1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 05 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 546       Contents:# Re: All is not well at the HP board 2 Re: Alpha object file changes - version 6.2 to 8.2P Re: Compile and gone! (Was: Re: VMS>7.3 Linker Manual - I64 Short Data restricti  Re: CSWB: disappearing bookmarks Re: Damning with faint praise?! Re: DEC RAIDArray310 user manual? ! Re: DEC RAIDArray310 user manual? ! Re: DEC RAIDArray310 user manual?  Excessive IO on my emulated vax $ Re: IDE (DQ) devices served to VAX ?& Initializing TK85 tapes on VAX VMS 7.2* Re: Initializing TK85 tapes on VAX VMS 7.2" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Re: latest INQ story on hp support" Long startup times with lots of IO OpenVMS Media Kits (London) = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 = Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27 + Re: Queue manager alpha 8.3 crashes VAX 7.2  Re: Structure of HELPLIB.HLB! Re: TCPIP Services V5.5 questions ! Re: TCPIP Services V5.5 questions 1 Testing for the presence of an attached IO device  USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster. Re: VMS 8.3 upgrade problem: JTQUOTA too small Re: VMS and Qualstar- Who pays court costs for HP's accused felons? 1 Re: Who pays court costs for HP's accused felons?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:25:42 -0400 From: "Ray" <no@spam.me>, Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board, Message-ID: <kFVUg.366$5H6.275@newsfe05.lga>  < All is definitely not well! This just in on the AP newswire:9 http://www.thebostonchannel.com/money/9999998/detail.html   & HP Insiders To Be Charged, Reports Say, California Attorney General Could File Today  D SAN JOSE, Calif. -- California's attorney general will file criminalL indictments Wednesday against former Hewlett-Packard Co. Chairwoman PatriciaK Dunn and four others involved in the corporate spying scandal, according to 
 news reports.   I Citing people familiar with the case, The New York Times and BusinessWeek J reported that Kevin Hunsaker, HP's ousted chief ethics officer, and RonaldL DeLia, a Boston-area private investigator, would each face criminal charges.G Two other outside investigators - Joseph DePante of Melbourne, Fla. and K Bryan Wagner of Littleton, Colo. - were also being charged, the Times said.   C They each will face four felony charges: use of false or fraudulent C pretenses to obtain confidential information from a public utility; G unauthorized access to computer data; identity theft; and conspiracy to  commit each of those crimes.  K The boardroom drama erupted last month when HP disclosed that detectives it F hired to root out the culprits in a series of boardroom leaks secretlyI obtained detailed phone logs of directors, employees and journalists. The B detectives used a potentially criminal form of subterfuge known asL pretexting to masquerade as their targets and trick telephone companies into turning over the records.   I Dunn - who initiated the investigation - said she didn't know until after I the fact that the detectives went to such extremes to unearth clues about J the leaker's identity. She resigned from HP's board after initially saying3 she would step down as chair but remain a director.   J Lawyers for Dunn and the others expected to be charged did not immediatelyI return calls seeking comment. HP declined comment, as did a spokesman for  Attorney General Bill Lockyer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:10:01 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>; Subject: Re: Alpha object file changes - version 6.2 to 8.2 + Message-ID: <45245B69.F42CF83E@comcast.net>   
 Don wrote: > I > I have an object file created using "Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha C > V6.2-1H3".  I just tried to copy and use it on a new Alpha system ? > running OpenVMS v8.2.  The linker did not like the .OBJ file.  > H > Analyze/obj recognized the file as an OpenVMS Alpha object module, but > found multiple errors. > B > Is there any way to "fix" this object module??   The project I'mB > working on is late / over-budget (aren't they all?).  Buying a C9 > license for the new Alpha is probably not in the cards.   3 The advice from others is about as good as it gets.   4 There is no "safe" way to FTP a .OBJ file. Yes, it'sC sequential/variable; however, it contains a lot of binary data. So, E ASCII is inappropriate. Again, it's sequential/variable; so binary is  likewise inappropriate.   D .OBJs must either be "jacketed" in savesets, .ZIP archives, etc., orA they must be stored in .OLB files which are transferred as binary  (Fixed-512).  E That said, if the FTP agents involved support STRU VMS, this would be A almost as good as DECnet. This works between Multinet clients and F servers, and should work between TCPware as well. I've never seen thisH work right with UCX, though it may very well work. Haven't tried lately.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 18:02:14 -0700 / From: "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> Y Subject: Re: Compile and gone! (Was: Re: VMS>7.3 Linker Manual - I64 Short Data restricti B Message-ID: <1160010134.400430.205180@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Richard Maher wrote:
 > Hi John, >  > Quick update: -  > M > I take back a good half of the SHORT DATA whinge! Tried to build the system N > again on 8.3 with the latest BASIC compiler and the short data stuff came inM > at 2.7MB and plenty of head-room to grow. (Image size still 0.5GB, but what  > can you do :-) > I > Don't know what happened between 8.1 and 8.3 with the Linker or whether E > BASIC got less agressive in it's short data annexing but who cares?  >  > Cheers Richard Maher   Dickie,   3 I think you will find that the system you are using  is actually 8.2, not 8.3...    Dave   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:04:29 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)) Subject: Re: CSWB: disappearing bookmarks 2 Message-ID: <06100413042912_2020028F@antinode.org>  ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   5 > >>> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: . > >>> With (the latest version of) CSWB, [...] > > ) > >> Just a WAG, I don't use the product.  > > L > >    Why not?  On an EV6 system, it's not actually torture.  (At least not5 > > by the currently evolving definition of torture.)  > A > My only working Alphas are AlphaStation 200 4/233 systems, EV4.   H    Ah.  As I recall, with my AlpSta 200 4/233 (768MB memory), it usuallyB felt as if I were drowning.  (But it feels so good when you stop.)  E    I still try to use Netscape 3 for as much as possible, but it just % can't cope with more and more places.   1    Perhaps you should be shopping for newer junk.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 04:24:16 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: Damning with faint praise? J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-1D6D7E.04241605102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  1 In article <eg0kml$ej3$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, 5  "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote:   
 > Hi Paul, > 9 > > Sorry. I didn't quite follow your attributions there,  > K > Well, it's all about you isn't it? Let's hold everyone else back and stop 6 > the bus just so Paul Sture can catch-up. Only child? >   I Nope. It's all about you misquoting. If you are going to claim that "Guy  + gushed", please supply a _valid_ reference.   A All Guy did was to refute John Gillings' inference that his only  > experience of VMS was "He was only with HP for what, 6 years?"   Both on ITRC at   I http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1063  773   ' ---- quote of Guy's response there ----   ( Sep 28, 2006 14:44:23 GMT  Unassigned   Just to comment on John's reply  ) (I did not want to get involved but could ( not resist when I saw my name mentioned)  ( When I joined engineering, I already had& 7 years of experience with VMS (system manager and support center).   Guy    ---- end quote ----   F and here in response to John Reinhardt's unfortunate regurgitation of " Gillings' corporate drivel on ITRC  " ---- Guy's response on c.o.v. ----@ "When I joined engineering I had 7 years of experience with VMS" ---- end quote ----   & P.S. Your habit of top posting stinks.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:17:06 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com * Subject: Re: DEC RAIDArray310 user manual?0 Message-ID: <87y7rwq731.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ' Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au> writes:   F > The controller appears to be fine except for the cache battery whichD > expired in 2003 and has degraded to the extent that the controllerC > won't use it. Which means that we're limited to JBOD until we can E > find a replacement.  A reseller suggested I should be able to go to F > any battery "superstore" and find something suitable, but I'm not so. > sure.  Any further comment would be welcome.  H DEC often used Gates, aka Hawken Cyclon lead acid cells. Super D I thinkK is the size. Note, they are NOT gel cells, a gel cell would evaporate under G the loads Cyclons can run at. If it is a SW brick like unit with a tiny . D like connector, it takes 2 of them per side.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 18:55:28 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) * Subject: Re: DEC RAIDArray310 user manual?, Message-ID: <YeGYONYARCz6@malvm3.mala.bc.ca>  1 In article <12i6agjri5ct40b@corp.supernews.com>,  +     Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au> writes:  > O > The controller appears to be fine except for the cache battery which expired  K > in 2003 and has degraded to the extent that the controller won't use it.  M > Which means that we're limited to JBOD until we can find a replacement.  A  L > reseller suggested I should be able to go to any battery "superstore" and N > find something suitable, but I'm not so sure.  Any further comment would be 
