1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 30 May 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 299       Contents: Re: 2 Nameservers on 1 node  Re: 2 Nameservers on 1 node  Re: A sorry saga Re: A sorry saga Re: A sorry saga Re: A sorry saga Re: A sorry saga Re: A sorry saga2 Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit" Re: Carly Fiorina bio at wikipedia$ Re: Compaq board member sent to jail Re: DCL: IF   and .AND.  logic Re: DCL: IF   and .AND.  logic Re: DCL: IF   and .AND.  logic) DIBOL proves itself at OpenVMS boot camp! - Re: DIBOL proves itself at OpenVMS boot camp! - Re: DIBOL proves itself at OpenVMS boot camp! " Re: Fixing a Corrupt PCSI Database/ Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000  GnuPG 1.4.3 ) Re: How to do automated email proccessing P Re: OT: Woodcrest (X86-64) will ouperform all other cpus on the market says Inqu. Re: So how representative is this experience ?0 Re: speeding up LAVC with switch instead of hub? SSH  public key not working  SSH  public key not working D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D RE: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)D Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users)' Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 02:59:35 -0700 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>$ Subject: Re: 2 Nameservers on 1 node: Message-ID: <X42dnR5RGIf6iuHZnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@comcast.com>   Tom LINDEN wrote:    (snip)  G > Let me start by saying this is not an area in which I have a lot of   
 > experience, & > but why do you need two DNS servers?  ? When running a private internal net (intranet) it is convenient = to be able to use the same names as seen from outside, though D the IP addresses are different.   Also, you don't want all the names2 for internal hosts to be visible from the outside.  A Another solution sometimes used is to use a different domain from > the outside, a little more confusing.   If NAT will allow portH forwarding to a different port it is easy, but many NAT implementations  now don't do that.  F The OP mentioned using a secondary IP address, which should also work.A Normally BIND will bind to all interfaces, but it is possible to  A configure each to bind to one (logical) interface.  It might even ? be that one bind process can run different zones out different  7 interfaces, though I don't believe BIND4 could do that.    -- glen    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 05:31:35 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)$ Subject: Re: 2 Nameservers on 1 node2 Message-ID: <06053005313535_2020743C@antinode.org>  0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>  A > When running a private internal net (intranet) it is convenient ? > to be able to use the same names as seen from outside, though F > the IP addresses are different.   Also, you don't want all the names4 > for internal hosts to be visible from the outside.  B    On my network (one static IP address, one name server), the DSLE modem/router (Cisco 678) does the NAT/PAT stuff to direct traffic for E the popular ports to my primary (VMS) Alpha ("alp").  All the systems C have (internal) 10.0.0.x addresses, so I don't really care what the H outside world learns about them, as they're generally not reachable from the outside world.  B    The name server for antinode.org ("alp" again) is configured toB resolve "alp" to the external address, and "alp-l" to the internalF address, so I can get to it by the "alp-l" name from inside.  And if ID use the external name from inside (to one of the NAT/PAT ports), theF router directs the traffic to the internal address, so what do I care?  F    Plus, on ALP itself, the local hosts data base has an entry for ALPF with the local address, so "telnet alp" from alp goes to 10.0.0.9, not 209.98.249.184.   H    Maybe I missed something in the original posting, but I don't see the problem.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 12:29:11 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: Re: A sorry saga 4 Message-ID: <e5haa7$mte$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Tim Jackson wrote:N > Can't comment on number 1, but when our RA3000 systems were first installed N > we also suffered following power outages to the RA3000s.  The only solution H > we found was to reinitialise the disks using the StorageWorks Command ? > Console and then restore the contents from backups.  Sorry :)   E As our system disk was on there too, we struggled to get the console  F working (couldn't find the right serial cable, or something). We were F down for half of last week - we suffered busy loops, disk corruption, C file corruption, and eventually cobbled together enough disk space  5 inside the ds20 cab, and restored without the ra3000. J We're now working again, and our hardware folks are working on the ra3000.   Thanks Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 04:51:14 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: A sorry saga C Message-ID: <1148989874.151613.179930@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E FWIW, SWCC was always a pain.  Not sure if it's something you have to < use with the RA3000 but if you can manage without it, do so!   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 06:40:17 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: A sorry saga B Message-ID: <1148996417.659893.50270@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  C Sounds like you still have a hard loop of sorts in an indexed file,   despitte you rebuilding efforts.  + May we assume you have the XFC cache going? - My first tool would be SHOW MEMOR/FULL/CACHE. # Have the XFC tell you the hotfiles.   E Combine that with ANAL/SYS ... RMS LOAD.. RMS START TRACE/BUF=5000...  RMS SHOW TRACE/SUM  
