1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 25 Oct 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 586       Contents: Re: ADA link messages  Re: ADA link messages " Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?" Re: Alternate file types for RUN ?  CSWS expect header vulnerability$ Re: CSWS expect header vulnerability( Re: DCLTABLES.EXE and image file formats( Re: DCLTABLES.EXE and image file formats Re: DS10L surgery report# Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts # Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts  Re: Item codes in F$GETDVI Re: LAN failover
 Mylex card Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) Re: Request for kit & Re: Technology Forum session documents& Re: Technology Forum session documents1 Unisys targets 20 specific execs with advertising 5 Re: Unisys targets 20 specific execs with advertising 5 Re: Unisys targets 20 specific execs with advertising : VMS causing access violation when RTERMing to RSTS machine  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 14:32:13 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: ADA link messages3 Message-ID: <BsDqWRoLb4CX@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <OFEC362D0A.EDC651B0-ON07257211.0055C16D-07257211.005687A6@mck.us.ray.com>, David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> writes:  > Folks  > : > I'm getting multiple LINK message like the following ... > K > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$IO_EXCEPTIONS_$0000 multiple defined in module  > ..J > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$TEXT_IO_$0000 multiple defined in module  ...I > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$TEXT_IO$0000 multiple defined in module  ... M > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$INTEGER_TEXT_IO_$0000 multiple defined in module  > ..K > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$FLOAT_TEXT_IO_$0000 multiple defined in module  > ..J > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$MATH_LIB_$0000 multiple defined in module ...I > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$MATH_LIB$0000 multiple defined in module ... L > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$FLOAT_MATH_LIB_$0000 multiple defined in module > .. > I > and since I'm not an ADA-type, I'd like some suggestions to trace these  > warnings.   F You did not specify the command you are giving to produce that result.H It better not be a LINK command since with Ada you need to use ACS LINK.  B Look at the names of the modules on which you get the same symbol.C The most frequent cause in my experience is linking the same module D type.  If this is a complex system someone else configured, it could' be something wrong in the option files.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:21:15 -0700 , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Re: ADA link messagesV Message-ID: <OF3EAAB03B.F4AA759B-ON07257211.0074EE55-07257211.00753F93@mck.us.ray.com>   Larry:  G You guessed it.  I was thrown into a legacy system (which nobody really I understands) and told to "fix it".  Thanks for the tips.  I know a little D more what to look for.  I wondered why there was a FORTRAN interface program.   dave.   H Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote on 10/24/2006 12:32:13 PM:  ? > In article <OFEC362D0A.EDC651B0-ON07257211.0055C16D-07257211. J > 005687A6@mck.us.ray.com>, David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> writes:	 > > Folks  > > < > > I'm getting multiple LINK message like the following ... > > F > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$IO_EXCEPTIONS_$0000 multiple defined in module > > ..G > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$TEXT_IO_$0000 multiple defined in module  ..K > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$TEXT_IO$0000 multiple defined in module  ... H > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$INTEGER_TEXT_IO_$0000 multiple defined in module > > ..F > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$FLOAT_TEXT_IO_$0000 multiple defined in module > > ..H > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$MATH_LIB_$0000 multiple defined in module ..K > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$MATH_LIB$0000 multiple defined in module ... G > > %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol ADA$FLOAT_MATH_LIB_$0000 multiple defined in  module > > .. > > K > > and since I'm not an ADA-type, I'd like some suggestions to trace these 
 > > warnings.  > H > You did not specify the command you are giving to produce that result.J > It better not be a LINK command since with Ada you need to use ACS LINK. > D > Look at the names of the modules on which you get the same symbol.E > The most frequent cause in my experience is linking the same module F > type.  If this is a complex system someone else configured, it could) > be something wrong in the option files.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:18:11 -0400 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? ) Message-ID: <ehlse4$1eu3$1@pyrite.mv.net>    Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Stephen Hoffman wrote: K >>>    Or ask nicely for the source code, and port it all to x86-64 and fix ; >>> it or extend it for yourself for your specific needs.    > J > Do I detect an elevated level of sarcasm directed at JF, now that being ( > 'officially HP' is no longer an issue?  I    Sarcasm?  Nope.  