 > welcome. > I    If you have the unit on a UPS ( or preferably two different UPSes, one G into each power supply ) then you can enable full functionality without & a live battery by entering the command   SET THIS_CONTROLLER CACHE_UPS   :   I think you need to restart after entering this command.  H   Be careful to not lose power if you do this as you may do some serious' damage to your mirrorsets and raidsets.   I   "Lose power" in this case includes turning the power switch off without  first doing a:      SHUTDOWN THIS_CONTROLLER     H  as to the battery, I suspect a battery superstore should be able to getJ one for you. As you've probably already determined you need to disassembleG the entire unit to get the battery out (that was the thing I hated most  about these units).    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 20:14:09 -0700 ; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> * Subject: Re: DEC RAIDArray310 user manual?A Message-ID: <1160018048.923080.74860@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:2 > In article <12i6agjri5ct40b@corp.supernews.com>,- >     Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au> writes:  > > P > > The controller appears to be fine except for the cache battery which expiredL > > in 2003 and has degraded to the extent that the controller won't use it.N > > Which means that we're limited to JBOD until we can find a replacement.  AM > > reseller suggested I should be able to go to any battery "superstore" and O > > find something suitable, but I'm not so sure.  Any further comment would be  > > welcome. > > K >    If you have the unit on a UPS ( or preferably two different UPSes, one I > into each power supply ) then you can enable full functionality without ( > a live battery by entering the command >  > SET THIS_CONTROLLER CACHE_UPS  > < >   I think you need to restart after entering this command. > J >   Be careful to not lose power if you do this as you may do some serious) > damage to your mirrorsets and raidsets.  > K >   "Lose power" in this case includes turning the power switch off without  > first doing a: >  >    SHUTDOWN THIS_CONTROLLER  >  > J >  as to the battery, I suspect a battery superstore should be able to getL > one for you. As you've probably already determined you need to disassembleI > the entire unit to get the battery out (that was the thing I hated most  > about these units).   A Do a search of the newsgroup for "HSx battery" and you will get a E couple hits about where to get replacement cells and a couple methods D for replacing them.  You want the post from Duncan Brown.  I've doneE replacements on both the older style Storageworks bricks as described D in his posts and for the batteries in the Model 2200 Storage ShelvesB for the HSG80.  They both use the same basic Hawker Cyclon 2V leadF battery.  In fact, I just disassembled the ECB for an HSV110 (EVA5000)E and each of the two batteries in those units used 3 of the same cells F soldered onto a PC board.  They are hot-glued into the plastic shells,G so I'm lucky mine are still good (for now) but at least I know where to  get the cells.  B Hopefully the ECB's for your RAIDarray are similar.  The cells areD available for about $8 each so if you can do some soldering then youG can build new ones fairly cheap.  One of the suppliers mentioned in the G  other posts also has assembled packs for the StorageWorks brick style. B  Unfortunately the connectors are wrong for the Model 2200 versionC (contrary to my earlier posting) so you can't use the pre-assembled  packs.     John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 03:18:38 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> ( Subject: Excessive IO on my emulated vax- Message-ID: <iQ_Ug.90292$1T2.86142@pd7urf2no>    Running my SIMH VAX emulation   J Fairly freqently, I notice that there is a long delay - associated with a K great amount of Write IO activity on the part of the VAX application and a  C longish delay between the two following messages on the VAX console   L The write activity on the physical side (i.e. the W/XP VAX.exe application) L shows a total byte count about the size (if not more) of the virtual system  pack (RA92).    F %WBM-I-WBMINFO Write Bitmap has successfully completed initialization.  B %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at  4-OCT-2006 20:08:04.26    5 Anyone have any thoughs on what might be happening ??    Villy    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:30:28 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com - Subject: Re: IDE (DQ) devices served to VAX ? 0 Message-ID: <87u02kq6gr.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  , sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:  D >    You're working too hard.  A non-zero allocation class is neededC > only for disks which are accessible directly from multiple nodes. E > (RF-series DSSI disks are considered so, even if they are connected  > to only one system.)  % Yes, but $1$ is shorter than BIKE$...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:16:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Initializing TK85 tapes on VAX VMS 7.2 , Message-ID: <45246AE7.8CF3B051@teksavvy.com>   I've hit a roadblock.   H I have a TF85 tape drive, DSSI based connected to a VAX. Now DSSI is old stuff, older than VMS 7.2.  E HELP INIT/DENSITY on VAX-VMS 7.2 mentions that starting with 7.2, one 2 has access to density keywords which include TK85.  F On ALPHA 8.2, the same help says that those densities only appeared on ALPHA starting at 7.2.    F The CLD for INITIALIZE on VAX-7.2 only includes the keywords documeted to be available prior to 7.2.   E I recently read some TK70s to restore backups. Now, I can't use TK85s B anymore. When i try to initialise them, it ends with parity error.  G I can then mount it , it shows the right label, but the density is that H of much older tapes. (which would be indicative of parity problems sinceL those tapes are not supposed to be able to write to older generation tapes).  A The documentation states that initialising a tape with no desnity G specification retains the existing density setting. Which means that if  it is wrong, it remains wrong.  C Yet, with VMS 7.2 , I am unable to specify the TK85 keyword for the 4 density to ensure the tapes are properly initilised.    D How come there was no support for old DSSI tape drives in VAX 7.2 ? H Those DSSI devices were designed for vaxes to begin with, weren't they ?    > I wanted to backup my system disk before upgrading it to 7.3.   H I realise that this is all old unsupported suff now. But I am curious onG the reasons that VAX-VMS 7.2 didn't support those tapes even though the D help files says that they did ? Didn't those tapes appear in the mid& 1990s when DSSI was at its last days ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:46:19 -0400/ From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 3 Subject: Re: Initializing TK85 tapes on VAX VMS 7.2 I Message-ID: <8660a3a10610042046v1aa2e384i4a8e619122b6b06e@mail.gmail.com>   ) ------=_Part_95143_33184619.1160019979193 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   : On 10/4/06, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >  > I've hit a roadblock.  > J > I have a TF85 tape drive, DSSI based connected to a VAX. Now DSSI is old > stuff, older than VMS 7.2. > G > HELP INIT/DENSITY on VAX-VMS 7.2 mentions that starting with 7.2, one 4 > has access to density keywords which include TK85. > H > On ALPHA 8.2, the same help says that those densities only appeared on > ALPHA starting at 7.2. >  > H > The CLD for INITIALIZE on VAX-7.2 only includes the keywords documeted > to be available prior to 7.2.  > G > I recently read some TK70s to restore backups. Now, I can't use TK85s D > anymore. When i try to initialise them, it ends with parity error. > I > I can then mount it , it shows the right label, but the density is that J > of much older tapes. (which would be indicative of parity problems sinceF > those tapes are not supposed to be able to write to older generation	 > tapes).  > C > The documentation states that initialising a tape with no desnity I > specification retains the existing density setting. Which means that if   > it is wrong, it remains wrong. > E > Yet, with VMS 7.2 , I am unable to specify the TK85 keyword for the 6 > density to ensure the tapes are properly initilised. >  > E > How come there was no support for old DSSI tape drives in VAX 7.2 ? J > Those DSSI devices were designed for vaxes to begin with, weren't they ? >  > ? > I wanted to backup my system disk before upgrading it to 7.3.  > J > I realise that this is all old unsupported suff now. But I am curious onI > the reasons that VAX-VMS 7.2 didn't support those tapes even though the F > help files says that they did ? Didn't those tapes appear in the mid( > 1990s when DSSI was at its last days ? >   $ How much would you give for a TF857? I have one in the garage.    WWWebb --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ) ------=_Part_95143_33184619.1160019979193 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   A<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">JF Mezei</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com">jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I've hit a roadblock.<br><br>I have a TF85 tape drive, DSSI based connected to a VAX. Now DSSI is old<br>stuff, older than VMS 7.2.<br><br>HELP INIT/DENSITY on VAX-VMS 7.2 mentions that starting with 7.2, one<br>has access to density keywords which include TK85. <br><br>On ALPHA 8.2, the same help says that those densities only appeared on<br>ALPHA starting at 7.2.<br><br><br>The CLD for INITIALIZE on VAX-7.2 only includes the keywords documeted<br>to be available prior to 7.2.<br>  <br>I recently read some TK70s to restore backups. Now, I can't use TK85s<br>anymore. When i try to initialise them, it ends with parity error.<br><br>I can then mount it , it shows the right label, but the density is that <br>of much older tapes. (which would be indicative of parity problems since<br>those tapes are not supposed to be able to write to older generation tapes).<br><br>The documentation states that initialising a tape with no desnity  <br>specification retains the existing density setting. Which means that if<br>it is wrong, it remains wrong.<br><br>Yet, with VMS 7.2 , I am unable to specify the TK85 keyword for the<br>density to ensure the tapes are properly initilised. <br><br><br>How come there was no support for old DSSI tape drives in VAX 7.2 ?<br>Those DSSI devices were designed for vaxes to begin with, weren't they ?<br><br><br>I wanted to backup my system disk before upgrading it to  7.3.<br><br>I realise that this is all old unsupported suff now. But I am curious on<br>the reasons that VAX-VMS 7.2 didn't support those tapes even though the<br>help files says that they did ? Didn't those tapes appear in the mid  <br>1990s when DSSI was at its last days ?<br></blockquote></div><br>How much would you give for a TF857?<br clear="all">I have one in the garage.<br><br>WWWebb<br>-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br>Site resident at <br>Quest DiagnosticsK <br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com   + ------=_Part_95143_33184619.1160019979193--    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 06 13:41:19 EDT ) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support ! Message-ID: <6lhKrUcRYr2C@wvnvms>   g In article <4523d81b$0$5899$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: K > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message  / > news:YSsZC49dgkQK@eisner.encompasserve.org... F >> In article <4ohnfvFept51U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >> Gunshannon) writes: >> > [...snip...] >>@ >>   The show you watched may have been on PBS, but I think yourG >>   conclusions belong on "In Search Of...".  You been drinking Vulcan  >>   wine lately?  >>L > Hey hold on a minute. There's no such thing as Vulcan wine. Maybe you are " > referring to Klingon Blood Wine?  @ I suspect he meant Romulan Ale (assuming a Star trek reference).     George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 18:04:59 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)+ Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support + Message-ID: <4oibeaFem2i3U1@individual.net>   ; In article <4523df43$0$5940$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, , 	"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > 8 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:4ohnfvFept51U1@individual.net...  > [...snip...]K >> PS.  The above goes a long way towards explaining why I am as anti-union L >> as I am.  Both the above knowledge and my personal experience with unionsM >> have taught me that while the commies may not be the driving force anymore M >> helping the downtrodden workers isn't either.  It's still all about power.  >> > " > OK now I see your point of view. > O > But you have to admit that if there was a communist component to unions, our  2 > respective governments would make them illegal.   L Maybe during the McCarthy era.  Which is, of coiurse, why this person didn'tM admit his true motives at the time he was doing it but waited till many years N later when it would not only be acceptable, but laudable in the minds of many.  O >                                                 I've been a union member for  N > 33 years and my union dues are 100% tax deductible (at least in Canada; I'm * > not sure about the tax laws in the US).   H Not sure what that has to do with it.  The American Communist Party is aF legitimate politcal party with all the rights and priviledges affordedG the Demopcrats and Republicans.  I expect they are tax deductible under F the same provisions as uniforms (and in some cases, even haircuts), as, a legitimate and mandatory business expense.  N >                                         Unions got lots of bad press 50, or L > more, years ago because of ties to "far left wackos" AND "infiltration by M > organized crime". Today it's a different story. The people in my union are  M > more like members of the early craft guilds. In my opinion we are the only  O > people in most companies with pride in what we do. (It's the MBA's that take   > the money then run).     Jimmy Hoffa was an MBA?   N >                       But my final word on unions is this: upper management L > in most companies today negotiate their compensation agreements through a H > lawyer or some other such specialist. Now the same thing happens when L > rank-and-file employees negotiate hire a professional to negotiate for us   > during the bargaining process.  O Except that the playing field isn't level.  The one who tookt he financial risk L in establishing the business and continues to take that risk in operating itL has little if any leverage short of shutting the business down and moving itL elswhere (usually at a prohibitive cost) while the union can stop production and hold the company hostage.   H Actually, unions are probably responsible for many more jobs leaving theF US than those evil Republicans.  Even here in hick-town PA I have seenH businesses forced to close up and relocate (usually overseas) because of+ totally unrealistic demands made by unions.   N But in the long run, you are not going to convnce me thay are good and I won'tM convince you they are evil and we have been thru all this here before.  I was N only trying to point out that while stupidity adequate4ly explains the actionsJ of most of the people who run american businesses (badly) it does not meanM there is no chance of outside influence.  "Just because your paranoid doesn't $ mean everyone isn't out to get you!"   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 15:01:57 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support ; Message-ID: <45240507$0$5896$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   , <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message $ news:eg0n60$j$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...K > In article <4523d81b$0$5899$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck"    > <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >> [...snip...] >>? > Actually there is but it has nothing to do with Star Trek see  > L > http://www.savethevulcan.co.uk/  and pickup your personalised Vulcan wine.   