1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 10 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 557       Contents:+ Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket" + Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"  Re: A service to hobbyists0 Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ?0 Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ?0 RE: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ?# Re: Excessive IO on my emulated vax 4 Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week$ Major HP users unhappy with support!% Re: MONITOR CLUSTER incompatibilities E OpenVMS.org Editor to speak on Software Architectures in Montreal, PQ I Re: OpenVMS.org Editor to speak on Software Architectures in Montreal, PQ I Re: OpenVMS.org Editor to speak on Software Architectures in Montreal, PQ H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)G Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out nextweek) 8 Re: RAID LICENSE - any one using and having fun with it?8 Re: RAID LICENSE - any one using and having fun with it? rms.h, starlet.h Re: rms.h, starlet.h Re: rms.h, starlet.h Re: rms.h, starlet.h% SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2  Re: TMSCP: VAX serving tapes ? Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: USB hampster Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX?$ Re: Which JAVA version to download ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 02:35:29 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"9 Message-ID: <l-6dnfZma8KvoLbYnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Dave Weatherall wrote:4 > On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:23:56 UTC, David J Dachtera % > <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote:  >  > <Snip> > R >> Myopia is a greater threat to the world and humankind than The Plague ever was.? >> The "least common denominator" is, indeed, disturbingly low.  > E > A nitpick, because I've only just realised why it bugged me when I   > first read it. > G > There would be a major difference between _least_ common denominator  F > and _lowest_ common denominator. The latter being what I was taught H > when learning to fractions at school in Wales.  Was/Is it different in	 > the US?  > A > One could argue that 'least common' is the opposite of what is  * > intended as it implies 'most different'. >  > Is this normal US usage? >   H 'Lowest' is always what I've seen.  'Least' might be some 'loose' usage A by some.  Far from the worst I've seen the language mangled.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2006 11:43:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"+ Message-ID: <4p1fb3FgkcmsU1@individual.net>   9 In article <l-6dnfZma8KvoLbYnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Dave Weatherall wrote:5 >> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:23:56 UTC, David J Dachtera  & >> <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote: >>  	 >> <Snip>  >>  S >>> Myopia is a greater threat to the world and humankind than The Plague ever was. @ >>> The "least common denominator" is, indeed, disturbingly low. >>  F >> A nitpick, because I've only just realised why it bugged me when I  >> first read it.  >>  H >> There would be a major difference between _least_ common denominator G >> and _lowest_ common denominator. The latter being what I was taught  I >> when learning to fractions at school in Wales.  Was/Is it different in 
 >> the US? >>  B >> One could argue that 'least common' is the opposite of what is + >> intended as it implies 'most different'.  >>   >> Is this normal US usage?  >>   > J > 'Lowest' is always what I've seen.  'Least' might be some 'loose' usage C > by some.  Far from the worst I've seen the language mangled.  :-)  >   G And, considering the context, I doubt anyone misunderstood his meaning!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:55:33 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com># Subject: Re: A service to hobbyists ) Message-ID: <op.tg7h6vlktte90l@hyrrokkin>   . On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 19:07:04 -0700, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   G > If you're a hobbyist with a new alpha, and need to populate it with a D > recent version of our favourite operating system, I may be able toH > informally help. I have an eight hundred thirty divided by one hundred > image that you could FTP.  > I > Contact me privately at jfmezei::vaxination.ca to set things up even if 8 > you have an aluminium baseball bat reserved to hit me.  ( Don't you mean eight hundred thirty two?     --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:38:55 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ? 3 Message-ID: <F9mPOY14i+c$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <1160149518.165106.22820@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes: E > as far as I know the current up time record is held by a cluster at  > WVNET with over 10 years.   D    I thought the Irish Railway cluster had the record with 17 years.5    But there was also a single VAX that did 14 years.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:32:53 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 9 Subject: Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ? J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-1FC3CC.15325310102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  3 In article <F9mPOY14i+c$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, =  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   J > In article <1160149518.165106.22820@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Ian  > Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes: G > > as far as I know the current up time record is held by a cluster at  > > WVNET with over 10 years.  > F >    I thought the Irish Railway cluster had the record with 17 years.7 >    But there was also a single VAX that did 14 years.   H ISTR that the real story was that it had provided uninterrupted service I for so many years _during required working hours_". IOW it could go down  % for regularly scheduled housekeeping.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:40:19 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 9 Subject: RE: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ? T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401BA600A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Paul Sture [mailto:paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch]=20   > Sent: October 10, 2006 9:33 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > Subject: Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ?  >=205 > In article <F9mPOY14i+c$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? >  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  >=20I > > In article <1160149518.165106.22820@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,=20 & > > "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes:A > > > as far as I know the current up time record is held by a=20  > cluster at=20  > > > WVNET with over 10 years.  > >=20H > >    I thought the Irish Railway cluster had the record with 17 years.9 > >    But there was also a single VAX that did 14 years.  >=206 > ISTR that the real story was that it had provided=20= > uninterrupted service for so many years _during required=20 B > working hours_". IOW it could go down for regularly scheduled=20 > housekeeping.  >=20 > -- > Paul Sture >=20   Paul,=20   See my previous reply.=20   H The OpenVMS App was up continually for 17 years, but as it was explainedB to me, it was done with dual VAX750's with bus switch that allowedD peripherals to switch (WAG, but I suspect unibus DT07) to the backupG system if if it had to. Point is that the App was always up over the 17 	 years.=20   H Back in the unibus days, bus switches like DT03/DT07 were common ways to achieve HA.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:50:15 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>, Subject: Re: Excessive IO on my emulated vax> Message-ID: <MPG.1f9536e5b6455fd598972c@news.bellatlantic.net>  C In article <FbjVg.95511$5R2.76633@pd7urf3no>, Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca   says...  > = > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  ( > news:4525A308.D7C80C22@teksavvy.com...I > > Read through the patches for VAX 7.3. There is one (I think the "SYS" @ > > one which mentions that the WBM thing is fixed by that patch > N > I looked, and the delay location doesn't match the patch.  It talks about a 2 > delay before the WBM thing, mine is afterwards.. > C > Having said that -I should probably patch the thing up to date...  > 	 > Villy.    B I used to get long delays while booting, installed the patch, longB delays went away.  This was so many years ago, I don't remember ifC it was V7.3 or what, but it was WBM-related and on VAXes.  (Booting E still takes a long time, but it's all the stuff *after* systartup_vms E takes control...  The WBM thing happens right at the beginning of the  boot.)       --   John   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:16:07 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>= Subject: Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week > Message-ID: <MPG.1f953cee2996a02998972d@news.bellatlantic.net>  4 In article <HVrwcfVTpbz+@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  frey@encompasserve.org says...t > In article <qfOdnTfEZ53Rh7jYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > L > > My daughter asked me to watch the science fiction series Babylon 5 with L > > her a while ago, and we've just gotten through the first half of season K > > 3.  That series of episodes could not be made today:  what was a grim,  M > > "1984"-ish fantasy a decade ago would now be seen as highly-inflammatory  K > > political commentary (the veiled references in recent Star Wars movies    > > were nothing by comparison). > C > 	Back when the show was airing, I was an avid watcher.  From the  R > beginning I thought that it was taken from our actual history.  Not that of the O > U.S. exactly, but definitly when the Communists took over China.  I also saw  R > how we were headed in the same direction.  (I disagree about how it couldn't be R > made today.  I think the truly scary implications would go right over the heads L > of most Americans.  Just look at how many sheeple pipe up and say "I have B > nothing to hide!" when discussing recent terrorism legislation.)  . "Everyone has something to hide."  - Sam Spade   > I > 	BTW, in reading several newsgroups discussing the current economy and  O > job market, I'm starting to wonder if we're heading for another 1929-caliber   > depression.  >  >  - Sharon $ > "Gravity...  is a harsh mistress!" >    --   John   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:27:47 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com - Subject: Major HP users unhappy with support! A Message-ID: <1160501267.831073.32810@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   o http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2006/10/10/219032/HP+users+voice+concerns+on+offshore+support+levels.htm    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:37:21 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: MONITOR CLUSTER incompatibilities3 Message-ID: <6xKKagHoDY2X@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <45idnd1y0fPJ9rvYnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > I > Yes the VAX (just about any model) was built like a tank!  They could,  I > potentially run for thirty or forty years.  But why would you want to?    B    Because they cost less to run than porting custom UNIBUS and/or    MASSBUS peripherals.   G    At least for UNIBUS there is Qniverter.  What do you do for MASSBUS?    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 05:12:39 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> N Subject: OpenVMS.org Editor to speak on Software Architectures in Montreal, PQB Message-ID: <1160482359.614735.64640@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  F Robert Gezelter, CSA, CSE, CDP, a Contributing Editor for OpenVMS.org,? will present "Architectural Techniques for Interoperability and C Coexistence" on Wednesday, October 11, 2006  in Montreal, Quebec at C 6:30 PM. This session is hosted by the Montreal Chapter of the IEEE D Computer Society. The IT community in the Calgary area is invited to attend.   G Mr. Gezelter will examine how systems and software architectures enable F long system life. Good architectures eliminate the need for expensive,G on-going revisions. Good architecture also enables systems to evolve to G additional tasks and missions without incompatible changes. Systems can C operate efficiently for decades without any architectural revision. G When revisions are needed, they are easily integrated with the existing 
 structure.  D The full abstract and location of this presentation can be found at:: http://www.rlgsc.com/ieee/montreal/2006-10/ann-swarch.html  F This presentation is made possible by the support of the IEEE Computer* Society's Distinguished Visitor's Program.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 08:13:50 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> R Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org Editor to speak on Software Architectures in Montreal, PQB Message-ID: <1160493230.503397.231790@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  > On Oct 10, 7:12 am, "Bob Gezelter" <gezel...@rlgsc.com> wrote: >...F > Computer Society. The IT community in the Calgary area is invited to	 > attend.  >  > ...    Dear Colleagues,  A My apologies for the mis-edit in my posting earlier today. The IT 4 community in the Montreal [Calgary] area is invited. (Deletion in Brackets "[]").  A I was (obviously) editing from an earlier posting from last year.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 09:41:32 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> R Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org Editor to speak on Software Architectures in Montreal, PQC Message-ID: <1160498492.486504.136250@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Colleagues,   ; I apologize to my Quebec colleagues for using the incorrect D abbreviation for the province. The title for this thread should have; abbreviated the province as "QC". Somehow, I appear to have B mis-remembered the abbreviation as "PQ" (it was correct on the www site, however).   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:30:52 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) 3 Message-ID: <hy3YrV1VZaYn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > D > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweetG > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one!  >   *    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:32:09 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) 3 Message-ID: <GA72PIBxkyAf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-6bluiVd4V1dW@dave2_os2.home.ours>, "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes: > D > RTL-II, who show Battlestar Galactica here in Germany, touted the H > program as being a hit in the US. But I really can't see why. Who are  > the audience rooting for?   0    The girl (the orginal didn't have that hook).   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 05:38:25 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) C Message-ID: <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:l > In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > > F > > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweetI > > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one!  > >  > , >    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around?  G I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. It G comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VT G terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected  via telnet!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:26:41 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-FA27DC.15264110102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, &  "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote:N > > In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" $ > > <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > > > H > > > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweetK > > > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one!  > > >  > > . > >    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around? > I > I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. It I > comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VT I > terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected 
 > via telnet!   I ISTR faking a real VT by using an emulator connected to a serial port at  
