1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 24 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 584       Contents:" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? Attunity SSIS Accelerator % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ? % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ? % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ? % Re: CDE or original Session Manager ? 1 Re: DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP symbol or logical ?  Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: DS10L surgery report Re: Fw: FTP fails to startE Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US supportcenter! # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts  Item codes in F$GETDVI Re: Item codes in F$GETDVI Re: Item codes in F$GETDVI Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !)1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 1 Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6 % SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 3 * Re: SAS desupport article from openvms.org Re: Shadow copy taking a while Re: Shadow copy taking a while# Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. # Re: Unix admin needs some pointers. : Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server.$ Re: VMS DCL script programmer needed  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:35:36 -0400 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? ( Message-ID: <ehj219$mob$1@pyrite.mv.net>   JF Mezei wrote: I > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE E > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ' > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > E > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base F > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theJ > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aR > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  G    File extensions are a quaint and comparatively primitive construct,  D though one that has the advantage of easy familiarity.  And they do ? work.  I'd much prefer a design which more directly tagged the  H application(s), the requisite data structures and data conversions, and H the data itself -- rather more directly.  (DDIF, CDA, CDD and such were  all headed in this direction.)  F    Most any data and file organization identification convention that D involves user-input and user-specified substrings embedded within a H filename has its share of problems.  .BCK, .BACK, .SAV, etc.  And there B are a gazillion different organizations tagged with .DAT or .DATA.  F    As for the image activation defaults and short of patching various G mechanisms within OpenVMS image activation itself, there is no obvious  @ way to change the default file extensions for RUN or other such H components; they're in-built into the code, and there's no configurable G table for this sort of thing.  Conceivably, you could potentially also  H implement this via a file system XQP or ACP, of course -- that would be D quite slick and allow you to select a particular activation profile I (basically a data-driven file system), but a whole lot of internal-level  I work within the file system and with connections into various inner-mode  
 OpenVMS APIs.   H    DCL$PATH (and its DCL procedure and executable search mechanisms) is I one approach and logical names are the other.  Both have been mentioned,  H   I tend to use concealed rooted searchlist logical names, and have the F system startup procedures configure most everything appropriately for E the environment.  (Having DCL$PATH allow the specification of a file  I extension would be a nice enhancement...)  The logical name mechanism is  H arguably the best available, and the most similar to a data-driven view  into the file system.   H    There were discussions around the so-called threaded or fat binaries H and around architecture-sensitive image activation mechanisms, but that E was a comparative increase in the scale of the work involved (and in  E various parts of the system) and was (obviously) not implemented for  G either of the existing OpenVMS ports.  (The closest existing analog is  > the compatibility mode image activation mechanism, of course.)   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 12:37:48 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? B Message-ID: <1161632268.733260.163830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Stephen Hoffman wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: K > > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE G > > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ) > > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  <snip> > G >    As for the image activation defaults and short of patching various H > mechanisms within OpenVMS image activation itself, there is no obviousA > way to change the default file extensions for RUN or other such I > components; they're in-built into the code, and there's no configurable H > table for this sort of thing.  Conceivably, you could potentially alsoI > implement this via a file system XQP or ACP, of course -- that would be E > quite slick and allow you to select a particular activation profile J > (basically a data-driven file system), but a whole lot of internal-levelJ > work within the file system and with connections into various inner-mode > OpenVMS APIs.  > I >    DCL$PATH (and its DCL procedure and executable search mechanisms) is J > one approach and logical names are the other.  Both have been mentioned,I >   I tend to use concealed rooted searchlist logical names, and have the G > system startup procedures configure most everything appropriately for F > the environment.  (Having DCL$PATH allow the specification of a fileJ > extension would be a nice enhancement...)  The logical name mechanism isI > arguably the best available, and the most similar to a data-driven view  > into the file system.  >   D Since the image content tells whether it's VAX, Alpha or whatever, aC multi-tiered environment could be designed to examine the image and 0 hand it over to run on an appropriate processor.  F Of course, eliminating environments with incompatable processors wouldG remove the need, and the future seems to be pointing in this direction, * so the cost probably wouldn't be worth it.  I >    There were discussions around the so-called threaded or fat binaries I > and around architecture-sensitive image activation mechanisms, but that F > was a comparative increase in the scale of the work involved (and inF > various parts of the system) and was (obviously) not implemented forH > either of the existing OpenVMS ports.  (The closest existing analog is@ > the compatibility mode image activation mechanism, of course.)  2 Or were you saying the same thing I just said? :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:35:09 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-7178D6.22350923102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B In article <1161632268.733260.163830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,/  "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote:   H > Of course, eliminating environments with incompatable processors wouldI > remove the need, and the future seems to be pointing in this direction, , > so the cost probably wouldn't be worth it. >   G Apple appear to have cleared this hurdle with their switch from PPC to   Intel processors.   H They have implemented this using "Fat binaries", which contain code for B both types of processor, and the OS executes the appropriate part.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:55:11 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? * Message-ID: <453ce5e0@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  & <davidc@montagar.com> wrote in message< news:1161612848.987559.44000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > JF Mezei wrote: K > > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE G > > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ) > > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > > G > > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base H > > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theL > > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aH > > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  > F > I understand the issue.  I do wish that when the Alpha came out, theD > default image type was something a little different, like .AXE, to > avoid this problem.  > I > Of course, maybe you could hack the image activator to look for another 
 > file type..  >   L Changing the extension would have itself caused pain - as many command filesK and other things look for .EXE as the extension for an image.  We had a lot I of discussion about it.  We also had a lot of discussion about having the K image activator look for architecture-specific images - and decided against I it because there was a lot of pushback against the additional overhead in F activation time for doing fallback lookups.  We also talked about "fatH binaries" which was another huge kettle of fish with some ugly problems.  K In the end, the *simplest* method was to recommend exactly what others have F suggested here...  create a search list and have architecture-specificH directories.  A startup procedure, or login command file can look at theA architecture and order the search list in the appropriate manner.   K Today, you might also consider having hard/soft links from something called C a .EXE file that actually points to an architecture-specific image.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:56:26 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453ce62b$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  & <davidc@montagar.com> wrote in message< news:1161612848.987559.44000@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > JF Mezei wrote: K > > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE G > > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ) > > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > > G > > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base H > > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theL > > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aH > > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  > F > I understand the issue.  I do wish that when the Alpha came out, theD > default image type was something a little different, like .AXE, to > avoid this problem.  > I > Of course, maybe you could hack the image activator to look for another 
