1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 14 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 565       Contents:+ Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"  Re: A service to hobbyists Re: A service to hobbyists Re: Bumper stickers for VMS P Re: Copying BACKUP saveset from tape to disk with /BLOCKSIZE > 32767 bytes bytes Re: Death of VMSF Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center!" Mailbox protection evaluation time Re: Opteron  Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: We BUY Alpha systems Re: We BUY Alpha systems Re: What is DELETEX?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:13:18 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> 4 Subject: Re: "VMS people can write their own ticket"0 Message-ID: <45310C9E.5E65EDC1@spam.comcast.net>   Dave Weatherall wrote: > 3 > On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:23:56 UTC, David J Dachtera % > <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote:  >  > <Snip> > S > > Myopia is a greater threat to the world and humankind than The Plague ever was. @ > > The "least common denominator" is, indeed, disturbingly low. > D > A nitpick, because I've only just realised why it bugged me when I > first read it. > F > There would be a major difference between _least_ common denominatorE > and _lowest_ common denominator. The latter being what I was taught H > when learning to fractions at school in Wales.  Was/Is it different in	 > the US?   @ In the US at least, "least" and "lowest" are roughly synonymous.  @ > One could argue that 'least common' is the opposite of what is* > intended as it implies 'most different'.  P Thus arises the ambiguity: when "least" is married to the word which immediatelyE follows it, thus creating a phrase the author/speaker did not intend: * "denominator" modified by "least common".   L The proper structure is the phrase "common denominator" modified by "least".   > Is this normal US usage?  ; Quite typical, yes. The propriety is, of course, debatable.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:18:26 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> # Subject: Re: A service to hobbyists 0 Message-ID: <45310DD2.323D2EF9@spam.comcast.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > . > On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 19:07:04 -0700, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > I > > If you're a hobbyist with a new alpha, and need to populate it with a F > > recent version of our favourite operating system, I may be able toJ > > informally help. I have an eight hundred thirty divided by one hundred > > image that you could FTP.  > > K > > Contact me privately at jfmezei::vaxination.ca to set things up even if : > > you have an aluminium baseball bat reserved to hit me. > * > Don't you mean eight hundred thirty two?  O I wasn't aware that there was a V8.3-2 already. I thought we were still at V8.3  + ECOs.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:29:20 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> # Subject: Re: A service to hobbyists 0 Message-ID: <45311E70.DECE520C@spam.comcast.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > G > If you're a hobbyist with a new alpha, and need to populate it with a D > recent version of our favourite operating system, I may be able toH > informally help. I have an eight hundred thirty divided by one hundred > image that you could FTP.  > I > Contact me privately at jfmezei::vaxination.ca to set things up even if 8 > you have an aluminium baseball bat reserved to hit me.  M Given the hounding you've taken, JF, I guess it's true that if adversity does ! not kill us it makes us stronger.   8 Hat's off. Hope you don't run afoul of the legal-eagles.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:07:51 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> $ Subject: Re: Bumper stickers for VMS0 Message-ID: <45311967.3A812444@spam.comcast.net>   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  >  > Hello H > Thanks for the offer. I already have that bumper sticker. My co-workerG > has agree to scan that bumper sticker and make the following stickers  > and buttons:( > OpenVMS When downtime is not an option! > OpenVMS Non-stop 24X7 computing B > He said he would also put the VMS shark on the stickers also. If > anybody has something 7 > else let me know. They should be available by Monday.   P Let me know what kind of quantities you can handle. I might explore distributing# these in bulk (100's of thousands).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:53:54 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: Copying BACKUP saveset from tape to disk with /BLOCKSIZE > 32767 bytes bytes 0 Message-ID: <45311622.B0431746@spam.comcast.net>   armistej wrote:  >  > Hi all > B > I have a number of old TK50 BACKUP tapes with savesets that haveF > /BLOCKSIZE set to 32768.  