coming F home soon) and I log into that remotely from a VAXstation 4000 with a G nice monitor, set up as a single-node cluster.  When I need Mozilla, I  G switch on a 5305, which boots as a voteless node into the cluster.  It  I really is a minimal setup, and nothing like this can go wrong.  I always  & invoke the browser in the same manner.  I For the curious: I normally don't need the CPU power or the memory which  E Mozilla does, so I keep the machine switched off most of the time to   save on electricity costs.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 05:40:04 -0800+ From: "micken" <michael.grunditz@telia.com> - Subject: problems with a new vms installation B Message-ID: <1138110004.142476.52100@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Hi  F I have just installed vms from a hobbyist kit with OpenVMS 7.3. I have- several problems wich I have not seen before.   E In sys$manager:tcpip$config I can't chose some of the server settings  options $ and I have valid licenses installed.  G If i issue a set terminal/create/transport=tcpip/node=ip_adress I get a  "no @ such device" error. I remember that the installation program did install decw& and dwmotif is installed and licensed.   Best regards Michael Grunditz   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 06:17:54 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com 1 Subject: Re: problems with a new vms installation C Message-ID: <1138112274.110596.327480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Do you have the UCX license PAK installed?  While DW-MOTIF is requiredE for the windowing, you still need to have UCX installed to run TCP/IP 	 Services.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 06:45:54 -0800+ From: "micken" <michael.grunditz@telia.com> 1 Subject: Re: problems with a new vms installation C Message-ID: <1138113954.293266.186090@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   E well I did write SET DISPLAY , the SET TERMINAL was just a typo in my  post.   G I have installed UCX and I have configured tcp/ip. I can telnet and ftp  to and from 6 vms. So tcp/ip works , but I can't start all services. sys$manager:tcpip$config says 6 that there is no such option when I try to start them.  C Is'nt the DECW$ logical supposed to be set at startup time, it does  look like I dont have it    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 07:11:24 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com 1 Subject: Re: problems with a new vms installation C Message-ID: <1138115484.099582.216930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F What services are you trying to start, and what exact error message do7 you get?  Also, what does "$ SHOW LICENSE UCX" display?    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 16:11:49 +0100/ From: huber@NIRWANA-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) 1 Subject: Re: problems with a new vms installation + Message-ID: <7ujvwihqH20Z@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   C In article <1138113954.293266.186090@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, .  "micken" <michael.grunditz@telia.com> writes: > E > Is'nt the DECW$ logical supposed to be set at startup time, it does  > look like I dont	 > have it A If no DECW$* logicals are defined, then probably DECW$STARTUP was  not executed (or failed). 6 Check if System parameter  WINDOW_SYSTEM is set to 1 .B If not, put WINDOW_SYSTEM=1 in modparams.dat, @sys$update;autogen.  0 And to enable the TCPIP transport for X11, edit @ sys$manager:decw$private_server_setup.com to have TCPIP included' in the decw$server_transports variable. ? (copy decw$private-server_setup.com from the *.template file if  not yet existing).   --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:28:42 -0800+ From: "micken" <michael.grunditz@telia.com> 1 Subject: Re: problems with a new vms installation C Message-ID: <1138120122.897924.314740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Thanks for all help.  % running decw$startup did the trick :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:33:37 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator 0 Message-ID: <11tbm1j5bek4h8c@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > D >>If the OS is not running TCP/IP, and is not accessing any externalD >>interfaces, such as an Ethernet interface, then please explain howF >>anything, not just hackers, can access the OS for nefarious or other
 >>activities?  >  > , > (just watched 24... so excuse the mindset) > ? > Simple answer. A system controlling air conditioning and fire D > suppression could be compromised if you added some gizmo next to aC > sensor to falsely trigger an alarm, lock the computer room doors, I > release the fire fighting gas and suffocate an important dignitary that I > was visiting the computer room at the time. So even if not connected to G > the internet, it could still be compromised, especially if you have a  > mole working from the inside.  >  > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   - So you're the one who took boob's medication.   H The issue seemed to me to be between pure/native VMS and VMS through an 	 emulator.   B In the stupid example you give, it doesn't matter what OS is used.  G I can see automatically closing doors, but locking them?  Who would do  K something so stupid?  I'm sure it would violate more than a few rules/laws.   F Would you care to explain how native VMS would figure out that it's a H false alarm, would figure out that there is an 'important dignitary' in 2 the computer room, and know not to lock the doors?