1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 10 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 258       Contents: ANN: LN$SDA freeware ANN: LN$SDA freeware Re: ANN: LN$SDA freewareP Re: H P To Launch Multi Million Dollar Ad Campaign For The PC [WASRe:  OT: Intel/ Re: Licenses and Support for OpenVMS VAX V5.5.2 ) Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!  New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem  Re: New VAX Problem - Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s - Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s - Re: TAB character in DCL command-line editing - Re: TAB character in DCL command-line editing - Re: TAB character in DCL command-line editing M Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability) M RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability) P RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)  vP RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)  vP Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)  vL RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows vulnerability)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 15:28:14 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>  Subject: ANN: LN$SDA freeware * Message-ID: <4460FB5E.5040603@goatley.com>  G LN$SDA is a SDA extension (using the API first documented for VMS V7.2) G which displays logical names. Logical names can be specified by name or G by value and optionally using wildcards (normal VMS wildcards * and %). G The logical name tables of the currently selected process in SDA and/or  shared tables are searched.   B LN$SDA can be used to look at a crash dump or at a running system.   LN$SDA4 Description: 	SDA extension to display logical names Version: 	V1.0. Author: 	Ian Miller <miller@encompasserve.org> Architecture:  	AXP,IA64 Size: 		221 blocks Language: 	C, URL: 		http://www.encompasserve.org/~miller/ Released: 	9-MAY-2006    http://www.process.com/openvms/   6 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip; http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip   2 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip7 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip    And on the other mirrors soon.   Thanks, Ian!   -- Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ B PreciseMail Anti-Spam Gateway for OpenVMS, Tru64, Solaris, & Linux9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 15:28:50 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>  Subject: ANN: LN$SDA freeware * Message-ID: <4460FB82.5050405@goatley.com>  G LN$SDA is a SDA extension (using the API first documented for VMS V7.2) G which displays logical names. Logical names can be specified by name or G by value and optionally using wildcards (normal VMS wildcards * and %). G The logical name tables of the currently selected process in SDA and/or  shared tables are searched.   B LN$SDA can be used to look at a crash dump or at a running system.   LN$SDA4 Description: 	SDA extension to display logical names Version: 	V1.0. Author: 	Ian Miller <miller@encompasserve.org> Architecture:  	AXP,IA64 Size: 		221 blocks Language: 	C, URL: 		http://www.encompasserve.org/~miller/ Released: 	9-MAY-2006    http://www.process.com/openvms/   6 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip; http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip   2 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip7 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/ln_sda.zip    And on the other mirrors soon.   Thanks, Ian!   -- Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ B PreciseMail Anti-Spam Gateway for OpenVMS, Tru64, Solaris, & Linux9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 20:25:23 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: ANN: LN$SDA freeware 6 Message-ID: <44614103.E52CA029@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Hunter Goatley wrote:  > I > LN$SDA is a SDA extension (using the API first documented for VMS V7.2) I > which displays logical names. Logical names can be specified by name or I > by value and optionally using wildcards (normal VMS wildcards * and %). I > The logical name tables of the currently selected process in SDA and/or  > shared tables are searched.  > D > LN$SDA can be used to look at a crash dump or at a running system.  7 Hey! Is that ever choice! Gonna add that to my toolkit!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 01:31:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: H P To Launch Multi Million Dollar Ad Campaign For The PC [WASRe:  OT: Intel , Message-ID: <44617A88.9334DCC2@teksavvy.com>  * Saw their ad on TV tonight.  BLAH. Boring.  C I don't recall if there was the intel tune at the end of not. If it H isn't there, it is going to be an interesting development, indicating HP is truly warming up to AMD.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 21:48:57 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: Licenses and Support for OpenVMS VAX V5.5.29 Message-ID: <DMKdnfCfSqtI2PzZnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@libcom.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Bob Koehler wrote:I >> In article <L9WdnfVuIpC_Xf3ZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble    >> <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:= >>> Now, does HP still sell licenses and SUPPORT for VAX/VMS?  >>B >>    OpenVMS 5.5-2 originally sold as (and it's boot header says)@ >>    VAX/VMS 5.5-2.  HP's roadmap showsthat HP plans to supportB >>    this version at least until 2011 with 24 months announcement% >>    prior to actual end of support.  > G >   I expect you would purchase a current-version software license for  K > OpenVMS VAX (which typically includes the right to use previous versions  H > in most of the incarnations of the license agreements I've seen), and H > you would also then purchase a Prior Version Support Contract for the F > V5.5-2 release.  