1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 25 Jul 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 411       Contents:+ "get" function in HP's sftp fails sometimes  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Re: An opportunity for VMS Oracle on OpenVMS Itanium  Re: Oracle on OpenVMS Itanium  Re: Oracle on OpenVMS Itanium  RE: Oracle on OpenVMS Itanium  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver  Re: XP1000 problem Re: XP1000 problem Re: XP1000 problem Re: XP1000 problem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 01:41:58 -0700* From: "Palda" <jiri.pallich@logicacmg.com>4 Subject: "get" function in HP's sftp fails sometimesA Message-ID: <1153816918.573764.16280@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   
 Greetings,  G I have a problem with HP's sftp client. Sometimes, the "get" and "mget" F function fails and makes the sftp crashing. Especially when using sftpE in batch mode (sftp "-B" ...) it happens everytime. Does anybody have F any idea what is going wrong in here? Thank you for your tips'n'tricks :)   Best regards Jiri Pallich   Here is the output:  --------------------------   VMS1:SYSTEM> sftp user@node  sftp> ascii  File transfer mode is now ascii  sftp> cd PRIVATE/XYZ/UPLOAD  /PRIVATE/XYZ/UPLOAD 
 sftp> verbose  sftp> ls -l C SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:280: File is "raw", and it needs to be  parsed. C -rw-r--r--    1 667      503           951 Nov 10  2005 id_rsa_xxxx 7 -rwxr-xr--    1 667      503           369 Nov 14  2005  id_rsa_1024_xxxx.pubD -rwxr-xr-x    1 501      501           139 Jul 24 11:42 ABC00006.LOG; drwxr-xr-x    2 667      503          4096 Jul 24 13:59 OP1 ; drwxr-xr-x    2 667      503          4096 Jul 21 13:42 OP2 C SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:215: Received error `End of file' (1).  sftp> get ABC00006.LOGC SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:280: File is "raw", and it needs to be  parsed. ; SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:2051: File list has 2 files. : SshReadLine/SSHREADLINE.C:3717: Uninitializing ReadLine...C FATAL: BUILD4$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC_PAT.SSH2]SSHFC_TRANSFER.C;3:2097 1 SshFCTransfer (function name unavailable) Asserti 0 on failed: attrs->source_newline != ((void *) 0)  6 %TCPIP-F-SSH_FATAL, non-specific fatal error condition VMS1:SYSTEM> sftp user@node 
 sftp> verbose  sftp> cd PRIVATE/XYZ/UPLOAD  /PRIVATE/XYZ/UPLOAD  sftp> ls -l C SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:280: File is "raw", and it needs to be  parsed. D -rw-r--r--    1 667      503           951 Nov 10  2005 id_rsa_nldlc7 -rwxr-xr--    1 667      503           369 Nov 14  2005  id_rsa_1024_nldlc.pub D -rwxr-xr-x    1 501      501           139 Jul 24 11:42 ABC00006.LOG; drwxr-xr-x    2 667      503          4096 Jul 24 13:59 OP1 ; drwxr-xr-x    2 667      503          4096 Jul 21 13:42 OP2 C SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:215: Received error `End of file' (1).  sftp> mget ABC00006.LOG C SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:280: File is "raw", and it needs to be  parsed. ; SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:2051: File list has 2 files. 7 SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:462: Next source file is " PRIVATE/NLLC/UPLOAD/ABC00006.LOG .@ SshFCTransferCore/SSHFC_TRCORE.C:356: Starting transfer for file( ABC00006.LOG, destination ./ABC00006.LOGG ABC00006.LOG                    |   139B |   0.1 kB/s | TOC: 00:00:01 |  100%6 SshFCTransferCore/SSHFC_TRCORE.C:814: Writer finished.F SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:1575: Destination file is not a regular file, not changing attributes.G SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:1641: Finished with file ./ABC00006.LOG.  sftp> get ABC00006.LOGC SshFCRecurse/SSHFC_RECURSE.C:280: File is "raw", and it needs to be  parsed. ; SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:2051: File list has 2 files. 7 SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:462: Next source file is " PRIVATE/NLLC/UPLOAD/ABC00006.LOG .@ SshFCTransferCore/SSHFC_TRCORE.C:356: Starting transfer for file( ABC00006.LOG, destination ./ABC00006.LOGG ABC00006.LOG                    |   139B |   0.1 kB/s | TOC: 00:00:01 |  100%6 SshFCTransferCore/SSHFC_TRCORE.C:814: Writer finished.F SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:1575: Destination file is not a regular file, not changing attributes.G SshFCTransfer/SSHFC_TRANSFER.C:1641: Finished with file ./ABC00006.LOG. 
 sftp> exit ssh_pipe_stream_destroy : SshReadLine/SSHREADLINE.C:3717: Uninitializing ReadLine...   VMS1:SYSTEM> ucx sh ver   ;   HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 5 3   on a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.3-2    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 08:10:34 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayC Message-ID: <1153840234.720634.292470@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Andrew wrote:  > E > > So who would Digital have sold FAB capacity to? They had no track J > > record of working with FABless vendors like Sun and they were in a lotH > > of instances major competitors for the companies who might have been) > > target customers to use Digitals FAB.  >  > AMD wanted to use the FAB.  E AMD wanted to use the FAB but didn't. Now unless you know why and you C don't the options are they couldn't do a deal with Digital, Digital @ wouldn't do a deal with them, they got another better offer etc.  F But you don't know the answer so describing my post as bullshit FUD is painfull but only for you.   > H > As for the rest of your bullshit FUD, Alpha didn't need to be acceptedM > by any other vendors.  The VMS and Tru64 business was supporting it nicely.  >   D So why did Digital go out of their way to try to attract design winsD onto Alpha. Why did they tout the AlphaPC surely even Digital didn'tG think that they would clean up and become the only manufacturer of PC's 
 worldwide.  F The reality is that the whole Alpha plan was a clone of the MIPS/SPARCA plans, PC's, Workstations, Small, Medium and Large Servers, Super F Computers lots of vendors in other words a life changing event for the computer market.  F And no the Tru64 and OpenVMS businesses were not supporting it nicely,@ at $400-$500 million dollars per new chip design and $2+ billionF dollars for the FAB plus ongoing running costs itis doubtfull that theA Tru64 and OpenVMS even supported the development and build of the C processors let alone support the rest of the ecosystem required for < Alpha, software, interconnects and platforms, marketing, ISV development etc.  I > Note that IBM doesn't have a bunch of vendors using Power, but they are H > doing well.  The FAB may not be profitable, but a vendor that can do aH > complete solution has the flexibility that allows for overall profits. >   D Ahh the much missused IBM example and not even accurate at that. IBME was in fact quite sucessfull at attracting other vendors to use POWER @ or POWER variants. And while Apple has deserted for Intel IBM isD happily building the POWER based processor for the xbox 360 in their! Fishkill FAB. Heard of the xbox ?   F But the IBM example would have been a bad one anyway, IBM are and wereG a much bigger company than Digital, appart from design wins outside IBM = POWER is a shared platform for AS400/RS6000 (p and i Series).    Regards  Andrew Harrison  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 08:46:25 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayB Message-ID: <1153842385.478748.171020@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Andrew wrote: 3 > > So who would Digital have sold FAB capacity to?  > J > I have been told some time ago that AMD had been very interestedbut thatI > Digital intentionally made it diffidult for AMD to buy FAB capacity for G > Hudson. In the end, DEC got its hands on the Arm, built StrongArm and H > used Hudson to build those chips. But that wasn't anywhere near enough9 > to fill the shoes that Alpha had been expected to fill.  > J > > That and the rather grandiose plans for Alpha meant that Palmer had toD > > reserve FAB capacity ofr Alpha. Its rather tricky just to turn aK > > contracted FAB run off in order to make your own units if demand rises.  > H > Palmer took steps to prevent Alpha from growing, such as preventing itH > from competing against Wintel. And by 1996, Palmer was already talkingH > to Pfeiffer about Compa buying Digital and Pfeiffer made it very clearH > that he wasn't interested in the FAB, so from that point on, there was9 > no point in trying to fix Hudson to get more customers.  >   E "Competing with Wintel" why would you think that Alpha was ever going G to manage that ? It was never going to hit the price points required to > compete with x86. The cheapest Alpha PC's cost $1500 and had aA miniscule software portfolio compared with x86 or for that matter E SPARC. Sun at least managed to build a sub $1000 workstation and make E money with it. Yes it picked up a number of vendors who were prepared F to develop Alpha PC's but I doubt if you can remember the names of any6 of them and even if you do everyone else will say who.    K > > inherited was the decision to FAB Alpha in house. The cost of designing J > > Alpha and then fabricating Alpha proved to be business decisions which > > bled Digital dry.  > G > Yes and no. It was the mismanagement and refusal to take on more work H > which mad Husdon bleed money profusely. And Palmer hid that fact for aE > very long time. I think it was Terry Shannon who got the scoop that J > Hudson had been bleeding far more money than had been previously though,G > and this was at the time Digital donated Hudson as a gift to Intel to 7 > thank Intel for stealing Alpha intellectual property.  >   D Hang on Palmer started talking to Compaq in 1996 and some time afterC Palmer aledgedly started running down the FAB because Compaq didn't  want it.  F Ok well aside from the rather dubious business logic that implies thatD this course of action was a good move if Palmer wanted to unload the- FAB lets examine what happened prior to 1996.   E Are you now suggesting that Palmer somehow guessed that  Compaq would B not want the FAB and started running it down before even beginning negociations with Compaq.   ; JF I can hear the thud, thud, thud of the black helicopters C approaching, sorry I forgot black helicopters are of course silent.   @ > Note that Digital made a lot of its own chips. And had DigitalJ > succesfully marketed its FAB capabilities and made it easy for others to4 > use it, it might have been a succesful enterprise. > C > > By the time Alpha arrived many of the RISC processors Alpha was G > > designed to compete against were in their 2 and or third iteration. J > > MIPS had gone from R2000 to R3000 to R4000. Sun had gone from SPARC v7 > > to SPARC v8 etc. > I > Yes, but Alpha was designed from scratch with new knowldge/technologies I > that allowed it to scale much higher than existing risc processors. And J > consider that when Alpha came out, HP pissed in its pants and decided toF > abandon its own PA-Risc and beg Intel to design something that could > compete against Alpha. >   D Really, or do you actually mean that Alpha design started latter andE therefore benefited from the general developments in architecture and  FAB technology.   @ > Alpha may have been a late comer to the RISC party, but it wasD > definitely a class above the rest from a technology point of view. >   G Really, PA-RISC always gave it a serious run for its money on a per CPU C basis and SPARC generally trashed it on throughput because Sun were B better at designing Server platforms tham Digital. Compare the SunD E10000, E6500, E4500 with the best Digital could produce at the timeA the TurboLaser and guess what the TurboLaser was only comfortable  competing with the E4500.   H > > You have to remember that the early 1990's was an period where AlphaH > > was one of a number of processor architectures trying to unseat x86. > G > It can be argued that Alpha succeeded. Consider the Pentium III which ) > contains a lot of "Alpha Inside"... :-)  >   G Akkk, Alpha is a success because Intel nicked a few bits of Alpha IP in G the Pentium III, hardly the only success there was that it gave Digital / the lever to get the Hudson FAB off their back.   J > > The reality is that whatever Palmer did he started from the standpoint8 > > of having been delt a really terrible hand of cards. > G > Loy Gerstner inherited an IBM that was months away from bankrupcy and H > processes already begun to sell parts of IBM off to pay the creditors.J > He got an IBM in a much worse condition than Palmer got Digital.  PalmerE > didn't inherit a healthy Digital. But he worsoned the situation BIG  > TIME.   C IBM didn't have a rotten product strategy they just hadn't executed > very well and they had got very used to being awash with cash.   Regards  Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:08:34 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <44C65010.F536B57E@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: G > "Competing with Wintel" why would you think that Alpha was ever going I > to manage that ? It was never going to hit the price points required to 7 > compete with x86. The cheapest Alpha PC's cost $1500    D Exactly. Digital had a policy of not selling Alpha PCs competitivelyE because of a "we can't compete with outselves" situation when Digital E setup its own Wintel division. Where there is a will, there is a way, F and Digital could have made cheap alpha-based PCs if it had wanted to.G (ok, perhaps not as cheap as a Dell machine, but definitely competitive # in the mid to high end desktop PC).   F > Hang on Palmer started talking to Compaq in 1996 and some time afterE > Palmer aledgedly started running down the FAB because Compaq didn't 
 > want it.  G > Are you now suggesting that Palmer somehow guessed that  Compaq would D > not want the FAB and started running it down before even beginning > negociations with Compaq.     F Palmer did not guess. He was told by Pfeiffer. On the Compaq announcedF it was buying Digital, Palmer appeared on CNN and bragged about havingF begin negotiations 3 years earlier with Pfeiffer who gave him guidanceG on what portions of the business Compaq was interested in. Prior to the F downsizing of Digital by Palmer, Digital was too big a fish for CompaqH to swallow. The FAB is but only one business that Palmer got rid of. theF DLT drives is another, the disk drives another, the networking gear is another and on and on and on.   F Furthermore, when you look at Palmer's deals with Microsoft to abandonG his own software to adopt MS software and train the support technicians @ on MS software, this was also to give value to the whole supportG business with the capability of worldwide support of wintel crap. Why ? D Because in the end, that is what Compaq was interested in. So PalmerH converted the support infrastructure into one which could support wintel, crap so that it would be of value to Compaq.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 10:24:58 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayC Message-ID: <1153848298.663133.146430@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote:H > While the rest of your drivel isn't worth responding to yet again, nowE > that you've finally gotten pinned down to some specific, verifiable   > statements I'll address those:  E Really. Or shoudl it be having lost the first 3/4 of the argument you E would now like to concentrate on something you havn't actually argued  about yet and lost.    Nice try Bill. >  > Andrew wrote:  > > Bill Todd wrote: >  > ...  >  >    In the real world, L > >> Alpha and Tru64 indeed struggled to reestablish credibility in the UnixH > >> market, but the struggle (as I've noted before - but which you keepK > >> ignoring because it proves inconvenient to your myth) was an *upward*, K > >> not a *downward*, struggle.  Tru64 was growing robustly during the two L > >> years that preceded the Alphacide (and possibly earlier, though I don'tI > >> happen to have information about that period) and had already clawed I > >> back a respectable chunk of the market; VMS was growing (albeit much K > >> more slowly) during a similar period; and the combination of Alpha and H > >> its prime OSs was one of the most profitable franchises (along withL > >> service and storage) that Compaq owned - *far* more profitable than its2 > >> faltering (at least profit-wise) PC business. > >> > > / > > Its an interesting distortion of the facts.  > @ > It's certainly a *statement* of the facts, but you have yet to/ > demonstrate any hint of *distortion* of them.  >  >   In reality Alpha got to G > > about 12% server market share in the early nineties but by 1998 had  > > shrunk to 5-6%.  > G > Since I don't have numbers for those years at my fingertips, let's at # > least provisionally accept yours.  >   < Do you really want to do this Bill, if you do you remove any? opportunity to come back on the earlier part of the discussion.   % Ohh well I guess you did that anyway.   I > Now, we know that Tru64 took a long time to take off due to the earlier C > missteps with the temporary Ultrix flirtation with MIPS, so Tru64 4 > couldn't have contributed to that alleged decline. >   F How so ? Tru64 revenues actually started failrly strongly, most of theD people attracted to Alpha for its 64bit support and high performance came from outside VMS land.   H > And we know about the infamous 'affinity' program that urged customersE > to abandon VMS for NT on Alpha (in fact, it was one of the issues I 5 > specifically called out in the current discussion).  > G > So we have a rather clear culprit for a decline in VMS sales on Alpha E > (the only major Alpha sales going on at that time) during the exact B > period that you describe without having to resort to the kind ofG > vigorous hand-waving that you've been so unconvincingly indulging in.  > @ I am confused or rather you seem to be, of had you forgotten theD innumerable postings on your part citing the strength of the OpenVMSD market. You can't have it both ways Bill however much you might want to.    > > So yes it was going back up  > I > Indeed, and at a rather dramatic rate in the Unix part of the business. I >   You have yet to grapple with that inconvenient aspect of your alleged H > 'decline', so that seems to be the appropriate issue to confront next. >   F Well dramatic is relative, the fact was that it had got very low, %4.7G market share in one quarter so even a single digit gain in market share  looked wonderfull.   >   but it still hadn't got G > > back to earlier heights. Alpha also had 10% share of the worksation 6 > > market in the early nineties this never recovered. > H > Funny how *all* RISCs lost workstation ground to x86 around that time,F > isn't it?  MIPS was probably even worse off, given that this was theJ > period when SGI decided publicly that NT was its workstation future (andI > thereby killed off its own workstation business rather decisively).  So I > no Alpha 'decline' relative to the rest of the RISC world seems evident  > here, either.  > F Sort of, SPARC held up pretty well, HP-PA did ok, RS/6000 and MIPS didC less well. You also have to conclude that Alpha performed worst not D just because it saw the largest fall but also because it representedE the biggest failure of a key vendor strategy or had you forgotten the ) heady days of 1996-1997 and the Alpha PC.    Regards  Andrew   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 11:35:04 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4imdv8F4ckteU1@individual.net>   / In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>, + 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:  > M > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ? @ > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.? > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?   F Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on theG other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  Although H I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it" was more like horse**** than gold.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:16:45 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS C Message-ID: <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:1 > In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>, - > 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:  > > O > > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ? B > > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.A > > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?  >   ? California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly with G location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north 8 to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados!   > H > Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on theI > other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  Although J > I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it$ > was more like horse**** than gold. >   : Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State".   Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP   and the first hit will be   5 http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm      ... Check it out ...     > bill   AEF    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 12:28:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4imh48F4ec6qU1@individual.net>   C In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, ' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>,. >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes: >> >P >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ?C >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top. B >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ? >> > A > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly with I > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north : > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados! >  >>I >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on the J >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  AlthoughK >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it % >> was more like horse**** than gold.  >> > < > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State". >   > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP >  > and the first hit will be  > 7 > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm  >  >  > ... Check it out ...  F I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in" Florida than I do in California.  ? What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:42:56 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com # Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS C Message-ID: <1153831376.395913.204380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G California has power problems because they would rather sit in the dark D with the snails and the frogs then build power plants and refineries ...   C And then when they have to buy their power on the market for higher ? prices, they wine and moan that they are getting ripped off ...    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:39:37 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS B Message-ID: <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, ) > 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:4 > >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>,0 > >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes: > >> >R > >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ?E > >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top. D > >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ? > >> > > C > > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly with K > > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north < > > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados! > >  > >>K > >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on the L > >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  AlthoughM > >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it ' > >> was more like horse**** than gold.  > >> > > > > > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State". > > " > > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP > >  > > and the first hit will be  > > 9 > > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm  > >  > >  > > ... Check it out ... > H > I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in" > Florida than I do in California.A > What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans.   G It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is that D the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher asF you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared to more northern locations.    >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:34:17 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS 9 Message-ID: <Pq2dnWkTBeT3gVvZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Michael Kraemer wrote: > JF Mezei schrieb: H >> There have been a series of power outages in Kalifornia over th elastI >> few days. One of them took out all of "myspace.com", a supposedly very I >> popular "social networking" web site (isn't that just a glorified term  >> for a "forum" ?)  >> >>K >> This would be THE time to put out full page ads in Kalifornia newspapers J >> telling the world about VMS being able to form clusters whose nodes areE >> up to <real value> hundreds of kilometres apart, thus allowing the H >> cluster and service to survive major disaster or power outage in one  >> area. >> >>G >> Just another missed opportunity for VMS becauise everyone here knows  >> that HP wouldn't market VMS.  > M > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ?   @ It won't do anything for the power outages.  If the was another # location, the site could remain up.   @ > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.? > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?    There is some of this.  = > BTW, if everything around me is melting away, uninterrupted 7 > internet access is the last thing I would care about.   ? It's my understanding that the site is used outside California.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 13:39:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4iml8iF4hkfsU1@individual.net>   B In article <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,* >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: 5 >> >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>, 1 >> >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:  >> >> > S >> >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ? F >> >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.E >> >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?  >> >>  >> >D >> > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly withL >> > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north= >> > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados!  >> > >> >> L >> >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on theM >> >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  Although N >> >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it( >> >> was more like horse**** than gold. >> >>  >> >? >> > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State".  >> ># >> > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP  >> > >> > and the first hit will be >> >: >> > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm >> > >> > >> > ... Check it out ...  >>I >> I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in # >> Florida than I do in California. B >> What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans. > I > It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is that F > the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher asH > you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared > to more northern locations.  >   D Making southern Texas up to 2 degrees of latitude better.  And wholeD bunches of places outside the US even better.  So, what was it about! Florida that makes this valuable?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 06:58:22 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS C Message-ID: <1153835901.961688.192990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > In article <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,) > 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > >> In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,, > >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: 7 > >> >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>, 3 > >> >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes: 	 > >> >> > U > >> >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ? H > >> >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.G > >> >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?  > >> >>  > >> >F > >> > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly withN > >> > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north? > >> > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados!  > >> > > >> >> N > >> >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on theO > >> >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  Although P > >> >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it* > >> >> was more like horse**** than gold. > >> >>  > >> >A > >> > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State".  > >> >% > >> > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP  > >> >  > >> > and the first hit will be > >> >< > >> > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm > >> > > >> > > >> > ... Check it out ...  > >>K > >> I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in % > >> Florida than I do in California. D > >> What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans. > > K > > It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is that H > > the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher asJ > > you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared > > to more northern locations.  > >  > F > Making southern Texas up to 2 degrees of latitude better.  And wholeF > bunches of places outside the US even better.  So, what was it about# > Florida that makes this valuable?   9 I said it was a good place, not the best. There are other B considerations. The earth rotates to the east, so most rockets areF launched eastward, and that gives you the entire Atlantic Ocean if the: rocket has a problem and crashes. There are probably otherF considerations. Also, FL is part of the 48 contiguous states and partsF can be shipped by land. Outside the US? Are you saying we should lease+ land in another country for a space center?    >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   AEF    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 14:23:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4imnrkF4c1j6U1@individual.net>   C In article <1153835901.961688.192990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:E >> In article <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, * >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >> > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: I >> >> In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, - >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:8 >> >> >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>,4 >> >> >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:
 >> >> >> >V >> >> >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ?I >> >> >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top. H >> >> >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ? >> >> >> >> >> > G >> >> > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly with O >> >> > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north @ >> >> > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados! >> >> >  >> >> >>O >> >> >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on the P >> >> >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  AlthoughQ >> >> >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it + >> >> >> was more like horse**** than gold.  >> >> >> >> >> > B >> >> > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State". >> >> > & >> >> > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP >> >> > ! >> >> > and the first hit will be  >> >> > = >> >> > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm  >> >> >  >> >> >  >> >> > ... Check it out ... >> >> L >> >> I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in& >> >> Florida than I do in California.E >> >> What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans.  >> >L >> > It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is thatI >> > the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher as K >> > you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared   >> > to more northern locations. >> > >>G >> Making southern Texas up to 2 degrees of latitude better.  And whole G >> bunches of places outside the US even better.  So, what was it about $ >> Florida that makes this valuable? > ; > I said it was a good place, not the best. There are other D > considerations. The earth rotates to the east, so most rockets areH > launched eastward, and that gives you the entire Atlantic Ocean if the$ > rocket has a problem and crashes.   D Florida has The Bahamas right in the line of fire but we haven't hitF them yet.  :-)  Texas has quite a bit more water before you get to any% islands and then it's just Cuba.  :-)   < >                                   There are probably otherH > considerations. Also, FL is part of the 48 contiguous states and parts > can be shipped by land.   $ Last time I heard, so was Texas. :-)  H >                         Outside the US? Are you saying we should lease- > land in another country for a space center?   E Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt.   H Or we could just (finally) let the business that paid for licenses do it  and stop wasting taxpayer money.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:31:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS ) Message-ID: <op.tc81atdrzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:23:49 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  G > Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt.   D I worked at ESA about the time Kourou was established, and IIRC they bought the land.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 14:53:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4impk4F4bp74U1@individual.net>   ) In article <op.tc81atdrzgicya@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:23:49 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   > wrote: > H >> Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt. > F > I worked at ESA about the time Kourou was established, and IIRC they > bought the land.  C Bought, leased, what's the difference.  It isn't in Europe.  So the F argument that the US needs to launch from within its borders is prettyF silly if there are better places to do it from.  Wonder where LockheedE Martin (actually, the license was for Martin Marietta which shows how E long ago commercialization was supposed to happen) would locate their @ facility if they didn't have unfair competition preventing them?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 14:56:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4impp6F4bp74U2@individual.net>   , In article <ea5aoj$jri$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>,- 	"Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:  > T > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:op.tc81atdrzgicya@hyrrokkin... > I >>> Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt.  >>G >> I worked at ESA about the time Kourou was established, and IIRC they  >> bought the land.  > K > The French treat their overseas territories differently from most states, J > so it's officially considered part of France, as I understand it. So ESAA > launch from that part of Europe that happens to be in America.     E We do the same, or did you think Hawaii and Alaska weren't considered  part of the US?    :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 08:02:42 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS C Message-ID: <1153839762.030343.247620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > In article <1153835901.961688.192990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ) > 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G > >> In article <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, , > >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >> > > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: K > >> >> In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, / > >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:   > >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:: > >> >> >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>,6 > >> >> >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes: > >> >> >> >X > >> >> >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ?K > >> >> >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top. J > >> >> >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?
 > >> >> >>	 > >> >> > I > >> >> > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly with Q > >> >> > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the north B > >> >> > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados!	 > >> >> > 
 > >> >> >>Q > >> >> >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on the R > >> >> >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  AlthoughS > >> >> >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it - > >> >> >> was more like horse**** than gold. 
 > >> >> >>	 > >> >> > D > >> >> > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State".	 > >> >> > ( > >> >> > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP	 > >> >> > # > >> >> > and the first hit will be 	 > >> >> > ? > >> >> > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm 	 > >> >> > 	 > >> >> >  > >> >> > ... Check it out ... > >> >> N > >> >> I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in( > >> >> Florida than I do in California.G > >> >> What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans.  > >> >N > >> > It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is thatK > >> > the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher as M > >> > you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared " > >> > to more northern locations. > >> > > >>I > >> Making southern Texas up to 2 degrees of latitude better.  And whole I > >> bunches of places outside the US even better.  So, what was it about & > >> Florida that makes this valuable? > > = > > I said it was a good place, not the best. There are other F > > considerations. The earth rotates to the east, so most rockets areJ > > launched eastward, and that gives you the entire Atlantic Ocean if the% > > rocket has a problem and crashes.  > F > Florida has The Bahamas right in the line of fire but we haven't hitH > them yet.  :-)  Texas has quite a bit more water before you get to any' > islands and then it's just Cuba.  :-)   D Not all rockets go exactly East. Most likely they go a little to theD south. (You can't orbit above a parallel of latitude unless it's the	 equator.)  > > > >                                   There are probably otherJ > > considerations. Also, FL is part of the 48 contiguous states and parts > > can be shipped by land.  > & > Last time I heard, so was Texas. :-)  B I meant w.r.t. outside the U.S. Even so, I'm sure there were otherB considerations. Maybe it better to chose FL over TX because it wasE cheaper to do it in FL (unless you prefer to waste taxpayer money :-)    > J > >                         Outside the US? Are you saying we should lease/ > > land in another country for a space center?  > G > Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt.   D Probably not worth the difference. As you approach the equator, eachG degree of latitude gains you less and less. (speed = equatorial speed * F cos(latitude)) So the difference between FL and the Equator may not be? worth the trouble. (Unless you want to waste taxpayer money :-)    > J > Or we could just (finally) let the business that paid for licenses do it" > and stop wasting taxpayer money.  ? What business? What licenses? Could you be a little more vague?    >  > bill   AEF    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 15:58:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS + Message-ID: <4imtdnF4ea4tU1@individual.net>   C In article <1153839762.030343.247620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> In article <1153835901.961688.192990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,* >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >> > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: H >> >> In article <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,- >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >> >> >  >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:L >> >> >> In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,0 >> >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:! >> >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: ; >> >> >> >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>, 7 >> >> >> >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes: 
 >> >> >> >> > Y >> >> >> >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ? L >> >> >> >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.K >> >> >> >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ?  >> >> >> >> 
 >> >> >> >J >> >> >> > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly withR >> >> >> > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the northC >> >> >> > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados! 
