1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 19 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 276       Contents:# Re: Digital PWS 500au Firmware V6.9 ( Re: Flight performance hiccup (decnet ?)( Re: Flight performance hiccup (decnet ?) Re: LP ECO's Re: LP ECO's. Re: MacOS-X & drive/file sharing with OpenVMS?1 Re: OT: race for 8086s continues: 4 cores for AMD # Re: Ping in web server command file # Re: Ping in web server command file # Re: Ping in web server command file  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  RE: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  RE: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Re: Results of my straw poll.  Ruby on OpenVMS   Re: SORT, LEF, SYS$PUT and COBOL0 Re: speeding up LAVC with switch instead of hub? Re: SWS-2.1 (Apache) question? Re: SWS-2.1 (Apache) question?P Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer  wasunsuccessfulP Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was  unsuccessfuP Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was  unsuccessfuP Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was  unsuccessfuP Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was unsuccessful# Re: Thundering Hurd pacing HP gains B Re: XP1000 SRM Firmware (was: Re: Digital PWS 500au Firmware V6.9)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:14:12 -0400 4 From: Brian MacNamara <macnamara@hedgehoghollow.com>, Subject: Re: Digital PWS 500au Firmware V6.9; Message-ID: <446cf1b5$0$2706$af4e6cc9@news.usenetguide.com>    Followup - problem solved.  D It turns out that (as many of you suggested) the firmware was not a 4 problem.  We had hardware problems, instead - x3!!!!  B The system will no boot happily without seeing a live line on the E Ethernet.  It doesn't need to go anywhere, but just a cable to a hub  D will make it happy.  In addition we had a disk controller that was, I shall we say, not quite right.  It worked through most things but during  G   some phases of the startup, it caused some unhandled SCSI bus resets.   ! Fixing these two items solved it.   F Thanks VERY much to all who offered very useful clues out there -- it F was suggestions from the newsgroup that lead us through a lot of what  found the problems.    /Brian       Brian MacNamara wrote: > Hi Folks,  > K > I have a Digital Personal Workstation 500AU, which is running great, and  E > we're trying to set up an alternate system.  Unfortunately all the  D > altenates (we've tried 3) have new firmware (V7.2-1), and our VMS J > (7.3-2) disk fails to boot past the point of DECnet starting.  It does, G > of course, work flawlessly on the one machine with V6.9 SRM firmware.  > G > We are pretty much up to date on patches on VMS (caveat any that may  K > have come out in the past couple of days), but there's always the chance  2 > that there's something that's been missed there. > K > I've searched what I can and only come up with the current firmware. Can  H > anyone point me to an older set we can load, or to a patch I may have J > missed (yes, you are welcome to beat me around the head with a nerf bat  > if I've missed the obvious!).  >  > Thanks.../Brian  > --  0 > Brian MacNamara - macnamara@HedgehogHollow.COM. > Hedgehog Hollow:  http://HedgehogHollow.COM/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:29:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: Re: Flight performance hiccup (decnet ?) , Message-ID: <446CBD25.A01759CD@teksavvy.com>   John Santos wrote:J > Are you putting the nose up?  (I haven't played with flight simulator inJ > about 20 years, and that was a Piper or Cessna, but doesn't the ConcordeG > have a nose that drops down for better visibility during landings and  > takeoffs?)    G This isn't a "simulator" issue. The display also freezes momentarily if F flying a 737. And if it were a simulator issue, then the display wouldH continue to update (speed, altitude, attitude etc), and the circle would$ continue to follow the mouse cursor.  / > Or maybe you just need a faster simulator :-)   D Well running the simulator on the 3100 and displaying it on the 3100D works fine. It is running the simulator on a much faster machine andH displaying it on the 3100 that causes problems.  Likely the 4000 sendingH too many frames per second for the 3100 to keep up. (the 3100's CPU goesF to nearly 100% while it works, and drops nearly 0% when it is frozen).C The 4000's CPU varies from nearl 100% to 0% (also drops to nil when  display is frozen).    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>1 Subject: Re: Flight performance hiccup (decnet ?) * Message-ID: <Ey7bg.5672$RY2.2227@trnddc02>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Santos wrote: > J >>Are you putting the nose up?  (I haven't played with flight simulator inJ >>about 20 years, and that was a Piper or Cessna, but doesn't the ConcordeG >>have a nose that drops down for better visibility during landings and  >>takeoffs?) >  >  > I > This isn't a "simulator" issue. The display also freezes momentarily if H > flying a 737. And if it were a simulator issue, then the display wouldJ > continue to update (speed, altitude, attitude etc), and the circle would& > continue to follow the mouse cursor.  C I wasn't commenting on the simulator performance.  I was commenting B on the fact that you could get the Concorde to achieve altitude or speed.  ? If you can get a 737 to Mach 1.0 and 60,000 ft, ... :-) :-) :-)      >  > / >>Or maybe you just need a faster simulator :-)  >  > F > Well running the simulator on the 3100 and displaying it on the 3100F > works fine. It is running the simulator on a much faster machine andJ > displaying it on the 3100 that causes problems.  Likely the 4000 sendingJ > too many frames per second for the 3100 to keep up. (the 3100's CPU goesH > to nearly 100% while it works, and drops nearly 0% when it is frozen).E > The 4000's CPU varies from nearl 100% to 0% (also drops to nil when  > display is frozen).   @ Does the Concorde go faster when the 3100 is both the client and7 server, or does this just solve the hiccups and stalls?      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 13:15:23 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: LP ECO's C Message-ID: <1147983323.643123.195180@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote: > > Hoff Hoffman wrote: * > >>  You mention you have the current ECOJ > >> kits installed, but sometimes things like the TCP/IP ECO kits can get > >> overlooked. > >> > > K > > Now that you've mentioned it, does anyone else find the list of layered  > > products patches at: > > ? > >   <ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/>  > >  > > a bit confusing? ....  > F >    Having to know about and manage individual ECO kits is a somewhat@ > quaint concept, and one that I'd personally prefer to replace. > H >    http://h20325.www2.hp.com/blogs/hoffman/archive/2006/04/17/906.html   I completely agree.   D Having lived through the days when applying a patch involved editingC the source and recompiling and linking the operating system, versus F today where certain other os's patch sights do function much like whatG you suggest (choose manual selection and download, or download a module G to actually examine your system, list appropriate new patches and allow C you to select and apply those you want) my view is that the current 4 VMS-way seems to fall closer to old-school than new.  C Since that change probably won't happen within the immediate future F (unless there's something you can share with us:-), some simple thingsG could be done now to make it easier to find the appropriate patches and ! to determine which ones to apply.   E A logically organized layered product master list would be one simple D step in the right direction. Consistent names would be another. LoseD the HP vanity prefix or make sure *everything* has the prefix (thirdE party products should have different, non-conflicting product names). E As I opined before, having a sorted list where most things fall under 7 one letter ("H" now) and other similar things don't, is 3 overcomplicating something that needs to be simple.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 13:16:39 -0700 From: n.rieck@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: LP ECO's C Message-ID: <1147983399.412872.141710@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote: > > Hoff Hoffman wrote: * > >>  You mention you have the current ECOJ > >> kits installed, but sometimes things like the TCP/IP ECO kits can get > >> overlooked. > >> > > K > > Now that you've mentioned it, does anyone else find the list of layered  > > products patches at: > > ? > >   <ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/>  > >  > > a bit confusing? ....  > F >    Having to know about and manage individual ECO kits is a somewhat@ > quaint concept, and one that I'd personally prefer to replace. > H >    http://h20325.www2.hp.com/blogs/hoffman/archive/2006/04/17/906.htmlG Since you want to see compatability warnings etc., the only safe way to # search for patches is through here:  http://www.itrc.hp.com  
