1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 17 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 571       Contents: Re: Death of VMS Re: Death of VMS Re: DS10L to a good home...  Re: DS10L to a good home... 4 Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ?8 Re: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ?8 Re: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ? Netiquette faux pas  Re: Netiquette faux pas  ODS LEVEL 5 and Pathwork v6.1  Outsourcing of VMS Re: Outsourcing of VMS Re: Outsourcing of VMS Re: Outsourcing of VMS Re: Outsourcing of VMS Re: Outsourcing of VMS Re: Outsourcing of VMS; proxied X server to maintain session over network failure ?  Re: Question about terminals Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Request for kit  Re: Request for kit 0 Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside0 Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside0 Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside0 Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside0 Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside  Re: VAX 6000 still doesn't start Re: Virtual VMS 3 VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows & Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX& Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX& Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMS VS LINUX Re: VMSMail question- Weird BIND Server behaviour (reverse lookups)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 06:10:44 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com  Subject: Re: Death of VMS B Message-ID: <1161090644.878024.78900@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   Duncan Macdonald wrote: K > The NT family worked well enough for many users and it cost far less than  > VMS.  D that is false ... we have been on vms since 1987 ... want to compare cost? of ownership?  I guarantee you we would smash NT hands down ...   G the licenses transferred at a discount from vax to alpha and eventually F to itanium ... we have never had a virus or hack with over seven yearsE on the web and mail ... and we never go down except for an occasional  patch reboot after hours ...  A vms costs on itanium are much lower than in the past and once you H factor in security and reliability and uptime NT still gets trounced ...   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 08:10:15 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com>  Subject: Re: Death of VMS C Message-ID: <1161097815.778927.225150@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Antoniov wrote:  > David J Dachtera wrote: Q > > Likewise, I am a long-time VMS professional who finds the value of his skills 7 > > greatly eroded by the actions of VMS's proprietors. I > Me too. This year my revenue from Windows Platform will be greater than ? > VMS platform. It's the first time since I've known VMS. Sigh!  > > A > > However, "VMS is dead" is still pre-mature, in my estimation.  > > P > > I would go along with "VMS is in very extremely grave, mortal peril" at this: > > point. Think of Harry Potter dueling with Voldemort... > >  > I strongly agree. E > However I can't understand where VMS is going to. I wonder if HP-UX G > affinity program means Death on Arrival by VMS. Why someone would buy G > VMS with some HP-UX application instead of buying HP-UX directly? And F > then, if someone buys an Integrity server with OpenVMS, it can't useH > VMS as file server (Samba is just a beta release)! So it must also buy2 > a Windows 2003 server or a Unix/Linux server!!!!I > In my mind VMS needs a user-friendly interface, like Windows 2003, with I > a real RDP server inside. Then any customer can choice between a robust * > VMS server o a weak Windows 2003 server.  D Not entirely sure why you would want RDP support inside OpenVMS, butG you can skin OpenVMS now with something like Tarentella to get the same  effect as RDP.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  > 
 > My 2 cents. 	 > Antonio  > http://it.openvms.org    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 03:31:34 -0700# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> $ Subject: Re: DS10L to a good home...C Message-ID: <1161081094.696151.298220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hal,  E If you still have these systems available I'd love to get my hands on G one. I am in Northern Virginia (work in Chantilly) but would be glad to : drive as far as Baltimore if that should be where you are.   Galen   < On Oct 15, 10:35 am, "Hal Kuff" <HalK...@Verizon.Net> wrote:K > We have two DS10L systems that work but are no longer practical for us... K > free to a good hopefully local home.... in the baltimore/washington area, H > drop me a note kuff at tessco dot com ... openvms hobbyist only please   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:50:13 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> $ Subject: Re: DS10L to a good home...: Message-ID: <WKWdnbZXG4cNTKnYnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Galen wrote:   > Hal, > G > If you still have these systems available I'd love to get my hands on I > one. I am in Northern Virginia (work in Chantilly) but would be glad to < > drive as far as Baltimore if that should be where you are.  @ He's in Hunt Valley, MD. It's about 30 miles north of Baltimore.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 03:45:13 -0700/ From: "Shahin Yaz" <Shahinyaz@blueyonder.co.uk> = Subject: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ? B Message-ID: <1161081913.547743.17140@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  E Can a Lantronix Terminal Server be used instead of a Descerver 900 to C provide remote console mgmt for a Alpha 4100 VMS 7.1-2 system ?  It E also needs to have flash load memory, as I understand. Does Lantronix D support Dec Alphas and would it take the same effort to configure as the Descerver ?  Thanks in advance    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:30:32 -0500 " From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com>A Subject: Re: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ? ) Message-ID: <eh2pe9$563$1@sxnews1.qg.com>    Shahin Yaz wrote: G > Can a Lantronix Terminal Server be used instead of a Descerver 900 to E > provide remote console mgmt for a Alpha 4100 VMS 7.1-2 system ?  It G > also needs to have flash load memory, as I understand. Does Lantronix F > support Dec Alphas and would it take the same effort to configure as > the Descerver ?  > Thanks in advance   L FWIW, we use Lantronix terminal servers here with VAXen and Alphas, network  gear, SANs, etc.  K The only real issue it getting the pinouts correct. I don't know the exact  M pinouts, however, I do know that the Lantronix uses dofferent grounding pins   than our DS700s.   AJ     ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:43:14 -0700/ From: "Shahin Yaz" <Shahinyaz@blueyonder.co.uk> A Subject: Re: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ? B Message-ID: <1161096193.952426.209540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Schroeder, AJ wrote: > Shahin Yaz wrote: I > > Can a Lantronix Terminal Server be used instead of a Descerver 900 to G > > provide remote console mgmt for a Alpha 4100 VMS 7.1-2 system ?  It I > > also needs to have flash load memory, as I understand. Does Lantronix H > > support Dec Alphas and would it take the same effort to configure as > > the Descerver ?  > > Thanks in advance  > M > FWIW, we use Lantronix terminal servers here with VAXen and Alphas, network  > gear, SANs, etc. > L > The only real issue it getting the pinouts correct. I don't know the exactN > pinouts, however, I do know that the Lantronix uses dofferent grounding pins > than our DS700s. >  > AJ   Thanks very much for your help,  Shahin   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:29:34 -0700  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> Subject: Netiquette faux pasB Message-ID: <1161095374.315064.64060@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   Hi guys,  D I jumped on the middle of the newsgroup and started begging before I' even took the time to introduce myself.   G I am Mike Poole, I work for a mid-size publishing company in Champaign, < IL.  We run 7-3_2 on a DS10 for our main financial software.  A Except for VMS/VAX back in the 80's in college, I didn't have any / experience when I came to work here a year ago.   * Needless to say I have become a VMS Bigot.  F I also wanted to thank David Turner who has helped a lot over the lastA year explaining VMS and Alpha stuff for me even though my company  hasn't given him money yet.   F Anyway, a couple guys said I should introduce myself and I am happy to. share whatever I can with anyone who needs it.   Thanks,  Mike   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 10:26:39 -0700 From: sean@obanion.us   Subject: Re: Netiquette faux pasC Message-ID: <1161105998.966344.145170@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Mike,    Welcome!  E Hopefully you've also been to to other sites like OPENVMS.ORG and the ' user group's web site, ENCOMPASSUS.ORG.   G Also, getting to the HP Tech Forum and/or the OpenVMS Bootcamp can be a  great help.      Sean   Mike wrote: 
