0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 26 Jan 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 51      Contents: "modern" LaTeX etc on VMS  Re: "modern" LaTeX etc on VMS  Re: "modern" LaTeX etc on VMS  Re: Excessive paging problem) Re: forgetting my DCL: what am I missing? 3 Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint) 3 Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint) 3 Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint) 3 Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint) 3 Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint) 3 Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint) , Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator, Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator: Re: HP, Intel becoming laughing stock of computer industry: Re: HP, Intel becoming laughing stock of computer industry: Re: HP, Intel becoming laughing stock of computer industry3 Re: Intel, AMD CPUs nothing more than alpha clones! 3 Re: Intel, AMD CPUs nothing more than alpha clones!  Re: SimH V3.5-2 released Re: SimH V3.5-2 released+ Re: Telnet over WAN latency troubleshooting 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" 3 Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha" P The processor wars Part III, Waiting for Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest: Q&A with N* Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page* Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page* Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page* Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page* Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page* Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page using COM port Re: using COM port Re: using COM port  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:27:04 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: "modern" LaTeX etc on VMS$ Message-ID: <dr8qf8$va4$1@online.de>  G I've asked similar questions occasionally in the last few years, but I  C always got distracted by something else; by the time I got back, I  B figured my information might be out of date, so I would ask again.  H Now, it seems like I finally have the time, so here goes, hopefully for  the last time:  H I've been doing essentially all my computing work on VMS for 14 years orD so and have no plans to change.  Up until 2000, I used LaTeX quite aH bit, also on VMS; for the last 5 years I've used it very little, and my , installation hasn't been updated since then.  D My real starting point was Ralf Grtner's [TEXMF] which was on a VMSD FREEWARE CD at some point.  It installed essentially out of the box,H worked fine, was an essentially complete installation including not justC (La)TeX but also XDVI, DVIPS etc: everything I needed.  This was in I 1997.  After that, I updated LaTeX from ctan a couple of times, and this  
 worked OK.   My goals are the following:   D    o  upgrade to the latest versions of TeX, LaTeX, BibTeX, NatBib,        XDVI, DVIPS, GS etc   F    o  produce efficient PDF efficiently (either via PostScript or not)  $    o  continue to produce PostScript  )    o  allow old stuff to continue to work    Some questions are:       o  Where do I start?   E    o  Is it technically possible to pull a distribution from ctan and        install it under VMS?   B    o  Is it worth the trouble to pull a distrubution from ctan and       install it under VMS?   E    o  Is there something like Ralf Grtner's [TEXMF] with the latest, (       greatest software available today?  D    o  Would it be better to start from scratch, or try to upgrade my7       current distribution (several years out of date)?   I Obviously, it would be good to hear from people who are running a modern  F LaTeX installation (with the related software mentioned above) on VMS.  D What about books?  I have the TeXBook, Lamport's LaTeX 2e book, the A LaTeX Companion, the LaTeX Graphics Companion and Kopka and Daly.   F Which of these books are essentially out of date now?  Which have had E new, updated editions appear in the last 5 years?  What new books do   people recommend?   F Has (La)TeX branched off into incompatible versions?  What's the deal  with pdftex etc?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 14:15:08 -0800 From: burt@brandeis.edu & Subject: Re: "modern" LaTeX etc on VMSC Message-ID: <1138227308.652794.319170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D I used TeX under VMS from 1986 to 1996. I updated my installation inD 1995 and found that the vrsion on CTAN then was not too difficult toC install, and it came with good instructions. There is a version for C OpenVMS at CTAN now, but I haven't tried it. My guess is that it is F exactly the installation you installed in 1997, since that is the dateE of the files on CTAN. Of course TeX itself hasn't changed since then, E but LaTeX has, so I think all you really need do is rebuilt the LaTeX F format with initex and download a more modern set of style packages toG the texinputs directory. You probably don't need to reinstall the whole D thing from scratch, because you seem to already have the most modern version.  G  I dont know whether that installation includes pdftex. Everything else  should be there.  B You can certainly produce postscript, and probably you can convertE postscript to pdf. All of your old documents should compile as usual, A although LaTeX will probably complain on your log file if you are E compiling LaTeX 2.09 files rather than LaTeX 2e files. But 2.09 files C will still compile, and they will look just as they did a long time  ago.  F None of the books are out of date, but some of them have new editions.@ The new edition of The LaTeX companion is very complete and very helpful.  E The only incompatible version I am aware of is XeTeX, which runs only E under the Mac and takes advantage of some of Apple's type technology. E Almost everything else in the TeX world runs the same way under every F system. Files made with pdfLaTeX and files made via the LaTeX to dvips) to ps2pdf route look just the same to me.   F Files I make to compile on my mac look exactly like their counterparts$ compiled under windows or under VMS.  