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:53:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator , Message-ID: <43D5EB01.FD123A57@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:G > Would you care to explain how native VMS would figure out that it's a I > false alarm, would figure out that there is an 'important dignitary' in 4 > the computer room, and know not to lock the doors?    A Security is about any weak links. Windows may have plenty of weak G telecom links rendering it vulnerable , but  just because you isolate a : computer from the internet doesn't magically make it safe.  H In terms of the emulator issue, since VAX or Alpha run as an applicationF on Windows, you are still opened to any/all vulnerabilitoes of the OS,6 assuming that you have turned off  *ALL* applications.  E if you use a port scanner to check for opened ports, you will need to C test the setup at various stages of booting of Windows, then as you C start the emulator and the as VMS boots.  If Windows has some ports ; opened for a short period of time while it boots, that is a C vulnerability that you wouldn't see if you test the machine wit VMS 
 fully booted.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:24:33 GMT + From: Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator - Message-ID: <43D5F24E.9030300@softresint.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  [...]  > G > if you use a port scanner to check for opened ports, you will need to E > test the setup at various stages of booting of Windows, then as you E > start the emulator and the as VMS boots.  If Windows has some ports = > opened for a short period of time while it boots, that is a E > vulnerability that you wouldn't see if you test the machine wit VMS  > fully booted.   C If properly configured, the CHARON-VAX host system has its network  8 drivers permanently disabled or removed from the system.   Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:15:26 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator I Message-ID: <8660a3a10601240515r22bdc0b2i8aafd8f6ba5296a8@mail.gmail.com>   8 On 1/24/06, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > [...]  > > I > > if you use a port scanner to check for opened ports, you will need to G > > test the setup at various stages of booting of Windows, then as you G > > start the emulator and the as VMS boots.  If Windows has some ports ? > > opened for a short period of time while it boots, that is a G > > vulnerability that you wouldn't see if you test the machine wit VMS  > > fully booted.  > D > If properly configured, the CHARON-VAX host system has its network: > drivers permanently disabled or removed from the system. >  > Rob  >   B I was just about to repeat your eminently memorable quip about howB Windows is remarkably stable if it is not used-- and here you are.   WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:09:20 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator / Message-ID: <43D5FCD0.11539.3896AC4B@localhost>   P > [...] release the fire fighting gas and suffocate an important dignitary [...]  C Actually, you can live in an atmosphere with Halon in it.  If your  = fire-suppression system is based on carbon dioxide, that's a   different matter.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 07:25:49 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator C Message-ID: <1138116349.398828.131040@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   2 >what good is an emulator if it runs on an os that2 >any hacker can get into and delete your emulation >software and data?   E As a development/test system.  As an emergency backup system until HP A can fix your real Alpha (note,probably only useful for DS10-sized G servers).  For Sales and Support Reps doing software demo's at customer A sites (which is why it was a good thing to pitch at Ambassadors). D There's three good uses right there with full consideration that you9 wouldn't want to run it as a full-time production server.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:56:22 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator = Message-ID: <43d65c26$0$78280$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote:P >>[...] release the fire fighting gas and suffocate an important dignitary [...] >  > E > Actually, you can live in an atmosphere with Halon in it.  If your  ? > fire-suppression system is based on carbon dioxide, that's a   > different matter.  >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------: > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"   I C02 stimulates your breathing because our breathing is controlled by how  G much CO2 we have in our blood.  Our breathing is not controlled by how  I much oxygen we have in our blood.  Fire extinction works with lowing the  I among of oxygen in the air until there is to little oxygen for the fire.  I   Unfortunately the low level of oxygen may also suffocate people in the  H room.  You can use the stimulating effect of CO2 to create a mixture of I CO2 and other gases such that the CO2 stimulates the breathing enough to  * compensate for the less oxygen in the air.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:25:26 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 1 Subject: Re: running OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator I Message-ID: <8660a3a10601241025w48f9d89bj508b6954ca645a57@mail.gmail.com>   : On 1/23/06, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: > Dave Froble wrote:F > > If the OS is not running TCP/IP, and is not accessing any externalF > > interfaces, such as an Ethernet interface, then please explain howH > > anything, not just hackers, can access the OS for nefarious or other > > activities?  > , > (just watched 24... so excuse the mindset) > ? > Simple answer. A system controlling air conditioning and fire D > suppression could be compromised if you added some gizmo next to aC > sensor to falsely trigger an alarm, lock the computer room doors, I > release the fire fighting gas and suffocate an important dignitary that I > was visiting the computer room at the time. So even if not connected to G > the internet, it could still be compromised, especially if you have a  > mole working from the inside.  >  > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  >   L The rest of us don't have fire suppression systems filled with........metha= ne.    :-) back at you.   WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 02:23:55 -08002 From: "vaxorcist" <hoelscher-kirchbrak@freenet.de>! Subject: Re: SimH V3.5-2 released C Message-ID: <1138098235.825842.155470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   : Anyone who wants to try one of the following VMS versions:( - 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 - 4.4, 4.5, 4.6, 4.7* I'll be glad to supply those listed above.   I'm still looking for: - 1.x  - 2.x . - 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.7A (with LAVC support) Can anyone help?  C Additionally I've got about 95% of the V3 Manuals and 90% of the V4  manuals.D All will be scanned and made publicly accessible. But that will take
 some time.  F AA-M545B-TE VAX-11-780 Software Installation Guide VMS V3.2 is already
 available.  ? Who has got VMS V1.x and/or V2.x manuals??? Please let me know!      Regards    Ulli  ? P.S. I will start VMS 3.0 testing on SIMH VAX-11/780 as soon as 	 possible.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 10:42:19 -08002 From: "vaxorcist" <hoelscher-kirchbrak@freenet.de>! Subject: Re: SimH V3.5-2 released C Message-ID: <1138128138.998141.172290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    HELP!!!   E Does anyone know the standard BACKUP SAVE-SET record length under VMS ; V3??? Must have changed lateron as 32256 does not work :-((    Regards    Ulli   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:59:08 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"0 Message-ID: <11tbnhelgishc08@corp.supernews.com>   John Reagan wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>H >> A very interesting statement, seeing as how some have suggested that H >> Compaq lied to customers with their promises about Alpha.  One might E >> suspect that the statement confirms that Compaq knowingly lied to  
 >> customers.  >>( >> But what the hell, what's a few lies? >>I >> Then there's Intel with all their itanic promises.  In some ways they  " >> make Compaq's lies rather mild. >> > I > Oh give me a break.  Do not take my statement about the article posted  K > and twist it into some confirmation of a conspricy.  Adjust the ALUMINUM   > foil hat please. :-)  $ Do aluminum hats stop snipping?  :-)   I quote:  E "For instance, he didn't mention that actually designing, debugging,  F building EV8s in quantity would require massive amounts of money that L Compaq didn't want to spend in light of the promise of Itanium performance."  A Two issues in that sentence.  The second, the promise of Itanium  I performance, was in question by most reasonable people even in 2001.  As  H for the first, it dovetails neatly with what I've maintained all along, E that Compaq didn't want to be in the CPU business and didn't want to   build Alpha.  J > All I said was that the article omitted several additional factors that % > seemed to impact Compaq's decision.   F I think all the factors are present.  There's only one, the desire to ) dump Alpha.  The rest is rationalization.   I > As for how much money would it take for EV8 vs Itanium?  I do know not.   F Ok, I'm a bastard, I'll put you on the spot.  Your own opinion.  On a I scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate the possibility that any Alpha chip  7 would cost as much as Intel has poured into the itanic?   ; A related question, has any Alpha chip cost $1B to develop?   H And finally, if the EV8 achieved it's design goals, how many more years 0 from today would it take the itanic to match it?  C >  Firstly, nobody built EV8 so you'd have to go into an alternate  
 > dimension.     Sure, my imagination.   > > Second, for Itanium, you'll have to ask Intel.  Personally, I > the total dollar figure isn't all that important.  From Compaq's point  G > of view it probably was "do I spend OUR money" or get Intel to spend  I > "their money"?  But then again, I'm just a poor little compiler writer  ' > who isn't on the board of directors.    H And I'm just a poor(er) little application developer who has had almost I all VMS customers scared off VMS.  Now I spend my days working on wintel   crap.   G If everyone producing goods had the same thoughts, we'd all be walking  D because our Yugos would be in the shop.  Compaq deserves to be gone!  A Never said anything was your fault.  But there is fault, lack of  ' conviction, and disregard of customers.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:12:37 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"0 Message-ID: <11tboanjujdside@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Neil Rieck wrote:  > L >>I've said it before and I'll say it again. The non-technical bozos running@ >>Compaq at that time did not know what they possessed in Alpha. >  >  > B > Yes they did know. Which is why they endeavoured to kill it. PutD > yourself in the context of Intel's rtelationship with vendors, putG > yourself in a context where Compaq had lost its edge and needed every J > possible advantage to beat Dell and Gateway and HP and everyone else, it3 > could not jeoperdize its relationship with Intel.   