1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 27 Mar 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 172       Contents:0 Re: "Threads are crap in inner-mode!" - Discuss.0 Re: "Threads are crap in inner-mode!" - Discuss.% Re: A nice enhancement to SHOW SYSTEM ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ) Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5 ( Re: Converting SYSDEVICE from ODS-2 to 5 Re: F$FAO (!%D) & Week Number  Re: F$FAO (!%D) & Week Number  Re: F$FAO (!%D) & Week Number ) How to only look at the local MX database  Re: Intel to sell itanium?  Re: Layered-Products CD question  OpenVMS documentation and Google. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS qman$master.dat  Re: qman$master.dat  Re: qman$master.dat  Re: qman$master.dat  Re: RMS With C++0 SAP small business solutions now run on OpenVMS!4 Re: SAP small business solutions now run on OpenVMS! Re: Special MARCH 06 Deal - Re: strange behaviour: toasted network cards? - Re: strange behaviour: toasted network cards? $ Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout
 THANK YOU.G Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer $ Re: Where do DSA devices come from ?$ Re: Where do DSA devices come from ?$ Re: Where do DSA devices come from ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:01:21 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>9 Subject: Re: "Threads are crap in inner-mode!" - Discuss. 2 Message-ID: <e089l1$vl4$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  5 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message  ) news:md2dnQgNdKtQvrvZRVn-jg@libcom.com...   Z > Before we get carried away with all the multiple tasks hype, do keep in mind that a CPU  > at best runs one process.   D That used to be true but chips like chat are obsolescent these days.E It's getting harder to find a mainstream one that isn't either SMT or 4 dual core  (excluding low power and embedded types).   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 07:08:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: "Threads are crap in inner-mode!" - Discuss. 3 Message-ID: <stWcWTR0Viee@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <e089l1$vl4$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:  > 7 > "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message  + > news:md2dnQgNdKtQvrvZRVn-jg@libcom.com...  > [ >> Before we get carried away with all the multiple tasks hype, do keep in mind that a CPU   >> at best runs one process. > F > That used to be true but chips like chat are obsolescent these days.G > It's getting harder to find a mainstream one that isn't either SMT or 6 > dual core  (excluding low power and embedded types).  > Then that chip has two CPUs, and Dave's statement still holds.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 09:52:26 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: A nice enhancement to SHOW SYSTEMC Message-ID: <1143481946.734211.312320@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   K > So you want /FONT=(NewTimesRoman, 9, Regular).   The /WIDTH command would  > specify inches - like 8.5   : A long time from now, in an OpenVMS Galaxy far, far, away:  A Perhaps someday they'll even add astronomical units, light years, ? parsecs, etc., once those TBI (TBI = TIA for To Be Invented) 3D 6 holographic projectors are able to achieve such sizes.  B Just imagine a huge flashing neon-red sign visible from the entire$ solar system reading something like:  ( "Coming soon to a star system near you!"  E (Actually that sounds a lot more like Douglas Adams's Hitchhiker book  than it does like Star Wars.)    :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 08:52:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 53 Message-ID: <XGYJQBUShcec@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <44246ACB.737906F5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > F > Question: if the system is in a quiet period and no writes are beingF > performed while backup is running, what circumstances would yield to > corruption of files ?   H    example:  an application that's using Fortran I/O buffers and hasn't     flushed them.  J    Of course Fortran isn't the only language which supports I/O buffering.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:06 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5. Message-ID: <SPTVf.5348$Bs.7@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) In article <ops6w9yhnqzgicya@hyrrokkin>,  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   L >I would like to put another drive in a 7.3-1 (will be up graded to 8.2, 3  N >also) and create a duplicate of the system disk on the new one, so will the  % >following create a new bootable disk  > $ >$ init/structure=5 NewDisk NewLabel  9 The actual INIT command used in OpenVMS installations is:   I     $ initialize /system /limit /headers-=150000 /structure='ods_level' - .         'ods_vol' 'target_disk' 'target_label'  ) I presume you can figure out the symbols.   F You can also just backup to the new disk and allow the OpenVMS upgrade) procedure to convert it to ODS-5 for you.   7 >$ backup/image/ignore=interlock/verify OldDidk NewDisk                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  J Remember that "/ignore=interlock" means that the integrity and consistencyO of the output is NOT guaranteed.  I would NOT do this for a real system disk!        --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:58:09 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 51 Message-ID: <lYTVf.5349$Bs.1029@news.cpqcorp.net>   1 In article <2ridnTzmcd2KArnZRVn-qQ@comcast.com>,  5 "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  ..D >What DO you do when you can't do a standalone backup and don't use H >/IGNORE=INTERLOCK?  There are files on the system disk that are always 9 >open and some are files you would not want to lose.  ...  ..F >There are systems that are supposed to run 24x7.  How should they be 
 >backed up?     C The answer to this question ALWAYS requires very specific knowledge - of the application and how it is implemented.   F You can use a database management system that supports on-line backup.  F If you can force a brief quiescent point (quiet point) when all accessI to the "open" files is guaranteed to be stopped, then technique can work:   0 (1) Make the disk be a single-volume shadow set.F (2) Add a second volume.  (or make it a 2-volume set and add a third.)B (3) Wait untill volume shadowing "catches up" on the added volume. (4) Force a quiescent point.# (5) Remove the added shadow volume.   (6) Release the quiescent point.. (7) Backup the removed volume at your liesure.A     (You should change its LABEL so that DISK$lable logical names ,      won't conflict and cause you problems.)   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:25:56 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE  from ODS-2 to 5: Message-ID: <la6dnWBTx6eIj7XZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Charlie Hammond wrote:3 > In article <2ridnTzmcd2KArnZRVn-qQ@comcast.com>,  7 > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  > .. > E >>What DO you do when you can't do a standalone backup and don't use  I >>/IGNORE=INTERLOCK?  