 >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> R >> >> >> >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on theS >> >> >> >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  Although T >> >> >> >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it. >> >> >> >> was more like horse**** than gold. >> >> >> >> 
 >> >> >> >E >> >> >> > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State". 
 >> >> >> >) >> >> >> > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP 
 >> >> >> >$ >> >> >> > and the first hit will be
 >> >> >> >@ >> >> >> > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm
 >> >> >> >
 >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ... Check it out ...  >> >> >>O >> >> >> I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in ) >> >> >> Florida than I do in California. H >> >> >> What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans. >> >> > O >> >> > It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is that L >> >> > the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher asN >> >> > you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared# >> >> > to more northern locations.  >> >> >  >> >> J >> >> Making southern Texas up to 2 degrees of latitude better.  And wholeJ >> >> bunches of places outside the US even better.  So, what was it about' >> >> Florida that makes this valuable?  >> >> >> > I said it was a good place, not the best. There are otherG >> > considerations. The earth rotates to the east, so most rockets are K >> > launched eastward, and that gives you the entire Atlantic Ocean if the & >> > rocket has a problem and crashes. >>G >> Florida has The Bahamas right in the line of fire but we haven't hit I >> them yet.  :-)  Texas has quite a bit more water before you get to any ( >> islands and then it's just Cuba.  :-) > F > Not all rockets go exactly East. Most likely they go a little to theF > south. (You can't orbit above a parallel of latitude unless it's the > equator.)   F I never said they did.  But in every direction but West there is a lotE more open water off Brownsville. Texas than Cape Kennedy, Florida.  A G rocket launched from Cape Kenedy passes over more than a thousand miles  of occupied islands.   >>? >> >                                   There are probably other K >> > considerations. Also, FL is part of the 48 contiguous states and parts  >> > can be shipped by land. >>' >> Last time I heard, so was Texas. :-)  > D > I meant w.r.t. outside the U.S. Even so, I'm sure there were other > considerations.   C Yeah, most likely politics.  Which is another reason this should be * done by businesses and not the government.  D >                 Maybe it better to chose FL over TX because it wasG > cheaper to do it in FL (unless you prefer to waste taxpayer money :-)   C I would prefer if the government didn't spend any taxpayer money on F this in Florida or Texas, but originally you were touting some conceptD Florida being actually worth something.  You cited launching rocketsJ and I was just trying to point out it has no real advantage, even in that.   >  >>K >> >                         Outside the US? Are you saying we should lease 0 >> > land in another country for a space center? >>H >> Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt. > F > Probably not worth the difference. As you approach the equator, eachI > degree of latitude gains you less and less. (speed = equatorial speed * H > cos(latitude)) So the difference between FL and the Equator may not beA > worth the trouble. (Unless you want to waste taxpayer money :-)   G You brought up the relation to the equator.  I merely pointed out if it F really made a difference then Florida looses again.  Even if you don't leave the continental US.    >  >>K >> Or we could just (finally) let the business that paid for licenses do it # >> and stop wasting taxpayer money.  > A > What business? What licenses? Could you be a little more vague?   G Vague?  I merely mentioned old news.  The US Government sold license to K operate commercial space operations (including launches) to major companies A decades ago.  Martin Marietta got one of the first.  But then the G govenrment never stepped out of the picture.  Starting a new commercial D venture is hard enough without having to compete with someone who isH subsidizing their operation by picking your potential customers pockets.K On a level playing field NASA would be defunct, the Shuttle would have been K replaced a decade ago (maybe even before the first disaster) and who knows,  we might already be on Mars.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:22:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS , Message-ID: <44C6536E.79CEDC0C@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > I never said they did.  But in every direction but West there is a lotG > more open water off Brownsville. Texas than Cape Kennedy, Florida.  A I > rocket launched from Cape Kenedy passes over more than a thousand miles  > of occupied islands.  G Launching shuttle from KSC in florida restricts its direction of travel F to between due east (giving it a 28 inclination orbit) and north eastG (not sure what the limit is, but the station for instance is at a 51.6 G inclunation. The shutlle cannot launch south east because of cuba being E in the way (shuttle drops its rocket boosters 2 minutes after launch, I and in case of explosion, you don't want debris hitting populated areas).     = Russia launches its soyuz from Kazakstan. Kazakstan is now an > independant nation. But during breakup of soviet union, RussiaE negotiated a deal to keep jurisdiction over Baikonour launch complex. E This is landlocked. And Soyuz are also restricted in what orbits they H launch to because their trajectory must avoid certain areas with lots ofC population to the east. They are currently building a launch pad at F Kourou so they can launch heavier satellites to geo orbit. (this, withF cooperation from ESA).  Baikonour is roughly at 45 latitude, so there? is a big loss of payload capability if the craft wants to go to ! equatorial geo synchronous orbit.     E > Yeah, most likely politics.  Which is another reason this should be , > done by businesses and not the government.  @ NASA has not launched commercial satellites since the ChallengerC accident. This is done by Boeing and others (and remarkably, by the D russians who now launch plenty of western satellites with their more- cost effective little rocket that can: Soyuz.   F However, the USA government remains the biggest customer for satelliteH launches (weather, spy, GPS etc) and Boeing knows that and will milk theL government for every penny it can, just like it does for military contracts.  F > Florida being actually worth something.  You cited launching rocketsL > and I was just trying to point out it has no real advantage, even in that.  H Florida's weather is far from perfect for purposes of launching rockets.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 10:49:27 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: An opportunity for VMS C Message-ID: <1153849767.498195.214580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > In article <1153839762.030343.247620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ) > 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > >> In article <1153835901.961688.192990@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,, > >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >> > > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: J > >> >> In article <1153831177.496875.60510@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,/ > >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: 	 > >> >> >   > >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:N > >> >> >> In article <1153829805.302969.109720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,2 > >> >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:# > >> >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: = > >> >> >> >> In article <ea4gim$eai$01$1@news.t-online.com>, 9 > >> >> >> >> 	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:  > >> >> >> >> > [ > >> >> >> >> > And exactly how would that help to cure the reason for the power outages  ? N > >> >> >> >> > Stop wasting energy and/or put solar panels on every roof top.M > >> >> >> >> > California is supposed to be the "sunshine state", isn't it ? 
