1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 01 Jun 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 302       Contents: Re: 2 Nameservers on 1 node  Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.0  Re: DCL: IF and .AND. logic & Re: Error installing VMS732_PCSI-V0300& Re: Error installing VMS732_PCSI-V0300& Re: Error installing VMS732_PCSI-V0300" Re: Fixing a Corrupt PCSI Database" Re: Fixing a Corrupt PCSI Database) Re: How to do automated email proccessing A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?  Re: MIME bug: escaped filenames + Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233. / Re: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233. / Re: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233. / New OpenVMS Application Programming Publication 3 Re: New OpenVMS Application Programming Publication  RSYNC or equivalent For VAX/VMS  RSYNC or equivalent For VAX/VMS 0 Re: speeding up LAVC with switch instead of hub? Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 13:11:27 -0700 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>$ Subject: Re: 2 Nameservers on 1 node0 Message-ID: <Lpednec8fN_TZeDZRVn-jA@comcast.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:   (snip)   >  All the systemsE > have (internal) 10.0.0.x addresses, so I don't really care what the J > outside world learns about them, as they're generally not reachable from > the outside world.  D Some consider keeping them quiet for security reasons, though I haveF to agree it can't matter much.  You could also have nameserver entries for machines that didn't exist!   D >    The name server for antinode.org ("alp" again) is configured toD > resolve "alp" to the external address, and "alp-l" to the internalH > address, so I can get to it by the "alp-l" name from inside.  And if IF > use the external name from inside (to one of the NAT/PAT ports), theH > router directs the traffic to the internal address, so what do I care?  D Not all NAT routers will do that, and if they do it might be slower.  H >    Plus, on ALP itself, the local hosts data base has an entry for ALPH > with the local address, so "telnet alp" from alp goes to 10.0.0.9, not > 209.98.249.184.   J >    Maybe I missed something in the original posting, but I don't see the
 > problem.  C The problem is more significant for a large company with many users  inside and out.    -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:18:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.0, Message-ID: <447E3259.D538198E@teksavvy.com>   George Cook wrote:G > Did you install the CERT.PEM file into the appropriate SSL directory?   H That was it. I found the file, moved it to the appropriate SSL directoryG and not only did the warning about self signed go away, but Mosaic also 8 no longer crashed displaying that poorly formatted page.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 22:23:14 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> $ Subject: Re: DCL: IF and .AND. logic9 Message-ID: <xJudnbdQ_asv0-PZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Doug Phillips wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >> Michael Unger wrote: . >>> On 2006-05-30 18:47, "Hoff Hoffman" wrote: >>> 
 >>>> [...] >>>>L >>>>    Run-time computed goto operations -- one of the reasons why it wouldI >>>> be comparatively "fun" to write a compiler for DCL -- are available:  >>>> >>>>    $ GOTO LABEL_'severity' G >>> I don't like "GOTO" at all -- it is much simpler to "go back" using M >>> "GOSUB" and "RETURN" or "CALL" and "EXIT" (or even "EXIT <status-value>".  >>> 
 >>>> [...] >>> Michael  >>> K >> And next we'll have someone wanting to get rid of the BRANCH instruction  >> in assembler. >> > D > Uh Oh. I smell another religious war, and here I was just about to > GOSUB lunch ;-)  >   -  From which I assume you plan to RETURN.  :-)   E The point is, any instruction can be misused.  Don't blame GOTO when  G some idiot uses it to write practically unreadable code.  If there was  . no GOTO, he'd find some other way to screw up.  E I knew a guy that was so intent on writing 'structured' code that he  . used GOSUB to GOTO the exit part of a program.  E And anybody that has written any assembler code understands that the  ? various forms of BRANCH is how it's all done regardless of HLL   implementations.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 10:44:10 -0700# From: "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com> / Subject: Re: Error installing VMS732_PCSI-V0300 C Message-ID: <1149097450.372922.236900@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:   < >   As an immediate test of this, you can issue the command:  8 >    SET COMMAND/TABLES=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE  0 >   and try the (failing) PRODUCT command again.   That did the trick!   B I "think" that the culprit has been found... and he is I.  LookingA through my configuration notes, we have some software that uses a G command shortcut of CONFIG for CONFIGURATIONS by default.  This command D is old and now conflicts with a newer built-in VMS command that usesD the same name... i.e., CONFIGURE which gets called even if you enterF CONFIGURATIONS.  So, to get around this, I had at some point defined aB mumble.CLD file to redefine our system-specific command to another command alias by entering:  + $ SET COMMAND/TABLE=SYS$LIBRARY:DCLTABLES - +    /OUTPUT=SYS$LIBRARY:DCLTABLES mumble.CLD   C I'm assuming that I took this command from the system documentation G somewhere, as I am certain that I am not well versed enough with VMS to G have made it up on my own.  Looking at this with new enlightenment from G you kind folks, it appears that SYS$LIBRARY first looks in SYS$SPECIFIC G and then SYS$COMMON... meaning (I think) that the new command table was C read from SYS$COMMON but written to SYS$SPECIFIC.  Subseqent system F loads of the command table would then be from SYS$SPECIFIC since there. is a file with the correct name located there.  F Please correct me if I'm wrong, but would the following be the correct$ syntax to add my additional command?  2 $ SET COMMAND/TABLE=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES -2    /OUTPUT=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES mumble.CLD   Bobby    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:36:04 +0200 3 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> / Subject: Re: Error installing VMS732_PCSI-V0300 , Message-ID: <447d8db5$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  / "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com> wrote in message  = news:1149019889.602849.127050@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com... ? > Thanks for the reply... I tried your suggestion and have even I > shutdown/rebooted the machine again... but the error is still the same.  >  > Bobby  >   1 Look for DCLTABLES.EXE in SYS$SPECIFIC directory.   
