1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 23 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 583       Contents: alpha 2100 available Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?! Re: Another Vax/Alpha/VMS triumph % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ? % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ? % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?  DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report! Free Disk Drives - Central London % Re: Free Disk Drives - Central London  Fw: FTP fails to start HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts  Re: LAN failover Re: LAN failover Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !)- Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 $ Re: Running a news server on OpenVMS$ Re: Running a news server on OpenVMS* Re: SAS desupport article from openvms.org5 SimH (v3.6-1), MicroVAX 3900, and console environment # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. : Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server./ Where is the documentation on password history? 3 Re: Where is the documentation on password history? 0 [Change topic] Bug in TCP/IP Services V5.4 ECO 6  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 08:33:21 -0700  From: "H" <hvanderw@comcast.net> Subject: alpha 2100 available B Message-ID: <1161617601.755350.127550@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  B I have an alpha 2100 system with the following config available in7 Grand Rapids MI area for anyone who wont throw it away!    dual 275MHZ processors  
 512 MB memory    6 2.0 GB drives    Dec NIC card and video card   B Please contact me of line if you are interested.  I really hate to throw it away % my email is usedalpha at altl dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 05:16:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453C882A.8110A5CD@teksavvy.com>  G Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE C first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and % EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?   C This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base D reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theH same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aP VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 02:24:57 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? A Message-ID: <1161595497.799900.93190@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei schrieb:   I > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE E > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ' > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > E > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base F > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theJ > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aR > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  D I normally solve this 'problem' by either using logical names, whichE are created during application startup or by using rooted directories  similar to VMS itself.  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 05:29:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453C8B5D.B51221B8@teksavvy.com>   Cluster-Karl wrote: F > I normally solve this 'problem' by either using logical names, whichG > are created during application startup or by using rooted directories  > similar to VMS itself.  H Yeah, but say you have a DECUS utility like VERB. This means you need toH have 2 directories for the same utility,m one for VAX and one for Alpha.G It is thus harder to maintain the system because you have 2 directories % to update everytime you make changes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:39:21 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 5 Message-ID: <slrnejp3e9.423.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   [ In article <453C8B5D.B51221B8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > Cluster-Karl wrote: G >> I normally solve this 'problem' by either using logical names, which H >> are created during application startup or by using rooted directories >> similar to VMS itself.  > J > Yeah, but say you have a DECUS utility like VERB. This means you need toJ > have 2 directories for the same utility,m one for VAX and one for Alpha.I > It is thus harder to maintain the system because you have 2 directories ' > to update everytime you make changes.   $ What about creative use of DCL$PATH?  ? E.g. SYLOGIN defines DCL$PATH to use arch-specific search path?    -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 07:56:22 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 3 Message-ID: <KpOBTjFUogFV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <453C882A.8110A5CD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  I > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE E > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ' > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?   F    It is possible, but would involve a non-trivial, non-supported hack
    to DCL.  C    Try writing a command file to do the above, then create a symbol C    for that command file, but don't call it "RUN" or you'll step on     yourself someday.  J    Another approach you may wish to consider is to stay with the standard J    extensions, but separate subdirectories for architecure specific files F    like objects and executables.  Then sripts can be easily written to6    setup or find programs using f$getsyi("arch_name").   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 07:58:23 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 3 Message-ID: <2ifpS1LPAs10@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <453C8B5D.B51221B8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Cluster-Karl wrote: G >> I normally solve this 'problem' by either using logical names, which H >> are created during application startup or by using rooted directories >> similar to VMS itself.  > J > Yeah, but say you have a DECUS utility like VERB. This means you need toJ > have 2 directories for the same utility,m one for VAX and one for Alpha.I > It is thus harder to maintain the system because you have 2 directories ' > to update everytime you make changes.   E   It's not that bad if you keep the source in one place and only have F   two copies of the binaries.  Every time you make a copy of a souce, $   you double the maintenance effort.  B   Either way, you have to log onto two machines to compile for two   architectures.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 07:14:09 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? B Message-ID: <1161612848.987559.44000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote: I > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE E > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ' > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > E > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base F > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theJ > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aR > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  D I understand the issue.  I do wish that when the Alpha came out, theB default image type was something a little different, like .AXE, to avoid this problem.   G Of course, maybe you could hack the image activator to look for another  file type..    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 09:25:59 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? A Message-ID: <1161620759.010391.60980@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: I > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE E > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ' > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > E > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base F > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theJ > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aR > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  D Just keep separate directories and use f$getsyi to get arch_name and@ assign the default or run and link-target path/searchlist in the login.com accordingly.  > Common code base is fine, but you'd still need to do somethingG "special" to create the special extensions. It's a heck of a lot easier G to set up and to maintain if you define a logical to point to the right F directory when you log in to the production and development system(s).   JF Mezei wrote:  > Cluster-Karl wrote: H > > I normally solve this 'problem' by either using logical names, whichI > > are created during application startup or by using rooted directories  > > similar to VMS itself. > J > Yeah, but say you have a DECUS utility like VERB. This means you need toJ > have 2 directories for the same utility,m one for VAX and one for Alpha.I > It is thus harder to maintain the system because you have 2 directories ' > to update everytime you make changes.   C So? You'd still need to generate two copies of EXE and give each of G them a special name. Common items that are arch independent can be kept . in the "top" directory of the search list. ie:   $ arch = f$getsyi("arch_name")5 $ define exec_share disk:[execs]  ! shared stuff here F $ define exec_arch  disk:[execs.'arch']  ! for link/exe=exec_arch:prog targetE $ define execs disk:[execs],disk:[execs.'arch'] ! for set default, or  run execs:prog  D You'd still need to log into the other system and repeat, or setup a% way to "tell" the other system do it.   G Giving it some thought, you could create a development environment that , would build both types of exe automagically.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 05:37:39 -0700) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> * Subject: Re: Another Vax/Alpha/VMS triumphC Message-ID: <1161607059.789382.262500@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Sharon, C I send out OpenVMS Pearls, which you have probably seen here in the F newsgroup would you mind if I used this one as a VMS Pearl (again).  ID used you once before a few years ago?  My email distribution list isA about 4K folks all interested in VMS and they will love this one.   ) Just let me know either here or on email.  thanks Sue   