 9600 baud.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 06:49:30 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> P Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out nextweek); Message-ID: <452b7a8c$0$5902$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   = "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message  , news:452A7F8F.9060805@applied-synergy.com... > Neil Rieck wrote: L >> All these B5 discussions have got me thinking about purchasing the first 9 >> DVD box set. I think I'll start shopping around today.  > 4 > I just finished watching the box sets with my son. > M > When you watch them for the first time, I recommend that you NOT watch the  L > special features or listen to the commentaries as they give away too much. > J > After you watch everything, then you can go back and pick up the extras. > G > Now I think I need to watch everything again to pick up the things I    > missed the first time.  <sigh> > & > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > D > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com >   Fax: 817-237-3074   0 Thanks for the tip. Where did you buy your DVDs?  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:05:16 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> A Subject: Re: RAID LICENSE - any one using and having fun with it? / Message-ID: <gpQWg.894$J7.892@news.cpqcorp.net>    John wrote: 0  > And I am talking about the following product:  >E  > StorageWorks[R] RAID Software for OpenVMS[R] is a software product   > that uses RAID technology to   H For all the folks who provided answers talking about various controller K hardware-based RAID implementations, note this is Host-Based RAID Software.   G The product was originally designed to do RAID-5 arrays, but later had  H added to it the capability of doing RAID-0 arrays (stripesets) and RAID E 0+1 arrays (stripesets of shadowsets) in conjunction with Host-Based  G Volume Shadowing software. In practice today, we see this product used  H almost exclusively for RAID 0 or 0+1 arrays and almost never for RAID-5.  E > 1) CPU utiliziation - does the software increase the amount of CPU  & > usage?  I suspect some but not much.  D The areas of usage where CPU usage would be noticeably higher would $ typically only be for RAID-5 arrays.  H Writes using RAID-5 arrays will use more CPU time (because the software D must use XOR operations to calculate the parity blocks). You'd also F consume a fair amount of CPU during reconstruction operations after a G disk failure, due to the same XOR operations being used to reconstruct  G the data. But for reads on RAID-5 arrays, or any I/Os on RAID-0 arrays  I or RAID 0+1 arrays the additional CPU usage would be insignificant. With  E RAID 0+1 arrays, which use HBVS, during shadow copies and merges the  E Shadow_Server can consume some noticeable CPU time doing the copy or   merge work.   E > 2) I/O impact - obviously with the more disks the better the I/O -  E > assuming that the disks are not in contention with one another and  & > spread accross multiple controllers.  G I see this used most often in large clusters where the I/O capacity of  H the fastest controller model on the market is insufficient, and so RAID B 0+1 arrays are formed across multiple controller pairs to provide  sufficient throughput.   > Depending on the number of  9 > controllers, could I match the speed of the EVA series?   H In terms of requests per second, yes, if you put enough HSG80s together G into a RAID 0+1 array, you could do as many I/Os per second as an EVA.  F But the EVA has advantages in other areas: larger cache, higher-speed C Fibre Channel interfaces, and having newer and thus higher-RPM and  ' faster-seek-time disk drives available.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:14:12 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> A Subject: Re: RAID LICENSE - any one using and having fun with it? / Message-ID: <ExQWg.895$5a.768@news.cpqcorp.net>    R.A.Omond wrote:C > Be aware that there is potential (though highly unlikely) to lose ? > data if you're using RAID-5 and you have a system crash at an B > inopportune moment, since there's effectively no "battery-backedC > cache" as you would normally have in any other RAID-5 controller.   D No, this software implementation of RAID-5 very carefully protected H against the so-called "write hole", where either data or the associated L parity (but not both) have been updated at the point where a system crashes.  F The software used reserved areas scattered across the disk surface to I store metadata, and used this as its non-volatile storage in lieu of the  9 non-volatile cache memory available to a controller pair.   H But one consequence of this "fail-safe" design was that writing to disk D was then even slower with this host-based product, because it would F first set the metadata bits on disk to indicate the parity associated C with a stripe of data was being modified, then modify the data and  D parity, then re-set the metadata bits to indicate that the data and  parity were now consistent.   I (In practice the overhead of these additional writes can be mitigated by  G doing putting the disks onto a controller with write-back cache so the  F controller hides the latency of the additional writes, and they don't D actually have to land on disk. But if you have such a controller it G usually has RAID-5 built in, so you might as well use that, unless you  ? are using the host-based software to do RAID-5 across multiple  < controllers to protect against the failure of a controller.)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:58:11 -0700& From: "Rohan" <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> Subject: rms.h, starlet.h B Message-ID: <1160492291.197479.112310@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  D I am porting my C++ application from VMS to Redhat Linux AS4.0. WhenB trying to compile the code I am getting errors on rms.h, starlet.h? files. These look like VMS dependant header files. Is there any * equivalent in Linx for these header files?   Thanks,  Rohan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:59:32 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: rms.h, starlet.h , Message-ID: <eggcgk$gg8$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  2 "Rohan" <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> wrote in message < news:1160492291.197479.112310@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...E >I am porting my C++ application from VMS to Redhat Linux AS4.0. When D > trying to compile the code I am getting errors on rms.h, starlet.hA > files. These look like VMS dependant header files. Is there any , > equivalent in Linx for these header files?   No.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:54:55 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: rms.h, starlet.h : Message-ID: <UvKdncNLo6rPX7bYnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Rohan wrote:  F > I am porting my C++ application from VMS to Redhat Linux AS4.0. WhenD > trying to compile the code I am getting errors on rms.h, starlet.hA > files. These look like VMS dependant header files. Is there any , > equivalent in Linx for these header files? > 	 > Thanks,  > Rohan  >   H They ARE VMS dependent header files.  Their presence suggests that your H code has some VMS dependencies!  rms.h would have definitions and stuff G for the VMS Record Management System (file I/O).  starlet.h would have  % definitions for system service calls.   F No way is it going to build or run on Linux with that stuff in there. I Without seeing the code I can't tell you whether to rewrite from scratch  % or if it might be possible to fix it!    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:25:35 -0700& From: "Rohan" <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> Subject: Re: rms.h, starlet.h C Message-ID: <1160501135.673818.263240@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   < Thank you! that helps... we might have to change the code...         Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Rohan wrote: > H > > I am porting my C++ application from VMS to Redhat Linux AS4.0. WhenF > > trying to compile the code I am getting errors on rms.h, starlet.hC > > files. These look like VMS dependant header files. Is there any . > > equivalent in Linx for these header files? > >  > > Thanks, 	 > > Rohan  > >  > I > They ARE VMS dependent header files.  Their presence suggests that your I > code has some VMS dependencies!  rms.h would have definitions and stuff H > for the VMS Record Management System (file I/O).  starlet.h would have' > definitions for system service calls.  > G > No way is it going to build or run on Linux with that stuff in there. J > Without seeing the code I can't tell you whether to rewrite from scratch' > or if it might be possible to fix it!    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:25:42 -07003 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> . Subject: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2C Message-ID: <1160501142.408922.312560@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Folks,  @ I just noticed that a new version of SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation) Release 2 is available for download from:   5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html    p.s. I haven't installed it yet   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.  ! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:05:36 -0400  From: "Jilly" <jilly@hp.com>' Subject: Re: TMSCP: VAX serving tapes ? , Message-ID: <452ba8b1$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:4525AB7F.6F3BB76C@teksavvy.com... > Jilly wrote: >> Is TAPE_ALLOCLASS set to 4? > I > Many thanks. Didn't know this parameter existed (SYSGEN> SHOW TAP* only  > shows one  TAPE parameter) >  > It was set to 0. > H > So I set it to the same alloclass as the node itself (5 in that case).I > Rebooted that node, and magically, that node started serving that tape  	 > device.  > J > aka: if the node's TAPE_ALLOCLASS is set to 0, then it doesn't appear toD > serve any tapes. If the TAPE_ALLOCLASS is non-zero, it then servesI > available tape devices even if they do not match that node's alloclass.   H Glad it worked for you.  ISTR the docs say that it needs to be the same L number as the alloclass of the units you wish this system to serve (the way M disk serving works), so it could stop behaving in the current manner at some   later point.   Jilly    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:32:07 GMT , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> Subject: Re: USB hampster & Message-ID: <452BBC16.76842DA9@hp.com>  @ 	As Fred said we have talked about just starting an application F when a USB device is plugged in.  But that is way off the work list.  + We have other critical things to work on.     F 1) As I have said I do not know what the magic is to get the built in G    USB in the DS10 and DS10L working.  Sorry that is the way it is.  If H    you want USB on these systems purchase an add in USB card.  They are :    cheap and work.  It is what Fred used/uses in his DS10.  C 2) Some digital camera's will plug in and show up as USB disk as of  V8.3. C    Not all but many, you still need a tool to read the FAT formated  media.  E 3) Even more on configuration.  When a device is plugged into the USB  BUS E    the USB hub driver UCM0 gets notified.  It reads the first bit of  F    configuration data from the device and assigns the device an addres on  B    the USB bus.  It also notes it BUS topology which consists of a numberH    we assinged to the controller and each port number on each hub it is H    plugged into.  It then goes and reads additional configuration data. !    The most important of that is:   
 	Vendor Id 	Product Id  	Release Number 4 	Device/Interface Class, SubClass, and Protocol data 	Serial number.   H    This data is passed to the USB Configuration Manager code UCM Server G    which figures out what the device is.  For some devices there is an  F    extra step.  For Keyboards and Mice we match them to a driver that G    manages Human Interface Devices.  The HID driver then determines is  F    it is a keyboard, Mouse, Joystick etc.  It then uses UCM Server to     load the correct driver.   E 4) No lets suppose you have some device that we do not have a driver  E    for.  Or you want to over ride the selection of the VMS driver in  D    favor of your own support code.  You can do that in fact that is G    what I recently did for a customer who needed Barcode reader support H    It tied his specific reader to UGDRIVER, then wrote some application D    code that read the scanned barcode data and turned it into ASCII D    text.  Couple thousand lines of user mode C code and a couple of      hours and he was in business.     Forrest    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:13:36 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: USB hampster , Message-ID: <452b9c81$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:452AF45F.E5AFE26C@teksavvy.com... > FredK wrote:I > > Server.  When a USB device is attached, the HUB driver with potential  helpK > > from the HID (Human Interface Device) driver sends a message to the UCM G > > server describing the new device.  The UCM server then looks up the  deviceK > > in the permanent USB device database (devices that have previously been G > > seen, configured and given a persistant name), and loads/connects a  driver. K > > If the device isn't in the permanent database it looks it up, names it,  and I > > loads and connects the driver (in V8.3 it will automatically do this,  and - > > automatically make the device permanent).  >  > Thanks for the description.  > H > Question: when you plug in a camera for instance, instead of loading a> > driver, could the UCM server actually start an application ? >   E Could it?  Yes.  Will it?  No, at least not in the short term.  It is H something that Forrest and I have talked about.  But to do it right, andI account for any and all security issues (plus a whole lot of other "real" H work) has kept it on the back-burner for now.  However, you still need aB driver - even if it is the generic driver - to talk to the device.   >  > Another question:  > F > How do those keychain flash drives operate ? I take it there is someJ > sort of a CPU in them that can process USB requests and return data fromE > the "drive" ? From the host's point of view, does it issue requests H > simuilar to MSCP ("give me block X") ? Or is there a much mre intimateB > protocol between the host driver/application and the USB drive ?  E IIRC it is like IDE drives - an encapsulated SCSI protocol.  Anything L attached to a USB hub by definition has some sort of "CPU" - all USB devices are intellegent.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:55:45 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: USB hampster 0 Message-ID: <00A5CFF3.DD8FAB05@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <452b9c81$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >  >  > ; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ' >news:452AF45F.E5AFE26C@teksavvy.com...  >> FredK wrote: J >> > Server.  When a USB device is attached, the HUB driver with potential >help L >> > from the HID (Human Interface Device) driver sends a message to the UCMH >> > server describing the new device.  The UCM server then looks up the >device L >> > in the permanent USB device database (devices that have previously beenH >> > seen, configured and given a persistant name), and loads/connects a >driver.L >> > If the device isn't in the permanent database it looks it up, names it, >andJ >> > loads and connects the driver (in V8.3 it will automatically do this, >and. >> > automatically make the device permanent). >> >> Thanks for the description. >>I >> Question: when you plug in a camera for instance, instead of loading a ? >> driver, could the UCM server actually start an application ?  >> > F >Could it?  Yes.  Will it?  No, at least not in the short term.  It isI >something that Forrest and I have talked about.  But to do it right, and J >account for any and all security issues (plus a whole lot of other "real"I >work) has kept it on the back-burner for now.  However, you still need a C >driver - even if it is the generic driver - to talk to the device.   L Canon cameras do not support serving the memory card as a disk.  I have, forL my photography needs, purchased a firewire Compact Flash card reader which IK use with my PowerBook and OS X.  It's damn fast -- faster than reading from L the camera's USB or via a Compact Flash card adapter.  If there is a CompactM Flash USB reader you've found that works with VMS, I'd like to hear about it. $ I'll handle the "FAT" reading later.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:01:44 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: USB hampster * Message-ID: <452ba7c4@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   FredK wrote:  > > IIRC it is like IDE drives - an encapsulated SCSI protocol.   O    There are various write-ups of these devices available within the IDE ATAPI  L (www.t13.org) documents and (peripherally, no pun intended) within the SCSI M (www.t10.org) documents.  Most of the flash cards and such all look and work  N basically like SCSI storage devices -- the base I/O scheme used for IDE/ATAPI F (SATA or PATA), USB and other such is part of the T10 protocol family.  P    The adapters (and Island is/was selling one, IIRC) connected a collection of Q memory card sockets onto the Alpha IDE bus.  I'd expect that a USB-based adapter  J would work, for those Alpha systems that have functional USB.  One of the K hardware vendors in this area is ACARD -- though I don't know off-hand who   Island is/was using.  K    Having an SD slot on the front of a system or a controller can be quite  O handy, for instance.  (Though not so good as a distribution medium, due to its  < higher piece costs.  CD, DVD and even HD are cheaper there.)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 06:06:59 -0700; From: "William.W.Webb@gmail.com" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India B Message-ID: <1160485619.875199.55770@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 VMSguy wrote: I > I usually set the FIELD account with a new password and pre-expired for 4 > the next day - as a "forget to DisUser" safeguard. > 8 > No, I did not have to allow them access to the system. >  > Paul Sture wrote:  > . > >In article <4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net>,- > > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  > >  > >  > > K > >>And you would actually trust these bozos to logon to your system with a  > >>FIELD/SYSTEM account?  > >> > >> > >> > > G > >Going back some years to the first time I was asked by a DEC support G > >person to give them dial in access, I was *most*  impressed by their I > >professionalism. The guy even thought to disable FIELD once done, just 6 > >in case I wasn't there at the time to do it myself. > >  > >  > >  > ( > --------------020509060009010506080005 > Content-Type: text/html  > X-Google-AttachSize: 1298  > A > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  > <html> > <head>K >   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">  >   <title></title> 	 > </head> ) > <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> I > I usually set the FIELD account with a new password and pre-expired for 8 > the next day - as a "forget to DisUser" safeguard.<br> > <br>< > No, I did not have to allow them access to the system.<br> > <br> > Paul Sture wrote:<br> 
