1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Jun 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 340       Contents:. Re: Absolute disbelief! (Was Re: OT Re Update)8 Re: Alphaserver 2100 needs a good home - South Cambs, UK% Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog ) Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog ) Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog ) Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog ) Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog ) Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog ) Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog " Re: Compiling Problem with LibCurl* Re: create and modify user, but not delete$ Re: FYI: New version of FAKE_RTL.COM% Re: How can I read a locked VMS file? % Re: How can I read a locked VMS file? % Re: How can I read a locked VMS file? % Re: How can I read a locked VMS file? % Re: How can I read a locked VMS file? ' Power supply for Alphastation 400 4/233 P Re: Q: (long) DCL symbols not appearing in Show Symbol output [SLS    V2.9H]    P Re: Q: (long) DCL symbols not appearing in Show Symbol output [SLS  V2.9H]  V2.9P Re: Q: (long) DCL symbols not appearing in Show Symbol output [SLS V2.9H] V2.9H]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 19 Jun 2006 14:06:27 -05004 From: kuhrt.nospammy@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)7 Subject: Re: Absolute disbelief! (Was Re: OT Re Update) 3 Message-ID: <6K2JK5CEiLV7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <S5KdnYiSmpOc7QjZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Richard Maher wrote: >> Hi Paul,  >>  , >>> According to an old email from APR-2004: >>> I >>> "German beer and sausages cannot be sold in the 2006 Soccer World Cup L >>> stadiums in Germany. The official transport won't be BMW, VW or Mercedes >>> either, but Hyundai. >>  I >> Next you'll be telling me that they light up the stadium's new dome in N >> Dortmund yellow and black for Bayern home games??? What is the world coming- >> to? Are there no souls that can be bought?  > J > I'm thinking that such exist.  How about the referee in the US vs Italy I > match on Saturday?  An Italian player gets an entirely valid red card.  I > Then a US player gets a red card for something not worth even a yellow  I > at the end of the first half.  Finally another US player gets a second  I > yellow on a questionable call.  Instead of being up one player, the US  ) > has to finish the game one player down.   I Don't forget the "interference" call that invalidated the second US goal.  Yikes.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:35:03 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)A Subject: Re: Alphaserver 2100 needs a good home - South Cambs, UK $ Message-ID: <e771pm$jnk$1@online.de>  > In article <e76ecd$sja$1@bozon2.softax.pl>, "Robert Trawinski") <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> writes:    
 > Poland ?  H Sorry, no.  This reminds me of the time someone said "I'd appreciate it I if you would take ALL my hardware" and I said "sure; I'm sure I can pass  I along what I don't need to a good home", only to soon become perhaps the  D first and only person to get a full PDP-11 rack into a VW Polo!  In D other words, it looks like both the 2000 and the 2100 are taken.  I / wouldn't have been going to Poland in any case.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:10:01 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> . Subject: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog2 Message-ID: <t1Hlg.2079$j75.1831@news.cpqcorp.net>    From Business Week:? http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_25/b3989071.htm   
 JUNE 19, 2006  By Peter Burrows and Steve Hamm  INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY   Tech Has A New Top Dog  F HP is now outselling IBM, signaling a shift -- and a challenge -- for  the industry  F "Tech is about to get a new biggest behemoth. It's HP. The Palo Alto, I Calif., PC and printer giant had higher sales than IBM last quarter, and  H analysts project it will finish 2006 with greater annual sales than Big K Blue for the first time ever: $91 billion for HP vs. $90.5 billion for IBM.  ... F But, because the companies have chosen fundamentally different paths, @ with HP aggressively going after consumers while IBM focuses on F corporations, HP is expected to grow faster than IBM in coming years." ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:28:27 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog) Message-ID: <op.tbe4xpkpzgicya@hyrrokkin>   3 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:10:01 -0700, Keith Parris  =   % <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  From Business Week:A > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_25/b3989071.htm  >  > JUNE 19, 2006 ! > By Peter Burrows and Steve Hamm  > INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY >  > Tech Has A New Top Dog > I > HP is now outselling IBM, signaling a shift -- and a challenge -- for =   =   > the industry > I > "Tech is about to get a new biggest behemoth. It's HP. The Palo Alto, =   =  I > Calif., PC and printer giant had higher sales than IBM last quarter, a=  nd  =   I > analysts project it will finish 2006 with greater annual sales than Bi=  g  =  I > Blue for the first time ever: $91 billion for HP vs. $90.5 billion for=    =    > IBM. > ... I > But, because the companies have chosen fundamentally different paths, =   =  D > with HP aggressively going after consumers while IBM focuses on  =  I > corporations, HP is expected to grow faster than IBM in coming years."=    > ... G Bigger is not better.  Look at the margins.  The article indicated that D the operating profit last year was $1.7B  with printers contributingI over 1/2 of that.  If you use that figure with the $91B you get a margin=   I of less than 2%.  Note also that the Lenovo spin-off whilst reducing IBM=   I sales by $11B actually improved the bottom line by shedding the low marg=  in	 business.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:37:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog, Message-ID: <44974349.CA842B68@teksavvy.com>   Keith Parris wrote: G > But, because the companies have chosen fundamentally different paths, A > with HP aggressively going after consumers while IBM focuses on H > corporations, HP is expected to grow faster than IBM in coming years." > ...     H Hint Hint: VMS would grow faster if it were made more mainstream and ranE on industry standard/"commondity platform and thus seen as a solution 7 for small/medium businesses where the growth really is.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:22:51 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog) Message-ID: <op.tbe7gdy0zgicya@hyrrokkin>   3 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:12:34 -0700, Keith Parris  =   % <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:    > Tom Linden wrote:  >> Bigger is not better. > I > But being better is what allows you to grow bigger. And HP has grown  =    > better, and grown bigger.  > 9 >> Note also that the Lenovo spin-off whilst reducing IBM I >> sales by $11B actually improved the bottom line by shedding the low  =   	 >> margin  >> business. > I > Don't miss the underlying fundamental issue here: IBM couldn't manage =  to  =   I > get its PC business to be profitable and finally had to throw in the  =   I > towel. Meanwhile, HP was getting leaner and meaner, making a profit on=    =   I > PCs, grabbing market share from Dell while putting downward pressure o=  n  =   > Dell's earnings.  I I think IBM's PC business was profitable, just not profitable enough.  I=  f I HP can get their PC margins above, say 10% it might make sense to keep i=  t,I but if that were there only business they couldn't long survive with tha=  t I kind of a margin.  Heck, OpenVMS has twice that. So why should profitabl=  e  =   sectors  subsidize the PC business?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:12:34 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> 2 Subject: Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog2 Message-ID: <6YHlg.2081$s75.1228@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > Bigger is not better.   E But being better is what allows you to grow bigger. And HP has grown   better, and grown bigger.   8 > Note also that the Lenovo spin-off whilst reducing IBML > sales by $11B actually improved the bottom line by shedding the low margin > business.   I Don't miss the underlying fundamental issue here: IBM couldn't manage to  E get its PC business to be profitable and finally had to throw in the  G towel. Meanwhile, HP was getting leaner and meaner, making a profit on  H PCs, grabbing market share from Dell while putting downward pressure on  Dell's earnings.