1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 24 Mar 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 166       Contents:9 BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior" = Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior" P Re: Bliss-11 (Was: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application DevP Bliss-11 (Was: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Develop% Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ( Re: Converting SYSDEVICE from ODS-2 to 5* Creating Multiple TCP Printing Processors. Re: F$FAO (!%D)  Re: F$FAO (!%D) 2 Re: How to use telnet to brows web page within VMS howto blacklist an IP ?  Re: howto blacklist an IP ?  Re: howto blacklist an IP ? > Re: HP OpenVMS CIFS announcement - Evaluation kit availability Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium?/ Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java? / Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java? / Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java? 
 Newbie guide?  Re: old uVAX needs a home 5 Re: OpenVMS and Advanced Server: Just Ask The Vendor! = Re: Opinion: I see my future without VMS and I don't like it. = Re: Opinion: I see my future without VMS and I don't like it. = Re: Opinion: I see my future without VMS and I don't like it.  OT: More on Carly's Legacy( Re: OT:HUMOR VMS Just Add Power Campaign  Reading COMP.OS.VMS with browser0 Re: Stupid DCL tricks - but this is more useless0 Re: Stupid DCL tricks - but this is more useless  Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logoutG Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:50:35 GMT + From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> B Subject: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior"> Message-ID: <fxNUf.58880$H71.21373@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>  @ If you have a Protected Subsystem ACE (Chap 13, Guide to System I Security) on a file in the input stream to BACKUP, you need to know that  H this SUBSYSTEM ACE is silently deleted from files created by the output F stream, regardless of what privileges the account running BACKUP has. A Yes, even when logged in as SYSTEM with SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=ALL   8 According to VMS Engineering this is "intended behavior"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:17:57 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) F Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior"2 Message-ID: <9RVUf.5280$f55.5024@news.cpqcorp.net>  l In article <fxNUf.58880$H71.21373@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> writes:* :If you have a Protected Subsystem ACE ...2 :...input stream to BACKUP, you need to know that I :this SUBSYSTEM ACE is silently deleted from files created by the output  G :stream, regardless of what privileges the account running BACKUP has.  B :Yes, even when logged in as SYSTEM with SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=ALL : 9 :According to VMS Engineering this is "intended behavior"     G   This prohibition is intended to prevent an untrusted user from adding F   a subsystem identifier onto an image.  The intent is to ensure that G   the user adding the subsystem identifier possesses it, and users that <   do not have the identifier cannot create an image with it.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 15:17:03 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: Bliss-11 (Was: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Dev + Message-ID: <48igrfFkcduuU1@individual.net>   2 In article <EDTUf.5253$v15.1795@news.cpqcorp.net>,: 	John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:6 >> In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>> ( >>>   Real programmers do it with BLISS. >>  J >> I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11? > K > Here is a alleged to be a cross compiler that you can run on a simulated  	 > PDP-10.  > 9 > http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/TOOL/BLISS11-1.html  > % > ftp://iecc.com/pub/file/bliss.tar.Z  >   A Yes, but setting up and learning to admin as well as use a PDP-10 ? is an awful lot of work to get a compiler for a language I have B never used.  :-)  I think I'll wait and see if the VMS one becomes
 available.   billD (who doesn't much care for emulated VAX or PDP-11 systems, much less  a PDP-10!)    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:47:00 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> Y Subject: Bliss-11 (Was: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Develop 2 Message-ID: <EDTUf.5253$v15.1795@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>' >>   Real programmers do it with BLISS.  > I > I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11?   I Here is a alleged to be a cross compiler that you can run on a simulated   PDP-10.   7 http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/TOOL/BLISS11-1.html   # ftp://iecc.com/pub/file/bliss.tar.Z    -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:45:43 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> . Subject: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5( Message-ID: <ops6w9yhnqzgicya@hyrrokkin>  K I would like to put another drive in a 7.3-1 (will be up graded to 8.2, 3    also) G and create a duplicate of the system disk on the new one, so will the   	 following  create a new bootable disk  # $ init/structure=5 NewDisk NewLabel  $ mount/foreign NewDisk 6 $ backup/image/ignore=interlock/verify OldDidk NewDisk   Tom    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 08:10:57 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> 1 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE from ODS-2 to 5 C Message-ID: <1143216657.819366.122570@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Tom Linden wrote: K > I would like to put another drive in a 7.3-1 (will be up graded to 8.2, 3  > also) G > and create a duplicate of the system disk on the new one, so will the  > following  > create a new bootable disk > % > $ init/structure=5 NewDisk NewLabel  > $ mount/foreign NewDisk 8 > $ backup/image/ignore=interlock/verify OldDidk NewDisk >  > Tom   E You need to specify "/NoInit" on the backup/image command or else you G will get the exact same structure and init values that Olddisk has.  If F you're wanting a bootable system disk you probably should also specifyG /system /share and I usually like to throw in /limit and /headers=50000 F (just to keep indexf.sys contigous - there are about 20k files in V8.2% so this gives me plenty of headroom).    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 06:14:56 -0800 From: arobinson@hspg.com3 Subject: Creating Multiple TCP Printing Processors. C Message-ID: <1143209696.605565.203110@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi,    Please help if you can.   0 I have 3 different types of TCP printer queues :  ' 1. Legacy Dotmatix via Terminal Servers ; 2. Legacy Dotmatrix via external network cards (Jetdirects)  3. Laser Printers   9 All of these queues require different formfeed settings :   > The first queue needs : TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS = 1G where as the last queue type needs : TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS  = 35< & I know that the middle sort needs another setting (not yet determined)   A Reading the book it says about using different printer dameons or # logicals - But the question is how?   @ I have done the formsfeed logical jobbie to start x queues, thenB redefined to start y queues, but everytime people stop and restart@ individual queues the logical state is left at default, so chaos ensues.   G How can I have different queues having different suppression rates, but G use TCPIP printing. I can not change the print source, so anything I do   I have to do only to the queues.  > A simpletons guide to solving this problem would be wonderful.   