 > <blockquote I >  cite="midpaul.sture.nospam-87E0A1.23153009102006@mac.sture.homeip.net"  >  type="cite">  >   <pre wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net">&lt;4ovfniFghto1U1@individual.net&gt;</a>, s >  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu">bill@cs.uofs.edu</a> (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  > 
 >   </pre> >   <blockquote type="cite">Z >     <pre wrap="">And you would actually trust these bozos to logon to your system with a > FIELD/SYSTEM account?  >  >     </pre> >   </blockquote>  >   <pre wrap=""><!---->F > Going back some years to the first time I was asked by a DEC supportF > person to give them dial in access, I was *most*  impressed by theirH > professionalism. The guy even thought to disable FIELD once done, just5 > in case I wasn't there at the time to do it myself.  > 
 >   </pre> > </blockquote> 	 > </body> 	 > </html>  > * > --------------020509060009010506080005--  @ We went one step beyond that at one site- not only was the FIELDD account rigged to self-destruct, the DECserver port that the dial-inB modem hung off of was normally unusable.  The routine that set theE port's parameters so dial-in could succeed submitted a batch job that F would set it back to its unusable configuration [insert period of time  here] after it had been enabled.  ? Another place I worked at (and this was my idea) used a logging 4 utility- carboncopy, I think but it was *years* ago.  0 I set things up in SYLOGIN.COM so that if either  = a) if it was a vendor account or a privileged account runnnig  interactively or@ b) the connection was coming in over one of the modem lines, the logging utility got activated.  @ And the truly sneaky thing was that right before the utility got activated, I did a   DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT  C so that no evidence of the utility was visible to those logging in.    WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:14:02 -0700) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India B Message-ID: <1160489642.547617.10750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>  G Here is a HP Services Web site for customers to log their issues it may D be worth logging your complaints their and try and change the trend.   http://voctool.hp.com/   Sue       
 VMSguy wrote: J > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 > it one bit.  > G > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of : > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > E > Simply a bunch of idiots with a language barrier.  Ask for a simple E > dial-in for a crash analysis and I get the run around of "is this a E > hardware or software issue"  - Hell I do not know, that is why I am H > making the call - you dial-in and you tell me what the problems - I am9 > paying you support.  They even lost my contract number.  > J > Mind you, I would love to add more colorful metaphors to this thread!  I" > am not happy about this service. > I > I called 3 hours ago and I am still waiting for an e-mail response with C > instructions on what I need to do with the crash dump file (FTP I 
 > suppose)...  > F > No offense to India - I work with some people from India that are on? > their toes - they live here in the states - maybe that is the - > difference.  They share common interests...  > H > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us> > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > ; > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:29:47 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India B Message-ID: <1160490587.861358.78480@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 Sue wrote:I > Here is a HP Services Web site for customers to log their issues it may F > be worth logging your complaints their and try and change the trend. >  > http://voctool.hp.com/ >  > Sue  >  >  >  > VMSguy wrote: L > > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like > > it one bit.  > > I > > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of < > > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > > G > > Simply a bunch of idiots with a language barrier.  Ask for a simple G > > dial-in for a crash analysis and I get the run around of "is this a G > > hardware or software issue"  - Hell I do not know, that is why I am J > > making the call - you dial-in and you tell me what the problems - I am; > > paying you support.  They even lost my contract number.  > > L > > Mind you, I would love to add more colorful metaphors to this thread!  I$ > > am not happy about this service. > > K > > I called 3 hours ago and I am still waiting for an e-mail response with E > > instructions on what I need to do with the crash dump file (FTP I  > > suppose)...  > > H > > No offense to India - I work with some people from India that are onA > > their toes - they live here in the states - maybe that is the / > > difference.  They share common interests...  > > J > > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us@ > > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > > = > > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.   E Thanks for that.  I already wrote the board contact email, as well as F Hurd's, concerning our two service calls under the new situation (both< disastrously slow and inept).  This will be worth doing too.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 16:24:59 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India , Message-ID: <452bc95b$1@news.langstoeger.at>  n In article <1160489642.547617.10750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:H >Here is a HP Services Web site for customers to log their issues it mayE >be worth logging your complaints their and try and change the trend.  >  >http://voctool.hp.com/   G Looks promising, but unfortunately times out (what promise is this?)...    SCNR   -EPLAN   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:36:47 -0400 . From: "Carl Friedberg" <frida.fried@gmail.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India I Message-ID: <890539d90610100736h7e2f03f5if506a2ba1ad9e121@mail.gmail.com>    Hi Sue,        > http://voctool.hp.com/    L does not respond; and searching for voctool on the hp site turns up nothing.   Sorry,   Carl Friedberg   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 07:40:10 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India C Message-ID: <1160491210.548955.121250@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Carl Friedberg wrote: 	 > Hi Sue,  >  >  >  > > http://voctool.hp.com/ >  > N > does not respond; and searching for voctool on the hp site turns up nothing. >  > Sorry, >  > Carl Friedberg  " Ditto here now that I've tried it.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 08:03:11 -0700" From: "kczwei" <kaycee@kaycee.net>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India C Message-ID: <1160492591.935862.216030@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   
 VMSguy wrote: J > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 > it one bit.  > G > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of : > intellectual thought process involved with these people.  B In many places the past 6 months I have 'defended' the VMS supportG group as being near perfect for the past 20 years.  I HUMBLY APOLOGIZE. 3  I realize now that I must have been lucky/blessed.   F Yesterday morning, I also made a random call to 1-800-VMS-HELP.....andF by the time the call was over, I was past worried.  I think I may have: waited toooo long to port my software to another platform.  " Basically the call went like this: Hello, may I help you.    Yes.  What is your SAID number?      ########### + Thank you, please hold.....................  What is your name?
