1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 572       Contents:+ All about Squirrel webmail - please tell me / Re: All about Squirrel webmail - please tell me ) Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed - Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed - Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed - Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed - Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed - Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed - Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed  Re: DS10L to a good home...  Re: DS10L to a good home...  Re: DS10L to a good home...  FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start Re: FTP fails to start4 Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week4 Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week4 Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week In a box solutions$ Integer number with no leading zeros( Re: Integer number with no leading zeros( Re: Integer number with no leading zeros( Re: Integer number with no leading zeros8 Re: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ?! Re: ODS LEVEL 5 and Pathwork v6.1 1 OT: Former Compaq board member cleared of charges  Re: Outsourcing of VMS Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Question about terminals Re: Request for kit  Re: Request for kit  Re: Request for kit " US military gives HP big contracts VAX 4000 Error Codes Re: VAX 4000 Error Codes7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks) 7 Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS is younger than Windows  Re: VMS stuff available now   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 12:06:07 -0700% From: "anytimej" <anytimej@gmail.com> 4 Subject: All about Squirrel webmail - please tell meB Message-ID: <1161111967.124506.96200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Hi,   @ My school gives us squirrel webmail to use. I like it very much.  F I have bought a domain name and some email accounts. Now I want to useF squirrel webmail to access my emails of my new domain name. And I want4 to give squirrel webmail of my domain to others too.  F How do I set up account with squirrel webmail? I do not need a OutlookG type (computer email program). I want a squirrel webmail program. Is it  free?   : Should I ask for help here or in any other group or forum?   Please reply ASAP.   Thanks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:28:38 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> 8 Subject: Re: All about Squirrel webmail - please tell meE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0610171927190.27530@localhost.localdomain>   $ On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, anytimej wrote:  B > My school gives us squirrel webmail to use. I like it very much. ... < > Should I ask for help here or in any other group or forum?  B Doesn't look like anybody here knows anything about it, and it is D certainly off-topic for this group.  Try someplace in the comp.mail 
 hierarchy.  
 Good luck.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:55:44 -0700   From: Z <SpamDumpst3r@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed* Message-ID: <jrbZg.57$8W1.32@newsfe02.lga>  L I have a dead Alphaserver 200 4/233. The power supply has decided to retire.  J The power supply is an ASTEC MODEL SA180-3505. ASTEC no longer makes them.  9 Would anyone here have a spare they'd like to get rid of?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:21:25 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed0 Message-ID: <00A5D5A9.E6F5C72E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <jrbZg.57$8W1.32@newsfe02.lga>, Z <SpamDumpst3r@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > M >I have a dead Alphaserver 200 4/233. The power supply has decided to retire.  > K >The power supply is an ASTEC MODEL SA180-3505. ASTEC no longer makes them.  > : >Would anyone here have a spare they'd like to get rid of?    I I thought those were just crappy old PeeCee type power supplies.  I'm not J up on all the PeeCee nomenclature (for obvious reasons).  Perhaps somebody  else here can explain they type.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:42:28 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)6 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed2 Message-ID: <06101718422800_2020028F@antinode.org>  " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  O > In article <jrbZg.57$8W1.32@newsfe02.lga>, Z <SpamDumpst3r@yahoo.com> writes: O > >I have a dead Alphaserver 200 4/233. The power supply has decided to retire. M > >The power supply is an ASTEC MODEL SA180-3505. ASTEC no longer makes them. < > >Would anyone here have a spare they'd like to get rid of? > K > I thought those were just crappy old PeeCee type power supplies.  I'm not L > up on all the PeeCee nomenclature (for obvious reasons).  Perhaps somebody" > else here can explain they type.  H    I know nothing, but it sure doesn't look exotic, just old.  Only 180WF rated output, and a real power switch.  On my budget, if I needed one,F I'd probably look at generic PC units to see if anything matched up in the ratings and connector(s).   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:04:42 -0700) From: "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> 6 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply neededC Message-ID: <1161129882.422024.125250@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:$ > From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG > Q > > In article <jrbZg.57$8W1.32@newsfe02.lga>, Z <SpamDumpst3r@yahoo.com> writes: Q > > >I have a dead Alphaserver 200 4/233. The power supply has decided to retire. O > > >The power supply is an ASTEC MODEL SA180-3505. ASTEC no longer makes them. > > > >Would anyone here have a spare they'd like to get rid of? > > M > > I thought those were just crappy old PeeCee type power supplies.  I'm not N > > up on all the PeeCee nomenclature (for obvious reasons).  Perhaps somebody$ > > else here can explain they type. > J >    I know nothing, but it sure doesn't look exotic, just old.  Only 180WH > rated output, and a real power switch.  On my budget, if I needed one,H > I'd probably look at generic PC units to see if anything matched up in > the ratings and connector(s).  > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   7 Non-standard power connectors going to the motherboard.  Just like Dell.   ? Somebody may have pinned them out and posted the findings here.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:38:33 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 6 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed: Message-ID: <ouqdnalWR7MI6qjYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com>  
 WWWebb wrote:    > Steven M. Schweda wrote: > $ >>From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG >> >>P >>>In article <jrbZg.57$8W1.32@newsfe02.lga>, Z <SpamDumpst3r@yahoo.com> writes: >>> P >>>>I have a dead Alphaserver 200 4/233. The power supply has decided to retire.N >>>>The power supply is an ASTEC MODEL SA180-3505. ASTEC no longer makes them.= >>>>Would anyone here have a spare they'd like to get rid of?  <snip> > 9 > Non-standard power connectors going to the motherboard.  > Just like Dell.   F No, just like Digital.  Digital just didn't believe in using industry F standard components!  Until VERY late in the game I believe that just B about every component of every machine was designed from scratch! H Remember when the RZ26 came in about 25 different variants?  It was the I same disk drive but 25 different sets of mounting hardware; one for each   machine that supported it!!!!!   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:45:25 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 6 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed( Message-ID: <eh4bh5$u0v$1@pcls4.std.com>  + "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> writes:   8 >Non-standard power connectors going to the motherboard. >Just like Dell.  @ >Somebody may have pinned them out and posted the findings here.  I I have two Alphastation 200's and both had the power supply die. When the G second one died, I bought the cheapest ATX power supply CompUSA had and I replaced the plugs with the ones from the dead power supply.  This wasn't F easy because not only did DEC and the PC world disagree on the type ofF plugs, they disagreed on the color codes of the wires. (well, they didD agree on black for common).  The colors for the +/- 12V are actually swapped.  - This worked out well, the system still works.   D It helped that I did some qual work for DEC on Alphastation 200s andD was used to tearing them apart and putting them back together again.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:43:56 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 200 4/233 power supply needed9 Message-ID: <ipWdnU0qm-tAM6jYnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Z wrote:G > I have a dead Alphaserver 200 4/233. The power supply has decided to  	 > retire.  > L > The power supply is an ASTEC MODEL SA180-3505. ASTEC no longer makes them. > ; > Would anyone here have a spare they'd like to get rid of?   F Did a quick search.  Only price I found was $299.  Better to put such   amounts into a DS10L from David.  C If you find a source, I'd appreciate knowing.  I've got at least 2  E systems down due to the power supply fan.  Tried to fix one with new  E fan, but system wouldn't run.  I'm not a HW guy.  Probably something   simple, but not for me.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:55:03 -0400 & From: "Hal Kuff" <halkuff@verizon.net>$ Subject: Re: DS10L to a good home...* Message-ID: <cG9Zg.61$ow6.25@newsfe14.lga>  6 How are you Richard... hope you are doing very well...? "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message  4 news:WKWdnbZXG4cNTKnYnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com... > Galen wrote: >  >> Hal,  >>H >> If you still have these systems available I'd love to get my hands onJ >> one. I am in Northern Virginia (work in Chantilly) but would be glad to= >> drive as far as Baltimore if that should be where you are.  > C > He's in Hunt Valley, MD. It's about 30 miles north of Baltimore.     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:24:07 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG$ Subject: Re: DS10L to a good home...0 Message-ID: <00A5D588.C0512411@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <cG9Zg.61$ow6.25@newsfe14.lga>, "Hal Kuff" <halkuff@verizon.net> writes:  >  > 7 >How are you Richard... hope you are doing very well...   3 Have you decided on the recipient(s) of your offer?    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:12:36 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> $ Subject: Re: DS10L to a good home...: Message-ID: <NpadnfJyKZXN2qjYnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Hal Kuff wrote:   8 > How are you Richard... hope you are doing very well...A > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message  6 > news:WKWdnbZXG4cNTKnYnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com... >  >>Galen wrote: >> >> >>>Hal,  >>> H >>>If you still have these systems available I'd love to get my hands onJ >>>one. I am in Northern Virginia (work in Chantilly) but would be glad to= >>>drive as far as Baltimore if that should be where you are.  >>C >>He's in Hunt Valley, MD. It's about 30 miles north of Baltimore.   >  >  >  I'm fine thanks.  D Weren't you going to send me a check for 240 miles and $14 in tolls?  E I emailed the mileage and tolls as you requested but I got neither a   reply nor a check!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:18:02 -0700 , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: FTP fails to start V Message-ID: <OFBE7162A2.659EB4AD-ON0725720A.0068A01D-0725720A.0069F876@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks:  ' TCPIP 5.1, OVMS 7.3 (sorry, pretty old)   K It starts up OK and seems to work -- $PING and $TELNET are OK.  FTP is not.      Problem is this:   $TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE FTP   $ operates without a comment, but then   $TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP    shows it disabled, furthermore  4 $FTP 127.0.0.1  (likewise $TELNET/PORT=21 127.0.0.1)  E is rejected.  There are no log files anywhere that I could find.  The A logicals indicate FTP started OK.  The images (two I believe) are 
 installed.   $TCPIP SHOW SERV FTP/PERM/FULL   looks somewhat like this:    Service: FTP  C Port:         21                                      Protocol: TCP  Address: 0.0.0.0G Inactivity:  5                                     User_name: TCPIP$FTP  Process:  TCPIP$FTP  Limit:        10  8 File:                     TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:                TCPIP    Socket Opts:    Rcheck  Scheck, Receive:      0                   Send:    0  H Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy  Rjct  TimO Addr> File:               SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security Reject msg:  not defined Accept host: 0.0.0.0 Accept netw: 0.0.0.0  I Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated.  Updating to newer versions  is a difficult option.  
