1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 02 Jun 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 305       Contents:7 5305 (ALPHAserver 1200), switch, speed, full duplex etc  Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.0 " Re: Compiling Problem with LibCurl Re: DCL: IF and .AND. logic  Re: DCL: IF and .AND. logic  Dec Items / Offers Directory command  Re: Directory command 7 Re: FOR SALE! OpenVMS v7.1 Full Documentation Hard Copy 7 Re: FOR SALE! OpenVMS v7.1 Full Documentation Hard Copy  Graphics if Console is serial ! Re: Graphics if Console is serial A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers 	 Kill self 
 Re: Kill self 0 O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis4 Re: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis4 Re: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis4 Re: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis older sun items / offers2 Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server2 Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server2 Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server Re: Personal note  Re: Personal note  Re: Personal note  SA 5300A initial configuration" Re: SA 5300A initial configuration" Re: SA 5300A initial configuration" Re: SA 5300A initial configuration# Set volume label programmatically ? ' Re: Set volume label programmatically ?  The Minimum You Need to Know Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe ) Re: [MAILUAF] Newer version with RENAME ?  [VT200 and up] Defining UDK   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:28:03 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)@ Subject: 5305 (ALPHAserver 1200), switch, speed, full duplex etc$ Message-ID: <e5p3rj$n3r$1@online.de>  2 I'm still wondering whether I should buy a switch.  D Normally, I have all my VMS machines (and one other machine) on a 10E Mb/s hub.  The UPLINK port of that hub goes to a LINKSYS BEFSR41 DSL  F router, which has a built-in switch.  Also connected to that are a PC 7 and a VOIP-device.  These run at 100 Mb/s, full duplex.   H Each port has three LEDs.  The top one (green) lights up when there is aF connection and blinks where there is traffic.  The middle one (green) I lights up when things are full duplex and is otherwise dark, except that  H it lights up when there are collisions.  The bottom one (yellow) lights  up when the speed is 100 Mb/s.  ! My ISP has a "DSL speed checker":   /    http://www.1und1.de/index.php?page=speedtest   ! (beware of the non-linear scale).   D I have a 6 Mb/s DSL connection.  From the PC, where the 100 Mb/s andA full-duplex light up, the link above shows something like 6 Mb/s. G From a machine on the hub (old VAX, old ALPHA or 5305), it shows around 
 700 kb/s.   @ Today, before booting the 5305, I set EWA0_mode to FastFD at theF console and connected it directly to the switch.  I got the following % message on the console while booting:   ;    %EWA0, Possible duplex mode mismatch condition detected.   I but otherwise things seem OK.  The 100 Mb/s LED lights up on the switch,  @ but the full-duplex LED does NOT light up. Here's what VMS sees:   Device Characteristics EWA0:'                   Value  Characteristic '                   -----  -------------- +                    1500  Device buffer size (                  Normal  Controller mode/                External  Internal loopback mode -       08-00-2B-C3-55-10  Hardware LAN address /                          Multicast address list -                 CSMA/CD  Communication medium ,       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address0                     128  Minimum receive buffers0                     256  Maximum receive buffers+                     Yes  Full duplex enable 0                     Yes  Full duplex operational(             TwistedPair  Line media type*                     100  Line speed (mbps)*     Disabled/No Failset  Logical LAN state*                       0  Failover priority  D Two things are confusing me.  First, the speed test is STILL showing@ only 700 kb/s instead of 6 Mb/s.  Also, when I do the check, theB flashing of LEDs on the HUB increases markedly.  Since the 5305 isG apparently running at 100 Mb/s (though probably not at full duplex) and H is directly connected to the switch, why can't I get more speed?  Why is@ this traffic apparently seen on the hub?  Why doesn't the switchG indicate full duplex for the 5305?  Also, and this is really confusing, F a PC on the HUB with a modern ethernet card shows the full 6 Mb/s EVENF THOUGH IT IS CONNECTED TO THE HUB AND NOT DIRECTLY TO THE SWITCH.  (Of( course, it is not part of the cluster.)   I Thus, it seems that the reason the 5305 (and, perhaps the other nodes in  G the cluster) are NOT getting the full DSL speed has nothing to do with  H the switch: the 5305 (which has a modern ethernet card) is slow even on G the switch, and a PC (with a modern ethernet card) is fast even on the  D hub.  So, even though a switch might speed up SCS communication, it G seems that even with a switch I can't get the full speed with the 5305  3 and CAN get it with other machines even on the hub.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 05:40:20 -0700 / From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com>   Subject: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.0C Message-ID: <1149252020.580537.217010@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    George,   . thanks for providding MOSAIC V4.0 for OpenVMS.  E Note: the OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 version (MOSAIC_ALPHA_V73-2.EXE) needs G one to have patch DWMOTIF_ECO02 applied for MOTIF V1.3-1 to prevent the  following error:   $ run mosaic_ALPHA_V73-2.EXE= %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DECW$TRANSPORT_COMMON   -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file = $9$DKA200:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]DECW$TRANSPORT_COM MON.EXE ;  -SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image     Volker.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 08:11:12 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Compiling Problem with LibCurl 3 Message-ID: <Uf1wj4ixCzEw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <1149164042.421764.177420@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Francesco Donini" <fdonini@gmail.com> writes:& > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk ha scritto:R >> Creating an executable on VMS is a two stage process. Compiling the source intoQ >> object files (.obj files) and then linking these files together with libraries  >> to create executables.  >>H >> The CC command only does the first step. .olb files are library filesJ >> containing object files and hence shouldn't be included on the CC line.H >> The LINK command is then used to link the object files and libraries. >> >>+ >> What you probably need is something like  >> >> cc simple.c >  > Yes u are right C > I tried before what u are telling me but i get only error message  > compiling the source. A > The compiler can't resolve the include files and all the others 0 > function because doesn't know where find them.  F    The C compiler has a process for finding include files.  By defaultH    it finds those which ship with the compiler, curl isn't one of those.  K    curl.h should be located with the libcurl.olb you have.  In a nutshell,  ?    the compiler will find <curl/curl.h> if you define curl as a >    logical pointing to the directory which contains curl.h .    E    If you checkout "help cc /include", you'll find other ways to tell     the compiler where to look.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:37:14 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> $ Subject: Re: DCL: IF and .AND. logic9 Message-ID: <41cca$448014dc$50db5015$415@news.hispeed.ch>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Michael Unger wrote: > H >>being an implicite "ENDSUBROUTINE") you get a new procedure level whenB >>it gets executed -- making it easier to manage the "locality" of
 >>symbols. >  >  > D > Au contraire. It makes for much less obvious management of symbolsJ > because when searching for all occurances of a symbol, you will not knowH > if that symbol is within a subnroutine or not unless you have a really9 > big window and see that it is within a subroutine code.  >   H On that subject I like to document input and output symbols in comments E at the beginning of a subroutine; subroutine headers will show up in   such a search.  J > Having a new set of local symbols is a neat concept for DCL, but from myD > point of view, it causes more grief than harm since the subroutineH > cannot modify mainline symbols unless the symbol(s) you modify are notB > only declared globally, but there is also no local declarations. >   @ It's simply a matter of discipline, which I happen to like when  programming :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:43:20 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> $ Subject: Re: DCL: IF and .AND. logic9 Message-ID: <3d825$44801649$50db5015$577@news.hispeed.ch>    Dave Froble wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:  >> >> $ gosub lunch7 >> $ if $status .eq. too_much_spaghetti then goto sleep  >  > A > Don't you mean GOSUB SLEEP?  You do plan on waking, right?  :-)  > & Of course, but it just read better :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:58:09 -0400 # From: rjk <rjkrjkXXX@optonline.net>  Subject: Dec Items / Offers , Message-ID: <44806E21.9F31036@optonline.net>   4  HD50/HD50 Cables BN 21H-02 ! 4  4.55Gb Drives  RZ 2CC-KA   new ' 1 10/100 NIC DE500 Dig Chipset 21143-PC % 1 VHDC1/HD50  BN31l-1E  / 17 04107 01 " 1 Mylex 960 Raid Card  30 48115 02) 2 A09 KZPSAPS 54 22944 01  Diff SCSI Card 5 1 Storageworks- Raid Array 200 / WIN NT Software, new %     QB 2XHAE-SA 2/2 / 99 09149-12 A01      remove XXX prior to reply    offer's welcome  --               ============	 rj kulman  rjk consulting llc 718 968 9167      Reply To: rjkrjk@optonline.com   new / used computer stuff -   F Nothing But Net       Keep Your Options, Opinions and Software OPEN - 7 Keep American Jobs @ HOME         *   Register and VOTE    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 05:48:29 -0700 ' From: "Nagaraj C" <chinumari@gmail.com>  Subject: Directory commandC Message-ID: <1149252509.856354.258360@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   ( To list the directory we can also use...   $ dir *.*.* ( Two dots)   F dir [...]*.*.* (Dot after second star) is equivalent to dir [...]*.*;* (Semi colon after second star)  $ This applies to delete command also.   Thanks and Regards	 Nagaraj C    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:12:19 +0200 3 From: Wilm Boerhout <w5OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl>  Subject: Re: Directory command6 Message-ID: <44806362$0$13665$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>  $ Nagaraj C wrote on 2-6-2006 14:48... > Hi,  > * > To list the directory we can also use... >  > $ dir *.*.* ( Two dots)  > H > dir [...]*.*.* (Dot after second star) is equivalent to dir [...]*.*;*  > (Semi colon after second star) > & > This applies to delete command also.  ' So, we're really back to basics then...     >>>B   ( Starts VMS from the default boot device.   It all follows from there...  * /Wilm (confused, but less so than others?)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 03:20:43 -0700  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk@ Subject: Re: FOR SALE! OpenVMS v7.1 Full Documentation Hard CopyC Message-ID: <1149243643.567709.214560@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D As someone who is prevented from accessing EBay in work, where is it located?   Ta.    alexcn@writeme.com wrote: B > New item #9735255143 - OpenVMS v7.1 Full Documentation Hard Copy > A > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9735255143    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:04:37 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> @ Subject: Re: FOR SALE! OpenVMS v7.1 Full Documentation Hard Copy9 Message-ID: <73d3$44801b47$50db5015$1804@news.hispeed.ch>    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: F > As someone who is prevented from accessing EBay in work, where is it