 Neil Rieck   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 17:59:46 -05004 From: kuhrt.nospammy@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)7 Subject: Re: MacOS-X & drive/file sharing with OpenVMS? 3 Message-ID: <074$pVTmpYAy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G In article <e4dkel0k5t@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: . > Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> wrote:2 >> I do this as well and it takes nothing special. > N >> I am running the latest ECO of Advanced Server V7.3A and MAC OS X V10.3.9. M >> To access any share I have defined in AS from the MAC, I simply do what is H >> shown above (well, almost).  It is: Finder -> Go -> Connect to Server$ >> Enter: smb://servername/sharename > M >> At password popup, enter your username and password as defined in Advanced L >> Server.  File access works just fine from here.  I did nothing special to >> make this work. > I > Does everything work as expected from the Finder?  Are you able to copy K > files to the share, and can you edit & save a file that is located on the  > share? > K > For those using NFS, I'd be interested in knowing if you can do this, and  > what TCP stack you're using. > K > I'm still using Appletalk, and that is keeping me from upgrading both VMS G > and Mac OS X.  I have yet to find a solution that will allow me to do I > everything I'm asking about :^(  Interestingly, using TCPIP V5.4, I can N > mount an NFS share on the Mac, but it won't work right from Finder (it's OK,: > or at least mostly OK from the command line on the Mac). >  > 	Zane  >   > I tried to get NFS shares to work consistently from the Mac to> VMS using Alpha VMS 7.3-2, Multinet 5.0 Rev A-X, chock full o'? patches. I can mount the NFS shares from the Mac and small file > xfers work fine.  When I try to copy a larger file, say 10M or> larger, it will fail with error 36 (IIRC) on the Mac side (how: about that for descriptive error messages).  I worked withA Process for a while and at least got it to not lock up my system, ? but that's about it.  I moved on to another project and haven't > addressed it for months.  I'm sure the Process guys would have4 figured out the problem eventually had I kept on it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 21:25:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: OT: race for 8086s continues: 4 cores for AMD+ Message-ID: <446D1E87.FA2A5BB@teksavvy.com>   E BTW, today Dell finally confirmed it would start selling servers with E AMD chips in them, ending the "official" "intel only" policies of the  past.   F It is limited to servers though. But it sets a precedent and gives AMD? quite a foothold.  Artte there any major Wintel makers that are  exclusive to Intel anymore ?  E The competition in the 8086 space will only increase because of this. H And this means that this where resources will be allocated and this will0 result in the 8086 progressing at a faster pace.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:56:30 -0400 ) From: "Mike Robinson" <onthost@gmail.com> , Subject: Re: Ping in web server command file6 Message-ID: <Fk4bg.39092$Hk1.27385@read1.cgocable.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:446B94B8.552351F8@teksavvy.com... > > Chuck Aaron wrote:G > > Does anyone have the dcl tcpip command "ping" set up in a webserver  > > command fileJ > > that returns the results and tests the results for validity...anything > > like that at all? ; > > If so, please email me the dcl setup to take a look at.  >  > 7 > PLEASE DO NOT POST IN HTML. THIS IS A TEXT NEWSGROUP.  Technically HTML is TEXT.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 22:57:07 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: Ping in web server command file* Message-ID: <446cfbc3@news.langstoeger.at>  l In article <446cda69$0$20753$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w4OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl> writes:* >Mike Robinson wrote on 18-5-2006 21:56...= >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ) >> news:446B94B8.552351F8@teksavvy.com...  >>>> Chuck Aaron wrote:  >[snip]  > 9 >>> PLEASE DO NOT POST IN HTML. THIS IS A TEXT NEWSGROUP.  >> Technically HTML is TEXT. > E >PLEASE DO NOT PROPAGATE MODERN IDEAS HERE, NOR USE MODERN EQUIPMENT.  >THIS IS AN ANCIENT NEWSGROUP.  , You mean so modern like virii and worms are?  # You know the story of the 2 idiots? 2 The first one says "This is old and therefor good"5 and the second says "This is new and therefor better"    >(sorry, couldn't resist :-)   2   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 14:17:44 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> , Subject: Re: Ping in web server command fileB Message-ID: <1147987064.530862.132810@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Wilm Boerhout wrote:+ > Mike Robinson wrote on 18-5-2006 21:56... > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message* > > news:446B94B8.552351F8@teksavvy.com... > >>> Chuck Aaron wrote: > [snip] >  > >>: > >> PLEASE DO NOT POST IN HTML. THIS IS A TEXT NEWSGROUP. > > Technically HTML is TEXT.  > >  > F > PLEASE DO NOT PROPAGATE MODERN IDEAS HERE, NOR USE MODERN EQUIPMENT. > THIS IS AN ANCIENT NEWSGROUP.  >  > (sorry, couldn't resist :-)  >  > /Wilm   F Lyrics by The KLF,  "Justified & Ancient" from "The White Room" album:   ***** % They're justified and they're ancient  And they like to roam the land% They're justified and they're ancient  I hope you understand ' They don't want to upset the apple cart % And they don't want to cause any harm . But if you don't like what they're going to do5 You better not stop them cause they're coming through  *****   - (sorry, I could've resisted, but I didn't ;-)    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 12:57:18 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <DUR6+VMpqYT1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4d3njcF18pf4tU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > E > Not necessarily hide, but make the more commonly needed information H > more available in a friendlier form and leave the obscure and esoteric3 > for those who can actually understand and use it.  >   F    I've never found anyone better at doing that than DEC was.  ManualsF    that assumed you had absolutely no idea what you were doing and hadE    to be gently led by the hand, and manuals that you used next which B    had all the gory details you could ever want once you knew what    you were doing.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 12:54:14 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.3 Message-ID: <Kmql0066k+sj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <PGL3vN$296ja@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: Y > In article <4d35qsF18h298U2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > 8 > Don't they know how to say CTRL/Y or STOP/ID in Unix ? >  > Not that I do...  0   The usual incantations are CTRL/C or kill -9 .   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:24:10 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.0 Message-ID: <eZ2bg.772$Gs2.335@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:D tually, I am hoping to set up a machine with a webserver and a bunchG > of CD drives on it for the sole purpose of getting more documentation F > (and the VMS Docs are at the top of the list) out where the students > and faculty can get at it.    I    I'd get some bigger SCSI disks, and set up a series of 600 MB logical  F disk LD disk device partitions, and load these with the contents, and  serve those.  H    Scrounging up and configuring piles of CD drives is rather more work C than scrounging up and configuring a few bigger disks, and more CD  F drives also requires more management effort and more physical storage.  E    A number of the disks around are structured such that you can use  I subdirectories under your web server directory, which means that you can  D entirely avoid the LD, um, subterfuge -- the HTML on these disks is G structured relative to the root, rather than using absolute references.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:34:24 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> & Subject: RE: Results of my straw poll.: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDOEJEHIAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]& > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:57 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll. >  > E > In article <4d3njcF18pf4tU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  > Gunshannon) writes:  > > G > > Not necessarily hide, but make the more commonly needed information J > > more available in a friendlier form and leave the obscure and esoteric5 > > for those who can actually understand and use it.  > >  > H >    I've never found anyone better at doing that than DEC was.  