So yes, you can purchase and obtain support.  (The 2 > baseline part numbers are in the SPD, as usual.) > J >   It would not surprise me to see various similar purchases (or license 9 > transfers) for the SRI CHARON-VAX VAX emulator package.  > I >   If you want to purchase the OpenVMS VAX license (and if the purchase  J > should become derailed within the normal sales channels), I can get you B > hooked with the proper folks over in the licensing-related area. >   F I'm sorry Steve.  I got you confused.  I was being sarcastic to Kerry B Main because he was trying to justify things not getting fixed in D VAX/VMS by saying old versions of Solaris and Windows are no longer F being supported.  My reply was that those old versions were no longer H being sold, nor was support available for them.  In comparison, VAX/VMS E is still available, and support for it is still available.  I didn't  ! think his argument was very good.   I I'm aware that both licenses and support are available for VAX, and yes,  B I'm aware of the question of where to put limited resources.  I'd E normally agree that the future is more important than the past.  But  E when TCP/IP is still offered for VAX, and some part of it is broken,  E there should be some effort when people are still purchasing support.    To quote JF:  D In the case of the current BIND for VMS on VAX (Bind 8) there are a I number of vulnerabilities and HP hasn't issued any statements to confirm  C or deny that they apply to VMS.  Is there anyone left at the TCPIP   Services group ?  9 However, I'm not implying JF has a support contract.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 20:16:11 +0000 (UTC)1 From: legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) 2 Subject: Re: Mac OS X no longer immune to viruses!, Message-ID: <e3qtab$935$1@news.xmission.com>  / [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]   N andekl_no@saaf_spam.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_Ekl=F6f?=) spake the secret code7 <1hf35v3.196xhd75klkmnN%andekl_no@saaf_spam.se> thusly:   > >Which still leaves the question - how do you read your mail ?  @ *nix shell account.  I have accumulated a set of shell tools andC utilities for reading news and mail on a *nix shell since 1988.  As B long as shell access is readily available to me, I see no point inD abandoning those perfectly good tools just so I can point and click.F There will probably be some point where using these tools is no longerF productive, in which case I'll switch to something else.  But for now," "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". --  E "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: 3           <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> ( 	    Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty,                <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2006 19:31:27 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: New VAX Problem, Message-ID: <4cc90fF14v6vaU1@individual.net>  C Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance once G again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead Sergeant G on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restart D the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and theD console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems IH could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band-D aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions* about how I go about troubleshooting this?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 16:17:10 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: New VAX Problem/ Message-ID: <G5GdnY0Tu92NZf3ZRVn-hg@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance once I > again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead Sergeant I > on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restart F > the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and theF > console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems IJ > could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band-F > aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions, > about how I go about troubleshooting this? >  > bill >    Complete power cycle.    Test the power supplies.  A Unless a CPU is completely shot, you'll usually get some type of  G response.  Usually POST runs until it hits the problem.  But bad power  " will keep anything from happening.   Do disks spin up?    Other parts of the system?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2006 15:33:50 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: New VAX Problem3 Message-ID: <tHL8$ywcQ9Ns@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4cc90fF14v6vaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   E > Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance once I > again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead Sergeant I > on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restart F > the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and theF > console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems IJ > could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band-F > aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions, > about how I go about troubleshooting this?  @ My opinion is that you should post the VAX model to this thread.& That might help the "remote analysis".   ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2006 22:48:07 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: New VAX Problem, Message-ID: <4cckh7F14n2nkU1@individual.net>  / In article <G5GdnY0Tu92NZf3ZRVn-hg@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance onceJ >> again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead SergeantJ >> on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restartG >> the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and the G >> console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems I K >> could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band- G >> aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions - >> about how I go about troubleshooting this?  >>   >> bill  >>   >  > Complete power cycle.   F Tried it several times.  Terminal too, incase it got some garbage sent& to it that locked it up.  No response.   >  > Test the power supplies.  D I am not sure, but I thought this box had redundant supplies.  Would, multiple power supplies fail simultaneously?   > C > Unless a CPU is completely shot, you'll usually get some type of  I > response.  Usually POST runs until it hits the problem.  But bad power  $ > will keep anything from happening.  G Got nothing, nada, zilch.  Would a bad CPU 0 do that if the others were  OK?    >  > Do disks spin up?   E Disks are on the CI.  I connected a terminal to the HSJ and all seems  well over there.  E I don't think that would keep the console from working, anyway.  Just  keep it from booting.  Right?    >  > Other parts of the system?  F What other parts?  I have the big box that is the VAX and the HSJ thatF is the storage.  Looks like I do this the bad way and roll a whole newC cabinet in.  Maybe tomorrow, although I currently have one arm in a " sling and it really slows me down.   Thanks.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2006 22:53:53 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: New VAX Problem, Message-ID: <4ccks1F14n2nkU2@individual.net>  3 In article <tHL8$ywcQ9Ns@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y > In article <4cc90fF14v6vaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > F >> Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance onceJ >> again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead SergeantJ >> on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restartG >> the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and the G >> console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems I K >> could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band- G >> aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions - >> about how I go about troubleshooting this?  > B > My opinion is that you should post the VAX model to this thread.( > That might help the "remote analysis".  H Yeah, I know, but the problem is I never seem to remember what the modelH is.  We went thru this when I was trying to identify it originally.  BigF box, 4 CPUs.  Got three of them.  They were a gift.  :-)  This one hasH worked well for two semesters.  Hate to see it die now as there is neverD going to be any maintenance money for them.  Once they all pass on I$ could find myself without VMS again.  E Unless there is someone out here with a couple of decent Alpha's they E want to donate to keep VMS in academia?  (More on this later, suffice D it to say that the first response I got to my VMS vs. Unix survey of5 the faculty was rather surprising!!  At least to me.)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 00:24:12 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: New VAX Problem/ Message-ID: <Moa8g.301$UP3.55@news.cpqcorp.net>   4 Please go figure out exactly what VAX you have here.  E Potential VAX boxes include multiple members of the VAX 6000 series,  C multiple members of the VAX 7000 series, the VAX 8840, the VAX 9000 I series, the VAX 10000 boxes -- all these boxes can offer four processors  I in a big box, and I think all these also have some form of console fault  G light.  And there are definitely a number of differences lurking among   these various VAX boxes.  B The usual suspects for a fault such as this can include the power E supplies -- and yes, redundant power supplies can fail sequentially,  B either quickly, or I've seen systems quietly limping along with a F failure that isn't noticed until the back-up fails -- and (obviously) D various other core components.   If you have access to a functional D console prompt, then you can usually get some form of diagnostic or G fault displayed on power-up -- though a functional console prompt on a  I microprocessor-based VAX does also imply a fair quantity of the hardware  I is working correctly.  (VAX systems with external consoles can be rather   more solidly dead, however.)  G I've seen various Itanium-based Integrity boxes sell for under US$1000  E on eBay, and used newer Alpha hardware aren't particularly expensive  < these days.  These older VAX boxes are big and hot and slow.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2006 00:57:43 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: New VAX Problem, Message-ID: <4ccs46F152461U1@individual.net>  / In article <Moa8g.301$UP3.55@news.cpqcorp.net>, / 	Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes: 6 > Please go figure out exactly what VAX you have here. > G > Potential VAX boxes include multiple members of the VAX 6000 series,  E > multiple members of the VAX 7000 series, the VAX 8840, the VAX 9000 K > series, the VAX 10000 boxes -- all these boxes can offer four processors  K > in a big box, and I think all these also have some form of console fault  I > light.  And there are definitely a number of differences lurking among   > these various VAX boxes.  D I went back thru the archives and it was determined that my machines are 7000's.    > D > The usual suspects for a fault such as this can include the power G > supplies -- and yes, redundant power supplies can fail sequentially,  D > either quickly, or I've seen systems quietly limping along with a H > failure that isn't noticed until the back-up fails -- and (obviously) F > various other core components.   If you have access to a functional F > console prompt, then you can usually get some form of diagnostic or I > fault displayed on power-up -- though a functional console prompt on a  K > microprocessor-based VAX does also imply a fair quantity of the hardware  K > is working correctly.  (VAX systems with external consoles can be rather   > more solidly dead, however.)  