There are files on the system disk that are always  : >>open and some are files you would not want to lose.  ... >  > .. > G >>There are systems that are supposed to run 24x7.  How should they be   >>backed up?   >  > E > The answer to this question ALWAYS requires very specific knowledge / > of the application and how it is implemented.  > H > You can use a database management system that supports on-line backup. > H > If you can force a brief quiescent point (quiet point) when all accessK > to the "open" files is guaranteed to be stopped, then technique can work:  > 2 > (1) Make the disk be a single-volume shadow set.H > (2) Add a second volume.  (or make it a 2-volume set and add a third.)D > (3) Wait untill volume shadowing "catches up" on the added volume. > (4) Force a quiescent point.% > (5) Remove the added shadow volume. " > (6) Release the quiescent point.0 > (7) Backup the removed volume at your liesure.C >     (You should change its LABEL so that DISK$lable logical names . >      won't conflict and cause you problems.) >    Charlie,  F We were talking about backing up a SYSTEM disk.  Assume that there is E nothing much on it but VMS, and layered products.   There are files,  I such as SYS$MANAGER:ACCOUNTNG.DAT, SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL.DAT, etc, that  I are always open.  The question was how do you back up a system disk when  H you can't shut down the system.   /IGNORE_INTERLOCK has been blasted as F being likely to cause file corruption, so I was asking how to back up C the system disk when I can't shut the system down for a standalone  G backup.  I've been using /IGNORE_INTERLOCK in such cases for more than  H twenty years without a seeing a problem but, if there's a better way, I  want to know about it.  G Assume that no volume shadowing license is available; just vanilla VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 09:46:52 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>1 Subject: Re: Converting SYSDEVICE from ODS-2 to 5 C Message-ID: <1143481612.142781.312100@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Charlie Hammond wrote:4 > > In article <2ridnTzmcd2KArnZRVn-qQ@comcast.com>,9 > > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  > > .. > > F > >>What DO you do when you can't do a standalone backup and don't useJ > >>/IGNORE=INTERLOCK?  There are files on the system disk that are always< > >>open and some are files you would not want to lose.  ... > >  > > .. > > H > >>There are systems that are supposed to run 24x7.  How should they be > >>backed up? > >  > > G > > The answer to this question ALWAYS requires very specific knowledge 1 > > of the application and how it is implemented.  > > J > > You can use a database management system that supports on-line backup. > > J > > If you can force a brief quiescent point (quiet point) when all accessM > > to the "open" files is guaranteed to be stopped, then technique can work:  > > 4 > > (1) Make the disk be a single-volume shadow set.J > > (2) Add a second volume.  (or make it a 2-volume set and add a third.)F > > (3) Wait untill volume shadowing "catches up" on the added volume.  > > (4) Force a quiescent point.' > > (5) Remove the added shadow volume. $ > > (6) Release the quiescent point.2 > > (7) Backup the removed volume at your liesure.E > >     (You should change its LABEL so that DISK$lable logical names 0 > >      won't conflict and cause you problems.) > >  > 
 > Charlie, > G > We were talking about backing up a SYSTEM disk.  Assume that there is F > nothing much on it but VMS, and layered products.   There are files,J > such as SYS$MANAGER:ACCOUNTNG.DAT, SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL.DAT, etc, thatJ > are always open.  The question was how do you back up a system disk whenI > you can't shut down the system.   /IGNORE_INTERLOCK has been blasted as G > being likely to cause file corruption, so I was asking how to back up D > the system disk when I can't shut the system down for a standaloneH > backup.  I've been using /IGNORE_INTERLOCK in such cases for more thanI > twenty years without a seeing a problem but, if there's a better way, I  > want to know about it. > I > Assume that no volume shadowing license is available; just vanilla VMS.   G Volume shadowing doesn't solve the problem. Files on the removed member G may still be in an inconsistent state. If you have a system disk shadow G set you can change SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 0, WRITE CURRENT, and reboot with E an unshadowed disk. You can then back up the idle member. Then reboot F with SHADOW_SYS_DISK set to 1 and manually add the idle member back toF the shadow set. That should work with only two brief interruptions forF booting and a copy operation. But just removing a member from a systemF disk shadow set still has the potential for inconsistent files, though< this happens over a much, much shorter interval of time thanF /IGNORE=INTERLOCK on a live system disk so I would therefore expect it to be less "dangerous".    AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 08:31:45 -0800 From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>& Subject: Re: F$FAO (!%D) & Week NumberB Message-ID: <1143477105.494924.51760@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  B When I use the ISO rule about the week containing the 1st Thursday
 being week 1, = I get that 31-Dec-2009 and 1-Jan-2010 are in Week 53 of 2009.   4 For 31-Dec-2010 and 1-Jan-2011 I get week 52 of 2010  ; 1-Jan-2012 is on a Sunday, depending on how you define your E week(starting on Monday or Sunday), this is either in week 52 of 2011 G or week 1 of 2012.    The incredibly short command procedure calculates  it to be week 52 of 2011.    Robert Boyd    Graham Burley wrote:N > In article <4424B4F1.9050705@triumf.ca>, Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca> writes: >   > >    **** ALMOST CORRECT ***** > > R > >    This correctly gives 2010-12-31 as week 53 in year 2010.  The DECW calendarM > >    shows the following day as belonging to that same week, in other words M > >    2011-01-01 is in week 53 of Year 2010, but the above DCL routine shows 3 > >    2011-01-01 as being in week 52 of year 2010.  > J > Eh? My DECW$CALENDAR shows 31-Dec-2010 & 01-Jan-2011 as week 52 of 2010. >    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 18:57:49 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: F$FAO (!%D) & Week Number, Message-ID: <442835ad$1@news.langstoeger.at>  a In article <1143477105.494924.51760@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> writes: C >When I use the ISO rule about the week containing the 1st Thursday  >being week 1,> >I get that 31-Dec-2009 and 1-Jan-2010 are in Week 53 of 2009. > 5 >For 31-Dec-2010 and 1-Jan-2011 I get week 52 of 2010  > < >1-Jan-2012 is on a Sunday, depending on how you define yourF >week(starting on Monday or Sunday), this is either in week 52 of 2011H >or week 1 of 2012.    The incredibly short command procedure calculates >it to be week 52 of 2011.    And in my eyes, this is correct.  > Seeing the first day of the week as Sunday is the jewish view,4 while Monday as the first day is the christian view.B For the year 2011 you have to use the christian view, because with7 the jewish view the year must be well above 5000 or so. D btw: Doesn't ISO define which day is the first day of the week, too?   :-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:42:44 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com& Subject: Re: F$FAO (!%D) & Week NumberQ Message-ID: <OF7915B6B1.BACD6639-ON8525713E.00610238-8525713E.00614B94@metso.com>   D peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote on 03/27/2006 12:57:49 PM:  D > In article <1143477105.494924.51760@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,  > "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> writes:E > >When I use the ISO rule about the week containing the 1st Thursday  > >being week 1,@ > >I get that 31-Dec-2009 and 1-Jan-2010 are in Week 53 of 2009. > > 7 > >For 31-Dec-2010 and 1-Jan-2011 I get week 52 of 2010  > > > > >1-Jan-2012 is on a Sunday, depending on how you define yourH > >week(starting on Monday or Sunday), this is either in week 52 of 2011J > >or week 1 of 2012.    The incredibly short command procedure calculates > >it to be week 52 of 2011. > " > And in my eyes, this is correct. > @ > Seeing the first day of the week as Sunday is the Jewish view,6 > while Monday as the first day is the Christian view.D > For the year 2011 you have to use the Christian view, because with9 > the Jewish view the year must be well above 5000 or so.   @ Well the European calendars I've seen start with Monday, and the5 North American Calendars I've seen start with Sunday.   : Our work week starts Sunday.  We get paid Sunday-Saturday.  " This is not a religious arguement.  F > btw: Doesn't ISO define which day is the first day of the week, too? >  > :-)  >  > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 07:41:31 -0800  From: njklostermann@cbegroup.com2 Subject: How to only look at the local MX databaseA Message-ID: <1143474091.420499.9870@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C What I would like to do is set our OpenVMS Alphaserver to only send E mail to our local mail server.  On the internet we have a 2nd and 3rd G MX entry.  I would like VMS to ignore the 2nd & 3rd entry and just hold D mail in the TCP queue if the 1st entry is down.  I have tried to addG a host entry to the Local MX database, shut down our local mail server, B sent a test mail.  The message still goes out to our external mailC queue server.  So I assume it checks the local MX record, sees that D that server is down, then moves to the BIND MX database.  Is there a3 way to make the server ignore the BIND MX Database?      TCPIP> sho mx ourserver.com     /                               Local MX database   + Gate address     Preference       Gate name   / 10.0.0.5    5                MAIL.OURSERVER.COM     .                               BIND MX database    ( Server:          10.0.0.20    LINETMAIL1  + Gate address     Preference       Gate name   4 64.47.20.10      10               mail.OURSERVER.COM5 168.39.39.2      20               mail2.ourserver.com 5 168.29.20.3      30               mail3.ourserver.com    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 07:33:36 -0800- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> # Subject: Re: Intel to sell itanium? C Message-ID: <1143473616.823231.294140@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    Karsten Nyblad wrote:   G > > Is that really the case ? Can't chip design be done independantly ? L > > After all, Alpha was like that for a number of years and was still quite6 > > viable at the time Compaq/HP decided to murder it. > F > Sure, but it is becoming more and more difficult.  You do today, andE > that means that you would have to work closely together with a chip J > producer for the four years period it takes to develop a microprocessor.H >   The chip producer would have to tell the processor design team aboutG > their new process.  How many chip producers would be willing to share D > information about technology were they might not have had time for > applying for patents yet?  >   < I am not sure this is entirely accurate. When the fashion inG microprocessor design was to use the largess delivered by Moores Law to C build single cores of bewildering complexity and at ever escalating * clock speeds then you may have been right.  D But times have changed and the new reality is lots of simpler cores,D less emphasis on clock speed, ILP, multi-issue and branch prediction etc.  G The benefits of the access to advanced FABs are now more related to the D number of cores you can support per sq/mm and the power consumption.  B A good example of this is the Sun N1 processor, by far in away the< fastest module on the planet for WEB/Apps/Fileserver/TP typeC environments. From a performance perspective 2-4x the throughput of C anything else on the market for this kind of workload but delivered F earlier than the origional roadmaps from Sun suggested it would be and  in a relatively mature 90nm FAB.  E All indications are that its sucessor presumably called N2 which will D have 8 cores, 2 pipelines per core, 8 threads per core and decent FPG support and a modest 1.4 Ghz clock speed will also be early rather than 4 late, again in a relatively mature by then 65nm FAB.  D It would seem that the technique of designing a simple core and thenD essentially cut and pasting it across as much real estate as you canB afford in the FAB du jour is a much simpler and therefore less FABF dependent process than the search for greater and greater clock speed.  F A good example of this is Power6 which will rely in very bleeding edgeG FAB/process to push the clock speed envelope as far as possible. It may D appear in the same timeframe as N2 but assuming that it delivers theD perfomance improvments predicted for it and N2 does the same it willA struggle in the 1-8 way server market when compared with N2 based ) servers for TLP/PLP INT and FP workloads.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:04:36 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ) Subject: Re: Layered-Products CD question 1 Message-ID: <o2UVf.5350$Bs.5082@news.cpqcorp.net>   D In article <1143362071.307270.223820@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, " "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes:  ( >tcpip is on the vms operating system CD  E You can boot the kit and use the menu options to look at the products & on the CD; and also to install them --   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:38:42 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ) Subject: OpenVMS documentation and Google ) Message-ID: <op.s62weszgzgicya@hyrrokkin>   ' A recent post prompted me to Google for  edit "qman$master"   The first entry returned id to  < http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6017/6017pro_013.html  ; which no longer exists.  The page that comes up asks you to : go to some othe page, which it seems to me defeats Googles; bots that check for the existence of pages.  