1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 23 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 285       Contents: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY  Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY  Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY  Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY  Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY " Re: Carly Fiorina bio at wikipedia" Re: Carly Fiorina bio at wikipedia Educating potential VMS users ! RE: Educating potential VMS users ! Re: Educating potential VMS users ! Re: Educating potential VMS users ! Re: Educating potential VMS users ! Re: Educating potential VMS users ! Re: Educating potential VMS users 
 F$GETQUI Doc? / Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000 / Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000 / Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000 / Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000 / Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000 / Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000 ) MOSAIC / MOTIF bug (long pull down menus) - Re: MOSAIC / MOTIF bug (long pull down menus) 9 Re: Pathworks question (I Know but that group is dormant) 9 Re: Pathworks question (I Know but that group is dormant) 9 Re: Pathworks question (I Know but that group is dormant)  Re: SHOW$DEBUG Re: SHOW$DEBUG Re: SHOW$DEBUG  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 08:21:56 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> $ Subject: An obscure bug in DIRECTORYB Message-ID: <1148397716.029346.54880@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  ; I have discovered a bug in the DIRECTORY command!  - surely ; one of the oldest, most stable commands in the DCL lexicon. D This was brought to me by a colleague who tried the bizarre command:2 DIRECTORY /SELECT=FILE=(NONAME,NOTYPE,NODIR,NOVER)2 (You really don't want to know what he was up to).< And this accvio's (on version 7.3-2) as demonstrated below..   BONNIE-> SHOW SYSTEM /NOPROCC OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node BONNIE  23-MAY-2006 14:09:49.58  Uptime  12  05:18:45 BONNIE->@ BONNIE->directory sys$login/sel=file=(noname,notype,nodir,nover) Directory INS_ROOT:[000000] ; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=0000000000026000, PC=000000000003BF0C, PS=0000001B2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000005 1                         Name   = 000000000000000C 1                                  0000000000000000 1                                  0000000000026000 1                                  000000000003BF0C 1                                  000000000000001B      Register dump:9     R0  = 00000000000266A8  R1  = 00000000000266A8  R2  =  00000000000106909     R3  = 0000000000025768  R4  = 00000000000003D0  R5  =  00000000000000009     R6  = 0000000000000002  R7  = 0000000000000041  R8  =  00000000000124709     R9  = 0000000000018574  R10 = 0000000000010001  R11 =  000000007FFCDBE09     R12 = 0000000000000000  R13 = 000000007AEDC7D0  R14 =  0000000000010DF09     R15 = 000000007AEDBE10  R16 = 0000000000000400  R17 =  00000000000000009     R18 = 000000007AE136E8  R19 = 000000007AE136CC  R20 =  00000000000000009     R21 = 0000000000000000  R22 = 000000007AE136E8  R23 =  0000000000020C709     R24 = 0000000000000000  R25 = 0000000000000021  R26 =  000000000003BF289     R27 = 0000000000000000  R28 = 000000000003AF90  R29 =  000000007AE138609     SP  = 000000007AE13860  PC  = 000000000003BF0C  PS  =  200000000000001B  G However what is truly bizarre is that this behaviour does not appear in * earlier versions of VMS!  Check this out..   BELLUM-> SHOW SYSTEM /NOPROCESS C OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node BELLUM  23-MAY-2006 15:51:11.28  Uptime  12  21:54:00 BELLUM->A BELLUM-> directory sys$login/sel=file=(noname,notype,nodir,nover)    Directory USRDISK:[JGP]                              Total of 47 files.  C How weird is that? I could understand it, if it were a bug that has ? always been present in DCL, since it is such a stupid command I @ would guess nobody would ever want to use it, so nobody probably, ever tested it, and nobody ever reported it.  E .. but it's not; it's a bug that appeared somewhere between 7.1-2 and F 7.3-2. I am amazed that the VMS tecchies are still tinkering with this0 venerable old command at this stage in its life.  C FYI if you are interested, I would add that when I spoke to the guy E who raised this problem with me, I asked what he was really trying to @ achieve with this abstruse, incomprehensible command - and afterD I introduced him to the joys of the F$PARSE lexical function, he hasA abandoned the command, so with luck, it may never appear again on  the horizon.  C But it is kind of amusing that such a problem can suddenly arise in 1 a boring, run of the mill command like DIRECTORY.    - John   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 10:33:07 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY3 Message-ID: <CisWXK2CSmV6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <1148397716.029346.54880@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> writes:= > I have discovered a bug in the DIRECTORY command!  - surely = > one of the oldest, most stable commands in the DCL lexicon. F > This was brought to me by a colleague who tried the bizarre command:4 > DIRECTORY /SELECT=FILE=(NONAME,NOTYPE,NODIR,NOVER)4 > (You really don't want to know what he was up to).> > And this accvio's (on version 7.3-2) as demonstrated below.. >  > BONNIE-> SHOW SYSTEM /NOPROCE > OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node BONNIE  23-MAY-2006 14:09:49.58  Uptime  12 