Oh. That Vulcan.   > 7 > Or of course you could always have a Vulcan Mind Meld  >  > - 1 part Ouzo  > - 1 part Rum 151 Proof >   ' This would be more of a "mind melt" :-)   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 15:26:12 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support ; Message-ID: <45240ab5$0$5907$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   6 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:4oibeaFem2i3U1@individual.net...  >  [...snip...]M > Except that the playing field isn't level.  The one who tookt he financial   > riskL > in establishing the business and continues to take that risk in operating  > itL > has little if any leverage short of shutting the business down and moving  > itD > elswhere (usually at a prohibitive cost) while the union can stop  > production > and hold the company hostage.  > J Uhm, the one who took the financial risk is almost always paid off at the J time the company goes public (IPO). A big problem here is that the people K who take a company public sometimes will continue to act as if "they still  K own the company". This ownership attitude is also sometimes true of people  - who were later brought in to run the company.   A I recently saw a company (can't mention the name) make some very  H questionable decisions then justified it by saying "we're doing this to C increase shareholder value". Then when shareholders brought up the  M questionable decisions at a shareholders meeting one of the directors played  I the free market card by stating "if you don't like our decisions you are  K free to sell your shares and invest elsewhere". In this case whose company  
 is it anyway?        ###   J I respect your position to dislike unions though. When viewed in the full D light of day (warts and all) there are sometimes a few questionable K characters hiding out amongst the respectable majority. But let me ask you   this: in the following list I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_scandal#List_of_corporate_scandals 1 how many of these problems were caused by unions?   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/         ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:58:22 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support : Message-ID: <m5ednUUQp5DDj7nYnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Neil Rieck wrote:   8 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:4oibeaFem2i3U1@individual.net...  >  > [...snip...] <snip>	 >     ###  > L > I respect your position to dislike unions though. When viewed in the full F > light of day (warts and all) there are sometimes a few questionable : > characters hiding out amongst the respectable majority.  <snip>   Where IS Jimmy Hoffa?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:16:42 GMT ; From: "Duncan Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support > Message-ID: <KEUUg.29208$r61.10397@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  M HP are doing even more to kill their support if the following INQ article is   correct 5 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34842    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:02:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support , Message-ID: <45242171.ABE93A1B@teksavvy.com>   Neil Rieck wrote: M > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_scandal#List_of_corporate_scandals ) J > and that these people are part of our wave of bureaucracy. Ten years agoN > people like this would not have been allowed to kill off Alpha but they seemH > really good at other sneaky stuff like bugging phones, bugging emails,L > pretexting private identities, and moving employee jobs off-shore in order  > to increase their own bonuses.  H Worldcom is the product of an overexhuberant stock exchange that gave anG asset-less company (Worldcom) the cash to buy a real company (MCI) that C was orders of magnitudes bigger. Once in there way over they heads, 6 worldcom has to resort to dirty tricks to stay afloat.  H Nortel is different. They realised that their legacy telephony stuff hadA no future, and instead of developping their own "information age" F products, they went on an acquisition phase.  Buying BAY Networks gaveH Nortel an "in" in the router business right away. (they even got an "in"C on consumer goods via Bay's Netgear subsidiary. The problem is that H Nortel continued on an acquisition binge buying stuff left ad right that didn't make sense.  H So Nortel is in fact the exact opposite of Worldcom: a real company thatF killed itself by buying too much junk. (BAy Networks was not Junk, but= many of their other acquisitions were). Both were fueld by an 4 overexhuberant stock market that acted irrationally.  F Compaq's acquisition of Digital made some sense in that it gave CompaqG instant access to a world wide support organisation and and opportunity E to fix the parts broken by Palmer and restore the enterprise stuff to @ benefit Compaq. Ubnfortunatly, the stock market did not have theC patience and Pfeiffer was ousted, replaced by some incompetant twit H whose only competance is calling M&A bankers to beg them to find a buyer% for the company he is unable to lead.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 14:33:43 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support C Message-ID: <1159997623.400596.139940@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:4oibeaFem2i3U1@individual.net...  > >  > [...snip...]N > > Except that the playing field isn't level.  The one who tookt he financial > > riskM > > in establishing the business and continues to take that risk in operating  > > itM > > has little if any leverage short of shutting the business down and moving  > > itE > > elswhere (usually at a prohibitive cost) while the union can stop  > > production! > > and hold the company hostage.  > >   D If a company is viewed as a good and fair place to work, unions haveE little chance of forming. If not, then unionization is likely. If the A union is strong enough, and the company bends often enough to its F demands, then the demands will eventually exceed the company's abilityD to meet them and the company will be forced into dramatic change, or5 face closure. The auto industry shines as an example.   K > Uhm, the one who took the financial risk is almost always paid off at the % > time the company goes public (IPO).   E The people who take the company public are usually making a good wage B already. Then they put their faith in the value of the shares theyE reserve for themselves when they go public. The IPO could turn out to > be another Google (Nasdaq:GOOG) or it could be another (Vonage	 (NYSE:VG)   ' > A big problem here is that the people L > who take a company public sometimes will continue to act as if "they stillL > own the company". This ownership attitude is also sometimes true of people/ > who were later brought in to run the company.  >   D Significant share of ownership usually remains with the principal(s)B and stock options are standard for new top-level hires. This means/ these people do have some feeling of ownership.   B Wall Street and fund managers decide whether or not the company isE doing a good job and value the stock accordingly. Too bad, but that's  the way it works.   C Things like WFR and plant closings and/or relocations can boost the > stock value because they can have a positive influence on "theF numbers". These management moves are "fast and easy". Increasing salesB and market share to get equivalent ratio moves is "slow and hard".  B Like someone here already said: It's an MBA thing. (MBA, Me Before
