1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 05 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 249       Contents: Compressing backup file  Re: Compressing backup file 8 Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses! 5 Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches 5 Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches P Re: Multi-core and SMP CPUs, threads and ASTs (was: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads- Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s - Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s - Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s # Re: Protecting windows from malware # RE: Protecting windows from malware 0 SET ACCOUNTING/DISABLE does not survive a reboot TCPIP/NSLOOKUP question  Re: to bob@instantwhip Re: to bob@instantwhip Re: to bob@instantwhip  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 11:39:53 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>   Subject: Compressing backup file2 Message-ID: <1146849711_3899@sp6iad.superfeed.net>  " VMS 5.5-2, MicroVax 3100, 8Mb RAM.7 Yes, it's an old machine, but it works fine for what it 	 is doing.   8 I am looking at creating a backup file, then compressing/ it, copying it to a PC, and burning it to a CD. 5 The test savesets I'm playing with are in the 200,000 8 to 400,000 block size. Real ones would likely be larger.  : Yes, I could put a CD burner on the VAX, but at this stage7 I'm looking at generating the data first, and where the 6 burner is located isn't my problem yet. Generating the7 backup sets in a reasonable time is my current problem.   . This is for making periodic permanent backups.. They are currently using tape (various TLZ???)4 but having serious reliability problems (dust, etc.)  8 The backup images will be too big to fit on a CD without4 compressing them, and moving them to a PC would lose file attributes.  9 I am able to do this on the VAX using 'zip "-V" ...', but 8 it is very, very, very slow. I'd guess it's at least 10X; slower than creating the original backup saveset (I've only ; let it run for 2 hours before giving up on a test saveset). 1 I'm not  sure the process would finish overnight.   4 Zipping the individual files seems to be faster, but still very slow.  9 I could copy the uncompressed saveset to a windows PC and : do the compression there, but wouldn't be able to automate: it, and I would lose file attributes. I really want to run5 this as an overnight process with the resulting files 7 available to burn in the morning, and the less the user 5 needs to work the better (the easier it is to do, the % more often it is likely to get done).   9 Anyone familiar with doing compression on the a VAX, with : regards to the speed? Would gzip or bzip2 be better/faster' (which would probably lose attributes)?    Any options/discussions?  Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 10:45:21 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: Compressing backup file) Message-ID: <op.s8299vemzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Fri, 05 May 2006 10:43:36 -0700, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to  . reply <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:  @ > In article <1146849711_3899@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Kevin Handy > <kth@srv.net> writes:  > < >> Anyone familiar with doing compression on the a VAX, with= >> regards to the speed? Would gzip or bzip2 be better/faster * >> (which would probably lose attributes)? > I > If you need to compress and save file attributes, ZIP is the way to go. # > Get the latest, greatest version.  > G > Why not stick a faster machine with a big disk in the cluster and use & > that for backups and/or compression? >  and use DVD    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 12:43:18 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukA Subject: Re: DCL versus Unix CLIs, was: Re: File output like Unix ) Message-ID: <e3fh96$plm$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   j In article <1146616707.415114.288360@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:| >> In article <445656D0.A6669895@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:# >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >> >> ] >> >> In article <4452d96f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >> >> > 9 >> >> >"Rob Brown" <mylastname@gmcl.com> wrote in message F >> >> >news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0604281211340.19111@localhost.localdomain... >> >> > I >> >> >> > Why include Unix?  In Unix, no filename (or extension) has any N >> >> >> > implicit meaning.  Applications may impart meaning, but the OS just >> >> >> > don't care. >> >> >>5 >> >> >> I think that the same is true in VMS or RSX.  >> >> >> >> >> >  >> >> >    .DIR  >> >> >  >> >>  >> >> $ dir test.dir' >> >> %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found  >> >> $ edit test.dir  >> >> aaaaaa >> >> ctrl-Z >> >>  >> >> Directory DATA1:[000000] >> >>  >> >> TEST.DIR;1 >> >>  >> >> Total of 1 file. >> >>  >> >> $ typ test.dir >> >> aaaaaa >> >>  >> >> $  >> >> M >> >> A VMS directory may have to have a .DIR extension but that doesn't mean 6 >> >> every file with a .DIR extension is a directory. >> >C >> >However, a .DIR;1 file without the "is a directory" flag set is & >> >generally considered a corruption. >> >P >> It may not be a particularly good idea but there is nothing in the OS to stopR >> you creating such files and you don't need to perform any convoluted actions to >> create such files. R >> Hence the OS doesn't use .DIR;1 to provide an implicit meaning - that this is aQ >> directory. It also needs extra information in the form of the "is a directory"  >> flag. >  > H >But the OS *does* assume that legitimate directory files end in .DIR;1! >   M Yes but that assumption is not by itself enough. As you yourself then go onto G say "a .DIR;1 file has to have its directory bit set to be a bona fide  F directory ". A file having a .DIR;1 is a necessary but not sufficient N condition for a file to be a directory. Hence an extension of .DIR;1 does not J imply that a file is a directory though being a directory in the directoryO heirachy does imply that a file must have a .DIR;1 extension (though see below  K for where deleting a file with the directory bit set but not with a .DIR;1  J extension does seem to show that the OS considers that to be a directory).  L To my mind a filename or extension having an implicit meaning for an OS mustJ mean that a file with that filename or extension can only have one meaning5 (which is obviously the meaning that the OS expects). M If a filename or extension can have multiple meanings and the OS needs extra  M information (in this case the directory bit)  to determine that meaning then  N there is no implicit meaning provided to the OS by that filename or extension.           G >When given [AAA.BBB.CCC], RMS looks for [000000]AAA.DIR;1, and in that F >file it looks for BBB.DIR;1, and in that file it looks for CCC.DIR;1.G >It doesn't look for .THIS or .THAT; it looks for .DIR;1! It seems that G >..DIR;1 is special in that RMS doesn't look for directory files of any  >other type and version number.  > A >Try renaming a .DIR;1 file to a different file type and see what G >happens to your directory! It has to be .DIR;1. If that doesn't give a 2 >special meaning to .DIR;1 I don't know what does. > O To appear in the directory hierachy you are correct but the following indicates * that VMS still considers it a directory :-     Imhub1:create/dir [.test]  Imhub1:edit [.test]a.txt aa  
 [End of file] : 2 lines written to file SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000.TEST]A.TXT;1   Imhub1:dir [.test]  % Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000.TEST]    A.TXT;1    Total of 1 file. Imhub1:ren test.dir test.axp/lo > %RENAME-I-RENAMED, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]TEST.DIR;1 renamed to  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]TEST.AXP;1   Imhub1:dir/full test.axp    Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]  5 TEST.AXP;1                    File ID:  (8663,7392,0) - Size:            1/69         Owner:    [1,1] # Created:     5-MAY-2006 13:18:01.24 ' Revised:     5-MAY-2006 13:34:01.61 (2)  Expires:    <None specified>  Backup:     <No backup recorded> Effective:  <None specified> Recording:  <None specified> Accessed:   <None specified> Attributes: <None specified> Modified:   <None specified>
 Linkcount:  1  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughE File attributes:    Allocation: 69, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 K                     No default version limit, Contiguous, MoveFile disabled "                     Directory fileI Record format:      Variable length, maximum 512 bytes, longest 512 bytes 4 Record attributes:  No carriage control, Non-spanned RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None< File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWE, Group:RE, World:E Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None   Total of 1 file, 1/69 blocks.      Imhub1:del test.axp;*/loD %DELETE-W-FILNOTDEL, error deleting SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]TEST.AXP;10 -RMS-E-MKD, ACP could not mark file for deletion2 -SYSTEM-F-DIRNOTEMPTY, directory file is not empty    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University      F >So, not all .DIR;1 files are directories, but all directories have toD >be .DIR;1 files! And yes -- I didn't forget -- a .DIR;1 file has to8 >have its directory bit set to be a bona fide directory. > G >And if you don't do silly things like create non-dir files that end in ; >..DIR;1 (which is the usual case), .DIR;1 means directory.  >  >[...] >  >AEF >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 08:21:56 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!= Message-ID: <445aeeeb$0$67261$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Richard wrote:1 > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]  > = > Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> spake the secret code ; > <445a857b$0$60785$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> thusly:  >  >  >>Richard wrote: >>H >>>Email is the main transmission vector for Windows malware.  I haven't$ >>>ever used my PC as a mail reader. >> >>Are you sure of that?  >  >  > Am I sure of what?  H That E-mail is that main transmission vector.  I have a hunch that that H spyware from browsing the Internet is an as big problem as E-mail.  You F can't buy filters that filter all spyware.  I have read about writers I writing about net security using three filters and/or scanners, yet they  7 were sure these programs did not catch all the spyware.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2006 07:18:46 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!3 Message-ID: <XMWUdMs84K9b@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <e3e0jd$jkp$2@news.xmission.com>, legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) writes: > H > Another non sequitor.  I didn't say that Windows was secure.  I simplyG > said that in the 13 years I've had Windows boxes that I've never been  > infected with a virus.  F    The current mean time for an uprotected Windows box to get infected'    on the internet is about 20 minutes.   F    That doesn't mean anyone is guaranteed 19 minutes of safe computing/    or that they will be infected at 21 minutes.   D    It's a mean over a large number of systems and outliers certainlyE    exist at both ends of the spread.  A large number of shorter times G    certainly can have influence over a few number of much longer times.   D    It's also good reason not to push your luck.  I've only knowinglyF    been hit by a virus once on a protected system but I've accumulatedH    huge volumes of spyware which have had at least as much affect on me.  ?    I'm also quite surpised that my daughter's system still runs E    considering the failry trusting way she uses applications like IM. C    But then I do scan it from time to time for her and it does have     some protection.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 16:13:10 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!: Message-ID: <6a6ac$445b5d77$50db5015$8098@news.hispeed.ch>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > J > That E-mail is that main transmission vector.  I have a hunch that that J > spyware from browsing the Internet is an as big problem as E-mail.  You H > can't buy filters that filter all spyware.  I have read about writers K > writing about net security using three filters and/or scanners, yet they  9 > were sure these programs did not catch all the spyware.   I My experience in helping out a couple of friends with their PCs recently  H showed that they were both chock full of spyware and telephone diallers.  I Both had the same software firewall, but to be honest, what does someone  H who doesn't know what TCP/IP is, let alone understand what a given port 1 number is for, do when they get a pop-up warning?   E I'd call both competent _home users_, and this is what a lot of this   thread has drifted into.  > I'll second Rob Brown's request to Richard for details of the  precautions he took.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 10:16:38 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!9 Message-ID: <gcmdnXCrOMITwMbZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:H >> the malware on the internet.  Add a NAT router or other such firewall/ >> capabilities, and things become much safer.   > G > What the router can do is to open only ports that you know are using. J > This prevents hackers from using Windows vulnerabilities on little knownD > ports since you have no real way of getting a list of processes on9 > widnows and what ports they are secretely listening to.  > C > However, the router will not protect you from hacks affecting the " > applications that you are using. > H > For instance, when sending an email, you need accesss to outgoing portJ > 25. When a virus on your windows box is sending spam to everyone in yourE > address book, it is sending it out to the outgoing port 25 and your G > router has to let those messages out because it has no way of knowing K > that this it is a covert virus running in the background on your machine.   