 > >> >> >> >>  > >> >> >> >L > >> >> >> > California has a HUGE range of weather that varies greatly withT > >> >> >> > location. Don't like the weather? Move 30 miles. From snow in the northE > >> >> >> > to Death Valley in the south. OK, not too many tornados!  > >> >> >> >
 > >> >> >> >> T > >> >> >> >> Not even close.  Florida is "The Sunshine State".  That's clean on theU > >> >> >> >> other side of the country.  California is "The Golden State".  Although V > >> >> >> >> I have to admit when I used to have to travel there on business a lot it0 > >> >> >> >> was more like horse**** than gold.
 > >> >> >> >>  > >> >> >> >G > >> >> >> > Speaking of FL, it should be called "The Lightning State".  > >> >> >> >+ > >> >> >> > Google LIGHTNING FREQUENCY MAP  > >> >> >> >& > >> >> >> > and the first hit will be > >> >> >> >B > >> >> >> > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >! > >> >> >> > ... Check it out ... 
 > >> >> >>Q > >> >> >> I can't speak for others, but personally, I have even less interest in + > >> >> >> Florida than I do in California. J > >> >> >> What are Florida's two biggest imports?  Old people and Cubans.	 > >> >> > Q > >> >> > It's a good place to launch rockets into space from. The reason is that N > >> >> > the tangential speed of the Earth due to its rotation gets higher asP > >> >> > you approach the Equator. And this extra speed saves you fuel compared% > >> >> > to more northern locations. 	 > >> >> >  > >> >> L > >> >> Making southern Texas up to 2 degrees of latitude better.  And wholeL > >> >> bunches of places outside the US even better.  So, what was it about) > >> >> Florida that makes this valuable?  > >> >@ > >> > I said it was a good place, not the best. There are otherI > >> > considerations. The earth rotates to the east, so most rockets are M > >> > launched eastward, and that gives you the entire Atlantic Ocean if the ( > >> > rocket has a problem and crashes. > >>I > >> Florida has The Bahamas right in the line of fire but we haven't hit K > >> them yet.  :-)  Texas has quite a bit more water before you get to any * > >> islands and then it's just Cuba.  :-) > > H > > Not all rockets go exactly East. Most likely they go a little to theH > > south. (You can't orbit above a parallel of latitude unless it's the
 > > equator.)  > H > I never said they did.  But in every direction but West there is a lotG > more open water off Brownsville. Texas than Cape Kennedy, Florida.  A I > rocket launched from Cape Kenedy passes over more than a thousand miles  > of occupied islands.  F Maybe there are other reasons to prefer FL. I don't know. I never saidA it was the best choice. I was merely pointing out that it has the E advantage of a small latitude. You seem to be aruging that there is a F better place. Fine, maybe there is. That doesn't in any way nullify my= point that Florida's small latitudes are an advantage for it.    >  > >>A > >> >                                   There are probably other M > >> > considerations. Also, FL is part of the 48 contiguous states and parts  > >> > can be shipped by land. > >>) > >> Last time I heard, so was Texas. :-)  > > F > > I meant w.r.t. outside the U.S. Even so, I'm sure there were other > > considerations.  > E > Yeah, most likely politics.  Which is another reason this should be , > done by businesses and not the government.  F Still doesn't nullify my point. And politics wasn't enough to place it# in a landlocked northerly latitude.    > F > >                 Maybe it better to chose FL over TX because it wasI > > cheaper to do it in FL (unless you prefer to waste taxpayer money :-)  > E > I would prefer if the government didn't spend any taxpayer money on H > this in Florida or Texas, but originally you were touting some conceptF > Florida being actually worth something.  You cited launching rocketsL > and I was just trying to point out it has no real advantage, even in that.  D It certainly has an advantage over most other states, which is all I/ was trying to point out. You asked, I answered.    >  > >  > >>M > >> >                         Outside the US? Are you saying we should lease 2 > >> > land in another country for a space center? > >>J > >> Why not?  Where does the ESA do their launching from?  Not Darmstadt. > > H > > Probably not worth the difference. As you approach the equator, eachK > > degree of latitude gains you less and less. (speed = equatorial speed * J > > cos(latitude)) So the difference between FL and the Equator may not beC > > worth the trouble. (Unless you want to waste taxpayer money :-)  > I > You brought up the relation to the equator.  I merely pointed out if it H > really made a difference then Florida looses again.  Even if you don't > leave the continental US.   & See above, and it's loses, not looses.   >  > >  > >>M > >> Or we could just (finally) let the business that paid for licenses do it % > >> and stop wasting taxpayer money.  > > C > > What business? What licenses? Could you be a little more vague?  > I > Vague?  I merely mentioned old news.  The US Government sold license to M > operate commercial space operations (including launches) to major companies C > decades ago.  Martin Marietta got one of the first.  But then the I > govenrment never stepped out of the picture.  Starting a new commercial   B Hmmmm. The gov't built it. What should they do? Give it away? ThatF would be more wasted taxpayer dollars! The International Space Station  -- now there's a waste of money!  F > venture is hard enough without having to compete with someone who isJ > subsidizing their operation by picking your potential customers pockets.M > On a level playing field NASA would be defunct, the Shuttle would have been M > replaced a decade ago (maybe even before the first disaster) and who knows,  > we might already be on Mars.   NASA defunct? speculation.  6 Shuttle replaced? Maybe, I don't know enough to judge.   Mars? Give me a break.   >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jul 2006 23:32:26 -0700 From: andrewr@cornasys.com" Subject: Oracle on OpenVMS ItaniumC Message-ID: <1153809146.011951.223780@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   C Can anyone advise which versions of Oracle are available on OpenVMS C Itanium? I need to migrate an application that runs Oracle 7.3.3 on ! OpenVMS Alpha to OpenVMS Itanium.    Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 00:41:35 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>& Subject: Re: Oracle on OpenVMS ItaniumC Message-ID: <1153813295.172083.156600@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   # looking at the VMS roadmap slide 25  www.hp.com/go/openvms/roadmaps  ' I see 10gR2 is due in August on Itanium    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 00:42:59 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: Oracle on OpenVMS ItaniumC Message-ID: <1153813379.780948.173220@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    andrewr@cornasys.com wrote:  > Hi,  > E > Can anyone advise which versions of Oracle are available on OpenVMS E > Itanium? I need to migrate an application that runs Oracle 7.3.3 on # > OpenVMS Alpha to OpenVMS Itanium.  >  > Thanks > Andrew  G None.  The first version of Oracle for VMS on IA64 will be Oracle 10gR2 G which is due out in August according to Oracle's Metalink support site. E  Past experience indicates this is optimistic so don't be suprised if G it's 30-90 days late.  There is some indication that an early adopter's G release (i.e. beta) is available of the 10gR2 client (not the RDBM)  if C you contact the right person at Oracle.  What public information is = available is summarized in this Oracle statement of direction ? http://www.oracle.com/partnerships/hw/VMS-directions-080305.pdf   ? If you have Oracle support all this information is available on D Metalink.  It has also been covered here as recently as 2 weeks ago.     John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:21:49 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> & Subject: RE: Oracle on OpenVMS ItaniumT Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684017D7094@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----= > From: andrewr@cornasys.com [mailto:andrewr@cornasys.com]=20  > Sent: July 25, 2006 2:32 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Oracle on OpenVMS Itanium >=20 > Hi,  >=20E > Can anyone advise which versions of Oracle are available on OpenVMS E > Itanium? I need to migrate an application that runs Oracle 7.3.3 on # > OpenVMS Alpha to OpenVMS Itanium.  >=20 > Thanks > Andrew >=20     Andrew,   G As a suggestion, you will likely want to upgrade Oracle to 10G on Alpha B first anyway (10G1 has been available on Alpha for awhile now).=20  F Upgrading Oracle on any platform from way back at 7.3.x version to 10G9 on the same platform is a large amount of work in itself.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:55:05 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver1 Message-ID: <Zopxg.1044$aJ1.990@news.cpqcorp.net>    Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote:  > > My DVDwrite program that just comes out as Version 6.0 burns1 > all media mentioned above (+DVD-RAM) and burns  E > Blue-Ray discs (BD-R,BD-RE) with a capacity of 23 GB under OpenVMS.   /    That's good.  Congratulations.  (Seriously.)   H    I do expect to see the COPY/RECORDABLE_MEDIA tool updated over time, D and would also tend to expect to see more formats officially added. F (The tool itself is at V1.0-1, BTW, and I expect to rev that as I add  drives and formats.)  G    I don't happen to have BD or HD drives (nor the requisite stacks of  G blank media for testing) around in my collection, or I'd be looking at  G those in more detail.  I do have DL, and DVD-R/RW drives around.  I've  B side-tested specific formats and configurations with a few select E third-party drives as well, though there will not likely be official   support for those.  D    There is no shortage of "fun" in this area of course, as the new D recording drives and even the firmware in current drives are moving H targets, and no two drives are seemingly ever alike, and the Alpha junk G I/O buses are themselves rather entertaining.  (Accordingly, there are  E diagnostics and supporting tools provided in the OpenVMS distro, and  E diagnostics within the recording tool itself.  There are also latent  E mechanisms that allow the tool to be more easily integrated into DCL  & procedures, such as DCL symbols, too.)   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:00:56 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. InfoserverB Message-ID: <1153836056.761453.76980@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:   > Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote: > @ > > My DVDwrite program that just comes out as Version 6.0 burns2 > > all media mentioned above (+DVD-RAM) and burnsG > > Blue-Ray discs (BD-R,BD-RE) with a capacity of 23 GB under OpenVMS.  > 1 >    That's good.  Congratulations.  (Seriously.)  > I >    I do expect to see the COPY/RECORDABLE_MEDIA tool updated over time, E > and would also tend to expect to see more formats officially added. G > (The tool itself is at V1.0-1, BTW, and I expect to rev that as I add  > drives and formats.) > H >    I don't happen to have BD or HD drives (nor the requisite stacks ofH > blank media for testing) around in my collection, or I'd be looking atH > those in more detail.  I do have DL, and DVD-R/RW drives around.  I'veC > side-tested specific formats and configurations with a few select F > third-party drives as well, though there will not likely be official > support for those. > E >    There is no shortage of "fun" in this area of course, as the new E > recording drives and even the firmware in current drives are moving I > targets, and no two drives are seemingly ever alike, and the Alpha junk H > I/O buses are themselves rather entertaining.  (Accordingly, there areF > diagnostics and supporting tools provided in the OpenVMS distro, andF > diagnostics within the recording tool itself.  There are also latentF > mechanisms that allow the tool to be more easily integrated into DCL( > procedures, such as DCL symbols, too.)  C Is it possible that a list of these successful (or unsuccessful for G that matter), but unsupported drives might end up in the OpenVMS FAQ at E some point?  Most specifically, in my case, the Plextor PX-716a which @ has been previously mentioned in these parts and of which I haveE aquired several copies.  They do boot VMS CDs quite nicely but I have F as yet to attempt any media creation (either CD or DVD) with them so IB am curious if they have been tried with the new V8.3 functionality   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:15:19 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver) Message-ID: <op.tc80jtiizgicya@hyrrokkin>   ? On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:00:56 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com  =   ! <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:   E > Is it possible that a list of these successful (or unsuccessful for I > that matter), but unsupported drives might end up in the OpenVMS FAQ a=  t G > some point?  Most specifically, in my case, the Plextor PX-716a which B > has been previously mentioned in these parts and of which I haveG > aquired several copies.  They do boot VMS CDs quite nicely but I have I > as yet to attempt any media creation (either CD or DVD) with them so I=   D > am curious if they have been tried with the new V8.3 functionality  G They work fine with 8.3, bought three off ebay for average price of $35  (new, in opened boxes)   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:59:29 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. InfoserverB Message-ID: <1153839569.273081.229170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Tom Linden wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:00:56 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com# > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:  > G > > Is it possible that a list of these successful (or unsuccessful for K > > that matter), but unsupported drives might end up in the OpenVMS FAQ at I > > some point?  Most specifically, in my case, the Plextor PX-716a which D > > has been previously mentioned in these parts and of which I haveI > > aquired several copies.  They do boot VMS CDs quite nicely but I have J > > as yet to attempt any media creation (either CD or DVD) with them so IF > > am curious if they have been tried with the new V8.3 functionality > I > They work fine with 8.3, bought three off ebay for average price of $35  > (new, in opened boxes)  , You have created CD and DVD media with them?  F You were lucky with those purchases.  Of late, it seems like they haveC been going for between $50-70.  Perhaps a run by the VMS people? :)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:15:21 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver1 Message-ID: <dAqxg.1048$xK1.870@news.cpqcorp.net>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:   E > Is it possible that a list of these successful (or unsuccessful for I > that matter), but unsupported drives might end up in the OpenVMS FAQ at G > some point?  Most specifically, in my case, the Plextor PX-716a which B > has been previously mentioned in these parts and of which I haveG > aquired several copies.  They do boot VMS CDs quite nicely but I have H > as yet to attempt any media creation (either CD or DVD) with them so ID > am curious if they have been tried with the new V8.3 functionality  H    These lists look simple, but the maintenance gets to be interesting. A   (This is why the lists found in the SPDs have basically mostly  I migrated to the per-platform product support matrices (databases) at the   external web site.)   H    The Plextor PX716A DVD drive is among the drives I presently have on = loan in a private collection.  It has been seen to work with  E COPY/RECORDABLE_MEDIA in the configurations I've tried and in use at  D least two of the V8.3 EFT sites that I am aware of, but it's not an  officially supported device.  E   I do have a side list of various third-party devices and of HP ISS  F group (non-enterprise) products I've seen or tried, but it's somewhat I volatile and not something I'd want to commit to.  Older (and officially  H unsupported) widgets tend to fall off the side list, for instance, when I they lack particular capabilities, or when the device itself fails.  And  C when a device screws up or has a recalcitrant interface, I tend to   replace it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:05:36 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. Infoserver) Message-ID: <op.tc82vmn6zgicya@hyrrokkin>   > On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:59:29 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com  ! <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:   . > You have created CD and DVD media with them?   