E Well, the concensus seemed to be "roll another box in and see what it > does".  I fear I have my first dead one.  :-(  Two more to go.   > I > I've seen various Itanium-based Integrity boxes sell for under US$1000  G > on eBay, and used newer Alpha hardware aren't particularly expensive  > > these days.  These older VAX boxes are big and hot and slow.  E Big, hot, slow (not really when you only have a half dozen users on a D 4 CPU box) and free.  I've been over this before.  VMS stays here asD long as the cost is something real close to $0.00.  I have been ableG to get the needed power to ruin the various systems I have gone through H but they are not going ot buy anything.  And as for Ebay, I don't expectI to ever use it again.  50% rip-off percentage is kind of a turn off.  And  I trust PayPal even less.    Thanks for the info.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 20:23:33 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: New VAX Problem6 Message-ID: <44614095.FB90D0AF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 5 > In article <tHL8$ywcQ9Ns@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 9 >         Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: [ > > In article <4cc90fF14v6vaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > > H > >> Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance onceL > >> again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead SergeantL > >> on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restartI > >> the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and the I > >> console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems I M > >> could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band- I > >> aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions / > >> about how I go about troubleshooting this?  > > D > > My opinion is that you should post the VAX model to this thread.* > > That might help the "remote analysis". > J > Yeah, I know, but the problem is I never seem to remember what the modelJ > is.  We went thru this when I was trying to identify it originally.  BigH > box, 4 CPUs.  Got three of them.  They were a gift.  :-)  This one hasJ > worked well for two semesters.  Hate to see it die now as there is neverF > going to be any maintenance money for them.  Once they all pass on I& > could find myself without VMS again.  E Sounds like it might be a 6000 of some kind, possibly 7000. Next time % you get VMS running on it, ask it to:   ( $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "hw_name" )  G > Unless there is someone out here with a couple of decent Alpha's they * > want to donate to keep VMS in academia?   * Have you been in touch with Sue Skonetski?   > (More on this later, sufficeF > it to say that the first response I got to my VMS vs. Unix survey of7 > the faculty was rather surprising!!  At least to me.)   ) Perchance, are you at liberty to divulge?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 21:30:24 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: New VAX Problem/ Message-ID: <X7qdnfqtap3n3PzZRVn-sw@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:1 > In article <G5GdnY0Tu92NZf3ZRVn-hg@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: G >>> Well, here I come back with hat in hand looking for assistance once K >>> again.  I just stepped into the computer room to find the Dead Sergeant K >>> on the console and the fault light lit ont he VAX.  Attempts to restart H >>> the system result in nothing.  The fault light comes back on and theH >>> console is unresponsive.  The good news is I have two more systems IL >>> could always roll into place but that is hardly a solution, only a band-H >>> aid.  Eventually, I run out of systems.  Anybody got any suggestions. >>> about how I go about troubleshooting this? >>>  >>> bill >>>  >> Complete power cycle. > H > Tried it several times.  Terminal too, incase it got some garbage sent( > to it that locked it up.  No response. >  >> Test the power supplies.  > F > I am not sure, but I thought this box had redundant supplies.  Would. > multiple power supplies fail simultaneously?  2 Don't know.  My systems aren't that sophisticated.  D >> Unless a CPU is completely shot, you'll usually get some type of J >> response.  Usually POST runs until it hits the problem.  But bad power % >> will keep anything from happening.  > I > Got nothing, nada, zilch.  Would a bad CPU 0 do that if the others were  > OK?   > If I had to guess, I'd say possibly.  But I really don't know.   >> Do disks spin up? > G > Disks are on the CI.  I connected a terminal to the HSJ and all seems  > well over there.  I I was thinking local disks, and that would say something about the power.   G > I don't think that would keep the console from working, anyway.  Just  > keep it from booting.  Right?  >  >> Other parts of the system?  > H > What other parts?  I have the big box that is the VAX and the HSJ thatH > is the storage.  Looks like I do this the bad way and roll a whole newE > cabinet in.  Maybe tomorrow, although I currently have one arm in a $ > sling and it really slows me down. > 	 > Thanks.  >  > bill >    >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2006 20:54:33 -0700 ; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: New VAX ProblemC Message-ID: <1147233273.424946.273500@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: **snip**J > but they are not going ot buy anything.  And as for Ebay, I don't expectK > to ever use it again.  50% rip-off percentage is kind of a turn off.  And  > I trust PayPal even less.   @ I guess it depends on what you buy.  From late 2003 to date I'veC completed 254 transactions on Ebay with only 3 that come to mind as ? being ripoffs.  I've bought 2 AS1200's, 2 AS800's, 2 DS10L's, 2 D XP1000's, 3 DS20e clones (Microway 264DP ), about 100 disk drives ofF various sizes (9, 18, 36GB), about 20GB of memory for these systems, 2G pair of HSG80's, a TL892 tape library, a SSL2020 AIT2 dual tape library G and countless other pieces to glue them all together.  