 > Hi guys, > F > I jumped on the middle of the newsgroup and started begging before I) > even took the time to introduce myself.  > I > I am Mike Poole, I work for a mid-size publishing company in Champaign, > > IL.  We run 7-3_2 on a DS10 for our main financial software. > C > Except for VMS/VAX back in the 80's in college, I didn't have any 1 > experience when I came to work here a year ago.  > , > Needless to say I have become a VMS Bigot. > H > I also wanted to thank David Turner who has helped a lot over the lastC > year explaining VMS and Alpha stuff for me even though my company  > hasn't given him money yet.  > H > Anyway, a couple guys said I should introduce myself and I am happy to0 > share whatever I can with anyone who needs it. > 	 > Thanks,  > Mike   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 06:07:29 -0700- From: "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> & Subject: ODS LEVEL 5 and Pathwork v6.1B Message-ID: <1161090449.291271.158310@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  / Using Pathworks V6.1 with a ods-5 enabled disk. # If i create a directory like this:-    $ set def disk$test:[test]
 $ creatre/dir D [.AVERYLONGDIRECTORYNAMEWHICHHASNOTHINGTODOWITHANYTHINGINPARTICULAR]  = and try and view the share from my Windows PC I can't see it.   3 That maxium number of letters still is format 39:39 D                                                                    |F 123456789012345678901234567890123456789.012345678901234567890__2EWRI;1  
 Any ideas? MB   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:56:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Outsourcing of VMS , Message-ID: <45348C98.1D2BD160@teksavvy.com>  > It has often been asked whether HP might consider selling VMS.  G But what about outsourcing it ? HP would then retain the rights and the G control of it. It could outsource its development (and the company(ies) F that get contract could then hire expereinced VMS engineers). It could@ outsource its support to companies such as Bruden, Parsec etc.    ? It would then bill/milk customers, and still have a say on what F platforms VMS runs on and ensure that VMS does not compete against HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 06:20:02 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS ; Message-ID: <4534ae0a$0$5903$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:45348C98.1D2BD160@teksavvy.com...@ > It has often been asked whether HP might consider selling VMS. > I > But what about outsourcing it ? HP would then retain the rights and the I > control of it. It could outsource its development (and the company(ies) H > that get contract could then hire expereinced VMS engineers). It could@ > outsource its support to companies such as Bruden, Parsec etc. > A > It would then bill/milk customers, and still have a say on what H > platforms VMS runs on and ensure that VMS does not compete against HP.  K I'm sure I'm not the only one currently wondering if HP execs have plans to L slowly kill off OpenVMS. (this statement is based upon their latest actions:L dumping OpenVMS support to India. However, this action will also enable moreI companies to provide third party support which sounds very similar to all 5 the companies supporting different flavours of LINUX)   L If they are intent upon killing off the OS, then putting OpenVMS source codeK into the public domain is better than destroying it. While it may no longer G be commercially feasible to have 100 paid engineers do a platform port, L having 1000 people doing it for free might be an alternative. I'm not sayingG this port would be painless, but at least OpenVMS would eventually find & itself living on another architecture.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 08:18:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS 3 Message-ID: <jvXQp42M9Tsl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <4534ae0a$0$5903$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  > M > I'm sure I'm not the only one currently wondering if HP execs have plans to N > slowly kill off OpenVMS. (this statement is based upon their latest actions:N > dumping OpenVMS support to India. However, this action will also enable moreK > companies to provide third party support which sounds very similar to all 7 > the companies supporting different flavours of LINUX)   C    Since HP seems intent on moving most of its support to India, it D    would appear that they intend to support VMS just as well as theyC    will support HP-UX et. al.  The move may be a bad thing, but the     equal treatment is not.        ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:35:26 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS + Message-ID: <4pk4guFjacd5U1@individual.net>   3 In article <jvXQp42M9Tsl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:i > In article <4534ae0a$0$5903$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >>  N >> I'm sure I'm not the only one currently wondering if HP execs have plans toO >> slowly kill off OpenVMS. (this statement is based upon their latest actions: O >> dumping OpenVMS support to India. However, this action will also enable more L >> companies to provide third party support which sounds very similar to all8 >> the companies supporting different flavours of LINUX) > E >    Since HP seems intent on moving most of its support to India, it F >    would appear that they intend to support VMS just as well as theyE >    will support HP-UX et. al.  The move may be a bad thing, but the  >    equal treatment is not.  G This is only true if you are assuming that competent VMS support people - are as easy to find as competent Unix people.    bill        --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:31:46 -0700) From: "DaveG" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>  Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS B Message-ID: <1161095506.070357.78010@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <jvXQp42M9Tsl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:k > > In article <4534ae0a$0$5903$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  > >>P > >> I'm sure I'm not the only one currently wondering if HP execs have plans toQ > >> slowly kill off OpenVMS. (this statement is based upon their latest actions: Q > >> dumping OpenVMS support to India. However, this action will also enable more N > >> companies to provide third party support which sounds very similar to all: > >> the companies supporting different flavours of LINUX) > > G > >    Since HP seems intent on moving most of its support to India, it H > >    would appear that they intend to support VMS just as well as theyG > >    will support HP-UX et. al.  The move may be a bad thing, but the  > >    equal treatment is not. > I > This is only true if you are assuming that competent VMS support people / > are as easy to find as competent Unix people.  >  > bill >   C It is my understaning that all Level 1 support has been off-shored. 9 This is not a VMS only issue as some have suggested here.   F I also understand that the VMS SIG and Encompass are currently looking into this situation.   Dave...    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:15:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS + Message-ID: <4pkad6Fibi3mU1@individual.net>   B In article <1161095506.070357.78010@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,, 	"DaveG" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:6 >> In article <jvXQp42M9Tsl@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: l >> > In article <4534ae0a$0$5903$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >> >> Q >> >> I'm sure I'm not the only one currently wondering if HP execs have plans to R >> >> slowly kill off OpenVMS. (this statement is based upon their latest actions:R >> >> dumping OpenVMS support to India. However, this action will also enable moreO >> >> companies to provide third party support which sounds very similar to all ; >> >> the companies supporting different flavours of LINUX)  >> >H >> >    Since HP seems intent on moving most of its support to India, itI >> >    would appear that they intend to support VMS just as well as they H >> >    will support HP-UX et. al.  The move may be a bad thing, but the >> >    equal treatment is not.  >>J >> This is only true if you are assuming that competent VMS support people0 >> are as easy to find as competent Unix people. >> >> bill  >> > E > It is my understaning that all Level 1 support has been off-shored. ; > This is not a VMS only issue as some have suggested here.   C But it is more of a VMS issue based on the fact that competent Unix D people are much easier to find than competent VMS people. That meansD people calling with an HP-UX problem are going to get better service' than people calling with a VMS problem.    > H > I also understand that the VMS SIG and Encompass are currently looking > into this situation.  H Something about horses and barndoors comes to mind.  People like Guy andI Hoff are gone.  If it is decided that a mistake was made, who do you hire 4 to replace them?  (Rhetorical question, you can't!!)