 Anything?)    B > I recently saw a company (can't mention the name) make some veryI > questionable decisions then justified it by saying "we're doing this to D > increase shareholder value". Then when shareholders brought up theN > questionable decisions at a shareholders meeting one of the directors playedJ > the free market card by stating "if you don't like our decisions you areL > free to sell your shares and invest elsewhere". In this case whose company > is it anyway?  >   F The large shareholders own the company. With most companies, BOD's areD appointed by the large shareholders. Elections are just a formality.D Small shareholders own pieces of paper, period. A large fund holdingG millions of shares, though, can make or break the stock in minutes, and  the company knows it.     	 >     ###  > K > I respect your position to dislike unions though. When viewed in the full E > light of day (warts and all) there are sometimes a few questionable L > characters hiding out amongst the respectable majority. But let me ask you > this: in the following list K > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_scandal#List_of_corporate_scandals 3 > how many of these problems were caused by unions?  >   G Good list. Good question. I once-upon-a-time enjoyed playing "what does G that have to do with the price of tea in China?" Some might be familiar B with that old expression, or maybe the "six degrees of separation"@ theory. Interestingly enough, everything is somehow connected to everything. ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:34:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support , Message-ID: <452428F8.1D32AECA@teksavvy.com>   Duncan Macdonald wrote:  > N > HP are doing even more to kill their support if the following INQ article is	 > correct 7 > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34842   C Why don't they just force/announce pay cuts to employees instead of  these shenanigans ?   C Oh, I forgot. As long as the HP is profitable, it is pretty hard to G connvince your employees they need to make a sacrifice in order to help ' the shareholders buy a new Rolls Royce.     = Large corporations seem to be really genetically incapable of E intelligent work force reductions. (And preventing hiring abuses that @ usually follow work force reductions resulting in more rounds of reductions years later)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 18:12:33 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support ; Message-ID: <452431b2$0$5928$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:45242171.ABE93A1B@teksavvy.com... > Neil Rieck wrote:  > J > Worldcom is the product of an overexhuberant stock exchange that gave anI > asset-less company (Worldcom) the cash to buy a real company (MCI) that E > was orders of magnitudes bigger. Once in there way over they heads, 8 > worldcom has to resort to dirty tricks to stay afloat. >   J They "had to" resort to dirty tricks? WorldCom was a scam from the get-go G and Bernard Ebbers is in jail because her was found guilty as the head   ring-leader.  J > Nortel is different. They realised that their legacy telephony stuff hadC > no future, and instead of developping their own "information age" H > products, they went on an acquisition phase.  Buying BAY Networks gaveJ > Nortel an "in" in the router business right away. (they even got an "in"E > on consumer goods via Bay's Netgear subsidiary. The problem is that J > Nortel continued on an acquisition binge buying stuff left ad right that > didn't make sense.  J You are wrong on this one too. I know because I work in this industry and  watched it happen.  ! ### Nortel Part # (John Roth) ###   M Nortel was making a "ton" of money each year just doing software support for  K DMS telephone switches and PBXs. Around 1996 they noticed they were making  M way more money on optical networking AND that this new business was doubling  M every year. They were making so much money that they decided to abandon less  M profitable businesses, like telephony, to pay exclusive attention to optical  L networking. They sold off less profitable units and used their stock to buy J companies of the future (dot-com / dot-con) which turned out to be nearly L worthless. By the fall of 2000 north America had installed optical capacity L to last until 2007 so the orders stopped coming in. If they would have kept L their core business they could have fallen back on that, but it was gone so  everything collapsed.   # ### Nortel Part #2 (Frank Dunn) ###   K Dunn was brought in to replace Roth and improve shareholder confidence. He  J was originally Roth's CFO and now got the Board to approve a bonus scheme H based upon getting Nortel profitable before a certain date. He, and his D cronies, cooked the books in order to trigger the bonus. This false M information was also leaked to the stock markets to prop up the price of the   stock.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 23:33:39 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)+ Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support + Message-ID: <4oiumjFeojupU1@individual.net>   ; In article <45240ab5$0$5907$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, , 	"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > 8 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:4oibeaFem2i3U1@individual.net...  >> > [...snip...]N >> Except that the playing field isn't level.  The one who tookt he financial  >> risk M >> in establishing the business and continues to take that risk in operating   >> it M >> has little if any leverage short of shutting the business down and moving   >> it E >> elswhere (usually at a prohibitive cost) while the union can stop  
 >> production   >> and hold the company hostage. >>L > Uhm, the one who took the financial risk is almost always paid off at the & > time the company goes public (IPO).   K The risk never goes away.  It may change hands, but someone has invested in E the company and its continued existence.  Even when it "goes public".   L >                                     A big problem here is that the people M > who take a company public sometimes will continue to act as if "they still   > own the company".   L They usually own a substantial part of the company and even if not, they areJ the ones charged, by the owners, with running it and protecting its value.  M >                   This ownership attitude is also sometimes true of people  / > who were later brought in to run the company.    Same as above.   > C > I recently saw a company (can't mention the name) make some very  J > questionable decisions then justified it by saying "we're doing this to E > increase shareholder value". Then when shareholders brought up the  O > questionable decisions at a shareholders meeting one of the directors played  K > the free market card by stating "if you don't like our decisions you are  M > free to sell your shares and invest elsewhere". In this case whose company   > is it anyway?   ? The shareholders.  Who should have then thrown the rascals out.    > 	 >     ###  > L > I respect your position to dislike unions though. When viewed in the full F > light of day (warts and all) there are sometimes a few questionable M > characters hiding out amongst the respectable majority. But let me ask you   > this: in the following list K > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_scandal#List_of_corporate_scandals 3 > how many of these problems were caused by unions?   G Red herring.  None of those people ever stood up and said they were the H champion of the working man.  Doesn't justify what they did, but doesn't2 exonerate the unions for the evils they do either.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2006 00:12:22 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)+ Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support + Message-ID: <4oj0v6Fet30lU1@individual.net>   C In article <1159997623.400596.139940@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, 0 	"Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > Neil Rieck wrote: 8 >> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( >> news:4oibeaFem2i3U1@individual.net... >> > >> [...snip...] O >> > Except that the playing field isn't level.  The one who tookt he financial 	 >> > risk N >> > in establishing the business and continues to take that risk in operating >> > it N >> > has little if any leverage short of shutting the business down and moving >> > it F >> > elswhere (usually at a prohibitive cost) while the union can stop >> > production " >> > and hold the company hostage. >> > > F > If a company is viewed as a good and fair place to work, unions haveG > little chance of forming. If not, then unionization is likely. If the C > union is strong enough, and the company bends often enough to its H > demands, then the demands will eventually exceed the company's abilityF > to meet them and the company will be forced into dramatic change, or > face closure.   H Nice textbook explanation of the way they claim it works.  Reality tendsH to differ.  The organizers can come in offering anything and frequently F do.  Often offering unreasonable demands they intend to present to theG owners.  I won't re-hash it again, but we have a local company that has E had one small section vote in a union twice in the 40 or so years the H plant has been here.  In both cases by the end of the first contract theE unionized section was behind in pay and benefits compared tot he rest H of the plant and they voted the union out again.  Doesn't stop the unionF organizers from keeping up a constant attemp to get in the door again.  8 >                The auto industry shines as an example.  F Ford and GM are both in financial difficulties trying to keep up with B unreasonable conditions they were forced into by unions over time.C A rather simplistic view, but I don't think there is enough time to C cover everything and they did contribute more than the lion's share * of the Big Three's current moeny problems.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 05:02:05 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> + Subject: Re: latest INQ story on hp support J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-51388A.05020505102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1159972622.515084.267090@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "  "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote:  : > when you ring will there be someone to answer the phone?1 > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5406270.stm   F Potential for more severe disruption than any caused by unions in the  West?   " "Strikes close Indian tech capital   ...   H  More than 1,500 Indian and multinational technology firms like Hewlett A Packard, Dell, Microsoft, IBM, Infosys and Wipro have offices in  