 Welcome back!   	 John Burt   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > I've asked similar questions occasionally in the last few years, but ID > always got distracted by something else; by the time I got back, ID > figured my information might be out of date, so I would ask again. > I > Now, it seems like I finally have the time, so here goes, hopefully for  > the last time: > J > I've been doing essentially all my computing work on VMS for 14 years orF > so and have no plans to change.  Up until 2000, I used LaTeX quite aI > bit, also on VMS; for the last 5 years I've used it very little, and my . > installation hasn't been updated since then. > H > My real starting point was Ralf G=E4rtner's [TEXMF] which was on a VMSF > FREEWARE CD at some point.  It installed essentially out of the box,J > worked fine, was an essentially complete installation including not justE > (La)TeX but also XDVI, DVIPS etc: everything I needed.  This was in J > 1997.  After that, I updated LaTeX from ctan a couple of times, and this > worked OK. >  > My goals are the following:  > E >    o  upgrade to the latest versions of TeX, LaTeX, BibTeX, NatBib,  >       XDVI, DVIPS, GS etc  > H >    o  produce efficient PDF efficiently (either via PostScript or not) > & >    o  continue to produce PostScript > + >    o  allow old stuff to continue to work  >  > Some questions are:  >  >    o  Where do I start?  > G >    o  Is it technically possible to pull a distribution from ctan and  >       install it under VMS?  > D >    o  Is it worth the trouble to pull a distrubution from ctan and >       install it under VMS?  > I >    o  Is there something like Ralf G=E4rtner's [TEXMF] with the latest, * >       greatest software available today? > F >    o  Would it be better to start from scratch, or try to upgrade my9 >       current distribution (several years out of date)?  > J > Obviously, it would be good to hear from people who are running a modernH > LaTeX installation (with the related software mentioned above) on VMS. > E > What about books?  I have the TeXBook, Lamport's LaTeX 2e book, the C > LaTeX Companion, the LaTeX Graphics Companion and Kopka and Daly.  > G > Which of these books are essentially out of date now?  Which have had F > new, updated editions appear in the last 5 years?  What new books do > people recommend?  > G > Has (La)TeX branched off into incompatible versions?  What's the deal  > with pdftex etc?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 14:29:42 -0800 From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au & Subject: Re: "modern" LaTeX etc on VMSC Message-ID: <1138228182.740788.194130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi Phillip,   0 I am in the same situation - circa 1997 version.  D Actually I use Itaniums for number crunching, but have an Alpha with> LaTeX for document processing using the 1997 version of LaTeX.  G I would also like to see a modern version - expecially with the ability  to use non-LaTeX fonts.   F I do all my development on Alpha and copy the final version to Mac OSX5 to produce non-LaTeX and PDF version for publication.   F About a year ago Ralf mentioned here he is producing a Itanium versionB - using the latest distro, but I am not aware if this has occured.   Thanks   Stuart   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 13:42:13 -0800" From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com% Subject: Re: Excessive paging problem B Message-ID: <1138225333.168275.42530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bernhard Dorninger wrote:  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > Bernhard Dorninger wrote:  > > [ > >>  I have read HP's Optimizing Java Guide for the OpenVMS platform carefully and ordered / > >>the proc quotas to be adjusted accordingly. \ > >>  On starting things up, everything works quite fine. However, after a day of uptime the3 > >>working set grows far beyond the Java heap size   > >>  until WSEXTENT is reached. > >  > > J > > Suggests possible resource "leakage". Check for ECOs to the respective	 > > RTLs.  > Will check that....  > >  > > : > >>This is the time, when the excessive paging starts and  > >>performance drops extremely.[ > >>  We have noticed ridiculously high PF rates, not only soft faults but also hard faults  > >>] > >>  I cannot understand, why the process keeps demanding pages, although Java heap has been % > >>restricted to a much lower value.  > >  > > K > > Depends how much data the program is trying to keep in memory, not on a  > > fixed heap size.[ > Well, the Java Heap is indeed of a fixed size. I.e. if you have a Java program that tries [ > to keep more than max heap (set with the -Xmx cmd line arg of Java) sized data in memory, Z > you'll get a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError in your code - at least you should get it. Proof > of this fact is easy. [ > This is not the case for the JavaVM itself or any native library, which is loaded (either * > from the VM or from your own Java Code).Y >  From this point of view, I'd say the VM (or any of the C-RTL libs) is responsible, but Y > who knows - maybe I have made an error with the VMS proc quota settings, which I am not  > aware of.  >  > > Y > >>  Our main app has a very high object turnover, but shouldn't the Java GC handle this * > >>without ordering additional mem pages? > >  > > B > > Depends on whether resources are being released as objects are > > dismissed.[ > For our objects (mostly strings and C-struct like data objects), there can't be done more \ > than to set the references to null. The rest is usually done by the Java GC. I am not sure[ > but the GC activity should not cause paging, but for sure it should not cause an increase  > of process memory. > >  > >>monitor page output P > >>                                        CUR        AVE        MIN        MAX > >>P > >>     Page Fault Rate                 375.33    9471.57     101.33   75682.66P > >>     Page Read Rate                  488.00     382.51       7.33     815.66P > >>     Page Read I/O Rate              116.33     121.19       4.00     232.00P > >>     Page Write Rate                   0.00       2.84       0.00     226.00P > >>     Page Write I/O Rate               0.00       1.00       0.00      74.33 > >>P > >>     Free List Fault Rate            251.33    5543.55       0.00   45827.33P > >>     Modified List Fault Rate          5.00    3778.41       1.00   29646.33P > >>     Demand Zero Fault Rate            0.00       0.15       0.00       6.66P > >>     Global Valid Fault Rate           2.66      26.80       0.00     190.66P > >>     Wrt In Progress Fault Rate        0.00       0.00       0.00       0.00P > >>     System Fault Rate                 0.00       0.00       0.00       0.00 > >>P > >>     Free List Size                 7469.00    9814.45    1218.00   18470.00P > >>     Modified List Size            14307.00   11579.47    3475.00   20590.00 > >  > > I > > WOW!!!!!!!!!! What was the /INTERVAL time on MONITOR PAGE? (Hint: the 6 > > default is 5 seconds, I usually use /INT=2 or =1).Y > used the default interval. changing it to a lower value does not deliver more beautiful 