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:42:40 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>  Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS 3 Message-ID: <1161100057_42665@sp6iad.superfeed.net>    JF Mezei wrote: @ > It has often been asked whether HP might consider selling VMS. > I > But what about outsourcing it ? HP would then retain the rights and the I > control of it. It could outsource its development (and the company(ies) H > that get contract could then hire expereinced VMS engineers). It couldB > outsource its support to companies such as Bruden, Parsec etc.    & You mean like the way Unix was handled" (ATT->SCO->Novell->Caldara(SCO2)).' Obviously no chance of becomming messy.   A > It would then bill/milk customers, and still have a say on what H > platforms VMS runs on and ensure that VMS does not compete against HP.  Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 05:08:55 -0700% From: "Pierre" <pierre.bru@gmail.com> D Subject: proxied X server to maintain session over network failure ?B Message-ID: <1161086935.481918.60070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   hi,    the usual X11 connection is:  + | X-client-app |<-- network -->| X-server |   E but if the server crashes or the nework breaks dows, all X client app E stops and active sessions are lost. what I'm looking for is some kind H od proxy-server (=E0 la DXPC) that would run either on the same computerF as the client or on another machine and that would keep the "sessions"9 active i case of communication problem with the X server.   E | X-client-app <--> remote-proxy | <-- network --> | local-proxy <--> 
 X-server |  D if the X-server or the local-proxy craches, or if the network fails,= the user re-run the local-proxy + X-server and re-establish a E connection with the remote-proxy, bringing back his actives sessions.   ( is there something like that out there ?   TIA, Pierre.   : PS. yes, this is definitely inspired by M$ terminal server functionality...   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:14:21 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)% Subject: Re: Question about terminals ) Message-ID: <eh2kvd$qnv$1@news.BelWue.DE>   o In article <12j9leam50o69a4@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: B >We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal >interfaces - 15" probably > - >Does anyone think this might be of interest?  > C >What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2 ' >interface, VGA style interface and DB9 D >The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc.K >We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully  > $ >Do people use dumb terminals still?L >If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other >brands?  O We have one Terminal running as a console for our cluster. An other one is used M for the initial setup of some arbitrary equipment. It is always easer to hook N up a real terminal instead of some emulation togethe with a bunch of adapters.? I would love to replace these old terminals with LCD terminals.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:08:23 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Question about terminals 0 Message-ID: <12j9leam50o69a4@news.supernews.com>  A We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  interfaces - 15" probably   , Does anyone think this might be of interest?  B What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2& interface, VGA style interface and DB9C The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. J We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully  # Do people use dumb terminals still? K If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other  brands?        --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 06:36:08 -0700  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com>% Subject: Re: Question about terminals C Message-ID: <1161092168.114450.301560@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David,  9 We are using a KVM switch, so essentially the same thing.   F I think this would be a fantastic idea, especially in a server room or a hobbyist basement.  ; We used something similar called "Paragon" at a former job.     # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?  >  >  >  > -- >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@islandco.com > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:24:57 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>% Subject: Re: Question about terminals ) Message-ID: <op.thkkzvfxtte90l@hyrrokkin>   B On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 06:08:23 -0700, Island Computers, D B Turner   <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:  C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. H > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported   > fully  > % > Do people use dumb terminals still?     My dumb terminal is called PuTTY  I > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and    > other 	 > brands?  >  >  >        --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:35:02 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>% Subject: Re: Question about terminals B Message-ID: <1161095702.732963.188390@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?  >  >  >  > -- >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@islandco.com > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   B At last count we have 24 terminals still in use at customer sites.C Mostly VT420/VT510, with one VT525 (nice because it uses flat panel G VGA).  Nine are consoles on various customer systems, the rest are data A entry where PCs just aren't the best solution.  Most of the other B general purpose users switched to PCs with powerterm, whether they needed them or not.   3 We have a couple of VT420s and one VT510 as spares.   E To be honest it depends on the cost of your box whether it would have C any chance with our customers, but I also like the sound of one for 	 home use.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:31:53 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-24F30F.16315317102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  0 In article <12j9leam50o69a4@news.supernews.com>,>  "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:  C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?   G Can you still get VT520s or similar? Going back to manufacturing days,  F we wanted terminals "as dumb as possible" for the production lines to F minimize tampering. The Setup key was physically disabled for example.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:02:48 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>% Subject: Re: Question about terminals % Message-ID: <1161100816.336835@smirk>   # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest?  % > Do people use dumb terminals still?   E You bet we do!   My #1 client currently has roughly 20 DEC-compatible A terminals in use.   They are split about 50/50 between VT-5xx and @ Microterm VT emulators.   They are the preferred solution on theB factory floor where access to a single application is all we want.A A big problem is finding replacements when they die (about one or  two per year).  < The last time I was in an Ikea store, they has VT-compatible> terminals everywhere, obviously attached to a VMS system.   My= casual attempts to get to a DCL prompt failed, however.   :-)   C > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems   > and other brands?  C They are all on Alpha systems.   We have a mix of DECserver 700 and A Emulex P4000 terminal servers.   Our biggest problem with them is B the DECserver 700s that are in a non-air conditioned rack in a hotA area of the factory.   We lose about two power supplies per year, ( usually due to the fan bearings failing.   Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 08:59:37 -0700) From: "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals C Message-ID: <1161100777.758227.256250@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?  >  >  >  > -- >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@islandco.com > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   
 Hi, David.  ) Unless I misinterpret what you're saying, ? what you're talking about is called a "thin client", I believe.   ! Doesn't Boundless still make VTs?    WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 09:01:57 -0700) From: "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals C Message-ID: <1161100917.786799.242580@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Paul Sture wrote: 2 > In article <12j9leam50o69a4@news.supernews.com>,@ >  "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote: > E > > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > > interfaces - 15" probably  > > 0 > > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > > F > > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2* > > interface, VGA style interface and DB9G > > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. N > > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > > ' > > Do people use dumb terminals still? O > > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other  > > brands?  > H > Can you still get VT520s or similar? Going back to manufacturing days,G > we wanted terminals "as dumb as possible" for the production lines to H > minimize tampering. The Setup key was physically disabled for example. >  > -- > Paul Sture  A You didn't tell us how the "dumber users" resulting from this got 
 around it.  
