1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 14 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 564       Contents:. Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines. Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines. Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines" Friday the 13th horror: Hoff at MS& Re: Friday the 13th horror: Hoff at MS& Re: Friday the 13th horror: Hoff at MS Re: Opteron  Re: Opteron  Re: Opteron & Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX& Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX& Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX& Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX& Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMSMail question Re: VMSMail question Re: VMSMail question Re: We BUY Alpha systems Re: We BUY Alpha systems Re: We BUY Alpha systems Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX? Re: What is DELETEX?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:00:13 -0700 From: amelia_airhead@yahoo.com7 Subject: Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines C Message-ID: <1160766013.424066.267490@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Martin Vorlaender wrote:! > amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote:  > > Jeff wrote: $ > >> amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote:K > >> >   Three of us are attempting to use the debugger on our own machines  > >> > and failing.  > >> > > >> > On our own machines: L > >> >   run theProgram.exe - The GUI flashes up on the screen and goes away > >> > immediately.  > >>J > >> I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble. Below are some suggestions. > >> > ...  > >>M > >> > Is there some other log I can find information on why the debugger GUI , > >> > is not saying up on our own machines? > >>L > >> Please temporarily disable the debugger's DECwindows interface and then > >> run your program: > >>' > >>      $ define dbg$decw$display " "  > >>      $ run theProgram > >>H > >> I expect that you will see some additional error messages that willF > >> provide clues to the problem. Please post the results if you need > >> further assistance. > > F > >  I redefined the debug display as you instructed.  It has the sameF > > information as it does on the successful GUI run but finishes with > > the same error:  > > & > >  OpenVMS Alpha version information* > >  %DEBUG-I-INITIAL, Language: ADA, etc.6 > >  %DEBUG-I-NOTATMAIN, Type GO to reach Main program6 > >  %DEBUG-W-NEEDMORE, unexpected end of command line > > H > > and then I'm back at the prompt.  I didn't type "go" so where is the > > second message coming from?  > G > The NOTATMAIN message is someting that you see when there's a runtime F > library initialization routine compiled in (e.g. for C). It's purelyH > informational in that you need to take extra action to reach the entry > point of your program. > B > I'd suspect that the NEEDMORE message comes from an error in theD > (optional) debugger initialization file. Please have a look at theF > value of the logical name DBG$INIT, and if it's defined, look at the$ > commands in the file it points to. >  > HTH,
 >   Martin > --= >                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 0 > Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deC > to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 7 > Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    Martin,   B   There's nothing in the VMSDEBUG.DAT, I deleted everything in it.     Amelia   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:01:47 -0700 From: amelia_airhead@yahoo.com7 Subject: Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines B Message-ID: <1160766107.644813.27810@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Paul Sture wrote: = > In article <452f0226.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, 6 >  martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote: > # > > amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote:  > > > Jeff wrote: & > > >> amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote:M > > >> >   Three of us are attempting to use the debugger on our own machines  > > >> > and failing.  > > >> > > > >> > On our own machines: N > > >> >   run theProgram.exe - The GUI flashes up on the screen and goes away > > >> > immediately.  > > >>L > > >> I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble. Below are some suggestions. > > >> > > ...  > > >>O > > >> > Is there some other log I can find information on why the debugger GUI . > > >> > is not saying up on our own machines? > > >>N > > >> Please temporarily disable the debugger's DECwindows interface and then > > >> run your program: > > >>) > > >>      $ define dbg$decw$display " "  > > >>      $ run theProgram > > >>J > > >> I expect that you will see some additional error messages that willH > > >> provide clues to the problem. Please post the results if you need > > >> further assistance. > > > H > > >  I redefined the debug display as you instructed.  