 Sharon wrote: I > Just got an email about a successful project completion at work and had Q > to share.  If you all remember, we do 911 Dispatching software on Vax and Alpha L > platforms.  We've had a team working on a Vax to Alpha upgrade for a LARGEQ > customer over the past year or two.  This one happened to be the version of our O > software written entirely in Macro - the oldest system still in use, I think. F > 	They went live on Tuesday.  Total downtime to the users to swap theM > hardware out from under the Macro system:  4 minutes.  No serious problems,  > only a few cosmetic ones. E > 	I'm not in a position to publicize this, but I think HP should use . > stories like this to laude *their* products. >  >  - Sharon $ > "Gravity...  is a harsh mistress!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:21:52 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> . Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-13D4B6.12215223102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  ? In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-jpkqGslSo45U@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 4  "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:  - > On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:44:36 UTC, JF Mezei  ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >  > > G > > Are people who stick with the traditional desktop just reluctant to B > > adopt change ? Or does it really end up being simpler and more > > productive ? > E > I just prefer the sparcity and simplicity of the 'old' desktop but  E > then I'm a native english speaker and don't need icons to decipher  H > what the functionality of something is. Similarly, I've never felt theH > need to use the File Viewer to navigate around disk/directories (TREE H > does get used for directory navigation) but I understand why some do. $ > OTOH I do like the workspace idea. > E > At a practical level, the AS200's we got from Digital (as it still  E > was) only had 32k and CDE ate a lot of that. They were pretty soon  E > upgraded to 64mb. They've nearly all gone now, the onward match of  F > Solaris brought thin clients with it. Originally NCD , then Neoware H > and now Liscon. I still use a VAX Station for my terminal windows (forG > years a 3100-M76 now a 4000-96), I still use/prefer a LK201 keyboard   > :-)  BOF moi ?!!.   G In contrast I never had the luxury of DECwindows until CDE was already  G available, and started with that. The workspace idea is excellent when  H you are managing multiple systems -put all the development boxes in one E wind, test ones in the next, and so on, and given the small screen I  2 have on my home system, it's useful there as well.  D Nearly forgot the wonderful VAXstation 2000! With only 6(?) MB RAM, G there wasn't enough left once DECwindows had loaded to do much serious  H work, so I ran VUE instead. The RD54 also yielded a lot of useful space  doing that.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 07:51:33 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?3 Message-ID: <Pr+JxUZBeD1E@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <paul.sture.nospam-13D4B6.12215223102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: > F > Nearly forgot the wonderful VAXstation 2000! With only 6(?) MB RAM, I > there wasn't enough left once DECwindows had loaded to do much serious  J > work, so I ran VUE instead. The RD54 also yielded a lot of useful space 
 > doing that.   G    6MB?  Never owned one with that option.  We bought 4 truely diskless G    VS 2000 with 4MB each when they were the only windowing wokstations  *    DEC sold, running the precursor to X11.  E    When DECwindows first shipped as an X11 based product (pre-Motif), C    DEC provided fairly upgrades consisting of 12MB boards and small G    page/swap disks.  This was the first software product I'd seen that  D    required more RAM than All-In-1.  With the upgraded hardware a VS%    2000 could sort of support 1 user.   '    Our Macintosh users were not amused.   F    So we went out and orderd VS 3100 as soon as they started shipping.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 12:25:25 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?3 Message-ID: <+MaGLXla8yjH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <paul.sture.nospam-D68322.15365823102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:  @ > I found mine perfectly acceptable using VUE (the precursor to G > DECwindows. At the time I had a regression testing product on it and  H > with that could simulate a fair number of users running a simple data + > entry application using pseudo terminals.   D    Yep, VUE obeyed the KISS principle.  But I still miss features of(    the pre-Motif DEC X11 window manager.  F    The first time I saw X11 really abuse a processor was when I set upH    Linux 0.98 on a 386 and found the XFree86 server would run as a load E    of 1 when idle.  Good thing we didn't really need graphics on that 
    system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:48:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: DS10L surgery report , Message-ID: <453C81BB.7A7C2C95@teksavvy.com>  G Tonight, I embarked into a fairly minor surgery for my DS10L, namely to G improve its ventilation characteristics. I am not comfortable with such @ a hot portion of the machine in term of long term survivability.   part 1:  Fan intakes.   H The fan intakes (as well as the outless for the rear fan) are just small/ holes through the metal, thus reducing airflow. H So, with some cutting pliers, I set out to remove the "perforated" areas6 in front of each fan to give it easier access to air.   H Removing the front bezel is not easy. The screws holding the fans to theG bezel are very tight. (and there are 3 easy screws holding the bezel to 7 the metal which are easier, but one is hard to access).   F Once the fans are removed, it is farly easy with the cutting pliers toC just cut each strand of metal betwene the holes and thus remove the H section of metal in front of the fan. Then, with vise grips, you lock onH to the sharp sections protruding and just fold them contsntly until theyG break off. This not only removes sharp edges left from the cutting with D cliers, but also enlarges the available ara for the fan to suck air.K Make sure you are very careful with any dust and particles that is created.   H When putting things back, make sure you screw the plastic bezel back on,F especially the left screw (where there is only one fan) before you putH the fan back in. (otherwise it blocks access to the area.). Removing the. disk drive also greatly helps to do this work.  C The rear fan is harder to work on because of that silly handle they F placed over the outlet. And access os restricted by the cover as well.D It is impossible to give that fan full air flow because part of thatD handle obscructs the airflow. Am seriously considering removing thatG handle. The top right attachement point blocks a large area or the fan. B (I consider this is design flaw since they could have extened thatF handle so the attach points would have enough distance in between them( to prevent them from hindering airflow.)       Other modifications;  F The rear-left vent exhibited asymetrical airflow. The front portion ofF the outlet allowed cool air to come out while the back portion allowed( very hot but low volume air to come out.  D By plugging about half of that vent (the front portion), this forcesP cool air to travel further towards the back of the unit to help cool components.    F The power Supply has 2 small fans ahead of it. Because of the way theyC are mounted, they "bleed" air into the space above the power supply E instead of forcing it through the power supply. Metalic duct tape did 
 the trick.  C Also, because the power supply has its own air inlet on the side, I F didn't want the valuable cool air from the 3 front fans to be drawn byB the power supply fans. So metalic duct tape used to block the gapsB between the main section and the second drive bay (where the powerG supply draws its air.  This ensures that the 3 front fans push air over D the electronics towards the back. Should I install a second drive in* that bay, I may have to revisit this area.  F And a final modification was inserting a plastic strip between the hotF CPU air outlet and the PCI riser card. Hot air was bleeding across theF card to heat the PCI card and electronics below it. This plastic stripF forces the hot air to exhaust towards the back as it should instead ofG leaking back into the electronics area. (I used a flexible plastic from G Michelin tyre packaging which seems heat resistant).  I also used a bit D of conventional duct tape to block any hot air from leaking from the: front area between the PCI riser card and the CPU housing.    C Prior to these modifications, system temperatures hovered at 46/47.   E After first batch of changes, it went down to 44. After I covered the H front space between PCI riser card and CPU block with duct tape the tempF dropped to 43. And the area above the PCI card is now cool, whereas inB the past it was quite warm.  By ensuring that all the very hot CPUH exhaust is directed towards the rear and not allow it to bleed back into6 the system, it seems to make a non trivial difference.  H What I don't quite understand is why they didn't simply duct the hot CPUH exhaust directly to the outside instead of dumping it to the back of theD cabinet and heat the components that are unluckily located there andF then use a second fan further away to finally push that air out. (withB second fan not as powerful as the blower use for the CPU housing).    