 > file type..  >   L As one more note, the same discussion ensued for chip-specific Alpha images.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:39:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453D4487.4EA1BA27@teksavvy.com>   Doug Phillips wrote:F > Just keep separate directories and use f$getsyi to get arch_name andB > assign the default or run and link-target path/searchlist in the > login.com accordingly.    F Some of my  programs are actually invoked with the RUN command without any DCL before it.      @ > Common code base is fine, but you'd still need to do something- > "special" to create the special extensions.   F When you compile/build it, you rename the resulting .EXE into .EXE_VAXC or .EXE_ALPHA depending on what platform you used to build it. Then E whenener you would use this, the RUN command would automatically pick A the right image file because it woudln't find a .EXE and look for F alternate extension.  This would have allowed the functionlaity of FAT8 executables with only a minor change to the RUN command.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:57:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453D48D2.9CE39551@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote:N > Changing the extension would have itself caused pain - as many command files? > and other things look for .EXE as the extension for an image.   H What I was suggesting is first look for .EXE, and only if it fails, thenI look for architecture specific type (.EXE_VAX, .EXE_ALPHA, .EXE_8086 etc)   G This way, default behaviour is not changed. But you can then setup some A applications to have multiple architectures in the same file name E (ifferent extensions) and eahc gets activated with the same command (  RUN CHOCOLATE for instance).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:10:10 -0400 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? ( Message-ID: <ehjlki$sgu$1@pyrite.mv.net>   JF Mezei wrote:   J > What I was suggesting is first look for .EXE, and only if it fails, thenK > look for architecture specific type (.EXE_VAX, .EXE_ALPHA, .EXE_8086 etc)   E    Once the executable (main) image is activated, I would assume you  H want everything else downstream to select that same architecture, right?  F    Accordingly, work through what you would want to see done for RUN, @ for $creprc, lib$find_image_symbol, and for the secondary image G activations for shareable images and for user-written system services,  F and there'd have to be provisions made for and within the debugger(s) I and for the image traceback processing, in DCL (for DCL$PATH) and within  > the INSTALL utility, and submit it to HP as a feature request.  H    And since this is -- I assume -- a request for the same architecture H and not a cross-architecture operation, this enhancement would not need I nor require rewritten debuggers and traceback support.  It would require  F searching for image defaults around the operation, and I expect there ? are a bunch of tools around that look at or default to this --  > ANALYZE/IMAGE, for instance.  If you were to add architecture 4 translations, things would get really interesting...  G    As for selecting the architecture at activation, I'd initially tend  F to think there would have to be a process-level setting for the image I activation based on the main image, and which would obviously have to be  ; reset either at image rundown and/or at main image startup.   I    The discussions of this area I'm familiar with have traditionally all  H ended up being "but hey, logical names can do that...".  And if you use F facility name prefixes on your image(s), you can also define a set of G logical names that translate(s) as the full path -- that technique can  F also help with installed images and installed image activations, too. E (There are similar techniques used for a couple of the OpenVMS RTLs,  ; where certain of the RTLs are/were built with specific and  D microprocessor-(semi-)specific compilation techniques, and selected  using logical names.)   H    Or ask nicely for the source code, and port it all to x86-64 and fix I it or extend it for yourself for your specific needs.  Or -- when you're  E fixing it -- forget the whole user-specified and variously-defaulted  F filename extension scheme, and re-code this whole area using far more G modern techniques and designs.  The file extensions are, well, an ugly  H and weak and primitive solution to the basic problem of identifying the $ particular file contents, after all.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:36:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453D6008.8D299C95@teksavvy.com>   Stephen Hoffman wrote:F >    Once the executable (main) image is activated, I would assume youJ > want everything else downstream to select that same architecture, right?  > OK, point taken.  While statically linked images would be fineF (chocolate.EXE_ALPHA  be no different from chocolate.exe running on anD alpha and invoke normal alpha shareable images without problem, BUT H there would be an issue with LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL since the applicationF would then need to be aware that the shareable images might not be allA .EXE since you may have directories containing both alpha and vax < shareable images with same filename and different extension.  I >    Or ask nicely for the source code, and port it all to x86-64 and fix 9 > it or extend it for yourself for your specific needs.     C Is this an official announcement that VMS is being retired and open - sourced so we can continue its development ?     :-)   ) >  The file extensions are, well, an ugly I > and weak and primitive solution to the basic problem of identifying the & > particular file contents, after all.    @ File extensions may be an old concept, but they make things muchA simpler. If you remove the file extension, you need to change the F dirtectory listing to also list the file type stored in some metadata.! So is there really a difference ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:45:12 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <pmd%g.22759$2g4.864@dukeread09>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Stephen Hoffman wrote:G >>    Once the executable (main) image is activated, I would assume you K >> want everything else downstream to select that same architecture, right?  > @ > OK, point taken.  While statically linked images would be fine  4 When did you last see a static linked image on VMS ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:28:33 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 0 Message-ID: <453D7A51.E778C28C@spam.comcast.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > I > Is it possible to setup VMS so that the RUN command looks for file .EXE E > first, and if not found, would look for .EXE_VAX on VAX systems and ' > EXE_AXP for Alphas ? (or whatever)  ?  > E > This way, one could easily have two utilities with common code base F > reside in the same directory and a user could invoke the utility theJ > same way whether is is typing the command in a DCL window connected to aR > VAX or to an Alpha . (and thus also have the same LOGIN.COM for both platforms).  0 Well, here's some code from my login sequence...   $ SLD := SYS$LOGIN_DEVICE < $ DEVC = F$PARSE( SLD,,,"DEVICE", "NO_CONCEAL,SYNTAX_ONLY" )C $ DRCT = F$PARSE( SLD,,,"DIRECTORY", "NO_CONCEAL,SYNTAX_ONLY" ) - -   F$DIRECTORY()= $ USERDIR = F$PARSE( "SYS$LOGIN",,, "DIRECTORY" ) - "[" - "]" 8 $ ROOT = "''DEVC'''DRCT'[''USERDIR'" - "][" - "]" + ".]"= $ DEFINE/EXEC/JOB/TRANSLATE=(CONCEALED,TERM) USER_ROOT 'ROOT' / $ DEFINE/EXEC/JOB USER_LOGIN USER$ROOT:[000000] # $ ARCH_NAME = F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") 6 $ DEFINE/EXEC/JOB USER_IMG USER_ROOT:[EXE.'ARCH_NAME']* $ DEFINE/EXEC/JOB USER_COM USER_ROOT:[EXE] $ DEFINE/EXEC/JOB USER_EXE -         USER_IMG:,-          USER_COM:,-          SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE],-          SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]    ...and a little later on...    $! $ IF    BASE_VER .GES. "6.2" $ THEN/ $       DEFINE/JOB DCL$PATH USER_COM:,USER_IMG: 7 $       IF      F$SEARCH( "USER_EXE:DFU.EXE" ) .NES. ""  $       THEN( $               DFU     :==$USER_EXE:DFU" $               DEFINE DFU$NOSMG X
 $       ENDIF  $ ELSE
 [snippage] $ ENDIF   3 Just another perspective on the architecture issue.   G ...and yes this works on HP's testdrive cluster where IA64 is included.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:54:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453D8E4D.1EDE1121@teksavvy.com>   Arne Vajhj wrote:6 > When did you last see a static linked image on VMS ?  E Run time libraries such as the C RTL are associated with the image at D link time. While you may be able to do tricks with logicals to use aA different file, the association is still static since symbols are @ resolved at link time and the image will just branch to specificF addresses where the routine is expected to reside within the shareable image.    B This is qwuite diffferent from lib$find_image_symbol where nothingD happens at link time and the finding and resolving of symbols within* some image file is done truly at run time.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 12:19:40 -0700  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com>" Subject: Attunity SSIS AcceleratorA Message-ID: <1161631180.418521.87130@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   E Has anyone had the opportunity to use Attunity's SSIS Accelerator for  VMS/SQL 2K5?  5 I wonder if any AccuWeather guys have played with it.   G What I specifically would like to know is if it is truly 'real time' as F in would we be able to view, query and manipulate RMS data through SQL 2K5?  @ I would also like any feedback from folks who have used AttunityF products.  We have used Easysoft for years, and for years have nightly: batched all our RMS junk over to SQL into one giant table.   Thanks so much!   