 TIA, dave.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:34:08 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: FTP fails to start 2 Message-ID: <06101714340810_2020028F@antinode.org>  , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com>   > $TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP  >   > shows it disabled, furthermore > 6 > $FTP 127.0.0.1  (likewise $TELNET/PORT=21 127.0.0.1) > I > is rejected.  There are no log files anywhere that I could find.  [...]   '    "[I]s rejected" means what, exactly?   @ > File:               SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG  2    Did you look for that one?  It should be there.      Around here:   - alp $ pipe show system | search sys$input ftp P 2020022D TCPIP$FTP_1     LEF     10    40428   0 00:00:06.25       482    452  N   but:   alp $ tcpip show version  ;   HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 6 D   on a COMPAQ Professional Workstation XP1000 running OpenVMS V7.3-2  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:19:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: FTP fails to start , Message-ID: <45353AB3.29F8A31C@teksavvy.com>   David D Miller wrote:   G > is rejected.  There are no log files anywhere that I could find.  The C > logicals indicate FTP started OK.  The images (two I believe) are  > installed.  J > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy  Rjct  TimO > Addr@ > File:               SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG  % You cannot find the above  log file ?   E If not, it is quite possible that your service is not properly setup.   H @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG and go see the FTP server section. If it isn'tH in the server, look in the client section (it seems to be in both placesE in 5.3 and 5.6).  It will pickup the "disabled" status you have after D the failure (normal) and give you opportunity to set it up properly.  E Also important: TCPIP uses "random" UICs for its usernames. Make sure D that disk:[sys0]TCPIP$FTP.DIR is actually owned by TCPIP$FTP and notE some other TCPIP account. (if you share a UAF with another system, it A may result in files having been created by a TCPIP$FTP that had a  different UIC in the past).   G Bad onwership of the directory might explain the inability to place the  log file there.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:21:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: FTP fails to start , Message-ID: <45353B37.E7517ED3@teksavvy.com>   "Steven M. Schweda" wrote:/ > alp $ pipe show system | search sys$input ftp R > 2020022D TCPIP$FTP_1     LEF     10    40428   0 00:00:06.25       482    452  N  3 BTW, on recent VMS (including 7.2 VAX), you can do:    SHOW SYS/PROC=*FTP*    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:43:06 GMT  From: hoff@hp.nospam ()  Subject: Re: FTP fails to start 1 Message-ID: <ufbZg.1226$_J5.267@news.cpqcorp.net>    In article <OFBE7162A2.659EB4AD-ON0725720A.0068A01D-0725720A.0069F876@mck.us.ray.com>, David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> writes:   * |> TCPIP 5.1, OVMS 7.3 (sorry, pretty old) |>  N |> It starts up OK and seems to work -- $PING and $TELNET are OK.  FTP is not. ..L |> Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated.  Updating to newer versions |> is a difficult option.     B   Are the FTP client and FTP server components configured (via theH TCPIP$CONFIG configuration tool), and thus set to start up on bootstrap?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:45:16 -0700 , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Re: FTP fails to start V Message-ID: <OFA4781678.04C4E3AD-ON0725720A.00762A9A-0725720A.00777307@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks:  ? Thanks for the quick response.  I'll attempt to answer all your % questions/comments with this message.   H I checked with @TCPIP$CONFIG to make sure the FTP server and client were both enabled -- they were.  I I stopped the server .. just to get the following sequence right.  Then I & manually started the server as follows   $ @TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP'     image TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.exe installed (     image TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE installed     logical names created      service enabled      TCPIP$FTP startup complete   $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP5     FTP    21   TCP   TCPIP$FTP    0.0.0.0   Disabled    $ FTP 127.0.0.1 2    TCPIP-E-FTP-NETERR, I/O error on network source7    -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected    $ SHO SYS/PROC=TCPIP*      TCPIP$LPD_QUEUE      TCPIP$PWIP_ACP     TCPIP$XDM_1      TCPIP$TNS1     TCPIP$REXE_BG56    $  @TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN     FTP service already stopped     service disabled     logical names deleted)     image TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.exe deinstalled *     image TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE deinstalled     shutdown complete   : There is no DKA0:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG to be found.  1 TCPIP$FTP.DIR is owned by TCPIP$FTP and TCPIP$AUX    Can you think of anything else?    dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:04:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: FTP fails to start , Message-ID: <45355353.CBB4AB36@teksavvy.com>   David D Miller wrote:   >     TCPIP$FTP startup complete >  > $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP7 >     FTP    21   TCP   TCPIP$FTP    0.0.0.0   Disabled     F When a service fails to start, the TCPIP software marks the service asH disabled so that it doesn't constantly try to start it and have it fail.D So this is normal. And once you see it "disabled", an FTP operations
 will fail.    < > There is no DKA0:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG to be found.  G This is a very important issue.  It signals that the software is unable F to create the output file. And why the TCPIP software would immediatly disable the service.  D Use AUTHORIZE to display the TCPIP$FTP username. Its login directory# should be SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]   " And it should have NETWORK access.    G Also, check in that in that directory, you have a valid LOGIN.COM (also L onwed by TCPIP$FTP) which contains no real commands (just a comment or two).  H If you get desperate, then change TCPIP$FTP's password to a known entity	 and then:    DIR node"TCPIP$FTP password"::  H This might give you insight of what happens when TCPIP$FTP is starting aE process, whether it has access to its SYS$LOGIN and create a log file ! (in this case a decnet log file).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:28:27 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: FTP fails to start 9 Message-ID: <VPOdnYRhVPugNqjYnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    David D Miller wrote:  > Folks: > A > Thanks for the quick response.  I'll attempt to answer all your ' > questions/comments with this message.  > J > I checked with @TCPIP$CONFIG to make sure the FTP server and client were > both enabled -- they were. > K > I stopped the server .. just to get the following sequence right.  Then I ( > manually started the server as follows >  > $ @TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP) >     image TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.exe installed * >     image TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE installed >     logical names created  >     service enabled   >     TCPIP$FTP startup complete >  > $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICE FTP7 >     FTP    21   TCP   TCPIP$FTP    0.0.0.0   Disabled  >  > $ FTP 127.0.0.1 4 >    TCPIP-E-FTP-NETERR, I/O error on network source9 >    -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected  >  > $ SHO SYS/PROC=TCPIP*  >     TCPIP$LPD_QUEUE  >     TCPIP$PWIP_ACP >     TCPIP$XDM_1  >     TCPIP$TNS1 >     TCPIP$REXE_BG56  >  > $  @TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN! >     FTP service already stopped  >    service disabled  >    logical names deleted+ >     image TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.exe deinstalled , >     image TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE deinstalled >     shutdown complete  > < > There is no DKA0:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG to be found. > 3 > TCPIP$FTP.DIR is owned by TCPIP$FTP and TCPIP$AUX  > ! > Can you think of anything else?  >  > dave.  >  >   E TCPIP$CONFIG has a startup and shutdown in it's menu.  There are COM  F files to do the procedures.  Why aren't you using the provided tools? G You've probably done something improperly, and it's not worth checking  5 what you've done.  Use the provided tools.  It works.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:49:47 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week C Message-ID: <1161128987.049854.317680@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > AEF wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > >> AEF wrote:  >  > ...  > - > >>   You, OTOH, concentrate on off-topic or  > >>> somewhat-off-topic stuffF > >> Oh, really?  I guess VMS's (and its platform's) viability and theK > >> credibility of its vendor must not qualify as 'on-topic' in your book,  > > J > > Well, yes and no. I always thought the primary purpose of cov was as a > > technical group. > G > Even if that were the case (which may have been considerably more the H > case in the past, when technical issues were more the main concerns ofJ > VMS users), 'primary purpose' in no way equals '*sole* purpose' - thoughG > given your difficulties comprehending both language and logic, it may = > take a while for you to wrap your head around that concept.   B You're putting words in my mouth, too. Show me where I said "sole"E purpose. I said no such thing. I suppose I was taking the narrow view A of on-topic and everyone else is taking a severe negative view of E "off-topic" and the two just don't mix so well. Off-topic stuff seems F to be relatively well tolerated here, so what's the big deal? I wasn't) chiding Mr. Todd for his off topic posts.   G You are clearly nitpicking. My main point, since I have to spell it out E for you, is that Mr. Todd's posts are primarly of the Carly/Curly/Cpu F speeds and heat and cores/Integrigy/alphacide/... (you know the drill)F and mine are primarily about VMS itself. Since he concentrates on thatF his view of my posts is probably (that means probably, not definitely)1 heavily skewed toward my few posts in that realm.    Got it?    AEF  > ...  > K > >> despite the fact that they're arguably of far more significance to the 6 > >> readers here than most of your own contributions. > > , > > Significance to what YOU find important. > H > Well, if a serious VMS user does *not* consider the very real questionE > of its continued viability 'important', I'd say they have a serious H > perceptual problem.  And the amount of discussion devoted to preciselyB > that topic here by a large number of individuals suggests that aE > significant percentage of the active participants here *do* in fact  > consider it important. > G > But I hardly try to impose my values in that area on anyone else:  if F > they're interested in such discussion, fine; if not, that's fine tooF > (though I suspect they might pay a price for such a head-in-the-sandD > attitude down the road, unless they've *already* given up and madeB > migration plans, in which case the prospects for VMS's continuedF > viability would indeed not be significant to them and I could easily; > understand why they'd have no interest in discussing it).  > G > By contrast, you seem to be suggesting that discussion of things that F > *you* don't happen to consider important is somehow dubious.  And ofG > course you're welcome to that opinion - just don't expect any respect 	 > for it.  >   >   And why should anyone listen > > to you anyway? > J > Possibly because they value knowledge above ignorance?  Of course if you3 > don't, you may find that difficult to understand.  > H > Aside from taking care to get my immediate facts straight, I also haveI > an excellent track record of accurate long-term insights into issues of E > significance.  The head-in-the-sand crowd may find that annoying, I I > suppose - but I couldn't care less (nor do I care whether they listen).  > & > > And even if you're right, so what? > F > Aside from my own personal satisfaction in being a competent analystE > across a fairly wide range of activities, others often seem to find D > competent analysis and projections about the near- and medium-termF > future useful (in fact, many people and corporations pay significantJ > amounts of money to professionals in the hope of gaining such insights). > B > Of course, those with their eyes firmly glued to the square footG > immediately in front of their toes may not find that interesting, and ? > apparently prefer to bump into things as they stumble around.  >  >   Someone who needs G > > techincal help with a VMS problem isn't terribly insterested in the H > > Curly and Carly show, or how fast this chip is, or how hot that chip > > runs, and such.  > J > Yup - that's the kind of head-down, short-term vision that I expect fromH > you.  Not that immediate problems are unimportant, of course:  they'reC > just not *all* that's important, and often not even what's *most* F > important (much as they may seem that way to the terminally myopic). > ; >   It seems to me that you're making generalizations based  > > on not much. > F > When you don't consider something important in the first place, yourI > resulting ignorance makes statements like the above seem reasonable.  A : > bit circular, that - but that's the way of the clueless. >  > ...  >  > 1 > >>   and I don't recall you helping anyone with . > >>> real VMS problems, or at least not much.L > >> Perhaps you just haven't read enough - funny how you just suggested theM > >> same of me, despite my far less general comment about the nature of your  > >> contributions here. > >  > > Which general comment? > E > My comment to the effect that your analysis was 'often' incompetent B > (which I expanded upon elsewhere, so need not do so again here). > H > The point being that while neither of us has likely read anything likeI > all of the other's posts, I did not generalize about anything like *all D > or almost all* of your posts, as you did above.  Just more typicalD > sloppiness on your part (a subject which I also expanded upon in a$ > general sense in that other post). >  > ...  > H >   >>>>> I still find it hard to take Star Wars seriously. No, I didn't	 > see all M > >>>>> 6 movies (I saw the first (last) three), but I've read about them and G > >>>>> heard about them and I've decided I'm not missing much. I think + > >>>>> "utterly ignorant" is a bit strong. O > >>>> No, but perhaps I could have quoted a bit more of your drivel to make it ' > >>>> clearer what I was referring to:  > >>>>N > >>>> "Veiled references in Star Wars? I haven't seen the more recent ones (IM > >>>> thru III), but any "veiled references" were probably just you thinking 3 > >>>> about such things while watching the movie."  > >>>>L > >>>> So you made a to all appearances completely baseless assumption aboutL > >>>> the content of a film about which you were, AFAICT, truly and utterly> > >>>> ignorant at the applicable level of detail.  Clear now? > >>> I said "probably".F > >> So what?  This hardly negates your willingness to generalize with# > >> absolutely zero factual basis.  > > E > > Nonsense. Even people who LIKE Star Wars admit episode one sucked  > > donkey kong. > H > Do you have to work hard at being an idiot, or does it come naturally? > H > *The discussion above has nothing to do with the merit or lack thereofG > of episode 1 (or any other):  it is about your willingness to make an I > assumption about what the recent movie contained without knowing a damn G > thing about it, and in doing so presume to contradict someone who has - > seen it and knows what he's talking about.*  > > >   They also generally say that IV and V are the best, thoughJ > > I think someone in this thread favored IV and VI. I've read reviews ofG > > them. I've had personal experience with a coworker who saw the last   > > release 4 times in 24 hours! > > 9 > > Hardly zero. Go ahead, explain to me how that's zero.  > I > Just in case the above wasn't clear (you do seem to have major problems   > understanding simple English): > J > Since you haven't seen it, you don't have a clue whether the recent StarA > Wars movie made any 'veiled political references' or not:  your G > knowledge in that area is zero, zilch, nada.  So presuming to comment D > upon it is not only incompetent but presumptuous - especially whenJ > you're willing to contradict someone who *has* seen it, *does* know whatH > it contained, and has even observed (without participating) others who% > have seen it discussing this point.  > C > Yours is the same kind of faith-based 'intuition' that guides Our D > Fearless Leader:  ignorance doesn't slow him down at all, nor doesF > advice from people who know a great deal more than he does.  Stupid,G > pathetic, arrogant - there are a host of adjectives for behavior like D > that, and you'd do well to ponder them (not that I expect you to). >  > > C > > OK, you said "factual basis". Well, it depends what you mean by J > > "factual". Regardless, I'm certainly not basing my opinion on nothing.G > > It is *fact* that people held these opinions. It is *fact* that the H > > coworker saw the last release 4 times in 24 hours (or some similarly > > ridiculous rate).  > E > (The fact that you failed to understand what your problem was above J > doesn't in any way negate it:  it just makes you incompetent in the area > of comprehension as well.) >  > > C > > Anyway, if these veiled references are so good, let's see them!  > I > Yup - comprehension sure isn't your strong suit.  What part of the fact H > that my original comment stressed their *minimal* nature by comparisonF > with the material in Babylon 5 did you have difficulty wrapping what > passes for your mind around? > I > I don't have a transcript handy, nor the time or inclination to do your F > homework for you:  if you're interested, knock yourself out; if not,L > shut up, since you will continue not to know a damn thing about the issue. >  > ...  > 9 > >>> It is well known that people like to be right about I > >>> things and that they tend to sop up even the slightest evidence, or L > >>> what appears to be evidence, supporting their views and tend to ignore( > >>> evidence that refutes their views.I > >> Really?  Care to cite something specific, rather than spout yet more H > >> vacuous generalizations?  And having done so, care to cite specific > > " > > I already did in my last post. > H > I'm beginning to suspect that you're an incompetently-programmed 'bot:C > your responses make no sense.  I just challenged you to provide a J > credible citation for your psycho-babble above, and you claim already to4 > have done so in your last post?  Where, pray tell? >  > > L > >> evidence that this particular generalization (even if you can find someI > >> actual data to back it up rather than just what you've pulled out of 8 > >> your arse tonight) applies in the current instance? > > " > > The fact that Star Wars sucks. > 4 > Oh - you're still off in Never-Never Land:  I see. > $ > In words of fewer syllables, then: > G > 1.  This (again) *has nothing to do with Star Wars*:  it's about your / > drivel concerning personal motivations above.  > H > 2.  You're nothing like a credible authority for the psycho-babble you& > uttered, so you need to provide one. > J > 3.  Even if you do that, you then need to connect that generalization inF > some way to *my* behavior, by citing some instance which you believe > demonstrates that connection.  >  > >  > >> I'm not 'people', jerk: > > F > > Ah, we're getting back to name-calling. If your argument is really' > > sound, you don't need name-calling.  > E > I don't need it, moron:  it's purely a matter of choice on my part. I > Your skull is so dense and your exposition so incompetent that anything  > less seems inadequate. > & >   You had a good point against KerryB > > recently about that article he posted, and you didn't need the/ > > name-calling. But you seem to need it here!  > I > Kerry is not usually stupid, just intellectually dishonest.  I strongly J > suspect the reverse in your case, and in the past have found that reason2 > alone is utterly inadequate in dealing with you. > C > Of course, it's not clear that stronger phrasing will be any more = > effective, either.  But I do consider it suitable under the I > circumstances, since I firmly believe that incompetents either ought to  > wise up or shut up.  >  > ...  > 2 > >> I'm an individual.  In case you never had theF > >> benefit of formal education in statistics, they apply only to theE > >> average behavior of groups, not to specific individuals in them.  > > D > > Oh, come on. Why do you make it so easy? Insurance companies use9 > > statistics to set rates FOR INDIVIDUALS ALL THE TIME.  > H > Your train of thought is so completely off its rails that I don't knowG > where to start.  Once again, this is not about what you seem to think J > it's about:  it's about your psycho-babble (which, were you to find someI > supporting reference for it, would inevitably turn out to be based upon G > statistics) and the lack of any direct applicability to an individual I > (statistical observations of anything less than near-absolute certainty J > may suggest *explanations* for behavior, but only after the behavior hasE > actually been observed - they cannot be used as *evidence* that the  > behavior is occurring).  > F > But I seriously doubt that you can even begin to understand what I'mI > talking about here - so once again, I'll suggest that if you can't wise I > up, it would be prudent to shut up before making an even bigger fool of H > yourself (at least I *hope* that anyone else who might be bothering toH > follow this has a clue what the issue is, and how far off in the weeds > you are).  >  > ...  > J > >> It's the willingness to generalize incompetently that's your problem,D > >> idiot - not whether you throw in a mealy-mouthed qualification. > >  > > Ah, more name-calling. > H > And how well-deserved it was.  I had forgotten that I had *explicitly*D > called attention to the core of the issue already (just above, andF > somewhat farther above - *very* clearly*), and that you still plowed > incompetently on afterward.  > H > 'Idiot' is looking more and more applicable all the time:  it's almostI > as if you don't make any effort to understand what you're responding to I > (again, like an incompetently-programmed 'bot):  otherwise, you'd never M > have gone around this yet again after I addressed it so directly last time.  >  > ...  > M > >>>>>>> I once went to a talk by Harlan Ellison and he stunned the audience 1 > >>>>>>> into silence by calling Star Wars crap. O > >>>>>> You have to take that statement in the context of the fact that Harlan N > >>>>>> considers himself to be a Serious Writer, rather than an entertainer.
