1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 25 Mar 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 167       Contents:, "Threads are crap in inner-mode!" - Discuss.= Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior" = Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior" = Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior" = Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior" P BLISS environment available [was Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVP Re: Bliss-11 (Was: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Dev Bootable disk copy of CD) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 . Re: Creating Multiple TCP Printing Processors. EFN$C_ENF Chalk or Cheese?( Re: Example using pseudo terminal driver> Re: HP OpenVMS CIFS announcement - Evaluation kit availability Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium? Re: Intel to sell itanium?/ Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java?  Is [000000...] same as [*...] ? # Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ? # Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ? # Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ? # Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ? # Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ? * Just Ask The Vendor: Securing The Endpoint* Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup* Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup* Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup* Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup libxml2 2.6.23 available LWP::Simple crashes on VMSperl Re: Newbie guide? ( Re: OT:HUMOR VMS Just Add Power Campaign$ Re: Reading COMP.OS.VMS with browser0 Re: Stupid DCL tricks - but this is more useless( Re: Stupid DCL tricks - even more silent$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout$ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logoutG Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer  This weeks Boot Camp Update  Who's going to Montreal Seminar # Re: Who's going to Montreal Seminar   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:00:01 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 5 Subject: "Threads are crap in inner-mode!" - Discuss. 0 Message-ID: <e02ini$8e$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   Hi,   J While perusing the source listing for the VMS System Service Dispatcher, II had a serendipitous bump into something called the "inner-mode semaphore" E and I have to say that my initial reaction was one of revulsion.As if L thread-coders don't introduce enough of their own mutex bottlenecks; lurkingI down deep in the guts of an innocent looking RTL, 3.8usecs of (relentless . :-) CPU spin could be unleased on your system.  K Ok, as someone who will only *ever* use ASTs to multithread a process (farm G the work out to seperate processes if needed - I LIKE *VMS*) this issue H isn't really of much interest to me. But I am curious to know if it doesG affect the scalability of applications that are both multi-threaded and   inner-mode active. Any thoughts?  H I was of the opinion that the main appeal of threads was that everythingE could be inlined. Being blocked and waited was no big deal 'cos other D threads could keep going. No ASTs no asynchronous versions of SystemL Services calls, "just wait it" but if it's an exec mode lock then aren't youH holding the semaphore at exec mode? Does Wait_Callers_Mode come in here?   Regards Richard Maher   K PS. To be fair, it looks like only the first waiter will spin and after the J 3.8usecs (is that significant in CPU terms?) the thread sleeps but hey, if it happens enough.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:32:46 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> F Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior"+ Message-ID: <48j0gqFismv8U1@individual.net>   * On 2006-03-24 18:17, "Hoff Hoffman" wrote:  n > In article <fxNUf.58880$H71.21373@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> writes:, > :If you have a Protected Subsystem ACE ...4 > :...input stream to BACKUP, you need to know that K > :this SUBSYSTEM ACE is silently deleted from files created by the output  I > :stream, regardless of what privileges the account running BACKUP has.  D > :Yes, even when logged in as SYSTEM with SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=ALL > : ; > :According to VMS Engineering this is "intended behavior"  >  > I >   This prohibition is intended to prevent an untrusted user from adding H >   a subsystem identifier onto an image.  The intent is to ensure that I >   the user adding the subsystem identifier possesses it, and users that > >   do not have the identifier cannot create an image with it.  G Wouldn't it be more reasonable to allow "full" backups (i.e., including E "protected subsystem" related issues) for all users possessing either G the SECURITY or BYPASS privilege? I suppose users granted such elevated 0 privileges are considered being "trusted users".   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:22:18 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) F Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior"2 Message-ID: <_xYUf.5295$Ua5.2270@news.cpqcorp.net>  a In article <48j0gqFismv8U1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes: H :Wouldn't it be more reasonable to allow "full" backups (i.e., includingF :"protected subsystem" related issues) for all users possessing eitherH :the SECURITY or BYPASS privilege? I suppose users granted such elevated1 :privileges are considered being "trusted users".   G   What's implemented now with subsystem identifiers presently parallels F   how INSTALL and BACKUP operate -- BACKUP doesn't propogate along the0   image privileges or image settings, of course.  G   What you posit is likely feasible, but it's rather more work for each G   of the ACE operations involved, and there can be a whole lot of those H   that arise underneath the typical BACKUP operation.  The code involvedG   here would likely also have to look at the target disk (to see if the C   subsystem identifiers are enabled on the device), which makes the B   requirements yet more interesting -- and if we were to cache theA   information somewhere, we'd tend to have to manage it when the  E   security settings on the target change "in flight".   Stripping the #   identifier is safe and effective.   J   And all for what end, of course?  The intent of the subsystem identifierI   was to parallel INSTALL and /PRIVILEGE, and to reduce the risks and the I   exposures that an image installed with privileges can be involved with.   G   Off-hand, I'm not certain if the identifier is stripped when the file H   is read, or when it is written.  I'd assume the former, but BACKUP hasH   certainly provided me with its share of surprises.  It might then makeK   sense to allow users a way to receive an informational message indicating K   the subsystem identifier was stripped, but again -- to what end?  Is this %   just going to be a "noise" message?   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 14:51:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) F Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior"3 Message-ID: <0LpHmFzcR8YK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <48j0gqFismv8U1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:   I > Wouldn't it be more reasonable to allow "full" backups (i.e., including G > "protected subsystem" related issues) for all users possessing either I > the SECURITY or BYPASS privilege? I suppose users granted such elevated 2 > privileges are considered being "trusted users".  K Trusted to have good intentions, but not trusted to understand the security I nuances of what they are doing.  Consider how many posters would not mind I if the default were to copy the trust relationship by default if the user  is privileged.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 01:45:32 GMT + From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> F Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs  ... "intended behavior"> Message-ID: <0h1Vf.59013$H71.54868@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: G  > In article <fxNUf.58880$H71.21373@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, Jack  ( Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> writes:-  > :If you have a Protected Subsystem ACE ... 4  > :...input stream to BACKUP, you need to know thatK  > :this SUBSYSTEM ACE is silently deleted from files created by the output I  > :stream, regardless of what privileges the account running BACKUP has. E  > :Yes, even when logged in as SYSTEM with SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=ALL   > :<  > :According to VMS Engineering this is "intended behavior"  >  >J  >   This prohibition is intended to prevent an untrusted user from addingH  >   a subsystem identifier onto an image.  The intent is to ensure thatJ  >   the user adding the subsystem identifier possesses it, and users that?  >   do not have the identifier cannot create an image with it.   >    , Yes, this was the justification given to me.  G However, any one logged in as SYSTEM, or who has BYPASS privilege, had  F better be "trusted", because they can certainly wreck havoc with just 5 about everything else except the PROTECTED SUBSYSTEM.   @ The work around is, while logged in as SYSTEM, grant SYSTEM the A Identifier associated with the SUBSYSTEM.  Oh, that really stops   untrusted SYSTEM users, huh !   I But this workaround is flawed also !!  What if there is no SYSUAF.DAT or  I RIGHTSLIST.DAT available because I am booted from the CD-ROM ?  Now I am  F back to keeping a hardcopy list in a safe place so that I can fix the G ACEs for these critical application files after I get the system fully   running.  ? All you have succeeded in doing is making more work the system   administrator.  J Finally, how about revising this statement in the Guide to System Security  8      The BYPASS privilege allows the user's process full7      access to all protected objects, totally bypassing 4      UIC-based protection, access control list (ACL)8      protection, and mandatory access controls. With the8      BYPASS privilege, a process has unlimited access to      the system.  ! because it is no longer accurate.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 16:22:24 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> Y Subject: BLISS environment available [was Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenV 1 Message-ID: <mddr74rler3.fsf_-_@panix5.panix.com>   * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  5 > In article <ZM6lpBYSGai2@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  J >>    Source for a BLISS-16 compiler is publically available, I think it'sE >>    on the VMS Freeware.  You'll need a PDP-10 to run it.  You can  H >>    probably use SIMH for the latter.  You'll need BLISS-10 (or maybe L >>    BLISS-36) to compile it.  BLISS-10 used to be on the TOPS-20 freeware  >>    tapes.  J > Yeah, but setting up a simulator, seting up a simulation of a PDP-10 andM > installing and running TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 (whichever one it actually takes) I > just to compile code for a PDP-11 sure seems like an awful lot of extra  > work.   O There's also the possibility of working on real hardware administered by a real M professional Tops-20 sysadmin.  The Toad-1 at PDPplanet has both BLISS-10 and * BLISS-36 available, and accounts are free.  ? It would be great to see someone doing real work on the system.    [snip]  J > I was already aware of both of these, I was actually being just a littleG > sarcastic.  Although I have to admit that the new discussion has made H > me interested enough in BLISS to take a look at the source with an eye > at porting possibilities.   % There's a place to start if you want.   J >>    Maybe you'll port the free source to Common BLISS so it will compile" >>    under VMS as well as itself?  I > What is Common BLISS?  Isn't it bad enough that I already know there is J > BLISS-11, BLISS-16 and BLISS-64 and I have been led to believe that none. > of them are compatable at the source level!!  ' And BLISS-32 and BLISS-10 and BLISS-36.   L A bit of history:  I used to work for XKL, the manufacturer of the Toad-1, aM PDP-10 clone that implements the full architecture specification (that is, it M is a superset of the KL-10 processor from DEC).  Part of my job was to be the ; liaison with Digital for transfer of the 36-bit technology.   K In that time frame, about 10 years ago, Digital announced that BLISS-32 and M BLISS-16 were changing status, from very pricy to free to anyone with a valid O VMS license.  I got in touch with my contact at Digital and pointed out that if L those were becoming free, then BLISS-36 should be, too.  He agreed, and madeL the appropriate things happen within Digital so that we got BLISS-36 in time for first customer ship.  K (BLISS-10 and BLISS-11, on the other hand, had always been free, since they  were not written at DEC.)   O Anyway, if you're interested, drop by PDPplanet.org and sign up for an account.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:57:53 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Bliss-11 (Was: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Dev / Message-ID: <g-udnbCda4mbPrnZRVn-vA@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:4 > In article <EDTUf.5253$v15.1795@news.cpqcorp.net>,< > 	John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>6 >>>In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >>>	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>> ( >>>>  Real programmers do it with BLISS. >>> J >>>I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11? >>K >>Here is a alleged to be a cross compiler that you can run on a simulated  	 >>PDP-10.  >>9 >>http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/TOOL/BLISS11-1.html  >>% >>ftp://iecc.com/pub/file/bliss.tar.Z  >> >  > C > Yes, but setting up and learning to admin as well as use a PDP-10 A > is an awful lot of work to get a compiler for a language I have D > never used.  :-)  I think I'll wait and see if the VMS one becomes > available. >  > billF > (who doesn't much care for emulated VAX or PDP-11 systems, much less