 Bangalore.   Peaceful demonstration    F Most of them were closed as companies feared a repeat of the violence H that hit the city last April, when people rioted for two days following # the death of film legend Rajkumar."    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:23:22 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> + Subject: Long startup times with lots of IO - Message-ID: <u0_Ug.95162$R63.32075@pd7urf1no>    Greetings all...  J Can someone tells me what might cause a long delay with lots of IO on the K virtual machine (I'm running SIMH on a W/XP Sp2 1.5ghz 1gb P4) between the  % following two messages during startup   F %WBM-I-WBMINFO Write Bitmap has successfully completed initialization.  B %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at  4-OCT-2006 20:08:04.26  L This is not an always occurrence, but it seems to happen fairly frequently. E I don't ever remember it happening on my W98/SE box., but I could be  I mistaken.  When it does happen, the IO byte count is high enough that it  D appears to be scanning the entire system pack - a RA92 virtual disk.  K Somewhat less frequently but not necessarily related, I also see a similar  K amount of IO when shutting down - after the "system shutdown - use console  L to halt..." message and SIMH finally deciding to tell me that the system is J in it's tight little shutdown loop.  If I didn't know any better, I would H guess that the system (W/XP) is busy flushing the buffer for one of the D virtual RA92s - and the entire pack has been buffered - the virtual H processor (i.e. the VAX.exe application) is paging itself silly (that's K under W/XP) while the write IO byte count is busy adding a RA92's worth of   bytes to it's count.   Any thoughts ???   Villy    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 17:34:33 -0700 % From: "JP" <J.Pelan@gatsby.ucl.ac.uk> $ Subject: OpenVMS Media Kits (London)@ Message-ID: <1160008473.673814.7370@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  E I have a very large pile of OpenVMS media kits available at a site in E central London. Please e-mail me if you are interested in taking them A away. No licenses included, I'm afraid, but plenty of OS, product F library and documentation kits of the 7.2/7.3 vintage, I believe. MostC are still in their wrappers! You can have them for free if you take ( them *all* away (or arrange collection).  1 Incidently, there's a similar pile of Tru64 kits.    -- John P.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 18:38:51 +0100. From: "David Biddulph" <david@biddulph.org.uk>F Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27/ Message-ID: <4523eec5_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>   H "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote in message * news:12i7nannf2u1195@news.supernews.com...J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:ri7MQURBpuF6@eisner.encompasserve.org... = >> In article <00A5CB22.CDEA1B46@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  > @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  >> >J >> > My wife and I were in the UK for the weekend.  We passed by a shop inJ >> > Bilston (please, no "Why the hell were you in Bilston of all places!"K >> > comments) and I saw a VAX in the window.  I told my wife that the unix 2 >> > crowd used to love this vacuum's sales motto. >>I >>    I've seen them for sale in US stores.  I gladly forgot which chain.    > Where the hell is Bliston? >  > What county?  ' He didn't say Bliston, he said Bilston.   0 Which county?  Now there's a difficult question.   Historic County: Staffordshire  Ceremonial County: West MidlandsK but administratively, Wolverhampton (City and Metropolitan Borough), not a  
 county at all  --   David Biddulph     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:22:01 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGF Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 270 Message-ID: <00A5CB51.4DF62C28@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <12i7nannf2u1195@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:  >  >  >Where the hell is Bliston?  > 
 >What county?   : ...and you, David, called yourself a subject of the crown.  H Bilston is near Wolverhampton.  I was there to photograph a festival gig) at the Robin.  http://www.therobin.co.uk/    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:25:05 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGF Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 270 Message-ID: <00A5CB51.BB85BE78@SendSpamHere.ORG>  | In article <paul.sture.nospam-82928E.19165504102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: >  > 1 >In article <12i7nfvqtkvg541@news.supernews.com>, ? > "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:  > O >> If that's anywhere near Cannock or Wolverhampton, I AM going to ask, what in % >> "***"'s name were you doing there! I >> I did a google search - and unless you just sent a wee tike to private L >> school or you decided to become either a cheese expert or coalminer there >> ain't much to see or do...  >>   >  >Didn't look hard enough :-) >  >My guess is this one: > $ >"Summer's End Festival, Bilston UK"  G Very good Paul.  I was in Swindon Hook too.  Let's see if you can find   where and why. :)    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:16:19 -0500 # From: Alex Zorrilla <apz@zxeng.com> F Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27, Message-ID: <eg1fc802905@enews3.newsguy.com>  H I was gonna say... why in the world would Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman F be there ( http://www.therobin.co.uk ) on October 25?  Then I figured I out that Jon must be the coalminer and Rick is the cheese expert, so now   it all makes sense.  :P      Paul Sture wrote: 2 > In article <12i7nfvqtkvg541@news.supernews.com>,@ >  "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote: > O >> If that's anywhere near Cannock or Wolverhampton, I AM going to ask, what in % >> "***"'s name were you doing there! I >> I did a google search - and unless you just sent a wee tike to private L >> school or you decided to become either a cheese expert or coalminer there >> ain't much to see or do...  >> >  > Didn't look hard enough :-)  >  > My guess is this one:  > % > "Summer's End Festival, Bilston UK"  >    ------------------------------    Date: 04 Oct 2006 20:11:35 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27. Message-ID: <mddbqoroc3s.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  < > In article <45237C0F.8004.8DC0690@squayle.insight.rr.com>,7 > 	"Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:    >> No, the *other* VAX:   I >> http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/display.var.947332.0.droitwich_vacuum_e ' >> ntrepreneur_brazier_dies_aged_74.php   ; > I wonder if he was also responsible for the sales motto:  A >                                     "Nothing sucks like a Vax!"   N I've heard this most of my professional DEC-oriented life, but I was under theO impression that this was wishful thinking on the part of the 36-bit crowd.  The M company with the motto was a major competitor of Vax:  "Nothing sucks like an  Electrolux!"   > billG > (Who will only give up his Vax, not the vacuum cleaner, when they pry & > them from my cold dead hands!!)  :-)  D You're spending too much time next to the HVAC in the computer room!   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 19:11:45 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)F Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 272 Message-ID: <06100419114572_2020028F@antinode.org>   Paul Sture wrote: 2 > In article <12i7nfvqtkvg541@news.supernews.com>,@ >  "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote: > O >> If that's anywhere near Cannock or Wolverhampton, I AM going to ask, what in % >> "***"'s name were you doing there! I >> I did a google search - and unless you just sent a wee tike to private L >> school or you decided to become either a cheese expert or coalminer there >> ain't much to see or do...   