Regards    Andrew Robinson  Stressed and Cynical   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 02:10:05 -0800+ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: F$FAO (!%D)B Message-ID: <1143195005.572850.51070@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: r > In article <1143015711.237025.73360@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> writes: > > That was informative :-) > F > When posting content-free replies using google groups, please choose# > one of the following two options:  > F > 1.  Do not click on reply.  Instead click on the more options button9 >     and click on the reply button on that page instead.  > F >     This will allow you to include context so that we will know what) >     your content-free reply relates to.  > H > 2.  Do not click on reply.  Just go on and read something else without >     publicly saying nothing.   Your a glass !   Dweeb    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 06:18:52 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: F$FAO (!%D)C Message-ID: <1143209932.300624.131710@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   = The !%D FAO directive makes DCL pick up a 64 bit value from a  semi-random stack location. A You can coerce DCL to get a usefull 64 bit value there through an 8 undocumented, unsupported (for DCL) other directive !AD: F$CVUI(32,32,F$FAO(!AD,8,text)) ; This had been published several times before. For examples:   b http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/search?group=comp.os.vms&q=%22%21%25D%22+F%24FAO&qt_g=1   One specific example: C binary_time[ 0,32] = %xA4FE0000       ! low longword of binary date 5 binary_time[32,32] = %x0099D8C4       ! high longword  date_string = -   J f$cvtime(f$fao("!%D",f$cvui(32,32,f$fao("!AD",8,binary_time))),"ABSOLUTE")    D This unsupported technique has survived all major VMS version on VAX and Alpha alike.G I have not had a chance to try it under V8, or Itanium, but I assume it  will continue to work.   hth, Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:40:07 +0100 $ From: p-d-p=pas-de-spam <pas@despam>; Subject: Re: How to use telnet to brows web page within VMS 7 Message-ID: <4423a254$0$18307$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>    r33300@gmail.com a =E9crit : > Hello there! >=20E > We have a regular job running to get some information for internet, H > then we download that web page and extract the data from that download1 > file. Current the job we executed in two steps.  >=20G > 1. Use a web browser to download the web page and save into a pc disk ; > 2. Upload the web page into VMS box the extract the data.  >=20J > I tried use $ telnet /port=3D80 www.webpage.com/ and use GET method try=  G > to get the file, the file displayed on my screen, my question here is E > how can I capture the information into an file so I can extract the  > data from? >=20	 > Thanks.  >=20G Apart from all the good answers previously provided, you can install=20 C Python on Vms (vmspython.dyndns.org) and then use urllib or urllib2  see this doc9 http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml   B and if you want to get some specific info inside this page, use=20 beautifulsoup, see? http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/documentation.html   ! and particularly see the exemples : http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/examples.html  B - Here's how to get the list of piracy incidents out of the ICC=20/ Commercial Crime Services weekly piracy report:   C - One satisfied customer uses a script like this to parse ESPN's=20 + pitch-by-pitch summaries of baseball games: " The script gives output like this:   =2E..  Oakland vs. Tampa Bay:"   Inning 0: Oakland 0, Tampa Bay 0"   Inning 1: Oakland 0, Tampa Bay 0"   Inning 2: Oakland 0, Tampa Bay 0"   Inning 3: Oakland 1, Tampa Bay 0"   Inning 4: Oakland 0, Tampa Bay 0   Inning 5: Oakland 0    Kansas City vs. LA Angels:   Game not started yet.   H - The Weather Office Screen Scraper uses Beautiful Soup to scrape the=20* Canadian government's weather office site.   Have fun   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 06:36:47 -0800 From: pierre.bru@gmail.com  Subject: howto blacklist an IP ?C Message-ID: <1143211007.000974.235060@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>   D is it possible with Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha VersionE V5.3 - ECO 2 to blacklist an IP address, preventing the corresponding  machine to connect ?   TIA, Pierre.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 06:58:34 -0800 From: pierre.bru@gmail.com$ Subject: Re: howto blacklist an IP ?C Message-ID: <1143212314.622344.309440@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ) OK. I found $ UCX SET SECURITY/REJECT=...    Pierre.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:56:43 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) $ Subject: Re: howto blacklist an IP ?( Message-ID: <e01bsr$ela$1@pcls4.std.com>   pierre.bru@gmail.com writes:  * >OK. I found $ UCX SET SECURITY/REJECT=...  ( Do you mean SET COMMUNICATIONS/REJECT= ?  D Problem with that is there is a maximum of 16 nets that can be done.  E If you're trying to block large portions of the network world that is  abusive, a good workaround is:I TCPIP SET ROUTE a.b.c.d /MASK_LENGTH=n/GATEWAY=e.f.g.h, where e.f.g.h is  J an _unused_ address on your local LAN.  That is unlimited.  Use /PERMANENT to make it permanent.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Mar 2006 22:40:31 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> G Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS CIFS announcement - Evaluation kit availability C Message-ID: <1143182431.571352.100100@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    mabbuttg@yahoo.ca wrote:H > Interesting.  What version of Samba is this based on?  If it's version/ > 3, is Active Directory integration supported?   # Again, if you look at the roadmap ( D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm ) youF see it is based on Samba 3.  Samba 4 is projected for 2008-2010.  ThisF may seem a long ways away, but remember, Samba 4 is still pre-alpha so; it may be a while before it's released as production ready.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 06:52:09 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com  Subject: Intel to sell itanium? C Message-ID: <1143211929.571871.301700@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30514    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:17:03 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? C Message-ID: <1143213423.430087.315300@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>   E by the sounds of this article, they better start the alpha production < line back up with EV79 immediately, then hire back the alpha team and start on EV8 now ...    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:27:57 -0800 From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com# Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? C Message-ID: <1143214077.209696.239810@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30514   B Well, The Inquirer is hardly an "unbiased" news source here, BUT IF personally trust it way beyond what is ever said in a press release or even an internal tech meeting.  F That said, this is not the first time in the industry (for Intel it isB at least the fourth) that they swore up and down that a particularB chip/architecture was going to be the future of all computing, allE sorts of business partners "realigned" themselves around it, and then G if slipped, it faltered, and EVENTUALLY corporate reasoning came around B and figured out it was all a crock of shit to begin with. What I'm* surprised at is how few heads have rolled.   Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:55:57 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? ) Message-ID: <op.s6xc7jdbzgicya@hyrrokkin>   C On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:39:09 -0800, Bob Kas <bob@att3b2.com> wrote:   H > 3)  and if you could get a new Alpha Chip out the POWER line will be a > couple/few generations ahead. , Yes, but that is also true of Itanium today.