 >  a PDP-10!)  >   F I haven't yet used SIMH, but if I ever do, it would be to emulate the / PDP-10, one of the first computers I ever used.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:18:12 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: Bootable disk copy of CD ) Message-ID: <op.s6x28mh3zgicya@hyrrokkin>   < I would like to upgrade a node, which doesn't have a workingB CD, but does have a spare disk.  So what should be the command theI backup from the CD on another node to this drive such that I can boot off H it?  All the devices are visible across the cluster.  Will following do?  9 $ mount/foreign cd:  or should it be $ mount cd: alpha082  $ mount/foreign drive:% $ backup/image/block=2048 cd:  drive:    then >>> boot cd    Tom    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 22:16:11 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5, Message-ID: <44246fab$1@news.langstoeger.at>  N In article <ops6w9yhnqzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:P >I would like to put another drive in a 7.3-1 (will be up graded to 8.2, 3 also)P >and create a duplicate of the system disk on the new one, so will the following >create a new bootable disk  > $ >$ init/structure=5 NewDisk NewLabel >$ mount/foreign NewDisk7 >$ backup/image/ignore=interlock/verify OldDidk NewDisk   - You need BACKUP/NOINIT or else it won't help.   * But, do you know SET VOLUME/STRUCT=5 disk?  E I think I remember that it requires the disk privately mounted, which C is a problem with the system disk. So, for changing the system disk ? boot from CD, spawn a DCL (IIRC, menu 8) mount your system disk D (nonshadowed of course) and change it to ODS5 (and consider enabling# hardlinks, too, while you're there)   ? No need to BACKUP (except for a clean contigous disk of course)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:32:20 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 52 Message-ID: <EzZUf.5307$Dd5.1805@news.cpqcorp.net>  N In article <ops6w9yhnqzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:L :I would like to put another drive in a 7.3-1 (will be up graded to 8.2, 3  N :also) and create a duplicate of the system disk on the new one, so will the  % :following create a new bootable disk  : $ :$ init/structure=5 NewDisk NewLabel :$ mount/foreign NewDisk7 :$ backup/image/ignore=interlock/verify OldDidk NewDisk   C   Assuming you want the potential for corrupted output, do continue C   to use /ignore=interlock -- realize the interlocks that are being 8   ignored here were implemented for a reason, after all.  D   The /ignore=interlock is tantamount to /allow=data_corruptions; it2   is just not a reliable on-line BACKUP mechanism.  F   Realize that /ignore=interlock may or may not report the corruptions   and the collisions.   C   I would tend to boot from the distro disk or from another system  =   disk, and would then use something similar to the sequence:   9     $ initialize/headers=nnnn/limit=nnnn newdisk newlabel      $ mount olddisk/over=id      $ mount newdisk/foreign /     $ backup olddisk newdisk/IMAGE/NOINITIALIZE $     $ set volume/structure=5 newdisk  F   Use of /limit and the dynamic volume expansion and dissimilar deviceE   shadowing support is restricted to V7.3-2 and later, however.  You  C   can turn it on after you upgrade to V7.3-2, of course.  Use of a  B   sufficient /headers value can be a big deal, particularly if you,   are going to a larger disk in the process.  =   Do also remember to load the mandatory ECO kits, of course.   B   If the box is clustered and you will be swapping this new systemA   disk around, make SURE your VOTES and EXPECTED_VOTES values are ,   set to the documented and required values.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:01:13 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5) Message-ID: <op.s6xt4bnazgicya@hyrrokkin>   ? On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:16:11 -0800, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER    <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:   J > In article <ops6w9yhnqzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  	 > writes: L >> I would like to put another drive in a 7.3-1 (will be up graded to 8.2,  
 >> 3 also)J >> and create a duplicate of the system disk on the new one, so will the   >> following >> create a new bootable disk  >>& >> $ init/structure=5 NewDisk NewLabel >> $ mount/foreign NewDisk9 >> $ backup/image/ignore=interlock/verify OldDidk NewDisk  > / > You need BACKUP/NOINIT or else it won't help.  > , > But, do you know SET VOLUME/STRUCT=5 disk? > G > I think I remember that it requires the disk privately mounted, which E > is a problem with the system disk. So, for changing the system disk A > boot from CD, spawn a DCL (IIRC, menu 8) mount your system disk F > (nonshadowed of course) and change it to ODS5 (and consider enabling% > hardlinks, too, while you're there)  > A > No need to BACKUP (except for a clean contigous disk of course)   G I have 4 XP1000's which come with IDE Toshiba CD's and every single one J has failed I have replaced three of them with Sony, Liteon and Plextor andE this guy is not one of them.  So I was trying to find a means without I stealing organs out of another.  I guess I am not the first to report the " miserable quality of those drives. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:55:31 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5, Message-ID: <44246ACB.737906F5@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: E >   Assuming you want the potential for corrupted output, do continue E >   to use /ignore=interlock -- realize the interlocks that are being : >   ignored here were implemented for a reason, after all.  D Question: if the system is in a quiet period and no writes are beingD performed while backup is running, what circumstances would yield to corruption of files ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:59:31 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5) Message-ID: <op.s6xwth06zgicya@hyrrokkin>   . On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:55:31 -0800, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Hoff Hoffman wrote: F >>   Assuming you want the potential for corrupted output, do continueF >>   to use /ignore=interlock -- realize the interlocks that are being; >>   ignored here were implemented for a reason, after all.  > F > Question: if the system is in a quiet period and no writes are beingF > performed while backup is running, what circumstances would yield to > corruption of files ?   + Well, I can confirm that it was successful.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:12:28 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 52 Message-ID: <w1%Uf.5310$Sd5.1136@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <44246ACB.737906F5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  E :Question: if the system is in a quiet period and no writes are being E :performed while backup is running, what circumstances would yield to  :corruption of files ?  	   None.     H   Now go get your system and your applications into said fully quiescent   state, and call me back.  F   This isn't any easy problem to manage outside of the most trivial ofE   cases (or outside of cases where you are willing to fall back to an G   earlier point and reload and restart), short of requiring cooperation G   with the running applications. (That's been discussed before, too, as I   it's also a component of other mechanisms -- such as checkpoint-restart H   and of process migration.)  With this hypothetical cooperation betweenF   the applications and the operating system, this file synchronizationC   and this data and cache consistency gets rather easier to manage.   F   In the current environment, if the application has a multi-part fileG   update in flight or has some data cached in memory, all bets are off. C   (The operating system does not know when the application has data G   cached and does not -- outside of applications using DTM -- know when 7   multipart I/O transactions are in flight, of course.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:21:15 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 52 Message-ID: <L9%Uf.5311$Ff5.1261@news.cpqcorp.net>  O In article <op.s6xwth06zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: A :Well, I can confirm that it [the on-line BACKUP] was successful.   J   Congratulations on your successful data transfer and data verification.   G   Me?  I use the documented and recommended means, and I do not use the I   backup/ignore=interlock lightly -- I've recovered system disks and data G   (application) disks where the system manager had used this qualifier,    and had gotten caught out.  J   It's easy to implement a "usually works" backup, and y'all expect better=   of OpenVMS.  That's why I regularly flag /ignore=interlock.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:28:34 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5) Message-ID: <op.s6x0xwjezgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:21:15 -0800, Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:  K > In article <op.s6xwth06zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   	 > writes: C > :Well, I can confirm that it [the on-line BACKUP] was successful.  > K >   Congratulations on your successful data transfer and data verification.  > I >   Me?  I use the documented and recommended means, and I do not use the K >   backup/ignore=interlock lightly -- I've recovered system disks and data I >   (application) disks where the system manager had used this qualifier,  >   and had gotten caught out. > G >   It's easy to implement a "usually works" backup, and y'all expect    > better? >   of OpenVMS.  That's why I regularly flag /ignore=interlock.  > 4 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>   > ----------------------------- 5 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --    > www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq 6 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion   > --------------------------- I >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com  > K I wasn't gloating or suggesting that this was a procedure to be followed,    in my G case as I explained it was worth the experiment, and if didn't work I    could alwaysJ fall back on the documented approach.  I was able to disconnect from the   net I (pulled the ethernet off the router) and noone else was on the system.     Did, of course,  get plenty of warnings.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:38:30 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 50 Message-ID: <2ridnTzmcd2KArnZRVn-qQ@comcast.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:   Q > In article <op.s6xwth06zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: C > :Well, I can confirm that it [the on-line BACKUP] was successful.  > L >   Congratulations on your successful data transfer and data verification.  > I >   Me?  I use the documented and recommended means, and I do not use the K >   backup/ignore=interlock lightly -- I've recovered system disks and data I >   (application) disks where the system manager had used this qualifier,  >   and had gotten caught out. > L >   It's easy to implement a "usually works" backup, and y'all expect better? >   of OpenVMS.  That's why I regularly flag /ignore=interlock.  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------I >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com  >       C What DO you do when you can't do a standalone backup and don't use  G /IGNORE=INTERLOCK?  There are files on the system disk that are always  D open and some are files you would not want to lose.  I thought that I /IGNORE=INTERLOCK was a "best effort" that usually worked OK.  I did all  F my backups that way for years and never had a problem the few times I  needed to restore.  E There are systems that are supposed to run 24x7.  How should they be  I backed up?  Solaris has something called "fssnap" that supposedly solves   this problem. . . .    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:38:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Creating Multiple TCP Printing Processors. , Message-ID: <442458BE.2006C87F@teksavvy.com>   arobinson@hspg.com wrote: I > How can I have different queues having different suppression rates, but I > use TCPIP printing. I can not change the print source, so anything I do " > I have to do only to the queues.  : This is just an IDEA, I have no idea if it actually works.  G **IF** INIT/QUEUE/PROCESSOR=XXX/OWNER_UIC=JDOE  means that the symbiont B will run under the JDOE account , then you could do the following:  D Create 3 account in 3 different UIC groups. Define the various queueD specific logicals in each group's logical name table. This way, eachC symbiont will see its own group logicals and not be affected by the   logicals of the other symbionts.   You also want to have:  D $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$TELNETSYM_STREAMS 1  so that each symbiont only tries to handle one queue.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:29:10 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> # Subject: EFN$C_ENF Chalk or Cheese? 1 Message-ID: <e02gtr$r4a$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,    How does EFN$C_ENF work?  C My guess is it fires whenever *any* of the 128 event flags are set. J (Otherwise it would be just too clever for words and something to be wearyH of. Like yeast or pool-cleaners/creepy-crawlies!) But you'll never get a false negative so it is robust.   F Now, if I do a $synch with efn$c_enf and my_iosb then CPU (and perhapsK paging) will be burned every time any event flag is set in the process? But J if I took the default event flag zero then there would now be conflict andK (judging by the docs) a spurious clear can lead to an erroneous wait state. H So, for my money we should all be using LIB$GET_EF whenever and whereverI possible. Or is the miniscule amount of resource wastage (especially in a L single-threaded application) not woth worrying about. Use efn$c_enf, protect# your iosb/lksb and you're laughing.    Or none of the above?    Regards Richard Maher    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 16:31:18 -0800" From: "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org>1 Subject: Re: Example using pseudo terminal driver B Message-ID: <1143246678.072912.37170@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > E > I wonder if DTM can be used in combination with other strategies to H > provide the long sought-after automation capability for such things as > SET HOST/DUP...  >     G Yes and no. I 've written a kind of FTP wrapper using pseudo terminals. G FTP communicates using lines, i.e. a string of ascii followed by CR/LF.   B I gave up playing with such a wrapper for a telnet session, mainly because E telnet ( or set host/...) is more character based, and I couldn't get  the middle of readC and end of read ast fire at the middle or end of the read reliably. D They seemed sometimes to lag behind the actual characters coming in.  > Probably I did something wrong, but it wasn't straightforward.   Jose   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 14:49:26 -0800- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> G Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS CIFS announcement - Evaluation kit availability C Message-ID: <1143240566.518948.116710@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>   
