1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 11 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 559       Contents:+ Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"   Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS?  Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS?  Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS? Backup of open file  Re: Backup of open file  Re: Backup of open file  Re: Backup of open file  Re: Backup of open file 0 Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ?0 Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ?J Re: Copying BACKUP saveset from tape to disk with /BLOCKSIZE > 32767 bytes Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS6 Re: does Alphaserver DS10 have EV56 or later chip set?# Re: Excessive IO on my emulated vax F Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center!F Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center!F Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center!F Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center!F Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center!$ Re: Licensing question SSH vs Telnet$ Re: Licensing question SSH vs Telnet$ Re: Licensing question SSH vs Telnet Mpg123 0.60 for OpenVMS Alpha H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)H Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week)P Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) week)we Re: Outsourcing of VMS ? Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes) Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2 ) Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2 ) Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2 ) Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2  Re: USB hampster VAX 6000 still doesn't start Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? What PC Discovers Itanium   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:10:14 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket": Message-ID: <N_OdnReKqNvHlLDYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Todd wrote:   > Villy Madsen wrote:  > F >>> Ok, lets say you want to run a business, perhaps a small hamburgerD >>> stand.  If you want customers, you use the best ingredients and D >>> preparation.  If you're greedy, you scrape up dog turds off the L >>> sidewalk and put them on moldy bread.  Guess the outcome of each option. >>>  >>> GREED DOESN'T WORK!  >>>  >>> --  8 >>> David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450 >> >> >>7 >> actually greed does work - and that's the problem...  >  > H > No, actually:  greed (or some nicer euphemism for it) is the basis of K > capitalism, and an important ingredient in the historical success of our  
 > society. > J > But until recently it has not been the *only* important ingredient, and D > our society has been (or at least used to be) the better for that. >  >> >> Greed in a lot of places J >> 1)  That legalized gambling system called the stock market tied in withI >> 2) Corporate "C" level salaries and more importantly bonuese that are  9 >> in many cases completely out of touch with reality....  >>G >> CEO salaries (or more importantly bonuses) seem to be more and more  G >> tied in to stock performance.  The next quarter's performance!  not  C >> the next year's, or shudder the next decade's stock performance.  >>, >> So how long does the typical CEO last ??? >>F >> In other words - if letting go 25,000 employees shows a short term F >> gain in profits (or for any other reason is looked up as a postive J >> note by wall street) it's going to happen.  If, a year or two down the E >> road it causes the company untold angst - who cares..  The CEO is  H >> probably gone (or soon will be) - and he's already got his big bonus! >>I >> There was some discussion in a paper written by an audit type a while  I >> ago on this subject.  He pointed out that a CEO's bonus relating to a  E >> layoff was actually larger than the yearly salary of the laid off  H >> employees.  He questioned whether or not the employees had added any I >> value whatsover to the corporation.  If they had added value - in any  6 >> fashion, then the corporation had lost as a result. >>J >> CEOs typically take a short term view - if they can look like heros in - >> the short term - that's all that counts...  >  > H > Let me advance a very simplistic thesis that might actually have some K > truth to it:  the problem with all the above is the extremely short-term  I > horizon of investors, and that is a direct result of the change in the  + > capital-gains tax code in recent decades.  > J > IIRC, it used to be that short-term capital gains were anything under 5 J > years, and taxed far more heavily than longer-term capital gains.  This   F Short term capital gains have been "anything under six months" for at ! least the last forty-three years!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 06:34:18 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ) Subject: Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS? ; Message-ID: <452cc874$0$5915$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message6 news:451e8fcb$0$24177$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...  K As of 2006-10-10, still no SEPT-2006 distributions CD-ROMs from HP support.   , Has anyone else received their shipment yet?  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:15:36 -0700" From: "kczwei" <kaycee@kaycee.net>) Subject: Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS? C Message-ID: <1160576136.513861.292490@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    > Neil Rieck wrote: M > As of 2006-10-10, still no SEPT-2006 distributions CD-ROMs from HP support. . > Has anyone else received their shipment yet?  F I have not recieived my regular distribution either.  I started askingE email questions about 2-3 weeks ago and was getting nowhere.  So this G week I started calling different departments of HP.  I have 3 different  answers.G The contract people say that my annual renewal contract DID change this E year because HP no longer offers the automatic media distribution, so G they lowered my price.    Please login to ITRC and download VMS and ALL A the layered products.  I tried and it says i've not paid for that  service.  B 1-800-VMS-HELP says they know nothing about VMS media, nor nothingC about my contract, and not much about how to direct my call for VMS < help.  Please login to hp.com and look for the support page!  F DSPP says alpha distribution is not part of DSPP,  just call and orderB the media.  At least they gave me a valid number to order and knew@ immediately what i was looking for.  And they knew what VMS was.  G And one department has emailed back and said for some reason your media < distribution is not on your contract, we need to put it backG on.....which i'm willing to pay for, and have paid for many years.  But F this department is in contention with the other contract administrator, that says this service is no longer offered.  G Thankfully, I'm in no rush.  Usually this media comes too often, annual < distribution would probably be better than quarterly for me.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:32:53 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)) Subject: Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS? ) Message-ID: <egival$6sf$1@news.BelWue.DE>   h In article <1160576136.513861.292490@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "kczwei" <kaycee@kaycee.net> writes: >> Neil Rieck wrote:N >> As of 2006-10-10, still no SEPT-2006 distributions CD-ROMs from HP support./ >> Has anyone else received their shipment yet?  > G >I have not recieived my regular distribution either.  I started asking F >email questions about 2-3 weeks ago and was getting nowhere.  So thisH >week I started calling different departments of HP.  I have 3 different	 >answers.    Mine arrived today ;-)   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 00:44:09 -0700! From: "alok" <alok.net@gmail.com>  Subject: Backup of open fileB Message-ID: <1160552649.138232.327130@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Hi    A Is there any way to take a backup of an open file on Tape drive ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 04:01:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Backup of open file, Message-ID: <452CA49C.750DA219@teksavvy.com>   alok wrote: C > Is there any way to take a backup of an open file on Tape drive ?   6 BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK  filename.ext  backup.sav/save  H Note that this backs up only the blocks declared to be used in the file.  F So, if you have a process that has written 500 blocks of data in a newC file, but has not closed the file nor "flushed" the contents, (aka: G DIR/SIZE=ALL shows 0/500 blocks) then no data will be backed up because 9 the end of file marker is still at the start of the file.   ? And of course, backing up an opened file does not garantee file @ integrity now exactly what you will be backing up (eg: will lasrE tyecords be backed up or not, or in the case of an indexed file, will N the index be corrupted because it does not match the updated records etc etc).   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 03:52:37 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com>   Subject: Re: Backup of open fileC Message-ID: <1160563957.297933.143760@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   6 On Oct 11, 2:44 am, "alok" <alok....@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > C > Is there any way to take a backup of an open file on Tape drive ?    Alok,   E As JF mentioned, BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK will ignore the block/record C in use locks. While this will permit a backup to be taken, there is @ emphatically no guarantee that the backup in this way is usable.  B Many file operations involve multiple updates to individual files.G /IGNORE=INTERLOCK may preserve an inconsistent state of the file. It is D thus not recommended except in cases where there is no other choice,: and the side-effects of such problems are well understood.  ! I hope that the above is helpful.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:00:38 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: Backup of open file3 Message-ID: <L2XLqqtpv1If@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1160552649.138232.327130@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "alok" <alok.net@gmail.com> writes: > Hi   > C > Is there any way to take a backup of an open file on Tape drive ?  >        Yes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:20:13 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>   Subject: Re: Backup of open file: Message-ID: <xpWdnaisUNktlrDYnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>   alok wrote:    > Hi   > C > Is there any way to take a backup of an open file on Tape drive ?  >    $ BACKUP /IGNORE=INTERLOCK  G And God help you if it's open for write access and you need to restore  A it!  An open file is not guaranteed to be in a consistent state!!    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:50:40 GMT ) From: "John Vottero" <JVottero@mvpsi.com> 9 Subject: Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ? = Message-ID: <4x7Xg.10721$vJ2.5595@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>   ( <etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message < news:1160389644.978567.50970@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...E > Having spoken to one of the gentlemen who was involved with the VMS G > systems at CIE (Irish Railways), he said that the story was bogus and @ > that although they had had VMS systems for something like thatI > timescale, none of them had been up for the 17 years.  