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:02:50 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog9 Message-ID: <LKednXQePtGnywrZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@libcom.com>    Keith Parris wrote:  >  From Business Week:A > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_25/b3989071.htm  >  > JUNE 19, 2006 ! > By Peter Burrows and Steve Hamm  > INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY >  > Tech Has A New Top Dog > H > HP is now outselling IBM, signaling a shift -- and a challenge -- for  > the industry > H > "Tech is about to get a new biggest behemoth. It's HP. The Palo Alto, K > Calif., PC and printer giant had higher sales than IBM last quarter, and  J > analysts project it will finish 2006 with greater annual sales than Big M > Blue for the first time ever: $91 billion for HP vs. $90.5 billion for IBM.  > ... H > But, because the companies have chosen fundamentally different paths, B > with HP aggressively going after consumers while IBM focuses on H > corporations, HP is expected to grow faster than IBM in coming years." > ...   C I doubt the profits from the consumer sales will be as good as the    profits from the business sales.  D Still, it's nice to think that HP doesn't have the issue of falling > sales to instigate cuts in the more profitable business units.  G Then again, success in consumer sales might cause HP to think business    sales aren't all that important.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:51:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Business Week: Tech Has A New Top Dog, Message-ID: <449770AE.5C7F931F@teksavvy.com>   Keith Parris wrote: J > Don't miss the underlying fundamental issue here: IBM couldn't manage toF > get its PC business to be profitable and finally had to throw in theH > towel. Meanwhile, HP was getting leaner and meaner, making a profit onI > PCs, grabbing market share from Dell while putting downward pressure on  > Dell's earnings.  H HP may have improved its dismal PC operations, but in the long term, canG it compete against asian companies like Lenovo once those guys start to  learn about branding ?  E Now, HP already has much of its production in China, so it may have a G chance to compete in the longer term. IBM managed to monetize assets in % the USA before they lost their value.   D But as PCs commoditise, the'll become like TVs and even US companies will lose out to asian brands.  C IBM was first out of the game of musical PC chairs.  Eventually, US G assets of PC makers won't have much value so when/if HP decides to shed A its PC business, there may not be anyone interested in buying it.   H On the other hand, one has to applaud western companies who at least try? to compete head to head aginst the low cost producers in Asia.      H Another thing to consider: Even if Moore's law continues, I think you'llF see PC gain longer and longer lifetimes before becoming museum pieces.H And that means lower volumes in the western world. The growth will be inG developping nations and for those markets, US companies cannot compete.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:38:32 +0800 ) From: Tim Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> + Subject: Re: Compiling Problem with LibCurl 8 Message-ID: <449727fe$0$9818$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   Marty Kuhrt wrote:C >> FWIW I have been busy re-organising the latest cURL distribution C >> to support a PCSI build. The current PCSI kit that has been made - >> available is not as great as I would like.  > , > There is a PCSI kit for cURL?  News to me.  C We build one internally and someone asked for it. There was mention F of it on OpenVMS.org. It wasn't intended to be released to the public.   > C >> I'm not sure what I'll do about rolling it into the general cURL  >> distribution as yet.  >  > Ask Daniel for CVS access. > I >> I have shuffled most of the VMS stuff around and added TECO macros and A >> DCL to generate some VMS specific bits and pieces. Not sure on ) >> a release date, but it should be soon.  > ? > Most of the VMS stuff was in the [.packages.vms] directory, I C > thought.  The various bits get copied to their target directories ? > if they are different.  What VMS stuff were you referring to?   B I have re-worked the message file. I now auto-generate it based on? the contents of [.lib]strerror.c. I have also added some curlx_ = modules that provide routines for converting between cURL and 8 VMS status codes. There are some others bits and pieces.  7 I was going to get it mostly going and drop you a line.    > B >> There also seems to be some problems related to SSL and cURL on+ >> VMS that I'm trying to sort out as well.  > B > Haven't seen any reports on the cURL-library mailing list.  What > are the problems?   ? The problem was reported to me by someone trying to use my PCSI C kit. I have been able to re-produce it and at the moment I'm trying > to determine if it is related to my release of cURL or cURL in general.  