 > results :-)  > 	 > Thanks, 
 > Bernhard  D This might be a stupid question, (I don't know much about Java), butG are the Java images installed/installable ??    I am struck by the high E "Read I/O" rate, indicating "Read from Disk" hard faults.   Also, the G very high "Modified Page" and "Free List" rates indicate that the WS is G clearly too small for the amount of code/data it is processing, i.e. it F is storing large numbers of pages (to MP List) and grabbing Free pages; from the FP List in order to continue reading in Code/Data.   B My other question is whether it is possible that you mixed up yourD units ?   You mention setting heap sizes in MB, but remember that WSE quotas are in "pagelets" (512 bytes) while VMS internal values are in 
 "pages" (8K).    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:06:32 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>2 Subject: Re: forgetting my DCL: what am I missing?+ Message-ID: <dr93q8$gde$1@news01.intel.com>   
 AEF wrote: > AEF wrote: >> Ken Fairfield wrote:  >>> AEF wrote: >>>> Ken Fairfield wrote:  >>>>> AEF wrote: >>>>>  >>>>> [very BIG snip]  >>>>> H >>>>>> BTW: One can also ask why your application can't handle the extra? >>>>>> space! Especially since the /11 starts with a slash. :-)  >>>>>>L >>>>>>>>      And of course, as others have noted, the reason PRIVREQUEST isJ >>>>>>>> giving you this problem is because it is *not* using DCL to parseJ >>>>>>>> the command line.  Otherwise, a space before a qualifier wouldn'tJ >>>>>>>> matter.  One of my pet peeves is "imitation" DCL command lines...3 >>>>>> So why doesn't the program ignore the space? A >>>>>      Because the person who wrote the program (not Phillip) B >>>>> wrote their own command line parser which, for this program,? >>>>> requires the "/11" to be "attached" to the 3rd parameter. I >>>> So why does DCL put in that "extra space"? Because the person(s) who . >>>> wrote that part of DCL wrote it that way. >>> Of course.  Your point? G >> That *is* my point. "Because it was written that way" answers *both* 
 >> questions.  > F > IOW, why is the same answer satisfactory for the privrequest program" > but not for DCL command parsing?  , [At the risk of beating dead horses, etc...]  > Because of 20+ years of DCL history, experience and associated
 expectations.   @ The context of this discussion was a deviation from expected DCLA behavior (see the "BTW" at the top of the quoted text above).  In C one case, a program was invoked from a foreign command symbol which A specified only the image, while the command line supplied all the A required parameters and a qualifier.  In the other case, the same ? program was invoked by a foreign command symbol which specified D *both* the image and the required parameters, while the command lineC supplied only the (remaining) qualifier.  It is/was unexpected that 3 the results of two invocations should be different.   @ Yes, we traced this down to the way DCL expands the command lineD to include a space between the last parameter of the expanded symbolE and the supplied qualifier.  And yes, that is just the way the people C who wrote DCL wrote it.  But the *point* is that added space during C symbol expansion is *not* an issue either for (a) a native DCL verb @ with its parameters and qualifiers, or (b) a program that uses aB .CLD to define its syntax and LIB$DCL_PARSE, for example, to parseA the command line.  It becomes an issue when the program defines a D syntax that appears to be DCL, i.e., because it uses slash-delimitedF "qualifiers", but it doesn't behave like DCL because it makes implicit@ assumptions about the command-line tokens it will receive...and > parse...that DCL doesn't do, i.e., requiring a qualifier to be? "attached" to the 2nd parameter instead standing by itself as a  3rd blank-delimited token.    B NOTE: I never meant to disparage nor denigrate David Jones's work,> or the OSU HTTP server.  I am _very grateful_ to David for his> service to the VMS community and, indeed, we used his OSU HTTP< server at my previous employer!  There is no need to explain< why the PRIVREQUEST command line parsing was done as it was.@ Indeed, I've certainly done similar things.  In fact, several of@ my TPU functions use a "pseudo-DCL syntax" with qualifiers, etc.A (And no, they don't parse exactly like DCL...which trips me up on C occasion, especially if I haven't used the function in a while! :-)           Regards, Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:41:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint), Message-ID: <43D7F09D.F68921E5@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: O > BTW, DDR-II and PCI-E are both in the pipeline for Integrity systems and VMS.   8 Does VMS *need* to be aware of the memory architecture ?  G I realise that in the case of GS/Wildfire class machines, knowing about C the intimate interconnect design can help VMS take advantage of the G memory system and avoid bottlenecks and increase performance, but woudl I it be strictly necessary if you just had independant instance(s) of VMS ?   H Also for regular systems, would VMS be aware of the memory system at all> ? Wouldn't that be all hardware with VMS seeing just one large  continuously accessible memory ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:00:21 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>< Subject: Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint), Message-ID: <43d7f4f6$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  A DDR-II and PCI-E are both transparent to users except perhaps for K performance.  Just as NUMA is generally transparent at the user application  level except for performance.   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43D7F09D.F68921E5@teksavvy.com... > Robert Deininger wrote: L > > BTW, DDR-II and PCI-E are both in the pipeline for Integrity systems and VMS. > : > Does VMS *need* to be aware of the memory architecture ? > I > I realise that in the case of GS/Wildfire class machines, knowing about E > the intimate interconnect design can help VMS take advantage of the I > memory system and avoid bottlenecks and increase performance, but woudl K > it be strictly necessary if you just had independant instance(s) of VMS ?  > J > Also for regular systems, would VMS be aware of the memory system at all@ > ? Wouldn't that be all hardware with VMS seeing just one large" > continuously accessible memory ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:31:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint), Message-ID: <43D7FC40.B42C7D0D@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote: > C > DDR-II and PCI-E are both transparent to users except perhaps for M > performance.  Just as NUMA is generally transparent at the user application  > level except for performance.   G But what about to the operating system itself ?  I know that for Galaxy E applications, VMS is aware of NUMA and they work to alleviate some of D the inefficiencies in NUMA.  