ManualsH >    that assumed you had absolutely no idea what you were doing and hadG >    to be gently led by the hand, and manuals that you used next which D >    had all the gory details you could ever want once you knew what >    you were doing. >   P Amen brother! Sections M, U, and P of the docset. I've been around both Unix andO VMS pretty much from the git-go and I've always listed the VMS documentation as M one of VMS's bigger advantages over Unix. The availability of all those third M party Unix books is directly related to the lack of formal documentation from M the vendor. I don't know how many times over the last 3 decades I've had Unix O advocates respond to that with the comment that "everything is fully documented N in the source code". My last Solaris docset was beginning to get there but theM organization was still lacking and the technical writing was very much in the  cryptic MAN page style.    Dan  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 12:00:29 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.) Message-ID: <op.s9rge30bzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Thu, 18 May 2006 10:41:48 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  K > Sorry, but this is not a task for VMS.  The OS will likely be FreeBSD and H > the webserver apache2.  As for CD drives, every lab PC came with a 52XH > which was promptly replaced with writers so I have a shelf load of IDEJ > 52X CDROM Drives just gathering dust.  I realize that VMS can do it, butG > like most everything, no budget, so I use existing hardware.  Any old B > PC can handle this job as it is very low demand with mostly I/O.  H You might surprise yourself.  I ran Apache under OSF-1 for several yearsD and it doesn't compare.  Moreover, with Loadbroker you can deliver aH rather powerful environment to your students, with inexpensive hardware.H Keep those CD drives, cause if you get XP1000's the first thing you will& want to do is to replace those drives.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:10:39 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.0 Message-ID: <G5ydnY6eFowtW_HZ4p2dnA@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  ? > In article <446c25cb$0$60780$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, 0 > 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>Z >>>In article <4d11c5F183pjvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>  >>> K >>>>Probably because I have never run into a task I had to accomplish where I >>>>I needed the functionality that is unique to them.  That and the fact F >>>>that I haven't a clue where to look for the answer and I have moreJ >>>>important thigs to do than read obscure documentation for the it's own	 >>>>sake.  > K > How many people read anything before using Windows?  How many people read H > anything before using MS Office?  Most of that stuff doesn't even come > with instructions.   >   I That's true enough.  You don't need instructions. . . . Until you have a   problem - and sooner or later, you will have a problem.   0 But how else could MS sell the stuff to dummies.  H It also creates jobs for support people.  How many PC support people do B you suppose there are for every VMS person?  Is there any company I employing ten or more persons without a help desk or a PC support person?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:27:05 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.: Message-ID: <pOCdnTrwG7oUV_HZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  5 > In article <Yusdns6KyDFu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > Y >>In article <4d14mpF16mbtjU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>6 >>>In article <JxVLRRvZ0Psa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, >>> J >>>>   OK, then, I guess you don't know as much about VMS as I thought you >>>>   did.  >>> G >>>I have never claimed to be anywhere near as proficient with VMS as I  >>>am with Unix. >>E >>   Let me be clear:  I based that statement soley on the content of @ >>   other postings you've made which lead me to believe you had >>   more knowledge. >  > I > I had my first fulltime job working with computers in 1971 (Univac 1005 I > and IBM 1401).  That was with the Army.  In 1972 I worked nightshift at E > a bank as an operator.  I then left the computer biz cause I really F > wanted to be an EE. :-)  I did hobbyist micros after that until 1980C > when (back in the Army) I went into computers fulltime.  I was an G > applications programmer (COBOL, Fortran, Pascal, Database on a Univac H > 1100, and an LSI-11,  Lots of assembler on PDP-11, Z80 and M68K,  AlsoL > my first taste of Unix).  I earned my way up to the systems shop.  Univac,F > Prime and lots of micros and more Unix.  This was also when I got myI > first VMS user account.  Can't remember what version, but it was 82-83. H > Since then, I have worked for a couple of major government contractorsK > and done some private contracting on my own. For the last 18 years I have I > been at a University, first three years as the network guru and then 15 / > years with the Computing Sciences Department.  > G > All of this is just to show that I am no beginner and when I say that L > I found Unix easier to learn than VMS it should mean something.  DifferentE > people have different abilities.  You can't assume that because VMS H > was a piece of cake for you that it should be for everyone else.  UnixJ > was a piece of cake for me, look what others say about their experience. > J > I still think that one of the big things that is needed is books.  BooksJ > written in a different style than the documentation.  Everybody does notJ > learn the same way.  Even the education field finally admits that today.M > Personally, I still think a "Nutshell" book would be a big winner.  I think K > if the the publisher could be convinced to pick it up it would server two I > purposes.  it would provide a much simpler text to let new people learn I > VMS (and keep a desktop reference near at hand) and it would provide at M > least a small bit of visibility so that people in decision making positions L > might actually begin to loose this notion that VMS went away a decade ago. > 4 > But, that's just my ramblings. Comes with old age. >  > bill >    >   I I used to work for Princeton University.  I got my first VMS System, VAX  B 11/750 VMS V3.6 there.  I worked mostly with faculty and graduate E students.  If they had ever used a computer before, it was more than  % likely to have been an IBM mainframe.   H It took me about ten or fifteen minutes per student to get them started.I The fact that command names were English words related to function was a  G huge help; it's not rocket science to say PRINT when you want to print  3 something or DELETE when you want to delete a file.   B I now use VMS, Unix and Windows because each is "better" for some  purpose or other.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 16:04:35 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.0 Message-ID: <ENqdne6ehvPJTvHZRVn-vg@comcast.com>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >  >> Bob Koehler wrote:  >>H >>> In article <4d11c5F183pjvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >>> Gunshannon) writes:  >>> L >>>> Probably because I have never run into a task I had to accomplish whereJ >>>> I needed the functionality that is unique to them.  That and the factG >>>> that I haven't a clue where to look for the answer and I have more K >>>> important thigs to do than read obscure documentation for the it's own 
 >>>> sake. >>>  >>>  >>> 6 >>>    Gee, I got it all out of HELP.  That's obscure? >>> H >>>    Now I'm starting to understand why you need so much time when you >>>    deal with VMS.  >>> J >> First, VMS has grow a lot since you learned about it.  Today there are L >> to much help text and to many manuals to read to make that approach work. >  <snip. > J > It goes back to my comparison of RSTS vs VMS, the GUI user interface is 3 > easier in part because it limits what you can do.  >   G The GUI severely limits the mistakes you can make.  Most of the really  I stupid things you might be able to do from the command line are just not   on the menu!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 16:09:07 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.: Message-ID: <UOudnUJK2ZH-SfHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  ; > In article <Z_adnbhSkKSePvHZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >> >>>Bob Koehler wrote:  >>> H >>>>In article <4d11c5F183pjvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >>>>Gunshannon) writes:  <snip>J > I never really thought of it in that manner before, but maybe one of theJ > probelms with HELP is information overload.  I don't doubt that a lot ofL > the answers I have needed in the past were int here, but if you can't findF > that answer, no matter what the reason, the tool just isn't working.    I Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk  - does, you'll never guess what they called it.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 22:17:18 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4d4a3eF18j815U2@individual.net>  ) In article <op.s9rge30bzgicya@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On Thu, 18 May 2006 10:41:48 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   > wrote: > L >> Sorry, but this is not a task for VMS.  The OS will likely be FreeBSD andI >> the webserver apache2.  