 Good luck, Hein.  HvdH Performance Consulting ! heinvandenheuvel_at_gmail_d0t_com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 06:59:08 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: A sorry saga C Message-ID: <1148997548.707882.141820@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>   F Use the following command to let XFC help you find the 3 busiest files on each of your disks:  ! $ sho mem/cache=(topqio=3,volu=*)   E This should point you to the problematic file. Then look at that file < (and application log file ?) to find out, what may be wrong.  F Unfortunatley, there is no RMS$SDA extension in OpenVMS V7.3-1, so the/ SDA> RMS commands suggested by Hein won't work.    Volker.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:58:38 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: Re: A sorry saga 4 Message-ID: <e5hmiu$nhq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:E > Sounds like you still have a hard loop of sorts in an indexed file, " > despitte you rebuilding efforts. > - > May we assume you have the XFC cache going? / > My first tool would be SHOW MEMOR/FULL/CACHE.   9 Just seems to give a summary of cache performance (7.3-1)   G But I think the problems are hardware/ra3000 config related, following  E its being unplugged, as Tim Jackson suggested: that's presumably why  E when we bought it, it arrived with its very own UPS, which we hadn't   ordered or expected.  I If I did have a hard loop in one or more indexed files, I think that's a  F symptom of my problem (misbehaving raid array), rather than the cause.  G Now the data's restored, and the ra3000 is out of service, no problems.  Problem history:= our ra3000 has worked, pretty much untouched, for some years. 6 Its red battery warning light has been on for a while.C I asked our internal maintenance people to see about replacing the  = battery - they then pulled the unit out to get part numbers,  F accidentally pulling the 4 ra3000 power cables out of the back in the H middle of the working day. They plugged them back in (after a minute or I so's fiddling at the back of the desk), and I was astonished to see that  < our Alpha vms cluster survived with no apparent ill effects.C Within hours, however, we were seeing disk and file corruption - I  E cleaned up as best I could with dfu etc, but then saw new corruption  D occurring on previously clean disks - suggesting an ongoing problem 7 rather than one-off corruption when the power had gone. E Eventually this became severe enough that the Alphas would no longer  3 boot, and I couldn't access newsgroups or anything. C We tried replacing the ds20e, and then the ra3000, without success. A We then scrounged some disks & cradles for inside the ds20e, and  E restored to that, without the ra3000 - to get a working system again. A [When we'd replaced the ra3000, I think we'd introduced a config  L mismatch between the controller and the disks, which took it out of service.H We couldn't get it back online - lack of the right serial cable, or the I knowhow, or both. Our external maintainer now has it up and running, and   under uetp test.]   C When the ra3000 goes back in, it will be restored from the interim  D internal disks, anyway - and I'm going to replace that damn battery.   Thanks to all! Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:18:25 +0100 0 From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@baesystems.com> Subject: Re: A sorry saga 1 Message-ID: <447c6dae$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>   > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message . news:e5hmiu$nhq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...  > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:F >> Sounds like you still have a hard loop of sorts in an indexed file,# >> despitte you rebuilding efforts.  >>. >> May we assume you have the XFC cache going?0 >> My first tool would be SHOW MEMOR/FULL/CACHE. > ; > Just seems to give a summary of cache performance (7.3-1)  > M > But I think the problems are hardware/ra3000 config related, following its  K > being unplugged, as Tim Jackson suggested: that's presumably why when we  J > bought it, it arrived with its very own UPS, which we hadn't ordered or  > expected.  > K > If I did have a hard loop in one or more indexed files, I think that's a  H > symptom of my problem (misbehaving raid array), rather than the cause. > I > Now the data's restored, and the ra3000 is out of service, no problems.  > Problem history:? > our ra3000 has worked, pretty much untouched, for some years. 8 > Its red battery warning light has been on for a while.E > I asked our internal maintenance people to see about replacing the  L > battery - they then pulled the unit out to get part numbers, accidentally I > pulling the 4 ra3000 power cables out of the back in the middle of the  M > working day. They plugged them back in (after a minute or so's fiddling at  H > the back of the desk), and I was astonished to see that our Alpha vms 0 > cluster survived with no apparent ill effects.M > Within hours, however, we were seeing disk and file corruption - I cleaned  L > up as best I could with dfu etc, but then saw new corruption occurring on M > previously clean disks - suggesting an ongoing problem rather than one-off  % > corruption when the power had gone. M > Eventually this became severe enough that the Alphas would no longer boot,  / > and I couldn't access newsgroups or anything. E > We tried replacing the ds20e, and then the ra3000, without success. L > We then scrounged some disks & cradles for inside the ds20e, and restored > > to that, without the ra3000 - to get a working system again.L > [When we'd replaced the ra3000, I think we'd introduced a config mismatch E > between the controller and the disks, which took it out of service. J > We couldn't get it back online - lack of the right serial cable, or the K > knowhow, or both. Our external maintainer now has it up and running, and   > under uetp test.]  > E > When the ra3000 goes back in, it will be restored from the interim  F > internal disks, anyway - and I'm going to replace that damn battery. >  > Thanks to all! > Chris    Chris,  K Your problems sound so familiar to me!  The only difference being that our  F power problems were caused not by unplugging the power cables, but by M accidental pushing of the RA3000 power button (near top right of the unit on  K the front) by a misaligned front door panel edge just catching the button.  I Took ages to find this.  Correction was by snipping some of the (excess)   plastic away from the door! :)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:12:10 GMT 0 From: "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com>; Subject: Re: Availability Manager V2.5-B Data Collector kit 1 Message-ID: <K1%eg.1224$wa4.272@news.cpqcorp.net>    All,  L     An update to the problem that Jeff found where the number of events was 9 different between DECamds V7.3-2 GUI and DECamds V7.3-2B. J     At the OpenVMS Bootcamp, Jeff and I got to spend some time looking at J his system and configuration.  Basically what happened is that in DECamds L V7.3-2A, a bug was fixed where on newer Alpha machines, the threshold class I for the low end VAXen was used.  I fixed this to use the Alpha threshold  4 class.  This is the difference that Jeff was seeing.   Barry    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 08:06:28 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> + Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina bio at wikipedia = Message-ID: <447be0b3$0$67264$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: G > In article <44773750$0$60782$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten ( > Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  >  > K >>That is not true in Denmark where I live.  They might try using wireless  J >>in remote areas in Norway and Sweden, but in the rest of Scandinavia it  >>will be some sort of cable.  >  > K > Being quite familiar with the geography of Scandinavia, I appreciate the  A > modesty of the concept "not Norway and Sweden, but the REST of  K > Scandinavia".  )[:-}  (Note that the smiley sports the obligatory horned   > helmet and full beard.)  > H Yes, in terms of area most of Scandinavia is mountains, but most people E do not live in these mountains or they live in cities where there is  E already twisted pair cabling.  Just like most of Canada's population   live along the border to USA.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 06:11:20 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk- Subject: Re: Compaq board member sent to jail B Message-ID: <1148994680.648009.183330@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  D So, if I weren't a god-fearing christian, one could suggest tht he's, both a crook (allegedly) and a bible basher.  " Not that I'd suggest such a thing.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:42:13 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: DCL: IF   and .AND.  logic 3 Message-ID: <W5IZIAsJG9Mg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <447817C9.26648DB3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G > Is it correct to state that the IF THEN/ELSE code only checks for the I > low order bit of the logical value in order to determine if a condition I > is true or false ?  Is this actually documented somehwere, or just some  > implementation quirk ?  G    Yes and yes.  Check the DCL manual.  For numerical values DCL checks B    the least significant bit for strings, it only checks the first
    letter.  H > I was under the impression that it would check for a non-zero value ofG > the whole longword instead of a specific bit within it. (which is the C > case for many high level languages which test for 0 or non-zero).   J    C and C derived languages check for 0 because the C standard says so.  H    Most languages do not specify how true/false have to be implemented,     only how they behave.  I > If it is truly documented that it only checksz the first bit, I take it ' > it was to allow to do something like:  > - > $IF $STATUS THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SUCCESS"  > # > Is such a construct widely used ?   D    Yes.  Very much so.  It works on DCL, Fortran, BLISS, ..., almost     every non-C derived language.  B    "First bit" is a poor choice of words, it depends on serial bitC    transmission order.  Least significant bit is a clear way to say     what you mean.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:44:51 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: DCL: IF   and .AND.  logic 3 Message-ID: <jiWPM0imo6RH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <4e0vihF1crbcrU1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes: >  > I'd prefer a construct like: >  > $ status   = $STATUS > $ severity = status .AND. 7 0 > $ IF severity .EQ. 0 THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ... > $ IF severity .EQ. 1 THEN ...  > $ ...   D    I wouldn't.  It leaves the maintainer wondering where the magic 7G    and 1 come from.  It involves uncessary operations.  It promotes the F    misconception that an IF condition must contain a logical operator.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:47:20 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>' Subject: Re: DCL: IF   and .AND.  logic 1 Message-ID: <sG_eg.1223$q84.145@news.cpqcorp.net>    Michael Unger wrote:( > On 2006-05-27 11:12, "JF Mezei" wrote: >  >> [...] >>J >> If it is truly documented that it only checksz the first bit, I take it( >> it was to allow to do something like: >>. >> $IF $STATUS THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SUCCESS" >>$ >> Is such a construct widely used ?      Since its inception.   