 Sue wrote:F > We are pleased to announce the availability of the HP OpenVMS CommonC > Internet File System (CIFS) IA64 "evaluation" kit. The HP OpenVMS F > Common Internet File System (CIFS) provides users with seamless fileG > and print interoperability between OpenVMS and Windows-based clients. D > The OpenVMS file and print services evaluation kit is based on theI > Samba.org Open Source/Free Software suite which provides file and print D > services to SMB/CIFS clients. The kit has been developed to run onI > OpenVMS Itanium platforms. It is similar to implementations that are in B > place today supporting Linux and UNIX operating environments. An8 > "Alpha" evaluation kit will follow in the near future.I > For download access to the OpenVMS Itanium evaluation kit and access to E > current CIFS information please utilize our CIFS home page found at 9 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html .    A quote from this webpage: ##; This up-to-date Samba offering on OpenVMS provides numerous D industry-standard features that the Advanced Server product does not offer today. ##  & Where can I read about these features?  E I have Alpha/Advanced Server customers who would have already gone to / IA64 but for the lack of this interoperability.    > For direct7 > access to the evaluation kit download please refer to I > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/cifs_register.html. You will be asked G > to register for this free evaluation kit. Please note that this is an D > evaluation kit and not meant for "production" implementations. ForI > information on the availability of "production" versions of CIFS please ) > refer to the OpenVMS road maps found at B > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm .  G Sorry, my 17" monitor apparently isn't big enough to read this clearly, C but I don't see anything specific about features --- unless CIFS is - *just* IA64'ed Samba with nothing else added.   I > As always we appreciate your timely feed back via our web site process. ? > Please feel free to provide us advice on the products ease of I > implementation, its documentation, the products functionality and where  > new features may be warranted   6 Is the CIFS documentation on line? I couldn't find it.  $ Thank you, Sue for your information.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 20:59:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? + Message-ID: <48j4spFk7nvlU1@individual.net>   , In article <44245C6B.F4473364@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > Hey, I had never considered Intel/HP selling that IA64 thing.  It is in J > fact a bright idea. Intel would still get the FAB business for the chip,H > but not have to pay any development costs for it, so it would become a > profit centre.  E That's assuming it is being bought for further development as opposed F to acquiring some technology that is owned along with Itanium that has some value elswhere.   > H > Then, Intel would be able to claim it did not abandon that IA64 thing.K > And when the japanese consortium would kill it, Intel woudln't be blamed.   E Why would Intel need to worry about it?  if this is true then Intel's C value is about to increase.  One never needs to make excuses to the  stockholders for that.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:54:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? , Message-ID: <44245C6B.F4473364@teksavvy.com>  G Hey, I had never considered Intel/HP selling that IA64 thing.  It is in H fact a bright idea. Intel would still get the FAB business for the chip,F but not have to pay any development costs for it, so it would become a profit centre.  F Then, Intel would be able to claim it did not abandon that IA64 thing.I And when the japanese consortium would kill it, Intel woudln't be blamed.   D IA64 has no additional intellectual property value to Intel since itE already owns that intellectual property on its 8086. So, selling that B intellectual property to some japanese firm gives Intel money, but; doesn't deprive Intel of any IP since Intel keeps the 8086.   A The 10 billion dollar promise made recently may have been done to H cushion the blow and lead credence that HP will continue to push for the? IA64 thing despite IA64 being sent to what would essentially be  maintenance mode.   E I can imagine Fujitsu buying the IP for that IA64 thing so it can use 4 some of that IP to improve Sparc :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:57:52 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? , Message-ID: <44245D4B.AC44F756@teksavvy.com>   Bob Kas wrote: > / >    Jeez  will you give up on this idea ......  > 7 >  1)  You'll never get the Alpha People back together.   H Shirley, they must have some reunions from time to time ? Heck, even the Beatles had a few renions.   :-)   A I agree about Alpha not getting any more development. All I could H potentially see is HP postponing end of sales and ordering another batchC of EV79s from Intel to last a few more years until VMS is ported to  industry standard acrhitecture.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:51:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? , Message-ID: <442469D1.DB114214@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:G > Why would Intel need to worry about it?  if this is true then Intel's E > value is about to increase.  One never needs to make excuses to the  > stockholders for that.    F The issue is that of support/trust with enterprise customers. Lets notG kid outselves, Intel may narrow its architecture to the 8086, but it is G definitely going to have some "enterprise" version of the 8086 aimed at H high margin market  with features not present in normal wintel servers ,D desktop and laptops. So it doesn't want a blemish on its reputation.  F On the other hand, the media will probably applaud Intel's decision toF abandon that boat anchor and customers will be happy to no longer haveB to worry about that IA64 thing.  With the 8086 profitable and HUGEC business, there is every confidence that Intel will not abandon it.   H So while some customers may feel betrayed by Intel abandonning IA64, I'dE say most would be happy to finally move to the original goal os using 0 enterprise quality OS on industry standard chip.  H And yes, from a financial perspective, the news that Intel would be ableG to focus on its fledgling 8086 product and regain market share from AMD  would be most welcome.    C I was saddened when I heard that the "Queen of the North" sank this F week. I had many pleasant memories of the ship. And they served a mostE excellent chocolate cake on it too :-) It has had a long life serving E many passengers. And it was faster than cruise ships also sailing the  inside passage.   G I will be happy to see Itanic sink. I have no pleasant memories of that D chip and it was plagued with problems and uncertain future before itH even got to market. It never serve chocolate cake and it hsan't had muchH of a life and hasn't served that many cutsomers. And it certainly hasn't1 been faster than other chips in the same markets.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:42:51 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? 9 Message-ID: <l5OdnY98LdUHMLnZnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Bob Kas wrote: > / >>   Jeez  will you give up on this idea ......  >>7 >> 1)  You'll never get the Alpha People back together.  >  > J > Shirley, they must have some reunions from time to time ? Heck, even the > Beatles had a few renions. >  > :-)  > C > I agree about Alpha not getting any more development. All I could J > potentially see is HP postponing end of sales and ordering another batchE > of EV79s from Intel to last a few more years until VMS is ported to ! > industry standard acrhitecture.   I Jeez, will you get a clue?  To my knowledge, Intel has not fabbed Alphas  B for quite a while.  IBM is the supplier of Alpha chips.  Possibly F Samsung, but my understanding was that they were so disgusted by June 9 21, 2001 that they immediately quit doing anything Alpha.   G As for the Alpha engineers, after being f**ked over the way they were,  F some would never come back, and the rest would need really incredible  incentives.   G The entire story of selling the itanic just isn't believable.  Can you  H tell me just who needs such a large money pit?  If you can, I'm getting I in line to talk to them.  Got some prime Florida bottom land, great real  E estate on the back side of the moon, maybe even sell some prime open  B space the other side of Pluto.  Make that Neptune for a few years.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:45:15 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? 9 Message-ID: <l5OdnY58LdW9M7nZnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@libcom.com>    shoppa@trailing-edge.com wrote:  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > + >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30514  >  > D > Well, The Inquirer is hardly an "unbiased" news source here, BUT IH > personally trust it way beyond what is ever said in a press release or  > even an internal tech meeting. > H > That said, this is not the first time in the industry (for Intel it isD > at least the fourth) that they swore up and down that a particularD > chip/architecture was going to be the future of all computing, allG > sorts of business partners "realigned" themselves around it, and then I > if slipped, it faltered, and EVENTUALLY corporate reasoning came around D > and figured out it was all a crock of shit to begin with. What I'm, > surprised at is how few heads have rolled. >  > Tim. >   G Lets see, how does it go?  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice,  3 shame on me.  But who to blame for the fourth time?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:34:29 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? , Message-ID: <4424BA38.95076879@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > Jeez, will you get a clue?  To my knowledge, Intel has not fabbed Alphas: > for quite a while.  IBM is the supplier of Alpha chips.   F OK then. HP could go to IBM and get a new batch of alpha chips fabbed.E Point is that if HP wants, they can get more Alpha EV79 fabbed, and I J wouldn't be surprised if there was some room for another speed bump on it.  H > The entire story of selling the itanic just isn't believable.  Can you1 > tell me just who needs such a large money pit?    C A buyer of IA64 woudln't be buying it to maintain IA64, it would be D buying it to gain access to patents. And Intel could claim that theyD hace recuperated some of its investment into a big heavy slow movingE monster. You can bet that Intel would state something to the order of 2 "tersm of the transations were not made public".    C Intel could also do something akin to what PSION did to offload its A EPOC32 OS: create a consortium to own IA64 with Intel still a big H shareholder, and Intel could slowly sell shares to another member of theH consortium until Intel was no longer a shareholder at all.  The recentlyM formed IA64 solutions alliance might be the foundation for such a consortium.   F Intel could then bill that alliance for engineering work that needs toE be done to IA64 and then the alliance could find a FABbing contractor  (likely intel again).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:04:49 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 8 Subject: Re: Is VMS Security being dumbed-down for Java?1 Message-ID: <e02fg6$p4n$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   	 Hi Steve,   I Thanks again for the replies. If I can hold your interest for a couple of L clarification questions, that you (and possibly someone else?) could help me out with that would be great.   B "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> pre-empted something a lot like :-J "Event flags are crap! And that's going in the Programming Concepts Manual :-)"   Then proceeded: -   I >   As for the question, you can only use inner-mode-safe calls.   Pretty G >   or not, like it or not, want it or not, you can only use calls that J >   are safe from inner-mode code.  RTL calls are not safe from inner-mode	 >   code.   B Can I just pin you down on your definition of an RTL? Is a call toK SYS$GETUAI or SYS$PERSONA_CREATE in sys$library:secureshp.exe a "RTL call"? H So as not to try and trick you, when previously (couple of years ago?) II asked "Is it safe to call sys$getuai from a UWSS?" your answer was "AFAIK K No.". I am now of the opinion that what we're walking away with here is "It J is safe to call other UWSS shareable images (including SECURESHRP) but not% other user-mode RTLs." Is that right?   ) > But if problems do arise and the report I >   gets to OpenVMS Engineering, my input is going to be "not supported".   L You can't get much plainer than that, and I appreciate your candour. But theI image I'm stuck with is that of the poor developer's face who, after just H spending a big chunk of his life reinventing a new heap-managment wheel,A stumbles across ACMS or Rdb (or PCA$COLLECTOR) code that's called C LIB$GET_VM_PAGE from year dot and has had oodles of VMS engineering  involvement. He's gutted!!!   F (We need a witch-hunt to track down these RTL callers. I've heard they= float! (Or are lighter than a duck :-) Either way burn them!)   > But if the VMS documentation set did not consistently refer toL LIB$GET_VM_PAGE being called from inner mode then I suspect that support andF engineering would not be hounded about it for all eternity. Will these' references be removed from the doc set?   H >   also see the following documentation in the message files and in the: >   documentation on writing User Written System Services. > C >  NOSHRIMG,  privileged shareable image cannot have outbound calls   D When did it become legal to drop the /PROTECT qualifier on the $LINKK command? Are we agreed that a re-visit of the relevant documentation should 1 have taken place at that time and, sadly, didn't?   : >   obviously the kernel-mode C library, are safe to call.  K Once again, can you please tell me the file-spec for this library? (And are K the routines as well documented as the EXE$ routines) Are there kernel mode ) equivalents of malloc, and realloc et al?   ) > Inner-mode calls to anything other than D > exec-based system services are not generally considered supported.  K Anyone got just *one* example of a non exec-based system service call being  specifically supported?   > Oh, and why does the image activator treat LIBRTL differently?   Thanks agin.   Cheers Richard Maher   PS, You also said: -I >   As for the question, you can only use inner-mode-safe calls.   Pretty G >   or not, like it or not, want it or not, you can only use calls that " >   are safe from inner-mode code.  K So when is VMS engineering going to provide a half-decent heap-manager that J can be called from inner-mode(s)? May I humbly suggest that it moves up onJ the priority list somewhere above the clamour to introduce the much neededK /PAGE qualifier on the $SHOW ZONE command? After the documentation has gone I to such great lengths to try to stop people from using existing tools, it H would be ludicrous to suggest it wasn't needed. (And that it hasn't been need for about 20 years)  0 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message, news:pxgUf.5109$TL3.2713@news.cpqcorp.net...C > In article <dvrhs6$irf$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" % <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > I > :Let's look at LIB$*_EF. Even within the inner mode of a UWSS, would it  not B > :be nice to support the convention of allocating event flags via