I There have not been any rumors of pricing of the IA-32 chips that Compaq  H used, but then again, Intel doesn't let such become known.  It might be 9 interesting what comes out in the AMD suit against Intel.   H In order to compete in the PC arena, Compaq would need the best pricing  it could manage from Intel.   G > Alpha was making that IA64 look like a 2000 version of the all mighty G > microvax II. Remove alpha from the market and that ia64 thing doesn't  > look so bad.  I Bullshit!  Only by removing all other competitors, including IA-32, from  C the market could Intel make the itanic look good.  Alpha and to an  G extent MIPS were the only major casualities.  I won't count HP as they  H were into the itanic with Intel.  Even if they could have got the rest, - AMD shot holes in their plans for IA-32.  :-)   J > Gerstner's book clearly state that Curly had hired investment bankers to. > find a buyer for Compaq early in his tenure. > E > So the board probably figured that without a real leader to rebuild H > Compaq, the only way was for Compaq to find a buyer. As soon as HP wasH > identified as the potential buyer, dropping the stuff that HP wouldn't' > want was probably Curly's main task.   > I > In it interesting to look back at Compaq's attemps to kill VMS in 2000, I > something which it had to forget because the revenus were too important  > for Compaq to let go of VMS.     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 05:48:04 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"B Message-ID: <1138110484.274993.24690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  > "Sorry but this statement doesn't make sense. Why would anyone knowingly kill= off a superior technology that they would be in control of? "   ? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:57:31 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>< Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"1 Message-ID: <L7sBf.2026$eH4.343@news.cpqcorp.net>    Bill Todd wrote:   > 7 > Exactly what do you 'know' from personal involvement,   I You are correct.  I never met Capallas, Pfieffer, Carly (well, I did see  G her speak once), I never set foot in the FABs, I wouldn't know a wafer  E processing line if it bit me in butt.  All my knowledge was gathered  C around the lunch table or in various meetings when all of this was  B explained to us.  Could I have been tricked?  Sure it is possible.  I I also have no proof of the moon landing in 1969.  I wasn't on the lunar  ( lander.  Could I have also been tricked?  G Until recently, I had no proof that the world was round until I did an   around-the-world trip.  B Anyway, unless any of us was in the room with Capallas, Carly, or H whomever compared Alpha vs Itanium futures, etc. we are all speculating I based on whatever each of us heard and what each of us wanted to believe.    John  ) [cue the music from the Twilight Zone...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:45:43 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"0 Message-ID: <11tcptaoombp6a9@corp.supernews.com>   Neil Rieck wrote:   O > Sorry but this statement doesn't make sense. Why would anyone knowingly kill  = > off a superior technology that they would be in control of?   + Lets look at this from another perspective.   ? Your rich uncle, after a full life, passes away and leaves you  G everything.  Included is something you just don't want, and cannot get  D anyone else to purchase.  Assume that that something is superior to C anything similar.  Regardless, you don't want it, and neither does  G anybody else.  What do you do?  Add to that the condition that keeping  " the something will cost you money.  H Compaq just didn't want to be in the CPU business, under any conditions.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:38:49 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"0 Message-ID: <11tcpgeiq0dt1ab@corp.supernews.com>   John Reagan wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>8 >> Exactly what do you 'know' from personal involvement, >  > K > You are correct.  I never met Capallas, Pfieffer, Carly (well, I did see  I > her speak once), I never set foot in the FABs, I wouldn't know a wafer  G > processing line if it bit me in butt.  All my knowledge was gathered  E > around the lunch table or in various meetings when all of this was  D > explained to us.  Could I have been tricked?  Sure it is possible. > K > I also have no proof of the moon landing in 1969.  I wasn't on the lunar  * > lander.  Could I have also been tricked? > I > Until recently, I had no proof that the world was round until I did an   > around-the-world trip. > D > Anyway, unless any of us was in the room with Capallas, Carly, or J > whomever compared Alpha vs Itanium futures, etc. we are all speculating K > based on whatever each of us heard and what each of us wanted to believe.  >  > John > + > [cue the music from the Twilight Zone...]    :-)    No need for the music.  I People have been tried, found guilty, and hung, solely on circumstantial  G evidence.  I'm thinking that most of us have a decent understanding of  F the essential details.  Like it or not, some of them are quite sordid.