1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Jul 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 374       Contents:) HP to get rid of certain office locations  Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay dead  Re: Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay dead  RE: Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay dead $ RE: Multiple FTP servers - possible?$ Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible?$ Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible?$ Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible?: Never Happen!!  was Re: The possibility of vms opening up? Re: Office Friendly RX2620 Re: Office Friendly RX2620' Re: OT: Intel quad core X64 benchmarked  Re: OT: Ken Lay dead Re: OT: Ken Lay dead Re: OT: Ken Lay dead7 Re: Problem mounting MSA1000 in Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rack 7 Re: Problem mounting MSA1000 in Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rack 7 Re: Problem mounting MSA1000 in Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rack & Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:55:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: HP to get rid of certain office locations, Message-ID: <44ADDB36.F4FB24F8@teksavvy.com>  ^ http://news.com.com/HP+looks+to+downsize+living+quarters/2100-1022_3-6091269.html?tag=nefd.top  C The gist of it: Hurd wants to cut costs, realises that with all the D acquisitions, there are way too many offices  and wants to eliminate  redundant office sites/campuses.  2 Is it time to develop a petition to save ZKO ?????   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 06:50:50 +08003 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> $ Subject: Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay dead0 Message-ID: <e8k40d$aa$1@news-02.connect.com.au>  
 Hi Steven,  H >    Of course, the loosers who frequent this group might be more likely? > to claim that "Ken Laid dead." or "Ken Layed dead.", instead.   F I am sick of this incompetence; I think you'll find it's "loser's" :-)   Cheers Richard Maher   PS. (Or should that be "its"?)  I BTW. Those from the UK know well that ken is now living it up with Robert  Maxwell and the pension fund.   7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message , news:06070617151022_2024476F@antinode.org...I >    Can I assume that everyone has noticed that "Ken Lay dead." could be H > construed as a complete sentence (with excessive capitalization as its > only grammatical defect)?  > H >    Of course, the loosers who frequent this group might be more likely? > to claim that "Ken Laid dead." or "Ken Layed dead.", instead.  > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2006 00:10:38 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay dead, Message-ID: <4h5n3uF1pn0m6U1@individual.net>  0 In article <e8k40d$aa$1@news-02.connect.com.au>,6 	"Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: > Hi Steven, > I >>    Of course, the loosers who frequent this group might be more likely @ >> to claim that "Ken Laid dead." or "Ken Layed dead.", instead. > H > I am sick of this incompetence; I think you'll find it's "loser's" :-) >  > Cheers Richard Maher >   > PS. (Or should that be "its"?) > K > BTW. Those from the UK know well that ken is now living it up with Robert  > Maxwell and the pension fund.   < Right next to Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamsters Retirement Fund.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:09:42 -0400@ From: "Koska, John C. \(LNG-ALB\)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>( Subject: RE: Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay deadR Message-ID: <D8D507FABDE21843BD4BD5791ADCB12AF6FC99@LNGALBEXCP01VA.legal.regn.net>  E Please!!! Robert Maxwell aka J=E1n Ludvik Hoch!  My former boss got = G bumped off by the Massad, well really the CIA, off the Canary Islands = G for being an Israeli spy of unspeakable offenses against American and = H European peoples.  Good riddens to his kind, although I understand why =I he was the way he was.  A sad life in the end.  He could have been much = J better, but was a hero for Israeli for stealing all sorts of technology, =J and providing the ability to compromise other intelligence organizations =6 and accomplishing corporate espionage for his masters.   :) jck   -----Original Message-----; From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com]=20 % Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:51 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ Subject: Moron! Re: OT: Ken Lay dead  
 Hi Steven,  J >    Of course, the loosers who frequent this group might be more likely =  ? > to claim that "Ken Laid dead." or "Ken Layed dead.", instead.   F I am sick of this incompetence; I think you'll find it's "loser's" :-)   Cheers Richard Maher   PS. (Or should that be "its"?)  D BTW. Those from the UK know well that ken is now living it up with =$ Robert Maxwell and the pension fund.  9 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message = , news:06070617151022_2024476F@antinode.org...I >    Can I assume that everyone has noticed that "Ken Lay dead." could=20 J > be construed as a complete sentence (with excessive capitalization as=20 > its only grammatical defect)?  > J >    Of course, the loosers who frequent this group might be more likely =  ? > to claim that "Ken Laid dead." or "Ken Layed dead.", instead.  > H > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:40:49 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> - Subject: RE: Multiple FTP servers - possible? T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684016B0509@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Hans Blom [mailto:hans.y.blom@telia.com]=20  > Sent: July 5, 2006 3:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / > Subject: Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible?  >=20 > sol gongola wrote:# > > hanblo {at} netscape.net wrote:  > >> Hello, D > >> we have a problem with ftp-clients setting up connections at anB > >> tremendous speed. This means our ftp-server isn't to happy=20 > about the < > >> situation and starts refusing connections. Would the=20 > proper remedy be< > >> to try to start a second ftp-server on another port?=20 > Anybody has any 8 > >> experience on how to handle this kind of situation?A > >> OpenVMS 7.3-2, TCPIP 5.4 ECO 4 on AlphaServer ES47 7/1000=20 
 > with 16 GB.  > >> > >> Regards	 > >> Hans  > >> > >=20? > > I assume "tremendous speed" is many connections within a=20  > short period of 	 > > time. @ > > If you could set up a second ftp server on the same machine,C > > it wouldn't solve the problem of too many connection coming in.  > >=20; > > Maybe if you described the situation a little better... 7 > > Are you supposed to be getting so many connections? 8 > > Are they for uploading to the server or downloading.G > > Are the connections coming from the internet or only from your LAN. / > > All from the same machine or many machines.  > >=20B > > Opening and closing connections for each transfer uses more=20 > resources < > > than keeping the connection open for multiple transfers. > >=20C > > If you have to have numerous file transfers, you might consider 3 > > using nfs or file sharing (pathworks or samba).  > >=20 > > regards  > > sol  > >=20 > >=20 > >=20A > I understand that setting up a second server will not reduce=20  > the amountH > of incoming connections, but since one of OpenVMS' shortcomings (don'tG > hit me) is creating processes, there at least will be another process ' > doing it's chores "at the same time".  >=20G > Unfortunately this is incoming puts and gets from mostly internet and F > some are from the local lan. The internet ones are from an external,H > let's call it, serviceprovider and they from time to time have quite aA > lot of files to transfer. Apparently their application can't=20  > transfer aF > lot of files in one connection, but there is one connection for eachG > file. They also have the illusion it's realtime data, which isn't the  > case at all.0 > nfs and so on are totally out of the question.	 > Regards  > Hans >=20  C Another option is to set up load balancing across multiple NIC's to C improve the overall throughput. While it will not help the incoming 7 side, the outgoing (or transmit) side will be improved.   ! Reference: (see failSAFE IP info) ? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/tcpip.pdf    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:30:00 GMT % From: Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> - Subject: Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible? 0 Message-ID: <cperg.176$J02.124@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( Hans Blom <hans.y.blom@telia.com> wrote:C > Apparently their application can't transfer a lot of files in one 8 > connection, but there is one connection for each file.  E I presume you mean a new FTP control connection for each file? (Since < by definition, FTP has a new data connection for each file).  
 rick jones --  ? Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.  F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)D feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:17:06 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible? 0 Message-ID: <44ADB611.38945614@spam.comcast.net>   Hans Blom wrote: > [snip]I > I understand that setting up a second server will not reduce the amount H > of incoming connections, but since one of OpenVMS' shortcomings (don't  > hit me) is creating processes,  H Well, o.k., I won't "hit" you, but I will suggest you read up a bit more# rather than spit up Usenet drivel.    ? *EVERY* o.s. has to create a process to handle a network login, H regardless of the source, and they have about the same overhead. The VMS; difference has to do with SUB-processes as opposed to UN*X.   ( > there at least will be another process' > doing it's chores "at the same time".  > G > Unfortunately this is incoming puts and gets from mostly internet and F > some are from the local lan. The internet ones are from an external,H > let's call it, serviceprovider and they from time to time have quite aI > lot of files to transfer. Apparently their application can't transfer a F > lot of files in one connection, but there is one connection for eachG > file. They also have the illusion it's realtime data, which isn't the  > case at all.  @ Not sure how your system can be expected to make up for a poorly designed application.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:20:08 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Multiple FTP servers - possible? 0 Message-ID: <44ADB6C8.82C7C449@spam.comcast.net>   Rick Jones wrote:  > * > Hans Blom <hans.y.blom@telia.com> wrote:E > > Apparently their application can't transfer a lot of files in one : > > connection, but there is one connection for each file. > G > I presume you mean a new FTP control connection for each file? (Since > > by definition, FTP has a new data connection for each file).  