 Best, Gorazd     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:54:50 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: Error installing VMS732_PCSI-V0300 2 Message-ID: <_Dlfg.1314$aO4.1297@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bobby wrote:  H > Please correct me if I'm wrong, but would the following be the correct& > syntax to add my additional command? > 4 > $ SET COMMAND/TABLE=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES -4 >    /OUTPUT=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES mumble.CLD      That'll work.   	--   E    ps: The CONFIGURE command is a valid command on OpenVMS Alpha and   OpenVMS I64, FWIW.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:45:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Fixing a Corrupt PCSI Database , Message-ID: <447DF271.88B64180@teksavvy.com>   Charlie Hammond wrote:K > How/why is this easier than just repeating the PRODUCT INSTALL operation?     C Your have a system with a product install followed by other product G installs that depend on the first. So when you do the first one, it may G fail because you have a version that is more recent, or if it succeeds, ? you need to make sure you install all other ones following it.    D Now, you have a system that works. Just some dummy PCSI product fileD that is screwed up. Will you jeoperdize the stability of your system: with a whoel slew of product installs (which might zap any9 customisations you had made) just to fix one file that is  corrupt/missing ????  E Again, this is "Windows" mentality of reinstalling everything because  the registry is fucked.     F If you worked for a bank and had to tell your bosses that the vax will@ need 20 hours of downtime to do a full reinstall of the softwareC followed by all the testing and qualifications to esure it was done : well, and having the customer potentially reload all theirG data/capplication configs, all this because one file (not essential for F the proper functioning of the system) was screwed up, do you think you> would be staying as an employee of that bank for a long time ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 22:27:44 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> + Subject: Re: Fixing a Corrupt PCSI Database 9 Message-ID: <xJudnbZQ_asj0uPZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Charlie Hammond wrote:L >> How/why is this easier than just repeating the PRODUCT INSTALL operation? >  > E > Your have a system with a product install followed by other product I > installs that depend on the first. So when you do the first one, it may I > fail because you have a version that is more recent, or if it succeeds, A > you need to make sure you install all other ones following it.   > F > Now, you have a system that works. Just some dummy PCSI product fileF > that is screwed up. Will you jeoperdize the stability of your system< > with a whoel slew of product installs (which might zap any; > customisations you had made) just to fix one file that is  > corrupt/missing ???? > G > Again, this is "Windows" mentality of reinstalling everything because  > the registry is fucked.     Gotta agree with JF on this one.  H > If you worked for a bank and had to tell your bosses that the vax willB > need 20 hours of downtime to do a full reinstall of the softwareE > followed by all the testing and qualifications to esure it was done < > well, and having the customer potentially reload all theirI > data/capplication configs, all this because one file (not essential for H > the proper functioning of the system) was screwed up, do you think you@ > would be staying as an employee of that bank for a long time ?  D Well, if it was a windoz system, the bank people would expect such. 3 Would probably have been through it multiple times.   F My bitch is why does VMS have to hold to a higher standard?  (Talking - about the bank question, not the PCSI issue.)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:17:40 -0400 - From: "Jim Agnew" <brainwavesurfer@gmail.com> 2 Subject: Re: How to do automated email proccessingI Message-ID: <a184d6630605311317p3022d5a1l4d3b8854eee616da@mail.gmail.com>   ( ------=_Part_5722_10338830.1149106660989; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   H That's exactly what we do... we cobbled together a system that reads theK form input from the page, with hidden fields so that the data goes into the J right database and right table... the form fields match the table columns.  6 data integrity is minimal, tho, w/o any checking.. ;-)   not bad for 1987...    jim   3 On 5/30/06, Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com> wrote:  > I > Thanks everyone.  Your suggestions and info were very helpful.  We will F > probably just use DCL and poll every 5 minutes or so (if the projectB > goes forward).  The people I am working with were pleased by theJ > simplicity that the DCL mail/extract suggestion could be done.  If we doK > not use it here, we will almost certainly use it on any upcoming project.  >  > Thanks again!  >  > -- > 
 > Thomas Wirt  > Operations Manager, IS Dept. > Kittle's Home Furnishings  > Indianapolis, IN >  > Thomas Wirt wrote: > G > > I am looking to take form emails that were sent from a web page and L > > process them automatically with a program as they come in.  Ultimately IJ > > want to use our home grown applications to process the data from theseL > > email forms, to populate fields in our database.  We have never done any1 > > automated processing of inbound email before.  > > I > > I seem to remember something in COV about a utility to read these and G > > get them into a text form that is easier to work with.  I know that L > > there is a mail API, but I am hoping for a simple way to process inboundI > > email in real or near real time without learning any new and possibly J > > complicated API.  I have seen the MBU freeware, but I am not sure from/ > > the very brief readme if it is what I need.  > > L > > I am very interested in how other VMS users are automatically processingK > > inbound email.  I know that there are other ways to get data from a web K > > form, but for this project, it would be a big win for VMS if I can find J > > a simple, free solution that allows us to take a form email and get it= > > to a VMS .com or Basic program ready data format quickly.  > >  > > TIA  >  >  > -- > 