C (I realise that they had to work within the confines of an existing H motherboard which they couldn't change, but ventilation is one area that they had to redesign anyways).    H BTW, to see the CPU, you need to remove the 2 blue "screws" from the topE of the CPU block. You can then lift the assembly out and see the CPU. G The assembly contains the fan and the heat sink as well as the housing. + The heat sink is makde of very this blades.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:51:41 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> ! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report + Message-ID: <4q47ttFhsl0bU1@individual.net>   & On 2006-10-23 10:48, "JF Mezei" wrote:   > [...]  > J > The fan intakes (as well as the outless for the rear fan) are just small1 > holes through the metal, thus reducing airflow.   9 But blocking radio frequency emissions quite reliably ...   J > So, with some cutting pliers, I set out to remove the "perforated" areas8 > in front of each fan to give it easier access to air.   4 Opening a barn door for emissions and EMI issues ...  F Rule of thumb: holes in the metal shielding mustn'e have a diameter ofC more than 10% of the shortest wavelength of interest, 5% preferred.    > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:59:35 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report 0 Message-ID: <12jpt7rfbim6k92@news.supernews.com>  B i hate to be a killjoy but JF you have just voided your warranty !   David    --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:453C81BB.7A7C2C95@teksavvy.com...I > Tonight, I embarked into a fairly minor surgery for my DS10L, namely to I > improve its ventilation characteristics. I am not comfortable with such B > a hot portion of the machine in term of long term survivability. >  > part 1:  Fan intakes.  > J > The fan intakes (as well as the outless for the rear fan) are just small1 > holes through the metal, thus reducing airflow. J > So, with some cutting pliers, I set out to remove the "perforated" areas7 > in front of each fan to give it easier access to air.  > J > Removing the front bezel is not easy. The screws holding the fans to theI > bezel are very tight. (and there are 3 easy screws holding the bezel to 9 > the metal which are easier, but one is hard to access).  > H > Once the fans are removed, it is farly easy with the cutting pliers toE > just cut each strand of metal betwene the holes and thus remove the J > section of metal in front of the fan. Then, with vise grips, you lock onJ > to the sharp sections protruding and just fold them contsntly until theyI > break off. This not only removes sharp edges left from the cutting with F > cliers, but also enlarges the available ara for the fan to suck air.D > Make sure you are very careful with any dust and particles that is created. > J > When putting things back, make sure you screw the plastic bezel back on,H > especially the left screw (where there is only one fan) before you putJ > the fan back in. (otherwise it blocks access to the area.). Removing the0 > disk drive also greatly helps to do this work. > E > The rear fan is harder to work on because of that silly handle they H > placed over the outlet. And access os restricted by the cover as well.F > It is impossible to give that fan full air flow because part of thatF > handle obscructs the airflow. Am seriously considering removing thatI > handle. The top right attachement point blocks a large area or the fan. D > (I consider this is design flaw since they could have extened thatH > handle so the attach points would have enough distance in between them* > to prevent them from hindering airflow.) >  >  >  > Other modifications; > H > The rear-left vent exhibited asymetrical airflow. The front portion ofH > the outlet allowed cool air to come out while the back portion allowed* > very hot but low volume air to come out. > F > By plugging about half of that vent (the front portion), this forcesF > cool air to travel further towards the back of the unit to help cool components.  >  > H > The power Supply has 2 small fans ahead of it. Because of the way theyE > are mounted, they "bleed" air into the space above the power supply G > instead of forcing it through the power supply. Metalic duct tape did  > the trick. > E > Also, because the power supply has its own air inlet on the side, I H > didn't want the valuable cool air from the 3 front fans to be drawn byD > the power supply fans. So metalic duct tape used to block the gapsD > between the main section and the second drive bay (where the powerI > supply draws its air.  This ensures that the 3 front fans push air over F > the electronics towards the back. Should I install a second drive in, > that bay, I may have to revisit this area. > H > And a final modification was inserting a plastic strip between the hotH > CPU air outlet and the PCI riser card. Hot air was bleeding across theH > card to heat the PCI card and electronics below it. This plastic stripH > forces the hot air to exhaust towards the back as it should instead ofI > leaking back into the electronics area. (I used a flexible plastic from I > Michelin tyre packaging which seems heat resistant).  I also used a bit F > of conventional duct tape to block any hot air from leaking from the< > front area between the PCI riser card and the CPU housing. >  > E > Prior to these modifications, system temperatures hovered at 46/47.  > G > After first batch of changes, it went down to 44. After I covered the J > front space between PCI riser card and CPU block with duct tape the tempH > dropped to 43. And the area above the PCI card is now cool, whereas inD > the past it was quite warm.  By ensuring that all the very hot CPUJ > exhaust is directed towards the rear and not allow it to bleed back into8 > the system, it seems to make a non trivial difference. > J > What I don't quite understand is why they didn't simply duct the hot CPUJ > exhaust directly to the outside instead of dumping it to the back of theF > cabinet and heat the components that are unluckily located there andH > then use a second fan further away to finally push that air out. (withD > second fan not as powerful as the blower use for the CPU housing). >  > E > (I realise that they had to work within the confines of an existing J > motherboard which they couldn't change, but ventilation is one area that  > they had to redesign anyways). >  > J > BTW, to see the CPU, you need to remove the 2 blue "screws" from the topG > of the CPU block. You can then lift the assembly out and see the CPU. I > The assembly contains the fan and the heat sink as well as the housing. - > The heat sink is makde of very this blades.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:38:46 +0100  From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com* Subject: Free Disk Drives - Central London" Message-ID: <6858509@MVB.SAIC.COM>   Folks,  G I have 6 x 4.3GB drives (RZ29 equivalents) one in a green SBB that I am K happy to give to the first person wiling to collect. I am in central London  (UK)K Please contact me directly if you are interested. I'll have to toss them in  2 weeks otherwise.   Regards    Paul    < ************************************************************
 HSBC Bank plc 2 Registered Office: 8 Canada Square, London E14 5HQ$ Registered in England - Number 14259< Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority< ************************************************************    ) ----------------------------------------- $ SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!  2 This E-mail is confidential.                      2                                                   G It may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you may G not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of it. If you have received G this message in error, please delete it and all copies from your system 3 and notify the sender immediately by return E-mail. 2                                                   G Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely secure, error E or virus-free. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or 
 omissions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:32:46 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> . Subject: Re: Free Disk Drives - Central LondonJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-62CFCE.16324623102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  G In article <6858509@MVB.SAIC.COM>, paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com had inserted  + for him, presumably not under his control :   & > SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!  2 LOL. They just added 23 lines of unnecessary text.   Sorry Paul, couldn't resist.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:33:50 -0700 , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Fw: FTP fails to start V Message-ID: <OF40B0B4D2.3EC79BCD-ON07257210.0054FCD1-07257210.00557141@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks:  2 I think I found the problem.  Confirmation please.   $DIR/SEC DKA0:000000.DIR   has ACLs as follows   @ (DEFAULT_PROTECTION, SYSTEM=RWED, OWNER=RWED, GROUP=RE, WORLD=E) (IDENT=bla bla, not TCPIP$FTP) (IDENT=*, ACCESS=NONE)  @ I think I need to add READ access for TCPIP$FTP.  Is that right?   dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:23:06 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ( Subject: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts< Message-ID: <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 5 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272    Neil     ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 06:44:30 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley), Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts3 Message-ID: <ifCXTYMj7lEe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:! > HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 7 > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >   " Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  8 I wonder if VMS is about to enter maintainence mode. :-(   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP K If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:41:39 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts: Message-ID: <bMidnaRKsJOBW6HYnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Simon Clubley wrote:j > In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > ! >>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 7 >>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >> >  > $ > Can HP really be this stupid ? :-( >   H Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  you would not need to ask!!    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2006 14:00:04 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts+ Message-ID: <4q4074FlcrovU2@individual.net>   3 In article <ifCXTYMj7lEe@eisner.encompasserve.org>, E 	clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: j > In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:" >> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts8 >> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272 >>   > $ > Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(   This is rhetorical, right? :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:11:22 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts9 Message-ID: <9OidnfXBG5HjeqHYnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Simon Clubley wrote:F >> In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil ( >> Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >># >>> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 9 >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >>>  >> >>% >> Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  >> > J > Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > you would not need to ask!!   H There has been a tendency for some in this forum to have little use for ) those who have cried 'Wolf!' in the past.   E How should "Johnny come lately's" to crying 'Wolf!' be perceived now?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:12:13 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts+ Message-ID: <ehipkt$l9r$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Simon Clubley wrote:F >> In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil ( >> Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >># >>> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 9 >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >>>  >> >>% >> Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  >> > J > Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > you would not need to ask!!    My prediction:  D HP finishes destroying all institutional knowledge of VMS, at which @ point one to many largish entities with ultra-expensive support E contracts haul HP into court for an assortment of egregious contract  @ violations.  The resulting court costs and/or settlement and/or H judgments will be orders of magnitude larger than the pennies that they F ostensibly saved by destroying the product.  HP is trying to have its I cake and eat it too: keep the lucrative support contracts without really  F being able to provide the support.  That's a very stupid game to play G when at least some of the people HP is trying to screw have legions of   lawyers at their disposal.   Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 09:40:32 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cutsB Message-ID: <1161621632.588052.22410@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Simon Clubley wrote:l > > In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > > # > >>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 9 > >>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  > >> > >  > > & > > Can HP really be this stupid ? :-( > >  > I > Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > you would not need to ask!!   G Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people into " *large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 11:42:11 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley), Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts3 Message-ID: <yQEPQ2Ffq2X0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <bMidnaRKsJOBW6HYnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > Simon Clubley wrote:k >> In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >>  " >>>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts8 >>>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272 >>  % >> Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  > J > Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > you would not need to ask!!   J Although I don't post to comp.os.vms as much as I used to, I do keep trackL of what HP are up to with regards to VMS, and _if_ this happens as describedG then it would be a new level of poor decision making on the part of HP.   H It could also be the thing that finally finishes off VMS - no matter howG much one may like VMS, if you can't get proper support for it, then you F are going to be forced towards inferior products that _are_ supported.   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP K If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 02:34:10 -0700  From: "greco" <grecot@gmail.com> Subject: Re: LAN failover A Message-ID: <1161596050.276159.71490@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Folks,  C yet, clean ARP cache doesn't solve. Also following the tcpdump when  problem occurs.   . Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61 Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out.. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=61. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61. Reply from a.b.c.103: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=61     74:SYSTEM> tcpdump -i llb0 tcpdump: listening on llb0 Filtering in user process 3 10:20:20.183209 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:20:21.184113 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:20:21.184113 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:20:22.185994 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:20:22.185994 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:20:23.186899 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:20:23.186899 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:20:24.188780 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:20:24.188780 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:20:25.189684 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:20:25.189684 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply   " //** ACTION MCR LANCP /SWITCH **//  F 10:20:37.586529 LOCALHOST.49156 > LOCALHOST.705: P 4838333:4838353(20) ack 594362597 win 61440 F 10:20:37.586529 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49156: P 1:29(28) ack 20 win 61440 C 10:20:37.784759 LOCALHOST.49156 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 29 win 61440 6 10:20:38.518102 arp who-has OTHERHOST1TC tell y.z.w.193 10:20:42.513908 arp who-has a.b.c.109 tell a.b.c.99 6 10:20:48.530350 arp who-has OTHERHOST3TC tell y.z.w.19F 10:20:49.334978 LOCALHOST.49155 > LOCALHOST.705: P 2466921:2466941(20) ack 3197817953 win 61440F 10:20:49.334978 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49155: P 1:29(28) ack 20 win 61440 C 10:20:49.395521 LOCALHOST.49155 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 29 win 61440 3 10:20:54.823845 arp who-has a.b.c.109 tell a.b.c.98 6 10:20:55.844279 arp who-has OTHERHOST1TC tell y.z.w.176 10:20:58.839181 arp who-has OTHERHOST1TC tell y.z.w.182 10:21:00.552922 arp who-has y.z.w.30 tell y.z.w.196 10:21:05.845786 arp who-has OTHERHOST3TC tell y.z.w.17G 10:21:07.586869 LOCALHOST.49156 > LOCALHOST.705: P 20:40(20) ack 29 win  61440 G 10:21:07.586869 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49156: P 29:57(28) ack 40 win  61440 C 10:21:07.612258 LOCALHOST.49156 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 57 win 61440 6 10:21:08.869982 arp who-has OTHERHOST3TC tell y.z.w.183 10:21:09.841592 arp who-has a.b.c.108 tell a.b.c.98 2 10:21:11.431318 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49154: .+ 752607848:752607849(1) ack 449848 win 61440 C 10:21:11.431318 LOCALHOST.49154 > LOCALHOST.705: . 1:2(1) ack 0 win  61440 B 10:21:11.431318 LOCALHOST.49154 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 1 win 61440B 10:21:11.431318 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49154: . ack 2 win 61440G 10:21:16.941667 LOCALHOST.49158 > LOCALHOST.705: . 16197832:16197833(1)  ack 288530864 win 61440 C 10:21:16.941667 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49158: . 1:2(1) ack 0 win  61440 B 10:21:16.941667 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49158: . ack 1 win 61440B 10:21:16.941667 LOCALHOST.49158 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 2 win 614402 10:21:17.442604 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49157: ./ 2553559948:2553559949(1) ack 16133572 win 61440 C 10:21:17.442604 LOCALHOST.49157 > LOCALHOST.705: . 