 > >>>>> [...]  > >>>>>>> He was right. P > >>>>>> No:  Harlan is not always right, just always *certain* - which can have- > >>>>>> a strong influence on the weak mind. K > >>>>> Hmmm. Check you're reading skills. I didn't say "always". Check it. N > >>>> No, you didn't.  And therefore, of course, I in no way claimed that you2 > >>>> did:  check your own reading skills, idiot.8 > >>> Let's look at that again in slow motion, shall we? > >>>  > >>>     Me: He was right. . > >>>     You: No: Harlan is not always right. > >>> K > >>>> I simply claimed that Harlan was wrong, despite (characteristically) H > >>>> being unequivocal in his expression (and then made a reference toL > >>>> suggest why you might have found his assertion credible and worthy of > >>>> citation). 0 > >>> The "No" is clearly refuting my statement,, > >> Well, at least you got that part right. > >>  > >>   the colon in this contextF > >>> means "introduces a clause or phrase that explains, illustrates,E > >>> amplifies, or restates what has gone before" [Webster Collegate D > >>> dictionary, 9th edition] which means my interpretation is more% > >>> consistent with what you wrote. I > >> Not at all:  as I already explained, it 'amplified' my refutation by I > >> serving up a possible explanation for why you felt that he was right  > > G > > Well, not quite. Amplified would be something like "very right" vs. % > > "right". That is "amplification".  > I > We're not talking about electronics, moron:  we're talking about normal G > English usage.  You seem to have access to a dictionary:  look up the  > word 'amplify' this time.  > J > I really don't like to leave things unfinished, even absurd interchangesE > like this one.  But you are so utterly incompetent in understanding H > English and following logic that the hope of any progress seems nil (IJ > already had better uses for my time, but, as I explained elsewhere, felt, > some obligation to try to see it through). > B > You could always surprise me by buckling down and going over theH > material that already exists until you get a clue, I suppose.  But I'mJ > not holding my breath, and in the absence of evidence of not only effortC > but some degree of actual success in this on your part I won't be  > responding again.  >  > - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:02:40 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week C Message-ID: <1161129760.525137.119650@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > AEF wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > >> AEF wrote:  >  > ...  > - > >>   You, OTOH, concentrate on off-topic or  > >>> somewhat-off-topic stuffF > >> Oh, really?  I guess VMS's (and its platform's) viability and theK > >> credibility of its vendor must not qualify as 'on-topic' in your book,  > > J > > Well, yes and no. I always thought the primary purpose of cov was as a > > technical group. > G > Even if that were the case (which may have been considerably more the H > case in the past, when technical issues were more the main concerns ofJ > VMS users), 'primary purpose' in no way equals '*sole* purpose' - thoughG > given your difficulties comprehending both language and logic, it may = > take a while for you to wrap your head around that concept.  >  > ...  > K > >> despite the fact that they're arguably of far more significance to the 6 > >> readers here than most of your own contributions. > > , > > Significance to what YOU find important. > H > Well, if a serious VMS user does *not* consider the very real questionE > of its continued viability 'important', I'd say they have a serious H > perceptual problem.  And the amount of discussion devoted to preciselyB > that topic here by a large number of individuals suggests that aE > significant percentage of the active participants here *do* in fact  > consider it important.  2 And of what help have you been to VMS's viability?  F Someone who has an immediate problem with VMS isn't interested in thatD moment about long term concerns. I help them with that. You claim toG help with the longer term viability issues. What's the big deal? Again, @ you misse my point. I don't have time to regergitate it for you.   > G > But I hardly try to impose my values in that area on anyone else:  if    LOL!  F > they're interested in such discussion, fine; if not, that's fine tooF > (though I suspect they might pay a price for such a head-in-the-sandD > attitude down the road, unless they've *already* given up and madeB > migration plans, in which case the prospects for VMS's continuedF > viability would indeed not be significant to them and I could easily; > understand why they'd have no interest in discussing it).   D And what would you have them do about VMS's long term viability? You; keep saying how horrible Integrity is and how seductive the @ alternatives to VMS are. Explain how this helps VMS's viability?   > G > By contrast, you seem to be suggesting that discussion of things that F > *you* don't happen to consider important is somehow dubious.  And ofG > course you're welcome to that opinion - just don't expect any respect 	 > for it.  >   >   And why should anyone listen > > to you anyway? > J > Possibly because they value knowledge above ignorance?  Of course if you3 > don't, you may find that difficult to understand.   5 Like I said, why should anyone listen to you, anyway?    > H > Aside from taking care to get my immediate facts straight, I also haveI > an excellent track record of accurate long-term insights into issues of E > significance.  The head-in-the-sand crowd may find that annoying, I I > suppose - but I couldn't care less (nor do I care whether they listen).   - So that's why you berate them so much. Right.    > & > > And even if you're right, so what? > F > Aside from my own personal satisfaction in being a competent analystE > across a fairly wide range of activities, others often seem to find D > competent analysis and projections about the near- and medium-termF > future useful (in fact, many people and corporations pay significantJ > amounts of money to professionals in the hope of gaining such insights).   Nobody likes a gloater.    > B > Of course, those with their eyes firmly glued to the square footG > immediately in front of their toes may not find that interesting, and ? > apparently prefer to bump into things as they stumble around.  >  >   Someone who needs G > > techincal help with a VMS problem isn't terribly insterested in the H > > Curly and Carly show, or how fast this chip is, or how hot that chip > > runs, and such.  > J > Yup - that's the kind of head-down, short-term vision that I expect fromH > you.  Not that immediate problems are unimportant, of course:  they'reC > just not *all* that's important, and often not even what's *most* F > important (much as they may seem that way to the terminally myopic).  ? And just what should they do about it and how will it help VMS?    > ; >   It seems to me that you're making generalizations based  > > on not much. > F > When you don't consider something important in the first place, yourI > resulting ignorance makes statements like the above seem reasonable.  A : > bit circular, that - but that's the way of the clueless.  G I didn't say it wasn't important. I said someone looking for help is at 8 that moment primarily interested in solving his problem.   You're really nitpicking here.   >  > ...  >  > 1 > >>   and I don't recall you helping anyone with . > >>> real VMS problems, or at least not much.L > >> Perhaps you just haven't read enough - funny how you just suggested theM > >> same of me, despite my far less general comment about the nature of your  > >> contributions here. > >  > > Which general comment? > E > My comment to the effect that your analysis was 'often' incompetent B > (which I expanded upon elsewhere, so need not do so again here). > H > The point being that while neither of us has likely read anything likeI > all of the other's posts, I did not generalize about anything like *all D > or almost all* of your posts, as you did above.  Just more typicalD > sloppiness on your part (a subject which I also expanded upon in a$ > general sense in that other post).    F And how is using the word "typical" not generalizing about all or most of my posts?   >  > ...  > H >   >>>>> I still find it hard to take Star Wars seriously. No, I didn't	 > see all M > >>>>> 6 movies (I saw the first (last) three), but I've read about them and G > >>>>> heard about them and I've decided I'm not missing much. I think + > >>>>> "utterly ignorant" is a bit strong. O > >>>> No, but perhaps I could have quoted a bit more of your drivel to make it ' > >>>> clearer what I was referring to:  > >>>>N > >>>> "Veiled references in Star Wars? I haven't seen the more recent ones (IM > >>>> thru III), but any "veiled references" were probably just you thinking 3 > >>>> about such things while watching the movie."  > >>>>L > >>>> So you made a to all appearances completely baseless assumption aboutL > >>>> the content of a film about which you were, AFAICT, truly and utterly> > >>>> ignorant at the applicable level of detail.  Clear now? > >>> I said "probably".F > >> So what?  This hardly negates your willingness to generalize with# > >> absolutely zero factual basis.  > > E > > Nonsense. Even people who LIKE Star Wars admit episode one sucked  > > donkey kong. > H > Do you have to work hard at being an idiot, or does it come naturally? > H > *The discussion above has nothing to do with the merit or lack thereofG > of episode 1 (or any other):  it is about your willingness to make an I > assumption about what the recent movie contained without knowing a damn G > thing about it, and in doing so presume to contradict someone who has - > seen it and knows what he's talking about.*   G I don't have first hand knowledge, I'll admit that. I have enogh second E hand knowledge to form an opinion. If you don't like, that's too bad.    > > >   They also generally say that IV and V are the best, thoughJ > > I think someone in this thread favored IV and VI. I've read reviews ofG > > them. I've had personal experience with a coworker who saw the last   > > release 4 times in 24 hours! > > 9 > > Hardly zero. Go ahead, explain to me how that's zero.  > I > Just in case the above wasn't clear (you do seem to have major problems   > understanding simple English): > J > Since you haven't seen it, you don't have a clue whether the recent StarA > Wars movie made any 'veiled political references' or not:  your G > knowledge in that area is zero, zilch, nada.  So presuming to comment D > upon it is not only incompetent but presumptuous - especially whenJ > you're willing to contradict someone who *has* seen it, *does* know whatH > it contained, and has even observed (without participating) others who% > have seen it discussing this point.    Put up or shut up!   > C > Yours is the same kind of faith-based 'intuition' that guides Our D > Fearless Leader:  ignorance doesn't slow him down at all, nor doesF > advice from people who know a great deal more than he does.  Stupid,G > pathetic, arrogant - there are a host of adjectives for behavior like D > that, and you'd do well to ponder them (not that I expect you to).   LOL!   >  > > C > > OK, you said "factual basis". Well, it depends what you mean by J > > "factual". Regardless, I'm certainly not basing my opinion on nothing.G > > It is *fact* that people held these opinions. It is *fact* that the H > > coworker saw the last release 4 times in 24 hours (or some similarly > > ridiculous rate).  > E > (The fact that you failed to understand what your problem was above J > doesn't in any way negate it:  it just makes you incompetent in the area > of comprehension as well.)   LOL!  G I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your stupid post. It's so F predictable I should save it for when I have insomnia. It's good for aB laugh a first, but quickly gets tired. I've got far more important; things to do than nitpick with you as you try to save face.   % Your back in the plonk box, Mr. Todd!    [...]   1 Mr. Todd is a Star Wars fan. Who'd have thunk it.    