 > located? >  > Ta.  >  > alexcn@writeme.com wrote:  > B >>New item #9735255143 - OpenVMS v7.1 Full Documentation Hard Copy >>A >>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9735255143  >  > 
 Here goes:   Starting bid     150.00  8 End time:        08-Jun-06 17:42:36 BST (6 days 5 hours)6 Postage costs:   26.85 Parcelforce 24 (more services) Post to:         United Kingdom ' Item location:   London, United Kingdom  History:         0 bids ' Starting time:   01-Jun-06 17:42:36 BST  Starting bid:    150.00 Duration:        7-day listing Payment methods: PayPal    Item Specifics - Item Condition  Condition:       Used   I   You are bidding on the complete set of reference documentation for the  G OpenVMS operating system version 7.1 as supplied originally by Digital  G before their assimilation into Compaq, and ultimately HP.  The manuals  A cost a significant amount when new and while more modern ways of  G transmitting this much information exist today, there is always a need  " for hardcopy manuals as reference!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:17:50 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com& Subject: Graphics if Console is serialQ Message-ID: <OF041C106B.B97ED9EC-ON85257181.0048B345-85257181.004903B4@metso.com>   K If I set my AS1200 console to serial and plug a VTnnn into the serial port, G will I be able to user the Graphics display that is now on the graphics A DW DecTerm session, and what do I need to change to make it work?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:30:20 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> * Subject: Re: Graphics if Console is serial) Message-ID: <op.tais4urnlvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   C On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:17:50 -0700, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:    > I > If I set my AS1200 console to serial and plug a VTnnn into the serial =   =   > port, I > will I be able to user the Graphics display that is now on the graphic=  s C > DW DecTerm session, and what do I need to change to make it work?  > I Nothing.  All the boot code will appear instaed on you VTnnn nad you won=  't: see anything on the graphics display until VMS has booted.     -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 08:25:52 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?3 Message-ID: <BFM0YxKuh6yA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <447F6121.EC75E839@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > C > Would it be correct to state that the VAX instruction set did not B > evolve/change because it started off as a full instruction set ?  B    The VAX instruction set did evolve.  On the first VAX (11/780),E    G and H float were optional and only implemented in microcode (not     in the FPA).   @    On later VAXen, subsetting rules were created so that not all2    instructions had to be implemented in the chip.  F    And later on more instructions were added, to do vector processing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:47:05 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?) Message-ID: <op.taitwrgslvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   E On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 21:19:53 -0700, John Santos <john@egh.com> wrote:   A >  Or has the IA64 architecture now completed its puberty and its I > instruction set now expected to remain stable and code generated in th=  e E > foreseable future will be compatible all the way down to McKinley ?   >  no idea about the IA64 stuff.  6 Well, you know what comes after puberty?  ... adultery   -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:51:06 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?1 Message-ID: <ufYfg.1418$ZQ5.799@news.cpqcorp.net>    JF Mezei wrote:   E > My question with regards to IA64 pertain on whether Merced machines L > could conceptually run executables generated with Montecito-era compilers. > H > I realise that VMS was never commercially available on Merced, but youE > guys started the porting of VMS to that IA64 thing on Merced boxes.  > E > Does the IA64 architecture allow for something like Alpha where new H > instructions can be emulated so that older generation machines can runJ > executables generated for newer generation machines ? (even if it causes > performanmce hit)   I You can determine the capabilities of the implementation very similar to  F the AMASK and IMPLVER Alpha instructions.  Using these, a compiler or G user-written assembly code could branch to the 'best' seqeunce for the  G chip executing the program.  The CPUID4 register contains feature bits.   F bit 0 - processor implements the long branch (brl) instruction.  Only < Merced didn't do this one plus none of our compilers use it.  H bit 1 - processor implements spontaneous deferral.  Our compilers don't  care.   D bit 2 - processor implements 16-byte atomic operations (ld16, st16, I cmp8xchg16).  Only in Madison chips, but none of our compilers use these   anyway.   E BTW, one of the new instructions is 'tf' (test feature) which allows  + quick checking of some of the feature bits.   E I do honestly know if the newer instructions like st16 and ld16 will  H trap on older Merced/McKinley chips.  I think they do, but we certainly A haven't written any emulator to catch/emulate them.  None of our  K GEM-based compilers generate them and I think none of the others do either.    > E > Or will each new generation of chip/compiler for IA64 mean that new E > executable will not run on older platforms, meaning that those with J > older hardware will eventually not be able to install new version of VMS) > due to architecture incompatibilities ?   H New instructions are NOT the same as architecture incompatibilities.  I @ also don't expect that new compilers would start generating new H instructions by default.  We didn't do that on Alpha for instance.  The I latest compilers, out of the box, generate EV4 compatible code even when  I compiling on an EV7.  You must use /ARCH=HOST etc. to give the compilers  C permission to use the newer instructions.  So no, new chips or new  - compilers won't break older hardware support.    > @ > Or has the IA64 architecture now completed its puberty and itsI > instruction set now expected to remain stable and code generated in the E > foreseable future will be compatible all the way down to McKinley ?   I The number of new instructions added to Itanium between Merced and today  G   is probably less than a dozen and most of them aren't interesting to  H compilers.  And the ones that appear interesting like st16 and ld16 are I different enough (they don't load/store adjacent registers for instance)  H that it would take some work just to even generate them.  Not worth the  effort from my view.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:13:31 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?1 Message-ID: <%k_fg.1430$mV5.497@news.cpqcorp.net>    Tom LINDEN wrote:   < > Biggest pay-off there is probably in going from EV4 to EV5) > (if that is the same as 21064 -> 21164)  >   F The EV4 to EV5 didn't mean much to the compilers other than different @ instruction scheduling.  However, EV56 introduced the byte/word 2 instructions which can be a big win for most code.  C Other interesting instructions (at least to the compilers) are the  I direct float<->integer register move instructions so you can move values  G between the registers sets without having to push/pop the value on the  5 memory stack.  Those came later in the EV6 timeframe.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:22:19 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?) Message-ID: <op.tai3vhttlvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   I On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:13:31 -0700, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wro=  te:    > Tom LINDEN wrote:  > = >> Biggest pay-off there is probably in going from EV4 to EV5 * >> (if that is the same as 21064 -> 21164) >> > I > The EV4 to EV5 didn't mean much to the compilers other than different =   =  D > instruction scheduling.  However, EV56 introduced the byte/word  =  4 > instructions which can be a big win for most code.  I Yes, that is what I was referring to, wasn't sure of the EV nomenclature=  .    > G > Other interesting instructions (at least to the compilers) are the  =   I > direct float<->integer register move instructions so you can move valu=  es  =   I > between the registers sets without having to push/pop the value on the=    =   7 > memory stack.  Those came later in the EV6 timeframe.  >        -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 07:00:29 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers- Message-ID: <KBWfg.8$9i.1102@news.uswest.net>      I The 8086 is NOT a current processor.  The current processors are based on H the x86 (32 bit) and x86-64 (or simply x64) technologies.  Yes, they areK descended from the 8086 processor, which was itself descended from the 8008 K processor, but no one refers to the 8008 processor as a current technology.   J I do agree it will be interesting to see if this restructuring impacts the Itanium processor line.   
