1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 10 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 556       Contents: A service to hobbyists) Re: adding a disk and putting it "online"  Re: Advice on Alphaserver 4100O Re: Compaq Alpahserver DS20 for sale Italy 2.5GB 550MHz 4MB L2 72GB uwSCSI raid . Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines6 Re: does Alphaserver DS10 have EV56 or later chip set?% Re: Fiorina Comments On Public Firing % Re: Fiorina Comments On Public Firing 4 Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week
 Re: LIBOTS
 Re: LIBOTS
 Re: LIBOTS Re: multinet - syn flood Re: multinet - syn floodH Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)P Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) week)we Re: SCSI COnfiguration Re: SCSI COnfiguration Re: SCSI COnfiguration5 Re: Testing for the presence of an attached IO device  Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:07:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: A service to hobbyists , Message-ID: <452B0040.78ECD9AE@teksavvy.com>  E If you're a hobbyist with a new alpha, and need to populate it with a B recent version of our favourite operating system, I may be able toF informally help. I have an eight hundred thirty divided by one hundred image that you could FTP.   G Contact me privately at jfmezei::vaxination.ca to set things up even if 6 you have an aluminium baseball bat reserved to hit me.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:57:04 -0500 . From: Bob Blunt <RobertDOTblunt@digitalDOTcom>2 Subject: Re: adding a disk and putting it "online": Message-ID: <U8SdnfX6cqG5EbfYnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Michael Moroney wrote:2 > Bob Blunt <RobertDOTblunt@digitalDOTcom> writes: >  > K >>console.  If you toss a new SCSI drive into a VAX without power cycling,  H >>you typically have to go thru a cycle of HALT, UNJAM and INIT for the I >>device to show up properly to the console before it shows up with SHOW  F >>DEVICE.  In my experience the same has held true for most all Alpha . >>consoles with direct-connected SCSI devices. >  > I > That hasn't been my experience at all.  The console appears to poll the K > SCSI bus once every couple of minutes.  If I add a SCSI drive to an alpha F > sitting at the >>> prompt it appears but not immediately.  Same if II > remove one, it disappears but not immediately.  Also if you have a SCSI G > cluster with one system on the shared bus booted and the other at the H > console prompt, you'll see periodic mount verifys, apparently when theG > system at the console prompt polls the SCSI bus and does something to  > upset the VMS system.  > F > Of course this probably depends on what model Alpha and the console  > firmware version.    Original poster is using VAX   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:42:48 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: Advice on Alphaserver 4100 : Message-ID: <cvGdnWD7qoq2BbfYnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:   8 > Not sure - the 4000s had more PCI slots that the 4100s >  > Steve  >  > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  >>etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  >>G >>>I'd probably stick with the PWS, or else pick the Alpha and its disk ; >>>cabs up and then barter them for something newer/bigger.  >>> F >>>The 4100s that I installed back in 1998 were limited in PCI slots - <snip>  H My memory grows DIMM; it may be I was thinking of 4000 vs. 4100 instead D of two flavors of 4100.  It's been two years since I last saw those 6 boxes and longer than that since I had to open one up.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2006 14:14:17 -0700 # From: "Vanjkos" <vanjkos@gmail.com> X Subject: Re: Compaq Alpahserver DS20 for sale Italy 2.5GB 550MHz 4MB L2 72GB uwSCSI raidB Message-ID: <1160428457.025006.232500@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   I also wanted to add this linkB http://www.psds.com/products/servers/alpha/ds20.htm#System_Pricing  ; Please take a look to the prices, and make your comparison.    Regards, Vanja.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:02:32 -0500  From: Jeff <@>7 Subject: Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines , Message-ID: <452a72a1$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote:  > Hello, > F >   Three of us are attempting to use the debugger on our own machines > and failing. >  > On our own machines:G >   run theProgram.exe - The GUI flashes up on the screen and goes away  > immediately.  E I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble. Below are some suggestions.     = >   debug/keep - The GUI comes up with an information message ; >       %DEBUG-I-VERSION: Expected VMSDEBUG.DAT version: 72 B >       We are running version 7.2, the vmsdebug.dat in the system > default directory doesG >       say it's version is 72.  Does this mean it can't find the .DAT?  > I'm not finding a 4 >       definition in the help messages for VERSION.  G This informational message is one that can be safely ignored. DEBUG is  L complaining about the version string inside the file SYS$LOGIN:VMSDEBUG.DAT.    H > Is there some other log I can find information on why the debugger GUI > is not saying up on our  > own machines?   H Please temporarily disable the debugger's DECwindows interface and then  run your program:   "      $ define dbg$decw$display " "      $ run theProgram   D I expect that you will see some additional error messages that will B provide clues to the problem. Please post the results if you need  further assistance.    Thanks.    -Jeff   -HP OpenVMS DEBUG project leader   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:53:20 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)? Subject: Re: does Alphaserver DS10 have EV56 or later chip set? $ Message-ID: <egecs0$cd6$1@online.de>  H In article <45264222$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:    L > You can check this yourself with F$GETSYI("CPUTYPE") >= 8 where values are >  > 	 2	21064 " > 	 4	21066, 21068, 21066A, 21068A > 	 5	21164  > 	 6	21064A > 	 7	21164A  & $ write sys$output F$GETSYI("CPUTYPE") 5 ( $ pipe show cpu/full |sea sys$pipe 211646                 Type...........: EV56 (21164A), Pass 26                 Type...........: EV56 (21164A), Pass 2  & $ write sys$output F$GETSYI("hw_name"). DIGITAL Server 5000 Model 5305 6533A 5/533 4MB  C I'm pretty sure that 21164A is correct, so by your table the first  ' command should show "7" instead of "5".    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:26:13 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> . Subject: Re: Fiorina Comments On Public Firing+ Message-ID: <egeb96$alv$1@naig.caltech.edu>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > David Mathog wrote:  >> Neil Rieck wrote:K >>> Did anyone see Patty Dunn or Carly Firorina on "60 Minutes" last night. 0 >>> Yikes! What color is the sky in their world?6 >> Marmelade.  (Hint: "Lucy in the sky with diamonds") >>B >> Was I hallucinating or did Carly really say that her firing was >> unexpected??? > ( > Best to ease off the 'shrooms maybe... >   0 She didn't say "unexpected" exactly, but rather:  ?     She says she felt devastated and hurt by the sudden firing.   @     One reason she was so blindsided, she says, is because after<     five years of her leadership, the company was on a roll.   Here's the full transcript:   H    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/05/60minutes/main2069703.shtml  7 So I didn't get the quote quite right.  Clearly for her G it was unexpected if she felt it was "sudden" and she was "blindsided".   F Just amazing to see he go on about how the board really shouldn't haveH fired her, as she had done nothing wrong.  If that logic applies to her,C why not to the thousands of people SHE had fired, many of whom were D doing unimportant things like designing and building products for HP to sell?   Karma baby, karma.   Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:29:03 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> . Subject: Re: Fiorina Comments On Public FiringJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-6203B1.22290309102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  + In article <egdsp5$691$1@naig.caltech.edu>, )  David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:    > Neil Rieck wrote: L > > Did anyone see Patty Dunn or Carly Firorina on "60 Minutes" last night. 0 > > Yikes! What color is the sky in their world? > 5 > Marmelade.  (Hint: "Lucy in the sky with diamonds")  >   ; Somehow appropriate, given that LSD not only stood for the  F hallucinogenic substance, but Pounds, Shillings and Pence in the days , before decimalisation of currency in the UK.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2006 18:39:04 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week B Message-ID: <1160444344.021759.83850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   George Cook wrote:k > In article <1160339109.179071.145170@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > > Neil Rieck wrote: 4 > >> "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageB > >> news:1160315922.575301.159520@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > >> > Bill Todd wrote:  > >> > >> [...snip...]  > >> > >> > [...]  > >> >J > >> > I once went to a talk by Harlan Ellison and he stunned the audience< > >> > into silence by calling Star Wars crap. He was right. > >> > > >>M > >> I hold Harlan Ellison in high regard and hope he wasn't referring to the Q > >> last two Star Wars movies. But I have to admit that I always thought of Star @ > >> Wars as a futuristic fantasy rather than a science fiction. > > E > > OK. To be fair to Mr. Ellison: It was long, long ago, but in this H > > galaxy, not so far, far away! I'm pretty sure I heard him speak whenG > > there was only one Star Wars movie. Also, I haven't seen the latest K > > (earliest) three. Maybe they really are good, but I'm not interested. I G > > ceratinly never thought Mr. Todd would be interested, much less use H > > anything from them in a serious way. Yes, I can see Mr. Todd and the+ > > wookie hanging out together! ... Right.  > > 0 > >> p.s. he served as a consultant to Babylon 5 > > G > > I'll have to check out this "Babylon 5" stuff one day. Of course he H > > could have been a consultant and been ignored. Look at his Star TrekK > > episode, "The City on the Edge of Forever": It was supposedly rewritten I > > by DC Fontana at Roddenberry's request which also, supposedly, pissed ; > > off Harlan.  Still, I want to check out this Babylon 5.  > D > While he may be a good SF writer, Ellison apparently was unable toC > grasp a very basic concept about writing for a TV series set in a G > fictional universe:  any story set in such a universe must fit within F > the constraints of that universe.  The rewritting was needed to makeG > the story fit in the Star Trek universe.  Even with the rewritting it ? > is considered one of the best (if not the best) TOS episodes.   G I have seen every Star Trek TOS episode and this Ellison episode IS the D best, hands down, rewritten or otherwise. The story is always movingB forward. Drama, comedy, sci-fi, Star Trek, mind-blowing, and other3 things I can't think of offhand -- it's got it all!   
 > George Cook  > WVNET    AEF    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:20:55 +0200# From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de>  Subject: Re: LIBOTS 5 Message-ID: <egeaqv$1e1r$1@registered.motzarella.org>   7 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> schreef in bericht # news:op.tg5v0x1mtte90l@hyrrokkin... K On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 08:32:49 -0700, peteh <petr.havel@logicacmg.com> wrote:   3 > Hi, I have a program crashing with strange stack: = > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual < > address=0000000000003633, PC=FFFFFFFF808F98C4, PS=0000001B1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows I >   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs  > PC@ >  LIBOTS                                     0 00000000000218C4 > FFFFFFFF808F98C4* >  SERVER  SERVER_INPC  server_set_address@ >                                         28951 00000000000032E8 > 000000000007E458 > ...  > $ > Can anybody advise what LIBOTS is?  7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5933/5933PRO.HTML    Which compiler are you using?    >  > Thanks, Petr >     2 Fortran? IIRC that's where OTS was for, wasn't it?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:54:50 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: LIBOTS / Message-ID: <uGyWg.859$xE7.11@news.cpqcorp.net>    peteh wrote:  $ > Can anybody advise what LIBOTS is? >  > Thanks, Petr >   D LIBOTS is a set of low-level utility routines used by the GEM-based I compilers.  Don't confuse this with the public OTS$ routines that can be  8 found inside of LIBRTL. (Yeah, I know, it is confusing).  F The most popular LIBOTS routines are OTS$MOVE and OTS$MOVEM which are  used for things like memcpy().  I When I see ACCVIOs inside of LIBOTS, look at your memcpy()s (or whatever  D language you are using) to look for bad pointers or invalid lengths.   --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:59:33 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: LIBOTS * Message-ID: <452a71e3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   peteh wrote:3 > Hi, I have a program crashing with strange stack: = > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual < > address=0000000000003633, PC=FFFFFFFF808F98C4, PS=0000001B  P    Details of the ACCVIO are in the HELP/MESSAGE library, and the usual details N generated as parameters tell you what happened to trigger the error, and from O what instruction.  In this case, something from 808F98C4 tried to get at 3633,   and failed.   1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows I >   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs  > PC@ >  LIBOTS                                     0 00000000000218C4 > FFFFFFFF808F98C4* >  SERVER  SERVER_INPC  server_set_address@ >                                         28951 00000000000032E8 > 000000000007E458 > ...  > $ > Can anybody advise what LIBOTS is?  O    It's an OpenVMS library.  Variously translated as Object Time System, or as  M Object Time Service.  These are the OTS$ calls, routines which are typically  P hand-tuned compiler-level assists for frequently-called or performance-critical L sections of code; routines that various compilers can and do embed into the  generated code.   O    Look at line 28951 in your source listings for module SERVER_INPC (assuming  Q you have listings, but keeping those around is usually a good idea and often the  O preferred practice) and see what activity is occurring there, and what sort of  & OpenVMS routine is being called there.  P    If this is OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2, the failure looks to be in OTS$MOVES, a set I of memory move routines.  And that usually means that some call into the  N underlying OTS$ routine has bad or corrupted parameter(s) involved somewhere; M this is rarely a fault in the underlying OTS$ code, and rather more commonly  L some sort of garbage somewhere in the call around line 28951 in the calling 9 routine, or (obviously) somewhere upstream to line 28951.   O    If this is NOT your source code calling into the OTS$ routines, ring up the  N vendor/maintainer/supplier, and ask for their assistance.  This error usually O requires the assistance of whomever is holding the source code and (hopefully)  " the source code listings and maps.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:00:40 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>! Subject: Re: multinet - syn flood * Message-ID: <452a6414@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   rejoc wrote:" > Multinet V4.4 A-X, VMS AXP 7.3-2 > J > Suppose there are clients, trying to connect to the VMS/multinet system E > by initiating a socket connection with a SYN but not going further.   Q    This can also be a syn flood DoS/DDoS attack.  Are these your clients, or are  P these packets originating outside your network?  If the latter, a firewall with Q syn-related capabilities may be in order here.  (It can also obviously help with  G the former environment, too, though so can targeting and resolving the  F particular (mis)behaviour on the client(s) involved in the syn flood.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 23:32:44 +0200  From: rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> ! Subject: Re: multinet - syn flood 4 Message-ID: <452abffc$0$28341$426a74cc@news.free.fr>   Hoff Hoffman wrote : > rejoc wrote:# >> Multinet V4.4 A-X, VMS AXP 7.3-2  >>D >> Suppose there are clients, trying to connect to the VMS/multinet E >> system by initiating a socket connection with a SYN but not going   >> further.  > K >   This can also be a syn flood DoS/DDoS attack.  