It also predated D > clustering, so it wouldn't be that the cluster had survived for 17 > years with system reboots.  H I was in the room at a DECUS Symposium when someone from Irish Railways M stood up, told the story and thanked OpenVMS Engineering for creating such a  9 reliable product.  Someone at Irish Railways is mistaken.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 10:02:24 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk9 Subject: Re: Cluster uptime - any improvement over this ? B Message-ID: <1160586144.618197.215830@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  B It would depend who your someone was, but I think he was mistaken.   Steve    John Vottero wrote: ) > <etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > > news:1160389644.978567.50970@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...G > > Having spoken to one of the gentlemen who was involved with the VMS I > > systems at CIE (Irish Railways), he said that the story was bogus and B > > that although they had had VMS systems for something like thatK > > timescale, none of them had been up for the 17 years.  It also predated F > > clustering, so it wouldn't be that the cluster had survived for 17 > > years with system reboots. > I > I was in the room at a DECUS Symposium when someone from Irish Railways N > stood up, told the story and thanked OpenVMS Engineering for creating such a; > reliable product.  Someone at Irish Railways is mistaken.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 14:09:13 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)S Subject: Re: Copying BACKUP saveset from tape to disk with /BLOCKSIZE > 32767 bytes , Message-ID: <452cfb09$1@news.langstoeger.at>  k In article <1160565986.859083.124420@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "armistej" <JArmistead@mail.com> writes: A >I have a number of old TK50 BACKUP tapes with savesets that have E >/BLOCKSIZE set to 32768.  From memory this /BLOCKSIZE was arrived at E >based on some information contained in one of the VMS manuals (maybe F >something about BACKUP performance tuning or a System Managers manual >from the VMS 5.x days)  > D >I believe that this is larger than RMS can handled for disk files -G >I've seen plenty of postings in the archives which say disk files must ( >have MRS and LRL less than 32767 bytes. > C >I get the dreaded the "%RMS-F-RSZ, invalid record size" error if I @ >simply use COPY to try and move the savesets from tape to disk. > H >Any ideas how to recover these savesets from tape and save them to diskF >while still keeping RMS happy and being able to use BACKUP if needed.  F That is the reason for the Saveset Manager Product (DCL Verb SAVESET).K Buy it (or better use a Loan PAK to copy all your savesets to the new tape)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:49:23 GMT ; From: "Duncan Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk>  Subject: Death of VMS > Message-ID: <Tv7Xg.33364$r61.27338@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  F I have been a DECUS member since the PDP-11 days before the first VAX.L Unfortunately the recent HP moves to get rid of a lot of the VMS developers  and E good support staff seem to me to be the final nail in the VMS coffin.   E The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joining  K Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because he  L enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have  been.   F The second nail was the replacement of technical management at DEC by  non-technical management.   J There have been many more nails following from the above of which the two  most important were the death F of the Alpha and the decision to go to the Itanium instead of the x86  family.   K From a personal point of view this has made my 25+ years of DEC experience  1 worth less than 2 years experience as an XP admin   
 R.I.P.   VMS     ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:01:31 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> Subject: Re: Death of VMS A Message-ID: <1160578891.220989.82280@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   E It is not yet known how many people have departed VMS related jobs in D HP nor how many remain. What is known is that some well known people are departing.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:47:19 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Death of VMS $ Message-ID: <egjan7$838$2@online.de>  F In article <Tv7Xg.33364$r61.27338@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, "Duncan6 Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:   G > The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joining  M > Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because he  N > enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have  > been.   F Cutler might have been an interesting character (I remember one quote H describing working with him as like being in a homoerotic cowboy movie, A for whatever that's worth), but didn't he leave after VMS 1.0 or  H something?  His contribution to VMS seems to be quite overrated, as far H as I can tell.  And what does NT have to do with this?  How many people  migrated from VMS to NT?   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:40:13 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)? Subject: Re: does Alphaserver DS10 have EV56 or later chip set? $ Message-ID: <egja9t$838$1@online.de>  
 In articleP <rdeininger-1010061936330001@dialup-4.233.128.239.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>,8 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   E > If a software product like Oracle claims to need EV56 or later, the L > requirement was probably defined and stated poorly.  There are better waysL > to find out if a system or CPU supports particular features that matter to > applications.   G Unless that restriction merely reflects which configurations have been   tested.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:45:48 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>, Subject: Re: Excessive IO on my emulated vax> Message-ID: <MPG.1f966b3b73214a0598972f@news.bellatlantic.net>  D In article <mmYWg.120439$1T2.95222@pd7urf2no>, Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca  says...  > @ > "John Santos" <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message : > news:MPG.1f9536e5b6455fd598972c@news.bellatlantic.net...F > > In article <FbjVg.95511$5R2.76633@pd7urf3no>, Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca > > says...  > >>? > >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message + > >> news:4525A308.D7C80C22@teksavvy.com... L > >> > Read through the patches for VAX 7.3. There is one (I think the "SYS"C > >> > one which mentions that the WBM thing is fixed by that patch  > >>O > >> I looked, and the delay location doesn't match the patch.  It talks about   > >> a5 > >> delay before the WBM thing, mine is afterwards..  > >>F > >> Having said that -I should probably patch the thing up to date... > >> > >> Villy.  > > F > > I used to get long delays while booting, installed the patch, longF > > delays went away.  This was so many years ago, I don't remember ifG > > it was V7.3 or what, but it was WBM-related and on VAXes.  (Booting I > > still takes a long time, but it's all the stuff *after* systartup_vms I > > takes control...  The WBM thing happens right at the beginning of the 
 > > boot.) > >  > >  > >  > > --   > > John >  > John >  > I installed the patches....  >     And I take it, they didn't help?  + > Also my long delay is after the WMB thing  >   G My long delay was after the WMB message (one of the 1st 3 or 4 messages B you see after booting) and before the next message, just so we are clear.  L > I'm still betting that it's a W/XP thing.  they have a bunch of hot fixes O > that address problems handling large files....   but they don't want to send  E > them to you until they are satisfied that it addresses the problem.  > 0 > I'm not ready to go through the hoops just yet >  > Villy  > Villy  >  >  >    --   John   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 01:20:37 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>O Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! A Message-ID: <1160554837.053449.79860@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   D isn't this what bruden (usa and europe) and parsec (usa) already do?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 04:39:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> O Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! , Message-ID: <452CAD7B.9A4D0D3D@teksavvy.com>   Ian Miller wrote:  > F > isn't this what bruden (usa and europe) and parsec (usa) already do?  G But with HP throwing away its formerly profitable service organisation, @ customers will be looking for reliable replacements for support.  D And while Bruden and Parsec may be good, are they worldwide and 7/24	 support ?   D What is needed now is to make up a list of VMS support organisatiosnE worldwide so that customers can seek an alternative to the apparently / unacceptable quality support now offered by HP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:03:05 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> O Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! ; Message-ID: <452ccf33$0$5913$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:452CAD7B.9A4D0D3D@teksavvy.com... > Ian Miller wrote:  >>G >> isn't this what bruden (usa and europe) and parsec (usa) already do?  > I > But with HP throwing away its formerly profitable service organisation, B > customers will be looking for reliable replacements for support. > F > And while Bruden and Parsec may be good, are they worldwide and 7/24 > support ?  > F > What is needed now is to make up a list of VMS support organisatiosnG > worldwide so that customers can seek an alternative to the apparently 1 > unacceptable quality support now offered by HP.   J In this era of extreme market capitalism, MBAs will ignore every argument F except sales statistics. You will not be a traitor for cancelling VMS J support, you will just be sending HP a signal that they have gone too far.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html      ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 05:15:25 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>O Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! C Message-ID: <1160568925.556191.285410@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: F > And while Bruden and Parsec may be good, are they worldwide and 7/24 > support ?  >   . I see that BRUDEN OSSG advertise 24x7 support. http://www.brudenossg.com/   and so do PARSEC) http://www.parsec.com/openvms/support.php    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:25:33 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> O Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! 4 Message-ID: <eginru$2ip$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Ian Miller wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  > F >>And while Bruden and Parsec may be good, are they worldwide and 7/24 >>support ?  >> >  > 0 > I see that BRUDEN OSSG advertise 24x7 support. > http://www.brudenossg.com/ >  > and so do PARSEC+ > http://www.parsec.com/openvms/support.php   - (Excuse the plug ... I work for this company)   ( As does Trinity Expert Systems in the UK6 http://www.tesl.com/MVS/Multi-vendor+services+home.htm   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 03:57:46 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> - Subject: Re: Licensing question SSH vs Telnet A Message-ID: <1160564266.599459.18120@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   2 On Oct 10, 2:30 pm, "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbtur...@islandco.com> wrote:J > Does anyone know about the requirements for Concurrent User licenses for > SSH? > K > Our customer needs one Concurrent User License per Telnet session whereas 8 > there was no obvious requirement when running multiple > SSH sessions. ! > Can anyone elaborate on this???  >  > Thanks >  > -- >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbtur...@islandco.com > Web:http://www.islandco.com ' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditionsU > of sale. These should be read before ordering.http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    David,  E I would concur with Larry's earlier posting. Historically, there have B been occasional loopholes in the counts through one access path orD another. They have invariablybeen fixed at some future time. I wouldC not recommend a customer depending on them to remain open in future 	 versions.   G It sounds like a bug in the SSH implementation. Several years ago, some - telnet implementations had a similar feature.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 14:05:44 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: Licensing question SSH vs Telnet , Message-ID: <452cfa38$1@news.langstoeger.at>  m In article <1160564266.599459.18120@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> writes: H >It sounds like a bug in the SSH implementation. Several years ago, some. >telnet implementations had a similar feature.  L It is a bug and not the only one. Eg. SSH is counted as OTHER or NETWORK andM not as INTERACTIVE (or better REMOTE) User. And one even needs SYSUAF NETWORK M access to login via SSH (while for TELNET a INTERACTIVE - or REMOTE? - access  is sufficient and appropriate)   just my 0.02   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:27:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: Licensing question SSH vs Telnet 3 Message-ID: <UpMrp8mGnC2H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <452cfa38$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: o > In article <1160564266.599459.18120@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> writes: I >>It sounds like a bug in the SSH implementation. Several years ago, some / >>telnet implementations had a similar feature.   E I think the underlying bug there is a _performance_ bug, since in the C way it seems to me that must work to get this effect, there will be . various performance inefficiencies introduced.  D Perhaps that performance bug was introduced due to customer pressure for a _quick_ implementation.   N > It is a bug and not the only one. Eg. SSH is counted as OTHER or NETWORK andO > not as INTERACTIVE (or better REMOTE) User. And one even needs SYSUAF NETWORK O > access to login via SSH (while for TELNET a INTERACTIVE - or REMOTE? - access   > is sufficient and appropriate)  D That behavior indicates to me that there are likely also a series ofB underlying _security_ bugs in whatever SSH implementation is beingB discussed.  I think security bugs in the process of implementing aA security feature are much less permissible than performance bugs.  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 14:43:15 +0100R From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, DTI Athis ex CENA, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)& Subject: Mpg123 0.60 for OpenVMS Alpha! Message-ID: <qmIHn$g9Jp8M@sinead>    Hello,  M mpg123 V 0.60, the new version of the fast mpeg audio player is available for K OpenVMS Alpha, including Mark Berryman new VMS audio driver. Available with 7 OpenVMs 7.2-1 Alpha binaries at the DECwindows Archive:   $ http://decwarch.free.fr/decwnew.html   Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:27:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) 3 Message-ID: <SkOWYt2$bygl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:m >> In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >> >G >> > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweet J >> > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one! >> > >>- >>    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around?  > I > I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. It I > comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VT I > terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected 
 > via telnet!  > C    How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue 	    that)?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:16:40 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) B Message-ID: <1160576200.427076.41420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:l > In article <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote:o > >> In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > >> >I > >> > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweet L > >> > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one! > >> > > >>/ > >>    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around?  > > K > > I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. It K > > comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VT K > > terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected  > > via telnet!  > > E >    How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue  >    that)?   # Well, that's going to take a while!   B For now, I copied to USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 on decuserve.G NOTE: Make sure your terminal is set to dark background before you TYPE  it!    AEF    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2006 14:25:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) + Message-ID: <4p4d6oFgpgefU2@individual.net>   B In article <1160576200.427076.41420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > Bob Koehler wrote:m >> In article <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >> > Bob Koehler wrote: p >> >> In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >> >> > J >> >> > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweetM >> >> > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one!  >> >> >  >> >> 0 >> >>    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around? >> >L >> > I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. ItL >> > comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VTL >> > terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected >> > via telnet! >> >F >>    How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue >>    that)? > % > Well, that's going to take a while!  > D > For now, I copied to USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 on decuserve.I > NOTE: Make sure your terminal is set to dark background before you TYPE  > it!  >   I If it's not copyrighted or anything I would be glad to put it up where it 7 can be grabbed from my web page.  Just Email me a copy.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:19:52 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) @ Message-ID: <1160576392.124169.9870@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   Paul Sture wrote: E > In article <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, ( >  "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >  > > Bob Koehler wrote:O > > > In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" & > > > <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > > > > J > > > > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweetM > > > > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one!  > > > >  > > > 0 > > >    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around? > > K > > I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. It K > > comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VT K > > terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected  > > via telnet!  > J > ISTR faking a real VT by using an emulator connected to a serial port at > 9600 baud. >  > -- > Paul Sture  D You're right. I think that should work fine. Except that the mysteryG bonus trailer has one sequence that might not give the right effect. It F might be fine -- I'm not really sure. I'll try it later today the next time I'm up in my data center.   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:39:52 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) C Message-ID: <1160581192.476512.146320@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Roy Omond wrote: > AEF wrote: >  > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > [...snip...]G > >>   How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue 
 > >>   that)?  > >  > > ' > > Well, that's going to take a while!  > > F > > For now, I copied to USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 on decuserve.K > > NOTE: Make sure your terminal is set to dark background before you TYPE  > > it!  > ( > $ type USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1H > %TYPE-W-OPENIN, error opening USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 as inputA > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation  >  > :-(   ) Sorry! Default on Decuserve is w=nothing.   , Fixed. Please try again. My apologies!!! &-)   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:43:42 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) C Message-ID: <1160581422.330188.280830@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote: > Roy Omond wrote: > > AEF wrote: > >  > > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > > [...snip...]I > > >>   How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue  > > >>   that)?  > > >  > > > ) > > > Well, that's going to take a while!  > > > H > > > For now, I copied to USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 on decuserve.M > > > NOTE: Make sure your terminal is set to dark background before you TYPE 	 > > > it!  > > * > > $ type USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1J > > %TYPE-W-OPENIN, error opening USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 as inputC > > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation  > >  > > :-(  > + > Sorry! Default on Decuserve is w=nothing.  > . > Fixed. Please try again. My apologies!!! &-) >  > AEF    Here's another:    $ DIR/SEC *.ESC   ) USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]HAPPY_NEW_YEAR.ESC;1   G That's all I have. Both should work now. Again, apologies for the goof!    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:30:20 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> Q Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-53FC4F.17302011102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B In article <1160576200.427076.41420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,&  "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote:N > > In article <1160483905.474659.132870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" $ > > <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > > > Bob Koehler wrote:K > > >> In article <1160446289.851115.160850@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  - > > >> "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > > >> >K > > >> > Then there's the VT animation of the Enterprise gettings its sweet N > > >> > revenge upon RCA, NBC's parent company at the time. That's a fun one! > > >> > > > >>1 > > >>    I haven't seen that one.  Is it around?  > > > M > > > I have a copy and will be happy to email it to whoever wants a copy. It M > > > comes with a bonus mystery trailer! You have to run it on a bonafide VT M > > > terminal, though. It runs way too fast on a terminal emulator connected  > > > via telnet!  > > > G > >    How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue 