It has the sameH > > > information as it does on the successful GUI run but finishes with > > > the same error:  > > > ( > > >  OpenVMS Alpha version information, > > >  %DEBUG-I-INITIAL, Language: ADA, etc.8 > > >  %DEBUG-I-NOTATMAIN, Type GO to reach Main program8 > > >  %DEBUG-W-NEEDMORE, unexpected end of command line > > > J > > > and then I'm back at the prompt.  I didn't type "go" so where is the! > > > second message coming from?  > > I > > The NOTATMAIN message is someting that you see when there's a runtime H > > library initialization routine compiled in (e.g. for C). It's purelyJ > > informational in that you need to take extra action to reach the entry > > point of your program. > > D > > I'd suspect that the NEEDMORE message comes from an error in theF > > (optional) debugger initialization file. Please have a look at theH > > value of the logical name DBG$INIT, and if it's defined, look at the& > > commands in the file it points to. > >  > J > Could this be a quota problem? Can you check the user quotas against the* > system where you _can_ run the debugger? >  > -- > Paul Sture   Paul,   $   There's no quota on either system.     Amelia   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 00:03:42 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 7 Subject: Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-6CC783.00034214102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B In article <1160766107.644813.27810@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,   amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote:   > Paul Sture wrote:   L > > Could this be a quota problem? Can you check the user quotas against the, > > system where you _can_ run the debugger? > >  >  > Paul,  > & >   There's no quota on either system. >   C Sorry, I meant process quotas in the User Authorization File (UAF).   B Do you see any differences in the output of the following command : between the system that does work and the ones that don't?   $ SHOW PROCESS /QUOTA    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:19:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Friday the 13th horror: Hoff at MS , Message-ID: <452FE6A9.2D067318@teksavvy.com>  A Today is friday the 13th, and the most scary thought disturbed my , already disturbed brain a few minutes ago...  F What if HOFF joined the DEC alumni at Microsoft and started to work toA fixup Windows and give it full clustering and DCL compatibility ?   D Since HP is, from a practical point of view, a joint venture betweenE Microsoft and Intel, HOFF wouldn't really be working for a competitor 0 and thus be allowed to use all his knowledge....  0 (sorry if the above thoughts ruined your friday)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:38:50 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>/ Subject: Re: Friday the 13th horror: Hoff at MS = Message-ID: <MPG.1f99d179dee024e989730@news.bellatlantic.net>   - In article <452FE6A9.2D067318@teksavvy.com>,  $ jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com says...C > Today is friday the 13th, and the most scary thought disturbed my . > already disturbed brain a few minutes ago... > H > What if HOFF joined the DEC alumni at Microsoft and started to work toC > fixup Windows and give it full clustering and DCL compatibility ?  > F > Since HP is, from a practical point of view, a joint venture betweenG > Microsoft and Intel, HOFF wouldn't really be working for a competitor 2 > and thus be allowed to use all his knowledge.... > 2 > (sorry if the above thoughts ruined your friday) >   ; Hey, if NT 8.0 has DCL, Cluster compatibility (requires the > lock manager), the full set of system services and RTL's, TECO< and BASIC (or your choice of languages), and VMS reliability< and security, then I'm cool with it.  And it will run on the 8086 game controller ;-) !!!  > (Remember the "VMS is today what MS wants NT 8 to be" from the< web site?  W2K = NT 5, W2K3 = NT 6, Vista = NT 7, so NT 8 is the "Hoff" version.)     --   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:06:27 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> / Subject: Re: Friday the 13th horror: Hoff at MS ; Message-ID: <45300db5$0$5895$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:452FE6A9.2D067318@teksavvy.com...C > Today is friday the 13th, and the most scary thought disturbed my . > already disturbed brain a few minutes ago... > H > What if HOFF joined the DEC alumni at Microsoft and started to work toC > fixup Windows and give it full clustering and DCL compatibility ?  > F > Since HP is, from a practical point of view, a joint venture betweenG > Microsoft and Intel, HOFF wouldn't really be working for a competitor 2 > and thus be allowed to use all his knowledge.... > 2 > (sorry if the above thoughts ruined your friday)  ; Don't laugh because this just happened to me today at work.   K I was sitting at my Windows-XP SP2 terminal when I received the blue screen H of death. The system automatically rebooted. When I logged in the systemE automatically did a crash dump analysis (~3 seconds), found a serious  problem J with one of my device drivers, then asked if it was OK to send the results2 of the analysis to Microsoft for further analysis.  