1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 11 Jul 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 383       Contents:P Re: A consistent, even playing field - That's all I ask! (Was: Re: No OpenVMS RTP Re: A consistent, even playing field - That's all I ask! (Was: Re: No OpenVMS RT Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  RE: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day & Re: An entirely Digital OSF/1 question& Re: An entirely Digital OSF/1 questionA Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an  Application? < Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application?@ Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application?@ Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application?@ Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application?@ Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application?+ Re: DEC 2000 AXP fails system power up test  Re: Floating point questions Re: Floating point questions Re: Floating point questions Re: Floating point questions Re: Floating point questions6 Re: No Oracle Standard Edition planned for VMS on IA64 Oracle10g on IA64 8.2-1  Re: Oracle10g on IA64 8.2-1  Re: Oracle10g on IA64 8.2-1 7 Re: Question for Anyone using SSSU to script EVA stuff.  scsi to ide brdige on a VAX  Re: scsi to ide brdige on a VAX  Re: scsi to ide brdige on a VAX & Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?1 Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver! 1 Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver! 1 Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver! 1 Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver! 1 Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver! 1 Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:25:49 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: A consistent, even playing field - That's all I ask! (Was: Re: No OpenVMS RT 0 Message-ID: <xFNsg.310$686.160@news.cpqcorp.net>   Richard Maher wrote:   >  > For example: > 	 > $GETUAI  >  >  > REQUIRED ACCESS MODE > # > Cannot be called from Kernel Mode  >   G $GETUAI/$SETUAI uses RMS to access SYSUAF.DAT.  That is the reason for  4 the restriction about calling them from kernel mode.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:03:24 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: A consistent, even playing field - That's all I ask! (Was: Re: No OpenVMS RT 0 Message-ID: <05Psg.316$na6.269@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Reagan wrote: > Richard Maher wrote: >  >> >> For example:  >>
 >> $GETUAI >> >> >> REQUIRED ACCESS MODE  >>$ >> Cannot be called from Kernel Mode >> > I > $GETUAI/$SETUAI uses RMS to access SYSUAF.DAT.  That is the reason for  6 > the restriction about calling them from kernel mode.  I    I believe I indicated "not supported from inner mode", in conjunction  I with "all RTL routines."  What individual programmers might choose to do  D here and whether or not the particular programmers involved require D formal support is, however, obviously entirely up to the programmer.  ?    I've not seen and not encountered any OpenVMS documentation  G indicating inner-mode calls to the user-mode RTLs are supported, and I  E do recall seeing some degree of consternation around out-bound calls  G from UWSS images earlier in the various threads -- this outbound-calls  D mechanism was implemented to specifically prevent casual calls into C OpenVMS RTLs and such.  (As I've stated -- since April, within the  H context of this thread -- there ARE limitations here.)  If such support G documentation existed, I'm certain that it would have brought it to my  H attention already, too -- this is far from the first similar discussion  I've been in over the years.  I    Put another way, Mr Maher seeks an OpenVMS enhancement here -- access  G to RTL services from inner-mode code -- which is certainly an entirely  F reasonable request, and thus fodder for a formal enhancement request, A and (if accepted by the business management folks) the requisite  E engineering efforts within the various RTLs that would be needed and  H scheduled.  Work to ensure that this operates correctly would be needed.  C    If received, I will certainly forward a formal request for this  G enhancement along to OpenVMS business management, or Mr Maher can pass  I this request in via the support center or via whatever representative(s)  H of HP he would prefer to deal with.  Details on the particular services E of interest would be useful -- obviously we're discussing one of the  F groups of services I've also had similar troubles with from one of my I own UWSS images, the LOADSS family of OpenVMS security-related services.  H   There may well be other services needed, and these should be included  as well.  F    Again, I might add that this enhancement is an entirely reasonable G request, both around better documentation, and around adding mode-safe  D calls.  As part of addressing this documentation request, I'll pass H along a release note for inclusion into V8.3, specifically stating that E no inner-mode calls into user-mode RTLs are supported -- it's always  F troubled me that there is comparatively little inner-mode programming B documentation available for OpenVMS, beyond the driver manual and H related materials.  The release note -- if it makes it in in time to be G reviewed and included in the V8.3 release notes -- will (re)confirm my  E statements (above), but it obviously and unfortunately won't address  $ requirements to call these services.  B    I'd also certainly personally prefer to see a way to call into D various of these RTL and LOADSS routines (safely and securely) from E within an inner-mode routine (probably from exec-mode non-AST at the  E highest), but I do expect that the RTL security review required here  G will be non-trivial -- and ignoring any remediation and the associated  I testing that might be required as a result of concerns identified during  G the security review.  Hence the formal request -- that is how projects  B get into the review cycle, and (potentially) onto the engineering D schedule.  (Again, I can pass a formal request along to the OpenVMS G security business manager, as I expect he would be one of the managers  0 inevitably involved in this project discussion.)   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2006 11:22:00 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <4hhfuoF1r28k0U1@individual.net>  ? In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-W7L6joy8WjGC@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 5 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:  > H > The only trouble with the theory, and it may well be correct, is that D > the same situation, a dearth of applications, was always going to  > apply to Itaniuim too.  C But that is pretty much what people have been saying all along.  