    Do try:  -     SEARCH SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...]*.COM "IF $ST"       or equivalent.   A    Obviously, this command will find only a subset of the usages.   7    Then you should be able to answer your own question.      > I'd prefer a construct like: >  > $ status   = $STATUS > $ severity = status .AND. 7 0 > $ IF severity .EQ. 0 THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ... > $ IF severity .EQ. 1 THEN ...  > $ ...   H    Run-time computed goto operations -- one of the reasons why it would D be comparatively "fun" to write a compiler for DCL -- are available:      $ GOTO LABEL_'severity'  H    Much of DCL's design dates back to the late 1970s, obviously, and to I how programmers used contemporary languages and constructs.  And no, I'm  6 not aware of any DCL++ or OODCL project underway.  :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 06:11:54 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com 2 Subject: DIBOL proves itself at OpenVMS boot camp!C Message-ID: <1148994714.220649.320390@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/05/29/6879932    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 07:09:22 -0700 # From: "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: Re: DIBOL proves itself at OpenVMS boot camp!) Message-ID: <op.tadaxwzglvpiaf@hyrrokkin>   @ On Tue, 30 May 2006 06:11:54 -0700, <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:  - Who wrote it, Ken?  No authorship attributed.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2006 14:21:02 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: DIBOL proves itself at OpenVMS boot camp!, Message-ID: <4e32meF1cfn5aU1@individual.net>  ) In article <op.tadaxwzglvpiaf@hyrrokkin>, & 	"Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> writes:B > On Tue, 30 May 2006 06:11:54 -0700, <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: > / > Who wrote it, Ken?  No authorship attributed.   D Yeah, the part I liked was: "Moving millions of gallons of petroleumD through thousands of miles of pipe safely and cost effectively is noC small feat."  We have a whole bunch of people here with permanently / polluted wells who might argue the safely part.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:19:02 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Fixing a Corrupt PCSI Database 1 Message-ID: <Wf_eg.1218$Q94.450@news.cpqcorp.net>    Steve Matzura wrote:. > On Sat, 20 May 2006 17:42:58 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > I >> If the database is OK, but warns of a missing product specific file, I H >> would fetch the product's original .PCSI file , extract all the files@ >>from it in a temporary directory and find the product specificI >> .pcsi<mumble>  and put them where they belong.  This way, you are sure , >> that nothing will mess with your system.  > G > I believe that's what they're going to wind up doing. I'm not at that F > shop any more so cannot say how things are.  It was just told to me,G > knowing that I tap into a lot of knowledgeable folks, and that sounds 5 > like the right thing to do anyway, given the error.   G    I believe that approach will risk further corruptions -- making the  I existing problem worse.  Manually moving files is trivial in theory, and  D risky in practice -- it's just too easy to copy a file to the wrong D spot, or to the wrong name.  There are folks that can perform these E commands and these copies flawlessly, of course, and there are folks  H that cannot.  (I know how to read PCSI kit definition files, and how to H decode multi-architecture PCSI kits and such, and I don't know that I'd  try this manual approach.)  I    The sequence of re-registrations I referenced is the typical recovery  D sequence recommended by the OpenVMS Engineering engineers that work * directly with PCSI, and that support PCSI.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 07:03:32 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>8 Subject: Re: GFloat Rounding issue in DEC Basic V1.2-000- Message-ID: <DmXeg.2$ts4.335@news.uswest.net>      ( I didn't even know APL was still around.   Mike.   5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message & news:4dosu1F1bcom8U1@individual.net...G > PL/I has it's place, but IMHO the financial world ain't it.  The only G > thing I can think of worse is the local company that sells a business G > package they wrote.......     In APL.  Well, at least they don't have % > to worry about someone stealing it.  >  > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:42:36 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: GnuPG 1.4.38 Message-ID: <popo72tkpj98cu66u9oq0krtordqodu300@4ax.com>   Hi,   : Does anyone know if GnuPG v1.4.3 has been ported to VMS?  C I can't find it anywhere on the net and the version hosted by HP is  v1.2.3     Dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:36:33 -0400 & From: Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com>2 Subject: Re: How to do automated email proccessingD Message-ID: <b601e$447c5872$4367aba2$8928@msgid.meganewsservers.com>  H Thanks everyone.  Your suggestions and info were very helpful.  We will E probably just use DCL and poll every 5 minutes or so (if the project  A goes forward).  The people I am working with were pleased by the  I simplicity that the DCL mail/extract suggestion could be done.  If we do  I not use it here, we will almost certainly use it on any upcoming project.   
