1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 12 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 560       Contents:+ Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket" + Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket" + Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"   Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS?  Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS?< Best way to get my email archive out of VMS and onto my Mac?J Re: Copying BACKUP saveset from tape to disk with /BLOCKSIZE > 32767 bytes Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS OT:  Opteron PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes) Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 2 # Searchlist logicals for SYS$LOGIN ? ' Re: Searchlist logicals for SYS$LOGIN ?   Re: VAX 6000 still doesn't start  Re: VAX 6000 still doesn't start Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: VMS Support in India Re: What is DELETEX?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:40:31 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"G Message-ID: <e8-dnfrT1-lS-bDYnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:    ...   I >> IIRC, it used to be that short-term capital gains were anything under  M >> 5 years, and taxed far more heavily than longer-term capital gains.  This   > H > Short term capital gains have been "anything under six months" for at # > least the last forty-three years!   G Ah, once again I'm impressed by the fact that the most clueless always  4 seem to be the most certain of their misconceptions.  H The current holding period for short-term capital gains (at least those E involving stocks, the subject of this discussion) is 1 year, and has  H been since 1988.  It was 6 months for (roughly) 1985 - 1987, 1 year for = 1978 - 1984, 9 months for 1977, and 6 months for 1942 - 1976.   I While that lengthy period during which the short-term holding period was  I only 6 months was far healthier economically than our health today, it's  I worth noting that during that time long-term capital gains were taxed at  E only half the rate of short-term capital gains (which were taxed the  I same as other income - as much as 70% - 90% in the highest brackets), so  E there was a *major* incentive for wealthy (i.e., large) investors to  A hold onto assets at least 6 months (arguably longer than today's  I investment horizon) - and when the holding period increased in 1978 to 1  G year it was accompanied by a further decrease in the long-term capital  H gain tax rate to only 40% of the short-term rate, further encouraging a E longer-term horizon than seems to exist today.  Furthermore, studies  H have found a strong relationship between the capital gains tax rate and D holding period independent of short-term/long-term breakpoints - in H particular, the higher the long-term capital gains tax rate, the longer G people on average hold assets in order to defer being taxed on selling  E them (another factor contributing to a healthier economy than one in   which assets are 'churned').  D The Revenue Act of 1938 provided for three exclusion tiers based on H holding period:  no exclusion for 0 - 18 months, 33% exclusion for 18 - ( 24 months, and 50% exclusion for longer.  I The Revenue Act of 1934 provided a different set of tiers:  no exclusion  F for up to 1 year, 20% exclusion for 1 - 2 years, 40% for 2 - 5 years, E 60% for 5 - 10 years, and 70% if held over 10 years.  I suspect that  G this is where my vague recollection came from and it admittedly is far  D longer ago than I had thought (but, of course, I did not presume to # state it as fact, unlike yourself).   I Just complete this history, the Revenue Act of 1921 had a 2-tier holding  ! period, split at the 2-year mark.   I There have been more tiers recently as well.  As of the "Taxpayer Relief  B Act of 1997", assets held from 12 - 18 months were categorized as F 'mid-term' (taxed at a maximum of 28%, the long-term rate since 1988) H and those held over 18 months as 'long-term' (taxed at a maximum of 20% F - this being a coy way of introducing a major tax reduction which was F later applied to the 'mid-term' rate as well, eliminating that tier). F As of 2001, another tier was added such that assets held over 5 years H were taxed at a slightly lower rate than other long-term assets (hardly A sufficiently lower to influence investor behavior significantly,  G though).  As of 2003, the maximum long-term capital gains tax rate was   cut to 15%.   I Now, while 15% is indeed about half the tax rate that high-income people  I (supposedly) pay on short-term capital gains, the fact that *both* rates  F are far lower than they were during most of the period from the 1940s ? through the 1980s means that there's far less disincentive for  H 'churning' assets irrespective of their being short-term (or, to put it H another way, churning requires far less potential percentage benefit in  return to be worthwhile).   G So while my original statement indeed turned out to be over-simplistic  F (as I even suggested at the time I made it), its general thrust still C seems to have considerable merit:  the current short-term focus by  ? corporations and their leaders has been driven by increasingly  C short-term focus by investors, which in turn is a direct result of  B changes in the tax code relating to capital gains (not so much in F holding periods, as I originally thought, as in absolute rates and by B their reduction a reduction in the significance of the difference * between short-term and long-term holding).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:40:19 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket". Message-ID: <_1hXg.21421$2g4.14752@dukeread09>   Dave Froble wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote: >> Dave Froble wrote:  >>> GREED DOESN'T WORK!  >>4 >> So Bob Palmer, Michael Capella, Carly Fiorina are >> poor today ?  >> >> :-) > . > You're right,  I didn't get specific enough. > I > Greed doesn't work for the common good of all.  Or, in the case of HP,  B > greed doesn't work for the long term health of the company, the G > company's employees, and for the long term reputation of the company.    I agree.  4 But it is hardly surprising that the Cxx people make* the decisions that maximize their profits.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:57:08 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket": Message-ID: <H--dnRnQAb9kPbDYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Todd wrote:   > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  > ...  > J >>> IIRC, it used to be that short-term capital gains were anything under I >>> 5 years, and taxed far more heavily than longer-term capital gains.   	 >>> This   >> >>I >> Short term capital gains have been "anything under six months" for at  $ >> least the last forty-three years! >  > I > Ah, once again I'm impressed by the fact that the most clueless always  6 > seem to be the most certain of their misconceptions. > J > The current holding period for short-term capital gains (at least those G > involving stocks, the subject of this discussion) is 1 year, and has  J > been since 1988.  It was 6 months for (roughly) 1985 - 1987, 1 year for ? > 1978 - 1984, 9 months for 1977, and 6 months for 1942 - 1976.  > K > While that lengthy period during which the short-term holding period was  K > only 6 months was far healthier economically than our health today, it's  K > worth noting that during that time long-term capital gains were taxed at  G > only half the rate of short-term capital gains (which were taxed the  K > same as other income - as much as 70% - 90% in the highest brackets), so  G > there was a *major* incentive for wealthy (i.e., large) investors to  C > hold onto assets at least 6 months (arguably longer than today's  K > investment horizon) - and when the holding period increased in 1978 to 1  I > year it was accompanied by a further decrease in the long-term capital  J > gain tax rate to only 40% of the short-term rate, further encouraging a G > longer-term horizon than seems to exist today.  