1:2(1) ack 0 win  61440 B 10:21:17.442604 LOCALHOST.49157 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 1 win 61440B 10:21:17.442604 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49157: . ack 2 win 61440G 10:21:19.335045 LOCALHOST.49155 > LOCALHOST.705: P 20:40(20) ack 29 win  61440 G 10:21:19.335045 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49155: P 29:57(28) ack 40 win  61440 C 10:21:19.422930 LOCALHOST.49155 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 57 win 61440 2 10:21:20.661124 arp who-has y.z.w.30 tell y.z.w.18  5 //*** ACTION <from OVMS74 pinged to a.b.c.100> ***///   1 10:21:22.109262 arp who-has a.b.c.110 tell OVMS74 3 10:21:22.109262 OVMS74 > OVMS71: icmp: echo request 1 10:21:22.109262 OVMS71 > OVMS74: icmp: echo reply 6 10:21:22.109262 arp reply a.b.c.110 is-at 0:0:c:7:ac:13 10:21:23.110166 OVMS74 > OVMS71: icmp: echo request 1 10:21:23.110166 OVMS71 > OVMS74: icmp: echo reply 3 10:21:24.110368 OVMS74 > OVMS71: icmp: echo request 1 10:21:24.110368 OVMS71 > OVMS74: icmp: echo reply 3 10:21:25.111272 OVMS74 > OVMS71: icmp: echo request 1 10:21:25.111272 OVMS71 > OVMS74: icmp: echo reply 5 10:21:36.164183 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:21:36.164183 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:21:37.165088 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:21:37.165088 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply G 10:21:37.586936 LOCALHOST.49156 > LOCALHOST.705: P 40:60(20) ack 57 win  61440 G 10:21:37.586936 LOCALHOST.705 > LOCALHOST.49156: P 57:85(28) ack 60 win  61440 C 10:21:37.639667 LOCALHOST.49156 > LOCALHOST.705: . ack 85 win 61440 5 10:21:38.166969 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:21:38.166969 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:21:39.167873 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:21:39.167873 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:21:40.169754 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:21:40.170731 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply 5 10:21:41.171635 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request 3 10:21:41.171635 OVMS74 > o.t.n.16: icmp: echo reply      Main, Kerry escreveu:    > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: grecot@gmail.com [mailto:grecot@gmail.com]" > > Sent: October 20, 2006 3:29 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > > Subject: LAN failover  > > 
 > > Folks, > > A > > I've being using a DS25 system with DE602 OVMS 7.3.2 with ECO ; > > 5.4, and configured LANCP to to a LAN Failover for EID0 ' > > (priority 20) e EIH0 (priority 10).  > > ? > > The system is not in a cluster enviroment, and I've noticed  > > the following behaviour: > >  > > After boot sequence  > > EID0 is (active) > > LLA0 is working fine.  > > < > > If I do $mcr lancp set dev lla0 /switch the EID0 goes to> > > stand-by according to $ mcr lancp sh dev lla0 /char, shows= > > that EIH0 is active, and after that pinging to IP address % > > assigned to LLA0 is not possible.  > > :( > > < > > Yet, if do a spawn on LANCP, and ping an host within the* > > network, LLA0 starts responding pings.. > > If I switch again, stops again responsing. > > A > > So, LAN Failover only works after output traffic is requested  > > to TCPIP stack?  > > A > > I strongly suspect this is not the expected behaviour, do you  > > have any tips for it?  > > F > > Both NICs are configured to FASTD FULL 100Mbit/s and protocol MOP. > >  > > Thnx > >  >  > 7 > Good whitepaper on TCPIP high availability features - A > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/tcpip.pdf  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > 6 > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 05:43:36 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: LAN failover B Message-ID: <1161607416.030158.120250@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  F >From the tcpdump -i llb0 on node OVMS74, you can see that there is noB IP message leaving this node after the LANCP> SET DEV/SWITCH LLB0:E command, until the PING a.b.c.110 (=OVMS71) command issued on OVMS74:   1 10:21:22.109262 arp who-has a.b.c.110 tell OVMS74   : 14 seconds later, the next ping arrives from node o.t.n.16  5 10:21:36.164183 o.t.n.16 > OVMS74: icmp: echo request   G What if you cleaned the ARP cache entry from OVMS74 on o.t.n.16 and did E a new PING OVMS74 from o.t.n.16 just AFTER switching the LAN device ? B This should cause o.t.n.16 to send an ARP who-has broadcast, whichD would arrive on the newly activated LAN device port and should causeE OVMS74 to respond with a ARP reply, which should tell the switch that @ the OVMS74 LLB MAC address is now active on another switch port.   Volker.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:59:24 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-B31F4C.11592423102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  , In article <453BF2E5.711E38B9@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   ! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: - > > But they are still asking you to opt-out.  > G > It depends on how they obtained your email address to begin with.  If I > they got it without yoru explicit permission, then sending email to you G > is SPM. But if you originally subscribed to thir services or became a I > customer and didn't check the "I don't want mailings" box, then you are $ > fair game to receive their emails.  H In contrast, I downloaded the latest Evaluation Release of OpenVMS CIFS H yesterday. The download request form had a check box with the following  text:   C "Yes, HP can contact me for direct marketing, market research, and  I e-mail notifications of new releases or to better understand my needs to  G provide me with better service in accordance with HP's privacy policy."   5 Unlike some sites, the box was _not_ preset to "Yes".    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:20:48 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) < Message-ID: <453c9728$0$14826$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  = "Paul Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote in message  D news:paul.sture.nospam-B31F4C.11592423102006@mac.sture.homeip.net.... > In article <453BF2E5.711E38B9@teksavvy.com>,0 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >  [...snip...] > I > In contrast, I downloaded the latest Evaluation Release of OpenVMS CIFS I > yesterday. The download request form had a check box with the following  > text:  > D > "Yes, HP can contact me for direct marketing, market research, andJ > e-mail notifications of new releases or to better understand my needs toI > provide me with better service in accordance with HP's privacy policy."  > 7 > Unlike some sites, the box was _not_ preset to "Yes".  >  > Paul Sture > M Yep. I remember checking that box when I down loaded CIFS evaluation release  M #1 a few months back. When HP posted evaluation release #2 a couple of weeks  L back they didn't notify me. I suspect that HP now believes that ANY kind of H contact will be perceived as SPAM (so they only intend to notify you of  fatal bug stuff).   < Look at the self-made purgatory we've created for ourselves.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 04:26:07 -0700- From: "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> 6 Subject: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6B Message-ID: <1161602767.151932.129200@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  B I thought I would have a look at running perl on a o/vms 7.3-2 web server.    Have the following error:-C Apache/2.0.52 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 configured --  resuming normal operationsE malformed header from script. Bad header=%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on 
 l: mark.plA %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first  character\r < PRINT-E-OPENIN, error opening APACHE$SPECIFIC:"CONTENT-TYPE: TEXT/HTML\\N\\ N".; as input\r   -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name\r% %PRINT-F-CREJOB, error creating job\r   C My first script (taken from http://servername/manual/howto/cgi.html    #!/usr/bin/perl $ print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; print "Hello, mark.";      Where this /r/ coming from?    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 06:41:30 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org: Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.63 Message-ID: <iOE4QHR+AOjm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <1161602767.151932.129200@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> writes:D > I thought I would have a look at running perl on a o/vms 7.3-2 web	 > server.  >  > Have the following error:-E > Apache/2.0.52 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 configured --  > resuming normal operationsG > malformed header from script. Bad header=%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on  > l: mark.plC > %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first 
 > character\r > > PRINT-E-OPENIN, error opening APACHE$SPECIFIC:"CONTENT-TYPE: > TEXT/HTML\\N\\ > N".; as input\r " > -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name\r' > %PRINT-F-CREJOB, error creating job\r  > E > My first script (taken from http://servername/manual/howto/cgi.html  >  > #!/usr/bin/perl & > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; > print "Hello, mark.";   A It certainly looks as if your CGI interpreter is running the perl ? script as a DCL command procedure rather than as a perl script.   ? So the question is:  How is Apache on VMS supposed to know that + your CGI is to be treated as a Perl script?    > Where this /r/ coming from?   @ Presumably that's the rendition of a <CR><LF> pair in a piece ofA Unix software that's assuming a bare <LF> line ending convention.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:01:57 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> : Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-9E72AA.15015723102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  3 In article <iOE4QHR+AOjm@eisner.encompasserve.org>,    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  E > In article <1161602767.151932.129200@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,  1 > "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> writes: F > > I thought I would have a look at running perl on a o/vms 7.3-2 web > > server.  > >  > > Have the following error:-G > > Apache/2.0.52 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 configured --  > > resuming normal operationsI > > malformed header from script. Bad header=%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on  > > l: mark.plE > > %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first  > > character\r @ > > PRINT-E-OPENIN, error opening APACHE$SPECIFIC:"CONTENT-TYPE: > > TEXT/HTML\\N\\ > > N".; as input\r $ > > -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name\r) > > %PRINT-F-CREJOB, error creating job\r  > > G > > My first script (taken from http://servername/manual/howto/cgi.html  > >  > > #!/usr/bin/perl ( > > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; > > print "Hello, mark.";  > C > It certainly looks as if your CGI interpreter is running the perl A > script as a DCL command procedure rather than as a perl script.  >   7 Putting the script into either APACHE$COMMON:[PERL] or  D APACHE$SPECIFIC:[PERL] allows Apache to execute it as a Perl script  rather than as DCL.   H Which raises the question: What Apache directive in the HTTPD.CONF file G enables one type of execution or another (eg. DCL vs Perl) for a given  