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:39:09 -0500   From: "Bob Kas" <bob@att3b2.com># Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? 0 Message-ID: <12284jpm5l5566c@corp.supernews.com>  -    Jeez  will you give up on this idea ......   5  1)  You'll never get the Alpha People back together.   F 2)  It more then likely doesn't make sense from a financial stanpoint.  G 3)  and if you could get a new Alpha Chip out the POWER line will be a   couple/few generations ahead.     M                                                                                 Rob  ' <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message  = news:1143213423.430087.315300@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... G > by the sounds of this article, they better start the alpha production > > line back up with EV79 immediately, then hire back the alpha > team and start on EV8 now ...  >    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 16:07:11 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? + Message-ID: <48ijpfFjvmipU1@individual.net>   ) In article <op.s6xc7jdbzgicya@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:E > On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:39:09 -0800, Bob Kas <bob@att3b2.com> wrote:  > I >> 3)  and if you could get a new Alpha Chip out the POWER line will be a   >> couple/few generations ahead.. > Yes, but that is also true of Itanium today.  E To be honest, while I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell E of Alpha being revived, who would and would not be ahead of Alpha due E to the development hiatus is probably irrelevant as Alpha never tried D to compete with any of them.  There are things that rely on Alpha orC it's succesor being available.  If its succesor is going away, what E are the options?  Revive Alpha?  Let all those that relied on it die? E Move to what?  All of these are going to cost money.  I guess someone D is going to have to make the decision on which one provides the bestE chance for future profits.  Using past decisions as examples, I would  be very afraid.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:23:22 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? + Message-ID: <e016d3$5an$1@naig.caltech.edu>    shoppa@trailing-edge.com wrote: 5 > What I'm surprised at is how few heads have rolled.   @ Are you kidding?  Thousands and thousands have been fired.  Just/ not those suits who made all the bad decisions.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 08:35:59 -0800 From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com# Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? C Message-ID: <1143218159.386231.269200@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    David Mathog wrote: ! > shoppa@trailing-edge.com wrote: 7 > > What I'm surprised at is how few heads have rolled.  > B > Are you kidding?  Thousands and thousands have been fired.  Just1 > not those suits who made all the bad decisions.   C True: A lot of folks got to drink a lot of Kool-Aid. Many did so on F their own accord but you're right, most because their bosses told them? to drink (hey, they had no choice, all their company's previous F products got axed and they were left with nothing but vaporware/Itanic	 to push.)    Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:21:53 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? ) Message-ID: <op.s6xg6remzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:07:11 -0800, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  + > In article <op.s6xc7jdbzgicya@hyrrokkin>, ( > 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:F >> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:39:09 -0800, Bob Kas <bob@att3b2.com> wrote: >>J >>> 3)  and if you could get a new Alpha Chip out the POWER line will be a! >>> couple/few generations ahead. / >> Yes, but that is also true of Itanium today.  > G > To be honest, while I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell G > of Alpha being revived, who would and would not be ahead of Alpha due G > to the development hiatus is probably irrelevant as Alpha never tried F > to compete with any of them.  There are things that rely on Alpha orE > it's succesor being available.  If its succesor is going away, what G > are the options?  Revive Alpha?  Let all those that relied on it die? G > Move to what?  All of these are going to cost money.  I guess someone F > is going to have to make the decision on which one provides the bestG > chance for future profits.  Using past decisions as examples, I would  > be very afraid.  > J I wasn't suggesting reviving Alpha, for the reason Bob stated.  If ItaniumG is also going away, then the inescapable conclusion is that VMS and its F slower siblings would have to be proted to something else, and those   choices  are obvious and not numerous.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 09:25:28 -0800 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk# Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? B Message-ID: <1143221128.248690.43110@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>  >>>But according to some sources, and it may not come off, a consortium of large Japanese companies is in negotiations to buy the line off Intel. Sanity aside, if this does happen, one has to wonder how much Intel will have to pay to get them to 'buy' this albatross. <<<   D The albatross that was the Hudson Fab. went...  Some people will buy
 anything! ;o)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:28:56 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 8 Subject: Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java?0 Message-ID: <e00hkf$ob$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   Hi Dave  > J > Ok, I don't know, but I'd guess that TCPIP$CFS_SHR and the others you'veD > mentioned are not of the catagory SYSTEM SERVICE.  Plenty of stuffA > that's installed and shared is still basically user mode stuff.   K It's the stuff that's shareable, linkable but most importantly /PROTECT. Go L into INSTALL and do a LIST, then pick one that has these attributes and do aL $Analyze/Image on it. Now some seem to be just lazy C programmers who have a; LIBRTL library header file that they don't need but others?   I If you install a non UWSS shareable with /PROTECT then you can get lovely B errors like SS$_ILLSER and the case of the disappearing processes.   Regards Richard Maher   4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message) news:886dnR3hyoooG7zZRVn-qQ@libcom.com...  > Richard Maher wrote:
 > > Hi Steve,  > > I > > (Thanks for the reply and sorry for taking a while to get back. I was  > > unavoidably distracted.) > >  > > Hoff wrote: -  > > I > >>   This installation requirement is the intended behaviour of OpenVMS  > >>system security. > >  > > G > > Yippee! Any doc reference? (Not necessary, but still nice to have.)  > >  > > : > >>   Calling LIB$ from inner-mode code is not supported, > >  > > D > > Why not? Is that written anywhere? If you do an analyze/image ofJ > > TCPIP$CFS_SHR (for example) it looks like it calls LIBRTL, and LIBOTS, toK > > me. Is that not correct? Is it not a UWSS? I'm not trying to be clever,  I'm ? > > not trying to catch anyone out, I just want the facts! (The  documentation isJ > > *very* out of date and sadly lacking in the first place.) RDB$COSIP isI > > another example. It (like many, many others I'd wager) calls DECC$SHR  and L > > without even looking it up, I'm sure that image in turn calls LIBRTL. So are G > > these products (Rdb and TCP/IP) unsupportable? I've spoken with you  about I > > other cases before, they seem to be all over VMS. What people tell me  are F > > the rules seem to be diametrically opposed to my perception of the reality. > J > Ok, I don't know, but I'd guess that TCPIP$CFS_SHR and the others you'veD > mentioned are not of the catagory SYSTEM SERVICE.  Plenty of stuffA > that's installed and shared is still basically user mode stuff.  > G > After 3 years in the Microsoft world I'm not an authority or anything A > else concerning VMS.  If you think I'm wrong, forgo the lengthy 6 > rebuttal, the last sentence has already said it all. >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:18:17 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 8 Subject: Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java?1 Message-ID: <e00kgt$4jr$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   2 "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote4 > > For more on Richards question from another place > > L http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1007568 > 
