1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 23 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 582       Contents:% Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?  DEC Pasca Question Re: DEC Pasca Question Re: DEC Pasca Question Re: DEC Pasca Question DEC Pascal Question  Re: DEC Pascal Question  Re: DFU question Re: Graphic options for DS10L P Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! center!ce% Re: Innovative use of DSSI cabinets ! % Re: Innovative use of DSSI cabinets !  Re: Mylex question Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !)$ Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (now confirmed)# Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. : Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 06:22:22 +01002 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>. Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-jpkqGslSo45U@dave2_os2.home.ours>   + On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:44:36 UTC, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   - > At the risk of starting a religious war....  > @ > I was able to somewhat start CDE on the alpha, targetted at myJ > vaxstation (which confused the hell out of existing windows which becameG > encapsulated in an additional window for each existing window but all B > those windows died when CDE exited, even though they didn't have! > anything to do with the alpha).  > I > Reading the manual, and using some the features, it appears that CDE is D > more polished than the traditional session manager. (for instance,H > ability to quickly install some background image/pattern into the fake2 > background (which isn't really the root window). > 6 > And of course, the file manager seems to be far moreD > usable/sophisticated (closer to what the MAC has had since 1984).  > J > There seems to be a neat function of having different workspaces (so youJ > could have one with all your system management windows, one for "office"F > windows (email, worlk processing etc) , one for programming (all the7 > editor windows for the files you are working on etc).  > H > So this can greatly reduce window clutter. So when you switch from oneJ > workspace to another it is the equivalent of making all existing windowsL > inconised, and expanding all icons related to the workspace you asked for. >  > F > Over the years however, I have heard/read many comments about people3 > sticking to the original session manager desktop.  >  > F > And I can see why. The session manager window gives far more obvious > access to applications.  >  > I > Are there many people who have switched to CDE and are convinced enough G > of its superiority that they can convince others to make the switch ?  > G > Are there many who switch back and forth depending on the position of " > the stars relative to the moon ? >  > E > Are people who stick with the traditional desktop just reluctant to @ > adopt change ? Or does it really end up being simpler and more > productive ?  C I just prefer the sparcity and simplicity of the 'old' desktop but  C then I'm a native english speaker and don't need icons to decipher  F what the functionality of something is. Similarly, I've never felt theF need to use the File Viewer to navigate around disk/directories (TREE F does get used for directory navigation) but I understand why some do. " OTOH I do like the workspace idea.  C At a practical level, the AS200's we got from Digital (as it still  C was) only had 32k and CDE ate a lot of that. They were pretty soon  C upgraded to 64mb. They've nearly all gone now, the onward match of  D Solaris brought thin clients with it. Originally NCD , then Neoware F and now Liscon. I still use a VAX Station for my terminal windows (forE years a 3100-M76 now a 4000-96), I still use/prefer a LK201 keyboard   :-)  BOF moi ?!!.    --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2006 12:15:02 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: DEC Pasca Question A Message-ID: <1161544502.539842.79080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   < Can you tell me where get DEC Pascal Manuals and tutorials ?   Regards    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:56:02 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: DEC Pasca Question J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-66D5CB.21560222102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  A In article <1161544502.539842.79080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,    apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:  > > Can you tell me where get DEC Pascal Manuals and tutorials ? > 	 > Regards   $ All the VMS manuals can be found at:  "  http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc/  H Search for Pascal, and download those manuals. The Pascal "User Manual"  is the best one to start with.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:14:11 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: DEC Pasca Question < Message-ID: <453bd0c0$0$14853$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  = "Paul Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote in message  D news:paul.sture.nospam-66D5CB.21560222102006@mac.sture.homeip.net...C > In article <1161544502.539842.79080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, ! > apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:  > ? >> Can you tell me where get DEC Pascal Manuals and tutorials ?  >>