Alternatively, : maybe HP could do a better job of configuration management   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 02:14:18 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <VJadnX8cJZ-uDbrZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    davidc@montagar.com wrote:G > J. Everyone doesn't understand security.  Unfortunately, the unwashed I > masses don't have as much understanding about the tool in front of them H > as you think.  They don't understand how firewalls work, or how bufferG > overflow exploits comprmise their system.  They simply do not get it, 8 > no matter how many times you lead that horse to water. > H > They turn it on, play their games, IM their friends, surf the web, andH > delete their spam.  You want to put John Q. Public as a system managerH > of his own OpenVMS system - the very same people that believe that theB > retractable tray is a high-tech drink coaster?  Can HP afford toE > support a Customer Support Call Center for this, when you get calls ; > from people who you tell to type "DIR FRED" actually type H > "DIRSPACEFRED"?  Yeah, the hard part about walking Joe Sixpack throughI > a conversational boot is convincing him that the chevron prompt doesn't . > have anything to do with a gasoline station. > H > Truth be told, for the most part, the NT Kernel (which is VERY similarG > to OpenVMS for obvious reasons) is pretty secure - it's all the other H > Windows crud and everyone's an Admin that messes it up.  It takes more< > than the O/S to have a secure system, it also takes secureG > applications, and a security-minded userbase.  So, just how much more E > secure is OpenVMS going to honestly be when Bubba's PHD$Q_PRIVMSK =  > 0xffffffff, 0xffffffff?  > I > No, the question isn't why not an OpenVMS PC, but rather do you want to ; > screw up OpenVMS hampering it with an excessive amount of B > anti-stupidity features and Clippy-esque eye-candy so Cletus TheI > Slackjawed Yokel can use it?  By the time you finished that task, you'd  > have... well... Windows. >    Ok, I'll take a poke at this.   - First, I agree with all that's written above.   F But it assumes that Joe Sixpack will need to know how to administer a - VMS system.  What it that assumption changes?   D I have a friend with a very successful application package.  At his F customer sites there is usually nobody capable of administering a VMS G system.  A few do have IT people, but it's their choice, not mandatory.   I Everything on these application systems is menu driven and/or automated.  E   Even adding user accounts ia a menu option.  People at these sites   just do not see the '$' prompt.   E Now that application is rather non-trivial.  What about some simpler  E applications.  The home based internet appliance seems to be such an  G application.  How about an application that provides menus leading the  I user through any required customization?  Set-up screens that prompt for  C required information, such as e-mail addresses, ISP data, and such?   G Such would take a bit of thought, and perhaps more than a bit of work.  E But the potential customers would be a fairly large number.  Keep in  I mind that this 'box' won't actually do anything the users are interested  I   in.  They'd have PCs for their games, e-mail client, browser, and such.   ? Don't know that Joe Sixpack would spend much for such a system.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Mar 2006 12:58:19 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS + Message-ID: <48q5rbFlahhgU1@individual.net>   9 In article <VJadnX8cJZ-uDbrZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > H >                 The home based internet appliance seems to be such an I > application.  How about an application that provides menus leading the  K > user through any required customization?  Set-up screens that prompt for  E > required information, such as e-mail addresses, ISP data, and such?  > I > Such would take a bit of thought, and perhaps more than a bit of work.  G > But the potential customers would be a fairly large number.  Keep in  K > mind that this 'box' won't actually do anything the users are interested  K >   in.  They'd have PCs for their games, e-mail client, browser, and such.  > A > Don't know that Joe Sixpack would spend much for such a system.   F Why would he be willing to spend anything?  When he signs up for CableD or DSL he gets a box that already does all of it and for Joe SixpackF there is no customization needed at all.  My latest does nat, firewallE (pre-configured for passthru for all the popular games), wireless and E has a 3 port switch, all built-in.  Why would Joe Sixpack want to pay G extra for a VMS box?  And don't say security, because Joe Sixpack can't H even spell it.  The box he gets from his ISP does all he needs or wants.   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 06:47:06 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1143470826.907965.130410@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   U >Keep in mind that this 'box' won't actually do anything the users are interested in.   4 Okay, so exactly why would they be interested in it?  C >They'd have PCs for their games, e-mail client, browser, and such.   E But isn't that the point of the OpenVMS box?  If they still use a PC, G they are still vulnerable to threats via web/Active-X exploits, opening E malicious attachments, installing "smilies" with bundled spyware, and  more.   D Now, at the ISP side, OpenVMS makes more sense.  You want the systemD that authenticates the users, send/receives e-mail, hosts web pages,D etc to be secure - and you have staff that is security knowledgable.@ With MySQL/Perl/PHP/Apache on OpenVMS, this can positioned as anB attractive alternative.  After all, wouldn't an ISP want to have aC system that can survive DEFCON be their first-line defense of their 	 presence?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:32:50 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <MrWdnU4R0M2HjrXZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    davidc@montagar.com wrote:V >>Keep in mind that this 'box' won't actually do anything the users are interested in. >  > 6 > Okay, so exactly why would they be interested in it? >  > D >>They'd have PCs for their games, e-mail client, browser, and such. >  > G > But isn't that the point of the OpenVMS box?  If they still use a PC, I > they are still vulnerable to threats via web/Active-X exploits, opening G > malicious attachments, installing "smilies" with bundled spyware, and  > more.  > F > Now, at the ISP side, OpenVMS makes more sense.  You want the systemF > that authenticates the users, send/receives e-mail, hosts web pages,F > etc to be secure - and you have staff that is security knowledgable.B > With MySQL/Perl/PHP/Apache on OpenVMS, this can positioned as anD > attractive alternative.  After all, wouldn't an ISP want to have aE > system that can survive DEFCON be their first-line defense of their  > presence?  >   , Depends who's running the ISP.  Joe Sixpack?  I My experience is that most ISP's don't care.  They're like stockbrokers,  " up or down, they still make money.  C While stating that such an appliance is possible, you don't see me  A hurrying to develope such a product.  I agree that it won't sell.