1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 03 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 244       Contents: Re: ACCOUNTNG.DAT / Re: Amount of free space in a bound volume set? 4 Automatically create a default DEC$DISLAY at startup8 Re: Automatically create a default DEC$DISLAY at startup2 Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit2 Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit2 Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit2 Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit2 Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit Re: Capturing console activity8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix= Dumb C programming question; where to put character constants  Re: Free 4100's  Re: Free 4100's  Re: Free 4100's  Re: Free 4100's > Re: HP TCPIP SMTP setup for Process PMAS, is it even possible?> Re: HP TCPIP SMTP setup for Process PMAS, is it even possible? Re: hypothetical question ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! 5 Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches 5 Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches 5 Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches $ Re: My employer needs VMS programmer$ Re: My employer needs VMS programmer Re: OpenVMS fanclub in Orkut- Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing 1 Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing 1 Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing 1 Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing 1 Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:15:30 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: ACCOUNTNG.DAT6 Message-ID: <44581242.B2471E21@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > F > In article <e37kpp$5ec$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de4 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > D > > > The logical name ACCOUNTNG seems to work like SYSUAF, with two > > > differences: > > > 6 > > >    o  it is not mentioned in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE > > C > > Are there any other similar logical names also not mentioned in  > > SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE? > J > OK, it seems to work but, when it is off the system disk, I'm back to my@ > old problem of a MERGE being initiated when a node shuts down. > E > Should it be enough to put $ SET ACCOUNTING/DISABLE near the end of  > SYS$MANAGER:SYSHUTDWN.COM?  H As I read the HELP for SET ACCOUNTING, you'll need to mate SET ACCO/DISAF with an appropriate /ENABLE command in SYSTARTUP_V*.COM specifying the appropriate keywords.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:18:34 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>8 Subject: Re: Amount of free space in a bound volume set?6 Message-ID: <445812FA.DC3A05C9@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > E > In article <1146516481.458807.182570@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, 0 > "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com> writes: > > > > Does anyone have a code example (DCL or C) for determining > > ( > > 1) Is a disk a bound volume set? and@ > > 2) What is the amount of free space on the bound volume set? > > J > > I have pieces of the answer ( f$getdvi is used, and one has to do someE > > looping ) , but was hoping for a clearer example than what I have K > > on-hand (which is mainly a rough verbal description, and lacks detail).  >  > Check a file on the disk:  >  >    File ID:  (104040,2,0)  > 5 > If the last item is non-zero, it's on a volume set.   = Well, almost. If it's greater than zero, than definitely on a E volume-set. If zero, it may or may not be. The last item there is the + zero-relative RVN (Relative Volume Number).   G > As for free space, can't you just do F$GETDVI(DISK,"FREEBLOCKS") like  > with any other disk?  ? F$GETDVI() reports in specific volumes in a set, not the entire  volume-set.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 16:32:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> = Subject: Automatically create a default DEC$DISLAY at startup , Message-ID: <4457C1CD.5E41EEF5@teksavvy.com>  G I have some graphic-less machines on whom, I want to have a system/wide F DECW$DISPLAY created by default at boot time to point to a workstation that has a graphics display.    # I would like to have code such as :   & $IF .not. F$GETSYI("GRAPHICS_CAPABLE") $THEN 4 $	SET DISPLAY/CREATE/EXEC/NODE=CAKE/TRANSPORT=DECNET; $	DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DECW$DISPLAY 'F$TRNLNM("DECW$DISPLAY")  $ENDIF $!  H Obviously, for SET DISPLAY to function, the decwindows startup must haveJ executed first. But decwidnows often starts separately from SYSTARTUP_VMS.  G What is the best strategy/file to put such commands in ? And is there a / way to know if a node has a graphical display ?     9 (the goal is to be able to use sysman or decnet to send a E CREATE/TERM/DETACHED command to a graphics-less node to automatically @ pop the window up on the graphics-capable workstation by using a) predefined default decw$display logical).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:44:52 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>A Subject: Re: Automatically create a default DEC$DISLAY at startup 6 Message-ID: <44581923.963230F6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > [snip]% > I would like to have code such as :  > ( > $IF .not. F$GETSYI("GRAPHICS_CAPABLE")# I take it this is a wish-list item:   / TD183::DJESYS$ say F$GETSYI("GRAPHICS_CAPABLE") A %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling   \GRAPHICS_CAPABLE\  TD183::DJESYS$ vers * IA64 V8.2-1   (HP rx2600  (1.40GHz/1.5MB))  7 You could try this and see if it returns a null string:    $ gg = f$device( "_G%A0:" )   E ...as a way of simulating a wild-carded F$GETDVI( "G%A0:", EXISTS" ). # Seems to work on V7.2-2 and V7.3-2.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 18:46:38 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> ; Subject: Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit 5 Message-ID: <iON5g.6127$TT.5890@twister.nyroc.rr.com>    ----- Original Message -----  0 From: "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms $ Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:40 AM7 Subject: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit      > All, > K >     Just in case you weren't aware, there is a new version of the AM Data G > Collector.  It fixes a problem where the lock contention data is  not  alwaysL > collected.  This is the only change in this kit.  If this affects you, you% > might want to download the new kit.    Barry,  L What's the status on getting a new AMDS kit that corrects the issue of locks not being reported?   K In addition, I reported an AMDS issue about a month ago that may or may not F have reached you.  There's an issue with the AMDS V7.3-2 kit where theK number of events reported in the event window (low memory, high IO, etc) is J substantially less than the number of events reported in previous versions ofJ AMDS.  Using the previous version of AMDS$CONSOLE.EXE seems to correct the issue.   -Jeff    >  > Barry Kierstein  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 19:14:40 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> ; Subject: Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit 5 Message-ID: <AcO5g.6129$TT.1060@twister.nyroc.rr.com>   : "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message/ news:iON5g.6127$TT.5890@twister.nyroc.rr.com... I > In addition, I reported an AMDS issue about a month ago that may or may  not H > have reached you.  There's an issue with the AMDS V7.3-2 kit where theJ > number of events reported in the event window (low memory, high IO, etc) isL > substantially less than the number of events reported in previous versions > ofL > AMDS.  Using the previous version of AMDS$CONSOLE.EXE seems to correct the > issue.  