      : - )   WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:30 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>% Subject: Re: Question about terminals 0 Message-ID: <12ja1f1d1f9es83@news.supernews.com>   Thin clients have intelligenceL I am not talking about network ports or anything like that to enable a mouse also  I It would be a purely text based (just like a VT220) idea - a little black H box with PS2 for Keyboard, VGA Out and DB9 IN/OUT and of course a little black power supply  L The LCD would function just like a simple VT510 or similar and would also be capable of basic modem control  J We are talking to a couple of chinese companies, though I would rather use7 an American company to finsh development and prototype.   K If anyone here knows of companies here that offer the services I would love  to hear from you   David        --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   4 "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> wrote in message= news:1161100777.758227.256250@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  > % > Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: E > > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > > interfaces - 15" probably  > > 0 > > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > > F > > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2* > > interface, VGA style interface and DB9G > > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. H > > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully  > > ' > > Do people use dumb terminals still? I > > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and  other  > > brands?  > >  > >  > >  > > -- > >  > > David B Turner > > Island Computers US Corp > > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > > Savannah GA 31404  > > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > > Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  > > Fax: 912 201 0402   > > Email: dbturner@islandco.com  > > Web: http://www.islandco.com) > > ===================================== @ > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions2 > > of sale. These should be read before ordering.) > > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html  >  > Hi, David. > + > Unless I misinterpret what you're saying, A > what you're talking about is called a "thin client", I believe.  > # > Doesn't Boundless still make VTs?  >  > WWWebb >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 10:30:16 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com % Subject: Re: Question about terminals B Message-ID: <1161106216.143499.279780@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > & > Can you still get VT520s or similar?  ; sure can!  Boundless still manufacturers VT510s, VT520s and < VT525s along with LK411-412 keyboards and sells thru various
 resellers ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:15:50 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-84A876.19155017102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1161100917.786799.242580@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, +  "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> wrote:    > Paul Sture wrote: 4 > > In article <12j9leam50o69a4@news.supernews.com>,B > >  "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote: > > G > > > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > > > interfaces - 15" probably  > > > 2 > > > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > > > H > > > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2, > > > interface, VGA style interface and DB9I > > > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. K > > > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported   > > > fully  > > > ) > > > Do people use dumb terminals still? L > > > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and  > > > other 
 > > > brands?  > > J > > Can you still get VT520s or similar? Going back to manufacturing days,I > > we wanted terminals "as dumb as possible" for the production lines to J > > minimize tampering. The Setup key was physically disabled for example. > >  > > -- > > Paul Sture > C > You didn't tell us how the "dumber users" resulting from this got  > around it. >  >      : - )  F They certainly entered a lot of foul language at the username prompt. ; They didn't know that we could see that if we wanted to :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:34:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Request for kit, Message-ID: <45348779.EF744342@teksavvy.com>   Cluster-Karl wrote:  > C > DCPS V2.5 (Alpha) 1st occurrence was on the December 2005 CD set.     C It is also on the latest 8.3 distribution, although the 2.5 release : notes do not mention 8.3 as a valid version to run it on !   For alpha:  6.2 - 7.3-2 - 8.2  For VAX:    5.5-2 - 6.2 - 7.3     E I find it fascinating that the DCPS folsk have kept up development on E VAX to a point where they see the money in even supporting 5.5-2.   I @ guess that if some old 5.5-2 VAX uses HP toner cartridges in itsJ printers, HP sees a justification to continue to develop DCPS for VAX !!!!    B To the original poster: if you have not had an offer for alpha 2.5 contact me privately at " 			jfmezei at vaxination period ca   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:24:20 -0700  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Request for kitC Message-ID: <1161095060.391261.163130@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi guys,  A A couple of you came to my rescue and DCPS is now up and running!    Thank you so much!   Mike JF Mezei wrote:  > Cluster-Karl wrote:  > > E > > DCPS V2.5 (Alpha) 1st occurrence was on the December 2005 CD set.  >  > E > It is also on the latest 8.3 distribution, although the 2.5 release < > notes do not mention 8.3 as a valid version to run it on ! >  > For alpha:  6.2 - 7.3-2 - 8.2  > For VAX:    5.5-2 - 6.2 - 7.3  >  > G > I find it fascinating that the DCPS folsk have kept up development on G > VAX to a point where they see the money in even supporting 5.5-2.   I B > guess that if some old 5.5-2 VAX uses HP toner cartridges in itsL > printers, HP sees a justification to continue to develop DCPS for VAX !!!! >  > D > To the original poster: if you have not had an offer for alpha 2.5 > contact me privately at $ > 			jfmezei at vaxination period ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:08:04 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> 9 Subject: Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside 5 Message-ID: <slrnej8sq4.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   h In article <1161064243.604009.87960@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, armistej <JArmistead@mail.com> wrote: > F > After checking the Google archives, it seems like a regular questionF > about TZ30s (the SCSI version of the TK50). How to stop the 3 lights > flashing and unload a tape.  > 
