1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 22 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 580       Contents: Re: In a box solutions Re: In a box solutions% Re: Innovative use of DSSI cabinets !  Re: Mylex question Re: Mylex question Re: Mylex question Re: OpenVMS over VMWare $ Re: Running a news server on OpenVMS& SAS desupport article from openvms.org* Re: SAS desupport article from openvms.org# Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # RE: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.  USB hamster runs Re: USB hamster runs Re: USB hamster runs Re: USB hamster runs: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.$ Re: VMS DCL script programmer needed  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 03:06:17 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: In a box solutions 0 Message-ID: <87wt6tlc9i.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  . "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:  6 > don't get started on pre-configured cluster systems.  A > I did two of those in the 80's (remember the 8974 and 8978) and , > guess what you all poo-pooed them to death  : I sold a 8974 on day 1. Probably before due to time zones.  D > there were other attempts at pre-configured cluster systems in the > 90's also.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:04:01 -0700 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: In a box solutions I Message-ID: <3f119ada0610212204l75491022v41ca8866792734bc@mail.gmail.com>   F On 19 Oct 2006 08:32:40 -0700, Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote:	 > Warren, E >      there's a world of difference.  Remember the timeframe; Compaq H > takeover, apparently a CEO who "got it" about Alpha, and maybe VMS (atD > least until the windows-beancounter thugocracy sacked him), and anH > actual ADVERTISEMENT mentioning VMS.  Wow!  Compaq might actually WANT > to sell the product!  C We did an RFP presentation at that time. Compaq insisted on sending A along two of their PC-pushing drones to push including PCs on the  desktop.  @ The drones were *astounded* that we were selling a high 7-figure7 package that included a grand total of *two* computers. ; (medium-equipped ES-40s), and everything else was software,  customization, training, etc.   F Sure, they could include some PCs in the package at a loss- but they'd make it up in volume!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:16:42 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> . Subject: Re: Innovative use of DSSI cabinets !J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-9C9866.21164221102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>   In article  > <8660a3a10610210701j1fe641ffvc9e5babe24b8fe8e@mail.gmail.com>,1  "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:   = > On 10/20/06, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: L > > Today is a true automnal day here in montreal. lots of rain, temperatureK > > just above freezing, and periods where the precipitation is in the form  > > of very wet snow.  > > - > > Your running shoes are all wet and cold ?  > > H > > No problem... just put then on the side of the DSSI cabinet. Lots ofJ > > nice warm air flowing out of there all the time, making your shoes dry) > > and toasty warm in no time at all !!!  > > L > > Kudos to those Digital cabinet engineers :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > > :-) ;-)  > >  > Automnal?  >    French for autumnal.   :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:23:32 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Mylex question : Message-ID: <PNqdnQd0SMTQHKfYnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com>   H Vlems wrote:I > The Digital Server 5305 now firmly believes it's an Alpha Server 5/400. , > It has 192 MB memory and 7 internal disks.M > As it happens, this system has a split bus and I put in a Mylex DAC960 RAID * > controller, with one internal SCSI port.I > The firmware recognizes the DAC960 but takes a long time in polling it.  > No disks are "visible":  >  > P00>>>sh devC > polling ncr0 (NCR 53C810) slot 1, bus 0 PCI, hose 1 SCSI Bus ID 7 - > dka100.1.0.1.1 DKA100 SEAGATE ST31230N HPM4 " > dka500.5.0.1.1 DKA500 RRD47 1206- > polling floppy0 (FLOPPY) PCEB - XBUS hose 0  > dva0.0.0.1000.0 DVA0 RX23 8 > polling dac0 (Mylex DAC960 ) slot 3, bus 0 PCI, hose 0. > process show 00000072 freeing a null pointerG > polling isp0 (QLogic ISP10X0) slot 1, bus 2 PCI, hose 0 SCSI Bus ID 7 $ > dkb0.0.0.2001.0 DKB0 RZ1DF-CB 0371( > dkb100.1.0.2001.0 DKB100 RZ2DC-PA 5520( > dkb200.2.0.2001.0 DKB200 RZ2DC-PA 55208 > dkb300.3.0.2001.0 DKB300 QUANTUM VIKING II 4.5SCA 5520= > polling tulip0 (DECchip 21040-AA) slot 0, bus 2 PCI, hose 0 0 > ewa0.0.0.2000.0 00-00-F8-23-6E-27 Twisted-Pair > P00>>> > < > The question (of course) is: how do I configure the Mylex?/ > I have neither software nor documentation :-(  >  > Hans >  >   H The RAID Array 230 (I think that's the right number) was a Mylex DAC960 @ with Digital firmware.  I bought two at my last job to get some G el-cheapo RAID.  They worked for two years till I left and, I believe,  1 they continued to work till the VMS systems left.   I The Mylex DAC960 WITHOUT the Digital firmware, doesn't do a thing in the  @ Alphastation 600 I plugged it into!  The RA230 software doesn't  recognize it!!  G Sell it to some sucker for use in a PC.  It may be possible to make it  I work but it's hardly worth the effort!  You can buy the DEC version used  I   if you really want one.  Check with your favorite used hardware pusher   for prices.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:17:28 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> Subject: Re: Mylex question 2 Message-ID: <1161483536_5021@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   Scott wrote:O > I used the utilities from here to configure the DAC960 in my Digital HX 6000   > Intel based server. O > http://www.ncr.com/support/support_drivers_patches.asp?Class=pc_library_mylex R > They are not Alpha tools so you will have to put the card in a Intel machine to  > configure it.  > 1 > "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> wrote in message  1 > news:ehd69f$2tak$1@registered.motzarella.org... J >> The Digital Server 5305 now firmly believes it's an Alpha Server 5/400.- >> It has 192 MB memory and 7 internal disks. N >> As it happens, this system has a split bus and I put in a Mylex DAC960 RAID+ >> controller, with one internal SCSI port. J >> The firmware recognizes the DAC960 but takes a long time in polling it. >> No disks are "visible": >> >> P00>>>sh dev D >> polling ncr0 (NCR 53C810) slot 1, bus 0 PCI, hose 1 SCSI Bus ID 7. >> dka100.1.0.1.1 DKA100 SEAGATE ST31230N HPM4# >> dka500.5.0.1.1 DKA500 RRD47 1206 . >> polling floppy0 (FLOPPY) PCEB - XBUS hose 0 >> dva0.0.0.1000.0 DVA0 RX239 >> polling dac0 (Mylex DAC960 ) slot 3, bus 0 PCI, hose 0 / >> process show 00000072 freeing a null pointer H >> polling isp0 (QLogic ISP10X0) slot 1, bus 2 PCI, hose 0 SCSI Bus ID 7% >> dkb0.0.0.2001.0 DKB0 RZ1DF-CB 0371 ) >> dkb100.1.0.2001.0 DKB100 RZ2DC-PA 5520 ) >> dkb200.2.0.2001.0 DKB200 RZ2DC-PA 5520 9 >> dkb300.3.0.2001.0 DKB300 QUANTUM VIKING II 4.5SCA 5520 > >> polling tulip0 (DECchip 21040-AA) slot 0, bus 2 PCI, hose 01 >> ewa0.0.0.2000.0 00-00-F8-23-6E-27 Twisted-Pair 	 >> P00>>>  >>= >> The question (of course) is: how do I configure the Mylex? 0 >> I have neither software nor documentation :-( >> >> Hans  >> >>   Hans,   ; A copy of the DAC960 configuration utility can be found at:   G    <http://ftp.uniroma2.it/Digital/compaq/softpaq/alphant/m-arcapp.zip>   ? This archive contains both the FLASH loader, ARCFL.EXE, and the ! configuration utility, ARCCF.EXE.   H To use ARCCF.EXE you will need to copy it to a M$ FAT formatted disketteH and boot the ARC console on the 5305. It's been a long time since I lastD did this so I don't remember the *how* to get there, but you want to RUN a program from the floppy.  E As the readme file in the ZIP archive says, it takes ARCCF.EXE a long  time to start!  8-)    HTH,   Jeff Campbell  N8WXS      Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2006 19:42:25 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Mylex question B Message-ID: <1161484945.516369.80280@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   H Vlems wrote:I > The Digital Server 5305 now firmly believes it's an Alpha Server 5/400. , > It has 192 MB memory and 7 internal disks.M > As it happens, this system has a split bus and I put in a Mylex DAC960 RAID * > controller, with one internal SCSI port.I > The firmware recognizes the DAC960 but takes a long time in polling it.  > No disks are "visible":  >  > P00>>>sh devC > polling ncr0 (NCR 53C810) slot 1, bus 0 PCI, hose 1 SCSI Bus ID 7 - > dka100.1.0.1.1 DKA100 SEAGATE ST31230N HPM4 " > dka500.5.0.1.1 DKA500 RRD47 1206- > polling floppy0 (FLOPPY) PCEB - XBUS hose 0   > dva0.0.0.1000.0 DVA0 RX239  > polling dac0 (Mylex DAC960 ) slot 3, bus 0 PCI, hose 0 . > process show 00000072 freeing a null pointerG > polling isp0 (QLogic ISP10X0) slot 1, bus 2 PCI, hose 0 SCSI Bus ID 7 $ > dkb0.0.0.2001.0 DKB0 RZ1DF-CB 0371( > dkb100.1.0.2001.0 DKB100 RZ2DC-PA 5520( > dkb200.2.0.2001.0 DKB200 RZ2DC-PA 55208 > dkb300.3.0.2001.0 DKB300 QUANTUM VIKING II 4.5SCA 5520= > polling tulip0 (DECchip 21040-AA) slot 0, bus 2 PCI, hose 0 0 > ewa0.0.0.2000.0 00-00-F8-23-6E-27 Twisted-Pair > P00>>> > < > The question (of course) is: how do I configure the Mylex?/ > I have neither software nor documentation :-(  >  > Hans   Hi Hans,  B   Are we twins or something?  Each of my "1200"'s also has a MylexC DAC960 in it.  My 5305 also has the split SCSI bus for the internal D drives.  Doesn't matter if its a DEC or OEM version.  Go to the RAID Array 230/Plus page at HP ( O http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/retired/ra230/index.html E ) and bookmark it.  It's your gateway to all things wonderful for the  DAC960.   < Pay particular attention to the right side of the page.  The? Installation guide, product description, release notes and most 3 importantly - FIRMWARE and CONFIGURATION utilities.   E The DAC960 is a bit inconvenient in that to set up the raid units you C have to do it offline - i.e. from the ARC console.  So download the = firmware, firmware updater and configuration utilities onto a B Windows/DOS system, unzip them and copy them to a MS-DOS formatted3 floppy.  FAT-16 formatted 1.44MB will do just fine.   E Depending on what firmware version your card has you probably want to D upgrade it first before re-configuring the disks.  Appendix A of theF RCU (Raid Configuration Utilitiy) Users Guide has the instructions forG that.  They are a little confusing about the command line format.  What E you want is to put something like this for the prompt of what program  to run:             ra200fl.exe -v 270   B Once that is done you have to power off and reboot back to the ARCF console again to run RCU.  When you get back to the maintenance prompt enter:           ra200rcu.exe -o   D You need the "-o" to tell RCU to ignore (or override) the controllerG configuration stored in NVRAM.  If you don't then it will discover that F the current configuration does not match the stored one and it will go@ to a screen that tells you that and then halts.  The only way to2 recover is to power off the system and start over.  E Once RCU has started (in the override setting) then you can clear the B stored configuration and build a new one.  Read over the RCU Users Guide for examples.   F Remember, the largest drive you can use with the DAC960 is 9GB and theE largest RAID unit you can build is 32GB.  You can create a larger one < but then you have to slice it up into smaller logical units.  C Once you are done it is a very good idea to store the configuration C onto a floppy just in case you have to restore it (like if the card C dies and you replace it with another).  That is the only way to get @ access to the data on the raid units if something happens to theG controller.  It is not large so there should be room on the floppy with  the RCU and firmware.   