 > Thomas Wirt  > Operations Manager, IS Dept. > Kittle's Home Furnishings  > Indianapolis, IN >   ( ------=_Part_5722_10338830.1149106660989+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline    That's exactly what we do... we cobbled together a system that reads the<br>form input from the page, with hidden fields so that the data goes into the<br>right database and right table... the form fields match the table columns.  <br><br>data integrity is minimal, tho, w/o any checking.. ;-)<br><br>not bad for 1987...<br><br>jim<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 5/30/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Thomas Wirt</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:twnews@kittles.com"> twnews@kittles.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Thanks everyone.&nbsp;&nbsp;Your suggestions and info were very helpful.&nbsp;&nbsp;We will9<br>probably just use DCL and poll every 5 minutes or so (if the project<br>goes forward).&nbsp;&nbsp;The people I am working with were pleased by the<br>simplicity that the DCL mail/extract suggestion could be done.&nbsp;&nbsp;If we do<br>not use it here, we will almost certainly use it on any upcoming project.  <br><br>Thanks again!<br><br>--<br><br>Thomas Wirt<br>Operations Manager, IS Dept.<br>Kittle's Home Furnishings<br>Indianapolis, IN<br><br>Thomas Wirt wrote:<br><br>&gt; I am looking to take form emails that were sent from a web page and <br>&gt; process them automatically with a program as they come in.&nbsp;&nbsp;Ultimately I<br>&gt; want to use our home grown applications to process the data from these<br>&gt; email forms, to populate fields in our database.&nbsp;&nbsp;We have never done any 3<br>&gt; automated processing of inbound email before.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I seem to remember something in COV about a utility to read these and<br>&gt; get them into a text form that is easier to work with.&nbsp;&nbsp;I know that<br>&gt; there is a mail API, but I am hoping for a simple way to process inbound  <br>&gt; email in real or near real time without learning any new and possibly<br>&gt; complicated API.&nbsp;&nbsp;I have seen the MBU freeware, but I am not sure from<br>&gt; the very brief readme if it is what I need.<br>&gt;<br>  &gt; I am very interested in how other VMS users are automatically processing<br>&gt; inbound email.&nbsp;&nbsp;I know that there are other ways to get data from a web<br>&gt; form, but for this project, it would be a big win for VMS if I can find  <br>&gt; a simple, free solution that allows us to take a form email and get it<br>&gt; to a VMS .com or Basic program ready data format quickly.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; TIA<br><br><br>--<br><br>Thomas Wirt<br>Operations Manager, IS Dept.L <br>Kittle's Home Furnishings<br>Indianapolis, IN<br></blockquote></div><br>  * ------=_Part_5722_10338830.1149106660989--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:54:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?, Message-ID: <447DF472.CC62BD96@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >    As for unsupported HP Itanium-based systems, the zx2000 and zx6000 H > workstations and the older McKinley-class Integrity systems within theF > supported Integrity lines should -- SHOULD -- boot Hobbyist OpenVMS.  D VMS today still runs on the all mighty microvax II even though thereH have been a number of new generation VAXes since that time. I guess thatC once the support files were added for the MVII, they didn't need to  change over the years.  H Will the same be said about IA64, or will the evolution of the compilersH that are more closely tied to the chip mean that at one point, a versionF of VMS compiled to support a new generation of those IA64 things would3 no longer run properly on a McKinley class system ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 22:30:29 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?9 Message-ID: <xJudnbFQ_av-zePZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: H >>    As for unsupported HP Itanium-based systems, the zx2000 and zx6000I >> workstations and the older McKinley-class Integrity systems within the G >> supported Integrity lines should -- SHOULD -- boot Hobbyist OpenVMS.  > F > VMS today still runs on the all mighty microvax II even though thereJ > have been a number of new generation VAXes since that time. I guess thatE > once the support files were added for the MVII, they didn't need to  > change over the years. > J > Will the same be said about IA64, or will the evolution of the compilersJ > that are more closely tied to the chip mean that at one point, a versionH > of VMS compiled to support a new generation of those IA64 things would5 > no longer run properly on a McKinley class system ?   * I'd tend to see past practices continuing.  I I'd also tend to avoid asking questions about the future that nobody can   realistically answer.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 13:37:33 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)( Subject: Re: MIME bug: escaped filenames2 Message-ID: <06053113373331_2020743C@antinode.org>  , From: "Paul Mosteika" <paul.mosteika@hp.com>  H > As I said, MIME decodes the file upon OPEN, creating a temporary file.  9    In case I wish to do something which I don't.  Thanks.   