 > Any ideas ?   H Motor failure? Capstan failure? Common issue with some of the older tapeC drives now, though I'm not familiar with the TZ30 and its quirks or  common issues, specifically.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:18:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside , Message-ID: <453475BB.1511C646@teksavvy.com>   armistej wrote: I > I can't get the tape out, and pressing the Unload buttons several times I > gets a flashing activity light followed by all 3 lights flashing again. H >  With the lid off the storage cabinet, I can see that it tries to moveH > the tape, but it doesn't do anything more than tension it slightly and > then release again.     B what does SHOW DEV MUA0:/FULL reveal ? Does VMS still thinks it is	 mounted ?   D You might try to $MOUNT MUA0: label  and then $DISMOUNT/UNLOAD mua0:    E Another thing you can do (not for faint of heart) is to pull the TK50 G out and gently pull the power plug out of the unit. Wait a few seconds, H and then plug it back in.  The unit should then reset itself.  (or to be# safe, power down the whole system).   G If all else fails, you can activate the latch on the side to unlock the B "cartridge eject" handle, and pull the cartridge out. (You need toD partially pull the tape drive out of the cabinet for that).  You canG then pull the tape out by hand into the real world equivalent of NLA0:. H After you are done, you will need to manually set the tape leader on theE drive to be latched onto the loading arm so it is ready to handle the  next tape cartridge.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 08:16:21 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside 3 Message-ID: <iEMIKysHbuWu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <slrnej8sq4.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>, Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> writes: j > In article <1161064243.604009.87960@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, armistej <JArmistead@mail.com> wrote: >>G >> After checking the Google archives, it seems like a regular question G >> about TZ30s (the SCSI version of the TK50). How to stop the 3 lights  >> flashing and unload a tape. >> >> Any ideas ? > J > Motor failure? Capstan failure? Common issue with some of the older tapeE > drives now, though I'm not familiar with the TZ30 and its quirks or  > common issues, specifically.  E    I never had to do this to a TZ30, but I've done it many times with '    TK70 and a couple times with a TZ85.   D    You can remove the drive, remove some covers, manually rewind theG    tape, rehook the leader, and then wedge out the cartridge.  What the D    original cause was is left to diagnose (sometimes it was the cardF    of labels statically klinging to the cartridge as it was inserted).  H    I got to where I could pull a TK70, leaving it electrically attached,H    and fix this problem, while the VAX 3300 it was housed in remained in    use.   E    Never did figure out why just that one TK70 kept doing this to me, G    but it was only a couple times a year.  The TZ85 was clearly broken.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:29:08 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>9 Subject: Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside C Message-ID: <1161095348.583337.227410@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > armistej wrote: K > > I can't get the tape out, and pressing the Unload buttons several times K > > gets a flashing activity light followed by all 3 lights flashing again. J > >  With the lid off the storage cabinet, I can see that it tries to moveJ > > the tape, but it doesn't do anything more than tension it slightly and > > then release again.  >  > D > what does SHOW DEV MUA0:/FULL reveal ? Does VMS still thinks it is > mounted ?  > F > You might try to $MOUNT MUA0: label  and then $DISMOUNT/UNLOAD mua0: >  > G > Another thing you can do (not for faint of heart) is to pull the TK50 I > out and gently pull the power plug out of the unit. Wait a few seconds, J > and then plug it back in.  The unit should then reset itself.  (or to be% > safe, power down the whole system).  > I > If all else fails, you can activate the latch on the side to unlock the D > "cartridge eject" handle, and pull the cartridge out. (You need toF > partially pull the tape drive out of the cabinet for that).  You canI > then pull the tape out by hand into the real world equivalent of NLA0:. J > After you are done, you will need to manually set the tape leader on theG > drive to be latched onto the loading arm so it is ready to handle the  > next tape cartridge.  C Cycling power to the drive worked for me except if there was actual C damage to the tape or the drive.  Sometimes (not always) a SCSI bus B reset would also work (on the VAXstation that was INIT followed by UNJAM at the console).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:38:31 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> 9 Subject: Re: TZ30 3 flashing lights and tape stuck inside 3 Message-ID: <1161099808_42663@sp6iad.superfeed.net>    armistej wrote:  > Hi > F > After checking the Google archives, it seems like a regular questionF > about TZ30s (the SCSI version of the TK50). How to stop the 3 lights > flashing and unload a tape.  > H > The take-up leader is still attached OK, so that discounts most of theB > advice normally proferred on this list when this topic comes up. > I > My TZ30 has a tape inside, with about half an inch of tape wound around G > the reel, and the rest still inside the TK50 cartridge itself.  There C > doesn't appear to be any damage to the tape - it's flat and still ' > around the rollers of the TZ30 drive.  > I > I can't get the tape out, and pressing the Unload buttons several times I > gets a flashing activity light followed by all 3 lights flashing again. H >  With the lid off the storage cabinet, I can see that it tries to moveH > the tape, but it doesn't do anything more than tension it slightly and > then release again.  > 
 > Any ideas ?  >   H 1. New TK tapes come with a bit of paper in the box (instruction sheet).; Make sure you didn't install this under the tape cartridge.  Seen that a couple of times.  9 2. Try to manualy pull in more tape onto the takeup reel. G Sometimes the tape inside the cartridge is messed up, and you will need ) to disassamble the tape cartridge to fix.   @ 3. Tape drive confused. Power cycle sometimes clears this error., This is easier to do with an external drive.   ...   ( and sometimes the tapes are just bitchy.  Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:19:51 -0700 ( From: Ian King <iking@cs.washington.edu>) Subject: Re: VAX 6000 still doesn't start 2 Message-ID: <J79qvy.20Dp@beaver.cs.washington.edu>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 > In article <J70ELF.DKw@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, - > 	Ian King <iking@cs.washington.edu> writes:  >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >>  >>>This may or may not help you. >>> K >>>Last week, I pulled out a TF85 drive from a DSSI enclosure.  No problem.  >>> I >>>But when I put the unit back it, the whole cabinet powered off. I have K >>>to pysically move the power switch to OFF for a while and then power the  >>>cabinet back up.  >>> I >>>Seems that the power su0pply detected an anomaly/short when I inserted K >>>the tape drive into the DSSI slot and shut down. The power supply had no - >>>fault indication on it. But fans were off.  >>> I >>>If you have a compressor, try blowing air into each backpane connector B >>>to ensure there is no "lint" that could short the power leads.  >>> I >>>Did you manage to pull out ALL boards from the system and try to power J >>>it up to see if the power supply is then happy ? And then put back each+ >>>board one by one until a fault happens ?  >>D >>I did pull out all the boards - no change.  Interestingly, when I K >>disconnect the control connection to the XMI-side H7215, the rest of the  E >>regulators work as expected, i.e. DC OK comes on.  (Of course, the  K >>computer still won't boot.)  This suggests that the H7215 is telling the  I >>H7206B to shut things down.  But I haven't figured out why it would do   >>that.  -- Ian  >  > J > This sounds like a problem I had with a couple of PDP11/44's.  I thoughtG > it was bad power supplies but it turned out to be the DC OK detection G > circuit on the CIM.  By disabling this I was able to boot and run the L > systems just fine. (After testing the PS with a scope to be sure it really > was working properly.) >  > bill > I Another data point here: I pulled the output connector from the XMI-side  D H7215, wondering if it was a short on one of its output.  No change.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:24:32 +0200 % From: "nst" <NorbertATstadlersDOTnet>  Subject: Re: Virtual VMS+ Message-ID: <453341e4$1_2@news.arcor-ip.de>    ***previous lines deleted**** H <> I made a download from charon-vax (vax for windows demonstration),and > I'm not satisfied I > with this software. Where is lexical functions , show system commands ,  > etc ?? > E If you download CHARON-VAX demo package you get a Vax 3900.With the  K utilityMkdiskwin you create a system disk image. Load your VMS into it and  I boot - Then on the DCL prompt you can type $ Show System,.. f$getdvi(...)    