1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 16 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 271       Contents: CLNS ping in a VMS environment" Re: CLNS ping in a VMS environment Freeware Deadline 15-June  Re: Hobbyist on Itanium  Re: Hobbyist on Itanium . Re: MacOS-X & drive/file sharing with OpenVMS?3 problem using mail from php-script in apache server 7 Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server 7 Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server 7 Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server 7 Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server F Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server [cf: Multinet]F Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server [cf: Multinet] Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.   Re: The EDU Program (once again)  Re: The EDU Program (once again)  Re: The EDU Program (once again)1 Re: Trying to upgrade to 7.3 - Strange Disk Image 1 Re: Trying to upgrade to 7.3 - Strange Disk Image  version numbers with gzip  Re: version numbers with gzip   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 03:16:03 -0700' From: "nmsa" <Sebastian.Ivan@gmail.com> ' Subject: CLNS ping in a VMS environment C Message-ID: <1147774563.117057.307570@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    Hello,D  I would like to know if there is a way in performing a ping CLNS at! OSI level from a VMS environment. 	 Thank you    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:15:24 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: CLNS ping in a VMS environment 0 Message-ID: <08lag.545$rb1.252@news.cpqcorp.net>   nmsa wrote:   F >  I would like to know if there is a way in performing a ping CLNS at# > OSI level from a VMS environment.   I    Is there a specific requirement for an OSI ping, or is this a generic   connectivity test requirement?  I    The ncl commands echo, loop, query and test, and obviously the ncl IP  D icmp ping command and the TCP/IP icmp ping command, are the obvious I approaches for testing a connection.  (I don't know that the classic ISO  E ping itself was ever specifically available on OpenVMS; the ISO 8473  C amend. X or RFC 1139 versions, nor -- obviously -- if one of these   provides that.)   K    Most of the time, folks simply try the connection, or use the icmp ping.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:36:10 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>" Subject: Freeware Deadline 15-June0 Message-ID: <Kjmag.549$P31.361@news.cpqcorp.net>  G The submission deadline for the HP OpenVMS Freeware V8 distribution is  I 15-June-2006, and any new or updated packages can be submitted (prior to  E this date, obviously) for inclusion onto the distro via the links at  ) <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/>.   F New and updated packages and ports, and pointers to same, are welcome.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:12:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: Hobbyist on Itanium3 Message-ID: <$cpPubi$Mhmz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <4468a911$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:  >> >>    I got my EV5 for $50.  > . > And I got mine for free. What is your point?. > Nowadays, you need EV6 (and up) or ITANIC...  2    I got my EV4 for free.  And they both run fine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 08:43:09 -0500 / From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter)   Subject: Re: Hobbyist on Itanium0 Message-ID: <oe2dnUzLOKVwS_TZRVn-uw@comcast.com>  3 In article <$cpPubi$Mhmz@eisner.encompasserve.org>, : Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:I >In article <4468a911$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter  >'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:  >>>  >>>    I got my EV5 for $50. >>  / >> And I got mine for free. What is your point? / >> Nowadays, you need EV6 (and up) or ITANIC...  > 3 >   I got my EV4 for free.  And they both run fine.  >   F Lucky folks.  I paid $45 for my VaxStation 3100... and I've never been7 lucky enough to be near an Alpha that was being dumped.   H I bought my two UltraSparc's off Ebay (a 1E and a 5) and I'd love to getG an Alpha... but it's probably not to be.  Prices are still too high for H playing around with one.  I'd love to have one with a pair of drives and Digital Unix and OpenVMS...   E I've decided my best course of action is rig up a multicpu Linux/*BSD F box and just emulate a Vax since that's the best performance and I can% easily put it on a RAID filesystem...   K I still would like to see how fast a 2 cpu 11/780 cluster could be emulated  on a dual Xeon 3ghz box. 8-)  I (Then... I get my time travel stuff going and sell the rights back to DEC 
 in '86...)   Bill   --   --  H   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!#   pechter-at-ureachtechnologies.com    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:16:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 7 Subject: Re: MacOS-X & drive/file sharing with OpenVMS? 3 Message-ID: <+qV6LDl8rRaZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <e4a6um$jb4$1@news.BelWue.DE>, gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: > Hello, > I > what is a way to have some sort of "personal share" between OpenVMS and J > MacOS-X? With old AppleTalk there was Pathworks for Macintosh (MSA). NowP > is there something similar with OS-X? Any ideas (besides Pathworks for Windows+ > and using Windows networking on the Mac)?       I've used NFS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:45:16 +0200 ( From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl>< Subject: problem using mail from php-script in apache server< Message-ID: <22e17$4469c95e$82a13c9d$18345@news1.tudelft.nl>   Hi all,   I We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script similar to the  9 one attached. It sends the mail but the "FROM" is always  G apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine running  I the web-server) and not the expicit give "test@tudelft.nl". The Reply-To  + is missing completely from the RFC headers. H When using another system than OpenVMS to run the webserver this script  functions as we expected.  