1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 03 Jun 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 306       Contents: Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc Re: .txt to .doc; Re: 5305 (ALPHAserver 1200), switch, speed, full duplex etc  AMD P Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity  Servers -  SeP Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity  Servers -  SeG Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - K Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - K Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - P Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - ServP Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - ServP Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - ServO Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for IntegrityServers  -  -- 	 Re: DN-11 A Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000? - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers 
 Re: Kill self  Middleware Test Support / Re: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233.  Re: Personal note  Re: Personal note  runaway bash in GNV  Re: runaway bash in GNV " Re: SA 5300A initial configuration" Re: SA 5300A initial configuration' Re: Set volume label programmatically ? ' Re: Set volume label programmatically ? ' Re: Set volume label programmatically ? ' Re: Set volume label programmatically ? ' Re: Set volume label programmatically ? . RE: Sun axes 5000 jobs but gains market share. Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  RE: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  RE: Unix runs faster, maybe  Re: [VT200 and up] Defining UDK  Re: [VT200 and up] Defining UDK   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 11:06:25 -0700  From: himansu114@gmail.com Subject: Re: .txt to .doc C Message-ID: <1149271585.305355.122700@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   E We are running processes on the alpha and the final reports are ftp'd  to aD client's site.  The client doesn;'t want to have to convert the .txt files into .doc  format.        John Malmberg wrote: > himansu114@gmail.com wrote:  > > Hello everyone,  > > J > > Anyone know how to convert .txt file in DCL (alpha os) to .doc format.H > > (I usually ftp the .txt and use a Word macro to convert from .txt to
 > > .doc). > E > Is there a specific reason that the file needs to be in a Microsoft  > proprietary format?  > H > Especially given that Microsoft Word, Notepad, Write, and Wordpad, andI > most other Microsoft applications are able to display the contents of a 4 > plain text file just fine with out any conversion. > I > > ** Is there any code out there that I can place DCL to do this on the 
 > > alpha. > < > I do not even understand why a Word macro would be needed. >  > -John # > malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  > Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 11:16:06 -0700  From: himansu114@gmail.com Subject: Re: .txt to .doc C Message-ID: <1149272166.217159.135840@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>   D Which version of the alpha should I be running.  I have version 5.0.  E ** Are there any DCL scripts out there?  Any help will be appricated.    JF Mezei wrote:  > himansu114@gmail.com wrote: J > > Anyone know how to convert .txt file in DCL (alpha os) to .doc format.H > > (I usually ftp the .txt and use a Word macro to convert from .txt to
 > > .doc). >   > It is an old WORD version but: > B > $CONVERT/DOCUMENT myfile.txt/format=TEXT myfile.doc/format=WORD5 > > > (I believe that the CDA converters are now in the freeware). > G > There are a whole bunch of options you can specify in an optiosn file I > that steer the converters with specification of fonts, margins etc etc.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:38:55 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: .txt to .doc Q Message-ID: <OF5EFA9ACB.95606709-ON85257181.00662087-85257181.0066693A@metso.com>   5 himansu114@gmail.com wrote on 06/02/2006 02:06:25 PM:   G > We are running processes on the alpha and the final reports are ftp'd  > to aF > client's site.  The client doesn;'t want to have to convert the .txt > files into .doc 	 > format.  >   F Not OpenVMS, but ISTM there is a text to RTF/Word converter in MSWord,A so opening the file will effect the conversion.  I'd wonder (if I < cared) how the client was using the files so this step hurt.   >  >  > John Malmberg wrote: > > himansu114@gmail.com wrote:  > > > Hello everyone,  > > > D > > > Anyone know how to convert .txt file in DCL (alpha os) to .doc format. J > > > (I usually ftp the .txt and use a Word macro to convert from .txt to > > > .doc). > > G > > Is there a specific reason that the file needs to be in a Microsoft  > > proprietary format?  > > J > > Especially given that Microsoft Word, Notepad, Write, and Wordpad, andK > > most other Microsoft applications are able to display the contents of a 6 > > plain text file just fine with out any conversion. > > K > > > ** Is there any code out there that I can place DCL to do this on the  > > > alpha. > > > > > I do not even understand why a Word macro would be needed. > > 	 > > -John % > > malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  > > Personal Opinion Only  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:39:42 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: .txt to .doc 2 Message-ID: <OB%fg.1441$PS5.1038@news.cpqcorp.net>   himansu114@gmail.com wrote: G > We are running processes on the alpha and the final reports are ftp'd K > to a client's site.  The client doesn;'t want to have to convert the .txt  > files into .doc format.   G    Text files can be in a gazillion formats, and there are a number of  F tools that use both .TXT and .DOC extensions -- the particular errors I and/or the particular tools of interest and/or the details of the record  E format(s) are thus often central to the discussion.  File extensions  F don't and can't determine record or data formats, and generally serve  only to confuse folks.  I    Microsoft Windows can open and process text files just fine.  Reading  G into the question somewhat, the root problem is probably that the text  H files are not using the stream or stream LF formats.  Microsoft Wordpad C tends to be more somewhat flexible than Notepad, but both can read  E OpenVMS text files that were created with the appropriate attributes. G CONVERT/FDL can be used, or -- if there is access into the tool -- the  F text-format file can generally be easily created with the appropriate  record attributes.  I    Alternatively, I'd create the file using XML structures, and transfer  H that information over.  (XML is a text file, too, and OpenVMS XML tools  are readily available.)   F    When working with Microsoft's various proprietary formats, you are G often best served by Microsoft tools -- the Microsoft formats used are  G undocumented and are subject to change, and comparatively few tools on  I other platforms can or do use these formats.  Thus if you need this file  F format conversion, you'll generally need to transfer the file over to > the Microsoft platform, and perform the data conversion there.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:05:26 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec>  Subject: Re: .txt to .doc 1 Message-ID: <WZ%fg.1447$2W5.900@news.cpqcorp.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > himansu114@gmail.com wrote:  > H >> We are running processes on the alpha and the final reports are ftp'dL >> to a client's site.  The client doesn;'t want to have to convert the .txt >> files into .doc format. >   J >   Microsoft Windows can open and process text files just fine.  Reading I > into the question somewhat, the root problem is probably that the text  J > files are not using the stream or stream LF formats.  Microsoft Wordpad E > tends to be more somewhat flexible than Notepad, but both can read  G > OpenVMS text files that were created with the appropriate attributes. I > CONVERT/FDL can be used, or -- if there is access into the tool -- the  H > text-format file can generally be easily created with the appropriate  > record attributes.  B If the FTP transfer is marked as ASCII instead of Binary, the FTP E programs on both side take care of the formats.  I just checked with  ; Microsoft Word, Notepad, and Write (also known as Wordpad).   E So just FTP the file as text, and change the name to end in .DOC and  2 probably everything will be happy with the result.  E Converting a plain text file to an actual Microsoft .doc file really  I does at best just make the resulting file bigger.  And in some cases the  E automatic tools will destroy the original formatting making the file   harder to read.   F A plain text file will typically not contain any macro viruses either.   -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 13:18:21 -0700 " From: chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk Subject: Re: .txt to .doc C Message-ID: <1149279501.720400.148250@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    John Malmberg wrote: > himansu114@gmail.com wrote:  > > Hello everyone,  > > J > > Anyone know how to convert .txt file in DCL (alpha os) to .doc format.H > > (I usually ftp the .txt and use a Word macro to convert from .txt to
 > > .doc). > E > Is there a specific reason that the file needs to be in a Microsoft  > proprietary format?  > H > Especially given that Microsoft Word, Notepad, Write, and Wordpad, andI > most other Microsoft applications are able to display the contents of a 4 > plain text file just fine with out any conversion.  D The problem with M$ utilities is that they treat end of line in .txtD files as end of paragraph, which is probably not what you want. WordD also winges about multiple spaces between words if, for example, you used RUNOFF to justify.   C I suggest writing HTML, either directly if the format is simple, or ' with a translator such as AscToHtm from F http://www.jafsoft.com/asctohtm/index.html The VMS version is free! IfF you want fancy fonts, you may need to format a trial document in Word,E save it as HMTL, then extract the preamble Word generates and prepend  it to each new file.  : More advanced options for producing HTML are PPWIZARD fromG http://users.cyberone.com.au/dbareis/ppwizard.htm or Bonner Lab RUNOFF, ? both of which can process macros, which can be useful if you're F generating documents with standard paragraphs. I use both of these for just such a requirement.   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:19:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: .txt to .doc , Message-ID: <44809D44.7D8A9C2A@teksavvy.com>   John Malmberg wrote: > F > Converting a plain text file to an actual Microsoft .doc file really4 > does at best just make the resulting file bigger.   > But it allows WORD to "see" the file in default file selection dialogues.    G And a VMS text file conveted to word on VMS is garanteed not to contain  a virus.  