Furthermore, studies  J > have found a strong relationship between the capital gains tax rate and F > holding period independent of short-term/long-term breakpoints - in J > particular, the higher the long-term capital gains tax rate, the longer I > people on average hold assets in order to defer being taxed on selling  G > them (another factor contributing to a healthier economy than one in   > which assets are 'churned'). > F > The Revenue Act of 1938 provided for three exclusion tiers based on J > holding period:  no exclusion for 0 - 18 months, 33% exclusion for 18 - * > 24 months, and 50% exclusion for longer. > K > The Revenue Act of 1934 provided a different set of tiers:  no exclusion  H > for up to 1 year, 20% exclusion for 1 - 2 years, 40% for 2 - 5 years, G > 60% for 5 - 10 years, and 70% if held over 10 years.  I suspect that  I > this is where my vague recollection came from and it admittedly is far  F > longer ago than I had thought (but, of course, I did not presume to % > state it as fact, unlike yourself).  > K > Just complete this history, the Revenue Act of 1921 had a 2-tier holding  # > period, split at the 2-year mark.  > K > There have been more tiers recently as well.  As of the "Taxpayer Relief  D > Act of 1997", assets held from 12 - 18 months were categorized as H > 'mid-term' (taxed at a maximum of 28%, the long-term rate since 1988) J > and those held over 18 months as 'long-term' (taxed at a maximum of 20% H > - this being a coy way of introducing a major tax reduction which was K > later applied to the 'mid-term' rate as well, eliminating that tier). As  J > of 2001, another tier was added such that assets held over 5 years were E > taxed at a slightly lower rate than other long-term assets (hardly  C > sufficiently lower to influence investor behavior significantly,  I > though).  As of 2003, the maximum long-term capital gains tax rate was  
 > cut to 15%.  > K > Now, while 15% is indeed about half the tax rate that high-income people  K > (supposedly) pay on short-term capital gains, the fact that *both* rates  H > are far lower than they were during most of the period from the 1940s A > through the 1980s means that there's far less disincentive for  J > 'churning' assets irrespective of their being short-term (or, to put it J > another way, churning requires far less potential percentage benefit in  > return to be worthwhile).  > I > So while my original statement indeed turned out to be over-simplistic  H > (as I even suggested at the time I made it), its general thrust still E > seems to have considerable merit:  the current short-term focus by  A > corporations and their leaders has been driven by increasingly  E > short-term focus by investors, which in turn is a direct result of  D > changes in the tax code relating to capital gains (not so much in H > holding periods, as I originally thought, as in absolute rates and by D > their reduction a reduction in the significance of the difference , > between short-term and long-term holding). >  > - bill  C Sorry, you're right about 1994 at least.  I had my 1994 return and  H instructions within reach and it does say that short term capital gains E are derived from the sale of assets held for one year or less.  It's  C been a while since I had to complete schedule D and I haven't been  ) paying attention to changes in the rules.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:57:13 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ) Subject: Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS? I Message-ID: <8660a3a10610111957l3a47663bxf080b73ffd20f8ac@mail.gmail.com>   5 On 10/11/06, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:  > 6 > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message8 > news:451e8fcb$0$24177$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com... > M > As of 2006-10-10, still no SEPT-2006 distributions CD-ROMs from HP support.  > . > Has anyone else received their shipment yet? >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  >  >  >  >  Assumnig you mean 3Q2006 SPLs,0 We got ours (VAX & Alpha) a couple of weeks ago.   WWWebb --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:36:29 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com) Subject: Re: 2006-09 Distrbution CD-ROMS? Q Message-ID: <OFFBCAB04F.070C0493-ON85257205.001394C7-85257205.0013D1E3@metso.com>   + This is a multipart message in MIME format. " --=_alternative 0013D1DE85257205_=, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"  H AV-RN7DZ-XE OPENVMS ALPHA SOFTWARE PRODUCTS LIBRARY MASTER INDEX SEP 06  (03XAAA-A8.BP01)F AV-RW7BJ-RE OPENVMS VAX SOFTWARE PRODUCTS LIBRARY MASTER INDEX SEP 06  (VWJ8A-A8.CL01)     Mid-September [No I64 agreement]  D "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote on 09/30/2006 11:47:45 AM:  H > Question to people with software support contracts. Have you received  your   > fall kit yet?  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.$ > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  >   " --=_alternative 0013D1DE85257205_=+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"     H <br><font size=2><tt>AV-RN7DZ-XE OPENVMS ALPHA SOFTWARE PRODUCTS LIBRARY0 MASTER INDEX SEP 06 (03XAAA-A8.BP01)</tt></font>F <br><font size=2><tt>AV-RW7BJ-RE OPENVMS VAX SOFTWARE PRODUCTS LIBRARY/ MASTER INDEX SEP 06 (VWJ8A-A8.CL01)</tt></font>  <br>A <br><font size=2><tt>Mid-September [No I64 agreement]</tt></font>  <br>H <br><font size=2><tt>&quot;Neil Rieck&quot; &lt;n.rieck@sympatico.ca&gt;$ wrote on 09/30/2006 11:47:45 AM:<br> <br>J &gt; Question to people with software support contracts. Have you received	 your <br>  &gt; fall kit yet?<br>	 &gt; <br>  &gt; Neil Rieck<br> & &gt; Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,<br> &gt; Ontario, Canada.<br> + &gt; http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ <br> 	 &gt; <br> 	 &gt; <br>  </tt></font>$ --=_alternative 0013D1DE85257205_=--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:09:30 -0700 5 From: Dave Spencer <spencer@removeme.pageweavers.com> E Subject: Best way to get my email archive out of VMS and onto my Mac? A Message-ID: <111020062209308840%spencer@removeme.pageweavers.com>   U Folks, I've got email in my personal account on OpenVMS that goes all the way back to T the 80's. I'm considering transfering it all somehow to my personal computer - a Mac
 running OS X.   U Naturally, I've got thousands and thousands of messages, all of which are filed using W VMSmail. And of course, I've taken advantage of all the features of VMSmail and created W a number of mail files as "cabinets" with meaningful names such as auctions, merchants, V business, etc. each of which having many folders that further categorize the nature or purpose of the message.   U I've been using the Mac's Mail app for some time as a temporary tool for emailing out U files to people as attachments as well as reading HTML-based email messages. While it X works very well, it's a little light in the area of providing a strong filing mechanism.[ Yes, you can create folders; but I have so much stuff filed in so many folders that I would Z be looking at hundreds of folders in a very lengthy list. Not good enough for my purposes.  Y So it comes down to two issues. Is somebody aware of a good email client for the Mac that X will handle the volume of email that I have? And once I find a client, how on earth am ID going to transfer all that email off of my VMS box and onto the Mac?  