 >> Regards > & > All the VMS manuals can be found at: > # > http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc/  > I > Search for Pascal, and download those manuals. The Pascal "User Manual"   > is the best one to start with. >  > --   > Paul Sture >   K Then try to buy a used copy of "Writing VAX/VMS Applications Using Pascal"  M by Theo De Klerk (Digital Press, 1991). Sometimes you see them on eBay or at   www.bookfinder.com    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2006 23:57:45 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: DEC Pasca Question * Message-ID: <453c0579$1@ns.langstoeger.at>  b In article <1161544502.539842.79080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes:= >Can you tell me where get DEC Pascal Manuals and tutorials ?   / 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/doc/pascal.html    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2006 12:15:28 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: DEC Pascal QuestionC Message-ID: <1161544528.797474.144650@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   < Can you tell me where get DEC Pascal Manuals and tutorials ?   Regards    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:32:53 +0200 ; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com>   Subject: Re: DEC Pascal Question9 Message-ID: <453bba7e$0$19627$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   + <apogeusistemas@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1161544528.797474.144650@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Can you tell me where get DEC Pascal Manuals and tutorials ?   Try:  ) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/pascal.html   	 Guy Peleg  BRUDEN-OSSG  http://www.brudenossg.com  > 	 > Regards  >        --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:08:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: DFU question , Message-ID: <453BEBDC.FB66F148@teksavvy.com>   David B Sneddon wrote:$ > V3.2 is the latest, available from! > http://www.digiater.nl/dfu.html 5 > Disable the SMG stuff via the logical DFU$NOSMG, by   > setting it to YES or TRUE or 1   Thanks.   H I was under the impression that DFU was really someonthing VMS engineersF volunteered to maintain/write it. Is DFU now totally in the wild, with/ someone not in VMS engineering maintaining it ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:20:08 +0800 ) From: Tim Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L9 Message-ID: <453bfdba$0$19675$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>    FredK wrote:M > As a "special" bonus - if you pick up V8.3 - thumbwheel PS2 mice should now  > have the thumbwheel enabled. >   J Is this CDE only? I am running DECwindows Motif V1.6 on OpenVMS Alpha V8.3F and I don't seem to have a working wheel :-( I'm using a USB MicrosoftG Intellimouse with a PS/2 converter, could the converter be the cause of  my problems?  
 Regards, Tim.    --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:10:44 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com Y Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US support center! center!ce 0 Message-ID: <87fydgl72j.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  5 David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> writes:   / > It is written: "Every (man) has (his) price."   > They may have a price, but IMO, there are a lot with no value.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:10:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon). Subject: Re: Innovative use of DSSI cabinets !+ Message-ID: <4q1u0hFl39ecU3@individual.net>   9 In article <21O_g.421$s6.111@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, 1 	Jack Patteeuw <jack.patteeuw@nospam.net> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote: K >> Today is a true automnal day here in montreal. lots of rain, temperature J >> just above freezing, and periods where the precipitation is in the form >> of very wet snow. >>  - >> Your running shoes are all wet and cold ?   >>  G >> No problem... just put then on the side of the DSSI cabinet. Lots of I >> nice warm air flowing out of there all the time, making your shoes dry ( >> and toasty warm in no time at all !!! >>  K >> Kudos to those Digital cabinet engineers :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) 
 >> :-) ;-) > K > Many, many, MANY moons ago, the back side of a DEC20 did a heck of a job  B > of drying out trousers after a major splash in the parking lot !  F Ha...  What pikers.  I used to heat an entire room, in winter, with my Apollo Workstation.  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:35:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Innovative use of DSSI cabinets !, Message-ID: <453BF22E.55749585@teksavvy.com>   Jack Patteeuw wrote:J > Many, many, MANY moons ago, the back side of a DEC20 did a heck of a jobB > of drying out trousers after a major splash in the parking lot !    