J The version above should have said V7.3-2B.  (which is the V0703-2B-1 kit)   -Jeff    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 20:42:11 GMT 0 From: "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com>; Subject: Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit . Message-ID: <DuP5g.30$u96.13@news.cpqcorp.net>   Jeff,   I > What's the status on getting a new AMDS kit that corrects the issue of   > locks  > not being reported?   I Actually, you can have the new driver now.  The AM Data Collector kit is  K meant to work with the DECamds product as well as the Availability Manager   product.  J > In addition, I reported an AMDS issue about a month ago that may or may  > not H > have reached you.  There's an issue with the AMDS V7.3-2 kit where theK > number of events reported in the event window (low memory, high IO, etc)   > isL > substantially less than the number of events reported in previous versionsC > of AMDS.  Using the previous version of AMDS$CONSOLE.EXE seems to  > correct the issue.  I I haven't heard about this one.  Can you give some specifics so that the  1 team here can attempt to replicate them?  Thanks.    Barry    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:20:19 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> ; Subject: Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit 8 Message-ID: <n2Q5g.17487$ZQ3.10389@twister.nyroc.rr.com>  ; "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com> wrote in message ( news:DuP5g.30$u96.13@news.cpqcorp.net... > Jeff,  > J > > What's the status on getting a new AMDS kit that corrects the issue of	 > > locks  > > not being reported?  > J > Actually, you can have the new driver now.  The AM Data Collector kit isL > meant to work with the DECamds product as well as the Availability Manager
 > product.  L The AM DC kit overwrites the AVAIL command so AMDS won't work.  I was hoping1 we'd get a corrected AMDS kit to simplify things.   K > > In addition, I reported an AMDS issue about a month ago that may or may  > > not J > > have reached you.  There's an issue with the AMDS V7.3-2 kit where theL > > number of events reported in the event window (low memory, high IO, etc) > > isE > > substantially less than the number of events reported in previous  versionsE > > of AMDS.  Using the previous version of AMDS$CONSOLE.EXE seems to  > > correct the issue. > J > I haven't heard about this one.  Can you give some specifics so that the3 > team here can attempt to replicate them?  Thanks.   E Thanks, I think I'll check with support first to see why they haven't  elevated it.   >  > Barry  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:32:05 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>; Subject: Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit 6 Message-ID: <44581625.DE62C25B@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Jeff Goodwin wrote:  > = > "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com> wrote in message * > news:DuP5g.30$u96.13@news.cpqcorp.net...	 > > Jeff,  > > L > > > What's the status on getting a new AMDS kit that corrects the issue of > > > locks  > > > not being reported?  > > L > > Actually, you can have the new driver now.  The AM Data Collector kit isN > > meant to work with the DECamds product as well as the Availability Manager > > product. > N > The AM DC kit overwrites the AVAIL command so AMDS won't work.  I was hoping3 > we'd get a corrected AMDS kit to simplify things.    <rant>H Since they insist on shoving this Java garbage down our throats, I guessG we'll have to begin dissecting the kits and go unsupported just to have  a functional solution.  F Too bad they won't listen to *ALL* their customers, just a select few.# Makes life harder for the majority.  </rant>    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2006 14:15:48 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ' Subject: Re: Capturing console activity C Message-ID: <1146604547.934009.278850@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    glen.thompson@gmail.com wrote:F > Thanks for all the suggestions.  Using the printer port on the VT510F > looks like it will be the best method for our situation.  This wouldG > allow me to either route the activity to a printer or back to the Vax ? > to capture to a file.  The use of an old PC is another idea I > > considered but raises some other issues in this environment. > E > While I had hoped that there was a way to do this within VMS, these  > solutions will work. >  > glen  E I hope you've checked with your audit department to see if they still  need this log.  G If it's still critical, then the printer port log and most of the other D simple "capture" methods might not be acceptable because they can be easily turned off and on.   E If that fact isn't important, then the log must not be that critical.   D If the console log is critical, you might want to look at one of the? specialized console applications, as suggested by Mr.Hoffman. A F complete console audit solution must run on a device or system that isG *not* the system being served by the console, so even if something were G built into VMS, it would only be able to record when VMS was "awake" at  that level.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 14:52:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix , Message-ID: <4457AA78.ACF3FDA1@teksavvy.com>   "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" wrote: > A > Maybe you should also specify what "cat" means in this example!    It can mean many things.  I On GUI systems, it is an application which hunts and kills your mouse :-)   F On Unix, it is the process of turning a con into a cat. (concatenate). The VMS equivalent is APPEND.   E And since Unix lacks the equivalent of "type", the essentially APPEND 8 file SYS$OUTPUT: when they want to display its contents.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:54:50 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix : Message-ID: <RaudnYiVk5yxSMrZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Farrell, Michael wrote:   D > Check out the new "/wild" switch in Search re: your need to search > "begins with" or "ends with".  >  > Mike Farrell  F Sorry, I'm stuck at V7.2-1 for the foreseeable future.  SEARCH has no E /WILD switch in this version.   That's quite all right however, I do  ' have grep available to meet such needs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 18:00:44 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix : Message-ID: <PLednQKZiugTS8rZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  5 > In article <nv0Lm1TpP+TW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > Y >>In article <4bmjnoF12ekovU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >> >>M >>>Sorry, the compilers are not part of Unix, they are applications and while K >>>all I have at the moment is gcc, I expect your right about the behaviour - >>>but wrong about the source of the problem.  >>A >>   UNIX without a C compiler is like a baguette without butter.  >  > J > One of the most noticable changes when SunOS died and Solaris (aka SysV)H > was foisted on the world was the lack of a C compiler.  Not surprisingG > when you realize that the creators of SysV did not ship compilers, by G > default, with any of their systems (3B2, 3B15, 3B20 and even the baby = > 3B1 aka UnixPC).  Compilers were separately priced options.  >  >  > bill > G Sun's C Compiler is now "free".  Support, if you want it, is available  
