1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 04 Jun 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 308       Contents:- Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers - Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers  Re: My Boot Camp trip report Re: My Boot Camp trip report Re: My Boot Camp trip report Re: My Boot Camp trip report2 Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server" Two VAXBI Node number plugs neededD Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)' Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections... ' Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections... ' Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections... ' Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:15:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <4481DFD5.2BBA9BB3@teksavvy.com>   Paul Sture wrote: C > A bar of Swiss chocolate to say he will remain a majority of one.   E How long must I abstain from using the "8086" term before you ship me  the bar of chocolate ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:17:46 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers9 Message-ID: <aLednfZlk8Z33B_ZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote: D >> A bar of Swiss chocolate to say he will remain a majority of one. > G > How long must I abstain from using the "8086" term before you ship me  > the bar of chocolate ?  D A 'properly' bought person will stay bought.  A thief will take the : bribe and then default on his promise.  Which will you be?  G However, it was proposed as a bet to the bookie, not as a bribe to you.   F However, however, to not see you use that term again, ever, I'd allow 
 the bribe.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 00:30:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Intel to let go, re-assign 16,000 workers, Message-ID: <448261C7.2585E80F@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:E > A 'properly' bought person will stay bought.  A thief will take the < > bribe and then default on his promise.  Which will you be?  S No, it all depends on the deal. A chocolate bar isn't enough to buy me permanently.   I > However, it was proposed as a bet to the bookie, not as a bribe to you.   A You guys can still bet. But those who bet can sway the outcome by 
 "buying" me.    G What I could do however is propose a sponsorship programme. A chocolate A bar would keep me quiet for 2 weeks, during which, I would have a < signature in my messages stating something to the effect of:  G "The abstention from using the "8086" term this week has been sponsored  by: <name of sponsor>"  F And if shipment of chocolate bars stops, I would resume using the term :-) :-) :-)     H Heck, I could up the ante and have people pay me to abstain from postingG any messages on comp.os.vms for a whole week. I wonder how much money I A could be making :-) And it would be great publicity for those who  sponsor my silence.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:42:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: My Boot Camp trip report + Message-ID: <4481E63F.11A5AFD@teksavvy.com>   
 Sue wrote:H > What happens in the hallways after the sessions end is even more underF > NDA because we are freinds more than anything else, and there are no > NDA that could cover that.    G Its events like these where we miss Charlie Matco...  Sue, did you ever & wear a blue dress ???? :-) :-) :-) :-)  H I have seen NDAs that cover a presentation. This is easy because you canH easily circumscribe it to what is being said during that presentation inA that room.  But with a multi day event that has social functions, 1 lunches etc, how do they word/structure the NDA ?   H Surely not all the material covered during the event is of an NDA natureI (eg: discussion of announced features, features already implemented etc).   G And isn't the purpose of a bat in NH to get Digits "happy" and get them : to spill the beans oustide of the formal NDA setting ? :-)  F In fact, even you revealed some of the contents, as did Bruce C in theL daily dispatches (Shell and US Postal Service being cutsomers for instance).  F BTW, in terms of Guiness, I take it Vaxman is the one that emptied the hotel's stock ?     E > One of the young people suggested that I start a VMS youth program, & > which sounds like a good idea to me.  F It is called giving free software/hardware to schools/universities :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2006 16:08:50 -0700 ) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> % Subject: Re: My Boot Camp trip report B Message-ID: <1149376130.825341.69050@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  D Terry would have loved it, the hard part for him would have been all@ the NDA stuff we had more than usual this time he would have had# material to write about for months.   B Just for the record the John Wisniewski spirit award went to DavidD Cathey for his work on the VMS Hobby and Education program.  I stillB have have to give this award last because I still cry and probably always will.   sue      JF Mezei wrote:  > Sue wrote:J > > What happens in the hallways after the sessions end is even more underH > > NDA because we are freinds more than anything else, and there are no > > NDA that could cover that. > I > Its events like these where we miss Charlie Matco...  Sue, did you ever ( > wear a blue dress ???? :-) :-) :-) :-) > J > I have seen NDAs that cover a presentation. This is easy because you canJ > easily circumscribe it to what is being said during that presentation inC > that room.  But with a multi day event that has social functions, 3 > lunches etc, how do they word/structure the NDA ?  > J > Surely not all the material covered during the event is of an NDA natureK > (eg: discussion of announced features, features already implemented etc).  > I > And isn't the purpose of a bat in NH to get Digits "happy" and get them < > to spill the beans oustide of the formal NDA setting ? :-) > H > In fact, even you revealed some of the contents, as did Bruce C in theN > daily dispatches (Shell and US Postal Service being cutsomers for instance). > H > BTW, in terms of Guiness, I take it Vaxman is the one that emptied the > hotel's stock ?  >  > G > > One of the young people suggested that I start a VMS youth program, ( > > which sounds like a good idea to me. > H > It is called giving free software/hardware to schools/universities :-)