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:50:35 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <jM-dnff9I_V1u7XZ4p2dnA@bresnan.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote:G > J. Everyone doesn't understand security.  Unfortunately, the unwashed I > masses don't have as much understanding about the tool in front of them H > as you think.  They don't understand how firewalls work, or how bufferG > overflow exploits comprmise their system.  They simply do not get it, 8 > no matter how many times you lead that horse to water. > H > They turn it on, play their games, IM their friends, surf the web, andH > delete their spam.  You want to put John Q. Public as a system managerH > of his own OpenVMS system - the very same people that believe that theB > retractable tray is a high-tech drink coaster?  Can HP afford toE > support a Customer Support Call Center for this, when you get calls ; > from people who you tell to type "DIR FRED" actually type H > "DIRSPACEFRED"?  Yeah, the hard part about walking Joe Sixpack throughI > a conversational boot is convincing him that the chevron prompt doesn't . > have anything to do with a gasoline station. > H > Truth be told, for the most part, the NT Kernel (which is VERY similarG > to OpenVMS for obvious reasons) is pretty secure - it's all the other H > Windows crud and everyone's an Admin that messes it up.  It takes more< > than the O/S to have a secure system, it also takes secureG > applications, and a security-minded userbase.  So, just how much more E > secure is OpenVMS going to honestly be when Bubba's PHD$Q_PRIVMSK =  > 0xffffffff, 0xffffffff?  > I > No, the question isn't why not an OpenVMS PC, but rather do you want to ; > screw up OpenVMS hampering it with an excessive amount of B > anti-stupidity features and Clippy-esque eye-candy so Cletus TheI > Slackjawed Yokel can use it?  By the time you finished that task, you'd  > have... well... Windows. >   G Windows problems are due to shoving GDI into kernel space.  Along with  G faulty designs, which in their case aren't bugs in the code.  Now look  H at OS X that the majority of the public can use without any real bother D to secure it.  Yes, security can be done, but it takes a very smart E designer to figure out what the true defaults for security should be. H For example: OSX comes configured without root being enabled out of the H box.  They made it hard for the end user to use root by forcing the end G user to read the directions and to understand what root can do and the  I damages that can be incurred.  Getting the networking configured is easy  8 as well without the end user knowing much.  Why is that?  A Because the developer figured it out and still maintain security. G All it means is that the developer is going to have to work harder and  A do some more critical thinking if he wants to make money at this.   8 Keep in mind that Apple is far ahead of M$ in this area.B Too bad Apple didn't buy OpenVMS from Compaq.  They would've done G something useful with it instead of hiding OpenVMS on some obscure web   page at HP.      --   Where are we going?   And why am I in this handbasket?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:58:46 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <FbmdncBUidFPtbXZ4p2dnA@bresnan.com>   Dave Froble wrote:   > davidc@montagar.com wrote: > H >> J. Everyone doesn't understand security.  Unfortunately, the unwashedJ >> masses don't have as much understanding about the tool in front of themI >> as you think.  They don't understand how firewalls work, or how buffer H >> overflow exploits comprmise their system.  They simply do not get it,9 >> no matter how many times you lead that horse to water.  >>I >> They turn it on, play their games, IM their friends, surf the web, and I >> delete their spam.  You want to put John Q. Public as a system manager I >> of his own OpenVMS system - the very same people that believe that the C >> retractable tray is a high-tech drink coaster?  Can HP afford to F >> support a Customer Support Call Center for this, when you get calls< >> from people who you tell to type "DIR FRED" actually typeI >> "DIRSPACEFRED"?  Yeah, the hard part about walking Joe Sixpack through J >> a conversational boot is convincing him that the chevron prompt doesn't/ >> have anything to do with a gasoline station.  >>I >> Truth be told, for the most part, the NT Kernel (which is VERY similar H >> to OpenVMS for obvious reasons) is pretty secure - it's all the otherI >> Windows crud and everyone's an Admin that messes it up.  It takes more = >> than the O/S to have a secure system, it also takes secure H >> applications, and a security-minded userbase.  So, just how much moreF >> secure is OpenVMS going to honestly be when Bubba's PHD$Q_PRIVMSK = >> 0xffffffff, 0xffffffff? >>J >> No, the question isn't why not an OpenVMS PC, but rather do you want to< >> screw up OpenVMS hampering it with an excessive amount ofC >> anti-stupidity features and Clippy-esque eye-candy so Cletus The J >> Slackjawed Yokel can use it?  By the time you finished that task, you'd >> have... well... Windows.  >> >  > Ok, I'll take a poke at this.  > / > First, I agree with all that's written above.  > H > But it assumes that Joe Sixpack will need to know how to administer a / > VMS system.  What it that assumption changes?  > F > I have a friend with a very successful application package.  At his H > customer sites there is usually nobody capable of administering a VMS I > system.  A few do have IT people, but it's their choice, not mandatory.  > K > Everything on these application systems is menu driven and/or automated.  K >  Even adding user accounts ia a menu option.  People at these sites just   > do not see the '$' prompt. > G > Now that application is rather non-trivial.  What about some simpler  G > applications.  The home based internet appliance seems to be such an  I > application.  How about an application that provides menus leading the  K > user through any required customization?  Set-up screens that prompt for  E > required information, such as e-mail addresses, ISP data, and such?  > I > Such would take a bit of thought, and perhaps more than a bit of work.  G > But the potential customers would be a fairly large number.  Keep in  K > mind that this 'box' won't actually do anything the users are interested  J >  in.  They'd have PCs for their games, e-mail client, browser, and such. > A > Don't know that Joe Sixpack would spend much for such a system.  >   I All you have to do is look at your latest Apple PC.  Underneath the hood  C is unix.  Some say it isn't so, but it is true after much thorough  F digging.  So why not do the same with OpenVMS?  After all, the o/s is I quite compact as it is and would only require putting eye candy GUI over  H it.  Make software installing simple.  If Apple can do it to Unix, then  why not on OpenVMS?   I Remember, most of the Apple users don't know anything at all about unix,  D yet enjoy and use the system without any problems.  It is much more F stable than Windows and you aren't annoyed by the anti-virus software I updates, let alone under attack all the time by annoying malware off the  	 internet.   H With decent cpu chips these days it really shouldn't be a problem to do G so.  Maybe it is just that HP is only beginning to scratch the surface  C of mass marketing with thier printer division.  I think the bigger  G question to HP is: can they compete against windows and still maintain  F their current market share by peddling an OpenVMS PC?  I suspect they F already have answered that question and are being too conservative to  take that gamble.      --   Where are we going?   And why am I in this handbasket?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:10:28 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>  Subject: qman$master.dat5 Message-ID: <e08v94$rbc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>   < What is the command to edit qman$master.dat to make changes?   Thanks in Advance, Chuck    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:53:54 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>  Subject: Re: qman$master.dat5 Message-ID: <e091qi$svg$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>   