 Suggestions??    Thanks in advance,     -- Dave Spencer    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:03:00 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) S Subject: Re: Copying BACKUP saveset from tape to disk with /BLOCKSIZE > 32767 bytes [ Message-ID: <rdeininger-1110062203000001@dialup-4.233.149.127.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>   B In article <1160612294.815489.144550@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,' "armistej" <JArmistead@mail.com> wrote:    >Peter > H >Thanks for the reply.  I've heard of Saveset Manager, but unfortunatelyE >I'm only running VMS 5.5-2 on the resurrected MicroVAX 3100 with the F >TZ30 drive in it, and the current SPD for Saveset Manager Version 1.8C >talks about OpenVMS 7.x and 8.x.  I'm guessing that VMS 5.5-2 just / >doesn't meet the minimum system requirements !  > F >Is it possible to get a loan PAK that will work with an older version >of Saveset Manager ?  > F >Or can someone give me some other alternative strategies that I might >be able to try ?   H Generally license agreements, and the associated PAKs, cover the versionD that's current when the license is issued and all previous versions.  J If you have an installation kit for an older version of Saveset Manager, a% current loaner PAK would likely work.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 11:09:35 -0700' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au>  Subject: Re: Death of VMS B Message-ID: <1160590175.236096.184760@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Duncan Macdonald wrote:  > ... F > The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joiningL > Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because he; > enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier    
 It worked?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:31:57 GMT ; From: "Duncan Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Death of VMS > Message-ID: <1xcXg.33576$r61.33302@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  J The NT family worked well enough for many users and it cost far less than  VMS.H A Ford Focus may well work less well than a Rolls Royce but the Ford is 0 sufficient and affordable unlike the Rolls RoyceE Windows NT (and its later versions 2000 and XP) may well be far less  K reliable than VMS, However they are sufficiently reliable to be usable for  8 many jobs that would otherwise have gone to VMS or UNIX.K If you need 24x365 then NT/2000/XP is not for you but the vast majority of  G applications for computers do not demand that degree of reliability. I  I worked for the UK Central Electricity Generating Board and National Grid  K after the split up of the CEGB. Neither organisation would have considered  J using any of the NT family for the control of the electricity grid but it J was quite suitable for jobs such as desktops, email servers and modelling 5 applications that could tolerate occasional downtime.   3 "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> wrote in message  < news:1160590175.236096.184760@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >  > Duncan Macdonald wrote:  >> ...G >> The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joining K >> Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because   >> he ; >> enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier  >  > It worked? >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 13:43:45 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Death of VMS B Message-ID: <1160599425.500611.85510@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Duncan Macdonald wrote: H > I have been a DECUS member since the PDP-11 days before the first VAX.M > Unfortunately the recent HP moves to get rid of a lot of the VMS developers  > and G > good support staff seem to me to be the final nail in the VMS coffin.  > F > The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joiningL > Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because heM > enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have  > been.  > G > The second nail was the replacement of technical management at DEC by  > non-technical management.  > K > There have been many more nails following from the above of which the two  > most important were the death G > of the Alpha and the decision to go to the Itanium instead of the x86 	 > family.  > L > From a personal point of view this has made my 25+ years of DEC experience3 > worth less than 2 years experience as an XP admin  >  > R.I.P.   VMS  E If anyone here writes to HP management regarding VMS, please keep the  following in mind:  ' 1. Be polite, pleasant, and respectful. * 2. Point out how it benefits them, not us. 3. Don't make it too long.  = It may still not work but I believe it is the best way to go.    Thanks.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2006 21:24:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Death of VMS + Message-ID: <4p55oeFh7oa2U1@individual.net>   B In article <1160599425.500611.85510@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > Duncan Macdonald wrote: I >> I have been a DECUS member since the PDP-11 days before the first VAX. N >> Unfortunately the recent HP moves to get rid of a lot of the VMS developers >> andH >> good support staff seem to me to be the final nail in the VMS coffin. >>G >> The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joining M >> Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because he N >> enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have >> been. >>H >> The second nail was the replacement of technical management at DEC by >> non-technical management. >>L >> There have been many more nails following from the above of which the two  >> most important were the deathH >> of the Alpha and the decision to go to the Itanium instead of the x86
 >> family. >>M >> From a personal point of view this has made my 25+ years of DEC experience 4 >> worth less than 2 years experience as an XP admin >> >> R.I.P.   VMS  > G > If anyone here writes to HP management regarding VMS, please keep the  > following in mind: > ) > 1. Be polite, pleasant, and respectful. , > 2. Point out how it benefits them, not us. > 3. Don't make it too long. > ? > It may still not work but I believe it is the best way to go.  >   C The best way to go at t his point is to accept reality and move on. @ You can't (well, you can, but you shouldn't) bet your company on empty promises.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 14:33:52 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com>  Subject: Re: Death of VMS C Message-ID: <1160602432.262061.220870@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   9 On Oct 11, 3:43 pm, "AEF" <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:  > Duncan Macdonald wrote: J > > I have been a DECUS member since the PDP-11 days before the first VAX.O > > Unfortunately the recent HP moves to get rid of a lot of the VMS developers  > > and I > > good support staff seem to me to be the final nail in the VMS coffin.  > H > > The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joiningN > > Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because heO > > enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have 	 > > been.  > I > > The second nail was the replacement of technical management at DEC by  > > non-technical management.  > M > > There have been many more nails following from the above of which the two ! > > most important were the death I > > of the Alpha and the decision to go to the Itanium instead of the x86  > > family.  > N > > From a personal point of view this has made my 25+ years of DEC experience5 > > worth less than 2 years experience as an XP admin  > U > > R.I.P.   VMSIf anyone here writes to HP management regarding VMS, please keep the  > following in mind: > ) > 1. Be polite, pleasant, and respectful. , > 2. Point out how it benefits them, not us. > 3. Don't make it too long. > ? > It may still not work but I believe it is the best way to go.  > 	 > Thanks.    AEF,  F I most heartedly concur. Disrepect and flaming will get nowhere in the3 discussion. Sound, cool business reasoning is best.   F The other things that are worth mentioning is how long you have been aE customer, and how many dollars are being spent per year. If you are a ) stockholder, it is also worth mentioning.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:00:34 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Death of VMS G Message-ID: <T46dnVGzVfEQ9LDYnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > In article <Tv7Xg.33364$r61.27338@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, "Duncan8 > Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  > H >> The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joining N >> Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because he O >> enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have   >> been.  