 for $$$$$.  G It's recent and may turn out to have been a very good move if it leads  $ more people to delvelop for Solaris.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2006 17:38:27 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix C Message-ID: <1146616707.415114.288360@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: { > In article <445656D0.A6669895@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: " > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >>\ > >> In article <4452d96f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: > >> >8 > >> >"Rob Brown" <mylastname@gmcl.com> wrote in messageE > >> >news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0604281211340.19111@localhost.localdomain...  > >> >H > >> >> > Why include Unix?  In Unix, no filename (or extension) has anyM > >> >> > implicit meaning.  Applications may impart meaning, but the OS just  > >> >> > don't care.  > >> >> 4 > >> >> I think that the same is true in VMS or RSX. > >> >>  > >> > > >> >    .DIR > >> > > >> > >> $ dir test.dir & > >> %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found > >> $ edit test.dir > >> aaaaaa  > >> ctrl-Z  > >> > >> Directory DATA1:[000000]  > >> > >> TEST.DIR;1  > >> > >> Total of 1 file.  > >> > >> $ typ test.dir  > >> aaaaaa  > >> > >> $ > >>L > >> A VMS directory may have to have a .DIR extension but that doesn't mean5 > >> every file with a .DIR extension is a directory.  > > B > >However, a .DIR;1 file without the "is a directory" flag set is% > >generally considered a corruption.  > > O > It may not be a particularly good idea but there is nothing in the OS to stop Q > you creating such files and you don't need to perform any convoluted actions to  > create such files.Q > Hence the OS doesn't use .DIR;1 to provide an implicit meaning - that this is a P > directory. It also needs extra information in the form of the "is a directory" > flag.     G But the OS *does* assume that legitimate directory files end in .DIR;1!   F When given [AAA.BBB.CCC], RMS looks for [000000]AAA.DIR;1, and in thatE file it looks for BBB.DIR;1, and in that file it looks for CCC.DIR;1. F It doesn't look for .THIS or .THAT; it looks for .DIR;1! It seems thatE .DIR;1 is special in that RMS doesn't look for directory files of any  other type and version number.  @ Try renaming a .DIR;1 file to a different file type and see whatF happens to your directory! It has to be .DIR;1. If that doesn't give a1 special meaning to .DIR;1 I don't know what does.   E So, not all .DIR;1 files are directories, but all directories have to C be .DIR;1 files! And yes -- I didn't forget -- a .DIR;1 file has to 7 have its directory bit set to be a bona fide directory.   F And if you don't do silly things like create non-dir files that end in9 .DIR;1 (which is the usual case), .DIR;1 means directory.    [...]    AEF    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 01:26:41 +0000 (UTC)1 From: legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix , Message-ID: <e390sh$9dm$1@news.xmission.com>  / [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]   C "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> spake the secret code 6 <SZSdncSjMuXXScrZnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com> thusly:   >Rich Alderson wrote:  > @ >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>   >>  F >>>   Except, of course, that all the UNIX compilers have no idea what6 >>>   thier input is without looking at the extension. >>   >>   >> Oh, horseshit.  > $ >That's certainly true of gcc. [...]   No, its not true of gcc. --  E "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: 3           <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> ( 	    Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty,                <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:09:09 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix 6 Message-ID: <445810C5.FF41949C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" wrote: > @ > Ah!, now I see. Your entire example is on unix and not on VMS. > # > I was confused by the "$" prompt!   3 Default prompt for a non-super-user in some shells.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:05:46 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>A Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix 6 Message-ID: <44580FFA.2E7BE9F0@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > { > In article <445656D0.A6669895@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: " > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >>\ > >> In article <4452d96f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: > >> >8 > >> >"Rob Brown" <mylastname@gmcl.com> wrote in messageE > >> >news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0604281211340.19111@localhost.localdomain...  > >> >H > >> >> > Why include Unix?  In Unix, no filename (or extension) has anyM > >> >> > implicit meaning.  Applications may impart meaning, but the OS just  > >> >> > don't care.  > >> >> 4 > >> >> I think that the same is true in VMS or RSX. > >> >>  > >> > > >> >    .DIR > >> > > >> > >> $ dir test.dir & > >> %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found > >> $ edit test.dir > >> aaaaaa  > >> ctrl-Z  > >> > >> Directory DATA1:[000000]  > >> > >> TEST.DIR;1  > >> > >> Total of 1 file.  > >> > >> $ typ test.dir  > >> aaaaaa  > >> > >> $ > >>L > >> A VMS directory may have to have a .DIR extension but that doesn't mean5 > >> every file with a .DIR extension is a directory.  > > B > >However, a .DIR;1 file without the "is a directory" flag set is% > >generally considered a corruption.  > > O > It may not be a particularly good idea but there is nothing in the OS to stop Q > you creating such files and you don't need to perform any convoluted actions to  > create such files.Q > Hence the OS doesn't use .DIR;1 to provide an implicit meaning - that this is a P > directory. It also needs extra information in the form of the "is a directory" > flag.  > T > >> As to no filename (or extension) in Unix having any implicit meaning what aboutD > >> the two "filenames" which exist in every directory  ie . and ..M > >> This is at least on a par with the VMS .DIR requirement for a directory.  > > G > >Well, yes and no. IMHO, these equate more to the [000000] entry in a I > >rooted logical "directory" (as in SYS$SPECIFIC:[000000]) (".") and the 8 > >backlink FID entry ("..") of a directory file itself. > > L > Although when a disk is initialised a 000000.DIR;1 entry is created as the > root of the disk  F Think of [000000] - the MFD - as being akin to the root directory of aA UN*X partition (as opposed to the root of the entire filesystem).   = > such files don't really exist in a rooted logical directory  > ie > dir sys$specific:[000000]  > % > does not contain a 000000.dir file.  > , > Alpha2:dir sys$specific:[000000]000000.dir# > %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found   1 ...but is implied to be present since this works:   3 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ directoryx sys$specific:[000000]    Directory SYS$SPECIFIC:[000000]   ; CDE$DEFAULTS.DIR;1  DIA$TOOLS.DIR;1     MOM$SYSTEM.DIR;1     SYS$I18N.DIR;1      ; SYS$LDR.DIR;1       SYS$STARTUP.DIR;1   SYSCBI.DIR;1         SYSCOMMON.DIR;1     ; SYSERR.DIR;1        SYSEXE.DIR;1        SYSHLP.DIR;1         SYSLIB.DIR;1        ; SYSMAINT.DIR;1      SYSMGR.DIR;1        SYSMSG.DIR;1         SYSTEST.DIR;1       ( SYSUPD.DIR;1        TNT.DIR;1              Total of 18 files.   > [snip]  H The ".name" convention was likely dreamed up as an afterthought, as muchH of such stuff is the UN*X world. In my experience, "echo *" will reflectB the presence of such "hidden" files, though I don't a UN*X machine& running these days to check it out on.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2006 21:44:24 -0700  From: vmssysmgr@hotmail.com F Subject: Dumb C programming question; where to put character constantsC Message-ID: <1146631464.015188.242690@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   B I am working on some C code and have run into a problem. This codeG involves talking to external devices. I am trying to store the protocol E in character constants. The problem I am having is that  when I put a B character constant into a header file, the linker gives me tons ofG muldef warnings. I also tried creating a separate source file with only E the constant declarations and then putting extern references into the E header file. When I try the second method, it complains when I try to G reference the extern constants (for example, in a memcpy). I am using C  6.5 on OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1.   