norbert    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 04:28:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks), Message-ID: <45349406.9FD0E1EB@teksavvy.com>  ? TCPIP Services management guide for 5.3 was nice in PDF format. B TCPIP Sercices management guide for 5.6 is UNUSABLE in PDF format.  O Why? Because it lacks PDF bookmarks that make it easy to navigate the document.   F I have noticed over time that some PDF documents had the bookmarks andE some didn't.  But I had figured that as time went on, any new version H produced would have the bookmarks. But it now seems that even a documentB that had originally br produced with bookmarks is not garanteed to, maintain those bookmarks when it is revised.  E Does anyone have any explanation of why some documents have bookmarks B and some don't ?  (and whi one particulatr document woudl lose theF bookmarks after an update). What sort of tools are used that result in4 some getting bookmarks and others not getting them ?      H (a PDF document without bookmarks is unusable because you cannot quicklyB get to some section by clicking on an index of topics, you have to8 scroll through every page to find the content you want).  E I take it that once posted to the web, there is no chance of having a D PDF file re-generated with bookmarkts and reposted to the web site ?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:31:06 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)C Message-ID: <1161095465.969883.236720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: A > TCPIP Services management guide for 5.3 was nice in PDF format. D > TCPIP Sercices management guide for 5.6 is UNUSABLE in PDF format. > Q > Why? Because it lacks PDF bookmarks that make it easy to navigate the document.  > H > I have noticed over time that some PDF documents had the bookmarks andG > some didn't.  But I had figured that as time went on, any new version J > produced would have the bookmarks. But it now seems that even a documentD > that had originally br produced with bookmarks is not garanteed to. > maintain those bookmarks when it is revised. > G > Does anyone have any explanation of why some documents have bookmarks D > and some don't ?  (and whi one particulatr document woudl lose theH > bookmarks after an update). What sort of tools are used that result in6 > some getting bookmarks and others not getting them ? >  >  > J > (a PDF document without bookmarks is unusable because you cannot quicklyD > get to some section by clicking on an index of topics, you have to: > scroll through every page to find the content you want). > G > I take it that once posted to the web, there is no chance of having a F > PDF file re-generated with bookmarkts and reposted to the web site ?  G In the past when I complained about doc problems the reason was usually E due to switching from the DEC tools and formatting to the HP standard D tools and formatting.  It would not surprise me at all if thats what happened here.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 10:42:51 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)3 Message-ID: <OOLJvA2aoMgz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <1161095465.969883.236720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> writes:  I > In the past when I complained about doc problems the reason was usually G > due to switching from the DEC tools and formatting to the HP standard F > tools and formatting.  It would not surprise me at all if thats what > happened here.  ; In my experience, any problem is in the opposite direction. ? I am unaware of DEC Document producing PDF, so any DEC Document ? publication to PDF must be done by creating Postscript and then 2 converting to PDF using a tool like Adobe Acrobat.  D Using Postscript as an intermediate language removes any possibilityB of passing through links found in the Bookreader and HTML versions of the same document.  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 10:05:25 -0700) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)C Message-ID: <1161104725.339051.177650@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:p > In article <1161095465.969883.236720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> writes: > K > > In the past when I complained about doc problems the reason was usually I > > due to switching from the DEC tools and formatting to the HP standard H > > tools and formatting.  It would not surprise me at all if thats what > > happened here. > = > In my experience, any problem is in the opposite direction. A > I am unaware of DEC Document producing PDF, so any DEC Document A > publication to PDF must be done by creating Postscript and then 4 > converting to PDF using a tool like Adobe Acrobat. > F > Using Postscript as an intermediate language removes any possibilityD > of passing through links found in the Bookreader and HTML versions > of the same document.  > --P > ==============================================================================2 > DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -/ > 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html P > ============================================================================== Larry,  D With all due respect, I must disagree. The interface used to produceF PDF bookmarks is the pdfmark operator, which is a PostScript extension1 supported by Adobe Acrobat for just this purpose.   @ I have used it quite a few times to produce PDF bookmarks within3 reports written from applications using PostScript.   F It is quite (regrettably) plausible that the bookmarking functionalityF was lost in the transition from VAX Document. I have mentioned this inG several fora in the last year or so.  Without the bookmarks, it becomes G very hard, particularly on lower speed connections, to work through the  documentation.  $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:54:50 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows/ Message-ID: <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>   , <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message & news:egvtgt$21u$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...; > In article <00A5D480.325A52C8@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   > @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: G >>In article <egvpns$sf$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  	 >>writes:  >>>  >>> 9 >>>In article <4533649C.D1BA69B9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  ) >>><jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: F >>>>VMS' current version is 8.3. Released in 2006 (july if I remember  >>>>correctly).  >>>>L >>>>When was the last Windows release made (XP SP-2) ? Wasn't it a number of >>>>years ago ?  >>> M >>>But the next version of Windows  (Vista) is due out soon (though somewhat   >>>later* >>>than originally intended by Microsoft). >>' >>They had alot of code to comment out:  >>; >>/*   printf("Weendoze XP")  */  /* same bugs, new name */  >>; >>     printf("Weendoze Vista)    /* same bugs, new name */  >> > J > No be fair - I'm sure they have spent a lot of effort in putting in new  > bugs.  > K > Which transition was it (NT to XP or something else) where the publicity   > for G > the new version was that it fixed a gazillion bugs affecting the old  	 > version K > (while of course up until the release they had been claiming that the old  > version was secure). >  > David Webb    K Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade the  E PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware  	 directly? M With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall everything,  > from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them....H I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure 