 Thanks again!    --     Thomas Wirt  Operations Manager, IS Dept. Kittle's Home Furnishings  Indianapolis, IN   Thomas Wirt wrote:  F > I am looking to take form emails that were sent from a web page and K > process them automatically with a program as they come in.  Ultimately I  I > want to use our home grown applications to process the data from these  K > email forms, to populate fields in our database.  We have never done any  / > automated processing of inbound email before.  > H > I seem to remember something in COV about a utility to read these and F > get them into a text form that is easier to work with.  I know that K > there is a mail API, but I am hoping for a simple way to process inbound  H > email in real or near real time without learning any new and possibly I > complicated API.  I have seen the MBU freeware, but I am not sure from  - > the very brief readme if it is what I need.  > K > I am very interested in how other VMS users are automatically processing  J > inbound email.  I know that there are other ways to get data from a web J > form, but for this project, it would be a big win for VMS if I can find I > a simple, free solution that allows us to take a form email and get it  ; > to a VMS .com or Basic program ready data format quickly.  >  > TIA      --     Thomas Wirt  Operations Manager, IS Dept. Kittle's Home Furnishings  Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:46:38 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: OT: Woodcrest (X86-64) will ouperform all other cpus on the market says Inqu 3 Message-ID: <ENxD4+DbZ3PR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   O In article <op.s97radj9lvpiaf@hyrrokkin>, "Tom LINDEN" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  > E > I find it interesting that VAX 5.5-2 and 6.2 have PVS sustaining  =  > 
 > engineering K > thru 2011.  From which one must conclude that there are still a number o=  > f  = >  > VAXen ? > that never went to Alpha.  Question is, will they go to IA64?   D    Not unless IA-64 provides plug compatable replacements for DRQ3B,     DRV-11WA, DR11-B, and Ada 89.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 14:51:19 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>7 Subject: Re: So how representative is this experience ? 1 Message-ID: <HZYeg.1212$Q54.502@news.cpqcorp.net>   
 mas wrote:I > http://www.aceshardware.com/forums/read_post.jsp?id=115165893&forumid=1  >  > " G > Well I can tell you of one company I know off who have decided NOT to F > go with Itanuim. It is a company that I used to work for (its in theE > FTSE 100) who currently has thousands of Alphas (some the new, some D > old), and a few old VAX system worldwide that need to be upgraded. > I > The software was ported from VAX/VMS to Alpha/VMS in the 90's, this was @ > typically done very poorly, but it worked and gave significant > performance increases. > E > After spending a few months in attempts to port to Itanium/VMS they F > decided that the problems were far to great. The problems being thatG > the performance was lower (significantly) than the system they needed D > to replace (ie: lastest Alphs ES40, ES45, and a few ES47), and the7 > problems caused by compilers optimisations were vast.  >   E As a compiler person, while there have indeed been a few bugs in the  H first releases of the compilers for OpenVMS I64, the compilers are more E stable than they were at first from VAX to Alpha.  We've had no real  : major "oversights" that would have caused "vast problems".  D As for performance differences, most tend to be caused by alignment F faults.  Alpha fixed these up quickly in PAL code.  On I64, a few are J fixed in hardware, but most trap to the OS.  The overhead is much greater.  I As a general rule, most alignment fauts are due to people assigning into  E pointers using typecasts.  The compiler assumes that a "pointer to a  E struct" points to an aligned instance of the struct.  After all, you  A used malloc() to allocate it right? :-)  When you shove a random  G byte-aligned address into the pointer, subsequent memory accesses will  D use instructions that will get alignment faults.  The fix to either G align the data or use the correct pragma to tell the compiler that the  F pointer can point to unaligned data will usually fix the problem with 2 almost no effort.  It helps back on Alpha as well.  G Code that uses /NOMEMBER_ALIGNMENT (or whatever the language syntax is  G for your language), tends not to be the cause of alignment faults.  In  F this situation, the compiler already knows that some "int" field in a G struct is on byte 13 for instance.  We don't generate a 'ld4' or 'st4'  I instruction to access the field.  We already know to generate byte sized  D instructions and shift/mask the results into the integer value.  It B would get somewhat faster if the data was aligned (one 'ld4' vs a C 'ld1/ld2/ld1 seqeunce with some shifts and ORs'), but we don't get  ; penalized with the huge OS overhead of the alignment fault.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:12:14 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>9 Subject: Re: speeding up LAVC with switch instead of hub? 1 Message-ID: <y9_eg.1216$l94.963@news.cpqcorp.net>    Rob Brooks wrote: $ > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes: > H >> Make sure that the SRM console setting for the NIC have been changed.D >>  It's probably a DEC DE500 family card and they are notorious forD >> having problems doing an auto-negotiate.  Some switches they will6 >> auto-negotiate fine with and others they will not.     ...Q > The above info is not quite right.  The DE500-BA and -AA should have no problem 5 > autonegotiating with a correctly-behaving switch...   G    Details on the four DE500 variants and on auto-negotiate are in the  0 OpenVMS FAQ: <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq/>      --   H    I still believe that the base limit here is that the VAX systems are F correspondingly slow by any current standards (well, by any standards H other than the "free hardware" standard, and even that one is certainly E debatable :-), and this hardware configuration is attempting to slam  H large volumes of data (shadow disk copies, et al) over a very slow IEEE B 802.3 (AKA Ethernet; 1MB, 10Mb) network link -- and you won't get D anywhere near all of the 802.3 link, for that matter.   The fastest A network switch in existence just won't make typical VAX hardware  ! configuration operate any faster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 14:41:03 +0300 - From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> $ Subject: SSH  public key not working8 Message-ID: <jbWeg.4235$y34.312@reader1.news.jippii.net>  H I have problem to connect from OpenVMS 7.3-2/TCPIP 5.4 to Red Hat ES 4.0L (Itanium) using publickey authentication. Password works ok. I've copied the key to the Red Hat host.  ? debug: SshReadLine/SSHREADLINE.C:3651: Initializing ReadLine...   - debug: Remote version: SSH-1.99-OpenSSH_3.9p1   - debug: OpenSSH: Major: 3 Minor: 9 Revision: 0   H debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C:1717: All versions of OpenSSH handle kex guesses    incorrectly.  F debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C:2157: lang s to c: `', lang c to s: `'  D debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C:2222: c_to_s: cipher aes128-cbc, mac