F (no one in the office had ever seen anything like this and we did someF poking around to see what was going to be sent to MS. There was a fileG called SYSTEM.DMP which was about 80 MB in size and a 200K XML analysis J file. After I clicked "OK to send" the DMP and XML files were all deleted.  F Someone over my shoulder made a comment about this behaviour being due( to the continued efforts of Dave Cutler)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:20:20 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: Opteron* Message-ID: <452faeb5@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Neil Rieck wrote: 7 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote in message % > news:op.tg9vxilztte90l@hyrrokkin... B >> Might be a good time for VMS Engineering to feed any additional >> requirements to AMD    O    As for HP's OpenVMS and HP-UX product lines and plans, Intel Itanium is the  O processor and HP Integrity is the platform.   Itanium is supported for OpenVMS  = I64 and for HP-UX, it works, and Integrity servers available.   P    Comparable Integrity system configuration prices are rather lower than those ' of an equivalent Alpha system, as well.   F    And for completeness, I know of no plans to port OpenVMS to x86-64.   	--   K    The easiest approach to this end is an Alpha or VAX emulator, obviously.   L    There's a whole sequence needed for a platform port and -- starting with P access to the source code for the operating system and for the core build tools N -- this is involving roughly 30 to 40 gigabytes of source code, give or take, D and various work in a set of compilers.  Plus core layered products.  L    This if you want to ask HP for all this, and particularly for the pieces < needed to perform the port out in the open-source community.  N    Then -- assuming HP then decides to parallel Sun Solaris in opening up the J source pool -- you have to figure out what to do to get it all to work on Q x86-64, and that's not a small project in itself.  That's likely a full-time job  L of a number of software engineering folks for probably two years, and quite O possibly rather more.  And you're probably going to have to add on a migration  ; over to a new database and/or to Subversion or CVS or such.   P    For as long as it may remain accessible, there is some background on porting  OpenVMS in the following:   G    http://h20325.www2.hp.com/blogs/hoffman/archive/2006/07/22/1364.html   P    There are additional details around the Intel Itanium port available over in  the Technical Journal, as well.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:07:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Opteron, Message-ID: <45300017.85EE43C6@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: H >    And for completeness, I know of no plans to port OpenVMS to x86-64.  G Ho difficult would it be to convince HP to make plans to port it to the : industry standard commodity platform you mentioned above ?  M >    There's a whole sequence needed for a platform port and -- starting with Q > access to the source code for the operating system and for the core build tools   C You don't need the source code since you know it be heart and could  retype it at home :-) :-)     O >    Then -- assuming HP then decides to parallel Sun Solaris in opening up the K > source pool -- you have to figure out what to do to get it all to work on   D Not just open the source pool, but also make VMS work on the 8086-64B industry standard commodity platform, giving VMS a presence in theG small/medium business market as well as keeping that IA64 thing for the C high end (until the 64 bit 8086 scales to that in 2008 when the new ( system interface appears on the market).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:31:17 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Opteron; Message-ID: <45301387$0$5940$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   : "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:452faeb5@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Neil Rieck wrote:    [...snip...]  L >   As for HP's OpenVMS and HP-UX product lines and plans, Intel Itanium is M > the processor and HP Integrity is the platform.   Itanium is supported for  G > OpenVMS I64 and for HP-UX, it works, and Integrity servers available.  > K >   Comparable Integrity system configuration prices are rather lower than  / > those of an equivalent Alpha system, as well.  > G >   And for completeness, I know of no plans to port OpenVMS to x86-64.  >  > -- > L >   The easiest approach to this end is an Alpha or VAX emulator, obviously. > M >   There's a whole sequence needed for a platform port and -- starting with  L > access to the source code for the operating system and for the core build M > tools -- this is involving roughly 30 to 40 gigabytes of source code, give  F > or take, and various work in a set of compilers.  Plus core layered  > products.  > M >   This if you want to ask HP for all this, and particularly for the pieces  > > needed to perform the port out in the open-source community. > K >   Then -- assuming HP then decides to parallel Sun Solaris in opening up  M > the source pool -- you have to figure out what to do to get it all to work  H > on x86-64, and that's not a small project in itself.  That's likely a K > full-time job of a number of software engineering folks for probably two  L > years, and quite possibly rather more.  And you're probably going to have K > to add on a migration over to a new database and/or to Subversion or CVS  