B WE weren't discussing containing an existing infestation, we were  discussing preventing such.   I If I do not open up any ports for unsolicited packets, then the only way  F such can get in is in response to a packet I sent out.  This at least  stops all unsolicited attempts.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 02:04:51 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approachesG Message-ID: <YsSdnYPQv9WYdsfZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    ...   G > If you must use threads in order to have your workload distributed on G > multiple CPUs, you're already doing your own multitasking and can use J > QIOW instead of ASTs since each thread can handle one connection and you7 > don't care if a thread stops while waiting for input.   E In the second response that I wrote I explained why you indeed often  E *should* care about having more threads active concurrently than can  I actually run.  But if your particular application isn't at all sensitive  F to the degree of multi programming, then by all means just fire off a H bunch of synchronous threads:  it's far easier to understand and handle.  H Do not, however, then complain about not being able to execute multiple D ASTs concurrently on multiple CPUs, because the behavior which that ; would enable can be accomplished in the manner I described.    - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 18:49:12 +08003 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> > Subject: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads vs AST driven approaches1 Message-ID: <e3fah6$k8p$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi JF,  I When it comes to the topic of "ASTs -vs- Threads" I have made my personal L prejudices (all be they founded on fact) abundantly clear here, and in otherK forums, on many occasions. But I think most people end up agreeing that, as F with a whole lot of questions, the answer is "It depends" on what yourJ application is to achieve. If it's a calculation server then maybe threadsE is the way to go, but I contend that with most commercial application B requirements, a server system design founded on the backbone of anJ AST-threaded Communication server is definitely the way to go. (But then I would say that wouldn't I :-)   = Here are a couple of considerations off the top of my head: - C 1) Not everything is thread-safe! If your server is to use Rdb, for 0 instance, then it simply can't work with threadsJ 2) If you have to stop all threads to mutex around something as mundane as' ADD 1 TO CXN_CNT then what's the point? L 3) Only one thread can be in inner-mode at a time, so if you're using RMS or UWSSs then be aware J 3a) Interesting titbit is that inner-mode ASTs are delivered to the threadL that is(if) already in inner-mode. What if there's a user-mode AST active in* another thread? How does that get stopped?J 4) Not that anyone here loves Microsoft but, NT's had a big move away from! threads to Asynchronous Callbacks # 5) Threads are impossible to debug! @ 6) It's just all too hard! They're crap and I don't like 'em :-)  B So IMHO, if you want something to look after your mouse while yourJ soundtrack and video is being processed by something else then go threads.J If you want some poorly-written UNIX crap to be ported to VMS then support& threads. In all other cases uses ASTs.  H > Having a single threaded AST-based server process on a 128 CPU machineF > won't be able to make use of 128 CPUs and will use only one. Right ?  K Well, yes. If you insist on making the question that narrow then "Yes". But K then no one does that do they? No one says "If I have to hop to work then I ! won't get there on time. Right?".   L You have the single threaded AST-based server process allocate the-work to aI pool of  "n" single-threaded Execution Server processes. VMS will happily L spread these Execution Server processes over all of the available CPUs as anF when it seems fit.And, if you really want, you can use CPU affinity toC dedicate one CPU just to your AST-based Communication Server or any K combination of the above. Any inter-process communication is possible and I K rely heavily on mailboxes. Some will contend that that is soooo much slower L then the communication techniques available to threads but, once again, whatI is the application doing? Do you have a test application in mind? Someone J willing to code the Threads version? I'll happily provide the AST version!  