Are these your clients,  K > or are these packets originating outside your network?  If the latter, a  H > firewall with syn-related capabilities may be in order here.  (It can F > also obviously help with the former environment, too, though so can I > targeting and resolving the particular (mis)behaviour on the client(s)   > involved in the syn flood.) F Actually they are our clients... but coming through the Internet, the F problem seems to be "time related" (seems to be that there is a timer F somewhere on the client that considers that 400ms is more than enough  for the syn-ack to come back).I There is already a firewall with those "syn-related" capabilities and it  H really helps but there are still a few "bad" (unterminated) connections E that arrive on the VMS system. We are investigating why some clients  I sometime don't go to the end of the process of creating a proper socket,  ? but we need to take some measures to ensure that some specific  G connections can be established almost 100% of the time... We have very  % few access to the application itself.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2006 12:05:04 -0700 ; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) C Message-ID: <1160420704.249401.147890@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:} > In article <8660a3a10610081907n532fe3d8g4156a135bba5da0b@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:  > > N > > Correct me if I'm wrong (and, given the subject matter, I'm sure that I'llL > > be subjected to Massive Correcting should it be in order) but didn't the > > original series  > > E > > Not Do Too Well In The Ratings, Thus Leading To Its Cancellation?  > D >    Yes.  NBC stopped paying for good writers sometime early in theD >    second season.  The predictable happened, and was blamed on theE >    Friday night time slot.  Fox proved that wrong when they put the 2 >    then new X Files in a Friday night time slot.  A True, the bad stories were a big part of the problem but it was a G different era in TV.  Start Trek died on Friday nights in 1969, X-Files D survived it 24 years later in 1993. There were some major changes inD viewing habits in that time.  Plus at the time Fox was a new networkG that only operated on Friday nights, Saturdays and Sundays.  They had a B much lower audience share expectation than NBC had as a mainstreamG network.  Even now shows like Battlestar Galactica are considered great C successes with a share rating of 1.5-3.0 on Sci-Fi, yet such a show F wouldn't last 3 weeks on the major networks and would have been dumped almost as early in 1969.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2006 19:11:29 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) C Message-ID: <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  > Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <8660a3a10610081907n532fe3d8g4156a135bba5da0b@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:  > > > P > > > Correct me if I'm wrong (and, given the subject matter, I'm sure that I'llN > > > be subjected to Massive Correcting should it be in order) but didn't the > > > original series  > > > G > > > Not Do Too Well In The Ratings, Thus Leading To Its Cancellation?  > > F > >    Yes.  NBC stopped paying for good writers sometime early in theF > >    second season.  The predictable happened, and was blamed on theG > >    Friday night time slot.  Fox proved that wrong when they put the 4 > >    then new X Files in a Friday night time slot. > C > True, the bad stories were a big part of the problem but it was a I > different era in TV.  Start Trek died on Friday nights in 1969, X-Files F > survived it 24 years later in 1993. There were some major changes inF > viewing habits in that time.  Plus at the time Fox was a new networkI > that only operated on Friday nights, Saturdays and Sundays.  They had a D > much lower audience share expectation than NBC had as a mainstreamI > network.  Even now shows like Battlestar Galactica are considered great E > successes with a share rating of 1.5-3.0 on Sci-Fi, yet such a show H > wouldn't last 3 weeks on the major networks and would have been dumped > almost as early in 1969.  > Hmmm. I've always wondered why, with the time-slot theory, SNLF (Saturday Night Live) did so well in its "bad" time slot. If potentialE Trekkers were out on Friday night, wouldn't potential SNL fans be out B on Saturday night? So I never totally bought the time-slot theory.E Roddenberry did at least consider it the final nail in the coffin, if ? nothing else. I guess it was a combination of all of the above.   G Back to NBC: NBC canceled the original Jeopardy! TV show when it was at B its ratings peak according to the Jeopardy! book, just because theE networks like to redecorate (I think that was the word that was used) D their schedules from time to time. So NBC did other stupid things --E well, at least this one. (Hmmm, methings there must be something more  to it.)   G But NBC did the opposite with Late Night with Conan O'Brien.  According - to a recent Reader's Digest (September 2006):   G "It was legendary SNL creator Lorne Michaels who recommended [Conan] as @ Letterman's replacement. Early reviews for Late Night With ConanE O'Brien were scathing; ratings were low. NBC canceled the show [!!!], G but with no ready replacement, O'Brien and company were allowed to limp < along. Eventually, they found their rhythm -- and audience."  E And as someone from the show once said they really didn't know how to 0 do a show at first, but they eventually learned.   Sometimes NBC gets it right!  C OK, some of Conan's skits are pretty gross. I love the "In the year G 2000" bit, though. And the bit with the president (PM?) of Finland, and  other various stuff he's done.  B Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweetE revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one!    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:01:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) , Message-ID: <452B1B20.9D67DA35@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:@ > Hmmm. I've always wondered why, with the time-slot theory, SNL; > (Saturday Night Live) did so well in its "bad" time slot.     H Nothing else to replace it with. And in the past, there was nothing else. on the other networks against wich to compete.    E SNL did get very close to being cancelled a few times, especially for E the season where Lorne Michaels had been let go and the original cast F left in droves, with the new guy hiring people of much lower calibre. C When Michaels returned, he rescued the show and brought in new cast C members (Dana Carvey, Mike Myers and company) to relaunch the show.   H For prime time, it is also a question of internal politics. One producerB fights to get a prime time slot and will work hard to convince theE network heads to dump the show currently occupying that time slot. "I G can get better ratings than that program", so NBC kills "that program"    < But outside of prime time, there is far less fierce internalD competition. "Tonight show" can't be cancelled, it is sacred, like aD historical building. And "late night with XXXXX" is a lorne michales? production. Michaels (a canadian BTW) has a lot of pull at NBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:17:48 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) week)we G Message-ID: <7LadnWXCAP0ye7fYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote:   ...   E > After reading about how some perceive B5, and with the prospect of  K > avoiding endless commercial breaks, I'm thinking about purchasing the B5   > series on DVD.  4 I heartily recommend it, with the following caveats:  G The series pilot was the 90-minute (plus commercials) "The Gathering",  H and should be watched first.  The TV movie "In The Beginning", however, G might be better watched after seeing the entire set of TV episodes, as  C should "A Call To Arms" (the precursor to a follow-on series named  A "Crusade" which suffered by comparison to B-5, though might have  9 improved with time, as B5 did, had it had the chance to).   B I don't know whether the DVD set will present the episodes in the E precise order that eventually was determined to be the 'correct' one  I (some episodes got delayed in production and were originally aired a bit  ; out of sequence), but it shouldn't really matter very much.   