 Mike Ober.  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:447F7E0C.B0A82490@teksavvy.com... > Tom LINDEN wrote: I > > LONDON ?" Intel Corp. is expected to announce the results of a major G > > self-appraisal on June 15 and this is set to include the lay off or % > > redeployment of 16,000 employees,  > H > Any bets if there will be a mention of IA64 during this announcement ?A > My guess is that it will not be mentioned, but that some of the A > "redeployment" will involve moving engineers from IA64 to 8086.  > G > It is the fastest way to move resources to the 8086 without many much 5 > fuss and give Intel a chance at catching up to AMD.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 14:24:34 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <4eb011F1dkcviU1@individual.net>  - In article <KBWfg.8$9i.1102@news.uswest.net>, 9 	"Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> writes:  >   K > The 8086 is NOT a current processor.  The current processors are based on J > the x86 (32 bit) and x86-64 (or simply x64) technologies.  Yes, they areM > descended from the 8086 processor, which was itself descended from the 8008 M > processor, but no one refers to the 8008 processor as a current technology.   E Give it up.  Trying to educate him to stop calling current technology ) "the 8086" is just pissing into the wind.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:15:30 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers9 Message-ID: <orydnVVp_8q_2h3ZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Michael D. Ober wrote: >   K > The 8086 is NOT a current processor.  The current processors are based on J > the x86 (32 bit) and x86-64 (or simply x64) technologies.  Yes, they areM > descended from the 8086 processor, which was itself descended from the 8008 M > processor, but no one refers to the 8008 processor as a current technology.   : Ok, it's time to play bookie.  (Is that spelling correct?)  G After this (integer overflow) admonition about using 8086 when talking  H about current products, will JF finally get the message, or, will there  be more usage of '8086'.   Place your bets!   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 05:46:18 -0700 ' From: "Nagaraj C" <chinumari@gmail.com>  Subject: Kill selfC Message-ID: <1149252377.966909.288410@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   + $STOP/ID=0 (Zero) kills the process itself.      Thanks and Regards	 Nagaraj C    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:44:52 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Kill selfQ Message-ID: <OF393953B6.8EBFDF2D-ON85257181.0050C980-85257181.0050FBA6@metso.com>    Hi,   F Is there a point to your posts?  If not I suggest with humour that you execute 
 $STOP/ID=0 on them.  B If you have something to ask, add, or discuss, that'll be welcome.  B "Nagaraj C" <chinumari@gmail.com> wrote on 06/02/2006 08:46:18 AM:   > Hi,  > - > $STOP/ID=0 (Zero) kills the process itself.  >  >  > Thanks and Regards > Nagaraj C  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:00:21 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com9 Subject: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis Q Message-ID: <OFA50B29FC.8B10C940-ON85257181.0041B9E6-85257181.0041EBAB@metso.com>   $ You could now be world famous  :-) .   /-- 1 /VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker  VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM / 5 /  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  /    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 06:53:10 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>= Subject: Re: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis - Message-ID: <TuWfg.6$9i.1429@news.uswest.net>        Shouldn't that be "word" famous?   Mike.   ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message K news:OFA50B29FC.8B10C940-ON85257181.0041B9E6-85257181.0041EBAB@metso.com... & > You could now be world famous  :-) . >  > /-- 3 > /VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker  > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > / 7 > /  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  > /  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:13:46 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com= Subject: Re: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis Q Message-ID: <OF502C7AE7.0A1731BA-ON85257181.00489158-85257181.0048A430@metso.com>   F "Michael D. Ober" <"obermd."@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote on 06/02/2006 08:53:10 AM:   > " > Shouldn't that be "word" famous? >  > Mike.   H He wants nothing to do with anything that even faintly evokes Micro$***!   > + > <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message < > news:OFA50B29FC.8B10C940-ON85257181.0041B9E6-85257181.0041 EBAB@metso.com... ( > > You could now be world famous  :-) . > >  > > /-- 5 > > /VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker  > > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > / 9 > > /  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  > > /  > >  > >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:04:30 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG= Subject: Re: O.T.  Spelling Bee winner had to get past tmesis 0 Message-ID: <00A569BC.C9147C81@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <OFA50B29FC.8B10C940-ON85257181.0041B9E6-85257181.0041EBAB@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >  > % >You could now be world famous  :-) .  >  >/--2 >/VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker >VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  >/6 >/  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >/ >    Huh?   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:54:12 -0400 # From: rjk <rjkrjkXXX@optonline.net> ! Subject: older sun items / offers - Message-ID: <44806D34.13C78C25@optonline.net>   4 hd50/hd50 Ext SCSI Cables (fit 411 cases)   $5.00 ea 7 avail $ 595 3444 SBUS FDDI Transceiver   $18, 501 1419 SBUS  Frame Buffer Video  Card  $10+ 501 2922  SBUS Frame Buffer Video Card  $10  501 1540 SBUS Printer Card $104 Qlogic KZM 1000SE SUN 370 1703  SCSI Wide Controller $20 ' 501 2553 Fib Channel Host Adapter   $18 3 SUN/Aurora Multiport 210 Enhanced Serial Card/ SBUS  $25 % SUN/Aurora Meteor 401SX Ser Adptr $20 - 501 2015 10BaseT Eth / SCSI Card $15 (3 avail  $35/all 3)       remove XXX prior to reply            --               ============	 rj kulman  rjk consulting llc 718 968 9167      Reply To: rjkrjk@optonline.com   new / used computer stuff -   F Nothing But Net       Keep Your Options, Opinions and Software OPEN - 7 Keep American Jobs @ HOME         *   Register and VOTE    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 07:04:12 +0100 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>; Subject: Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-vmezUhTm8WB0@dave2_os2.home.ours>   F On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:28:03 UTC, "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  J > On Wed, 31 May 2006 03:39:55 -0700, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>   > wrote: >  > > Moving on up...  > > = > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/31/sun_x4600_ubunti/ 3 > > http://www.qassociates.co.uk/academic/84a.htm#2  > >  > > Sun Fire X4600 x64 server: > > A67-QGZ8-4S-032CB1 > > 6 > >      * 8xAMD Opteron Model 885 dual-core processor! > >      * 16x2GB DDR1-400 memory  > >      * 2x73GB SAS drive  > >      * DVD-ROM# > >      * 4xPSU, Service Processor - > >      * 4x10/100/1000 BaseT Ethernet ports  > >      * 4xUSB 2.0 ports= > >      * 2xPCI-X slots, 6x PCI-E slots (4x8-lane, 2x4-lane)  > >      * no power cord& > >      * order Geo-specific x-option > >      * RoHS-5 ! > >      * Standard Configuration  > > ' > > Academic Price: 	43,400  ($80,000)  > >  > > N > > Although 8-socket boards have been around for a while, Sun are the first   > > tier one vendor to ship. > % > Looks like a good system to run VMS   7 I wonder if SRI is working on a Charon for Solaris.....    --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:54:08 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> ; Subject: Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server ) Message-ID: <op.tait8imvlvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   5 On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 23:04:12 -0700, Dave Weatherall   ! <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:   H > On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:28:03 UTC, "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > I >> On Wed, 31 May 2006 03:39:55 -0700, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> 	 >> wrote:  >> >> > Moving on up... >> >> >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/31/sun_x4600_ubunti/4 >> > http://www.qassociates.co.uk/academic/84a.htm#2 >> > >> > Sun Fire X4600 x64 server:  >> > A67-QGZ8-4S-032CB1  >> >7 >> >      * 8xAMD Opteron Model 885 dual-core processor " >> >      * 16x2GB DDR1-400 memory >> >      * 2x73GB SAS drive >> >      * DVD-ROM $ >> >      * 4xPSU, Service Processor. >> >      * 4x10/100/1000 BaseT Ethernet ports >> >      * 4xUSB 2.0 ports > >> >      * 2xPCI-X slots, 6x PCI-E slots (4x8-lane, 2x4-lane) >> >      * no power cord ' >> >      * order Geo-specific x-option  >> >      * RoHS-5" >> >      * Standard Configuration >> >( >> > Academic Price: 	43,400  ($80,000) >> > >> >I >> > Although 8-socket boards have been around for a while, Sun are the    >> first >> > tier one vendor to ship.  >>& >> Looks like a good system to run VMS > 9 > I wonder if SRI is working on a Charon for Solaris.....  > E Simh should work.  BTW, have you see the price of the Tx fee for 66x0 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html? I wonder, do those extension licenses actually come with a pak?      --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:20:16 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ; Subject: Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server 9 Message-ID: <orydnVRp_8qi1R3ZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@libcom.com>    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:   Q > I'd think that VMS being just on Itanium is a disincentive. However porting VMS L > to 64 bit 8086 is just the first step to attracting non-current customers. >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  J Oh no!  JF has another person using '8086' when referring to current CPUs.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 03:28:27 -0700  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Personal noteC Message-ID: <1149244107.023569.163190@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>   F Good luck with the operation Sue.  Take care with recovery and we hope to see you back soon.    Steve   
 Sue wrote: > My Dear Friends, > F > Since tomorrow is my last day for a number of weeks I wanted to sendI > you this note today, tomorrow I will be finishing up some loose ends at E > the office. I will be having surgery for a total knee replacment on 	 > Monday.  > @ > Those of you that know me well know that I am a planner and anH > organizer by nature and I have always been that way.  No kidding, evenI > when I was a child I sorted my cloths by color.  And not to be to weird D > but I alphabetized my books which was a huge task for a person whoI > loved to read and surrounded by sisters who could care less about order F > of books ;').  So why am I telling you this.  Since I am going to beH > out for the next 6-8 weeks and things could happen I want to say a few
 > things.. > I > In Japanese the word sayonara means "if it must me so" so if it must be H > so please stick with my ramblings and then delete them at a later date+ > when it is apparent that is all they are.  > @ > I am very fortunate to know and love people from all over thisG > beautiful planet of ours.  When we get together we say we have VMS in F > common which we do but I see so much more in you. You are beautiful,F > passionate and more powerful than you think. The OpenVMS AmbassadorsG > symbol is a Gryphon which is a protector of the treasure of kings (or D > knights in shinning armor) which really applies to everyone in theB > community.  I think that to code someone needs to  learn C, C++,F > Fortran Basic but to create such an elegant OS like VMS takes a realC > team of exceptional artists.  But normally if you take a bunch of I > highly creative artists and put them together they can't work in a team F > but the VMS group is different  - we can break the mold. Because, weB > can and have become more than just a group of co-workers, we areE > friends or family.  That family is not just in the VMS group in ZK. H > It's the folks that we have known for years the customers the partnersH > who might as well be part of the group.  They are the ones that arriveF > to our events 2 days early so they can help set up or send mail whenG > they hear another customer is at risk or down load field test kits as G > soon as they become available even if its 2am because they want to or ? > partners that port overnight because they want to be first or G > distributors that work so close with our customers that the customers H > can't tell if they are HP or not.  There is not one of you that is notI > important, to me, to VMS or to our customers. And I wanted to say Thank : > you for the work you do every day to make this possible. > H > Those of you that know me and have been to an awards dinner, know thatG > one if my favorite quotes is from Dr Martin Luther King which is also G > in the hallway here in ZKO which says ""The ultimate measure of a man I > is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where I > he stands at times of challenge and controversy."  Its very easy to say E > I support something when its going your way, VMS is 29 years old we H > have had easy times and not so easy times and we have had our share ofE > controversy that's for sure so I wanted to say -  Thank you for all  > your support over the years  > E > We have had Three Companies, six CEO's, Three Architectures and One  > VMS, because we have one team  > C > Thank you for being the people you are and thank you for being my , > friends, you make a difference in my life. > F > If you are in the neighborhood I would welcome your visit or a phone > call.  >  > Sue Skonetski  > 81 Back River Road > Merrimack, NH 03054  >  >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:27:59 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Personal note0 Message-ID: <00A5699E.89E9AA79@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <1149212721.821428.226040@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:  {...snip..} G >Those of you that know me and have been to an awards dinner, know that F >one if my favorite quotes is from Dr Martin Luther King which is alsoF >in the hallway here in ZKO which says ""The ultimate measure of a manH >is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but whereH >he stands at times of challenge and controversy."  Its very easy to sayD >I support something when its going your way, VMS is 29 years old weG >have had easy times and not so easy times and we have had our share of D >controversy that's for sure so I wanted to say -  Thank you for all >your support over the years  H I understand that quote probably more than anyone here.  I am very happyH that I got to the last bootcamp even though there was/is a great deal ofH challenge and controversy in my personal life.  Sue knows and thanks for the special hug Sue.  I FWIW, I was hit by a car just after I graduated from High School.  Multi- H ple bone fracture and my left leg was completely crushed.  Believe it orH not, I started college in the fall in a full leg length plaster cast andI numerous titanium pins through said cast to hold bone fragments in place. I I wore this cast for 2 full years and it took me another to learn to walk I again.  It was a painful and arduous experience but I came through it.  I 2 know you will come though your ordeal as well Sue.  - Good luck and hurry back to fill my emailbox.    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 06:23:16 -0700  From: davidc@montagar.com  Subject: Re: Personal noteC Message-ID: <1149254596.157660.128980@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   