Yes.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jul 2006 08:48:54 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: VaxStation vs. InfoserverA Message-ID: <1153842534.457299.78190@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Tom Linden wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:59:29 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com# > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:  > 0 > > You have created CD and DVD media with them? >  > Yes.   That's encouraging.  Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:56:22 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: XP1000 problem ) Message-ID: <op.tc8wv8t8zgicya@hyrrokkin>   @ On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:49:26 -0700, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:  $ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:C >> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:10:48 -0700, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:  > E >> > I have an XP1000 with PowerStorm 300 and U2W-SCSI that I just  =    >> received. >> > It I >> > powers on, and all 8 diagnostic LED's light up.  There are no beeps=  ,  =   >> andI >> > there is no video.  I've tried to connect a VT420 to the serial por=  ts
 >> > usingI >> > the cable for my PWS 433au, but have had no luck.  I've tried reset=  ing  >> > the% >> > CPU board, RAM, Video, and SCSI.  >> >* >> > Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> > >> > Thanks,	 >> > Zane  >> > >> >G >> What is the status of the LED's?  Did you reseat the daughter board?  > I > I power the system on, and all 8 diagnostic LED's come on and stay on.=    I 6 > actually meant daughter board when I said CPU board. > I > At this point I've a bad feeling that the system is dead.  Two people =   =   > have > said it's the main board.  > I > The only possitive thing about this is that I got a PowerStorm 300 and=    =    > KZPCA H > out of the deal.  The KZPCA is currently sitting in my PWS 433au in  =  
 > place ofF > its KZPBA.  I'll need to upgrade most of the drives in order to takeI > advantage faster controller, but I already have LVD replacement drives=    =    > (the > system disk is already LVD). >  > 		Zane > 3 all 8 led's on means trap occurred, cpu malfunction    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:01:32 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: XP1000 problem ) Message-ID: <op.tc85guzgzgicya@hyrrokkin>   C On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:16:22 -0700, DBT <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote:   6 > It could also be that it has the wrong CPU installed > I > Check to make sure that the DIP No.7 is in the correct position or not=    > pushed up or down properly > I > This is extremely common if someone has installed a new cpu daughter c=  ard 8 > IIRC - Up is for the 500Mhz and down is for the 667Mhz  I Now since a 667 will run at 500 but not necessarily the reverse, he shou=  ld/ ensure both sets of switches are set to 500  so    CPU switch  1  2  3  4 500         1  0  0  1 667         0  0  0  1  " MLB switch  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8" 500         0  1  0  0  1  0  0  0" 667         0  1  0  0  1  0  1  0  & If it then works at 500 he can try 667 > G > Also make sure that the CPU is seated well - the way to do this is by I > putting the system on it's side and pushing down on the CPU card's met=  al@ > brackets with the palms of both hands and using a little forceI > These systems are famous for "looking like" the cpu is in all the way =  but  > may nudge in a mm or so   I I can confirm this.  It is one of the more troublesome seating arrangeme=  nts  that I have encountered. > $ > That often will fix this issue too >  > David  >    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jul 2006 17:10:58 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: XP1000 problem , Message-ID: <ea5jb2025me@enews1.newsguy.com>  " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:E > On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:16:22 -0700, DBT <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote:   8 > > It could also be that it has the wrong CPU installed > > J > > Check to make sure that the DIP No.7 is in the correct position or not > > pushed up or down properly > > M > > This is extremely common if someone has installed a new cpu daughter card : > > IIRC - Up is for the 500Mhz and down is for the 667Mhz  L > Now since a 667 will run at 500 but not necessarily the reverse, he should1 > ensure both sets of switches are set to 500  so    > CPU switch  1  2  3  4 > 500         1  0  0  1 > 667         0  0  0  1  $ > MLB switch  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8$ > 500         0  1  0  0  1  0  0  0$ > 667         0  1  0  0  1  0  1  0  ( > If it then works at 500 he can try 667  G Oh, that would be interesting!  I'll give this a try tonight when I get  home.  Thanks for the info!   I > > Also make sure that the CPU is seated well - the way to do this is by L > > putting the system on it's side and pushing down on the CPU card's metalB > > brackets with the palms of both hands and using a little forceM > > These systems are famous for "looking like" the cpu is in all the way but  > > may nudge in a mm or so   M > I can confirm this.  It is one of the more troublesome seating arrangements  > that I have encountered. > > & > > That often will fix this issue too  F This is a most "interesting" problem.  I ran into this yesterday whileH trying to reseat everything.  I didn't have it fully in and suddenly theH system wouldn't power on at all, once I got it fully pushed in, it wouldK power up like "normal" (aka power on but not work).  I'm fairly certain the - card is well seated and won't go any further.    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:44:26 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: XP1000 problem ) Message-ID: <op.tc898csizgicya@hyrrokkin>   @ On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:10:58 -0700, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:  $ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:F >> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:16:22 -0700, DBT <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote: > 9 >> > It could also be that it has the wrong CPU installed  >> >I >> > Check to make sure that the DIP No.7 is in the correct position or =  not  >> > pushed up or down properly  >> >I >> > This is extremely common if someone has installed a new cpu daughte=  r  =   >> card ; >> > IIRC - Up is for the 500Mhz and down is for the 667Mhz  > I >> Now since a 667 will run at 500 but not necessarily the reverse, he  =   	 >> should 2 >> ensure both sets of switches are set to 500  so >  >> CPU switch  1  2  3  4  >> 500         1  0  0  1  >> 667         0  0  0  1  > % >> MLB switch  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 % >> 500         0  1  0  0  1  0  0  0 % >> 667         0  1  0  0  1  0  1  0  > ) >> If it then works at 500 he can try 667  > I > Oh, that would be interesting!  I'll give this a try tonight when I ge=  t  > home.  Thanks for the info!   I I have heard (forget where) that if the CPU module is made by IBM rather=   I than Motorola you may be able to clock it at 667  (The IBM module has pa=  rt number ending with -03)  > I >> > Also make sure that the CPU is seated well - the way to do this is =  byI >> > putting the system on it's side and pushing down on the CPU card's =   =   >> metalC >> > brackets with the palms of both hands and using a little force I >> > These systems are famous for "looking like" the cpu is in all the w=  ay  =    >> but >> > may nudge in a mm or so > D >> I can confirm this.  It is one of the more troublesome seating  =   >> arrangements  >> that I have encountered.  >> >' >> > That often will fix this issue too  > I > This is a most "interesting" problem.  I ran into this yesterday while=   I > trying to reseat everything.  I didn't have it fully in and suddenly t=  heI > system wouldn't power on at all, once I got it fully pushed in, it wou=  ldI > power up like "normal" (aka power on but not work).  I'm fairly certai=  n  =   > the / > card is well seated and won't go any further.  >  > 		Zane >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.411 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      o	ҏ}$Ur<ϔgڐ?~J=H
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