 hmac-sha1,   compression none  D debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C:2225: s_to_c: cipher aes128-cbc, mac
 hmac-sha1,   compression none  + debug: Remote host key found from database.   I debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C:346: Received SSH_CROSS_STARTUP packet from  connec   tion protocol.  L debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C:396: Received SSH_CROSS_ALGORITHMS packet from con    nection protocol.   G debug: server offers auth methods 'publickey,gssapi-with-mic,password'.   B debug: Ssh2AuthClient/SSHAUTHC.C:373: Method 'publickey' disabled.  G debug: server offers auth methods 'publickey,gssapi-with-mic,password'.   I root's password: sswdClient/AUTHC-PASSWD.C:249: Starting password query..   G Any ideas what might be wrong ? I've read SSH manuals but haven't found 
 anything yet.    -Kari-   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:42:34 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)$ Subject: SSH  public key not working2 Message-ID: <06053011423451_2020743C@antinode.org>  - From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi>   J > I have problem to connect from OpenVMS 7.3-2/TCPIP 5.4 to Red Hat ES 4.0N > (Itanium) using publickey authentication. Password works ok. I've copied the > key to the Red Hat host.  C    If you generate any keys on the GNU/Linux system, I believe that B you'll find that they have a format different from the one used byH TCPIP's SSH(2).  It's possible to do some manual editing to convert fromD one form to the other, but if you check "man ssh-keygen", it may say? something about "ssh-keygen -X", which should do the conversion  automatically.  E    I don't run any GNU/Linux here, but I do have this working to/from / Solaris (SunOS 5.10) and Tru64 (V5.5B) systems.    sol> man ssh-keygen  [...] A      -X                      Obsolete. Replaced by the -i option.  [...] A      -i                      This  option  reads  an  unencrypted A                              private  (or  public)  key  file  in A                              SSH2-compatible format and prints an A                              OpenSSH  compatible private (or pub- A                              lic) key to stdout. ssh-keygen  also A                              reads  the  "SECSH"  Public Key File A                              Format.  This option allows  import- A                              ing  keys  from  several  other  SSH -                              implementations.  [...]         On Tru64:   ung% man ssh-keygen  [...] A      -X    Reads an unencrypted SSH2-compatible private (or  pub- A            lic) key file and prints an OpenSSH compatible private %            (or public) key to stdout.         So, you do something like:   4    ssh-keygen -X -f key_file_ssh2 > key_file_openssh<    ssh-keygen -X -f key_file_ssh2.pub > key_file_openssh.pub    chmod 600 key_file_openssh   F and then add the right stuff to ${HOME}/ssh/authorized_keys, and point2 your ${HOME}/ssh/identity file to the right stuff.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:17:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <gwAr2PplPqv9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <pKOdnQ2lpct45-rZRVn-tw@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > F > Ever see VMS grind to a halt when some asshole puts thirty thousand  > files in a directory?   2    No.  But I have seen one process take that hit.  4 >   Ever spend three or four days watching a DELETE - > *.*;* clean up those thirty thousand files?   C    A couple hours on an 11/785 under VMS 4.7.  Where did you find a     system slower than that?   G    Of course, DELETE *.*;* is well known not to be the best solution to H    that issue, but I just started a batch job and let it have the hours.  F    OBTW the directory was on the system disk so if there were going toA    be any side affects on other processes I would have seen them.   F    Meanwhile the CPU was running just as fast as it would have if UNIX"    had been loaded on that system.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:20:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <NG2VRuoSPScg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <UbWdnVzg55lx4OrZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > G > Would you care to provide a few details?  Did these "hits" originate  J > externally or inside your firewall?  Were the vulnerabilities exploited G > in the O/S itself or in a Web server?  Were vulnerabilities actually  ; > exploited or did you simply detect unsuccessful attempts?   H    I'm not at liberty to reveal too many details.  I can say my original9    statement was accurate as was the citicism it implies.   I > The last time I had a PC directly connected to the internet, ZoneAlarm  I > detected about fifteen or twenty attempts per hour to connect to my IP  $ > address.  It's probably worse now.  (    Now there's a fate I would not tempt.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2006 13:33:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) , Message-ID: <4e2vtcF1cmogeU1@individual.net>  3 In article <6ui+tbxfwpVs@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <nospam.News.Bob-F397A0.20400626052006@news.verizon.net>, Bob Harris <nospam.News.Bob@remove.Smith-Harris.us> writes: >>  B >> And when it comes to doing OpenVMS I/O, there are not a lot of F >> people that do $QIO.  Most likely few even use $RMS.  Most use the C >> language I/O package which today is mostly C and the C Run-time  D >> library.  And that uses buffered RMS files which are also just a " >> promise, unless you do a flush. > G >    OK, if you write using the C RTL then you are using RMS and RMS is  >    using $QIO. > J >    Way back in the late 70's when we got our first VAXen Fortran allowedB >    us direct control over buffering.  The VMS C RTL and some DCL$ >    commands also give you control. >  >> Don't pick on UNIX I/O. >  >    Why not?    > D >    1) It is, after all limited to byte streams.  Ever try to port F >    a program which controls the density of a magtape between variousF >    UNIX?  What part of the byte stream is density?  