0 Sounds to me like the equivalent of a series of:  $ $ spawn/nowait copy/ftp infile dest:  + ...commands fired off in rapid succession.     --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:53:24 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> C Subject: Never Happen!!  was Re: The possibility of vms opening up? : Message-ID: <3IGdnWu6YdoYLTDZnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>davidc@montagar.com wrote: >>E >>>1)  OpenVMS passes information through verifiable structures, like  >>>descriptors.  >>J >>That is not the case all the time anymore, not since they ported so muchA >>unix software to VMS, including TCPIP Services which by today's 0 >>standards, is a core operating system feature. >  > G > While various utilities, and programs may use null-terminate strings, H > etc for TCPIP, you still have to go through $QIO to get to the kernel.F > The biggest issue is still with DOS attacks, but not really exploits# > (like IIS buffer overflows, etc).  >   I The probability of VMS "opening up" is far lower than the probability of  8 winning the Irish Sweepstakes without buying a ticket!!!  % This thread needs a new subject line!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:18:24 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) # Subject: Re: Office Friendly RX2620 Z Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607062218230001@dialup-4.233.128.84.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>  J In article <1152187183.232377.12140@a14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Martin( Walker" <martin.walker@csf.co.uk> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: > L >> In article <1eeUs0g5Hhxa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net >> (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  >>L >> >I keep hearing about an "office friendly kit" or "office friendly model"J >> >of the IA64 RX2620, which disallows a redundant power supply but makes& >> >the machine run much more quietly. >> >; >> >But I can find no information on www.hp.com about this.  >> >Neither can Google.  >> >" >> >Can anyone provide a pointer ? >>J >> I can't find it either.  Maybe someone lost the web page (again).  I'll >> ask around for more info. >  >I'm told... > > >"You can order it as an additional part number AD244A for theF >replacement fans on top of an order for a standard rx2620. It can now >be 1 >factory integrated rather than a field upgrade."   G Yes, AD244A is the right product number for the upgrade/conversion kit.   E I had understood that the office-friendly version would get different @ product numbers for the system.  It appears that did not happen.  B There are several flavors of rx2620 available, as described in theI QuickSpecs.  The main difference between them is which CPU speed you get.   H Any of them can be ordered for rack mounting or in a deskside pedestal. H These are the same except for the skins and the front bezel.  The system' doesn't know which configuration it is.   G If you select pedestal mounting, you can also select the AD224A option, J which gets you different fans and different firmware behavior.  The latest> quickspecs mentions option HA113A1, which is the field upgradeD installation service for AD224A.  There's supposed to be a differentH option to get AD224A installed at the factory.  Maybe it's the usual 0D1H option; the folks who could answer that with certainty are on vacation. I I'm sure it's possible because we have bought some of these configured at  the factory.  H AD224A is NOT customer-installable, because it requires a FW change that8 can only be done when the system is in a protected mode.  H There are also accessory kits to convert a rack-mount system to pedestalE mount, and vice versa. Those are customer-installable, but they won't % change a noisy system to a quiet one.   E The AD224A option is only sold for the pedestal-mount system, not the J rack-mount variety.  If you have AD224A, the system DOES know that it is aI different configuration.  The fan control algorithm is different, and the G thermal setpoints are different.  Also (as noted in the quickspecs), it F doesn't support the redundant power supply and fans.  VMS doesn't care which flavor you have.  H The rx2620 is significantly louder than the rx2600.  It uses faster fansJ and moves more air.  The quiet rx2620 seems a bit quieter than the rx2600.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 03:06:37 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) # Subject: Re: Office Friendly RX2620 Z Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607062306360001@dialup-4.233.128.84.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>  C In article <1152194791.265825.297090@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, < "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote:L >> In article <1eeUs0g5Hhxa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net >> (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  >>L >> >I keep hearing about an "office friendly kit" or "office friendly model"J >> >of the IA64 RX2620, which disallows a redundant power supply but makes& >> >the machine run much more quietly. >> >; >> >But I can find no information on www.hp.com about this.  >> >Neither can Google.  >> >" >> >Can anyone provide a pointer ? >>J >> I can't find it either.  Maybe someone lost the web page (again).  I'll >> ask around for more info. >   >Maybe it was called the ZX6000?  H No, the zx6000 and zx2000 are both variants of the rx2600.  They run theI same firmware image and have the same motherboard.  They have McKinley or  Madison families of CPUs.   