I Not even so much that:  more because of what it *implied* about what DEC  G had become (i.e., sufficiently dysfunctional that the best people just  " gave up on it and went elsewhere).  H Not all of them, of course:  Alpha was worthy of the 'old DEC', but I'm ! not sure what else was post-1988.    > H > Cutler might have been an interesting character (I remember one quote J > describing working with him as like being in a homoerotic cowboy movie, C > for whatever that's worth), but didn't he leave after VMS 1.0 or  J > something?  His contribution to VMS seems to be quite overrated, as far  > as I can tell.  E God, do we have to go through this *again*, just because yet another  8 poster here doesn't have a clue what he's talking about?  B VMS might not even have existed without Cutler:  while there were H several people whose *technical* contributions to the first release may H have been equally (though I suspect not *more*) important, there was no E one whose *overall* contribution matched his, and without him VMS V1  G would not have been nearly what it was (and therefore likely could not  # have become nearly what it became).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:12:31 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: Death of VMS ) Message-ID: <op.tg92m5o1tte90l@hyrrokkin>   H On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:00:34 -0700, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   wrote:  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: I >> In article <Tv7Xg.33364$r61.27338@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, "Duncan 8 >> Macdonald" <duncanmacdonald@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:J >>> The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joining  E >>> Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but   I >>> because he enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier    >>> that it would have been. > L > Not even so much that:  more because of what it *implied* about what DEC  J > had become (i.e., sufficiently dysfunctional that the best people just  $ > gave up on it and went elsewhere). > K > Not all of them, of course:  Alpha was worthy of the 'old DEC', but I'm   # > not sure what else was post-1988.  > K >>  Cutler might have been an interesting character (I remember one quote   L >> describing working with him as like being in a homoerotic cowboy movie,  E >> for whatever that's worth), but didn't he leave after VMS 1.0 or   L >> something?  His contribution to VMS seems to be quite overrated, as far   >> as I can tell.  > H > God, do we have to go through this *again*, just because yet another  : > poster here doesn't have a clue what he's talking about? > E > VMS might not even have existed without Cutler:  while there were   K > several people whose *technical* contributions to the first release may   K > have been equally (though I suspect not *more*) important, there was no   H > one whose *overall* contribution matched his, and without him VMS V1  J > would not have been nearly what it was (and therefore likely could not  % > have become nearly what it became).   I He did a pretty good job of porting PL/I and building VCG in the process. G Unfortunately he must have lacked the political authority within in DEC 1 to make VCG the common backend for all languages.    >  > - bill       --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:27:31 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: Death of VMS + Message-ID: <egjr4j$2fs$1@naig.caltech.edu>   
 AEF wrote:  G > If anyone here writes to HP management regarding VMS, please keep the  > following in mind: > ) > 1. Be polite, pleasant, and respectful. , > 2. Point out how it benefits them, not us. > 3. Don't make it too long.  ' 4.  It's a complete waste of your time.    > It may still not work   D I'll accept your sentence if it implies the same sort of probabilityD as "the kettle sitting on the unlit stove may still not boil".  Both: are of course theoretically possible, but both are also soB unlikely that none of us will ever actually observe such an event.   Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:29:50 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Death of VMS G Message-ID: <c8mdnX-f3fjs47DYnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Tom Linden wrote:    ...   K > He did a pretty good job of porting PL/I and building VCG in the process. I > Unfortunately he must have lacked the political authority within in DEC 3 > to make VCG the common backend for all languages.   F It seems more likely that he just didn't care whether other languages I used it or did not (PL/1 was kind of his pet project IIRC, and I suspect  F he didn't give a damn about things like COBOL or Basic - possibly not  even FORTRAN).  G 'Lack of political authority' and 'Cutler' just didn't belong together  G on the same page (let alone in the same sentence) back then:  just ask   the 36-bit group...    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:56:00 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: Death of VMS ) Message-ID: <op.tg97fmjttte90l@hyrrokkin>   H On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:29:50 -0700, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:  >  > ...  > E >> He did a pretty good job of porting PL/I and building VCG in the    >> process. J >> Unfortunately he must have lacked the political authority within in DEC4 >> to make VCG the common backend for all languages. > I > It seems more likely that he just didn't care whether other languages   L > used it or did not (PL/1 was kind of his pet project IIRC, and I suspect  I > he didn't give a damn about things like COBOL or Basic - possibly not    > even FORTRAN).  E I was on the outside so didn't have or was interested particularly in H the machinations of the internals, but you may recall that there was a   documentI produced on how to use/interface to VCG and they did hook up Pascal, C,    SCAN, H Coral-66 and Pearl, IIRC.  He may have lost interest, but it certainly   lookedI like he wanted to produce a common backend, as we had done at Prime, DG    and a  few others.    > J > 'Lack of political authority' and 'Cutler' just didn't belong together  J > on the same page (let alone in the same sentence) back then:  just ask   > the 36-bit group...  >  > - bill       --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:25:17 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: Death of VMS ) Message-ID: <op.tg98sfpwtte90l@hyrrokkin>   H On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:21:20 -0700, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote: K >> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:29:50 -0700, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   	 >> wrote:  >> >>> Tom Linden wrote:  >>>  >>> ...  >>> G >>>> He did a pretty good job of porting PL/I and building VCG in the   
 >>>> process. J >>>> Unfortunately he must have lacked the political authority within in   >>>> DEC6 >>>> to make VCG the common backend for all languages. >>> K >>> It seems more likely that he just didn't care whether other languages   F >>> used it or did not (PL/1 was kind of his pet project IIRC, and I  F >>> suspect he didn't give a damn about things like COBOL or Basic -   >>> possibly not even FORTRAN). I >>  I was on the outside so didn't have or was interested particularly in K >> the machinations of the internals, but you may recall that there was a    >> document L >> produced on how to use/interface to VCG and they did hook up Pascal, C,   >> SCAN,K >> Coral-66 and Pearl, IIRC.  He may have lost interest, but it certainly   	 >> looked - >> like he wanted to produce a common backend  > K > I'm sure he did - but doubt that he much cared who used it.  Aside from   K > a personal interest in PL/I, I don't think languages interested him all   D > that much (at least compared with OS work):  he was an excellent  I > implementor and therefore made a back-end that was generally usable -   # > and then went on to other things.   J I think it was around 1982 when Keating asked me if we would do an Ada forJ the VAX, and I think at that time he had responsibility for all langugaes,! but as I said, I was an outsider.  > L > This was back in (or only just after - I'm not sure which) the days when  I > COBOL and Basic (the 'commercial languages') weren't even in the same   I > development group (and didn't even share the same *parent* in the DEC   L > hierarchy) as the 'scientific languages' - so not only did Cutler likely  E > not give a damn about them, there may have been no organizational   4 > mechanism for coordinating sharing code with them.  ' Well, he did make VCG a shared library.    >  > - bill       --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:21:20 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Death of VMS G Message-ID: <27GdnYRNoMgeF7DYnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Tom Linden wrote: I > On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:29:50 -0700, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   > wrote: >  >> Tom Linden wrote: >> >> ... >>E >>> He did a pretty good job of porting PL/I and building VCG in the   >>> process.K >>> Unfortunately he must have lacked the political authority within in DEC 5 >>> to make VCG the common backend for all languages.  >>I >> It seems more likely that he just didn't care whether other languages  D >> used it or did not (PL/1 was kind of his pet project IIRC, and I D >> suspect he didn't give a damn about things like COBOL or Basic -  >> possibly not even FORTRAN). > G > I was on the outside so didn't have or was interested particularly in I > the machinations of the internals, but you may recall that there was a  