 Good luck.     John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:32:02 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>   Subject: Re: OpenVMS over VMWare+ Message-ID: <4pvb1vFkkthsU1@individual.net>   + On 2006-10-21 19:55, "Wilm Boerhout" wrote:   ) > on 21-10-2006 17:28 bclaremont wrote...  > D >> That's cool.  Which specific O/S and what hardware were you using >> (CPU(s) & Memory)?  > ; > Hardware: AMD Opteron in a HP Proliant DL145, 4GB memory;  > ! > Software, on top of each other:  > 1 > Windows X64 R2 Standard Edition, fully patched;  > E > CHARON-AXP 4000 1.0.13 B142 (most recent production build), 1GB of   > emulated Alpha memory  > : > OpenVMS/Alpha 8.2 fully patched (this was two weeks ago)  D Wasn't there a "virtual PC" product available for OpenVMS/Alpha? YouE could probably insert that "layer" between the "Alpha" and the "VAX".   , > DEC C to compile the SIMH 3.6 VAX emulator > < > OpenVMS/VAX 7.3 fully patched, 128M of emulated VAX memory > 6 > DEC C on VAX to compile the SIMH 3.6 PDP-11 emulator > D > RSTS/E V7.0 (the dik set that is freely available in SIMH circles) > K > Now if I could get my hands on one of the really old cross compilers for  E > Z80, and a Z80 emulator for RSTS, would that be a world record for  J > "nested emulation"? Or would I need to run my Windows base system under ' > Microsoft Virtual Server as well? :-)    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2006 07:33:37 GMT7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) - Subject: Re: Running a news server on OpenVMS % Message-ID: <2006Oct22.073337@hujicc>   \ In article <4537e741$0$10304$815e3792@news.qwest.net>, Jim Mehlhop <jim@mehlhop.org> writes:D > I'd like to know how to set up my VMS box as a news server.  I am K > running Multinet 5.1 and OpenVMS8.2 Alpha on a PWS500au with 640 meg and  G >   about 60 GB of free disk space.  I could probably dedicate an 18GB   > disk for this. > & > Is there any documentation for this? >  >  > Jim   L I used ANUNEWS in the past (up to about 7-8 years ago). The problem was thatN VMS couldn't hold the load of creating and deleting a lot of small files (eachI item was a separate file). I finally moved it to a Linux server with Inn.    Nothing is perfect... B                                                          __Yehavi:   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 08:36:52 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> / Subject: SAS desupport article from openvms.org 1 Message-ID: <ehee80$2ts$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,    Just had a look at: -   9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/20/4267457   J and was wondering if anyone new the rationale behind their decision. (*NO*H their rationale *NOT* yours!) Were there technical challenges that wouldC prove costly? Assembler involved? or are they deliberately making a - statement that IA64 has no worthwhile future?   D SAS are pretty flush with funds aren't they? Biggest privately owned= (software?) company in the world? No shareholders to placate?   I I also thought that the "b) until HP desupports the operating system" was I particularly churlish! I mean 2009 is not that far away even for the most L pessimistic. I know it's probably a legal thing but it doesn't have to be onF the website? (Then again I couldn't find that bit on the SAS website?)  I Anyone have any idea how big a loss of business it will be? Anyone from a  SAS users group?   Regards Richard Maher    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:21:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: SAS desupport article from openvms.org , Message-ID: <453AF1CA.85FAA94E@teksavvy.com>   Richard Maher wrote: >  > Hi,  >  > Just had a look at: -  > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/20/4267457  > G > and was wondering if anyone new the rationale behind their decision.    G Simple business decision. VMS was already in a decline of userbase. And G they they foisted that IA64 thing on customers. Not only thet trauma of F yet another migration, but also a migration to a platform whose future is more uncertain than Alpha's.   F Even the IDG study commissioned/sponsored by HP stated that because ofS the move to that IA64 thing, HP risks losing about 30% of its enterprise customers.   H Intel  is out to get rid of unprofitable products. And a senior Intel VP0 has admitted IA64 isn't profitable. Do the math.  F In 2004, the statements alluded to a 207 wind down of IA64. But now itG looks like 2008 when intel's prime platform gets the new high performan D system chipset/interconnects at which point it will outperform those IA64 things.  H Had HP admitted this was the plan and committed to port VMS to the intelF primary platform, then ISVs would have had far more enthousism for VMSD and while they would have still avoided the port to that IA64 thing,G they would have announced longer support for Alpha and comitted to port + to the 8086 as soon as VMS could run on it.   F In terms of the timing of the announcement, it is perfectly normal: HPG is about to prematurely end Alpha sales. Once Alpha sales are over, SAS 2 cannot expect any new sales of its product on VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2006 11:22:36 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com , Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.B Message-ID: <1161454956.074457.67310@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:  > Hello, > E > I need pointers to a crash course in VMS administration. Or a book, E > books, etc. I am a recent hire and the VMS admin was asked to leave E > (despite my recommendations, in fact). What little documentation on I > things like backup procedures and so forth tends toward the general and H > vague rather than specific and procedural. I was hired as a Unix/LinuxE > admin, and at no point did I ever say or did my resume mention VMS. H > Probably because I've never worked with it ;-). However, I've also hadI > it made abundantly clear to me that that is not a sufficient reason for ? > any failures to administer this system properly, immediately.   D how about looking for a new employer?  For an employer to not listenA to their admins recommendations and have a think they know it all B attitude about an os they know nothing about isn't someone I would want to work for ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:09:10 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.@ Message-ID: <craigberry-A5BE95.13091021102006@free.teranews.com>  : In article <XcqdnS7EOs_Z0afYnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,5  "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:   I > > One of the problems is backups have to continue properly, and another K > > is there are many DCL scripts that fire off reports to management about G > > the system, with the previous admin's e-mail address in them, which H > > unfortunately the searches I've done have not turned up all of them.G > > I'm being pressured to resolve that immediately if not sooner but I  > > have nothing much to go on.  > >  > $ SEARCH *.COM MAIL J > should turn up DCL scripts that mention the word "mail" and that should B > find most of them.   You could put a band-aid on the problem by 1 > forwarding the former admin's mail to yourself.   G The former admin's address may be in distribution list files which are  G referred to in the DCL scripts rather than being directly in the DCL.   H Distribution lists by default have a .DIS extension and are preceded in D the To: list of a mail command by an at sign ('@').  More info here:  D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_012.html#exch_23   --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:20:17 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> , Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.0 Message-ID: <453AB941.59DA305E@spam.comcast.net>   jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:  >  > Hello, > F > I've recently inherited a Alpha system running OpenVMS... I'm a UnixE > admin, and this is in production for mission critical applications.  > F > I have an old DEC VMS User Guide, and google, and of course a lot ofA > mindset and skills highly relevant to Unix systems and probably  > detrimental on VMS systems.  > E > I need pointers to a crash course in VMS administration. Or a book, E > books, etc. I am a recent hire and the VMS admin was asked to leave E > (despite my recommendations, in fact). What little documentation on I > things like backup procedures and so forth tends toward the general and H > vague rather than specific and procedural. I was hired as a Unix/LinuxE > admin, and at no point did I ever say or did my resume mention VMS. H > Probably because I've never worked with it ;-). However, I've also hadI > it made abundantly clear to me that that is not a sufficient reason for ? > any failures to administer this system properly, immediately.  > H > The help command and some web references have been helpful; I've foundH > the search command and how to move to the MFD of physical disks... But, > to say I'm at a loss is an understatement.  3 *Whew* Nothing like being "thrown to the dogs", eh?   N Well, if you need some help with VMS in general, here's some info you may find useful:   " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  I That page has links to some more info. that may be useful, in addition to P whatothers have mentioned. To get some insight into DCL scripts, take a look at:   DCL Programming 3 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/powerpnt/4038.ppt   B > I'm needing an overview of things like scheduling, what jobs areG > running, auditing and accounting and reports, how things are laid out F > (like, where's VMS's /etc & /var equivalents, or how is that sort of > thing handled?)... > @ > I appreciate any advice or help anyone can offer, thanks much!   As others have mentioned, ...    $ SHOW QUEUE/ALL/BATCH  6 ...will display the batch queues and the jobs on them.  P Auditing and Accounting will take more explanation than can be given in a UsenetO post. You'll want to review the OpenVMS System Manager's Manual. Find a link to " it for your version of OpenVMS at:    http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc  L ..., then click the "OpenVMS Operating System" link in the left hand column.  M "/etc" and "/var" have no equivalent in VMS. You'll need to get accustomed to 8 the idea of "logical names", and especially these paths:  M SYS$SYSTEM: - most of the system executables are found in this path. However, J note that "executables" in VMS-land typically refers to binary executables (*.EXE files).  O SYS$MANAGER: - Many of the site-specific system startup procedures can be found 
 in this path.   M What's really gonna screw you up is the idea that logical names can represent  "search lists". For example,  % DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log sys$sysroot =    "SYS$SYSROOT" = "DJAS01$DKA300:[SYS0.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)          = "SYS$COMMON:" F 1  "SYS$COMMON" = "DJAS01$DKA300:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)% DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log sys$manager <    "SYS$MANAGER" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  C (Oh, yeah - you can abbreviate commands and some command elements.)   L So, for paths like SYS$MANAGER, SYS$SYSTEM, etc. which reference SYS$SYSROOTP there actually *TWO* paths associated with that specification. The node-specific> path (SYS$SYSROOT:) and the cluster-common path (SYS$COMMON:).  J Again, this gets into explanations well beyond the scope of a Usenet post.  P As you've probably already noticed, VMS is like MS-DOS in that there's no singleN file-system "root", rather there's an MFD on each MOUNTed volume. See this URL for some useful info:   . http://www.djesys.com/vms/mentor/vms_path.html  9 That explains VMS file specification elements and syntax.   M If the powers-that-be will allow it, consider bringing in someone to help you M get up to speed. From what you've posted, though, it is likely that you'll be P expected to be resourcesful and acquire knowledge and experience on your own. In= that case, I'd polish up the old resume sooner than possible.   , Hope some of this helps in some small way...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:42:49 -0500 + From: "Forster, Michael" <mforster@mcw.edu> , Subject: RE: Unix admin needs some pointers.8 Message-ID: <01ff01c6f573$024ead61$47146a8d@mcwcorp.net>  ? For scheduling you may have the freeware cron to check for too.    -----Original Message-----5 From: "David J Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> 3 To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>  Sent: 10/21/06 7:38 PM, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.   jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:  >=20 > Hello, >=20F > I've recently inherited a Alpha system running OpenVMS... I'm a UnixE > admin, and this is in production for mission critical applications.  >=20F > I have an old DEC VMS User Guide, and google, and of course a lot ofA > mindset and skills highly relevant to Unix systems and probably  > detrimental on VMS systems.  >=20E > I need pointers to a crash course in VMS administration. Or a book, E > books, etc. I am a recent hire and the VMS admin was asked to leave E > (despite my recommendations, in fact). What little documentation on G > things like backup procedures and so forth tends toward the general =  and H > vague rather than specific and procedural. I was hired as a Unix/LinuxE > admin, and at no point did I ever say or did my resume mention VMS. H > Probably because I've never worked with it ;-). However, I've also hadG > it made abundantly clear to me that that is not a sufficient reason =  for ? > any failures to administer this system properly, immediately.  >=20H > The help command and some web references have been helpful; I've foundH > the search command and how to move to the MFD of physical disks... But, > to say I'm at a loss is an understatement.  3 *Whew* Nothing like being "thrown to the dogs", eh?   G Well, if you need some help with VMS in general, here's some info you =  may find useful:   " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  H That page has links to some more info. that may be useful, in addition = toI whatothers have mentioned. To get some insight into DCL scripts, take a =  look at:   DCL Programming 3 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/powerpnt/4038.ppt   B > I'm needing an overview of things like scheduling, what jobs areG > running, auditing and accounting and reports, how things are laid out F > (like, where's VMS's /etc & /var equivalents, or how is that sort of > thing handled?)... >=20@ > I appreciate any advice or help anyone can offer, thanks much!   As others have mentioned, ...    $ SHOW QUEUE/ALL/BATCH  5 ..will display the batch queues and the jobs on them.   I Auditing and Accounting will take more explanation than can be given in =  a UsenetI post. You'll want to review the OpenVMS System Manager's Manual. Find a =  link to " it for your version of OpenVMS at:    http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc  E .., then click the "OpenVMS Operating System" link in the left hand =  column.   A "/etc" and "/var" have no equivalent in VMS. You'll need to get = 
 accustomed to 8 the idea of "logical names", and especially these paths:  F SYS$SYSTEM: - most of the system executables are found in this path. = However,@ note that "executables" in VMS-land typically refers to binary = executables  (*.EXE files).  H SYS$MANAGER: - Many of the site-specific system startup procedures can = be found
 in this path.   E What's really gonna screw you up is the idea that logical names can = 	 represent  "search lists". For example,  % DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log sys$sysroot ?    "SYS$SYSROOT" =3D "DJAS01$DKA300:[SYS0.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)          =3D "SYS$COMMON:" H 1  "SYS$COMMON" =3D "DJAS01$DKA300:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)% DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh log sys$manager >    "SYS$MANAGER" =3D "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  C (Oh, yeah - you can abbreviate commands and some command elements.)   B So, for paths like SYS$MANAGER, SYS$SYSTEM, etc. which reference = SYS$SYSROOT D there actually *TWO* paths associated with that specification. The =