E The zx2000 has a "fat" chassis, and I think it has room for more disk I drives.  (The quickspecs needs fonts I don't have so it's basically blank  for me.)  J The zx6000 is basically an rx2600 with a variant of the PCI card cage that# has 1 AGP slot for a graphics card.   I zx2000 and zx6000 are both retired.  VMS never officially supported them.   I All the rx2620 series systems use a different motherboard than the rx2600 G series, with significantly different firmware.  No zx6000-style chassis A was ever offered, and the AGP-enabled IO card cage wasn't brought I forward.  The rx2620 family have Madison 9 CPUs (I don't think Intel uses G that name any more) with new CPU offerings expected Real Soon Now (tm).   G The rx2620 has an office-friendly (quiet) version; the rx2600 did not.  * But the rx2600 was tolerably quiet anyway.  I VMS supports the rx2600 (but not with McKinley CPUs) and the whole rx2620 G family.  (VMS runs on rx2600 McKinley systems, but was never officially I qualified since they were past end of life before VMS V8.2 was released.)     I While I'm comparing systems, I'll mention that both the rx1600 and rx1620 H (the 1U systems) are WICKED loud.  IMHO, they are totally unsuitable for an office environment.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 21:58:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: OT: Intel quad core X64 benchmarked, Message-ID: <44ADBFB6.2E6EA43A@teksavvy.com>   Keith Parris wrote: I > upgrading to dual-core there). By adding x86 at the low end it's simply H > moving in the direction of the same sort of CPU product mix HP has had > all along.    D So, when is VMS going to be available natively on HP 8086 servers soE that it too can participate in the biggest market portions (small and  medium business) ??????????   G As long as VMS is restricted to that IA64 thing, it stands no chance to G grow and plant itself into smaller and m,idsize customers who will grow  to be big customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:50:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: OT: Ken Lay dead , Message-ID: <44AD4D40.F6C105D0@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  $ > > Could someone have poisoned him? > G > Yep, here come the black helicopters. I'll bet they used that secret, - > undetectable, untraceable CIA poison.   :-)     E I prefer the theory that he paid someone else to die for him. Lay can C then stay at a friend's Ranch in Crawford Texas instead of going to 4 prison. I hear Ossama is also staying at that ranch.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 22:03:52 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: Ken Lay dead , Message-ID: <4h5fm8F1peasnU1@individual.net>  , In article <44AD4D40.F6C105D0@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > % >> > Could someone have poisoned him?  >>  H >> Yep, here come the black helicopters. I'll bet they used that secret,. >> undetectable, untraceable CIA poison.   :-) >  > G > I prefer the theory that he paid someone else to die for him. Lay can E > then stay at a friend's Ranch in Crawford Texas instead of going to 6 > prison. I hear Ossama is also staying at that ranch.  G Gee, that's funny.  I heard Osama Bin Laden was staying at the Al Queda G training camp in northern Quebec where he gets support by promising the J Quebecois that he'll help them next.  As for Ken Lay, I hear he was movingK all his money horth of the border cause that way the number is even bigger.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:15:10 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: OT: Ken Lay dead 2 Message-ID: <06070617151022_2024476F@antinode.org>  G    Can I assume that everyone has noticed that "Ken Lay dead." could be F construed as a complete sentence (with excessive capitalization as its only grammatical defect)?   F    Of course, the loosers who frequent this group might be more likely= to claim that "Ken Laid dead." or "Ken Layed dead.", instead.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 10:52:13 -0700  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk@ Subject: Re: Problem mounting MSA1000 in Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rackA Message-ID: <1152208332.444593.54620@j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi Alan,  D I've only mounted MSA1000s in 10,000 series racks where the includedG rack mount suffices.  Hunting round through Google appears to have come  up trumps though:   @ It looks to me like the MSA500 and the MSA1000 are the same formG factor.  The MSA500 does have rack mounts specifically for the m-series ! rack.  Part number for these are: 
 313877-B21 or 3R-A5281-AA   9 The latter translates to "MSA500 M-Series Rack Rail Kit".   ? That said, it doesn't match the documentation that does say the * included brackets fit hp and compaq racks.   Steve    Alan Frisbie wrote: @ > I tried posting this in comp.sys.dec and comp.sys.hp.hardware,< > but didn't get any response.    Are any VMS users using an( > MSA1000?   How do you have it mounted? >  > *****  > ; > I need some help mounting an HP MSA1000 disk array into a < > Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rack.   My problem is that the supplied  > slides do not fit in the rack. > G > According to the MSA1000 QuickSpecs, the H9A15-xx rack is a supported O > cabinet: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11621_na/11621_na.html  > & > The MSA1000 Installation Guide says: > D >    "To help you install your MSA1000, each MSA1000 is shipped withB >    a rack-mounting kit that includes the required components for? >    quick installation in Compaq-branded, HP-branded, and most ? >    square- and round-hole third-party racks.   