 > 05:18:45
 > BONNIE->B > BONNIE->directory sys$login/sel=file=(noname,notype,nodir,nover) > Directory INS_ROOT:[000000] = > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual < > address=0000000000026000, PC=000000000003BF0C, PS=0000001B  = That seems to be fixed in a very recent version of directory, < so it now produces what the user requested, a bunch line for each file in the directory.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 09:02:43 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> ( Subject: Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORYB Message-ID: <1148400163.701466.54370@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:z > In article <1148397716.029346.54880@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> writes:? > > I have discovered a bug in the DIRECTORY command!  - surely ? > > one of the oldest, most stable commands in the DCL lexicon. H > > This was brought to me by a colleague who tried the bizarre command:6 > > DIRECTORY /SELECT=FILE=(NONAME,NOTYPE,NODIR,NOVER)6 > > (You really don't want to know what he was up to).@ > > And this accvio's (on version 7.3-2) as demonstrated below.. > >   > > BONNIE-> SHOW SYSTEM /NOPROCG > > OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node BONNIE  23-MAY-2006 14:09:49.58  Uptime  12  > > 05:18:45 > > BONNIE->D > > BONNIE->directory sys$login/sel=file=(noname,notype,nodir,nover) > > Directory INS_ROOT:[000000] ? > > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual > > > address=0000000000026000, PC=000000000003BF0C, PS=0000001B > ? > That seems to be fixed in a very recent version of directory, > > so it now produces what the user requested, a bunch line for > each file in the directory.   D Works okay in Alpha V8.2.  Just a bunch of blank lines with a header# line and the trailing totals lines.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:20:18 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)( Subject: Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY$ Message-ID: <e4vco2$did$2@online.de>  G In article <1148397716.029346.54880@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Big 1 John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> writes:    = > I have discovered a bug in the DIRECTORY command!  - surely = > one of the oldest, most stable commands in the DCL lexicon. F > This was brought to me by a colleague who tried the bizarre command:4 > DIRECTORY /SELECT=FILE=(NONAME,NOTYPE,NODIR,NOVER)4 > (You really don't want to know what he was up to).> > And this accvio's (on version 7.3-2) as demonstrated below..   Ditto on 7.3 VAX.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:50:50 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ( Subject: Re: An obscure bug in DIRECTORY) Message-ID: <op.s90jq0sizgicya@hyrrokkin>   > On Tue, 23 May 2006 09:02:43 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com  ! <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:   F > Works okay in Alpha V8.2.  Just a bunch of blank lines with a header% > line and the trailing totals lines.   K True, but nothing prior.  The number of blanks is equal to the number files , not displayed divide by the value of /COLUMN   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 07:11:27 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> + Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina bio at wikipedia 7 Message-ID: <r5Ccg.641$ho5.74140@news20.bellglobal.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com> wrote in message ' news:44726661.C050A22D@vaxination.ca...  [...snip...] > J > Before she was fired, she had outed herself as openly republican and sheB > had said that she had hoped to be able to contribute to the BushG > regime's second administration.  Not sure about her potential role at J > world bank, but she had been considered for Homeland Security because ofJ > her experience in merging Compaq with HP.  However, she was fired before7 > that and became tainted goods  unusable for politics.  >  [...snip...]  3 This following quote from the article blew me away:   H "Throughout her career at HP, Fiorina made many speeches at tradeshows, L meetings, and conferences. She is oft-cited for a statement made on January A 14, 2004, when she and other technology company leaders met with  G Congressional members and the Bush administration to lobby them not to  E impose new trade restrictions aimed at keeping U.S. jobs from moving  K overseas. In that meeting, Fiorina was reported to proclaim that "There is  M no job that is America's God-given right anymore. We all have to compete for  I jobs." While her statement could be viewed as a blunt description of the  H facts of the time, Fiorina could not escape the impression that she was K condescending and elitist to the eye of the public. Despite her efforts to  K lessen criticism by publishing a clarifying op-ed piece on the Wall Street  L Journal one week later, Fiorina's statement left a bitter taste in American = workers who were struggling to find and maintain their jobs."        ###   K I am always confused when North American execs tell the rest of us that we  M must all compete in a world market place. Then these same execs change their  M tune when applying new rules to themselves like "restricting their income to  K 25 times more than their lowest paid employees", "ensuring that 50% of the  K board of directors are filled with employees rather than execs", etc. They  ! really want to have it both ways.     