 > documentJ > produced on how to use/interface to VCG and they did hook up Pascal, C,  > SCAN, I > Coral-66 and Pearl, IIRC.  He may have lost interest, but it certainly   > looked, > like he wanted to produce a common backend  H I'm sure he did - but doubt that he much cared who used it.  Aside from H a personal interest in PL/I, I don't think languages interested him all A that much (at least compared with OS work):  he was an excellent  F implementor and therefore made a back-end that was generally usable - ! and then went on to other things.   I This was back in (or only just after - I'm not sure which) the days when  F COBOL and Basic (the 'commercial languages') weren't even in the same F development group (and didn't even share the same *parent* in the DEC I hierarchy) as the 'scientific languages' - so not only did Cutler likely  B not give a damn about them, there may have been no organizational 2 mechanism for coordinating sharing code with them.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 19:34:51 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Death of VMS B Message-ID: <1160620491.743768.230780@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > AEF wrote: > I > > If anyone here writes to HP management regarding VMS, please keep the  > > following in mind: > > + > > 1. Be polite, pleasant, and respectful. . > > 2. Point out how it benefits them, not us. > > 3. Don't make it too long. > ) > 4.  It's a complete waste of your time.  >  > > It may still not work  > F > I'll accept your sentence if it implies the same sort of probabilityF > as "the kettle sitting on the unlit stove may still not boil".  Both    You mean boil without the flame.  < > are of course theoretically possible, but both are also soD > unlikely that none of us will ever actually observe such an event.  E Hey, remember the Red Sox vs. the Yankees in 2004? Down to their last F out (last 3 outs?) before being eliminated, the Red Sox went on to not3 only beat the Yankees, but to win the World Series.   E [In this case:] Hey, it's not like I'll be digging a moat. It'll just C take a little time to write, print, and mail. This way I won't kick F myself later saying, "You should have at least tried. It wouldn't haveF killed you." So at least in that respect, it's not a complete waste of time.   B Yes, I know the odds are very low, but the reward would be really,G really, huge, and it would avoid a possible regret (don't need any more  of those!!!)   Thanks for your thoughts.    AEF    > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:47:32 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: OT:  Opteron ) Message-ID: <op.tg9vxilztte90l@hyrrokkin>   ? Might be a good time for VMS Engineering to feed any additional  requirements to AMD     , AMD gives deeper peek into quad-core Opteron    
 Rick Merritt	  EE Times (10/10/2006 8:09 PM EDT)  J SAN JOSE, Calif. — Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD) provided a deeper  L look into the quad-core Opteron, detailing six areas where it will enhance  # the CPU expected to appear in 2007.   E Ben Sander, a principal member of technical staff at AMD, described   G Barcelona, the company's first 65-nm server chip and its first native   K quad-core architecture at a presentation at the Fall Processor Forum here   D Tuesday (Oct. 10). Improvements range from 128-bit wide multimedia  B pathways to an upgraded memory controller and a third-level cache.  L "A lot of these enhancements involve just a few percentage points of added  C performance here and there in an effort to build up a story about   C significant improvements to the overall architecture," Sander said.   G AMD will not detail until later this year expected benchmarks for its    quad-core processor.  K Barcelona widens from 64- to 128-bits the width of the execution path for   K multimedia instruction extensions. In tandem, the chip speeds up the rate   J at which it feeds multimedia data and instructions to the CPU. The moves  C will give a boost to a range of media encode/decode and technical    computing applications.   K In addition, the company has redesigned the two memory controllers on the   I Opteron so they can act independently. That should make more DRAM banks   C available at any given time and reduce page conflicts, Sander said.   J The updated memory controller will support DDR2, DDR3 and fully buffered  C DIMM memories. However, AMD does not expect OEMs to use the first   3 generation of FB-DIMMs with Barcelona, Sander said.   L Barcelona provides two levels of private cache for each core, a 64Kbyte L1  I and 512 Kbyte L2. The chip sports a relatively small 2Mbyte third-level   / cache that will be expanded in a follow on CPU.   F To speed up virtualization, Barcelona builds in hardware support for  G nested paging. The feature essentially caches address translations to   K reduce memory accesses that take up as much as three-quarters of the time   # of today's virtualization software.   F "We have achieved a 20:1 server consolidation ratio inside AMD using  D virtualization, so it's obviously a huge cost savings," said Sander. --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:32:37 -0400 , From: JFMezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Subject: PARSEC: SPAMMERS , Message-ID: <452D70F7.D1183742@teksavvy.com>  G I am sorry to announce that I have received unsollicited mail from Dawn $ Rubin of PARSEC (drubin@parsec.com).   Return-Path: drubin@parsec.com6 Received: from spw3.swiftpageemail.com (66.179.85.146)<          by velo.vixenation.ca (V5.3-18E, OpenVMS V7.3 VAX);'         Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:28:28 -0400 > Received: from SPW2 (66.179.85.140) by spw3.swiftpageemail.com (PowerMTA(TM) v3. 2 0r13) id h5lht20aonoi for <jfmezei@voxenation.ca>; To: jfmezei@vuxanotion.ca & From: "Dawn Rubin" <drubin@parsec.com>D Subject: Learn about the Next Generation of OpemVMS Software Support MIME-Version: 1.0 I Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="--PTCP_69ec9b3103151007d6" 0 Message-ID: <69ec9b3203151107d6@[66.179.85.140]>% Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:10:23 -0600     > This contains HTML which invokes content from an external siteG (swiftpagemail), probably to track readers and confirm email addresses.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 15:50:14 -0700 From: mail2allan@gmail.com Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS C Message-ID: <1160607013.920767.128930@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   @ > This contains HTML which invokes content from an external siteI > (swiftpagemail), probably to track readers and confirm email addresses.    Welcome to the Internet JFM!  E Just because an email contains HTML does not mean it is SPAM.  If you E don't wish to receive emails from Parsec (a well respected company in D the VMS community), then by all means BLOCK them.  Don't announce toG the world that they are spammers - I receive a couple dozen spam emails F a day, but I don't announce it to the world.  In fact, your post comes/ far closer to being SPAM than the Parsec email.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:49:34 -0400 , From: JFMezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS , Message-ID: <452D82FB.8120A061@teksavvy.com>   mail2allan@gmail.com wrote: ? > Just because an email contains HTML does not mean it is SPAM.   B Since VMS does not support HTML emails, sending such junk to a VMSC audience is not appropriate. And I do not know how they got my real F email address either. It was not fished from comp.os.vms automaticallyD unless someone has some sofwtare that really parses readable text to" find any possible email addresses.    