The adjustable A >    feature of the rack rails enables installation in racks with 6 >    depths of 69.90 to 73.81 cm (27.52 to 29.06 in)." > ; > The problem is that my Compaq H9A15-MC rack (the same one > > specified for AlphaServers such as the ES-40) has a depth of: > 25" between the front and rear rails.   Also, the slides6 > simply do not fit to either the front or rear rails. > B > First, the MSA1000 slides do not have a right-angle bracket like@ > most slides, but are designed to butt right up to the holes in= > the rack's vertical rails.   However, the so-called "return > > flange" on the H9A15 rails prevent this.   The return flangeB > offset is 0.27", and would need to be 0.5" for the rails to fit.= > BTW, a good introduction to the use and terminology of rack < > slides is from Accuride, "Designing Slides Into Electronic > Enclosures".E > http://www.accuride.com/products/pdfs/designing_slides_contents.pdf  > > > This problem is illustrated in a couple of photographs and a
 > drawing: > 5 > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Front.jpg  > ? > The first photo is looking from the front of the rack towards A > the left-hand rail, showing the MSA1000 slide propped in place. ? > It is pushed as far to the left as it will go, stopped by the ? > "return flange" in the center of the photo.   As you can see, ? > the mounting holes/screws of the MSA1000 slide do not line up  > with the holes in the rack.  > # > The second photo is from the top:  > 3 > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Top.jpg  > @ > You can see how the slide is pushed against the return flange,< > but its mounting screws/holes line up with the edge of the% > front rail, not the mounting holes.  > C > The third image is a dimensioned drawing of the H9A15-MC mounting " > rail, as seen in the two photos: > 7 > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/H9A15_Top_Drwg.jpg  > @ > Note that the return flange is almost exactly in line with the: > mounting holes.   This makes it impossible to install an, > MSA1000 (or similar) slide into this rack. > @ > Even if the H9A15 did not have the return flanges, there would< > still be the problem of length.   The distance between the; > front and rear rails of the H9A15 is 25", but the MSA1000 = > rails will only adjust between approximately 27.5" and 29".  > 2 > The length problem is illustrated by two photos: > 7 > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Overall.jpg 4 > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Rear.jpg > ? > The piece near the rear end of the slide moves back and forth ? > to accommodate different depths.   In the photos, it is shown * > in the most forward (shortest) position. >  > I have two guesses:  > = > 1. The design of the H9A15 rack was changed somewhere along & >     the line, and I have an old one. > : > 2. The documentation is flat-out wrong about the MSA1000 >     fitting in an H9A15. > = > Has anyone successfully mounted an MSA1000 in an H9A15 rack  > with the supplied rails? > < > Is my H9A15 rack different than others with the same model	 > number?  > < > Does anyone have an H9A15 rack with different rails than I > have?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 10:53:37 -0700  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk@ Subject: Re: Problem mounting MSA1000 in Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rackB Message-ID: <1152208416.727823.64700@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   BTW, the part details came from 7 http://www.compurex.com/servers/hpcompaq_alpha_ds15.htm    Steve    etmsr...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: 
 > Hi Alan, > F > I've only mounted MSA1000s in 10,000 series racks where the includedI > rack mount suffices.  Hunting round through Google appears to have come  > up trumps though:  > B > It looks to me like the MSA500 and the MSA1000 are the same formI > factor.  The MSA500 does have rack mounts specifically for the m-series # > rack.  Part number for these are:  > 313877-B21 > or
 > 3R-A5281-AA  > ; > The latter translates to "MSA500 M-Series Rack Rail Kit".  > A > That said, it doesn't match the documentation that does say the , > included brackets fit hp and compaq racks. >  > Steve  >  > Alan Frisbie wrote: B > > I tried posting this in comp.sys.dec and comp.sys.hp.hardware,> > > but didn't get any response.    Are any VMS users using an* > > MSA1000?   How do you have it mounted? > > 	 > > *****  > > = > > I need some help mounting an HP MSA1000 disk array into a > > > Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rack.   My problem is that the supplied" > > slides do not fit in the rack. > > I > > According to the MSA1000 QuickSpecs, the H9A15-xx rack is a supported Q > > cabinet: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11621_na/11621_na.html  > > ( > > The MSA1000 Installation Guide says: > > F > >    "To help you install your MSA1000, each MSA1000 is shipped withD > >    a rack-mounting kit that includes the required components forA > >    quick installation in Compaq-branded, HP-branded, and most A > >    square- and round-hole third-party racks.   The adjustable C > >    feature of the rack rails enables installation in racks with 8 > >    depths of 69.90 to 73.81 cm (27.52 to 29.06 in)." > > = > > The problem is that my Compaq H9A15-MC rack (the same one @ > > specified for AlphaServers such as the ES-40) has a depth of< > > 25" between the front and rear rails.   