What configuration did we miss?     0 configuartion of the machine running the server: Machine : XP1000 (Alpha) OS      : OpenVMS 8.2  Server  : CSWS 2.1 PHP     : CSWS_PHP 1.3                                Jouk               	 mail.php:   # <?php $sendTo = "dummy@tudelft.nl"; "      $subject = "Test email form";(      $headers = "From: Test Mail User" ;)      $headers .= "<test@tudelft.nl>\r\n"; -      $headers .= "Reply-To: test@tudelft.nl"; :      $message = "This is just the body of the test mail.";3      mail($sendTo, $subject, $message, $headers);?>    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:22:14 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>@ Subject: Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server4 Message-ID: <e4cjm7$mll$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk>   JOUKJ wrote:	 > Hi all,  > K > We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script similar to the  ; > one attached. It sends the mail but the "FROM" is always  I > apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine running  K > the web-server) and not the expicit give "test@tudelft.nl". The Reply-To  - > is missing completely from the RFC headers. J > When using another system than OpenVMS to run the webserver this script  > functions as we expected. ! > What configuration did we miss?   @ I think vms requires SYSPRV or similar to fake the from address.( Other systems are presumably less picky.  F You could set up a suitably privileged image to do that, or you could E use a rewrite rule to rewrite the outgoing from address (MX provides  , such a facility, don't know what else does).E Configuring your local domain to be whatever you want to show to the  ' outside is usually just a logical name. > What you can do depends on your mail software & configuration.   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 09:50:07 -0400 ) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> @ Subject: Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache serverG Message-ID: <7dd80f60605160650u4980d25bg6199804b8d7bf72@mail.gmail.com>   ( ------=_Part_2174_30827500.1147787407300; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   ? On 5/16/06, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote (in part):  > 	 > Hi all,  > J > We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script similar to the: > one attached. It sends the mail but the "FROM" is alwaysH > apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine runningJ > the web-server) and not the expicit give "test@tudelft.nl". The Reply-To- > is missing completely from the RFC headers. I > When using another system than OpenVMS to run the webserver this script  > functions as we expected. ! > What configuration did we miss?     L I don't think you missed any configuration. Which IP stack are you using?  = I - get the same results when using Multinet 4.4.   0 configuartion of the machine running the server: > Machine : XP1000 (Alpha) > OS      : OpenVMS 8.2  > Server  : CSWS 2.1 > PHP     : CSWS_PHP 1.3    E I think the problem occurs with how  PHP interfaces with  VMS Mail. I G haven't tried using the PHPmailer package on VMS, but that  package can $ connect directly with the SMTP port.   Ken   ( ------=_Part_2174_30827500.1147787407300+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 5/16/06, <b class=3D"gmail_send=L ername">JOUKJ</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl">joukj@h=L rem.nano.tudelft.nl</a>&gt; wrote (in part):</span><blockquote class=3D"gma=L il_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0=" pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">L Hi all,<br><br>We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script si=L milar to the<br>one attached. It sends the mail but the &quot;FROM&quot; is=L  always<br>apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine r= unningL <br>the web-server) and not the expicit give &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:test@t=L udelft.nl">test@tudelft.nl</a>&quot;. The Reply-To<br>is missing completely=L  from the RFC headers.<br>When using another system than OpenVMS to run the=  webserver this scriptL <br>functions as we expected.<br>What configuration did we miss?</blockquot=L e><div><br>I don't think you missed any configuration. Which IP stack are y=L ou using?&nbsp; I get the same results when using Multinet 4.4.<br></div><b= r>L <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =L 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">configuartion of =L the machine running the server:<br>Machine : XP1000 (Alpha)<br>OS&nbsp;&nbs=& p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: OpenVMS=20L 8.2<br>Server&nbsp;&nbsp;: CSWS 2.1<br>PHP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : CSWS_P=L HP 1.3</blockquote><div><br>I think the problem occurs with how&nbsp; PHP i=L nterfaces with&nbsp; VMS Mail. I haven't tried using the PHPmailer package =G on VMS, but that&nbsp; package can connect directly with the SMTP port.   <br><br>Ken <br></div><br></div>  * ------=_Part_2174_30827500.1147787407300--   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:10:12 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk@ Subject: Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server) Message-ID: <e4cmg4$p3v$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   g In article <e4cjm7$mll$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: 
 >JOUKJ wrote: 