 > :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:47:12 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> % Subject: Re: My Boot Camp trip report / Message-ID: <Tdqdnf8ZY-JM1R_ZRVn-tg@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Sue wrote:J >> advertisement what happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas sounds about >> right to me.  > J > It is wrong !!!! We *NEED* to know all he gory details, jucy stories and
 > rumours :-)   G If you really want to know, then plan to attend next year.  That might  G even get me there.  Might supply the nerf bats to all who want to beat  H on you.  That might backfire and I might get the attention of the bats. >   Guess I better make sure they are of the ultra soft variety.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 00:39:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: My Boot Camp trip report , Message-ID: <448263DC.10D6A075@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > If you really want to know, then plan to attend next year.  That mightH > even get me there.  Might supply the nerf bats to all who want to beatI > on you.  That might backfire and I might get the attention of the bats. @ >   Guess I better make sure they are of the ultra soft variety.  H If I attend, it would have to be under a different name and not announceG my presence. If people knew in advance I would be attending, they would B be bringing real wooden bats and my foam bats would not be needed.  G Then again, I smell great sponsorship possibilities: "foam bats to beat ) up on JF have been provided by <sponsor>"    and another:  < "The duct tape on JF's mouth has been provided by <sponsor>"   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2006 06:30:10 +0100 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>; Subject: Re: OT: Sun release 8-socket/16-way SMP X64 server ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-MdJPXiqQs3bc@dave2_os2.home.ours>   E On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 13:54:08 UTC, "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:   7 > On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 23:04:12 -0700, Dave Weatherall   # > <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:  > J > > On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:28:03 UTC, "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > > K > >> On Wed, 31 May 2006 03:39:55 -0700, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>  > >> wrote:  > >> > >> > Moving on up... > >> >@ > >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/31/sun_x4600_ubunti/6 > >> > http://www.qassociates.co.uk/academic/84a.htm#2 > >> >! > >> > Sun Fire X4600 x64 server:  > >> > A67-QGZ8-4S-032CB1  > >> >9 > >> >      * 8xAMD Opteron Model 885 dual-core processor $ > >> >      * 16x2GB DDR1-400 memory > >> >      * 2x73GB SAS drive > >> >      * DVD-ROM & > >> >      * 4xPSU, Service Processor0 > >> >      * 4x10/100/1000 BaseT Ethernet ports > >> >      * 4xUSB 2.0 ports @ > >> >      * 2xPCI-X slots, 6x PCI-E slots (4x8-lane, 2x4-lane) > >> >      * no power cord ) > >> >      * order Geo-specific x-option  > >> >      * RoHS-5$ > >> >      * Standard Configuration > >> >* > >> > Academic Price: 	43,400  ($80,000) > >> > > >> >K > >> > Although 8-socket boards have been around for a while, Sun are the   
 > >> first > >> > tier one vendor to ship.  > >>( > >> Looks like a good system to run VMS > > ; > > I wonder if SRI is working on a Charon for Solaris.....  > > G > Simh should work.  BTW, have you see the price of the Tx fee for 66x0 @ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.htmlA > I wonder, do those extension licenses actually come with a pak?   F Thanks fo the link Tom. We get ever closer to stating down the Charon D route. I will get around to getting Simh working at home (and work) ? but for the company/customer stuff we'll need a 'professional'   (paid-support) product.    --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2006 21:21:34 -0700 $ From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob@jfcl.com>+ Subject: Two VAXBI Node number plugs needed B Message-ID: <1149394894.032880.42540@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  A   I need two of the little blue node number plugs that go on a BI C backplane.  I could use any two of the numbers 3, 9, 10, 14, or 15. C Does anybody have any extras that they'd be willing to sell, trade, ! barter, lend, give, lease, ... ??    Thanks much,
 Bob Armstrong  bob@jfcl.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:21:16 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 9 Message-ID: <aLednfFlk8Yh3x_ZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@libcom.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 6 >> From: Mark Berryman [mailto:mark@theberrymans.com]  >> Sent: May 31, 2006 3:33 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< >> Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating  >> potential VMS users)  >>  >> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:; >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote on   >> 05/25/2006 10:39:32 >>> AM:  >>>  >>>  >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>>>2 >>>>> In article <e54907$ljp$1@reader1.panix.com>,8 >>>>>   John F <john@pleaseSeeSigForAddress.com> writes: >>>>>  >>>>> < >>>>>> OP seems, in reply to your query, rather annoyed that? >>>>>> nobody's willing to take on his brilliant idea for free. 