Also, the slides8 > > simply do not fit to either the front or rear rails. > > D > > First, the MSA1000 slides do not have a right-angle bracket likeB > > most slides, but are designed to butt right up to the holes in? > > the rack's vertical rails.   However, the so-called "return @ > > flange" on the H9A15 rails prevent this.   The return flangeD > > offset is 0.27", and would need to be 0.5" for the rails to fit.? > > BTW, a good introduction to the use and terminology of rack > > > slides is from Accuride, "Designing Slides Into Electronic > > Enclosures".G > > http://www.accuride.com/products/pdfs/designing_slides_contents.pdf  > > @ > > This problem is illustrated in a couple of photographs and a > > drawing: > > 7 > > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Front.jpg  > > A > > The first photo is looking from the front of the rack towards C > > the left-hand rail, showing the MSA1000 slide propped in place. A > > It is pushed as far to the left as it will go, stopped by the A > > "return flange" in the center of the photo.   As you can see, A > > the mounting holes/screws of the MSA1000 slide do not line up  > > with the holes in the rack.  > > % > > The second photo is from the top:  > > 5 > > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Top.jpg  > > B > > You can see how the slide is pushed against the return flange,> > > but its mounting screws/holes line up with the edge of the' > > front rail, not the mounting holes.  > > E > > The third image is a dimensioned drawing of the H9A15-MC mounting $ > > rail, as seen in the two photos: > > 9 > > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/H9A15_Top_Drwg.jpg  > > B > > Note that the return flange is almost exactly in line with the< > > mounting holes.   This makes it impossible to install an. > > MSA1000 (or similar) slide into this rack. > > B > > Even if the H9A15 did not have the return flanges, there would> > > still be the problem of length.   The distance between the= > > front and rear rails of the H9A15 is 25", but the MSA1000 ? > > rails will only adjust between approximately 27.5" and 29".  > > 4 > > The length problem is illustrated by two photos: > > 9 > > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Overall.jpg 6 > > http://www.NelsonUSA.com/misc/rack/Rail_1_Rear.jpg > > A > > The piece near the rear end of the slide moves back and forth A > > to accommodate different depths.   In the photos, it is shown , > > in the most forward (shortest) position. > >  > > I have two guesses:  > > ? > > 1. The design of the H9A15 rack was changed somewhere along ( > >     the line, and I have an old one. > > < > > 2. The documentation is flat-out wrong about the MSA1000 > >     fitting in an H9A15. > > ? > > Has anyone successfully mounted an MSA1000 in an H9A15 rack  > > with the supplied rails? > > > > > Is my H9A15 rack different than others with the same model > > number?  > > > > > Does anyone have an H9A15 rack with different rails than I	 > > have?  > >  > > Thanks,  > > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:56:23 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>@ Subject: Re: Problem mounting MSA1000 in Compaq/HP H9A15-MC rack% Message-ID: <1152244549.763333@smirk>    Dan Notov wrote:  / > Yes, the M-series rail kit is the right part. < > Here is a link to the official QuickSpecs for the MSA1000:F > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11033_na/11033_na.HTML( > It's under Step 6, Choose Rack Options  6 Aha!   I think I see a clue.   You are referencing the8 QuickSpecs for the MSA1000, specific for Intel, AMD, and: PA-RISC systems, and I have been looking at the QuickSpecs7 for Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS systems.    For some bizarre 6 reason, they list *different* cabinet options, and the/ VMS Quickspecs doesn't list the 313877-B21 kit.   ? My question at this moment is, just exactly what is an M-series  cabinet?  : It would appear that there is considerable confusion at HP( concerning cabinets and rack mount kits.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:37:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? , Message-ID: <44AD4A56.39FD2215@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:K > He specifically laments Java's hiding of the pointer concept.  The modern H > methodologies all play largly into the concept of "hiding".  You don'tH > reveal or allow access to the programmer for anything beyond what theyI > need to get the job done.  You may not like it, but it is the currently G > accepted paradigm and Java isn't the only language to do it.  Most OO ! > lives within the same paradigm.     B The problem is that it generates programmers who don't know what aG computer really is. When the time comes to debug problems , someone who E does not understand computers  is is far less able to debug problems.   E Example: When PSION released its (last) very proprietary PDA, some of G the newbie PSION employees were bragging about it being all C++ and OO. F When asked about proprietary file formats so that applications outsideE the PSION could be developped to access those documents, the response B was "there are no files and no file formats on the unit, it is allH "stream store".  (Even though once could use YMODEM to transfer files to a different platform).  ? When asked about using any language to call the on board system B services, the resonse from one of the afficionados was that it wasG impossible because the machine was all Object Oriented and you couldn't D possibly run non C++ code on that chip. (ARM architecture). This guyH clearly did not understand the concept of a compiler, linker and machine> code or the fact that C++ generated "Normal" machine code withE subroutines and entry points and argumentsas well as data structures.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 18:05:36 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? , Message-ID: <4h51ngF1ocrqhU2@individual.net>  = In article <44ad4797$0$67256$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, . 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:@ >> In article <44ad1a6a$0$60785$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>,1 >> 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  >>> geletine wrote: K >>>> I am sure some universities somewhere in the world contain vms as part 7 >>>> of a operating systems module in computer science. L >>>> It reminds me of the growing perception that java is dwarving out other" >>>> languages, which is not true.A >>>> I thought this article might be of interest in that respect. G >>>> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html  >>> J >>> I think Joel makes one major flaw:  He thinks all CS students must be M >>> excellent at handling complex algorithms and designing complex programs.   >>  J >> Actually, it's a lot easier to sum up his major error as it is the sameH >> as many others.  he seems to think it is the sole purpose of collegesG >> to create programmers for the job market.  He is wrong.  He, like so H >> many others, has no understanding of what education at the university >> level is all about. > I > Well, Universities should skills that last beyond the first few years,  I > but universities do get their money for giving students qualifications  B > that can be used on the job marked for the rest of the students  > professional carrier.   G Which is what most real Universities teach.  Concepts. Not programming. F Not the language du jour.  The language used is chosen because of it'sG ability to support the paradigm that needs to be taught in a particular H course.  Our Students use Java, PHP, Perl, COBOL, C, C++, Lisp, Prolog, H and sometimes even more obscure languages like Occam and even Blue.  :-)I In tha past the list has included Pascal, Ada, VAX Basic and even Fortran D (Harlan Herrick used to teach here, actually!!)  Java is used as theE beginning language today because it facilitates teaching the concepts D that need to be taught (everyone does remember that was the originalH purpose for which Wirth wrote Pascal) and there are good texts available to support it.   > J > But universities are not geared towards teaching specific products, and 5 > I think it would end a major failure if they tried.  > M >>>   Guess what?  Most programs do things like ERP, CRM, tax, payroll, etc.  C >>>   The best guys for designing such software might not be great  L >>> programmers in Joel's mind.  It might be people great at designing user L >>> interfaces or databases.  I fact such tasks might get great programmers G >>> sick greener pastures.  Thus, Joel may need great programmers, but  > >>> others might be better of hiring people with other skills. >>> G >>> (The experience from fly by wire plans like Airbuses is that it is  L >>> difficult to design the user interface in such a way that pilots do not L >>> make errors.  A couple of Airbuses have crashed because of that.  To my G >>> knowledge no Airbus has crashed because the software did not do as   >>> expected.) >>  B >> Not a particularly good example as it is usually easier to justA >> blame the dead pilot than to actually try to find out if there ! >> is a flaw in the plane itself.  > B > If an airplane crashes because the pilots user interface if too K > difficult to use, then the producer of the plane is to blame.  It is the  A > producer that could enhance the user interface, not the pilots.  > H > This is just like student should be taught that is not the users that  > are stupid.      Sometime it is.   H >             It is the user interface that is not good enough.  And it H > is not the professors that are stupid when they do not understand the    Sometimes, it is.   G > papers written by the students.  It is the students that should have  & > been writing easier readable papers.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 18:07:09 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? , Message-ID: <4h51qdF1ocrqhU3@individual.net>  , In article <44AD44BF.2A0C77E9@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:D >> I can't tell you what caused it, but I can tell you what is wrong >> with it.  >  >> However, his page contains: >>   &amp;rdquo; > K > I suspect that according to Microsoft standards, this is perfectly valid.   F Maybe, but not according to HTML.  Come to think of it, apparently not1 MS either as IE doesn't deal with it either.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:58:55 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? = Message-ID: <44ad4f44$0$60785$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Karsten Nyblad wrote: E >> (The experience from fly by wire plans like Airbuses is that it is J >> difficult to design the user interface in such a way that pilots do notJ >> make errors.  A couple of Airbuses have crashed because of that.  To myE >> knowledge no Airbus has crashed because the software did not do as 