M > I fixed the temporary file cleanup issue back in V1.4 and another in V1.5.  N > Do you have the MAIL directory set to the following or is that your default  > for SYS$LOGIN :  >  >     ALP$DKA0:[SMS.MIME]  > D > Try setting the mail directory and see if that resolves the issue.  F    What has my MAIL directory to do with anything?  Is MIME integrated8 into MAIL in some way of which I know nothing?  In fact:   MAIL> show file 6 Your current mail file is ALP$DKA0:[SMS.MAIL]MAIL.MAI.   alp $ show logical sys$login5    "SYS$LOGIN" = "ALP$DKA0:[SMS]" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) 4    "SYS$LOGIN" = "HOME_SMS:[SMS]" (LNM$JOB_81A37BC0)  5    In my example, I simply created an empty directory < (ALP$DKA0:[SMS.MIME]), EXTRACTed a message into a file thereH (DISK.MAIL;1), SET DEFAULT to that directory, ran MIME as shown, and got the files as shown.   K > It appears there is another defect in the cleanup of the temporary files.       That was my guess.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 23:37:50 +0100 * From: Robert Tillyard <rob@vetsystems.com>4 Subject: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233.4 Message-ID: <e5l5rf$flq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  B I have an AlphaServer 1000 4/233 that I bought from someone who'd  installed Linux on it.  E I've put OpenVMS 7.3-1 on it but it says it doesn't have an ethernet  E card, the previous owner said he swapped it for one that Linux would  
 recognise.  H What card do I need to buy (I'm in the UK if that makes a difference to  suppliers) for VMS to use?  + The case says 4/233 but the LCD says 4/266.    Thanks, regards, Rob.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:37:08 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net>8 Subject: Re: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233.2 Message-ID: <1149118247_3651@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   Robert Tillyard wrote:D > I have an AlphaServer 1000 4/233 that I bought from someone who'd  > installed Linux on it. > G > I've put OpenVMS 7.3-1 on it but it says it doesn't have an ethernet  G > card, the previous owner said he swapped it for one that Linux would   > recognise. > J > What card do I need to buy (I'm in the UK if that makes a difference to  > suppliers) for VMS to use? > - > The case says 4/233 but the LCD says 4/266.  >  > Thanks, regards, Rob.   M  From the SRM's >>> prompt a SHOW CONFIG command will show you the CPU speed,  among other things.  8-)  J I think a DE500-BA Ethernet PCI card will function in an Alphaserver 1000.  
 Check out:  8    <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/1000/>    
 Jeff Campbell  n8wxs@arrl.net      Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:52:30 -0400  From: "Chris" <no.one@no.where> 8 Subject: Re: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233.9 Message-ID: <SSqfg.2637$EF1.188187@news20.bellglobal.com>   L DE500 would be the preferable card, but any old DE450 will work just fine as3 well (and are probably being given away these days)     7 "Robert Tillyard" <rob@vetsystems.com> wrote in message . news:e5l5rf$flq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...C > I have an AlphaServer 1000 4/233 that I bought from someone who'd  > installed Linux on it. > F > I've put OpenVMS 7.3-1 on it but it says it doesn't have an ethernetF > card, the previous owner said he swapped it for one that Linux would > recognise. > I > What card do I need to buy (I'm in the UK if that makes a difference to  > suppliers) for VMS to use? > - > The case says 4/233 but the LCD says 4/266.  >  > Thanks, regards, Rob.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:59:28 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>8 Subject: New OpenVMS Application Programming Publication0 Message-ID: <C0A3B430.208E3%roktsci@comcast.net>  I Is anybody familiar with this publication? Does anyone have any critiques 	 about it?   E "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer" ! By: Roland Hughes; 795p $90.00 US  ISBN 0-9770866-0-7  6 Apparently it is only available from Island Computers:' http://www.islandco.com/theminimum.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 07:28:39 +0200 3 From: Wilm Boerhout <w4OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl> < Subject: Re: New OpenVMS Application Programming Publication6 Message-ID: <447e7b07$0$31939$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>  & Jeff Cameron wrote on 1-6-2006 5:59...K > Is anybody familiar with this publication? Does anyone have any critiques  > about it?  > G > "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer" # > By: Roland Hughes; 795p $90.00 US  > ISBN 0-9770866-0-7 > 8 > Apparently it is only available from Island Computers:) > http://www.islandco.com/theminimum.html   C Great book. Review is on openvms.org. It's the review I would have  # written, but someone beat me to it.    /Wilm    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:39:59 -0400 , From: <Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com>( Subject: RSYNC or equivalent For VAX/VMSM Message-ID: <63A4454BFCE1C048B2683DBB63A3633326A120@ETP-CIN-US-EX01.etp1.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C68513.E99ED921  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="us-ascii" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   = I'm looking for a working version of RSYNC, or an open source E alternative, that will run on VMS 7.2 for the VAX.  I can see stalled H efforts on the Samba list but need something that is working today.  Any recommendations?   =20   ? A side question; has anyone succeeded at NFS exporting both VMS H directories (source & target) and then rsyncing from a Linux system that? has both NFS devices mounted.  I suspect that blocking, and RMS G structured files like relative and indexed will have problems with this 	 approach.   