 8< snip 8<H > The unpriv cobol image (correctly) doesn't - so if you have a user (orH > supervisor) logical redefining librtl there's a conflict - I think the: > image activator requires images to be uniquely named ...  K Chris, do you have an example or any documentation you can point to to back K this up? It's just that when I run the clarke_kent example below I'm pretty K sure that I witness an anomally. If after running the command file I define J daily_planet (at supervisor mode in the process table) to point to a localJ uninstalled copy of daily_planet.exe then the image activator just ignoresK it. If I do the same thing with LIBRTL then the image activator wants me to # install it. Do you see the problem?   F Now, I've got no idea how the image activator gets activated. (Does itJ bootstrap? or just know how to run itself?) Maybe it has to preload LIBRTLJ into memory so it can run itself? But it certainly behaves differently andD less securely than other sharables. My question is why? Is it a bug?  F The answer appears to be "It's irrelevant. You shouldn't be doing thatG anyway.". Maybe it happens with other shareables? I can't test 'em all.   , Still looks wrong to me. "So What?" I guess.   Regards Richard Maher    $! $ create daily_planet.cob  identification division. program-id.    lois_lane.  data division. working-storage section.L 01  ss$_normal          pic 9(9)        comp    value   external ss$_normal.- 01  sys_status          pic 9(9)        comp.  *  procedure division.  00. +     display "But what'll I tell the chief".      exit program.  *  end program lois_lane. $! $ cob/lis daily_planet.cobD $ link/share=sys$library:daily_planet daily_planet.obj,sys$input/opt   gsmatch=lequal,1,0  % symbol_vector = (lois_lane=procedure)    $!0 $ install replace sys$library:daily_planet/o/h/s( $ purge/log sys$library:daily_planet.exe $! $ create honey_pot.mar  E         .macro define_service,name,narg=0,flags=0,mode=exec,?endmacro   3         'mode'_routine_count='mode'_routine_count+1   1         .call_entry     home_args=false,        - 1                         quad_args=true,         - "                         label=name  #         .save_psect     local_block   #         .psect          'mode'_list            .address        name  $         .psect          'mode'_flags           .long           flags            .restore_psect           .if not_equal narg            cmpb    (ap),#narg           bgeq    endmacro            movzwl  #ss$_insfarg,r0          ret  	 endmacro:   
         .endc 
         .endm   9         .title  Honey_Pot - They all want me in EXEC mode          .ident  "V1.0"  &         .library "sys$library:lib.mlb"           $psldef          $iosbdef         $plvdef          $iodef           kernel_routine_count=0         exec_routine_count=0  A         .psect  exec_list,pic,con,rel,lcl,shr,noexe,rd,nowrt,long  exec_table:   B         .psect  exec_flags,pic,con,rel,lcl,shr,noexe,rd,nowrt,long exec_flags:   C         .psect  kernel_list,pic,con,rel,lcl,shr,noexe,rd,nowrt,long 
 kernel_table:   D         .psect  kernel_flags,pic,con,rel,lcl,shr,noexe,rd,nowrt,long
 kernel_flags:   A         .psect  hpot_data,pic,con,rel,lcl,noshr,noexe,rd,wrt,quad   4 devnam_desc:            .ascid          "sys$output") term_chan:              .word           0 3 iosb:                   .blkb           iosb$s_iosb * my_msg:                 .byte           10I                         .ascii          "Sugar! . . . . ahh, honey honey" *                         .byte           13 sugar_len=.-my_msg1 my_msg_len:             .word           sugar_len ) my_ef:                  .blkl           1   ?         .psect  hpot_code,pic,con,rel,lcl,shr,exe,rd,nowrt,quad            define_service  honey   ! 10$:    tstw            term_chan          bnequ           20$   1         $assign_s       devnam=devnam_desc,     - 1                         chan=term_chan,         - *                         acmode=#psl$c_user         blbs            r0,20$         ret   ) 20$:    $qiow_s         chan=term_chan, - .                         func=#io$_writevblk, -$                         iosb=iosb, -$                         p1=my_msg, -%                         p2=my_msg_len          blbc            r0,900$          movzwl          iosb,r0          blbc            r0,900$   &         calls           #0,g^lois_lane           pushal          my_ef '         calls           #1,g^lib$get_ef          blbc            r0,900$   &         movzwl          #ss$_normal,r0   900$:   ret   
 krnl_rundown:   @         .jsb_entry                      ; Entry point for Kernel9                                         ; rundown handler  99$:    rsb   
 exec_rundown:   C         .jsb_entry                      ; Entry point for Executive 9                                         ; rundown handler !         tstw            term_chan          beql            10$ &         $dassgn_s       chan=term_chan   10$:    rsb   
         .PAGE )         .SBTTL  Privileged Library Vector   6         .psect  dickie$services,page,vec,pic,nowrt,exe  @         .long    plv$c_typ_cmod          ; Set type of vector toA                                          ; change mode dispatcher          .long    0D         .long    kernel_routine_count    ; # of Kernel mode routinesG         .long    exec_routine_count      ; # of Executive mode routines >         .address kernel_table            ; Kernel routine list<         .address exec_table              ; Exec routine listA         .address krnl_rundown            ; Kernel rundown handler A         .address exec_rundown            ; Exec   rundown handler 9         .long    0                       ; RMS Dispatcher ?         .address kernel_flags            ; Kernel routine flags ?         .address exec_flags              ; Exec   routine flags            .end $!G $ macro/list/enable=quad/preserve=(granularity,atomicity) honey_pot.mar  $!- $ link  /share=sys$library:honey_pot        - -         /sysexe                             - -         /notrace                            - -         /section_binding                    - -         honey_pot.obj,                      -          sys$input:/options   gsmatch=lequal,1,0  ! symbol_vector = (honey=procedure)    sys$share:daily_planet/share   $!2 $ install replace sys$library:honey_pot/o/h/s/prot% $ purge/log sys$library:honey_pot.exe  $! $create clarke_kent.cob  identification division. program-id.    clark_kent. data division. working-storage section.L 01  ss$_normal          pic 9(9)        comp    value   external ss$_normal.- 01  sys_status          pic 9(9)        comp.  * - 01  my_flag             pic 9(9)        comp.  procedure division.  00.      display "Before Lois".'     call "lois_lane" giving sys_status. A     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  sys_status.        display "Before honey"#     call "honey" giving sys_status. A     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  sys_status.        display "Before get_ef".6     call "lib$get_ef" using my_flag giving sys_status.A     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  sys_status. 