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 07:03:04 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> + Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina bio at wikipedia ) Message-ID: <op.s90bzeq7zgicya@hyrrokkin>   G On Tue, 23 May 2006 04:11:27 -0700, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>    wrote:  K > I am always confused when North American execs tell the rest of us that    > weJ > must all compete in a world market place. Then these same execs change   > their F > tune when applying new rules to themselves like "restricting their   > income to J > 25 times more than their lowest paid employees", "ensuring that 50% of   > the I > board of directors are filled with employees rather than execs", etc.    > They# > really want to have it both ways.   H The problem lies with the corporate charters, that permit the foxes to   guard 
 the chickens.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2006 13:35:24 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Educating potential VMS users, Message-ID: <4dghcrF1aet50U1@individual.net>  B A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) thatA could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right # now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".     The Preface starts: E      "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are using E       a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E by E       becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on'        experience."  E I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, this F coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot ofI people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of time. G Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS would F make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS
 has to offer?   8 So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:59:33 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> * Subject: RE: Educating potential VMS users: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEMBHIAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----F > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]On > Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon % > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:35 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Educating potential VMS users >  > D > A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) thatC > could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right % > now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".   >  > The Preface starts: G >      "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are using G >       a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E by G >       becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on'  >       experience." > G > I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, this H > coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot ofK > people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of time. I > Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS would H > make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS > has to offer?  > : > So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-) >  > bill >    Volume 2A of the V5.0 docset?    Dan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:16:37 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> * Subject: Re: Educating potential VMS users0 Message-ID: <vPGdne1DH_PahO7ZRVn-vg@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) thatC > could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right % > now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".   >  > The Preface starts: G >      "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are using G >       a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E by G >       becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on'  >       experience." > G > I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, this H > coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot ofK > people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of time. I > Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS would H > make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS > has to offer?  > : > So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-) >  > bill >   B It has been done.  Several times.  None were "Best Sellers".  See:9 http://home.comcast.net/~rgilbert88/VMS_Bibliography.html   F I'd be happy to write another one but I'd want a substantial advance!   How much money are you offering?   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2006 14:30:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: Educating potential VMS users, Message-ID: <4dgkksF1a16boU1@individual.net>  0 In article <vPGdne1DH_PahO7ZRVn-vg@comcast.com>,6 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:E >> A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) that D >> could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right& >> now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".  >>   >> The Preface starts:  H >>      "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are usingH >>       a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E byH >>       becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on' >>       experience."  >>  H >> I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, thisI >> coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot of L >> people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of time.J >> Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS wouldI >> make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS  >> has to offer? >>  ; >> So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-)  >>   >> bill  >>   > D > It has been done.  