1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Jul 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 387       Contents:P Re: A consistent, even playing field - That's all I ask! (Was: Re: No OpenVMS RTA A rose by any other name would still smell like a shareable image  Re: Alpha remembrance day @ Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application?P Re: EXECSTACKPAGES? (Was  Re: Oops! (Was: Re: Stacks, Static, Item Lists, Modes P Re: EXECSTACKPAGES? (Was  Re: Oops! (Was: Re: Stacks, Static, Item Lists, Modes P Re: EXECSTACKPAGES? (Was  Re: Oops! (Was: Re: Stacks, Static, Item Lists, Modes  Re: Hoffman Labs Re: Hoffman Labs Re: Hoffman Labs6 How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands: Re: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands: Re: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands: Re: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands1 Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips 5 Re: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips 5 Re: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips 5 Re: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips  Re: OT: Ken Lay dead& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?& Re: The possibility of vms opening up?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:23:23 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: A consistent, even playing field - That's all I ask! (Was: Re: No OpenVMS RT 0 Message-ID: <vHstg.440$3f7.248@news.cpqcorp.net>   Richard Maher wrote:   > N > PS. Why do you not have "COBOL Project Leader" in your signature? *Never* be$ > ashamed of where you come from :-) >    Fixed.  See below.    G As for documenting what routines can be called from inner-mode, etc. I  F agree with you in principle.  Part of the problem is that RTL writers H don't always think of the scenario of non-user-mode callers until after E the fact.  Going back and trying to figure out which ones really are  H safe, which ones are not safe, and which ones should be made safe, is a E non-trivial task.  If Steve or I could do it in 15 minutes, we would.      --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:43:50 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> J Subject: A rose by any other name would still smell like a shareable image1 Message-ID: <e95f21$cjd$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   	 Hi Steve,   H > Whoa..  First of all, thread-safe and AST-reentrant is not the same as > inner-mode safe   
 Well done.  2 > Most of the RTL routines were not supported when > called from inner modes,  9 Oh really; why not? (Like your use of past tense here :-)   0 > but the LIB$xxx_VM routines were an exception.I >  As documented, the memory returned is all owned by user mode no matter  > what the mode of the caller.  I There's this sicko stalker that's been following me around for months who 1 may wish to take issue with your attestation. :-)   : > Second, $GETUAI is a system service, not an RTL routine.  K Normally, because $getuai is a UWSS that lives in sys$share:secureshrp.exe, H I personally, choose to call it a RTL routine. Having said that, on thisG particular occasion I was using the Universal Hoffman Gallons metric fo I classification ie: "What I am referring to here as an RTL is anything not  built into the kernel.".  - > RTL routines are those with names beginning I > with prefixes such as LIB$, STR$, etc. that are documented in "Run-Time  > Library" manuals.   I If you say so. (I starting to think that the next project VMS engineering  should undertake is a Glossary)   H > I took a look at the current VMS documentation and couldn't find whereD > it made a statement about the thread-safety of the RTL routines. I" > assume it is in there somewhere.  < You and me both. (Maybe it's like assuming you're insurred?)  J > > Apparently these attestations are not worth the paper they are written on > > :-(  > E > Yes they were.  But you're asking for something entirely different.   H What I was asking for *is* different; the *quoted* attestations were the same!    Cheers Richard Maher  8 "Steve Lionel" <steve.lionel@intel.com> wrote in message< news:1152538537.753676.176270@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Richard Maher wrote: > $ > > > I personally expended a lot ofJ > > > effort in finding and removing reentrancy barriers in the RTL - this# > > > was a task we took seriously.  > > L > > PLEASE, Please! come back and find and remove the inner-mode barriers in the K > > RTL. Document which are and which aren't caller's-mode safe. (Whichever  isL > > the smallest) If it is a case that you can only ever call out to another5 > > /PROTECTed RTL then please come and document why.  > >  > > For example: > >  > > $GETUAI  > H > Whoa..  First of all, thread-safe and AST-reentrant is not the same asC > inner-mode safe. Most of the RTL routines were not supported when I > called from inner modes, but the LIB$xxx_VM routines were an exception. I >  As documented, the memory returned is all owned by user mode no matter  > what the mode of the caller. > ? > Second, $GETUAI is a system service, not an RTL routine.  The G > distinction is important. RTL routines are those with names beginning I > with prefixes such as LIB$, STR$, etc. that are documented in "Run-Time  > Library" manuals.  > H > I took a look at the current VMS documentation and couldn't find whereD > it made a statement about the thread-safety of the RTL routines. I" > assume it is in there somewhere. >  > > ' > > > There were even statements at the G > > > beginning of the various RTL reference manuals attesting to their  > > > reentrant status.  > > J > > Apparently these attestations are not worth the paper they are written on > > :-(  > E > Yes they were.  But you're asking for something entirely different.  > L > > PPS. Are you completely sure about lib$*vm* being reentrant/thread safe?K > > I'll take your (and the manual's) word for it (and certainly don't have  any J > > information to the contrary) but I just want to make sure that any use ofJ > > interlocked queue instructions didn't get exaggerated out to cover the restK > > of the code. It's just that I was looking at the code the other day and  was K > > wondering that when the initial call for memory is made and the and the H > > _zone fields in the _lib$data psect are zero, if an AST occured then won't K > > that also see it as zero and think it's first as well? I just can't see  any I > > $SETAST calls (and obviously no IPL raising) in the rest of the code.  But L > > that code's thrashed so much in every image it's just gotta have all the > > bugs out by now. > G > I don't remember all the details - Rich Grove, who rewrote the LIB$VM H > routines for VMS 2.0 or 3.0 (I think), is now an Intel Fellow and sitsI > down the hall from me, but I've spent a lot of time with that code.  It I > is very definitely AST-reentrant and thread-safe, with some very clever E > code.  I think it used AST levels to keep things separate, though I G > don't doubt that the code has been tweaked over the years.  I do know F > that back in 1980 we were worrying about threads and I wrote the VAX > Pascal RTL to be thread-safe.  > I > And yes, I have obviously missed a lot of the discussion - I skim c.o.v  > and noticed the thread title.  >  > Steve  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:46:14 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day9 Message-ID: <fIKdnWS5jKdndyjZnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:H >>>>> At Decus Cincinnati 1992, I saw a Galaxy system with VMS and Linux > K >> I don't remember the year, but before Galaxy was released, the engineers 4 >> were showing a system running as described above. >  > C > In 1992, VMS was barely capable of running on Alpha (wasn't it at  > version 1.6) ?    G Yeah, further thought on the subject runs along the same lines.  Alpha  , was just getting started in the early 1990s.  F > My recollection is that Galaxy was launched  towards the very end ofH > Digital or early Compaq circa 1999.  The DECUS demonstration was on anO > alpha server 4100 with special firmware before the real GS machines were out.    Yeah, that seems more like it.  B > As I recall, Linux was chosen because it was able to behave in aF > multi-instance machine with regards to respecting which devices were/ > assigned to it and not touching other dvices.  >  > ! > GS machines came when EV6 came.      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:38:46 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> I Subject: Re: Any Way to Validate Username & Password from an Application? ; Message-ID: <2c1bd$44b63ed7$50db5015$13225@news.hispeed.ch>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:   I >   The other (or a variant) approach is to ask for an application-level  I > password, and run the password through sys$hash_password and such, and  I > to verify the resulting hash against a bogus (eg: disusered) username,  G > or (better, as it doesn't require privileged access into the OpenVMS  J > authorization database) against a hashed value stored in your database.   F I implemented a similar scheme before the ACM routines were available.I Each user was given a disusered account of the form 'username'_XXX, with  D the *same* UIC as their real username, thus enabling access to that H record by $GETUAI without additional privileges (the corporate standard E for usernames meant that appending "_XXX" didn't overflow the VMS 12   byte limit on usernames).   