But for uniform memory access, does VMSB itself know/care wether the memory is some proprietary controller, SDRAM, DDRAM or whatever ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:48:07 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) < Subject: Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2501062048280001@user-uinj4pk.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <43D7F09D.F68921E5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >Robert Deininger wrote:P >> BTW, DDR-II and PCI-E are both in the pipeline for Integrity systems and VMS. > 9 >Does VMS *need* to be aware of the memory architecture ?    I'll rephrase that...   N DDR-II and PCI-E integrity servers are in the pipeline.  VMS will run on them.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:53:44 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>< Subject: Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint), Message-ID: <43d839e5$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F The OS doesn't need to know about the memory subsystem unless there isH something peculiar - no it doesn't care about SDRAM or DDRII or DDRAM or* RDRAM...  it does need to know about PCI-E    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43D7FC40.B42C7D0D@teksavvy.com... > FredK wrote: > > E > > DDR-II and PCI-E are both transparent to users except perhaps for C > > performance.  Just as NUMA is generally transparent at the user  application ! > > level except for performance.  > I > But what about to the operating system itself ?  I know that for Galaxy G > applications, VMS is aware of NUMA and they work to alleviate some of F > the inefficiencies in NUMA.  But for uniform memory access, does VMSD > itself know/care wether the memory is some proprietary controller, > SDRAM, DDRAM or whatever ?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 21:46:15 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: Good OpenVMS presentation (slides # powerpoint)3 Message-ID: <fgO11q05jf9+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <43d3bd53$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:    > E > From my personal experience, you need at least 7 times the staff to H > manage M$ then to manage VMS. But then you get a 7 to 1 vote scheme onJ > decisions pro or contra a platform. VMS can't win on such a democracy... >   " 	I am being deliberately obtuse...  ? 	Part of what I see is a move away from Windows to Unix.  Maybe F 	you have an example of that.  I'm not seeing moves to Windows.  What  	comes immediately to mind is:  G "Thou art weighed in the balances and art found wanting." --Daniel 5:27   , 	VMS can win by providing functionality thatC 	other platforms can't match (or can , but is too new that adoption E 	isn't that great - yet.  So uptake takes time).  How many are doing  7 	dynamic cluster load balancing? (1)  Raise your hands.   < 	Now I have a sharp technical project manager that prods me:  E 	"Wait until Linux clustering gets all the features and functionality  	that you are using."   C 	Yes - this PM has a point.  It will happen and it will erode a lot G 	(and is eroding, Oracle 9i is the DB... who cares about the OS?).  It  / 	is a smart move in many ways as infrastructure B 	support is dramatically reduced:  Much lower hardware costs (x86)D 	and of course much cheaper OS cost.  But here is how I view that...> 	someone will have to understand what they are doing.  I'm notA 	threatened or feeling insecure about that.  Just a phase change. C 	From where I'm looking it is many years from now (if, not when).   H 	After all, deliver something like "Dynamic Cluster Load Balancing" and $ 	it's not un-like "Shock and Awe."    C 	Keep raising the functionality bar lads and lasses and it makes a  - 	platform move a "painful" proposition.   B^)   E 	Now here is a challenge to VMS engineering (they rarely disappoint). D 	What's new?  Any shock and awe or just this incremental improvement 	(good stuff, but incremental)?    				Rob   B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    (1) R http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/d87df12e11910490?dmode=source&hl=en  !   3.  VMS Cluster load balancing.   ( 	- Connections made to least loaded node= 	- No need to overbuy hardware for one Business Unit that has @ 	  higher requirements.. that BU is now spread among all members. 	  and each cluster supports a number of BU's.  D 	- One additional neat wrinkle... using a certain IP-based VMS load ? 	  balancing mechanism (and scripting) it is quite possible to  B 	  dynamically change the naming such that if you down a database D 	  instance (not the node), that node is no longer participating in = 	  that load balanced name.  Dynamically - and quickly quits  9           participating.  B^)    [All VMS host based BTW]    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:53:00 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator 0 Message-ID: <00A50558.43BA671D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <slrndtfb1a.h0l.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>, Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> writes:  >  > h >In article <1138204858.816989.254160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Ed Wilts <ewilts@ewilts.org> wrote: >> Arie wrote:J >>> Well yes, we have. When you look at our webpage www.personalalpha.com,E >>> you will find exactly what you need, I think. Just an hour ago we I >>> presented this product to the OpenVMS ambassadors during their annual  >>> meeting. >>> ' >>> Let me know your thoughts about it.  >>G >> My first thought is that the web page says it supports 96MB of Alpha J >> memory and only 2 disks.  What can we really do in only 96MB?  The host= >> platform requires 1GB and you only get 96MB for the guest?  >># >> Is this a temporary restriction?  > ! >That's for the Personal Edition.  > G >Basically, just enough to get your feet wet and figure out if you'd be D >interested in purchasing the more capable (larger-sized) commercial
 >editions.  5 ...and one that runs on something besides Weendoze.      --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:36:19 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator + Message-ID: <43D835A3.344C394C@comcast.net>    Arie wrote:  >  > Alan,  > C > we included your two comments: the download has now a 5 day trial < > period and we have included the Framework v2 notification. > D > Yes we do need FrameWork v2 so it has to be installed. It will notG > overwrite your current version 1.1 so the applications that need that " > version continue to run with 1.1  
 Questions:  G 1. Why should a CPU emulator need .NET framework? Does it secretly tell A M$ how many people are still running the system from which NT and  children are descended?   F 2. If it needs .NET framework, how will you go about porting it to theF other platforms where Charon currently runs, not the least of which isB OpenVMS? (Folks will want Charon-VAX *AND* AlphaEmulator to run on OpenVMS-I64, you know.)    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:12:04 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: HP, Intel becoming laughing stock of computer industry + Message-ID: <43D83E04.DA664415@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: J > > Gotta be honest here: many of us lambast HP to some degree for our own> > > reasons, and deservedly so, it would seem, at least to us. > > K > > It may be in your best interest - and VMS's - to tone down the rhetoric 