H    Why does this all remind me of Auchtermuchty in the (in)famous Miller beer "Fox Hat" ad?         http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/itc/itc_publications/complaints_reports/advertising_complaints/show_complaint.asp-ad_complaint_id=359.html   ! (Video available around the Web.)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 05:28:50 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> F Subject: Re: OT:  The inventor of the Vax machine died on September 27J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-00FD68.05285005102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  0 In article <00A5CB51.BB85BE78@SendSpamHere.ORG>,"  VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  M > In article <paul.sture.nospam-82928E.19165504102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>,  3 > Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:  > >  > >  > >My guess is this one: > > & > >"Summer's End Festival, Bilston UK" > I > Very good Paul.  I was in Swindon Hook too.  Let's see if you can find   > where and why. :)   H Hmm. Is Hook just north of Wootton Bassett and the M4, in the middle of F nowhere? If it's the place I'm thinking of, that's where I discovered I Flowers Bitter (you have unwittingly taken me back to my mainframe days).    Aha - this *has* to be it:  $ http://www.riffsbar.biz/riffsbar.htm  
 October... Sunday 1   Line up:H STEVE HOGARTH - A rare solo performance by the lead singer of Marillion.  @ From the rest of the website, it looks to be an excellent venue.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:49:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Queue manager alpha 8.3 crashes VAX 7.2+ Message-ID: <45241E60.CA397AE@teksavvy.com>    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  > I > The presentation for the VMS Roadmaps suggest that VAX 7.3 is warranted I > with 7.3, 8.2 and 8.3 on Alpha in the same cluster.  That could be just H > because 7.2 is not on the support schedules now, either on standard or, > prior version with sustaining engineering.  E But i am still curious to know what changed to make 7.3 queue manager  interwork while 7.2 fails.  D Both predater the alphacide, both predate the unofficial decision toG stop producing new VAX-VMS versions. And no patch was issued for 7.3 to G make it interwork with alpha 8.* and "migration support" work with that  IA64 thing.    One thing I can nw see is ODS5.   G While internally, the queue manager works with file IDs and devices, it G must still be able to translate from file ID to file name when you do a F SHOW QUEUE . So it must have access to any disk that a new node brings into the cluster.   D So it looks like I have no choice but to upgrade my vexes to 7.3 and: lose display postscript and the digital logo at login ;-(.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 21:03:35 -0200 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: Structure of HELPLIB.HLB , Message-ID: <452421a7$1@news.langstoeger.at>  \ In article <45236362.84727CD9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >BTW, on VMS 8.3 (alpha):  >  >HELP Introduction >  >yield a BLANK PAGE !!!!!!   That is true for V8.2 already.; But it wasn't there before V8, so it is not a downgrade ;-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:42:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: TCPIP Services V5.5 questions, Message-ID: <45241C98.A8AB80DA@teksavvy.com>   Richard Maher wrote:K > When I spoke with Matt Muggeridge the other week at the Rdb Tech Forum in G > Sydney he was very interested in where peoples TCP/IP priorities lay.   G Interesting to learn that the Gold Coast surfer boy is still working on G TCPIP Services. I had though that his silence here for many moons was a  hint that he had left.  M > PS. Now that the Box Jellyfish are once again to begin their seasonal siege N > to thos shitty little beaches in the East, it wouldn't surprise me at all to" > learn that Matt's on IPsec 24x7.  2 Do they come down as far south as the gold coast ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:07:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: TCPIP Services V5.5 questions, Message-ID: <45242287.581038A4@teksavvy.com>   Richard Maher wrote:L > PS. I figure redundancy too small to jump; Bums on seats could be an issue > though :-)    F When a CEO orders 15,000 staff to be fired, he doesn't care which onesH are fired.  And a GOOD CEO knows that in a downsizing company, it is the= brightest stars that leave first because they will find other G opportunities elsewhere and the original company is stuck with the more  junior people.    E In terms of Mr Muggeridge, isn't he a contractor ? If he survived the H intial "no-contractor" decisions a few years ago, he may not be affected+ by the current payroll employee reductions.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 03:05:57 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> : Subject: Testing for the presence of an attached IO device- Message-ID: <pE_Ug.95348$R63.56397@pd7urf1no>   J Is there a way of verifying if a specified IO address is valid  (i.e. has  something attached) ??  " Can I use the PROBE instruction ??  H Is there a system service that I can call to do that - although I could L probably still scribble up the 4 or 5 instructions of macro needed to build  a subroutine....  M What I suddenly realized is that my SIMH VAX Throttle brings down the system  L rather abruptly if the vax emulator isn't built with the virtual DN11 whose F IO address space I am using to control the CPU utilization of the VAX 	 emulator.    Villy    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:34:21 GMT , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> Subject: USB hampster & Message-ID: <4523F033.428CEA63@hp.com>  ? 	Before someone asks YES I have seen the USB hampster.  A kind  E customer is going to send one to me.  When I have time I will supply  D support code that uses UGDRIVER to drive the hampster.  The obvious H hack it to tie the hampster speed to CPU utilization.  Just look at the D hampster to see how hard your system is working.  So yes stupid USB A hacks for OpenVMS continue was I have time between real projects.   ; 	The current list of odd USB items you can get code for is:   / 	Radio Shack USB Postal Scale	- No longer sold   					  code in sys$examples   0 	USB Mail notification box	- No longer available  , 	USB Barcode readers		- Lots of options here  ) 	USB Missle Launcher		- Still available 	 C 		http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20060513/the-usb-missile-launcher/ A 		http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/86b8/?cpg=froogle   * 	USB Temperature Logger		- Still available- 		http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/el-usb-2.php   4 	USB LCD Display (pertelian X2040) - Still Available 	 W http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DI036&Category_Code=DI 2 		http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/avcards/7e3e/  > 	For the time being if you need code for any of these devices D except for the scale you need to contact me directly.  I hope to getG all of this to the freeware site at some point of into the USB examples E directory.  All of this builds off of the USB generic driver and that  showed up in V8.3.     Forrest    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 12:19:58 -0700 ; From: "William.W.Webb@gmail.com" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: USB hampster C Message-ID: <1159989597.956290.318410@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Forrest Kenney wrote: ? > Before someone asks YES I have seen the USB hampster.  A kind F > customer is going to send one to me.  When I have time I will supplyE > support code that uses UGDRIVER to drive the hampster.  The obvious I > hack it to tie the hampster speed to CPU utilization.  Just look at the E > hampster to see how hard your system is working.  So yes stupid USB C > hacks for OpenVMS continue was I have time between real projects.  > = > 	The current list of odd USB items you can get code for is:  > 0 > 	Radio Shack USB Postal Scale	- No longer sold > 					  code in sys$examples  > 2 > 	USB Mail notification box	- No longer available > . > 	USB Barcode readers		- Lots of options here > ) > 	USB Missle Launcher		- Still available E > 		http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20060513/the-usb-missile-launcher/ C > 		http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/86b8/?cpg=froogle  > , > 	USB Temperature Logger		- Still available/ > 		http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/el-usb-2.php  > 6 > 	USB LCD Display (pertelian X2040) - Still Available > Y > http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DI036&Category_Code=DI 4 > 		http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/avcards/7e3e/ > ? > 	For the time being if you need code for any of these devices F > except for the scale you need to contact me directly.  I hope to getI > all of this to the freeware site at some point of into the USB examples G > directory.  All of this builds off of the USB generic driver and that  > showed up in V8.3. >  > 	 > Forrest   B Thank you for unwittingly posting this most wonderful counterproof9 to the posted concerns others have made in this newsgroup /  with respect to the future of VMS Engineering.   F People with, ahem, job security concerns do not take the time to write FunWidgetCode(tm).   WWWebb   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 21:30:29 GMT  From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: USB hampster , Message-ID: <eg195l115k4@enews4.newsguy.com>  - Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> wrote:   = >         USB LCD Display (pertelian X2040) - Still Available 
