1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Jul 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 409       Contents: Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day 0 Re: File I/O in Pascal, Exec-Mode, ASTs disabledP For those who are pregnant or with a weak heart - look away now! (Was: Re: File P Re: For those who are pregnant or with a weak heart - look away now! (Was: Re: F Getting file lines randomly  Re: Getting file lines randomly  Re: Getting file lines randomly  Re: Getting file lines randomly  Re: Getting file lines randomly # Re: InfoServer 100 trouble - update # Re: InfoServer 100 trouble - update : OpenVMS Management Station 3.2D - is there an x64 version?% Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ? % Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ? % Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ? % Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ? % Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ?  Porting VMS to x86 Re: Porting VMS to x86A Re: Under VMS, on an HSG80, can Raid Partition Size be Increased?  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 04:47:25 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayA Message-ID: <1153741645.682130.25150@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Andrew wrote: I > > What a truly ludicrous point. By the time Palmer came on the scene in J > > 1992 Alpha had been a fully funded project since 1989 and was itself aH > > followon from PRISM. The decisions to design and build Alpha and theI > > decisions about what OS platforms it would support and what migration I > > options would be offered to existing customers had already been made. I > > The only thing Palmer could have done at that point was cancelled the  > > project. > D > It was under Palmer that Digital's software portfolio was severelyI > reduced and that many products abanmdonned/not ported to Alpha (FMS was J > one of them, a decisions later reversed). Rememeber also the dropping ofJ > VAX document/bookreader in favour of some unknown 3rd party, a decisionsH > that was also rescinded much later after damage had already been done. >  > J > It was under Palmer that decisions were made to refuse to use the HudsonG > fab to its fullest, reserving production capacity for Alpha should it J > ever take off, this, at the same time that Palmer made damned sure Alpha1 > couldn't grow to compete angainst Intel's 8086.  >   A So who would Digital have sold FAB capacity to? They had no track F record of working with FABless vendors like Sun and they were in a lotD of instances major competitors for the companies who might have been% target customers to use Digitals FAB.   F That and the rather grandiose plans for Alpha meant that Palmer had to@ reserve FAB capacity ofr Alpha. Its rather tricky just to turn aG contracted FAB run off in order to make your own units if demand rises.   F > It was also Palmer that killed one of the biggest profit centres forH > DEC: ALL-IN-1. Shortly after they ad announced the porting of ALL-IN-1F > to Unix and Windows, Palmer announced that he had struck a deal withH > Microsoft to deploy Office everywhere and abandon ALL-IN-1 and all the? > messaging infrastructuire that had been so profitable to DEC.  > J > Prior to Palmer, the technical decisions/development of Alpha were made.H > Under Palmer, it was the business decisions that were made about Alpha9 > and it is those that crippled Alpha and killed Digital.  >   D Sadly not true. Apart from doing Alpha at all as a design the second? business/technical decision which crippled Digital which Palmer G inherited was the decision to FAB Alpha in house. The cost of designing F Alpha and then fabricating Alpha proved to be business decisions whichD bled Digital dry. Now its possible that the decision to FAB in houseD was made because Digital could not persuade any of the 3rd party FABE vendors to work with them something that would not have been entirely D suprising, but there is no evidence that Digital ever actually tried this route.    >  > J > > SLATER: I don't think so. Alpha is an outstanding piece of technology.I > > It is probably superior architecture to the architectures that exist, K > > but I don't believe the differences are big enough to overcome the fact - > > that it is very late entering the market.  > I > Ironic statement in hindsight isn't it ? It was in fact extremely early D > into the market. But His point still has validity in that the 8086, > architecture had already spread its roots. >   G No Alpha was extremely late into the market. MIPS, SPARC, HP-PA and IBM @ POWER had all beaten Alpha to market by a wide margin. Alpha was? released in 1992,  MIPS in 1985, ARM in 1986, IBM PC/RT in 1986 F (replaced by POWER in 1990), SPARC in 1987, PA-RISC 1989. Alpha wasn'tF even the first 64 bit RISC processor, the MIPS 4000 series which is 64 bit was released in 1991.   ? By the time Alpha arrived many of the RISC processors Alpha was C designed to compete against were in their 2 and or third iteration. F MIPS had gone from R2000 to R3000 to R4000. Sun had gone from SPARC v7 to SPARC v8 etc.  H > However, there would have still be chance for Alpha to uproot the 8086G > in the 1990s, especially during the hectic "fleet replacement" cycles I > for Win95/NT and later the Y2K. But by then, Plamer had already decided / > to not allow Alpha to compete at the low end.   D You have to remember that the early 1990's was an period where AlphaD was one of a number of processor architectures trying to unseat x86.F SPARC, POWER and MIPS were all attempting to do the same thing and hadD been for some time so Alpha entered a crowded market. That and AlphaF was being pushed by Digital a company that had seriously lost its way,F its customer base and possibly most importantly attention from its ISV	 partners.   