 For instance,   E What would be the command to delete the queue excpt$batch out of the   que$master.dat file?   Thanks,  Chuck    Joseph Huber wrote:   d >In article <e08v94$rbc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes: >    > > >>What is the command to edit qman$master.dat to make changes? >> >>     >>& >NONE (at least I do not recommend :-) > @ >Changes in qman$master are made through queue related commands:( >INIT/QUEUE, DELETE/QUEUE, SET QUEUE ... >  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:02:28 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: qman$master.datQ Message-ID: <OF75C2D413.F893BAC4-ON8525713E.0058122D-8525713E.00581D9D@metso.com>   F Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote on 03/27/2006 10:53:54 AM:   > For instance,  > F > What would be the command to delete the queue excpt$batch out of the > que$master.dat file?   $ STOP/QUEUE/RESET EXCPT$BATCH $ DELETE/QUEUE EXCPT$BATCH   > 	 > Thanks,  > Chuck  >  > Joseph Huber wrote:  > D > >In article <e08v94$rbc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron# > <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:  > >  > > @ > >>What is the command to edit qman$master.dat to make changes? > >> > >> > >>( > >NONE (at least I do not recommend :-) > > B > >Changes in qman$master are made through queue related commands:* > >INIT/QUEUE, DELETE/QUEUE, SET QUEUE ... > >  > >  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:59:15 -0500 - From: "Jim Agnew" <brainwavesurfer@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: qman$master.datI Message-ID: <a184d6630603270859h75486c06m5ede0b05163caca8@mail.gmail.com>   ) ------=_Part_11781_28238202.1143478755575 , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   G I suppose one could always use TECO...  (This is a joke, but one of the I first DEC FORTRAN compilers was written in TECO... I forget the details..    Jim   8 On 3/27/06, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote: > > > What is the command to edit qman$master.dat to make changes? >  > Thanks in Advance, > Chuck  >   ) ------=_Part_11781_28238202.1143478755575 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L I suppose one could always use TECO...&nbsp; (This is a joke, but one of th=L e first DEC FORTRAN compilers was written in TECO... I forget the details..=L <br><br>Jim<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3/27/06, <b class=3D= "gmail_sendername"> L Chuck Aaron</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:caaron@ceris.purdue.edu">caaron@ceris=K purdue.edu</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= L "border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padd= ing-left: 1ex;">L What is the command to edit qman$master.dat to make changes?<br><br>Thanks =/ in Advance,<br>Chuck<br></blockquote></div><br>   + ------=_Part_11781_28238202.1143478755575--    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 09:06:51 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: RMS With C++ 3 Message-ID: <ol$rxyDUZozW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <1143355890.390104.72850@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Dillon Amburgey" <dillona@dillona.com> writes: > Hello everyone, F > I am a OpenVMS newbie, and I like the OS very much. I have a limitedH > knowledge of BASIC, so I would like to be able to write programs usingI > RMS with C++. The problem is that I cannot seem to find any information I > about this on Google, and I am not actually sure that this is possible.   > Could anyone offer any advice? > Thank you, > Dillon Amburgey   D    The I/O routines in the C and C++ libraries are written on top ofG    RMS, so if you call printf, or do a "cout <<", or any other standard '    C or C+ I/O, then you are using RMS.   J    RMS has capabilities standard C and C++ rountines don't have.  Some of I    these you can access through extra arguments to fopen, open, or creat. 9    Others will require you to call RMS routines directly.   >    Full documentation can be found at http://www.hp.com/go/vms   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 07:07:06 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 9 Subject: SAP small business solutions now run on OpenVMS! C Message-ID: <1143472026.773046.224770@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   < that is what I was told by a salesman who called ... if true0 then excellent news ... can you verify this Sue?   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 07:59:59 -0800) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> = Subject: Re: SAP small business solutions now run on OpenVMS! C Message-ID: <1143475199.722842.228770@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Bob,  E This is news to me.  What exactly did the salesman say and where were 
 they from?   Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:29:32 -0500 C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> " Subject: Re: Special MARCH 06 Deal7 Message-ID: <67WVf.4816$Q6.1077@bignews5.bellsouth.net>   J Ref ebay XP1000 - the market is still quite strong, it is just a case of aG lot of junk floating around out there and inevitably finding its way to  auction on Ebay.  K We buy very very little there now because most people selling Alpha systems H just picked them up at a Junk auction and try to flip them. They have noG idea of functionality, and testing may or may not involve a power cord.        --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message , news:06030406524725_20331674@antinode.org...# > From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  >  > > > [...] I > > >There were even more PCI slots (and better built-in SCSI) in the two I > > >667MHz XP1000 systems which just failed to get bids of $300 on Ebay. 7 > > >The DS10L is cute, but not the best choice for me.  > > G > > I'm amazed that the 667MHz XP1000 systems didn't reach $300. That's 	 amazingly " > > cheap for such a nice machine. > F >    I agree.  If I hadn't already invested my life savings ($500 plusG > some memory and other junk) into my two 500MHz XP1000 systems, I'd've J > been even more tempted to jump on one or more of those faster ones.  Now@ > I'm waiting for one of those $300 Integrity systems to appear. > 5 > >  I guess this means that the three XP1000 systems E > > currently for sale on Ebay as 'Buy Now' items haven't a chance of 