G Don't get discouraged during season 1:  it's pretty uneven in quality,  F especially for the first half or so, though on average improves as it H progresses (and while you could conceivably skip ahead, you'd only wind B up coming back later to watch it anyway, I suspect - and it's not @ actually bad, just suffers by comparison with what comes later).  H Season 2 is pretty uniformly better, but also a bit uneven.  As soon as E you start season 3, hang onto your seat.  Season 4 is almost as good   (though uneven in spots).   B The series was canceled during (very early in?) season 4 (perhaps F connected with the collapse of its syndication network PTEN), so what H was meant to be the last two years of a 5-year storyline got compressed G into a single season, but still comes off well.  Then TNT picked it up  F and season 5 happened after all, minus at least one major participant D who had already made other plans:  just try to ignore the bumps and F enjoy the fact that another year of episodes (albeit somewhat uneven)  eventually got created.   I The TV movie "Thirdspace" (logically occurring after episode 8 of season  G 4) pretty much sucks:  I have the impression that Straczynski may have  H used it to assuage the network executives who were demanding more fight G scenes and alien sex (plus a touch of Lovecraftian horror, though that  F may have been his own idea), so that they'd keep off his back on that E score in the series proper.  I wasn't all that impressed with the TV  I movie "River of Souls", either, and IIRC "The Legend of the Rangers" got  H mixed reviews; in any event, both fit into the sequence just before the H final episode of the series, so you can make up your mind then just how  greedy you are for more.  I Despite these caveats, I suspect that you'll find B5 very well worth the  F watching and (after taking a break) re-watching (since you'll miss so : much - especially foreshadowing - the first time through).  6 I envy your opportunity to meet it for the first time.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:56:19 -0500 # From: Alex Zorrilla <apz@zxeng.com>  Subject: Re: SCSI COnfiguration , Message-ID: <ege2fi012u4@enews4.newsguy.com>  G Let me preface this by saying that it applies to my knowledge of PC's,  E but not to Alphas.  Still, I think the same basic concepts may still  	 apply....   F For PC's, the issue of PC100/old PC133/new PC133 is not one of speed, G but rather, one of memory density.  That is, the PC100 spec allowed up  G to a 16Mb density (think 16 MB/chip).  The first PC133 chips also used  F the same 16Mb density, but as manufacturing improved, the density was  increased to 32Mb (32 MB/chip).   B At that point, it became very confusing, because some motherboard H chipsets supported only up to 16 MB/chip (such as the Intel 440BX), but E others supported up to 32 MB/chip (like the VIA Apollo Pro133).  You  = needed to have a good idea of the chipset support inside the  A motherboard, and even then, a BIOS update was sometimes required.   I To take an example, take a 256 MB DIMM.  If it has 16 chips on it (or 18  I in the case of ECC), then it will most likely work in a machine designed  I for PC100, because the chips are 16 MB/chip (regardless of whether it is  I PC100 or PC133 RAM).  On the other hand, if the DIMM has only 8 chips on  E it (or 9 for ECC), as is the case for most newer PC133, then it will  A *not* work in a PC100 computer, because the motherboard's memory  0 controller cannot handle the 32 MB/chip density.  I This, of course, leads to situations like the one Rich describes.  Older  H PC133 works OK, but as time goes on, new PC133 DIMMs purchased from the I store do not seem to work anymore.  It is because newer DIMMs have moved  E on to a higher density -- one that is too high for the motherboard's   memory controller to handle.  A Note that the PC100 spec officially limited memory density to 16  C MB/chip, so you should not run into that problem if you stick with  I memory officially labeled PC100.  Then again, a few generic modules have  G been known to break this rule, so it may pay to ask how many chips are  $ on the module, and then do the math.       Rich Jordan wrote:! > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  >> Mister Q wrote:I >>> I have managed to drag an old PWS500au, kicking and screaming back to ! >>> useful live as a VMS MAchine.  >>> J >>> It was one of those that only booted the IDE CDROM so, I added a KZPDA  >>> and RRD4x to get it going... >>> F >>> It now has two KZPDAs- one for the RRD4x, and one connected to the >>> internal >>> J >>> I also have a BA364 with a couple of 4GB Drives, and a TLZ06 (although+ >>> the internal CD for it has disappears).  >>> 5 >>> Question 1. Which SCSI bus should I attach it to.  >>> H >> Usually due to SCSI bus length limitations (and card design) it's notH >> recommended that you use both the internal and external connectors onJ >> the KZDPA at the same time.  So use the one for any internal drives andH >> use the other for the external BA364.  You can, however, use both theJ >> internal 68-pin and 50-pin connectors simultaneously.  In mine I have aJ >> 50-68pin adapter for the CD-Rom drive so it goes on the same bus as theF >> internal disks.  The KZPDA is designed so that there is not a speedB >> penalty for using both narrow and wide devices on the same bus. >>H >>> Question 2. I have 192 MB memory on this. ouch... This appears to beJ >>> PC100 generic PC type memory - what are the constraints about what can >>> be plugged in... >>> G >> Like most DEC systems on this era it takes 83Mhz ECC 3.3v Registered F >> DIMMS.  Fortunately you can use PC100's and apparently from anotherF >> post PC133's.  I have a PSW500au with 4 Infineon HYS72V32201GR-8-C2G >> sticks.  They are 256MB PC100 CL2 ECC Registered SDRAM.  Probably if I >> you go with the PC133's you can get by with CL3.  The maximum size you D >> can use is 256MB sticks and under VMS you can only use 1GB worth,H >> although 1.5GB will fit. Do a Google search of the newsgroup for "PWSJ >> memory" and you will get a few articles about the problems.  The systemB >> will run, but it looks like that once you load the thing up andD >> actually start using the las .5GB then problems may start.  YMMV. >> >> > H > Also be aware that PC133 memory changed over time.  The earlier memoryF > would run at PC100 (and slightly slower) speeds, but the later chipsI > had problems running that much below their rated speed.  I used to have I > to work on a number of P2/400 systems that used PC100 memory, even some I > DEC boxes that used ECC DIMMs; we topped them all off using PC133 DIMMs F > when they were cheaper than 100s for a while, but towards the end ofG > PC133 'new system' availability, new PC133 DIMMs would no longer work  > in the older boxes.  > H > If you can find PC100 memory of the correct type you're more likely toE > be successful; it might not be too easy to determine the vintage of  > used PC133 at this point.  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:51:46 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: SCSI COnfiguration , Message-ID: <egenai$2av$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  z In article <8660a3a10610090330j61759d0pe8b8fb3fcffbb8ed@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:+ >------=_Part_153556_30057111.1160389809004 < >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Disposition: inline > D >On 8 Oct 2006 22:06:15 -0700, Mister Q <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote: >>H >> I have managed to drag an old PWS500au, kicking and screaming back to  >> useful live as a VMS MAchine. >>I >> It was one of those that only booted the IDE CDROM so, I added a KZPDA  >> and RRD4x to get it going...  >>E >> It now has two KZPDAs- one for the RRD4x, and one connected to the  >> internal  >>I >> I also have a BA364 with a couple of 4GB Drives, and a TLZ06 (although * >> the internal CD for it has disappears). >>4 >> Question 1. Which SCSI bus should I attach it to. >  > ; >The one where the internal CD doesn't disappear, probably.  > E >Question 2. I have 192 MB memory on this. ouch... This appears to be I >> PC100 generic PC type memory - what are the constraints about what can  >> be plugged in...  >  > L >It'll hold up to 1.5 GB, but under VMS, will only use 1 GB. {At least thoseM >are the limitations on a PW433au, which is one of my machines, and the one I 
 >know about.)  >   % That's not a limitation I'm aware of.   M I have 1088 MB in my PWS600au which VMS recognises just fine - and I'm pretty M sure it recognised it all before I upgraded the system from being a PWS433au.     @               System Memory Resources on 10-OCT-2006 00:38:11.71  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (1.06GB)            139264      119177       18797        1290    