H Yeah. While some engineers are busy writing some USB hampster interface,; I have a DSSI clothes dryer in my computer room :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2006 14:36:04 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Mylex question B Message-ID: <1161552964.330933.270750@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   H Vlems wrote:/ > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht ? > news:1161528140.389790.193480@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > >  > > H Vlems wrote: > > > Hello John,  > > > M > > > it's good to know I'm not the only one running 1200's (well, 5305's) at H > > > home. The problem with running ARC is that I use a serial line and > cannot3 > > > find the option to run a program from floppy. J > > > The 1200 (it still is a white box alpha but with an AS1200 5/400 cpu > let's N > > > call it a 1200 shall we?)  came without a VGA card. I installed a Matrox* > > > card but haven't tried that one yet.M > > > The URL is great, thanks! Tried to locate it but wasn't able to find it  > last > > > night.J > > > Right now I use one KZPSM-AA and that works fine. If I don't get the > Mylex 0 > > > to work then I'll order a second KZPSM-AA. > > > 
 > > > Hans > > E > > The RCU manual and a few other online sources make reference to a K > > serial port version of RCU but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I > >  You can use the Matrox card for the ARC bios, however VMS won't like K > > it.  My 5303 came with a Matrox video card which will work for AlphaNT, K > > Linux and Tru64 but not OpenVMS.  What you can do though is set the SRM G > > environment to graphical and run the RCU utilities and once that is K > > done set it back to serial mode to boot VMS.  I can't remember but it's H > > possible you may have to remove the Matrox video card before bootingJ > > VMS.  I seem to recall that the system would halt in the start up whenK > > it detected the Matrox card.  You might try making sure that DECwindows ! > > does't start - that may help.  > >  > >   John H. Reinhardt  > >  > John, J > the RA200RCU utility displays a banner with the string Firmware version: > 3.52 > Should I downgrade to 2.70?  > Hans  D For use with VMS I believe you have to.  AKAIK v2.70 was the highestF DEC firmware version.  I don't know if the SRM will recognize a DAC960D with a newer version.  Maybe it knows what it is but won't boot from it.   C You said the firmware updater didn't find the card though?  This is E where you might have to put it in a PC and use a x86-based utility to 5 downgrade.  That would be uncharted territory for me.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:14:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS + Message-ID: <4q1u8pFl39ecU4@individual.net>   % In article <1161535298.382886@smirk>, 7 	Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:  > Neil Rieck wrote: J >> On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from Parsec P >> telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists. This email also told me L >> how to remove myself from their mailing lists if I so desired. So I hope I >> this action on their part puts to rest the SPAM label someone in this   >> newsgroup hung on them. > G > Why should anybody have to opt-out of something they never asked for?  > E > Anyone who sends me unsolicited e-mail and promises to send me more ( > until I take some action is a spammer. > E > In the last 24 hours, my spam blocks stopped 2782 unwanted e-mails. D > How long would it take to opt-out of all of those?   Why should I? > 6 > Parsec requires you to opt-out.   They are spammers.  C Unless you signed up for one of their webinars and didn't bother to D read the agreement that said they could send you appropriate emails.   That's how I go on their list.  D Of course, they turned me off when after re-arranging my schedule inC order to watch the webinar they notified me at the last minute that E I was being moved to another time-slot.  One that I was not free for. E At that point, I didn't bother to opt-out I just set all their emails + to be stored in a mailbox called /dev/null.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:41:49 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk% Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) , Message-ID: <ehge1d$qel$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  h In article <453b6ffb$0$14862$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:H >On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from Parsec N >telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists. This email also told me @ >how to remove myself from their mailing lists if I so desired.   ) But they are still asking you to opt-out. O What they should have done was say that you would be removed from their mailing N list unless you sent them a mail message (or took some other specified action)  ie unless you explicitly opt-in.       >So I hope  G >this action on their part puts to rest the SPAM label someone in this  D >newsgroup hung on them. IMHO, spam is the "penny stock" and "penis = >enlargement" crap I don't give a damn about and can't stop.    2 SPAM is commonly defined as Unsolicited Bulk Email   see   ' http://www.spamhaus.org/definition.html     E Since you didn't explicitly opt-in to their mailing list this mail is P unsolicited. Since a mailing-list is meant to send to multiple people this is a 
 Bulk mailing. 3 Hence this mail is SPAM. The content is irrelevent.       
