1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 27 Mar 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 171       Contents:< Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs ... "intended behavior"< Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs ... "intended behavior" Re: fax software open vms   Re: Layered-Products CD question Re: old uVAX needs a home  Re: old uVAX needs a home * Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. RE: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS Re: RMS With C++G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer B This is sad...Paul Flaherty (creator of AltaVista at Digital) dies/ Re: VMS Securing Delivery - Just Ask The Vendor   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:52:53 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) E Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs ... "intended behavior" ( Message-ID: <e07ghk$g1c$2@pcls4.std.com>  % hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   b >In article <48j0gqFismv8U1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:I >:Wouldn't it be more reasonable to allow "full" backups (i.e., including G >:"protected subsystem" related issues) for all users possessing either I >:the SECURITY or BYPASS privilege? I suppose users granted such elevated 2 >:privileges are considered being "trusted users".  H >  What's implemented now with subsystem identifiers presently parallelsG >  how INSTALL and BACKUP operate -- BACKUP doesn't propogate along the 1 >  image privileges or image settings, of course.   H >  What you posit is likely feasible, but it's rather more work for eachH >  of the ACE operations involved, and there can be a whole lot of thoseI >  that arise underneath the typical BACKUP operation.  The code involved H >  here would likely also have to look at the target disk (to see if theD >  subsystem identifiers are enabled on the device), which makes theC >  requirements yet more interesting -- and if we were to cache the B >  information somewhere, we'd tend to have to manage it when the F >  security settings on the target change "in flight".   Stripping the$ >  identifier is safe and effective.  J Sounds like security through obscurity to me.  (and we know how well that H works!)  Instead of a privileged user being able to create a backup withJ those ACEs via the BACKUP command, he can create a backup with those ACEs F via the BACKUP command plus some DCL or a program to add them back in.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2006 22:04:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: BACKUP does not restore all ACEs ... "intended behavior" 3 Message-ID: <RE2YTvZEyTUF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <e07ghk$g1c$2@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:  L > Sounds like security through obscurity to me.  (and we know how well that J > works!)  Instead of a privileged user being able to create a backup withL > those ACEs via the BACKUP command, he can create a backup with those ACEs H > via the BACKUP command plus some DCL or a program to add them back in.  H Certainly it is not intended to be an absolute bar to the system managerE from doing something.  It is intended to prevent _accidentally_ doing " something that could be dangerous.  I This brings to mind the first great non-backward-compatibility DCL syntax D change I remember.  The default for Backup was changed to /NOREWIND,C figuring that people mistakenly using extra tape was more palatable - that people mistakenly erasing their backups.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2006 18:42:01 -0800* From: "intertrad0" <welcome@intertrade.cc>" Subject: Re: fax software open vmsC Message-ID: <1143427320.980939.268970@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi Neil ! I think you should have a look at % http://www.activefax-distribution.com  Best regards from Switzerland  Ernest   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2006 16:00:26 -0800. From: "Schnootling" <chuckmoore55@hotmail.com>) Subject: Re: Layered-Products CD question C Message-ID: <1143417626.370379.191880@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi Ian,   
 Found it.  Thanks for the assistance, Chuck    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:03:55 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> " Subject: Re: old uVAX needs a home0 Message-ID: <BKCdnQnpnJRSkrrZRVn-ug@comcast.com>   Beach Runner wrote:    >  >  > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  >> gl@decadence.it wrote:  >>F >>> Il Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:16:22 -0500, Richard B. Gilbert ha scritto: >>> J >>>> Some of them are still desirable machines either as museum pieces or ? >>>> working machines.  Others probably belong in the dumpster.  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> Hello :) >>> 0 >>> *ANY* VAX is still a desiderable machine! :) >> >> >>J >> ANY????   I wouldn't have a MicroVAX 2000, even as a door stop!  Nor a E >> MicroVAX I.  Many of those early machines are of interest only to  # >> museums and maybe not even that.  >>J >> The VAX was a programmer's dream but it was a nightmare in silicon.  