 $ anal/sys   OpenVMS system analyzer    SDA> clue config   System Configuration:  ---------------------  System Information: I System Type   Digital Personal WorkStation              Primary CPU ID 00 K Cycle Time    1.67 nsec (598 MHz)                       Pagesize       8192  Byte   Memory Configuration: N Cluster      PFN Start      PFN Count           Range (MByte)            UsageP  #00               0            236            0.0 MB -        1.8 MB    ConsoleO  #01             236         139027            1.8 MB -     1088.0 MB    System P  #02          139263              1         1088.0 MB -     1088.0 MB    Console    K The system originally had 64MB of memory in it before I added an extra 1GB. L I can't imagine any reason why VMS wouldn't see the full 1.5GB if I replaced" the 64MB with an additional 512MB.    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2006 17:33:27 -0700 ; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: SCSI COnfiguration B Message-ID: <1160440407.226697.35360@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: | > In article <8660a3a10610090330j61759d0pe8b8fb3fcffbb8ed@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:- > >------=_Part_153556_30057111.1160389809004 > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed" > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Content-Disposition: inline > > F > >On 8 Oct 2006 22:06:15 -0700, Mister Q <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote: > >>J > >> I have managed to drag an old PWS500au, kicking and screaming back to" > >> useful live as a VMS MAchine. > >>K > >> It was one of those that only booted the IDE CDROM so, I added a KZPDA ! > >> and RRD4x to get it going...  > >>G > >> It now has two KZPDAs- one for the RRD4x, and one connected to the 
 > >> internal  > >>K > >> I also have a BA364 with a couple of 4GB Drives, and a TLZ06 (although , > >> the internal CD for it has disappears). > >>6 > >> Question 1. Which SCSI bus should I attach it to. > >  > > = > >The one where the internal CD doesn't disappear, probably.  > > G > >Question 2. I have 192 MB memory on this. ouch... This appears to be K > >> PC100 generic PC type memory - what are the constraints about what can  > >> be plugged in...  > >  > > N > >It'll hold up to 1.5 GB, but under VMS, will only use 1 GB. {At least thoseO > >are the limitations on a PW433au, which is one of my machines, and the one I  > >know about.)  > >  > ' > That's not a limitation I'm aware of.  > O > I have 1088 MB in my PWS600au which VMS recognises just fine - and I'm pretty O > sure it recognised it all before I upgraded the system from being a PWS433au.  >  > B >               System Memory Resources on 10-OCT-2006 00:38:11.71 > N > Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedN >   Main Memory (1.06GB)            139264      119177       18797        1290 >  >  > $ anal/sys >  > OpenVMS system analyzer  >  > SDA> clue config >  > System Configuration:  > ---------------------  > System Information: K > System Type   Digital Personal WorkStation              Primary CPU ID 00 M > Cycle Time    1.67 nsec (598 MHz)                       Pagesize       8192  > Byte >  > Memory Configuration: P > Cluster      PFN Start      PFN Count           Range (MByte)            UsageR >  #00               0            236            0.0 MB -        1.8 MB    ConsoleQ >  #01             236         139027            1.8 MB -     1088.0 MB    System R >  #02          139263              1         1088.0 MB -     1088.0 MB    Console >  > M > The system originally had 64MB of memory in it before I added an extra 1GB. N > I can't imagine any reason why VMS wouldn't see the full 1.5GB if I replaced$ > the 64MB with an additional 512MB. >  >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  @ It'll recognize it no problem.  There were just a few reports ofE general flakiness once you started using over 1GB of physical memory. D Maybe it was the particular system or the memory - no way of telling now.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:06:27 -0400* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>> Subject: Re: Testing for the presence of an attached IO device, Message-ID: <452a4954$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   > Villy Madsen wrote: I > > Is there a way of verifying if a specified IO address is valid  (i.e.  has  > > something attached) ?? > > & > > Can I use the PROBE instruction ?? > > K > > Is there a system service that I can call to do that - although I could I > > probably still scribble up the 4 or 5 instructions of macro needed to  build  > > a subroutine.... >   J As Steve essentially asked - what are you trying to do?  Are you on a VAX?7 An Alpha?  What Bus?  To a lesser degree - what device?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:31:34 -0400* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: USB hampster * Message-ID: <452a4f37@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  @ "Tom Garcia" <tgarcia-REMOVE-THIS@hivemind.org> wrote in message1 news:4525569d$0$624$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...    > L > Does this mean VMS uses the firmware's enumeration of PCI devices, or only* > those devices to which certain resources  K On Alpha there is no "firmware" discovered hardware.  Using the family type G code in the HWRPB, the platform support code knows how to find the root F addresses of all the busses and the non-PCI onboard hardware (like the$ floppy controller and serial ports).  J On Itanium the firmware (ACPI) provides enumeration of motherboard devicesG without the OS needing to know the type of the system.  So the firmware H provides the root addresses of busses and non-PCI devices without the OSK needing built-in knowledge about the platform - just knowledge about busses  and devices.  H PCI busses themselves are not enumerated by the firmware (or rather, theK enumeration isn't provided to the OS).  This is because PCI bus enumeration I is standardized.  There *is* some possible enumeration provided to the OS H for PCI devices that is related to hot-swap slots - since prior to PCI-e# hot-swap isn't really a "standard".   "  - I saw a post briefly mentioningK > DMA - have been allocated by it? A post from 1998ish suggests it does its D > own enumeration (in a discussion of its using breadth- rather thanG > depth-first). Or, recalling PC chipset documentation, it is sometimes J > possible to hide a device's configuration space in software - the effect isG > to prevent PCI IDSEL assertion; maybe the DS10L's chipset has similar H > ability exploited by the firmware. Or maybe the controller been put to some% > sort of sleep before VMS is booted.  >   C The USB is part of the core chip logic, my guess is that there is a L mechanism to disable the device so that it does not respond to configuration space.  G > Curiosity would demand I boot e.g. Linux, NetBSD and find out what it  sees, G > though it'll be a fortnight before I can play with my shiny new DS10L  again L > :/. I guess the question is, "Can it be unhidden?" and it'd be a matter ofH > executing the appropriate code sufficiently early, assuming there's noJ > generalised AUTOCONFIGURE ALL which rescans the whole PCI bus on Alphas.F > Even if the answer is "no, no way," it'd be interesting to know why. >   J I believe that it can be "unhidden" by changing a SRM variable and issuing an INIT.  F Neither the Alpha or Itanium bus support code re-probes the PCI bussesI (looks at config space) when SYSMAN IO AUTO is issued.  This is only done E during the boot.  If we supported PCI hot-swap, then we would need to J re-probe.  Instead, the autoconfig logic looks at the BUSSARRAY structuresL that are hung off each ADP that contains the information that was found whenD the bus was originally scanned - and if it finds a device that isn't@ configured - it attempts to configure it.  When it finds certainC controllers - like a SCSI or FC controller - it invokes a secondary I bus-specific module that does re-poll the secondary bus (which is how you - can see new SCSI disks or tapes for example).    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:40:40 -0400* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: USB hampster , Message-ID: <452a5159$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  @ "Tom Garcia" <tgarcia-REMOVE-THIS@hivemind.org> wrote in message1 news:4525569d$0$624$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...   