I got zonked the D worst on 20 "factory refurbished" 9GB SCSI drives where 17 of the 20E were DOA and the guy wouldn't take them back.  The next worst was the E guy that sold me 2 KGPSA-CX's (Windows/PC FC HBA) for $250 each after C claiming they were the -CY (VMS) version.  I tracked down his phone D number and filled his answering machine up for weeks but never got aE reply.  I wouldn't have had these problems if I had stuck to my rules G about negative feedback, but they each at the time were things I really F needed so I took a chance and came up short.  I did eventually use theC KGPSA's in a couple of Linux systems I built but I way overpaid for  them.   A The next adventure comes this summer when I sell off some of this E stuff.  Paypal has worked great for me in all these purchases so far. + I'll see what happens when I begin selling.   D I wish I'd seen Hoff's $1K Integrity systems as I'd like to get one.F The best I've seen was a rx2620 that went for $2500.  It was a bargainG with 2 1.5GHz processors and 2 or 4GB of memory with 2 36GB hard drives D but since the Hobbyist IA64 licenses are not yet available I figuredE I'd have a hard time getting the PO past the family financial officer 9 (my wife - a VERY understanding lady but she has limits).   ) Well, I'm rambling...  that's it for now.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 15:59:24 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s9 Message-ID: <ysydndoV3dx7bv3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <1gYsPmJ9rYEa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:s >> In article <OF51CACFCF.BCEC670B-ON85257169.00591F9F-85257169.005972CC@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: @ >>> When I took the "Introduction to HP-UX" course, and told theE >>> instructor that I came from a VMS background, he said IIRC that I G >>> would find some things familiar, but most things harder to do, from F >>> a system-management perspective.  I never really got the chance toK >>> work with Unix enough develop insights.  VMS has been it for some time. # >>    As with all UNIX, it depends.  >>I >>    BSD is somewhat harder to administer than VMS.  SVID is much harder D >>    than either BSD or VMS.  SVID has too many ways to enter adminL >>    data and then not be able to query the setting someone made last year. > F > There's that matter of opinion again, stated as a matter of fact.  II > have been admining Unix for over 2 decades and at his point I have been G > admining VMS for over a decade.  Personally, I have always found Unix H > easier.  BSD is easier than SYSV, but both are easier than VMS (IMHO).8 > Oh yeah, I have also done Version 7 and SYS III.  :-)  >  > bill >   = I've never used Unix.  Maybe I'm missing out on a good thing?   D So Ok, what do you like better about administering Unix vs VMS.  Be 	 specific.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2006 00:15:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: Intels quickens cadence for new 8086s, Message-ID: <4ccpkdF15aphuU1@individual.net>  9 In article <ysydndoV3dx7bv3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:6 >> In article <1gYsPmJ9rYEa@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: t >>> In article <OF51CACFCF.BCEC670B-ON85257169.00591F9F-85257169.005972CC@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:A >>>> When I took the "Introduction to HP-UX" course, and told the F >>>> instructor that I came from a VMS background, he said IIRC that IH >>>> would find some things familiar, but most things harder to do, fromG >>>> a system-management perspective.  I never really got the chance to L >>>> work with Unix enough develop insights.  VMS has been it for some time.$ >>>    As with all UNIX, it depends. >>> J >>>    BSD is somewhat harder to administer than VMS.  SVID is much harderE >>>    than either BSD or VMS.  SVID has too many ways to enter admin M >>>    data and then not be able to query the setting someone made last year.  >>  G >> There's that matter of opinion again, stated as a matter of fact.  I J >> have been admining Unix for over 2 decades and at his point I have beenH >> admining VMS for over a decade.  Personally, I have always found UnixI >> easier.  BSD is easier than SYSV, but both are easier than VMS (IMHO). 9 >> Oh yeah, I have also done Version 7 and SYS III.  :-)   >>   > ? > I've never used Unix.  Maybe I'm missing out on a good thing?  > F > So Ok, what do you like better about administering Unix vs VMS.  Be  > specific.   F Don't know that I really can be very specific.  I learned enough aboutG Unix to be able to install, run and admin systems commercially in days. F I have been admining VMS for over 10 years and still often find myslefH at a total loss for how to do simple tasks.  You see the kind of queriesE I often post here when I get really baffled.  On the Unix side of the H house I have been answering those kinds of question since about my firstF year of working with it.  I am not particularly slow, and have adminedE a number of different OSes, and I find VMS to be about the hardest to  do well.   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2006 19:58:09 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: TAB character in DCL command-line editing* Message-ID: <4460f451@news.langstoeger.at>  p In article <OF13CCDBDF.172B5C57-ON85257169.0053999D-85257169.0053F68A@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:C >It's a matter of style.  One is much more likely to use TAB's in a H >command procedure (for readablity).  I suppose one could cut/paste from@ >the procedure onto the command line and encounter this problem.  K You can't cut/paste a tab into the command line. At least not with MOTIF...