     Kelly Cox ; OK, please hold............................................ 1 Would you like me to create a new trouble ticket?      Yes.3 OK, please hold...........................VERY LONG  HOLD................... E I'm sorry Mr. Cox, but we are having trouble creating a ticket, thank  you for holding........., more hold..................................." Would you like your ticket number?    Yes. - OK, please hold.............................. " Now, can you tell us your trouble?    Yes,.......... E OK, please hold, I need to speak to my supervisor................LONG  HOLD............... F Mr. Cox, please call 800.HP support or log a problem on the HP support	 web page.   E This is a SHORT summary.  When I called the 800 number he suggested I A call, the person asked if VMS was a unix/linux derivitave or some E 'test' os.  When they asked what hardware I was using they thought an  rx2600 was a TV!!!!!  E This after I have had an annual VMS support for YEARS.   I think this C call took 30+ minutes.  If I had not spent so many years working in C Asia, the poor english would have been a problem, but worse was the  poor phone connection.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:37:18 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 4 Message-ID: <eggb6u$orf$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  p > In article <1160489642.547617.10750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes: >>http://voctool.hp.com/ >  > I > Looks promising, but unfortunately times out (what promise is this?)...   
 Same here :-(    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:19:50 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 0 Message-ID: <12inegmlbg6hgcf@news.supernews.com>  H I hope you sent this copy of  experiences to HP HQ - If everyone did so,H then the squeaky wheel MIGHT, JUST MIGHT, Get some Ghee, oops I mean oil     --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   - "kczwei" <kaycee@kaycee.net> wrote in message = news:1160492591.935862.216030@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...  >  > VMSguy wrote: L > > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like > > it one bit.  > > I > > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of < > > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > D > In many places the past 6 months I have 'defended' the VMS supportI > group as being near perfect for the past 20 years.  I HUMBLY APOLOGIZE. 5 >  I realize now that I must have been lucky/blessed.  > H > Yesterday morning, I also made a random call to 1-800-VMS-HELP.....andH > by the time the call was over, I was past worried.  I think I may have< > waited toooo long to port my software to another platform. > $ > Basically the call went like this: > Hello, may I help you.	 >    Yes.  > What is your SAID number?  >     ########### - > Thank you, please hold.....................  > What is your name? >     Kelly Cox = > OK, please hold............................................ 3 > Would you like me to create a new trouble ticket? 
 >     Yes.5 > OK, please hold...........................VERY LONG  > HOLD................... G > I'm sorry Mr. Cox, but we are having trouble creating a ticket, thank  > you for holding.......... > more hold...................................$ > Would you like your ticket number?	 >    Yes. / > OK, please hold.............................. $ > Now, can you tell us your trouble? >    Yes,.......... G > OK, please hold, I need to speak to my supervisor................LONG  > HOLD............... H > Mr. Cox, please call 800.HP support or log a problem on the HP support > web page.  > G > This is a SHORT summary.  When I called the 800 number he suggested I C > call, the person asked if VMS was a unix/linux derivitave or some G > 'test' os.  When they asked what hardware I was using they thought an  > rx2600 was a TV!!!!! > G > This after I have had an annual VMS support for YEARS.   I think this E > call took 30+ minutes.  If I had not spent so many years working in E > Asia, the poor english would have been a problem, but worse was the  > poor phone connection. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:18:54 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-559C06.17185410102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  4 In article <eggb6u$orf$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,/  Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:   " > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > M > > In article <1160489642.547617.10750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Sue"  ) > > <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:  > >>http://voctool.hp.com/ > >  > > K > > Looks promising, but unfortunately times out (what promise is this?)...  >  > Same here :-(   I Same here, but it must have taken a good half hour or more before it did.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 08:54:42 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India A Message-ID: <1160495682.075995.71810@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   
 kczwei wrote:  > VMSguy wrote: L > > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like > > it one bit.  > > I > > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of < > > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > D > In many places the past 6 months I have 'defended' the VMS supportI > group as being near perfect for the past 20 years.  I HUMBLY APOLOGIZE. 5 >  I realize now that I must have been lucky/blessed.  > H > Yesterday morning, I also made a random call to 1-800-VMS-HELP.....andH > by the time the call was over, I was past worried.  I think I may have< > waited toooo long to port my software to another platform. > $ > Basically the call went like this: > Hello, may I help you.	 >    Yes.  > What is your SAID number?  >     ########### - > Thank you, please hold.....................  > What is your name? >     Kelly Cox = > OK, please hold............................................ 3 > Would you like me to create a new trouble ticket? 
 >     Yes.5 > OK, please hold...........................VERY LONG  > HOLD................... G > I'm sorry Mr. Cox, but we are having trouble creating a ticket, thank  > you for holding.......... > more hold...................................$ > Would you like your ticket number?	 >    Yes. / > OK, please hold.............................. $ > Now, can you tell us your trouble? >    Yes,.......... G > OK, please hold, I need to speak to my supervisor................LONG  > HOLD............... H > Mr. Cox, please call 800.HP support or log a problem on the HP support > web page.  > G > This is a SHORT summary.  When I called the 800 number he suggested I C > call, the person asked if VMS was a unix/linux derivitave or some G > 'test' os.  When they asked what hardware I was using they thought an  > rx2600 was a TV!!!!! > G > This after I have had an annual VMS support for YEARS.   I think this E > call took 30+ minutes.  If I had not spent so many years working in E > Asia, the poor english would have been a problem, but worse was the  > poor phone connection.    C In the unlikely event that someone from HP contacts you about this, 6 promises will be made and nothing will come from them.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:13:00 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 9 Message-ID: <GvqdnRT3rpQSWbbYnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Paul Sture wrote: 6 > In article <eggb6u$orf$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,1 >  Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:  > # >> Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  >>M >>> In article <1160489642.547617.10750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Sue"  ) >>> <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:  >>>> http://voctool.hp.com/  >>> K >>> Looks promising, but unfortunately times out (what promise is this?)...  >> Same here :-( > K > Same here, but it must have taken a good half hour or more before it did.  >    Well I can see how this works.  . VMS person: What if the customers are unhappy?  H HP management: Ok, we'll set up a URL for complaints, and if we get too $ many, we'll re-evaluate the support.  C HP management: (To whoever sets up the complaint URL **) Make sure   nobody can file a complaint.  G HP management: (Later to VMS person) See, no complaints, the customers  / are just peachy keen fine with the new support.   = ** Most likely someone connected to the 'leak' investigation.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 09:10:07 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India B Message-ID: <1160496607.739246.17160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  
 VMSguy wrote: J > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 > it one bit.  >  [...] H > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us> > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > ; > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.   A This situation is very common. The managment thought process goes  something like this:  A Manager1: OpenVMS sales are down, and I project they will decline  further.D Manager2: I've seen those same numbers. We were correct to eliminate the OpenVMS advertising budget. 4 Manager1: Yes. We must trim the support budget, too.' Manager2: Yes. Let's move it off-shore.  Manager1: Brilliant!