A Here is an example of the original which works but results in the  muldef warnings:: 	 devdef.h:   , #define DEVICE_ON                       0x03+ #define DEVICE_OFF                     0x04   #define DEVICE_COMM_HEADER  0x22& #define DEVICE_ADDRESS            0x01% #define DEVICE_RQ_STATUS         0xF0   ! const char ckGetDeviceStatus[3] =    { DEVICE_COMM_HEADER,      DEVICE_ADDRESS,      DEVICE_RQ_STATUS };   E Here is an example of how I tried to use extern to solve the problem:   	 devdef.h:   , #define DEVICE_ON                       0x03+ #define DEVICE_OFF                     0x04 & #define DEVICE_ADDRESS            0x01      extern char ckGetDeviceStatus[];  B ------------------------------------------------------------------   devstringdef.c:     #define DEVICE_COMM_HEADER  0x22% #define DEVICE_RQ_STATUS         0xF0   ! const char ckGetDeviceStatus[3] =    { DEVICE_COMM_HEADER,      DEVICE_ADDRESS,      DEVICE_RQ_STATUS };   C -------------------------------------------------------------------   C Can anyone tell me the correct way to do this? Basically, I am just G talking to a device that uses three byte strings for commands. However, D one byte varies depending on the device address and two nybbles varyG depending on the command and zone. I know I could just build the string E in each routine that communicates with the device, but I am trying to   make this program readable, etc.   Thanks Will   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:59:52 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Free 4100's8 Message-ID: <fLP5g.1069$VV2.79002@news20.bellglobal.com>  / "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message  # news:op.s8xicxjtzgicya@hyrrokkin... F > Iain Barker [ibarker@aastra.com]  just posted this on the Tru64 list >  > M > We have approx 50x used AS4100 AlphaServers for disposal, plus some unused  	 > spares.  > L > Systems are a mix of AC and DC powered units, mounted two per 19" cabinet. > C > FREE! - buyer must collect from our loading dock, Boston MA area.  >  > Each cabinet contains: > H > 2x AS4100 (AC) or AS4100-CO (DC) each with: 1GB RAM, 1-4x 533MHz CPU,  > Ethernet, T1/E1/V.35. 8 > 2x BA36x SCSI shelf with disks (mix of 18G, 9G and 4G)+ > 2x Memory channel hubs (Mix of MC1 & MC2)  > Power distribution etc.  > / > Email me to arrange pickup if you want these.  > > > All will be scrapped next week if there is no interest here. >    *** Hobbyist Alert ***  I The AS4100 is a powerful machine (compared to AS2100 and AS1000) that my  J employer still uses for OpenVMS development. Unfortunately Boston is a 10 G hour drive from me so getting even one of them is out of the question.  I Don't let these machines go to the scrap heap. They should be donated to  # community colleges or sold on eBay.   I p.s. We came across 4 spare boxes then did the "Borg thing" by stripping  K down two units to get more memory and CPUs into the remaining machines. Of  I course, we kept the stripped-down machines for spare parts which include  $ some pretty neat switching supplies.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:27:47 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Free 4100's6 Message-ID: <44581523.BC3A7256@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > F > Iain Barker [ibarker@aastra.com]  just posted this on the Tru64 list > L > We have approx 50x used AS4100 AlphaServers for disposal, plus some unused	 > spares.  > L > Systems are a mix of AC and DC powered units, mounted two per 19" cabinet. > C > FREE! - buyer must collect from our loading dock, Boston MA area.  >  > Each cabinet contains: > G > 2x AS4100 (AC) or AS4100-CO (DC) each with: 1GB RAM, 1-4x 533MHz CPU,  > Ethernet, T1/E1/V.35. 8 > 2x BA36x SCSI shelf with disks (mix of 18G, 9G and 4G)+ > 2x Memory channel hubs (Mix of MC1 & MC2)  > Power distribution etc.  > / > Email me to arrange pickup if you want these.  > > > All will be scrapped next week if there is no interest here.   Tom,  E If you get no takers, I'll see if I can arrange shipping to a storage C space and put them up on eBay. Of course, I'll have to separate the A machines from the racks to make shipping affordable for hobbyists  willing to take on a 4100.  9 Also, if Islandco doesn't speak up, try approaching them.   F ...oh, yeah, a week's notice is a bit short given that some companies'@ acquisition cycles can take months or even years to get funding, approvals, ...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 19:46:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: Free 4100's) Message-ID: <op.s8yfbtzgzgicya@hyrrokkin>   K On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:34:49 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing   ' <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:   D > In article <44581523.BC3A7256@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J.  : > Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: >> Tom Linden wrote: >>> H >>> Iain Barker [ibarker@aastra.com]  just posted this on the Tru64 list >>> I >>> We have approx 50x used AS4100 AlphaServers for disposal, plus some   
 >>> unused >>> spares.  >>> G >>> Systems are a mix of AC and DC powered units, mounted two per 19"    >>> cabinet. >>> E >>> FREE! - buyer must collect from our loading dock, Boston MA area.  >>>  >>> Each cabinet contains: >>> I >>> 2x AS4100 (AC) or AS4100-CO (DC) each with: 1GB RAM, 1-4x 533MHz CPU,  >>> Ethernet, T1/E1/V.35. : >>> 2x BA36x SCSI shelf with disks (mix of 18G, 9G and 4G)- >>> 2x Memory channel hubs (Mix of MC1 & MC2)  >>> Power distribution etc.  >>> 1 >>> Email me to arrange pickup if you want these.  >>> @ >>> All will be scrapped next week if there is no interest here. >> >> Tom,  >>H >> If you get no takers, I'll see if I can arrange shipping to a storageF >> space and put them up on eBay. Of course, I'll have to separate theD >> machines from the racks to make shipping affordable for hobbyists >> willing to take on a 4100.  >>< >> Also, if Islandco doesn't speak up, try approaching them. >>I >> ...oh, yeah, a week's notice is a bit short given that some companies' C >> acquisition cycles can take months or even years to get funding,  >> approvals, ...  > < > All very good, but I think you want to write Iain Barker   > [ibarker@aastra.com]L > with this stuff; I get the impression Tom is just passing along the news   > and & > has nothing to do with the machines. > J > (Which I admit I'm salivating over, but 3000 miles away is too far for   > me.) > 	 > -- Alan  > H David was the only one to make that mistake.  We see in a message that   which   is exciting and forget the rest.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 02:34:49 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Free 4100's6 Message-ID: <00A551A7.F05E3773@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  y In article <44581523.BC3A7256@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:  >Tom Linden wrote: >>  G >> Iain Barker [ibarker@aastra.com]  just posted this on the Tru64 list  >>  M >> We have approx 50x used AS4100 AlphaServers for disposal, plus some unused 