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >Invitations to L >OpenVMS webinars, OpenVMS training and OpenVMS support etc. is something I 0 >do care about and can stop so this is not spam. >  >Neil Rieck  >Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >Ontario, Canada. # >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:29:43 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) < Message-ID: <453bd464$0$14871$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  M "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>  / wrote in message news:ehgakj$kvd$1@online.de... D > In article <453b6ffb$0$14862$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil' > Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >  [...snip...] > C > The standard definition of SPAM is unsolicited bulk email.  It is J > usually commercial.  (It makes little sense to spend even a little moneyE > to send unsolicited emails to a large number of people.)  Not bulk? @ > Fine.  I remember back when I was looking for a job I got someF > unsolicited emails offering me a job.  No problem.  Not unsolicited?E > Fine.  It 20 thousand people sign up for my newsletter, no problem. $ > It's the combination which is bad. > I > Suppose you got 1000 emails each day saying that you were "on the list" H > and providing you with instructions on how to get off the list?  WouldH > you still not mind?  (Of course, most "click here to be removed" linksJ > merely confirm that the email has actually been read, making the address > more valuable to spammers.)  > G I see your point but must admit that email coming from certain sources  J (OpenVMS vendors, OpenVMS colleagues) is perceived differently by me than 0 other kinds of topics I don't give a damn about.  L We've all griped about OpenVMS not being embraced by the computer public at I large. So I, for one, will never be pissed off when one of these OpenVMS  L companies takes the occasional liberty with my INBOX. As I wrote previously K in another posting, clicking on a opt-out link with a reputable company is  K not the same as clicking on the opt-out link of a professional spammer who  > will almost always sell your email address to another spammer.  @ Just my two cents worth, of course. Others may be less tolerant.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 17:45:56 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) G Message-ID: <KbmdncZULPgIe6bYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Neil Rieck wrote:    ...   C   So I, for one, will never be pissed off when one of these OpenVMS 7 > companies takes the occasional liberty with my INBOX.   H The point (as others have observed) is not only that they took a single H liberty but that they required you to take some action to prevent their 2 taking future liberties in unspecified quantities.  D If they're going to send unsolicited ads at all (itself a debatable B practice), the least they should do is send them only *once* (and G preferably as a personal contact - e.g., "We saw your contributions to  H comp.os.vms and thought that you might be interested in our offerings") 7 unless the recipient opts *in* for additional contacts.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:13:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) , Message-ID: <453BED25.9BBBE39A@teksavvy.com>   Neil Rieck wrote:  > H > On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from Parsec7 > telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists.     That is a fair policy.  F It appears that Parsec made a big mistake with that original spam, andM perhaps they have now learned and will be far more careful about direct mail.   G In my opinion, the best way for those companies is to sponsor the DECUS F newsletters (or whatever name the user group has this week). This way,D they can put a short mesasge in the newsletter pointing to their web! site and describing what they do.   C Once they have someone as a customer, then they can direct mail the E person all they want. But to reach new customers, they really need to + use DECUS or some other advertising medium.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:38:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) , Message-ID: <453BF2E5.711E38B9@teksavvy.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: + > But they are still asking you to opt-out.   E It depends on how they obtained your email address to begin with.  If G they got it without yoru explicit permission, then sending email to you E is SPM. But if you originally subscribed to thir services or became a G customer and didn't check the "I don't want mailings" box, then you are " fair game to receive their emails.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:26:24 -0400 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) 6 Message-ID: <02cf01c6f642$415cc0f0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>  / From: "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> I >> On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from Parsec 7 >> telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists.  >  > That is a fair policy. >...  H No it is not. They did a list-washing and got rid of people who did not M complain. They still do not have a valid opt-in list. Instructions on how to  L get a good opt-in list have been posted but they chose to ingore the advice  and continue to spam.    Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca 9 CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail     ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:07 -0400 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) 6 Message-ID: <02d101c6f645$fcfd41b0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>   ----- Original Message -----  / From: "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  >...G > is SPM. But if you originally subscribed to thir services or became a I > customer and didn't check the "I don't want mailings" box, then you are $ > fair game to receive their emails. >   K I do not recall seeing any "I don't want mailings" box when I singed up to  J attend one of their seminars. That is the same trick Air Canada uses when L you purchase a ticket on-line; They insist you give them your email address M so they can send you the electronic ticket but they never bother telling you  4 that they will also sign you up for some newsletter.   Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca 8 CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:06:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) , Message-ID: <453C2396.F1158517@teksavvy.com>   Peter Weaver wrote: I > No it is not. They did a list-washing and got rid of people who did not N > complain. They still do not have a valid opt-in list. Instructions on how toM > get a good opt-in list have been posted but they chose to ingore the advice  > and continue to spam.   F In my case, I received just one email, and following my outburst here,F got a message advising me they had taken me off their list. So from my/ point of view, they are not continuing to spam.   H If they are continuing to send emails to large number of people, then itH isn't correct. I would have thought they woudl have learned their lesson after the first message.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:00:27 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) < Message-ID: <453c2ff6$0$14881$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  ? "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> wrote in message  0 news:02cd01c6f641$e16c0de0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX... > ----- Original Message -----   [...snip...] > I > That confirms that Parsec is still spamming. When companies spam it is  G > either because they are clueless or because they are not a reputable  I > company. When they first started spamming the question was open, but I  K > posted a high level view of what they needed to do to get a valid opt-in   > list, Larry posted a link to  J > http://www.cluelessmailers.org/info/listmanagement.html with details of H > what I posted. If Parsec read those emails (and I do not see how they G > could have missed both of them) then it becomes clear that we can no  9 > longer consider the possibility that they are clueless.  > K > Neil, please remember that CONTENT DOES NOT MATTER! Spam is spam. A long  I > time ago I had a couple as a neighbour and her brother liked receiving  M > pyramid scam spam since "So far I just break even when I send in my money,  I > but that is because I get in too late, one of these days I will get in  H > early enough to make my millions." The first and only time I ever met F > Terry Shannon he told me right away that he liked getting spam from J > Canadian pharmacies since they let him buy his pills cheaper. For every F > piece of spam out there you might be able to find someone who likes F > getting that particular spam, but just because you like getting VMS K > related spam does not mean that everyone else will too. CONTENT DOES NOT  9 > MATTER! Spam is spam. What Parsec is doing is spamming.  >  > Peter Weaver > www.weaverconsulting.ca : > CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail  H A wise man once said "try not to become trapped by the principle of the L excluded middle. There are 1000 shades of grey between black and white". So + I guess we'll have to agree to disagree :-)        ###   F But on second thought, consider the following quote from the American  Heritage Dictionary = SPAM: Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent  M indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk   e-mail  G Was the e-mail unsolicited? Maybe. But they got my name from a webinar  ! signup list, not another spammer.  Was the e-mail commercial? Yes. L Was the e-mail sent indiscriminately to multiple newsgroups? No. Maybe only  indiscriminately to one.F Was the e-mail junk? No. Since it was about OpenVMS, and I care about  OpenVMS.  J Not what you would call a ringing endorsement for the definition of spam. M But I still accept the fact that other people may be a little more sensitive   about this.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:19:43 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) 9 Message-ID: <qoOdneVX46U5r6HYnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@libcom.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: O > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>  1 > wrote in message news:ehgakj$kvd$1@online.de... E >> In article <453b6ffb$0$14862$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil ( >> Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >> > [...snip...]D >> The standard definition of SPAM is unsolicited bulk email.  It isK >> usually commercial.  (It makes little sense to spend even a little money F >> to send unsolicited emails to a large number of people.)  Not bulk?A >> Fine.  I remember back when I was looking for a job I got some G >> unsolicited emails offering me a job.  No problem.  Not unsolicited? F >> Fine.  It 20 thousand people sign up for my newsletter, no problem.% >> It's the combination which is bad.  >>J >> Suppose you got 1000 emails each day saying that you were "on the list"I >> and providing you with instructions on how to get off the list?  Would I >> you still not mind?  (Of course, most "click here to be removed" links K >> merely confirm that the email has actually been read, making the address  >> more valuable to spammers.) >>I > I see your point but must admit that email coming from certain sources  L > (OpenVMS vendors, OpenVMS colleagues) is perceived differently by me than 2 > other kinds of topics I don't give a damn about. > N > We've all griped about OpenVMS not being embraced by the computer public at K > large. So I, for one, will never be pissed off when one of these OpenVMS  N > companies takes the occasional liberty with my INBOX. As I wrote previously M > in another posting, clicking on a opt-out link with a reputable company is  M > not the same as clicking on the opt-out link of a professional spammer who  @ > will almost always sell your email address to another spammer. > B > Just my two cents worth, of course. Others may be less tolerant. >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html< > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html  >  >   G I think that most will agree that the definition of SPAM, at least for  K most people, is "unsolicited email".  This is a definition, not an opinion.   H There can be many types of spam.  Some you may be glad to receive, some > you may be neutral on, and some you wish you'd never received.  H Each person should be free to determine his/her own tolerance for spam. I   Others should respect that decision.  Don't ask others to hold grudges   for you.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:23:42 -0400 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> - Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (now confirmed) 6 Message-ID: <02cd01c6f641$e16c0de0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>   ----- Original Message -----  ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> I > On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from Parsec  L > telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists. This email also told I > me how to remove myself from their mailing lists if I so desired. So I  M > hope this action on their part puts to rest the SPAM label someone in this  E > newsgroup hung on them. IMHO, spam is the "penny stock" and "penis  M > enlargement" crap I don't give a damn about and can't stop. Invitations to  M > OpenVMS webinars, OpenVMS training and OpenVMS support etc. is something I  1 > do care about and can stop so this is not spam.   G That confirms that Parsec is still spamming. When companies spam it is  E either because they are clueless or because they are not a reputable  G company. When they first started spamming the question was open, but I  I posted a high level view of what they needed to do to get a valid opt-in   list, Larry posted a link to  M http://www.cluelessmailers.org/info/listmanagement.html with details of what  L I posted. If Parsec read those emails (and I do not see how they could have J missed both of them) then it becomes clear that we can no longer consider ' the possibility that they are clueless.   I Neil, please remember that CONTENT DOES NOT MATTER! Spam is spam. A long  G time ago I had a couple as a neighbour and her brother liked receiving  K pyramid scam spam since "So far I just break even when I send in my money,  M but that is because I get in too late, one of these days I will get in early  F enough to make my millions." The first and only time I ever met Terry G Shannon he told me right away that he liked getting spam from Canadian  M pharmacies since they let him buy his pills cheaper. For every piece of spam  C out there you might be able to find someone who likes getting that  M particular spam, but just because you like getting VMS related spam does not  I mean that everyone else will too. CONTENT DOES NOT MATTER! Spam is spam.  ! What Parsec is doing is spamming.    Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca 9 CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail     ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:11:41 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.) Message-ID: <xvO_g.1954$rx.1288@trnddc04>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > John Santos wrote: >  >>[snip]C >>On the other hand, "UCX" implies a fairly old version, since they E >>changed the name to "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" some time ago,  >>[snip] >  > O > Well, no , not really. "UCX" is only three letters while "TCP/IP Services for 0 > OpenVMS" is four words, 27 keystrokes to type. > Q > Which would *YOU* rather repeat umpteen times in a Usenet post / presentation /  > document / ... ? > > > When I say "UCX" most everyone knows what I'm talking about. >   D ERRMMM, David, I think I was making exactly that point in part of my post that you snipped!!!  :-)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2006 18:33:44 -0700 From: dooleys@snowy.net.au, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.C Message-ID: <1161567224.309054.323610@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   * You should google for vms_check on .hp.com; This will give you an overview of your system configuration  Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:28:03 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.9 Message-ID: <qoOdneRX46UKqaHYnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@libcom.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > John Santos wrote:	 >> [snip] D >> On the other hand, "UCX" implies a fairly old version, since theyF >> changed the name to "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" some time ago,	 >> [snip]  > O > Well, no , not really. "UCX" is only three letters while "TCP/IP Services for 0 > OpenVMS" is four words, 27 keystrokes to type. > Q > Which would *YOU* rather repeat umpteen times in a Usenet post / presentation /  > document / ... ? > > > When I say "UCX" most everyone knows what I'm talking about. >   F No, I don't think so.  When I read UCX I think "DEC's TCP/IP services H prior to version 5.0.  When I read TCP/IP and we're talking about VMS I , think DEC's TCP/IP services V5.0 and beyond.  & UCX and 8086 are not current products.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:00:43 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. + Message-ID: <4q1terFl39ecU1@individual.net>   9 In article <2r6dnTFV69sFA6bYnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > D >> I didn't say it was a good thing.  