 eveything.J I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it   miserably failed at boot time...  % I just LOVE BACKUP /IMAGE and VMS !!! 0 M$ is still not there. Maybe they never will be.   Syltrem    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:33:46 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than WindowsJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-6CE718.17334617102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  / In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>, ,  "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote:  . > <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message ( > news:egvtgt$21u$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...= > > In article <00A5D480.325A52C8@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   > > @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: I > >>In article <egvpns$sf$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk   > >>writes:  > >>>  > >>> ; > >>>In article <4533649C.D1BA69B9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  + > >>><jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: H > >>>>VMS' current version is 8.3. Released in 2006 (july if I remember  > >>>>correctly).  > >>>>N > >>>>When was the last Windows release made (XP SP-2) ? Wasn't it a number of > >>>>years ago ?  > >>> O > >>>But the next version of Windows  (Vista) is due out soon (though somewhat  
 > >>>later, > >>>than originally intended by Microsoft). > >>) > >>They had alot of code to comment out:  > >>= > >>/*   printf("Weendoze XP")  */  /* same bugs, new name */  > >>= > >>     printf("Weendoze Vista)    /* same bugs, new name */  > >> > > L > > No be fair - I'm sure they have spent a lot of effort in putting in new 	 > > bugs.  > > M > > Which transition was it (NT to XP or something else) where the publicity   > > for I > > the new version was that it fixed a gazillion bugs affecting the old   > > version M > > (while of course up until the release they had been claiming that the old  > > version was secure). > >  > > David Webb >  > M > Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade the  G > PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware   > directly? O > With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall everything,  @ > from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them....J > I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure  > eveything.L > I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it " > miserably failed at boot time... > ' > I just LOVE BACKUP /IMAGE and VMS !!! 2 > M$ is still not there. Maybe they never will be. > 
 > Syltrem   F Be warned that the reported licensing model for Vista might make this  tricky:   5 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35057   G "SOFTWARE colossus Microsoft has confirmed that licences for its super  < soar away Vista operating system will be extremely limiting.  H  According to Techweb, the licences will limit the number of times that C it is possible to transfer the operating system to another device."    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:20:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows+ Message-ID: <4pke74Fjc48sU1@individual.net>   / In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>, - 	"Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  > M > Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade the  G > PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware   > directly? O > With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall everything,  @ > from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them....  	 Bullcrap.   J > I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure  > eveything.L > I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it " > miserably failed at boot time...  C Build a master image of Windows for the labs and then install it on C all the machines in the lab.  At no time have I had a lab where all B the machines were the same.  Usually, I have 3-4 totally differentA hardware configurations on lab machines.  And it still works with ; just one image and, at most, a little massaging of drivers.    > ' > I just LOVE BACKUP /IMAGE and VMS !!! 2 > M$ is still not there. Maybe they never will be.  D Like it or not, M$ is where it needs to be.  It has the market sewed; up while VMS just sinks deeper and deeper into the abyss.      bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:22:08 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows0 Message-ID: <12ja49p9ueeeg2b@corp.supernews.com>  6 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:4pke74Fjc48sU1@individual.net... 1 > In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>, . > "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: >>J >> Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade  >> theG >> PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware  >> directly?D >> With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall  >> everything,A >> from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them....  >  > Bullcrap.  > J >> I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure
 >> eveything. L >> I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it# >> miserably failed at boot time...  > E > Build a master image of Windows for the labs and then install it on E > all the machines in the lab.  At no time have I had a lab where all D > the machines were the same.  Usually, I have 3-4 totally differentC > hardware configurations on lab machines.  And it still works with = > just one image and, at most, a little massaging of drivers.  >   > M$ says in KB article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/Q249694:F Microsoft *does not* support restoring a system state backup from one F computer to a second computer of a different make, model, or hardware  configuration.  @ And past experience shows going to a different HW does not work.M If you take a Ghost copy of a PC and load that onto a different hardware, it   won't boot. K There are exceptions but if you go from a Pentium III single to Pentium IV  % with 2 CPUs, it certainly won't work.    Syltrem    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:30:22 GMT + From: Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX * Message-ID: <453494bb$1@news.deckpoint.ch>   Bob Koehler wrote:   [snip]  H >> My question would be, do *any* of the emulators support "idling" on aL >> laptop?  You really don't want the emulation driving the host CPU at 100%( >> all the time, especially on a laptop. > K >    In order to get out of the idle loop on a simulator, you need to patch E >    VMS.  It's not something the simulator can easily do on its own. ? >    IIRC SRI will give you such a patch for VMS on Charon-VAX.  > E The 'idle loop' in CHARON-VAX and CHARON-AXP is a small utility that  G interacts with CHARON and reduces the host load to practically zero if  C there no work for VMS. Any VAX cq Alpha interrupt will immediately   restore the normal situation.   C It works for any VMS version from 5.5 upwards. It does not use any  J (emulated) peripheral device and has no effect on a hardware VAX or Alpha.   Robert Boers   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:46:37 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX 3 Message-ID: <oxQzVP27Fvik@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <4phoc7FirulbU1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes: % > On 2006-10-13 15:53, "FredK" wrote:  >  >> I still have my Tadpole ;-) > J > Wasn't that "AlphaBook" built using an inferior Alpha CPU (21066, IIRC)?  ?    Tadpole built (or was?) a series of notebooks with non-Intel I    processors for folks who _needed_ them.  We had one with a SPARC in it G    running Solaris.  IIRC the Alpha Tadpole was $12K - $14K US, I think     the SPARC was similar.   E    Interestingly Tadpole only supported VMS on the Alpha, not digital     UNIX and certainly not WNT.