H note that because the WORD5 copnverter on VMS is ancient, it is possibleE that the WORD on Widnows might warn the user of an ancient format and G open it as a new "converter to current version" document, in which case 0 you lose any advantage over opening a .txt file.  E the CDA converters also have a RTF input/input and output converters.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:11:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: .txt to .doc , Message-ID: <44809B52.4AB0AD6B@teksavvy.com>   himansu114@gmail.com wrote:  > F > Which version of the alpha should I be running.  I have version 5.0.  G There never was a version 5.0 of VMS on Alpha. It went from version 1.x  to 6.1 as I recall.   % SHOW SYSTEM/NOPROC shows the version.   G > ** Are there any DCL scripts out there?  Any help will be appricated.   B If you can get the CDA converters to run, then it is really really7 simple toc onvert the documents, it is a single command   ; $CONVERT/DOC input.txt/FORMAT=TEXT  output.doc/FORMAT=WORD5   E There is also a callable interface to the CDA converters. If you have D the old bookreader format documentation CDs, it is documented in it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:32:39 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: .txt to .doc 9 Message-ID: <PvWdnQJTu6E1Jh3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@libcom.com>    himansu114@gmail.com wrote: G > We are running processes on the alpha and the final reports are ftp'd  > to aF > client's site.  The client doesn;'t want to have to convert the .txt > files into .doc 	 > format.   A Well heck, that's no problem.  Just send them over with a '.doc'  H filename extension and when they open them the default application will > be Word and as already stated Word opens text files just fine.  I Now, if you need some special formatting, that's another matter, and not   just a file conversion.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:41:04 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: .txt to .doc 9 Message-ID: <H4WdnRe5PI0CIB3ZnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > himansu114@gmail.com wrote: H >> We are running processes on the alpha and the final reports are ftp'dL >> to a client's site.  The client doesn;'t want to have to convert the .txt >> files into .doc format. > H >   Text files can be in a gazillion formats, and there are a number of H > tools that use both .TXT and .DOC extensions -- the particular errors K > and/or the particular tools of interest and/or the details of the record  G > format(s) are thus often central to the discussion.  File extensions  H > don't and can't determine record or data formats, and generally serve  > only to confuse folks. > J >   Microsoft Windows can open and process text files just fine.  Reading I > into the question somewhat, the root problem is probably that the text  6 > files are not using the stream or stream LF formats.  D Ok, I see where you're going with this.  Not too much detail in the 3 original question, so we're all guessing.  However:   4 LOGIN.COM;74                  File ID:  (4077,476,0)- Size:            3/3          Owner:    [DFE] " Created:   20-SEP-2004 11:27:16.27& Revised:   20-SEP-2004 11:27:16.41 (2) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughD File attributes:    Allocation: 3, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0%                      No version limit H Record format:      Variable length, maximum 255 bytes, longest 70 bytes4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None  G I FTPed this file to a W2K system, renamed it to LOGIN.DOC, and opened  ; it.  Office 2000.  Word opened it and read it in just fine.   H If the OP needs more than that, he'll need to be a bit more specific in 
 his needs.   >  Microsoft Wordpad  E > tends to be more somewhat flexible than Notepad, but both can read  G > OpenVMS text files that were created with the appropriate attributes. I > CONVERT/FDL can be used, or -- if there is access into the tool -- the  H > text-format file can generally be easily created with the appropriate  > record attributes. > J >   Alternatively, I'd create the file using XML structures, and transfer J > that information over.  (XML is a text file, too, and OpenVMS XML tools  > are readily available.)  > G >   When working with Microsoft's various proprietary formats, you are  I > often best served by Microsoft tools -- the Microsoft formats used are  I > undocumented and are subject to change, and comparatively few tools on  K > other platforms can or do use these formats.  Thus if you need this file  H > format conversion, you'll generally need to transfer the file over to @ > the Microsoft platform, and perform the data conversion there. >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:47:14 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: .txt to .doc 9 Message-ID: <H4WdnRa5PI2MIh3ZnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > himansu114@gmail.com wrote: G >> Which version of the alpha should I be running.  I have version 5.0.  > I > There never was a version 5.0 of VMS on Alpha. It went from version 1.x  > to 6.1 as I recall.   I See, there you go again, reading what you think he wrote.  He asked what  B version of 'ALPHA' he should be running, not what version of VMS. > Probably also lost more than a bit of interest in his problem.  1 I'd suggest version EV8 if you can find one.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:36:31 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>D Subject: Re: 5305 (ALPHAserver 1200), switch, speed, full duplex etc( Message-ID: <3Y3gg.826$9c7.521@trnddc06>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 4 > I'm still wondering whether I should buy a switch.    @ Buy one!  They aren't that expensive.  Microcenter has an 8-port? Hawking 10/100 switch for $22.99.  Belkin or D-Link for $40-50. = 5-port cheaper.  You don't really need a managed switch for a 
 home network.        > F > Normally, I have all my VMS machines (and one other machine) on a 10G > Mb/s hub.  The UPLINK port of that hub goes to a LINKSYS BEFSR41 DSL  H > router, which has a built-in switch.  Also connected to that are a PC 9 > and a VOIP-device.  These run at 100 Mb/s, full duplex.   C I have the same router...  I have a long Cat5 cable that runs to my D basement where my VAXes live, along with an old PC with a 100Mb NIC.D In the basement is a 5-port Hawking switch, so the PC runs 100Mb FD,> and the VAXes are 10Mb HD, all talk happily to my upstairs PC,F Powerbook, Airport, random other stuff, visitors (most use the Airport> wireless, but there is one free ethernet port on the LINKSYS.)  C When we switched from a hub to a switch at work, the cluster became B infinitely more well-behaved.  (At the time, 1 VAX w/10MbHD, 1 old@ Alpha with same, and 1 newer Alpha with 100MbFD.)  Gone were theB occasional "lost quorum/regained quorum" messages, defered packetsA due to the ethernet being busy, etc.  (These tended to get really ? bad if a PC was being backed up across the network.  Due to the > switch, the VMS systems no longer see *any* of these packets.)    J > Each port has three LEDs.  The top one (green) lights up when there is aH > connection and blinks where there is traffic.  The middle one (green) K > lights up when things are full duplex and is otherwise dark, except that  J > it lights up when there are collisions.  The bottom one (yellow) lights   > up when the speed is 100 Mb/s. > # > My ISP has a "DSL speed checker":  > 1 >    http://www.1und1.de/index.php?page=speedtest  > # > (beware of the non-linear scale).  > F > I have a 6 Mb/s DSL connection.  From the PC, where the 100 Mb/s andC > full-duplex light up, the link above shows something like 6 Mb/s. I > From a machine on the hub (old VAX, old ALPHA or 5305), it shows around  > 700 kb/s.  > B > Today, before booting the 5305, I set EWA0_mode to FastFD at theH > console and connected it directly to the switch.  I got the following ' > message on the console while booting:  > = >    %EWA0, Possible duplex mode mismatch condition detected.  > K > but otherwise things seem OK.  The 100 Mb/s LED lights up on the switch,  B > but the full-duplex LED does NOT light up. Here's what VMS sees: >  > Device Characteristics EWA0:) >                   Value  Characteristic ) >                   -----  -------------- - >                    1500  Device buffer size * >                  Normal  Controller mode1 >                External  Internal loopback mode / >       08-00-2B-C3-55-10  Hardware LAN address 1 >                          Multicast address list / >                 CSMA/CD  Communication medium . >       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address2 >                     128  Minimum receive buffers2 >                     256  Maximum receive buffers- >                     Yes  Full duplex enable 2 >                     Yes  Full duplex operational* >             TwistedPair  Line media type, >                     100  Line speed (mbps), >     Disabled/No Failset  Logical LAN state, >                       0  Failover priority > F > Two things are confusing me.  First, the speed test is STILL showingB > only 700 kb/s instead of 6 Mb/s.  Also, when I do the check, theD > flashing of LEDs on the HUB increases markedly.  Since the 5305 isI > apparently running at 100 Mb/s (though probably not at full duplex) and J > is directly connected to the switch, why can't I get more speed?  Why isB > this traffic apparently seen on the hub?  Why doesn't the switchI > indicate full duplex for the 5305?  Also, and this is really confusing, H > a PC on the HUB with a modern ethernet card shows the full 6 Mb/s EVENH > THOUGH IT IS CONNECTED TO THE HUB AND NOT DIRECTLY TO THE SWITCH.  (Of* > course, it is not part of the cluster.)  > K > Thus, it seems that the reason the 5305 (and, perhaps the other nodes in  I > the cluster) are NOT getting the full DSL speed has nothing to do with  J > the switch: the 5305 (which has a modern ethernet card) is slow even on I > the switch, and a PC (with a modern ethernet card) is fast even on the  F > hub.  So, even though a switch might speed up SCS communication, it I > seems that even with a switch I can't get the full speed with the 5305  5 > and CAN get it with other machines even on the hub.  >   C Is it one of those dual-speed hubs?  I've seen some that really act B like a two-port switch, one port at 100Mb and one at 10Mb, and theA physical ports act like there are two hubs, one connected to each C port of the "switch", dynamically assigned.  Switches remember what ? ethernet addresses are present on each port (so they can filter C traffic appropriately), and you may have to bash them somehow (i.e. A by pulling the power cord) to make them forget and rediscover the 