L Anyway, if you've now come to the only sensible conclusion available, you'reK about to embark on the quest to develop an AST threaded server. Good start! " Couple of landmines in the way :-(  L a) Do I have to code to monitor the status of all these network connections? Every time? Every Application?I b) How do you restrict access to my server application to only authorized I clients? Furthermore, how can I establish what rights and privileges each ) client is entitled to on the server node? L c) How do I provide the multi-threading capability needed to allow my serverA application to deal with multiple client requests simultaneously? G d) Is there a way to prevent data corruption by encompassing all of the I modifications to my distributed data sources under the ACID-umbrella of a  true Two-Phase Commit?  L But all you wanted to do is write a student enrolment system :-( Why are youL having to worry about all this? Are you going to have to repeat this processL all over again when you want to develop a queue manager system, or a library application?   A wise man once wrote: -K "I have usually found it more economical to use existing middleware than to  write it fresh "  L With that in mind I'm going to send you (under seperate cover) an evaluationH copy of Tier3 V3.1 and the "TIER3 Client/Server Development Manual". YouH don't have to read the manual and test the software, but I can guarantee. that, if you do, your time will not be wasted.   Cheers Richard Maher  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:445AA9ED.AF58E262@teksavvy.com... > Bob Gezelter wrote: I > > The beauty of AST based applications is that the implicit lock (which G > > is really access to the process stack) is limited to one at a time.  > H > My point was that a single threaded AST based application maje be ableG > to take care of multiple clients at the same time, but it will not be J > splitting processing between CPUs. I was asking about the possibility ofI > declaring an application capable of having multiple AST queues that can F > execute on multile CPUs concrrrently.  (and obviously coding so that > this is safe). > G > It wouldn't be a multi-threaded application. But by being able to use B > multiple AST "processors", its throughput would be much greater. > H > Having a single threaded AST-based server process on a 128 CPU machineF > won't be able to make use of 128 CPUs and will use only one. Right ? >  > F > The ability to tell the OS that your application was written so thatI > ASTs can be delivered concurrently on different CPUs would allow one to ( > make full use of the multi-CPU system.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 14:18:08 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Multi-core and SMP CPUs, threads and ASTs (was: Re: Miltu-core CPUs, threads . Message-ID: <A8J6g.174$fx7.8@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Todd wrote: > Bill Todd wrote:  8 > ...to run the several 'worker' threads at normal (not * > AST) level, and use the AST routines...   H    If y'all set out to mix POSIX-style threads and ASTs together in the B same application process, do definitely skim Ask The Wizard topic I (6099).  Any active thread can get hit at any time with an incoming AST,  H for instance, and you can definitely configure things such that you can G have an active thread and an active AST executing entirely in parallel.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 09:50:38 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s9 Message-ID: <yKI6g.4403$ix6.338422@news20.bellglobal.com>   B "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ' news:KNo4g.5$MA5.741@news.uswest.net...  > J > This rumor (the x86 architecture is dead) keeps coming up.  Usually fromH > people who have a vested interested in a competing processor.  AMD hasD > already proved that the x86 architecture can be extended to 64 bit< > computing.  Whether Intel can keep up with AMD, who knows. >  > Mike Ober. >   2 Yep,  x86 won't ever die because of critical mass.  M Back in the early 1980's I was first exposed to both BSD-4.4 and VMS-4.2 and  K was totally convinced UNIX would not survive. Here it is 2006 and combined  L flavours of UNIX/LINUX are everywhere. Maybe this is due to licensing costs F (*NIX was free); maybe this is due to available source code (*NIX was K available) which affected the next generation of engineering + programming  H students; but these other reasons seemed to trump the fact that VMS was - better than UNIX by more than a factor of 10.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2006 14:48:32 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s, Message-ID: <4c16u0F13nb5vU1@individual.net>  9 In article <yKI6g.4403$ix6.338422@news20.bellglobal.com>, , 	"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > D > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ) > news:KNo4g.5$MA5.741@news.uswest.net...  >>K >> This rumor (the x86 architecture is dead) keeps coming up.  Usually from I >> people who have a vested interested in a competing processor.  AMD has E >> already proved that the x86 architecture can be extended to 64 bit = >> computing.  Whether Intel can keep up with AMD, who knows.  >>