 (time passes) A Manager 2: Look at the OpenVMS support revenue numbers! Way down. - Manager1: Yes. We sure called that one right! 3 Manager2: Yes. Let's go pretend to be Katie Couric!  Manager1: Brilliant!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:05:52 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 0 Message-ID: <12inkng5lh2mc4c@news.supernews.com>  I I think the new Indian VMS support center is the same one used by Sunbeam  for toasters and waffle irons.   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   8 "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote in message< news:1160496607.739246.17160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > VMSguy wrote: L > > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like > > it one bit.  > >  > [...] J > > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us@ > > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > > = > > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.  > C > This situation is very common. The managment thought process goes  > something like this: > C > Manager1: OpenVMS sales are down, and I project they will decline 
 > further.F > Manager2: I've seen those same numbers. We were correct to eliminate! > the OpenVMS advertising budget. 6 > Manager1: Yes. We must trim the support budget, too.) > Manager2: Yes. Let's move it off-shore.  > Manager1: Brilliant! > (time passes) C > Manager 2: Look at the OpenVMS support revenue numbers! Way down. / > Manager1: Yes. We sure called that one right! 5 > Manager2: Yes. Let's go pretend to be Katie Couric!  > Manager1: Brilliant! >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:30:43 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India + Message-ID: <egglcj$suu$1@naig.caltech.edu>   # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: K > I think the new Indian VMS support center is the same one used by Sunbeam   > for toasters and waffle irons. >   A Is the joke your statement or is the state of VMS support a joke?    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:21:18 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India / Message-ID: <iEQWg.897$ja.568@news.cpqcorp.net>   
 Sue wrote:I > Here is a HP Services Web site for customers to log their issues it may F > be worth logging your complaints their and try and change the trend. >  > http://voctool.hp.com/ >  > Sue  >  >   I The VOC (Voice of the Customer) is available only inside HP as a way for  H HP employees to pass along customer complaints.  You can't see the site F from outside the company.  I've only seen it used for issues like "my ; customer didn't get the extra laptop battery ordered", etc.    --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:40:50 -0700% From: "Laura" <lmcgaughey@parsec.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India B Message-ID: <1160502050.072274.51830@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   To all VMS/TRU64 UNIX users:E There is an alternative to HP ---- PARSEC Group, located in Denver CO  --  G PARSEC Group is the only HP Authorized Independent Training Partner, HP D Solutions Alliance Partner & Microsoft Certified Technical EducationF Center to earn Microsoft Gold Certified Partner for Enterprise SystemsF in the World!  We offer expertise in OpenVMS, Microsoft BackOffice andD Tru64 UNIX, to name a few.  Our Trainers Consult and Our ConsultantsE Train.  We also offer 24x7 support contracts for our clients, as well E as, business reviews/audits in IT processes, Disaster Recovery, Virus E Detection/Tracking, System Monitoring, Server & Desktop Environments, 7 e-Mail implementation, Back-up/Recovery procedures etc.   E PARSEC can implement, migrate and integrate multiple platforms.  Over E 85% of our training classes are customized to the customers needs and A 100% of our consulting/service is customized applications for our C clients and we guarantee 100% satisfaction to all of our customers.   E We have over 200 current support customers; assisted over 700 clients < with selection of enterprise network; trained over 15,000 IT> Professionals and have held over 700 on-site training classes.   Check us out at www.parsec.com  
 VMSguy wrote: J > I just had my first experience with VMS Support in India - I do not like
 > it one bit.  > G > It reminds me of nothing more than my cable service - a total lack of : > intellectual thought process involved with these people. > E > Simply a bunch of idiots with a language barrier.  Ask for a simple E > dial-in for a crash analysis and I get the run around of "is this a E > hardware or software issue"  - Hell I do not know, that is why I am H > making the call - you dial-in and you tell me what the problems - I am9 > paying you support.  They even lost my contract number.  > J > Mind you, I would love to add more colorful metaphors to this thread!  I" > am not happy about this service. > I > I called 3 hours ago and I am still waiting for an e-mail response with C > instructions on what I need to do with the crash dump file (FTP I 
 > suppose)...  > F > No offense to India - I work with some people from India that are on? > their toes - they live here in the states - maybe that is the - > difference.  They share common interests...  > H > The group that now supports VMS?  Well if this is what HP thinks of us> > as a customer then we are screwed as VMS users and managers. > ; > Thanks HP for your lack of foresight in customer support.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:29:40 -0700& From: "Rohan" <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> Subject: VMS VS LINUX B Message-ID: <1160501380.005144.71170@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  # Does Linux perform better than VMS?   A What are advantages/disadvantages of having VMS or Linux over one  another?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:27:24 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX ) Message-ID: <op.tg7urylztte90l@hyrrokkin>   I On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:29:40 -0700, Rohan <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> wrote:   % > Does Linux perform better than VMS?  > C > What are advantages/disadvantages of having VMS or Linux over one 
 > another? > 9 VMS doesn't crash, can't be hacked, is disaster tolerant.      --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:46:09 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com>  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX B Message-ID: <1160502369.253557.10450@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  < On Oct 10, 12:29 pm, "Rohan" <rohan.bak...@qwest.com> wrote:% > Does Linux perform better than VMS?  > C > What are advantages/disadvantages of having VMS or Linux over one 