L It just occured to me to complete the configuration logic description... USBI is a seperate animal from the standard configuration logic because of the L inherent nature of dynamic device arrival and departure.  The USB controllerL itself is enumerated like any other PCI device.  A USB port driver is loadedK for the controller by SYSMAN IO AUTO.  But a command file in system startup I runs and when it finds a USB port driver, it loads additional drivers and E starts an detached process called the UCM (USB Configuration Manager) J Server.  When a USB device is attached, the HUB driver with potential helpG from the HID (Human Interface Device) driver sends a message to the UCM J server describing the new device.  The UCM server then looks up the deviceG in the permanent USB device database (devices that have previously been K seen, configured and given a persistant name), and loads/connects a driver. K If the device isn't in the permanent database it looks it up, names it, and I loads and connects the driver (in V8.3 it will automatically do this, and ) automatically make the device permanent).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:57:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: USB hampster , Message-ID: <452AEFDB.45E52B54@teksavvy.com>   Forrest Kenney wrote:  > E >         The fimrware hid it on the DS10 and while it is possible to & > get it back I don't know the magic.   H Well, you better open up your magic book and find that magic incantation% to enable the USB port on the DS10L.    G Otherwise, you can expect a large group of DSL10L hugging  hobbyists to E chain themselves to the entrance of ZKO and prevent all deliveries of 9 coffee and food to ZKO until the issue has been resolved.    :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:16:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: USB hampster , Message-ID: <452AF45F.E5AFE26C@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote:L > Server.  When a USB device is attached, the HUB driver with potential helpI > from the HID (Human Interface Device) driver sends a message to the UCM L > server describing the new device.  The UCM server then looks up the deviceI > in the permanent USB device database (devices that have previously been M > seen, configured and given a persistant name), and loads/connects a driver. M > If the device isn't in the permanent database it looks it up, names it, and K > loads and connects the driver (in V8.3 it will automatically do this, and + > automatically make the device permanent).    Thanks for the description.   F Question: when you plug in a camera for instance, instead of loading a< driver, could the UCM server actually start an application ?     Another question:   D How do those keychain flash drives operate ? I take it there is someH sort of a CPU in them that can process USB requests and return data fromC the "drive" ? From the host's point of view, does it issue requests F simuilar to MSCP ("give me block X") ? Or is there a much mre intimate@ protocol between the host driver/application and the USB drive ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:53:59 -0400/ From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: USB hampster I Message-ID: <8660a3a10610091853y56ec6a14r7b8384e21e3e47d1@mail.gmail.com>   ( ------=_Part_1038_22421933.1160445239752; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   : On 10/9/06, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >  > FredK wrote:I > > Server.  When a USB device is attached, the HUB driver with potential  > helpK > > from the HID (Human Interface Device) driver sends a message to the UCM G > > server describing the new device.  The UCM server then looks up the  > deviceK > > in the permanent USB device database (devices that have previously been G > > seen, configured and given a persistant name), and loads/connects a 	 > driver. K > > If the device isn't in the permanent database it looks it up, names it,  > and I > > loads and connects the driver (in V8.3 it will automatically do this,  > and - > > automatically make the device permanent).  >  > Thanks for the description.  > H > Question: when you plug in a camera for instance, instead of loading a> > driver, could the UCM server actually start an application ? >  >  > Another question:  > F > How do those keychain flash drives operate ? I take it there is someJ > sort of a CPU in them that can process USB requests and return data fromE > the "drive" ? From the host's point of view, does it issue requests H > simuilar to MSCP ("give me block X") ? Or is there a much mre intimateB > protocol between the host driver/application and the USB drive ? >      jf, I refer you here.   8 http://computer.howstuffworks.com/removable-storage9.htm   WWWebb --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ( ------=_Part_1038_22421933.1160445239752+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   A<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/9/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">JF Mezei</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com">jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> FredK wrote:<br>&gt; Server.&nbsp;&nbsp;When a USB device is attached, the HUB driver with potential help<br>&gt; from the HID (Human Interface Device) driver sends a message to the UCM<br>&gt; server describing the new device.&nbsp;&nbsp;The UCM server then looks up the device <br>&gt; in the permanent USB device database (devices that have previously been<br>&gt; seen, configured and given a persistant name), and loads/connects a driver.<br>&gt; If the device isn't in the permanent database it looks it up, names it, and <br>&gt; loads and connects the driver (in V8.3 it will automatically do this, and<br>&gt; automatically make the device permanent).<br><br>Thanks for the description.<br><br>Question: when you plug in a camera for instance, instead of loading a  <br>driver, could the UCM server actually start an application ?<br><br><br>Another question:<br><br>How do those keychain flash drives operate ? I take it there is some<br>sort of a CPU in them that can process USB requests and return data from  <br>the &quot;drive&quot; ? From the host's point of view, does it issue requests<br>simuilar to MSCP (&quot;give me block X&quot;) ? Or is there a much mre intimate<br>protocol between the host driver/application and the USB drive ?  <br></blockquote></div><br><br>jf, I refer you here.<br><br><a href="http://computer.howstuffworks.com/removable-storage9.htm">http://computer.howstuffworks.com/removable-storage9.htm</a><br clear="all"><br>WWWebb<br>-- <br> Ajilon Consulting<br>Site resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com  * ------=_Part_1038_22421933.1160445239752--   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2006 13:12:24 -0700  From: exhp_openvmser@yahoo.com! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India C Message-ID: <1160424744.889008.110340@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    VMSguy,    Sorry about this...   B Sadly for VMS and all the loyal customers this is what you will beD seeing for the support of the future. They have given WFR notices toD 1/2 of the front line support team, all of the strongest VMSer folksE will be leaving next week. In the meantime all calls are being routed G to the team in Bangalore India (about 19 or 10) all who had a sum total E of 4 weeks of training (true, not their fault...HP just wanted to cut C training time).  The rest of the front line will be gone in January E (rumor has it) along with the support team for VMS in Canada (Sitel). F There are still old-timers on the back line support but they will only  handle calls that India can not.  C As an old VMS person who has been gone awhile but still has contact C with many old friends I can tell you this sickens all of us. It has F demoralized many old timers that loved VMS and REALLY LOVED supportingE customers. HP doesnt care because VMS is no longer a cash cow. If you ? are really mad about this you can try sending complaints to the C top....I doubt if Mark Hurd cares much though. The top CEO salaries C must be paid somehow.  There are many good VMS people out there and E hopefully companys that still use it may want to hire them instead of = pay the big support $$$ to HP....vote with your feet and your  pocketbook...it may help.    Good Luck !    exHP_OpenVMSer    