If D the same logic that killed Alpha were applied to the Itanium, it tooC would be dead meat.  So, how comfortable does that make people feel  betting their business on it?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 04:43:58 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk" Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayC Message-ID: <1152618238.250484.162260@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   1 Not very, but it's the only game in town I guess?    Steve    Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-W7L6joy8WjGC@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 7 > 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:  > > I > > The only trouble with the theory, and it may well be correct, is that E > > the same situation, a dearth of applications, was always going to  > > apply to Itaniuim too. > E > But that is pretty much what people have been saying all along.  If F > the same logic that killed Alpha were applied to the Itanium, it tooE > would be dead meat.  So, how comfortable does that make people feel  > betting their business on it?  >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:05:36 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day+ Message-ID: <e90i8f$6ll$1@naig.caltech.edu>    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:B >> In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-W7L6joy8WjGC@dave2_os2.home.ours>,8 >> 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:I >>> The only trouble with the theory, and it may well be correct, is that E >>> the same situation, a dearth of applications, was always going to  >>> apply to Itaniuim too.F >> But that is pretty much what people have been saying all along.  IfG >> the same logic that killed Alpha were applied to the Itanium, it too F >> would be dead meat.  So, how comfortable does that make people feel  >> betting their business on it? >>3 > Not very, but it's the only game in town I guess?   > It's also possible to run VMS on the emulator on x86 hardware.  > In this day of multicore Opterons, Conroes, and the like there= really is no compelling reason for any _customer_ not already H stuck with an HP OS to move to Itanium.  At best there might be a minor H performance advantage in some specific instances, but it would come at aA tremendous cost in terms of development, hardware, and so forth.  = Conversely there is a compelling reason to move off of pretty B much all of the HP OS's since they are all slowly sinking into theA sunset while tied to the Itanic.  Migrating to commodity hardware ? and software offers a better, cheaper future.  In fact it would 5 be relatively easy for AMD or Intel to completely rip C the legs off of Itanium (or maybe that should be rip the stubs off) : by selling a "premium server chip" with 4 or 8 Mb of cacheA on the die.  Such a chip might run thousands of dollars more than > the normal variant, but it would still be "standard" enough to? be used in commodity systems.  Also it would be much cheaper to D bulk up an existing design with a huge cache than to continue paying for Itanium development.   Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2006 16:34:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <4hi280F1rni27U1@individual.net>  + In article <e90i8f$6ll$1@naig.caltech.edu>, * 	David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  >>   >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: C >>> In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-W7L6joy8WjGC@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 9 >>> 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes: J >>>> The only trouble with the theory, and it may well be correct, is thatF >>>> the same situation, a dearth of applications, was always going to >>>> apply to Itaniuim too. G >>> But that is pretty much what people have been saying all along.  If H >>> the same logic that killed Alpha were applied to the Itanium, it tooG >>> would be dead meat.  So, how comfortable does that make people feel ! >>> betting their business on it?  >>> 4 >> Not very, but it's the only game in town I guess? > @ > It's also possible to run VMS on the emulator on x86 hardware.  E Do you honestly think that once Itanium gets relegated to the crapper I that HP is going to continue to develop/support VMS for use on emulators? G I would love to see one example of commercial software whose commercial G life extended beyond the life of the hardware it was designed to run on  by using an emulator..   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:12:13 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> " Subject: RE: Alpha remembrance dayT Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684016B0DC8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: David Mathog [mailto:mathog@caltech.edu]=20  > Sent: July 11, 2006 12:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day >=20 > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  > >=20 > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > >> In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-W7L6joy8WjGC@dave2_os2.home.ours>,: > >> 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:= > >>> The only trouble with the theory, and it may well be=20  > correct, is thatG > >>> the same situation, a dearth of applications, was always going to  > >>> apply to Itaniuim too.H > >> But that is pretty much what people have been saying all along.  If< > >> the same logic that killed Alpha were applied to the=20 > Itanium, it too H > >> would be dead meat.  So, how comfortable does that make people feel" > >> betting their business on it? > >>5 > > Not very, but it's the only game in town I guess?  >=20@ > It's also possible to run VMS on the emulator on x86 hardware. >=20  B Assuming one pays the license fees for emulator software. Just forD kicks, ask someone what the license costs are for a typical VAX 66002 quad cpu server. Be seated down when you ask this.  @ > In this day of multicore Opterons, Conroes, and the like there? > really is no compelling reason for any _customer_ not already A > stuck with an HP OS to move to Itanium.  At best there might=20  > be a minor=20 = > performance advantage in some specific instances, but it=20  > would come at a E > tremendous cost in terms of development, hardware, and so forth.=20 ? > Conversely there is a compelling reason to move off of pretty D > much all of the HP OS's since they are all slowly sinking into theC > sunset while tied to the Itanic.  Migrating to commodity hardware A > and software offers a better, cheaper future.  In fact it would 7 > be relatively easy for AMD or Intel to completely rip E > the legs off of Itanium (or maybe that should be rip the stubs off) < > by selling a "premium server chip" with 4 or 8 Mb of cacheC > on the die.  Such a chip might run thousands of dollars more than @ > the normal variant, but it would still be "standard" enough toA > be used in commodity systems.  Also it would be much cheaper to F > bulk up an existing design with a huge cache than to continue paying > for Itanium development. >=20