 Regards, Tim.    --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jun 2006 14:00:11 -05004 From: kuhrt.nospammy@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)3 Subject: Re: create and modify user, but not delete 3 Message-ID: <HIzXTXAe0vyd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <1150404589.904150.165380@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, mabbuttg@yahoo.ca writes: I > We have a need for one of our operators to be able to create and modify E > user accounts, but we want to prevent him from being able to delete  > them.  > H > For the moment he has full rights across the board, which I'm not very8 > comfortable with, but occasionally there is some queueE > management/creation/deletion/manipulation of jobs we get him to do.  > I > What can I set up either in system priveleges or inside of AUTHORIZE to # > restrict him from deleting users?  > @ > Mostly we use the OpenVMS Management Station on Windows, whichG > presumably is interfacing with AUTHORIZE somehow.  This is running on  > OpenVMS 7.3-1 Alpha. > 	 > Thanks,  > Glenn   A There was a product called XUAFMAESTRO out there that allowed you @ to decided which users could update which fields in the UAF.  It@ could also allow you to connect to any node via DECnet or TCP/IP@ and update/create UAF info.  It was sold by HIS Software AG, but* I haven't found a link to them recently.    > If I was to take a guess, I'd think it might be called Geneous? Software AG, now, www.geneous.com.  The product might be called > Identity Management & Provisioning and supports more platforms* than just VMS, too.  Just a guess, though.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:05:07 GMT  From: hoff@hp.nospam () - Subject: Re: FYI: New version of FAKE_RTL.COM 2 Message-ID: <nHBlg.2046$EN4.1897@news.cpqcorp.net>    A Logical names used for privileged image redirection need to be in ? trusted modes in trusted tables, as you've found -- this is via @ the LNM$FILE_DEV mechanism, and how it translates when operating= within what have been refered to as paranoid-mode operations.   @ Calling into LIBRTL or other RTL images isn't supported from any? inner-mode code, and requires particular care to secure -- the  < reason it's locked out is simply because it's comparatively @ difficult to secure, and is relatively easy to attack.  Through A no fault of your UWSS code, I'd expect its fairly easy to get the B UWSS code to tip over here (no more so than usual, for applicationD code, but cases involving the use of UWSS implies "it's a target"), ? and may well be feasible to use the UWSS code involved here as  > a way to breach system security.  (If you can always trust the@ code calling the UWSS, then you don't have to worry about such.)  A I haven't looked to see how Rdb secures the UWSS code within that  product.  B In most cases, I'd tend to install the main executable image -- ifB that's feasible -- if I trust the caller, then I'll tend to simply@ configure the whole application to start up, disable privileges,B and "have at."  You could also solve this by sending over some XMLE data, via mailbox or secure datalink, too.  (Though here, you clearly D have a solution in mind involving UWSS (and not XML :-), so, by all D means, do whatever you believe is correct.  It's your code and your B particular situation, and you and local your management chain get  to make the choices.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:57:07 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>. Subject: Re: How can I read a locked VMS file?, Message-ID: <4496E570.2203BAF5@teksavvy.com>  	 Question:   H When in C, one uses the fsynch routing or fflush, (allowing another userH to type the file and see the contents recently written to it), I take it* that it actually updates the EOF pointer ?    H If you write a single line of text (and thus smaller amount of data thanF the RMS buffers, does this mean that it stays in the memory and not onB disk eternally until you close the file (or do an fflush/fsynch) ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:17:34 GMT  From: hoff@hp.nospam () . Subject: Re: How can I read a locked VMS file?2 Message-ID: <2TBlg.2054$UR4.1574@news.cpqcorp.net>  ] In article <4496E570.2203BAF5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:   K |> When in C, one uses the fsynch routing or fflush, (allowing another user K |> to type the file and see the contents recently written to it), I take it - |> that it actually updates the EOF pointer ?      