     stop run.  *  end program clark_kent.  $! $ cob/lis clarke_kent % $ link clarke_kent.obj, sys$input/opt     sys$share:daily_planet.exe/share sys$share:honey_pot.exe/share    $!  = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message . news:dvs0qt$p3h$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > Ian Miller wrote: G > > "PS. Is it just me or has there been nothing but fruitful, on-topic 
 > > technical D > > discussion in COV for over two weeks? Is there nothing sacred? " > > ' > > - parhaps someones on Holiday ? :-)  > > 4 > > For more on Richards question from another place > > L http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1007568 > ; > This appears to be a UWSS (using lib$get_ef from librtl), J > being called by a user cobol application which also uses lib$get_ef from	 > librtl. J > The UWSS (correctly) ignores outer mode logicals, and requires librtl be > installed.H > The unpriv cobol image (correctly) doesn't - so if you have a user (orH > supervisor) logical redefining librtl there's a conflict - I think the: > image activator requires images to be uniquely named ... >  > Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:54:23 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>8 Subject: Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java?4 Message-ID: <e0116v$i6a$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Richard Maher wrote: > Hi,  > 4 > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote4 >>> For more on Richards question from another place >>> N > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1007568 > 8< snip 8<I >> The unpriv cobol image (correctly) doesn't - so if you have a user (or I >> supervisor) logical redefining librtl there's a conflict - I think the ; >> image activator requires images to be uniquely named ...  > M > Chris, do you have an example or any documentation you can point to to back    No.   M > this up? It's just that when I run the clarke_kent example below I'm pretty M > sure that I witness an anomally. If after running the command file I define L > daily_planet (at supervisor mode in the process table) to point to a localL > uninstalled copy of daily_planet.exe then the image activator just ignoresM > it. If I do the same thing with LIBRTL then the image activator wants me to % > install it. Do you see the problem?     Don't use Cobol myself any more.4 But what shareable images does a Cobol program use ?  F Normally, if I write an unprivileged program to use a shareable image I FRED, and define a logical FRED (user or super) to tell the system where  F to find it, the system will use it. No problem. I think (hope) that's  the case for LIBRTL too.  H Privileged images and UWSS must always be "trusted" - which in practice F means they must be installed by someone privileged to do so. Anything G they call must also be "trusted" - a reasonable requirement to prevent  ? security loopholes - I'm sure it's documented somewhere in the   privileged programming manuals.   D The problem arises if program MYUNPRIV uses SHARE1, and MYUWSS uses C SHARE1 too. If you want to redefine SHARE1 in those circumstances,  A MYUWSS requires that it be redefined with an EXEC or KERNEL mode  H logical, pointing to another installed image. Outer mode (USER & SUPER) I logicals will be ignored, or uninstalled images will be complained about.   G So - $IMGACT is called to activate MYUNPRIV. It maps it, and reads the  F list of required images. SHARE1 is first on the list, so it maps that F (accepting your supervisor mode logical telling it which SHARE1), and  anything it needs.I Second is MYUWSS, so it maps that too. It needs SHARE1, which is already  G mapped, but through an untrusted logical. At this point, it would have  
 to do one of: F 1) Map a second (different) copy of SHARE1, and be sure that everyone  called the right copy 0 2) Replace the original with the "trusted" copy.H 3) Create a security hole by allowing privileged code to call untrusted  code. > 4) Report an error - image conflict trying to activate MYUWSS.  H If the images were activated MYUWSS first, things might go better - but ( you wouldn't get the image you expected.H None of these options are ideal - all could lead to anomalous behaviour.   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:38:26 -0600 - From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca>  Subject: Newbie guide?+ Message-ID: <4424207b$1@news.accesscomm.ca>   M I'm just entering the realm of being a VAX hobbyist.  I've installed OpenBSD  K on a VAXstation 4000/60 and now want to make an OpenVMS cluster with a VAX  K 4000/100 and a VAXstation 3100 (exact model number TBA).  The 4000 has 128  F MB of RAM so it is a good machine.  The 3100 probably has 16 or 32 MB.  K I have my hobbyist licenses and I even got an original OpenVMS 7.3 CD from  M Montagar because the old CD-ROM drives don't always like burned media... and    I wanted to support the program.  K But... I feel lost.  I know how to make a reasonably secure and functional  M *nix system.  I want to do the same with OpenVMS.  I want to give users from  H our local open source club access to these machines, but I want to keep M reasonable security.  (I trust them not to create spambots and such; I don't   need that much security.)   D Where is a good place to start to learn how to be a hobbyist system L administrator with OpenVMS?  I used VMS in the mid-1980s at university, but D only as a user, not an administrator, and I've forgotten most of it.   Jim    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Mar 2006 23:09:52 -0800) From: "William" <william.bader@gmail.com> " Subject: Re: old uVAX needs a homeC Message-ID: <1143184192.875729.315660@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>   A I hope that the picture on the web page clarifies the uVAX model. C Each uVAX has a licensed copy of VMS, I think V4.7.  I haven't used C them for over 10 years, although other people at the office used to  boot them occasionally. @ If it is legal to transfer and doesn't cost us anything, the VMSF license is included.  Also, at least one and maybe both have VAX C and VAX FORTRAN. William    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:36:37 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Advanced Server: Just Ask The Vendor!3 Message-ID: <07L$aXFoihRQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <442373E4.BD89312E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > D Gillbilly wrote:. >> Do you want it to run on reliable hardware? >>   [ ] Yes >>   [ ] No  >>  % >> Do you want hardware independence?  >>   [ ] Yes >>   [ ] No  > 5 >> Do you think that you can buy such a device today?  >>   [x] Yes > B > Only if you are willing to run VAX VMS on 8086 boxes witrh a VAXE > emulator.  For VMS to fit your list of requirements, its owner must ( > firts port it to the 64 8086 platform.  @ How would being supported only on HP-branded 8086-plus platforms/ meet the criterion of "hardware independence" ?   C My feeling is that the lack of support on J. Random Box contributes  to the reliability of VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:09:38 GMT + From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> F Subject: Re: Opinion: I see my future without VMS and I don't like it.> Message-ID: <6PNUf.58882$H71.16278@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>  H I have a buddy who has been supporting VMS since V2 at one of the big 3 G autos.  At age 52, he was "released" in January.  He knows very little  A Un*x, and nothing about Windows except how to turn it on and run  I Outlook.  He will be lucky to find a job anywhere in the Midwest for 50%   of his last salary.