 LIB$GET_EF< > :thus avoiding potential conflict with the User-Mode code. > J >   Event flags are not a construct I prefer to use, having found these toL >   be largely non-modular and exceedingly difficult to scale, and variouslyJ >   quite difficult to debug and control.  As I have stated elsewhere withJ >   some regularity, I avoid event flags in all but the most trival cases,J >   having been badly burned by this construct across several projects.  IJ >   now use EFN$C_ENF quite commonly, avoiding event flag zero, and I haveI >   been using ASTs and threads (either POSIX Threads or KP Threads), and 6 >   bitflags, semiphores, locks or queues as required. > I >   As for the question, you can only use inner-mode-safe calls.   Pretty G >   or not, like it or not, want it or not, you can only use calls that J >   are safe from inner-mode code.  RTL calls are not safe from inner-mode	 >   code.  > G >   As a general rule, system services are (usually) safe, and most any H >   calls that use LIB$ or SMG$ or other calls can be quite problematic.G >   I am aware of some applications that have "gotten lucky" here, too, G >   and haven't seen problems.  But if problems do arise and the report I >   gets to OpenVMS Engineering, my input is going to be "not supported".  >  > :> and known to have > :> various failures  > : K > :Please point out any that come to mind. (I'm not questioning they exist!  OnE > :the contrary, I know they're out there and could have missed many)  > K >   OpenVMS traditionally doesn't have to, need to, or even want to explain L >   why some construct, platform or operation is unsupported.  In this case,H >   the particular case I've slammed into was page protection errors --  pages J >   of memory within the heap end up owned by inner modes, and badness canF >   then ensue -- maybe not at all, or maybe not immediately.  I fully expectH >   there are other cases of badness that can arise outside of the heap, too. > ? >   To avoid Larry Kilgallen's circular reference to me at/via:  > A >     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/swdev/ovms-shexe-cook.html  > H >   also see the following documentation in the message files and in the: >   documentation on writing User Written System Services. >  > -- > C >  NOSHRIMG,  privileged shareable image cannot have outbound calls  > ) >   Facility:     SYSTEM, System Services  > I >   Explanation:  Privileged shareable images, also known as user-written  systemF >                 services or protected images, cannot reference other	 shareable J >                 images. This check is made when the privileged shareable image L >                 is activated. If a reference to another image is detected,L >                 the entire activation is aborted and this error message is >                 issued.  > L >   User Action:  Rewrite the privileged shareable image so that it does not3 >                 reference other shareable images.  >  > -- >  >   and see: > B >     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/5841/5841pro_082.html > B >     "As a protected image, your program does not have the entire? >     operating system programming environment at its disposal. A >     Unless a module has the prefix SYS$ or EXE$, you must avoid ? >     calling it from an inner mode. In particular, do not call ? >     LIB$GET_VM or LIB$RET_VM from an inner mode. You can call B >     OpenVMS RMS routines from executive mode but not from kernel >     mode." > G >   Hmmm.  "lib$ret_vm"?  Looks like either I had a typo in what I gave F >   the writer, or there was an editing error downstream.  As of aboutH >   five minutes ago, there's a report of that error logged.  (That callE >   should be lib$free_vm, obviously.)  Most sys$ and exe$ calls, and : >   obviously the kernel-mode C library, are safe to call. > A >   OpenVMS does not have a particularly good nor complete set of A >   documentation for inner-mode coding, though I do try to cover B >   that topic in a few of my presentations.  The only major piece@ >   of documentation for this environment presently available isA >   the driver manual -- that manual is, however, the central set D >   of documentation for the supported inner-mode coding on OpenVMS. >  >  > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- 4 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq , >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- I >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:39:58 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>( Subject: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ?0 Message-ID: <1228imigqvjf28d@corp.supernews.com>   Hi !  K I know the 2 are not exactly the same, as [000000...] will also list files   in the root directory K That's what I use in my backups, to make sure I get every file on the disk.   K But this morning I was copying a disk onto another, using [000000...]*.*.*   and got some of these messages: M %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening $1$DGA80:[SIQUE.TRAVAIL]SIQUE14534973.DAT;1   as output/ -RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not superseded   K The disk was initialized when I started, so there's no way the files could   exist beforehand. J My first thought was that it was because the command also copied the .DIR L files (possibly with all their content) , but this is not the case. A later & test show that the directory is empty.  A So can anybody tell me what`s different between those 2 commands? @ $ back $1$dga67:[*...]*.*.* $1$dga80:[*...]/own=orig/igno=interlE $ back $1$dga67:[000000...]*.*.* $1$dga80:[*...]/own=orig/igno=interl   M I've been doing [000000...] for many years for my tape baclup, naver had any  C problems doing a restore (even an image) but this is strange today.   M BTW for some files the message is displayed more than once (how could backup  ! read the same input file twice?).   + I hope someone understands what`s going on!    Thanks
 OVMS 7.3-1   --   Syltrem L http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en franais)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:11:07 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) , Subject: Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ?2 Message-ID: <vnYUf.5292$Ua5.1765@news.cpqcorp.net>  ] In article <1228imigqvjf28d@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:      I'd tend to use:  /     BACKUP/IMAGE/[NO]ALIAS  $1$dga67: $1$dga80:   G   If you want to permit silent disk data corruptions within your output F   disk data, do continue to use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK, of course.  Haven't;   seen a corruption?  Congrats!  (Go buy a lottery ticket.)   F   The handling of 000000 is somewhat odd, as it is self-referential --D   it's the starting point of the whole file system; the Master File E   Directory (MFD).  It's both in the MFD, and it's the directory that F   contains the MFD.  On tape operations, the MFD is also somewhat odd,   but differently odd.  D   Me?  I use BACKUP/IMAGE/[NO]ALIAS when I want to replicate a disk.D   I also tend to crank up the SET RMS values, too, as this can speedC   the BACKUP operation.  (This renders the discussion of file-based 5   BACKUP syntax errors and oddities moot, of course.)   6 :%BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening [filename] as output0 :-RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not superseded  G   Do you have multiple versions of the file within the input directory, E   or do you have file or directory aliases present in the input data? F   Exactly what was the output command specification used?  I'd tend toE   assume that the root cause was an errant output specification or an G   alias in the input, leading to an attempt to restore two or more file E   versions using a colliding version number.  (To spot alias entries, B   look for duplicated FID values using DIRECTORY/FILE or similar.)  H   And on general principles, I'd ANALYZE/DISK[/REPAIR] the input device.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:44:22 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ?0 Message-ID: <1228mfb3s0ke88a@corp.supernews.com>  1 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message  , news:vnYUf.5292$Ua5.1765@news.cpqcorp.net...= > In article <1228imigqvjf28d@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem"  $ > <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: >  >  I'd tend to use:  > 0 >    BACKUP/IMAGE/[NO]ALIAS  $1$dga67: $1$dga80: > H >  If you want to permit silent disk data corruptions within your outputG >  disk data, do continue to use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK, of course.  Haven't < >  seen a corruption?  Congrats!  (Go buy a lottery ticket.) > G >  The handling of 000000 is somewhat odd, as it is self-referential -- D >  it's the starting point of the whole file system; the Master FileF >  Directory (MFD).  It's both in the MFD, and it's the directory thatG >  contains the MFD.  On tape operations, the MFD is also somewhat odd,  >  but differently odd.  > E >  Me?  I use BACKUP/IMAGE/[NO]ALIAS when I want to replicate a disk. E >  I also tend to crank up the SET RMS values, too, as this can speed D >  the BACKUP operation.  (This renders the discussion of file-based6 >  BACKUP syntax errors and oddities moot, of course.) > 8 > :%BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening [filename] as output2 > :-RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not superseded > H >  Do you have multiple versions of the file within the input directory,F >  or do you have file or directory aliases present in the input data?G >  Exactly what was the output command specification used?  I'd tend to F >  assume that the root cause was an errant output specification or anH >  alias in the input, leading to an attempt to restore two or more fileF >  versions using a colliding version number.  (To spot alias entries,C >  look for duplicated FID values using DIRECTORY/FILE or similar.)  > I >  And on general principles, I'd ANALYZE/DISK[/REPAIR] the input device.  > ( > ---------------------------- #include ) > <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >    For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq, > --------------------------- pure personal % > opinion --------------------------- H >       Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com >     # I am not exactly duplicating a disk ' I am copying 2 disks onto a single one. * I could do an image for the 1st one but...  4 BTW, I also got the error message once, using [*...]  B There are no alias names (for directories or files) on these disks   Will try an analyze/disk/repair   J As for restores, I have only restored a whole disk once I think. And I do M use /image/noalias for the system disk. Usually we only get back a couple of   files at a time from the tapes. ? Should I refrain from using [000000...] and use [*...] instead? I I changed the backup procedure after seeing people I work with, creating  I files onto [000000]. Although this is not something I would recommend, I  M changed the backup to include those files rather that trying to explain they   should not do that.    Syltrem    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:54:25 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) , Subject: Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ?2 Message-ID: <50ZUf.5302$ac5.4974@news.cpqcorp.net>  ] In article <1228mfb3s0ke88a@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:      [...deletia...]   F   When merging disks, I tend to select the specific directories I wishC   to propogate, or I tend to set up concealed rooted logical names, 
   or both.  E   Failing that, I would use [*...]*.*;* (or *.*;0) as input and would H   use [*...]*.*;* (or *.*;1) as output.  Remember that [000000] contains>   itself; it's the directory that's both in and above the MFD.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:19:36 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ?, Message-ID: <44246261.F73DA0F0@teksavvy.com>   Syltrem wrote:L > But this morning I was copying a disk onto another, using [000000...]*.*.*! > and got some of these messages: N > %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening $1$DGA80:[SIQUE.TRAVAIL]SIQUE14534973.DAT;1 > as > output1 > -RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not superseded   H If a directory or the file is aliased (aka: multiple entries pointing toD the same phsyical file, it would explain the message. The first timeD Backup gets a directory pointing to file ID (0,2,3), it creates that@ file. Second time it finds a directory entry pointing to file ID9 (0,2,3), it would complain that the file already exists.    C Since you are not doing a BACKUP/IMAGE, then backup really tries to D recreate each file and may not have the logic to deal with aliases.   L > The disk was initialized when I started, so there's no way the files could > exist beforehand.   F A copy of yourself from a different dimension temporarily shifted intoC your dimension and his backup command which ran just a bit ahead of C yours affected your disk and deposited a file there :-) :-) :-) :-)   C > So can anybody tell me what`s different between those 2 commands? B > $ back $1$dga67:[*...]*.*.* $1$dga80:[*...]/own=orig/igno=interlG > $ back $1$dga67:[000000...]*.*.* $1$dga80:[*...]/own=orig/igno=interl     7 [*...]*.*.* doesn't grab files in the master directory.   N > BTW for some files the message is displayed more than once (how could backup# > read the same input file twice?).    Aliased directories.  K You can use DFU to draw up a list of files that are aliased on your system.   A If this is a system disk, remember that [000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR is G aliased to [SYS0]SYSCOMMON.DIR so all files that live under it would be # copied twice by a non image backup.     N > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en franais)  F You need to update this: it is now http://pages.videotron.com/syltrem/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:29:46 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Is [000000...] same as [*...] ?, Message-ID: <442464C3.56FED502@teksavvy.com>   Syltrem wrote:% > I am not exactly duplicating a disk ) > I am copying 2 disks onto a single one. , > I could do an image for the 1st one but...  ' In that case, the second one should be:   4 BACKUP [000000...]*.*;*/exclude=[000000]*.sys target  D This way, you get whatever user files in the MFD without getting the actual volume definition files.     E If you have DFU installed, you can have it draw a list of any aliased G files. You may not have put any on your disks, but perhaps someone else H did, or perhaps it happened by accident due to a stray bear walking nextG your your data centre in Canada :-) (The bears are awakening now due to  melting snow).   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 20:34:26 -08009 From: "d_gillbilly@hotmail.com" <d_gillbilly@hotmail.com> 3 Subject: Just Ask The Vendor: Securing The Endpoint B Message-ID: <1143261266.514933.16400@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>  , To the regular contributors to this group... Please!  I don't need the answers. $ The questions are for others to ask.  