Yes.  K |> If you write a single line of text (and thus smaller amount of data than I |> the RMS buffers, does this mean that it stays in the memory and not on E |> disk eternally until you close the file (or do an fflush/fsynch) ?      No.   D   Easier to follow the discussion and the description and the C codeJ shown in the OpenVMS FAQ; to request this file-level shared-access happen F entirely automatically and transparently.  The whole discussion -- theA fflush and fsync calls, and the access overrides -- becomes moot.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:07:37 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> . Subject: Re: How can I read a locked VMS file?E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0606191303270.28755@localhost.localdomain>   3 On Sun, 18 Jun 2006, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:    >  > Rob Brown wrote:@ >> OPENLOG.TXT;2              0/12       16-JUN-2006 09:30:50.51@ >> COPY.TXT;9                 0/12       16-JUN-2006 09:30:50.51 > ' > Well, 12 blocks is simply not enough.   > My apologies.  I did not make myself clear in that post or in  subsequent posts.   B In the situation shown above, I did DUMP/ALLOCATED of both files. E This verified that the data really *was* in OPENLOG.TXT, but was not   copied to COPY.TXT.   F > The default RMS buffer size was 16 pagelettes/blocks = 8KB, and was E > bumped to 23 pagelettes. I woudl expect the 0/400+ file originally  E > reported to have pleny of sefull data already comitted to the disk.   F Without a doubt.  The point I was trying to make was that BACKUP will " not copy the data to another file.   hth    - Rob      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jun 2006 13:59:05 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>. Subject: Re: How can I read a locked VMS file?B Message-ID: <1150750744.941822.25700@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   StevensSpam@cfl.rr.com wrote: I > Wow, DUMP/ALLOCATED worked! I really doubted there would be a solution.  > Thanks! You are amazing. >  > 
 > Thanks!!  ' You can probably do a whole lot better.   E Check the MACRO code I wrote just now below for a potential solution. + I wrote in macro to accomodate all systems.   C It simply opens the file with RMS in shared mode adn copies record.   D The reason CONVERT (and TYPE and SEARCH) do not work on this file isB that they use the RMS option SHR=UPI to minimize locking overhead.A However this prevents RMS from reading the actual EOF in the lock  associated with the file.   D I have discussed the problem with this with Guy in the past and will% attempt to pick up that conversation.    Enjoy, Hein.             .psect  data, wrt, noexe buf:    .blkb   32*1024  header: .blkb   64* infab:  $FAB fnm=sys$input,fac=get,shr=put; inrab:  $RAB fab=infab,usz=32000,ubf=buf,rop=rah,rhb=header   # outfab: $FAB fnm=sys$output,fac=put A outrab: $RAB fab=outfab,mbc=50,rbf=buf,rsz=400,rop=wbh,rhb=header             .psect  code, nowrt, exe         .entry  start,0          $OPEN fab=infab          blbc    r0,end1         movb    infab+fab$b_rat, outfab+fab$b_rat 1         movb    infab+fab$b_rfm, outfab+fab$b_rfm 1         movb    infab+fab$b_fsz, outfab+fab$b_fsz          $open fab=outfab         blbc    r0,end         $connect rab=inrab         blbc    r0,end         $connect rab=outrab          blbc    r0,end loop:          $get    rab=inrab          blbc    r0,end1         movw    inrab+rab$w_rsz, outrab+rab$w_rsz          $put    rab=outrab         blbc    r0,end         brw     loop   end:         cmpl    r0,#RMS$_EOF         beql    succes         ret  succes:          movl    #1, r0         ret          .end    start    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jun 2006 14:22:43 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>. Subject: Re: How can I read a locked VMS file?C Message-ID: <1150752162.974402.228680@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Rob Brown wrote:) > On Fri, 16 Jun 2006, Dave Froble wrote:  >  > > Rob Brown wrote:F > >> I did some experiments with VMS/Alpha V7.1.  It appears that this/ > >> approach does not give the desired result.  : ? > > An interesting experiment, and not the results I would have 
 > > expected.   = > > The BACKUP >>should<< pick up all allocated disk storage.  >  > If only that were true.   4 It should. Somehow. If need be with an extra switch.  G > > The 'proper' place to handle such is in the application writing the 