 directory?  A I can't see any obvious clue in my config file. Does anyone know?    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 06:48:11 -0700- From: "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> : Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6A Message-ID: <1161611290.933304.21260@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: t > In article <1161602767.151932.129200@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> writes:F > > I thought I would have a look at running perl on a o/vms 7.3-2 web > > server.  > >  > > Have the following error:-G > > Apache/2.0.52 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 configured --  > > resuming normal operationsI > > malformed header from script. Bad header=%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on  > > l: mark.plE > > %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first  > > character\r @ > > PRINT-E-OPENIN, error opening APACHE$SPECIFIC:"CONTENT-TYPE: > > TEXT/HTML\\N\\ > > N".; as input\r $ > > -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name\r) > > %PRINT-F-CREJOB, error creating job\r  > > G > > My first script (taken from http://servername/manual/howto/cgi.html  > >  > > #!/usr/bin/perl ( > > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; > > print "Hello, mark.";  > C > It certainly looks as if your CGI interpreter is running the perl A > script as a DCL command procedure rather than as a perl script.  > A > So the question is:  How is Apache on VMS supposed to know that - > your CGI is to be treated as a Perl script?  >  > > Where this /r/ coming from?  > B > Presumably that's the rendition of a <CR><LF> pair in a piece ofC > Unix software that's assuming a bare <LF> line ending convention.     F The error is coming from line 1 which is "#!/usr/bin/perl" from a UnixG point of view this is telling the shell (interpreter) what type of file @ it is. In a DCL enviroment what should the line be? Does it have) anything to do with the logical PERL_ROOT    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:04:24 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> : Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-917FE3.17042423102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  A In article <1161611290.933304.21260@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, /  "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote:   H > The error is coming from line 1 which is "#!/usr/bin/perl" from a UnixI > point of view this is telling the shell (interpreter) what type of file B > it is. In a DCL enviroment what should the line be? Does it have+ > anything to do with the logical PERL_ROOT   I On case you didn't see my earlier reply to John, try putting your script  8 into APACHE$SPECIFIC:[PERL] and executing it from there.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 11:05:43 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org: Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.63 Message-ID: <ffbvERsibFXj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <1161611290.933304.21260@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> writes:  > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: u >> In article <1161602767.151932.129200@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> writes: G >> > I thought I would have a look at running perl on a o/vms 7.3-2 web  >> > server. >> > >> > Have the following error:- H >> > Apache/2.0.52 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.6 configured -- >> > resuming normal operations J >> > malformed header from script. Bad header=%DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on >> > l: mark.pl F >> > %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first >> > character\rA >> > PRINT-E-OPENIN, error opening APACHE$SPECIFIC:"CONTENT-TYPE:  >> > TEXT/HTML\\N\\  >> > N".; as input\r% >> > -RMS-F-FNM, error in file name\r * >> > %PRINT-F-CREJOB, error creating job\r >> >H >> > My first script (taken from http://servername/manual/howto/cgi.html >> > >> > #!/usr/bin/perl) >> > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";  >> > print "Hello, mark."; >>D >> It certainly looks as if your CGI interpreter is running the perlB >> script as a DCL command procedure rather than as a perl script. >>B >> So the question is:  How is Apache on VMS supposed to know that. >> your CGI is to be treated as a Perl script? >>  >> > Where this /r/ coming from? >>C >> Presumably that's the rendition of a <CR><LF> pair in a piece of D >> Unix software that's assuming a bare <LF> line ending convention. >  > H > The error is coming from line 1 which is "#!/usr/bin/perl" from a UnixI > point of view this is telling the shell (interpreter) what type of file B > it is. In a DCL enviroment what should the line be? Does it have+ > anything to do with the logical PERL_ROOT   C You should certainly follow Paul Sture's advice and put your script  into an appropriate directory.  A To answer the more general question, DCL is not a Unix shell.  It C doesn't support the "magic number" convention whereby the first few C bytes of a file identify the shell, interpreter or application that D can reasonably execute the file.  There is no way within the text ofA the procedure to choose a particular shell or interpreter to use.   F A DCL command procedure is a DCL command procedure.  It executes under control of DCL.   G However, what you could do is to run the Perl interpreter under control  of DCL.   - $! This is your CGI script -- as a DCL script # $ PERL = "$PERL_ROOT:[EXE]PERL.EXE"  $ PERL$ print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"; print "Hello, mark.";  $ EXIT $! End of the CGI script   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 12:29:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.63 Message-ID: <neIDwGJvpL+z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <1161611290.933304.21260@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "mb301@hotmail.com" <mb301@hotmail.com> writes:   H > The error is coming from line 1 which is "#!/usr/bin/perl" from a UnixI > point of view this is telling the shell (interpreter) what type of file B > it is. In a DCL enviroment what should the line be? Does it have+ > anything to do with the logical PERL_ROOT        There is no such line in VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:52:20 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com - Subject: Re: Running a news server on OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <874ptvm963.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ) "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:   ) > Re: yep, nothing is perfect as you say.   ( But INN is a lot less perfect than most.  D > I suspect the OpenVMS file creation issue you mentioned has likelyF > been fixed by the numerous performance issues and enhancements since@ > then.  One example would be the write back cache capability (IE > believe the default in most UNIX platforms) which was introduced in F > VMS V7.3-1 timeframe. Also, Fast IO and Fast Path are other features9 > that might assist in improving news server performance.   C No, because you spend all your time in the XQP and very little time D DMAing the bits. The IO bandwidth is not the problem, it is the huge churn of files.   E Re-doing News to use say big RMS relative files for a ring buffer for ? the articles with pointers to the article would be a lot nicer.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 09:14:04 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com - Subject: Re: Running a news server on OpenVMS @ Message-ID: <1161620044.260661.8250@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:E > No, because you spend all your time in the XQP and very little time F > DMAing the bits. The IO bandwidth is not the problem, it is the huge > churn of files.   F Indeed.  I completely scrambled a Spiralog filesystem running ANU News@ on it.  The performance was better, but ANU really abuses a file system.   G > Re-doing News to use say big RMS relative files for a ring buffer for A > the articles with pointers to the article would be a lot nicer.   C Long ago, I was working on a news server for VMS that did something F similar to this (multiple container files) that was better - but still4 had some issues if the volume got too close to full.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 08:29:20 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk3 Subject: Re: SAS desupport article from openvms.org B Message-ID: <1161617360.658063.38270@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  B Shucks, fooled again.  I thought you'd got out of the "VMS must beB ported to 8086" argument.  You were, in fact, just letting us hang until the 5th paragraph.  