 > or such. >   L I'm sure I'm not the only one currently wondering if HP execs have plans to M slowly kill off OpenVMS. (this statement is based upon their latest actions;  F dumping OpenVMS support to India will also enable more North American J companies to provide third party support which sounds very similar to all 5 the companies supporting different flavours of LINUX)   L If they intend on killing the OS, then putting OpenVMS source code into the F public domain is better than destroying it. While it may no longer be L commercially feasible to have 100 paid engineers do a platform port, having K 1000 people doing it for free might be an alternative. I'm not saying this  J port would be painless, but at least OpenVMS would eventually find itself  living on another architecture.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 09:53:19 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>/ Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX , Message-ID: <452f9a4f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  + "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message < news:1160743389.411052.285880@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >  > Simon Clubley wrote:F > > What is the current situation with regards to VMS capable laptops,L > > especially those with pricing that could be bought for personal/home use ?  > >  > B > running VMS in an emulator on your laptop is your only option at
 > present. >    I still have my Tadpole ;-)    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Oct 2006 19:21:05 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX , Message-ID: <egoov101qm1@enews1.newsguy.com>   VAXman- wrote:n > In article <041701c6eed4$24b88df0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>, "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> writes:I > >CHARON-VAX, CHARON-AXP and PersonalAlpha all have networking support.  I > >Yesterday I had CHARON-VAX (VMS 7.3) and PersonalAlpha (VMS 8.3) both  H > >running at the same time on my laptop. I have had CHARON-VAX join my M > >AXP/IA64 cluster before and I was tempted to try clustering my CHARON-VAX  K > >and PersonalAlpha both running on the same laptop but I ran out of time.   F > I was under the impression that these "products" were Weendoze only.  B I believe some of them support Linux (as well as OpenVMS/Alpha andJ OpenVMS/ia64), however, if you want something for a Mac laptop you'll need to try SIMH.  E My question would be, do *any* of the emulators support "idling" on a I laptop?  You really don't want the emulation driving the host CPU at 100% % all the time, especially on a laptop.    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:04:23 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX 5 Message-ID: <slrneivsa7.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   ] In article <egoov101qm1@enews1.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:  > G > My question would be, do *any* of the emulators support "idling" on a K > laptop?  You really don't want the emulation driving the host CPU at 100% ' > all the time, especially on a laptop.   < SIMH does, with Villy Madsen's patch. CHARON-* does as well.   -Dan   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2006 00:05:32 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX , Message-ID: <egp9kc02mbi@enews3.newsguy.com>  & Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:_ > In article <egoov101qm1@enews1.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:  > > I > > My question would be, do *any* of the emulators support "idling" on a M > > laptop?  You really don't want the emulation driving the host CPU at 100% ) > > all the time, especially on a laptop.   > > SIMH does, with Villy Madsen's patch. CHARON-* does as well.  J Is the patch host OS specific, or host OS neutral?  I've a system or two I might consider running it on.    	Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:47:59 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX 5 Message-ID: <slrnej0ctv.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   ] In article <egp9kc02mbi@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote: ( > Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:` >> In article <egoov101qm1@enews1.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote: >> >J >> > My question would be, do *any* of the emulators support "idling" on aN >> > laptop?  