 Sue wrote:I > In Japanese the word sayonara means "if it must me so" so if it must be H > so please stick with my ramblings and then delete them at a later date+ > when it is apparent that is all they are.   ? Are you kidding?  Your ramblings are more fun than some peoples  "well-thought-out" prose!   D You're an amazing, strong, and passionate person, and if you can getE through 3 companies, and 6 CEO's (some more than others!), this might C not be as hard as you think :-)  Speedy recovery, Sue!  Millions of  prayers are with you!   * If there's anything I can do, let me know.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 09:09:53 -0700 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>' Subject: SA 5300A initial configuration C Message-ID: <1149264593.569113.153720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   F Got our first SA 5300A raid controller in today in a DS10.  I've got aA split bus shelf with three 36GB drives on each of the two busses.   A ORCA is not well documented in what I've been able to find.  When E trying to create a logical volume to use as a system disk, it appears F the choices are the full capacity of whatever setup is created; if youE create a 0+1 mirror you get a 33.xGB logical drive, and if you create F an N-disk Raid 5 you get whatever the total capacity is as the logicalG disk.  Is there any way to present a smaller logical disk to the system  when you're stuck with ORCA?  C The ACU-XE docs imply that you can set the size of the logical disk G smaller than the size of the array you created, then use that available E space to make more logical disks later.  Since ACU-XE requires VMS to C be up and running, and that requires that a (big ORCA) logical disk E already be created, can that logical disk used as the VMS system disk A be resized down to allow use of the  excess space for one or more  logical disks?  F We need to present 5 "spindles" to VMS in order to ease a VAX to AlphaD transition, with the 5300A providing the redundancy/data protection.G If we're stuck with what ORCA provides for the system disk I'll have to C just use two disks as a system disk mirror, wasting a lot of space, G then the other four (or 3 + spare) in a Raid5 to present the other four % spindles.  Not an ideal use of space.    Thanks.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 09:22:55 -0700 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>+ Subject: Re: SA 5300A initial configuration C Message-ID: <1149265375.655775.201750@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   G BTW, whose idea was it to use F8 for entering the ORCA utility, and for B confirming creation of a logical drive, requesting deletion of theE logical drive, but then demanding F3 for _confirming_ deletion of the @ logical drive?  That sort of doesn't work if you are on a serialB console (VT510 or a serial connected VAXstation are both unable to. delete the drive) because F3 is a local key...   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 09:29:30 -0700 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>+ Subject: Re: SA 5300A initial configuration C Message-ID: <1149265770.803783.143900@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D Scratch that last.  Saw the needed info (<esc>-3) flitting by on theD screen when it reinitialized.  I haven't found that in the docs yet.   Rich   Rich Jordan wrote:I > BTW, whose idea was it to use F8 for entering the ORCA utility, and for D > confirming creation of a logical drive, requesting deletion of theG > logical drive, but then demanding F3 for _confirming_ deletion of the B > logical drive?  That sort of doesn't work if you are on a serialD > console (VT510 or a serial connected VAXstation are both unable to0 > delete the drive) because F3 is a local key...   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 09:29:31 -0700  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk+ Subject: Re: SA 5300A initial configuration B Message-ID: <1149265771.061200.318740@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  D FWIW, I don't think that the system disk can be an array drive off aG Smart Array.  In what I've seen, the raid disks come into VMS as DPAxxx = devices, for which the driver only gets loaded once there's a ) reasonable amount of VMS already started.   D If you want to boot off a disk on the array it has to be a dedicated spindle.   Steve    Rich Jordan wrote:I > BTW, whose idea was it to use F8 for entering the ORCA utility, and for D > confirming creation of a logical drive, requesting deletion of theG > logical drive, but then demanding F3 for _confirming_ deletion of the B > logical drive?  That sort of doesn't work if you are on a serialD > console (VT510 or a serial connected VAXstation are both unable to0 > delete the drive) because F3 is a local key...   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 04:27:14 -0700 % From: "Malav" <malavshah11@gmail.com> , Subject: Set volume label programmatically ?C Message-ID: <1149247634.063097.134720@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   D Is there a way of setting the volume label programmatically on VMS ?= Any system services to achive the same as SET VOLUME / LABEL     -Malav   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:59:26 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: Set volume label programmatically ?1 Message-ID: <inYfg.1420$5R5.164@news.cpqcorp.net>    Malav wrote: > Hi,  > F > Is there a way of setting the volume label programmatically on VMS ?? > Any system services to achive the same as SET VOLUME / LABEL   >  > -Malav >   H I don't think so.  I did a quick scan of the code for SET VOLUME and it 6 is does it 'by hand'.  So you are left with LIB$SPAWN.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 06:49:24 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: The Minimum You Need to Know 9 Message-ID: <BIUfg.1709$Su3.151795@news20.bellglobal.com>   J If you haven't yet purchased a copy of "The Minimum You Need to Know to BeI an OpenVMS Application Developer" then you should check out the following L link where author Roland Hughes has published all of Chapter #1 as a teaser. http://www.logikalsolutions.com L As I stated previously, this is the best OpenVMS programming guide I've seen in 15 years.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:40:21 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe) Message-ID: <e5othl$r94$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <447F34B6.E09DFEEA@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:Q >> Linux is adequate for most needs and is credible as a platform for the future. J >> Traditional commercial Unix systems look like they are going to be very >> badly squeezed. >  > H >When you consider that Solaris is now "free" and also runs on the 8086,@ >is it still at a big disadvantage versus Linux in terms of real >onwership costs ? > F >I can see Linux having an edge against Solaris for pilot projects andE >"R&D" where some geek can bring in a free Linux on some spare PC and G >demo some software to his bosses and a geek can find patches, software J >etc on the net designed for Linmux probably more easily than for Solaris. > B >But when the time comes to deploy this commercially to handle hisF >employer's real data, wouldn't Solaris end up being a more robust and >better supported solution ?  L Unfortunately for Sun I think it's too late. In the University, although we N used to have a lot of Sun fanatics amongst the Academics and some Sun systems K in the datacentre, all I hear nowadays is about deploying things on Linux.  M Not a word about deploying anything on Solaris. (a few years ago it was very  M different. When we were looking at moving our admin systems from VMS to Unix  H because the applications were no longer supported on VMS the choice was ' exclusively between TRU64 and Solaris).   