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 07:55:07 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: VMS laptops, was: Re: VMS VS LINUX 3 Message-ID: <MeceW988Yv2w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <453494bb$1@news.deckpoint.ch>, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> writes:  G > The 'idle loop' in CHARON-VAX and CHARON-AXP is a small utility that  I > interacts with CHARON and reduces the host load to practically zero if  E > there no work for VMS. Any VAX cq Alpha interrupt will immediately   > restore the normal situation.  > E > It works for any VMS version from 5.5 upwards. It does not use any  L > (emulated) peripheral device and has no effect on a hardware VAX or Alpha.  F    OK, I guess if you qualify it sufficiently, the idle loop is unique&    and can be caught by the simulator.      Two technical questions:   >    For VAX, why not replace the "10$: BRB 10$', with HALT?  AnE    interrupt will pick up in the ISR and things will continue.  Would E    the incremented PC from the HALT instruction ever cause a problem? E    Would the patch have to lower IPL prior to the HALT?  I was going  F    to try this one day, but didn't have time to finish the patch in a     recoverable manner.  F    (VAX 11/780 could readily be continued after hitting a HALT, I usedG    this many times when debugging kernel code.  Later VAXen depended on I    console settings which could be set to system halt, crash, or reboot.)   E    For Alpha, can you tell in a non-version dependent way when VMS is B    really idle vs. when the "idle loop" is actually stocking up on    pre-zero'ed pages?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:19:15 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX - Message-ID: <nL4Zg.22$nr2.75@news.oracle.com>   , Here's something I've never seen in OpenVMS.  @ http://www.theregister.com/2006/10/17/nvidia_linux_graphics_bug/  # Nvidia rooted by Linux graphics bug  Binary blob malaise $ By John Leyden ? More by this author- Published Tuesday 17th October 2006 11:54 GMT   @ Security researchers have published an exploit that highlights a? long-standing security bug in Nvidia graphic drivers for Linux. ? Nvidia Driver For Linux v8774 and v8762 are subject to a buffer ? overflow bug that creates a means for hackers to inject hostile = code as root. The bug might be exploited locally or remotely, A providing malicious hackers are able to trick users into visiting " a maliciously-constructed website.  C Nvidia drivers for Solaris and FreeBSD, as well as earlier versions = of Nvidia's closed-source Linux driver, are also likely to be A vulnerable, according to security firm Rapid7, which published an   advisory on the issue on Monday.   ..  + Remainder of story at the URL listed above.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 08:05:57 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com>  Subject: Re: VMS VS LINUX C Message-ID: <1161097557.645599.210740@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bart Z. Lederman wrote: . > Here's something I've never seen in OpenVMS.  @ You are right though only because Nvidia do not support OpenVMS.  D Security through lack of support is possibly not the best example to* pull out in a Linux vs OpenVMS discussion.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  > B > http://www.theregister.com/2006/10/17/nvidia_linux_graphics_bug/ > % > Nvidia rooted by Linux graphics bug  > Binary blob malaise & > By John Leyden ? More by this author/ > Published Tuesday 17th October 2006 11:54 GMT  > B > Security researchers have published an exploit that highlights aA > long-standing security bug in Nvidia graphic drivers for Linux. A > Nvidia Driver For Linux v8774 and v8762 are subject to a buffer A > overflow bug that creates a means for hackers to inject hostile ? > code as root. The bug might be exploited locally or remotely, C > providing malicious hackers are able to trick users into visiting $ > a maliciously-constructed website. > E > Nvidia drivers for Solaris and FreeBSD, as well as earlier versions ? > of Nvidia's closed-source Linux driver, are also likely to be C > vulnerable, according to security firm Rapid7, which published an " > advisory on the issue on Monday. >  > .. > - > Remainder of story at the URL listed above.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 05:09:00 -0600 # From: Jim Mehlhop <jim@mehlhop.org>  Subject: Re: VMSMail question * Message-ID: <4534B9CC.4060804@mehlhop.org>   Tom Linden wrote:   H > On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:50:15 -0700, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > OK, I ran  >  tcpip anal mail/repair  > then >  > HAFNER> mail >  > You have 4 new messages. >  > MAIL> dir . > %MAIL-E-NOTEXIST, folder MAIL does not exist >  > MAIL> dir/new $ > %MAIL-W-NONEWMAIL, no new messages > G > Now it occurred that since I run all 5 nodes in the cluster and run    > loadbrokerI > I really should run this under sysman.  Doing so, it only ran on three  	 > of  the F > nodes, can't explain why, running it manually on one of the omitted  > nodes,  Freja  > cleared the problem  > 
 > so I did > sysman> set e/c # > sysman> do tcpip anal mail/repair  > k > ┌───────────────────────┬─────────┐ + > │        SYSTEMS        │ MEMBERS │ k > ├────────┬──────────────┼─────────┤ - > │  NODE  │   SOFTWARE   │  STATUS │ k > ├────────┼──────────────┼─────────┤ 0 > │ HAFNER │ VMS V7.3-2   │ MEMBER  │ran4 > │ HERMES │ VMS V7.3     │ MEMBER  │VAX ran+ > │ NORNS  │ VMS V7.3-1   │ MEMBER  | - > │ FREJA  │ VMS V8.2     │ MEMBER  │ 0 > │ ODIN   │ VMS V8.3     │ MEMBER  │rank > └────────┴──────────────┴─────────┘  > J > Haven't this problem before, but going to blame it on Outlook 2003 on my > new laptop > D Sounds like you have mail in a node specific directory instead of a G common directory.  Also do you have your mail logicals set for cluster  9 operation?  Do you have multiple system disks or sysuaf's    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:48:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Weird BIND Server behaviour (reverse lookups), Message-ID: <45348A99.B9958430@teksavvy.com>  ! VAX VMS 7.3, TCPIP Services 5.3-2   " ---------------------------------- $ nslookup 204.92.15.223 Server:  VELO.vaxination.ca  Address:  10.0.0.11  <very long pause> H *** VELO.vaxination.ca can't find 204.92.15.223: No response from server $   " ----------------------------------   $ nslookup 129.42.60.212 Server:  VELO.vaxination.ca  Address:  10.0.0.11    Name:    www.ibm.com Address:  129.42.60.212    (almost instant).   " ----------------------------------   Now, the plot thickens:     
 $ nslookup# Default Server:  VELO.vaxination.ca  Address:  10.0.0.11    > server dns1.teksavvy.com" Default Server:  dns1.teksavvy.com Address:  69.28.199.126    > 204.92.15.223  Server:  dns1.teksavvy.com Address:  69.28.199.126    Name:    aegis.fido.ca Address:  204.92.15.223   W ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   E So, how come my BIND server ( from the tcpip services cannot find the E reverse translation from 204.92.15.223, but my ISP's DNS server can ? > This would indicate that it is not a failure at the DNS serverF responsive for that IP block since my ISP's DNS server is able to pull the PTR record without problem.   H And how come my own BIND server would be unable to resolve an apparently9 resolvable IP, but have no problem resolving the IBM IP ?     F (and this isn't just NSLOOKUP, it is all other utilities even the SMTPG receiver. (aegis.fido.ca happens to be the SMTP server that distributes  emails I send from my handset).     @ I know about the TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_CONTROL.EXE utility which canH increase the trace levels. Does anyone know if trace output would be theG exact same as on documented UNIX versions ? Since the VMS documentation ? is absent for this, I would have to rely on UNIX gurus I guess.   F (I've not yet setup the alpha version of BIND which appears to be less	 ancient).    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.571 ************************