 Oh well...   JF Mezei wrote:  > Richard Maher wrote: > >  > > Hi,  > >  > > Just had a look at: -  > > = > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/20/4267457  > > H > > and was wondering if anyone new the rationale behind their decision. > I > Simple business decision. VMS was already in a decline of userbase. And I > they they foisted that IA64 thing on customers. Not only thet trauma of H > yet another migration, but also a migration to a platform whose future! > is more uncertain than Alpha's.  > H > Even the IDG study commissioned/sponsored by HP stated that because ofU > the move to that IA64 thing, HP risks losing about 30% of its enterprise customers.  > J > Intel  is out to get rid of unprofitable products. And a senior Intel VP2 > has admitted IA64 isn't profitable. Do the math. > H > In 2004, the statements alluded to a 207 wind down of IA64. But now itI > looks like 2008 when intel's prime platform gets the new high performan F > system chipset/interconnects at which point it will outperform those > IA64 things. > J > Had HP admitted this was the plan and committed to port VMS to the intelH > primary platform, then ISVs would have had far more enthousism for VMSF > and while they would have still avoided the port to that IA64 thing,I > they would have announced longer support for Alpha and comitted to port - > to the 8086 as soon as VMS could run on it.  > H > In terms of the timing of the announcement, it is perfectly normal: HPI > is about to prematurely end Alpha sales. Once Alpha sales are over, SAS 4 > cannot expect any new sales of its product on VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:52:07 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> > Subject: SimH (v3.6-1), MicroVAX 3900, and console environment+ Message-ID: <4q47tuFhsl0bU2@individual.net>   E Does anyone happen to know how to save settings to the file NVRAM.BIN E (permanently), connected to SimH using "LOAD -n NVRAM.BIN"? (I didn't % see any hint in the PDF docs so far.)   0 Settings (related to the VMS boot process) like:   | >>> SET BOOT <device>  | >>> SET BFLG <flag-value>    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 06:44:29 -0700 From: twnews@kittles.com, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.C Message-ID: <1161611069.633894.254160@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    jrmorrisnc@gmail.com wrote:  > Hello, > F > I've recently inherited a Alpha system running OpenVMS... I'm a UnixE > admin, and this is in production for mission critical applications.  > F > I have an old DEC VMS User Guide, and google, and of course a lot ofA > mindset and skills highly relevant to Unix systems and probably  > detrimental on VMS systems.  > E > I need pointers to a crash course in VMS administration. Or a book,    I have found the CBT course ? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wbt/pc/welcome.htm to be useful as an D introduction to VMS Systems Management.  The course name is "OpenVMSD Primer for System Managers" and the link worked for me this morning.F It does not answer all of your questions, but it does help VMS newbies1 to get a better grasp of the philosophies of VMS.    Hope it helps.   Thomas Wirt  Operations Manager Kittle's Home Furnishings   E > books, etc. I am a recent hire and the VMS admin was asked to leave E > (despite my recommendations, in fact). What little documentation on I > things like backup procedures and so forth tends toward the general and H > vague rather than specific and procedural. I was hired as a Unix/LinuxE > admin, and at no point did I ever say or did my resume mention VMS. H > Probably because I've never worked with it ;-). However, I've also hadI > it made abundantly clear to me that that is not a sufficient reason for ? > any failures to administer this system properly, immediately.  > H > The help command and some web references have been helpful; I've foundH > the search command and how to move to the MFD of physical disks... But, > to say I'm at a loss is an understatement. > G > One of the problems is backups have to continue properly, and another I > is there are many DCL scripts that fire off reports to management about E > the system, with the previous admin's e-mail address in them, which F > unfortunately the searches I've done have not turned up all of them.E > I'm being pressured to resolve that immediately if not sooner but I  > have nothing much to go on.  > B > I'm needing an overview of things like scheduling, what jobs areG > running, auditing and accounting and reports, how things are laid out F > (like, where's VMS's /etc & /var equivalents, or how is that sort of > thing handled?)... > @ > I appreciate any advice or help anyone can offer, thanks much!   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2006 13:22:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. + Message-ID: <4q3u10FkuekgU1@individual.net>   - In article <KQR_g.22729$2g4.4122@dukeread09>, & 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:M >> BASIC is and always was a toy language.  It (like Pascal) was designed for L >> a specific purpose and then found itself used for everything else.  There- >> were always better languages for any task.  > $ > Better is a very subjective terms. > ' > You think there are better languages.  > < > The IT managers who set 1.6 million software developers to/ > produce VB code apparently thought otherwise.   E Yeah, VB is to programming languages what XP is to operating systems. C But then, look where it came from.  Market superiority should never C be mistaken for technical superiority especially when it involves a  Microsoft product.   bill   --  J bIll Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2006 13:28:27 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. + Message-ID: <4q3ubrFkuekgU2@individual.net>   9 In article <naSdnbT79-EDqqHYnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:< >> In article <2r6dnTFV69sFA6bYnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@libcom.com>,- >> 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> F >>>> I didn't say it was a good thing.  I only meant to point out thatF >>>> ANSI has had  no problem in the past with changing the definitionF >>>> of a language while keeping the same name.  While many VMS peopleI >>>> are sure to disagree, using BASIC for anything is a bad idea (IMHO!) M >>> Yeah, many will disagree with that statement.  Not interested in arguing  L >>> the issue.  However, I'd like to know just why you'd make this comment. L >>>   Staying away from issues such as VAX/DEC BASIC being limited to a VMS L >>> environment, and Basic Plus being limited to RSTS/E, issues not limited A >>> to these languages, what are your reasons for your statement?  >>  M >> BASIC is and always was a toy language.  It (like Pascal) was designed for L >> a specific purpose and then found itself used for everything else.  There- >> were always better languages for any task.  >   > You're still spouting opinion.  0 What was J&W stated purpose for creating Pascal?7 What was Kemeny & Kurtz's reasoning for creating BASIC?    >  > Is this informed opinion?   9 Of course it's opinion.  But opinion based on 40 years of  computer experience.   > $ > Have you ever looked at VAX Basic?   Yes.   > % > Are you aware of it's capabilities?    Yes.   > 4 >>>>  You need never remove the old method, you just$ >>>> discourage its use (like GOTO).% >>> What are your issues with GOTO?    >>  G >> Not my idea.  It is people of much greater stature in the discipline % >> than I.  For example Dykstra.  :-)  >>  E >>>                                 What really gets to me is people  J >>> badmouthing something that every computer language is dependent upon. H >>> Name just one commercial computer system that could exist without a  >>> branch instruction.  >>  I >> I believe the argument has to do with level of abstraction.  It is not I >> that a computer should not be able to "GOTO" but that good programming I >> practice using any fairly modern language dictates that no programmers # >> logic should have a need for it.  > K > Any dispatch type of logic can make good use of GOTO.  In the case where  I > the dispatch is unconditional and there will be no return, GOTO is the  ) > best method for implementing the logic.  > H > I'm not trying to defend abuses, but keep in mind just about anything 0 > can be abused.  Does that make everything bad? > K > As for Dykstra, those who can, do, those who can't, teach, and those who  ? > cannot teach, write, and try to tell others how to do things.   F Talk about informed opinion.  I think the industry is much more likely) to side with Dykstra than you or me.