 Best regards,    =20   ' Barry Treahy, Jr                    =20    Vice President/CIO   Midwest Microwave, Inc.   , Emerson Network Power Connectivity Solutions  , E-mail: Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com   Phone: 480/314-1320    Cell:     480/216-9568 Fax:     480/661-7028    =20   2                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!=20   =20     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C68513.E99ED921  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="us-ascii" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   ; <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = 3 xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = * xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">   <head>7 <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Dus-ascii">G <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">  <style>  <!--  /* Style Definitions */)  p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal 
 	{margin:0in;  	margin-bottom:.0001pt;  	font-size:12.0pt;  	font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink 
 	{color:blue;  	text-decoration:underline;}$ a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed 	{color:purple;  	text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 " 	{mso-style-type:personal-compose; 	font-family:Arial;  	color:windowtext;}  @page Section1 	{size:8.5in 11.0in;# 	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}  div.Section1 	{page:Section1;}  -->  </style>   </head>   . <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>   <div class=3DSection1>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;I font-family:Arial'>I&#8217;m looking for a working version of RSYNC, or =  an open G source alternative, that will run on VMS 7.2 for the VAX.&nbsp; I can =  see D stalled efforts on the Samba list but need something that is working> today.&nbsp; Any recommendations?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;6 font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;A font-family:Arial'>A side question; has anyone succeeded at NFS =  exporting bothF VMS directories (source &amp; target) and then rsyncing from a Linux = systemG that has both NFS devices mounted.&nbsp; I suspect that blocking, and =  RMS I structured files like relative and indexed will have problems with this = 
 approach.<br>  <br>* Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;6 font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;  font-family:Arial'>Barry Treahy,J Jr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=1 ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;B font-family:Arial'>Vice President/CIO</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;G font-family:Arial'>Midwest Microwave, Inc.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;< font-family:Arial'>Emerson&nbsp;Network Power Connectivity =& Solutions</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>  8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>E-mail: <a = J href=3D"mailto:Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com">Barry.Treahy@Emerson=1 NetworkPower.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;C font-family:Arial'>Phone: 480/314-1320</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;A font-family:Arial'>Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 480/216-9568<br> A Fax:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;480/661-7028</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>   D <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: + 12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>   8 <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;J font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= nbsp; : .. but it's a DRY HEAT!&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>  D <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: + 12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>    </div>   </body>    </html>   ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C68513.E99ED921--    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:46:14 -0400 , From: <Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com>( Subject: RSYNC or equivalent For VAX/VMSM Message-ID: <63A4454BFCE1C048B2683DBB63A3633326A121@ETP-CIN-US-EX01.etp1.com>   ? I'm looking for a working version of RSYNC, or an open source = G alternative, that will run on VMS 7.2 for the VAX.  I can see stalled = J efforts on the Samba list but need something that is working today.  Any = recommendations?   =20   A A side question; has anyone succeeded at NFS exporting both VMS = J directories (source & target) and then rsyncing from a Linux system that =A has both NFS devices mounted.  I suspect that blocking, and RMS = I structured files like relative and indexed will have problems with this = 	 approach.   