E But the point is that even though Parsec may have a worthy message at C this point in time, sending unsollicited emails is not appropriate. C Serious companies who have operated on the internet for a long time  should have known about this.   B Posting a single message here advising you offer such services andJ advising perople to contact them provately for more details is acceptable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:40:48 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS G Message-ID: <ZvmdnRxzONudHLDYnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    mail2allan@gmail.com wrote: A >> This contains HTML which invokes content from an external site J >> (swiftpagemail), probably to track readers and confirm email addresses. >  > Welcome to the Internet JFM! > ? > Just because an email contains HTML does not mean it is SPAM.   E No shit, Sherlock:  what makes it SPAM is the fact that it was not a  D personal communication (and most likely was in fact a bulk mailing, > though in this case for perhaps a small value of 'bulk'), was & unsolicited, and was an advertisement.  	    If you G > don't wish to receive emails from Parsec (a well respected company in 3 > the VMS community), then by all means BLOCK them.   ( Well, he can do that too, if he chooses.      Don't announce to" > the world that they are spammers  F Announcing that here is perhaps the most effective way of making them H pay a price for spamming, so it's entirely appropriate (in fact, it can A be considered a public service - both in alerting a community of  B particular relevance to them about their dubious behavior, and in G providing them an opportunity to apologize and promise to do better in   the future).  (   - I receive a couple dozen spam emails. > a day, but I don't announce it to the world.  H Perhaps because you don't have a relevant part of the world to announce $ it to.  Or perhaps you're just lazy.      In fact, your post comes 1 > far closer to being SPAM than the Parsec email.   G You really shouldn't throw around words the meaning of which you don't  G understand - let alone do so publicly - unless, of course, you want to   look like a real idiot.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:32:31 -0400 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca>  Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS 6 Message-ID: <176a01c6ed95$e86faa20$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>  H >I am sorry to announce that I have received unsollicited mail from Dawn& > Rubin of PARSEC (drubin@parsec.com). >     I I received that spam too. But then again I have been receiving spam from  J them since I signed up for one of their on-line presentations months ago. F They claim that I signed up for a newsletter, but signing up for some H on-line presentation does not mean that I signed up for the newsletter. D Unfortunetly reporting them through SpamCop has done nothing so far.   Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca 9 CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail     ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 22:24:18 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS 3 Message-ID: <LZSZUtQI$zrN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <452D70F7.D1183742@teksavvy.com>, JFMezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: I > I am sorry to announce that I have received unsollicited mail from Dawn & > Rubin of PARSEC (drubin@parsec.com). >   > Return-Path: drubin@parsec.com8 > Received: from spw3.swiftpageemail.com (66.179.85.146)> >          by velo.vixenation.ca (V5.3-18E, OpenVMS V7.3 VAX);) >         Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:28:28 -0400 @ > Received: from SPW2 (66.179.85.140) by spw3.swiftpageemail.com > (PowerMTA(TM) v3. 4 > 0r13) id h5lht20aonoi for <jfmezei@voxenation.ca>; > To: jfmezei@vuxanotion.ca ( > From: "Dawn Rubin" <drubin@parsec.com>F > Subject: Learn about the Next Generation of OpemVMS Software Support > MIME-Version: 1.0 K > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="--PTCP_69ec9b3103151007d6" 2 > Message-ID: <69ec9b3203151107d6@[66.179.85.140]>' > Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:10:23 -0600  >  > @ > This contains HTML which invokes content from an external siteI > (swiftpagemail), probably to track readers and confirm email addresses.   C Too bad she is foolish enough to believe significant numbers of VMS E people read their mail in such a fashion as to be susceptible to such  tricks.   A Or perhaps they are targeting the subset of the VMS user base who  _are_ susceptible.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 22:26:41 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS 3 Message-ID: <HbKv6mb8O$Ep@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <1160607013.920767.128930@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mail2allan@gmail.com writes: > A >> This contains HTML which invokes content from an external site J >> (swiftpagemail), probably to track readers and confirm email addresses. >  > Welcome to the Internet JFM! > ? > Just because an email contains HTML does not mean it is SPAM.   B You are correct that such bugs do not automatically qualify such a@ message as spam.  They are a separate underhanded trick on their own.   > If youG > don't wish to receive emails from Parsec (a well respected company in F > the VMS community), then by all means BLOCK them.  Don't announce toI > the world that they are spammers - I receive a couple dozen spam emails . > a day, but I don't announce it to the world.  D I announce it to the world in an organized fashion, but reporting it through SpamCop.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:58:10 +0200 # From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> ' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes 4 Message-ID: <egjloq$ck9$1@registered.motzarella.org>  - <apogeusistemas@gmail.com> schreef in bericht = news:1160584128.467556.268670@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  >  > Roy Omond wrote:# > > apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:  > >  > > > Ian Miller wrote:  > > > 7 > > >>I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape. $ > > >>How old and what sort of tape? > > > A > > > They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old.  > > @ > > In a paradoxical way (assuming I understand what "tapes withD > > tape seal" means i.e. 9-track tape), this might be your saviour. > > @ > > Backup will be able to use CRC to reconstruct data from tapeC > > "bad spots" (which you're almost certainly going to encounter), @ > > whereas had the tapes been DLT, you'd have been scuppered by# > > the first bad spot on the tape.  > >  > > In any case, good luck.  > E > Sorry, they are 9-track tapes ( I didn't knew English terminology - 	 > here in ( > Brazil they are named "fita de rolo".) > . > This tapes haves sets - 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, etc. > % > Need I read them in this sequence ?  >   L Yes you do need to read them in sequence. Think of the backup saveset as oneJ large file that spans several tapes. Could fit on just one tape, though in; your case one saveset obviously took several 9-track tapes. K You wrote that the tapes are 15 years old. Actually age is not the problem, I I've read tapes that age without a problem. The way the've been stored is G somewhat important: not too humid and most important: the manufacturer. K Once you start talking about old magtapes, the first answer you get is "bad I blocks" or "bad spots". These things may happen occasionally but the real E problem is moisture. The magnetic coating layer is glued to a plastic K carrier. The glue, thin layer that it is, is probably the singular decisive G factor in the long term usefulnes of a tape. Because some glues attract C water, which forms a very thin layer between the the tape surfaces. H Unwinding a tape becomes more problematic while reading a tape up to the4 point that the drive can't advance the reel anymore.! That can be fixed (once) however. * What brand are the tapes you're restoring?& So good luck, and use BACKUP/VERIFY...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 01:01:44 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> ' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes . Message-ID: <YtgXg.129092$R63.76055@pd7urf1no>  / "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> wrote in message  . news:egjloq$ck9$1@registered.motzarella.org... > / > <apogeusistemas@gmail.com> schreef in bericht ? > news:1160584128.467556.268670@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  >> >> Roy Omond wrote: $ >> > apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: >> > >> > > Ian Miller wrote: >> > >8 >> > >>I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape.% >> > >>How old and what sort of tape?  >> > >B >> > > They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old. >> >A >> > In a paradoxical way (assuming I understand what "tapes with E >> > tape seal" means i.e. 9-track tape), this might be your saviour.  >> >A >> > Backup will be able to use CRC to reconstruct data from tape D >> > "bad spots" (which you're almost certainly going to encounter),A >> > whereas had the tapes been DLT, you'd have been scuppered by $ >> > the first bad spot on the tape. >> > >> > In any case, good luck. >>F >> Sorry, they are 9-track tapes ( I didn't knew English terminology -