I only meant to point out thatD >> ANSI has had  no problem in the past with changing the definitionD >> of a language while keeping the same name.  While many VMS peopleG >> are sure to disagree, using BASIC for anything is a bad idea (IMHO!)  > K > Yeah, many will disagree with that statement.  Not interested in arguing  J > the issue.  However, I'd like to know just why you'd make this comment. J >   Staying away from issues such as VAX/DEC BASIC being limited to a VMS J > environment, and Basic Plus being limited to RSTS/E, issues not limited ? > to these languages, what are your reasons for your statement?   J BASIC is and always was a toy language.  It (like Pascal) was designed forI a specific purpose and then found itself used for everything else.  There * were always better languages for any task.   > 2 >>  You need never remove the old method, you just" >> discourage its use (like GOTO). > # > What are your issues with GOTO?     D Not my idea.  It is people of much greater stature in the discipline" than I.  For example Dykstra.  :-)  C >                                 What really gets to me is people  H > badmouthing something that every computer language is dependent upon. F > Name just one commercial computer system that could exist without a  > branch instruction.   F I believe the argument has to do with level of abstraction.  It is notF that a computer should not be able to "GOTO" but that good programmingF practice using any fairly modern language dictates that no programmers  logic should have a need for it.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:03:23 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. + Message-ID: <4q1tjrFl39ecU2@individual.net>   . In article <87bqo445ig.fsf@news.bourguet.org>,- 	Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> writes: 7 > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  > H >> The history on this is that someone (I forget his name) wrote a paper9 >> with a title something like "GOTO Considered Harmful".  > 2 > Dijkstra see: http://www.acm.org/classics/oct95/  A Thank you, I mis-spelled his name.  (No dis-respect meant, but we  don't always agree either.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 17:56:36 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. . Message-ID: <mOR_g.22728$2g4.22622@dukeread09>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:0 > In article <_Jt_g.22692$2g4.13916@dukeread09>,( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:> >> You don't change the language definition in a way that will >> break so much code. > C > I have already posted a method that would allow future code to be D > string safe as well as make slow conversion (as bugs are found and* > fixed) without breaking existing code.     The string type approach.   > If you keep the char and just add a string type, then you will not break any existing code.   This what C++ did.  6 STL string must be around 15 years old. And it has not0 nearly replaced null terminated char arrays yet.   But maybe in another 15 years.   It doesn't work.  < >> When it became acknowledges as a problem it was too late. > E > It is never too late.   If the problem is seen as serious enough it  > will be fixed.   People realize the problem.   ) And they are changing to other languages.   : Non OO languages are considered obsolete in most areas, so% noone sees the need for this feature.    >> Enough people care about it.  > H > Apparently not, or they would either fix it themselves or be clamoringJ > for the standards bodies to fix it.  Or, as a minimum, some entrepreneur: > would be making a fortune selling "The Safe C Compiler".  B The explanation followed in next sentence, so rather poor quoting.  @ >> They have switched to Java, C# and even C++ with STL strings. > E > Java is certainly no replacement for C.  Ever try writting an OS in H > Java?  Don't really know much about C# except the driving force behindF > it was corporate politics rather than technical superiority.  And asE > for C++, doesn't it still support null terminated strings alongside  > better ways to do it?   : C# was definatetly technology driven to provide MS with an alternative to Java.  E What is wrong with writing an OS in Java ? To be more precisely: most  of the OS in Java ?   8 MS has already made a toy OS with most of the code being) managed (equivalent to running in a JVM).   J >>>> None of the big languages invented after 1990 (primarily Java and C#)E >>>> uses the null terminated string concept. They use objects. Which 2 >>>> are in reality equivalent to VMS descriptors. > G > And neither of the examples provided are suitable or were intended to F > do the things C was created to do.  Prove me wrong, rewrite any UnixD > kernel in either language.  I'll make it easy for you, you can useI > Ultrix-11 as your guinea pig.  It's relatively small as Unix kernels go H > and all the sources are available.  Oh wait.  You can't write an OS inE > Java.  It only runs in a Virtual Machine which requires an OS and a ? > very limited subset of existing hardware in order to run it!!   " Your view about OS's are outdated.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:18:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. , Message-ID: <453BEE3F.67C6517B@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:C > of a language while keeping the same name.  While many VMS people F > are sure to disagree, using BASIC for anything is a bad idea (IMHO!)  D Warning: Dave Froble is known to threathen people with his aluminiumF baseball bats...  If I don't mention that 4 digit word starting with 8G and ending with 086 for a while, Mr Froble may redirect his bats to you $ because you mention BASIC was bad...   :-)    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.582 ************************