 >> Hi all, >>  L >> We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script similar to the < >> one attached. It sends the mail but the "FROM" is always J >> apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine running L >> the web-server) and not the expicit give "test@tudelft.nl". The Reply-To . >> is missing completely from the RFC headers.K >> When using another system than OpenVMS to run the webserver this script   >> functions as we expected." >> What configuration did we miss? > A >I think vms requires SYSPRV or similar to fake the from address. ) >Other systems are presumably less picky.  > O I'd doubt that that is the problem. I'd assume that the php-script is doing the J equivalent of telnetting to the smtp port and putting in the SMTP commandsD including the MAIL FROM: command. Doing that doesn't require SYSPRV.   Alpha2:sh proc/priv   G 16-MAY-2006 14:36:28.18   User: DUMMY1           Process ID:   204C0C8D G                           Node: ALPHA2           Process name: "DUMMY1"    Authorized privileges:  NETMBX       TMPMBX   Process privileges: /  NETMBX               may create network device 2  TMPMBX               may create temporary mailbox   Process rights:    Alpha2:telnet alpha2 smtp     ( %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 158.94.0.145 %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host alpha2, port smtp > 220 alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK -- Server ESMTP (PMDF V6.2-1x5#31311) ehlo alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  250-alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK 250-8BITMIME .  .  .    MAIL FROM:<test@tudelft.nl>  250 2.5.0 Address Ok.     K (where I've replaced the port number with smtp just in case there is anyone . reading this who doesn't know how to do this).    H Note. THE MAIL FROM: expects a return-path without a personal name part.O Hopefully the php script only tries to use the personal name on the from header = in the message headers not as the parameter to the MAIL FROM:     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University      G >You could set up a suitably privileged image to do that, or you could  F >use a rewrite rule to rewrite the outgoing from address (MX provides - >such a facility, don't know what else does). F >Configuring your local domain to be whatever you want to show to the ( >outside is usually just a logical name.? >What you can do depends on your mail software & configuration.  >  >Chris   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:19:43 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server0 Message-ID: <3clag.546$B91.165@news.cpqcorp.net>   JOUKJ wrote:  K > We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script similar to the  ; > one attached. It sends the mail but the "FROM" is always  I > apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine running  ? > the web-server) and not the expicit give "test@tudelft.nl"...   C    I tend to define the tcpip$smtp_from logical name as the return  E address for the mail.  There may well be a cleaner approach around...   G    FWIW, based on what I see in my local web server logs, the spammers  + are actively trolling for these procedures.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:01:46 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.comO Subject: Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server [cf: Multinet] Q Message-ID: <OF9B50F1C7.B89B0CC7-ON85257170.005D4373-85257170.005D8422@metso.com>   D "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> wrote on 05/16/2006 09:50:07 AM:   >   A > On 5/16/06, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote (in part): 	 > Hi all,  > J > We try to send mail from our website. We use a php-script similar to the: > one attached. It sends the mail but the "FROM" is alwaysH > apache$www@localdomain (local domain the domain of the machine runningJ > the web-server) and not the expicit give "test@tudelft.nl". The Reply-To- > is missing completely from the RFC headers. I > When using another system than OpenVMS to run the webserver this script  > functions as we expected. ! > What configuration did we miss?  > D > I don't think you missed any configuration. Which IP stack are you9 > using?  I get the same results when using Multinet 4.4.    Ken,  3 Using Multinet, I have these two logical names set:   9   "MULTINET_SMTP_ENVELOPE_FROM_HOST" = "local_domain.xxx" 5   "MULTINET_SMTP_FROM_HOST" = "mail.local_domain.xxx"    -Norm    > 2 > configuartion of the machine running the server: > Machine : XP1000 (Alpha) > OS      : OpenVMS 8.2  > Server  : CSWS 2.1 > PHP     : CSWS_PHP 1.3 > E > I think the problem occurs with how  PHP interfaces with  VMS Mail. > > I haven't tried using the PHPmailer package on VMS, but that2 > package can connect directly with the SMTP port. >  > Ken    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 10:34:15 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com O Subject: Re: problem using mail from php-script in apache server [cf: Multinet] B Message-ID: <1147800855.376632.32380@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  G The problem is part that the mail() php function does not correctly use 3 change the "FROM" field, since it's using VMS MAIL.   G There are php scripts that send mail using SMTP, which will work better D for what you want.  If you need help, let me know, and I'll send youE one that I use (modified from the phpBB2 code).  That will enable you D to use an arbitrary sender, plus all the other fun headers you might need to include.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 05:38:31 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <whFh5FUr09eQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4cs6k9F171ifkU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   B > So, who is up for writting "VMS in a Nutshell"?  And then, would) > O'Reilly even be willing to publish it?   I I see O'Reilly books as being for software whose creator ships inadequate  documentation.