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:31:33 -0500 ' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> F Subject: Re: Opinion: I see my future without VMS and I don't like it.8 Message-ID: <t9p7229me4hfvi9blpnf7qqat1cmi02ga2@4ax.com>   Jack Patteeuw wrote:  I >I have a buddy who has been supporting VMS since V2 at one of the big 3  H >autos.  At age 52, he was "released" in January.  He knows very little B >Un*x, and nothing about Windows except how to turn it on and run J >Outlook.  He will be lucky to find a job anywhere in the Midwest for 50%  >of his last salary.  > Welcome to the club.  I have been developing for or supporting@ VMS since V1.5 in 1978, though not always for the same employer.> At age 60 I was "released" in February.  Even though I do know= Linux and Windows, I was just "released" from a part-time job A that paid less than 50% of my last salary.  It's tough to move to ? a region with better job prospects when your house is paid for. %     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:09:29 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> F Subject: Re: Opinion: I see my future without VMS and I don't like it.: Message-ID: <rrqdnZHpQs0Xcr7ZnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Jack Patteeuw wrote:J > I have a buddy who has been supporting VMS since V2 at one of the big 3 I > autos.  At age 52, he was "released" in January.  He knows very little  C > Un*x, and nothing about Windows except how to turn it on and run  K > Outlook.  He will be lucky to find a job anywhere in the Midwest for 50%   > of his last salary.    Jack,   D Would that be our mutual acquaintance?  The one I asked you to tell 0 "Dragon said Hi" at a DECUS Symposium years ago?   -- Here, there be Dragons!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:17:05 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: OT: More on Carly's Legacy , Message-ID: <4423AAD9.6C16FD29@teksavvy.com>  A Alcatel and Lucent have confirmed they are in talks for a merger.   G Lucent never quite recovered from Carly's helm during .com frienzie, so & it is now seeking a healthier partner.  H Alcatel may not be well known in the USA, but it is its chips run almost- all of the ADSL modems used in north america.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:41:19 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: OT:HUMOR VMS Just Add Power Campaign 3 Message-ID: <x8FILP4R7OfI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1143123392.403056.228870@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes:G > HP Secure Server is a complete turn-key packaged system that provides @ > e-mail services, integrated virus scanning, and junk filtering > features, all in one box.  >   > http://www.trysecureserver.com      Good stuff.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:43:41 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ) Subject: Reading COMP.OS.VMS with browser ) Message-ID: <op.s6xh63pgzgicya@hyrrokkin>   = Have been using Opera for about 8 years first on Alpha NT but A now on W2K for a number of years.  Upgraded today from 7. to 8.53 G and discovered some untoward changes.  Messages from all the newsgroups D to which I subscribed are now aggregated in same (UNREAD) window andH this is unacceptable.  Under prior version you selected the newsgroup toD read.  Now it could be that i haven't found the right formula, but I don't think so.   0 Any recommendation for a browser for newsreader?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:15:19 -0000 ' From: "Roger Fraser" <rfraser3@csc.com> 9 Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - but this is more useless 1 Message-ID: <4423d32e$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>   7 "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> wrote in message  = news:1143195153.000525.163050@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  >$ pipe logout/brief > nl: >  $ spawn logout       Rog    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 03:45:35 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> 9 Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - but this is more useless A Message-ID: <1143200735.295013.7030@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    > $ spawn logout   I like this even better:   $ pipe spawn logout    or alternatively,    $ spawn pipe logout   C Actually if you want to get elaborate, consider something along the  grammatical lines of   $ (SPAWN|PIPE)+ logout   :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 02:12:33 -0800+ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> ) Subject: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout C Message-ID: <1143195153.000525.163050@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    $ pipe logout/brief > nl:    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:16:18 +0100  From: rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout 4 Message-ID: <4423c6f2$0$27297$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Dr. Dweeb a crit :  > $ pipe logout/brief > nl:  >  $ stop/id=0    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 02:28:41 -0800+ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout C Message-ID: <1143196121.806249.231020@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   A If it is a sub-process, an -E- will go back upstairs, potentially . causing havoc.  Not an alternative I am sorry.   Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:51:27 +0100  From: rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout 4 Message-ID: <4423cf30$0$14076$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Dr. Dweeb a crit :  > $ pipe logout/brief > nl:  >  $ pipe logout/brief > nl: 5    REJOC        logged out at 24-MAR-2006 11:45:14.58   E Dont' see the difference with $ logout/brief ... What do you mean by  	 "quiet" ?    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 03:17:38 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout C Message-ID: <1143199058.050297.127430@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   7 > If it is a sub-process, an -E- will go back upstairs.   E This looks like a response to the piped logout suggestion rather than  the stop/id.  > If that's the case, maybe this would suppress error messages?:   $ pipe logout >nla0: 2>nla0:  G But stop/id still wins for brevity as it doesn't output a message like:   2 SYSTEM       logged out at 31-Apr-2006 06:28:31.85  G (Yes that date and time are an early April Fools Day bit of fun. If you C guess the significance of the time 06:28:31.85--it's not related to D 31-Apr-2006--I just might reward you two portions, one peach and one! pecan--if Mom's not too busy. ;-)    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 03:25:30 -0800+ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout C Message-ID: <1143199530.389024.113390@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   ?     Last interactive login on Thursday, 23-MAR-2006 15:30:29.68 C     Last non-interactive login on Thursday, 23-MAR-2006 18:05:26.80 -         1 failure since last successful login  $ pipe logout/brief > nl:   ) <Your 'TELNET' connection has terminated>   