You really don't want the emulation driving the host CPU at 100%* >> > all the time, especially on a laptop. > ? >> SIMH does, with Villy Madsen's patch. CHARON-* does as well.  > L > Is the patch host OS specific, or host OS neutral?  I've a system or two I > might consider running it on.   H Regarding Mr. Madsen's SIMH patches for idling SIMH when the emulated OS is not heavily computing:   B David Holland provided a Linux port (minor modifications involved,F mostly some general portability clean-ups) which was reintegrated backC into Mr. Madsen's patches and has been verified as working for both  Win32 and Linux.  H Presumably other UNIX OSes that already runs SIMH should also be able to; build and run it, possibly with minor tweaks to the source.    	http://68.150.97.212/simh/   F I *think* Mr. Madsen also made this stuff work for the PDP-11 as well,4 though I didn't pay as much attention to that angle.  > It was a technically interesting exercise as to how Mr. MadsenB implemented this work (partly by using the DN-11 I/O address afterG correctly reasoning that this was unlikely to be used by most people in  a simulated environment).    -Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 00:39:24 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX Y Message-ID: <rdeininger-1310062039200001@dialup-4.233.149.5.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>   3 In article <452e3740$1@mvb.saic.com>, Mark Berryman  <mark@theberrymans.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote:C >> In article <slrneinp0v.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>, Dan Foster  >> <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote: >>   >>  I >>>        4. HP is not selling VMS servers in the workstation or low-end N >>>           arena; they are concentrated on medium range and high end sales. >>  H >> This is simply false.  HP is selling entry-level servers (see rx1620,H >> rx2620) and "workstations" (use the optional built-in graphics in theL >> above, or add a better-performing PCI graphics card).  VMS supports theseL >> configurations.  They are among the most popular VMS/Integrity offerings. >>  J >> Integrity "workstations" are servers with graphics, keyboard, and mouseM >> added, which is the same situation we've had on AlphaServers/AlphaStations E >> for a number of years.  The only difference is the verbiage in the ) >> marketing materials and product names.  > M >Apparently we differ on the definition of a workstation.  All of my current  L >workstations support both graphics and sound, including my Alpha VMS based C >workstation.  To my knowledge, HP is not currently selling any VMS 
 workstations  E >with sound capabilities and, as far this customer is concerned, that  means that  + >they are not selling any VMS workstations.   I In that case you are correct.  If your definition of workstation includes < sound support, then there are no VMS Integrity workstations.  9 There ARE VMS/Integrity entry-level offerings, as I said.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:09:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: VMSMail question + Message-ID: <452FF275.8424941@teksavvy.com>    Tom Linden wrote: K > Ah, yes, tcpip, but I am running MX as my smtp server, would that matter?   E The MAIL command doesn't know/touch TCPIP. If MAIL says it can't fidn E the MAIL folder, it is something very "local" to the mail application  and your mail.mai file.    > MAIL> dir . > %MAIL-E-NOTEXIST, folder MAIL does not exist  9 This is normal where there are no messages in the folder.   D However, if you try MC DECW$MAIL (on a workstation), it gets you the= decwindows version of MAIL which may show your empty folders.     @ if you do a DIR/FULL DISK$COMMON:[USER.TOM.MAIL] does it shows a gazillion mail files ?  A if you look only for MAIL.* perhaps there is a MAIL.OLD that does * contain the pointers to all your messges ?F (indicative that a MAIL COMPRESS may have failed, something which usedC to happen on older version of VMS because the user did not have the G right to delete the file so the MAIL COMPRESS command would fail midway  in the convert command.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:35:20 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: VMSMail question * Message-ID: <452fb23c@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Tom Linden wrote: > > I am away and logging 0.n remotely to a node using ssh I get >  > MAIL> dir . > %MAIL-E-NOTEXIST, folder MAIL does not exist  O    This looks like either your MAIL.MAI file got stomped on, got corrupted, or  L otherwise got clobbered, or you're not looking at your "real" MAIL.MAI file.    G > so what happened to my folders?  How do I recreate MAIL folder. There / > appear to lots of messages in that directory.   5    Folders are simply fields in the MAIL.MAI records.   A    Find out if this is your real and current MAIL.MAI file first.   0    Then (if it is) find out what happened to it.  Q    Then see if you have a BACKUP of your MAIL.MAI and the usual herd of outboard  < MAIL$mumble.MAI files that are used for the larger messages.  M    Whether or not you have a BACKUP and before you start to try to repair an  I existing file or replace and existing file and/or you are about to start  N analyzing the file for RMS-level corruptions, do (obviously) make a BACKUP of J the MAIL.MAI file (and the herd) before you start working with your file. P Obvious, I know, but I've missed this step occasionally.  Even better, create a O copy of the problem MAIL.MAI (and its herd) and then go work on and attempt to  