 > Regards, >=20 > David Mathog >=20  	 David,=20   G The HW platform is one of the smallest parts of an IT budget. IT staff, @ training, business logic compatibility, new functionality QA andF regulatory testing, application licenses and support, DC costs etc areG the biggies. Changing the underlying HW is one thing, but also changing 0 the OS as well is a 800lb gorilla to address.=20  ? And by commodity hardware and software, do you mean adopting OS G platforms that *average* 7-20 security patches per month? How would you D price the cost associated with QA ing and testing all these securityA patches each month with all of the Customer apps running on these 
 platforms?=20   G Most Customers are concerned about their apps and as long as there is a G support plan in place for them, the HW costs are usually a much smaller  consideration.  C Case in point - why are Solaris Customers not migrating en masse to  Solaris on x86?    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:48:01 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>" Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day: Message-ID: <44B3AC11.3108.5A547E1@squayle.insight.rr.com>  / On 11 Jul 2006 at 16:34, Bill Gunshannon wrote: I > I would love to see one example of commercial software whose commercial I > life extended beyond the life of the hardware it was designed to run on  > by using an emulator..  @ Doing it every day with CHARON-VAX [Shameless Plug Alert(tm)].  C Ancient database software, ancient applications (MASS-11, for one).   G > Do you honestly think that once Itanium gets relegated to the crapper K > that HP is going to continue to develop/support VMS for use on emulators?   F No, but the software support path for Alpha is set through 2011 now.  - And there's a CHARON product line for that...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA < stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:46:58 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day) Message-ID: <op.tcjc0knqzgicya@hyrrokkin>   I On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:13 -0700, Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrot=  e:  D > Assuming one pays the license fees for emulator software. Just forF > kicks, ask someone what the license costs are for a typical VAX 66004 > quad cpu server. Be seated down when you ask this.   I was looking at that, on > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html% $5,995 for 1200 lmf units on VAX 66x0    However, looking at I http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm;jsessionid=3DaaasshC6M_ljo6sUvg0s?p=  age=3Dratbl   E it would appear that a 4 cpu system needs 2400 units, so would the  =    transfer feeH be twice?  Also I note that support is available only on HP hardware.  =  	 AFAIK, HP * does not offer a 4 cpu Opteron system, see/ http://www.kednos.com/vax/vax_6000_emulator.pdf    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:54:09 +1200 1 From: Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> / Subject: Re: An entirely Digital OSF/1 question # Message-ID: <44b391f9@clear.net.nz>    Michael Kraemer wrote:  4 > In article <44b2638c@clear.net.nz>, Tux Wonder-Dog& > <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> writes:G >> Is it possible to get hold of the OSF/1 source code, as released and I >> promptly dropped by the Open Software Foundation in June 1994?  And if I >> so, would HP consider making a donation of it - under similar terms to J >> the Caldera reorganization of the Santa Cruz Org.'s donation of ancientL >> Unix source code; eg, a BSD-style license - to The Unix Heritage Society? > 
 > funny idea, I > but this way one could possibly finish OSF/1 for Mips, i.e. DECstations  > :-)   = Well, if it helps anyone ... I'd be glad to be of service! ;)   
 Wesley Parish  --  O "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was U lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I C get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she D fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.G Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:22:02 +0000 (UTC) ( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer)/ Subject: Re: An entirely Digital OSF/1 question 4 Message-ID: <e9055a$u1$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>  O In article <44b391f9@clear.net.nz>, Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>  writes: ? > Well, if it helps anyone ... I'd be glad to be of service! ;)  > 7 well, there are bigger enthusiasts on this one than me,  you might check out:   http://www.xanthos.se/~joachim/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:33:37 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> J Subject: Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an  Application?A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060711073231.026ed928@raptor.psccos.com>   H You might consider looking into the new VAM (VMS Authentication Module) K from Process Software.  It has exactly this functionality in it, plus LDAP    and RSA SecurID lookups as well.  ( At 07:17 AM 7/11/2006, Craig Dedo wrote:
 >Everyone:B >     Is there any way to validate a username and password from anG >application?  We need to have this functionality in one of our OpenVMS  >applications. > B >     The application program has a variety of application-definedG >advanced privileges, e.g., granting certain kinds of exceptions to the G >usual business rules.  At the time such privileges need to be used, it H >is necessary to validate the username and password for several reasons. >  These include: 2 >     1.  Regulatory and audit trail requirements.A >     2.  Warning to privileged users that they are about to do a  >privileged task. H >     3.  Ordinary users often don't have the required privilege for the< >task and need a supervisor or specialist to do it for them. > H >     Right now, we are using a hack in order to get this functionality.B >After the user enters the required username and password, we do aG >directory search of the default directory using a fully-qualified node > >name with access control string.  The command is of the form:- >$ DIR NODE"USERNAME PASSWORD"::SYS$LOGIN:*.*  > I >     I was wondering of there was a more elegant method, e.g., some kind  >of OpenVMS API procedure. > B >     I have already done some homework.  I looked in the Run TimeE >Library (LIB$), System Services Library (SYS$), and Utility Routines G >LOGINOUT procedures (LGI$) without finding anything that provides what > >I need.  I am wondering what, if anything, I have overlooked. > E >     I such a capability available in one or more of the OpenVMS API   >procedures?  If so, which ones? >  >  >Craig T. Dedo, VMS Consultant% >Mayo Central Lab for Clinical Trials ' >Superior Drive Support Center 2-110-26  >3050 Superior Drive NW  >Rochester, MN   55905-1700  >Voice Phone:  (507) 538-4636  >Fax Phone:    (507) 284-0615  >Mobile Phone:  (414) 412-5869 >E-mail:  <Dedo.Craig@mayo.edu>    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 06:17:56 -0700( From: "Craig Dedo" <Dedo.Craig@mayo.edu>E Subject: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application? B Message-ID: <1152623876.244916.275180@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  	 Everyone: @     Is there any way to validate a username and password from anF application?  We need to have this functionality in one of our OpenVMS