 topoplogy.  > Also, collisions due to duplex mismatches could easily cause a> massive drop in through-put.  I've seen switches that wouldn't> adapt properly when you changed EWA0_MODE, but the cure was toB unplug the cable (from the switch end, not sure if it matters) forB about 30 seconds to make it reset itself.  Once we got it working,) it has run for years without any problem.      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:23:49 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: AMD) Message-ID: <op.taje1zzvlvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   = I thought I posted this earlier, but don't see it.  Makes you > wonder how the $10Billion that HP/Intel are committing to IA64 will be split.   EE Times: Latest News . AMD invites industry to ride its processor bus    
 Rick Merritt	  EE Times (06/01/2006 6:03 PM EDT)  M SUNNYVALE, Calif. — Advanced Micro Devices Inc. Thursday (June 1) said it   L will license its processor bus, the coherent version of the HyperTransport  
 interconnect.   J Other chip makers can use the link to build co-processors that plug into  N one of AMD’s CPU sockets or, someday, even become blocks in one of AMD’s  B chips, the company announced at its twice yearly analyst day here.  I Among other news at the event, AMD disclosed plans for a 65-nm notebook   F processor. It also revealed new details about its upcoming four-core  J processor that opens the door to multiprocessing systems packing as many   as eight CPU chips.   K In fact, AMD announced a dizzying array of new products and technologies.   J In addition, AMD also updated its aggressive process technology roadmap,  I although the company remains slightly behind microprocessor rival Intel    Corp.   L None of the announcements is likely to significantly alter the competitive  K balance between AMD and its archrival Intel. But taken together they show   K a company aggressively innovating and executing well on many fronts as it   F tries to take ever more market share away from the world’s largest   semiconductor maker.  L The biggest surprise of the day was AMD’s decision to openly license its  L proprietary version of HyperTransport. The move could attract more silicon  D innovation around AMD-based computers and help the company prime a  C pipeline for future CPU features that accelerate media, security,    networking, XML, Java and more.   K HyperTransport has long been an open, parallel chip-to-chip interconnect.   J But AMD has until today held tightly to its proprietary coherent version  B which let’s processors communicate directly, sharing cache data.  I "We are taking a very bold step by opening up our architecture. We know   L our competition will not do this," said Marty Seyer, senior vice president  $ of AMD’s commercial business unit.  K AMD will decide over the next 60 days whether it will make the technology   K available through the existing HyperTransport Consortium or a new adjunct   B group created for the purpose. A set of applications programming  C interfaces for HyperTransport co-processors is also in development.   H So far only Cray and Newisys have licensed the technology for use with  K high-end interconnect chips in their own multiprocessing systems. A broad   I group of co-processor vendors and OEMs expressed support for opening up   E the technology including IBM, Hewlett-Packard, Sun Microsystems and   ( startup XML co-processor startup Tarari.  H Separately, AMD disclosed it is working on two versions of a dual-core  I 65-nm notebook CPU which will emerge in mid-2007. The company claims it   L will require 40 to 60 percent less power than its current Turion CPUs when  - measured on an average range of applications.   K Enhancements come mainly in the form of a new memory controller and power   K management technology geared for mobile systems. The chip will also sport   N split power planes and—like other next-generation AMD CPUs—an ability to  = power down individual cores independently based on workloads.   L At the high end, AMD provided some more details on its four-core processor  J for desktop and server systems also to debut in 2007. The CPU will sport  J four instead of three HyperTransport links, using the version 3.0 of the  G technology announced earlier this year and at least 2Mbytes shared L3    cache.  I The changes mean OEMs will be able to efficiently build computers using   L eight chips. Currently optimal configurations for high-end AMD servers use  I four chips. The combination of more chips per system and more cores per   E chip pushes AMD deeper into high-end server territory where it will   ) compete with Intel’s Itanium processor.   K CEO Hector Ruiz said he wants to company to capture 30 percent of the x86   G server business. According to Gartner Group the company currently has    about 22 percent.   ; Overall, AMD says it still maintains a lead over Intel in   L performance-per-watt, though it appears that lead may shrink significantly  H as Intel rolls on its next-generation Core 2 Duo architecture over the  L next 12 months. Based on one AMD server comparison, the company could have  B as little as a 15-percent lead over Intel in systems-level power  H consumption, much of it attributable to Intel’s use of power-hungry,   fully-buffered DIMMs.   I "We have the best x86 execution engine today, and we will have the best   N one next year," said Dirk Meyer, AMD’s chief operating officer. "We have a  C lot of great engineers and they haven’t been sleeping," he added.    --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:15:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity  Servers -  Se , Message-ID: <44809C60.9EBD02CD@teksavvy.com>  
 Sue wrote:E > Hewlett Packard is pleased to announce the addition of HP Integrity 1 > server support to the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.     , Congratulations Sue on making this happen.     <conspiracy>B In the past years, Hobbyist programme had been restrictied to onlyG abandonned platforms. (VAX/Alpha). Does HP announcing that the programm G now extend to that IA64 thing implicetely mean that IA64 will soon join 1 the ranks of VAX/Alpha as abandonned platforms ?     :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) 
 </conspiracy>    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:44:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity  Servers -  Se , Message-ID: <4480A30B.63653A4A@teksavvy.com>  ! "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: K > > now extend to that IA64 thing implicetely mean that IA64 will soon join 4 > > the ranks of VAX/Alpha as abandonned platforms ?    G > I think 1997 pre-dates the abandonment of the Alpha platform by a few  > years.    ' That is what THEY want you to think....    :-) ;-) :-) :-) :-)     C (In 1997,. Palmer was already in negotiations with Pfeiffer for the G Compaq takeover of the remnants of Digital - Palmer bragged about those @ negotiations lasting 3 years before the takeover was announced).   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 11:36:14 -0700 ) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> P Subject: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers -C Message-ID: <1149273374.107503.175490@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    From: McQuaid, Ann (VMS)$ Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:27 PMG To: Skonetski, Susan; Blatz, Bob; Vazquez, MaryJane; 'David L. Cathey'; 
 Herman, Wendy  Cc: ; Subject:  Announcing OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers  Importance: High    C Hewlett Packard is pleased to announce the addition of HP Integrity E server support to the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.  The OpenVMS Hobbyist G program provides a low cost solution to qualifying software engineering C hobbists who want to learn and use the OpenVMS operating system for B personal development and use.  The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program is forF non-commercial use and had its start in May 1997 at the DECUS Symposia) in Cincinnati based on customer requests.   F With this announcement the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program now supports three? hardware platforms, VAX, HP AlphaServers and Integrity servers.   F To learn more about obtaining your free or low cost non-commercial use> license for OpenVMS running on Integrity Servers please visit: http://www.openvmshobbyist.com  A My thanks to David Cathey from Montagar Software who continues to $ manage the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.   Regards,   Ann McQuaid  OpenVMS General Manager    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 13:32:34 -0700 ; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> T Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers -B Message-ID: <1149280354.916354.297060@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Sue wrote:G > > Hewlett Packard is pleased to announce the addition of HP Integrity 3 > > server support to the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.  >  > , > Congratulations Sue on making this happen. >  > <conspiracy>D > In the past years, Hobbyist programme had been restrictied to onlyI > abandonned platforms. (VAX/Alpha). Does HP announcing that the programm I > now extend to that IA64 thing implicetely mean that IA64 will soon join 2 > the ranks of VAX/Alpha as abandonned platforms ? >  > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  > </conspiracy>   E I think 1997 pre-dates the abandonment of the Alpha platform by a few  years.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 18:59:56 -0700  From: davidc@montagar.com T Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers -C Message-ID: <1149299996.376861.193460@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > 7 > > Perhaps David was very busy while at the boot camp?  > > H > > The timing does seem to suggest that the appropriate people sat downA > > together and 'got it done'.  Or, was that at the bar after an ( > > appropriate number of pitchers?  :-) > G >    It's somewhat more interesting than that, at least in the parts of H > the process that I'm familiar with.  But I'm not authorized to discuss
 > it.  :-)  D What happens at boot camp... stays at boot camp.  Especially certain USB devices...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:55:37 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - Serv 1 Message-ID: <dB1gg.1457$u06.512@news.cpqcorp.net>   I    David Cathey is providing a substantial chunk of the hobbyist-related  G project services -- the OpenVMS I64 licenses aren't quite available as  H yet, so please don't send him mail about that -- as there are pieces at C Montagar, and a few pieces of the hobbyist OpenVMS I64 project are  ; residing elsewhere.  Generating the new licenses means new  I licensing-related licenses and very likely some software upgrades, and a  B few kinks are undoubtedly going to have to be resolved before the & hobbyist PAKs are fully in production.  F    read: The announcement is running slightly in front of the reality.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:36:27 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - Serv 9 Message-ID: <spOdnSuM1fYGVx3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@libcom.com>   