 selling at& > > $3080, $4480 & $1595 respectively. > J >    Markets are funny things.  A week ago, someone bid $293 for an AlpStaD > 200 4/233 with 96MB (6* 16MB) of memory, a couple of 4GB disks, anI > RRD43, a floppy, an Ethernet card, and an S3 Trio graphics card.  And a A > power cord (but no key).  You tell me why.  Gob-smacking weird.  > E >    I could assemble one with twice the memory and at least one key. & > Cross my palm with silver, somebody. > F >    Maybe it's that out-of-date-firmware message you get on an XP1000 > running VMS V8.2.  > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:07:35 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 6 Subject: Re: strange behaviour: toasted network cards?7 Message-ID: <HAQVf.629$m35.49007@news20.bellglobal.com>   M "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>  / wrote in message news:e05ljk$ne0$1@online.de... H > In article <gebVf.7784$qX6.287656@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck"  > <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > L >> The following network problem just happened to me and was caused by cheapJ >> network hardware. After a power surge, I started to notice poor networkG >> performance (but no OpenVMS crash). My problem was traced to an old  
 >> LinkSysL >> Router (BEFSR41 ver-1) which we were using as an inexpensive alternative  >> to H >> the CISCO PIX firewall. A Google search revealed a known power supplyL >> problem in the 16-LED version of this product. See the following link for >> pictures.& >> http://www.dondoucette.com/befsr41/K >> I opened my unit and noticed the primary filter capacitor was bulged out H >> more than the pictures in the link above. Note that "Ver-1" (16-LED)  >> unitsE >> have a 16v filter capacitor while "Ver-3" (6-LED) units have a 25v F >> capacitor. We've only got one bad unit out of many so don't get the0 >> impression that I'm against LinkSys products. > I > Actually, I am using this router.  I'm not sure if it was also affected I > by the power outage (it is in another room).  It certainly has survived J > power outages in the past, and in general I've been quite happy with it.G > (I especially like the fact that lynx -dump can extract the WAN email F > address.  This lets me update the DNS for the dynamic IP via a batchG > job.  Many more "modern" routers are accessible only via javascript.)  > K The external power supply converts 120 vac into 9 vac before it enters the  L BEFSR41-ver1. Rectification and filtering results in 12.73 vdc. In my case, H the building power supply "averages" 125 vac which results in 13.26 vdc F which is starting to eat into the 20% margin of the 16 vdc cap. (some A designers will use a 33% margin). Power surges make things worse.   H We are not a poor company but this problem had piqued my curiosity so I M decided to repair the unit by replacing the 16 vdc cap with another rated 25  J vdc. To quote the movie 2001, "The AE35 unit is now back in service" (but   has not failed 100% in 72 hours)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:43:10 +0200  From: rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> 6 Subject: Re: strange behaviour: toasted network cards?4 Message-ID: <4428161f$0$29721$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  2 Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply a crit :; > In article <442546b6$0$7934$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, rejoc  > <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> writes:  >  >> $ mc lancp show conf A >> will show you the speed and duplex currently setup on the NIC.  > ! > SYSMAN> do $ mc lancp show conf 4 > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node DANEEL > LAN Configuration:7 >    Device   Medium      Default LAN Address   Version 7 >    ------   ------      -------------------   ------- = >     EZA0    CSMA/CD      08-00-2B-92-26-9D    Not available 4 > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ELIJAH > LAN Configuration:7 >    Device   Medium      Default LAN Address   Version 7 >    ------   ------      -------------------   ------- = >     EZA0    CSMA/CD      08-00-2B-BF-A4-AB    Not available 4 > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node GLADIA > LAN Configuration:M >   Device  Parent  Medium/User        Version   Speed  Size      LAN Address P >   ------  ------  -----------        -------   -----  ----   -----------------P >   ESA0               CSMA/CD         00000000    10   1500   08-00-2B-96-22-35 > < > Note that GLADIA is an ALPHA; DANEEL and ELIJAH are VAXes. > G >> For the switch, if it is manageable you should be able to check the   >> configuration.  > J > The VMS systems are connected via a DECrepeater.  A long cable goes fromJ > that to a switch/router upstairs.  I'll have a look at that later.  The I > DECrepeater is I believe manageable, but I don't have access to it now. J > (My cluster is 500 km away, but this week I'll be moving it to my place 6 > of residence, which will make hardware work easier.) > I I suppose that the ethernet interface on the VAXes are not "native" 10bT  F interfaces. So they must be connected to the DECrepeater through 10bT C transceivers and there is nothing to do regarding half/full duplex.   E On the Alpha, it would be interesting to know the "duplexing" of the  G interface but lancp doesn't seem to give the value (too old version of  G VMS ?). This can be checked at the console prompt (>>>) or during boot. @ As you are connected to a DECrepeater, your interface should be 4 configured no-auto-negotiate, 10Mb/s, *half duplex*.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 08:47:53 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Stupid DCL tricks - Quiet logout 3 Message-ID: <MBY2XaDkR68v@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <442452A7.7EBA9369@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > davidc@montagar.com wrote: >>  = >> When I was in College, I had a symbol:  barf :== stop/id=0  > H >> though there was a line waiting for free terminals - everyone thought+ >> it was still running the "barf" command!  >  > C > And I had all this respect for you as the person in charge of the  > hobbyist programme :-) > I > Seriously though, when you do a STOP/ID=0  are there things that do not ( > happen that would happen with LOGOUT ?  D    1)  if you have a symbol such as lo*gout:==@sys$login:logout.com,D       that .com file will not execute; wanting to skip logout.com isF       my usual rason for using eoj (and eoj is shorter than stop/id=0)  B    2)  user mode exit handlers won't execute, which would apply ifA       you interrupted an image with ^Y and didn't force it to run 