I F >> still have a VAXstation 4000/VLC and a MicroVAX 3100 but I haven't H >> booted either of them in years.  My Alpha's are so much faster. . . . >  > G > Back in the 80s, when I was a Deccie, I thought Dec should have GIVEN H > uVAX IIs to every school in America.  Put terminals on every teachers I > desk, an LN03 (maybe an LN01?), and teachers would have had a place to  F > write lesson plans, keep records, print quality handouts, have mail,! > phone, and become VMS literate.  > G > These teachers would have built the standard for VMS, and the future  > > would have been VMS oriented. Nothing could have stopped it. > J > Similarly, Ed Services should have let any professor take courses for a J > nominal fee.  They would then have taught VMS, and again, nothing could  > have stopped it. >  > It is so sad.   H DEC did give some very deep educational discounts; my employer in those I days (Princeton University) was one of the many recipients.  This is not   where DEC fell down.  = It was asshole policies like making layered product licenses  H non-transferrable, making the BI bus closed and proprietary, being made F to look foolish when Emulex discovered that they could peel a BI chip E off a small traded in DEC memory board and resell it on a big Emulex  E memory board and DEC couldn't do a thing to stop them.  It was being  F among the last to adopt SCSI, 2000% markups, the failure to recognize F that computers were becoming a commodity, repeated failures in the PC I market, etc,etc.  Remember the DEC Rainbow that couldn't format it's own  F floopy disks when machines from any other maker could?  Remember when E every new machine had a new and unique case design, a new and unique  D power supply, new and unique mounting hardware for the disk drives? G There were once about 20 different models of the RZ26; the differences  H were about the same number of different ways to mount them in the case! F   I suppose you could call it engineering gone mad plus no management  worthy of the name.   H  From sometime in the early to middle 1980's DEC ceased leading the way D into the future and was being dragged, kicking and screaming.  "The H Suicide of Digital Equipment Corporation" is a long, long litany indeed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:01:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: old uVAX needs a home, Message-ID: <4427396A.E8A5396B@teksavvy.com>   "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: I >  From sometime in the early to middle 1980's DEC ceased leading the way E > into the future and was being dragged, kicking and screaming.  "The J > Suicide of Digital Equipment Corporation" is a long, long litany indeed.  H This seems to match success going to DEC's head and DEC deciding that itB would have to compete against IBM mainframes and DEC began to hire@ ex-IBMers in the hopes of giving DEC more and an IBM mentality.   H So DEC got infected with the same mentality that almost brought down IBM completely in the early 1990s.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:30:36 GMT - From: D Gillbilly <gillbilly@ns.sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 8 Message-ID: <oi5e229ljvdgpmthl5k5k4u5m2kq0pequ7@4ax.com>  * Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  C I believe that in order for me to first secure the internet, I must " first protect my electronic house.  D I believe business and personal costs as a whole could be reduced asE more computers cooperate in a common open internet security protocol.   D I believe that HP already has most of the technology needed to buildF an OpenVMS based computer that could enable excellent security for theC home user and provide a solid foundation on which to build this new  internet protocol.  F In addition to making J. Everybody's electronic castle their fortress, I also see additional benefits.   ' - increased hardware and software sales 4 - hardware independence (Alpha, VAX, IA64, Emulator)F - provides a robust development environment that can be used to enable this new strategy D - provides an already competent community of professionals to act as stewards of this new initiative @ - provides a safe playground for the next generation of computer visionaries 7 - provides a better mechanism to deploy secure services   > HP, will you lead the world towards an era of true trustworthy
 computing.  C HP, please, build me an easy to use box that I can use to secure my  home?   + HP, please, just imagine the possibilities.   & There, I have asked. I can do no more.   Maybe someone else can help.   Is anyone else even curious?      Duane Gillespie    Dartmouth    Nova Scotia     C Since there is currently no computer that could do what I have been : trying to describe, I must end this story here. I call it: How I would sell VMS  ( If I could only think of a sequel... :-)   maybe...   how VMS secures the world    or     safe cooperative computing   or  F cognitive computing for the little guy (see cognitive radio for ideas, thanks Sci Amer march 2006)    or     ...   2 It's all science fiction to the common guy anyway.  F To the members of this newsgroup, I apologize for annoying you. I knowD I was trying to sell something. And what I wanted to sell was VMS. IB didn't know what to do, so I wrote something. And I posted in thisB newsgroup for possible peer review and to see if it holds up under# public scrutiny. It's just an idea.    