 > >    that)?  > % > Well, that's going to take a while!  > D > For now, I copied to USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 on decuserve.I > NOTE: Make sure your terminal is set to dark background before you TYPE  > it!  >   0 Thank you. Now where did I put those cables? :-)   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:14:27 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> Y Subject: Re: OT: Babylon-5 (was Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week) week)we 4 Message-ID: <egj1oj$fpo$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  
 AEF wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote: > [...snip...]E >>   How about putting it on the Freeware (assuming Hoff can continue  >>   that)?  >  > % > Well, that's going to take a while!  > D > For now, I copied to USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 on decuserve.I > NOTE: Make sure your terminal is set to dark background before you TYPE  > it!   & $ type USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1F %TYPE-W-OPENIN, error opening USR_SCRATCH:[FELDMAN]TREK.ESC;1 as input? -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation    :-(    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 05:42:46 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) ! Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS ? 8 Message-ID: <qv%Wg.46250$DU3.24616@tornado.texas.rr.com>  ) Bill Gunshannon (bill@cs.uofs.edu) wrote:  : F : I have a problem with bringing in all these foreigners to do the funG : high tech jobs while telling Americans; "Don't study computer science I : in school because there are no jobs waiting for you when you graduate." J : And, trust me, that is precisely what is happening.  IT jobs are sittingL : un-filled and the Bureau of Labor Statistics is predicting large increasesJ : over the next 8-10 years while CS/CIS enrollments are down anywhere fromH : 40 to 70 percent and continuing to slide.  And in the meantime, ratherJ : than coming out in the press and publicly debunking this (god only knowsF : why, but people listen when Bill Gates speaks) companies like MS are2 : busy lobbying for more visas to fill these jobs. : D : And you thought the immigration problem was all about Mexicans andF : minimum wage jobs!!  Even in this little backwater part of the worldE : that most people couldn't even point out on a map we have companies E : where English is not spoken within the confines of the Datacenter.   : And neither is Spanish!! :   + Here's a report from the GAO on offshoring:   .   http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-06-423,   OFFSHORING U.S. Semiconductor and Software4   Industries Increasingly Produce in China and India  D CWA Local 4250 has a great site on offshoring and non-immigrant work visas:  3   http://www.cwalocal4250.org/outsourcing/index.cfm    CWA Local 4250 - Fight Back   E Rob Sanchez, an opponent of offshoring, and H-1B & L-1 non-immigrant  B work visas has a good site where you can site up for his free Job  Destruction Newsletter     http://www.zazona.com/   ZaZona Directory  < Dr. Paul Craig Roberts has just published an article on what' jobs data shows about the U.S. economy:   .   http://www.vdare.com/roberts/061009_jobs.htmA   VDARE.com: 10/09/06 - Jobs Data Show Mounting Economic Problems   2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:33:16 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes ) Message-ID: <op.tg9j5qxptte90l@hyrrokkin>   E On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:36:23 -0700, <apogeusistemas@gmail.com> wrote:   	 > Hi all:  > ' >    I have to read 100 magnetic tapes.  > 2 >    My intention is read one tape, save data to a > 1 >    directory and create a save_set and zip this  > E >    save_set with pkzip and send to a W2K server (big space to store  > data). > 0 >    I'll make this task 100 times. (100 tapes). > + >    I'd like know if I'll have reliability % >   in this process. What you think ?  >   Regards  >    Why?   --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:52:31 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes C Message-ID: <1160581951.297497.227620@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   1 I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape.  How old and what sort of tape?   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 08:57:05 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes B Message-ID: <1160582225.654680.275810@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Ian Miller wrote: 3 > I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape.   > How old and what sort of tape?  ; They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 09:28:48 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes C Message-ID: <1160584128.467556.268670@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Roy Omond wrote:! > apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:  >  > > Ian Miller wrote:  > > 5 > >>I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape. " > >>How old and what sort of tape? > > ? > > They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old.  > > > In a paradoxical way (assuming I understand what "tapes withB > tape seal" means i.e. 9-track tape), this might be your saviour. > > > Backup will be able to use CRC to reconstruct data from tapeA > "bad spots" (which you're almost certainly going to encounter), > > whereas had the tapes been DLT, you'd have been scuppered by! > the first bad spot on the tape.  >  > In any case, good luck.   C Sorry, they are 9-track tapes ( I didn't knew English terminology -  here in & Brazil they are named "fita de rolo".)  , This tapes haves sets - 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, etc.  # Need I read them in this sequence ?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 09:11:50 -0700; From: "William.W.Webb@gmail.com" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> ' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes C Message-ID: <1160583110.001884.196000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:  > Ian Miller wrote: 5 > > I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape. " > > How old and what sort of tape? > = > They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old.    No.  What *kind* of tapes?   9-track reels, or what?   ) Questions you need to ask the management:    How valuable is this data?  A If it's above and beyond daily backups, they may want to consider A having a data recovery service do this, as old tapes can be quite E fragile and may be irreversibly damaged if ordinary equipment is used B to read them (they can shed their oxide instead of giving up their data.)   WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:12:32 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> ' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes 4 Message-ID: <egj55h$k9j$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:    > Ian Miller wrote:  > 3 >>I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape.   >>How old and what sort of tape? > = > They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old.   < In a paradoxical way (assuming I understand what "tapes with@ tape seal" means i.e. 9-track tape), this might be your saviour.  < Backup will be able to use CRC to reconstruct data from tape? "bad spots" (which you're almost certainly going to encounter), < whereas had the tapes been DLT, you'd have been scuppered by the first bad spot on the tape.    In any case, good luck.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:42:00 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes ) Message-ID: <op.tg9ncajette90l@hyrrokkin>   G On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:43:23 -0700, Bob Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com>    wrote:  6 > On Oct 11, 10:36 am, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote:
 >> Hi all: >>( >>    I have to read 100 magnetic tapes. >>3 >>    My intention is read one tape, save data to a  >>2 >>    directory and create a save_set and zip this >>F >>    save_set with pkzip and send to a W2K server (big space to store	 >> data).  >>1 >>    I'll make this task 100 times. (100 tapes).  >>, >>    I'd like know if I'll have reliability >>' >>    in this process. What you think ?  >>
 >>    Regards  >  > apogeusistemas,  > C > I am familiar with and understand the language issue (have worked H > internationally, and am presently in Montreal -- speaking on behalf ofD > the IEEE Computer Society -- my high school French is getting some > use).  > G > First, I would determine what is the format of the tapes. If they are F > indeed BACKUP tapes, I would not copy the contents of the tapes to aI > disk file directly. I would strongly recommend (for each set of tapes):  > - creating a logical disk . > - restoring the backup onto the logical disk3 > - creating a new backup set from the logical disk G > - using ZIP (with the "-V" option) to reduce the size of the save set A > and create an overall CRC-32 for transport through your network G > - then copy the data to multiple archive locations (e.g., CDROM, DVD,  > and mass storage) @ > - For each set, I would process each of the archived copies byB > unpacking and restoring to a logical disk to ensure that the new  > archives are valid and useable > G > Needless to say, I would recommend extreme care with the tapes, and a F > careful check of the tape drive before use. From your posting, theseC > tapes appear to have valuable data, and I would recommend extreme ? > caution. A mistake could easily create a lost data situation.  > # > I hope that the above is helpful.  > & > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com > -  > F The OP hasn't revealed what is on the tapes.  If, for example, it wereJ ascii text, like source code, then step three above could be replaced withG vmstar, thus making the information more generally available on other    systems      --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 09:54:13 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes A Message-ID: <1160585652.951557.31140@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Tom Linden wrote: G > On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:43:23 -0700, Bob Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com>  > wrote: > 8 > > On Oct 11, 10:36 am, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Hi all: > >>* > >>    I have to read 100 magnetic tapes. > >>5 > >>    My intention is read one tape, save data to a  > >>4 > >>    directory and create a save_set and zip this > >>H > >>    save_set with pkzip and send to a W2K server (big space to store > >> data).  > >>3 > >>    I'll make this task 100 times. (100 tapes).  > >>. > >>    I'd like know if I'll have reliability > >>) > >>    in this process. What you think ?  > >> > >>    Regards  > >  > > apogeusistemas,  > > E > > I am familiar with and understand the language issue (have worked J > > internationally, and am presently in Montreal -- speaking on behalf ofF > > the IEEE Computer Society -- my high school French is getting some	 > > use).  > > I > > First, I would determine what is the format of the tapes. If they are H > > indeed BACKUP tapes, I would not copy the contents of the tapes to aK > > disk file directly. I would strongly recommend (for each set of tapes):  > > - creating a logical disk 0 > > - restoring the backup onto the logical disk5 > > - creating a new backup set from the logical disk I > > - using ZIP (with the "-V" option) to reduce the size of the save set C > > and create an overall CRC-32 for transport through your network I > > - then copy the data to multiple archive locations (e.g., CDROM, DVD,  > > and mass storage) B > > - For each set, I would process each of the archived copies byD > > unpacking and restoring to a logical disk to ensure that the new" > > archives are valid and useable > > I > > Needless to say, I would recommend extreme care with the tapes, and a H > > careful check of the tape drive before use. From your posting, theseE > > tapes appear to have valuable data, and I would recommend extreme A > > caution. A mistake could easily create a lost data situation.  > > % > > I hope that the above is helpful.  > > ( > > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com > > -  > > H > The OP hasn't revealed what is on the tapes.  If, for example, it wereL > ascii text, like source code, then step three above could be replaced withG > vmstar, thus making the information more generally available on other 	 > systems  >  >  > --G > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/   F This tapes contains VMS backups (source codes, executable images, .dat files).    Thanks folks to your support.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 09:43:23 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> ' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes B Message-ID: <1160585003.618404.41750@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  4 On Oct 11, 10:36 am, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote:	 > Hi all:  > ' >    I have to read 100 magnetic tapes.  > 2 >    My intention is read one tape, save data to a > 1 >    directory and create a save_set and zip this  > E >    save_set with pkzip and send to a W2K server (big space to store  > data). > 0 >    I'll make this task 100 times. (100 tapes). > + >    I'd like know if I'll have reliability  > & >    in this process. What you think ? >  >    Regards   apogeusistemas,   A I am familiar with and understand the language issue (have worked F internationally, and am presently in Montreal -- speaking on behalf ofB the IEEE Computer Society -- my high school French is getting some use).   E First, I would determine what is the format of the tapes. If they are D indeed BACKUP tapes, I would not copy the contents of the tapes to aG disk file directly. I would strongly recommend (for each set of tapes):  - creating a logical disk , - restoring the backup onto the logical disk1 - creating a new backup set from the logical disk E - using ZIP (with the "-V" option) to reduce the size of the save set ? and create an overall CRC-32 for transport through your network E - then copy the data to multiple archive locations (e.g., CDROM, DVD,  and mass storage) > - For each set, I would process each of the archived copies by@ unpacking and restoring to a logical disk to ensure that the new archives are valid and useable  E Needless to say, I would recommend extreme care with the tapes, and a D careful check of the tape drive before use. From your posting, theseA tapes appear to have valuable data, and I would recommend extreme = caution. A mistake could easily create a lost data situation.   ! I hope that the above is helpful.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com -    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 01:24:04 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>2 Subject: Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2C Message-ID: <1160555044.782087.143190@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    See alsoL http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1066114   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 01:25:37 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>2 Subject: Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2B Message-ID: <1160555137.591036.51050@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   See alsoL http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1066114   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:38:06 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 20 Message-ID: <00A5D090.A783C0CF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <004a01c6ec9b$b20759b0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>, "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> writes: >  >  >>... C >> I just noticed that a new version of SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation , >> Release 2 is available for download from: >>8 >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html >>" >> p.s. I haven't installed it yet >>...  > 7 >When you do install it you have to make sure you copy  N >samba_root:[backup]smb.conf to samba_root:[lib] after you do the install and I >then restart Samba. Other than that I have not yet seen any problems on   >Alpha or IA64.   0 I don't have this samba_root:[backup] directory. --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:32:44 -0400 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> 2 Subject: Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 26 Message-ID: <0f6601c6ed52$e1b38e60$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>   >>>...D >>> I just noticed that a new version of SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation- >>> Release 2 is available for download from:  >>> 9 >>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html  >>> # >>> p.s. I haven't installed it yet  >>>... >>7 >>When you do install it you have to make sure you copy K >>samba_root:[backup]smb.conf to samba_root:[lib] after you do the install   >>and I >>then restart Samba. Other than that I have not yet seen any problems on  >>Alpha or IA64. > 2 > I don't have this samba_root:[backup] directory. > --  3 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 5 >  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  >   G I had the directory created on both the IA64 and AXP installs but both  L systems had a previous Samba installation on them and both had modified the  smb.conf files.    Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca 9 CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:37:19 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Subject: Re: USB hampster - Message-ID: <js6Xg.57$1k1.61@news.oracle.com>   \ In article <452BFA0C.5F00C8E1@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  H >> 1) As I have said I do not know what the magic is to get the built inF >>    USB in the DS10 and DS10L working.  Sorry that is the way it is. > * >Well, that is not good enough :-( :-( :-( > G >We'll have to mount a jihad to get HP to find the magic incantation to E >release that USB port from the hidden dungeon of the DS10L firmware.   B As someone who uses DS10s and wants to use USB, I can to a limitedC extent sympathize with people who want to activate the built-in USB @ port.  From a practical standpoint, is is a lot quicker, easier,B and much more reliable to plug in a third-party board with the NECG chip (I use some I got from MCM, but there are many of them out there).   E >What is needed is an external PCI box that plugs into the single PCI 2 >slot in the DS10L. Then we could plugs things in.  A This is an entirely separate issue.  I don't know if anyone makes > a general-purpose PCI extender, but it's possible that someoneB does.  I'd look for companies that supply PC based control systems
 for industry.   F >But since the DS10 already has a USB plug/hardware, it is just a realG >shame that it has been purposefully disabled. TO me, it soulds like it K >was the same employee who decided to put expoy glue in some bus connector.   C It doesn't sound like that to me at all.  If you had any experience A or knowlege of the hardware development process, and the time and @ work that occurs between the initial board layout and integratedD circuit selection, and the point at which the fully assembled systemB can be tested, you would know that sometimes things don't work outA the way you wanted or expected them to.  At the time the DS10 and D related systems were developed, USB wasn't nearly as important as itC is now, especially on "Enterprise" systems.  Lots of DS10 and DS10L E systems were built for rack mount, not desktop, where someone walking B up to the box and plugging in some random USB device wasn't likely
 to happen.  E And to answer someone else's comment: you can't just pull the package D off of the board.  In many cases, the signals provided by the IC areE expected (or required) by other circuits on the board.  And replacing C the IC with a better one requires that the replacement have exactly F the same electrical, physical, and logical interface: or else you haveD to re-design and re-tool the mother board.  Does anyone really thinkC that back when the DS10 was released that the majority of customers ? would have paid more for a DS10 in order to get some USB ports?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:27:56 -0700 ( From: Ian King <iking@cs.washington.edu>% Subject: VAX 6000 still doesn't start 1 Message-ID: <J6z9pK.rHn@beaver.cs.washington.edu>    All,  0 In the continuing saga of one man's VAX 6660....  G To quickly recap: when powered up, the machine's front panel lights up  G for about five seconds, then goes dark; the fans continue to run.  The  F H7206B shows an error LED claiming there's an XMI-1 card in the XMI-2 H backplane; examination shows this is not true, and the same error shows I even with NO cards in the XMI backplane.  The H7214 and H7242 regulators  G show DC OK for that five seconds, then go dark.  The H7215 never shows  H DC OK.  This machine also has VAXBI, and that side's regulators show DC G OK; I swapped the H7215s between XMI and VAXBI, and either H7215 works  % on the BI side, but not the XMI side.   A The last thing I was asked was: does the XMI-side H7215 show ANY  @ activity, i.e. hook up a scope to its output and see if it ever D flickers.  I did this, and the answer is yes: there is a very brief > output voltage (I tried this on three different output lines).  I I've replaced the H7206B AND the control/status cable between the H7206B  I and the XMI regulators AND the XTC sequencer.  I've compared voltages at  H the various pins of the control connector on the respective H7215s and, H while they differ, I do not have any information that tells me which is  which.  D So I'm still hoping to find someone who has deeper knowledge of the B power system and is willing to share.  I really wish I could find A someone with schematics of the H7206B and XTC sequencer, as it's  I plausible that the replacements don't work, either.  In fact, the H7206B  G has an odd symptom: its internal fan does not turn.  I had intended to  I replace it but, for some reason, decided to test the existing fan before  I I did: it worked fine on a bench supply.  It looks like it feeds off the  I same 24v as the big cabinet fans (which I've verified are really powered  @ and turning).  This symptom exists in both the original and the  replacement.  F Does anyone perhaps have any additional service information in an old F box of fiche?  (I have all the usual "owner's documentation," such as H the technical information manual, maintenance guide, etc.)  Schematics, / or at least logic diagrams, would sure help....   E Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on the saga of my large   room fan....  -- Ian  . iking (at-thing) killthewabbit (dot-thing) org   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:58:44 +0200 ; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 9 Message-ID: <452cc174$0$19717$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   & <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message= news:1160514592.547070.153550@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  >  > Laura wrote:  > > To all VMS/TRU64 UNIX users:I > > There is an alternative to HP ---- PARSEC Group, located in Denver CO  >  > * > do you offer support by item ... such as >  > 1. vms base support  > 2. decnet phase IV > 3. DQS  ! That's what we do at BRUDEN-OSSG.   @ Our support plans vary based on the customer requirements, going> from per call to 24X7 business critical level. BRUDEN supports0 base O/S as well as most of the LPs & compilers.  	 Guy Peleg  BRUDEN-OSSG  http://www.brudenossg.com    > = > and on the same fee level as HP for silver or bronze level?  >        --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 06:53:39 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India ; Message-ID: <452cccfe$0$5898$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   1 "Laura" <lmcgaughey@parsec.com> wrote in message  < news:1160502050.072274.51830@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > To all VMS/TRU64 UNIX users:G > There is an alternative to HP ---- PARSEC Group, located in Denver CO  > -- > I > PARSEC Group is the only HP Authorized Independent Training Partner, HP F > Solutions Alliance Partner & Microsoft Certified Technical EducationH > Center to earn Microsoft Gold Certified Partner for Enterprise SystemsH > in the World!  We offer expertise in OpenVMS, Microsoft BackOffice andF > Tru64 UNIX, to name a few.  Our Trainers Consult and Our ConsultantsG > Train.  We also offer 24x7 support contracts for our clients, as well G > as, business reviews/audits in IT processes, Disaster Recovery, Virus G > Detection/Tracking, System Monitoring, Server & Desktop Environments, 9 > e-Mail implementation, Back-up/Recovery procedures etc.  > G > PARSEC can implement, migrate and integrate multiple platforms.  Over G > 85% of our training classes are customized to the customers needs and C > 100% of our consulting/service is customized applications for our E > clients and we guarantee 100% satisfaction to all of our customers.  > G > We have over 200 current support customers; assisted over 700 clients > > with selection of enterprise network; trained over 15,000 IT@ > Professionals and have held over 700 on-site training classes. >   > Check us out at www.parsec.com >   M I hope HP realizes that most people will be purchasing support from only one  C vendor. If they sign up with you, they will be dropping HP support.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:05:26 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India ; Message-ID: <452ccfc0$0$5932$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   1 "Laura" <lmcgaughey@parsec.com> wrote in message  < news:1160502050.072274.51830@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > To all VMS/TRU64 UNIX users:G > There is an alternative to HP ---- PARSEC Group, located in Denver CO  > -- > I > PARSEC Group is the only HP Authorized Independent Training Partner, HP F > Solutions Alliance Partner & Microsoft Certified Technical EducationH > Center to earn Microsoft Gold Certified Partner for Enterprise SystemsH > in the World!  We offer expertise in OpenVMS, Microsoft BackOffice andF > Tru64 UNIX, to name a few.  Our Trainers Consult and Our ConsultantsG > Train.  We also offer 24x7 support contracts for our clients, as well G > as, business reviews/audits in IT processes, Disaster Recovery, Virus G > Detection/Tracking, System Monitoring, Server & Desktop Environments, 9 > e-Mail implementation, Back-up/Recovery procedures etc.  > G > PARSEC can implement, migrate and integrate multiple platforms.  Over G > 85% of our training classes are customized to the customers needs and C > 100% of our consulting/service is customized applications for our E > clients and we guarantee 100% satisfaction to all of our customers.  > G > We have over 200 current support customers; assisted over 700 clients > > with selection of enterprise network; trained over 15,000 IT@ > Professionals and have held over 700 on-site training classes. >   > Check us out at www.parsec.com >   J In this era of extreme market capitalism, MBAs will ignore every argument G except sales statistics. You will not be a traitor for cancelling HP's  L flavour of VMS support, you will just be sending HP a signal that they have 
 gone too far.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 06:16:33 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 3 Message-ID: <hNezuL4nbd0l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <452cc174$0$19717$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> writes:  > B > Our support plans vary based on the customer requirements, going@ > from per call to 24X7 business critical level. BRUDEN supports2 > base O/S as well as most of the LPs & compilers. >   F With a third party support solution, what happens when the fix to yourD problem is a required code change in the VMS or layered product code: along with the issuing of a patch with the modified code ?  J Even though I'm a small customer by VMS standards, this has still happened/ to me on more than one occasion over the years.    Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP K If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:05:37 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 0 Message-ID: <12ipnglg808nb41@news.supernews.com>  G In many cases, such as an ES40, it is easier to ship a whole tested box H (motherboard. CPU and P/Supplies) and worry about the problem at a later date. L Believe it or not, it is still cheaper for us to go into the warehouse, testI a box and Fedex P1 overnight it than calling out an HP service tech for 4  hours    Honestly !!!!!!!!!!!       --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message4 news:9POdnQhsUPOlzbHYnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com.../ > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > I > > I don't know if it  is going to be cost-effective for us to hire some  VMS I > > engineering people, but judging by the amount of very experienced VMS K > > consultants out there, I think our consultant web page may come in very  > > useful.  > > K > > Out of curiosity, what would you all say was the percentage of hardware ) > > versus software support requirements?  > > D > > Reason I am asking is that we have a couple of next-day delivery hardwareH > > support contracts, which work by our customer keeping spares that we sold to L > > them then we replenish within 1 year/2 years etc whatever their contract > > period may be. > > B > > My guess is that 90% of all support issues come about from bad hardware....G > > something very very easy to fix with the amount of current and last H > > generation hardware floating about and in stock at our warehouse and other D > > reputable dealers in the worldwide "used" equipment marketplace. > > 5 > > It also brings me to ask about software upgrades.  > > L > > I have talked to many many Federal Government installations that pay forG > > maintenance but are still running VMS 6.2 ~ and never used software  support. > > K > > We all know HP knows that and I believe they are taking a gamble on the  FedsI > > not even noticing that they are paying excessively for a service they  will > > never receive./ > > That is HP's biggest cash cow right there !  > > K > > I can tell you this from experience - many Navy installations, Army and  Air F > > Force call us about issues with VMS even though we don't yet offer SOFTWAREK > > SUPPORT. We normally find the answer by asking consultants for a 1 hour I > > billing etc. They should be using VMS support but have no idea who to  > > contact. > > 6 > > Damn it . I wish we had those kind of customers!!! > >  > >  > > :0|  > >  > > DT > > 
 > > Comments?  > >  > > 2 > > "VMSguy" <vmsguy@comcast.net> wrote in message( > > news:452C04C0.3060606@comcast.net... > > C > >>"Moving Pains" - wasn't that a comedy series on TV awhile back?  > >>I > >>My response - then cut my support contract to 10% of what it is now -  that( > >>is what I feel the service is worth. > >>K > >>Now mind you the end result was the same, my problem was identified and 
 > >>resolved.  > >>J > >>I expect better service up front - I do not need to talk shop with theE > >>"operator" but I do expect that "operator" to know the difference  between H > >>a hardware or software problem - and if it is un-determinable at theK > >>initial onset, then assume it is software and work it from there.  I do B > >>not want to have to explain how the process should work to the "operator".  > >> > >>JF Mezei wrote:  > >> > >> > >>>Rich Jordan wrote:  > >>>  > >>> K > >>>>Thanks for that.  I already wrote the board contact email, as well as L > >>>>Hurd's, concerning our two service calls under the new situation (bothB > >>>>disastrously slow and inept).  This will be worth doing too. > >>>> > >>>  > >>> E > >>>While this and Sue's web pointer are very important, you need to J > >>>remember that when you outsource to new employees, you have to expectH > >>>problems initially, with a promise that within X time, the new guys will9 > >>>have ramped up and service problems will be reduced.  > >>> G > >>>So complaints at this point in time would be interpreted by uppper ' > >>>management as just "moving pains". L > >>>What will REALLY make an impact is when customers write after a magicalF > >>>number of days/weeks with statements such as "we were tolerant ofI > >>>problems while you moved your support to new people, but that excuse  has 1 > >>>now expired and the problems still persist".  > >>> I > >>>Also, since these guys would be dialing in from India, make sure you K > >>>enable virtual terminals on the modem line. Unless they restrict modem K > >>>speed to 9600 or lower, there are very good chances that the line will G > >>>be unstable and drop (or modem spending inordinate amounts of time K > >>>retraining speed due to error rate). No matter how much fibre there is 8 > >>>between India and USA, there is still a time delay. > >>> L > >>>One solution would be for HP to provide dial-out banks in north america$ > >>>for those indian drones to use. > >>>  > >>>  > >  > >  > >  > D > Often, when you have a hardware problem, you need an engineer who:  > a. knows which part to replace > b. has the part " > c. knows how to replace the part > C > Yes, some of that stuff is simple enough that even I could do it.  > " > Many times service consisted of:6 > a. I replaced the failing (StorageWorks) disk drive.4 > b. A messenger showed up with a replacement drive.> > c. I gave him the dead drive and he gave me the replacement. > J > Trouble is, some of it isn't that simple.  I recall the case of the ES40I > that wouldn't boot and showed the wrong clock frequency at the console. H >   If you replaced the Lithium coin cell (2032??) on the I/O backplane,I > it would boot.  It ate a lithium cell every six weeks or so.  It turned H > out   that there was a crushed pin that should have supplied -12 voltsI > to the I/O backplane and no longer did so. The lithium cell carried the G > load for six weeks or so and died. If I had had to find that one, I'd H > still be replacing lithium cells every six weeks.  It took a couple of> > CEs plus their telephone support guy to track that one down.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:47:24 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 3 Message-ID: <it49+DG5936w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <452C02AD.7B2E68D9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > Something to think about here: > I > We are starting to see ads here for proper VMS support. And even if not H > presented as an actual advertising, the end result is the same. We allE > know about Bruden "On Shore Support". And we now know about Parsec.  > < > How long before Process chimes in and offers support too ?  I    They will be added to a long list of those of us who would be glad to      have your business.  F    I don't know of any per-call work, but I do know my employer is notG    the only one with contracts which provide the first line of support.   D    So I suspect you'll find plenty of per-call and other arangements!    if HP doens't meet your needs.   F    And maybe someday VMS will go he same route as Varian or RSX.  WhenG    UNIVAC dropped Varian support, UNIVAC employees formed a new company G    that did just that.  When DEC dropped RSX support, it was by selling =    it to a company that could survive on smaller populations.   D    But I'm still hoping someone will get thier head out of the sand.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:51:03 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 3 Message-ID: <mXr$gxQlKUap@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <hNezuL4nbd0l@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:y > In article <452cc174$0$19717$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> writes:  >>  C >> Our support plans vary based on the customer requirements, going A >> from per call to 24X7 business critical level. BRUDEN supports 3 >> base O/S as well as most of the LPs & compilers.  >>   > H > With a third party support solution, what happens when the fix to yourF > problem is a required code change in the VMS or layered product code< > along with the issuing of a patch with the modified code ? > L > Even though I'm a small customer by VMS standards, this has still happened1 > to me on more than one occasion over the years.   @    We used to do this kind of thing via PATCH.  I know there areH    PATCH-like utilities out there for Alpha, and probably for IA-64, butC    source listings are not that expensive and the BLISS compiler is     free.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2006 12:58:23 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India + Message-ID: <4p483fFgvbinU1@individual.net>   3 In article <it49+DG5936w@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ > In article <452C02AD.7B2E68D9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:! >> Something to think about here:  >>  J >> We are starting to see ads here for proper VMS support. And even if notI >> presented as an actual advertising, the end result is the same. We all F >> know about Bruden "On Shore Support". And we now know about Parsec. >>  = >> How long before Process chimes in and offers support too ?  > K >    They will be added to a long list of those of us who would be glad to   >    have your business. > H >    I don't know of any per-call work, but I do know my employer is notI >    the only one with contracts which provide the first line of support.  > F >    So I suspect you'll find plenty of per-call and other arangements# >    if HP doens't meet your needs.  > H >    And maybe someday VMS will go he same route as Varian or RSX.  WhenI >    UNIVAC dropped Varian support, UNIVAC employees formed a new company I >    that did just that.  When DEC dropped RSX support, it was by selling ? >    it to a company that could survive on smaller populations.  > F >    But I'm still hoping someone will get thier head out of the sand.  H I know it would likely fall on deaf ears, but I think it would be a goodH thing if some of the larger VMS users (maybe get the government in, as aE user, not as a lawmaker) got together and at least got HP to agree to E release everything regarding VMS in the event they decide to dump it. G It could be a copnsortium of the then current users or even Open Source I it (hopefully with a BSD style license rather than the Gnu Public Virus!)   K It would be a shame to see the same thing happen that happened with Primos. J How long ago did Prime go bust?  There are still Prime users out there andJ the source to Primos and all its layered products sits in limbo as at this: point it seems no one can even tell who the real owner is.   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:21:10 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-698A94.15211011102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B In article <1160530924.030087.92950@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,1  "ryan.dan@gmail.com" <ryan.dan@gmail.com> wrote:   I > We had an incident about two months ago, and had to use the new support C > and needless to say they did not know nearly one/tenth of the guy A > working next to me.  I'm fairly new to VMS (a little of year of H > experience) and I can't say I'm really surprised about this issue.  AtB > one of the HP dog and pony shows, I talked to one fo the ProductG > Managers, and I let her know I thought HP were fools by not investing & > more into its best operating system. > B > But then again, this HP, the only company I know making money onF > promises.   I think their business strategy is to not learn from theG > Dell's of the world - who pulled back their offshore support, because E > people complained.  Obvisiously, we are now in the minority - but I 1 > wish their was a way to make them pay....<sign>  >   G I suspect many here may have overlooked one of Bob Ceculski's postings  
 yesterday.  I http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2006/10/10/219032/HP+users+voice+c & oncerns+on+offshore+support+levels.htm  4 "HP users voice concerns on offshore support levels"  I well we know that already, but read on; it isn't just VMS support that's  
 suffering:  F 'A local authority head of IT, who asked not to named, said, "We have E had some issues both with procurement of HP equipment and quality of  
 service."'   and   B 'One company has decided to switch from HP's version of Microsoft G Premier Support back to Microsoft's more expensive offering because it  4 was not happy with the service it received from HP.'   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:21:46 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India C Message-ID: <1160576506.464088.310980@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   - David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: K > I don't know if it  is going to be cost-effective for us to hire some VMS G > engineering people, but judging by the amount of very experienced VMS I > consultants out there, I think our consultant web page may come in very 	 > useful.  > I > Out of curiosity, what would you all say was the percentage of hardware ' > versus software support requirements?  > K > Reason I am asking is that we have a couple of next-day delivery hardware N > support contracts, which work by our customer keeping spares that we sold toJ > them then we replenish within 1 year/2 years etc whatever their contract > period may be. > M > My guess is that 90% of all support issues come about from bad hardware.... E > something very very easy to fix with the amount of current and last L > generation hardware floating about and in stock at our warehouse and otherB > reputable dealers in the worldwide "used" equipment marketplace. > 3 > It also brings me to ask about software upgrades.  > J > I have talked to many many Federal Government installations that pay forN > maintenance but are still running VMS 6.2 ~ and never used software support. > N > We all know HP knows that and I believe they are taking a gamble on the FedsL > not even noticing that they are paying excessively for a service they will > never receive.- > That is HP's biggest cash cow right there !  > M > I can tell you this from experience - many Navy installations, Army and Air M > Force call us about issues with VMS even though we don't yet offer SOFTWARE I > SUPPORT. We normally find the answer by asking consultants for a 1 hour G > billing etc. They should be using VMS support but have no idea who to 
 > contact. > 4 > Damn it . I wish we had those kind of customers!!! >  >  > :0|  >  > DT >  > Comments?  >  >   B 95%+ hardware.  Of that about 75% is tape drives (almost all DAT),E better than 20% is disks.  We have not had another type of call since D about 2001 when a DS10 power supply was replaced; before that around5 1998 when an MV3100-30 main logic board was replaced.   G 5% software; two TCPIP problem related calls since 2001, one VMS V7.3-1 G backup problem which required a non-kitted remedial driver update, last  year.   A That covers us (MV3100-30 and DS10), 10 customers with DS10/DS20e C systems, 1 with an AS2100, 1 with a pair of AS1000s, and 1 customer  with an MV3100-85 since 1998.   F For us, the base software support is an insurance policy, and also forG the right to use new versions.  Hardware support is lifeblood.  Most of F the customers do not have the onsite technical expertise to replace anF internal disk or tape drive, nor to run offline backups to either copyC data or restore backups to recover, and travel for such occurrences A (with the exception of the few local customers) is not timely, so @ onsite hardware support is mandatory.  We could certainly do theG replacement (just about any hardware, not just storage) here or for the " local customers, but not the rest.  E Our two hellish experiences with the new and improved HP support were $ hardware (tape drive) trouble calls.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:24:20 +0200 ; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 9 Message-ID: <452d0dc4$0$19722$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:hNezuL4nbd0l@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > In article <452cc174$0$19717$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" 1 <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> writes:  > > D > > Our support plans vary based on the customer requirements, goingB > > from per call to 24X7 business critical level. BRUDEN supports4 > > base O/S as well as most of the LPs & compilers. > >  > H > With a third party support solution, what happens when the fix to yourF > problem is a required code change in the VMS or layered product code< > along with the issuing of a patch with the modified code ?  F Companies like BRUDEN are intended to replace your Level 1 and Level 2I support. When a change is required to the VMS code to fix a problem, it's F BRUDEN's responsibility to contact the VMS developers to get you a fixI for the problem.....it's exactly the same as working with a local support H center. BRUDEN has an official approval from HP to provide VMS services.   Guy    > L > Even though I'm a small customer by VMS standards, this has still happened1 > to me on more than one occasion over the years.  >  > Simon. >  > --  = > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP K > If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2  ?        --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:54:04 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX 3 Message-ID: <Cq9TMwQKtvxr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <1160501380.005144.71170@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Rohan" <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> writes: % > Does Linux perform better than VMS?  > C > What are advantages/disadvantages of having VMS or Linux over one 