That was intended as both a general statement of how  G I would proceed here, and secondarily as a query intended to determine  E the particular level of interest here.  In particular, if you're not  H overtly willing to port or fix or formally request or pay for something G yourself (whether individually or as part of a larger team), then your  7 upper-end level of investment is comparatively bounded.   F    If you really want something, you invariably pay for it somehow -- B whether directly through the vendor's pricing or support, through I contributing to the effort involved in open-source engineering, or (more  C subtly) through the many and various costs of using free software.  7 "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch", after all.   A    I recently watched a fellow that was looking for the absolute  G cheapest computer solution not to long ago, and it was apparent he had  E not realized that it was this drive for lowest costs that was at the  G core of the problems he was having with what he had already purchased.  H He was entirely unhappy with the lowest and slowest boxes, and with the F massively underconfigured systems his approach had led him to, and at D the increased costs of managing and maintaining all these older and G one-off boxes.  He wasn't looking at the costs of his own time and his  7 own investment and his own frustration.  But I digress.   A    If you wish to see OpenVMS ported onto x86-64 and/or you want  F enhancements to filename extension handling and image activation, you I can either make the case to the vendor to add it, you can pay the vendor  H to add it (and being capitalist, sufficiently large quantities of money I tend to garner the most attention), or you can seek to obtain the source  H code and either implement it yourself, or acquire same and then seek to ' convince somebody else to implement it.       + >>>  The file extensions are, well, an ugly K >>> and weak and primitive solution to the basic problem of identifying the ( >>> particular file contents, after all. >> >>C >> File extensions may be an old concept, but they make things much D >> simpler. If you remove the file extension, you need to change theI >> dirtectory listing to also list the file type stored in some metadata. $ >> So is there really a difference ?    G    The file extension mechanism makes things more complex and far more  G difficult, and far more problematic.  The mechanism only looks simple.  I Everybody ASSUMES they know what the extensions are, an ASSUMPTION which  E is at the root of the problem.  And then you get into the fun of the  C exact meaning of a .DAT or .DATA or a .COM (which can be DCL or an  C executable), or EXE (which can be any of various contents, whether  C different images on OpenVMS or different executables for different  A platforms, etc), or otherwise.  Printing.  Data formats.  Record  G formats.  Which sequential file .TXT formats are really portable, etc.  A Which application(s) are associated with which files, etc.  Is a  E directory that's not a .DIR really a directory?   What file transfer  F mode(s) should you use?  Data conversions, etc.  And then there's the A fun of the usually warring listings of file types and associated  E applications seen with MIME encoding, for instance.  All these track  H back to trying to use a period and a handful of user-entered characters C to try to differentiate contents, structure, use, application, etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:59:15 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 9 Message-ID: <OLSdnU-fcaXk4aPYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@libcom.com>    Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Stephen Hoffman wrote:L >>>>    Or ask nicely for the source code, and port it all to x86-64 and fix< >>>> it or extend it for yourself for your specific needs.   >>E >> Do I detect an elevated level of sarcasm directed at JF, now that  / >> being 'officially HP' is no longer an issue?  > J >   Sarcasm?  Nope.  That was intended as both a general statement of how I > I would proceed here, and secondarily as a query intended to determine  G > the particular level of interest here.  In particular, if you're not  J > overtly willing to port or fix or formally request or pay for something I > yourself (whether individually or as part of a larger team), then your  9 > upper-end level of investment is comparatively bounded.    Well, yeah.   G >   If you really want something, you invariably pay for it somehow --  D > whether directly through the vendor's pricing or support, through K > contributing to the effort involved in open-source engineering, or (more  E > subtly) through the many and various costs of using free software.  9 > "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch", after all.   , My problem with the 'open source' community.  K >   I recently watched a fellow that was looking for the absolute cheapest  D > computer solution not to long ago, and it was apparent he had not K > realized that it was this drive for lowest costs that was at the core of  H > the problems he was having with what he had already purchased. He was C > entirely unhappy with the lowest and slowest boxes, and with the  H > massively underconfigured systems his approach had led him to, and at F > the increased costs of managing and maintaining all these older and I > one-off boxes.  He wasn't looking at the costs of his own time and his  9 > own investment and his own frustration.  But I digress.   E Penny wise, dollar foolish.  Happens all the time.  Some learn, some   never learn.  