 > another?   Rohan,  B A discussion of the positive aspects of what makes OpenVMS a solidA platform can be found in the chapter on "OpenVMS Security" in the G Handbook of Information Security (H Bidgoli, Ed., Wiley, 2006; abstract G and brochure at http://www.rlgsc.com/hinfosec/hinfosec.html). This book C chapter is an overview intended to be suitable for senior corporate  executives and their staffs.  G I published a brief overview of OpenVMS entitled "OpenVMS - A System of . Structure" on OSNews.com earlier this year (atC http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15222 ). While admittedly a 8 briefer treatment, it is available online for no charge.  G In short, OpenVMS has higher integrity, stability, and security because ? it is an example of an architected environment, not an "ad hoc" 1 evolution of components that affect many systems.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 09:55:38 -0700# From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: What is DELETEX? C Message-ID: <1160499338.840907.212840@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   C Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is < this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"?   Thanks,  Ransom Fitch   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:08:08 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? C Message-ID: <1160500088.386819.317760@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   9 On Oct 10, 11:55 am, "RLFitch" <rlfi...@gmail.com> wrote: E > Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is > > this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"? > 	 > Thanks,  > Ransom Fitch   Ransom,   @ It could be a typo, or it could be a local abbreviation. I wouldF strongly suggest checking what it is actually defined as before taking any action.   @ Inserting the command SHOW SYMBOL DELETEX immediately before theG reference and checking the resulting output would be a very sound idea.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:14:52 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? Q Message-ID: <OF3C5783B4.94B33238-ON85257203.005E84CF-85257203.005EBEC6@metso.com>   + This is a multipart message in MIME format. " --=_alternative 005EBEC285257203_=, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"  K It is a workaround for not devolving to a shortened symbol definition such   as     DEL*ETE :== DELETE/CONFIRM  @ Misspelling it at the end will cause it not to match the symbol.   I have also seen DELETE_ used.  > "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com> wrote on 10/10/2006 12:55:38 PM:  E > Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is > > this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"? > 
 > Thanks,  > Ransom Fitch >   " --=_alternative 005EBEC285257203_=+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"     G <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It is a workaround for not devolving 0 to a shortened symbol definition such as </font> <br>D <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">DEL*ETE :== DELETE/CONFIRM</font> <br>G <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Misspelling it at the end will cause " it not to match the symbol.</font> <br>H <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I have also seen DELETE_ used.</font> <br>H <br><font size=2><tt>&quot;RLFitch&quot; &lt;rlfitch@gmail.com&gt; wrote on 10/10/2006 12:55:38 PM:<br> <br>Q &gt; Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined. &nbsp;Is<br> T &gt; this the same as DELETE? &nbsp;Is this an &quot;undocumented command&quot;?<br>	 &gt; <br>  &gt; Thanks, <br>  &gt; Ransom Fitch<br> 	 &gt; <br>  </tt></font>$ --=_alternative 005EBEC285257203_=--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:07:18 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? , Message-ID: <eggk06$iq3$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  / "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com> wrote in message  = news:1160499338.840907.212840@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... E > Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is > > this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"?  G Well sort of. It exploits the long standing (but I believe unsupported) G feature that only the first four letters of a DCL verb are significant. B It's a hackish way to get around the fact that some folks redefine" DELETE, to be say DELETE/CONFIRM.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 10:18:55 -0700# From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? B Message-ID: <1160500734.968871.92390@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E I would say an "undocumented feature" is a BUG (yuck), different from ? an "unsupported feature" which IS RIPE for exploitation (caveat  programmer).     Ransom Fitch   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2006 12:20:05 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? 3 Message-ID: <13Sm9KAP$0rz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1160499338.840907.212840@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com> writes: E > Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is > > this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"?  & Short answer:  It's the same as DELETE   Contrary example:     $ del*ete == "DELETE /CONFIRM"   $ del xyz.dat;*=  DELETE EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]XYZ.DAT;2 ? [N]: y =  DELETE EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]XYZ.DAT;1 ? [N]: y   $ create xyz.dat   ^Z   $ deletex xyz.dat;*  $     Longwinded explanation:   > DCL commands are parsed using only the first four letters.  So< DELETE, DELETEX, DELETERIOUS and DELE all do the same thing.  D [There are rumblings in the release notes every now and then hintingB that the parse could someday be extended to more than four lettersF and recommending that command procedures should spell out all commandsC completely.  But it's been a lot of years and the parse is still at  four letters].  C Some users or managers like to redefine DCL commands in the name of C safety or user friendliness.  [And some folks bristle at the notion 6 of doing such].  One not too uncommon redefinition is:   	$ DEL*ETE == "DELETE /CONFIRM"   A This means that if you type in $ DEL, $ DELE, $ DELET or $ DELETE * you'll get the $ DELETE /CONFIRM behavior.  H But if you creatively misspell DELETE and you get the first four lettersF right then you'll get the actual command rather than the redefinition.    A There are other ways to get a similar effect without going though @ the ugliness of mispelling commands in order to get them to work right.   $ DELETE = "DELETE"  $ DELETE XYZ.DAT;*   or  
 $ SET = "SET"  $ SET SYMBOL /VERB /SCOPE=LOCAL  $ DELETE XYZ.DAT;*   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:04:57 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> - Subject: Re: Which JAVA version to download ? 8 Message-ID: <34jni254ru8o2k0pdn0tq635ci243v51nd@4ax.com>  N On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:25:08 +0200, "gl@decadence.it" <gl@decadence.it> wrote:  9 >Il Mon, 02 Oct 2006 02:36:23 -0400, JF Mezei ha scritto: G >> Since I am a total newbee, I was wondering if there are any negative / >> aspects of downloading the newest version ?   > 8 >Older versions are kept only for compatibility reasons.@ >All Java code is runnable on 5.0, even if it was built for 1.1.& >All Java code except *very bad* code. > J >> Is there a reason why there has not been versions between 1.4.2 and 5.0 >> available on VMS ?  > ? >Versions between 1.4.2 and 5.0 simply does not exist anywhere. K >5.0 is also known as 1.5.0 with the leading 1. being dropped starting from ) >this release (the same for the beta 6.0)   L You can download & install all 3 versions. They do not step on one another'sK toes like e.g. trying to run various versions of COBOL. You can run a setup K program either at login to define which version to use or even just run the N setup program before invoking Java. So you can use all 3 versions at different$ times during a single logon session.  P Backwards compatibility with earlier versions of Java was not a strong issue. ItP wasn't merely "very bad" code that would break. Latterly the Java dream of write5 once & debug everywhere has been more or less true:-)    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.557 ************************