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 07:54:04 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <KTnUa0fJDC0i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4crhpbF16i6hlU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > M > I think the requirement that students have their own computers today pretty J > much assumes they will have Windows and the necessary applications to doL > their non-CS work.  Of course there is no VMS, but then, that is the trend! > we are talking about reversing.   G    Shortly after I decided not to go to Steven's Tech they instituted a G    requirement that all new freshman bring an IBM compatable PC.  Apple @    was working on things like the Apple II, long before the Mac.  E    I thought I might have to get my son a Windows computer for CS but B    the folks in UMD CS were specific that they didn't care and theG    compus support folks are very good with both PC and Mac.  HE in fact $    has never had a need for Windows.  &    Which makes me feel good about UMD.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 07:59:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <if8OqpZrolDt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <1sydne7U9bbbPfXZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > : > Now the question is, is there something better than VMS.  H    While I'm sure there are many people willing to start flame wars overG    X is better than Y, I've yet to see anything beter than VMS for most     of the work I do.  H    I've found UNIX and Windows "good enough" for some things but I don't:    care for the number of people it takes to support them.  G    A lot of us thought WNT (= VMS + 111) was possibly going to be a VMS D    core with a GUI that was easier to use than X11.  Oh boy, we were    disapointed.   E    OS X is to UNIX what we had hoped for relative to VMS.  Since DEC, G    Compaq, and HP don't see VMS as a desktop system we have little hope F    to see the day when our desktops have a great GUI on top of a great    OS.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:02:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <r5le5dzWLs4E@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <doydnSdbnN8cP_XZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Bob Koehler wrote: >>  + >>    TOPS-20 and Windows have redirection.  > N > Ok, I'll be the 'straight' guy.  What in windoz are you calling redirection? >   E    Because of limitations of a third part product, my Windows systems A    have a K drive defined to be a directory on the C drive.  That C    capability goes all the way back to MS-DOS days and is a similar %    concept to rooted logicals in VMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2006 13:15:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4cu1jkF16icgvU1@individual.net>  3 In article <CstcYgKZ54EF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ > In article <4468AB38.53FB9762@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>  A >> The one area where VMS retains a huge advantage is the extreme H >> flexibility given by logical names versus applications with hardcodedI >> file names on other OS. Consider group level logicals where one groups K >> accesses certain files when running application ABC and another group of D >> users accesses different files when running the same application. >>  J >    UNIX users will claim that you can do the same thing with links.  You- >    can't, but often you can do well enough.   I No, not really.  Links won't give different user different files with the I same name, although the directory you run in could probably do that.  But J it wold still be the wrong way.  It's easier done with the Unix equivalentJ of LOGICALS which would be shell variables.  The biggest problem with mostJ people who complain about Unix is the fact that they don't know how to useJ it.  Hmmmm......  Kind of like people who complain about VMS!!  Or VM/CMS. Or Primos. Or...........   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:03:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <XdjNe5S7Gpi6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4468A63B.8C9587A3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:E >> > Face it, 99.999999% of VMS shops have defined "CD" to means "SET  > F >>    Perhaps in shops where you work.  None of the shops where I work >>    have done that.  > G > OK, that is two or three people who said they don't have "CD". So the $ > percentage drops to 96.8736 %? :-)  4    People != shops.  I work with multiple VMS shops.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:09:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <IAH31tPbEf3o@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4cs6k9F171ifkU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > B > So, who is up for writting "VMS in a Nutshell"?  And then, would) > O'Reilly even be willing to publish it?  >   H    I hope not.  I've not yet had a book from O'Reilly that was accurate.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2006 13:24:08 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4cu23oF16icgvU2@individual.net>  3 In article <if8OqpZrolDt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > In article <1sydne7U9bbbPfXZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>  ; >> Now the question is, is there something better than VMS.  > J >    While I'm sure there are many people willing to start flame wars overI >    X is better than Y, I've yet to see anything beter than VMS for most  >    of the work I do. > J >    I've found UNIX and Windows "good enough" for some things but I don't< >    care for the number of people it takes to support them.  I How many people does it take to support Unix?  (Is this another lightbulb G joke?)  I currently have 12 Unix server.  On top of that I have a Win2k I server, 2 Win2k3, 2 labs of XP boxes, a constantly changing research lab, H all the networking from wiring in the walls up to Cisco boxes and over aG 1000 users.  