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 07:51:14 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <Ag30HWowCH6L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4e8b6hF1ahl9iU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > 6 > Boy would I like to see a list of those needs!!  :-)  B    A kernel which can do hard real time is at the top of the list.  C    Linus originally wanted the kernel (which he controls) to remain F    simple (the same design criteria was selected for the original UNIXH    kernel).  You need a fairly complex kernel to do both timesharing and    real time effectively.     H    Linus felt that the issues brought up by real time should be handled G    by the hardware.  Now he seems to realise that there are processors  I    in that "hardware" and software in those processors.  Real time Linux  G    vendors have contributed to the Linux kernel and Linus has accepted      those changes.   H    I don't ever expect real time Linux to keep up with pure real time OSG    like VxWorks, but if a real effort is made it could keep up with the F    VMS kernel.  That, however, would take a bigger change than I think&    most vendors are willing to donate.  D    Meanwhile VxWorks is becoming complex enough to offer some of theG    features not traditionally found in pure real time OS (like separate G    memory maps for every task).  Those of us who use it are not running     away from it.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 07:52:11 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <jnbFehHX4qav@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <447F34B6.E09DFEEA@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > C > But when the time comes to deploy this commercially to handle his G > employer's real data, wouldn't Solaris end up being a more robust and  > better supported solution ?   F    What evidence do you have that Sun provides a more robust or better#    supported solution than Rad Hat?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 13:08:29 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4earidF1cmtd7U1@individual.net>  3 In article <VNYEfbF+esdf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y > In article <4e95diF1dpqfoU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > O >> DIBOL goes back to my Cadilac argument.  There is nothing done in DIBOL that % >> can't be done in another language.  > - > "Use my existing DIBOL code" comes to mind.   H I realize that, and specifically addressed the concept. But that is likeJ saying the VMS is unsatisfactory for doing  things because it doesn't haveG a fork() call.  There is nothing that is done on Unix using fork() that H can't be done on VMS using VMS's native system calls, except compile the Unix code!!!  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 05:46:56 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybeC Message-ID: <1149252416.070001.296790@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > N > DIBOL goes back to my Cadilac argument.  There is nothing done in DIBOL that$ > can't be done in another language.  ; Synergy DIBOL can do alot of things vax DIBOL could not ... : and it can do a lot of things that even "C" cannot, and it5 can do things other languages can do but do them in a > better, less convuluted way ... has xfserver interconnectivity: tool to allow dibol to run windoze front end to a VMS back; end ... and it also allows easy portability between vms and ; windoze/linux/unix as it runs on all of these platforms ... > has xml and .net support along with a ton of other goodies ...   www.synergex.com  3 do not speak about products you know nothing about!    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 05:47:34 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybeB Message-ID: <1149252454.091189.37000@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:O > > Ada, COBOL, Fortran and Pascal are all readily available (even in different B > > flavors) for various Unixes.  Tom will have to answer to PL/I. > + > http://home.nycap.rr.com/pflass/candt.htm C > Please note that there is no compiler listed for Itanic.  Tom has J > written back in 2004 that his company would port their compiler in 2005,8 > but their home page says nothing about such a product. >  > >>And yes, even DIBOL :-)  > E > Try www.dibol.com.  I can't figure out to what extend they actually  > support DIBOL.  ; Synergy DIBOL can do alot of things vax DIBOL could not ... : and it can do a lot of things that even "C" cannot, and it5 can do things other languages can do but do them in a > better, less convuluted way ... has xfserver interconnectivity: tool to allow dibol to run windoze front end to a VMS back; end ... and it also allows easy portability between vms and ; windoze/linux/unix as it runs on all of these platforms ... > has xml and .net support along with a ton of other goodies ...   www.synergex.com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 07:59:49 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <nC7wPXqWtWJe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <D-WdnYIXO7nsq-LZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > J > But that's just what I did.  Remove the history of Unix running on just K > about every platform out there now or in the past, and judge them solely   > on OS capabilities.   G    The history of UNIX's portability is of less interest now that there &    are only a few viable architecures.  
    Lets see:  -       1) IA-32 will be around for a while yet        2) IA-32 extended to 64        3) PPC$       4) IA-64 if HP/Intel get lucky        5) SPARC if Sun gets lucky  J    So that's 3, maybe 5.  IMHO HP could port VMS to a couple more without     breaking the bank.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 08:03:09 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <W+BrEIAKzT7o@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4e950iF1dpqfoU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: ; > In article <D-Wdnb0XO7lBq-LZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>  F >> Well it's my understanding that one of them is near real time data G >> collection, (correct me if I'm wrong Bob), and he's stated multiple  5 >> times in the past that Unix isn't up to his needs.  > H > Well, I'm probably wrong again, but I wouldn't think that VMS was hardF > realtime either.  And there are versions of Unix and linux that haveH > been modified to do realtime, but I don;t think they are hard realtime0 > either.  Isn't that what VAXELN was all about?  C    We've been doing hard real time on VMS since the earliest 11/780     systems shipped.   D    It can't keep up with pure real time OS like VxWorks, but it runsE    circles around traditional UNIX.  UNIX that have been enhanced for E    real time (like Solaris) can't keep up with VMS in this ball game. F    And VMS is a whole lot simpler to work with than any pure real timeH    OS I've seen, so it's still my platform of choice when I'm not forced    to a pure real time OS.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 08:06:58 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <TVas4OX$$tM0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J In article <e5othl$r94$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > N > Unfortunately for Sun I think it's too late. In the University, although we P > used to have a lot of Sun fanatics amongst the Academics and some Sun systems M > in the datacentre, all I hear nowadays is about deploying things on Linux.  O > Not a word about deploying anything on Solaris. (a few years ago it was very  O > different. When we were looking at moving our admin systems from VMS to Unix  J > because the applications were no longer supported on VMS the choice was ) > exclusively between TRU64 and Solaris).  >   G    I see the same thing in industry and government.  When a "cheap" Sun B    used to be deployed a PC with Linux is now used.  Just as folksD    ported from VMS to UNIX in the late 80's and early 90's, I'm now #    seeing ports from UNIX to Linux.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:11:15 -0500 / From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe0 Message-ID: <0J-dnR95coFupR3Z4p2dnA@comcast.com>  , In article <447F34B6.E09DFEEA@teksavvy.com>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:Q >> Linux is adequate for most needs and is credible as a platform for the future. J >> Traditional commercial Unix systems look like they are going to be very >> badly squeezed. >  > H >When you consider that Solaris is now "free" and also runs on the 8086,@ >is it still at a big disadvantage versus Linux in terms of real >onwership costs ?  @ Maybe... at least the Linux patches are available freely withoutG contract support.  It may be more likely in embedded apps or on turnkey  boxes.  B Linux patching with yum and apt is easier as well from what I see.   > F >I can see Linux having an edge against Solaris for pilot projects andE >"R&D" where some geek can bring in a free Linux on some spare PC and G >demo some software to his bosses and a geek can find patches, software J >etc on the net designed for Linmux probably more easily than for Solaris. >    Exactly.  B >But when the time comes to deploy this commercially to handle hisF >employer's real data, wouldn't Solaris end up being a more robust and >better supported solution ?  8 Depends whether Sun does a 180 on the x86 version again.E Can't tell what will happen if Sun goes the way of DEC.  Solaris code  could be sold off to SCO etc.   2 Plus you have the full source available for Linux.  H Also, as a platform grows it becomes a major test target for the vendor.E Perhaps Solaris x86 gets tested as well as Sparc by Oracle... but I'm ; pretty sure they're testing RedHat as a major platform now.   H I used to work for Pyramid Technologies who were big multiprocessor UnixF boxes and used by Oracle fairly heavily as a top platform.  As Pyramid> sunk into the swap I'm sure they dropped OS/x and later DC/OSx as a test platform.   & I hope Sun doesn't have the same fate.  > At least with Open Source you have no need to worry about code  availability to fix it yourself.  G Kind of like cars were in the 60's.  Shade tree mechanics could pick up @ the tools and work on them.  