K Provided ACM is available, I'd definitely go for that method instead today.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:55:53 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> Y Subject: Re: EXECSTACKPAGES? (Was  Re: Oops! (Was: Re: Stacks, Static, Item Lists, Modes  1 Message-ID: <e95fol$dhb$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Tom,   @ > Works on F8.3 but not on 8.2, 7.3-2, 7.3-1 or 7.3 (AXP or VAX)  J Couldn't see it on the new features page. Do you have a release note or is it still hush hush?    Cheers Richard Maher  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message# news:op.tbu7jviyzgicya@hyrrokkin... 3 > On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:58:12 -0700, Richard Maher & > <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote: > H > > What version of VMS are you using? Can you please include the output > > from: -  > > sysgen> show execstackpages = > > Got a release note for when it was introduced/taken-away?  > @ > Works on F8.3 but not on 8.2, 7.3-2, 7.3-1 or 7.3 (AXP or VAX)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:59:26 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: Re: EXECSTACKPAGES? (Was  Re: Oops! (Was: Re: Stacks, Static, Item Lists, Modes  ) Message-ID: <op.tcmrtcwuzgicya@hyrrokkin>   4 On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:55:53 -0700, Richard Maher  =  $ <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote:  	 > Hi Tom,  > A >> Works on F8.3 but not on 8.2, 7.3-2, 7.3-1 or 7.3 (AXP or VAX)  > I > Couldn't see it on the new features page. Do you have a release note o=  r  =   > is > it still hush hush?  > F Don't know, just tried the command.  Couldn't find any reference in  =  
 release notes    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:27:39 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: EXECSTACKPAGES? (Was  Re: Oops! (Was: Re: Stacks, Static, Item Lists, Modes  0 Message-ID: <vLstg.441$Gg7.390@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tom Linden wrote: 5 > On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:55:53 -0700, Richard Maher   & > <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote: > 
 >> Hi Tom, >>B >>> Works on F8.3 but not on 8.2, 7.3-2, 7.3-1 or 7.3 (AXP or VAX) >> >>H >> Couldn't see it on the new features page. Do you have a release note 	 >> or  is  >> it still hush hush? >>G > Don't know, just tried the command.  Couldn't find any reference in    > release note > s   H It was added in V8.2-1.  I think the lack of a release note was just an 0 oversight.  No secret SYSGEN kabal at work here.   --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2006 00:54:20 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> Subject: Re: Hoffman Labs C Message-ID: <1152777260.084811.181690@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   E If you mean the ubiquitous Mr.Hoffman then parhaps he is busy or just ( wants to preserve a sense of mystery :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:53:23 GMT ' From: jls <jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net>  Subject: Re: Hoffman Labs 8 Message-ID: <22kcb2p48v0ujj3rf1imlmenrp1phhdlqh@4ax.com>  @ On 13 Jul 2006 00:54:20 -0700, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote:  F >If you mean the ubiquitous Mr.Hoffman then parhaps he is busy or just) >wants to preserve a sense of mystery :-)    International even. ;-) ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:50:39 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Hoffman Labs H Message-ID: <8660a3a10607130950jde07677r6c441644d0cd662f@mail.gmail.com>  3 On 7/8/06, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote: L > I just stumbled across a web site titled "Hoffman Labs" by Stephen Hoffman >  > http://hoffmanlabs.org/  >  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  >  >   D For those of you who speculate about whether the author of that site= is or is not THE HOFF whom we all know and love, consider the D cleanliness and form-follows-function of the style sheet on which it	 is based.   F And yes, I do know the answer to the question, but, to quote the folksA from Langley, I will "neither confirm nor deny it" as it isn't my  place to do so.    WWWebb --  C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2006 09:08:16 -0700$ From: "Chris L" <clusardi2k@aol.com>? Subject: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands C Message-ID: <1152806896.804622.287730@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Question is on subject line.  