 repair that.)   Q    There are various VFY and repair tools for MAIL.MAI corruptions on various of  N the Freeware (and particularly on the older Freeware) that can potentially be M pressed into service here.  VFYMAIL comes to mind, but it's been years since  # I've gone after one of these tools.   P    Do also check the OpenVMS ECO level, as there was a case where CONVERT had a N problem that tended to hit MAIL, and there have been occasional I/O or RMS or G caching updates for problems that could conceivably trigger a MAIL.MAI  N corruption.  (Without knowing the version in use here, there's no easy way to ) indicate which ECOs are required, etc...)   I    And of course, do look to see if this is your correct MAIL.MAI.  I've  M certainly ended up looking at a stale MAIL.MAI file from time to time -- and  K I've seen this arise when the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA database and SYSUAF.DAT  O become skewed, such as cases where a cluster is not completely configured, and  P the full set of files isn't shared.  See V7.2 and later SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE for  that list.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 00:16:41 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: VMSMail question J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-E2CFA3.00164114102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  + In article <452FF275.8424941@teksavvy.com>, /  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Tom Linden wrote: M > > Ah, yes, tcpip, but I am running MX as my smtp server, would that matter?  > G > The MAIL command doesn't know/touch TCPIP. If MAIL says it can't fidn G > the MAIL folder, it is something very "local" to the mail application  > and your mail.mai file.  > 
 > > MAIL> dir 0 > > %MAIL-E-NOTEXIST, folder MAIL does not exist > ; > This is normal where there are no messages in the folder.  > F > However, if you try MC DECW$MAIL (on a workstation), it gets you the? > decwindows version of MAIL which may show your empty folders.  >  > B > if you do a DIR/FULL DISK$COMMON:[USER.TOM.MAIL] does it shows a > gazillion mail files ? > C > if you look only for MAIL.* perhaps there is a MAIL.OLD that does , > contain the pointers to all your messges ?H > (indicative that a MAIL COMPRESS may have failed, something which usedE > to happen on older version of VMS because the user did not have the I > right to delete the file so the MAIL COMPRESS command would fail midway  > in the convert command.   6 There is also the ORPHANS package on the Freeware CDs:  H "ORPHANS, UTILITIES, Mail tool that checks dangling pointers in MAIL.MAI  I Orphan is a mail tool that checks for mail message files with no pointers E from MAIL.MAI.  It also checks for pointers in MAIL.MAI with no mail   message files."   6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/ORPHANS/   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:23:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: We BUY Alpha systems + Message-ID: <452FE794.29802E0@teksavvy.com>   % "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote: " > Alphaserver DS10L 617Mhz Systems    ) How much would you give for for a DS10L ?   = (The one I just got from you for free :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:14:18 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ! Subject: Re: We BUY Alpha systems ; Message-ID: <45300f8c$0$5939$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  % news:452FE794.29802E0@teksavvy.com... ' > "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote: # >> Alphaserver DS10L 617Mhz Systems  >  > + > How much would you give for for a DS10L ?  > ? > (The one I just got from you for free :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-)   4 Sacrilege! A special hell awaits people like you :-)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 03:13:55 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) ! Subject: Re: We BUY Alpha systems ( Message-ID: <egpklj$nle$1@pcls4.std.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   & >"Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote:# >> Alphaserver DS10L 617Mhz Systems     * >How much would you give for for a DS10L ?  > >(The one I just got from you for free :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-)  D I find it odd he's looking for any DS10L's, even if only the 617 MHzD version.  I figure if he's giving them away, he probably has about 5 warehouses full of 'em.