With the newer digital controls and2 electronics you're pretty much out of the running.  G The Open Source nature of Linux is it's big win not necessarily the low  cost.    (Although I use it for both...)    Bill     --   --  H   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!#   pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:14:02 -0500 / From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe0 Message-ID: <0J-dnR55coEHpB3Z4p2dnA@comcast.com>  3 In article <W+BrEIAKzT7o@eisner.encompasserve.org>, : Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:D >In article <4e950iF1dpqfoU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill >Gunshannon) writes:< >> In article <D-Wdnb0XO7lBq-LZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@libcom.com>,- >> 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>> G >>> Well it's my understanding that one of them is near real time data  H >>> collection, (correct me if I'm wrong Bob), and he's stated multiple 6 >>> times in the past that Unix isn't up to his needs. >>  I >> Well, I'm probably wrong again, but I wouldn't think that VMS was hard G >> realtime either.  And there are versions of Unix and linux that have I >> been modified to do realtime, but I don;t think they are hard realtime 1 >> either.  Isn't that what VAXELN was all about?  > D >   We've been doing hard real time on VMS since the earliest 11/780 >   systems shipped. > E >   It can't keep up with pure real time OS like VxWorks, but it runs F >   circles around traditional UNIX.  UNIX that have been enhanced forF >   real time (like Solaris) can't keep up with VMS in this ball game.G >   And VMS is a whole lot simpler to work with than any pure real time I >   OS I've seen, so it's still my platform of choice when I'm not forced  >   to a pure real time OS.  >   ; The Linux stuff gets closer to it than traditional Unix...  F I remember RTU where Masscomp grafted the EMT's like RSX onto Unix for soft realtime.  H There's no way I'll knock VMS -- but I'm pretty sure Linux could do whatB you want -- depending on the time investment you'd like to put in.   Bill --   --  H   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!#   pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:43:02 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe) Message-ID: <op.taitp0xplvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   2 On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:06:58 -0700, Bob Koehler  =  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  G > In article <e5othl$r94$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  =   	 > writes:  >>E >> Unfortunately for Sun I think it's too late. In the University,  =    >> although weI >> used to have a lot of Sun fanatics amongst the Academics and some Sun=    =   
 >> systemsI >> in the datacentre, all I hear nowadays is about deploying things on  =   	 >> Linux. I >> Not a word about deploying anything on Solaris. (a few years ago it w=  as  =    >> very I >> different. When we were looking at moving our admin systems from VMS =  to  =    >> Unix I >> because the applications were no longer supported on VMS the choice w=  as* >> exclusively between TRU64 and Solaris). >> > I >    I see the same thing in industry and government.  When a "cheap" Su=  n D >    used to be deployed a PC with Linux is now used.  Just as folksE >    ported from VMS to UNIX in the late 80's and early 90's, I'm now % >    seeing ports from UNIX to Linux.  > G Tru64 was a pretty wel-crafted Unix.  The decision to cancel Trucluster I in favor of Veritas irritated many customers and then cancellation of Tr=  u64 I on favor of HP-UX was like asking cutomers to get out of their S-class a=  ndI into the Chevy.   Trtu64 had a very nice graphical interface for sys mgm=  t      -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 14:01:48 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4eaumcF1e7tqtU1@individual.net>  3 In article <Ag30HWowCH6L@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <4e8b6hF1ahl9iU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  7 >> Boy would I like to see a list of those needs!!  :-)  > D >    A kernel which can do hard real time is at the top of the list.  D OK, I learned something else.  I didn't think VMS was hard realtime.   > E >    Linus originally wanted the kernel (which he controls) to remain   F Well, he controls the msainstream Linux kernel.  That doesn't stop the# realtime guys from doing their own.   H >    simple (the same design criteria was selected for the original UNIX >    kernel).     F True,  I know AT&T did a realtime kernel (used to run the phone systemD at one time, that's why they created the WE32000 family and the realD 3B line, not to be confused witht he 3B1) but I don't know that they ever let it out of house.   I >             You need a fairly complex kernel to do both timesharing and  >    real time effectively.    > J >    Linus felt that the issues brought up by real time should be handled  >    by the hardware.     - Yeah, proving once again that Andy was right.   I >                      Now he seems to realise that there are processors  K >    in that "hardware" and software in those processors.  Real time Linux  I >    vendors have contributed to the Linux kernel and Linus has accepted   >    those changes.  > J >    I don't ever expect real time Linux to keep up with pure real time OSI >    like VxWorks, but if a real effort is made it could keep up with the H >    VMS kernel.  That, however, would take a bigger change than I think( >    most vendors are willing to donate.  G I don't htink Linux will ever catch up with or keep up with any serious  kernel.  Too much baggage.   > F >    Meanwhile VxWorks is becoming complex enough to offer some of theI >    features not traditionally found in pure real time OS (like separate I >    memory maps for every task).  Those of us who use it are not running  >    away from it.   F But, can I take it you are also using VMS for realtime tasks?  AnotherC facet of VMS I was unfamiliar with.  Where would I read about doing F realtime programming on VMS?  We have a professor who teaches a courseB in realtime here and he might be convince to at least touch on VMS	 realtime.    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 14:10:04 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4eav5rF1e7tqtU2@individual.net>  3 In article <nC7wPXqWtWJe@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > In article <D-WdnYIXO7nsq-LZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>  K >> But that's just what I did.  Remove the history of Unix running on just  L >> about every platform out there now or in the past, and judge them solely  >> on OS capabilities. > I >    The history of UNIX's portability is of less interest now that there ( >    are only a few viable architecures. >  >    Lets see:  / >       1) IA-32 will be around for a while yet  >       2) IA-32 extended to 64  >       3) PPC& >       4) IA-64 if HP/Intel get lucky" >       5) SPARC if Sun gets lucky  F Actually, there are a lot of others that Unix runs quite nicely on andH are not going away anytime soon, like ARM and other embedded processors.I Right now, linux has most of these sewed up but BSD (finally) is starting F to look at moving into more niches than it has traditionally occupied.J And there are other processors in the embedded world are more than capableH of using Unix.  Have you looked inside any of those COTS network devicesI like Access Points, Smart Switches and Web Cams lately?   I don't know if G these processors are worth the effort of a VMS port, but a more limited E version of VMS (historically done before ala MicroVMS) could probably 0 be used for some of these embedded applications.   > L >    So that's 3, maybe 5.  IMHO HP could port VMS to a couple more without  >    breaking the bank.   G I don't know that 5 is worth the cost or effort, but 2 and 3 would sure F be nice.  And, I suspect profitable, if you could just get the cone ofH silence lifted from VMS marketing.  Without some major changes there any; engineering changes are just money flushed down the toilet.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 14:31:56 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4eb0esF1dkcviU2@individual.net>  0 In article <0J-dnR95coFupR3Z4p2dnA@comcast.com>,2 	pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes: > I > The Open Source nature of Linux is it's big win not necessarily the low  > cost.   E And there is a technically superior Unix OS that is allso Open Source E and not infected with the Gnu Public Virus but people still choose to , bet their businesses on Linux.  Go figure!!!   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:36:03 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe9 Message-ID: <IfGdne27pdVp1h3ZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bill Pechter wrote: 5 > In article <W+BrEIAKzT7o@eisner.encompasserve.org>, < > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:F >> In article <4e950iF1dpqfoU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill >> Gunshannon) writes:= >>> In article <D-Wdnb0XO7lBq-LZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@libcom.com>, . >>> 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:H >>>> Well it's my understanding that one of them is near real time data I >>>> collection, (correct me if I'm wrong Bob), and he's stated multiple  7 >>>> times in the past that Unix isn't up to his needs. J >>> Well, I'm probably wrong again, but I wouldn't think that VMS was hardH >>> realtime either.  And there are versions of Unix and linux that haveJ >>> been modified to do realtime, but I don;t think they are hard realtime2 >>> either.  Isn't that what VAXELN was all about?E >>   We've been doing hard real time on VMS since the earliest 11/780  >>   systems shipped.  >>F >>   It can't keep up with pure real time OS like VxWorks, but it runsG >>   circles around traditional UNIX.  UNIX that have been enhanced for G >>   real time (like Solaris) can't keep up with VMS in this ball game. H >>   And VMS is a whole lot simpler to work with than any pure real timeJ >>   OS I've seen, so it's still my platform of choice when I'm not forced >>   to a pure real time OS. >> > = > The Linux stuff gets closer to it than traditional Unix...  