Several times.  None were "Best Sellers".  See:; > http://home.comcast.net/~rgilbert88/VMS_Bibliography.html  > H > I'd be happy to write another one but I'd want a substantial advance! " > How much money are you offering?   = I'm not offering anything.  Well, except for ideas to try and < kickstart what's left of VMS.  Why does it seem like I'm the; only one left who even cares?  And I am not even one of the . VMS fanatics.  Maybe I'm just wasting my time.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 08:57:48 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> * Subject: Re: Educating potential VMS usersC Message-ID: <1148399868.557841.234930@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Tom Linden wrote: E > On Tue, 23 May 2006 06:59:54 -0700, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:  >  > >  > > > > > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 05/23/2006 09:35:24 AM: > > G > >> A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) that F > >> could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right' > >> now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".  > >> > >> The Preface starts:J > >>      "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are usingJ > >>       a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E byJ > >>       becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on' > >>       experience."  > >>J > >> I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, thisK > >> coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot of H > >> people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of
 > >> time.L > >> Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS wouldK > >> make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS  > >> has to offer? > > I > > IIRC, there once was a "VMS Users Guide" in the DocSet.  It explained H > > about LOGIN, HELP, EDIT (EDT at the time), and other getting startedJ > > stuff.  It was discontinued, I think because we got too sophisticated. > >  > >>= > >> So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-)  > > 5 > > Anyhow, that tome might be a good starting-place.  > >  > > L > Anybody have a copy, preferably in sdml format?  I'd like to put up a copy > on our site. > Tom  > >   E The "OpenVMS User's Manual" is still there.  It's available in html ( F http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489PRO.HTML ) or in PDF (K http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/OVMS_731_USERS.PDF  ) versions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:51:10 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> * Subject: Re: Educating potential VMS users9 Message-ID: <1--dnQJnfYAIoe7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <vPGdne1DH_PahO7ZRVn-vg@comcast.com>,8 > 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: F >>> A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) thatE >>> could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right ' >>> now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".   >>>  >>> The Preface starts: I >>>      "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are using I >>>       a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E by I >>>       becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on'  >>>       experience." >>> I >>> I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, this J >>> coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot ofM >>> people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of time. K >>> Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS would J >>> make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS >>> has to offer?  >>> < >>> So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-) >>>  >>> bill >>> E >> It has been done.  Several times.  None were "Best Sellers".  See: < >> http://home.comcast.net/~rgilbert88/VMS_Bibliography.html >>I >> I'd be happy to write another one but I'd want a substantial advance!  # >> How much money are you offering?  >   ? > I'm not offering anything.  Well, except for ideas to try and > > kickstart what's left of VMS.  Why does it seem like I'm the= > only one left who even cares?  And I am not even one of the 0 > VMS fanatics.  Maybe I'm just wasting my time. >  > bill >   D I think the point is, regardless of your perspective, which appears G might be based upon not having and/or seen the existing documentation,  & that documentation is not the problem.  G Then again, there is that time honored tradition, when all else fails,  % then consider reading the directions.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:09:52 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> * Subject: Re: Educating potential VMS users: Message-ID: <7fidnauamsx93O7ZnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <vPGdne1DH_PahO7ZRVn-vg@comcast.com>,8 > 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>E >>>A short time ago we were discussing books (beyond the docset) that D >>>could be useful.  I have sitting ont he desk in front mf me right& >>>now a book titled "RSTS/E Primer".  >>>  >>>The Preface starts:  H >>>     "This primerintroduces the RSTS/E system to people who are usingH >>>      a computer for the first time.  You will learn to use RSTS/E byH >>>      becoming familiar with computer concepts and gaining 'hands on' >>>      experience."  >>> H >>>I think this kind of book would be useful.  As a matter of fact, thisI >>>coupled with a "Nutshell" book as a desk reference could make a lot of L >>>people who have never used VMS productive in a very short period of time.J >>>Once they learn to be productive, all the other advantages of VMS wouldI >>>make a lot more sense and might lead to increased interest in what VMS  >>>has to offer? >>> ; >>>So, anybody interested in taking on such a project?  :-)  >>>  >>>bill  >>>  >>D >>It has been done.  Several times.  None were "Best Sellers".  See:; >>http://home.comcast.net/~rgilbert88/VMS_Bibliography.html  >>H >>I'd be happy to write another one but I'd want a substantial advance! " >>How much money are you offering? >  >   ? > I'm not offering anything.  Well, except for ideas to try and > > kickstart what's left of VMS.  Why does it seem like I'm the= > only one left who even cares?  And I am not even one of the 0 > VMS fanatics.  Maybe I'm just wasting my time. >  > bill >   I I think it's too late.  I think it has been too late since ca. 1995 when  F Digital decided that Unix was the wave of the future and that Digital I should de-emphasize VMS in favor of Unix.  They did just that.  Unix WAS  C the wave of the future but D|i|g|i|t|a|l Unix never got out of the   starting gate.   R.|I.|P.  D|i|g|i|t|a|l    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 14:04:14 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: F$GETQUI Doc?, Message-ID: <4473165e$1@news.langstoeger.at>  O On http://www.openvms.digital.com/doc/82FINAL/9996/9996pro_136.html#index_x_662  there is a statement:   A $GETQUI		Invokes the $GETQUI system service to return information 7 		about queues, batch and print jobs currently in those : 		queues, form definitions, and characteristic definitions 		kept in the queue database.   ; 		+On VAX, also returns information about a queue manager.    6 Does anyone know, what is meant by the last statement?B I know of some (modern) GETQUI items only valid for Alpha and I64,; but I so far don't know one for VAX only. What did I miss?   Or is the doc wrong?   TIA    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 06:41:02 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-0007 Message-ID: <YEBcg.638$ho5.74365@news20.bellglobal.com>   4 "John Reagan" <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote in message * news:osncg.894$Vg6.807@news.cpqcorp.net... > Michael D. Ober wrote: > L >> comparisons.  Unfortunately I inherited this code and it's in a financial= >> payment module.  I am obviously wary of breaking the code.  > G > Please don't tell me that the code uses G_float to track currency!!!   > Yikes! > J > I don't suspect any compiler bug, but have you tried the latest version 	 > (V1.6)?  > E > I don't think there is any way to turn hard comparisons into fuzzy   > comparisons. >  > --  
 > John Reagan 1 > HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  > Hewlett-Packard Company   B More than 10 years ago I ran into similar problems in a financial J application and switched from FLOAT to DECIMAL (you need to make sure you G invoke OPTION DECIMAL ROUNDING). If it is not possible to rewrite your  L application, you may need to switch from FLOAT to DECIMAL in certain places  prior to testing or comparison.   K If you don't do this then you'll need to add all kinds of weird stuff like   "testing for negative 0" etc.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 06:52:26 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000- Message-ID: <fADcg.5$Y6.1976@news.uswest.net>      F Like I said, I inherited this code.  Also, I found the problem.  I wasI actually getting at true "0" back - thanks to the suggestion of putting a K debug statement in.  It turns out the failing conditional I was looking for J was a few lines further down the code and it was a simple ">" instead of aH ">=".  The code is also rather speghetti like because of all the special cases in it.  L As for using GFloat for currency, my preference would be to use Decimal, butL when this code was originally written, Decimal wasn't an option.  Also, whenL you're doing interest computations, you need a floating point or the resultsG are inaccurate.  Take a look at your credit card statements - the daily J interest rate is always shown as an extended decimal for that very reason.   Mike.     . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message# news:op.s9yvo8lkzgicya@hyrrokkin... F > On Mon, 22 May 2006 11:31:48 -0700, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote: > H > > Please don't tell me that the code uses G_float to track currency!!!
 > > Yikes! > > 6 > My thought too. Maybe they keep the rounding errors. >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2006 13:07:00 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000, Message-ID: <4dgfnkF1a0dmtU1@individual.net>  9 In article <B-WdnfFJ7e2NG-_ZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >> Michael D. Ober wrote:  >>>   J >>> The problem is a comparison >= 0 is returning "false" when the GFloat 
 >>> shouldM >>> be exactly 0.  I have manually done the calculations and am versed in the K >>> issues surrounding the use of floating point numbers, rounding errors,   >>> and M >>> comparisons.  Unfortunately I inherited this code and it's in a financial > >>> payment module.  I am obviously wary of breaking the code. >  > <snip> > J > I just knew that the recriminations about using floating point would be G > fired out rather quickly, and John and Tom didn't disappoint me.  :-)  > I > They do have a point, and as compiler writers understand it as well as  H > anyone.  Floating point numbers, as implemented on computers, are not H > precise, they approach a value, sort of like calculus.  Regardless, a < > programmer who knows what he's using can make things work. >   D Many years ago when I was doing system software support on a non-DecC system :-) we had a Fortran programmer that came to us with "A bug" J he had found in the compiler.  