 >> Mike Ober.  >> > 4 > Yep,  x86 won't ever die because of critical mass. > O > Back in the early 1980's I was first exposed to both BSD-4.4 and VMS-4.2 and  M > was totally convinced UNIX would not survive. Here it is 2006 and combined  N > flavours of UNIX/LINUX are everywhere. Maybe this is due to licensing costs  > (*NIX was free);    E Unix was anything but free in the 80's.  Afterall, you needed an AT&T  license to run BSD.   H >                  maybe this is due to available source code (*NIX was 
 > available)    B The number of people actually interested in reading the source wasB very likely minimal.  And "available" is a rather ambiguous term. D While BSD shipped with source access to it was, by lucense, limited.9 And even that limited access led to later legal problems.   M >            which affected the next generation of engineering + programming  J > students; but these other reasons seemed to trump the fact that VMS was / > better than UNIX by more than a factor of 10.   G And that is a matter of opinion.  While I like VMS, from the standpoint I of student use Unix always wins in ease of use available (out of the box) I functionality.  Argue it if you want, but I run both Unix and VMS systems I and get to see it first hand.  And, as another data point, back when PC's D were still rather rare, the university had a VMS machine for generalG academic use.  We were the only department on campus with Unix systems. F We were constantly flooded with requests for accounts from students anG faculty who found the VMS system to not meet their needs.  Doesn't mean G either is better or worse as computer systems go, but it does show that F even those who had spent years using VMS went looking for alternatives! as soon as they became available.    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2006 08:54:28 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 6 Subject: Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s, Message-ID: <ZbKeUJdCVNa6@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <4c16u0F13nb5vU1@individual.net>,  .     bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > I > And that is a matter of opinion.  While I like VMS, from the standpoint K > of student use Unix always wins in ease of use available (out of the box) J > functionality. Argue it if you want, but I run both Unix and VMS systems > and get to see it first hand.   C     Can you elaborate on this point? We taught first/second year CS F courses on VMS for many years and ease of use was never an issue. WhatI Unix features do you believe make it significantly easier for a computing  neophyte to grasp?  , > And, as another data point, back when PC'sF > were still rather rare, the university had a VMS machine for generalI > academic use.  We were the only department on campus with Unix systems. H > We were constantly flooded with requests for accounts from students an; > faculty who found the VMS system to not meet their needs.   D    In what way did it not meet their needs? I suspect it was becauseD they wanted to run software someone else had written for Unix and itE wouldn't run "out of the box" on VMS. To me though this is more of an K effect than a cause - had DEC been better about getting VMS into widespread G use in universities ( and keeping it there ) back in the early 80s that I might not have been such an issue - the software they wanted to run would F have been written for VMS, not Unix, and the situation would have been	 reversed.   F    I saw this happen myself at the time. In the early 80s many of the E colleges around here used VMS in their CS courses. However the advent H of relatively cheap systems from other vendors ( primarily Sun ) quicklyD eroded this market. DEC refused to compete effectively against theseJ offerings with cheap VAXen (I had DEC reps at the time tell me they didn'tP care what Sun did, they saw IBM customers as the market they wanted to go after)  M    It's not that there wasn't competetive VAX hardware - a $30,000 VAXStation H could easily handle many multi-user workloads ( and was priced similarlyF to a Sun workstation at the time ), but DEC wouldn't sell a multi-userE VMS license for it ( Sun had multi-user licenses on their boxes ) and C instead wanted you to buy a "VAXServer" offering which had the same 4 CPU and memory capacity but cost well over $100,000.  @    When we stopped teaching on VMS it had nothing to do with theH faculty or students disliking it or feeling Unix was inherently a betterJ teaching environment - it was simply an acknowledgement that the world hadG moved that way and the students would be better served by being exposed ' to the "industry standard" environment.