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:42:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> = Subject: Re: Heads up: La Fiorina's book coming out next week , Message-ID: <45358669.8230BCB0@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:H > Someone who has an immediate problem with VMS isn't interested in thatF > moment about long term concerns. I help them with that. You claim toB > help with the longer term viability issues. What's the big deal?  E The long term growth of VMS affects us all. It is only through growth C that the owner of VMS will continue to fund development. It is only @ through growth and success that ISVs will gain interest in VMS.   D Does that affect you and me ? You bet. VMS may have a most excellent> kernel, but that is of no use to any users. What is of use areH APPLICATIONS. Whether they are provided by the owner of VMS (such as theH TPU editor, undevelopped since last century) or by 3rd parties  (Oracle,. SAP (not on VMS) etc etc. That is what counts.  D But for ~modern~ applications to exsit on VMS, the owner of VMS must9 show signs that motivate ISVs to port their wares to VMS.   E Remember that VMS had gone thorugh a period of Palmer telling ISVs to D STOP porting to VMS, then the confusion dure to Compaq takeover, the@ nearly mortal wounding because of Alpha genocide, and now the HPG destroying the high quality support organisation that had made VMS such ( a great asset to its owners in the past.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:45:27 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> Subject: In a box solutions C Message-ID: <1161125127.203157.185890@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   G No affordable cluster in a box packaged solution for VMS customers from 2 HP; that would have been too likely to spur sales.  F However Sun now has a datacenter in a box.  Somewhat (!) bigger box (a3 shipping container) but the concept is pretty neat.   B http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1700AP_Sun_Data_Center.html   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:38:00 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com- Subject: Integer number with no leading zeros A Message-ID: <1161146279.959442.46640@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   C Can you tell me how extract leading zeros from a specified number ?   	 $ @verify  Please enter number:  003456 integer number is 3456 $   # (I'm confuse with f$fao lexical...)    Regards.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:10:46 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com 1 Subject: Re: Integer number with no leading zeros C Message-ID: <1161148246.887211.130460@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: E > Can you tell me how extract leading zeros from a specified number ?  >  > $ @verify  > Please enter number:  003456 > integer number is 3456 > $   G I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do.  The procedure you C have appears to extract the number correctly, even with the leading 2 zeros.  Are you wanting something to product this:  
 $ @show_zeros  Please enter number: 003456  Leading zeros: 00  $   C Or are you wanting an example procedure that duplicates the @verify 
 procedure?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:17:30 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> 1 Subject: Re: Integer number with no leading zeros 5 Message-ID: <slrnejbe7a.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   t In article <1161148246.887211.130460@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, davidc@montagar.com <davidc@montagar.com> wrote:! > apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: F >> Can you tell me how extract leading zeros from a specified number ? >> >> $ @verify >> Please enter number:  003456  >> integer number is 3456  >> $ > I > I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do.  The procedure you E > have appears to extract the number correctly, even with the leading 4 > zeros.  Are you wanting something to product this: >  > $ @show_zeros  > Please enter number: 003456  > Leading zeros: 00  > $   C I have a feeling English is not his first language, and that he may A actually have meant to ask 'How do you remove any leading zeros?'   F Extract means to take something out of something existing, so he seemsH to be asking how to take leading zeros out of the entered number. Not to6 use the extracted leading zeros but to eliminate them.  F Supported by his 'integer number is XXXX' output which I think is what- he wants the script to compute and print out.   D Wonder if it's something F$FAO could handle? Though I'm more used to. adding leading zeros than to stripping them...   -Dan   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:39:27 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)1 Subject: Re: Integer number with no leading zeros 2 Message-ID: <06101800392720_2020028F@antinode.org>   From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com  E > Can you tell me how extract leading zeros from a specified number ?  >  > $ @verify  > Please enter number:  003456 > integer number is 3456 > $  > % > (I'm confuse with f$fao lexical...)    alp $ type VERIFY.COM 8 $ read /prompt = "Please enter number: " sys$command ans $ x = f$integer( ans) = $ write sys$output f$fao( ">!8ZW<   >!8UW<   >!UW<", x, x, x)    alp $ @ verify.com Please enter number: 003456   >00003456<   >    3456<   >3456<  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:05:31 -0700 From: richard.hsia@gmail.comA Subject: Re: Lantronix Terminal Server instead of Decserver 900 ? C Message-ID: <1161144331.666900.275300@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Shahin Yaz wrote:  > Schroeder, AJ wrote: > > Shahin Yaz wrote: K > > > Can a Lantronix Terminal Server be used instead of a Descerver 900 to I > > > provide remote console mgmt for a Alpha 4100 VMS 7.1-2 system ?  It K > > > also needs to have flash load memory, as I understand. Does Lantronix J > > > support Dec Alphas and would it take the same effort to configure as > > > the Descerver ?  > > > Thanks in advance  > > O > > FWIW, we use Lantronix terminal servers here with VAXen and Alphas, network  > > gear, SANs, etc. > > N > > The only real issue it getting the pinouts correct. I don't know the exactP > > pinouts, however, I do know that the Lantronix uses dofferent grounding pins > > than our DS700s. > >  > > AJ > ! > Thanks very much for your help,  > Shahin  A I don't know if the pinout is correct too. Maybe you can find the C pinout then we can find a way. BTW, there are still many brands can G help you if you cannot use Lantronix well. Such as Digi, Raritan, Moxa, F Perle, or Cyclades all can help you. They are all also very popular in
 the world.   ~Richard   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:33:17 GMT & From: "PEN" <paul.nunez.nosp@m.hp.com>* Subject: Re: ODS LEVEL 5 and Pathwork v6.11 Message-ID: <1eaZg.1223$Xy5.563@news.cpqcorp.net>    Hi MB,  % <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message  < news:1161090449.291271.158310@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...1 > Using Pathworks V6.1 with a ods-5 enabled disk. % > If i create a directory like this:-  >  > $ set def disk$test:[test] > $ creatre/dir F > [.AVERYLONGDIRECTORYNAMEWHICHHASNOTHINGTODOWITHANYTHINGINPARTICULAR] > ? > and try and view the share from my Windows PC I can't see it.  > 5 > That maxium number of letters still is format 39:39 E >                                                                   | H > 123456789012345678901234567890123456789.012345678901234567890__2EWRI;1 >  > Any ideas? > MB >   D PATHWORKS V6.1 doesn't support EFS (long) filenames and other ods-5 K features.  It will still decode any character which is not compatible with  F ODS-2.    You can upgrade to Advanced Server for OpenVMS to get ODS-5 @ support.  The new v7.3B kit is available on the itrc ftp server  ftp.itrc.hp.com...   HTH,   Paul     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:17:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: OT: Former Compaq board member cleared of charges, Message-ID: <4535B8BC.7315EF03@teksavvy.com>  F Ken Lay, former Compaq board member, had his "guilty verdict" formerly? dropped because his forced stay at a cemetary prevents him from / exercising his right to appeal his conviction.    H As a result, the government cannot seize any of his assets to distributeE to shareholders/creditors of another company he destroyed (Enron) and ! his Wife gets to keep her riches.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:43:23 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Outsourcing of VMS , Message-ID: <4534fa1c$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:4pkad6Fibi3mU1@individual.net...    > J > Something about horses and barndoors comes to mind.  People like Guy andK > Hoff are gone.  If it is decided that a mistake was made, who do you hire 6 > to replace them?  (Rhetorical question, you can't!!) >   K I'm still upset about Rod Gamache going to Microsoft, and Mike Harvey going H to Oracle...  but life, as they say, goes on.  There are still plenty ofK old-timers (as well as some youngsters) around - both in the US and abroad. J Those who read/write in c.o.v. are a small minority of VMS engineers - andK some of the best you've probably never heard of their names unless you read  the source listings.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:40:40 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com % Subject: Re: Question about terminals , Message-ID: <eh34io01hnp@enews1.newsguy.com>  ; Island Computers, D B Turner <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote: . > Does anyone think this might be of interest?  I Speaking as a hobbyist, yes, if the feature set and price is right.  I've K actually been looking to pick up a VT525 one of these days to replace oneof I my VT420's.  A terminal is my preferred method of interacting with my VMS L systems, however, due to a lack of space for a VT420, the only one I'm usingK right now functions as a console for my Alpha, VAX, and an x86 Unix box(the L last two require plugging the right MMJ cable to the terminal).  I also have: a second VT420 with an LA75 attached that is on my PDP-11.  % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?   G At home I use them on Alpha, VAX, PDP-11, Sun and x86 systems as system H consoles.  I also use them on Alpha, VAX, PDP-11, PDP-10 (emulated) as aD user when I can.  As an alternative I use a xterm remapped to have a properly functioning keypad.  F At work we use them on various systems as consoles, though the use hasD dropped to almost nothing, and are really only used in emergencies. J Something like this would be great for a "crash cart", though I doubt that. my group at least would be willing to buy any.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:14:15 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals , Message-ID: <45352B86.F9D936BD@teksavvy.com>  % "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote:  > C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably   G I use a real VT 220 as console, but it only shows output from one node. = replacing it with an LCD display would save electricity/heat.   A Having a 19" display with 4 sessions, one in each quadrant of the C display , 4 serial ports and one keyboard would be more interesting  though.   G But as a console, even better would be more of a X terminal hybrid with B serial ports in the back, but local logging of data and ability to$ scroll up/down the multiple windows.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:55:35 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals : Message-ID: <Ru-dnZ4TypXO3qjYnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com>  # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote:   C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?  >  >  >   F At my last job we used exactly two dumb terminals!  One served as the B console for a Cisco router and the other as a console for a Cisco  Catalyst 6500 switch!   C Most users had a "netstation" that booted a Citrix client from the  D network.  They ran terminal emulation software to talk to the order C entry application on a VMS cluster.  