 Mr Vendor,  / Can VMS systems safely connect to the internet?   C Would securing the home connection to the internet actually improve  internet security?  ! Does VMS take security seriously?   F If VMS does take security seriously, then why don't you use it to help secure the home user?   G If you or others think that security is a current concern, then please,    Just ask the vendor.   I know that they can help.  /    VMS: Big business muscle for the little guy.          D. Gillespie3         Port Hood (provincial midget hackey games!)          Nova Scotia    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:35:18 +0800 # From: borobod <nospam@acrossthe.eq> 3 Subject: Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup : Message-ID: <vil8229hrqquh7b4if0titrclurdgme7d2@127.0.0.1>   Nomen Nescio wrote:    >JF Mezei trolled: > I >>The real reason NASA is covering up life on venus is that it knows that H >>Venus is populated only by beautiful women who, by necessity, would beJ >>lesbians capable of reproduction. Knowledge of this would greatly reduceH >>the popularity of the current government in the USA which garners much* >>of its support on its anti gay policies. >>I >>The mere thought of all those beautiful women soaping each other in the J >>shower would be enough to turn most males in the USA to support gays andE >>thus the current government would lose some of its support base and " >>stand to lose the next election. >>H >>This is the REAL reason NASA was instructed by the white house to keep) >>the existence of Venusian women secret.  >>C >>However, there are rumours that Victoria's Secrets as well as the I >>california porn industry may join forces to lobby the government to not G >>only admit to the females on venus, but also strike a free trade deal J >>with Venus to allow Victoria's Secret to penetrate a huge female market,I >>and for the porn industry to source great new actresses for its movies.  >>G >>Just imagine the titles such as "Debbie does Venus". And if NASA gets I >>royalties from those movies, as well as revenues from transporting tons I >>of Victoria's Secret lingerie to Venus, its budgets would be sufficient  >>to fund its other endeavours.   @ Lesbians in space!  Another scandal for the Bush administration!  E I bet Rove is behind this.  He looks like the kind of guy who keeps a 3 secret apartment full of porn and whips and chains.   F >Does your mom know how much time you spend down there in the basement >watching lesbian porn?  > F >As you approach your 50th birthday, will your parents finally ask you >to get a job and move out?  > @ >http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/5e814528bf75efa9  C What you have to understand is that it is common for people in many D countries to live at home until late in life.  In Italy for instanceB men stay at home until their forties or in some cases even beyond.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 12:37:38 -08004 From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrow@earthlink.net>3 Subject: Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup C Message-ID: <1143232658.388302.242130@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    Nomen Nescio wrote:    > JF Mezei trolled:  > J > >The real reason NASA is covering up life on venus is that it knows thatI > >Venus is populated only by beautiful women who, by necessity, would be K > >lesbians capable of reproduction. Knowledge of this would greatly reduce I > >the popularity of the current government in the USA which garners much + > >of its support on its anti gay policies.  > > J > >The mere thought of all those beautiful women soaping each other in theK > >shower would be enough to turn most males in the USA to support gays and F > >thus the current government would lose some of its support base and# > >stand to lose the next election.  > > I > >This is the REAL reason NASA was instructed by the white house to keep * > >the existence of Venusian women secret. > > D > >However, there are rumours that Victoria's Secrets as well as theJ > >california porn industry may join forces to lobby the government to notH > >only admit to the females on venus, but also strike a free trade dealK > >with Venus to allow Victoria's Secret to penetrate a huge female market, J > >and for the porn industry to source great new actresses for its movies. > > H > >Just imagine the titles such as "Debbie does Venus". And if NASA getsJ > >royalties from those movies, as well as revenues from transporting tonsJ > >of Victoria's Secret lingerie to Venus, its budgets would be sufficient  > >to fund its other endeavours. > G > Does your mom know how much time you spend down there in the basement  > watching lesbian porn? > G > As you approach your 50th birthday, will your parents finally ask you  > to get a job and move out? > A > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/5e814528bf75efa9      FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS    About JF MEZEI  @ The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the sci.space.* newsgroups.      (Last Revised - August 3, 2005)      Written by:      Marc Bissonnette 1725 Beachburg Road  Beachburg, Ontario  K0J 1C0  (613) 582-7056/ d r a g n e t @ i n t e r n a l y s i s . c o m  http://www.internalysis.com  http://www.canadianisp.com     and      Darrell Larose 121 Northwestern Ave Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 (613) 725-0245# c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m 1 a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A      1.  Who is JF Mezei?    C Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever C hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also 4 one of the longest running trolls in usenet history.    C ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND C E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS  THEIR MESSAGES.***    E If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor E the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your & messages, forward a copies of them to:# a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m # a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m # a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m     # See also http://www.usenetabuse.com     " 2.  How long has he been trolling?     For well over a decade.      3.  Where does he live?      Montreal, Quebec, Canada     Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 992-0474 (514) 695-8259    ! His current e-mail addresses are: ' j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ) j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a     ) His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .     * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?    C His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades D your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, dayF in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He@ does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything4 anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when theA misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes C right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his F ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"      5.  What does he troll about?     F His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeB hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn itC into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start  making lewd posts.    $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?    E Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have E a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a B happier, better, more successful version of their country and they> can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushE Regime", "the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are B brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.    # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?     E Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sA genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of   course) ... the list is endless.     8.  Circumcision???     F Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes< to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.C Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor B Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasB born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in Canada@ where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was? psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he @ arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofE circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a @ free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toB masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin"F getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in' life to spread the circumcision gospel.     @ 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.     @ Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among theE subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, E especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little @ girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate thatC children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't , grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".    E He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their C little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, F proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.A Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their  little boys' penises.     @ 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the+ minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff?     D Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a' decade full of Mezei trolling in there.     C 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the  time like all trolls do?    B Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling aliases.     A 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he  work?     E Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a C grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and @ trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn'tF trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the# planes down the runway in his bike.     9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?     D Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he neverA got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor F (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.    C 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about  them, is that true?     @ Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in theB locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has= seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural F obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toB measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if theyF have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.    @ 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!    D Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin; foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to F understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the worldD is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.    D What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian railD system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut,D spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down atB the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention toC aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the C abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent F takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatE when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees D went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to coverE up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of ; the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this.     6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!    F His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someE ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken A seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and C social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the 1 good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!     ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?     @ can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geekyD computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster heB invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, andF trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapE he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go D crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds.     A 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and  doesn't troll.    F Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so> he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large heA respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his A trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major  netkook he is.    F 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!    E Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while F you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido? too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and  news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.    4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?    D Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:     # a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ) d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m # a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m # a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m      also http://www.usenetabuse.com     7 You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.      TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  330 Richmond St., Suite 205  Chatham, ON, Canada  N7M 1P7     D And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups,C email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to D newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***    @ List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over theF years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.    ' j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m 7 j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ! j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m 1 j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m ' j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a - j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a 5 n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a ; " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ]     * nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m>* nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t>* nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g>, nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o>* nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t>, nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l>& nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v>    # Janice Staples <jstap...@noaol.com> ) Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ' Lando Calrisian <Lcalris...@empire.org>  muklak <muk...@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <s...@station.au># snowy squirrel <squir...@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspir...@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Racc...@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <fla...@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vu...@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <t...@gonads.com> % Loose Scrotum <l.scro...@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Or...@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Che...@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclin...@westchester.com> ( Deep Fried Foreskin <d...@mcdonalds.com>! Aroma of Smegma <a...@chanel.org>  Wet fart <w.F...@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandr...@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nip...@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Fin...@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <sha...@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Mea...@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGr...@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.K...@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mo...@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Ana...@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ul...@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getl...