 Sue wrote: > From: McQuaid, Ann (VMS)& > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:27 PMI > To: Skonetski, Susan; Blatz, Bob; Vazquez, MaryJane; 'David L. Cathey';  > Herman, Wendy  > Cc: = > Subject:  Announcing OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers  > Importance: High >  > E > Hewlett Packard is pleased to announce the addition of HP Integrity G > server support to the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.  The OpenVMS Hobbyist I > program provides a low cost solution to qualifying software engineering E > hobbists who want to learn and use the OpenVMS operating system for D > personal development and use.  The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program is forH > non-commercial use and had its start in May 1997 at the DECUS Symposia+ > in Cincinnati based on customer requests.  > H > With this announcement the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program now supports threeA > hardware platforms, VAX, HP AlphaServers and Integrity servers.  > H > To learn more about obtaining your free or low cost non-commercial use@ > license for OpenVMS running on Integrity Servers please visit:  > http://www.openvmshobbyist.com > C > My thanks to David Cathey from Montagar Software who continues to & > manage the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program. > 
 > Regards, > 
 > Ann McQuaid  > OpenVMS General Manager  >   3 Perhaps David was very busy while at the boot camp?   E The timing does seem to suggest that the appropriate people sat down  > together and 'got it done'.  Or, was that at the bar after an $ appropriate number of pitchers?  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 23:47:57 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for Integrity Servers - Serv 1 Message-ID: <N64gg.1474$q16.739@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dave Froble wrote:  5 > Perhaps David was very busy while at the boot camp?  > G > The timing does seem to suggest that the appropriate people sat down  @ > together and 'got it done'.  Or, was that at the bar after an & > appropriate number of pitchers?  :-)  F    It's somewhat more interesting than that, at least in the parts of G the process that I'm familiar with.  But I'm not authorized to discuss   it.  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:15:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> X Subject: Re: Announcment from Ann McQuaid - OpenVMS Hobbyist for IntegrityServers  -  --, Message-ID: <4480D48E.26267445@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >    It's somewhat more interesting than that, at least in the parts of H > the process that I'm familiar with.  But I'm not authorized to discuss
 > it.  :-)  F Is is something akin to the type of stories that the national enquirer would pay good money for ? :-)    H In terms of the "premature announcement", the way I had read it was thatF there had been agreement in principle on allowing it, and I would have5 expected a subsequent announcement of implementation.     H In terms of the actual licensing process, how does it actually work ? IsE it a generic program that is fed a whole bunch of keys to allow it to G generate each of the approved licenses (layered products + VMS), or was B there a DECUS-specific application created by Digital and which MrB Cathey runs on his server to generate a fixed number of licences ?  D Are licences for IA64 really different than those of Alpha or VAX  ?    G Also, was there any progress on provision of software kits to hobbyists  via internet ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 02:12:59 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca>  Subject: Re: DN-11. Message-ID: <Le6gg.223634$P01.144751@pd7tw3no>   Yeah  L someone was complaining that I shouldn't lock out the DN11 address - just in, case someone would ever want to emulate one!  ; Considering my experience with the 801's (smoke ..........)   ) I find that thought hard to believe......   K I should make the point though - there is no external process that controls F the amount of cpu that the simulator takes.  There is a snipit of codeK within the simulator that causes it to go to sleep for 1 ms at a time every ? so many vax instructions.  At full throttle it sleeps ecery 400 L instructions - which turns my P3 1.5 into ~ an 11/750.  At full throttle (no7 sleep cycles) it's getting close to a 4300 (~7.+ vups).   G I run a program on the vax that checks the total CPU utilization of all L processes every 2 seconds. (It runs at base priority of 12).  It decides howI often to insert sleep cycles (in steps of 400 instructions) - and trys to  aim for F total cpu utilization of between 25 and 75%.  This program uses the IOJ address for the DN-11 and just stuffs a value in there.  Code in the DN-11L driver takes this value & stuffs in into a common location.  The code snipitL also plays with some variables that control how often interrupts are checkedB for - just to ensure that telnet responsivness remains reasonable.  2 A windows executable & source code can be found at  K http://68.150.97.212/   - just click on the vax  (sigh - just like my first G one (sniff).)  If I had a picture of a TS-11 I'd throw darts at it.  We K bought one - and it was wonderful (and the price was right!)).  It was also ) the last one that we bought that worked!!   J I remember one instance trying to install VMS on a 11/750 with dual rm80s.  K We must have reloaded stbkup form the tu58 a dozen times before I got smart H and wondered if we had enough of the OS to give us a running system.  WeJ did, and the error recovery that wasn't available on the standalone system
 save the day.   K My simulated VAX is not always up - if someone has a real problem then they # can e-mail me & I'll email the zips    Villy  villy.madsen@shaw.ca9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message + news:DWffg.1280$Rz4.721@news.cpqcorp.net...  > Rich Alderson wrote:L > > ...what he did was to co-opt the DN-11 address for communication between the L > > emulated VAX and the external throuttling process, on the theory that no one  > > needed a DN-11 for a VAX.  > E >    Ah.  OK.  That makes sense.  There are equivalent mechanisms for B > communications between cooperating operating systems and virtualH > machines.  (And for the purposes of this emulator, use of the DN-11 isI > likely a safe choice for this, as well -- DN-11 widgets aren't common.)  > G >    I'll dig up some details on VAX, as there may be another approach. A > (I do need to see if the alternative I'm thinking about is even / > available, or if it can reasonably be added.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 00:28:35 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>J Subject: Re: I knows it's unsupported, but does current VMS run on ZX2000?' Message-ID: <TI4gg.229$Id2.21@trnddc03>    Tom LINDEN wrote: G > On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 21:19:53 -0700, John Santos <john@egh.com> wrote:    Uh, no I didn't...   > B >>  Or has the IA64 architecture now completed its puberty and itsJ >> instruction set now expected to remain stable and code generated in theF >> foreseable future will be compatible all the way down to McKinley ?! >>  no idea about the IA64 stuff.  >  > 8 > Well, you know what comes after puberty?  ... adultery >      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:48:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <44809618.D5F49644@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > After this (integer overflow) admonition about using 8086 when talkingI > about current products, will JF finally get the message, or, will there  > be more usage of '8086'.  E Current products constantly change names. The 8086 refers to the base B architecture and uniquely identifies whatever generic products are> available at this point in time , whether from Intel or AMD.    D The name "Alpha" stuck because that was the first name used, and theC official name "AXP" was phased out when DEC realised that Alpha had  built its name already.     G And since both Intel and AMD current have different models of 8086s for E sale each with different names, then the 8086 provides a more generic H and longer lasting reference to the architecture, especially since Intel? still has both 32 and 64 bit versions of  8086s being produced.   E It is a given that when VMS is ported to the 8086, it will be to a 64 F bit version of the 8086, probably built on systems that boot with EFI.G What is not a given is whether HP will get AMD/Intel to add features to 0 the 8086 to help replace the failing IA64 thing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:52:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <448096E5.75ACBBE0@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > After this (integer overflow) admonition about using 8086 when talking > about current products,   4 OK, quick, don't look at a book or don't use Google:  @ Name all current product names used for chips that implement theH architecture that DOS/Windows grew up  on and still is the core platformC for Windows. And also provide all past and future names for all the  products and their variations.  D and note: X86 is an abreviation of 8086. (8086, 80186, 80286, 80386,
 80486 etc)   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:35:37 +0000 (UTC)1 From: legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <e5q7ep$sce$1@news.xmission.com>  / [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]   = JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> spake the secret code ( <44809618.D5F49644@teksavvy.com> thusly:  F >Current products constantly change names. The 8086 refers to the baseC >architecture and uniquely identifies whatever generic products are ? >available at this point in time , whether from Intel or AMD.     E 8086 is the name of a past product, not the name of the architecture.   @ IA32 or IA64 are the names that Intel gives to the architecture.  @ 8086 is the name of a particular obsolete implementation of that
 architecture.  --  E "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: 3           <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> ( 	    Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty,                <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:46:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <4480A38F.C7435132@teksavvy.com>   Richard wrote:B > IA32 or IA64 are the names that Intel gives to the architecture.    F IA64 is the name given to the architecture that currently has productsF named "Itanium". IA32 referred to the family of 8086 chips that ran in 32 bit mode.  H Since the 8086 now runs in 64 bit mode, IA32 is no longer applicable and IA64 is already taken.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:05:00 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers. Message-ID: <YH1gg.34$vp6.745@news.uswest.net>     G Intel, AMD, and MS are all referring to the 64 bit versions of the IA32 3 architecture as X64 and the 32 bit versions as X32.   