Gee, its not, so5 >    you use an IOCTL interface which ports like mud.  > E >    2) Ever check the FAQ for how to overwrite a record:  you don't.  > L >    3) I know why folks buy Oracle for their UNIX systems.  Guess where my  >    money doesn't go. >   G And still there are more people getting the job done with Unix than VMS F every day and the ratio is growing wider with every hour.  Go figure!!   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2006 13:37:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) , Message-ID: <4e3049F1cmogeU2@individual.net>  3 In article <T5Qkt2Y1cGYo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <4dpq96F1936phU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  J >> That's a shell shortcoming and has little. if anything, to do with Unix5 >> or the file system.  And, it's easy to get around.  > J >    It has a lot to do with UNIX.  As in depending on the shell to expand> >    wildcards instead of providing an API to the application.  D Unix programmers are free to provide whatever API they wish to theirE applications.  It should say something that in the 30-some years Unix A has been around no one has ever found a need  or desire to do it.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:13:33 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <LCeOAAK02jMe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <VZ-dncv1BLIK3OrZRVn-iA@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > F > It's this kind of incompetent and arrogant ignorance that gives VMS F > bigots a bad name (and justifiably so).  The Unix fsync() operation F > performs essentially the same function that the RMS FLUSH operation I > does:  it forces all pending writes for the associated file to disk if   > they are not already there.   H    That's right.  So why did I intentionally ignore it?  Because one theE    UNIX I used required root to do fsynch().  This took me totally by "    surprise and I never forgot it.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:29:54 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <6ui+tbxfwpVs@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <nospam.News.Bob-F397A0.20400626052006@news.verizon.net>, Bob Harris <nospam.News.Bob@remove.Smith-Harris.us> writes: > A > And when it comes to doing OpenVMS I/O, there are not a lot of  E > people that do $QIO.  Most likely few even use $RMS.  Most use the  B > language I/O package which today is mostly C and the C Run-time C > library.  And that uses buffered RMS files which are also just a  ! > promise, unless you do a flush.   E    OK, if you write using the C RTL then you are using RMS and RMS is     using $QIO.  H    Way back in the late 70's when we got our first VAXen Fortran allowed@    us direct control over buffering.  The VMS C RTL and some DCL"    commands also give you control.   > Don't pick on UNIX I/O.   
    Why not?     B    1) It is, after all limited to byte streams.  Ever try to port D    a program which controls the density of a magtape between variousD    UNIX?  What part of the byte stream is density?  Gee, its not, so3    you use an IOCTL interface which ports like mud.   C    2) Ever check the FAQ for how to overwrite a record:  you don't.   J    3) I know why folks buy Oracle for their UNIX systems.  Guess where my     money doesn't go.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2006 08:31:26 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) 3 Message-ID: <T5Qkt2Y1cGYo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4dpq96F1936phU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > I > That's a shell shortcoming and has little. if anything, to do with Unix 4 > or the file system.  And, it's easy to get around.  H    It has a lot to do with UNIX.  As in depending on the shell to expand<    wildcards instead of providing an API to the application.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:28:08 -0400 @ From: "Koska, John C. \(LNG-ALB\)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>M Subject: RE: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) R Message-ID: <D8D507FABDE21843BD4BD5791ADCB12AAC8EAA@LNGALBEXCP01VA.legal.regn.net>   > -----Original Message-----G > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On  Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon % > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:34 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H > Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) > 5 > In article <6ui+tbxfwpVs@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:H > > In article <nospam.News.Bob-F397A0.20400626052006@news.verizon.net>,) Bob Harris <nospam.News.Bob@remove.Smith-  > Harris.us> writes: >>>=20B >>> And when it comes to doing OpenVMS I/O, there are not a lot of	 people=20 H >>> that do $QIO.  Most likely few even use $RMS.  Most use the language  H >>> I/O package which today is mostly C and the C Run-time library.  And  I >>> that uses buffered RMS files which are also just a promise, unless=20  >>> you do a flush.  >>=20 H >>    OK, if you write using the C RTL then you are using RMS and RMS is >>    using $QIO.  >>=20 C >>    Way back in the late 70's when we got our first VAXen Fortran  allowed C >>    us direct control over buffering.  The VMS C RTL and some DCL % >>    commands also give you control.  >>=20  >>> Don't pick on UNIX I/O.  >>=20  >>    Why not? =20 >>=20 G >>    1) It is, after all limited to byte streams.  Ever try to port=20 G >>    a program which controls the density of a magtape between various G >>    UNIX?  What part of the byte stream is density?  Gee, its not, so 6 >>    you use an IOCTL interface which ports like mud. >>=20 F >>    2) Ever check the FAQ for how to overwrite a record:  you don't. >>=20 C >>    3) I know why folks buy Oracle for their UNIX systems.  Guess  where my=20  >>    money doesn't go.  >>=20  > E > And still there are more people getting the job done with Unix than 4 VMS every day and the ratio is growing wider with=20 > every hour.  Go figure!! >  > bill >  > --=20 E > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |E > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20     A Yup, the total cost of ownership is far less with OpenVMS. <grin>   E At my site we definitely get the job done with a lot less folks, than E the Windows or UNIX sides of the house.  