 applications.   @     The application program has a variety of application-definedF advanced privileges, e.g., granting certain kinds of exceptions to theF usual business rules.  At the time such privileges need to be used, itG is necessary to validate the username and password for several reasons.   These include: 0     1.  Regulatory and audit trail requirements.?     2.  Warning to privileged users that they are about to do a  privileged task.F     3.  Ordinary users often don't have the required privilege for the; task and need a supervisor or specialist to do it for them.   F     Right now, we are using a hack in order to get this functionality.A After the user enters the required username and password, we do a F directory search of the default directory using a fully-qualified node= name with access control string.  The command is of the form: , $ DIR NODE"USERNAME PASSWORD"::SYS$LOGIN:*.*  G     I was wondering of there was a more elegant method, e.g., some kind  of OpenVMS API procedure.   @     I have already done some homework.  I looked in the Run TimeD Library (LIB$), System Services Library (SYS$), and Utility RoutinesF LOGINOUT procedures (LGI$) without finding anything that provides what= I need.  I am wondering what, if anything, I have overlooked.   C     I such a capability available in one or more of the OpenVMS API  procedures?  If so, which ones?      Craig T. Dedo, VMS Consultant $ Mayo Central Lab for Clinical Trials& Superior Drive Support Center 2-110-26 3050 Superior Drive NW Rochester, MN   55905-1700 Voice Phone:  (507) 538-4636 Fax Phone:    (507) 284-0615 Mobile Phone:  (414) 412-5869  E-mail:  <Dedo.Craig@mayo.edu>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:34:27 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> I Subject: Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application? 5 Message-ID: <slrneb7a73.rt3.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   j In article <1152623876.244916.275180@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Craig Dedo <Dedo.Craig@mayo.edu> wrote: > B >     The application program has a variety of application-definedH > advanced privileges, e.g., granting certain kinds of exceptions to theH > usual business rules.  At the time such privileges need to be used, itI > is necessary to validate the username and password for several reasons.    [...]   E >     I such a capability available in one or more of the OpenVMS API ! > procedures?  If so, which ones?   1 The best one would be the SYS$ACM system service.   D ACM = Authentication and Credential Management. It's a secure way of doing exactly what you seek.  H It's secure because it is a well-integrated way that hooks into the fullH suite of protections that VMS offers (e.g. audit capabilities, intrusion detection, lockout, etc).   , The basic limitations, from my recollection:   	1. Not available on VAX.   - 	2. Available on Alpha as of 7.3-1 and later.   C 	3. Available on I64 as of 8.1 and later. (I'm sure it was there in G 	   8.0, but 8.0 wasn't an official public release for production use.)    -Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:29:44 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>I Subject: Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application? 0 Message-ID: <sBOsg.315$Db6.208@news.cpqcorp.net>   Craig Dedo wrote:   B >     Is there any way to validate a username and password from anH > application?  We need to have this functionality in one of our OpenVMS > applications.  > B >     The application program has a variety of application-definedH > advanced privileges, e.g., granting certain kinds of exceptions to theH > usual business rules.  At the time such privileges need to be used, itI > is necessary to validate the username and password for several reasons.  >  These include: 2 >     1.  Regulatory and audit trail requirements.A >     2.  Warning to privileged users that they are about to do a  > privileged task.H >     3.  Ordinary users often don't have the required privilege for the= > task and need a supervisor or specialist to do it for them.   G    I don't generally look at the passwords, I use identifiers for this  G sort of control.  If you have the appropriate identifier(s) associated  C with your username, off you go.  This approach does also force the  G managerial user to log in through the standard LOGINOUT authentication  @ means, obviously, and through the standard auditing and evasion G mechanisms.  (Applications that ask for "real" system passwords and/or  G have access into the OpenVMS authorization database are obvious attack  G targets, and thus also tend to be the sorts of constructs that attract  ( the attention of the security auditors.)  I >     I was wondering of there was a more elegant method, e.g., some kind  > of OpenVMS API procedure.  > B >     I have already done some homework.  I looked in the Run TimeF > Library (LIB$), System Services Library (SYS$), and Utility RoutinesH > LOGINOUT procedures (LGI$) without finding anything that provides what? > I need.  I am wondering what, if anything, I have overlooked.   F    The central effort here, which the OpenVMS ACME mechanisms and the I sys$acm system service call targets, is that the user code involved also  E needs to deal with ancillary constructs such as evasion and auditing.   D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/5841/5841pro_091.html#c_acm_pc  H    The other (or a variant) approach is to ask for an application-level G password, and run the password through sys$hash_password and such, and  G to verify the resulting hash against a bogus (eg: disusered) username,  E or (better, as it doesn't require privileged access into the OpenVMS  H authorization database) against a hashed value stored in your database. H   This -- barring password re-use, which is unfortunately and obviously G quite common -- avoids an OpenVMS system exposure, and thus leaves you  G to maintain failure counts and evasion and such for your own code, but  H design or implementation failures or omissions here don't expose "real"  logins.   F    I might also look at a certificate verification against a USB key; C against a token.  (The usual approach here is to use a certificate  G and/or a rolling code sequence akin to a garage door remote, as well.)  I Whether or not you have access to USB storage on the particular hardware  E platform (client) is another discussion.  (This token-based approach  I makes some security auditors somewhat happier -- not sure I've ever seen  I a fully happy security auditor, however :-) -- as it requires possession  ) of both a password and a physical token.)   7    I've blogged on a couple of related topics, as well.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:05:09 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>I Subject: Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application? / Message-ID: <F6Psg.317$na6.25@news.cpqcorp.net>     VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  C > SYS$GETUAI (SALT and Algorithm and encrypted password value) and  C > SYS$HASH_PASSWORD toe generate the encrypted password value using B > the SALT and algorithm with the password text you query for when > wanting to validate the user.   E    And it's also a way to open up a password to a dictionary attack,  E particularly if you don't implement breakin evasion within the code.  C Whether or not that matters to you or to the code involved here is   another matter, obviously.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 09:34:19 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> I Subject: Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application? C Message-ID: <1152635659.210497.219880@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Craig,  @ I would use the ACM system services and the Process' Rights List5 identifiers, as has been mentioned by others earlier.   @ There are two separate issues here. First, there is the issue ofB verifying the user is who they claim to be. This requires passwordF verification or token verification of some form, and is best done with* a supported identity based system service.  A Identifying what a user is permitted to do is best done using the D rightslist, and the system services associated with it. Note that if@ you take security auditing seriously, attempts to gain access toD facilities to which you do not have permission is an auditable eventF and must be logged (the Audit log can contain this information, if youB are careful to let OpenVMS security block the attempt, rather than blocking it before it is made).   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:31:40 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk4 Subject: Re: DEC 2000 AXP fails system power up test) Message-ID: <e905nc$4jo$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>   P In article <EGCsg.4025$bd4.1087@trnddc01>, Tom Dockray <dockray@acm.org> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >  >[snip]  >>>>  C >>>> I think this means it is using a serial port because it hasn't @ >>>> detected the keyboard of the graphical console setup. Try a >>>> terminal... >>>>  	 >>>[snip]  >>> L >>>Well, the only VT device I have is a VT420 with an MMJ cable. Anyone know+ >>>where I can get an MMJ to DB9 converter?  >>>  >>  C >> Assuming you have a PC you could always use a serial cable and a J >> terminal emulator rather than needing to use a real VT terminal - thereB >> are a number of terminal emulators for windows freely available >>  < >> eg teraterm Pro 3.1.3 from http://www.ayera.com/teraterm/ >[snip]  > - >Wouldn't I need a null modem cable for that?  >    Yes as I said a serial cable.   
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 08:22:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: Floating point questions 3 Message-ID: <HdBqjqNW+gG$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <C5SdnUus-PEHfy_ZnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@comcast.com>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:  > Dave Froble wrote: > (snip) > I >> Uh... yeah... but, I've never seen a 'packed decimal' CPU.  Every one  I >> I've seen uses only ones and zeros.  Yeah, binary, that's what that's  
 >> called. > ; > Packed decimal is what IBM calls two BCD digits per byte.   @    Other vendors also support it.  Not necessarily based on BCD.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:42:44 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: Floating point questions ) Message-ID: <op.tci1pi0bzgicya@hyrrokkin>   1 On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:22:39 -0700, Bob Koehler   0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  < >> Packed decimal is what IBM calls two BCD digits per byte.A >   Other vendors also support it.  Not necessarily based on BCD.    Examples, please?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:05:45 -0400 . From: "Carl Friedberg" <frida.fried@gmail.com>% Subject: Re: Floating point questions I Message-ID: <890539d90607110905y144c0140kbcc400a7a0b20c4a@mail.gmail.com>   7 From deepest, darkest memory niches (failing cells too)   L The way that packed decimal interfaces to other formats is very interesting.  K Packed decimal is definitely of IBM origin, but was fully supported on VAXn H of the 780/750 era. Beginning with MicroVAX II, the concept of partiallyF supported architectures was introduced, and packed decimal was allowedL to be migrated off the hardware. Various flavors of VAXen had various levelsG of hardware support, but I believe that if you did Cobol benchmarks, in A many cases the results were dismal when Packed Decimal arithmetic 
 was at issue.   L A funny thing: IIRC to convert from integer to floating, IBM first convertedH from integer to Packed, and then from packed to floating, as it was much faster that way.  L For banking applications, there was no alternative to packed decimal becauseK there were no rounding errors (it wasn't floating point) and no issues with  handling pennies correctly...    Carl. On 7/11/06, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:1 > On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:22:39 -0700, Bob Koehler 2 > <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: > > > >> Packed decimal is what IBM calls two BCD digits per byte.C > >   Other vendors also support it.  Not necessarily based on BCD.  >  > Examples, please?  >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 12:19:14 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: Floating point questions 3 Message-ID: <wZsScks0DnrY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   z In article <890539d90607110905y144c0140kbcc400a7a0b20c4a@mail.gmail.com>, "Carl Friedberg" <frida.fried@gmail.com> writes: > N > For banking applications, there was no alternative to packed decimal becauseM > there were no rounding errors (it wasn't floating point) and no issues with  > handling pennies correctly...  >   H    There are other issues when handling large sums.  Consider a fractionF    of a penny over several million units.  You can get enough money to    fund an entire office staff.   B    Back in the days of mechanical calculators (which, oddly enoughD    worked in decimal), calculations to the 1/100 or 1/1000 cent were    done for this reason.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:42:52 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: Floating point questions ) Message-ID: <op.tcjctqrnzgicya@hyrrokkin>   2 On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:19:14 -0700, Bob Koehler  =  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:   > In article  =   I > <890539d90607110905y144c0140kbcc400a7a0b20c4a@mail.gmail.com>, "Carl  =   , > Friedberg" <frida.fried@gmail.com> writes: >>I >> For banking applications, there was no alternative to packed decimal =   =  