 > another?  @    As in all things, it depends.  See the FAQ for a good base in#    understanding this can of worms.   G    The bottom line is, Linux has some advantages, if you need them; and B    VMS has some advantages, if you need them.  I'll stay with VMS.  F    As for performance, an ADD instruction is not influenced by the OS.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:57:50 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX 3 Message-ID: <9pEjwZbvCKsA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <452BFF16.C8450D91@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > H > In a cluster, you can get a node to crash just by pulling the ethernetJ > cable from it.  (ok, there is good reason for it to happen, but it still
 > crashes !).   ?    Yes, but if you put it back in a few seconds it won't crash.   D    Try this one:  remove the system disk from Linux, Windows, or any-    UNIX while its running.  Then put it back.   1    DOS and VMS won't crash.  You want to use DOS?    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2006 13:06:27 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX + Message-ID: <4p48ijFgvbinU2@individual.net>   3 In article <9pEjwZbvCKsA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ > In article <452BFF16.C8450D91@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>  I >> In a cluster, you can get a node to crash just by pulling the ethernet K >> cable from it.  (ok, there is good reason for it to happen, but it still  >> crashes !). > A >    Yes, but if you put it back in a few seconds it won't crash.  > F >    Try this one:  remove the system disk from Linux, Windows, or any/ >    UNIX while its running.  Then put it back.   F Contrived scenario.  Is the VMS System Disk local or over the network?H If the latter, then Unix will behave the same way.  As a matter of fact,I if you are using real Unix (not Linux in which TCPIP is badly implemented F and NFS is flat-out broken) it will likely last quite some time if youE pull the ethernet and will even survive rebooting the machine that is I serving its system disk.  If the former, I am quite certain if I yank the L system disk from one of my running VMS systems it will die rather quickly.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:38:45 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-3FEAAA.15384511102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  3 In article <9pEjwZbvCKsA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, =  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   8 > In article <452BFF16.C8450D91@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > J > > In a cluster, you can get a node to crash just by pulling the ethernetL > > cable from it.  (ok, there is good reason for it to happen, but it still > > crashes !).  > A >    Yes, but if you put it back in a few seconds it won't crash.  > F >    Try this one:  remove the system disk from Linux, Windows, or any/ >    UNIX while its running.  Then put it back.  >   G On OS X, if the system disk is an external Firewire drive, try putting  I it to sleep. Upon  waking the system, the external drive doesn't spin up  * quickly enough for the system to continue.  3 >    DOS and VMS won't crash.  You want to use DOS?    ;.)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2006 14:20:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX + Message-ID: <4p4cskFgpgefU1@individual.net>   J In article <paul.sture.nospam-3FEAAA.15384511102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>,2 	Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:5 > In article <9pEjwZbvCKsA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? >  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  > 9 >> In article <452BFF16.C8450D91@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  ) >> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >> >  K >> > In a cluster, you can get a node to crash just by pulling the ethernet M >> > cable from it.  (ok, there is good reason for it to happen, but it still  >> > crashes !). >>  B >>    Yes, but if you put it back in a few seconds it won't crash. >>  G >>    Try this one:  remove the system disk from Linux, Windows, or any 0 >>    UNIX while its running.  Then put it back. >>   > I > On OS X, if the system disk is an external Firewire drive, try putting  K > it to sleep. Upon  waking the system, the external drive doesn't spin up  , > quickly enough for the system to continue. >   : And would VMS fare any better with a Firewire System Disk?  A While FireWire is cute and sometimes even usefull, it has been my D experience up to now that it is not really ready for prime time yet.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:49:50 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX , Message-ID: <egj0ae$8kr$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  V In article <4p4cskFgpgefU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:K >In article <paul.sture.nospam-3FEAAA.15384511102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, 3 >	Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: 6 >> In article <9pEjwZbvCKsA@eisner.encompasserve.org>,@ >>  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: >>  : >>> In article <452BFF16.C8450D91@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei * >>> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>> > L >>> > In a cluster, you can get a node to crash just by pulling the ethernetN >>> > cable from it.  (ok, there is good reason for it to happen, but it still >>> > crashes !).  >>> C >>>    Yes, but if you put it back in a few seconds it won't crash.  >>> H >>>    Try this one:  remove the system disk from Linux, Windows, or any1 >>>    UNIX while its running.  Then put it back.  >>>  >>  J >> On OS X, if the system disk is an external Firewire drive, try putting L >> it to sleep. Upon  waking the system, the external drive doesn't spin up - >> quickly enough for the system to continue.  >>   > ; >And would VMS fare any better with a Firewire System Disk?  > O Should do, so long as the spin-up time didn't exceed MVTIMEOUT - which would be  one hell of a slow spin-up.   M (Does Itanium support firewire drives which could be used as a system disk ?)     
 David Webb VMS Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University    B >While FireWire is cute and sometimes even usefull, it has been myE >experience up to now that it is not really ready for prime time yet.  >          >bill  >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   | B >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>      ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:51:29 GMT ; From: "Duncan Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk>  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX > Message-ID: <Rx7Xg.33365$r61.19588@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  F Linux has a future - thanks to the current HP management VMS does not.  2 "Rohan" <rohan.bakshi@qwest.com> wrote in message < news:1160501380.005144.71170@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...% > Does Linux perform better than VMS?  > C > What are advantages/disadvantages of having VMS or Linux over one 
 > another? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:45:24 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org>  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX 5 Message-ID: <slrneiq7t4.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   p In article <9pEjwZbvCKsA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:^ > In article <452BFF16.C8450D91@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>  I >> In a cluster, you can get a node to crash just by pulling the ethernet K >> cable from it.  (ok, there is good reason for it to happen, but it still  >> crashes !). > A >    Yes, but if you put it back in a few seconds it won't crash.  > F >    Try this one:  remove the system disk from Linux, Windows, or any/ >    UNIX while its running.  Then put it back.  > 3 >    DOS and VMS won't crash.  You want to use DOS?   H Not the best of examples because it would survive just fine with SolarisD assuming hot-plug bays and mirrored setup. That, I know as a fact as< I've run both tests as well as seen it happen in production.  A However, resync of the RAID-1 software mirrored setup wouldn't be F automatic; you'd have to do 'metareplace -e' (under Solaris) to inform0 the OS that it's got a valid disk back in there.  G I don't recall the behavior with AIX offhand... vague recollection that G it was somewhat less cheery about this scenario, depending on the exact  failure mode, FWIW.   A I'm not sure about Linux; I don't really like the integration (or B relative lack thereof) of its logical volume manager amongst other things on that platform.   -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 07:36:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? 3 Message-ID: <KyeQDM2KPVuy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <eggk06$iq3$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:  > 1 > "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com> wrote in message  ? > news:1160499338.840907.212840@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... F >> Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is? >> this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"?  > I > Well sort of. It exploits the long standing (but I believe unsupported) I > feature that only the first four letters of a DCL verb are significant. D > It's a hackish way to get around the fact that some folks redefine$ > DELETE, to be say DELETE/CONFIRM.   E    It will work even if DCL starts parsing more than 4 letters, since E    DCL can't parse more than DELETE to parse the DELETE command.  And F    I think at least the use of a long form of "logout" in a logout.com    file is documented.  >    I do this all the time, except I normally spell it DELETEE.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:53:27 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? , Message-ID: <egipg7$76b$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  : "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:452be5ce@usenet01.boi.hp.com...  Z >   I've submitted an enhancement request 75-118-33 against the OpenVMS documentation for 3 > DCL; a request that this behaviour be documented.   I After Robert's assertion that it was, in fact, documented I went back and , checked. Indeed, it is a documented feature:H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_003.html#index_x_209D Not a surprising one to anyone who was brought up on Colossal Cave.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 05:05:23 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>" Subject: What PC Discovers ItaniumB Message-ID: <1160568323.794547.276840@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Martin Banks writes in What PC@ http://www.whatpc.co.uk/itweek/comment/2166050/itanium-zero-hero  8 "A new software tool from Transitive promises to let anyG Solaris-on-Sparc-based application run on an Itanium server without the $ need to actually port the software." ... D "Of course, just because an operating system is past its prime, doesB not mean it is useless - in fact the old timers can show the youngG bucks of the web services world a thing or two about how to run proper, @ big systems. NonStop is already showing real promise as a secureD management environment for large web-based systems - not running theE front-ends, but managing all the systems that are doing the coal-face C tasks. And OpenVMS has a long and honourable track-record as a host C environment for large and fast transaction management applications. < These are just the characteristics that web-based businesses desperately need." ...    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.559 ************************