 Works for me.    Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:41:34 +0100  From: rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout 4 Message-ID: <4423e8ff$0$21519$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Dr. Dweeb a crit : A >     Last interactive login on Thursday, 23-MAR-2006 15:30:29.68 E >     Last non-interactive login on Thursday, 23-MAR-2006 18:05:26.80 / >         1 failure since last successful login  > $ pipe logout/brief > nl:  > + > <Your 'TELNET' connection has terminated>  >  > Works for me.  >  > Dweeb  > E maybe the telnet connection closes before the message can reach your   emulation ?!" What about a VT on a serial line ?   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 04:57:36 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout C Message-ID: <1143205056.879514.321830@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   : When I was in College, I had a symbol:  barf :== stop/id=0D I'd logout using the "barf" alias.  Nice and quiet.  Once I left theB terminal farm (for you youngun's, that was an area with a bunch ofF Vt100's that students used to access the VAX 11/780), and used that toE logout.  I came back 1/2 hour later, and my seat was still open, even E though there was a line waiting for free terminals - everyone thought ( it was still running the "barf" command!   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:56:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout 3 Message-ID: <qC4V2OlPqdp9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4423c6f2$0$27297$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> writes: > Dr. Dweeb a crit :  >> $ pipe logout/brief > nl: >>  
 > $ stop/id=0      $ eoj    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 06:33:59 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout C Message-ID: <1143210838.945500.299880@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   C Perhaps $ eoj would run [user mode] exit handlers. I seem to recall ' that LOGOUT does but STOP/ID=0 doesn't?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:54:43 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer9 Message-ID: <eYadnZrdCZmlLr7ZnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote:/ > On 23 Mar 2006 at 23:12, Mns Rullgrd wrote:  > F >>I'm not complaining about him selling Alphas.  I'm complaining aboutG >>him posting *spam*.  If I want to buy things I know how to find them.  >  > 9 > So, if I mentioned CHARON-VAX, would that be spam, too?  > " > [Sorry, just couldn't resist...] >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------: > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA > > stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >  >   @ Well, as Steven said, it's repetition.  How many times have you  mentioned it?  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 02:26:45 -0800+ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application DeveloperC Message-ID: <1143196005.822427.275010@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Ja Arne men ...,  D MySql out of the box is not that good actually (at least last time I@ looked).  It needs addons to du proper stuff and is in many ways releatively primitive.   Its redeeming feature is price.   C As for the SPAM, well, SPAM is as I understand it "untargeted", and G there can be little doubt that this was targeted.  I did not read it in  comp.alt.sex.binaries.weenie   :)   Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:59:14 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer9 Message-ID: <jaRUf.7294$qX6.251010@news20.bellglobal.com>   4 "Mns Rullgrd" <mru@inprovide.com> wrote in message. news:yw1x7j6lj98k.fsf@agrajag.inprovide.com... [...snip...]F > Please stop this spamming.  I used to point people looking for Alpha? > hardware in your direction.  I will never do it again.  I can E > understand that basing a business on selling Alpha parts is getting H > increasingly difficult, but this does not give any right whatsoever toH > post spam to Usenet.  One more of these and I'll report you for abuse. >  > --   > Mns Rullgrd  > mru@inprovide.com  >   L 1. Most people would not know about this Book/CD if the vendor wouldn't have2 posted to comp.os.vms so I don't see this as SPAM.  D 2. I have no problem that the post in question went to: comp.os.vms,A comp.sys.dec, de.comp.os.vms, fr.comp.os.vms but maybe posting to , comp.os.linux.alpha was a little overzealous  G 3. OpenVMS is not the most popular OS in the world and any promotion by  anyone is welcome.  D 4. A very rational engineer at HP once told me some folks in OpenVMSI engineering are convinced that the first 4 letters of "comp.os.vms" stand I for COMPLAIN. Attempts to help out usually result in some kind of attack. K (I heard this a couple of years back but now feel the need to pass it on to L the newsgroup because there are a few bad apples who would rather whine than( constructively improve/promote OpenVMS.)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 13:07:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer+ Message-ID: <48i98sFke72cU1@individual.net>   6 In article <44236E2B.67B65B84@neoasrptahmlnionwk.net>,C 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:  > Mns Rullgrd wrote: >>   >> healyzh@aracnet.com writes: >>  . >> > In comp.os.vms <mru@inprovide.com> wrote:K >> >> "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> writes:  >> > >> >> [snip spam]  >> >J >> >> Please stop this spamming.  I used to point people looking for AlphaC >> >> hardware in your direction.  I will never do it again.  I can I >> >> understand that basing a business on selling Alpha parts is getting L >> >> increasingly difficult, but this does not give any right whatsoever toL >> >> post spam to Usenet.  One more of these and I'll report you for abuse. >> >F >> > Good grief.  Calm down, about the only thing David posts for saleF >> > these days are things that are of interest to Hobbyists.  In thisG >> > case he is posting something that is of interest to more than just G >> > hobbyists, and I for one am glad he did.  This book sounds like it B >> > is just the sort of thing that I could really use.  Hopefully+ >> > someone will post a review of it soon.  >>  H >> Makes no difference if it's useful to someone.  It's advertising, andD >> advertising doesn't belong here.  It belongs in the *.marketplace
 >> groups. > < > Is it the cross-posting that's got your undies in a bunch? > I > I'll have to vote with Zane on this one. Get a grip, chill out. We need H > c.o.v. to be a "one stop shopping" source for all things VMS, and thatG > includes books, hardware, software, advice, etc. For some folks - not I > just hobbyists - this and openvms.org are their only source of support.  > G > How many c.o.v.'ers have ever even HEARD of the *.marketplace groups?  > I > ...and since Islandco *IS* the *ONLY* one we soliciting here (on c.o.v. I > at least for VMS related stuff, can't say about c.o.l.a. as I only lurk 8 > there on occasion), I don't see that there's an issue. > C > I suppose next we'll see complaints about Sue posting new product  > announcements from HP... >   H Let it go people.  He's a linux weenie.  I am sure his biggest objection was to it being about VMS.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 13:12:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer+ Message-ID: <48i9hcFke72cU2@individual.net>   / In article <877j6klgi2.fsf@wolfe.cbbrowne.com>, . 	Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org> writes:O > Clinging to sanity, "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> mumbled into her beard:  >> davidc@montagar.com wrote: F >>> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a newL >>> OpenVMS Programmer.  Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together. >>I >> It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90 > >> - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQLG >> applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQL H >> has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) -+ >> whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-)  > B > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on aD > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into theC > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...   