 >> becauseI >> there were no rounding errors (it wasn't floating point) and no issue=  s  =   >> with   >> handling pennies correctly... >> > I >    There are other issues when handling large sums.  Consider a fracti=  onI >    of a penny over several million units.  You can get enough money to=   ! >    fund an entire office staff.  > D >    Back in the days of mechanical calculators (which, oddly enoughF >    worked in decimal), calculations to the 1/100 or 1/1000 cent were >    done for this reason. > I International currency trading units are PIPs which are 5 decimals place=  s I of the underlying currency. I believe at least 17 digits are needed for =  the  integer portion.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:12:20 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)? Subject: Re: No Oracle Standard Edition planned for VMS on IA64 . Message-ID: <odPsg.35$ry1.113@news.oracle.com>  8 Oracle 10gR2 is being worked on for both Alpha and IA64,0 and should be released as soon as they're ready.  : Since this isn't an official support channel, that's about as much as can be said here.  7 If you need a more authoritative answer, you need to go 7 through an HP support channel: or go to the HP web site ; and ask the people responsible (via the feedback or support  links) for an update.    Bart.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 00:04:44 -0700 From: "Joerg" <spi@equicon.de>  Subject: Oracle10g on IA64 8.2-1C Message-ID: <1152601484.410383.162330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   	 Hi folks,   = I want test Oracle10g on IA64. How can I donwload a Oracle10g  installation kit?    regards, Joerg   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:06:09 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> $ Subject: Re: Oracle10g on IA64 8.2-1< Message-ID: <44b3776d$0$18484$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  * "Joerg" <spi@equicon.de> wrote in message = news:1152601484.410383.162330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...  > Hi folks,  > ? > I want test Oracle10g on IA64. How can I donwload a Oracle10g  > installation kit?  >  > regards, Joerg > M Surprisingly, I only see Oracle-DB releases (9 and 10) for OpenVMS on Alpha.  M This could be because Oracle-Rdb is much more popular on OpenVMS than Oracle  M Database. BTW, Oracle-Rdb is available in IA64 but I guess that doesn't help  L you. Maybe someone from Oracle can chime in with their company's intentions  for Oracle-DB on OpenVMS IA64.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 06:13:14 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> $ Subject: Re: Oracle10g on IA64 8.2-1B Message-ID: <1152623594.821343.293180@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Neil Rieck wrote: + > "Joerg" <spi@equicon.de> wrote in message ? > news:1152601484.410383.162330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... 
 > > Hi folks,  > > A > > I want test Oracle10g on IA64. How can I donwload a Oracle10g  > > installation kit?  > >  > > regards, Joerg > > N > Surprisingly, I only see Oracle-DB releases (9 and 10) for OpenVMS on Alpha.N > This could be because Oracle-Rdb is much more popular on OpenVMS than OracleN > Database. BTW, Oracle-Rdb is available in IA64 but I guess that doesn't helpM > you. Maybe someone from Oracle can chime in with their company's intentions   > for Oracle-DB on OpenVMS IA64. >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html; > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html   D Oracle 10gR2 is slated to be released for OpenVMS IA64 around AugustA 2006.  That's the current date listed by Oracle in their Metalink D support pages.  Typically they are between 30-60 days off so I wouldG expect it to be released somewhere in the August-October timeframe.  If F you are a big customer Oracle may let you have a beta test version but! the rest of us will have to wait.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:46:29 -0500 ' From: Dave Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> @ Subject: Re: Question for Anyone using SSSU to script EVA stuff.8 Message-ID: <gso7b2di7sj3ej0ss5114pvg4mrgnh1uli@4ax.com>   Hi Dave,  B On 10 Jul 2006 08:54:22 -0700, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com wrote:  C >     When I PRESENT a LUN to a Host,  using the Storage Management F >Appliance, I have two choices, either I can designate a specific LUN,1 >or I can allow the Appliance to designate a LUN.  > E >     When I use the SSSU Scripting utility, I dont seem to have that H >choice.   It seems like I MUST designate a specific LUN number for each >VDisk that is being presented.  > C >     This is a bit of a problem, because it means that I MUST know F >which LUNs are available for each host, in order to write the script.  A Yes, that is a major pain when trying to script things with SSSU.    > G >     My question to the EVA guys out there is "is there a syntax which G >will cause the EVA to ASSIGN a LUN Number?"  and hence remove the need $ >for me to specify it in the script.    D I did submit this to the Storage people as an enhancement request inF the v3.x timeframe.  I've never heard anything since and we're on v5.0