F The reality is that whatever Palmer did he started from the standpointE of having been delt a really terrible hand of cards. Expecting him to E win out was as unreasonable as expecting to take over a hand at poker F and win when you have a nothing and your three oponents have 4 aces, 4  kings and 4 queens between them.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:14:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <44C4FFE2.E3575294@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: 2 > So who would Digital have sold FAB capacity to?   H I have been told some time ago that AMD had been very interestedbut thatG Digital intentionally made it diffidult for AMD to buy FAB capacity for E Hudson. In the end, DEC got its hands on the Arm, built StrongArm and F used Hudson to build those chips. But that wasn't anywhere near enough8 to fill the shoes that Alpha had been expected to fill.   H > That and the rather grandiose plans for Alpha meant that Palmer had toB > reserve FAB capacity ofr Alpha. Its rather tricky just to turn aI > contracted FAB run off in order to make your own units if demand rises.   F Palmer took steps to prevent Alpha from growing, such as preventing itF from competing against Wintel. And by 1996, Palmer was already talkingF to Pfeiffer about Compa buying Digital and Pfeiffer made it very clearF that he wasn't interested in the FAB, so from that point on, there was7 no point in trying to fix Hudson to get more customers.   I > inherited was the decision to FAB Alpha in house. The cost of designing H > Alpha and then fabricating Alpha proved to be business decisions which > bled Digital dry.   E Yes and no. It was the mismanagement and refusal to take on more work F which mad Husdon bleed money profusely. And Palmer hid that fact for aC very long time. I think it was Terry Shannon who got the scoop that H Hudson had been bleeding far more money than had been previously though,E and this was at the time Digital donated Hudson as a gift to Intel to 5 thank Intel for stealing Alpha intellectual property.   > Note that Digital made a lot of its own chips. And had DigitalH succesfully marketed its FAB capabilities and made it easy for others to2 use it, it might have been a succesful enterprise.  A > By the time Alpha arrived many of the RISC processors Alpha was E > designed to compete against were in their 2 and or third iteration. H > MIPS had gone from R2000 to R3000 to R4000. Sun had gone from SPARC v7 > to SPARC v8 etc.  G Yes, but Alpha was designed from scratch with new knowldge/technologies G that allowed it to scale much higher than existing risc processors. And H consider that when Alpha came out, HP pissed in its pants and decided toD abandon its own PA-Risc and beg Intel to design something that could compete against Alpha.  > Alpha may have been a late comer to the RISC party, but it wasB definitely a class above the rest from a technology point of view.  F > You have to remember that the early 1990's was an period where AlphaF > was one of a number of processor architectures trying to unseat x86.  E It can be argued that Alpha succeeded. Consider the Pentium III which ' contains a lot of "Alpha Inside"... :-)   H > The reality is that whatever Palmer did he started from the standpoint6 > of having been delt a really terrible hand of cards.  E Loy Gerstner inherited an IBM that was months away from bankrupcy and F processes already begun to sell parts of IBM off to pay the creditors.H He got an IBM in a much worse condition than Palmer got Digital.  PalmerC didn't inherit a healthy Digital. But he worsoned the situation BIG  TIME.   F Gerstner focused on keeping IBM to gether and fixing PROBLEMS.  PalmerC knew only how to change the logo to have a round dot on the I and a H slightly different shade of red, and of course, slash and burn employeesF and products, followed by a never ending game of musical chairs at theF top whenever he had to make financial announcements that had bad news.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 10:15:03 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayB Message-ID: <1153761303.309410.190810@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > Andrew wrote:  >  > ...  > 3 >   The decisions to design and build Alpha and the I > > decisions about what OS platforms it would support and what migration I > > options would be offered to existing customers had already been made. I > > The only thing Palmer could have done at that point was cancelled the  > > project. > H > You still don't seem able to wrap what passes for your mind around theE > fact that a product cannot possibly *decline* due to decisions made G > public before it was even *born* (i.e., before it was released to the I > market to establish an actual position - in the context of those public 8 > positions - from which a *decline* could be measured). >   F Ohh its groundhog day again. Simply repeating your mantra doesn't make" your argument any more compelling.  D Let me try to explain this more simply and how about a one technical analogy as well to help.   First the analogy.  E Lets imagine thay you are the developer of a new economic center lets F imagine its in China because this is actually happening in China. LetsG imagine its your second such venture the first having made you a profit F but at the expense of the companies and indeviduals moving in and your infrastructure partners.  C So you build you new commercial center, it looks great you employed > great achitects. Busines and indeviduals move in and soon yourB occupancy rate is close to 100%. But you had difficulty persuadingF utility providers, electricity, gas, water, data etc to provide enough? capacity for your new center due to the mixed results from your  previous venture.   ? Soon the infrastucture starts to show strain, your tenants have B reliability problems with their electicity supply, water useage is@ restricted etc. The building work required to remedy this causesD traffic chaos and destroys the ambeince of your beautifully designed center.   - Tenants start to leave, occupancy rates fall.   G Now back to Apha. As I said earlier Alpha was doomed before its release D because of its lateness, its lack of ISV support, lack of a sensibleD Ultrix migration strategy, falling market share etc. Of course Alpha> did fairly well initially it was new it was 64bit it was fast.  F It did very well in the HPC market propelling Compaq into 1st place inC the HPC market when they bought Digital. However Alpha's release in G 1992 as I have said earlier coincided with the start of a change in the : way major corporations deployed software from make to buy.  F In the early nineties many corporations could get by with the platform9 a DBMS and a solid development environment. Alpha did ok.   G By the mid nineties this was changing and by the end of the nineties it E had changed completely. Out went the in house developed fincancial's, F supply chain, reporting etc. In came the SAP's, the Baan's etc. HavingD a DBMS and a good development environement was no longer good enoughG and Alpha suffered because it had never recovered the momentum with the  ISV's that the VAX had had.   E Virtually all major ISV's didn't develop commercial apps on it and it D wasn't on anyones first port list, in fact it wasn't on most peoplesF port list at all. This was all a legacy of the Digitals vacilations in the mid to late 80's.   C Things were not improved by the fact that the Alpha ISV story was a G confused one again because of decisions made prior to the Alpha Launch. G Which OS to port to, Windows, Tru64, OpenVMS. Clearly Windows only apps G to Alpha/Windows etc but what about the apps which ran on Unix, Windows G and OpenVMS confusion all round particularly from the Digital ISV sales  teams.  ? One of the Financial services companies I worked for replaced a B financial ledger app running on an OpenVMS/Alpha/RDB cluster whichG itself was an upgrade from VAX/VMS with a Solaris/Linux based platform.     C This was because they no longer used their own internally developed E messaging system, the financials package was also now buy rather than E make option and they wanted the latest version of Oracle. The initial D Alpha sucess, replacing the VAX cluster ended in a Solaris migrationD because the components the bank wanted simply did not exist on Alpha for either Tru64 or OpenVMS.  D Ironically most of the components did run on Windows which in theoryB could run on Alpha but none of the banks ISV's would support theirG software running using FX!32. Alpha had never been a strategic purchase G for the Bank like the VAX's it was just an upgrade they had been forced E to do, so they  were not in the mood to hit each Windows ISV over the C head to get them to qualify their FX!32'd software. It was too much  work for a third tier vendor.   D Another bank was similarly upgraded from VAX/VMS to Alpha/OpenVMS toA Solaris because the third party SW vendor they used had ported to E OpenVMS on Alpha, it was their only platform at the time so they were @ foreced to.  But then had stopped developing on Aplha completelyG instead developing for AIX and Solaris. They bank chose Solaris because 3 it was their group UNIX standard, others chose AIX.   B The HPC market remained a strong performer but, every vendor had a> Fortran Compiler and MPI etc etc and the price per flop of x86E platforms became too compelling and so the only really large make not F buy market left where Alphas lack of software didn't matter collapsed. > > K > > As a perspective on Alpha from a rather better informed source than you J > > read the comments made by Michael Slater in an interview in 1992 after > > Alpha's announcement.  > > I > > UPSIDE: We didn't talk much about the Alpha chip. Is it going to be a  > > world-beater?  > > J > > SLATER: I don't think so. Alpha is an outstanding piece of technology.I > > It is probably superior architecture to the architectures that exist, K > > but I don't believe the differences are big enough to overcome the fact I > > that it is very late entering the market. There is an enormous amount J > > of inertia and software base that DEC has to fight. Every company thatI > > DEC goes out to convince to make Alpha chips or to build systems with H > > Alpha, every one of those companies over the last few years has beenH > > pitched by Sun for Sparc, pitched by Mips, then HP for PA RISC, then > > pitched by IBM for RS/6000.  > > G > > How precient of him the reasons for the death of Alpha spelt out in  > > 1992 just after its launch.  > F > In your own little alternative reality, perhaps.  In the real world,I > Alpha and Tru64 indeed struggled to reestablish credibility in the Unix E > market, but the struggle (as I've noted before - but which you keep H > ignoring because it proves inconvenient to your myth) was an *upward*,H > not a *downward*, struggle.  Tru64 was growing robustly during the twoI > years that preceded the Alphacide (and possibly earlier, though I don't F > happen to have information about that period) and had already clawedF > back a respectable chunk of the market; VMS was growing (albeit muchH > more slowly) during a similar period; and the combination of Alpha andE > its prime OSs was one of the most profitable franchises (along with I > service and storage) that Compaq owned - *far* more profitable than its / > faltering (at least profit-wise) PC business.  >   C Its an interesting distortion of the facts. In reality Alpha got to C about 12% server market share in the early nineties but by 1998 had C shrunk to 5-6%. So yes it was going back up but it still hadn't got C back to earlier heights. Alpha also had 10% share of the worksation 2 market in the early nineties this never recovered.  " The ball(s) are all in your court.   Regards  Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:32:34 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <44C5042F.DB6C7CBB@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: I > and Alpha suffered because it had never recovered the momentum with the  > ISV's that the VAX had had.   