From memory this /BLOCKSIZE was arrived atF > based on some information contained in one of the VMS manuals (maybeG > something about BACKUP performance tuning or a System Managers manual  > from the VMS 5.x days) > E > I believe that this is larger than RMS can handled for disk files - H > I've seen plenty of postings in the archives which say disk files must) > have MRS and LRL less than 32767 bytes.  > D > I get the dreaded the "%RMS-F-RSZ, invalid record size" error if IA > simply use COPY to try and move the savesets from tape to disk.  > I > Any ideas how to recover these savesets from tape and save them to disk G > while still keeping RMS happy and being able to use BACKUP if needed.  > I > I am actually trying to move a stack of savesets from old TK50s to CD-R D > or DVD-R media to reduce the bulk of tapes stored in our archives. > D > Maybe someone has a nice DCL command procedure that uses BACKUP toF > restore the savesets on a tape one by one to a scratch area on disk,G > then use a second BACKUP session to rewrite a new saveset of the data / > to disk with a more RMS-friendly record size.  > E > I realise I may want to still capture the header of the BACKUP/LIST B > results for each save set to get a true historical record of the" > original backup saveset origins.  P A few Questions... I don't have a VAX system running right now, so I can't checkO this out locally, and I'm going to make a the brash assumption that more recent ) BACKUP on Alpha might behave differently.   N Have you actually tried BACKUP/LIST of the tape savesets to display the headerK information? Does the /BLOCKSIZE actually show as 32768, or the more common 9 32256 (even when 32768 is specified on the command line)?   H Have you tried MOUNTing the tape drive using a /BLOCKSIZE other than the	 default?     --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:57:56 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Death of VMS 0 Message-ID: <45311714.4321B987@spam.comcast.net>   Duncan Macdonald wrote:  > H > I have been a DECUS member since the PDP-11 days before the first VAX.M > Unfortunately the recent HP moves to get rid of a lot of the VMS developers  > and G > good support staff seem to me to be the final nail in the VMS coffin.  > F > The first (and possibly most important) nail was Dave Cutler joiningL > Microsoft - this was not so much because of the loss to DEC but because heM > enabled Microsoft to get NT working about a year earlier that it would have  > been.  > G > The second nail was the replacement of technical management at DEC by  > non-technical management.  > K > There have been many more nails following from the above of which the two  > most important were the death G > of the Alpha and the decision to go to the Itanium instead of the x86 	 > family.  > L > From a personal point of view this has made my 25+ years of DEC experience3 > worth less than 2 years experience as an XP admin  >  > R.I.P.   VMS  M Likewise, I am a long-time VMS professional who finds the value of his skills 3 greatly eroded by the actions of VMS's proprietors.   = However, "VMS is dead" is still pre-mature, in my estimation.   L I would go along with "VMS is in very extremely grave, mortal peril" at this6 point. Think of Harry Potter dueling with Voldemort...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:47:45 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> O Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! 0 Message-ID: <453114B1.5DAFBA8D@spam.comcast.net>   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Ian Miller wrote:  > > JF Mezei wrote:  > > H > >>And while Bruden and Parsec may be good, are they worldwide and 7/24
 > >>support ?  > >> > >  > > 2 > > I see that BRUDEN OSSG advertise 24x7 support. > > http://www.brudenossg.com/ > >  > > and so do PARSEC- > > http://www.parsec.com/openvms/support.php  > / > (Excuse the plug ... I work for this company)  > * > As does Trinity Expert Systems in the UK8 > http://www.tesl.com/MVS/Multi-vendor+services+home.htm  
 So, question:   P Suppose Bruden, Parsec, TES, (the corporate parent of) Process, TDI, SP/32, etc.P were to combine their financial resources. Assuming such level of cooperation isM attainable, would the resultant partnership have the financial wherewithal to O wrest OpenVMS away from HP (and buy openvms.com from someone I know personally) % and finally let it be what it CAN be?    Consider...   G MAC/OS-X is similar to *BSD in that the o.s. kernel and the GUI are not 2 intertwined as they are in the current WhineBloze.  ; Ditto for Linux and the other similar and UN*X-derivatives.    Ditto for OpenVMS.  N Seen anything about "Longhorn"? Word is that the GUI has been moved out of the7 kernel leaving only M$'s (lack of) security underneath.   