Seems he had this code soemthing like this:             JVAL = JVAL1 * JVAL2            IF (JVAL .EQ. 27.0125)  G which, always returned FALSE.  He could not be convinced that there was G no way this comparison could ever return TRUE due to the nature of real I numbers.  So, the vendor finally agreed to "fix" the compiler.  From that G point on any time it encountered 2 reals being compared for equality it I returned a Warning stating that this could not be done and would probably " not have the expected result.  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:10:50 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000Q Message-ID: <OF207DEA94.83F8ACB8-ON85257177.004805BC-85257177.00485FC9@metso.com>   F "Michael D. Ober" <"obermd."@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote on 05/23/2006 08:52:26 AM:   > H > Like I said, I inherited this code.  Also, I found the problem.  I wasK > actually getting at true "0" back - thanks to the suggestion of putting a I > debug statement in.  It turns out the failing conditional I was looking  for J > was a few lines further down the code and it was a simple ">" instead of a J > ">=".  The code is also rather speghetti like because of all the special > cases in it.  I Whew!  I like this much better than any negative zero scenario; we should  haveJ left those behind by now, and it appears we have.  Isn't it amazing what aJ well-placed debug statement will do.  Solving the actual problem is always best.    > J > As for using GFloat for currency, my preference would be to use Decimal, but I > when this code was originally written, Decimal wasn't an option.  Also,  whenF > you're doing interest computations, you need a floating point or the results I > are inaccurate.  Take a look at your credit card statements - the daily D > interest rate is always shown as an extended decimal for that very reason.  >  > Mike.  >  > 0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message% > news:op.s9yvo8lkzgicya@hyrrokkin... H > > On Mon, 22 May 2006 11:31:48 -0700, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> > wrote: > > J > > > Please don't tell me that the code uses G_float to track currency!!! > > > Yikes! > > > 8 > > My thought too. Maybe they keep the rounding errors. > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 07:00:36 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000) Message-ID: <op.s90bvavzzgicya@hyrrokkin>   H On Tue, 23 May 2006 06:07:00 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>   wrote:  ; > In article <B-WdnfFJ7e2NG-_ZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@libcom.com>, , > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>> Michael D. Ober wrote: >>>>J >>>> The problem is a comparison >= 0 is returning "false" when the GFloat >>>> should L >>>> be exactly 0.  I have manually done the calculations and am versed in   >>>> theK >>>> issues surrounding the use of floating point numbers, rounding errors,  >>>> andF >>>> comparisons.  Unfortunately I inherited this code and it's in a   >>>> financial? >>>> payment module.  I am obviously wary of breaking the code.  >>	 >> <snip>  >>J >> I just knew that the recriminations about using floating point would beH >> fired out rather quickly, and John and Tom didn't disappoint me.  :-) >>I >> They do have a point, and as compiler writers understand it as well as H >> anyone.  Floating point numbers, as implemented on computers, are notH >> precise, they approach a value, sort of like calculus.  Regardless, a= >> programmer who knows what he's using can make things work.  >> > F > Many years ago when I was doing system software support on a non-DecE > system :-) we had a Fortran programmer that came to us with "A bug" H > he had found in the compiler.  Seems he had this code soemthing like   > this:  >   >           JVAL = JVAL1 * JVAL2" >           IF (JVAL .EQ. 27.0125) > I > which, always returned FALSE.  He could not be convinced that there was I > no way this comparison could ever return TRUE due to the nature of real K > numbers.  So, the vendor finally agreed to "fix" the compiler.  From that I > point on any time it encountered 2 reals being compared for equality it K > returned a Warning stating that this could not be done and would probably $ > not have the expected result.  :-) >  > bill > F In the autumn I will be celebrating the 40th anniversary of my first  
 program:-)I It was in Fortran-IV on a 6600.  It included, AIR, a test of floats which A included epsilon, in manner David described.  This was de rigeur.  Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 07:18:42 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000) Message-ID: <op.s90cpglkzgicya@hyrrokkin>   5 On Tue, 23 May 2006 05:52:26 -0700, Michael D. Ober   % <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote:   L > As for using GFloat for currency, my preference would be to use Decimal,   > but K > when this code was originally written, Decimal wasn't an option.  Also,    > whenH > you're doing interest computations, you need a floating point or the  	 > results I > are inaccurate.  Take a look at your credit card statements - the daily F > interest rate is always shown as an extended decimal for that very  	 > reason. K Your credit card statement are done by First Data on an IBM mainframe and    the B code is PL/I, which supports scaled fixed decimal.  No float used.G As an aside, First Data is the only company in the US to have its own    private / zip code, owing to the ~ 10**8 montly mailings.