H And that is because Palmer did nothing to bring back ISVs, while, at theE same time, slashing and burning his own products. And when Palmer did F realise he needed software, he went to Microsoft, struck deals to giveD Digital the right to sell Microsoft software on wintel. (most peopleH don't sacrifice their own children to get the right to sell MS software, but Digital did).       F You cannot judge Alpha alone because you need to consider that DigitalC was being lead into oblivion by Palmer instead pf Palmer fixing the > pricing and markleting problems that had lead Digital into the( relatively small problems he inherited.   E Some of Palmer's decisions were so ludicrous that he had to backtrack D (firing all sales people in certain markets for instance, as well as@ selling off the software used to generate all documentation !!!)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:26:03 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>9 Subject: Re: File I/O in Pascal, Exec-Mode, ASTs disabled 0 Message-ID: <%L4xg.971$C51.346@news.cpqcorp.net>   Richard Maher wrote: > Hi Frank,   F You should have warned us that the reply contained COBOL in EXEC mode!  G Yeesh, talk about Software Fear Factor.  I sure hope I get my appetite   back before lunch time.   B Honestly, given all the automatic stuff the COBOL RTL does in the G background (not just for I/O), I would have answered "probably not" to  F the "Does COBOL work in EXEC mode?" question.  At least until today...   --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 23:09:46 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> Y Subject: For those who are pregnant or with a weak heart - look away now! (Was: Re: File  1 Message-ID: <ea2nna$jff$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi John,  H > You should have warned us that the reply contained COBOL in EXEC mode!  K Some people see the world as it is and ask "Why?"; I see COBOL and ask "Why 	 not?" :-)   I Look, I'm not recomending that people try this in COBOL, or Pascal or any D other HLL (Or that piece o' shit C that, judging by the sys$examplesF program, can't control RTL memory allocation or anything else for thatJ matter!) I was simply trying to answer Frank's requirement spec as closelyB as I could. Not knowing that Pascal-virus that half-trained ex-DECJ contractors inflicted on much of Western Europe, I chose what I thought to be the closest fit.   H > Yeesh, talk about Software Fear Factor.  I sure hope I get my appetite > back before lunch time.   J Welcome to life in the fast(ish)/zimmer-frame lane! (Please stop twitching :-)   C > Honestly, given all the automatic stuff the COBOL RTL does in the H > background (not just for I/O), I would have answered "probably not" toH > the "Does COBOL work in EXEC mode?" question.  At least until today...  I I think you'll be surprised at just how powerful and versatile a language K DEC COBOL really is. (And when you're finished bringing it up to speed with C the latest functionality standards, it's gonna be even better.) For  everything else, there's MACRO!    Cheers Richard Maher  G PS. You're still surprised that lib$establish even works with DEC COBOL 
 aren't ya?  3 "John Reagan" <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote in message * news:%L4xg.971$C51.346@news.cpqcorp.net... > Richard Maher wrote:
 > > Hi Frank,  > H > You should have warned us that the reply contained COBOL in EXEC mode! > H > Yeesh, talk about Software Fear Factor.  I sure hope I get my appetite > back before lunch time.  > C > Honestly, given all the automatic stuff the COBOL RTL does in the H > background (not just for I/O), I would have answered "probably not" toH > the "Does COBOL work in EXEC mode?" question.  At least until today... >  > --  
 > John Reagan 7 > HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  > Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:46:49 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: For those who are pregnant or with a weak heart - look away now! (Was: Re: F 0 Message-ID: <JX5xg.979$n91.854@news.cpqcorp.net>   Richard Maher wrote:   > I > PS. You're still surprised that lib$establish even works with DEC COBOL  > aren't ya? >   F Actually, that is probably the only thing that didn't surprise me. :-)  @ If you look at the generated code, you'll see that your call to G LIB$ESTABLISH was special-cased.  You didn't call LIB$ESTABLISH at all  G (it doesn't exist on Alpha), but caused COBOL to establish a different  C handler inside the RTL that emulates the behavior of LIB$ESTABLISH.   I I certainly appreciate the COBOL compiler and language for what it does.  F   It is just that I'm 100% that nobody on the COBOL project ever went C out of their way to consider using COBOL in anything but user-mode.    --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 07:24:10 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com $ Subject: Getting file lines randomlyB Message-ID: <1153751050.495081.209800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  F Is there any way, using a dcl procedure, to select 3 lines in a file ,
 randomly ? Example:  
 $ ty file.txt    orange