 >> here in) >> Brazil they are named "fita de rolo".)  >>/ >> This tapes haves sets - 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, etc.  >>& >> Need I read them in this sequence ? >> > K > Yes you do need to read them in sequence. Think of the backup saveset as   > one L > large file that spans several tapes. Could fit on just one tape, though in= > your case one saveset obviously took several 9-track tapes. E > You wrote that the tapes are 15 years old. Actually age is not the  
 > problem,K > I've read tapes that age without a problem. The way the've been stored is I > somewhat important: not too humid and most important: the manufacturer. I > Once you start talking about old magtapes, the first answer you get is   > "badK > blocks" or "bad spots". These things may happen occasionally but the real G > problem is moisture. The magnetic coating layer is glued to a plastic E > carrier. The glue, thin layer that it is, is probably the singular  
 > decisiveI > factor in the long term usefulnes of a tape. Because some glues attract E > water, which forms a very thin layer between the the tape surfaces. J > Unwinding a tape becomes more problematic while reading a tape up to the6 > point that the drive can't advance the reel anymore.# > That can be fixed (once) however. , > What brand are the tapes you're restoring?( > So good luck, and use BACKUP/VERIFY... >  >   K All verify will do is re-read the tape and compare it against what it read  I on the first pass....  in a restore, It's a check against the data being  E written properly on the disk - not being read properly from the tape.   ) I would not recommend it for an old tape.   J The wonderful VMS backup will fly over bad spots and try to recover using L the checksummed block.  I can't remember what the default is - but there is M a block stored every "N" blocks that contains the checksum of all the blocks   in the previous checksum block.   I If a parity error is found by the tape drive, then the system will retry  M until it fives up.  In any case, if it can't recover the data it will try to  I rebuild the missing data from the rest of the data in the checksum group.   I I remember the San Diego decus where the '750 was announced.  They did a  I backup, scrapped an inch of oxide off the tape and restored from it - !!   Raid 5 on tape..  G Anyway - if it doesn't get it on the first pass - you are probably SOL  F (unless of course you are using an early TS-11, in which case I would * suggest trying another type of tape drive)   Villy    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:05:35 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 20 Message-ID: <00A5D0D7.8D0734A5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <0f6601c6ed52$e1b38e60$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>, "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> writes: >  >  >>>>... E >>>> I just noticed that a new version of SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation . >>>> Release 2 is available for download from: >>>>: >>>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html >>>>$ >>>> p.s. I haven't installed it yet >>>>...  >>> 8 >>>When you do install it you have to make sure you copyL >>>samba_root:[backup]smb.conf to samba_root:[lib] after you do the install  >>>andJ >>>then restart Samba. Other than that I have not yet seen any problems on >>>Alpha or IA64.  >>3 >> I don't have this samba_root:[backup] directory.  >> -- 4 >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker  >> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  >>6 >>  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> > H >I had the directory created on both the IA64 and AXP installs but both M >systems had a previous Samba installation on them and both had modified the   >smb.conf files.  K So did I.  Had I knows that this install was going to trash the SMB.CONF, I " would have saved it off somewhere.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:15:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Searchlist logicals for SYS$LOGIN ?, Message-ID: <452D6CF3.8204879A@teksavvy.com>  ) I'd like to have the following structure:   %   [user1]      [user2]        [user3] "     +             +              +"     +-------------+--------------+                   +                [common]    G So basically, when user1 logs in, a DIR of his SYS$LOGIN shows files in " [user1] and then files in [common]    D This way' i can place common read-only files in [common] and make itG easy to add/remove users without impacting on the common directory, and D I can then also access individual log files created for each user in their first directory.      B I know how to create something that emulates the SYS$LOGIN for theE account SYSTEM. But in such a case, the "/DEVICE" in authorize is the A one with the search list, and the "/DIRECTORY" is appended to all  members in the searchlist.  C aka: disk:[SYS0.] + [SYSMGR]  and disk:[sys0.syscommon.] + [SYSMGR]         E But for the second translation, I want a full directory specification  instead of a rooted logical.   aka:I 	disk:[000000.] + [user1]   and   disk2:[common] and nothing added to it.    Is this possible ?   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:55:20 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)0 Subject: Re: Searchlist logicals for SYS$LOGIN ?2 Message-ID: <06101117552073_2020028F@antinode.org>  - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   D > I know how to create something that emulates the SYS$LOGIN for theG > account SYSTEM. But in such a case, the "/DEVICE" in authorize is the C > one with the search list, and the "/DIRECTORY" is appended to all  > members in the searchlist. > E > aka: disk:[SYS0.] + [SYSMGR]  and disk:[sys0.syscommon.] + [SYSMGR]  > G > But for the second translation, I want a full directory specification  > instead of a rooted logical. >  > aka:      "aka"?  "e.g."?  K > 	disk:[000000.] + [user1]   and   disk2:[common] and nothing added to it.  >  > Is this possible ?  F    I don't see how, but what's stopping you from defining SYS$LOGIN to) anything you want in SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM?   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:57:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: VAX 6000 still doesn't start , Message-ID: <452D68B4.E1E4E020@teksavvy.com>   This may or may not help you.   H Last week, I pulled out a TF85 drive from a DSSI enclosure.  No problem.  F But when I put the unit back it, the whole cabinet powered off. I haveH to pysically move the power switch to OFF for a while and then power the cabinet back up.  F Seems that the power su0pply detected an anomaly/short when I insertedH the tape drive into the DSSI slot and shut down. The power supply had no* fault indication on it. But fans were off.  F If you have a compressor, try blowing air into each backpane connector? to ensure there is no "lint" that could short the power leads.    F Did you manage to pull out ALL boards from the system and try to powerG it up to see if the power supply is then happy ? And then put back each ( board one by one until a fault happens ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:33:30 -0400 F From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>) Subject: Re: VAX 6000 still doesn't start 8 Message-ID: <8jeXg.6468$nn6.3148@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   Power   " What voltage is the system running9 This sounds almost like the input voltage could be wrong. I Did the system come in from another country or was utilising a different  
 power source?   F Have you had anything replaced by maintenance org that may be voltage 