 >> spares. >>  M >> Systems are a mix of AC and DC powered units, mounted two per 19" cabinet.  >>  D >> FREE! - buyer must collect from our loading dock, Boston MA area. >>   >> Each cabinet contains:  >>  H >> 2x AS4100 (AC) or AS4100-CO (DC) each with: 1GB RAM, 1-4x 533MHz CPU, >> Ethernet, T1/E1/V.35.9 >> 2x BA36x SCSI shelf with disks (mix of 18G, 9G and 4G) , >> 2x Memory channel hubs (Mix of MC1 & MC2) >> Power distribution etc. >>  0 >> Email me to arrange pickup if you want these. >>  ? >> All will be scrapped next week if there is no interest here.  >  >Tom,  > F >If you get no takers, I'll see if I can arrange shipping to a storageD >space and put them up on eBay. Of course, I'll have to separate theB >machines from the racks to make shipping affordable for hobbyists >willing to take on a 4100.  > : >Also, if Islandco doesn't speak up, try approaching them. > G >...oh, yeah, a week's notice is a bit short given that some companies' A >acquisition cycles can take months or even years to get funding,  >approvals, ...   M All very good, but I think you want to write Iain Barker [ibarker@aastra.com] L with this stuff; I get the impression Tom is just passing along the news and$ has nothing to do with the machines.  K (Which I admit I'm salivating over, but 3000 miles away is too far for me.)    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 15:42:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> G Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP setup for Process PMAS, is it even possible? , Message-ID: <4457B630.B2CD65AF@teksavvy.com>   Rich Jordan wrote:D > When running again, SHOW SERVICE SMTP/FULL showed port 2525.  SHOWH > CONFIG SMTP does not display the port information (nor can you set the' > port through the CONFIG SMTP method).   : SHOW SERVICE SMTP displays information about the receiver.4 SHOW CONF SMTP shows information about the symbiont.    G And a call comes into port XX, the TCPIP kernel creates a process under E the username defined in SET SERVICE and invokes the command procedure H defined in SET SERVICE and there is a logical name available that points6 to the network link that the application (in this caseP TCPIP$SMTP_RECV.EXE) assigns a channel to to communicate with the remote client.  F The information in SET SERVICE is used to create the process. Once theG process is created, the TCPIP$SMTP_RECV.EXE doesn't care about the info H in SET SERVICE. But it does actively consult the information in SET CONF3 SMTP for information about the core mailing system.   G If you enable tracing/logging for the receiver, it becomes very evident ? since it displays the full config of the symbiont upon startup.   C The receiver doesn't seem designed to listen to a port for incoming P calls. It appears to have offloaded this to the TCPIP kernel (auxiliary server).    D Remember that if you  SET SERVICE SMTP/PORT=2525/ADDRESS=1.2.3.4, itE will create a new record, and the old record with SMTP at port 25 and  address 0.0.0.0 still exists.   H It is also likely that the port number is stored in more than one place,> so patching only the port number in the key may not be enough.  G i.e. It isn't enough to ensure you patch one record. You need to ensure  that you remove the old record.   E > > you need to look at the output of  netstat.  *.25 indicates it is  > H > As soon as I figure out what options are needed to do anything useful;  $ $ @sys$manager:tcpip$define_commands	 $ netstat   F this gives you a list of all ports that the stack is listening to. AndH it also gives you a list of all current established connections (inbound and outbound).  F > obtuse.  However the SHOW SERVICE clearly showed nothing on port 25,# > and the new service on port 2525.   J It could be. Telnet has some hardcoded port number that cannot be changed.  & One way to try is to do the following:  G define a service on port 2525 that calls the tcpip$smtp_receiver stuff,  but call it "CHOCOLATE".M define a service in port 25 that calls your spam software and call it "SMTP".   E This way, the TCPIP stack may be happy with the fact that there is an A "SMTP" service defined on port 25 and not realise that it invokes # software that isn't the normal one.   G > There are some options that don't appear to be settable from the CLI, H > f.ex the log file name, though I may not have looked hard enough to be > absolutely certain.   : SET SERVICE name /LOG_OPTIONS=FILE=disk:[dir.dir]file.type  G It isn't documented in the on-line help. You need to disable and enable  the service for it to show up.  C Also, you may look at HELP ENABLE SERVICE. You can enable a service < selectively by port and/or address. Haven't tried it though.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2006 13:05:11 -0700 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>G Subject: Re: HP TCPIP SMTP setup for Process PMAS, is it even possible? C Message-ID: <1146600311.039141.123190@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF, E      thanks for taking the time.  I'll work with it tonight; since my ? only daytime connection to the box is via telnet I can't do the  reconfig from here.   F > Remember that if you  SET SERVICE SMTP/PORT=2525/ADDRESS=1.2.3.4, itG > will create a new record, and the old record with SMTP at port 25 and  > address 0.0.0.0 still exists.   A      I did a set noservice smtp and it prompted through both smtp B entries; I removed the port 25 one, left the port 2525 one, doubleB checked it, and rebooted.  Same issues; even though no service was. listed for port 25 I still got responses on it  & > $ @sys$manager:tcpip$define_commands > $ netstat   G I was running netstat from the TCPIP prompt; there it was prompting for 	 _Options:   < > SET SERVICE name /LOG_OPTIONS=FILE=disk:[dir.dir]file.type > I > It isn't documented in the on-line help. You need to disable and enable   > the service for it to show up.  E That is a logical command setting for it, but I was relying on online " help; my printed docs are at work.  @ I'm rebuilding the config tonight and will try some of the other* options you've pointed out.  Thanks again.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 20:57:23 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>" Subject: Re: hypothetical question5 Message-ID: <44580E03.EF0903A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > E > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote on  > 05/01/2006 09:28:47 PM:  >  > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > > # > > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > > H > > > > Are you saying that on say, SDLT tape, BACKUP will not skip over > "bad" M > > > > tape and write a full good block, or skip over the "bad" section on a H > > > > read, or reconstruct unreadable blocks from the redundant block? > > > I > > >    I was intending to communicate that many of the default settings  > usedK > > > for BACKUP are basically unnecessary on newer tape devices, including  > onM > > > the DLT and SDLT series tape devices.  These newer tape devices provide J > > > much of what BACKUP itself has forward and has brought along for useA > > > with the older and (comparatively) unreliable tape devices.  > > > L > > >    Whether you trust the tape drive ECC/CRC implementation, or whetherL > > > you want the added BACKUP CRC/XOR processing remains a local decision, > > > of course. > > G > > Remember also that DLT takes a somewhat different approach to error L > > handling. Many previously "recoverable" errors seen in 9-track media areG > > considered "fatal" on DLT. Hence, the HP firmware in the HP-branded H > > drives which provides a much more "perfect" medium to the applicatonJ > > writing data to it, rather than simply raising an error indication andL > > expecting the host to handle it properly (it might not) as the "generic" > > firmware is wont to do.  > E > Well we are seeing "edge" errors on the SDLT we never saw on DLT or E > 9-track (or 8mm for that matter) and I have recently been told that F > SDLT writes "very close to the edge of the tape" making it prone andM > vulnerable to edge problems.  This raises fatal errors.  The recommendation  > is to "retire" the tape.  E I'm probably seeing something similar. My three-year-old SDLT-1 tapes < are starting to die. SLS reports mount counts circa. 23-28.   G I seem to recall DLT-IVs not living much past that kind of utilization, B though I think those went as high as 45 mounts before issues arose