I am not angry anymore... E ... I'll become a lurker again, and I promise I won't spam this group  anymore.   peace         ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:54:07 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB82650B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: D Gillbilly [mailto:gillbilly@ns.sympatico.ca]=20  > Sent: March 26, 2006 4:31 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 > Subject: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  >=20, > Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS >=20E > I believe that in order for me to first secure the internet, I must $ > first protect my electronic house. >=20F > I believe business and personal costs as a whole could be reduced asG > more computers cooperate in a common open internet security protocol.  >=20F > I believe that HP already has most of the technology needed to buildH > an OpenVMS based computer that could enable excellent security for theE > home user and provide a solid foundation on which to build this new  > internet protocol. >=20
 [snip ...]   Duane,  * You might be interested in these articles:  : Smart House and OpenVMS: (great stuff from Aaron Sakovich)H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/smarthouse1. html   Other hobbyist articles:  H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/grad_student html    H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/knowledge_st
 orage.html   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:06:47 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <PNidnUKcXo0y1LrZRVn-jw@bresnan.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----7 >>From: D Gillbilly [mailto:gillbilly@ns.sympatico.ca]   >>Sent: March 26, 2006 4:31 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 >>Subject: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  >>, >>Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS >>E >>I believe that in order for me to first secure the internet, I must $ >>first protect my electronic house. >>F >>I believe business and personal costs as a whole could be reduced asG >>more computers cooperate in a common open internet security protocol.  >>F >>I believe that HP already has most of the technology needed to buildH >>an OpenVMS based computer that could enable excellent security for theE >>home user and provide a solid foundation on which to build this new  >>internet protocol. >> >  > [snip ...] >  > Duane, > , > You might be interested in these articles: > < > Smart House and OpenVMS: (great stuff from Aaron Sakovich)J > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/smarthouse1. > html >  > Other hobbyist articles: > J > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/grad_student > html >  > J > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/knowledge_st > orage.html >    But why not an OpenVMS PC??   + I think that is what the OP was asking for.  And it can be done.    --   Where are we going?   And why am I in this handbasket?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2006 20:41:53 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1143434513.148713.289880@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>   E J. Everyone doesn't understand security.  Unfortunately, the unwashed G masses don't have as much understanding about the tool in front of them F as you think.  They don't understand how firewalls work, or how bufferE overflow exploits comprmise their system.  They simply do not get it, 6 no matter how many times you lead that horse to water.  F They turn it on, play their games, IM their friends, surf the web, andF delete their spam.  You want to put John Q. Public as a system managerF of his own OpenVMS system - the very same people that believe that the@ retractable tray is a high-tech drink coaster?  Can HP afford toC support a Customer Support Call Center for this, when you get calls 9 from people who you tell to type "DIR FRED" actually type F "DIRSPACEFRED"?  Yeah, the hard part about walking Joe Sixpack throughG a conversational boot is convincing him that the chevron prompt doesn't , have anything to do with a gasoline station.  F Truth be told, for the most part, the NT Kernel (which is VERY similarE to OpenVMS for obvious reasons) is pretty secure - it's all the other F Windows crud and everyone's an Admin that messes it up.  It takes more: than the O/S to have a secure system, it also takes secureE applications, and a security-minded userbase.  So, just how much more C secure is OpenVMS going to honestly be when Bubba's PHD$Q_PRIVMSK =  0xffffffff, 0xffffffff?   G No, the question isn't why not an OpenVMS PC, but rather do you want to 9 screw up OpenVMS hampering it with an excessive amount of @ anti-stupidity features and Clippy-esque eye-candy so Cletus TheG Slackjawed Yokel can use it?  By the time you finished that task, you'd  have... well... Windows.