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 17:53:48 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com6 Subject: Re: TAB character in DCL command-line editingQ Message-ID: <OF41CED6AE.61A51A5D-ON85257169.007827A8-85257169.0078488B@metso.com>   D peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote on 05/09/2006 02:58:09 PM:  ? > In article <OF13CCDBDF.172B5C57-ON85257169.0053999D-85257169. 5 > 0053F68A@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: E > >It's a matter of style.  One is much more likely to use TAB's in a J > >command procedure (for readablity).  I suppose one could cut/paste fromB > >the procedure onto the command line and encounter this problem. > D > You can't cut/paste a tab into the command line. At least not with MOTIF...  H True, and I can't with my emulator either, but I can from my e-mail into my emulator.   >  > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 20:14:08 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>6 Subject: Re: TAB character in DCL command-line editing6 Message-ID: <44613E60.85A47A05@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > G > "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote on 05/09/2006 10:53:42 AM:  >  > > 2 > > "Fred Bach" <music@triumf.ca> wrote in message& > > news:445BB014.3040602@triumf.ca... > > > B > > >    I have a strange problem.  I have checked the OpenVMS FAQA > > >    and the DCL dictionary and the OpenVms Users Manual, and < > > >    I searched google.  No information was forthcoming. > > > B > > >    The problem is this:  Inserting a TAB anywhere on the DCLD > > >    command line prevents inserting characters using Control-A.A > > >    DELETE still works, but no characters can be inserted on F > > >    my DCL command lines here as long as there is a tab character > > >    present.  > > >  > >  > > 4 > > I always had this problem, ever since VMS 4.x...1 > > Before that, I wasn't using VMS, just RSTS...  > > K > > I never tried to go around it. How often does one use TAB in a command?  > D > It's a matter of style.  One is much more likely to use TAB's in aI > command procedure (for readablity).  I suppose one could cut/paste from A > the procedure onto the command line and encounter this problem.   G Not sure how that would happen. The terminal programs I've seen to date H (including DECterm) all expand TABs to spaces; so, when you're selectingB the text from the display you're taking it as spaces and not TABs.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 16:12:25 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> V Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)/ Message-ID: <G5GdnZITu91pa_3ZRVn-hg@libcom.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:e > In article <L9WdnfVuIpC_Xf3ZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: < >> Now, does HP still sell licenses and SUPPORT for VAX/VMS? > A >    OpenVMS 5.5-2 originally sold as (and it's boot header says) ? >    VAX/VMS 5.5-2.  HP's roadmap showsthat HP plans to support A >    this version at least until 2011 with 24 months announcement $ >    prior to actual end of support. >   D I'm hoping you're not just answering my question.  I knew that.  My C point is that Kerry was comparing support on old Sun and Microsoft  ? versions with support on VAX/VMS, trying to justify not having  E fixes/support for TCP/IP on VAX/VMS.  HP is glad to take the support  I money from VAX users, but doesn't seem as willing to provide the support   for which they took money.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 00:03:49 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> V Subject: RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684013ACC82@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20  > Sent: May 9, 2006 4:12 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re:=20  > X windows vulnerability) >=20 > Bob Koehler wrote:@ > > In article <L9WdnfVuIpC_Xf3ZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@libcom.com>,=20+ > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > > >> Now, does HP still sell licenses and SUPPORT for VAX/VMS? > >=20C > >    OpenVMS 5.5-2 originally sold as (and it's boot header says) A > >    VAX/VMS 5.5-2.  HP's roadmap showsthat HP plans to support C > >    this version at least until 2011 with 24 months announcement & > >    prior to actual end of support. > >=20 >=20H > I'm hoping you're not just answering my question.  I knew that.  My=20G > point is that Kerry was comparing support on old Sun and Microsoft=20 C > versions with support on VAX/VMS, trying to justify not having=20 I > fixes/support for TCP/IP on VAX/VMS.  HP is glad to take the support=20 A > money from VAX users, but doesn't seem as willing to provide=20  > the support=20 > for which they took money. >=20  F You missed the point I was making (or at least trying to make). JF didD not even know if there was a problem or not but just that he had notG heard personally as to whether it applied to VAX/VMS or not. Because he F had not heard, he inferred that perhaps there were no $'s available or. resources left looking at issues like this.=20  F In my experience, any security issue is typically taken very seriouslyE at HP - not only with OpenVMS, but other HP OS's as well. There is no G conspiracy to purposely not release security patches on OpenVMS to save  $'s or time or whatever ..  8 Btw, VAX/VMS V7.3 is now 5 years old (May 2001 release).   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 15:52:18 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)  v T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684013ACB7B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20  > Sent: May 9, 2006 12:18 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re:=20 ; > X windows vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability)=20 = > vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability)  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- < > >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20 > >> Sent: May 8, 2006 9:58 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD > >> Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re:=20; > >> X windows vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability)  > >> > >> "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > >>> Bottom line is that as I stated in earlier thread, no=20 > >> vendor plans their ) > >>> platform to be secure by obscurity. / > >> The lack of VMS exposure makes it obscure.  > >>D > >> The lack of HP press releases to confirm that VMS version of=20 > >> a software B > >> does not suffer from a vulnerability just published leaves=20 > VMS out in@ > >> the dark, with customers wondering if there is somebody =20 > left to even, > >> verify that VMS is or isn't vulnerable. > >>H > >> In the case of the current BIND for VMS on VAX (Bind 8) there are aE > >> number of vulnerabilities and HP hasn't issued any statements=20  > >> to confirm G > >> or deny that they apply to VMS.  Is there anyone left at the TCPIP  > >> Services group ?  > >> > >=20@ > > I am not familiar with whether any of these BIND 8 issues=20
 > you mention ! > > are applicable or not to VAX.  >=204 > I like ya Kerry, but you can't get away with such! >=20 > > Having stated that - > >=20= > > Are there any resources left at Sun putting the latest=20  > security fixes > > into Solaris 2/6?  >=20) > Does Sun still sell/supply Solaris 2/6?  >=20  D Don't know .. Are you saying Sun does not support its older Customer base?   C If this is the case, then you would have to ask Sun why they do not C support their older Customer base like HP does with VAX's and other   older Alpha versions of OpenVMS.  < > > Are there any resources left at Microsoft putting the=20 > latest security A > > fixes into NT3.51?  Even NT4 has not been updated with all=20  > the security! > > patches for quite awhile now.  >=20/ > Does Microsoft still sell NT3.51?  NT4?  W2K?  >=20  G W2K yes. I highly doubt the other versions, but all of them still exist C in many Customer environments today (yes, even NT3.51). NT4 base is  really, really huge.  C You would have to ask Microsoft why they do not support their older G Customer base like HP does with VAX's and other older Alpha versions of  OpenVMS.  ? > > Keep in mind that Microsoft itself is focussing fixes on=20  > Windows XP SP11 > > and later (not even base Windows XP anymore).  >=20; > Now, does HP still sell licenses and SUPPORT for VAX/VMS?  >=20  1 Hardware - No. Some specific versions of VAX/VMS. ; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/openvms_supportchart.html   D Point is that HP has imho, done a whole lot better job of supportingH older platforms than some of the other vendors mentioned in this thread.     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 16:13:26 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)  v T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684013ACB8E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----= > From: Peter Weaver [mailto:newsonly@weaverconsulting.ca]=20  > Sent: May 9, 2006 9:42 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re:=20 8 > X windows vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability) >=207 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message=20 @ > news:FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684013AC92B@tayexc19.america > s.cpqcorp.net... >=20 > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com] > >...@ > > The lack of HP press releases to confirm that VMS version of > > a softwareI > > does not suffer from a vulnerability just published leaves VMS out=20  > > inG > > the dark, with customers wondering if there is somebody  left to=20  > > even+ > > verify that VMS is or isn't vulnerable.  > >... >=20 > Kerry, >=20? > Maybe you can dismiss JF's question when he uses a VAX for=20  > his example=20I > (but I do not think you should considering how many VAX machines are=20 I > still out there, as a CHARON-VAX reseller I get to meet a lot of VAX=20 E > people who have not seen anyone from HP, Compaq or DEC since the=20 G > Palmer days; If HP made half an effort they could easily get these=20 H > customers back since most of these people really believe VMS is the=20J > best OS out there), but the next time Sun releases a statement saying=20I > that Java has a security bug just try to get an answer from HP about=20 G > Java on VMS. A few months back a company I contract for received a=20 G > notice that Java had a security problem. Because of this company's=20 J > security policy I had to either upgrade Java or document that VMS was=20? > safe. After many days and many emails the final answer was=20  > that HP did=20I > not know exactly what the bug was and if it would cause any problems=20 > > on a VMS system, but the next release would be based on a=20 > version that=20 J > did not have the bug. The worst part was that the Java/VMS people did=20H > not even know about the security advisory until my question came in=20C > yet the advisory mentioned that IBM's version of Java was safe=20  >=20     Peter,  F I was not trying to "dismiss" JF's comments, and I know there are manyG VAX's out there today. However, the marketing thread has been beaten to G death a kazillion times in this conference - and not just with OpenVMS, * but HP's other enterprise OS's as well.=20  H Btw - no promises, but drop me a line offline, let me know what versionsC you are using, who you talked to and I will see what I can find out & about the Java issue you mentioned.=20   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 21:54:35 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows  vulnerability)  v 9 Message-ID: <NtOdndZiK5-62vzZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@libcom.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 2 >> From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]  >> Sent: May 9, 2006 12:18 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >> Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: : >> X windows vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability) > >> vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability) >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:  >>>> -----Original Message----- : >>>> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]  >>>> Sent: May 8, 2006 9:58 PM >>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB >>>> Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: ; >>>> X windows vulnerability) vulnerability) vulnerability)  >>>> >>>> "Main, Kerry" wrote: < >>>>> Bottom line is that as I stated in earlier thread, no  >>>> vendor plans their ) >>>>> platform to be secure by obscurity. / >>>> The lack of VMS exposure makes it obscure.  >>>>B >>>> The lack of HP press releases to confirm that VMS version of  >>>> a software @ >>>> does not suffer from a vulnerability just published leaves 