 Mike Ober.  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4480A38F.C7435132@teksavvy.com... > Richard wrote:D > > IA32 or IA64 are the names that Intel gives to the architecture. >  > H > IA64 is the name given to the architecture that currently has productsH > named "Itanium". IA32 referred to the family of 8086 chips that ran in > 32 bit mode. > J > Since the 8086 now runs in 64 bit mode, IA32 is no longer applicable and > IA64 is already taken. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:06:10 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers. Message-ID: <2J1gg.35$vp6.708@news.uswest.net>     # Your're right - I just fed a TROLL.    Mike.   5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message & news:4eb011F1dkcviU1@individual.net.../ > In article <KBWfg.8$9i.1102@news.uswest.net>, : > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> writes: > > J > > The 8086 is NOT a current processor.  The current processors are based onL > > the x86 (32 bit) and x86-64 (or simply x64) technologies.  Yes, they areJ > > descended from the 8086 processor, which was itself descended from the 8008C > > processor, but no one refers to the 8008 processor as a current  technology.  > G > Give it up.  Trying to educate him to stop calling current technology + > "the 8086" is just pissing into the wind.  >  > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 13:55:54 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workersB Message-ID: <1149281754.029218.23030@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:J > > After this (integer overflow) admonition about using 8086 when talking > > about current products,  > 6 > OK, quick, don't look at a book or don't use Google: > B > Name all current product names used for chips that implement theJ > architecture that DOS/Windows grew up  on and still is the core platformE > for Windows. And also provide all past and future names for all the   > products and their variations. > F > and note: X86 is an abreviation of 8086. (8086, 80186, 80286, 80386, > 80486 etc)  D Now you've got it. x86 is the abbreviation for all of the CPU's thatE have the same ancestry. 8086 is an actual and specific CPU chip. When F you say 8086 your are excluding all other chips. Why not call them allF 4004 or 8008 or 8080? They were the earlier ancestors of the 8086. UseA x86 and everyone will be happy. (well, some people are just never  happy;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:59:12 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers9 Message-ID: <H4WdnRG5PI19XB3ZnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:I >> After this (integer overflow) admonition about using 8086 when talking  >> about current products, > 6 > OK, quick, don't look at a book or don't use Google: > B > Name all current product names used for chips that implement theJ > architecture that DOS/Windows grew up  on and still is the core platformE > for Windows. And also provide all past and future names for all the   > products and their variations. > F > and note: X86 is an abreviation of 8086. (8086, 80186, 80286, 80386, > 80486 etc)  I Ok, as per your note, x86 could be a name for a group of products.  Many   (as opposed to one) use that.   * What about Pentium, Pentium Pro, and such?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:00:53 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers9 Message-ID: <H4WdnRC5PI3YXx3ZnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Doug Phillips wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Dave Froble wrote: J >>> After this (integer overflow) admonition about using 8086 when talking >>> about current products, 7 >> OK, quick, don't look at a book or don't use Google:  >>C >> Name all current product names used for chips that implement the K >> architecture that DOS/Windows grew up  on and still is the core platform F >> for Windows. And also provide all past and future names for all the! >> products and their variations.  >>G >> and note: X86 is an abreviation of 8086. (8086, 80186, 80286, 80386, 
 >> 80486 etc)  > F > Now you've got it. x86 is the abbreviation for all of the CPU's thatG > have the same ancestry. 8086 is an actual and specific CPU chip. When H > you say 8086 your are excluding all other chips. Why not call them allH > 4004 or 8008 or 8080? They were the earlier ancestors of the 8086. UseC > x86 and everyone will be happy. (well, some people are just never 
 > happy;-) >   G Well there you have it sports fans.  Will JF remain a majority of one,  + or will be join with the rest of the world?    Place your bets.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:04:57 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers9 Message-ID: <H4WdnRO5PI2hXh3ZnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:/ > In article <KBWfg.8$9i.1102@news.uswest.net>, ; > 	"Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> writes:  >>  L >> The 8086 is NOT a current processor.  The current processors are based onK >> the x86 (32 bit) and x86-64 (or simply x64) technologies.  Yes, they are N >> descended from the 8086 processor, which was itself descended from the 8008N >> processor, but no one refers to the 8008 processor as a current technology. > G > Give it up.  Trying to educate him to stop calling current technology + > "the 8086" is just pissing into the wind.  >  > bill >   H I'll take that as a bet against change.  The odds aren't so good there. #   You get -$1 for every dollar bet.   F Now if you want to go for the gold, take the infinity to 1 odds of JF  giving up '8086'.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:55:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <4480CFE5.8D72D7D2@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:I > I'll take that as a bet against change.  The odds aren't so good there. % >   You get -$1 for every dollar bet.  > G > Now if you want to go for the gold, take the infinity to 1 odds of JF  > giving up '8086'.     G If those who bet that I can change promise to share their winnings with ' me, I might be convinced to change. :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:21:15 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: Kill self0 Message-ID: <vk%fg.1440$dR5.10@news.cpqcorp.net>   Nagaraj C wrote:  F    One- or two-line questions (or similarly short comments) are often F surprisingly and exceedingly difficult for folks to address.  There's I not enough context.  Some background information can be quite useful, in   other words.  - > $STOP/ID=0 (Zero) kills the process itself.   C    A PID of 0 (or an omitted value) is, by convention, the process  H identification of the current process.  (Much like DECnet Phase IV host 4 0:: is an alias for the address for the local host.)  D    <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/5841/5841pro_009.html#pid>     > dir *.*.* ( Two dots)   I    The use of a dot as a delimiter for the version field is a documented   feature of OpenVMS.   H    <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_005.html#files4>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 17:19:33 -0700 / From: "doypapio@gmail.com" <doypapio@gmail.com>   Subject: Middleware Test SupportC Message-ID: <1149293973.307518.249800@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   A I am looking for links/documentation on BEA Weblogic Server : 8.1 B (sp1), BEA Tuxedo : Billing 6.1 (sp3) and ACMS :  V4.4A-0 on OVMS.  D The URL I've landed on so far does not show links on these versions. They seem to be rather old.    Many thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 01:24:22 +0100 * From: Robert Tillyard <rob@vetsystems.com>8 Subject: Re: Network Card for an AlphaServer 1000 4/233.4 Message-ID: <e5qkr7$nm8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  > Thanks, I've managed to borrow a DE450 while I look for a 500.  
 Regards, Rob.    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: F > The DE500 and DE450 will work and are commonly available on Ebay for
 > peanuts. > C > If you want to buy from a dealer, Abacus Computing in Reading are $ > always my best bet.  0118 940 3111 >  > Steve  >  > Chris wrote: > N >>DE500 would be the preferable card, but any old DE450 will work just fine as5 >>well (and are probably being given away these days)  >> >>9 >>"Robert Tillyard" <rob@vetsystems.com> wrote in message 0 >>news:e5l5rf$flq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk... >>D >>>I have an AlphaServer 1000 4/233 that I bought from someone who'd >>>installed Linux on it.  >>> G >>>I've put OpenVMS 7.3-1 on it but it says it doesn't have an ethernet G >>>card, the previous owner said he swapped it for one that Linux would 
 >>>recognise.  >>> J >>>What card do I need to buy (I'm in the UK if that makes a difference to >>>suppliers) for VMS to use?  >>> . >>>The case says 4/233 but the LCD says 4/266. >>>  >>>Thanks, regards, Rob. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:28:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Personal note, Message-ID: <44809144.34D07F98@teksavvy.com>  
 Sue wrote:E > the office. I will be having surgery for a total knee replacment on 	 > Monday.   @ As they say to wish you luck:  BREAK A LEG ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 16:17:31 -0700 ) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: Personal noteB Message-ID: <1149290251.607742.144130@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Dear Newsgroup,   C Thank you for your kind words, I am fortunate to be just one member & this team of which you are all a part.  