 of SSSU.    : When I made the request, they didn't seem very interested.   >  >thanks  >  >Dave.     Dave Harrold  N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                                 E-Mail: David.Harrold@aurora.orgN Lead Software Systems Engineer                 Phone:           (414) 647-6204N                                                Pager:           (414) 941-4634N Aurora Health Care                               Fax:           (414) 647-4999 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 08:47:02 -0700 From: tomarsin2015@comcast.net$ Subject: scsi to ide brdige on a VAXC Message-ID: <1152632822.237812.200580@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Hello G Has anyone tried a scsi to ide bridge on a VAX (4000-10X or 4000-90) or 	 even on a C Alpha? Will VMS 7.3 (VAX) and 8.2 (Alpha) had any problems with the  bridge. @ According to the docs the bridge  will work with "any os" (which usually means WinXX/Unix) G I'm wondering how would the bridge work with a CMD 22X qbus controller.  Would > MSCP had problems with the ide drives??  Thanks for any input.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 09:50:54 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>( Subject: Re: scsi to ide brdige on a VAXC Message-ID: <1152636654.155812.318490@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  > Hello I > Has anyone tried a scsi to ide bridge on a VAX (4000-10X or 4000-90) or  > even on a E > Alpha? Will VMS 7.3 (VAX) and 8.2 (Alpha) had any problems with the 	 > bridge. B > According to the docs the bridge  will work with "any os" (which > usually means WinXX/Unix) I > I'm wondering how would the bridge work with a CMD 22X qbus controller.  > Would @ > MSCP had problems with the ide drives??  Thanks for any input.  C Can't help you on the VAX, but I use an Acard IDE to UltraSCSI Wide B adapter on my PWS600au and it works just fine.  Drive is a SeagateF 160MB unit.  There is always one error reported when the system boots,= but after that it has run completely clean for several years.   E Started using this setup with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1, currently running F V7.3-2.  The drive is NOT the system disk.  It is slightly slower thanC the 7200RPM 4 and 9GB drives that make up the reset of the system's  storage.  B The Yamaha CRW-F1 CDR/CDRW drive has a proprietary Yamaha SCSI-IDE< bridge board in it, and also works just fine on this system.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 09:35:13 -0700' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> ( Subject: Re: scsi to ide brdige on a VAXC Message-ID: <1152635713.565659.234550@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  > Hello I > Has anyone tried a scsi to ide bridge on a VAX (4000-10X or 4000-90) or  > even on a E > Alpha? Will VMS 7.3 (VAX) and 8.2 (Alpha) had any problems with the 	 > bridge. B > According to the docs the bridge  will work with "any os" (which > usually means WinXX/Unix) I > I'm wondering how would the bridge work with a CMD 22X qbus controller.  > Would @ > MSCP had problems with the ide drives??  Thanks for any input.  G If it helps any, myself and a friend are working on an MSCP/ATA adapter D for QBus. Vax9000 has already completed a hobbyist MSCP/SCSI adapterE (http://mscpscsi.com/) but of course that's not what you're after :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2006 11:28:24 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? , Message-ID: <4hhganF1r28k0U2@individual.net>  , In article <44B3014B.B9FEDDFD@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:E >>    That gets to the point.  He requested thrust at what would have K >>    otherwise been an appropriate point, but the FBW setup added delay to A >>    the thrust increase, causing a delay in the speed increase.  > J > Do you have any evidence that the FBW system delayed increasing thurst ?8 >  There is no reasonf or it to delay increasing thurst. > D > All the stuff I had read was that the pilot put the aircraft in anJ > unrecoverable situation without enough energy to start climbing and thatI > the pilot did not increase thrust soon enough before the need to climb.   F I am not an aviation expert and should probably just stay out of this,F but as a point of reference, I have seen at least on story that statedI the initial findings of the NTSB into the December Chicago incident found H that there was a measurable delay from when the pilot requested that theE thrust reversers deploy and when they actually deployed.  Sounds like  software to me!!   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 04:28:02 -0700( From: "geletine" <adaviscg1@hotmail.com>/ Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? C Message-ID: <1152617282.804356.271290@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote:F > Now that's just horseshit!  Microsoft could give a damn about the HWI > vendors, and has been smart enough not to compete with them.  Microsoft D > keeps adding features hoping to sell a new version of the OS everyH > couple of years.  To do so, they must provide reasons to upgrade, thus > the features/bloat.  > D I never said Microsoft are competing with hardware vendors, althoughF there is a mention of a ipod killer. I agree with your other points :)  J > Look, no matter what anyone wants to promote, Microsoft Office rules theH > office automation market.  Heck, even as the US Justice Department wasH > suing Microsoft for being a monopoly, the US Government was specifyingL > MS Office as the 'official' tools for office automation.  Figure that one. >   G It might have the highest presence in offices, but do not underestamate F open office for instance, it was a  fork of staroffice, which is stillG selling, i don;t know how well. The next Ms office release will support C as a plugin open document which is what open office can use without D having to result in reverse enginneing .Doc documents, i am not 100%F sure why they have taken this move, i think it might be in relation to goverment pressure.   J > On a scale of 1 - 100, guess the market penetration of Microsoft Office,J > and guess the market penetration of any or all other products.  My guessF > is it's in the 90s for MS Office, and in single digits for all else. > ) the figure will change as time continues.     H > Well, most commercial VMS sites won't go without support.  The supportC > is an ongoing money maker, vs a one-time amount for selling an OS 9 > license.  I'd agree that support is where the money is.  we both agree :)  G > I'd think that support should be the prime target, but, for those who F > won't purchase support, why should HP give away free something which > costs them money?  > E In any product they are some who don't want the support for financial  reasons or other. ? I would guess the majority do want it, novell give one of their A versions of suse away for free, and alot of people do not pay for  support.  G > Keep in mind that VMS has always been a high margin product, and that @ > doesn't bother those who need it.  Doesn't bother them at all. > B thats a fair statement, and the highest reason i believe vms won't become open source.      > F > But profits are being made in support.  At least until HP completelyI > guts the support organization.  With the exception of IBM, I'm guessing H > nothing out there comes close to what VMS produces in support revenue.% > I really don't know, just guessing. D There is a lot of support in open source, how else would open sourceF programmers to give an example put food on the table if they just gave