 >> VMS out in > >>>> the dark, with customers wondering if there is somebody   >> left to even , >>>> verify that VMS is or isn't vulnerable. >>>>H >>>> In the case of the current BIND for VMS on VAX (Bind 8) there are aC >>>> number of vulnerabilities and HP hasn't issued any statements   >>>> to confirm G >>>> or deny that they apply to VMS.  Is there anyone left at the TCPIP  >>>> Services group ?  >>>>> >>> I am not familiar with whether any of these BIND 8 issues  >> you mention! >>> are applicable or not to VAX. 5 >> I like ya Kerry, but you can't get away with such!  >> >>> Having stated that - >>> ; >>> Are there any resources left at Sun putting the latest   >> security fixes  >>> into Solaris 2/6? * >> Does Sun still sell/supply Solaris 2/6? >> > F > Don't know .. Are you saying Sun does not support its older Customer > base?  > E > If this is the case, then you would have to ask Sun why they do not E > support their older Customer base like HP does with VAX's and other " > older Alpha versions of OpenVMS. > : >>> Are there any resources left at Microsoft putting the  >> latest security? >>> fixes into NT3.51?  Even NT4 has not been updated with all   >> the security ! >>> patches for quite awhile now. 0 >> Does Microsoft still sell NT3.51?  NT4?  W2K? >> > I > W2K yes. I highly doubt the other versions, but all of them still exist E > in many Customer environments today (yes, even NT3.51). NT4 base is  > really, really huge. > E > You would have to ask Microsoft why they do not support their older I > Customer base like HP does with VAX's and other older Alpha versions of 
 > OpenVMS. > = >>> Keep in mind that Microsoft itself is focussing fixes on   >> Windows XP SP1 1 >>> and later (not even base Windows XP anymore). < >> Now, does HP still sell licenses and SUPPORT for VAX/VMS? >> > 3 > Hardware - No. Some specific versions of VAX/VMS. = > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/openvms_supportchart.html  > F > Point is that HP has imho, done a whole lot better job of supportingJ > older platforms than some of the other vendors mentioned in this thread.  F Older platforms, yes.  But you introduced older versions of operating C systems.  For VAX we would be talking about V7.3.  Talking about a  H (hypothetical) problem in VAX/VMS V7.3 not getting attention is NOT the F same as a problem in old versions of operating systems, including for ( example VMS V4.?, not getting attention.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 15:36:51 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> U Subject: RE: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re: X windows vulnerability) T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684013ACB6E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----$ > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20A > [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon  > Sent: May 9, 2006 12:59 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: This post will self-destruct in 10secs (Was Re:=20  > X windows vulnerability) >=20  
 [snip ...]  < > > Bottom line is that as I stated in earlier thread, no=20 > vendor plans theirH > > platform to be secure by obscurity. And while there are no platformsH > > that can state they are 100% secure, similar to the bigger banks andB > > casino's, there are some platforms which by nature of their=20 > basic designB > > means a much more sophisticated attack is required to break=20 > into them.=3D20  > >=201 > > OpenVMS is like the bigger banks/casino's.=20  > Windows/Linux/others are like B > > the corner store/liquor store where they get hit more often=20 > because itB > > is simply easier. Hackers thrive on successful hacks and so=20
 > they attack  > > the simpler targets. > >=20B > > Those who state OpenVMS is secure primarily because it does=20 > not have theE > > same volume as Windows/Linux/ others typically do not have a full 2 > > understanding of the basic design differences. > >=20A > > It is like stating the casino's and bigger get broken into=20 
 > less simply = > > because there are fewer of them than corner stores and=20  > liquor stores. > >=20 >=20A > Actually, I have read often over the years that a Casino (or=20  > a large bankA > for that matter) is unlikely to admit to being robbed except=20  > in the blatantH > gun totting case because of the fear of a loss of customer confidence.? > Maybe you need to try and find a better analogy.  This one=20  > could actually > work against you.  :-) >=20  E Well, actually, that is not the case. As I stated, it is not that the E big banks and casino's are not unhackable, just that they are several  magnitudes harder to crack.   C Question - would you prefer your money to be stored in a big bank / H casino or behind the counter of a liquor /corner store?  With the cornerE store, you can add protection and take extra precautions by putting a D bat or a shotgun behind the counter, but how really safe is that?=20   :-)    Regards    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.258 ************************