And we are doing more of the C overall processing work within the company than the other platforms 	 combined.    :) jck   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 12:58:13 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) : Message-ID: <69idnaotGN065OHZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  h > In article <pKOdnQ2lpct45-rZRVn-tw@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > F >>Ever see VMS grind to a halt when some asshole puts thirty thousand  >>files in a directory?  >  > 4 >    No.  But I have seen one process take that hit. >  > 4 >>  Ever spend three or four days watching a DELETE - >>*.*;* clean up those thirty thousand files?  >  > E >    A couple hours on an 11/785 under VMS 4.7.  Where did you find a  >    system slower than that?    <snip>  F It's been something like eight years now but It was a big VAX 6000 or C 7000 series.   The processor speed is not terribly important.  The  A problem was that VMS V6.2 did not handle directories larger than  H something like 100 blocks very well.  Unless you wrote something clever I to delete files in descending alphanumeric order, every time you emptied  D a directory block, every succeeding block got moved down!  It's the H incredible amount of disk I/O that takes the time!  We were still using D RA series disks and some RZ26 & RZ28 SCSI-2 disks and those weren't  blindingly fast.  F If I had it to do over again, I would copy everything else to another E disk and then INIT the original disk.  If I were going to write some  F software to clean up a mess like that, I would cache the whole damned G directory in memory, delete the files, compact the directory and write  ' it back to disk or something like that.   I Recent versions of VMS handle such situations a little better.  The real  G solution lies in the area of moron control.  The developer responsible  F for creating the files set something running and went on vacation for I three weeks.  I forget how the situation was brought to the attention of  I the systems group but it was probably the disk running out of space. . .   .    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:10:25 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> M Subject: Re: Unix runs faster, maybe (was: Re: Educating potential VMS users) : Message-ID: <X9SdnVEmT8Ac4eHZnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  r > In article <UbWdnVzg55lx4OrZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > G >>Would you care to provide a few details?  Did these "hits" originate  J >>externally or inside your firewall?  Were the vulnerabilities exploited G >>in the O/S itself or in a Web server?  Were vulnerabilities actually  ; >>exploited or did you simply detect unsuccessful attempts?  >  > J >    I'm not at liberty to reveal too many details.  I can say my original; >    statement was accurate as was the citicism it implies.  >  > I >>The last time I had a PC directly connected to the internet, ZoneAlarm  I >>detected about fifteen or twenty attempts per hour to connect to my IP  $ >>address.  It's probably worse now. >  > * >    Now there's a fate I would not tempt. >   I Nor would I without ZoneAlarm (a software firewall from Zone Labs).  The  F experience is one of the reasons why I'm behind a NAT Router/Firewall H and why ZoneAlarm Pro is installed on my desktop, laptop, and my wife's H PC.  The Router/Firewall is extremely effective in blocking attempts to C connect from outside.  ZoneAlarm keeps an eye on both incoming and  B outgoing connections; programs that I have not authorized are not D allowed to make outgoing connections or accept incoming connections.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:56:58 -0500 " From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com>0 Subject: Re: VMS, XDM, and remote connections...) Message-ID: <e5htgr$5f8$1@sxnews1.qg.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > "Schroeder, AJ" wrote:G >> After I copied those templates over, I went through TCPIP$CONFIG.COM @ >> and enabled and started the XDM server. It seemed to start upD >> alright then I went to a Sun machine. I can see my machine in theF >> remote server list, but it says "Willing to Manage" So then I triedC >> to connect to my VMS machine from the Sun machine and it doesn't  >> bring up the login window.  > C > The VMS XDM software doesn't support the more popular MIT_COOKIES  > authentication method. >   K Oh - that would make more sense. I have stripped off bascially any and all  L authorization and security from my VMS X server. Still no go on connections.  A > There is a file you can setup (I forget which) with specific IP C > addresses and the XDM server then bypasses the XDM authentication C > layers and presents the login screen whenever there is no session  > established. > F > Also, not sure if it was fixed, but the XDM login did not follow VMSB > security standards and one could try a gazillion billion millionH > password combinations without VMS knowing about it or anything logged. > H > If you look in the manual, you can set some logicals that will greatlyG > increase the logging of the XDM server and you shoudl then see if the E > remove XDM client (the X terminal) is using MIT_COOKIES. (or use an  > ethernet monitor)  >   G I will look again, but I didn't seem to find the logicals you speak of.    >  > 2 >> I also tried to bring up the clock by using SETF >> DISPLAY/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=helios and that worked! Not quite whatF >> I am looking for, but I am sure I am missing something very simple. >  > $set display/etc/exec  > $mc decw$startlogin  > H > this will give you a login screen, and because of the /exec in the SETG > DISPLAY, when you log out, the login process begins automatically. In G > fact, if you turn off the X terminal and turn it back on hours later, H > the login screen appears automatically. This login process follows VMS. > security and logs invalid password attempts.  K After thinking about this, I wonder if the problem now lies with the Sun X  K server. Especially since I removed all security from the VMS node. I think  B VMS is getting denied trying to open a session to the Sun machine.   Thanks for the help, JF.     ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.299 ************************