 See you soon.    sue      JF Mezei wrote:  > Sue wrote:G > > the office. I will be having surgery for a total knee replacment on  > > Monday.  > B > As they say to wish you luck:  BREAK A LEG ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 16:39:37 -0400 / From: colonel@monmouth.com (The Human Windmill)  Subject: runaway bash in GNV- Message-ID: <e5q7m9$ce3$1@shell.monmouth.com>   > I am using GNV 1.6 EFT on an OpenVMS 7.3-2 system.  Whenever I@ start the system, it revives a runaway bash process on a defunct@ terminal.  This process does not appear in SHOW PROC /ALL.  STOPB /ID=xxxxxx returns with "no such process." But ps(1) shows that itC exists and consumes CPU as fast as it can, slowing down the system.   C I've deleted everything in my home directory (SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]) B that looks relevant to bash or GNV, but it doesn't help.  Is there' a stake I can use to kill this vampire?    -:- ! 	"`Their eyes converged as one'?"   C 	"You see?  It's not as if I'm asking you to write great literature      or anything. . . . " --   Col. G. L. Sicherman home: colonel@mail.monmouth.com  work: sicherman@att.com ( web: <http://www.monmouth.com/~colonel/>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 16:48:56 -0400 E From: colonel@monmouth.com (First there is no Colonel, then there is)   Subject: Re: runaway bash in GNV- Message-ID: <e5q87o$cp6$1@shell.monmouth.com>   . In <e5q7m9$ce3$1@shell.monmouth.com>, I wrote: > @ > I am using GNV 1.6 EFT on an OpenVMS 7.3-2 system.  Whenever IB > start the system, it revives a runaway bash process on a defunctB > terminal.  This process does not appear in SHOW PROC /ALL.  STOPD > /ID=xxxxxx returns with "no such process." But ps(1) shows that itE > exists and consumes CPU as fast as it can, slowing down the system.   ) Never mind.  A hard reboot got rid of it.    -:- < 	"To what do I owe the honour of this unexpected visit, Lord( 	 Ruthven . . . alias Lyford Pemberton!"  6 		H. C. Artmann, "Tom Parker, International Detective" --   Col. G. L. Sicherman home: colonel@mail.monmouth.com  work: sicherman@att.com ( web: <http://www.monmouth.com/~colonel/>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 13:30:47 -0700 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>+ Subject: Re: SA 5300A initial configuration C Message-ID: <1149280247.482088.233360@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: F > FWIW, I don't think that the system disk can be an array drive off aI > Smart Array.  In what I've seen, the raid disks come into VMS as DPAxxx ? > devices, for which the driver only gets loaded once there's a + > reasonable amount of VMS already started.  > F > If you want to boot off a disk on the array it has to be a dedicated
 > spindle. >  > Steve   C The docs indicate a raid array provided logical disk is usable as a G system disk, but you have to configure that one disk using the BIOS ROM / ORCA utility, which is apparently very limited.   C We're looking at getting a couple of 18GB drives to set up a system D disk mirror, then using the multiple 36GB drives to create the otherC logical drives, unless the online ACU XE can resize the system disk 
 successfully.    Rich   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 13:26:25 -0400 From: "Jilly" <jilly@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: SA 5300A initial configuration , Message-ID: <448074c2$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H ORCA will not subdivide the disks any smaller than what you found.  You M either have to build VMS on another disk and install ACUXE and then carve up  J the disks or boot the system as a satellite, install ACUXE or use ORCA to L build the smallest volume that could later be destroyed, build VMS on that, M install ACUXE and carve up the disks, copy VMS over to it's new system disk,  L boot off of that and then use ACUXE to destroy the old system disk and move H that space into the existing volumes.  Not a perfect world no doubt but  manageable.     4 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message = news:1149264593.569113.153720@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... H > Got our first SA 5300A raid controller in today in a DS10.  I've got aC > split bus shelf with three 36GB drives on each of the two busses.  > C > ORCA is not well documented in what I've been able to find.  When G > trying to create a logical volume to use as a system disk, it appears H > the choices are the full capacity of whatever setup is created; if youG > create a 0+1 mirror you get a 33.xGB logical drive, and if you create H > an N-disk Raid 5 you get whatever the total capacity is as the logicalI > disk.  Is there any way to present a smaller logical disk to the system  > when you're stuck with ORCA? > E > The ACU-XE docs imply that you can set the size of the logical disk I > smaller than the size of the array you created, then use that available G > space to make more logical disks later.  Since ACU-XE requires VMS to E > be up and running, and that requires that a (big ORCA) logical disk G > already be created, can that logical disk used as the VMS system disk C > be resized down to allow use of the  excess space for one or more  > logical disks? > H > We need to present 5 "spindles" to VMS in order to ease a VAX to AlphaF > transition, with the 5300A providing the redundancy/data protection.I > If we're stuck with what ORCA provides for the system disk I'll have to E > just use two disks as a system disk mirror, wasting a lot of space, I > then the other four (or 3 + spare) in a Raid5 to present the other four ' > spindles.  Not an ideal use of space.  > 	 > Thanks.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 12:40:01 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: Set volume label programmatically ?3 Message-ID: <sznB5eL5Nj6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <inYfg.1420$5R5.164@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: > Malav wrote: >> Hi, >>  G >> Is there a way of setting the volume label programmatically on VMS ? @ >> Any system services to achive the same as SET VOLUME / LABEL  >>  	 >> -Malav  >>   > J > I don't think so.  I did a quick scan of the code for SET VOLUME and it 8 > is does it 'by hand'.  So you are left with LIB$SPAWN.  F Although I agree with John's conclusion that there is no program call,G looking at source in such cases does not always work.  I believe I have F seen cases where there is a callable interface but the earlier utility still does it "manually".    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:03:40 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: Set volume label programmatically ?1 Message-ID: <04%fg.1436$5U5.133@news.cpqcorp.net>    Malav wrote:  F > Is there a way of setting the volume label programmatically on VMS ?? > Any system services to achive the same as SET VOLUME / LABEL    F    There is no API available for this particular purpose, and there's H slightly more involved here than just brute-force tweaking the contents I of a field on the disk.  The supported approach is to SPAWN or lib$spawn   the command.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:07:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: Set volume label programmatically ?, Message-ID: <44809A67.E1020472@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >    There is no API available for this particular purpose, and there's I > slightly more involved here than just brute-force tweaking the contents  > of a field on the disk.   @ Geez, I expected you to write an API over lunch hour and make it$ available this afternoon :-) :-) :-)  G One thing about programatically changing a volume label: what do you do H after ?  If the drive is mounted, there are a gazillion things  with theC old volume name in the system (logicals, locks etc) and you need to C dismount and remount the drive and you don't really want to do such - things while you have an application running.     D If the drive is not mounted, would changing the volume label involveD only writing the new label in a few specific places on the disk with: $QIO calls ? What sort of other things would be involved ?   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:24:52 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 0 Subject: Re: Set volume label programmatically ?( Message-ID: <e5qdrj$86c$1@pcls4.std.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   E >If the drive is not mounted, would changing the volume label involve E >only writing the new label in a few specific places on the disk with ; >$QIO calls ? What sort of other things would be involved ?   % It would need to be mounted /FOREIGN.   J Having done that, it's a simple matter of updating the home block with theI new label (and checksum).  To be done right, the backup home blocks need  " to be located and updated as well.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 22:59:46 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: Set volume label programmatically ?2 Message-ID: <Cp3gg.1472$026.1240@news.cpqcorp.net>   Michael Moroney wrote:  = > ...it's a simple matter of updating the home block with the K > new label (and checksum).  To be done right, the backup home blocks need  $ > to be located and updated as well.  H    For correct operations and assuming ODS-2 or ODS-5, it's finding and I resetting the alternate home blocks (using one of several algorithms for  H that purpose, as appropriate for the particular current disk structure) F and (if your disk is old enough to have one) setting the label in the G primary home block, and it's the SCB volume set name (the Freeware got  G tangled here a while back, because SET VOLUME/LABEL itself missed this  C field), and -- most importantly -- it's an assumption that OpenVMS  H Engineering is not going to change anything within this stuff again, or H a willingness to track future changes.  (The most recent change in this  area was circa V8.1, FWIW.)   I    Bound volume sets could well get tangled up here, I haven't looked at   that.   D    Or you can use SET VOLUME/LABEL, and let it deal with this stuff.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:37:36 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: Sun axes 5000 jobs but gains market share. T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840150A67E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Andrew [mailto:andrew_harrison@symantec.com]=20  > Sent: June 1, 2006 10:00 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 > Subject: Sun axes 5000 jobs but gains market share.  >=20F > In his first major organisational announcement since taking over theH > reins from Scott McNealy Jonathan Schwartz has announced that Sun willE > be making 5000 redundancies worldwide in an attempt to cut costs by F > $480-$590 million dollars per annum. Most of these redundancies will > happen in the next 6 months. >=20D > News from Sun is not entirely grim however. Q1 server numbers from< > Gartner show that Sun revenue rose 8%, HP was flat, IBM=20 > despite posting D > an 19% rise in shipments saw revenue decline by 4%. Sun posted the* > scond largest shipment increase of 8.1%. >=20A > Sun also regained the top spot in the high end server market=20  > with a 32%* > share, HP and IBM both have a 30% share. >=20	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >=20 >=20  # Could not resist counter article ..    