I'm a one man shop.  By the way, the VMS side of the local E datacenter has 3 or 4 VMS boxes and a 3 admin people (and a full-time 4 operator to handle things like backups).  Go figure.  H Oh yeah, between Windows and Unix, I'll give you three guesses which oneK takes up most of my time.  I have Unix servers that I only touch at upgrade ? time. The rest of the time they just sit there doing their job.   3 Can we put this myth to sleep once and for all now?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:04:35 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <NOno0ncY2Edn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <OL1ag.148424$tc.139548@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  > F > TOPS-20 also had logicals (DEFINE command strangely enough). So did 2 > TOPS-10 but not as complete (the ASSIGN command)  H    Thanks.  I thought so, but I wasn't sure.  I was fairly sure I'd usedE    something to do redirection, probably something I did with DEFINE.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 08:07:49 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <CstcYgKZ54EF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4468AB38.53FB9762@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I > In terms of user interface, consider that VMS hasn't any real work done  > since the late 1980s.   G    I disagree.  I think recent improvements to DCL that we've discussed '    here in c.o.v are real improvements.   @ > The one area where VMS retains a huge advantage is the extremeG > flexibility given by logical names versus applications with hardcoded H > file names on other OS. Consider group level logicals where one groupsJ > accesses certain files when running application ABC and another group ofC > users accesses different files when running the same application.  > H    UNIX users will claim that you can do the same thing with links.  You+    can't, but often you can do well enough.   J > But for file management at the user level, nothing beats the MAC and VMS > is way far behind.  F    As a serious Mac and VMS user I'm wondering just what makes you sayG    that.  The only thing I don't have on my VMS system is drag and drop D    in the GUI, and IIRC that's because I refuse to dumb down to CDE.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 09:44:39 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll./ Message-ID: <1147787105.16424@nntp.acecape.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:Y > In article <4cs6k9F171ifkU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: C >> So, who is up for writting "VMS in a Nutshell"?  And then, would * >> O'Reilly even be willing to publish it? >> > J >    I hope not.  I've not yet had a book from O'Reilly that was accurate. > I I still refer to Introduction to VAX/VMS by David Bynon and Terry Shannon = My 2nd edition is still handy for things i don't do too often 2 even though it is old and a "few" releases behind.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:35:18 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll./ Message-ID: <qcOdnXv7odOkf_TZRVn-rA@libcom.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:e > In article <doydnSdbnN8cP_XZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >> Bob Koehler wrote: , >>>    TOPS-20 and Windows have redirection.O >> Ok, I'll be the 'straight' guy.  What in windoz are you calling redirection?  >> > G >    Because of limitations of a third part product, my Windows systems C >    have a K drive defined to be a directory on the C drive.  That E >    capability goes all the way back to MS-DOS days and is a similar ' >    concept to rooted logicals in VMS.  >   D I thought that might be what you were referring to.  Used it in the E past.  I sure wouldn't mention it when discussing VMS logical names,  5 which are much more than just naming files/locations.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2006 16:50:11 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4cue63F17mleiU1@individual.net>  3 In article <whFh5FUr09eQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y > In article <4cs6k9F171ifkU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > C >> So, who is up for writting "VMS in a Nutshell"?  And then, would * >> O'Reilly even be willing to publish it? > K > I see O'Reilly books as being for software whose creator ships inadequate  > documentation.   And your point is? :-)  D What documentation ships with VMS?  A couple of CD's that no one canD access (I'm working on that,too!!)  And regardless of what many hereF think, VMS documentation is sadly inadequate for inexperienced users. D I have been doing computers for more than 30 years and still end outG coming here frequently because I can't find the answer to some question  in the documentation.   C For every subject we teach there are dozens of different textbooks. A Why do you think that is?  Could it be because everyone's methods D of comprehension are different and a book that is good for one mightA not be good enough for another?  There are (and have been) dozens E (if not hundreds) of books on Unix.  Do you not think this might this : might contribute to the idea that Unix is easier to learn?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2006 16:52:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4cuea9F17mleiU2@individual.net>  3 In article <IAH31tPbEf3o@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <4cs6k9F171ifkU3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  C >> So, who is up for writting "VMS in a Nutshell"?  And then, would * >> O'Reilly even be willing to publish it? >>   > J >    I hope not.  I've not yet had a book from O'Reilly that was accurate.  B Well, that's funny.  I have found the exact opposite.  As a matterA of fact, without O'reilly books I would never be able to keep all F this MS crap running cause you sure don't get any usable documentation