 >>> [snip] >>> 6 >>>> Unix runs faster than VMS on comparable hardware. >>> 3 >>> I just cannot let that statement go unremarked. E >>> Unix may run faster, but without the reliability, so "comparable" F >>> is as always dependent on the business problem needing a solution. >>> One man's meat....@ >> I have done a number of head to head performance comparisons  >> of Unix vs. VMS, > >> usually on the same hardware.  Unix never won.  This would  >> have been in the VAX = >> days and a few years into the Alpha days.  I have not had   >> reason do to any @ >> recently.  However, neither have I seen anything to indicate  >> that the results  >> would now be different. >> >> Mark Berryman >> > 	 > Agreed.  > C > A couple of years ago (V7.3-2 timeframe), some *informal* testing I > compared Tru64 UNIX web type application benchmarks with OpenVMS on the J > same HW. The informal results were that OpenVMS performance was about 5%: > better in some areas and about 10% less in other areas.  > H > And while Tru64 did not have the market share that other UNIX's had, IE > do not think there are very many people (including competitors) who G > would not admit that Tru64 was (is) among the highest performing UNIX  > solutions available. > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > 6 > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.  F A VMS engineer, perhaps privately so I won't mention specifics, wrote I that many times the VMS engineers passed on attempting to use some Alpha  D capabilities that T64 did incorporate for speed.  He indicated that , speed wasn't the highest priority.  I agree.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 20:12:29 GMT @ From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aaron.schroeder-no-spam@tmscomputers.com>0 Subject: Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections...8 Message-ID: <N2mgg.14013$GM.12640@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:447CB254.D4AE4CE0@teksavvy.com... > "Schroeder, AJ" wrote:J >> Oh - that would make more sense. I have stripped off bascially any and  >> allC >> authorization and security from my VMS X server. Still no go on   >> connections.  > J > The MIT_COOKIES is a very low level authentication, it has nothint to do) > with authetification you can configure.  >  > J >> I will look again, but I didn't seem to find the logicals you speak of. >  > D > The TCPIP Services management manual has a whole chapted on XDMCP. > : > You do need to setup a few files. It is well documented. > I > To manually get XDM to serve specific hosts, you setup the XSERVERS.TXT F > file and put in the addresses of each Xterminal you want serviced byG > XDM. But this causes XDM to takle control of that X terminal with its > > dumbed down login screen. (bypasses the actual XDM protocol)  G I edited the XSERVERS.TXT file and that seemed to make zero difference.    > J > But looking at the doc, you are right, the logicals aren't there.  But IF > recall there being a way to get lots of info in the log file, so theJ > info may have been in the release notes for 5.3 when XDM was introduced.: > Or I may have found it by reading the actual procedures. >  > D > It has been a while, but when I learned that it didn't support MITG > COOKIES and my X terminal on an old mac used MIT COOKIES, I just gave  > up.  > I > much quicker to just use MC DECW$STARLOGIN to get the login screen onto  > an X terminal.   I just read this in the docs:   H The TCP/IP Services implementation of XDM does not support the indirect < query with a chooser box supported by some other XDM servers  H Which sounds like exactly what I am trying to do... so I am dead in the 1 water? Even if I implment some security measures?    AJ     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 16:44:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections..., Message-ID: <4481F4C0.8AD6FADF@teksavvy.com>   "Schroeder, AJ" wrote:I > The TCP/IP Services implementation of XDM does not support the indirect > > query with a chooser box supported by some other XDM servers  H The XDM protocol specifies that the X terminal makes a broadcast requestD and listens for any/all offers, it can then choose to respond to the offer it wants.     G Note that for earlier version of XDM, this was true. And if you use the H early XDM support by populating the XSERVERS.TXT file, it is still true.A This basically makes XDM behave a bit like 3270 terminals: only X F terminal IPs configured on the central host get  service when they are turned on.    F But the XDM software on VMS, when you do not use the XSERVERS.TXT file6 is supposed to support the current XDM protocol where:/ X-terminal "Hello, anyone willing to serve me ? , host-1     "Yep, Host 1 offers ist services", host-2     "Yes, Host 2 offers its services"- host-3      "Yes, Host 3 offers its services" - X-Terminal: "OK, I'll take Host-2's services.   H (at which point, the x terminal and host-2 complete the XDM protocol and% Host-2 then displays a login banner).         