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:45:50 -0500 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: RMS With C++ * Message-ID: <vQEVf.863$C85.466@dukeread10>   Dillon Amburgey wrote:F > I am a OpenVMS newbie, and I like the OS very much. I have a limitedH > knowledge of BASIC, so I would like to be able to write programs usingI > RMS with C++. The problem is that I cannot seem to find any information I > about this on Google, and I am not actually sure that this is possible.   > Could anyone offer any advice?  > As others have said: you just call the RMS functions from C++.  : I will assume that you want to use index-sequential files,- because else ordinary C/C++ IO would be fine.   = Below are a small example. Not a particular good one, but ...    Arne  8 --------------------------------------------------------   #include <stdio.h> #include <string.h>    #include <ssdef.h> #include <rms.h> #include <starlet.h>   typedef char KEY[6]; typedef struct {       int a;       int b;       int c;  } DAT;   #define KEYSIZ sizeof(KEY) #define DATSIZ sizeof(DAT) #define RECSIZ KEYSIZ+DATSIZ   struct FAB dbfab;  struct RAB dbrab;    void db_open(char *fnm)  {      long stat;     struct XABKEY dbxab;     dbfab = cc$rms_fab;      dbfab.fab$l_fna = fnm;"     dbfab.fab$b_fns = strlen(fnm);      dbfab.fab$b_org = FAB$C_IDX;      dbfab.fab$b_rfm = FAB$C_FIX;     dbfab.fab$b_rat = FAB$M_CR;       dbfab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_CIF;     dbfab.fab$w_mrs = RECSIZ; 8     dbfab.fab$b_fac = FAB$M_GET | FAB$M_PUT | FAB$M_UPD;%     dbfab.fab$l_xab = (char *)&dbxab;      dbxab = cc$rms_xabkey;      dbxab.xab$b_dtp = XAB$C_STG;     dbxab.xab$w_pos0 = 0;      dbxab.xab$b_ref = 0;     dbxab.xab$b_siz0 = KEYSIZ;"     stat = sys$create(&dbfab,0,0);     dbfab.fab$l_xab = 0;     dbrab = cc$rms_rab;      dbrab.rab$l_fab = &dbfab;       dbrab.rab$b_rac = RAB$C_KEY;#     stat = sys$connect(&dbrab,0,0);      return;  }    void db_put(KEY key,DAT *dat)  {      long stat;     char buf[RECSIZ];      memcpy(buf,key,KEYSIZ); "     memcpy(buf+KEYSIZ,dat,DATSIZ);     dbrab.rab$l_rbf = buf;     dbrab.rab$w_rsz = RECSIZ;      stat = sys$put(&dbrab,0,0);      return;  }    int db_get(KEY key,DAT *dat) {      long stat;     char buf[RECSIZ];      dbrab.rab$l_kbf = key;     dbrab.rab$b_ksz = KEYSIZ;      dbrab.rab$b_krf = 0;     dbrab.rab$l_ubf = buf;     dbrab.rab$w_usz = RECSIZ;      stat = sys$get(&dbrab,0,0);      if(stat&1) {%        memcpy(dat,buf+KEYSIZ,DATSIZ);         return 1;     } else {        return 0;     }  }    void db_close()  {      long stat;&     stat = sys$disconnect(&dbrab,0,0);!     stat = sys$close(&dbfab,0,0);      return;  }   
 int main() {      KEY key;     DAT dat;     db_open("test1.db");      memcpy(key,"AAAAAA",KEYSIZ);     dat.a = 11;      dat.b = 12;      dat.c = 13;      db_put(key,&dat);       memcpy(key,"BBBBBB",KEYSIZ);     dat.a = 21;      dat.b = 22;      dat.c = 23;      db_put(key,&dat);       memcpy(key,"CCCCCC",KEYSIZ);     dat.a = 31;      dat.b = 32;      dat.c = 33;      db_put(key,&dat);       memcpy(key,"BBBBBB",KEYSIZ);     if(db_get(key,&dat)) {4        printf("found %d %d %d\n",dat.a,dat.b,dat.c);     } else {        printf("not found\n");      }       memcpy(key,"DDDDDD",KEYSIZ);     if(db_get(key,&dat)) {4        printf("found %d %d %d\n",dat.a,dat.b,dat.c);     } else {        printf("not found\n");      }      db_close();      return SS$_NORMAL; }    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:41:42 -0500 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer* Message-ID: <npHVf.872$C85.417@dukeread10>   Dr. Dweeb wrote:F > MySql out of the box is not that good actually (at least last time IB > looked).  It needs addons to du proper stuff and is in many ways > releatively primitive. > ! > Its redeeming feature is price.   3 I have never used MySQL on VMS, but some on Windows 
 and Linux.  3 Oracle and DB2 may not need to be particular afraid . of MySQL, because it is still missing a lot in enterprise features.  * But for those needing less than enterprise. level, then it is a nice database. It has what+ you need. Very few bugs. Easy to find tools + for it. Easy to find people with experience  with it.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:14:23 -0500 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer* Message-ID: <0UHVf.873$C85.620@dukeread10>   Alexander Schreiber wrote:+ > It also doesn't believe in data integrity    ????  = You can choose between speed (MyISAM) and integrity (InnoDB).   F >                                           and has very dubious ideas/ > about SQL and what a RDBMS is supposed to do.    4.1 added subqueries.   ? 5.0 added views (and stored proceduresd which I would not use).    What more do you want ?    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2006 20:39:49 -0800' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application DeveloperB Message-ID: <1143434389.076024.33150@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Christopher Browne wrote: O > Clinging to sanity, "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> mumbled into her beard:  > > davidc@montagar.com wrote:G > >> >From the description, this looks like an excellent book for a new M > >> OpenVMS Programmer.  Thanks for the effort in putting this bok together.  > > J > > It does look interesting. As a hobbyist I wish I could justify the $90? > > - but coincidentally my day job is currently building MySQL H > > applications on other operating systems. It's fascinating that MySQLI > > has made it to VMS and is considered a useful component there (too) - , > > whether one approves of MySQL or not ;-) > B > I have a hard time fathoming how MySQL would be of interest on aD > platform that has a full-fledged ISAM system, RMS, *built into theC > operating system*, but I suppose there are all types out there...   B A very interesting page which covers a variety of databases on VMS! (including MySQL) is Neil Rieck's 8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/rms_rdb_notes.html   > --' > output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org") , > http://linuxdatabases.info/info/rdbms.htmlH > "I heard that if you play  the Windows CD  backward, you get a satanicH > message. But that's  nothing compared to  when you play it forward: It) > installs Windows...." -- G. R. Gaudreau    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2006 13:36:12 -0800) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> K Subject: This is sad...Paul Flaherty (creator of AltaVista at Digital) dies C Message-ID: <1143408972.457093.111070@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Mar 24, 6:15 PM EST   & Paul Flaherty, AltaVista creator, dies   By JORDAN ROBERTSON  Associated Press Writer    More Technology Video   C SAN FRANCISCO     (AP) -- Paul A. Flaherty, a computer engineer who  helpedF create the pioneering AltaVista online search engine, has died. He was 42.   F Flaherty died March 16 of a heart attack at his home in Belmont, about< 20 miles south of San Francisco, family members said Friday.  B Flaherty came up with the idea of indexing Web pages that made theE AltaVista search engine one of the most popular Internet search tools  in the mid-1990s.   D "He was such a warm and loving man, and he was exceptionally smart,"E his brother, Michael, said Friday. "It's just uncanny to find someone = with that much intellectual power but that much warmth, too."   
 Advertisement   F Flaherty was working as a research engineer at Digital Equipment Corp.G in Palo Alto when he teamed up with two other staff researchers in 1995 " to develop AltaVista's technology.  B The Web site was made public in December 1995 and within weeks wasG processing several million searches a day. It was spun off from Digital ' Equipment as a private company in 1999.   E Flaherty served as director for technical strategy at AltaVista until D leaving in 2000 to work in management consulting. At the time of hisC death, he was vice president for product development at TalkPlus, a 2 telecommunications software company in Menlo Park.  F Born in Milwaukee and raised in Minnesota, Flaherty earned a doctorateD in electrical engineering in 1994 from Stanford University and neverD quite shook his Midwest roots despite his success in Silicon Valley, Michael Flaherty said.   Buy AP Photo Reprints   B "I never saw him taking to the more cutthroat lifestyle in Silicon Valley," his brother said.  E He is survived by his wife, Natasha Flaherty of Belmont; his parents, > James Sr. and Ruth Flaherty of Fargo, N.D.; and four brothers.  < A funeral mass and burial is scheduled for Tuesday in Fargo.  E ) 2006 The Associated Press.  All rights reserved.  This material may D not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.  Learn more about our Privacy Policy .   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:36:34 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: VMS Securing Delivery - Just Ask The Vendor/ Message-ID: <Z6udnSJczNM1cbvZRVn-tw@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:1 > In article <gKqdnQHG4pW8rLvZRVn-jw@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >> >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>>  >>> E >>>>Is it just me or do others find this much more annoying than Dave   >>>>announcing the new VMS book? >>>> >>>>bill >>>>F >>>>In article <1143306121.062542.79000@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,C >>>>    "d_gillbilly@hotmail.com" <d_gillbilly@hotmail.com> writes:  >>>> >>>> >>>>>Just ask the questions! >>>>>  >>>>>Mr Vendor,  >>>>> 6 >>>>>I know business is important, but so is my house. >>>>>  >>> 
 >>><big snip>  >>> I >>>It's MORE annoying because it's not clear, to me anyway, what all the   >>>drum beating is about.  >>>  >>H >>His VMS work is going away.  It's an initial reaction to pain.  He'll " >>get over it, the rest of us did. >>E >>How can it be 'more' annoying than something that was not annoying?  >> >>Bill gave us a false delima. >  > G > Don't get me wrong, I most certainly did not find Dave's announcement J > annoying.  But it elicited at least one complainer and yet this repeatedJ > (numerous times!) meaningless rant seems to be accepted without comment.G > I guess c.o.v people are just a lot more tolerant than linux weenies.  >  > bill >    >   G It's more likely that more than a few remember going through the same,  I though possibly a bit less vocal about it.  You're usually more tolerant  3 of something if you've also suffered the same pain.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.171 ************************