 Thank you, Christopher Lusardi    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2006 09:24:30 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>C Subject: Re: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands C Message-ID: <1152807870.663085.190700@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    on which version of VMS?G I get more than 20 on the versions I've tried (VAX V7.1 and alpha V8.2)    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:23:55 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukC Subject: Re: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands ) Message-ID: <e95s2r$31u$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   j In article <1152806896.804622.287730@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Chris L" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: >Question is on subject line.  > 3 Which version of VMS and platform are you running ?   ? For recent versions of VMS on Alpha the limit is supposed to be H 254 commands and I don't think you should need to do anything special eg   Alpha2: RECALL/ALL  1 h recall/all  .  .  .   40 newsrdr 	  41 email   9 I'm not sure whether the limit was also increased on VAX.   	 See what     HELP RECALL   
 tells you.   RECALL    E      Displays up to 254 previously entered commands on the screen for       subsequent execution.        Format   "        RECALL  [command-specifier]          
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >Thank you,  >Christopher Lusardi >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2006 10:29:07 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>C Subject: Re: How To Get Recall/All To Display More Than 20 Commands B Message-ID: <1152811747.693861.68390@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: l > In article <1152806896.804622.287730@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Chris L" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: > >Question is on subject line.  > > 5 > Which version of VMS and platform are you running ?  > A > For recent versions of VMS on Alpha the limit is supposed to be J > 254 commands and I don't think you should need to do anything special eg >  > Alpha2: RECALL/ALL >  1 h recall/all  > .  > .  > . 
 >  40 newsrdr  >  41 email  > ; > I'm not sure whether the limit was also increased on VAX.  -   * On VAX/VMS v6.2 the limit is 254 commands.   -  > 
 > See what > 
 > HELP RECALL  >  > tells you. >  > RECALL >  > G >      Displays up to 254 previously entered commands on the screen for  >      subsequent execution. > 
 >      Format  > $ >        RECALL  [command-specifier] >  >  >  >  >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  > 
 > >Thank you,  > >Christopher Lusardi > >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2006 02:57:32 -0700 From: studyandscience@yahoo.com : Subject: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chipsC Message-ID: <1152784652.184720.103520@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   1 Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips   + http://www.studyandjobs.com/Micro_pump.html    or visit  ( http://www.studyandjobs.com/IT_study.htm   Regards    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jul 2006 08:57:41 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> > Subject: Re: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chipsB Message-ID: <1152806261.670451.297830@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    studyandscience@yahoo.com wrote:3 > Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips  > - > http://www.studyandjobs.com/Micro_pump.html  > 
 > or visit > * > http://www.studyandjobs.com/IT_study.htm > 	 > Regards     , Another cool idea: silicon Raman amplifiers;  4  <http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=7160>   ##< In a study to be presented today [June 28, 2006] at the 2006? International Optical Amplifiers and Applications Conference in D Vancouver, Canada, UCLA Engineering researchers report that not only@ can optical amplification in silicon be achieved with zero power; consumption, but power can now be generated in the process.  ##  G Looking at the latest advancements in materials, nanotech and opticals, > it sure feels like we're starting to push through the next-gen technology barriers.    