 strawberry	 pineapple  banana lime   $ @randomly    banana oranga lime   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:05:36 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>( Subject: Re: Getting file lines randomly0 Message-ID: <4l5xg.973$p81.225@news.cpqcorp.net>   contracer11@gmail.com wrote:H > Is there any way, using a dcl procedure, to select 3 lines in a file , > randomly ?  G     Yes, this selection is easily possible by acquiring any of various  I values (often derived from the system time and I/O counts and other such  I factors) and using this to generate an index on a loop that reads in the  @ records, stopping when the pseudo-random index value is reached.  G    Writing some sort of password tool?  If so, there are rather better  C ways to deal with this particular situation.  (There are tools and  F mechanisms that allow rather more random passwords, and there are DCL ; procedures that use these tools available for examination.)   I    There are various "toys" that use a sequence similar to what you seem  C to want here, the most common one I can think of has three sets of  F (usually) ten words, and can be used as a buzz-phrase generator.  For H example, and realize I have no connection with any of the following two  URLs:   -      http://www.acronymfinder.com/buzzgen.asp 5      http://www.cafepress.com/iqthereforeiam.35260768   F    Buzz-phrase bingo is a pursuit encountered occasionally in various C presentations, as well.  Whether subversive or a survival instinct  D depends on whether you're calling the game or playing it, of course.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:02:08 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> ( Subject: Re: Getting file lines randomlyE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0607240855310.10175@localhost.localdomain>   0 On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 contracer11@gmail.com wrote:  H > Is there any way, using a dcl procedure, to select 3 lines in a file , > randomly ?  % Sure.  DCL is a programming language.   8 On the VMS FAQ, you will find a random number generator.  E You can use SEARCH/STAT (for example) to find out how many lines are   in file.  G You can use the DCL OPEN command to open the file and the READ command  G to read the file sequentially, discarding lines that you don't want to   print.  D If you had, or were willing to create, unique keys for each record, D you could create an indexed file and use READ/KEY and avoid reading  the file sequentially.  > Don't forget to issue the DCL CLOSE command to close the file.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 09:33:20 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com ( Subject: Re: Getting file lines randomlyC Message-ID: <1153758799.847440.288180@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Rob Brown wrote:2 > On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > J > > Is there any way, using a dcl procedure, to select 3 lines in a file , > > randomly ? > ' > Sure.  DCL is a programming language.  > : > On the VMS FAQ, you will find a random number generator. > F > You can use SEARCH/STAT (for example) to find out how many lines are
 > in file. > H > You can use the DCL OPEN command to open the file and the READ commandH > to read the file sequentially, discarding lines that you don't want to > print. > E > If you had, or were willing to create, unique keys for each record, E > you could create an indexed file and use READ/KEY and avoid reading  > the file sequentially. > @ > Don't forget to issue the DCL CLOSE command to close the file. >  >  > -- > D > Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m8 > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)6 > Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)4 >                                   http://gmcl.com/   What I am doing wrong ??/ procedure below only show me file first line...    Alpha>> ty ap.com  $ set nover  $   now_time = F$time() % $   hrs = F$cvtime(now_time,, "hour") ' $   min = F$cvtime(now_time,, "minute") ' $   sec = F$cvtime(now_time,, "second") * $   hun = F$cvtime(now_time,, "hundredth") $  $   ! + $   ! Get a good seed to start the madness.  $   ! 6 $   seed = 360000 * hrs + 6000 * min + 100 * sec + hun $   seed = seed .and. %XFFFF $ 9 $   highval = 100           ! Get a number from 0 to 100. , $   gosub _RANDOM           ! Get the random $!   write sys$output random $ open/read file users.lis$ $ read/index='random' file  registro  $ write sys$output "''registro'" $ close file $exit 	 $_RANDOM: . $   seed = (seed * 69069 + 1) .and. %XFFFFFFFF& $   rand = (seed / %X100) .and. %XFFFF $   t = rand / highval $   k = %XFFFF / highval0 $   if rand .gt. (k * highval) then goto _RANDOM# $   random = rand - t * highval + 1  $  $ Return $ open/read file users.lis$ $ read/index='random' file  registro  $ write sys$output "''registro'" $ close file     Alpha>> @ap 7       OpenVMS User Processes at 24-JUL-2006 11:24:22.57  Alpha>> @ap 7       OpenVMS User Processes at 24-JUL-2006 11:24:22.57  Alpha>> @ap 7       OpenVMS User Processes at 24-JUL-2006 11:24:22.57  Alpha>>    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:30:22 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com( Subject: Re: Getting file lines randomlyQ Message-ID: <OFD54FBC05.A765B03E-ON852571B5.00601749-852571B5.00602A3D@metso.com>   6 contracer11@gmail.com wrote on 07/24/2006 12:33:20 PM:   >  > Rob Brown wrote:4 > > On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > > J > > > Is there any way, using a dcl procedure, to select 3 lines in a file ,  > > > randomly ? > > ) > > Sure.  DCL is a programming language.  > > < > > On the VMS FAQ, you will find a random number generator. > > H > > You can use SEARCH/STAT (for example) to find out how many lines are > > in file. > > J > > You can use the DCL OPEN command to open the file and the READ commandJ > > to read the file sequentially, discarding lines that you don't want to
 > > print. > > G > > If you had, or were willing to create, unique keys for each record, G > > you could create an indexed file and use READ/KEY and avoid reading  > > the file sequentially. > > B > > Don't forget to issue the DCL CLOSE command to close the file. > >  > >  > > -- > > F > > Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m: > > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)8 > > Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)6 > >                                   http://gmcl.com/ >  > What I am doing wrong ??1 > procedure below only show me file first line...  >  > Alpha>> ty ap.com 