 VMSguy wrote: J > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 > it one bit.  > G > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of : > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > E > Simply a bunch of idiots with a language barrier.  Ask for a simple E > dial-in for a crash analysis and I get the run around of "is this a E > hardware or software issue"  - Hell I do not know, that is why I am H > making the call - you dial-in and you tell me what the problems - I am9 > paying you support.  They even lost my contract number.  > J > Mind you, I would love to add more colorful metaphors to this thread!  I" > am not happy about this service. > I > I called 3 hours ago and I am still waiting for an e-mail response with C > instructions on what I need to do with the crash dump file (FTP I 
 > suppose)...  > F > No offense to India - I work with some people from India that are on? > their toes - they live here in the states - maybe that is the - > difference.  They share common interests...  > H > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us> > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > ; > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 23:15:30 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-87E0A1.23153009102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  + In article <4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net>, *  bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  I > And you would actually trust these bozos to logon to your system with a  > FIELD/SYSTEM account?  >   E Going back some years to the first time I was asked by a DEC support  E person to give them dial in access, I was *most*  impressed by their  G professionalism. The guy even thought to disable FIELD once done, just  3 in case I wasn't there at the time to do it myself.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:07:49 +0200 ; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 9 Message-ID: <452abb44$0$10020$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   . "VMSguy" <vmsguy@comcast.net> wrote in message$ news:452A7AB4.7000508@comcast.net...J > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 > it one bit.  > G > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of : > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > E > Simply a bunch of idiots with a language barrier.  Ask for a simple E > dial-in for a crash analysis and I get the run around of "is this a E > hardware or software issue"  - Hell I do not know, that is why I am H > making the call - you dial-in and you tell me what the problems - I am9 > paying you support.  They even lost my contract number.  > J > Mind you, I would love to add more colorful metaphors to this thread!  I" > am not happy about this service. > I > I called 3 hours ago and I am still waiting for an e-mail response with C > instructions on what I need to do with the crash dump file (FTP I 
 > suppose)...  > F > No offense to India - I work with some people from India that are on? > their toes - they live here in the states - maybe that is the - > difference.  They share common interests...  > H > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us> > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > ; > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.  >   9 I'm a little biased.....but try http://www.brudenossg.com    OSSG = On-Shore Systems Group      >        --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:02:35 -0500 ! From: VMSguy <vmsguy@comcast.net> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India * Message-ID: <452AC6FB.6000102@comcast.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0205090600090105060800059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   H I usually set the FIELD account with a new password and pre-expired for 2 the next day - as a "forget to DisUser" safeguard.  6 No, I did not have to allow them access to the system.   Paul Sture wrote:   , >In article <4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net>,+ > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  >  >    > I >>And you would actually trust these bozos to logon to your system with a  >>FIELD/SYSTEM account?  >> >>     >> > F >Going back some years to the first time I was asked by a DEC support F >person to give them dial in access, I was *most*  impressed by their H >professionalism. The guy even thought to disable FIELD once done, just 4 >in case I wasn't there at the time to do it myself. >  >    >   & --------------020509060009010506080005) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">    <title></title>  </head> ' <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> G I usually set the FIELD account with a new password and pre-expired for 6 the next day - as a "forget to DisUser" safeguard.<br> <br>: No, I did not have to allow them access to the system.<br> <br> Paul Sture wrote:<br>  <blockquote G  cite="midpaul.sture.nospam-87E0A1.23153009102006@mac.sture.homeip.net" 
  type="cite">    <pre wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net">&lt;4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net&gt;</a>, q  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu">bill@cs.uofs.edu</a> (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:      </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">X     <pre wrap="">And you would actually trust these bozos to logon to your system with a FIELD/SYSTEM account?   
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->E Going back some years to the first time I was asked by a DEC support  E person to give them dial in access, I was *most*  impressed by their  G professionalism. The guy even thought to disable FIELD once done, just  3 in case I wasn't there at the time to do it myself.      </pre>
 </blockquote>  </body>  </html>   ( --------------020509060009010506080005--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:16:23 -0500 ! From: VMSguy <vmsguy@comcast.net> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India * Message-ID: <452AD847.9050406@comcast.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0104000701060902060501049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   H Thanks for the information - I will certainly explore this as an option 6 - replacement I should say - to VMS Off Shore Support.         Guy Peleg wrote:  / >"VMSguy" <vmsguy@comcast.net> wrote in message % >news:452A7AB4.7000508@comcast.net...  >    > J >>I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 >>it one bit.  >> >>     >> > : >I'm a little biased.....but try http://www.brudenossg.com >  >OSSG = On-Shore Systems Group >  >  >    >  >  >  >  >    >   & --------------010400070106090206050104) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">    <title></title>  </head> ' <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> G Thanks for the information - I will certainly explore this as an option : - replacement I should say - to VMS Off Shore Support.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> Guy Peleg wrote:A <blockquote cite="mid452abb44$0$10020$88260bb3@free.teranews.com" 
  type="cite">    <pre wrap="">"VMSguy" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vmsguy@comcast.net">&lt;vmsguy@comcast.net&gt;</a> wrote in message r <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:452A7AB4.7000508@comcast.net">news:452A7AB4.7000508@comcast.net</a>...   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">Y     <pre wrap="">I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like  it one bit.   
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!----> I'm a little biased.....but try <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.brudenossg.com">http://www.brudenossg.com</a>    OSSG = On-Shore Systems Group        </pre>   <pre wrap=""><!---->       </pre>
 </blockquote>  </body>  </html>   ( --------------010400070106090206050104--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:19:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India , Message-ID: <452AF53A.40C77F08@teksavvy.com>   Guy Peleg wrote:; > I'm a little biased.....but try http://www.brudenossg.com   
 "little" ????   C And by the way, you are about to have some serious competition from  hoffmanlabs.org :-_    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.556 ************************                                                                             from within your
INTOUCH procedures.
    