These replaced dozens of dumb  3 terminals, DECservers and brand-X terminal servers.   I I'd say that the day of the dumb terminal has come and gone.  There will  H be a few needed for years yet but the days of a VTxxx terminal on every $ desk are long gone and not mourned!!   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:18:34 -0700" From: "kczwei" <kaycee@kaycee.net>% Subject: Re: Question about terminals B Message-ID: <1161127114.159668.10610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably . > Does anyone think this might be of interest?  E We have a few hundred installed at clients as cash registers and data G entry.  We have installed 25+ new in the past 12 months.  We use either E VT420's with NEW tubes and Lantronix UDS10 1 port terminal servers or D thin clients with Powerterm emulator.  In the past few years we haveD replaced 50+ VT's with thin clients and 12" to 19"  LCD's.  Our mostG requested 'CASH REGISTER' is a 15" LCD and IGEL thin client.  LCD's are A commodities and the good thin clients run $175US - $250US with no  browser, just powerterm.F They are linux based thin clients with Power term, so they are still aE little harder to support than a VT.  We have to restrict shell access @ and config access to keep people working instead of browsing the	 internet. C But the thin clients are a TON easier to support than a windows box G with emulator, and they are very easy to convince the client to upgrade 0 from a VT device, just because of the color LCD.  D If the price could be kept as low as the thin clients we could use aF few hundred and a small but steady supply after that.  Don't forget toD get the bi-directional serial port correct....that kills many of the thin clients we test.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:09:45 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals . Message-ID: <mddlknebfae.fsf@panix5.panix.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com writes:   = > Island Computers, D B Turner <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:   / >> Does anyone think this might be of interest?   E > Speaking as a hobbyist, yes, if the feature set and price is right.    I agree with Zane.  & >> Do people use dumb terminals still?N >> If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other
 >> brands?  I > At home I use them on Alpha, VAX, PDP-11, Sun and x86 systems as system J > consoles.  I also use them on Alpha, VAX, PDP-11, PDP-10 (emulated) as aF > user when I can.  As an alternative I use a xterm remapped to have a > properly functioning keypad.  I I'd certainly consider them as consoles on minis that don't need logging.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:56:54 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals 9 Message-ID: <NdKdnSC4E-QkGqjYnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@libcom.com>   # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully > % > Do people use dumb terminals still? M > If so, how any of y'all are currently using them on Alpha systems and other 	 > brands?  >  >  >   E As mentioned by a few others, what you're talking about is a VT-525.  H Nice product, could use more sessions, so it could be used as a console @ for more than 4 or 8 computers.  I forget how many sessions are H supported (I think 8), but it has only 2 (or maybe 3) serial ports.  To H use it as a console for many computers the number of serial ports would  need to be addressed.   1 Boundless still sells them.  Don't know how much.   D As for demand, I cannot know what some users require.  However, one E issues I'd have is for other than a console, the terminal requires a  F serial line, and that then requires terminal servers.  I'd think that I being able to hook directly to the network would be desirable.  Possibly  K having the functionality of a terminal server port imbeded in the terminal.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:31:55 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> % Subject: Re: Question about terminals 3 Message-ID: <slrnejbbhr.hol.rivie@stench.no.domain>   J On 2006-10-17, Island Computers, D B Turner <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:C > We are looking into the possibility of building LCD dumb terminal  > interfaces - 15" probably  > . > Does anyone think this might be of interest? > D > What we would actually do is provide a "little black box" with PS2( > interface, VGA style interface and DB9E > The serial port would connect to the Terminal server or system etc. L > We would develop it on the basis that LK411/461/463/464 is supported fully  H At our site, each system has a console terminal. However, we rely on theF printer pass-through to keep a hardcopy record of console traffic; any+ terminal we buy would have to support that.  --  
 roger ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 09:40:34 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: Request for kit, Message-ID: <D7wQvvPTMzQS@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > Cluster-Karl wrote:  >>  D >> DCPS V2.5 (Alpha) 1st occurrence was on the December 2005 CD set. > E > It is also on the latest 8.3 distribution, although the 2.5 release < > notes do not mention 8.3 as a valid version to run it on ! >  > For alpha:  6.2 - 7.3-2 - 8.2  > For VAX:    5.5-2 - 6.2 - 7.3  > G > I find it fascinating that the DCPS folsk have kept up development on G > VAX to a point where they see the money in even supporting 5.5-2.   I B > guess that if some old 5.5-2 VAX uses HP toner cartridges in itsL > printers, HP sees a justification to continue to develop DCPS for VAX !!!!  I DCPS is common code across for the three implementations of VMS, so there F is relatively little extra work involved in producing the VAX variant.  ; (Not speaking for Paul, who may chime in here a bit later).    --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:45:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Request for kit, Message-ID: <453532C9.C5737983@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brooks wrote: K > DCPS is common code across for the three implementations of VMS, so there H > is relatively little extra work involved in producing the VAX variant.  C But still interesting that they go back to 5.5-2 for support of the F latest version of DCPS. The fact that they put it in the release notesG means that they have had formal testing (akaL got manager permission to F deploy resources for a few hours to test DCPS on a 5.5-2 system.  (andF they probably had to link it on 5.5-2 to ensure it woudl work on those! shareable images and later ones).   = > (Not speaking for Paul, who may chime in here a bit later).   B For all we know, he might be gone. There really needs to be a liveG inventory of VMS engineers, with littel alarms and red flags that sound ( when one leaves so we can keep track ;-)   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:05:08 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: Request for kit, Message-ID: <eh3gi401gt1@enews3.newsguy.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  E > But still interesting that they go back to 5.5-2 for support of the H > latest version of DCPS. The fact that they put it in the release notesI > means that they have had formal testing (akaL got manager permission to H > deploy resources for a few hours to test DCPS on a 5.5-2 system.  (andH > they probably had to link it on 5.5-2 to ensure it woudl work on those# > shareable images and later ones).   G Since it was mentioned the other day that a sizable percentage of VAXen G still being used in production environments are running 5.5-2, it seems G quite reasonable that DCPS supports 5.5-2.  While the computer hardware K might just keep working, printers are less likely to, especially if heavily F used, and are likely to be updated to newer hardware far more often.    D > For all we know, he might be gone. There really needs to be a liveI > inventory of VMS engineers, with littel alarms and red flags that sound * > when one leaves so we can keep track ;-)  K Sadly, I think you're right about this.  I've been reading the recent posts L about the outsourcing of support and the workforce reductions with more than a little trepidation.      		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:38:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: US military gives HP big contracts , Message-ID: <45354D48.83CD3F19@teksavvy.com>  G The U.S. Defense Information Systems Agency, a combat support agency of G the Department of Defense that handles IT and communications functions, 9 has awarded two eight-year utility-computing contracts to G Hewlett-Packard. These contracts, which have a ceiling of $440 million, P give HP the task of building computer infrastructures for 17 of DISA's locations around the world.   G One of the contracts, capped at $250 million, involves the construction ? of HP-UX environments; the other is a $190 million contract for G Microsoft's Windows, Red Hat's Enterprise Linux and Novell's SUSE Linux H operating systems. HP's own Integrity and ProLiant servers will be used.B Despite this partnership with the U.S. government, HP neverthelessQ recently underwent congressional hearings regarding its information leak scandal.    -----------------------     H Does anyone know if any of those systems will be replacing VMS systems ?D Is HP tellling such key customers that VMS is on its way out ? (like Palmer did back in 1990s) ?    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 14:21:39 -0700# From: "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com>  Subject: VAX 4000 Error Codes C Message-ID: <1161120099.002634.296520@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E Hi all.  I have just learned that an old VAX 4000/60 here at work (it G isn't mine) stopped operating correctly following a planned outage.  It @ boots but the old PCFS (Pathworks) server fails to load (with anG error).  I don't have the hardware manuals myself and cannot accurately G decode the message (below).  I had some spare memory and swapped it out F but it didn't help.  I'm now busy working to move the workload of thisG machine to an AlphaServer to get things back online for them but it may G take a while.  It would be nice to put a band-aide on the VAX until the  other is ready...   @ Does anyone have a guess as to what what component failure would generate this error?  ) Thanks for any insight that you may have.  Bobby     . ******************************* ENTRY    2045. ******************************* F  ERROR SEQUENCE 159.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 17-OCT-2006 16:37:12.72                            SYS_TYPE 04010002  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:01:42 F  SCS NODE: XRBL01                                              VAX/VMS V5.5-1  :  MACHINE CHECK  KA460  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 0.1      STACK FRAME          FAULT CODE      00000005 A                                        MACHINE CHECK FAULT CODE =  0005(X) B                                        _CPU DETECTED FPA RESULT PE<                                        VAX RESTART BIT CLEAR        VADDR           0002EAF4 6                                        VIRTUAL ADDRESS        VIBA            00030760 ?                                        VIRTUAL IBOX ADR OF MBOX  PREFETCH        SISR/ICCS       00400000 =                                        INTERVAL TIMER ENABLED         INTERNAL STATE  08036001 0                                        RN = 1(X)5                                        OPCODE = ADDD2 F                                        EBOX DATA LEN = QUAD/D_/G_FLOAT9                                        ACCESS TYPE = READ 7                                        DELTA PC = 08(X)         SC              00000000         PC              00030760         ERROR PSL       03C00000 E                                        INTERRUPT PRIORITY LEVEL = 00. ;                                        PREVIOUS MODE = USER :                                        CURRENT MODE = USER<                                        FIRST PART DONE CLEAR/  ******************************* ENTRY    2048.  ******************************* F  ERROR SEQUENCE 162.