 Best regards,    =20   ' Barry Treahy, Jr                    =20    Vice President/CIO   Midwest Microwave, Inc.   , Emerson Network Power Connectivity Solutions  , E-mail: Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com   Phone: 480/314-1320    Cell:     480/216-9568 Fax:     480/661-7028    =20   2                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!=20   =20    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:34:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: speeding up LAVC with switch instead of hub? , Message-ID: <447DEFC7.D8C1361F@teksavvy.com>  J > > Right.  However, I'm hoping for two things: 1) WHEN the VAXes saturateK > > the network with the shadow copies, perhaps this could be isolated from     @ Ok, basic question here: can a VAX saturate a 10 mbps ethernet ?  C When a 4000-200 does a backup of a disk served by a VS 3100-30, the 8 3100's CPU goes to nearly 100% due to the MSCP server.    F Maybe next time, I should use ethermon on a 3rd node to watch just howG much traffic flows. I would assume that a backup woudl actually suck up C more of the ethernet since it is only reading from the disk and not ! waiting for a write confirmation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 22:54:19 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe/ Message-ID: <7_udnfXVDL5nyOPZ4p2dnA@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:; > In article <vrmdnezKCIpPVuDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:J >> I get real tired of reading about how Unix is thriving and VMS is not.  > M > I get tired of reading about rising taxes, rising interest rates and rising 0 > crime rates.  Doesn't make them any less true. > I >> It's always stated in a manner that suggests that it's the OS that is   >> causing this effect.  > > > Maybe it is, but not the way you seem to be interpreting it. > E >> Can anyone possibly conceive the notion that VMS runs on only one  J >> currently produced CPU and on systems (not the most desired) from only N >> one vendor?  Do you think this might have something to do with the numbers? > L > And why is that?  Could it be that its last few owners have not thought itK > stood a chance competing with the alternatives and chose to milk the cash L > cow to death rather than trying to fatten it up enough for it to carry its
 > own weight?    Hmmm...........   H I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me ask very explicitly, > are you accusing palmer and curly of being astute businessmen?  B If they made such good decisions, where are their companies today?  H Perhaps if DEC and Compaq were 1/10 as good as you seem to declare them $ to be, they'd still be around today.  B >> Add to this Palmer driving away hugh numbers of ISVs using VMS. >  > Why is that?  See above. > 3 >> Add to this the lack of any promotion of the OS.  >>$ >> Add killing Alpha, and more ..... > J > I won't keep repeating the above, but surely the people who did all thisJ > had to have a reason, even if no one on the outside saw it the same way.  I The people who didn't make good decisions have caused the destruction of   their companies.  F The most probatable reason is that they were afraid to compete in the F market.  They looked at Microsoft and Intel and just stood quaking in B their booties and didn't do a damn thing.  They just waited to be # gobbled up.  They were incompetent!   L >> Now, once again, tell me just how much of the OS selection is determined  >> by the OS capabilities. > H > As late as the early Alpha days, there is little if any doubt that VMSI > was superior in capabilities.  But times have changed.  the competition K > turned commercial in a big way and moved forward to a greater extent than H > VMS did.  With the possible exception of clustering most modern UnixesJ > can do everything that VMS can do.  Not necessarily in the same way, but& > to the satisfaction of the industry. > - >> I'll suggest that if all else were equal,   > - > In the real world, all else is never equal.  > K >>                                           VMS would be chosen over Unix  4 >> more often than not.  As an example, in the 80s,  > ( > There we go, living int he past again.  F Not living in the past, just citing an example.  Do you know anywhere G else to get examples of history?  Please tell me how to get an example  F of what the stock prices will be tomorrow.  You'll never hear from me  about VMS again.  ! > Back int he 80's VMS was pretty I > much superior to all the available Unixes.  But this isn't the 80's and  > Unix didn't stand still.  F And neither has VMS.  I won't claim that it has moved as fast as some I others, but I will say that it's possible that some of the advances made  ) by others was because VMS showed the way.   H >>                                                  when a rather large J >> percentage of computers in use (before PCs) were VAXs, what percentage ) >> ran VMS, and what percentage ran Unix?  > K > It would be interesting to see real (from a source that could be trusted) J > numbers.  I know from personal experience backin the 80's I saw more VAXM > running VMS than Unix.  But then I saw more systems of other architectures  - > than VAX and the majority of them ran Unix.   E Because VMS only ran on VAX.  Sort of the whole point of my original   post, don't ya think?   I >> If you want to talk about reasons there is more use of Unix than VMS,  B >> I've given you a list, and none of them are about capabilities. > F > Yes, but I still hold that the background reason for many of the badF > decisions above were that people in a position to make the decisionsG > could not see VMS competing.  In any event, it changes nothing.  Unix F > is still growing and VMS is shrinking.  Professionals trying to pushG > VMS by souting off obviously wrong information about Unix don't help, I > they just loose even more credibility with the managers they are trying E > to convince and relegate VMS even further to the realm of "legacy".  > D > Even after my little poll which showed a number of people here whoB > actually think VMS is the better OS, most of them still laugh atD > the idea of actually using it.  