 > > a bit. >  > <carbon fibre hat on>  > @ > HP has not made any attempts to kill rumours of IA64's demise.  9 They've not made any visible efforts either way - PERIOD!   A Well, that's not entirely true. HP goes blithely on as if nothing F negative were being said / written / posted / published / ... That, asB well, could be interpreted as a response and/or a statement to the	 contrary.   	 > Instead 8 > they keep on sending signals that support that theory.  F Well, be careful there. HP are not actively communicating covertly, or0 at least I would have to see some proof of that.  G For all the interpreting and postulating that goes on in this group, it A all amounts to little more than "(what was said) could have meant . (insert interpretation du jour)". For example:  F > Consider their latest strategy meeting where they leaked out that HPJ > would consider moving out of mainframes and concentrate on blade systems > for enterprise systems.   B "Would consider" is hardly a condemnation to oblivion of anything.  F One could further postulate that "moving out of mainframes" might meanE recruiting a partner to take over that arm of the business - it could , mean much more, much less or nothing at all.  H > Consider that when they announced blade IA64 things, they made sure toE > state that they were plug compatible with real 8086 blades and that G > people could mix/match and replace an IA64 blade with 8086 components  > later on.   A Could mean (nothing dire) - it could mean much more, much less or  nothing at all.   H > Consider that HP has had to pay some 3 billion bucks to Intel for thatI > IA64 thing, and that is on top of the per chip costs HP must pay Intel. J > Consider the low volumes for that IA64 thing. It really doesn't pan out.8 > (And Alpha costed only a few hundre million per year).   Moot. Speculation.  H > For 3 billion bucks, they could port VMS and Tandem to the 64 bit 80865 > (and possibly HP-UX is they want to) and then some.   D Wishful thinking. Logical, I grant you - but wishful, none the less.  F > Sun has made its plans more or less obvious. Continue with SPARC forH > now, and grow the 8086 server range and when/if it matches SPARC, thenC > there is no point in continuing SPARC. The future availability of 4 > platforms that can run Solaris is not in question.   Only peripherally relevant.   G > It will/could be the same with HP. The only difference is that HP has < > not announced ports of VMS NSK or HP-UX to the 8086 (yet).  H Remember: "we" are the ones promoting that. No one who makes a rat's ass8 of a difference is carrying that torch, to my knowledge.  
 > So, for VMS B > and NSK, the future availability of a platform to run them is in > question.   9 ...as it has been since The Alphacide. What's your point?   > > So it is not only the fact that VMS is restricted to a smallH > niche market, but also that the long term viability of that IA64 thing > is still in question.    Common knowledge.   G > The second the 8086 scales to teh same performance/system features as D > that IA64 thing, IA64 is toast. And that moment is probably coming > sooner rather than later.   G Suffice it to say: VMS has survived this long. There's a reason for it. G While I, too, would prefer a bit more ASsurance and a bit of INsurance, H we'll have to settle for knowing that someone/thing is keeping it alive.H That someone/thing will not stand idly by and let either VMS or (Tandem) die without a fight.  ' > Tone down the rethoric ? you say ????  > B > At this point in time, HP has not made any firm, public, writtenI > commitments to make VMS survive beyond IA64. What if the statement that H > HP was moving out of mainframes implies letting VMS die along with theA > mainframes ? Are you going to just keep your mount shut and not + > proactively prevent that from happening ?   * "proactively prevent that from happening"   E Other than further posts to this forum (mostly just a chance to vent, G but to little effect other than to suggest new stuff to Guy and tip off D some insiders to software-related stuff that might only be tricklingC slowly through internal channels), how do you propose to accomplish  that?   G Perhaps the sound of distant thunder is, in fact, the black helicopters # making their initial recon. runs...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:18:47 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: HP, Intel becoming laughing stock of computer industry + Message-ID: <43D83F97.C4834418@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > K > >>when will they forget itanium and use alpha ... it runs vms and windoze  > >>and K > >>linux already and has EV79 and EV8 already laid out ready to go ... now  > >>theyI > >>are using a cheap alpha clone in AMD when they could be producing and A > >>using the top chip in the industry ... genius strategy HP ...  > >  > > G > > I understand your frustration, Bob, but it looks like you're really + > > "reaching" for something to carp about.  > > I > > While plenty of companies - including SUN, BTW - are avoiding the I64 F > > bandwagon in droves, that hardly turns people who make ill-advised > > choices a "laughing stock".  > > J > > Gotta be honest here: many of us lambast HP to some degree for our own> > > reasons, and deservedly so, it would seem, at least to us. > > K > > It may be in your best interest - and VMS's - to tone down the rhetoric 
 > > a bit. > >  > > Whaddaya say?  > >  > ? > I'm thinking that more people need to show their frustration.  > H > Either the half dozen or so of us crackpots are just that, or, many ofI > us can see what would be better and cannot understand how DEC/Compaq/HP  > could be so blind and stupid.    Likely, both are correct.   G The point, as I just wrote to Bob, is that no one who makes a rat's ass  of a difference gives a spit.   H We can rail against it until Saint Swithun's Day. In the final analysis,- I doubt the impact will be easily measurable.   I > Quite recently someone mentioned that curly and carly weren't technical I > people, and were not listening to their technical people.  I'm thinking & > that is a large part of the problem.  # Nothing unusual in the ivory tower.   J > As for boob, it would be better if he thought just a bit before posting,F > found some capitol letters, and didn't snip everything to which he's > replying.    Agree 100% on that one.    >  But turn down the heat, nix.   B Well, that's what c.o.v. is all about, as much as we might wish itA weren't: we come here to vent our spleens as much as we come here - seeking technical assistance from each other.   $ My only comment was along this line:  D Some one posted a while back that they were pissed of about what wasD being said in this group. My response was that "to stop the negativeC response, take away the stimulus" could easily be misinterpreted as  putting VMS out of our misery.  < As many here are quick to post: be careful what you ask for.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:53:08 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> C Subject: Re: HP, Intel becoming laughing stock of computer industry , Message-ID: <43D84789.A462253C@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: B > > HP has not made any attempts to kill rumours of IA64's demise. > ; > They've not made any visible efforts either way - PERIOD!   H HP responds to every rumous about its core business (Wintel and ink). ItE doesn't respond to VMS related concerns. HP has access to the world's H leading PR and advertising with huge budgets. They know what needs to beK done. They consistently choose not to respond to the VMS and IA64 concerns.     D > "Would consider" is hardly a condemnation to oblivion of anything.  G HP is leaking an ambiguous statement that leaves the door opened to the H total exit of mainframes. They are not taking active steps to close that> door, something they would be doing if it concerned their core wintel/ink business.  C > Could mean (nothing dire) - it could mean much more, much less or  > nothing at all.   F Companies do not leave out such ambiguities about their core products.8 Uncertaintly about a product's future kills the product.   > Moot. Speculation.  K Yep. And it is HP's fault to make statemenst/leaks that create speculation.   I > Suffice it to say: VMS has survived this long. There's a reason for it.   M Don't rest your laurels because VMS has escaped Gartner's predictiosn SO FAR.   D A doctor can diagnose cancer in a patient and the patient can have aH very slow decline that is much slowed than predicted, but eventually, it will drop down.   D You need to consider that once a decision is made to abandon VMS, itC takes a long time to actually get the machine out. Consider a SWIFT H installation who would have decided in mid 1990s that VMS was going out,F had to wait until 2002 before the Solaris version was fully developpedH with the same features and must now keep their old vases for 7 years dueA to archival requirements and the fact that the abandonned product - doesn't provide means to export the archives.   E And consider the installed base number which changed by 25%. When the F time comes to decide whether to give VMS a life beyond IA64, they willJ look at that drop and perhaps decide it isn't worth any new effort on VMS.  G If they know the number of remaining VMS sites who are just maintaining F the last few remaining apps or keeping these systems alive only due toB archival requirements, they may be seeing an every greater "serverB consolidation" coming for VMS (aka: major drop in installed base).   Re: black helicopters.  L We were fooled once with Alpha. Don't let them fool you about VMS once more.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:46:37 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Intel, AMD CPUs nothing more than alpha clones!, Message-ID: <43D7F1B8.EB859BCC@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: J > overhaul the x86, even though it sorely needs it. When Fab 36 cranks up,I > AMD will overcome that fear. AMD64 processors will take on performance, H > scalability, resource management, and availability-related instruction6 > set extensions that will be proprietary to AMD CPUs.    A Didn't AMD agree to let Intel use its 64 bit extensions designs ?   D If those extra instructions are truly going to be proprietary, it isE probably to satisfy the requirements of Sun which is an AMD only shop B and wants to scale its 8086 systems up, so those instructrions are probably going to help it.  G BTW, yesterday, CNET reported that AMD's market share had now surpassed B 20%.  In some metrics , I have seen that it surpassed 10%. But allD reports agree that AMD is substantially increasing its market share.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:39:11 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>< Subject: Re: Intel, AMD CPUs nothing more than alpha clones!+ Message-ID: <43D8364F.F63854B2@comcast.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  > Dave Froble wrote: > >  > > ; > > Haven't heard anything about that.  Got any references?  > 3 > Best I can track down right now is the following:  >  > ===== R > http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/10/26/44OPcurve_1.html?source=rss&url=http:/ > J > One strategic path that will knock you for a loop, and which Ill detail? > soon, is AMDs coming escape from the confines of Intels x86 D > instruction set. To this point, AMD has resisted the temptation toJ > overhaul the x86, even though it sorely needs it. When Fab 36 cranks up,I > AMD will overcome that fear. AMD64 processors will take on performance, H > scalability, resource management, and availability-related instructionG > set extensions that will be proprietary to AMD CPUs. Dont freak out: > > AMD will keep its contract to be 100 percent compatible withI > Intel-standard processors. But the idea of seeing optimized for AMD64 G > stamped on software boxes delights me. Another journalist at the same @ > event posited that AMDs technological lead over Intel will beA > short-lived and is calling game over once Intels new Pentium G > M-derived cores debut across the product line. With due respect to my H > colleague, AMD will extend its lead, showing Intels reactive strategy > for what it is.   H Hey, if it prompts HP/VMS to add AMD to the stable, I say let 'em go for it!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:34:24 GMT 2 From: "Patrick J. Gleason" <pgleason@twcny.rr.com>! Subject: Re: SimH V3.5-2 released 9 Message-ID: <kOUBf.104290$XJ5.47368@twister.nyroc.rr.com>    vaxorcist wrote:< > Anyone who wants to try one of the following VMS versions:* > - 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 > - 4.4, 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, > I'll be glad to supply those listed above. >  > I'm still looking for: > - 1.x  > - 2.x 0 > - 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.7A (with LAVC support) > Can anyone help? > E > Additionally I've got about 95% of the V3 Manuals and 90% of the V4 