June 01, 2006 - ComputerWorld:J http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=3DviewArticleBasic= &  articleId=3D9000887 G "June 01, 2006 (Computerworld) -- The restructuring at Sun Microsystems F Inc. announced yesterday, in which the company said it will "simplify"G product lines, eliminate redundant research and development and cut its D workforce by as much as 13%, has left a lot of unanswered questions,B especially about how these changes will affect Sun's customers.=20 =20 E "There was very, very scant information provided yesterday that would G allow us to go through an analysis of what the effect is going to be on C Sun's products," said Paul McGuckin, an analyst at Gartner Inc. who  covers Sun."   :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2006 12:34:10 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe3 Message-ID: <GYFHGsB8L2aK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4earidF1cmtd7U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <VNYEfbF+esdf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Z >> In article <4e95diF1dpqfoU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  P >>> DIBOL goes back to my Cadilac argument.  There is nothing done in DIBOL that& >>> can't be done in another language. >>  . >> "Use my existing DIBOL code" comes to mind. > J > I realize that, and specifically addressed the concept. But that is likeL > saying the VMS is unsatisfactory for doing  things because it doesn't haveI > a fork() call.  There is nothing that is done on Unix using fork() that J > can't be done on VMS using VMS's native system calls, except compile the > Unix code!!!  :-)   D Rewriting one's application is simply not economically acceptable in many environments.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:41:44 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe2 Message-ID: <slrne80u2o.ae.rivie@stench.no.domain>  8 On 2006-06-02, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: > but a more limited8 > version of VMS (historically done before ala MicroVMS)  ? MicroVMS was NOT a more limited version of VMS. It was simply a D repackaging of the operating system to allow it to be distributed onF floppies. It left out drivers etc. that were not needed for/not likelyH to be used on small machines. Instead of requiring an infinite number of1 RX50s, this trimmed it down to merely a buttload.   . The operating system itself was full-bore VMS. --
 roger ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:20:47 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> $ Subject: RE: Unix runs faster, maybeT Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840150A60D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@pechter.dyndns.org]=20  > Sent: June 2, 2006 9:11 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe >=20. > In article <447F34B6.E09DFEEA@teksavvy.com>,1 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: " > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:= > >> Linux is adequate for most needs and is credible as a=20  > platform for the future.> > >> Traditional commercial Unix systems look like they are=20 > going to be very > >> badly squeezed. > >  > > @ > >When you consider that Solaris is now "free" and also runs=20 > on the 8086,B > >is it still at a big disadvantage versus Linux in terms of real > >onwership costs ? >=20B > Maybe... at least the Linux patches are available freely withoutA > contract support.  It may be more likely in embedded apps or=20  > on turnkey > boxes. >=20D > Linux patching with yum and apt is easier as well from what I see. >=20  
 [snip ...]    ( Be careful of falling for industry hype.  H Reality is that RH releases 10-20 *security* patches (not bug fixes) perF *month* and many Cust's can not afford the QA testing required to testE their applic's before releasing these patches into their environment. @ And many of these patches include multiple fixes for a number of different areas.=20   H It gets even worse if you consider any custom patches exist locally i.e.E what impact might these security patches have on local custom patched  code?   G Given the rapidly increasing focus on security, this is a big issue for  large production shops.   ! Reference: (RH Security web site) G https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on thread  for each month and add them up)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:04:45 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybeG Message-ID: <Q_Odnc9HYZsoKB3ZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:Y > In article <4e8b6hF1ahl9iU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 7 >> Boy would I like to see a list of those needs!!  :-)  > D >    A kernel which can do hard real time is at the top of the list.  H During my time at DEC, VMS was *never* positioned as a 'hard real-time' H system:  that was VAX/eln's (or RSX, or RT) territory.  Unless that has F changed since the mid-'80s, it sounds as if you don't understand what  'hard real-time' means.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:26:55 -0500 / From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe: Message-ID: <GPmdnRiIpNvSSh3ZnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com>  , In article <4eb0esF1dkcviU2@individual.net>,) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: 1 >In article <0J-dnR95coFupR3Z4p2dnA@comcast.com>, 3 >	pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes:  >>  J >> The Open Source nature of Linux is it's big win not necessarily the low >> cost. > F >And there is a technically superior Unix OS that is allso Open SourceF >and not infected with the Gnu Public Virus but people still choose to- >bet their businesses on Linux.  Go figure!!!  >  >bill  >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   | B >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     H I agree but... the binary drivers we need to run our stuff are available6 only for specific Linux versions, or SCO or Solaris...  8 I'd run xBSD stuff -- but I'm not worried about the GPL.H Our apps don't require library or kernel mods and we don't link against # stuff that would get us in trouble.   F Unless you're doing embedded stuff the GPL isn't too much of a risk at8 v2... the v3 stuff that's coming seems much worse to me.   Bill   --   --  H   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!#   pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:50:18 -0500 / From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) $ Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe: Message-ID: <oYSdnQAGD9RXQR3ZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com>  T In article <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840150A60D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,& Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: >  >> -----Original Message----- : >> From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@pechter.dyndns.org]  >> Sent: June 2, 2006 9:11 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >> Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  >>  / >> In article <447F34B6.E09DFEEA@teksavvy.com>, 2 >> JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:# >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: < >> >> Linux is adequate for most needs and is credible as a  >> platform for the future. = >> >> Traditional commercial Unix systems look like they are   >> going to be very  >> >> badly squeezed.  >> > >> >? >> >When you consider that Solaris is now "free" and also runs   >> on the 8086, C >> >is it still at a big disadvantage versus Linux in terms of real  >> >onwership costs ?  >>  C >> Maybe... at least the Linux patches are available freely without @ >> contract support.  It may be more likely in embedded apps or 
 >> on turnkey 	 >> boxes.  >>  E >> Linux patching with yum and apt is easier as well from what I see.  >>   >  >[snip ...]  >  > ) >Be careful of falling for industry hype.   F No hype... Patch RedHat, Solaris Sparc etc on a reasonably rare basis.C Been security audited by professionals including penetration tests. B VMS would be nice but it's not available on my hardware platforms.  E Stuff I'm really worried about I've built internally and kept current # even on boxes with 8 year old OS's.    > I >Reality is that RH releases 10-20 *security* patches (not bug fixes) per G >*month* and many Cust's can not afford the QA testing required to test F >their applic's before releasing these patches into their environment.A >And many of these patches include multiple fixes for a number of  >different areas.  >   B Yup... most of them for __not-installed__ apps on the boxes I run.L They just ship too much crap on the dvd's that we tailor out of the install.G The stuff doesn't make the disks.  Our kickstart scripts load about 1/4 K or 1/3 of the actual distribution... Could cut it down more if I wanted to.   C Who needs 4 different mail MTA's or 2 DNS servers... not to mention G routing software like I found on the first reference on your url below.   H Therefore, the security issue on these programs is not found on my site.  I >It gets even worse if you consider any custom patches exist locally i.e. F >what impact might these security patches have on local custom patched >code?  F If there's libc involvement or some major library issues we've got theH job of testing it.  No argument.   Sometimes we replace it and update it2 before the vendor like the libz compression stuff.   >   D Not a problem... we haven't had any issues in the last 7 years or so8 that I've been using the open source stuff commercially.  H >Given the rapidly increasing focus on security, this is a big issue for >large production shops.  8 We're an internet ISP type shop so we're damned careful.  " >Reference: (RH Security web site)H >https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on thread  >for each month and add them up) >   ? See how many are really OS related as opposed to add-on apps...   A Bugs in the ftp server don't count if it's not loaded on the box.   5 for example here's the first one I got off your list.   0 Note  that it's a GNU program bug not an OS bug.  ,                    Red Hat Security Advisory  9 				   Synopsis:          Moderate: zebra security update + 				   Advisory ID:       RHSA-2006:0533-01  				   Advisory URL:8 				   https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2006-0533.html$ 				   Issue date:        2006-06-01$ 				   Updated on:        2006-06-012 				   Product:           Red Hat Enterprise Linux5 				   CVE Names:         CVE-2006-2223 CVE-2006-2224  				   CVE-2006-2276   				   -   				   1. Summary:  7 				   Updated zebra packages that fix several security ) 				   vulnerabilities are now available.   4 				   This update has been rated as having moderate= 				   security impact by the Red Hat Security Response Team.   * 				   2. Relevant releases/architectures:  < 				   Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (Advanced Server) version 				   2.1 - i386, ia64 4 				   Red Hat Linux Advanced Workstation 2.1 - ia64    F Notice the 2.1 varient of RedHat is based off the five year old RedHatF 7.x software.  It's not an essential OS app.  (We never load it on our( boxes since they're not network routers) 	  					3. Problem description:  7 				   GNU Zebra is a free software that manages TCP/IP  				   based routing protocol.  : 				   An information disclosure flaw was found in the way= 				   GNU Zebra interprets RIP REQUEST packets. RIPd in GNU  0 				   Zebra will respond to RIP REQUEST packets< 				   for RIP versions that have been disabled or that have: 				   authentication enabled, allowing a remote attacker 7 				   to acquire information about the local network.   				   (CVE-2006-2223)    M This is like saying that a security hole in DECnet or  All-In-One being fixed % has an impact on all VAX/VMS boxes.     D Rule #1 for security.  Only load what's absolutely necessary for the secure operation of the server.   E Minmize exposure of unnecessary services and programs to the wild old 	 Internet.      >Regards >  >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >HP Services Canada  >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax: 613-591-4477 >kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom  >(remove the DOT's and AT)   > 5 >OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   F I'm an old Ex-DEC Field Service guy but spreading Fud about RedHat's aE bit much.  I'm not a RedHat bigot and I prefer FreeBSD... but I never E again want to be stuck with an OS I can't maintain because of vendor  , cost constraints in support or vendor death.  H My biggest problem with RedHat and Suse is they throw too much crap intoE the mix trying to distribute the largest compilation of junk with the  os.   E At least with Open Source stuff I can hire coders if necessary to fix 	 things...   & Can't do that without the source code.   Bill --   --  H   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!#   pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:22:09 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> $ Subject: RE: Unix runs faster, maybeT Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840150A71A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@pechter.dyndns.org]=20  > Sent: June 2, 2006 8:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe >=20 > In article=20 @ > <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840150A60D@tayexc19.americas.cp
 > qcorp.net>, ( > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: > >  > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@pechter.dyndns.org]=20 > >> Sent: June 2, 2006 9:11 AM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) > >> Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe  > >>=20    Snip ..    > >  >=20F > Not a problem... we haven't had any issues in the last 7 years or so: > that I've been using the open source stuff commercially. >=20? > >Given the rapidly increasing focus on security, this is a=20  > big issue for  > >large production shops. >=20: > We're an internet ISP type shop so we're damned careful. >=20  @ Do you QA-test all of your applications before releasing any newD security or OS patches. If not, then your requirements are differentF than large production shops which can not afford to not test all theirE main apps with each new security or OS patch that gets rolled out. If E you are like some of the banks I have dealt with, they literally have A hundreds and in some case, thousands of servers on their internal H network. Even if only 20-30% are considered *prod*, that is still a huge; amount of effort that takes away from their new app and new H functionality testing when *monthly* security patches are being released# for platforms in their environment.       $ > >Reference: (RH Security web site)< > >https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/=20 > (click on thread" > >for each month and add them up) > >  >=20A > See how many are really OS related as opposed to add-on apps...  >=20C > Bugs in the ftp server don't count if it's not loaded on the box.  >=20  F You are missing the point .. If the security bug in the app results inF elevated privs, then it does not matter if it is *just* an applicationD hole. And many of these security issues are grouped together under sH title which is not necessarily associated with the title, so you need to) read each of the advisories very closely.    Snip ..   H > I'm an old Ex-DEC Field Service guy but spreading Fud about RedHat's aG > bit much.  I'm not a RedHat bigot and I prefer FreeBSD... but I never I > again want to be stuck with an OS I can't maintain because of vendor=20 . > cost constraints in support or vendor death. >=20  E What fud are you talking about - I provided the RH link that itemizes @ the 10-20 *security* patches per month on their web site. That's reality.  H As to your concern about being able to maintain the OS bits-n-bytes... IG rather suspect your management would much rather have you spending your H time on much higher level work than spending all of your time working in
 the OS weeds.   > > My biggest problem with RedHat and Suse is they throw too=20 > much crap intoG > the mix trying to distribute the largest compilation of junk with the  > os.  >=20G > At least with Open Source stuff I can hire coders if necessary to fix  > things...  >=20  F Again, your company may feel that way, but majority of large companiesE are leaning towards letting someone else like vendors worry about low F level OS stuff. They are outsourcing or contracting with vendors to do that for them.  E Mgmt today typically want their senior internal people working on App E stuff and-or interfacing with the business folks - not playing in the   weeds doing low level OS coding.  C And keep in mind that the OS costs are a very small part of most IT F budgets today. People and ISV software licenses typically dwarf the OS% costs in a typical overall IT budget.   ( > Can't do that without the source code. >=20  ? And how easy do you really think it would be to get coders that = understand deep level kernel, drivers, OS scheduling, process + management, SMP and clustering level code..    > Bill > --=20  > --=20 A >   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still=20 
 > buy it now! % >   pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com  >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:10:29 -0700 # From: Joe Bloggs <JBloggs@acme.com> ( Subject: Re: [VT200 and up] Defining UDK8 Message-ID: <epc182lfj5734mk5i5cc0njb2apb5ep8k7@4ax.com>  A On 2 Jun 2006 14:10:02 -0200, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN'  LANGSTOEGER) wrote:   I >I once had (and maybe even wrote it) a little program to make use of the I >User Definable Keys (UDK) of a VT220 be translating the definitions in a I >textfile to escape sequences sent. I had F6-F20 with three different UDK H >meanings (Shift, Control and Shift-Control) defined (in addition to the= >normal definition, which is an unchangeable escape sequence)   ' from DCL,  it's a bit ugly, but doable; ? outtputting, <csi> + <magic esc sequence> + <hex string> + <st>   ! one such magic sequence was  1;1| @ I'd have to dig in the closet for the VT200 programmer's booklet to find more.     5 the bits below, date from 4.7/5.x days (beginner DCL)   " $  @UDK.COM  F19   "ATTACH/PARENT"   $!E $! lines not beginning with $, wrapped from prior line by nntp client  $! $   set noon $   key_list       =: "*F6*F7*F8*F9*F10*F11*F12*F13*F14*HELP*DO*F17*F18*F19*F20*D $   key_num_list   = "*17*18*19*20*21*23*24*25*26*28*29*31*32*33*34* $   delimiter      = "*" $!+                    $! look for P1 in key list; 4 $! if found in list, save index of the list position $!- 	 $   i = 0  $ LOOP1:1 $       x = f$element( i+1, delimiter, key_list ) - $       if( x .eqs. p1  ) then goto END_LOOP1 4 $       if( x .eqs. delimiter  ) then goto END_LOOP1 $       i = i + 1  $       goto LOOP1 $ END_LOOP1: $!< $   no_match = ( x .eqs. delimiter )     ! True if not foundC $   if( no_match ) then write sys$output "Invalid key name; not set  ... "  $   if( no_match ) then exit $!7 $   key_num = f$element( i+1, delimiter, key_num_list ) < $   dcs[0,8]  = %X090   ! terminals set to 8-bit:  CSI (144)< $    st[0,8]  = %X09C   !                          ST  (156)= $!                                                            8 $!  dcs[0,16] = %X05B1B ! terminals set to 7-bit:  esc-[8 $!   st[0,16] = %X02A1B !                          esc-/ $!  $!  esc[0,8]        = %X01B ! 27  $!  left_brkt[0,8]  = %X05B ! 91  $!  forw_slsh[0,8]  = %X02A ! 47 $!                  = $!  dcs = esc + left_brkt  ! terminals set to 7-bit :   esc-[ = $!  st  = esc + forw_slsh  !                            esc-/  $! $   len      = f$length( p2 )  $   hex_str1 = ""  $   i        = 0	 $ NEXT_I: E $   hex_str1 = hex_str1 + f$fao( "!XB",f$cvsi(0,8,f$extract( i, 1, p2  ))) 
 $   i = i + 1 % $   if( i .lt. len ) then goto NEXT_I  $   len      = f$length( p3 )  $   hex_str2 = ""  $   j        = 0, $   if( "''p3'" .eqs. "" ) then goto SET_KEY $!	 $ NEXT_J: E $   hex_str2 = hex_str2 + f$fao( "!XB",f$cvsi(0,8,f$extract( j, 1, p3  ))) 
 $   j = j + 1 % $   if( j .lt. len ) then goto NEXT_J  $!+ C $! the "1;1" implies: clear re-def'ed keys only; don't lock against  re-def $!- 
 $ SET_KEY:C $   if( "''p3'" .eqs. "" ) then ctrl_str = dcs + "1;1|" + key_num +  "/" + hex_str1 + "0D" + stC $   if( "''p3'" .nes. "" ) then ctrl_str = dcs + "1;1|" + key_num + , "/" + hex_str1 + "0D" + hex_str2 + "0D" + st $   tab[0,8] = 9 $!< $   write sys$output tab + tab + "...setting key"            $   write sys$output ctrl_str    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 19:42:28 -0400) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> ( Subject: Re: [VT200 and up] Defining UDKF Message-ID: <7dd80f60606021642h1e8385lebfd1089044d7e55@mail.gmail.com>  / On 6/2/06, Joe Bloggs <JBloggs@acme.com> wrote: C > On 2 Jun 2006 14:10:02 -0200, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN'  > LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  > K > >I once had (and maybe even wrote it) a little program to make use of the K > >User Definable Keys (UDK) of a VT220 be translating the definitions in a K > >textfile to escape sequences sent. I had F6-F20 with three different UDK J > >meanings (Shift, Control and Shift-Control) defined (in addition to the? > >normal definition, which is an unchangeable escape sequence)  > ) > from DCL,  it's a bit ugly, but doable; A > outtputting, <csi> + <magic esc sequence> + <hex string> + <st>  > # > one such magic sequence was  1;1| B > I'd have to dig in the closet for the VT200 programmer's booklet > to find more.   F If you go to the web site <http://www.vt100.net/> you will find almostE all the manuals you need.  You may even find some you don't need. :-)    Ken    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.306 ************************