 code away.  I > That's part of the problem.  Because software is not seen as a tangible 3 > property by many, they don't assign it any value.  >   I cannot see that changing ever.    H > But, is anyone free to produce product and sell it without Sun gettingB > some type of cut?  It's most CPU designers dream to get multiple > producers of their product.  > A Thats a very good question, unfortunately i cannot answer at this E moment, producing chips in a very expensive buisness, so untill there @ is a story about a clone, i can only presume they are asking the6 community for advice or improvements on future models.    G > That's an experiment they were forced into, and how well it will work  > out is not yet known. E How were they forced into it? if you mean to compete with linux, then 4 vms as far as i know has nothing to compete against.E I beleive if unix was never created, there would exist a clone of vms = thats as good a clone as linux is to unix. Its just alot more F developers enjoy hacking(the creative verb) a unix type system opposed to a vms type.       thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 08:01:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? 3 Message-ID: <LcXqt5E9hgOY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <1152568977.756411.238210@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "geletine" <adaviscg1@hotmail.com> writes: > G > Microsoft continue to make an ever increasing bloated Os in order for B > hardware vendors to make money , of course there are open sourseI > alternatives that run on older computers, apart from games and the ever G > increasing multimedia market for faster computers. So the issue still  > continues.  D    Microsoft makes that OS sothat Microsoft can make money.  Profits0    for hardware vendors are a small side effect.   > I >> VMS exists today to provide some unique capabilities.  Possibly not as K >> unique as some believe, but still it has it's values.  As a product, VMS # >> (should) produce profits for HP.  >>H > Hp surely can profit from support and selling more hardware and giving > away vms.   G    Anyone who hasn't learned that the profits are in software is hiding     under a very large rock.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:37:41 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? ) Message-ID: <op.tci1g3sxzgicya@hyrrokkin>   2 On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:01:39 -0700, Bob Koehler  =  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  F >    Microsoft makes that OS sothat Microsoft can make money.  Profits2 >    for hardware vendors are a small side effect.  I In some ways, the HW vendors are to Microsoft as the trucking industry i=  s I to the producers  thus making the truckers compete in a lower margin mar=  ket I and to get Microsoft's business thay also have to help sell the goods.  =   =   ThisI simile can be extended to comparing fuel efficiency to price/perfomance.=    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 04:08:29 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>: Subject: Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!C Message-ID: <1152616109.764683.159260@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   = It is a VAX-7820 so I would expect it would out perform a pc.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 05:47:47 -0700- From: "Wilm Boerhout" <w5.boerhout@planet.nl> : Subject: Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!B Message-ID: <1152622067.884651.160050@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   bob@instantwhip.com schreef:  ; > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v8/recipes.html   < "outperfoms" as in "cheaper per page served"? I think not...   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 08:20:53 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!3 Message-ID: <2n0Zp3e4h783@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <1152556759.561109.57590@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:; > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v8/recipes.html  >   C    Not every hobbyist has a 7000 Model 820 at home (I assume that's     what was meant by a 7820).   ?    I forget, how many CPUs in an 820?  How many VUPS in a 7000?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 06:36:00 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> : Subject: Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!B Message-ID: <1152624960.117736.11700@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:` > In article <1152556759.561109.57590@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:= > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v8/recipes.html  > >  > E >    Not every hobbyist has a 7000 Model 820 at home (I assume that's  >    what was meant by a 7820).  > A >    I forget, how many CPUs in an 820?  How many VUPS in a 7000?   7 7820 = 2 CPUs = 753 (where an 11/780 is listed as an 8)  7830 = 3 CPUs = 1107 .  .  .  7860 = 6 CPUs = 1795   Performance listed at G http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_by_name_dec.html D  but no units are given other than an 11/780 is 8 and an 11/750 is 5   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2006 08:49:08 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk: Subject: Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!C Message-ID: <1152632948.024147.137280@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   G I'd be surprised if the units were VUPs since (IIRC), either the 11/750  or the 11/780 was 1 VUP.D There's also a large contingent of Alpha-based systems in that "VAX"
 list.  Hum...    Steve    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  > Bob Koehler wrote:b > > In article <1152556759.561109.57590@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:? > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v8/recipes.html  > > >  > > G > >    Not every hobbyist has a 7000 Model 820 at home (I assume that's ! > >    what was meant by a 7820).  > > C > >    I forget, how many CPUs in an 820?  How many VUPS in a 7000?  > 9 > 7820 = 2 CPUs = 753 (where an 11/780 is listed as an 8)  > 7830 = 3 CPUs = 1107 > .  > .  > .  > 7860 = 6 CPUs = 1795 >  > Performance listed at I > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_by_name_dec.html F >  but no units are given other than an 11/780 is 8 and an 11/750 is 5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:28:30 +0200 3 From: Wilm Boerhout <w5OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl> : Subject: Re: vax webserver outperforms linux/pc webserver!4 Message-ID: <44b3d1ae$0$858$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>  0 on 11-7-2006 17:49 etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote...I > I'd be surprised if the units were VUPs since (IIRC), either the 11/750  > or the 11/780 was 1 VUP.F > There's also a large contingent of Alpha-based systems in that "VAX" > list.  Hum...   F VAX 7000 810-860 (Laser/Krypton+ CPUs) rate at 60 VUPs per processor, G where 1 Vax Unit of Processing is the speed of the original VAX 11/780.    7820 is 120 VUPs.    /Wilm    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.383 ************************