 node-specific > path (SYS$SYSROOT:) and the cluster-common path (SYS$COMMON:).  F Again, this gets into explanations well beyond the scope of a Usenet = post.   H As you've probably already noticed, VMS is like MS-DOS in that there's =	 no single G file-system "root", rather there's an MFD on each MOUNTed volume. See =  this URL for some useful info:   . http://www.djesys.com/vms/mentor/vms_path.html  9 That explains VMS file specification elements and syntax.   F If the powers-that-be will allow it, consider bringing in someone to = help youE get up to speed. From what you've posted, though, it is likely that = 	 you'll be J expected to be resourcesful and acquire knowledge and experience on your = own. In = that case, I'd polish up the old resume sooner than possible.   , Hope some of this helps in some small way...   --=20  David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:54:22 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> , Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.: Message-ID: <xYCdnfrwculKU6fYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@comcast.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:  >  >>Hello, >>F >>I've recently inherited a Alpha system running OpenVMS... I'm a UnixE >>admin, and this is in production for mission critical applications.  <snip> >  > 5 > *Whew* Nothing like being "thrown to the dogs", eh?  > P > Well, if you need some help with VMS in general, here's some info you may find	 > useful:  <snip>O > If the powers-that-be will allow it, consider bringing in someone to help you O > get up to speed. From what you've posted, though, it is likely that you'll be R > expected to be resourcesful and acquire knowledge and experience on your own. In? > that case, I'd polish up the old resume sooner than possible.   H Consider it an opportunity to add to your repertoire!  You may need the F resume so get it up to date but you needn't start circulating it just I yet!  The market for VMS skills is not what it used to be but it's still  I the system of choice when "reboot" is not an option.  This is not to say  F that VMS CAN'T paint itself into a corner from which rebooting is the K only exit but that it's less likely to do so than just about any other O/S.   G Some of the more useful Unix tools have been ported to VMS; e.g. grep,  	 and gawk.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2006 20:25:09 -0700 From: jrmorrisnc@gmail.com, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.C Message-ID: <1161487509.730824.192250@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Wow!  E Thank you all for your help. I do consider it an opportunity to learn D something new (to me anyway). I just wish the timescale for doing so8 was not so tight, but nothing like a good challenge, eh?  D I should also say to clarify that my immediate management aren't theF ones pushing on this, and I'm well aware of what being thrown off intoC the deep end is like, I've dealt with it before but that was over a E decade ago ;). It's a contract situation so the customer can push the F issue of various staff being removed and then push on the support side
 as well...  E I already can see some pretty cool things that only recently have any G decent analogs in the Unix world, like file versioning (snapshots under > EVMS/LVM2 on Linux or the whole NetApp snapshot thing would beF similiar, or CVS/SVN/etc, but snapshots are time based and VMS does itG on a per change basis without having to add any version control system.  Very cool.)   G I think armed with the advice received here I will be buying some books G and pushing back for possible training. I used to have an Alpha at home @ running Linux but sold it when I moved so I will probably go forE emulation under Linux to start while I get another Alpha... I think I @ can take care of any remaining mail address issues with a betterA understanding of where stuff might be, my searches were under the F assumption it would be in .COM files -- and it was, but that's not the only places it could be.  D One other thing they are pushing on is audit reports for the last 60B days; especially for telnet logins. The system uses UCX to provide telnet. So a couple questions:  E Any good references for UCX and logs related to services like telnet?   C Also, any good ssh server for VMS? The one link I found was dead...   @ Thanks a ton, once again, most appreciated and I look forward to
 learning VMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:03:51 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.) Message-ID: <XYC_g.2675$hK.2316@trnddc02>    jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:    [...]   F > One other thing they are pushing on is audit reports for the last 60D > days; especially for telnet logins. The system uses UCX to provide  > telnet. So a couple questions:  ? All logins (and login failures and breakin attempts), including A telnet logins, can be logged in the security audit log file.  See A HELP for ANALYZE/AUDIT and SHOW and SET AUDIT for configuring it. ? It's fairly arcane (for example, I always find it easier to use A /NOINTERACTIVE when using it interactively, for some reason!) but A very powerful, and it is possible to extract and filter auditable B events using many different criteria.  "Auditable events" includes? not just logins and logouts, but things like access attempts to C selected files or devices, executing a privileged system operation, E etc.  Most stuff is turned off by default; Don't turn on *EVERYTHING* 9 unless you have Terabytes to spare for the audit log :-).   A On the other hand, "UCX" implies a fairly old version, since they C changed the name to "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" some time ago, ? and all the old UCX commands were replaced with TCPIP commands. B (And the UCX$* files and directories were renamed to TCPIP$* filesC and directories, and the UCX logical names were replaced with TCPIP D logical names.  On the third hand, lots of people still refer to theB "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" stack as UCX.  (Say it or type itB about 3 times and you'll understand why!)  Also, they've kept mostE of the old command and logical names as synonyms so old command files H and programs will still work, and you can still type "$ UCX SHOW ROUTE", etc.     > G > Any good references for UCX and logs related to services like telnet?  >   E See the stuff about security auditing in the Guide to System Security A (VMS DOC set.)  I'm not sure if there is anything specifically in , the UCX/TCP/IP Services ... docs about this.  E > Also, any good ssh server for VMS? The one link I found was dead...   > The current (and recent) versions of UCX include one.  I think= Process Software (www.process.com) sells their SSH client and > server (part of the Multinet and TCPware IP stacks) separately= as an add-on to the DEC/Compaq/HP stack (and there used to be ; a couple of others.)  IIRC, because they were several years ( ahead of UCX in making an SSH available.   > B > Thanks a ton, once again, most appreciated and I look forward to > learning VMS.  >      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2006 22:24:51 -0700 From: jrmorrisnc@gmail.com, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.B Message-ID: <1161494691.629244.168700@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  > Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 42   on a AlphaServer 2100 4/200 running OpenVMS V6.2    @ Guess this OpenVMS server of mine is a bit behind the times, eh?   Thanks for all the help.   John Santos wrote: > jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:  >  > [...]  > H > > One other thing they are pushing on is audit reports for the last 60F > > days; especially for telnet logins. The system uses UCX to provide" > > telnet. So a couple questions: > A > All logins (and login failures and breakin attempts), including C > telnet logins, can be logged in the security audit log file.  See C > HELP for ANALYZE/AUDIT and SHOW and SET AUDIT for configuring it. A > It's fairly arcane (for example, I always find it easier to use C > /NOINTERACTIVE when using it interactively, for some reason!) but C > very powerful, and it is possible to extract and filter auditable D > events using many different criteria.  "Auditable events" includesA > not just logins and logouts, but things like access attempts to E > selected files or devices, executing a privileged system operation, G > etc.  Most stuff is turned off by default; Don't turn on *EVERYTHING* ; > unless you have Terabytes to spare for the audit log :-).  > C > On the other hand, "UCX" implies a fairly old version, since they E > changed the name to "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" some time ago, A > and all the old UCX commands were replaced with TCPIP commands. D > (And the UCX$* files and directories were renamed to TCPIP$* filesE > and directories, and the UCX logical names were replaced with TCPIP F > logical names.  On the third hand, lots of people still refer to theD > "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" stack as UCX.  (Say it or type itD > about 3 times and you'll understand why!)  Also, they've kept mostG > of the old command and logical names as synonyms so old command files J > and programs will still work, and you can still type "$ UCX SHOW ROUTE", > etc. >  >  > > I > > Any good references for UCX and logs related to services like telnet?  > >  > G > See the stuff about security auditing in the Guide to System Security C > (VMS DOC set.)  I'm not sure if there is anything specifically in . > the UCX/TCP/IP Services ... docs about this. > G > > Also, any good ssh server for VMS? The one link I found was dead...  > @ > The current (and recent) versions of UCX include one.  I think? > Process Software (www.process.com) sells their SSH client and @ > server (part of the Multinet and TCPware IP stacks) separately? > as an add-on to the DEC/Compaq/HP stack (and there used to be = > a couple of others.)  IIRC, because they were several years * > ahead of UCX in making an SSH available. >  > > D > > Thanks a ton, once again, most appreciated and I look forward to > > learning VMS.  > >  >  >  > --
 > John Santos  > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:23:11 GMT , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> Subject: USB hamster runs & Message-ID: <453A7FF4.D69F0019@hp.com>  = 	The USB hamster showed up in my mail on Thursday.  I took a  D quick USB bus trace with it in windows.  A small modification to theB missile support code and a rework of the missile example code and G the works.  No I have not taken time to tie it into system performance  A or anything else for that matter.  On th PC it is tied to typing   speed.  = 	If someone one want the code I will happily mail it to them  H all I ask is if you find a problem let me know.  Or if you come up with F a neat way to hook it system performance, I/O rate, cache hit rate etc send me the code.      Forrest    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:59:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: USB hamster runs , Message-ID: <453AECA2.F24144EC@teksavvy.com>   Forrest Kenney wrote: E >         The USB hamster showed up in my mail on Thursday.  I took a F > quick USB bus trace with it in windows.  A small modification to theC > missile support code and a rework of the missile example code and 
 > the works.      H Humm re-using code military code (missile launchers) to get some hampter to run in a wheel :-)   A (reminds me of the story of australian air force re-using code of G kangaroos in the bush to simulate troups ... the troups all ran away as + soon as the helicopters approached them :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 21:53:16 -0700 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: USB hamster runs I Message-ID: <3f119ada0610212153r191d030bnd70f4acd9b498da5@mail.gmail.com>    JF Mezei wrote: C > (reminds me of the story of australian air force re-using code of F > kangaroos in the bush to simulate troups ... the troups all ran away0 > as soon as the helicopters approached them :-)  J Other way 'round. They used troops to simulate kangaroos. Humorously, theyL forgot to take away the man-portable (kangaroo-portable?) missile launchers.1 http://www.snopes.com/humor/nonsense/kangaroo.htm   B > Being efficient programmers, they just re-appropriated some codeC > originally used to model infantry detachments reactions under the E > same stimuli, changed the mapped icon from a soldier to a kangaroo, / > and increased the figures' speed of movement.  > E > Eager to demonstrate their flying skills for some visiting American C > pilots, the hotshot Aussies "buzzed" the virtual kangaroos in low D > flight during a simulation. The kangaroos scattered, as predicted,> > and the Americans nodded appreciatively . . . and then did a@ > double-take as the kangaroos reappeared from behind a hill andC > launched a barrage of stinger missiles at the hapless helicopter. E > (Apparently the programmers had forgotten the remove "that" part of  > the infantry coding).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:08:48 -0700 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: USB hamster runs H Message-ID: <3f119ada0610212208q7be5361w705c0be230d7adf3@mail.gmail.com>  
 I wibbled:3 > http://www.snopes.com/humor/nonsense/kangaroo.htm  > D > > Being efficient programmers, they just re-appropriated some codeE > > originally used to model infantry detachments reactions under the G > > same stimuli, changed the mapped icon from a soldier to a kangaroo, 1 > > and increased the figures' speed of movement.   B Reading the rest of my own link, some of the details are not true.= Which is a shame, because having kangaroos lob "multi-colored 3 beachballs" at you would be much more entertaining.    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Oct 2006 18:09:11 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. + Message-ID: <4pv626Fkk1kdU1@individual.net>   . In article <3xs_g.22687$2g4.22260@dukeread09>,& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:1 >> In article <wbf_g.22664$2g4.17411@dukeread09>, ) >> 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:I >>>> Actually, C doesn't care about null terminated strings any more than L >>>> any other language.  You are free to create arrays of char that containL >>>> strings in any format you prefer.  All you have to do is write routines >>>> to deal with them.  >>> Not quite true.  >>> @ >>> The compiler itself generate null terminated char arrays for >>> string literals. >>  7 >> And, as I stated later on, so does the Ada compiler.  >  > Yep, but that was wrong too.  C OK, if you say so.  But all the examples I had here (we used to use E Ada and the gnat compiler as the basic beginner programming language) B come have ASCII characters with at least one null at the end.  Ada9 may not use that null for anything, but it's still there.    > F >>                                                       It is not theD >> composition of the character array that is the problem, it is the >> handling of it. > + > To make it safe there should be a length.    True.    > > > And if there is a length, then the null bytes is not needed.  H Also true.  So, why does the Ada compiler put them there?  Probably just4 wasting space as it does in  may other ways as well.   > L >>>> And for all of you who feel much more comfortable with Ada, now that weM >>>> know there is no longer a DEC Ada and GNAT is the future, try writting a M >>>> program with a few strings in it, compile it with GNAT and then pass the O >>>> executable thru the Unix "strings" command.  For those of you not familiar O >>>> with it, it will find and print out the strings in a binary file.  It does Q >>>> this by looking for strings of ASCII that end in a null.  It usually returns O >>>> a lot of bogus strings cause lots of null terminated ASCII happens by pure N >>>> chance, but it also returns all the real strings.  Why do I mention this?L >>>> Because it will print out all the strings in your Ada program.  Anybody- >>>> want to take a guess at what that means? ! >>> The format is not a C string.  >>> 3 >>> The format appears to be (based on a hex dump):  >>> 