       down   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:07:29 -0500 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu>  Subject: THANK YOU. 5 Message-ID: <e092k1$ti2$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:   G >Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote on 03/27/2006 10:53:54 AM:  >  >    >  >>For instance,  >>F >>What would be the command to delete the queue excpt$batch out of the >>que$master.dat file? >>     >> >  >$ STOP/QUEUE/RESET EXCPT$BATCH  >$ DELETE/QUEUE EXCPT$BATCH  >  >    > 	 >>Thanks,  >>Chuck  >> >>Joseph Huber wrote:  >> >>     >>D >>>In article <e08v94$rbc$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron	 >>>        >>> # >><caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:  >>     >>	 >>>        >>> @ >>>>What is the command to edit qman$master.dat to make changes? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>         >>>>( >>>NONE (at least I do not recommend :-) >>> B >>>Changes in qman$master are made through queue related commands:* >>>INIT/QUEUE, DELETE/QUEUE, SET QUEUE ... >>>  >>>  >>> 	 >>>        >>>  >  >    >    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 08:41:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer3 Message-ID: <vhDYH7jL+gHZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <48ivt6Fjj049U2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > I > What is Common BLISS?  Isn't it bad enough that I already know there is J > BLISS-11, BLISS-16 and BLISS-64 and I have been led to believe that none. > of them are compatable at the source level!!  E    Once upon a time there was just BLISS.  It ran on PDP-10 but there C    were ports to other systems.  DEC picked it up and it eventually     became BLISS-10.   E    DEC updated BLISS and had three dialects:  BLISS-16, BLISS-32, and E    BLISS-36 (which replaced BLISS-10).  The base langauge and common  '    features were known as Common BLISS.   F    Now there are other dialects, but the common stuff I think is stillC    Common BLISS.  If you can stick to that your code should readily +    port between any current BLISS compiler.   B    Common BLISS also supporte dialect specific compilation.  OlderF    compilers like BLISS-10 didn't do that as a fully built-in feature.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:20:18 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>- Subject: Re: Where do DSA devices come from ? * Message-ID: <m7OVf.2578$qm2.1672@trnddc03>   Michael Moroney wrote:4 > John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> writes: >  > G >>>Since the dawn of port-ALLOCLASS, and the fact the DG(A) devices are J >>>always ALLOCLASS 1, I keep hoping that this will someday get fixed. TheK >>>node itself does not need a non-zero ALLOCLASS, except that HBVS demands  >>>it. >  > F >>Required for 2 reasons, and due to multi version cluster support, itG >>will probably never change.  1) the name of the disk has to fit in a  F >>resource name; allocation-style names are 2 characters shorter than 6 >>node-style names (maximum 5 vs. 7 character prefix.) >  > I > The allocation class is internally stored as a binary longword, so this  > isn't a reason.  >   E I don't understand this comment.  Maybe you didn't understand me? :-)   G I was assuming everyone knew what you are saying in the next paragraph.   K > The reason why alloclass 0 isn't allowed is that alloclass 0 is 'special' H > in that devices get named nodename$ddcu and not $0$ddcu.  You can haveI > two different zero alloclass ddcu's with the same ddcu because of that, I > because they become node1$ddcu and node2$ddcu.  But the binary longword  > doesn't accomodate that. >   A I think what you are saying here is it isn't the text form of the D device name that is stored in the resource name (or is it some otherH datastructure?), but a long-word containing the allocation class, which,D if zero, doesn't completely specify the device.  If this is correct,? then it all makes sense, and I apologize for misleading people.   E I think I was mislead by a vague memory that the shadow lock resource H name contained the disk name, and would be too long if a node-style nameE were used.  Double-checking against the IDS book (V5.2, which is the  D latest version I have, but which I think is still valid), the volumeD shadowing lock resource name is "SHAD$"+allocation class device nameC of the virtual unit.  This is a little confusing... Is the "virtual B unit" the member drive or the shadow set?  Shadow names don't haveC an allocation class... the unit name is DSAxxx:, not $ALOC$DSAxxx:. = But in any case, the maximum length for a resource name is 31 B characters, so either "SHAD$NODEXX$DDCuuuu" or "SHAD$$255$DDCuuuu" would be short enough to fit.    > @ >>Is the ALLOCLASS check done when loading the shadow driver, orD >>is it done at mount time?  In other words, does it suffice to have= >>port allocation classes defined for all the shadowed disks?  >  > C > It's done at mount time.  Shadowing doesn't care about the node's @ > alloclass, just that each member disk has a nonzero alloclass. >  > C >>(Remember, it is the member disks that are shared or MSCP-served, % >>not the DSAxxx: shadow set itself.)  >  > 5 > Just a comment.  Many people don't understand that.      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:47:18 +0200 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>- Subject: Re: Where do DSA devices come from ? + Message-ID: <48q8n7FledflU1@individual.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:W > In article <00A53387.D7CE90BC@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  > z >>In article <1143302790.196510.96330@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Ralf Gaertner" <ralf.gaertner@t-systems.com> writes: >> >>>  >>>  >>>Larry Kilgallen schrieb:  >>>  >>> B >>>>On an Alpha system with the latest copy of VMS I have verifyedJ >>>>that the VOLSHAD license is present and the SHADOWING system parameter" >>>>has a value of 2 after reboot. >>>>L >>>>But I see no DSA device, and attempting a mount does not see one either. >>> E >>>Did you set a nonzero ALLOCLASS parameter? Which MOUNT command did H >>>issue? What is the error message if you perform the comand manually ? >>J >>Zero ALLOCLASS, I have found, is one of the major flaws people encounter >>setting up volume shadowing. >  > D > My problem turned out to be that I had specified /SHADOW after theC > volume label, but things worked when I moved it before the volume B > label.  That violates my understanding of how DCL commands work.
 > Oh well.  D That has been the case ever since I first used shadowing with V5.4. < Whether by design or not, /SHADOW is a positional qualifier.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Mar 2006 07:33:31 -0800 From: mckinneyj@saic.com- Subject: Re: Where do DSA devices come from ? C Message-ID: <1143473611.142075.274450@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   $ > /SHADOW is a positional qualifier.   >From the V7.3 MOUNT CLD...    define verb MOUNT     image VMOUNT /    parameter P1, label=DEVICES, prompt="Device" (       value (required,list,type=$device).    parameter P2, label=VOLUMES, prompt="Label"       value (required,list) 2    parameter P3, label=LOGNAMES, prompt="Log name"       value (type=$outlog) [...snip...]!    qualifier SHADOW, nonnegatable        value (required,list)        placement=local  [...]    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.172 ************************