 >> expected.)  > G > While no A320 has crashed because of software errors, there have been J > many near misses because of software glitches in the first 2 years.  OneG > of them was some problem between cabin temperatur controls and engine F > thrust controls.  Cabin stff were instructed NOT to change the cabinI > temperature setting while in flight until that big was found and fixed.  >  > I > The most famous crash at Habsheim was essentially human error. The test F > pilots brough the plane in at too low a speed for them to be able toJ > speed up in time to climb above the trees. The aircraft systems acted asH > designed: prevent a stall. Pilots complained that the aircraft did notJ > respond when they pulled the nose up. The plane could not start to climbF > at such a low speed without stalling and falling flat on its belly.  > D > There was one early problem and that was training. Pilots were notJ > trained properly to be endoctrinated onto the new flight philosophy. AndG > that caused some problems with human/computer interaction with pilots H > fighting the computer instead of using it. Once training was adjusted,F > the aircraft became quite reliable and far less complaints about it.  D And then there is the case were Russian a pilot let his son fly the F plane.  Actually he let the auto pilot fly it, but he did not know it I would become partly disabled when the steering wheel was turned for more  G than 30 seconds.  The pilots did not know that the auto pilot could be  I partly disabled.  The pilots also did not know that an Airbus will bring  + it self out of a spin if the pilot lets it.   D I also think an Airbus crashed because a pilot entered how fast the % plane was to decent in  a wrong unit.   G > VMS itself is tried and tested and a well known entity. But there are Q > newer parts to VMS such as the TCPIP stack which are not as well tested/proven.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 17:03:15 -0700  From: davidc@montagar.com / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? B Message-ID: <1152230595.348809.235440@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   geletine wrote:  > davidc@montagar.com wrote:  A > Have you not heard of group indentifiers in unix type operating H > systems? There is more than root and non-root, its possible to have as > many as you wish.   D ;-)  I may be wrong, but it's quite possible that I've tinkered withF Unix before you were born.  Yes there are some file system things, butC I'm talking O/S.  Many system calls have the "caller must be root". 1 Not many have a "caller must be group 10" notice.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2006 17:24:55 -0700  From: davidc@montagar.com / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? C Message-ID: <1152231895.454657.276510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > davidc@montagar.com wrote:F > > 1)  OpenVMS passes information through verifiable structures, like > > descriptors. > J > That is not the case all the time anymore, not since they ported so muchA > unix software to VMS, including TCPIP Services which by today's 0 > standards, is a core operating system feature.  E While various utilities, and programs may use null-terminate strings, F etc for TCPIP, you still have to go through $QIO to get to the kernel.D The biggest issue is still with DOS attacks, but not really exploits! (like IIS buffer overflows, etc).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:05:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? , Message-ID: <44ADC17F.C7BAD63F@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:N > And what does that have to do with what is taught in University CS programs?7 > Where did he get his degree?  Does he even have one?    A I do not know the answer to either question. But he was an active E particpant in the PSION newsgroups and I was totally sysprused of his F convictions that it was absolutely impossible for a non C++ program toG call operating system services designed to be called from C++, and even * mentioned that the chip only supported OO.     > It took less than a M > few seconds to find out that writing and installing additional applications I > on a PSION is trivial, even considering the obscure OS they use (EPOC).   B Beware, there are 2 EPOCS. The original EPOC was 16 bit running onE 80186. Its system services were, in many instanced, object oriented,m C but designed to be called from C or its basic-like OPL.  The second G generation EPOC (EPOC32 whcih morphed into Symbian OS) was designed for M C++ only  running on ARM in 32 bit.  Only a C++ development kit was produced.   E While Symbian has loosened the noose on the proprietary nature of the G OS, it was too late since PSION was already dead, out of the PDA market  by that time.   @ In terms of telling me that the EPOC32 didn't have files or fileG formats, it was a PSION employee working in tech support.  Years later, F he did appear on the newsgroup and almost apologized and admitted that+ in fact there were files and file formats.      F What this shows is that some people in certain positions of importanceB have no clue on how a computer works and will give customers wrongB information because they simply don't understand how machines workG having only studied languages that totally insulate the programmer from  the OS and machine.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.374 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ăL0lUI*"/)!?sd*?^
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u6Y(
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.pRd[.78宁P;uWAtL
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