 > $ set nover  > $   now_time = F$time() ' > $   hrs = F$cvtime(now_time,, "hour") ) > $   min = F$cvtime(now_time,, "minute") ) > $   sec = F$cvtime(now_time,, "second") , > $   hun = F$cvtime(now_time,, "hundredth") > $  > $   ! - > $   ! Get a good seed to start the madness.  > $   ! 8 > $   seed = 360000 * hrs + 6000 * min + 100 * sec + hun > $   seed = seed .and. %XFFFF > $ ; > $   highval = 100           ! Get a number from 0 to 100. . > $   gosub _RANDOM           ! Get the random > $!   write sys$output random > $ open/read file users.lis   $loop: $ read file  registro  $if c .lt. random  $then  $c=c+1
 $goto loop $endif  & > $ read/index='random' file  registro" > $ write sys$output "''registro'" > $ close file > $exit  > $_RANDOM: 0 > $   seed = (seed * 69069 + 1) .and. %XFFFFFFFF( > $   rand = (seed / %X100) .and. %XFFFF > $   t = rand / highval > $   k = %XFFFF / highval2 > $   if rand .gt. (k * highval) then goto _RANDOM% > $   random = rand - t * highval + 1  > $ 
 > $ Return > $ open/read file users.lis& > $ read/index='random' file  registro" > $ write sys$output "''registro'" > $ close file >  > 
 > Alpha>> @ap 9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 24-JUL-2006 11:24:22.57 
 > Alpha>> @ap 9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 24-JUL-2006 11:24:22.57 
 > Alpha>> @ap 9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 24-JUL-2006 11:24:22.57 	 > Alpha>>  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:56:56 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>, Subject: Re: InfoServer 100 trouble - update. Message-ID: <Ik4xg.969$E51.8@news.cpqcorp.net>   gl@decadence.it wrote:: > Il Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:11:25 -0700, VAXelate ha scritto:J >> As it happens, I have an RZ23 system drive from an Infoserver 100 about9 >> to hit the dumpster that MIGHT still be servicable. ..   H    Y'all are aware that current OpenVMS releases have InfoServer server E capabilities integrated, yes?  This in addition to the long-standing  E MOP/LAD client capabilities.  (IIRC, the first release that had this  7 officially was V8.2-1, but that it was latent in V8.2.)    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 08:13:59 -0700% From: "VAXelate" <moore.mc@gmail.com> , Subject: Re: InfoServer 100 trouble - updateB Message-ID: <1153754039.713092.184090@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  C Managed to remove the RZ23 from the skeleton of the Infoserver, and D mount into aq VAX 4105A.  Looks like Richard's comments are spot on.D An image backup produces a VERY small saveset with one Files-11 root@ [SYSD] and very little in that.  Obviously, much more is needed.  G Other than a BACKUP/PHYSICAL (OK if you have an RZ23 with no bad clocks E where mine doesn't...) or shipping out the RZ23, not sure how else to  help, sorry.   Chris    gl@decadence.it wrote:A > Il Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:07:14 -0400, Richard Tomkins ha scritto: N > > A backup /foreign will probably work as I do not believe (old memory) thatP > > the disk was even remotely files-11 compatible. It was, from what I rememberK > > custom, as you created partitions for the data you wanted to serve. The N > > partitions were made by specifying a size, the data was interpreted by theN > > client application accessing the Infoserver, that being DOS, VMS, Mac, and > > others.\ >  > Hello Richard H > I will try again the backup solution for this problem at least another > time. G > If it doesn't work, then I will give up and look for the software cd. ( > Once again, thanks for the information >  > Bye  > gl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:50:59 +1000 # From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> C Subject: OpenVMS Management Station 3.2D - is there an x64 version? 0 Message-ID: <12c99gjm3tmtu62@corp.supernews.com>  L Upgraded some workstations to WXP64 on AMD64 Athlon.  Most things run fine, M but the management station utility won't install - wants a different version  
 of FX32!!!  J Have googled HP but can't find anything, would appreciate any experiences.   Cheers     ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 02:34:29 -0700% From: "Pierre" <pierre.bru@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ?B Message-ID: <1153733669.571112.91100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  M > What you can do is keep an empty stream_lf file around, then convert with a  > copy command.  > 7 > $ copy empty_stmlf.txt,your_vfc.txt stmlf_product.txt      > Here's another approach: >  > $ copy nla0: empty.dat# > $ set file/attr=rfm=stm empty.dat , > $ pipe command | append sys$pipe empty.dat  G none of these approches work :( as the redirect generate 2 records (the E 2nd being empty) and as both copy and append are record oriented, the @ resulting output file contains 2 records, the 2nd being empty...   Pierre.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 08:07:33 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ?3 Message-ID: <bo$4f$$aic1I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1153733669.571112.91100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Pierre" <pierre.bru@gmail.com> writes:N >> What you can do is keep an empty stream_lf file around, then convert with a >> copy command. >>8 >> $ copy empty_stmlf.txt,your_vfc.txt stmlf_product.txt >  >  >> Here's another approach:  >> >> $ copy nla0: empty.dat $ >> $ set file/attr=rfm=stm empty.dat- >> $ pipe command | append sys$pipe empty.dat  > I > none of these approches work :( as the redirect generate 2 records (the G > 2nd being empty) and as both copy and append are record oriented, the B > resulting output file contains 2 records, the 2nd being empty...  A I have not perused the entire thread on this topic, so forgive me  if I'm missing the point.   > $ pipe ( define /user sys$output stmlf_product.txt ; command )  B [Note that the parentheses are not actually required in this case]  I One of the problems you are up against is that DCL insists on pre-opening D SYS$OUTPUT as a file if it exists as a supervisor mode logical name.C Pipe redirections are implemented as supervisor mode logical names. ) That's where you get the VFC format from.   D If the logical name assignment is in user mode instead, DCL will not> pre-open the file, leaving that task for the language run timeE environment.  This should give you the language default output format  such as Stream_LF.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:52:42 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> . Subject: Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ?E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0607240848160.10175@localhost.localdomain>   " On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, Pierre wrote:  @ >> What you can do is keep an empty stream_lf file around, then  >> convert with a copy command.  >>8 >> $ copy empty_stmlf.txt,your_vfc.txt stmlf_product.txt >  >  >> Here's another approach:  >> >> $ copy nla0: empty.dat $ >> $ set file/attr=rfm=stm empty.dat. >> $ pipe  command | append sys$pipe empty.dat > E > none of these approches work :( as the redirect generate 2 records  ? > (the 2nd being empty) and as both copy and append are record  B > oriented, the resulting output file contains 2 records, the 2nd  > being empty...   What is wrong with:   9    $ CONVERT/FDL=STMLF.FDL your_vfc.txt stmlf_product.txt    STMLF.FDL contains	    RECORD       FORMAT STREAM_LF    ?      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 08:49:14 -0700% From: "Pierre" <pierre.bru@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ?B Message-ID: <1153756154.338905.294480@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Rob Brown wrote:$ > On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, Pierre wrote: > A > >> What you can do is keep an empty stream_lf file around, then ! > >> convert with a copy command.  > >>: > >> $ copy empty_stmlf.txt,your_vfc.txt stmlf_product.txt > >  > >  > >> Here's another approach:  > >> > >> $ copy nla0: empty.dat & > >> $ set file/attr=rfm=stm empty.dat0 > >> $ pipe  command | append sys$pipe empty.dat > > F > > none of these approches work :( as the redirect generate 2 records@ > > (the 2nd being empty) and as both copy and append are recordC > > oriented, the resulting output file contains 2 records, the 2nd  > > being empty... >  > What is wrong with:  > ; >    $ CONVERT/FDL=STMLF.FDL your_vfc.txt stmlf_product.txt  >  > STMLF.FDL contains >    RECORD  >      FORMAT STREAM_LF  >  > ?   0 the problem is with the empty record: instead of  
 mydata<LF>   the resulting file will contain    mydata<LF><LF>   > -- > D > Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m8 > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)6 > Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)4 >                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:34:48 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> . Subject: Re: PIPE redirection as stream file ?E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0607241019400.11371@localhost.localdomain>   " On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Pierre wrote:  C > I got a program the output some text followed by <CR><LF> and the A > result is the the redirected output contains 2 records: the 1st ( > contains the data and the 2nd is empty  * I am guessing you are using a command like      $ PIPE yourprog >outfile.txt   - Do you get a different result if you do this:   '    $ DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT outfile.txt 
    $ yourprog    ?   C What do you get when you run the program without the pipe?  Is the   output double spaced?   D What do you see for "Record Attributes" when you DIRECTORY/FULL the G output file?  If there is some kind of carriage control mentioned, try  / changing it to "none" with SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES.      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jul 2006 23:48:19 -0700( From: "David Kanter" <dkanter@gmail.com> Subject: Porting VMS to x86 B Message-ID: <1153723699.705655.189000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  E > > Maybe so, but after years of hearing how the x86 architecture was  > > unsuitable for running VMS > 3 > Wow - some people will believe anything, I guess.  > J > Given that active investigation of porting VMS to x86 was actually underC > way in the early '90s, suggesting that there's any insurmountable H > obstacle (beyond major amounts of mostly-standard grunt work) involvedG > seems a bit unreasonable - especially now that x86 has become 64-bit.   E Hey Bill.  I'm not a VMS guru by any stretch, but IIRC, VMS is one of E the few operating systems that actually makes use of some of the more G arcane elements of IA64.  In particular, I'm thinking of the R/W/E bits C (of which x86 only has an E bit).  It seems to me that this sort of @ thing would require some rather substantial modifications to get  around...can someone comment on:  E 1.  Whether it is true that VMS uses R/W/E (all three) bits for PTEs? ; 2.  If there is an easy way to get around this in software?    [snip]  H > You don't think that, e.g., rewriting assembler routines in HLLs makesF > porting easier?  ISTR one or more of the associated engineers makingJ > precisely this point a while ago - and explicitly stating that they tookI > advantage of the Itanic port to make a possible subsequent port easier.   G I think it's pretty obvious that by the 3rd port, things would be quite 5 easy...but the cost may outweigh the benefits for HP.    