 consistently.   B Mount counts is about the only usable metric I've found within the limits of SLS.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 12:50:15 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!, Message-ID: <IRN5g.5$AT.930@news.uswest.net>     J The local news in Denver interviewed a Comp Sci professor either at CSU orJ UC Boulder (I don't remember which) and he had been hit by this Mac virus.  I If the MacIntosh becomes more common, it's security by obscurity security H model will fail.  The Open Source Mozilla project is already starting toL experience this issue as more people use its products on Windows.  As AndersH noted, Apple never claimed that the MacIntosh OS is immune - but nor hasJ Apple done anything to dispel its zealots claim that the Mac OS is immune.J Apple, like MS before it (and IBM before MS), must take the responsibilityE for not securing its products.  MS and the Open Source community both G understand this and do appear to be working to resolve newly discovered D security issues before they are abused and become security breaches.  
 Mike Ober.  8 "Anders Eklf" <andekl_no@saaf_spam.se> wrote in message4 news:1heq3uo.ojmmus1zvzyaN%andekl_no@saaf_spam.se... >  > <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: > G > > that leaves only OpenVMS as a secure alternative ... where is HP on 	 > > this?  > > ) > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12537279/  > I > Completlely disregarding the credibility of the site in this context, I 9 > see are several questionable "features" in the article.  > F > First, Apple never claimed Mac OS X was immune to viruses - some MacI > zaelots and others sometimes make that mistake, obviously confusing the ) > lack of existing viruses with immunity. C > It is, however, immune to all 114307 or so known Windows viruses. % > (the number is a moving target ...)  > D > The article doesn't mention a name or designation for the alledgedJ > virus, lending the article some urban legend status. Or a best, a re-run< > of the Inqtana or Oompa proof-of-concept worms (February). > Old news, that is. > J > There is no reference whatsoever to any antivirus company - or any other* > source you can check, for that matter... > B > The claim that the Intel chips would be more vulnerable than PPC< > "because more people can program them" is as far as I knowC > unsubstantiated. It's the OS that makes the computer more or less > > secure, and you still have to know how to program in the OS. > B > The "experts" mentioned in the header appear to boil down to one > independant consultant.  >  > I think I'll stop at that. > --  6 > I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines0 > to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 15:57:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!, Message-ID: <4457B991.6E4F8AC3@teksavvy.com>   "Michael D. Ober" wrote:K > If the MacIntosh becomes more common, it's security by obscurity security  > model will fail.  @ One needs to look at viri at different levels.  Applications are generally the culprits.   C The problem with windows is that applications come "pre-enabled" on B Widnows and many users don't know or need about them, but they are targets for viri.   A From the OS point of view, I guess the big question is whether it H separates data from code so tha typical buffer overflow conditions don't result in data being executed.  F And obviously, does the OS allow some benign application such as a webE browser to insert data/files in such a deep OS location that it can't > even been seen without special tools (think the Sony Rootkit).  F Imagine, you put in a CD and it automatically changes your SYSBOOT.EXE with some patch !!!!  F How much damage can a virus inflict on MACos versus Windows ? It seems2 that on Windows, any application can do much harm.  G Microsoft had created so many entrty points  due to marketing pressures E to enable so many services by default. This is slowly being addresses F now. But it remains a structural problem of applications being able to inflict damage to the system.   F Do Viri on MacOS really inflict danage to system files, or just to the3 user files/user process ? That is the big question.     E In terms of Mozilla/Firefox, it seems to be that bugs are being found E and being fixed. And that is not specific to an operating system. The H question is how well is each version of Firefox fitted to each operatingG system. If it were ported to VMS, would it require CMKRNL ? or would it  need only TMPMBX and NETMBX ?   F On windows it appears that applications have by default the equivalentI of SETPRV,BYPASS,CMKRNL. What privileges do standard apps have on MacOS ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:57:33 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!: Message-ID: <24idnWy74YxsbMrZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@bresnan.com>   Anders Eklf wrote:  > <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: >  > E >>that leaves only OpenVMS as a secure alternative ... where is HP on  >>this?  >>' >>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12537279/  >  > I > Completlely disregarding the credibility of the site in this context, I 9 > see are several questionable "features" in the article.  > F > First, Apple never claimed Mac OS X was immune to viruses - some MacI > zaelots and others sometimes make that mistake, obviously confusing the ) > lack of existing viruses with immunity. C > It is, however, immune to all 114307 or so known Windows viruses. % > (the number is a moving target ...)  > D > The article doesn't mention a name or designation for the alledgedJ > virus, lending the article some urban legend status. Or a best, a re-run= > of the Inqtana or Oompa proof-of-concept worms (February).   > Old news, that is. > J > There is no reference whatsoever to any antivirus company - or any other* > source you can check, for that matter... > B > The claim that the Intel chips would be more vulnerable than PPC< > "because more people can program them" is as far as I knowC > unsubstantiated. It's the OS that makes the computer more or less > > secure, and you still have to know how to program in the OS. > B > The "experts" mentioned in the header appear to boil down to one > independant consultant.  >  > I think I'll stop at that.  2 Hehe... that's about what I got from them as well.D I still don't run any AV software and haven't been hit in two years.G But you are correct in that is the o/s design that has much to do with  F how vulnerable you are.  Most of these that do target os x are in the E socially engineered variety.  I get lots of spam asking for personal  H information, and the best policy is to delete everything from everybody  you don't know.      --   Where are we going?   And why am I in this handbasket?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 18:00:52 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!: Message-ID: <GdidnbV0fr8qb8rZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@bresnan.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > K >>If the MacIntosh becomes more common, it's security by obscurity security  >>model will fail. >  > B > One needs to look at viri at different levels.  Applications are > generally the culprits.  > E > The problem with windows is that applications come "pre-enabled" on D > Widnows and many users don't know or need about them, but they are > targets for viri.  > C > From the OS point of view, I guess the big question is whether it J > separates data from code so tha typical buffer overflow conditions don't  > result in data being executed. > H > And obviously, does the OS allow some benign application such as a webG > browser to insert data/files in such a deep OS location that it can't @ > even been seen without special tools (think the Sony Rootkit). > H > Imagine, you put in a CD and it automatically changes your SYSBOOT.EXE > with some patch !!!! > H > How much damage can a virus inflict on MACos versus Windows ? It seems4 > that on Windows, any application can do much harm. > I > Microsoft had created so many entrty points  due to marketing pressures G > to enable so many services by default. This is slowly being addresses H > now. But it remains a structural problem of applications being able to > inflict damage to the system.  > H > Do Viri on MacOS really inflict danage to system files, or just to the5 > user files/user process ? That is the big question.  >  > G > In terms of Mozilla/Firefox, it seems to be that bugs are being found G > and being fixed. And that is not specific to an operating system. The J > question is how well is each version of Firefox fitted to each operatingI > system. If it were ported to VMS, would it require CMKRNL ? or would it  > need only TMPMBX and NETMBX ?  > H > On windows it appears that applications have by default the equivalentK > of SETPRV,BYPASS,CMKRNL. What privileges do standard apps have on MacOS ?   % No different than any other UNIX o/s. C If OS X gets hit then it is likely that others may get hit as well. F But I think that most of these so called viruses, which they are not, F usually ask for the system password.  I've had one come up out of the D blue when going to one web site and I didn't give it.  It should be E obvious to everyone here that does or did manage VMS systems what is  F going on here.  VMS has always had a rather large set of priviledges, ! but doesn't PHP get around these?      --   Where are we going?   And why am I in this handbasket?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 20:36:42 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!: Message-ID: <3cCdnbKpG7WGZsrZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  E > that leaves only OpenVMS as a secure alternative ... where is HP on  > this?   ; Where HP, Compaq, and DEC have been since 1995 or so. . . .    VMS?  What's that?   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 01:28:06 +0000 (UTC)1 From: legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!, Message-ID: <e390v6$9dm$2@news.xmission.com>  / [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]   2 GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> spake the secret code6 <24idnWy74YxsbMrZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@bresnan.com> thusly:  K >I still don't run any [Mac] AV software and haven't been hit in two years.   E I haven't run any AV software on any of my Windows boxes for 13 years # and have never been hit by a virus.  --  E "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: 3           <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> ( 	    Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty,                <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:06:31 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!9 Message-ID: <hM2dnRd-xfQQtsXZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Richard wrote:1 > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]  > 4 > GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> spake the secret code8 > <24idnWy74YxsbMrZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@bresnan.com> thusly: > M >> I still don't run any [Mac] AV software and haven't been hit in two years.  > G > I haven't run any AV software on any of my Windows boxes for 13 years % > and have never been hit by a virus.   ? How do you know if you don't have anything to identify malware?   I I guess there is some looseness in the term 'hit by a virus'.  Getting a  I virus or such in a mail message is one thing.  Running the damn thing so   it is active is another.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:05:58 GMT & From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam ()> Subject: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches- Message-ID: <WQP5g.31$U86.8@news.cpqcorp.net>   D Multi-core is basically Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP) implemented# at the level of the processor chip.   F You have a choice of multiprocessing, of using ASTs, or POSIX Threads,E or KP Threads, or some combination of these constructs.  You can also D use various kernel-level constructs, but those are outside the scope: of most application programs and application requirements.   For additional information...   F For a discussion of SMP processing and programming, see Ask The Wizard (ATW) topic (1661).   5 For a discussion of ASTs and threads, see ATW (6099).   ? For a discussion of KP Threads, see the recent OpenVMS manuals. B (KP Threads are how applications that want threading but cannot orA do not use POSIX Threads can avoid creating their own threading.)   C And, of course, see the current/recent programming concepts manuals  in the documentation set.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2006 16:21:45 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches3 Message-ID: <PWnJ5$IJXF$B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <WQP5g.31$U86.8@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam () writes: > F > Multi-core is basically Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP) implemented% > at the level of the processor chip.  > H > You have a choice of multiprocessing, of using ASTs, or POSIX Threads,G > or KP Threads, or some combination of these constructs.  You can also F > use various kernel-level constructs, but those are outside the scope< > of most application programs and application requirements. >  > For additional information...  > H > For a discussion of SMP processing and programming, see Ask The Wizard > (ATW) topic (1661).  > 7 > For a discussion of ASTs and threads, see ATW (6099).  >   B    If I read that right, there are techniques by which ASTs can beB    delivered to multiple threads, and when that is true one cannotE    assume user mode ASTs are serial process wide.  Or did I read too      fast?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:43:38 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approachesG Message-ID: <JeednRp5aNkRT8rZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    JF Mezei wrote: C > Say you are writing some internet server that can accept multiple  > simultaneous connections.  > J > One can write an AST driven application where the parameter given to theC > AST points to a control block that fully describes the connection G > context for that remote user. Or, you could go the multi threaded way G > where each thread acts independantly and waits for input (while other  > threads may be busy).  > @ > On a single CPU, there wouldn't be much difference, unless the2 > processing for each transaction takes long time.  J Incorrect, unless each such transaction performs no disk (or similar) I/O.     For AST driven, nothing E > happens until one transaction completes and the next AST  kicks in.   E Incorrect if the transactions perform disk I/O (or any other lengthy  I operation where the CPU can be freed up to do other work).  If correctly  B written, the current transaction will issue the I/O (or similar - H waiting for a lock might also qualify) request asynchronously, exit the H AST (the operation completion being what wakes up the transaction again E to continue), and make the single CPU available to service any other  $ pending AST for another transaction.      ForG > thread driven the pre-emptive multitasking can suspend one thread and " > give some CPU to another thread.  H Probably not what will actually happen, unless the transactions perform H no disk (or similar) I/O.  Instead, the issuance of the I/O by a thread @ will cause the CPU to suspend it (not preempt it) while the I/O ? executes, making the CPU available to any other waiting thread.    > I > Now, when it comes to multi-core CPUs, is it fair to say that the multi G > threaded approach will win hands down because it will be able to make J > full use of the multiple cores whereas the AST will all be serialised on > one CPU ?   I Only to a point - specifically, the point at which the number of threads  G equals the number of available CPUs.  