 Mike Poole   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:57:49 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>. Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?, Message-ID: <453ce67e$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  < "Paul Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote in messageD news:paul.sture.nospam-D68322.15365823102006@mac.sture.homeip.net...5 > In article <Pr+JxUZBeD1E@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? >  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  >  > > In article? <paul.sture.nospam-13D4B6.12215223102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, 5 > > Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:  > > >     F > > With the upgraded hardware a VS 2000 could sort of support 1 user. >   1 The VS2000 was best used with VMS 4.5 and VWS ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:43:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?, Message-ID: <453D45A3.728A9E63@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:F >    Yep, VUE obeyed the KISS principle.  But I still miss features of* >    the pre-Motif DEC X11 window manager.  C XUI is still available on VAX at least. You can stop the WWM window > manater and start the XUI. Your windows temporarily lose theirF decorations, and when XUI restarts, they get their new decorations butF applications in the windows continue to run. (while the window manager< is down, you cannot change focus of windows, nor move them).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:49:30 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> . Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-59D57A.04493024102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  , In article <453ce67e$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,,  "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:   > 3 > The VS2000 was best used with VMS 4.5 and VWS ;-)   E Aargh. When I wrote VUE, I think I really meant VWS. FWIW, it worked  . fine on V5.2, which is what I had at the time.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:57:06 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> . Subject: Re: CDE or original Session Manager ?: Message-ID: <GbOdnS_f2b8HE6DYnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com>   FredK wrote:  > > "Paul Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote in messageF > news:paul.sture.nospam-D68322.15365823102006@mac.sture.homeip.net... > 5 >>In article <Pr+JxUZBeD1E@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  >> >>
 >>>In article  > A > <paul.sture.nospam-13D4B6.12215223102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>,  > 4 >>>Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: >>>  >  > E >>>With the upgraded hardware a VS 2000 could sort of support 1 user.  >> > 3 > The VS2000 was best used with VMS 4.5 and VWS ;-)  >  >  >    It made a nice door stop!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:31:05 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>: Subject: Re: DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP symbol or logical ?* Message-ID: <453cc768@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  L The server runs before the resource manager.  As to the other suggestions...* it would be nice but isn't a top priority.    ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message ' news:4539387B.D66DDF12@vaxination.ca...  > FredK wrote:H > > Some things were standard from way, way back.  Some things that wereH > > server-specific ended up just having the user define the logicals if they > > want to change them. > G > But shouldn't the doc have asked people to define the logicals in the B > right table (DECW$SERVER0_TABLE for instance) instead of doing a8 > DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC ? (is the /EXEC really necessary ?) > 8 > > Some of of those (like refresh rate and pixel depth)L > > have become standard, but the precident was already set - and nobody hasL > > gone back to try and integrate them in as symbols (in a way not to break any ! > > user setup already in place).  >  > > > 1- If the system logical exists, then move that value to the > server0_table logical D > 2- If the symvol exists, then move that value to the server0_table logical. > H > This way, people with just the define/system/exec definitiosn continueI > to work as before and since they aren't definining the symbol, no other E > redefinition of the value happens. Those "new" installs who use the 9 > symbol and not the logical get their stuff to work too.  > C > And for those who use both the symbol and the logical, the symbol  > overrides the logical. > G > Personally, I would rather see all these stored in a X style resource J > file. Why ? because it would make it much easier for some application toE > have neat dialogs, drop down lists etc to let the user update those  > settings.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:15:29 -0400 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report ( Message-ID: <ehj4c2$nfb$1@pyrite.mv.net>   JF Mezei wrote: I > Tonight, I embarked into a fairly minor surgery for my DS10L, namely to I > improve its ventilation characteristics. I am not comfortable with such B > a hot portion of the machine in term of long term survivability. >  > part 1:  Fan intakes ...  > Other modifications...  F Those metal grills are intended to contain the radio frequency within C the box (basic shielding against TV, radio or other communications  G interference, etc), to prevent fingers and fuzz from entering the fans  I and entering the enclosures (wasn't there a British Standard for various  F objects, adult fingers and otherwise?), and are a central part of the K cooling design of any system manufactured in the last twenty or more years.   > The biggest problem with cooling I've encountered on most any G AlphaServer is fuzz in the airflow sensors (pitot tubes or otherwise),  ? on the fans, or fuzz built up in the heatsinks for the various  I components.  This can be remediated with a periodic cleaning -- a couple  H of times a year in a typical office environment, and more or less often 
 as needed.  G The shake-and-bake lab -- the accelerated system environmental testing  G that is typical of most products -- has tended to isolate and identify  G any thermal problems long before the systems have shipped.  As part of  H this, there are EMI/RFI scans.  And so long as the air is unimpeded and D within thermal and humidity spec, the systems are designed with and 4 provide sufficient cooling -- with the metal grills.  I Since you've apparently now voided your warrantee (based on what David T  E replied in the thread) and you're seriously looking at gaining a few  I degrees C on the processor, you might as well transplant the motherboard  I over into a bigger box and set up a water-block and a water-cooling rig.  ?   Margin the memory and processor voltages and the tweak clock  D multiplier and you could use that extra cooling to try to seriously % overclock that AlphaServer DS10L box.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:15:53 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report * Message-ID: <453cc08a@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:453C81BB.7A7C2C95@teksavvy.com...   > J > What I don't quite understand is why they didn't simply duct the hot CPUJ > exhaust directly to the outside instead of dumping it to the back of theF > cabinet and heat the components that are unluckily located there andH > then use a second fan further away to finally push that air out. (withD > second fan not as powerful as the blower use for the CPU housing). >  > E > (I realise that they had to work within the confines of an existing J > motherboard which they couldn't change, but ventilation is one area that  > they had to redesign anyways). >   K Not that I am an expert here, but we employ experts who design the cooling. K Just because you have reduced the average temp of the out flow doesn't mean L you have done yourself or the system a favor - the airflow over the criticalB areas that need to be cooled may have been altered, increasing the@ probability of an early failure because of a localized hot spot.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:07:20 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report 9 Message-ID: <GKydnZq68sNQg6DYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@libcom.com>   # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: D > i hate to be a killjoy but JF you have just voided your warranty ! >  > David  >    WOW!  That's pretty neat!   D You GIVE away a computer, and still provide a warranty!  Astounding!  E I can understand a warranty when you sell a system, but on a gift, I   never would have expected such.   H (Hey, it's JF, what did anybody expect?  For once he was going to worry & about the reprecussions of his ideas?)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:30:46 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report 0 Message-ID: <12jq9jrg02o2db8@news.supernews.com>  @ What good would a gift be if it died 10 days after receiving it?0 Warranties show your trust in your own product ! Whether sold or gifted.        --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message3 news:GKydnZq68sNQg6DYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@libcom.com... % > Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: F > > i hate to be a killjoy but JF you have just voided your warranty ! > > 	 > > David  > >  >  > WOW!  That's pretty neat!  > F > You GIVE away a computer, and still provide a warranty!  Astounding! > F > I can understand a warranty when you sell a system, but on a gift, I! > never would have expected such.  > I > (Hey, it's JF, what did anybody expect?  For once he was going to worry ( > about the reprecussions of his ideas?) >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:42:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report , Message-ID: <453D453D.424BE8E8@teksavvy.com>  % "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote:  > D > i hate to be a killjoy but JF you have just voided your warranty !    $ Well, then, I want my money back :-)    H Seriously, this is more of a pilot project. When i get mroe DS10Ls, I'll' know what is worth and not worth doing.     C In my all mighty Microvax II, I had to enlarge a small cutout so it P would draw more air from the disk cavity to keep two disks cool and comfortable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:53:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report , Message-ID: <453D47EC.33B9C713@teksavvy.com>  % "Island Computers, D B Turner" wrote:  > M > The heat sensor from what I know of the DS10L is at the front right next to C > where either a second disk or the CDROM/Floppy combo would mount.   E Nop, this cannot be. The tempoerature in the front of my unit is near H room temperature.  There is a gizmo there that is warm, attached to someG container for the second drive. But this is connected only to the power ! supply. (probably some resistor).   M The only place one can find temperatures above 40C is at the CPU and beyond.   H > If you have ANY kind of hard drive mounted there it is going to give a2 > higher termperature reading than no disk at all.  B Yep because air flows from the front towards the back before beingF sucked into the CPU area. So if you have heat generation in the front,5 then the air flwing into the CPU area will be warmer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:39:15 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report 9 Message-ID: <CpmdnVEP_NMaw6DYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@libcom.com>   # Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: B > What good would a gift be if it died 10 days after receiving it?2 > Warranties show your trust in your own product ! > Whether sold or gifted.    Great!  F I promise not to perform 'surgery' on my nice new (to me) shiny DS10L.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:31:28 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> # Subject: Re: Fw: FTP fails to start 0 Message-ID: <453D7B00.5E81A525@spam.comcast.net>   David D Miller wrote:  >  > Folks: > 4 > I think I found the problem.  Confirmation please. >  > $DIR/SEC DKA0:000000.DIR >  > has ACLs as follows  > B > (DEFAULT_PROTECTION, SYSTEM=RWED, OWNER=RWED, GROUP=RE, WORLD=E)  > (IDENT=bla bla, not TCPIP$FTP) > (IDENT=*, ACCESS=NONE) > B > I think I need to add READ access for TCPIP$FTP.  Is that right?   Looks like a winner to me!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:39:05 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> N Subject: Re: How former HP support staff needs to form a new US supportcenter!0 Message-ID: <453D7CC9.4A0FE57F@spam.comcast.net>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: > 7 > David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> writes:  > 1 > > It is written: "Every (man) has (his) price."  > @ > They may have a price, but IMO, there are a lot with no value.  @ Hence our dilemma. HP does not fully grasp the value of OpenVMS.  K To quote one of my mentors, "Until you know value, everything is wothless!"    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 10:49:33 -0700 From: twnews@kittles.com, Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cutsB Message-ID: <1161625773.329492.67470@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > > Simon Clubley wrote:G > >> In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil * > >> Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > >>% > >>> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts ; > >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  > >>> ' > >> Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  > >>K > > Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > > you would not need to ask!!  >  > My prediction: > E > HP finishes destroying all institutional knowledge of VMS, at which A > point one to many largish entities with ultra-expensive support F > contracts haul HP into court for an assortment of egregious contractA > violations.  The resulting court costs and/or settlement and/or I > judgments will be orders of magnitude larger than the pennies that they G > ostensibly saved by destroying the product.  HP is trying to have its J > cake and eat it too: keep the lucrative support contracts without reallyG > being able to provide the support.  That's a very stupid game to play H > when at least some of the people HP is trying to screw have legions of > lawyers at their disposal.  E I agree with the general thought, but more likely the large customers C will complain and before it goes to court HP will settle with them. F Settlement most likely including access to the last remaining experts,G SLA's (with cash penalties), and reduced support cost.  This or similar C scenarios would have the same effect.  Reduced income (and possible B increased cost).  I could also see them offering free hardware andE license transfers to migrate them to a different platform even though  support may be no better there.   F Either way this is very bad for VMS.  The had writing may have been onD the wall before, but if the rest of these lay offs happen (and maybeG too many have already happened), then it does look like VMS is terminal F (bad pun intended).  It MAY not be too late for HP to fix this problemB that they have created, but it seems to be getting close.  If theyG continue down this path they are simply throwing away the large revenue E stream that is VMS support.  They may have grossly underestimated how F long some of us will keep our HP VMS phone support contracts before weE switch to 3rd party VMS support that uses the experts that previously  supported us at HP.   A I am not advocating switching yet, but I am ready to switch if HP F support lets me down over the next 8 months (when my contract comes up
 for renewal).    Thomas Wirt  Operations Manager Kittle's Home Furnishings  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:19:05 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts+ Message-ID: <ehj12p$nsv$1@naig.caltech.edu>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:z > In article <ifCXTYMj7lEe@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:k >> In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: # >>> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 9 >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272 % >> Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  > & > Oouch. There is this question again. > 8 > "Can DEC really be this stupid, this would be suicide"> They were and they're gone.  Management made out like bandits.  ; > "Can Compaq really be this stupid, this would be suicide" > They were and they're gone.  Management made out like bandits.F (Ok, the Compaq name lives on but it's now just another HP trademark.)  > > "Can HP really be this stupid, this would be the end of VMS"> Yes. HP won't be gone because of this since VMS isn't that bigA a part of  their business.  Management made out... oh never mind.    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 20:03:57 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts* Message-ID: <453d202d@news.langstoeger.at>  x In article <ifCXTYMj7lEe@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:i >In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: " >> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts8 >> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272 > # >Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(   $ Oouch. There is this question again.  6 "Can DEC really be this stupid, this would be suicide"9 "Can Compaq really be this stupid, this would be suicide" < "Can HP really be this stupid, this would be the end of VMS"  9 >I wonder if VMS is about to enter maintainence mode. :-(   ? I surely do hope that VMS will survive, but I'm still in doubt.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:54:59 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts: Message-ID: <KtSdnRN4lokWkqDYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Doug Phillips wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  >>Simon Clubley wrote: >>k >>>In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >>>  >>> # >>>>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 9 >>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >>>> >>>  >>> % >>>Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  >>>  >>I >>Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  >>you would not need to ask!!  >  > I > Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people into $ > *large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did? >   G One of my friends, is, and has been for many years, the "resident" for   Ford Motor Corporation.   : Since there's at least one, there are probably a few more.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 12:40:19 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cutsB Message-ID: <1161632418.954153.88380@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote: > > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > >  > >>Simon Clubley wrote: > >>m > >>>In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  > >>>  > >>> % > >>>>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts ; > >>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  > >>>> > >>>  > >>> ' > >>>Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  > >>>  > >>K > >>Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > >>you would not need to ask!!  > >  > > K > > Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people into & > > *large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did? > >  > H > One of my friends, is, and has been for many years, the "resident" for > Ford Motor Corporation.  >   : I knew that, and that's why I hung the reply on your post.  < > Since there's at least one, there are probably a few more.  E I thought I remembered that your friend wasn't doing that any longer. D I'm probably misremembering, though. He used to pop in here every so often.  " I still miss the old CS VAX forum.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 13:00:36 -0700) From: "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cutsC Message-ID: <1161633636.072373.231220@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Doug Phillips wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > > Simon Clubley wrote:n > > > In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > > > % > > >>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts ; > > >>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  > > >> > > >  > > > ( > > > Can HP really be this stupid ? :-( > > >  > > K > > Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  > > you would not need to ask!!  > I > Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people into $ > *large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did?  E Well, I haven't seen him *today*, but as of last week we still had an  on-site person; sometimes more.    WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:19:26 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts9 Message-ID: <frKdnRzg4d4-vKDYnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Simon Clubley wrote:r > In article <bMidnaRKsJOBW6HYnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: >> Simon Clubley wrote: l >>> In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >>> $ >>>> HP eyes top VMS people for cuts: >>>> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272& >>> Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(K >> Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,   >> you would not need to ask!! > L > Although I don't post to comp.os.vms as much as I used to, I do keep trackN > of what HP are up to with regards to VMS, and _if_ this happens as describedI > then it would be a new level of poor decision making on the part of HP.  > J > It could also be the thing that finally finishes off VMS - no matter howI > much one may like VMS, if you can't get proper support for it, then you H > are going to be forced towards inferior products that _are_ supported. >  > Simon. >   H Or just toward cheaper products that have equally poor support.  People - won't pay a premium for non-premium products.   E Typical beancounter, they want the revenue, but not the costs.  What  ? they do with their spreadsheets just doesn't work in real life.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:02:35 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts: Message-ID: <UoSdneJjJcfosKDYnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Doug Phillips wrote:   > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  >>Doug Phillips wrote: >> >>>Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>>  >>>  >>>>Simon Clubley wrote: >>>> >>>>m >>>>>In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> % >>>>>>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts ; >>>>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> ' >>>>>Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  >>>>>  >>>>K >>>>Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  >>>>you would not need to ask!!  >>>  >>> J >>>Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people into% >>>*large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did?  >>>  >>H >>One of my friends, is, and has been for many years, the "resident" for >>Ford Motor Corporation.  >> >  > < > I knew that, and that's why I hung the reply on your post. >  > < >>Since there's at least one, there are probably a few more. >  > G > I thought I remembered that your friend wasn't doing that any longer. F > I'm probably misremembering, though. He used to pop in here every so > often. > $ > I still miss the old CS VAX forum. >   = That was VMS in it's heyday!  Alas!  I miss it too.  And DEC  3 Professional.  And the folks at Professional Press.   H Stu does still pop in here every once in a while but, since most of the E traffic here is no longer VMS Technical, I doubt that he finds it as   interesting as it once was.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:19:54 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts4 Message-ID: <ehjblt$5h5$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Doug Phillips wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  >>Simon Clubley wrote: >>k >>>In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >>> # >>>>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts 9 >>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35272  >>> % >>>Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  >>I >>Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attention,  >>you would not need to ask!!  > I > Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people into $ > *large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did?  G Well, I used to be one such a person (in the UK) for DEC, later Compaq,  at SmithKline-Beecham.  D I am now half such a person (i.e. I do half, someone else does half)G at a large account in the UK for the competition (http://www.tesl.com).   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:33:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts, Message-ID: <453D4344.5B5D3D71@teksavvy.com>   David Mathog wrote: E > HP finishes destroying all institutional knowledge of VMS, at which A > point one to many largish entities with ultra-expensive support F > contracts haul HP into court for an assortment of egregious contract > violations.       H Contract violations ? Would the contracts stipulate that HP is forced toF ratian experienced people like Hoff ? Does the contract stipulate thatF the person answering the phone must havce X years experience minimum ?  B Consider that really key contracts probably already have speciallyA assigned support people which bypass the normal support channels.     G And in terms of HP abandonning VMS, while it certaintly looks that way, G and while HP is doing nothing to appeased VMS customers, it is entirely H possible that HP UX and Tandem are also losing key people. Remember that! JURD is killing 15,000 employees.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:59:36 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>, Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts) Message-ID: <op.thwk5mpwtte90l@hyrrokkin>   I On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:40:32 -0700, Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net=  >  =   wrote:   > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >> Simon Clubley wrote: I >> > In article <453c97b3$0$14811$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil =   =  ( >> Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >> >$ >> >>HP eyes top VMS people for cuts< >> >>http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=3D35272 >> >>  >> > >> >' >> > Can HP really be this stupid ? :-(  >> > >>I >> Where have you BEEN all these years?  If you had been paying attentio=  n, >> you would not need to ask!! > I > Does anyone know if HP still puts full-time on-site support people int=  o $ > *large" accounts like DEC/PAQ did? >  Yes.     -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:16:14 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts[ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2310062216420001@dialup-4.233.173.192.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>   5 In article <453D4344.5B5D3D71@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:      >Remember that" >JURD is killing 15,000 employees.   You are WAY out of line, fool.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:58:54 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts< Message-ID: <453d8111$0$14827$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:453D4344.5B5D3D71@teksavvy.com... [...snip...] > I > And in terms of HP abandonning VMS, while it certaintly looks that way, I > and while HP is doing nothing to appeased VMS customers, it is entirely J > possible that HP UX and Tandem are also losing key people. Remember that# > JURD is killing 15,000 employees.  > I I suspect that Compaq and Tandem jobs are being cut while traditional HP  