@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wanka...@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpa...@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneo...@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.It...@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToW...@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.to...@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.ter...@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Go...@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Go...@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Go...@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyso...@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.h...@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sul...@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manh...@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <arm...@anatomy.org> Onani Room <o...@hotels.com>& Arnie's Banana <wei...@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebr...@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.defer...@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.can...@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.So...@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.except...@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Che...@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovar...@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eye...@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tom...@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earri...@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpa...@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <n...@lint.mil>' Ingrown Toenail <i.toen...@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stom...@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stom...@anatomy.org>! Smelly Cat <S...@friends.nbc.com> & Torn Ligament <T.Ligam...@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tis...@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Racc...@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Rac...@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Rac...@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Rac...@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Racc...@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Rac...@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Rac...@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Rac...@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Rac...@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Racc...@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Racc...@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.racc...@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Racc...@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Rac...@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Sa...@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chi...@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yel...@nowhere.com>  Q <q...@continuum.net> Borg Queen <1...@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkers...@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balter...@sympatico.ca>     = *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* "    </>     A Wow!  This "JF" character is *really* sorta wierd, ain't he...???    --   Best Greg   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 12:40:06 -08004 From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrow@earthlink.net>3 Subject: Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup C Message-ID: <1143232806.063474.136300@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    borobod wrote:   > Nomen Nescio wrote:  >  > >JF Mezei trolled: > > K > >>The real reason NASA is covering up life on venus is that it knows that J > >>Venus is populated only by beautiful women who, by necessity, would beL > >>lesbians capable of reproduction. Knowledge of this would greatly reduceJ > >>the popularity of the current government in the USA which garners much, > >>of its support on its anti gay policies. > >>K > >>The mere thought of all those beautiful women soaping each other in the L > >>shower would be enough to turn most males in the USA to support gays andG > >>thus the current government would lose some of its support base and $ > >>stand to lose the next election. > >>J > >>This is the REAL reason NASA was instructed by the white house to keep+ > >>the existence of Venusian women secret.  > >>E > >>However, there are rumours that Victoria's Secrets as well as the K > >>california porn industry may join forces to lobby the government to not I > >>only admit to the females on venus, but also strike a free trade deal L > >>with Venus to allow Victoria's Secret to penetrate a huge female market,K > >>and for the porn industry to source great new actresses for its movies.  > >>I > >>Just imagine the titles such as "Debbie does Venus". And if NASA gets K > >>royalties from those movies, as well as revenues from transporting tons K > >>of Victoria's Secret lingerie to Venus, its budgets would be sufficient ! > >>to fund its other endeavours.  > B > Lesbians in space!  Another scandal for the Bush administration! > G > I bet Rove is behind this.  He looks like the kind of guy who keeps a 5 > secret apartment full of porn and whips and chains.  > H > >Does your mom know how much time you spend down there in the basement > >watching lesbian porn?  > > H > >As you approach your 50th birthday, will your parents finally ask you > >to get a job and move out?  > > B > >http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/5e814528bf75efa9 > E > What you have to understand is that it is common for people in many F > countries to live at home until late in life.  In Italy for instanceD > men stay at home until their forties or in some cases even beyond.    4 Except JF will still be at home until he is _1_40...   --   best Greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:12:16 -0500 * From: "d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>3 Subject: Re: Lesbians living on Venus! NASA Coverup 7 Message-ID: <QK0Vf.3237$lM3.883@bignews3.bellsouth.net>   2 What is the cut-off age for Astronaut training????   :0)    DT    @ "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrow@earthlink.net> wrote in message = news:1143232658.388302.242130@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...  >  > Nomen Nescio wrote:  >  >> JF Mezei trolled: >>K >> >The real reason NASA is covering up life on venus is that it knows that J >> >Venus is populated only by beautiful women who, by necessity, would beL >> >lesbians capable of reproduction. Knowledge of this would greatly reduceJ >> >the popularity of the current government in the USA which garners much, >> >of its support on its anti gay policies. >> >K >> >The mere thought of all those beautiful women soaping each other in the L >> >shower would be enough to turn most males in the USA to support gays andG >> >thus the current government would lose some of its support base and $ >> >stand to lose the next election. >> >J >> >This is the REAL reason NASA was instructed by the white house to keep+ >> >the existence of Venusian women secret.  >> >E >> >However, there are rumours that Victoria's Secrets as well as the K >> >california porn industry may join forces to lobby the government to not I >> >only admit to the females on venus, but also strike a free trade deal L >> >with Venus to allow Victoria's Secret to penetrate a huge female market,K >> >and for the porn industry to source great new actresses for its movies.  >> >I >> >Just imagine the titles such as "Debbie does Venus". And if NASA gets K >> >royalties from those movies, as well as revenues from transporting tons K >> >of Victoria's Secret lingerie to Venus, its budgets would be sufficient ! >> >to fund its other endeavours.  >>H >> Does your mom know how much time you spend down there in the basement >> watching lesbian porn?  >>H >> As you approach your 50th birthday, will your parents finally ask you >> to get a job and move out?  >>B >> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/5e814528bf75efa9 >  >  > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS	 >   About 
 > JF MEZEI > B > The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the > sci.space.* newsgroups.  >  > ! > (Last Revised - August 3, 2005)  >  > 
 > Written by:  >  >  > Marc Bissonnette > 1725 Beachburg Road  > Beachburg, Ontario  K0J 1C0  > (613) 582-70561 > d r a g n e t @ i n t e r n a l y s i s . c o m  > http://www.internalysis.com  > http://www.canadianisp.com >  >  > and  >  >  > Darrell Larose > 121 Northwestern Ave > Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 > (613) 725-0245% > c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m 3 > a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A  >  >  > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? >  > E > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever E > hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also 6 > one of the longest running trolls in usenet history. >  > E > ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E > E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS  > THEIR MESSAGES.*** >  > G > If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor G > the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your ( > messages, forward a copies of them to:% > a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m % > a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m % > a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m  >  > % > See also http://www.usenetabuse.com  >  > $ > 2.  How long has he been trolling? >  >  > For well over a decade.  >  >  > 3.  Where does he live?  >  >  > Montreal, Quebec, Canada >  >  > Jean-Francois Mezei  > 86 Harwood Gate  > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  > (514) 992-0474 > (514) 695-8259 >  > # > His current e-mail addresses are: ) > j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m + > j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a  >  > + > His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .  >  > , > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? >  > E > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades F > your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, dayH > in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  HeB > does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything6 > anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when theC > misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes E > right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his H > ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you > say!"  >  >  > 5.  What does he troll about?  >  > H > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeD > hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn itE > into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start  > making lewd posts. >  > & > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? >  > G > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have G > a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a D > happier, better, more successful version of their country and they@ > can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushG > Regime", "the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are D > brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are > stupid" etc. >  > % > 7.  What about his sexual trolling?  >  > G > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. @ > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sC > genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of " > course) ... the list is endless. >  >  > 8.  Circumcision???  >  > H > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes> > to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.E > Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor D > Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasD > born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in CanadaB > where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he wasA > psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he B > arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofG > circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a B > free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toD > masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin"H > getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in) > life to spread the circumcision gospel.  >  > B > 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of	 > freaky.  >  > B > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among theG > subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, G > especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little B > girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate thatE > children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't . > grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". >  > G > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their E > little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, H > proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.C > Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their  > little boys' penises.  >  > B > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the- > minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff?  >  > F > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a) > decade full of Mezei trolling in there.  >  > E > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the  > time like all trolls do? >  > D > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known > trolling aliases.  >  > C > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he  > work?  >  > G > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a E > grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and B > trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn'tH > trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the% > planes down the runway in his bike.  >  > ; > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?  >  > F > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he neverC > got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor H > (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been > able to outgrow. >  > E > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about  > them, is that true?  >  > B > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in theD > locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has? > seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural H > obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toD > measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if theyH > have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case > of phimosis. >  > B > 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an > insane asylum! >  > F > Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin= > foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to H > understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the worldF > is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all > about. >  > F > What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian railF > system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut,F > spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down atD > the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention toE > aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the E > abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent H > takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatG > when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees F > went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to coverG > up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of = > the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this.  >  > 8 > 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! >  > H > His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someG > ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken C > seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and E > social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the 3 > good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  >  > # > 17.  Where else does he hang out?  >  > B > can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geekyF > computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster heD > invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, andH > trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapG > he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go F > crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking
 > his wounds.  >  > C > 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and  > doesn't troll. >  > H > Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so@ > he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large heC > respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his C > trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major  > netkook he is. >  > H > 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind > of psycho he is! >  > G > Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while H > you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fidoA > too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and  > news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. >  > 6 > 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? >  > F > Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts > to:  >  > % > a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m + > d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m % > a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m % > a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m  >  > ! > also http://www.usenetabuse.com  >  > 9 > You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.  >  >  > TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  > 330 Richmond St., Suite 205  > Chatham, ON, Canada 	 > N7M 1P7  >  > F > And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups,E > email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to F > newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do > with Montreal or Canada, etc.  >  >  > *** APPENDIX *** >  > B > List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over theH > years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to > compile a full list. >  > ) > j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m 9 > j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m # > j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m 3 > j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m ) > j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a / > j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a 7 > n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a = > " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ]  >  > , > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m>, > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t>, > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g>. > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o>, > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t>. > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l>( > nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v> >  > % > Janice Staples <jstap...@noaol.com> + > Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ) > Lando Calrisian <Lcalris...@empire.org>  > muklak <muk...@eskimo.net> > Sheep skin <s...@station.au>% > snowy squirrel <squir...@nest.tree> + > Conspiracy Theory <conspir...@theory.org> ( > Lou Raccoon <L.Racc...@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <fla...@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vu...@anatomy.org>  > Twin Gonads <t...@gonads.com> ' > Loose Scrotum <l.scro...@anatomy.org> $ > Raised Organ <R.Or...@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Che...@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclin...@westchester.com> * > Deep Fried Foreskin <d...@mcdonalds.com># > Aroma of Smegma <a...@chanel.org>  > Wet fart <w.F...@smell.org> ) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandr...@anatomy.org> * > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nip...@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Fin...@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <sha...@anatomy.org> ) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Mea...@anatomy.org> ' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGr...@anatomy.org>  > Pre Khum <P.K...@anatomy.org> # > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mo...@anatomy.org> % > Bal Anatis <Bal.Ana...@anatomy.org> " > Fren Ullum <F.Ul...@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getl...@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wanka...@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpa...@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneo...@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.It...@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToW...@anatomy.org> ! > Wan Tolik <w.to...@anatomy.org> & > Testos Terone <t.ter...@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Go...@anatomy.org> # > Right Gonad <R.Go...@anatomy.org> " > Left Gonad <L.Go...@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyso...@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.h...@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sul...@anatomy.org> ' > Corpus Cavernus <manh...@anatomy.org> & > Armpit moisture <arm...@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <o...@hotels.com>( > Arnie's Banana <wei...@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebr...@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.defer...@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.can...@naturists.org> ( > Arni's socks <Smelly.So...@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.except...@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Che...@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovar...@anatomy.org> ) > Pierced eyelid <p.eye...@piercings.org> * > Limp Tomato <limp.tom...@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earri...@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpa...@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <n...@lint.mil>) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toen...@anatomy.org> ' > Empty Stomach <E.Stom...@anatomy.org> & > Full Stomach <f.stom...@anatomy.org># > Smelly Cat <S...@friends.nbc.com> ( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligam...@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tis...@modern.museum> * > Furry Raccoon <F.Racc...@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Rac...@wildnerness.org> $ > Mad Racoon <M.Rac...@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Rac...@wilderness.org> ( > Eaten Racoon <E.Racc...@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Rac...@wilderness.org> + > Sleeping Racoon <S.Rac...@wilderness.org> ) > Hungry Racoon <H.Rac...@wilderness.org> $ > Horny Raccoon <H.Rac...@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Racc...@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Racc...@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.racc...@wilderness.org> , > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Racc...@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Rac...@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Sa...@nx01.starfleet.org> , > Oishi Chinko <O.Chi...@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yel...@nowhere.com>  > Q <q...@continuum.net> > Borg Queen <1...@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkers...@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balter...@sympatico.ca>  >  > ? > *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* "  >  > </>  >  > C > Wow!  This "JF" character is *really* sorta wierd, ain't he...???  >  > --   > Best > Greg >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:54:03 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ! Subject: libxml2 2.6.23 available 1 Message-ID: <Lw0Vf.5314$6c5.977@news.cpqcorp.net>   < The OpenVMS Freeware V8.0 submission deadline is 1-May-2006.  L OpenVMS Freeware submission information and various existing submissions are available via:  ,     <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/>  M To whet your appetite for the Freeware (and to hopefully lure you into making M your own submissions), I have posted up an early copy of the most recent port L of libxml2 2.6.23 (for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64) into the Freeware V8.0K staging area.   The original (and unported) source code for libxml2 is, of  + course, available via <http://xmlsoft.org/>       N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 13:52:41 -0800+ From: "juna" <ggl.20.jjpon@spamgourmet.com> ' Subject: LWP::Simple crashes on VMSperl B Message-ID: <1143237161.931669.48370@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  
 Hello all,  G I have a perl script called getprint_test.pl to fetch and display a web  page:    use LWP::Simple;! getprint "http://www.google.com";   4 It crashes on my VMSperl with the following message:  C Fatal VMS error (status=316) at P_ROOT:[000000]VMS.C;2, line 662 at / /perl_root/lib/site_perl/LWP/Simple.pm line 20. 9 Compilation failed in require at getprint_test.pl line 1. 8 BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at getprint.pl line 1.% %SYSTEM-F-IVCHAN, invalid I/O channel   6 I'm running OpenVMS v8.2 on an Alpha DS10. Perl v5.8.6D I tried re-installing libwww-perl versions 5.805, 5.800, 5.69, 5.51, 5.10 with the same result.  0 Here's a snip of mmk test on libwww-perl v5.805: :  local/autoload........ ok local/get.............F Fatal VMS error (status=100052) at P_ROOT:[000000]VMS.C;2, line 644 at" ../blib/lib/LWP/Simple.pm line 20.5 Compilation failed in require at local/get.t line 31. 9 BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at local/get.t line 31. + %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax error < Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at( /perl_root/lib/Test/Harness.pm line 809. dubious 1         Test returned status  (wstat 1024, 0x400) < Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at( /perl_root/lib/Test/Harness.pm line 812.                  (VMS status is ) local/http-get........ skipped A         all skipped: Can't talk to ourself (misconfigured system)  local/http............ skipped A         all skipped: Can't talk to ourself (misconfigured system)  local/protosub........ ok9 Failed Test Stat Wstat Total Fail  Failed  List of Failed O ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - html/form.t              122    1   0.82%  20 : Use of uninitialized value in formline at (eval 5) line 3.- local/get.t       1024    ??   ??       %  ??  4 tests skipped.D Failed 2/30 test scripts, 93.33% okay. 1/744 subtests failed, 99.87% okay.  %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abortD %MMK-F-ERRUPD, error status %X0000002C occurred when updating target TEST  * I have installed all the required prereqs:         MIME::Base64 v3.07         URI v1.35          Digest::MD5 v2.36          HTML::Parser v3.50             HTML::Tagset v3.10         Bundle::libnet v1.00         Compress-Zlib v1.41   
 Any ideas?   Thanks in advance,   Juna   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:03:28 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Newbie guide?, Message-ID: <44245E9B.464EC531@teksavvy.com>   Jim MacKenzie wrote:E > Where is a good place to start to learn how to be a hobbyist system M > administrator with OpenVMS?  I used VMS in the mid-1980s at university, but F > only as a user, not an administrator, and I've forgotten most of it.   http://www.hp.com/go/vms/doc  F For TCPIP Services, you need the TCPIP Services Management guide. (notF the command reference manual).  This covers most of the  TCPIP aspects of it.  E There are also a few web sites on the internet that are "Unix for VMS F people" designed when VMS people were migrating to Unix and which giveE command equivalences between the two. This may be of use to you, even  though the order is different.  B The CD itself may have documentation on how to Install VMS itself.  0 And there is comp.os.vms for specific questions.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 13:21:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: OT:HUMOR VMS Just Add Power Campaign 3 Message-ID: <AnM92GO8sj55@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1143208244.831443.306770@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes: >  > Bob Koehler wrote:# >> > http://www.trysecureserver.com  >> >>    Good stuff.  > E > Yes one of hp's better secrets but where is it possbile to buy one.   G    OK, so I got a trial account and redirected my Eisner account there. F    (I get lots of spam targetted to my Eisner account which I normallyF    redirect to a system where I control the spam filter).  I'm curious    to see how well it does.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:35:12 +1030 * From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au>- Subject: Re: Reading COMP.OS.VMS with browser 0 Message-ID: <1228mk7dmevuffd@corp.supernews.com>   Tom Linden wrote: ? > Have been using Opera for about 8 years first on Alpha NT but C > now on W2K for a number of years.  Upgraded today from 7. to 8.53 I > and discovered some untoward changes.  Messages from all the newsgroups F > to which I subscribed are now aggregated in same (UNREAD) window andJ > this is unacceptable.  Under prior version you selected the newsgroup toF > read.  Now it could be that i haven't found the right formula, but I > don't think so.  > 2 > Any recommendation for a browser for newsreader?  G User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; OpenVMS Digital_Personal_WorkStation;    en-US; rv:1.7.11) Gecko/20050824   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:07:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - but this is more useless , Message-ID: <44245185.AC507E40@teksavvy.com>   Roger Fraser wrote:  > $ spawn logout    - Thanks ! I got a good laugh at that one !!!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:41:16 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - even more silent 0 Message-ID: <C049DFBC.1D861%roktsci@comcast.net>  ' How about this for even more silent ...   $ $ (SPAWN|PIPE)+ (set acc/dis;logout)     On 3/24/06 3:45 AM, in article< 1143200735.295013.7030@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote:   >> $ spawn logout  >  > I like this even better: >  > $ pipe spawn logout  >  > or alternatively,  >  > $ spawn pipe logout  > E > Actually if you want to get elaborate, consider something along the  > grammatical lines of >  > $ (SPAWN|PIPE)+ logout >  > :-)  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:23 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout , Message-ID: <442452A7.7EBA9369@teksavvy.