As for CD drives, every lab PC came with a 52X I >> which was promptly replaced with writers so I have a shelf load of IDE K >> 52X CDROM Drives just gathering dust.  I realize that VMS can do it, but H >> like most everything, no budget, so I use existing hardware.  Any oldC >> PC can handle this job as it is very low demand with mostly I/O.  > J > You might surprise yourself.  I ran Apache under OSF-1 for several yearsF > and it doesn't compare.  Moreover, with Loadbroker you can deliver aJ > rather powerful environment to your students, with inexpensive hardware.J > Keep those CD drives, cause if you get XP1000's the first thing you will( > want to do is to replace those drives.  H You must have missed the part where I said "no budget, so I use existingH hardware". :-)  Sometimes life isn't as rosy as some would paint it here in "the ivory tower".    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 22:05:51 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4d49dvF18j815U1@individual.net>  : In article <UOudnUJK2ZH-SfHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>,6 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > < >> In article <Z_adnbhSkKSePvHZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@libcom.com>,- >> 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>   >>>Karsten Nyblad wrote: >>>  >>>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>>>I >>>>>In article <4d11c5F183pjvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill   >>>>>Gunshannon) writes: > <snip>K >> I never really thought of it in that manner before, but maybe one of the K >> probelms with HELP is information overload.  I don't doubt that a lot of M >> the answers I have needed in the past were int here, but if you can't find G >> that answer, no matter what the reason, the tool just isn't working.  >  > K > Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk  / > does, you'll never guess what they called it.   I Ummm....  that's not information overload.  Information overload would be H if asking for a particular man page just sent all of them to your screen every time.   G As for finding it, if you can describe what you want to do, you can use G "man -k" or apropos to find the appropriate command and then look it up  with the standard man command.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:28:20 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> & Subject: RE: Results of my straw poll.T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840145EA15@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----$ > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20A > [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon  > Sent: May 18, 2006 7:18 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.    	 [snip...]    > >=20A > > One of the problems with your discounting the value of the=20  > documentation=20B > > is, I believe your prior statements about not having any or=20 > much of the=20F > > documentation.  How can you evaluate that which you've never seen? >=20H > Oh, I've seen it.  I have been places with the Orange (now Grey) Wall.B > And, I have copies of the documentation CD's.  And thent here=20 > is what's E > on the web.  While I have usually had no problem getting answers to @ > compiler problems (including language specifics) I have had=20 > considerably@ > less luck when it gets down to the nitty gritty of admining=20 > the systems. >=20 > >=20= > > Speaking of such, I have boxes packed with some of the=20  > older stuff, the=20 A > > orange binders, VMS V4.  Would you be interested in such? =20  > While old,=20 / > > they still cover the majority of using VMS.  >=20H > Actually, I am hoping to set up a machine with a webserver and a bunchG > of CD drives on it for the sole purpose of getting more documentation F > (and the VMS Docs are at the top of the list) out where the studentsG > and faculty can get at it.  I appreciate the offer, but I have enough F > now just fighting to keep the space the machines occupy. (one of theC > other reasons why I really need to work more on moving to Alpha.)  >=20   Bill,    Re: OpenVMS Doc's ..  G Wrt to OpenVMS - why not just provide a pointer to the online doc's?=20    Complete sets are available at:  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/  - http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os82_index.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 22:34:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4d4b3kF18ogfkU1@individual.net>  0 In article <eZ2bg.772$Gs2.335@news.cpqcorp.net>,/ 	Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > tually, I am hoping to set up a machine with a webserver and a bunchH >> of CD drives on it for the sole purpose of getting more documentationG >> (and the VMS Docs are at the top of the list) out where the students  >> and faculty can get at it.   A And somebody had the nerve to tell me I lived in an ivory tower!!    > K >    I'd get some bigger SCSI disks, and set up a series of 600 MB logical  H > disk LD disk device partitions, and load these with the contents, and  > serve those. > J >    Scrounging up and configuring piles of CD drives is rather more work E > than scrounging up and configuring a few bigger disks, and more CD  H > drives also requires more management effort and more physical storage. > G >    A number of the disks around are structured such that you can use  K > subdirectories under your web server directory, which means that you can  F > entirely avoid the LD, um, subterfuge -- the HTML on these disks is I > structured relative to the root, rather than using absolute references.   H I can't remember the last time I had money for SCSI disks.  I can't evenG imagine the kind of hardware I would need to do this with VMS.  I think H it's a safe bet I couldn't do it with my VAX 6000.  On the other hand, IH can throw a 1Ghz Pentium with a Gig of memory at it for nothing.  I haveG them sitting around, rotated out of one of the labs.  Throw in an extra . IDE card and I can hang 7 CDROM drives off it.  F One thing about this job, it sure makes one inventive.  I often wonder@ what it would be like to work once again at a job where you toldG management you needed something and they didn't just laugh and send you  back to your office.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:37:01 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.) Message-ID: <op.s9rqfziyzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:17:18 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  J > You must have missed the part where I said "no budget, so I use existingG > hardware".   Sometimes life isn't as rosy as some would paint it here  > in "the ivory tower". @ I thought you said you were going to pick up a couple of XP1000s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 23:54:02 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.; Message-ID: <ef278$446cecfa$50db5015$14948@news.hispeed.ch>    Mark Berryman wrote:  F > No, I really don't.  I do think it means that Unix is rather poorly H > documented and it takes what is covered is several different books to I > really get an understanding of it, usually books from multiple authors   > and publishers.  >   6 FWIW, *nix drove me nuts until I'd bought a few books.  B > I learned more about computers and programming (and programming H > languages) by reading the documentation provided by Digital that just F > about any other source (possibly including school but that was long I > enough ago that I couldn't be sure of that anymore).  Digital knew how  J > to document.  I never found another vendor who did and I've worked with K > a lot of them.  Of course, when I get my hands on documentation covering  I > something I want to learn, I read it as if it were a novel.  I haven't  D > encountered many others who do that.  Maybe that's the difference. >   F I agree here too, but then I take a similar approach. I wouldn't have ? used the phrase "as if it were a novel" myself, but it's quite  - appropriate to the way I learn something new.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 19:17:57 -0400 - From: bradhamilton <bradhamilton@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.* Message-ID: <446D00A5.6060503@comcast.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:< > In article <UOudnUJK2ZH-SfHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>,8 > 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: [...] L >> Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk 0 >> does, you'll never guess what they called it. > K > Ummm....  that's not information overload.  Information overload would be J > if asking for a particular man page just sent all of them to your screen