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 04:13:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: MOSAIC / MOTIF bug (long pull down menus), Message-ID: <4472C409.F52897EB@teksavvy.com>   If you go to :. HTTP://www.canadianisp.com/cgi-bin/isprate.cgiF and then open the "Select the ISP you wish to rate" pulldown menu, theB pulldown menu expands to fill the screen, but this isn't enough toF display all options and there is no real way to scroll to the right to access te full list.    C You can blindly use the arrow kesy to navigate past the display and O select options that are not visible, but that isn't exactly very user-friendly.   C Most other HUIs handle large pulldown lists gracefully. But the VMS H version of Motif doesn't.  Do modern versions of Motif handle large pull donw lists more gracefully ?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 03:08:17 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>6 Subject: Re: MOSAIC / MOTIF bug (long pull down menus)C Message-ID: <1148378897.106056.195000@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G HP's SWB V1.7-11 handels this very well on V8.2/Motif 1.5 as well as on  F8.3/Motif M1.6.  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 01:59:59 -0700- From: "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> B Subject: Re: Pathworks question (I Know but that group is dormant)B Message-ID: <1148374799.288724.17900@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Hal Kuff wrote:  > When trying this command > - > TESSCO\\KELVIN> show computers/domain=magic  > C > %PWRK-E-ERRGETSRV, error getting server information for "GLC-DC1"  > H > -LM-E-ERROR_ACCESS_DE, insufficient privileges for attempted operation >  > TESSCO\\KELVIN> Exit >  >  > ) > Where this command yiedls these results  >  > TESSCO\\KELVIN> show trust > # > Domains trusted by domain TESSCO:  >  > MAGIC  > + > Domains permitted to trust domain TESSCO:  >  > MAGIC  >   ? > ---Has anyone seen this or have a fix for this under V6D ....   / Looks like your SAM database maybe broken try:-   . $ @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]PWRK$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM $ pwstop $ samcheck -SV   Let me know how you get on   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2006 01:59:05 -0700- From: "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> B Subject: Re: Pathworks question (I Know but that group is dormant)B Message-ID: <1148374745.250861.43950@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Hal Kuff wrote:  > When trying this command > - > TESSCO\\KELVIN> show computers/domain=magic  > C > %PWRK-E-ERRGETSRV, error getting server information for "GLC-DC1"  > H > -LM-E-ERROR_ACCESS_DE, insufficient privileges for attempted operation >  > TESSCO\\KELVIN> Exit >  >  > ) > Where this command yiedls these results  >  > TESSCO\\KELVIN> show trust > # > Domains trusted by domain TESSCO:  >  > MAGIC  > + > Domains permitted to trust domain TESSCO:  >  > MAGIC  >   ? > ---Has anyone seen this or have a fix for this under V6D ....   / Looks like your SAM database maybe broken try:-   . $ @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]PWRK$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM $ pwstop $ samcheck -SV   Let me know how you get on   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:31:11 GMT & From: "PEN" <paul.nunez.nosp@m.hp.com>B Subject: Re: Pathworks question (I Know but that group is dormant)0 Message-ID: <P0Fcg.932$0J6.618@news.cpqcorp.net>   Hi Hal,   . "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com> wrote in message * news:127497a9iumvc69@corp.supernews.com... > When trying this command > - > TESSCO\\KELVIN> show computers/domain=magic  > C > %PWRK-E-ERRGETSRV, error getting server information for "GLC-DC1"  > H > -LM-E-ERROR_ACCESS_DE, insufficient privileges for attempted operation >  [snip]  M Did you log on to either domain before executing the command?   If you logon  H to the magic domain ( $ ADMIN LOGON /DOMAIN=MAGIC) does it then succeed?   Did this work in the past?  3 What O/S is running on the PDC of the magic domain?    Paul     ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2006 23:09:05 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de> Subject: Re: SHOW$DEBUG C Message-ID: <1148364545.115667.318070@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>   : A 'Ass 1 show$debug_lckbuf' reveals even more information.  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2006 22:49:02 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de> Subject: Re: SHOW$DEBUG C Message-ID: <1148363341.899790.292420@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ! As you can see, this is VERY old:   & $ write sys$output f$getsyi("version") V5.5-2 $ ass 1 show$debug/nolog $ sho dev sys$sysdevice   , Locks queued to device lock "SYS$_$1$DIA1:":  E    - Lock 710009B4,  length of items 00180018,  $enq status 00000001, / value block 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ?    -   LOCKID     PID      SYSID   (node)     REMLKID  REMSYSID    RQMODE  GRMODE   STATEB    -  710009B4  000396BA  00000000 ()        710009B4  00000000 ()/     00      00     01     [ NL / NL / GRANTED ]   E Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans Mnt F  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count Cnt F $1$DIA1:       (DSSI1)  Mounted              0  SYSTEMPLATTE    343825  266   1  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:15:41 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: SHOW$DEBUG $ Message-ID: <e4vcfd$did$1@online.de>  C In article <1148364545.115667.318070@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, / "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de> writes:    < > A 'Ass 1 show$debug_lckbuf' reveals even more information.  ) For me it doesn't have any effect at all.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.285 ************************