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 17-OCT-2006 16:39:15.10                            SYS_TYPE 04010002  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:03:44 F  SCS NODE: XRBL01                                              VAX/VMS V5.5-1  :  MACHINE CHECK  KA460  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 0.1      STACK FRAME          FAULT CODE      00000005 A                                        MACHINE CHECK FAULT CODE =  0005(X) B                                        _CPU DETECTED FPA RESULT PE<                                        VAX RESTART BIT CLEAR        VADDR           007BBF80 6                                        VIRTUAL ADDRESS        VIBA            007BC7D4 ?                                        VIRTUAL IBOX ADR OF MBOX  PREFETCH        SISR/ICCS       00400000 =                                        INTERVAL TIMER ENABLED         INTERNAL STATE  07036602 0                                        RN = 2(X)5                                        OPCODE = DIVD2 F                                        EBOX DATA LEN = QUAD/D_/G_FLOAT9                                        ACCESS TYPE = READ 7                                        DELTA PC = 07(X)         SC              04000000         PC              007BC7D2         ERROR PSL       03C00000 E                                        INTERRUPT PRIORITY LEVEL = 00. ;                                        PREVIOUS MODE = USER :                                        CURRENT MODE = USER<                                        FIRST PART DONE CLEARX ****************************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:27:53 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: VAX 4000 Error Codes , Message-ID: <45354ACE.496D07B8@teksavvy.com>   Bobby wrote: > G > Hi all.  I have just learned that an old VAX 4000/60 here at work (it I > isn't mine) stopped operating correctly following a planned outage.  It B > boots but the old PCFS (Pathworks) server fails to load (with an	 > error).   F Consider the possibility that the Pathworks executabel fuiles might be2 corrupted and contain some really bad instruction.  E Can you boot succesfully all the way and get stabel amchine if you do  not start that software ?   7 Have you tried to ANA/IMAGE the Pathworks executables ?   ; ANA/DISK/REPAIR of the system disk woudl also be good idea.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:01:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)3 Message-ID: <rBvj7GL0BmaE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <1161104725.339051.177650@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:q >> In article <1161095465.969883.236720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> writes:  >>L >> > In the past when I complained about doc problems the reason was usuallyJ >> > due to switching from the DEC tools and formatting to the HP standardI >> > tools and formatting.  It would not surprise me at all if thats what  >> > happened here.  >>> >> In my experience, any problem is in the opposite direction.B >> I am unaware of DEC Document producing PDF, so any DEC DocumentB >> publication to PDF must be done by creating Postscript and then5 >> converting to PDF using a tool like Adobe Acrobat.  >>G >> Using Postscript as an intermediate language removes any possibility E >> of passing through links found in the Bookreader and HTML versions  >> of the same document.  F > With all due respect, I must disagree. The interface used to produceH > PDF bookmarks is the pdfmark operator, which is a PostScript extension3 > supported by Adobe Acrobat for just this purpose.  > B > I have used it quite a few times to produce PDF bookmarks within5 > reports written from applications using PostScript.  > H > It is quite (regrettably) plausible that the bookmarking functionality/ > was lost in the transition from VAX Document.   B So how do you cause DEC Document to produce that operator based on normal SDML input ?   A Does it work with Adobe Acrobat Distiller V2.1 (for compatibility   with older PostScript viewers) ?  A Can you give an example of a piece of VMS documentation that used ' this method, as proof of the principle.  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:32:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks), Message-ID: <45352FE5.E0F8535A@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > Using Postscript as an intermediate language removes any possibilityD > of passing through links found in the Bookreader and HTML versions > of the same document.    Wrong.  F The Acrobat software parses postscript code to generate PDF. You embed@ special operators in the potscript code to create the bookmarks.   example:  6 %*** Define the pdfmark operator to noop for printers.0 %*** (used to generate PDF version by DISTILLER. systemdict /pdfmark known not >         {userdict /pdfmark systemdict /cleartomark get put} if   %%BeginSetup   % CATALOG info% [       /Author (Jean-Franois Mezei) &         /Creator (ALL-IN-1 3.1 on VMS)!         /Title (Chocolate roster) ;         /Keywords (Chocolate, ROSTER, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET)  /DOCINFO pdfmark  4 % Default appearance when opened with Acrobat reader; % set to show bookmarks, with zoom level to show full page.  % starts by showing page 1     [       /PageMode /UseOutlines /DOCVIEW pdfmark  / [       /CropBox [ 0 0 350 390 ] /PAGES pdfmark       * In the relevant portion of the postscript:   [ /Dest /MOUSSE /DEST pdfmark   E The above places a marker for a destination to go to. (aka: where the : code that generates the "Chocolate Mousse" recipe output).    $ and at the bottom of the postscript:  + %% Now, generate the actual bookmarks index    % Index by member's name  -  [ /Count -3 /Title (BY FLAVOUR) /OUT pdfmark 5    [ /Dest /BABA   /Title (Baba au Rhum) /OUT pdfmark 9    [ /Dest /MOUSSE /Title (Chocolate Mousse) /OUT pdfmark 8    [ /Dest /QUICHE /Title (Quiche Lorainne) /OUT pdfmark    .  [ /Count -3 /Title (BY Calories) /OUT pdfmark8    [ /Dest /QUICHE /Title (Quiche Lorainne) /OUT pdfmark5    [ /Dest /BABA   /Title (Baba au Rhum) /OUT pdfmark 9    [ /Dest /MOUSSE /Title (Chocolate Mousse) /OUT pdfmark     G There are more commands, and ways to make words clickable within a page 8 to take you directly to another bookmark.  But the stuff   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:41:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks), Message-ID: <453531EB.14310F01@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:D > So how do you cause DEC Document to produce that operator based on > normal SDML input ?     G Remember that VAX document has the abolity to produce BOOKREADER format D files. And those have the same concept of bookemarks and the index. G (and also knows how to build a "paper" index at the end of your printed G document as well as a table of contents). So DEC DOCUMENT has the logic $ in it to generate generic bookmarks.  B And since many of the PDF version of VMS documentstion has the PDFA bookmarks, one can only assume that there is/was a way to get DEC H Documeht to generate postscript which is then interpreted by acrobat and0 incorprates the full bookmarking functionlality.  E Perhaps HP, as a microsoft subsidiary, has stopped using real Acrobat D products and is instead using some cheap PDF converter which doesn't know about bookmarks.   F But as usesrs of the documentation, the PDF documents must really have. the index/bookmarks for them to be of any use.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:18:22 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)+ Message-ID: <4pksebFj5revU1@individual.net>   - On 2006-10-17 20:01, "Larry Kilgallen" wrote:    > [...]  > C > Can you give an example of a piece of VMS documentation that used ) > this method, as proof of the principle.   E >From the "HP OpenVMS System Manager's Manual, Volume 1: Essentials", ; AA-PV5MH-TK.PDF (OpenVMS 7.3-2 Documentation CD) meta data:   + | Producer: Acrobat Distiller 5.0 (Windows) $ | CreationDate: 2003-10-16T08:09:01Z | Creator: FrameMaker 6.0  | Title: AA-PV5MH-TK.book   ( And from the "document properties" page:    | PDF version: 1,3 (Acrobat 4,x)  D That document has bookmarks included and only the top level is being? displayed when the document is opened. (Most chapter titles are 8 preceeded with a "[+]" for further levels of bookmarks.)   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:47:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: VMS documentation in PDF format (lack of bookmarks)3 Message-ID: <dsvztaokH6KU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <4pksebFj5revU1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes: / > On 2006-10-17 20:01, "Larry Kilgallen" wrote:  >  >> [...] >>  D >> Can you give an example of a piece of VMS documentation that used* >> this method, as proof of the principle. > F >>From the "HP OpenVMS System Manager's Manual, Volume 1: Essentials",= > AA-PV5MH-TK.PDF (OpenVMS 7.3-2 Documentation CD) meta data:  > - > | Producer: Acrobat Distiller 5.0 (Windows) & > | CreationDate: 2003-10-16T08:09:01Z > | Creator: FrameMaker 6.0  > | Title: AA-PV5MH-TK.book   9 That would be the newer HP document creation methodology, 8 not the DEC Document method which was alleged earlier in9 this thread as being better in this regard than after the  change.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:54:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows+ Message-ID: <4pkjmqFj2djeU1@individual.net>   0 In article <12ja49p9ueeeg2b@corp.supernews.com>,- 	"Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  > 8 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:4pke74Fjc48sU1@individual.net... 2 >> In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>,/ >> "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  >>> K >>> Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade   >>> the H >>> PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware
 >>> directly? E >>> With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall   >>> everything, B >>> from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them.... >> >> Bullcrap. >>K >>> I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure  >>> eveything.M >>> I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it $ >>> miserably failed at boot time... >>F >> Build a master image of Windows for the labs and then install it onF >> all the machines in the lab.  At no time have I had a lab where allE >> the machines were the same.  Usually, I have 3-4 totally different D >> hardware configurations on lab machines.  And it still works with> >> just one image and, at most, a little massaging of drivers. >> > @ > M$ says in KB article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/Q249694:H > Microsoft *does not* support restoring a system state backup from one H > computer to a second computer of a different make, model, or hardware  > configuration. > B > And past experience shows going to a different HW does not work.O > If you take a Ghost copy of a PC and load that onto a different hardware, it  
 > won't boot. M > There are exceptions but if you go from a Pentium III single to Pentium IV  ' > with 2 CPUs, it certainly won't work.   H Well, I am certainly glad you didn't tell me this before I started doing2 it because then it propbably wouldn't have worked.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:34:36 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> ( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows+ Message-ID: <eh37ns$ftg$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <12ja49p9ueeeg2b@corp.supernews.com>,/ > 	"Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: 9 >> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message  ( >> news:4pke74Fjc48sU1@individual.net...3 >>> In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>, 0 >>> "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:L >>>> Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade  >>>> theI >>>> PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware  >>>> directly?F >>>> With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall  >>>> everything,C >>>> from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them.... 