 > every time.  > I > As for finding it, if you can describe what you want to do, you can use I > "man -k" or apropos to find the appropriate command and then look it up   > with the standard man command.  D In the context of this thread, (using as few "outside" resources as F possible to get "help") awk may not be the best example; in the first G few paragraphs of "man awk", there is a reference to an "outside" book  F which supposedly provides complete information on using this language.   "Complete" docs, indeed...	:-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:01:02 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.= Message-ID: <446cfc88$0$60787$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > K >> I never really thought of it in that manner before, but maybe one of the K >> probelms with HELP is information overload.  I don't doubt that a lot of I >> the answers I have needed in the past were int here, but if you can't   >> find G >> that answer, no matter what the reason, the tool just isn't working.  >  >  > K > Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk  / > does, you'll never guess what they called it.   F In many cases you can google for the information, and some person has $ written few web pages on that to do.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 23:28:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4d4e9hF15hbjqU1@individual.net>  ) In article <op.s9rqfziyzgicya@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:17:18 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   > wrote: > K >> You must have missed the part where I said "no budget, so I use existing H >> hardware".   Sometimes life isn't as rosy as some would paint it here >> in "the ivory tower".B > I thought you said you were going to pick up a couple of XP1000s  6 Those kinds of deals are never a sure thing until they7 happen.  But, if I did, first priority would be setting $ up a system for student/faculty use.  < I just couldn't see wasting hardware like that on a piddling# task like serving up documentation.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 23:31:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4d4eejF15hbjqU2@individual.net>  * In article <446D00A5.6060503@comcast.net>,0 	bradhamilton <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:= >> In article <UOudnUJK2ZH-SfHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>, 9 >> 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  > [...] M >>> Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk  1 >>> does, you'll never guess what they called it.  >>  L >> Ummm....  that's not information overload.  Information overload would beK >> if asking for a particular man page just sent all of them to your screen  >> every time. >>  J >> As for finding it, if you can describe what you want to do, you can useJ >> "man -k" or apropos to find the appropriate command and then look it up! >> with the standard man command.  > F > In the context of this thread, (using as few "outside" resources as H > possible to get "help") awk may not be the best example; in the first I > few paragraphs of "man awk", there is a reference to an "outside" book  H > which supposedly provides complete information on using this language. >   > "Complete" docs, indeed...	:-)  C So, if I type "HELP COBOL" it's going to give me the whole language  reference, too?     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 19:23:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <446D01FD.C3EA3A13@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:! > Complete sets are available at:   > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/  3 Mister Kerry, it is simpler and easier to remember:    http://www.hp.com/go/vms/doc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:45:23 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.; Message-ID: <42fc8$446d0714$50db5015$19742@news.hispeed.ch>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:, > In article <446D00A5.6060503@comcast.net>,2 > 	bradhamilton <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>= >>>In article <UOudnUJK2ZH-SfHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>, 9 >>>	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  >> >>[...]  >>M >>>>Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk  1 >>>>does, you'll never guess what they called it.  >>> L >>>Ummm....  that's not information overload.  Information overload would beK >>>if asking for a particular man page just sent all of them to your screen  >>>every time. >>> J >>>As for finding it, if you can describe what you want to do, you can useJ >>>"man -k" or apropos to find the appropriate command and then look it up! >>>with the standard man command.  >>F >>In the context of this thread, (using as few "outside" resources as H >>possible to get "help") awk may not be the best example; in the first I >>few paragraphs of "man awk", there is a reference to an "outside" book  H >>which supposedly provides complete information on using this language. >>  >>"Complete" docs, indeed...	:-) >  > E > So, if I type "HELP COBOL" it's going to give me the whole language  > reference, too?  >     F Not the full language reference, but the syntax contained therein and  brief explanations.     From "HELP COBOL":    COBOL     H     Invokes the Compaq COBOL compiler to compile a COBOL source program.E     See the DIGITAL COBOL User Manual and the DIGITAL COBOL Reference &     Manual for additional information.       Format -  G      COBOL [/command-qualifier]... {file-spec [/file-qualifier]... }...     $    Additional information available:  F    release_notes         miscellaneous_topics  IDENTIFICATION_DIVISIONA    ENVIRONMENT_DIVISION  DATA_DIVISION         PROCEDURE_DIVISION @    COPY_statement        REPLACE_statement     Compiler_Messages9    Run-Time_Messages     Parameters            Directives 
    Qualifiers    :-) :-) ;-)    ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 23:45:21 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.+ Message-ID: <e4j0uh0fhr@enews3.newsguy.com>   ( Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:J > Speaking of such, I have boxes packed with some of the older stuff, the H > orange binders, VMS V4.  Would you be interested in such?  While old, - > they still cover the majority of using VMS.   ! > I won't give up my 'gray wall'.   K I'm getting ready to, along with any Orange doc's I still have.  I need the E space, and a "Historical Resource Center" that is being built wants a H historical computer section will take them.  The binders take up to much> space, and I have newer V6 and V7 manuals (both paper and CD).  F What I *WILL NOT* give up is my base 6 volume gray set.  As fas as I'mH concerned, you can't beat the basic V5 System Managers and Users Books. J Besides those and the other 4 books only take up something like 4-5 inches on a bookshelf.    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:20:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <446D0F44.B3AF045D@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > So, if I type "HELP COBOL" it's going to give me the whole language  > reference, too?     ) HELP COBOL misc   gives you a good start.   C Usually, any topics in help that are lowercase are very informative  "tutorial" type content.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 17:47:30 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.) Message-ID: <op.s9rwhgbkzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:28:49 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  + > In article <op.s9rqfziyzgicya@hyrrokkin>, ( > 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:I >> On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:17:18 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> 	 >> wrote:  >>E >>> You must have missed the part where I said "no budget, so I use    >>> existingI >>> hardware".   Sometimes life isn't as rosy as some would paint it here  >>> in "the ivory tower". C >> I thought you said you were going to pick up a couple of XP1000s  > 8 > Those kinds of deals are never a sure thing until they9 > happen.  But, if I did, first priority would be setting & > up a system for student/faculty use. > > > I just couldn't see wasting hardware like that on a piddling% > task like serving up documentation.  >  > bill >   F You might want to have a look at what Jean-Franois Pironne had done.- Here is a copy of mail he posted on WASD list    Hi all,   = I have release a new kit for "Webware for Python" on OpenVMS.   F This new kit include the necessary procedure to setup a Webware server in CGIPlus environment. 2 This is the only difference with the previous kit.  G The setup ro use it as a CGIPlus application is, now, very simple (need 1 only to run 1 DCL procedure and 1 script Python).   8 The Webware server running as a CGIPlus can be access at' http://vmspython.dyndns.org/webkitplus/   F The default example application is generate by the setup procedure and can be a good starting point.   * A more complete demonstration using Rdb is& http://vmspython.dyndns.org/personnel/ (use demo/demo for login)     1 For those who have not read the initial announce:     C Webware for Python (http://www.webwareforpython.org/) is a suite of C Python packages and tools for developing object-oriented, web-based D applications. The suite uses well known design patterns and includes? a fast Application Server, Servlets, Python Server Pages (PSP), C Object-Relational Mapping, Task Scheduling, Session Management, and A many other features. Webware is very modular and easily extended.   A Webware for Python is well proven and platform-independent. It is D compatible with multiple web servers, database servers and operating systems.  E Webware for Python on OpenVMS can run as a "classical" multi threaded A application server or in a WASD (http://wasd.vsm.com.au/) CGIPlus . environment (multi processes, multi accounts).  9 A demonstration is available from the Python for VMS site  (http://vmspython.dyndns.org/)  A Can be download from http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/       