 > > log file.  >  > Evidently.  F Beg to differ. The application, in Rob's example does everything write (:-)> The readers VMS provide are could be improved on (are broken?)  ? I replied it with a MACRO program already to show the writer is  correct.  9 I forgot to put the really simple solution in that reply. 4 Just open the file with DCL for READ, allowing WRITE/ Then use the logical name. Using Rob's example:    % $ open/read/share=write x openlog.txt  $ type x   Enjoy! Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:46:17 -0700   From: Z <SpamDumpst3r@yahoo.com>0 Subject: Power supply for Alphastation 400 4/233) Message-ID: <JWElg.1956$z75.250@fe04.lga>   K Is the power supply in an Alphastation 400 4/233 a vanilla AT power supply?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:23:56 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>Y Subject: Re: Q: (long) DCL symbols not appearing in Show Symbol output [SLS    V2.9H]     + Message-ID: <e7714t$5qo$1@news01.intel.com>   ' On 6/17/2006 6:28 AM, Paul Sture wrote:  > Ken Fairfield wrote:* >> On 6/16/2006 4:49 PM, Paul Sture wrote: >> [...] I >> Essentially the same thing.  In some circumstances, I found that using " >> the * shows more.  For example, >> >  >  > $ sho symb x*1 >  >  X = 1   Hex = 00000001  Octal = 00000000001  >  >  X == "one" > " > OK. Now back to your first post. >  > E >  >    2) 'status' is not present on any of the wildcard Show Symbol F >  >       commands, nor on "Show Symbol [ /Local | /Global ] status".G >  >       However, the local symbol 'status' is present (see output of E >  >       the next to last Show Symbol command below).  How can that  >  >       be??  >  > ...  >  >  > > $ Show Symbol last B >  > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling >  > $ Show Symbol status  >  >   STATUS = "%X10A38410" > H > Eh? That's the value $STATUS gets with %DCL-W-UNDSYM; well except for  > the most significant bit:  >  > $ show sym status ? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  > $ show symbol $status  >   $STATUS == "%X00038140" 
 > $ help/mess  >  > : >  UNDSYM,  undefined symbol - check validity and spelling >  >          ...  ? Just an odd coincidence of (part of) the message numbers, Paul:   # $ set message sys$message:sysmgtmsg ( $ write sys$output f$message(%X10A38410); %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, !AS is open for write by another user  $   0 SYSMGTMSG.EXE is where BACKUP messages are kept.  @ I think David and Graham have the write answer; see my follow-up there.       -Ken --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:37:50 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> Y Subject: Re: Q: (long) DCL symbols not appearing in Show Symbol output [SLS  V2.9H]  V2.9 ; Message-ID: <999e0$4497192f$50db5015$21600@news.hispeed.ch>    Ken Fairfield wrote:) > On 6/17/2006 6:28 AM, Paul Sture wrote:  >  >> Ken Fairfield wrote:  >>+ >>> On 6/16/2006 4:49 PM, Paul Sture wrote:  >>>  > [...]  > J >>> Essentially the same thing.  In some circumstances, I found that using# >>> the * shows more.  For example,  >>>  >> >>  > $ sho symb x* 2 >>  >  X = 1   Hex = 00000001  Octal = 00000000001 >>  >  X == "one"  >># >> OK. Now back to your first post.  >> >>F >>  >    2) 'status' is not present on any of the wildcard Show SymbolG >>  >       commands, nor on "Show Symbol [ /Local | /Global ] status". H >>  >       However, the local symbol 'status' is present (see output ofF >>  >       the next to last Show Symbol command below).  How can that >>  >       be?? >> >> ... >> >>  > > $ Show Symbol lastC >>  > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  >>  > $ Show Symbol status >>  >   STATUS = "%X10A38410"  >>I >> Eh? That's the value $STATUS gets with %DCL-W-UNDSYM; well except for   >> the most significant bit: >> >> $ show sym status@ >> %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling >> $ show symbol $status >>   $STATUS == "%X00038140" >> $ help/mess >> >>; >>  UNDSYM,  undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  >> >>          ...  >  > A > Just an odd coincidence of (part of) the message numbers, Paul:  > % > $ set message sys$message:sysmgtmsg * > $ write sys$output f$message(%X10A38410)= > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, !AS is open for write by another user  > $  > 2 > SYSMGTMSG.EXE is where BACKUP messages are kept. >   ( Mystery solved! That one had me baffled.  