Why do you think that is?  I know,A > I'm the one they think is a dinosaur, with all my toys straight  > out of the Jurasic Era.   > Yeah, the car is great.  But use it?  No way!  Horses forever!  D Ok, lets try once more.  You work at a University, you do under the . concept of a hypothetical question, don't you?  D If VMS ran on only itanic, and Unix also ran only on itanic, do you D truly feel that Unix would enjoy such greater numbers of users?  No A bullshitting around, just answer the question as it's posed.  No  @ bullshit about the real world as a way of avoiding the question.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 00:10:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <447E68B6.1C68F44B@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:I > I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me ask very explicitly, @ > are you accusing palmer and curly of being astute businessmen? > D > If they made such good decisions, where are their companies today?    G Carly, Curly and Palmer all managed to leverage their incompetance into G tens of millions in severance packages. So yes, they are smart business ( people for their own personnal finances.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 00:28:22 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybeG Message-ID: <n--dncxoJ9118ePZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote:   ...   F > If VMS ran on only itanic, and Unix also ran only on itanic, do you A > truly feel that Unix would enjoy such greater numbers of users?   E Absolutely.  In fact, if Unix only ran on the Itanic it would ensure  I Itanic's future, because all the existing Unix enthusiasts would have no  5 alternative but to embrace it (or migrate elsewhere).   C By contrast, the existing VMS customer base (which clearly already  D includes all VMS enthusiasts, at least those committed to using the C product) is minute (and shrinking - in no small part because VMS's  A future is insufficiently assured to justify embracing a hardware  @ platform that they don't find very attractive in its own right).  E That's today's situation, of course.  At one time, back in the early  H 1980s, the situation was far different:  VMS was king, and Unix just an D upstart.  But that king was dethroned before the end of that decade G (largely due to uncompetitive DEC hardware rather than to deficiencies  I in VMS per se, though the latter played some part as well), stagnated in  I exile throughout the '90s (at least when he wasn't being actively knifed  H by his former court, as took place in the infamous affinity campaigns), I and started being starved to death in the current decade under Temporary  > Prime Minister Curly (since which only the former king's iron , constitution has kept him - barely - alive).  G By contrast, Unix has thrived throughout, achieved royalty of its own,  F spawned vigorous offspring to carry on the line, and seems far better H positioned to confront its own upstart (Windows) than VMS was back then I (in part because Unix runs on the same hardware that Windows does - plus   more).  E VMS had its chance and blew it (or at least in part had it blown for  D it).  Absent some massively credible effort by its owner to turn it H around, no one who isn't already committed to VMS will give it a second G thought, because it's at best stagnant and quite likely headed for the  H ultimate code freeze sooner rather than later (and the people who might D otherwise be most interested in it are interested in the long term).  H Attempting to compare VMS and Unix on technical grounds entirely misses E the point.  Unix is clearly *adequate* for most needs, regardless of  I whether VMS might be better.  And Unix is credible as a platform for the  D future, whereas VMS simply isn't (due to decades of neglect with no 4 indication whatsoever of any change in that status).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 13:46:03 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 0 Message-ID: <1149097602.373173@nntp.acecape.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:; > In article <vrmdnezKCIpPVuDZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:J >> I get real tired of reading about how Unix is thriving and VMS is not.   ( Unix is not thriving. Linux is thriving.; Not because it is "better" but because it is free or cheap.    ............................  E > to convince and relegate VMS even further to the realm of "legacy".  > D > Even after my little poll which showed a number of people here whoB > actually think VMS is the better OS, most of them still laugh atD > the idea of actually using it.  Why do you think that is?  I know,A > I'm the one they think is a dinosaur, with all my toys straight  > out of the Jurasic Era.  >    > bill >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 13:33:01 -0600 + From: Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) % Message-ID: <447d8cfd$1@mvb.saic.com>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > L > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote on 05/25/2006 10:39:32 > AM:  >  >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>/ >>>In article <e54907$ljp$1@reader1.panix.com>, 6 >>>   John F <john@pleaseSeeSigForAddress.com> writes: >>>  >>> 9 >>>>OP seems, in reply to your query, rather annoyed that < >>>>nobody's willing to take on his brilliant idea for free. >  > [snip] > 3 >>Unix runs faster than VMS on comparable hardware.  >  > 1 > I just cannot let that statement go unremarked. C > Unix may run faster, but without the reliability, so "comparable" D > is as always dependent on the business problem needing a solution. > One man's meat....  N I have done a number of head to head performance comparisons of Unix vs. VMS, P usually on the same hardware.  Unix never won.  This would have been in the VAX K days and a few years into the Alpha days.  I have not had reason do to any  N recently.  However, neither have I seen anything to indicate that the results  would now be different.   