 Jean-Franois    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 21:20:04 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.0 Message-ID: <_9udnZ7TTZDYgPDZ4p2dnA@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:< > In article <UOudnUJK2ZH-SfHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>,8 > 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>< >>>In article <Z_adnbhSkKSePvHZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@libcom.com>,- >>>	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>>  >>>  >>>>Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >>>> >>>> >>>>>Bob Koehler wrote:  >>>>>  >>>>> J >>>>>>In article <4d11c5F183pjvU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >>>>>>Gunshannon) writes:  >> >><snip> >>K >>>I never really thought of it in that manner before, but maybe one of the K >>>probelms with HELP is information overload.  I don't doubt that a lot of M >>>the answers I have needed in the past were int here, but if you can't find G >>>that answer, no matter what the reason, the tool just isn't working.  >> >>K >>Speaking of information overload, how about "man".  If you need what awk  / >>does, you'll never guess what they called it.  >  > K > Ummm....  that's not information overload.  Information overload would be J > if asking for a particular man page just sent all of them to your screen
 > every time.  > I > As for finding it, if you can describe what you want to do, you can use I > "man -k" or apropos to find the appropriate command and then look it up   > with the standard man command. >  > bill >   G All right, I want to parse all (25 systems worth) of my active VMS and  I Layered Product Licenses in order to prepare a report of which ones have  G "MOD_UNITS".   I actually did that once using a VMS port of gawk.  But  G if I didn't know already that awk/nawk/gawk was the tool I needed, how  . the hell would I query with man -k to find it?  I I spent a weekend of my own time developing the awk script to do it.  It  K seemed like a better alternative than trying to prepare the report by hand.   I Man -k is sometimes a useful tool and sometimes not so useful.  You have  D   to have some idea what you are looking for and how to describe it.  E I prefer HELP, myself.  The hierarchical presentation lets me "swing  I through the tree" to get to the piece I need.   Man pages are not nearly  G so well thought out and there are thousands of them vs. the hundred or  G so level 1 help topics.  It's usually a lot easier to find what I need   with help than with man.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 May 2006 01:48:41 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll., Message-ID: <4d4mfpF18fmp9U1@individual.net>  ) In article <op.s9rwhgbkzgicya@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:28:49 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   > wrote: > , >> In article <op.s9rqfziyzgicya@hyrrokkin>,) >> 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: J >>> On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:17:18 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>
 >>> wrote: >>> F >>>> You must have missed the part where I said "no budget, so I use  
 >>>> existing J >>>> hardware".   Sometimes life isn't as rosy as some would paint it here >>>> in "the ivory tower".D >>> I thought you said you were going to pick up a couple of XP1000s >>9 >> Those kinds of deals are never a sure thing until they : >> happen.  But, if I did, first priority would be setting' >> up a system for student/faculty use.  >>? >> I just couldn't see wasting hardware like that on a piddling & >> task like serving up documentation. >> >> bill  >> > H > You might want to have a look at what Jean-Franois Pironne had done./ > Here is a copy of mail he posted on WASD list  >    [many miles of text deleted]  C What did any of that have to do with the fact that I don't have the E hardware to waste (and wouldn't waste it if I did) on a piddling task B like serving up documentation?  When you spend as much effort as IA have to doing so much with so little you tend to get very frugal.   D And, I know you guys don't want to hear this, but I can have Apache2E up and running on a FreeBSD box in less time than it would take me to D load VMS on any box I currently have that is capable of running it. F And it still leaves me short either the CDROM drives or the disk spaceG needed to move all the documentation to.  And we probably shouldn't get B into how long it would take to actually move all that data from CD
 to hard disk.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:24:09 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: Results of my straw poll.) Message-ID: <op.s9r3qjvzzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Thu, 18 May 2006 18:48:41 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  + > In article <op.s9rwhgbkzgicya@hyrrokkin>, ( > 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:I >> On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:28:49 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> 	 >> wrote:  >>- >>> In article <op.s9rqfziyzgicya@hyrrokkin>, * >>> 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K >>>> On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:17:18 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>  >>>> wrote:  >>>>E >>>>> You must have missed the part where I said "no budget, so I use  >>>>> existingK >>>>> hardware".   Sometimes life isn't as rosy as some would paint it here  >>>>> in "the ivory tower". E >>>> I thought you said you were going to pick up a couple of XP1000s  >>> : >>> Those kinds of deals are never a sure thing until they; >>> happen.  But, if I did, first priority would be setting ( >>> up a system for student/faculty use. >>> @ >>> I just couldn't see wasting hardware like that on a piddling' >>> task like serving up documentation.  >>>  >>> bill >>>  >>I >> You might want to have a look at what Jean-Franois Pironne had done. 0 >> Here is a copy of mail he posted on WASD list >> >  > [many miles of text deleted] > E > What did any of that have to do with the fact that I don't have the G > hardware to waste (and wouldn't waste it if I did) on a piddling task D > like serving up documentation?  When you spend as much effort as IC > have to doing so much with so little you tend to get very frugal.  >   E I wasn't thinking about serving up documentation, which, BTW, I would H do as Hoff suggested.  Look at the links in the email, it occurred to meG that there was a lot of stuff there that I thought might be of interest  to you.   F > And, I know you guys don't want to hear this, but I can have Apache2G > up and running on a FreeBSD box in less time than it would take me to E > load VMS on any box I currently have that is capable of running it. H > And it still leaves me short either the CDROM drives or the disk spaceI > needed to move all the documentation to.  And we probably shouldn't get D > into how long it would take to actually move all that data from CD > to hard disk. J I have a bunch of 4 and 9 GB drives you are welcome to and will be freeingI up as many as 24 18 GB soon, to which you are welcome.  They are 80 pin    scsi. 0 FWIW, I have used 80->68 and 68->50 pin adapters >  > bill >    ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2006 22:07:42 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Ruby on OpenVMS* Message-ID: <e4ir7e0g7@enews1.newsguy.com>  K Thanks to some information Hoff posted, I now have Ruby installed on my VMS K box, and I'm "kicking the tires" so to speak.  Due to my fondness for Perl, F it looks to have some real possibilities, though I am finding it a bit< disconcerting at times (basically how it handles variables).  L Is there any information available on using it with VMS or RDB?  Does anyone have any examples?   	Zane    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 11:43:08 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>) Subject: Re: SORT, LEF, SYS$PUT and COBOL C Message-ID: <1147977788.657943.317070@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   @ Sounds like you would want to get support going on this as it isD unlikely to be a coding issue. More like a driver / IO device issue.4 Does other IO to the same device come through still?  D Rob Eulenstein (HP Support) has been doing presenations on analyzingE hanging and looping programs (sometimes hard to tell apart :-). He is G scheduled for the bootcamp here in Nashua next week. You may be able to  find his presnetation(s).   % Good pre-work. Like the busy channel. G Sort doing a $PUT huh? Then there would be RMS structures and with SHOW E PROC/RMS=(FAB,RAB,BDBSUM) you should be able to see where and in what  file.   