E I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest to anyone B when there are (and have been for some time) better choices in the free software world, too.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 14:02:01 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer+ Message-ID: <48icepFkau8bU1@individual.net>   3 In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>  M >> Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-)  >>  H >> Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those C >> even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions".  > ' >    Real programmers do it with BLISS.   G I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11?    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:38:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer3 Message-ID: <VtT75vDcK3$n@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <44238EE4.A0A5337D@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  F > I think the complaints about  the original post were probably raisedH > because that post had gone to newsgroups outside of comp.os.vms and toA > those people, the post was not appropriate for their newsgroup.   ? I complained bitterly some years back when David Turner spammed ? comp.os.vms with offers of PC hardware.  That was off-topic for  _this_ newsgroup.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 07:52:56 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer3 Message-ID: <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > L > Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-) > G > Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those  B > even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions".  %    Real programmers do it with BLISS.    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 14:42:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer+ Message-ID: <48ieq4Fkddi5U2@individual.net>   2 In article <dtTUf.5252$h15.3923@news.cpqcorp.net>,) 	John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:6 >> In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>  f >>>In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>> N >>>>Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-) >>>>I >>>>Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those  D >>>>even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions". >>> ( >>>   Real programmers do it with BLISS. >>   >>  J >> I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11? >>   >> bill  >>   >>   > G > I've asked about having the BLISS-16 kit (OpenVMS VAX hosted, PDP-11  I > target) to be put on the next Freeware CDs.  Are you really interested  % > or just having fun with the thread?   F No, I would be interested.  But I would have been more interested in aG native PDP-11 compiler, which I happen to know never existed.  BLISS on G the PDP-11 was always cross-compiled.  I have never used (or even seen) B BLISS, but I take the word of the people here who say it is a goodH systems programming language and after all the languages I have mastered$ to this point, what's one more.  :-)   > H > The last kit we have is from 1987.  It installed and ran at the time. K > I'm pretty sure that nobody else here has tried to install/use it on any  F > recent OpenVMS VAX versions.  And no, we're not going to rehost the ( > compiler for OpenVMS Alpha or I64. :-)  B Isn't it written in BLISS, itself?  Any chance of the source beingD released?  MIght be enough people interested to actually retarget it$ in a number of different directions.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:35:53 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer2 Message-ID: <dtTUf.5252$h15.3923@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > e >>In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>M >>>Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-)  >>> H >>>Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those C >>>even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions".  >>' >>   Real programmers do it with BLISS.  >  > I > I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11?  >  > bill >    >   E I've asked about having the BLISS-16 kit (OpenVMS VAX hosted, PDP-11  G target) to be put on the next Freeware CDs.  Are you really interested  # or just having fun with the thread?   F The last kit we have is from 1987.  It installed and ran at the time. I I'm pretty sure that nobody else here has tried to install/use it on any  D recent OpenVMS VAX versions.  And no, we're not going to rehost the & compiler for OpenVMS Alpha or I64. :-)   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:57:26 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer8 Message-ID: <6628221kk6k6lft3h102h0r56trcf3fpkj@4ax.com>  > On 24 Mar 2006 05:43:53 -0800, vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote:  @ >Could you be more specific as to freeware alternatives to MySQL >available for VMS ? >TIA   OpenIngres for a start.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:57:47 -0500 - From: "Jim Agnew" <brainwavesurfer@gmail.com> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application DeveloperI Message-ID: <a184d6630603240757v3446ce8ayd5729250039b03d0@mail.gmail.com>   ' ------=_Part_894_28581019.1143215867933 , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   J Postgres is also avail, I think, or it was being ported by someone a while ago.  dunno about now.   Jim   . On 3/24/06, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote: > @ > On 24 Mar 2006 05:43:53 -0800, vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote: > B > >Could you be more specific as to freeware alternatives to MySQL > >available for VMS ? > >TIA >  > OpenIngres for a start.  >  > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur  >   ' ------=_Part_894_28581019.1143215867933 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L Postgres is also avail, I think, or it was being ported by someone a while =L ago.&nbsp; dunno about now.<br><br>Jim<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quo=K te">On 3/24/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Nigel Barker</b> &lt;<a href=  =3D"mailto:nigel@hp.com"> J nigel@hp.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=L =3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p=L adding-left: 1ex;">On 24 Mar 2006 05:43:53 -0800, <a href=3D"mailto:vancouv= ercancun@yahoo.ca"> L vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca</a> wrote:<br><br>&gt;Could you be more specific a=L s to freeware alternatives to MySQL<br>&gt;available for VMS ?<br>&gt;TIA<b=L r><br>OpenIngres for a start.<br><br>--<br>Nigel Barker<br>Live from the su= nny Cote d'Azur  <br></blockquote></div><br>   ) ------=_Part_894_28581019.1143215867933--    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:53:31 -0700 + From: Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer# Message-ID: <4423cfac@mvb.saic.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > e >>In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>M >>>Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-)  >>> H >>>Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those C >>>even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions".  >>' >>   Real programmers do it with BLISS.  >  > I > I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11?   @ The Bliss files at: http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/vmslt97b/pdp11/  C may be of interest to you.  According to the description contained  C therein, this is a cross-compiler that runs on Alpha and generates    PDP-11 Macro code as its output.  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.166 ************************