 from Redmond.   I The only real problem I ever find is common to all texts in our business. F The technology changes at a pace much faster than the time it takes toE get a book written and out onto the street.  This was the main reason G given by Tannenbaum for why he didn't right an updated networking book.      bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2006 17:08:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4cuf8sF17mleiU3@individual.net>  3 In article <tGOj4h7DTUgP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <4cu1jkF16icgvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  L >> No, not really.  Links won't give different user different files with theL >> same name, although the directory you run in could probably do that.  ButM >> it wold still be the wrong way.  It's easier done with the Unix equivalent . >> of LOGICALS which would be shell variables. > J >    Nope.  Shell variables are equivalent to DCL symbols.  Very different >    from logicals.   F I won't argue this with you as I have no idea how logicals are done in the meaty part of the OS.    > 7 >    But like links, they can sometimes be good enough.   K There is no way that links are going to let multiple users access different L files using the same name, that's pretty much the reciprical of the way theyH work.  Links can give one file multiple names, but not one name multiple files.   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 11:43:56 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <tGOj4h7DTUgP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4cu1jkF16icgvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > K > No, not really.  Links won't give different user different files with the K > same name, although the directory you run in could probably do that.  But L > it wold still be the wrong way.  It's easier done with the Unix equivalent- > of LOGICALS which would be shell variables.   H    Nope.  Shell variables are equivalent to DCL symbols.  Very different    from logicals.   5    But like links, they can sometimes be good enough.    ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2006 17:17:42 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4cufpmF17mleiU4@individual.net>  3 In article <arF9LojajUpl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:b > In article <4cu23oF16icgvU2@individual.net>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  L >> How many people does it take to support Unix?  (Is this another lightbulbJ >> joke?)  I currently have 12 Unix server.  On top of that I have a Win2kL >> server, 2 Win2k3, 2 labs of XP boxes, a constantly changing research lab,K >> all the networking from wiring in the walls up to Cisco boxes and over a J >> 1000 users.  I'm a one man shop.  By the way, the VMS side of the localH >> datacenter has 3 or 4 VMS boxes and a 3 admin people (and a full-time7 >> operator to handle things like backups).  Go figure.   I Oh damn.  I forgot to mention my VMS system entirely.  :-) And then there K are the PDP-11's too! (Currently one OS, but hopefully three different OSes  in the near future.)   >>  K >> Oh yeah, between Windows and Unix, I'll give you three guesses which one N >> takes up most of my time.  I have Unix servers that I only touch at upgradeB >> time. The rest of the time they just sit there doing their job. > E >    I've got one person part time to take care of a VMScluster of 22 % >    systems (backups are automated).  > J >    I've got one person for every three UNIX systems, but only if they're >    from the same vendor.  ? Why?  You sure they don't spend all their time playing NetHack? E Tell you what, hire me.  I'll take on 12 Unix system as the Admin and K you can pay me three people's salary.  You'll save one persons salary and 3 J people's healthcare.  That should be a substantial savings.  :-)  Oh yeah,) and I get two people's vacation time. :-)     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 10:20:41 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.C Message-ID: <1147800041.193971.172200@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > In article <1147726109.535740.324470@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, 2 > 	"Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > >> In article <1147719225.311078.213760@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,! > >> 	bob@instantwhip.com writes:  > >> >) > >> > didn't you help this guy out Bill?  > >>? > >> Not being a mind reader, I couldn't help him til he asked. C > >> No one has ever asked me anything about VMS.  But then, that's @ > >> part of the problem.  Why would anyone ask about an OS they > >> think is dead.  > > I > > Sounds like the VMS marketing (oxymoron alert!) mantra: Why should we A > > spend money marketing something that everyone thinks is dead?  > >  >   > OK, let's shoot the messenger.  3 If you think that'll accomplish anything, go ahead.    > @ > > How have *you* advertised/marketed VMS to your organization? >  > Not my job, man. >    Okay. Maybe an avocation?   H > >                                                               You'reI > > running old VAX and people who *do* look at your VMS are comparing it G > > to (I suspect) newer systems & OS releases --- and ain't it amazing % > > that they don't prefer using VMS!  > J > Hey, anytime you want to have a couple of Itaniums with licenses for theI > OS and all the layered products sent to me, I'll be glad to put them up G > and make them available.  I run what I can get, you should be able to & > figure out the alternative yourself. >   D If I had the extra money or needed the write-off, I'd certainly send you equipment.  D You're plan to get a couple of little Alphas is good. Alpha is newerC than VAX but if you actually did a cost analysis you could probably ? justify an Itanium --- except that based on my experiences with E academia, cost studies are things to be taught but have nothing to do  with departmental bugets.    > > G > > You've said how difficult and unintuitive DCL is, so I must presume I > > that you (and your users) needed no instruction before using pwd, ls- F > > l, cat, man, and such? I guess I'm just stupid because I needed toJ > > spend quite a bit of time learning that shell crap (korn? borne? porn?J > > dang, I never can remember which is which!) and since I don't use *nixF > > that often, I need to use a "cheat sheet" or waste my life in man. >  > So, what's your point?  G Obvious, I thought. You seem to indicate people learn *nix intuitively, C but somehow DCL is so cryptic that noone can figure it out on their G own. My point is: Bullsh*t!  You didn't just "know" that entering ls -l E would show you the contents of a directory --- you didn't know what a G directory even was --- you had to learn those things. If the person who D didn't know "show default" was never told, and obviously wasn't evenG told about "help", but now that person *has* been told and understands,  what is *your* point?   F Here's an experiment: Choose a group of people who have no interest inF computers or prior knowledge of command line interface and sit half ofE them in front of a *nix screen (start with the shell of your choice), A and half in front of DCL. Stand back and watch but offer no help. D Observe and record which group produce the first purposeful results?F Switch stations and watch them again. Repeat this with different goupsB until you are satisfied that your sample population is meaningful.  . Speculate as to the result of this experiment.  4 > How hard or easy Unix is to learn isn't the issue.   It was an issue you brought up.   G > Unix vendors aren't having a hard time selling it.  Unix share of the M > market is still going up.  Perception is reality.  And people's (even those I > with extensive previous VMS experience) is that it is dead.  Some of us M > are trying to do something about that. If one of the problems is that users K > find VMS to be more esoteric than Unix, then so be it.  Telling them they 6 > are wrong or idiots isn't going to help VMS one bit. >   A You've totally missed this. The esoteric nature of UNIX's command E language(s) is the great appeal to young people who are interested in F tech things. VMS's "boring" nature is less appealing to that crowd.  IE mean, any idiot can type HELP (but I don't advocate calling anyone an D idiot.) It is when a CS course starts getting under the surface that VMS becomes very interesting.    > > C > > Now, in the world of computers, obscure and cryptic things have H > > *always* been most attractive to students of geek. Face it; commandsK > > like directory, help and show default are pretty boring compared to ls, H > > man and pwd. The more cryptic the better. If you doubt that, look at > > kids' text messaging & IM. > & > Yeah, and most of them aren't geeks.  ? And where did I say they were?  Again, you've either misread my ' statement or you just missed the point.   $ >  So where does that put your idea?L > You know, insulting your potential audience is not going to win them over.J > If I handed out insults like this everytime someone complained about notJ > understanding something in VMS they would find a very simple solution toI > the problem.  They would just stay on Unix.  Oh wait, looks like that's = > pretty much what has been happening for the past 2 decades.  >   D What insult? If you think anything I've written was insulting or hasC advocated rudeness, please understand it was not intended to be so.    > >  > > But life goes on.  > 3 > Not for VMS if something isn't done to change it.  >   G Well, VMS isn't really a living thing. The people who own, develop, buy A and use VMS are living things. As are people who do none of those ) things. Life goes on with or without VMS.    > > ---  > > I > > In another post you asked about "VMS in a Nutshell"; if you spend any I > > time at all looking on-line you'll find a ton of resource. check out:  > > 2 > > <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wbt/pc/welcome.htm> > >  > > for starters.  > G > I will have to assume that you know nothing about the "in a NUtshell" D > series of books.  Just having a book in the series can be a pretty > powerfull marketing tool.   ; That may be the view from your perspective. It is not mine.   . >  I have looked on-line.  There are little ifH > any resources to compare to things like an O'Reilly book.  The on-lineJ > documentation is interesting, but not targeted at the beginner.  I think  G It is all out there for free at any level you want. O'Reilly books cost C money. O'Reilly books do not create interest in something. It's the  other way around.   K > the whole purpose of putting it all on-line was not to make it easier for G > the user, but to get out of the publishing business.  Of course, AT&T E > accomplished that by turning all their printed documentation (which ; > mimics the online documentation) to a publishing company.  > 6 > Let me know if you ever have any constructive ideas. >    Not my job, man.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:46:04 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ) Subject: Re: The EDU Program (once again) ; Message-ID: <aebec$44699f5c$50db5015$23430@news.hispeed.ch>    John E. Malmberg wrote:  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  >> >> I usually just: >>? >> $ rename lmf$license .'f$cvtime("''f$time()'-367-",,"year")'  >> $ license create  >> $ @paks.com >>I >> Seems to work just fine except for the first week or so of January. My J >> PAKs generally renew in late Winter or early Spring; so, that works for >> me. >  > < > I have several PAKs like TSM and BLISS that do not expire. >   H Also anyone who has a system with just a VMS Base License (e.g. the PWS F 600au as shown at http://www.islandco.com/pws.html ) will not wish to " zap the complete license database.