 jobs are not.    Hey, it's the new HP way.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:07:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts, Message-ID: <453D917B.916967C4@teksavvy.com>   Neil Rieck wrote: J > I suspect that Compaq and Tandem jobs are being cut while traditional HP > jobs are not.     E SUSPECT is the keyword here. We don't know for sure whether cuts have 0 affected VMS more than other BCS products at HP.  E My suspicion is that Scott Stallard's pet projects are less touched.    B BTW, it goes Ann McQuaid -> Rich Marcello -> Scott Stallard -> Ann Livermore -> Mark Hurd.     F Since employees in charge of VMS had traditionally never really foughtF within the owning corporation to get VMS its due space, I suspect that. they didn't fight much to be spared some cuts.  C For instance, it is possible that Stallard ordered 15% cuts in BCS. H Then, HP-UX and Storage fight to justify their existance,   and StallardB OKs that they need to only cut 5%. VMS is left at 15% because theyH didn't fight. So on average, it matches the Hurd directive for 10% cuts.    F Since HP management do not communicate with their customers/community,/ we are left to speculate, and that is VERY BAD.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:06:56 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> Subject: Item codes in F$GETDVI % Message-ID: <1161630408.696147@smirk>   > Since I recently got a Fiber (Fibre) Channel card in my Alpha,< I was playing with the FC-related item codes in F$GETDVI, as* documented in the VMS v8.3 DCL Dictionary.  7 One of them, FC_HBA_FIRMWARE_REV, does not appear to be 8 recognized.   Am I missing something obvious, or is this a documentation error?  ;    $ Write sys$output f$getdvi("fga0:", "device_type_name")     KGPSA Fibre Channel  >    $ Write sys$output f$getdvi("fga0:", "fc_hba_firmware_rev")D    %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling    \FC_HBA_FIRMWARE_REV\  ; (I typed the above rather than use cut-and-paste, so please  excuse typos.)   Thanks,  Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 15:12:57 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)# Subject: Re: Item codes in F$GETDVI , Message-ID: <mmcf$iVoiyxR@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  6 Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:  9 > One of them, FC_HBA_FIRMWARE_REV, does not appear to be : > recognized.   Am I missing something obvious, or is this > a documentation error? > = >    $ Write sys$output f$getdvi("fga0:", "device_type_name")  >    KGPSA Fibre Channel > @ >    $ Write sys$output f$getdvi("fga0:", "fc_hba_firmware_rev")F >    %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling >    \FC_HBA_FIRMWARE_REV\   KIDD Alpha> sho sys/noprocH OpenVMS V8.3  on node KIDD  23-OCT-2006 15:13:22.38  Uptime  12 23:28:45F KIDD Alpha> write sys$output f$getdvi( "fga0", "fc_hba_firmware_rev" ) HS1.90A4   --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 15:17:03 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)# Subject: Re: Item codes in F$GETDVI , Message-ID: <1MLkt$l+Wvbs@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  6 Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes: > = >    $ Write sys$output f$getdvi("fga0:", "device_type_name")  >    KGPSA Fibre Channel  3 Coming soon (including a backport to V7.3-2 . . . )   @ KIDD Alpha> write sys$output f$getdvi( "fga0", "adapter_ident" ) KGPSA-EA (Emulex LP9802)  D This item code pulls the string from sys$system:config.dat (well, itC technically pulls it from memory, whose source is the config file).    --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:32:50 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)% Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) $ Message-ID: <ehj8ti$j9j$1@online.de>  B In article <453bd464$0$14871$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil& Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:   K > > Suppose you got 1000 emails each day saying that you were "on the list" J > > and providing you with instructions on how to get off the list?  WouldJ > > you still not mind?  (Of course, most "click here to be removed" linksL > > merely confirm that the email has actually been read, making the address > > more valuable to spammers.)  > > I > I see your point but must admit that email coming from certain sources  L > (OpenVMS vendors, OpenVMS colleagues) is perceived differently by me than 2 > other kinds of topics I don't give a damn about.  I Yes, but in general the sender doesn't know how much the receiver values  H the emails.  Maybe some guy somewhere says "hey, this penis-enlargement D stuff is JUST what I've been looking for; I'm happy someone told me G about it".  That doesn't justify sending that spam to people who don't   want it.  N > We've all griped about OpenVMS not being embraced by the computer public at 	 > large.    	 Agreed.     D > So I, for one, will never be pissed off when one of these OpenVMS 8 > companies takes the occasional liberty with my INBOX.   H Of course, not all computer developments are positive.  VMS isn't being 1 done a service by becoming part of the spamflood.    > As I wrote previously M > in another posting, clicking on a opt-out link with a reputable company is  M > not the same as clicking on the opt-out link of a professional spammer who  @ > will almost always sell your email address to another spammer.  ? True, but how is the user to know whether company is reputable?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:07:44 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) 0 Message-ID: <453D7570.436658EF@spam.comcast.net>   Neil Rieck wrote:  > H > On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from ParsecN > telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists. This email also told meJ > how to remove myself from their mailing lists if I so desired. So I hopeG > this action on their part puts to rest the SPAM label someone in this  > newsgroup hung on them.   K I got the same message. There are links embedded; however, the remove links G simply invoke your local e-mail user agent to send an e-mail to Parsec.   , > IMHO, spam is the "penny stock" and "penisL > enlargement" crap I don't give a damn about and can't stop. Invitations toL > OpenVMS webinars, OpenVMS training and OpenVMS support etc. is something I1 > do care about and can stop so this is not spam.    I agree.  O I hate spam as much as the next person. There is very good reason to be wary of N the usual remove links that invoke another website (not an obvious associationM to the sender), speaking as someone with first-hand knowledge of the internal G workings of the mass-mail marketing industry, so I do agree with that.    L However, I do think the original post was a bit of a knee-jerk. Sorry, JF...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:56:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) , Message-ID: <453D8EEB.8AFC307D@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: N > However, I do think the original post was a bit of a knee-jerk. Sorry, JF...  ? Knee jerk ? You bet. But it was necessary. There should be zero E tolerance for ANY spam. SPAM must not be seen as a viable advertising C method. If any corporation, legit or not, uses SPAM, it must end up 3 costing it more than it brings in in added revenus.   < Once this is established, then corporatrions know to be goodG net-citizens and use email very judiciously and learn about proper ways  to advertise on the net.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:20:22 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>% Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) = Message-ID: <qoh%g.13816$TV3.7440@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>   I I usually lurk on "off topic" post like this but I have to jump in.  From L first hand experience Parsec provides excellent training services.  Here's aG company offering a free training sample, with useful up to date OpenVMS K information.  You sign up and yes, they want to try to sell something, it's L their business.  For the cost of deleting an e-mail you get a short trainingH session.  The ones I've been able to attend have all been worth my time.  J There's a lot of complaing about stealth marketing, but when a vendor sendK out a marketing blurb a thread like this starts.  What sort of message does 