B > I think David and Graham have the write answer; see my follow-up > there. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:43:38 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>Y Subject: Re: Q: (long) DCL symbols not appearing in Show Symbol output [SLS V2.9H] V2.9H] + Message-ID: <e7729r$6ci$1@news01.intel.com>   * On 6/17/2006 3:48 AM, Graham Burley wrote:\ > In article <e6vbik$7m6$2@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: > G >> Can anyone explain what is happening?  Is there a 3rd, or 4th, class B >> of symbols I've never heard of that are hidden (sometimes) from& >> Show Symbol??  Have I gone crazy??? > F > Maybe it's just the scope, e.g. in this example A does not appear in2 > the show symbol output in XYZ but is accessible. > $ > $ set sym/scope=(nolocal,noglobal)* > $ write sys$output f$env("SYMBOL_SCOPE")	 > $ a = 1 
 > $ sho sym *  > $ write sys$output a > $ call XYZ > $exit  > $! > $XYZ: subroutine* > $ write sys$output f$env("SYMBOL_SCOPE")
 > $ sho sym *  > $ write sys$output a > $exit   @ I think Graham, and David Dachtera in his follow-up, have nailed it. :-)   A The point seems to be that a symbol defined locally in an _outer_ ? procedure is *neither* local, *nor* global, in the inner/called ? procedure.  Of course you are still able to reference the local = symbols of the outer procedure(s), but you can't modify them.   ? This makes some sense (in a perverse sort of way)...  If in the = inner procedure, you write "$a=2", that creates "a" in the as > a *local* symbol to inner procedure; it doesn't modify the "a"@ in the outer procedure.  OTOH, if you write "$a==2" in the inner@ procedure, you've created a *global* symbol "a"; again, you have4 not modified the outer procedure's local symbol "a".  A Interesting stuff.  I've certainly used calling procedures' local B symbols in inner procedures.  I've just never tried to Show SymbolE them before.  I guess I'm not dead yet...ya' learn somthing new every  day! :-)   	Thanks, Ken --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.340 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            sc/decus/freewarev70/cdrecorde= >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cdrecord.e	 <<< PWDsG >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cdrecord" is current directory.r  <<< PORT 83,167,102,34,177,1826 >>> 200 Port 177.182 at Host 83.167.102.34 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.2 >>> 226 Transfer completed..	 <<< PWDTG >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cdrecord" is current directory.7 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cgi_scripts_wasdrE >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cgi_scripts_wasd.o	 <<< PWD/O >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cgi_scripts_wasd" is current directory.r  <<< PORT 83,167,102,34,239,1856 >>> 200 Port 239.185 at Host 83.167.102.34 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.p >>> 226 Transfer completed.t	 <<< PWD O >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/cgi_scripts_wasd" is current directory.7, <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl04: >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl04.	 <<< PWD/D >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl04" is current directory. <<< PORT 83,167,102,34,248,34_5 >>> 200 Port 248.34 at Host 83.167.102.34 accepted.,
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.5 >>> 226 Transfer completed..	 <<< PWDTD >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl04" is current directory.0 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_check> >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_check.	 <<< PWDlH >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_check" is current directory. <<< PORT 83,167,102,34,213,34 >>> 200 Port 213.3 at Host 83.167.102.34 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.8 >>> 226 Transfer completed.t	 <<< PWD H >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_check" is current directory./ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_dieti= >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_diet.l	 <<< PWD>G >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev70/dcl_diet" is current directory. <<< PORT 83,167,102,34,179,30e5 >>> 200 Port 179.30 at Host 83.167