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2006 13:43:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. + Message-ID: <4q3v8cFlcrovU1@individual.net>   . In article <mOR_g.22728$2g4.22622@dukeread09>,& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:1 >> In article <_Jt_g.22692$2g4.13916@dukeread09>, ) >> 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: ? >>> You don't change the language definition in a way that will  >>> break so much code.  >>  D >> I have already posted a method that would allow future code to beE >> string safe as well as make slow conversion (as bugs are found and + >> fixed) without breaking existing code.    >  > The string type approach.  > @ > If you keep the char and just add a string type, then you will > not break any existing code.  C That's exactly what I said.  Let the bad code die out by attrition.    >  > This what C++ did. > 8 > STL string must be around 15 years old. And it has not2 > nearly replaced null terminated char arrays yet.  B Because no one has bothered to add it to the "offending" language.A All of the legacy code is C, not C++.  In order for the change to B take effect it has to be implemented in C, not C++.  The fact thatC it has not is what leads me to the opinion that the majority of the @ industry just doesn't care or see it as a problem as big as someE vocal minority sees it.  I admit, in hindsight, that it is a problem. ? But then, hindsight is always 20/20.  if you can come up with a B working time machine I volunteer to go back and I am sure I could F convince K&R that it will be a bad idea and they can do it a different" way in that first C Compiler.  :-)   >   > But maybe in another 15 years.  C Not in 50 if someone (with the ability) doesn't decide that it is a 6 serious enough problem to actually do something about.   >  > It doesn't work.  D What doesn't work?  My string approach?  Won't know that til someone	 tries it.    > = >>> When it became acknowledges as a problem it was too late.  >>  F >> It is never too late.   If the problem is seen as serious enough it >> will be fixed.  >  > People realize the problem.  > + > And they are changing to other languages.  > < > Non OO languages are considered obsolete in most areas, so' > noone sees the need for this feature.    Speaking of opinion!!    >   >>> Enough people care about it. >>  I >> Apparently not, or they would either fix it themselves or be clamoring K >> for the standards bodies to fix it.  Or, as a minimum, some entrepreneur ; >> would be making a fortune selling "The Safe C Compiler".  > D > The explanation followed in next sentence, so rather poor quoting. > A >>> They have switched to Java, C# and even C++ with STL strings.  >>  F >> Java is certainly no replacement for C.  Ever try writting an OS inI >> Java?  Don't really know much about C# except the driving force behind G >> it was corporate politics rather than technical superiority.  And as F >> for C++, doesn't it still support null terminated strings alongside >> better ways to do it? > < > C# was definatetly technology driven to provide MS with an > alternative to Java.  D No, C# was politics driven.  MS was damned if they were going to letF Sun hog the spotlight and control the direction programming was going.   > G > What is wrong with writing an OS in Java ? To be more precisely: most  > of the OS in Java ?   E How about the fact that in order to run Java you have to already have G an OS on which to run the VM?  Although the Gnu people are fighting it, C Sun has been pretty adamant that Java compilers not generate native C code but only Java Byte Code.  Sure, you could write an OS is Java, F but it would be running on top of some other OS which kind of makes it moot.    > : > MS has already made a toy OS with most of the code being+ > managed (equivalent to running in a JVM).   < And it runs where?  In Windows?  On top of a Windows kernel?   > K >>>>> None of the big languages invented after 1990 (primarily Java and C#) F >>>>> uses the null terminated string concept. They use objects. Which3 >>>>> are in reality equivalent to VMS descriptors.  >>  H >> And neither of the examples provided are suitable or were intended toG >> do the things C was created to do.  Prove me wrong, rewrite any Unix E >> kernel in either language.  I'll make it easy for you, you can use J >> Ultrix-11 as your guinea pig.  It's relatively small as Unix kernels goI >> and all the sources are available.  Oh wait.  You can't write an OS in F >> Java.  It only runs in a Virtual Machine which requires an OS and a@ >> very limited subset of existing hardware in order to run it!! > $ > Your view about OS's are outdated.  E Really?  In what way?  Do you have a Java VM that can run directly on F an Alpha with no underlying OS?  And we won't even go into things like+ the VAX or PDP-11 which can never run Java.   F Hey, here's an even better idea.  Convince HP to re-write VMS in Java.A That would be the last port that would ever have to be done.  :-)    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:27:15 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-B31696.16271523102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  + In article <4q3v8cFlcrovU1@individual.net>, *  bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:   <snip>   > A > But then, hindsight is always 20/20.  if you can come up with a D > working time machine I volunteer to go back and I am sure I could H > convince K&R that it will be a bad idea and they can do it a different$ > way in that first C Compiler.  :-) >   F And they might just tell you to mind your own business, because their ' compiler is only for their own use. :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:11:06 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com8 Subject: Where is the documentation on password history?Q Message-ID: <OF4BAB747E.3FDDC0B4-ON85257210.004DD61F-85257210.004DEBC0@metso.com>   > Where is the documentation on password history on the website?   I cannot seem to locate it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:13:30 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com< Subject: Re: Where is the documentation on password history?Q Message-ID: <OF1D8E88C9.71050457-ON85257210.00537175-85257210.0053A20F@metso.com>   G Never mind.  When I searched the PDF version of the HP OpenVMS Guide to 3 System Security I was able to locate what I needed.   7 norm.raphael@metso.com wrote on 10/23/2006 10:11:06 AM:   @ > Where is the documentation on password history on the website? >  > I cannot seem to locate it.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:59:07 +0100 ! From: "R.A.Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> 9 Subject: [Change topic] Bug in TCP/IP Services V5.4 ECO 6 4 Message-ID: <ehi3pf$30d$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:h > In article <453BAC71.FEA03DA8@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> writes: > P >>UCX is up to V5.5. V5.4 ECO 6 is probably about the most stable recent version >>that will run on V7.3-2 VMS. > L > UCX is up to V5.6 (V5.5ECO1 is with VMS V8.2) and V5.4 ECO6 has a bug with& > Non-BIND (aka hosts) environments...  - Yep, one of my customers got hit by that bug.   F Fortunately, there's a replacement TCPIP$IPC_SHR which fixes this bug;+ provided very quickly to us by HP (thanks).   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.583 ************************226 Transfer completed.r0 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/diskblock> >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/diskblock.	 <<< PWDaH >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/diskblock" is current directory. <<< ALLO 4 >>> 200 ALLO command OK.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,17,139)> <<< STOR 742617000027.html+ >>> 550 User not permitted to store filess
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,17,140)d
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started. >>> 226 Transfer completed.r. <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/diskmap< >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/diskmap.	 <<< PWDrF >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/diskmap" is current directory. <<< ALLO 4 >>> 200 ALLO command OK.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,17,141)l <<< STOR 742617000027.html+ >>> 550 User not permitted to store filesi
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,17,142)s
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.d >>> 226 Transfer completed.f3 <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/disk_balance/A >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/disk_balance./	 <<< PWD/K >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/disk_balance" is current directory.< <<< ALLO 4 >>> 200 ALLO command OK.
 <<< PASVA >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,17,143)n <<< STOR 742617000027.html+ >>> 550 User not permitted to store filesu
 <<< PASV