 > manuals.F > All will be scanned and made publicly accessible. But that will take > some time. > H > AA-M545B-TE VAX-11-780 Software Installation Guide VMS V3.2 is already > available. > A > Who has got VMS V1.x and/or V2.x manuals??? Please let me know!  >  > 	 > Regards  >  > Ulli > A > P.S. I will start VMS 3.0 testing on SIMH VAX-11/780 as soon as  > possible.  > E I will have to look through the stash of stuff in my attic for those  G early versions of VMS.  I know that I have the source code for XVM/RSX  2 on DecTape up there, but that's a different story.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:59:53 -0500 2 From: "Timothy Stark" <fsword7_nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: SimH V3.5-2 released 0 Message-ID: <5p6dnWJWlbuZgkXeRVn-rA@comcast.com>  > "vaxorcist" <hoelscher-kirchbrak@freenet.de> wrote in message = news:1138098235.825842.155470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... < > Anyone who wants to try one of the following VMS versions:* > - 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 > - 4.4, 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, > I'll be glad to supply those listed above.  L Yes, I am interested in that. I would like to work on both Simh and my TS10 M VAX emulator with that old versions.  I did finally finished and implemented  G 11/780 code into my latest TS10 emulator and was able boot OpenVMS 6.1  = through VMB and SYSBOOT then crash after banner announcement.    Thanks!  Tim    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:58:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Telnet over WAN latency troubleshooting, Message-ID: <43D7F49D.7028BCD7@teksavvy.com>   Rich Jordan wrote: > E > I'm running through all the menus and don't see any way to get line B > quality information.  Apparently you have to use the browser/guiH > interface to get that, and I can't  since its only accessible from theD > LAN interface of the modem.  Maybe there's a way to get to the CLI# > instead of the menus.  Hopefully.   H When I got my DSL modem, I called up 3com to ask about documentation forA the CLI. The droid automatically answered that that was no CLI or G documentation for that modem. My ISP had the PDF document available for G the CLI of that modem, and it had been prepared by the manufacturer who - had just told me such things didn't exist :-)   B In terms of my router, I had to go to the manufacturert,s web siteH (netgear) and did find one. Furthermore, when I reflashed my router withG the Zyxel firmware (netgear routers were manufactured by Zyxel), I also D found documents on the net giving the fill CLI and that included far$ more commands than what Netgear had.  G And if I looked in the tech support notes, I also found explanations on * how to use the tracing with full examples.  D I guess this is the difference between "real" routers and "consumer"H routers. The real routers come with real documentation and when you callB for support, you get someone who gives you real answers instead of- "sorryk that doesn't exist" standard answers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:04:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha", Message-ID: <43D7F5F4.F95F4AB4@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:? > Intel may be cutting real sweet deals on price to combat AMD.  > G > It's rumored that AMD is basically 'sold out', all current production  > already spoken for.     H At the moment, Intel's laptop chips are better than AMDs.  So for Apple,E going with Intel gave them acccess to full range of chips right away.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:21:25 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>< Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"+ Message-ID: <dr915l$f52$1@news01.intel.com>    Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote: K >> The 8086, due to competition from AMD, morphed into a respectable 64 bit J >> chip to such an extent that even Intel started to make 64 bit 8086s andE >> agree to narrow IA64's remaining market niche to high end systems.  > H > I have found no information stating that the Duo Core chip implements J > EMT64.  I might be wrong, but I think Apple has chosen a 32bit chip for H > their first generation of Intel chips.  I wonder why they did not buy F > AMD chips instead so that they could base their computers on 64-bit  > technology from the start.   [$ set mode/nostealth]  7 Let me just note that Apple have told Intel they're not 7 interested in the server market, i.e., stuff that would 8 need 64 bit capable cpus.  It's just not where they want to go, at least at present.   6 The big deal these days is low-power/high performance,< which is where Intel is going in our development (especially; important for laptops, which is where all the market growth  is).  > Oh, and while I generally abhor marketing and marketing terms,< e.g., "OpenVMS", that would be "Core Duo"...probably (tm)... not the reverse.  B And now I'll just step into the background and out of sight... :-)   [$ set mode/stealth]   	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 22:04:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: The processor wars Part 1, "The death of Alpha"3 Message-ID: <2aNLJAAdQauY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <03vBf.2036$MO4.55@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>  J >> I had seen DEC presentations in 1999 that clearly showed how IA64 was aK >> flawed architecture and that Intel would be forefer struggling with that G >> bloated beast. And some ex Intel folks also said that Intel was also + >> aware of IA64's shortcomings internally.  >>     > C > Not to defend or deny what you heard (I heard many of those same  K > presentations as well), what do people think of Apple switching to Intel  I > chips.  For years, Apple and Steve Jobs have said many negative things  J > about Intel chips in favor of PowerPC.  Now that they've switched, were J > they lying in the past?  Is this similar to the Alpha vs Itanium switch? >   ? 	Apple was smart.  Apple didn't have much of a choice - really. ? 	Now I'll bet Apple is another Dell.  Exclusive Intel.  They've @ 	got that sweetheart discount as an Intel-only OEM.  Win-win for 	both Intel and Apple.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:30:15 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> Y Subject: The processor wars Part III, Waiting for Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest: Q&A with N 9 Message-ID: <UmXBf.23486$ve.414348@news20.bellglobal.com>   I For all you chip heads out there, part 3/5 was posted today (2006-01-25).   7 http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20060125PR200.html     
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 11:02:02 -0800 From: bob.birch@gmail.com 3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page C Message-ID: <1138215722.107882.117850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   5 How about Firefox ? Any similar selection available ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:51:50 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page , Message-ID: <43D7F2F1.6B264DAE@teksavvy.com>   JOUKJ wrote:G > At least for me it is less tiring for my eyes : It save me a headache G > not having to look at a too light screen, on which the less important ) > thing (the background) is (hi-)lighted.     / For VT terminals, this was definitely the case.   B However, for GUI displays with greater sharpness, despite what oneB "feels", the white background/withe text is the best for an officeG environment. Your pupils are smaller due to greater amount of light and = thus you see sharper text. And when you switch from screen to / desk/paper, there is less of a dramatic change.   F If you work in a dark environment (think air traffic controllers in anH underground windowless envrionment), then things are guite different and# the dark background becomes better.   