 >>> * N bytes 3 >>> * 0-7 nul bytes padding length to multipla of 8  >>> * 4 bytes with 1 >>> * 4 bytes with N >>  3 >> Sure looks like one to the strings command.  :-)  > 0 > Probably because the 1 bytes is not printable.  G After it has seen the first null, the rest means nothing until it finds D the next thing that looks like a string.  Four 1's and four byres ofF relative garbage would not trigger this.  If I can find a machine withF GNAT still on it I will have to try a few tests to see if I can get it; to create a string with no null at the end. (Just curious!)    > F > >                                              As I stated, there isH >> nothing in the world stopping people from changing that constitutes a >> "string" in C.  >  > Ofcourse there are.  > ; > The C standard section 6.4.5 defines how a string literal  > is stored as bytes.   C OK, and who wrote that definition?  And why can't they re-define it B otherwise?  And, if the null terminated string was such a problem./ why didn't they redefine it in the first place?    > K >>                You can easily use the UCSD definition and make the first H >> byte (or more, depending on the size limitation you want to impose) aG >> length indicator and then write replacements for the standard string F >> manipulation routines to deal with them.  Or use the VMS DescriptorE >> concept with the same requirement for new routines.  The source to I >> numerous C compilers are available.  One could easily make all of this P >> totally transparent to the developer.  Why has it not been done?  Apparently,! >> not enough people really care.  >  > It would no longer be C.  G If the ANSI C committee defines it that way, it would most certainly be I C.  (Not my opinion, but when I complain to people about ANSI C not being ; C because it diverged from K&R I am always told the above!)    > C > And if you are making a new language, then you can just as easily  > fix a few other things.   J True, there are already languages that don't have this problem, like PL/1. (Hi Tom! :-)  D But if the ANSI C Committee makes the change, it would still be C byB virtue of their blessing.  So, why has this not been fixed?  ComesA right back to my statement about interest.  Obviously, not enough D people care to make the move.  Heck, it would even be possible to doB it in such a manner that you could maintain complete compatabilityB with existing source code if you really wanted to.  After all, theF data type "string" doesn't currently exist in C.  The ANSI C CommitteeC could add it.  And the language would still be C in the opinions of  the majority of the world.   >  > And that has been done.  > G > None of the big languages invented after 1990 (primarily Java and C#) B > uses the null terminated string concept. They use objects. Which/ > are in reality equivalent to VMS descriptors.   G Take som time to search for some of the recent comments from experts in L the OO field.  Even they are starting to realize the emperor has no clothes.F (Not saying VMS Descriptors are wrong, because I think they are a goodB idea, just pointing out that even the OO community is beginning toD come to the realization that OO is no more the universal answer thanC any other pardigm we have come up with inthe industry in the past.)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:33:29 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. . Message-ID: <_Jt_g.22692$2g4.13916@dukeread09>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:0 > In article <3xs_g.22687$2g4.22260@dukeread09>,( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:? >> And if there is a length, then the null bytes is not needed.  > J > Also true.  So, why does the Ada compiler put them there?  Probably just6 > wasting space as it does in  may other ways as well.  9 Somebody apparently put a 4 byte code of something in it.   E A 4 byte integer with small values tend to always contain null bytes.   4 >>>> The format appears to be (based on a hex dump): >>>> >>>> * N bytes4 >>>> * 0-7 nul bytes padding length to multipla of 8 >>>> * 4 bytes with 1  >>>> * 4 bytes with N 4 >>> Sure looks like one to the strings command.  :-)  I > After it has seen the first null, the rest means nothing until it finds F > the next thing that looks like a string.  Four 1's and four byres of* > relative garbage would not trigger this.  @ It is not 4 bytes with 1 in each. It is 4 bytes with a single 1.
 Longword !  = Which makes it that all Ada strings either has a padding null : byte or a trailing byte with 1 plus 3 trailing null bytes.  @ I dont know if that constant i salways 1, but is was in my test.  G >                                          If I can find a machine with H > GNAT still on it I will have to try a few tests to see if I can get it= > to create a string with no null at the end. (Just curious!)    with Ada.Text_IO;    use Ada.Text_IO;   procedure Test is    begin       Put_Line("1");       Put_Line("22");      Put_Line("333");       Put_Line("4444");      Put_Line("55555");       Put_Line("666666");      Put_Line("7777777");       Put_Line("88888888");      Put_Line("999999999");       Put_Line("AAAAAAAAAA");      Put_Line("BBBBBBBBBBB");       Put_Line("CCCCCCCCCCCC");      Put_Line("DDDDDDDDDDDDD");        Put_Line("EEEEEEEEEEEEEE");!      Put_Line("FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"); 	 end Test;   =   00000001 00000001 00000000 00000031 1............... 0000D0 =   00000002 00000001 00000000 00003232 22.............. 0000E0 =   00000003 00000001 00000000 00333333 333............. 0000F0 =   00000004 00000001 00000000 34343434 4444............ 000100 =   00000005 00000001 00000035 35353535 55555........... 000110 =   00000006 00000001 00003636 36363636 666666.......... 000120 =   00000007 00000001 00373737 37373737 7777777......... 000130 =   00000008 00000001 38383838 38383838 88888888........ 000140 =   00000000 00000039 39393939 39393939 999999999....... 000150 =   41414141 41414141 00000009 00000001 ........AAAAAAAA 000160 =   0000000A 00000001 00000000 00004141 AA.............. 000170 =   00000000 00424242 42424242 42424242 BBBBBBBBBBB..... 000180 =   43434343 43434343 0000000B 00000001 ........CCCCCCCC 000190 =   0000000C 00000001 00000000 43434343 CCCC............ 0001A0 =   00000044 44444444 44444444 44444444 DDDDDDDDDDDDD... 0001B0 =   45454545 45454545 0000000D 00000001 ........EEEEEEEE 0001C0 =   0000000E 00000001 00004545 45454545 EEEEEE.......... 0001D0 =   00464646 46464646 46464646 46464646 FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. 0001E0 =   00000000 000089E0 0000000F 00000001 ............... 0001F0    which is   '1', 7 traling null bytes, 1, 1 $ '2', '2', 6 traling null bytes, 1, 2 ... , '8', '8', '8', '8', '8', '8', '8', '8', 1, 8 ...   F >>>                                              As I stated, there isI >>> nothing in the world stopping people from changing that constitutes a  >>> "string" in C. >> Ofcourse there are. >>< >> The C standard section 6.4.5 defines how a string literal >> is stored as bytes. > E > OK, and who wrote that definition?  And why can't they re-define it  > otherwise?  ; You don't change the language definition in a way that will  break so much code.   > >       And, if the null terminated string was such a problem.1 > why didn't they redefine it in the first place?   9 When it became acknowledges as a problem it was too late.   F > But if the ANSI C Committee makes the change, it would still be C byD > virtue of their blessing.  So, why has this not been fixed?  ComesC > right back to my statement about interest.  Obviously, not enough F > people care to make the move.  Heck, it would even be possible to doD > it in such a manner that you could maintain complete compatabilityD > with existing source code if you really wanted to.  After all, theH > data type "string" doesn't currently exist in C.  The ANSI C CommitteeE > could add it.  And the language would still be C in the opinions of  > the majority of the world.   Enough people care about it.  = They have switched to Java, C# and even C++ with STL strings.   H >> None of the big languages invented after 1990 (primarily Java and C#)C >> uses the null terminated string concept. They use objects. Which 0 >> are in reality equivalent to VMS descriptors. > I > Take som time to search for some of the recent comments from experts in N > the OO field.  Even they are starting to realize the emperor has no clothes.H > (Not saying VMS Descriptors are wrong, because I think they are a goodD > idea, just pointing out that even the OO community is beginning toF > come to the realization that OO is no more the universal answer thanE > any other pardigm we have come up with inthe industry in the past.)   C I think it is rather universal accepted that OOP was the way to go.   ? I do not forsee any mainstream languages being created that are  not object oriented.  : Use of a non object oriented language for a new project is