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 12:31:36 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)) Subject: Re: The EDU Program (once again) , Message-ID: <4469c628$1@news.langstoeger.at>  m In article <aebec$44699f5c$50db5015$23430@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:  >>  = >> I have several PAKs like TSM and BLISS that do not expire.  > I >Also anyone who has a system with just a VMS Base License (e.g. the PWS  G >600au as shown at http://www.islandco.com/pws.html ) will not wish to  # >zap the complete license database.   B I don't understand why some people seem to have such big problems.K I only do a $ LIC DEL */AUT=DECUS* (and also $ LIC DEL */AUT=TCPWARE-HOBBY) D and then run the new license mails (and a LICENSE LOAD afterwards).   F But then again all my hobbyist licenses expire on the same day now ;-)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:17:22 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: The EDU Program (once again) ) Message-ID: <e4c8rh$kcp$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   m In article <aebec$44699f5c$50db5015$23430@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:  >John E. Malmberg wrote: >> David J. Dachtera wrote:  >>   >>>  >>> I usually just:  >>> @ >>> $ rename lmf$license .'f$cvtime("''f$time()'-367-",,"year")' >>> $ license create >>> $ @paks.com  >>> J >>> Seems to work just fine except for the first week or so of January. MyK >>> PAKs generally renew in late Winter or early Spring; so, that works for  >>> me.  >>   >>  = >> I have several PAKs like TSM and BLISS that do not expire.  >>   > I >Also anyone who has a system with just a VMS Base License (e.g. the PWS  G >600au as shown at http://www.islandco.com/pws.html ) will not wish to  # >zap the complete license database.   K Anyone with such a license should have a copy somewhere (preferably a paper ! copy) which can be re-registered.   0 If you haven't got a copy you can always use the  : LICENSE ISSUE command to export the license to a text file  L (remembering to then use the LICENSE ENABLE command to re-enable the licenseM after issueing it - the issue command automatically disables any license that * is exported by the LICENSE ISSUE command).   help license issue   LICENSE      ISSUE   C        Produces a replica of a Product Authorization Key (PAK) that E        is sent to a file or displayed on your terminal (the default). E        If the terms and conditions of your license contract allow it, E        you can then enter this PAK replica in the License Database of D        another processor. When you enter LICENSE ISSUE, LMF disablesH        the license in the current License Database and marks the licenseG        DISABLED. To enable a license that has been marked ISSUED, enter         LICENSE ENABLE.      
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2006 05:00:45 -07001 From: "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com> : Subject: Re: Trying to upgrade to 7.3 - Strange Disk ImageC Message-ID: <1147780845.047651.238470@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote  G    "Eh?  I burn raw disk images all the time.  So long as you perform a @ block, binary, raw or the ISO (no relation to ISO-9660) burn (orG whatever your particular chosen recording tool calls it), you should be E OK with most any Windows or Unix or Linux CD recording tool.  (If the F recording tool is allowed to try to interpret or to re-format the diskD image, however, you may well encounter the problems you appear to be reporting.)"  C Until today I have been unable to convince Roxio Easy CD Creator to G burn an OpenVMS image file to CD. Roxio insists that it must be a valid  Weendooze file system." Nero, OTH, has no problem with it.   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:39:09 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>: Subject: Re: Trying to upgrade to 7.3 - Strange Disk Image0 Message-ID: <1Ckag.542$H81.187@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bart.Zorn@gmail.com wrote:  E > Until today I have been unable to convince Roxio Easy CD Creator to I > burn an OpenVMS image file to CD. Roxio insists that it must be a valid  > Weendooze file system.$ > Nero, OTH, has no problem with it.  F    When presented with Windows CD or DVD creation requirements for my B own Microsoft Windows systems, I have been successfully using the C CDBurnerXP Pro recording tool.  This Windows tool is available for  0 download at the URL: <http://www.cdburnerxp.se>.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 08:47:02 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: version numbers with gzip) Message-ID: <op.s9nh4ouozgicya@hyrrokkin>   I I tried to use gzip on a new saveset of which an old one already existed. ? I expected that it would bump the version number.  but did not.   G gzip: $1$DGA2:[000000]COMMON.SAV-gz already exists;     not overwritten ( %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002    J now my version of gzip 1.2.4 is very old. I tried 1.2.4b which is on the   6.0 freeware and it gives  D gzip: $1$DGA2:[000000]COMMON.SAV-gz already exists; do you wish to   overwrite (y or n)?   = Has anyone built a version which advances the version number?  Tom    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:01:39 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)& Subject: Re: version numbers with gzip2 Message-ID: <06051611013856_2020743C@antinode.org>  # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   F > gzip: $1$DGA2:[000000]COMMON.SAV-gz already exists; do you wish to   > overwrite (y or n)?   ? > Has anyone built a version which advances the version number?   >    What does that one do if you say "y"?  Have you tried "-f"?      From GZIP.C:   G  " -f --force       force overwrite of output file and compress links",   0 Or does that actually remove the old file first?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.271 ************************