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:49:15 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) , Message-ID: <447DF336.C63D944A@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:I > thier way is the only right way.  Unix philosophy was that this was NOT K > the OSes concern but an application problem.  And they provided more than   > enough ways to actually do it.    E But this means that do to stuff "right", the unix programmer needs to D add a lot of code, whereas the VMS programmer can make use of systemC services and thus not only save time, but also reduce the number of E potential bugs because the system services have already had extensive 1 testing by really bright engineers and customers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:41:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) , Message-ID: <447DF14A.6B595C7C@teksavvy.com>  G re: students being able to write a TCPIP server very easily and without  prior knowledge of TCPIP.     F There is a huge difference between writing a program for an assignmentC at school and writing a transactional system that handles financial D transctions with all the checks and balances which can be audited soG that there aren't any undocumented code snippets that transfer portions  of cents to some account.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:16:30 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) ) Message-ID: <op.tafpdsy0lvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   2 On Wed, 31 May 2006 14:11:13 -0700, Bob Koehler  =  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  I >   You keep talking about VMS in a manner that shows lack of knowledge.=   G >    And you keep assuming that when we criticise UNIX we have only VMS G >    to compare it to.  I don't care how many pigs are in your pen, you I >    should try raising a few other kinds of animals before you assume i=  t's G >    all a pig vs. shark world.  Many of us who like sharks have raised C >    a couple pigs, too, along with some sheep, penguins, and gnus.   $ Alright, I give, the sheep would be?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 16:11:13 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <DhMFf8ay0BlP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4e5jirF1c9vevU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <RF5hukbZkzlB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:     G >>    Anyone who studies human interfaces or learns from the history of H >>    UNIX security issues can discover that the late 1960's approach to$ >>    each belongs in the late 60's. > E > Wait a minute!!!  Human interfaces?  Which one is still primarily a  > command line interface?   C    The one _you_ use that way, I think.  I've been doing most of my C    stuff from X windows on VMS since it came out, but the only UNIX '    I can get that much GUI from is Mac.   4 >  How 60's can you get?  Which one's GUI technologyH > has kept pace with modern changes?  As for security issues, there haveF > been massive changes at the OS level to address these issues many ofH > which weren't issues until some idiot decided to let the masses on theI > INTERNET instead of making them go out and build their own pen to foul.   I    Yes there have been massive changes.  But the basic, flawed design, is     still there.  >  >>  B >>    You seem to live in a small world.  You should get out more. > H > How do I live in a small world?  Are you now going to try and convince6 > me that there are more VMS systems in use than Unix?  G    You keep talking about VMS in a manner that shows lack of knowledge. E    And you keep assuming that when we criticise UNIX we have only VMS E    to compare it to.  I don't care how many pigs are in your pen, you J    should try raising a few other kinds of animals before you assume it's E    all a pig vs. shark world.  Many of us who like sharks have raised A    a couple pigs, too, along with some sheep, penguins, and gnus.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 16:17:22 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <lJkY8LSJnOA9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4e5ltsF1d0nsrU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >   I > FUD is in the eye of the beholder.  They were also comparing apples and O > oranges because they didn't take into consideration configuration differences L > in the default setup of the systems.  Maybe what needs to be done just forK > grins is to set up a system with both VMS and Unix and run a bunch of the ; > more common benchmarks.  Which one do you think will win?   D    Depends on the compiler.  Last time I compared a "MIPS" benchmarkC    between an HP and a DEC system the HP came out at about 20 MIPS, B    which was about right, and the DEC came out with +Infinity Nan.  >    So I told a VP at Compaq that I hope not to see HP heritage%    compilers on VMS after the merger.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 16:19:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <3Kpv5AvbKg1Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <447db5dd$0$67257$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  > J > Changing the file type is not a common operation on an operating system . > where file types are not natively supported.  0    It's a common operation from programmers in a"    not-everything-is-C/UNIX world.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 16:13:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <CW1U6dZOeNge@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4e5laaF1d0nsrU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > H > Well, I would have to look at a book on something more modern than F77J > which was the last Fortran i worked extensively with, but at that point,N > Fortran had no mechanism for dealing with parameters so it wasn't necessary.  @    Just because Fortran didn't think of it doens't mean it's not@    necessary.  I see no reason why an OS can't provide it to all
    languages.   C    As far as not standard, isn't that the whole point of "open" OS,     to provide a standard?    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 16:14:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <8YqAxc8P0hya@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4e5ltsF1d0nsrU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > = > And if a regular user does that, what do you think happens?  >   7    He goes to his admin and asks for the root password.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2006 16:26:22 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <wY$GVcZrwMMz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <447db5dd$0$67257$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  > I > No, but I wonder if you do.  You keep using examples from years ago to  C > put down current days *NIX.  Why should anybody take advise from  J > somebody doing that?  Do you really think you do VMS any good that way?   F    Years ago?  Are you sure nobody is programming in Fortran or Pascal	    today?   H    I don't buy the C, or C++, or Java, is The Silver Bullet hype.  I buyG    the right tool for the job.  Some things are easier to do in PL/I.   !    Some things are easier in Ada.   D    Some are easier pushing buttons.  Some buttons are easier to push    than others.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 23:01:20 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) / Message-ID: <7_udnfTVDL4DyuPZ4p2dnA@libcom.com>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:  F > And that would be in the same way that data integrity belongs at theA > application leval rather that the adatabase management level ??   H I'd think that if there is not data integrity at the application level, I then there is no data integrity.  The database is just a filing cabinet.     Garbage in, garbage out.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.302 ************************