H I checked my TCPIP$XDM directory. I had left some log files in it. TurnsG out I had used TCPTRACE to look at the packet exchanges and that is how G I found out abot the MIT-COOKIES thing.  So it wasn't a logical to turn H debugging on as I had remembered. (however, the log file do indicate one8 can set TCPIP$XDM_DEBUG and TCPIP$XDM_DEBUG_W logicals.)  I > Which sounds like exactly what I am trying to do... so I am dead in the 3 > water? Even if I implment some security measures?   H Since the XDM software is fairly recent on VMS, I don't quite understandF why they didn't take a modern implementation of XDM and then just callB DECS$STARTLOGIN once the XDM negotiation has been done and let theD standard VMS login procedure take its course instead of using a very( basic and extremely insecure login code.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 20:49:30 GMT @ From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aaron.schroeder-no-spam@tmscomputers.com>0 Subject: Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections...7 Message-ID: <uBmgg.14198$GM.4852@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:447CB254.D4AE4CE0@teksavvy.com... > "Schroeder, AJ" wrote:J >> Oh - that would make more sense. I have stripped off bascially any and  >> allC >> authorization and security from my VMS X server. Still no go on   >> connections.  > J > The MIT_COOKIES is a very low level authentication, it has nothint to do) > with authetification you can configure.  >  > J >> I will look again, but I didn't seem to find the logicals you speak of. >  > D > The TCPIP Services management manual has a whole chapted on XDMCP. > : > You do need to setup a few files. It is well documented. > I > To manually get XDM to serve specific hosts, you setup the XSERVERS.TXT F > file and put in the addresses of each Xterminal you want serviced byG > XDM. But this causes XDM to takle control of that X terminal with its > > dumbed down login screen. (bypasses the actual XDM protocol) > J > But looking at the doc, you are right, the logicals aren't there.  But IF > recall there being a way to get lots of info in the log file, so theJ > info may have been in the release notes for 5.3 when XDM was introduced.: > Or I may have found it by reading the actual procedures. >  > D > It has been a while, but when I learned that it didn't support MITG > COOKIES and my X terminal on an old mac used MIT COOKIES, I just gave  > up.  > I > much quicker to just use MC DECW$STARLOGIN to get the login screen onto  > an X terminal.   JF,   L On a hunch that it in fact was my Sun machine I installed Exceed onto an XP G machine here and I did an XDMCP broadcast and Voila! I can login to my   OpenVMS system!   ; Now I have to get my Sun machine and OpenVMS to play nice.     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 16:54:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections..., Message-ID: <4481F71B.C68D1952@teksavvy.com>   "Schroeder, AJ" wrote:M > On a hunch that it in fact was my Sun machine I installed Exceed onto an XP H > machine here and I did an XDMCP broadcast and Voila! I can login to my > OpenVMS system!     H do a TCPTRACE of the network while the XDM communication is happening onH both the PC and SUN machines. I suspect you'll be seeing something like:   (bike was the XDM server node).  5 UDP Source Port = 177,   UDP Destination Port = 32785 D    UDP Header and Datagram Length = 55 = ^x0037,   Checksum = ^xB59F  H    0A00000A   8EBE111E   0040FE89   4B000045    0000    E..K..@.........H    05000100 | 9FB53700   1180B100 | 0C00000A    0010    .........7......H    6E697861   762E656B   69621200   00002900    0020    .)....bike.vaxinH    6E696C6C   69571100   61632E6E   6F697461    0030    ation.ca..WillinC                 656761   6E616D20   6F742067    0040    g to manage   A UDP Header and Datagram Length = 48 = ^x0030,   Checksum = ^xCB64   H    0C00000A   F87E11FF   00409AE8   44000045    0000    E..D..@...~.....H    07000100 | 64CB3000   B1001180 | 0A00000A    0010    .........0.d....H    54494D12   00010000   00000000   00002200    0020    ."...........MITH    00312D45   494B4F4F   432D4349   47414D2D    0030    -MAGIC-COOKIE-1.<                                     58494D03    0040    .MIX  A UDP Header and Datagram Length = 36 = ^x0024,   Checksum = ^xC649   H    0A00000A   A0FE111E   0000FF89   38000045    0000    E..8............H    09000100 | 49C62400   1180B100 | 0C00000A    0010    .........$.I....H    64646120   64696C61   76206F4E   10001600    0020    ....No valid add@                          00000000   73736572    0030    ress....  G I've never gotten it to work on my network, so I don't have any packets H that "work" to compare against. If you can trace the Exceed dialog, thenH this would provide some point of comparison to see what is different and
 why it works.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.308 ************************