L This "levels the playing field" in a way not seen since the days of M$-DOS + Win/3x.   P An excellent time for an OpenVMS consortium to bring service/support levels backO up to par and provide an OpenVMS-based Exchange replacement in a world starving  for security and uptime.   My $0.02...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:43:03 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> + Subject: Mailbox protection evaluation time 1 Message-ID: <egqi9a$jgh$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   K You may recall that, a few weeks back, I was asking questions about mailbox H protection related issues with inner-mode code and why sometimes my (nonG system) EXEC mode code had to "up" privs with SYSPRV and other times it K didn't, when doing i/o to a mailbox that had (s:rwlp,o,g,w). At that time I L was unable to find anyone who had a clue about what they were talking about,L so I've finally got around to investigating what was going on and this is myJ best guess. (If there is anyone in this newsgroup that can tell their arseJ from their elbow when it comes to VMS device security checking then please4 chime in will any facts relevant to correct coding.)  I Maybe it's in the fine manuals? I couldn't find it. If you have a pointer E please pass it on. If not, I sure hope this helps someone else in the  future.   K 1) Anyone can assign a channel to a mailbox even if they have absolutely no 2 privileges and no SOGW or ACL access to the deviceD 2) Access rights tests are deferred till $QIO time and ganularity is dependant on the function codeL 3) Access is only checked the first time for each appropriate function codesI (A record of the checks already made is in kept in the ccb$l_sts field of H the Channel Connect Block. ccb$v_readchkdon, writechkdon, logchkdon etc)  F If this is true then that would certainly explain why I had to $setprvI (sysprv) before the initial io$_writevblk or io$_setmode but subsequently B everything was peachy.  I assume the check is only done once as anK optimization, but then surely it would also make sense to have some sort of I io$_accesscheck so that the programmer could get all his checking done up G front at initialization time and not have to have a $setprv in his main  routine or in a loop?   K I can understand why these checks can't be done at $assign time as there is L just not enough infomation there to describe everything that you may wish toJ do on a channel in the future, but one thing *is* known and that is if youL don'y have "L" access to a mailbox then you can't do *anything* with it, andK SYS$ASSIGN (or EXE$CHKPRO_INT or whatever) should *not* assign a channel to $ that device. It is just plain wrong!  E What if I have a io$_setmode!io$m_waitforreader on a mailbox that has K (S:RWLP,O,W,G) protection and some idiot comes up and does a $OPEN/READ DOS J _MBA123: Does my code fire up and say "Bewdy! Our partner's there now" andL not some snotty nosed hacker? What if I rely on my temporary mailboxes dyingJ after all *my* channels are deassigned only to find that a third party hasK assigned a channel to it and is keeping it alive? They don't have access to I my Logical Name tables but they are sure as hell stopping my $CREMBX from 7 creating a *new* mailbox and changing the logical name!   E BTW. Why does RMS give you a NOPRIV error when you close the channel?   F Did everyone else know that changing the protection on a mailbox afterL channels have been assigned may or may not have the desired results? Say youG wanted to limit writers to only SYSTEM users for a while; if a WORLD or K GROUP user already done i/o on there channel they'd never see the change in  protection.   K Anyway, in my case, I couldn't see how to *automatically (without $setprv)* H take advantage of being in Exec-Mode on an Exec-Mode channel. I can makeH sense that you still want the checks performed. (There is a io$m_trustedJ modifier that can be used to avoid the probes if your using Exec-Mode iosbH memory etc) And my channel *is* protected against User-Mode interference which is the whole point.    Regards Richard Maher    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:05:34 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Opteron0 Message-ID: <453118DE.825E19C4@spam.comcast.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >  > Neil Rieck wrote: 9 > > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote in message ' > > news:op.tg9vxilztte90l@hyrrokkin... D > >> Might be a good time for VMS Engineering to feed any additional > >> requirements to AMD > P >    As for HP's OpenVMS and HP-UX product lines and plans, Intel Itanium is theP > processor and HP Integrity is the platform.   Itanium is supported for OpenVMS? > I64 and for HP-UX, it works, and Integrity servers available.  > Q >    Comparable Integrity system configuration prices are rather lower than those ) > of an equivalent Alpha system, as well.  > H >    And for completeness, I know of no plans to port OpenVMS to x86-64.  ( Ah, yes. They're still deep in denial...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:03:25 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: Reading 100 magnetic tapes 0 Message-ID: <4531185D.D83AA02D@spam.comcast.net>   apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:  >  > Ian Miller wrote: 5 > > I would use BACKUP /VERIFY when reading the tape. " > > How old and what sort of tape? > = > They are old tapes (tapes with tape seal) and 15 years old.   N O.k. That implies 10-1/2 inch open-reel tapes. At the highest density I recall2 these should have a capacity of about 160MB each.   K Assuming you can read them all and overcome all the errors you're likely to L encounter, the resulting data should all fit on one DVD-R in either ODS-2 or+ ODS-5 format. ODS-2 should do it, I think.    G Depending on the comrpessability of the data, it might even ZIP down to # something that would fit on a CD-R.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:30:30 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX 0 Message-ID: <453110A6.227077CF@spam.comcast.net>   Rohan wrote: > % > Does Linux perform better than VMS?  > C > What are advantages/disadvantages of having VMS or Linux over one 
 > another?  M Well, aside from the ensuing "religious war" which tyically results from such 9 questions, my first answer would likely be, "it depends".   ? What are your priorities and which environment best suits them?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:22:12 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: Re: We BUY Alpha systems ' Message-ID: <op.the0vazdzgicya@murphus>   5 On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:13:55 -0700, Michael Moroney   ( <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:  1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > ( >> "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote:$ >>> Alphaserver DS10L 617Mhz Systems >  > , >> How much would you give for for a DS10L ? > @ >> (The one I just got from you for free :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) > F > I find it odd he's looking for any DS10L's, even if only the 617 MHzF > version.  I figure if he's giving them away, he probably has about 5 > warehouses full of 'em.    Shouldn't that be 667?   --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:37:18 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ! Subject: Re: We BUY Alpha systems J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-08F171.16371814102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  F In article <op.the0vazdzgicya@murphus>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  wrote:  7 > On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:13:55 -0700, Michael Moroney   * > <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote: > 3 > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > > * > >> "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote:& > >>> Alphaserver DS10L 617Mhz Systems > >  > > . > >> How much would you give for for a DS10L ? > > B > >> (The one I just got from you for free :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) > > H > > I find it odd he's looking for any DS10L's, even if only the 617 MHzH > > version.  I figure if he's giving them away, he probably has about 5 > > warehouses full of 'em.  >  > Shouldn't that be 667?  = David quoted 617 above. But to quote from his last "lottery":    "We're doing it again!    B 1 x DS10L is being given away at 5:00pm EST on Friday 6th October    Configured as follows:     DS10L 466Mhz EV6 machine ..."   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:25:32 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>  Subject: Re: What is DELETEX? / Message-ID: <45310F7C.8A155DB@spam.comcast.net>    RLFitch wrote: > E > Ran into this command (DELETEX) and not sure how it is defined.  Is > > this the same as DELETE?  Is this an "undocumented command"?   Undocumented? I guess so.    Command? Eh, not really.  N As others have explained quite well, DCL looks for symbols set up as "foreign"I commands (which *ARE* documented). "DELETEX" makes a distinction between    " $ DEL*ETE :== DELETE/NOCONFIRM/LOG  K ...and the unmodified DELETE verb. Then, as others have also mentioned, DCL I looks only at the first four characters of the "disambiguated" "verb" and < arrives at the provided DELE[ETE] verb in the command table.  K So, yes, it is a "feature", and is about as undocumented as this technique:    $ cntr = cntr + 1  $ symb := mysymb_'cntr'  $ &symb = value   M ...which I have documented in my DCL Programming presentations at the (DECUS) 	 Symposia.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.565 ************************