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:05:03 +0100 ( From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl>3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page 3 Message-ID: <43D5FBCF.4030203@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl>    David J Dachtera wrote: G > Well, I went ahead and did it. I finally got a round TUIT and made an E > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page. The link is in the modified  > .sig, below. > $ > Go ahead and submit your comments. > D > I tried to make it positive and forward-thinking. Let me know if II > succeeded. If you want to comment privately, how to demung the Reply-to  > should be obvious. > E > Yes, I know it looks like the others: *BLEAH*. I'm DCL coder, not a G > website designer. Anyone who wants to submit an improved form of this I > page is welcome to do so. How to demung the Reply-to should be obvious.  > D One basic problem : you expicitly set the colour of your letters to H black, but did not specify a background colour : When someone (like me) L sets the default background of his/her browser to black nothing is vissible.          Jouk    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:15:10 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now! 0 Message-ID: <11tboff12dub76f@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > H >>Perhaps SUN would consider an exception for hardware that doesn't have
 >>IEEE float?  >  >  > G > VAX has IEEE support. It woudl simply take the addition of conversion - > from IEEE to native float for input/output.  > J > Lets face it, DIGITAL decided it was a simple excuse not to add features	 > to VAX.   H Well, software was produced to sell computers.  No VAXs to sell sure is F a reason for not spending time on VAX software.  My only problem with 5 that is the software support revenues from VAX users.   F > PSION did worse. When it release its Series 5, JAVA was promised. ItJ > took years for them to finish the software and they never provided it toC > Series 5 owners as promised, only to buyer of new machines. Their C > excuse: the new machines had faster clock , and the original ones  > weren't fast enough.  @  From some of the things I've read, they may have a valid point.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:02:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now! 3 Message-ID: <+qINi+FN0HRp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11tao8v6thke4c6@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:Q >> In article <ops3t9qqrnzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>   >>  8 >>>So it is not possible to use F and G float with Java? >>   >>  ; >>     It is a violation of the spec (via Sun's copyright).  >>   > I > Perhaps SUN would consider an exception for hardware that doesn't have  
 > IEEE float?   G    Since Sun doesn't have any, there's no advantage to Sun in doing so. D    It would slightly reduce the compile-once-run-anywhere capabilityF    of Java since you could get different results on different machines+    in digits a few people might care about.   B    Note that DEC did look at doing a Java engine on VAX using IEEEB    emulation.  Without a hughe customer demand for it, they saw noA    reason to expend money to make VAX look slower than it already     was.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jan 2006 08:05:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now! 3 Message-ID: <Epm9S5r+howk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43D58D76.1D272E48@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Dave Froble wrote:I >> Perhaps SUN would consider an exception for hardware that doesn't have  >> IEEE float? >  > G > VAX has IEEE support. It woudl simply take the addition of conversion - > from IEEE to native float for input/output.   E    It does not.  VMS supplies conversion routines, but the results of C    such calculations would not match those performed on a processor     which does support IEEE.   C    My DEC 3000 is slow enough at grinding through Java, and it will 0    run circles around a VAX 9000, so why bother?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:30:31 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: Why we need itanium notebooks now! 0 Message-ID: <11tcshcmo7cu22f@corp.supernews.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:\ > In article <11tao8v6thke4c6@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>Q >>>In article <ops3t9qqrnzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>>  >>>  >>> 9 >>>>So it is not possible to use F and G float with Java?  >>>  >>> ; >>>    It is a violation of the spec (via Sun's copyright).  >>>  >>I >>Perhaps SUN would consider an exception for hardware that doesn't have  
 >>IEEE float?  >  > I >    Since Sun doesn't have any, there's no advantage to Sun in doing so.   H Yes, there is an advantage.  Sun wants Java to be universal.  Excluding < anything is the opposite of what I assume their desires are.  F >    It would slightly reduce the compile-once-run-anywhere capabilityH >    of Java since you could get different results on different machines- >    in digits a few people might care about.   : There could be special conditions that a user must accept.  D >    Note that DEC did look at doing a Java engine on VAX using IEEED >    emulation.  Without a hughe customer demand for it, they saw noC >    reason to expend money to make VAX look slower than it already 	 >    was.   I Oh, I agree 100%.  There is no valid case for HP to dump money into VAX,  H at least for Java.  There are just too many other possibilities.  If HP G felt any obligation (which I doubt they do) they would get off cheaper  I giving the few people who want to run Java a cheap PC set up to run Java.   H But if a third party wanted to develop a Java implementation for VAX, I G thing Sun should say "Go ahead, knock yourself out, and include in the  - product declarations of any inconsistancies."    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.048 ************************