 sensitive?  6 "Ian King" <iking@cs.washington.edu> wrote in message + news:J6z9pK.rHn@beaver.cs.washington.edu...  > All, > 2 > In the continuing saga of one man's VAX 6660.... > M > To quickly recap: when powered up, the machine's front panel lights up for  L > about five seconds, then goes dark; the fans continue to run.  The H7206B L > shows an error LED claiming there's an XMI-1 card in the XMI-2 backplane; L > examination shows this is not true, and the same error shows even with NO M > cards in the XMI backplane.  The H7214 and H7242 regulators show DC OK for  G > that five seconds, then go dark.  The H7215 never shows DC OK.  This  K > machine also has VAXBI, and that side's regulators show DC OK; I swapped  K > the H7215s between XMI and VAXBI, and either H7215 works on the BI side,   > but not the XMI side.  > M > The last thing I was asked was: does the XMI-side H7215 show ANY activity,  I > i.e. hook up a scope to its output and see if it ever flickers.  I did  M > this, and the answer is yes: there is a very brief output voltage (I tried  ( > this on three different output lines). > K > I've replaced the H7206B AND the control/status cable between the H7206B  K > and the XMI regulators AND the XTC sequencer.  I've compared voltages at  J > the various pins of the control connector on the respective H7215s and, J > while they differ, I do not have any information that tells me which is  > which. > L > So I'm still hoping to find someone who has deeper knowledge of the power K > system and is willing to share.  I really wish I could find someone with  I > schematics of the H7206B and XTC sequencer, as it's plausible that the  L > replacements don't work, either.  In fact, the H7206B has an odd symptom: I > its internal fan does not turn.  I had intended to replace it but, for  M > some reason, decided to test the existing fan before I did: it worked fine  I > on a bench supply.  It looks like it feeds off the same 24v as the big  K > cabinet fans (which I've verified are really powered and turning).  This  : > symptom exists in both the original and the replacement. > L > Does anyone perhaps have any additional service information in an old box H > of fiche?  (I have all the usual "owner's documentation," such as the L > technical information manual, maintenance guide, etc.)  Schematics, or at + > least logic diagrams, would sure help....  > L > Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on the saga of my large room  > fan....  -- Ian  > 1 > iking (at-thing) killthewabbit (dot-thing) org     ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 11:22:50 -0700) From: "DaveG" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India B Message-ID: <1160590970.088580.244570@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  
 Ray wrote:   > A > You can't seem to understand that HP has *ALREADY* discontinued @ > VMS development. Nemo was the last hurrah. The only meaningfulE > development you will see in the future is new hardware support. The H > latest round of cuts has caused VMS engineering to lose critical mass.H > Do you truly think it was only a coincidence that this latest round ofA > cuts in engineering came at the completion and release of Nemo?  >   D How do you *know* that Nemo is/was the last hurrah for VMS?  Current roadmaps show otherwise.   Dave...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:42:12 -0400  From: "Ray" <no@spam.me>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India + Message-ID: <wGcXg.113$kb2.47@newsfe03.lga>   F > How do you *know* that Nemo is/was the last hurrah for VMS?  Current > roadmaps show otherwise.  B I don't have any inside knowledge. But I can observe. Let's see...  F On the one hand, there were "comittments" for EV8, and TruClusters andH AdvFS were promised to be ported to HP-UX. (This is hardly an exhaustive list of HP's broken promises.)  H And on the other hand, ~25% of the engineering group that delivered Nemo) has been fired, with more layoffs coming.   , Your turn. Make an inference from the facts.  G "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but  that's the way to bet."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:01:25 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 0 Message-ID: <877iz6n34a.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  # VMSguy <vmsguy@comcast.net> writes:   E > My response - then cut my support contract to 10% of what it is now - > - that is what I feel the service is worth.   B No, crank up you `support' with hp to top level garenteed fix time) with a large penalty for non conformance.   F Treat it as a revenue source. If they are 10 sec over time, bill them.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:02:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India , Message-ID: <452D69D0.1495AEBD@teksavvy.com>   DaveG wrote:F > How do you *know* that Nemo is/was the last hurrah for VMS?  Current > roadmaps show otherwise.    G VMS customers have learned thatr roadmaps are not legal commitments. HP E can change them at any time. Where is the VAX version of 8.2 that had  been on the roadmap ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:27:25 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India 9 Message-ID: <6audnYofL65N8LDYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@libcom.com>   
 Ray wrote:G >> How do you *know* that Nemo is/was the last hurrah for VMS?  Current  >> roadmaps show otherwise.  > D > I don't have any inside knowledge. But I can observe. Let's see... > H > On the one hand, there were "comittments" for EV8, and TruClusters andJ > AdvFS were promised to be ported to HP-UX. (This is hardly an exhaustive  > list of HP's broken promises.) > J > And on the other hand, ~25% of the engineering group that delivered Nemo+ > has been fired, with more layoffs coming.  > . > Your turn. Make an inference from the facts. > I > "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but  > that's > the way to bet." >  >   J What are you calling 'Nemo'?  For the edification of us not 'in the know'.  3 As mentioned, HP is real good at breaking promises.   D Even if they don't break promises, who will be doing the design and E programming?  Will null terminated strings and other such hacking be  H introduced to VMS?  Will the quality of VMS come down to match the rest - of the world?  If so, then who would want it?   7 Like you, I'm betting on what I see, not what I'm told.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:40:17 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India / Message-ID: <lpeXg.973$KO.688@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dave Froble wrote:  L > What are you calling 'Nemo'?  For the edification of us not 'in the know'. >   5 NEMO was the internal code-name for the V8.3 release.      --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 18:50:16 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ! Subject: Re: VMS Support in India ; Message-ID: <452d74ef$0$5904$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   K OK so it looks like the www.theinquirer.net rumour about OpenVMS moving to  H India was true, but has support for HP-UX moved to India as well? If it M hasn't, then I'll need to retract my statement a few years back where I said  & "OpenVMS has found a good home at HP".  L On the flip side, Sue is over in Europe doing OpenVMS technical update days 4 so it looks like HP is still promoting this product.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html      ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2006 11:58:22 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? A Message-ID: <1160593102.639597.52670@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Richard Brodie wrote: ; > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message & > news:452be5ce@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > [ > >   I've submitted an enhancement request 75-118-33 against the OpenVMS documentation for 5 > > DCL; a request that this behaviour be documented.  > K > After Robert's assertion that it was, in fact, documented I went back and . > checked. Indeed, it is a documented feature:J > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_003.html#index_x_209E > Not a surprising one to anyone who was brought up on Colossal Cave.    Also, on this page:   I <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_030.html#symbols_ch>   ? This feature certainly should be more clearly documented, but a D carefully reading of the two pages explains why it works as it does.  # Symbol substitution is tried first.   A "If you define a symbol with the same name as a DCL command, your + definition overrides the DCL command name."    If no matching symbol is found:   = "DCL looks only at the first four characters for uniqueness."   A So, if DELETEX does not exactly match a symbol, only DELE will be ! examined and DELETE will execute.   8 You could also enter DELEX to accomplish the same thing.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.560 ************************