A Another problem with web pages is that there are pages where they E purposefully put the background black, but use javascript to set text G colour to white, but if you have javascript disabled, the text is black  on a black background :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:45:33 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page + Message-ID: <43D837CD.36211C61@comcast.net>    Stefaan A Eeckels wrote: > $ > On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:46:07 -06005 > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > ( > > Artifact of Netscape Navigator Gold. > > B > > ...but I gotta ask the question: Why would you set the default? > > background to anything other than the installation default?  > F > I have a colleague (much younger than me) who has gone through greatI > lengths to give all his windows a black background and phosphorus-green G > foreground. Why anyone would willingly recreate the (at least for me) D > tear-jerking situation of the late seventies is beyond me, but "de  > gustibus non est disputandum".  G Actually, I had a whole batch of green-phosphor VT220s at a former site ? in the middle to late 80's. The choice was based on the general F preference of that over white or amber for visibility and comfort over extended viewing times.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:46:13 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page + Message-ID: <43D837F5.FAFC06D6@comcast.net>    JOUKJ wrote: >  > Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:& > > On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:46:07 -06007 > > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > >  > > ( > >>Artifact of Netscape Navigator Gold. > >>B > >>...but I gotta ask the question: Why would you set the default? > >>background to anything other than the installation default?  > >  > > H > > I have a colleague (much younger than me) who has gone through greatK > > lengths to give all his windows a black background and phosphorus-green I > > foreground. Why anyone would willingly recreate the (at least for me) F > > tear-jerking situation of the late seventies is beyond me, but "de" > > gustibus non est disputandum". > > G > At least for me it is less tiring for my eyes : It save me a headache G > not having to look at a too light screen, on which the less important ) > thing (the background) is (hi-)lighted.   E I keep my PC screen brightness turned *WAY* down for similar reasons.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:48:34 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page + Message-ID: <43D83882.D90C1246@comcast.net>    Michael Roach wrote: > [snip]G > One of my kids' ex-babysitters has a disability where she has trouble C > focusing on anything dark with a light background, say, text in a J > textbook. (I forget what this syndrome is called.) It turns out she doesH > best with green letters on a black background. (She could have a great > future as a NOC operator.) > C > But I will never undersdand why some web authors think light gray . > letters on a pastel floral background is OK.  D How 'bout dark blue on black? To me, that's virtually invisible. TheE only color issue I seem to have is in the bluest end of the spectrum.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:00:29 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>3 Subject: Re: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page * Message-ID: <43d83b5d@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H Yup.  Human factors died when the masses got ahold of things. On the oneG hand, there is now a lot more information available (note I did not say I useable or correct information) but little good design.  Heck, I remember J having to check out displays on black & white displays just to make sure aI color blind person could read it.  I recently tried to set my PC to light H text and dark backgrounds - and found that many, many things don't work.H Not only web pages, but the fact that most people using PCs send mail in HTML format.    6 "Stefaan A Eeckels" <hoendech@ecc.lu> wrote in message/ news:20060126003540.1f79f48a.hoendech@ecc.lu... $ > On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:58:28 -0500* > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > E > > The similar question is why would anyone designing a web page set C > > anything to override the defaults that each user has decided is  > > 'right' for themselves?  > H > Because many of their "designs" or rely on effects created by specificF > colors (like green letters on black background). The schooling theseI > "artists" have received concentrates on these effects, not on effective I > communications. As it happens, I must have been ranked with sputum by a I > young, fresh-out-of-school Web page designer whom I told that I want my J > web pages to look like, well, eh, pages out of a book, and that I wasn'tI > interested in an animated, colorized Flash version of my logo. The look F > of total bewilderment in his eyes was priceless, and more than worth7 > the 15 minutes I spent listening to his presentation.  >  > --  	 > Stefaan  > --  7 > As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning, : > and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:54:50 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: using COM port ( Message-ID: <ops3yhxodbzgicya@hyrrokkin>  L  From a Windows box I can log into a VMS node (XP1000 7.3) thru the COM portF using Hyperterm with settings  9600-8-N-1  simmilarly I can log into aF Cisco router thru another COM port on Windows with settings 9600-8-N-2  C Now how can I log in from the VMS box to the Cisco router, assuming ; I have recabled it appropriately?  isn't it SET HOST OPA0 ?    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2006 15:07:50 -0800( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> Subject: Re: using COM port B Message-ID: <1138230469.948873.39180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  G SET HOST/DTE TTA0: (or OPA0, or whatever).  Alternatively you could get ) C-Kermit and have a lot more flexibility.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:07:02 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: using COM port , Message-ID: <43D8048C.ED8F6020@teksavvy.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  > N >  From a Windows box I can log into a VMS node (XP1000 7.3) thru the COM port, > using Hyperterm with settings  9600-8-N-1   H Assuming the OPA0 isn't used, you should simply need to press RETURN and- this shoudl start the login process on OPA0:.   E By default, you do get OPCOM messages, you can use REPLY/DISABLE once F logged in to temporarily disable the messages (they get turned back on when you logout).   E > Now how can I log in from the VMS box to the Cisco router, assuming = > I have recabled it appropriately?  isn't it SET HOST OPA0 ?    SET HOST/DTE OPA0:  I Will then connect your current terminal to whatever is connected to OPA0:    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.051 ************************