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 10:54:05 -0700# From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? B Message-ID: <1160762045.283034.15130@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  4 Thanks All! and especially JF (very concise answer)!   RF     JF Mezei wrote:    >  > J > The use of extra characters like DELETEX is not an undocumented feature. > D > $EDIT :== "SPAWN/NOWAIT/INPUT=NLA0: EDIT/TPU/INTERFACE=DECWINDOWS" > ; > But if I need to use the FDL editor, all I need to do is:  >  > EDITX/FDL myfile.fld > F > The symbol parser uses the full words. So EDITX does not match EDIT.H > The command parser uses only first 4 characters, so EDITX matches EDIT > I > So, by adding a random letter after EDIT, I bypass my normal definition - > and use a different one for this time only.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 11:04:58 -0700# From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? C Message-ID: <1160762698.502020.308390@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Doug -   Not very helpful.   E I have been RTFM'n the VMS manuals lo these many years and this was a ) poser that I felt C.O.V. could help with.    RF     Doug Phillips wrote:   > G > The workings of the DCL command parser is very well documented, as is @ > the use of foreign command symbols. RTFM. Can you think of anyI > operating system that can't be exploited by a cleverly implemented (and D > privileged user installed) "trojan horse" disguised as a valid and- > innocent command (or icon, or application)?    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 11:12:39 -0700# From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? B Message-ID: <1160763159.479392.142370@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote:    ?  Why, it deflects DELETE's from your windshield! :-) Of course.      Or perhaps a Windoz$hield!    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 11:59:29 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? C Message-ID: <1160765969.771981.148890@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    RLFitch wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: > > I > > The workings of the DCL command parser is very well documented, as is B > > the use of foreign command symbols. RTFM. Can you think of anyK > > operating system that can't be exploited by a cleverly implemented (and F > > privileged user installed) "trojan horse" disguised as a valid and/ > > innocent command (or icon, or application)?  > >  > Doug - >  > Not very helpful.  > G > I have been RTFM'n the VMS manuals lo these many years and this was a + > poser that I felt C.O.V. could help with.  >  > RF >    Ransom,   E I, and others, have explained the workings of DELETEX. I apologize if F my reply that you quote seemed a bit harsh. I was addressing your "BUGA ... RIPE for exploitation" comment, which I felt was unwarranted.   C AFA the technical side of your question, other posts in this thread 0 provided explanation and documentation pointers:  $ Richard Brodie provided the link to:  >J <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_003.html#index_x_209>   I provided the link to:   K > <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_030.html#symbols_ch>   A And I further commented and quoted from those pages about command  interpretation:    > % > Symbol substitution is tried first.  > C > "If you define a symbol with the same name as a DCL command, your - > definition overrides the DCL command name."  > ! > If no matching symbol is found:  > ? > "DCL looks only at the first four characters for uniqueness."  > C > So, if DELETEX does not exactly match a symbol, only DELE will be # > examined and DELETE will execute.  > : > You could also enter DELEX to accomplish the same thing.  D I agree with you that the manuals should offer a specific example ofD this usage, but its workings are indeed documented and this is by noD means a "bug", nor does it lend itself to exploitation any more than/ similar features do on other operating systems.   G If you still have questions, please post them and I'm sure someone will  be able to answer them.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Oct 2006 12:48:39 -0700# From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? B Message-ID: <1160768918.982828.147910@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   > F > I agree with you that the manuals should offer a specific example ofF > this usage, but its workings are indeed documented and this is by noF > means a "bug", nor does it lend itself to exploitation any more than1 > similar features do on other operating systems.  >   F As a programmer, when having a user test a newly developed program andB the program did something unexpected, it was prudent to call it anE "undocumented feature" rather than call it a "bug".  Then go back and  fix it (or document it).  G >From some of the postings it seems that DELETEX is properly documented 0 if one digs deep enough as I apparently did not.   Ransom Fitch rlfitch.com    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.564 ************************