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2006 05:38:25 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com , Subject: Re: Protecting windows from malwareC Message-ID: <1146832705.798696.197520@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Rob Brown wrote:$ > On Thu, 4 May 2006, Richard wrote: > G > > ... a Windows machine could exist without being infected by malware - > > if a few simple precautions are followed.  > E > Sorry, I seem to have come to this discussion late, so apologies if  > I've missed it.  > + > Please list those few simple precautions.  >   , I can list one of them ... pull the plug ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 10:25:46 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: Protecting windows from malwareT Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684013AC2BF@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Rob Brown [mailto:mylastname@gmcl.com]=20  > Sent: May 4, 2006 7:28 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * > Subject: Protecting windows from malware >=20$ > On Thu, 4 May 2006, Richard wrote: >=20J > > ... a Windows machine could exist without being infected by malware=20- > > if a few simple precautions are followed.  >=20H > Sorry, I seem to have come to this discussion late, so apologies if=20 > I've missed it.  >=20+ > Please list those few simple precautions.  >=20	 > Thanks.  >=20 >=20   1. Ensure power light is off. * 2. If power light comes on, repeat step 1.   :-)    [sorry, could not resist ..]  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 17:29:24 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)9 Subject: SET ACCOUNTING/DISABLE does not survive a reboot $ Message-ID: <e3g21j$7af$1@online.de>  G In reply to a recent thread here, I now have SET ACCOUNTING/DISABLE in  F SYSHUTDWN.COM after having moved ACCOUNTNG.DAT off the system disk (I E now specify the node name in a file on a non-system disk).  This was  3 necessary to avoid a shadow merge after a shutdown.   I One poster suggested that I would need SET ACCOUNTING/ENABLE in startup,  H but this is not the case; accounting works normally.  (Perhaps there is D a SET ACCOUNTING/ENABLE, explicitly or implicitly, somewhere in the 	 startup.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 10:40:16 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: TCPIP/NSLOOKUP question) Message-ID: <op.s8291egczgicya@hyrrokkin>    Under TCPIP5.4,5 & 6    F Periodically add spam filters as the traffic begins to mount and using NSLOOKUP observed following    ODIN> nslookup 64.233.183.114  Server:  Kednos.COM  Address:  206.55.236.245  B *** Kednos.COM can't find 64.233.183.114: Non-existent host/domain  # OK, that is understandable, but ...      ODIN> nslookup 209.216.202.165 Server:  Kednos.COM  Address:  206.55.236.245  8 *** Kednos.COM can't find 209.216.202.165: Server failed  2 Server failed?  Why is that and what does it mean?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 May 2006 00:28:51 -0700  From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: to bob@instantwhip C Message-ID: <1146814131.235872.238340@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Whatever the question, the answers are always
 1) tcpware 2) purveyor  3) dibol :) Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 13:04:58 GMT ; From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com>  Subject: Re: to bob@instantwhip > Message-ID: <_3I6g.66661$_S7.15680@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>   dooleys@snowy.net.au wrote:  > Whatever the question, > the answers are always > 1) tcpware
 > 2) purveyor 
 > 3) dibol > :) > Phil > A If any one else feels left out of a converstation of how Digital  I Synergy's 26 years of experience of supporting VMS customers could be of  8 assistance to them (shameless plug), please call me too.  
 Jeff Coffield  Digital Synergy, Inc.  (949) 650-0526   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 00:06:33 +0930 * From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au> Subject: Re: to bob@instantwhip 0 Message-ID: <125ms7v1ri5ob84@corp.supernews.com>   Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: > dooleys@snowy.net.au wrote:  >  >> Whatever the question,  >> the answers are always 
 >> 1) tcpware  >> 2) purveyor >> 3) dibol  >> :)  >> Phil  >>C > If any one else feels left out of a converstation of how Digital  K > Synergy's 26 years of experience of supporting VMS customers could be of  : > assistance to them (shameless plug), please call me too. >  > Jeff Coffield  > Digital Synergy, Inc.  > (949) 650-0526  B I'm just curious why mail to bob@instantwhip.com was not employed G considering that would have been the less public method for attracting  I attention (if that's not too oxymoronic).  Must be late in the week when  ) stuff like this prompts a few keystrokes.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.249 ************************