 Good luck, Hein.        Gerald Marsh wrote:  > Hello VMSers > ? > I'm hoping someone out there will have a clue about this one:  > * > OpenVMS - V7.1 I think - running on VAX. > G > Old COBOL program hangs in LEF in the middle of a large sort. I think D > the sort is the one in the PROCEDURE-DIVISION and not the callable > SOR$ routines. > & > SDA shows busy channel to SORTWORK1. > D > Program counter in $PUT within SORTSHR. Oh, after the WAITFR call. > F > Monitored the process for three hours and it doesn't use CPU neither > does DIO or BIO increase.  > G > Previous attempts to delete the process have resulted in an RWAST and 	 > reboot.  > G > I cannot see any quotas being exhausted including the pooled quotas - * > there are no other processes in the job. > B > Sometimes it works ok but we've seen this a few times now and it2 > always requires a reboot to "sort" the mess out. > F > We were hoping to spread the load around more files but I cannot seeE > any way of increasing the number of work files which COBOL uses for @ > its own sort. I'm quite sure there's no logical name which can > override the default of two. > C > Any help gratefully recieved as ever and keep that flag a'flying.  >  > Bye for now, >  > 	 > Gerald.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2006 12:50:30 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: speeding up LAVC with switch instead of hub? 3 Message-ID: <76m$S44S9so8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   O In article <op.s9q0iiemzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: 3 > On Thu, 18 May 2006 05:56:11 -0700, Bob Koehler   2 > <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: > : >> In article <446B8AFB.98487D3C@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  ) >> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: L >>> I've got my MACs and DSL stuff on a Switch. The cluster is on a hub withK >>> one port going to the switch. This way, the cluster doesn't see traffic @ >>> between the macs and the internet, or appletalk traffic etc. >>G >>    I've got all my home stuff on a switch.  You can tell what's what J >>    because the old DEC stuff is doing 10MB which makes the green lightsH >>    come on and the rest are newer boxes doing 100MB which makes the  	 >> yellow I >>    lights come on.  You can tell when there's a lot of SCS traffic, it ) >>    makes the green lights flash a lot.  >>> > I don't think yellow is good, at least not on a Cisco switch  ?   I think it's a Linksys switch.  The documented meaning of the 5   lights is simply 10MB vs. 100MB vs. no-link (dark).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:17:50 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: SWS-2.1 (Apache) question? ; Message-ID: <1cfa2$446d009f$50db5015$18497@news.hispeed.ch>    Neil Rieck wrote:  > If you check out this link: K > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_iguide_21.html F > you'll see all the SWS-2.1 (Apache) processes running at priority 6. > M > OpenVMS V7.3-2 on node APSERV   1-AUG-2005 15:55:34.09  Uptime  67 06:17:52  > I >   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O CPU       Page flts  Pages  > I > 2020026D APACHE$SWS      LEF      6 2526   0 00:00:11.35       839 1016 H > 2020026F APACHE$SWS0000  LEF      6 2556   0 00:00:12.69       824 979I > 20200270 APACHE$SWS0001  LEF      6 2530   0 00:00:09.41       834 1010 H > 20200271 APACHE$SWS0002  LEF      6 2493   0 00:00:14.00       811 978H > 20200272 APACHE$SWS0003  LEF      6 2499   0 00:00:13.66       822 988I > 20200273 APACHE$SWS0004  LEF      6 2487   0 00:00:12.01       832 1002 H > 20200274 APACHE$SWS0005  LEF      6 2501   0 00:00:15.22       810 994 > K > However, all these processes are running at either 9 or 10 on my system.  G > Does anyone know how to start SWS-2.1 at a lower priority? (could it  4 > possibly be controlled by an unpublished logical?) >   C I have _an_ answer, but don't know if it is entirely what you want.   H SWS 2.1 here, on VMS V8.2, and I get those processes running at 6, with  a base priority of 4.   G No CGIs to play with here, but if I download a PDF (over my LAN) I see  I that the APACHE$SWS000n process which has clocked up the I/Os drops back  1 to priority 4 for a while, then climbs back to 6.   D Googling for "apache process priority" came up with the link below, G which suggests that the priority of processes on OS X is determined by  # the priority of the parent process.   3 http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=5877   H Accordingly, I have just submitted APACHE$STARTUP to a batch queue with E a base priority of 3 and hey presto, all the APACHE* processes start   with a base priority of 3.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:08:02 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ' Subject: Re: SWS-2.1 (Apache) question? 9 Message-ID: <z_7bg.9037$aa4.314105@news20.bellglobal.com>   = "Paul Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote in message  5 news:1cfa2$446d009f$50db5015$18497@news.hispeed.ch...  > Neil Rieck wrote:  [...snip...] > E > I have _an_ answer, but don't know if it is entirely what you want.  > L > SWS 2.1 here, on VMS V8.2, and I get those processes running at 6, with a  > base priority of 4.  > I > No CGIs to play with here, but if I download a PDF (over my LAN) I see  K > that the APACHE$SWS000n process which has clocked up the I/Os drops back  3 > to priority 4 for a while, then climbs back to 6.  > L > Googling for "apache process priority" came up with the link below, which G > suggests that the priority of processes on OS X is determined by the  ! > priority of the parent process.  > 5 > http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=5877  > L > Accordingly, I have just submitted APACHE$STARTUP to a batch queue with a L > base priority of 3 and hey presto, all the APACHE* processes start with a  > base priority of 3.   L You just solved my problem. I did a coldstart of Apache from my own account J and it started up with a base priority of 4 (because our system is always L active, I've only been doing graceful restarts of Apache after changing the % server configuration parameter file).   H Previously, Apache is started at boot by the STARTUP task which runs at K priority 10 on my system (don't ask, I think this has been there since the  G VAX days but no one can remember why). This makes me wonder what other  * things are running at too high a priority.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 19:19:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer  wasunsuccessful , Message-ID: <446D0106.64EC366A@teksavvy.com>   "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: A > It's not quite that easy.  DHCP on the WAN means that you don't + > necessarily know what DNS servers to use.   E Correct. In my case, I run a BIND server in my LAN. This allows me to A have my own local zone file that overrides my domain,s public DNS H entries. This way, when I aske for www.vaxination.ca in my lan, I get myG lan's IP address , whereas someone on the internet will end up querying Q my public DNS server hosted elsewhere which feeds the public internet IP address.   D And having my own DNS server also means I am independant of my ISP'sC server changes. This allows me to truly have a fixed IP environment , inside my lan, totally indeendant of my ISP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 14:49:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was  unsuccessfu , Message-ID: <446CC1C3.ED384504@teksavvy.com>    stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > $ tcpip show host    > Host address    Host name  > & > 127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhost > 192.168.1.12    ds10.DHCPPool * > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found: > -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was unsuccessful  F SHOW HOST asks the name server  (TCPIP SHOW NAME) for all the hosts itE knowns about. If your name server refuses, then you get that message.   ( > Now my domain is openvms not DHCPpool.B > I can see from the logicals that TCPIP defines that my router is" > sending the openvms domain name.  @ You might want to define it as openvms.xxx and see if it makes aH difference.  The problem is that without your own name server, your fake) domain and host names may cause problems.   > > Where is the   "TCPIP$INET_DOMAIN" = "DHCPPool" coming from.  H Download the TCPIP Management manual, it will describe what logicals youF can define to cause the DHCP client to log its activity. This may give' you a good idea of what really happens.     # >   "TCPIP$BIND_DOMAIN" = "openvms"   D This is the default domain tagged on when you try to resolve a host.  $ >   "TCPIP$INET_DOMAIN" = "DHCPPool" >   "TCPIP$INET_HOST" = "ds10"* >   "TCPIP$INET_HOSTADDR" = "192.168.1.12"  * This is the actualy identity of your host.   > $ tcpip show route > & >                              DYNAMIC > > > Type           Destination                           Gateway > 9 > AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.1.1 7 > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1 : > AN    192.168.1.0/24                        192.168.1.12: > AH    192.168.1.12                          192.168.1.12 >  > $ tcpip show route /permD > %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE)* > -TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found     TCPIP CREATE ROUTE  F This creates an empty permanent route file and should remove the above error message.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 21:43:50 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> Y Subject: Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was  unsuccessfu : Message-ID: <8c401$446cce77$50db5015$7806@news.hispeed.ch>    stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > Hi Group,  > A > So it has nothing to do with "TCPIP$INET_DOMAIN" = "DHCPPool" ?  >  > Where does this come from? > 1 > What is configuring / setting this to DHCPPool.  >   G Any particular reason you are using DHCP instead of a fixed IP address   in the 192.168.1.n range?   H DHCP from your router to your ISP does _not_ mean that you also need to F use DHCP on the LAN side. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, I've seen $ this cause confusion more than once.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 17:31:37 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was  unsuccessfu 0 Message-ID: <otSdnfjoeNQnevHZRVn-qA@comcast.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  n > In article <8c401$446cce77$50db5015$7806@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: > " >>stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: >>B >>>So it has nothing to do with "TCPIP$INET_DOMAIN" = "DHCPPool" ? >>>  >>>Where does this come from?  >>> 2 >>>What is configuring / setting this to DHCPPool. >>I >>Any particular reason you are using DHCP instead of a fixed IP address   >>in the 192.168.1.n range?  >  >  > Good question ;-)  >  > J >>DHCP from your router to your ISP does _not_ mean that you also need to H >>use DHCP on the LAN side. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, I've seen & >>this cause confusion more than once. >  > H > I second this. Also because some parts of TCPIP (like PWIP) still haveI > problems with DHCP (eg. PWIP can't start if there is no IP address yet, F > and won't automatically start when there finally is one, and so on).N > Think VMS as server and use fixed IP addresses. And use DHCP - IN YOUR LAN -, > if ever, for your (WLAN) notebooks only... >   @ It's not quite that easy.  DHCP on the WAN means that you don't C necessarily know what DNS servers to use.  Comcast, at least, goes  G through periodic "convulsions" where everything stops working.  I then  C have to reboot the cable modem, reboot the router, all the PCs and  G sometimes reconfigure all my VMS Systems and all my Solaris systems to  H use a different set of DNS servers.  My Linksys BEFSR81 router does not F implement the full DHCP protocol so I can't query it for just the DNS B servers.  I'm hoping to find a Cisco SOHO router at a price I can 
 afford. . . .    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 00:18:17 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>Y Subject: Re: TCPIP Configuration -TCPIP-E-BIND_NO_ZONEXFR, zone transfer was unsuccessful , Message-ID: <d98bg.14938$Nw6.11208@trnddc03>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote: " > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > I >> In article <8c401$446cce77$50db5015$7806@news.hispeed.ch>, Paul Sture  ) >> <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:  >>$ >>> stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: >>> D >>>> So it has nothing to do with "TCPIP$INET_DOMAIN" = "DHCPPool" ? >>>> >>>> Where does this come from?  >>>>4 >>>> What is configuring / setting this to DHCPPool. >>>  >>> C >>> Any particular reason you are using DHCP instead of a fixed IP  % >>> address in the 192.168.1.n range?  >> >> >> >> Good question ;-) >> >>I >>> DHCP from your router to your ISP does _not_ mean that you also need  H >>> to use DHCP on the LAN side. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, I've - >>> seen this cause confusion more than once.  >> >> >>I >> I second this. Also because some parts of TCPIP (like PWIP) still have J >> problems with DHCP (eg. PWIP can't start if there is no IP address yet,G >> and won't automatically start when there finally is one, and so on). J >> Think VMS as server and use fixed IP addresses. And use DHCP - IN YOUR  >> LAN -- >> if ever, for your (WLAN) notebooks only...  >> > B > It's not quite that easy.  DHCP on the WAN means that you don't E > necessarily know what DNS servers to use.  Comcast, at least, goes  I > through periodic "convulsions" where everything stops working.  I then  E > have to reboot the cable modem, reboot the router, all the PCs and  I > sometimes reconfigure all my VMS Systems and all my Solaris systems to  J > use a different set of DNS servers.  My Linksys BEFSR81 router does not H > implement the full DHCP protocol so I can't query it for just the DNS D > servers.  I'm hoping to find a Cisco SOHO router at a price I can  > afford. . . .   H You could set up one or two of your VMS systems as DNS servers (caching,E forwarding, or even primary servers for your local, possibly made-up, C domain) and then point everything else at them.  Then you only have E 1 or 2 systems to change if there if Comcast changes everything.  And 6 you shouldn't have to reboot them to make the changes.  B Since you're behind a NAT router, nothing off your LAN should everF see your private addresses or host names; they'll just see the router.D So as long as your made-up domain name doesn't collide with anythingC on the Internet, you won't have any problems.  (If it does collide, D you won't be able to get their.  I.E. Don't pick HP.COM as your madeE up domain.)  You can acquire a real domain name from numerous places, F or if you have a real domain for work that you control or are at leastE friends with the administrators, you can make up a subdomain for your B own use.  (I.E. I use abc.egh.com for my home LAN, because I'm the@ administrator for our work domain egh.com, and so I know I'm not going to break anything.)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:58:35 -0600  From: Dan Notov <d9nno@hp.com>, Subject: Re: Thundering Hurd pacing HP gains, Message-ID: <446c8b9b$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Tom Linden wrote: 7 > On Thu, 18 May 2006 05:59:27 -0700, Robert Deininger  ' > <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote:  > : >> In article <op.s9o76rrnzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden"  >> <tom@kednos.com> wrote: >>G >>> On Wed, 17 May 2006 06:55:16 -0700, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:  >>> H >>>> The company's enterprise storage and servers business reported $4.3 >>>> billion< >>>> in revenue, up 2 percent from the year-earlier quarter. >>> H >>> From which I guess you can cocnlude that VMS represents about 25% of >>> that unit. >>& >> That's a strange thing to conclude. > G > Not at all,  Unless there has been a change in VMS revenues, for the   > past severalJ > years it has averaged about $1Billion per quarter.  Of course my source  > could have been  > wrong, but I don't think so.I That revenue is probably split between two divisions: Enterprise Storage  B & Servers, Business Critical Solutions (Where VMS engineering and E Alpha/Integrity servers live,) and HP Services, where support lives.  C Both units report through their respective units to the Technology  L Solutions Group, which owns ESS, HP Services, & Software (OpenView & others)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 10:56:48 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> K Subject: Re: XP1000 SRM Firmware (was: Re: Digital PWS 500au Firmware V6.9) ) Message-ID: <op.s9rdgyt8zgicya@hyrrokkin>   J On Thu, 18 May 2006 10:16:11 -0700, Steven M. Schweda <sms@antinode.org>   wrote:  J >    I had no trouble upgrading the firmware on my XP1000 (500MHz) systemsG > when I got them.  As I recall, I used an Alpha Firmware Update CD-ROM G > (probably one from a Non-Commercial Tru64 UNIX kit).  (When I got the I > systems, the firmware couldn't identify an ELSA GLoria graphics card by G > name, for example.  Now, it just can't identify an Ati Radeon 7500 by J > name.)  I get firmware-related complaints only when booting VMS versions > after V7.3-2. 5 > alp $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "CONSOLE_VERSION")  > V5.9-1  J No, you wouldn't.  The point was to get something later, 6.x or 7.x, whichE had additional features to which I referred.    I wonder if the major I firmware version was originally intended to corresponfd to the chip, e.g. K EV5, etc.  BTW, saw somewhere, don't remember where now, but reference to    anK XP1000 at 750MHz with EV67, wonder if that ever got past a powerpoint slide  or whatever.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.276 ************************