Beyond that point, using ASTs in  A each of those threads will likely perform better (not only would  I additional threads consume additional resources - e.g., virtual memory -  F but having more threads than processors opens up the possibility that C the threads will compete for individual processors and hence incur  A preemption and things like otherwise unnecessary lock-contention  I overheads that ASTs do not - the same reason why the AST-driven approach  < may be superior for single-processor systems, incidentally).  H Assuming, that is, that Bob's comment about the ability to execute ASTs E concurrently for different threads in a multi-CPU process is correct  F (i.e., that inter-thread behavior resembles inter-process behavior in G this regard; otherwise, you might be better off with a process per CPU  G and some shared memory to use for inter-process coordination, but that   would be noticeably messier).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:19:14 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>- Subject: Re: My employer needs VMS programmer 6 Message-ID: <44581322.AE31A737@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  ! "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote:  >  > David J. Dachtera wrote:F > > "L.A.'s fine but it ain't home", from a song sung by Neil Diamond. > E > New York's home, but it ain't mine no more.  "I Am, I Said." - Neil 	 > Diamond   * Dunno who wrote it, but yeah - he sang it.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:08:24 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: My employer needs VMS programmer 9 Message-ID: <hM2dnRZ-xfRgtsXZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@libcom.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote:# > "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote:  >> David J. Dachtera wrote: F >>> "L.A.'s fine but it ain't home", from a song sung by Neil Diamond.F >> New York's home, but it ain't mine no more.  "I Am, I Said." - Neil
 >> Diamond > , > Dunno who wrote it, but yeah - he sang it. >   I Neil is as much or more a songwriter as a singer, actor, and such.  Most  G likely he wrote the piece.  I don't know of anything he's done that he   hasn't written.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:12:06 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS fanclub in Orkut 6 Message-ID: <44581176.F121E973@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>    "singhal.rishi@gmail.com" wrote: > [snip]H > 2. The young technical community (as per my seeing and believing) does. > not use Usenet (sorry if this is offensive).  1 What do they use? Is there a better forum to use?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 15:41:47 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com6 Subject: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasingQ Message-ID: <OFCC4F53D0.464F697A-ON85257162.006BC420-85257162.006C323E@metso.com>   + $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx # $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact ' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched # $ set message /noiden /nofac /nosev # $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact  No strings matched+ $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   ) In this example the word "no" in the case + where all parts of set message are enabled, % is lower case, but when only /TEXT is $ enabled, the "N" in "No" is upcased.  * Is this a conceit of F$FAO for readability at the expense of easy parsing?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 19:53:32 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>: Subject: Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing- Message-ID: <0NO5g.18$z46.2@news.cpqcorp.net>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: - > $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx % > $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact ) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched % > $ set message /noiden /nofac /nosev % > $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact  > No strings matched- > $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  > + > In this example the word "no" in the case - > where all parts of set message are enabled, ' > is lower case, but when only /TEXT is & > enabled, the "N" in "No" is upcased. > , > Is this a conceit of F$FAO for readability! > at the expense of easy parsing?  >   B It is SYS$GETMSG that upcases the leading character if the ident, B facility, and severity are turned off.  Been that way since day 1.  ; Why are you parsing the output instead of checking $STATUS?    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 20:00:58 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>: Subject: Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing. Message-ID: <_TO5g.21$z46.18@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Reagan wrote:   > D > It is SYS$GETMSG that upcases the leading character if the ident, D > facility, and severity are turned off.  Been that way since day 1.  : My mistake.  SYS$PUTMSG does the upcasing, not SYS$GETMSG.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 20:40:50 GMT  From: hoffman@hp.nospam (): Subject: Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing. Message-ID: <mtP5g.27$T76.18@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <OFCC4F53D0.464F697A-ON85257162.006BC420-85257162.006C323E@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:. |> $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx& |> $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact* |> %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched& |> $ set message /noiden /nofac /nosev& |> $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact |> No strings matched . |> $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |>  , |> In this example the word "no" in the case. |> where all parts of set message are enabled,( |> is lower case, but when only /TEXT is' |> enabled, the "N" in "No" is upcased.   =   This is a longstanding behaviour of the message processing.   - |> Is this a conceit of F$FAO for readability " |> at the expense of easy parsing?  E   Parsing?  Parsing messages can be an indication of a problem within I the application, or within the application design.  (Parsing is generally G a last resort, and not generally a supported approach -- changes due to G internationalization or due to application display changes or upgrades  E can obviously derail applications that parse output text, of course.)   G   If you are searching a log file for potential problems, however, then # the usual target for the search is:        "-E-","-W-","-F-"   C   This functions correctly in many (but not all) application cases.      --  E   On a semi-unrelated note, the GNM tool on the Freeware might be of  F interest, as this allows you to have messages, SDL and its derivative H condition (include or definition) files, and error message and recovery 9 documentation (DOCUMENT SDML files) from one source file.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:34:04 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>: Subject: Re: Q about set mess text initial-letter upcasing6 Message-ID: <4458169C.C1192567@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > - > $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx % > $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact ) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched % > $ set message /noiden /nofac /nosev % > $ search myfile.log; "mytext"/exact  > No strings matched- > $!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  > + > In this example the word "no" in the case - > where all parts of set message are enabled, ' > is lower case, but when only /TEXT is & > enabled, the "N" in "No" is upcased. > , > Is this a conceit of F$FAO for readability! > at the expense of easy parsing?   & Why would that pose a parsing problem?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.244 ************************