 an exception.   8 It has been realized that OOP is not the final solution.   So we are heading towards AOP.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2006 14:29:48 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. 3 Message-ID: <D1uY5DBrau50@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <wbf_g.22664$2g4.17411@dukeread09>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G >> Actually, C doesn't care about null terminated strings any more than J >> any other language.  You are free to create arrays of char that containJ >> strings in any format you prefer.  All you have to do is write routines >> to deal with them.  >  > Not quite true.  > > > The compiler itself generate null terminated char arrays for > string literals.  E    And the ANSI language standard includes a library full of routines C    to process null terminated strings.  So C does care, but you can     program around it.   D    Getting back to the OP's issue with COBOL (or did I cross threadsF    somewhere):  it's also possible to generate null terminated stringsD    from DEC's compilers other than C (I've done it), and if you lookE    at the Cobol User's Guide you'll probably find out how.  It's just 2    not as easy as declaring a native COBOL string.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:13:00 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. 1 Message-ID: <ehegbn$5qu$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Jan-Erik,  K First, let me appologize for what (having re-read my post) appeared to be a K pretty personal/specific attack. I was, in fact, ranting at the whole world < and not you, your company, or your application specifically.  / > A user interface that is available everyware.   I I am by no means trying to take that away from you! I simply suggest that J once your web page has been displayed (and whatever button clicked) that aK second pipe be opened (via Java sockets or ActiveX controls or whatever) to L your server to obtain the COBOL controlled data that you spoke of. Look, I'mG not a Web developer and I have no idea what tools you are using or what F security restrictions you're under, but the infrastructure to create aC Socket, Connect to your server and then Send/Recv data is all there 
 somewhere.  H How you keep track of (or tear down) the Socket(s) that you created whenE flicking from Web page to page is up to your Web developers. But rest E assured that they are not required to be Christopher Columbus or Neil J Armstrong with this. Maybe it could be like Oracles JDBC Thin Driver whereJ you download a mini-application to your user PC's. Again, the security and/ performance issues are down to the application.   H I'm just saying that it's one thing to have Fat-Client Syndrome but mostJ people's appear to be positively anorexic! By all means use the ubiquitousJ web interface to inroduce the couple to each other, use the internet, just= stop trying to fit the cammel through the eye of the browser!   9 > And, I don't thing you know enough about "this case"...   K I agree 100% which is why I was asking questions. (But again, not necessary 2 at you, but of anyone who is doing similar things)   Cheers Richard Maher   PS. I  hope "skrev" is good :-)   D "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote in message, news:wL_Zg.20409$E02.7801@newsb.telia.net... > Richard Maher skrev: > > Hi Jan-Erik, > > I > > Just out of curiosity, what exactly are the advantages of using a web  server > > in this case,  > / > A user interface that is available everyware. 9 > And, I don't thing you know enough about "this case"...  >  > Best Regards,  > Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:02:06 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. - Message-ID: <OaB_g.22709$2g4.5720@dukeread09>    Richard Maher wrote:0 >> A user interface that is available everyware. > K > I am by no means trying to take that away from you! I simply suggest that L > once your web page has been displayed (and whatever button clicked) that aM > second pipe be opened (via Java sockets or ActiveX controls or whatever) to N > your server to obtain the COBOL controlled data that you spoke of. Look, I'mI > not a Web developer and I have no idea what tools you are using or what H > security restrictions you're under, but the infrastructure to create aE > Socket, Connect to your server and then Send/Recv data is all there  > somewhere.  < Very likely only port 80 and 443 are open in the firwall for HTTP and HTTPS.   J > How you keep track of (or tear down) the Socket(s) that you created whenG > flicking from Web page to page is up to your Web developers. But rest G > assured that they are not required to be Christopher Columbus or Neil L > Armstrong with this. Maybe it could be like Oracles JDBC Thin Driver where4 > you download a mini-application to your user PC's.  4 Oracle thin JDBC driver are usually run server side.  7 JDBC client side is not widely used (for good reasons).   J > I'm just saying that it's one thing to have Fat-Client Syndrome but mostL > people's appear to be positively anorexic! By all means use the ubiquitousL > web interface to inroduce the couple to each other, use the internet, just? > stop trying to fit the cammel through the eye of the browser!    Often the requirements are:     - able to run in browser     - single sign on     - only HTTP(S)   ( If you want to be fancy then it is AJAX.  7 And that is 100 times worse than normal web technology.   : >> And, I don't thing you know enough about "this case"... > M > I agree 100% which is why I was asking questions. (But again, not necessary 4 > at you, but of anyone who is doing similar things) >  > Cheers Richard Maher > ! > PS. I  hope "skrev" is good :-)   " That means "wrote" in scandinavia.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2006 11:15:04 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>- Subject: Re: VMS DCL script programmer needed B Message-ID: <1161454504.110148.45010@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Kate Schell wrote: > 4 > > Please send resume, with salary requirements to: : [ > and you might want to forward this posting along (if you have not already done so) to Sue   4 Another good place to post OpenVMS specific jobs is:  -      http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?2   B Curiously then most recent entry there is also for a job in Reston VA...   " "Posted by: dmannarano (IP Logged) Date: October 20, 2006 03:35PM< WINbatch scripting contract in Rockville, MD or Reston VA. "  
 Good luck, Hein.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.580 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                nated at 16-OCT-2006 13:31:17.74yT	 <<< PWD 2 >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus" is current directory. <<< CWD info-vax1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.e
 <<< EPSV7 >>> 500 I never heard of the EPSV command.  Try HELP.m
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,15,194)r <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.s >>> 226 Transfer completed.o
 <<< QUIT) >>> 221 QUIT command received. Goodbye.T:   ANONYMOUS    job termi  end routine     I         !%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% )         ! M E N U _ P R O C E S S _ M C L I         !%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 	         ! A         ! Set up the operator ID and initials as symbols so other #         ! programs can access them. A         ! Process the MCL file; and load the internal arrays that /         ! are used to display and run the menu. 	         !          ! RESULT: F         !       menu_info_total% = number of MENU_INFO$(,) rows loadedF         !       menu_menu_total% = number of MENU_MENU$(,) rows loaded;         !       error            = error TRUE or FALSE flag 5         !       fatal            = TRUE or FALSE flag 9         !       action$          = next action to perform 	         ! I         !%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%           routine menu_process_mcl           do             menu_set_up_menu%             menu_init_for_process_mcl %             if  _error  then  exit do              menu_open_mcl_file%             if  _error  then  exit do              menu_read_mcl_file             menu_close_mcl_file $             menu_process_command_end.             menu_info_total% = menu_info_slot%.             menu_menu_total% = menu_menu_slot%#             menu_check_called_menus              menu_build_menu            end do           if  fatal  then #             action$ = "menu_finish"            else&             action$ = "open_all_files"     