H > I remember RTU where Masscomp grafted the EMT's like RSX onto Unix for > soft realtime. > J > There's no way I'll knock VMS -- but I'm pretty sure Linux could do whatD > you want -- depending on the time investment you'd like to put in. >  > Bill  D What type of time investment are you thinking of here?  Bob clearly D states "And VMS is a whole lot simpler to work with".  I'd guess he F feels that his time is valuable.  One could write their own real-time ? OS, "-- depending on the time investment you'd like to put in".    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:42:32 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe) Message-ID: <op.taiy86zglvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   I On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 07:10:04 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>  =    wrote:  I > Actually, there are a lot of others that Unix runs quite nicely on and=   I > are not going away anytime soon, like ARM and other embedded processor=  s.I > Right now, linux has most of these sewed up but BSD (finally) is start=  ing I > to look at moving into more niches than it has traditionally occupied.=   G > And there are other processors in the embedded world are more than  =   	 > capable I > of using Unix.  Have you looked inside any of those COTS network devic=  esI > like Access Points, Smart Switches and Web Cams lately?   I don't know=   if I > these processors are worth the effort of a VMS port, but a more limite=  d G > version of VMS (historically done before ala MicroVMS) could probably 2 > be used for some of these embedded applications.  B I don't know if it's true or not, but IOS which runs on Cisco gear reminds me of BSD.   -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 16:11:47 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4eb6a3F1d7opmU1@individual.net>  ) In article <op.taiy86zglvpiaf@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K > On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 07:10:04 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>  =  >  > wrote: > J >> Actually, there are a lot of others that Unix runs quite nicely on and= > J >> are not going away anytime soon, like ARM and other embedded processor= > s.J >> Right now, linux has most of these sewed up but BSD (finally) is start= > ing J >> to look at moving into more niches than it has traditionally occupied.= > H >> And there are other processors in the embedded world are more than  = > 
 >> capableJ >> of using Unix.  Have you looked inside any of those COTS network devic= > esJ >> like Access Points, Smart Switches and Web Cams lately?   I don't know= >  if J >> these processors are worth the effort of a VMS port, but a more limite= > d H >> version of VMS (historically done before ala MicroVMS) could probably3 >> be used for some of these embedded applications.  > D > I don't know if it's true or not, but IOS which runs on Cisco gear > reminds me of BSD. >   I I don't remember if the current versions are BSD based or not (I remember H doing something to find out when I was in Cisco Academy last year) but I% can tell you they are built with GCC.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 16:16:34 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4eb6j1F1d7opmU2@individual.net>  C By the way, if people notice I am suddenly gone I don't want anyone E to think they made me mad and I took my ball and went home. (That is, D if anyone even cares.  :-)  I am leaving the office very shortly forD my two weeks with the National Guard and may or may not have network access during this time.  + All the best to everyone and good luck Sue.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 09:29:09 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybeC Message-ID: <1149265749.746012.268370@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:Y > In article <4e95diF1dpqfoU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > P > > DIBOL goes back to my Cadilac argument.  There is nothing done in DIBOL that& > > can't be done in another language. > - > "Use my existing DIBOL code" comes to mind.   G Back in the 80's we had DIBOL app's running on CTS-300/500 (PDP-11) and C VAX. We also had DISC's DBL (100% DIBOL compatible) running on TSX+ C systems. We also had some of the same app's running under MS-DOS on D Rainbow using Softbol (also 100% DIBOL compatible; Softbol was later< bought out by DISC). In house we mostly used MicroVAX II for development.  G We were asked to port an application to an Altos 386 running Xenix, and B we easily did so. Now, granted, the MVII was running DIBOL and theG Altos was running DBL but the little Altos ran circles around the MVII. 8 No benchmarks, just observation. Everything was quicker.  G When DEC announced Alpha, they also announced that DIBOL would *not* be F ported over. That left DISC, who later changed their name to Synergex,G as the only DIBOL game left. Synergex later changed the language's name @ to Synergy DBL, then dropped the DBL name except in the compilerF license. The language is available on almost any platform anyone would want.   E A few years ago we were asked to port some stuff over to Windows, and C we did. If you program carefully and take advantage of compile time G directives and use wrappers for OS specific functions, porting anywhere F is a breeze compared to most other languages. And, since it comes withC its own RMS-like file system, the data is also easily portable (VMS  version uses RMS).  F I'm not as religious about DIBOL/DBL/Synergy as some here, but it sure is nice to work with.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 17:06:09 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe, Message-ID: <4eb9g1F1dj60cU1@individual.net>  ) In article <op.tai1izjelvpiaf@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:16:34 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   > wrote: > F >> By the way, if people notice I am suddenly gone I don't want anyoneH >> to think they made me mad and I took my ball and went home. (That is,G >> if anyone even cares.  :-)  I am leaving the office very shortly for G >> my two weeks with the National Guard and may or may not have network  >> access during this time.  >>. >> All the best to everyone and good luck Sue. >> >> bill  >>H > Tell them you VMS and PL/I, they might assign you to the Office of the > President:-)  G Sorry to disappoint you but while I can't speak to PL/I I have searched F extensively for DA locations that need someone with VMS experience andF turned up exactly 0.  I had one Col. come back and say he used to workH with VMS, but that particular site was long gone.  If you know someplaceE in DA that still uses VMS, please let me know. (I know that there are G places in DA that run Charon VAX, but they seem to be strictly on life- H support with no work being done beyond keeping some legacy app running.)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 12:26:36 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <cA4nr2eyNRiE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <0J-dnR55coEHpB3Z4p2dnA@comcast.com>, pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes: > J > There's no way I'll knock VMS -- but I'm pretty sure Linux could do whatD > you want -- depending on the time investment you'd like to put in.  B    In it's current state the only way Linux could keep up with theE    things I do on VMS, is if I through out the Linux kernel (which IS ?    Linux) and kept all the gnu code that makes it a useable OS.   D    Or I could use one of the products which runs Linux as the lowest@    priority task on top of a real-tmie OS, but then I don't feel#    I'm using Linux to do real time.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 13:10:16 -0200 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: [MAILUAF] Newer version with RENAME ?* Message-ID: <448038b8@news.langstoeger.at>  _ In article <1JUN06.21061046@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <GreenwoodDE@ornl.gov> writes: K >The version of MAILUAF I have has a 'NAME' command which renames a record:  >  >MAILUAF> help >  >        [snip] ( >        NAME old new      Rename a user >        [snip]  > J >I think that's been a part of MAILUAF since I first got a copy (somewhere >between 1989 and 1993).  D Thanks for the information, but my MAILUAF seems to be from 1995 and  
 $  mailuaf
 MAILUAF> name F %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \NAME\   ) Maybe I find your/a newer version soon...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 14:10:02 -0200 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: [VT200 and up] Defining UDK, Message-ID: <448046ba$1@news.langstoeger.at>  H I once had (and maybe even wrote it) a little program to make use of theH User Definable Keys (UDK) of a VT220 be translating the definitions in aH textfile to escape sequences sent. I had F6-F20 with three different UDKG meanings (Shift, Control and Shift-Control) defined (in addition to the < normal definition, which is an unchangeable escape sequence)  K After some years I wanted to use this goodie again and noted some problems:   G *) PuTTY (and other TELNET/SSH clients) seem(s) to not like UDKs at all  (display the escape sequences)  F *) DECterm do support them (at least there is a "Lock UDK" in "GeneralA Options" ;-) but work only partly (Shift F10-F20, not the rest!?)   J *) I have no documentation of the keymap config file (it is REALLY simple)D and get now some OUTCONERR errors which I'd like to get nailed down.  @ *) I probably lost the source code (maybe on an old TK85 from myD currently nonworking TZ87) so can't debug it (and port to Itanic ;-)    H Do you have experience with UDKs? (like defining commands for systems orG programs without a DEFINE/KEY feature like DECservers, ORACLE SQL, ...)   H Do you perhaps know the official state of UDKs in DECterm (and why F6-F9 don't work, at least here)?   H Do you know of a freeware (before I rewrite from scratch, probably againJ in Fortran, after finding/reading the VT200 programmers guide I once had)?   TIA    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.305 ************************