Now you can access multiple applications and common system functions
like MAIL) without having to exit from your main application.                      zSYSUAF_POST  F_SYSUAF_POST <Now take a look at the simple procedure used to perform this complex
task (TTI_INT_DEMO:INT_DEMO_F_SYSUAF.INT).
    
This is the kind of power that will let you quickly and easily convert
your existing applications without modifying your data structures.  Even
if they are in more than one format, i.e., RMS, RDB, INGRESS, etc.
INTOUCH accesses practically all of the different data structures
available on VMS.  And it is all transparent to the procedures you
write.
    
You can even change the underlying data structures without modifying
your applications.               
  $   

  $   
  $   
  $   
  $   
  $   
  $   
  $   
 	 $   
 
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  $   you quickly and easily convert
your existing applications without modifying your data structures.  Even
if they are in more than one format, i.e., RMS, RDB, INGRESS, etc.
INTOUCH accesses practically all of the different data structures
available on VMS.  And it is all transparent to the procedures you
write.
    
You can even change the underlying data structures without modifying
your applications.                                                                                                                                                                                          3E  
     	 	    ( F_WINDOW_POST  F_WINDOW_POST  With just a few simple, straightforward statements, INTOUCH allows you
to use a sophisticated, pop-up window format:

  CLEAR AREA BOX: row, col, row, col

  ASK WINDOW: CURRENT str_var

  SET WINDOW: CURRENT str_var                        2
RE 
 F_WINDOW_PRE It is easy to create windows using INTOUCH's ability to draw boxes, to
position data on the screen, and to save and restore screen images.

The following statement draws a framed, empty, rectangle:

  CLEAR AREA BOX: row, col, row, col

Use the PRINT statement to print data within the box.  Or, use the INPUT
statement to input data from within the box.

The following statements are used to save and restore whole screen
images:

  ASK WINDOW: CURRENT str_var
  SET WINDOW: CURRENT str_var                      	RAP_POST  F_WRAP_POST With its powerful text manipulation capabilities, INTOUCH gives you
exact format control with very little effort.

An example of utilizing WRAP$ is the display of variable length text
stored in data records.  This text might include invoice line items,
sales comments, etc.  Most other languages use several fixed length
fields for use with comments.  This method lacks flexibility.

With this text manipulation functionality, INTOUCH reduces the amount of
code you have to maintain, as well as its complexity.  With a single
line of code, you can format your text data to fit exactly where you
want it to fit.

    PRINT WRAP$(TEXT$, LEFT_MARGIN, RIGHT_MARGIN)               !       RE  F_WRAP_PRE kThe INTOUCH WRAP$ function allows a programmer to specify how text
will be formatted.

The WRAP$ function applies to all types of text.  Data entry text as
well as displayed text is easily handled by the INTOUCH WRAP$ function. 
This capability makes INTOUCH an ideal language for applications that
handle text fields of unknown length.