 >>> Bullcrap.  >>> L >>>> I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure >>>> eveything. N >>>> I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it% >>>> miserably failed at boot time... G >>> Build a master image of Windows for the labs and then install it on G >>> all the machines in the lab.  At no time have I had a lab where all F >>> the machines were the same.  Usually, I have 3-4 totally differentE >>> hardware configurations on lab machines.  And it still works with ? >>> just one image and, at most, a little massaging of drivers.  >>> A >> M$ says in KB article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/Q249694: I >> Microsoft *does not* support restoring a system state backup from one  I >> computer to a second computer of a different make, model, or hardware   >> configuration.  >>C >> And past experience shows going to a different HW does not work. P >> If you take a Ghost copy of a PC and load that onto a different hardware, it  >> won't boot.N >> There are exceptions but if you go from a Pentium III single to Pentium IV ( >> with 2 CPUs, it certainly won't work. > J > Well, I am certainly glad you didn't tell me this before I started doing4 > it because then it propbably wouldn't have worked.  + This is getting pretty far afield from VMS.   F However, at the very least one should run sysprep on the image before G copying.  And as stated above, the SMP version of Windows is different  I than the regular version, and you'll probably have issues after ghosting  I one onto the other type of machine.  Of VMS, linux, and Windows, imaging  B the OS onto another machine is easiest for VMS, nearly as easy forF linux, and much more of a PITA for Windows.  And that's talking about > just getting it transferred, reconfigured, and up and running.D There are also license issues.  For that linux is (usually) simplestE (no license issues at all), followed by VMS (licenses, but all nicely H contained in the license manager), followed distantly by Windows, which @ has some truly onerous copying restrictions.  Example: blow the @ motherboard on an (older) machine with an OEM license, put in a E replacement motherboard of a new type (original no longer available), F and bingo, you've violated the OEM license agreement.  Retail licenses' do allow this type of motherboard swap.    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 14:42:52 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than WindowsC Message-ID: <1161121372.841254.294260@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <12ja49p9ueeeg2b@corp.supernews.com>,/ > 	"Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  > > 9 > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ) > > news:4pke74Fjc48sU1@individual.net... 4 > >> In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>,1 > >> "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  > >>> L > >>> Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade	 > >>> the J > >>> PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware > >>> directly? F > >>> With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall > >>> everything, D > >>> from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them.... > >> > >> Bullcrap. > >>M > >>> I want to change my peecee but don't have time to reinstall/reconfigure  > >>> eveything.O > >>> I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis) but it & > >>> miserably failed at boot time... > >>H > >> Build a master image of Windows for the labs and then install it onH > >> all the machines in the lab.  At no time have I had a lab where allG > >> the machines were the same.  Usually, I have 3-4 totally different F > >> hardware configurations on lab machines.  And it still works with@ > >> just one image and, at most, a little massaging of drivers. > >> > > B > > M$ says in KB article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/Q249694:I > > Microsoft *does not* support restoring a system state backup from one I > > computer to a second computer of a different make, model, or hardware  > > configuration. > > D > > And past experience shows going to a different HW does not work.P > > If you take a Ghost copy of a PC and load that onto a different hardware, it > > won't boot. N > > There are exceptions but if you go from a Pentium III single to Pentium IV) > > with 2 CPUs, it certainly won't work.  > J > Well, I am certainly glad you didn't tell me this before I started doing4 > it because then it propbably wouldn't have worked. >   E Bill,  I think this discussion is about "new" versions of Windows --- E Windows XP, Win2003 and Vista. You are either talking about cloning a @ pre-licensed, uninstalled XP "master image" and then running theF installation on each system registering it with its own unique key, or' you are *not* talking about Windows XP.   D Win98, NT and such had only EULA license enforcement with nothing toA physically prevent them from being installed on multiple systems.   C During XP installation, you need to input a unique 25 character key F (same as older OS's). XP's installation also records the hardware ID's of the:   G Display Adapter,SCSI Adapter, Motherboard, NIC and its MAC Address, RAM F Amount Range (i.e., 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc.), Processor Type, ProcessorA Serial Number, Hard Drive Device, Hard Drive Volume Serial Number  (VSN), CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM   @ and assigns "votes" to each identifier --- NIC gets 3 votes. The@ license key and hardware identifiers are used to create a uniqueF registration string. The system must be allowed to register on-line orD you must do it manually by phone within 30 days. If a key is alreadyG registered, and the hardware IDs are different, registration will fail. + (M$ police will be at your door shortly ;-)   B Each time XP boots, it checks the hardware and tallies votes (sameA hardware adds its votes, different hardware gets no vote). If the A hardware is substantially the same (i.e., you've just replaced an C adapter, etc.) it will tally at least 7 votes and continue a normal  boot.   G If you fail to register or if startup finds fewer than 7 votes, Windows G will only boot into safe mode with all Windows features disabled except D for the registration procedure. You must then call M$ to explain whyD you've changed that much hardware and beg for a product reactivation? key. Having never done this, I can't comment on how easy it is.   G If you reinstall Windows on the same or substantially the same hardware G it will re-register itself sucessfully if the registration data matches & M$'s stored data with 7 votes or more.   ---   + A possible way to shift this back on-topic:   E  M$ has created a way to protect its investment and make registration > and product updates easy for the user (product quality aside).A Could/should/will VMS registration and updates be this automated?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:43:40 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows? Message-ID: <g8cZg.151753$aP3.128707@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Syltrem wrote:. > <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message ( > news:egvtgt$21u$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...< >> In article <00A5D480.325A52C8@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  >> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:I >>> In article <egvpns$sf$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk   >>> writes:  >>>>; >>>> In article <4533649C.D1BA69B9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  + >>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: H >>>>> VMS' current version is 8.3. Released in 2006 (july if I remember  >>>>> correctly).  >>>>> N >>>>> When was the last Windows release made (XP SP-2) ? Wasn't it a number of >>>>> years ago ? O >>>> But the next version of Windows  (Vista) is due out soon (though somewhat  
 >>>> later, >>>> than originally intended by Microsoft).) >>> They had alot of code to comment out:  >>> = >>> /*   printf("Weendoze XP")  */  /* same bugs, new name */  >>> < >>>     printf("Weendoze Vista)    /* same bugs, new name */ >>> K >> No be fair - I'm sure they have spent a lot of effort in putting in new   >> bugs. >>L >> Which transition was it (NT to XP or something else) where the publicity  >> forH >> the new version was that it fixed a gazillion bugs affecting the old 
 >> versionL >> (while of course up until the release they had been claiming that the old >> version was secure).  >>
 >> David Webb  >  > M > Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later upgrade the  G > PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware   > directly? O > With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall everything,  @ > from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them....  I I've found you can normally do a "repair" installation of windows if you  I change the motherboard/devices etc. That keeps all your original windows  F settings and programs but reinstalls the hardware support for the new H devices. No not as easy as VMS hardware upgrades by any means but it is 	 possible.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:30:54 -0700' From: "bclaremont" <msi1@earthlink.net> ( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than WindowsB Message-ID: <1161127854.254465.17410@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  N > Which transition was it (NT to XP or something else) where the publicity forN > the new version was that it fixed a gazillion bugs affecting the old versionK > (while of course up until the release they had been claiming that the old  > version was secure).  E Okay, to get back to proper Winedoz bashing, I believe that was every + release, ever... past, present, and future.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:23:54 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ( Subject: Re: VMS is younger than Windows9 Message-ID: <H56dnV5QY4dm4qjYnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    David Mathog wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 >> In article <12ja49p9ueeeg2b@corp.supernews.com>, 3 >>     "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: : >>> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ) >>> news:4pke74Fjc48sU1@individual.net... 4 >>>> In article <12j9rm2vt04b8c@corp.supernews.com>,1 >>>> "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: E >>>>> Is there any hope that I can install Vista on my PC, and later   >>>>> upgrade the J >>>>> PC hardware (change motherboard, CPU, etc) and boot the new hardware >>>>> directly? G >>>>> With present and past versions of Weendoze, one had to reinstall   >>>>> everything, D >>>>> from Weendoze itself to all applications, reconfigure them.... >>>> Bullcrap. >>>>8 >>>>> I want to change my peecee but don't have time to  >>>>> reinstall/reconfigure  >>>>> eveything.I >>>>> I tried a software that supposedly helps in this process (Acronis)   >>>>> but it& >>>>> miserably failed at boot time...H >>>> Build a master image of Windows for the labs and then install it onH >>>> all the machines in the lab.  At no time have I had a lab where allG >>>> the machines were the same.  Usually, I have 3-4 totally different F >>>> hardware configurations on lab machines.  And it still works with@ >>>> just one image and, at most, a little massaging of drivers. >>>>B >>> M$ says in KB article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/Q249694:J >>> Microsoft *does not* support restoring a system state backup from one J >>> computer to a second computer of a different make, model, or hardware  >>> configuration. >>> D >>> And past experience shows going to a different HW does not work.D >>> If you take a Ghost copy of a PC and load that onto a different  >>> hardware, it won't boot.D >>> There are exceptions but if you go from a Pentium III single to 4 >>> Pentium IV with 2 CPUs, it certainly won't work. >>K >> Well, I am certainly glad you didn't tell me this before I started doing 5 >> it because then it propbably wouldn't have worked.  > - > This is getting pretty far afield from VMS.  > H > However, at the very least one should run sysprep on the image before I > copying.  And as stated above, the SMP version of Windows is different  K > than the regular version, and you'll probably have issues after ghosting  K > one onto the other type of machine.  Of VMS, linux, and Windows, imaging  D > the OS onto another machine is easiest for VMS, nearly as easy forH > linux, and much more of a PITA for Windows.  And that's talking about @ > just getting it transferred, reconfigured, and up and running.F > There are also license issues.  For that linux is (usually) simplestG > (no license issues at all), followed by VMS (licenses, but all nicely J > contained in the license manager), followed distantly by Windows, which B > has some truly onerous copying restrictions.  Example: blow the B > motherboard on an (older) machine with an OEM license, put in a G > replacement motherboard of a new type (original no longer available), H > and bingo, you've violated the OEM license agreement.  Retail licenses) > do allow this type of motherboard swap.  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog  I What's sad is that people still buy products from vendors that give them  @ (the customers) the shaft.  Guess I should be careful with such ? observations, in light of the recent changes in HP support and   reductions in personnel.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:15:04 -0700 From: tomarsin2015@comcast.net$ Subject: Re: VMS stuff available nowC Message-ID: <1161148504.715520.104600@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F As far as I know everything should be available. I donot have anythingD to do with the web site or ordering. If there is another saying or aD better design then let me know. Its not bad for a guy you only knows Linux!!!   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  > Hello 4 > OpenVMS stuff shirts/cups/etc are now available at > www.tardedmonkeydesigns.com  > then click on computing gear	 > phillip    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.572 ************************