 that send?  K Parsec is providing free training samples and I'm happy to get that notice. K Since I've started with a new company and came in as one the VMS guys, this J is an opportunity to stay current.  If you can't take the time to scan and, delete an e-mail message, ask to be dropped.     --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote in message* news:453D7570.436658EF@spam.comcast.net... > Neil Rieck wrote:  > > J > > On Friday (2006-10-20) I received a very responsible email from ParsecH > > telling me that I was on one of their mailing lists. This email also told me L > > how to remove myself from their mailing lists if I so desired. So I hopeI > > this action on their part puts to rest the SPAM label someone in this  > > newsgroup hung on them.  > G > I got the same message. There are links embedded; however, the remove  links I > simply invoke your local e-mail user agent to send an e-mail to Parsec.  > . > > IMHO, spam is the "penny stock" and "penisK > > enlargement" crap I don't give a damn about and can't stop. Invitations  toL > > OpenVMS webinars, OpenVMS training and OpenVMS support etc. is something I 3 > > do care about and can stop so this is not spam.  > 
 > I agree. > I > I hate spam as much as the next person. There is very good reason to be  wary of D > the usual remove links that invoke another website (not an obvious association F > to the sender), speaking as someone with first-hand knowledge of the internalH > workings of the mass-mail marketing industry, so I do agree with that. > H > However, I do think the original post was a bit of a knee-jerk. Sorry, JF...  >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > ( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page# > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/  > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:57:42 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>: Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6@ Message-ID: <craigberry-1D6036.14574223102006@free.teranews.com>  3 In article <ffbvERsibFXj@eisner.encompasserve.org>,    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:    E > You should certainly follow Paul Sture's advice and put your script   > into an appropriate directory.   Agreed.   C > To answer the more general question, DCL is not a Unix shell.  It E > doesn't support the "magic number" convention whereby the first few E > bytes of a file identify the shell, interpreter or application that F > can reasonably execute the file.  There is no way within the text ofC > the procedure to choose a particular shell or interpreter to use.   E Well, there is a documented hack that will simulate the shebang line:   ( http://perldoc.perl.org/perlrun.html#VMS  H You basically create a command procedure that has only enough DCL in it G to re-run itself as a Perl script.  You can then put the DCL procedure  C in DCL$PATH or use any other standard method for running a command  0 procedure and it will start Perl and run itself.   --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2006 14:41:38 -0700( From: "Carl Karcher" <wolf351@gmail.com>: Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6C Message-ID: <1161639698.888009.172180@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   B An alternative to putting perl scripts in apache$common:[perl] (or> using the clever hack Craig Berry mentioned) is to modify yourF mod_perl.conf file to tell mod_perl to run them elsewhere. For example  this in your mod_perl.conf file:   <files *.pl>         sethandler perl-script$         PerlHandler ModPerl::PerlRun         PerlSendHeader On *         Allow from yourhost.yourdomain.com         Options ExecCGI  </files>  G would attempt to run perl scripts (.pl files) from any directory apache E is permitted to serve. Of course this may not be appropriate for your 0 security policy. With the recent fix to mod_perl= (CSWS_PERL21_UPDATE V1.0), most perl scripts should run under  ModPerl::PerlRun as is.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 03:43:06 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> : Subject: Re: Problem with apache 2.0.52 and mod perl 5.8.6J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-DC4595.03430624102006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1161639698.888009.172180@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, *  "Carl Karcher" <wolf351@gmail.com> wrote:  D > An alternative to putting perl scripts in apache$common:[perl] (or@ > using the clever hack Craig Berry mentioned) is to modify yourH > mod_perl.conf file to tell mod_perl to run them elsewhere. For example" > this in your mod_perl.conf file: >  > <files *.pl>  >         sethandler perl-script& >         PerlHandler ModPerl::PerlRun >         PerlSendHeader On , >         Allow from yourhost.yourdomain.com >         Options ExecCGI 
 > </files> > I > would attempt to run perl scripts (.pl files) from any directory apache G > is permitted to serve. Of course this may not be appropriate for your 2 > security policy. With the recent fix to mod_perl? > (CSWS_PERL21_UPDATE V1.0), most perl scripts should run under  > ModPerl::PerlRun as is.    Thanks for that tip Karl.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:37:45 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> . Subject: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 3< Message-ID: <453d43de$0$14829$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  H A new version of SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) Evaluation Release 3 is available for  download from:  5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html   , Yikes! ER #2 was only available for 2 weeks.    Neil Rieck  Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada."  http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:18:43 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> 3 Subject: Re: SAS desupport article from openvms.org 0 Message-ID: <453D7803.FC50C113@spam.comcast.net>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  > D > Shucks, fooled again.  I thought you'd got out of the "VMS must beD > ported to 8086" argument.  You were, in fact, just letting us hang > until the 5th paragraph. >  > Oh well...  N x86 is *THE* most prominent server CPU architecture on the planet. I don't seeA that changing in my lifetime, it will just be extended to x86-64.   5 ...and until such time as it does change, guess what?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:37:22 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: Shadow copy taking a while 0 Message-ID: <453D7C62.AE3C3F72@spam.comcast.net>   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  >  > Hello  > Heres the conf9 > VAX 3100-90 32megs VMS 7.3 with volume shadowing enable H > 2  SEAGATE SX150176LC drives. It is going on 48 hours for the copy and > its only at 77%. I am F > wondering if this is normal?  I know that this VAX is not that fast,H > but still it seems like its just taking too long. When you do a shadowF > copy does it copy block to block or byte to byte or what? The masterE > drive had less then a gig or data on it. I need to shut this system G > down and move it to its correct place. I know that if I shut down the D > system and reboot it the shadowing copy will start again. Is thereI > anyway of speeding this process up besides going to a new IA64/Alpha!!!  > thanks > phil  H The shadow driver is actually agnostic of the file-system present on theM volumes. It will read-read-compare[-reconcile] the entire physical volume(s).   I That said, how big are the drives in question (is that 50Gig?)? Any error / counts? Anything else going on on this machine?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:15:33 +0930 % From: Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au> ' Subject: Re: Shadow copy taking a while 0 Message-ID: <12jr6je2h9cvmc8@corp.supernews.com>  % You could try the magical incantation   1      $ define/system shad$merge_delay_factor 2000   : but I don't know if this affects shadow *copy* operations.   	Jeremy Begg   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  > Hello  > Heres the conf9 > VAX 3100-90 32megs VMS 7.3 with volume shadowing enable H > 2  SEAGATE SX150176LC drives. It is going on 48 hours for the copy and > its only at 77%. I am F > wondering if this is normal?  I know that this VAX is not that fast,H > but still it seems like its just taking too long. When you do a shadowF > copy does it copy block to block or byte to byte or what? The masterE > drive had less then a gig or data on it. I need to shut this system G > down and move it to its correct place. I know that if I shut down the D > system and reboot it the shadowing copy will start again. Is thereI > anyway of speeding this process up besides going to a new IA64/Alpha!!!  > thanks > phil >    --       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:13:47 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> , Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.0 Message-ID: <453D76DB.E8B77C96@spam.comcast.net>   Dave Froble wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > John Santos wrote: > >> [snip] F > >> On the other hand, "UCX" implies a fairly old version, since theyH > >> changed the name to "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS" some time ago, > >> [snip]  > > Q > > Well, no , not really. "UCX" is only three letters while "TCP/IP Services for 2 > > OpenVMS" is four words, 27 keystrokes to type. > > S > > Which would *YOU* rather repeat umpteen times in a Usenet post / presentation /  > > document / ... ? > > @ > > When I say "UCX" most everyone knows what I'm talking about. > >  > G > No, I don't think so.  When I read UCX I think "DEC's TCP/IP services I > prior to version 5.0.  When I read TCP/IP and we're talking about VMS I . > think DEC's TCP/IP services V5.0 and beyond. > ( > UCX and 8086 are not current products.   Agreed.   K However, to distinguish between TCP/IP the network stack (regardless of the K product/vendor) and TCP/IP Services the product, I will continue to use the  "UCX" reference.  P If, at some future point, Process Software is no longer a player in that market,+ the distinction may no longer be necessary.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:33:19 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>, Subject: Re: Unix admin needs some pointers.> Message-ID: <zAh%g.13817$TV3.13243@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>  K If you have a training budget www.parsec.com and http://www.brudenossg.com/ J provide excellent training.  You can also look at http://www.bh.com/ for aL add on documentation.  Depending on your location there are many outstandingF consultants who can provide you a baseline and some hands on training.  H Depending on the system and how critical it is, I'd consider documentingJ training shortfalls and potential issues.  Nothing like a paper trail when it starts to fly.    --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     ' <jrmorrisnc@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1161412600.510296.138270@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...  > Hello, > F > I've recently inherited a Alpha system running OpenVMS... I'm a UnixE > admin, and this is in production for mission critical applications.  > F > I have an old DEC VMS User Guide, and google, and of course a lot ofA > mindset and skills highly relevant to Unix systems and probably  > detrimental on VMS systems.  > E > I need pointers to a crash course in VMS administration. Or a book, E > books, etc. I am a recent hire and the VMS admin was asked to leave E > (despite my recommendations, in fact). What little documentation on I > things like backup procedures and so forth tends toward the general and H > vague rather than specific and procedural. I was hired as a Unix/LinuxE > admin, and at no point did I ever say or did my resume mention VMS. H > Probably because I've never worked with it ;-). However, I've also hadI > it made abundantly clear to me that that is not a sufficient reason for ? > any failures to administer this system properly, immediately.  > H > The help command and some web references have been helpful; I've foundH > the search command and how to move to the MFD of physical disks... But, > to say I'm at a loss is an understatement. > G > One of the problems is backups have to continue properly, and another I > is there are many DCL scripts that fire off reports to management about E > the system, with the previous admin's e-mail address in them, which F > unfortunately the searches I've done have not turned up all of them.E > I'm being pressured to resolve that immediately if not sooner but I  > have nothing much to go on.  > B > I'm needing an overview of things like scheduling, what jobs areG > running, auditing and accounting and reports, how things are laid out F > (like, where's VMS's /etc & /var equivalents, or how is that sort of > thing handled?)... > @ > I appreciate any advice or help anyone can offer, thanks much! >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:43:45 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>C Subject: Re: Using Cobol when writing CGI's for the OSU web server. - Message-ID: <2ld%g.22758$2g4.6737@dukeread09>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:0 > In article <mOR_g.22728$2g4.22622@dukeread09>,( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:! >> But maybe in another 15 years.  > E > Not in 50 if someone (with the ability) doesn't decide that it is a 8 > serious enough problem to actually do something about. >  >> It doesn't work.  > F > What doesn't work?  My string approach?  Won't know that til someone > tries it.   ; Guess what. Sentences are placed in a certain order for for 	 a reason.   3 That sentence is related to the previous sentences.    >> People realize the problem. >>, >> And they are changing to other languages. >>= >> Non OO languages are considered obsolete in most areas, so ( >> noone sees the need for this feature. >  > Speaking of opinion!!   7 No. That is easy to document if you look at what skills  are required in job ads.  = >> C# was definatetly technology driven to provide MS with an  >> alternative to Java.  > F > No, C# was politics driven.  MS was damned if they were going to letH > Sun hog the spotlight and control the direction programming was going.   No.   < They needed something more structured than VB6 and something easier than C++ COM.  H >> What is wrong with writing an OS in Java ? To be more precisely: most >> of the OS in Java ? > G > How about the fact that in order to run Java you have to already have I > an OS on which to run the VM?  Although the Gnu people are fighting it, E > Sun has been pretty adamant that Java compilers not generate native E > code but only Java Byte Code.  Sure, you could write an OS is Java, H > but it would be running on top of some other OS which kind of makes it > moot.    Wrong.  ; >> MS has already made a toy OS with most of the code being , >> managed (equivalent to running in a JVM). > > > And it runs where?  In Windows?  On top of a Windows kernel?   In itself. No. No.  % >> Your view about OS's are outdated.  > G > Really?  In what way?  Do you have a Java VM that can run directly on ! > an Alpha with no underlying OS?   E No. But MS had an OS where the native part is (quote from wikipedia):  "interrupt dispatch code".  @ Of the 50 million lines of code in a modern OS maybe 10000 needs
 to be native.   @ I think it is a rather safe bet that the next big OS will not be
 written in C.   ? If there ever will be a new big OS. There are not much evidence  of such happening.  @ IBM have created a JVM where most of the JVM is written in Java.1 They just bootstrap in in native and off they go.   ?  >                        And we won't even go into things like - > the VAX or PDP-11 which can never run Java.   ) No. And ? That means that they are dead !    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:55:54 -0400 / From: "Randal T. Rioux" <randy@procyonlabs.com> - Subject: Re: VMS DCL script programmer needed ' Message-ID: <1161662249_63@news-east.n>    Wilm Boerhout wrote:  6 > on 21-10-2006 20:15 Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote... > [...]  >>  E >> Curiously then most recent entry there is also for a job in Reston  >> VA... >>  % >> "Posted by: dmannarano (IP Logged) ! >> Date: October 20, 2006 03:35PM ? >> WINbatch scripting contract in Rockville, MD or Reston VA. "  >  > most likely scenario:  >  > MGR1: hey, we need a scripter  > RES1: ok, I'll put out an APB ) > MGR1: hey, it says sommut like MVS here 1 > RES1: oh, starting with M, should be Msoft then  > F > (later, someone finds out the real need and asks for a DCL scripter) >   ) Close, but here's some less vague detail.   G This is a position I need on my team for a recently extended government C contract (the company: STG Inc., Reston, Virginia). My team handles G Solaris, Oracle, Cisco, OpenVMS, etc. The other team does the Microsoft K stuff (such as WinBatch scripting, separate position). I try to stay out of  their affairs :-)   J Rockville, MD is where we are. Reston, VA is HQ. We are moving our officesK to HQ in December. Except me. Because I hate going to the office and I have ( racks of test equipment here in the lab.  I This position is W2/Contract. You can work from Greenland if you want, as J long as you have a good Internet connection, crazy DCL skills (MUMPS would be nice, too) and a phone.  F If anyone is interested, you can contact the original poster (Kate) asK requested. Or myself at rrioux@stginc.com. Or, if you are paranoid like me, < use my public key and send your encrypted list of demands to randy@procyonlabs.com.  
 Thanks folks!    --   Randal T. Rioux | Procyon Labs IT Security R&D and Consulting Virtual: www.procyonlabs.com Physical: DC / Baltimore7 PGP: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0xD08D1941       8  Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services: ----------------------------------------------------------7     ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** B ----------------------------------------------------------        %                 http://www.usenet.com    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.584 ************************