DK   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:28:11 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Porting VMS to x86 G Message-ID: <2I2dnTiXndexnljZnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    David Kanter wrote: E >>> Maybe so, but after years of hearing how the x86 architecture was  >>> unsuitable for running VMS4 >> Wow - some people will believe anything, I guess. >>K >> Given that active investigation of porting VMS to x86 was actually under D >> way in the early '90s, suggesting that there's any insurmountableI >> obstacle (beyond major amounts of mostly-standard grunt work) involved H >> seems a bit unreasonable - especially now that x86 has become 64-bit. > G > Hey Bill.  I'm not a VMS guru by any stretch, but IIRC, VMS is one of G > the few operating systems that actually makes use of some of the more I > arcane elements of IA64.  In particular, I'm thinking of the R/W/E bits E > (of which x86 only has an E bit).  It seems to me that this sort of B > thing would require some rather substantial modifications to get" > around...can someone comment on: > G > 1.  Whether it is true that VMS uses R/W/E (all three) bits for PTEs? = > 2.  If there is an easy way to get around this in software?   D While I can't find it with a quick search in groups.google.com, I'm G pretty sure that this question came up within the past year or so here  C and that the result was that this did not constitute a significant  < obstacle due to the way VMS actually manages process memory.  I >> You don't think that, e.g., rewriting assembler routines in HLLs makes G >> porting easier?  ISTR one or more of the associated engineers making K >> precisely this point a while ago - and explicitly stating that they took J >> advantage of the Itanic port to make a possible subsequent port easier. > I > I think it's pretty obvious that by the 3rd port, things would be quite 7 > easy...but the cost may outweigh the benefits for HP.   - The latter was not an issue under discussion.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 06:34:41 -0700' From: "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> J Subject: Re: Under VMS, on an HSG80, can Raid Partition Size be Increased?B Message-ID: <1153748081.826238.69510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>  C I ended up booting the system min, and doing disk to disk copies to  move my partitions.  Serious down time!!!  - The backups were taking about 2.5 hours each.   ' Now for the next time I do such re-orgs   D The drives are NOT host based shadowed, only controller based raid5.G That's not to say I couldn't talk the client into host based shadowing, ' if I can prove it's to their advantage.   ) I'm reading Bob's presentation as I type.   G David I would be very interested in Dynamic Volume Expansion (DVE), any  link would be appreciated.  
 thanks all     Bob Gezelter wrote: 
 > syslost, > G > Aside from the comments about the partitions on the HSG80, there is a A > potential alternative to a disruptive BACKUP/RESTORE operation.  > E > You did not mention your configuration beyond the RAID usage on the G > HSG. If you have Host Based Shadowing enabled on your system (or have & > the license), there is another path. > E > If the RAID set is part of a host-based shadow set, you can use the I > combination of Dissimilar device support and Volume expansion to create I > a new, larger RAID set, and add the new RAID set to the existing shadow C > set. Once the shadow copy is complete (which can be done with the @ > system fully running production), the original RAID set can be > released.  > I > I presented a session at last year's HP Technical Forum in Orlando. The F > session was entitled "Migrating OpenVMS Storage Environments withoutA > Interruption or Disruption". The session notes are available at 7 > http://www.rlgsc.com/hptechnologyforum/2005/1146.html  > & > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 04:12:24 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>& Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. InfoserverC Message-ID: <1153739544.149289.236410@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E As an alternative you can run a infoserver on VMS with VMS I64 V8.2-1 , and later and VMS ALPHA V8.3 (parhaps  V8.2)   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 07:50:04 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver3 Message-ID: <4QJqKeM+v$1Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1153739544.149289.236410@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes:G > As an alternative you can run a infoserver on VMS with VMS I64 V8.2-1 . > and later and VMS ALPHA V8.3 (parhaps  V8.2)  ' But not the CD writing or tape serving.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:00:56 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver/ Message-ID: <so4xg.970$Z_.373@news.cpqcorp.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:h > In article <1153739544.149289.236410@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes:H >> As an alternative you can run a infoserver on VMS with VMS I64 V8.2-1/ >> and later and VMS ALPHA V8.3 (parhaps  V8.2)  > ) > But not the CD writing or tape serving.   E    CD recording is present in V7.3-2 and later via CDRECORD.COM, and  D DVD+R/RW recording is present in V8.3 and later via the DCL command E COPY/RECORDABLE_MEDIA.  (For those participating in the EFT for 8.3,  D there is a downloadable PCSI installation kit that loads the latest 3 recording bits, as well as detailed documentation.)   H    The InfoServer CD-R recording capabilities (InfoScribe) are specific I to a couple of very ancient CD-R drives, and are not generalized and not  F something I would expect to see operate with any newer CD-R/RW drives.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:34:29 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver0 Message-ID: <VT4xg.972$e71.331@news.cpqcorp.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:   B >   CD recording is present in V7.3-2 and later via CDRECORD.COM,        Correction: V7.3-1 and later.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.409 ************************                      >K{=r5h$rc0W}HT/=<=]>7/1WIOiԇ!ȡ7jM>@1;48I
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