 >         Y > http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DI036&Category_Code=DI B >                 http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/avcards/7e3e/  J If I install OpenVMS 8.3 on my XP1000/667 will USB work?  This is the kind) of gadget I'd love to get working on VMS.   K Of course it will be a while before I'm able to get all the pieces in place  to upgrade to 8.3.   		Zane   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: USB hampster 2 Message-ID: <06100416531677_2020028F@antinode.org>   From: healyzh@aracnet.com   / > Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> wrote:  > ? > >         USB LCD Display (pertelian X2040) - Still Available   #    Liquid Crystal Display Display?  , ("http://antinode.org/complaints/aer.html".)  L > If I install OpenVMS 8.3 on my XP1000/667 will USB work?  This is the kind+ > of gadget I'd love to get working on VMS.   C    Judging by my experience with VMS V8.2, it will if you install a = (cheap Chinese) compatible USB PCI card.  I invested the $10.   M > Of course it will be a while before I'm able to get all the pieces in place  > to upgrade to 8.3.  ,    Is it time for a new Hobbyist CD-ROM yet?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:00:55 GMT , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> Subject: Re: USB hampster & Message-ID: <45242EAA.946001B7@hp.com>  7 	The built in USB in the XP1000 will not be enabled by  C installing V8.3.  We will never officially support it.  But if you  C hunt around you will find a post in here from Alan Frisbie telling  B you what you need to add to sys$user_config.dat to get it working.= If you cannot find let me know and we can work something out.        Forrest    healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > / > Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> wrote:  > ? > >         USB LCD Display (pertelian X2040) - Still Available  > > [ > > http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DI036&Category_Code=DI D > >                 http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/avcards/7e3e/ > L > If I install OpenVMS 8.3 on my XP1000/667 will USB work?  This is the kind+ > of gadget I'd love to get working on VMS.  > M > Of course it will be a while before I'm able to get all the pieces in place  > to upgrade to 8.3. >  >                 Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 23:46:38 GMT  From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: USB hampster , Message-ID: <eg1h4u02b2d@enews3.newsguy.com>  + Steven M. Schweda <sms@antinode.org> wrote:  > From: healyzh@aracnet.com   I > > Of course it will be a while before I'm able to get all the pieces in  > > place to upgrade to 8.3.  . >    Is it time for a new Hobbyist CD-ROM yet?  F I for one think it is definitely time, how long has it been since V3? G Though I really wish they'd figure out a way to let us Hobbyists simply J download the stuff.  I've been getting a new ConDist off eBay every couple0 years, but the supply seems to have dried up :^(   J Having said that, a new Hobbyist CD, is not what's holding me up.  I don'tF believe RDB supports 8.3 yet, and I need to make several other changesJ before I can upgrade.  My big problem is moving off of using Appletalk forL printing and serving up the drives to my Mac.  Of course once I'm done I can also upgrade my Mac's OS.   L Basically I need to make the time to move the Mac specific data files off ofJ the VMS box, get a Ethernet to Parallel printserver box hooked up (insteadC of Ethertalk to Localtalk), then upgrade and have the fun of making  everything work once more.    L I'd also like to take some time and decide how best to serve files up to theB Mac from now on.  Every other solution seems to have its problems.  	 	 	  Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 00:56:37 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 7 Subject: Re: VMS 8.3 upgrade problem: JTQUOTA too small [ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0410062056360001@dialup-4.233.149.140.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>   5 In article <452315CB.1B095DEB@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:     I >Obviously, those who install from CD cannot easily update the parameters I >that are cast in polycarbonate (can't say "stone or concrete because CDs # >aren't made of rock or cement :-).   H You should be able to boot conversationally and change system parameters on the way up.  ? >>> boot -fl 0,1 dqa0   ! adjust as needed for your environment   9 You stop at the SYSBOOT prompt and can change parameters.     < >Must one REALLY *boot* from the CD media to do an upgrade ?   Of course not.  C You can boot from a copy of the CD on a hard drive, or a copy on an G infoserver, without fiddling with the kitting.  Either of those options > lets you change system parameters in a more permanent way than conversational boot from a CD.   >If one wereH >to book from the system disk and then just invoke the upgrade procedure >from the CD, would this work ?   J Not sure about that.  For most PCSI kits, something like that would work. G But the OS is an unusual kit.  I'd look in the PSCI manual and see what @ logical names are available to point PCSI in unusual directions.  J I wouldn't be surprised if that could be made to work, but I also wouldn'tF be surprised to find hidden assumptions that the boot disk and the kit disk are the same.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:30:16 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: VMS and Qualstar + Message-ID: <45246028.73888119@comcast.net>    "James P. Byrne" wrote:  > G > My apologies for the off topic posting, but I cannot think of another E > way to ask this question.  Does anyone know of a site that is using H > QualStar tape libraries with VMS?  I have a six drive library on a SANI > fabric, but my cluster only sees one tape drive - $2$MGA0:.  I can talk > > to it, and am looking to buy the MRU utility to see if I canJ > manage/manipulate the library, but I'm getting the sick feeling that I'm< > the only person on the planet that has this configuration.  B In the fibre channelworld, one typically needs to deal with device mapping as well as zoning.   Something else to consider.   A Also, if you still lack an answer, try posting to the comp.os.vms & newsgroup. This reply is cross-posted.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:03:50 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 6 Subject: Who pays court costs for HP's accused felons?+ Message-ID: <eg1ekp$qhe$1@naig.caltech.edu>   > Two big HP names are now charged with felonies by California's: Attorney General.  Is HP going to foot the bill for Dunn's? defense? How about Hunsacker, or any others charged later?  Can @ HP cover Dunn and throw some or all of the others to the wolves?  < Egads what a slime pit this is.  The institutional investors5 should fire the entire HP board and start over clean.    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2006 18:06:44 -0700  From: davidc@montagar.com : Subject: Re: Who pays court costs for HP's accused felons?A Message-ID: <1160010404.465591.84140@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    David Mathog wrote: @ > Two big HP names are now charged with felonies by California's< > Attorney General.  Is HP going to foot the bill for Dunn'sA > defense? How about Hunsacker, or any others charged later?  Can B > HP cover Dunn and throw some or all of the others to the wolves?  B They should, out of that golden parachute they got.  As for the PI firms, serves them right.   > > Egads what a slime pit this is.  The institutional investors7 > should fire the entire HP board and start over clean.   ) I'm sure we haven't heard the last of it.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.546 ************************