 ************* 1 As the proverbial curse of unknown origin states: %  "May you live in interesting times."    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:34:18 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> > Subject: Re: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips) Message-ID: <op.tcmyzgh3zgicya@hyrrokkin>   I On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:57:41 -0700, Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net=  >  =   wrote:   > ##> > In a study to be presented today [June 28, 2006] at the 2006A > International Optical Amplifiers and Applications Conference in F > Vancouver, Canada, UCLA Engineering researchers report that not onlyB > can optical amplification in silicon be achieved with zero power= > consumption, but power can now be generated in the process.  > ##  * So perpetual motion is possible after all.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jul 2006 16:43:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)> Subject: Re: Micro-pump is cool idea for future computer chips* Message-ID: <4hnbgtFe18kU1@individual.net>  ) In article <op.tcmyzgh3zgicya@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K > On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:57:41 -0700, Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net=  >>  =  >  > wrote: >  >> ## ? >> In a study to be presented today [June 28, 2006] at the 2006 B >> International Optical Amplifiers and Applications Conference inG >> Vancouver, Canada, UCLA Engineering researchers report that not only C >> can optical amplification in silicon be achieved with zero power > >> consumption, but power can now be generated in the process. >> ##  > , > So perpetual motion is possible after all.  ? Damn, you beat me to it.  I figured this was why the prices for A gas were so high.  The oil companies were trying to milk all they D could out of this before the perpetual motion machine was announced.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:17:09 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: OT: Ken Lay dead 0 Message-ID: <pGwrg.207$tu2.108@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Ken Lay was awaiting sentencing, so he was not yet incarcerated. Autopsy  8 was performed; heart attack was given as cause of death.  & Let's get back to discussing VMS here.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:52:18 +1200 1 From: Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> / Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? # Message-ID: <44b6348d@clear.net.nz>    Bob Koehler wrote:  4 > In article <44b4cda7@clear.net.nz>, Tux Wonder-Dog& > <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> writes: > H >> And that's partly why I believe HP should open the source tree, under >> some I >> suitable Open Source license.  Even if it was for a tree as old as VMS ; >> 2.0, we might see a change from "VMS is dead" headlines.  > J >    I'm not sure HP has a copy of the VMS 2.0 source tree.  And I'm quiteF >    sure I wouldn't want anything earlier than 3.0 as a souce tree inG >    general use.  There was still a lot of basic effort going into VMS  >    prior to 3.0.  I Good point.  Say it was the VMS 3.0 source tree released via the hobbyist H websites under something like the Mozilla Public License.  Something youK could use without worrying about relicensing each year, something you could ? work on to bring things like the TCP/IP stack up to speed, etc.    That's what I'm suggesting.   F But it would also be a way for HP to "get its feet wet" in Open SourceI Software.  Something that's suitably big and has a dedicated following, a A community already in place, and yet won't detract from commercial  operations.   
 Just my 0.02c   
 Wesley Parish  --  O "Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was U lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I C get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she D fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.G Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:36:35 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: The possibility of vms opening up? ( Message-ID: <e95i92$2g$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>  W In article <44b6348d@clear.net.nz>, Tux Wonder-Dog <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> writes:  >Bob Koehler wrote:  > 5 >> In article <44b4cda7@clear.net.nz>, Tux Wonder-Dog ' >> <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> writes:  >>  I >>> And that's partly why I believe HP should open the source tree, under  >>> someJ >>> suitable Open Source license.  Even if it was for a tree as old as VMS< >>> 2.0, we might see a change from "VMS is dead" headlines. >>  K >>    I'm not sure HP has a copy of the VMS 2.0 source tree.  And I'm quite G >>    sure I wouldn't want anything earlier than 3.0 as a souce tree in H >>    general use.  There was still a lot of basic effort going into VMS >>    prior to 3.0.  > J >Good point.  Say it was the VMS 3.0 source tree released via the hobbyistI >websites under something like the Mozilla Public License.  Something you L >could use without worrying about relicensing each year, something you could@ >work on to bring things like the TCP/IP stack up to speed, etc. > L You would have to write the TCPIP stack from scratch. VMS 3.0 did not have a% TCPIP stack. VMS 3.0 shipped in 1982.   L Digital didn't produce their own TCPIP stack for VMS (UCX) until about 1989.H Before that people used Multinet , TCPWARE , Wollongong, CMU/TEK ... etc      
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >That's what I'm suggesting. > G >But it would also be a way for HP to "get its feet wet" in Open Source J >Software.  Something that's suitably big and has a dedicated following, aB >community already in place, and yet won't detract from commercial >operations. >  >Just my 0.02c >  >Wesley Parish >-- P >"Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I wasV >lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  ID >get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'sheE >fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid. H >Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.387 ************************