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote: > < > When I was in College, I had a symbol:  barf :== stop/id=0  G > though there was a line waiting for free terminals - everyone thought * > it was still running the "barf" command!    A And I had all this respect for you as the person in charge of the  hobbyist programme :-)  G Seriously though, when you do a STOP/ID=0  are there things that do not & happen that would happen with LOGOUT ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:20:19 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout 9 Message-ID: <MrSdndGnF8TXNbnZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > davidc@montagar.com wrote: > < >>When I was in College, I had a symbol:  barf :== stop/id=0 >  > G >>though there was a line waiting for free terminals - everyone thought * >>it was still running the "barf" command! >  >  > C > And I had all this respect for you as the person in charge of the  > hobbyist programme :-) > I > Seriously though, when you do a STOP/ID=0  are there things that do not ( > happen that would happen with LOGOUT ?  D In the dim distant past, there was clammoring for the capability of E running logout procedures with a guarantee that the procedures would  F always be performed.  It's been so long that I don't remember why the F capability was desired.  VMS engineering repeatedly replied that such F wasn't possible.  One of the reasons is STOP/ID which is a relatively H big hammer.  Exit handlers and such do not run.  My memory is that even F inner mode exit handlers do not run.  Not sure anymore, but I believe J the STOP/ID runs in kernel mode.  It's been a while, memory id going fast.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 19:26:41 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer+ Message-ID: <48ivfhFjj049U1@individual.net>   # In article <4423cfac@mvb.saic.com>, . 	Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:6 >> In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>  f >>>In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>> N >>>>Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-) >>>>I >>>>Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those  D >>>>even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions". >>> ( >>>   Real programmers do it with BLISS. >>   >>  J >> I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11? > B > The Bliss files at: http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/vmslt97b/pdp11/ > E > may be of interest to you.  According to the description contained  E > therein, this is a cross-compiler that runs on Alpha and generates  " > PDP-11 Macro code as its output.  D Which probably be of use if had an Alpha available to run it on. :-)6 My computers tend to be a bit older than that, though.  F Hmmmm......  Never having seen BLISS, I wondxer if there is any chanceD whatsoever that the BLISS-64 code for the BLISS-11 compiler could be# rewritten in some other language?   C Of course, it should also be rewritten in BLISS-11 so that it could @ actually be used to bootstrap itself.  How does that sound for a project?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2006 19:33:58 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer+ Message-ID: <48ivt6Fjj049U2@individual.net>   3 In article <ZM6lpBYSGai2@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <48icepFkau8bU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6 >> In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: g >>> In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>>>  O >>>> Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-)  >>>>  J >>>> Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those E >>>> even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions".  >>> ) >>>    Real programmers do it with BLISS.  >>  J >> I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11? > I >    Source for a BLISS-16 compiler is publically available, I think it's D >    on the VMS Freeware.  You'll need a PDP-10 to run it.  You can G >    probably use SIMH for the latter.  You'll need BLISS-10 (or maybe  K >    BLISS-36) to compile it.  BLISS-10 used to be on the TOPS-20 freeware   >    tapes.   H Yeah, but setting up a simulator, seting up a simulation of a PDP-10 andK installing and running TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 (whichever one it actually takes) G just to compile code for a PDP-11 sure seems like an awful lot of extra  work.    > J >    I was told DEC had two compilers for BLISS-16:  a cross compiler thatJ >    ran on PDP-10 under TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 and a cross compiler that ran A >    on VAX/VMS.  I never saw the one that ran on VAX.  No native  >    compiler.  H I was already aware of both of these, I was actually being just a littleE sarcastic.  Although I have to admit that the new discussion has made F me interested enough in BLISS to take a look at the source with an eye at porting possibilities.    I >    Maybe you'll port the free source to Common BLISS so it will compile ! >    under VMS as well as itself?   G What is Common BLISS?  Isn't it bad enough that I already know there is H BLISS-11, BLISS-16 and BLISS-64 and I have been led to believe that none, of them are compatable at the source level!!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 13:18:53 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer3 Message-ID: <ZM6lpBYSGai2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <48icepFkau8bU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <Q$thk6BsbCUP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:f >> In article <z-qdnR5XxMHgvL7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>> N >>> Well, John, you've been wondering what to do with all your free time.  :-) >>> I >>> Are we back to "Real programmers write in assembler", to which those  D >>> even older reply "Real programmers hardwire their instructions". >>  ( >>    Real programmers do it with BLISS. > I > I would love to.  Now, where can I find a BLISS Compiler for my PDP-11?   G    Source for a BLISS-16 compiler is publically available, I think it's B    on the VMS Freeware.  You'll need a PDP-10 to run it.  You can E    probably use SIMH for the latter.  You'll need BLISS-10 (or maybe  I    BLISS-36) to compile it.  BLISS-10 used to be on the TOPS-20 freeware  	    tapes.   H    I was told DEC had two compilers for BLISS-16:  a cross compiler thatH    ran on PDP-10 under TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 and a cross compiler that ran ?    on VAX/VMS.  I never saw the one that ran on VAX.  No native     compiler.  G    Maybe you'll port the free source to Common BLISS so it will compile     under VMS as well as itself?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:23:34 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer2 Message-ID: <azYUf.5298$Hb5.4333@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   >  > I > What is Common BLISS?  Isn't it bad enough that I already know there is J > BLISS-11, BLISS-16 and BLISS-64 and I have been led to believe that none. > of them are compatable at the source level!! >    > bill >     H Each BLISS variant often has architecture-specific builtins or features H (like access to REGISTERs or single-instruction builtins). Common BLISS ' just avoids those.  Nothing surprising.      --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:28:03 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer1 Message-ID: <nDYUf.5300$fI4.674@news.cpqcorp.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:  E > Of course, it should also be rewritten in BLISS-11 so that it could B > actually be used to bootstrap itself.  How does that sound for a
 > project? >  > bill >   < It won't fit. That is why it was never native on the PDP-11.    B People tried.  I'm not sure if anything tried to come up with the E overlay file for TKB, but I'm guessing it would be nasty enough such  I that TKB would run for 6 months or so.  And once linked, I'm guessing it  A would rattle your RL01/RK05/whatever-you-have apart for even the   smallest .BLI file.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:37:05 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer< Message-ID: <lw_Uf.7259$tN3.5831@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>  I re:  The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer"  ISBN 0-9770866-0-7  E As a someone who's been focused on system management, performance and F tuning, this announcment I'm happy to see this announcment here.  It's? targeted at a specific group, from a reputable vendor.  Product G announcements and patch notices for VMS systems should be welcome here.   + In other words, "me too" Zane, David, Bill.    --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:48i98sFke72cU1@individual.net... 8 > In article <44236E2B.67B65B84@neoasrptahmlnionwk.net>,D > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: > > Mns Rullgrd wrote: > >>  > >> healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > >>0 > >> > In comp.os.vms <mru@inprovide.com> wrote:E > >> >> "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com>  writes:  > >> > > >> >> [snip spam]  > >> >L > >> >> Please stop this spamming.  I used to point people looking for AlphaE > >> >> hardware in your direction.  I will never do it again.  I can K > >> >> understand that basing a business on selling Alpha parts is getting K > >> >> increasingly difficult, but this does not give any right whatsoever  toG > >> >> post spam to Usenet.  One more of these and I'll report you for  abuse. > >> >H > >> > Good grief.  Calm down, about the only thing David posts for saleH > >> > these days are things that are of interest to Hobbyists.  In thisI > >> > case he is posting something that is of interest to more than just I > >> > hobbyists, and I for one am glad he did.  This book sounds like it D > >> > is just the sort of thing that I could really use.  Hopefully- > >> > someone will post a review of it soon.  > >>J > >> Makes no difference if it's useful to someone.  It's advertising, andF > >> advertising doesn't belong here.  It belongs in the *.marketplace > >> groups. > > > > > Is it the cross-posting that's got your undies in a bunch? > > K > > I'll have to vote with Zane on this one. Get a grip, chill out. We need J > > c.o.v. to be a "one stop shopping" source for all things VMS, and thatI > > includes books, hardware, software, advice, etc. For some folks - not K > > just hobbyists - this and openvms.org are their only source of support.  > > I > > How many c.o.v.'ers have ever even HEARD of the *.marketplace groups?  > > K > > ...and since Islandco *IS* the *ONLY* one we soliciting here (on c.o.v. K > > at least for VMS related stuff, can't say about c.o.l.a. as I only lurk : > > there on occasion), I don't see that there's an issue. > > E > > I suppose next we'll see complaints about Sue posting new product  > > announcements from HP... > >  > J > Let it go people.  He's a linux weenie.  I am sure his biggest objection > was to it being about VMS. >  > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 14:57:25 -0800- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application DeveloperB Message-ID: <1143241045.050673.33820@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Andy Bustamante wrote:K > re:  The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer"  > ISBN 0-9770866-0-7 > G > As a someone who's been focused on system management, performance and H > tuning, this announcment I'm happy to see this announcment here.  It'sA > targeted at a specific group, from a reputable vendor.  Product I > announcements and patch notices for VMS systems should be welcome here.  > - > In other words, "me too" Zane, David, Bill.  >  > --    F The question of "Where can I find out about OpenVMS" comes up so oftenF that this post is *very* on topic in c.o.v., BUT, consider if the post< had been titled: "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be a Linux Application Developer"  E Might have looked like Spam, maybe? Shouldn't have been posted to the  linux group.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:07:54 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer9 Message-ID: <WoydnZ1ukZH8OLnZnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    John Reagan wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  >> >>J >> What is Common BLISS?  Isn't it bad enough that I already know there isK >> BLISS-11, BLISS-16 and BLISS-64 and I have been led to believe that none / >> of them are compatable at the source level!!  >>   >> bill  >> >  > J > Each BLISS variant often has architecture-specific builtins or features J > (like access to REGISTERs or single-instruction builtins). Common BLISS ) > just avoids those.  Nothing surprising.  >  >   H What about the BLISS compiler that targetted I guess x86?  Wasn't there I such for supporting a Fortran product, and what would have been used for  % RDB on windoz or something like that?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 01:16:09 +1100 1 From: Terry Collins <newsonespam-spam@woa.com.au> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application DeveloperU Message-ID: <4423fffd$0$24114$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au>    Christopher Browne wrote:   B > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on aD > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into theC > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...   G Being completely irrelevant, but i once had the experience of being sys D admin on a project that involved overlaying an oracle system onto anA ISAM stock control system. It was really scary to be involved in. E Thankfully I was only a contractor and wisely left before the company  went belly up.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2006 16:56:21 -0800) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> $ Subject: This weeks Boot Camp UpdateC Message-ID: <1143248181.550118.233630@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Dear News Group,  F Here is this weeks boot camp update.  I figure this way everyone knows what is going on.    Registration Goal 200  Seats Committed 122 
 % full 61% Seats available 78 Registered 112 % of new attendees 37% % of repeat attendees 63%  Weeks until Boot Camp 8  Countries represented 12  . http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html     Warm Regards as always,    Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:48:32 -0500 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsonly@weaverconsulting.ca> ( Subject: Who's going to Montreal Seminar9 Message-ID: <Fr0Vf.7628$qX6.272011@news20.bellglobal.com>   A Just wondering who I might get to meet at the Montreal Encompass  C seminar? JF? Syltrem? Anyone else from the area going to be there?     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:46:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Who's going to Montreal Seminar, Message-ID: <4424AEF2.49DF02A1@teksavvy.com>   Peter Weaver wrote:  > B > Just wondering who I might get to meet at the Montreal EncompassD > seminar? JF? Syltrem? Anyone else from the area going to be there?  E I haven't ruled out going.  Just have to go to Canadian Tire to get a ? roll of duct tape to put over my mouth for that day if I go :-)   B (and probably a foam coated suit to soften the baseball bat blows)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.167 ************************