B >   If you wish to see OpenVMS ported onto x86-64 and/or you want H > enhancements to filename extension handling and image activation, you K > can either make the case to the vendor to add it, you can pay the vendor  J > to add it (and being capitalist, sufficiently large quantities of money K > tend to garner the most attention), or you can seek to obtain the source  J > code and either implement it yourself, or acquire same and then seek to ) > convince somebody else to implement it.   G Very interesting, considering the source.  Being one who looks between  I the lines to see what might be written there, the above paragraph causes  G me to wonder.  Particularly the option concerning obtaining the source  D code.  Is some hidden statement about the possibilities of it being = available being made here?  Or am I reading only white space?   , >>>>  The file extensions are, well, an uglyL >>>> and weak and primitive solution to the basic problem of identifying the) >>>> particular file contents, after all.  >>>  >>> D >>> File extensions may be an old concept, but they make things muchE >>> simpler. If you remove the file extension, you need to change the J >>> dirtectory listing to also list the file type stored in some metadata.% >>> So is there really a difference ?   D Filename extensions are usually easily understood and known to most H people.  Whether the best solution or not, if it's a known solution, it  can be used.  H Filename extensions work for me.  I personally have no additional needs.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:24:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453E929F.C264D774@teksavvy.com>   Stephen Hoffman wrote:B >    If you wish to see OpenVMS ported onto x86-64 and/or you wantG > enhancements to filename extension handling and image activation, you J > can either make the case to the vendor to add it, you can pay the vendorI > to add it (and being capitalist, sufficiently large quantities of money & > tend to garner the most attention),     B Does Microsoft or Apple wait for customers to offer money to add aE feature ? No. Microsoft not only listens to customers, but also has a D VISION of where it wants its OS to go, checks out the competition toH traty to match/better what they have and then spends the money needed toC implement those ideas with knowledge that the only wait to maintain . market share is to come out with new features.  E Idf ytou want VMS to grow out of its currently restricted niche, then E you need to start to use VISSION and spend money to add features that 4 MAY bring new customers. It is called taking a RISK.  B VMS has not been taking that many risks, only catering to existingD customers and doing the minimum to keep a customer who threathens to leave unless you add feature X.   D Just consider how you, as VMS engineers, got requests for feature X.G Consider that the majority of VMS users have no way to send suggestions E and that someone would probably filter a lot of them before they even F got to you.  So just because you don't hear about a certain suggestion, doesn't mean that many people don't want it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:32:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? , Message-ID: <453EA270.D1A890BE@teksavvy.com>  * Another thought on what Sir Hoff has said.  G If the owner of VMS along with the VMS staff already have the mentality F that the only modifications to VMS are the ones requested by customersD who back their requests with sufficient sums of money, then it means4 that VMS is effectively already in maintenance mode.  B The whole concept of R&D isn't to cater to specific demands from aH customer, it is to have vision and develop new things with the hope thatH they pan out and benefit customers and increase demand for your product.F  Just doing enough changes to maintain a subjet of your customers (theG ones that bring in large wads of cash) isn't R&D and isn't really doing 6 anything to increase the breath of the installed base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:05:55 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> + Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 9 Message-ID: <Odadnfn-ZbWnNaPYnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote: , > Another thought on what Sir Hoff has said. > I > If the owner of VMS along with the VMS staff already have the mentality H > that the only modifications to VMS are the ones requested by customersF > who back their requests with sufficient sums of money, then it means6 > that VMS is effectively already in maintenance mode. > D > The whole concept of R&D isn't to cater to specific demands from aJ > customer, it is to have vision and develop new things with the hope thatJ > they pan out and benefit customers and increase demand for your product.H >  Just doing enough changes to maintain a subjet of your customers (theI > ones that bring in large wads of cash) isn't R&D and isn't really doing 8 > anything to increase the breath of the installed base.  D Are you implying that VMS engineering is sitting on it's collective , thumb and not doing anything?  I doubt that.  I DEC did well for some time because it listened to it's customers.  Don't  0 expect developers to come up with all the ideas.  G But when you get a list of ideas, then you must try to determine which  I ones make the most sense.  Making money, through more sales, is at least  G part of 'making sense'.  That is the objective, making money.  Nothing   wrong with that.  I As for your mention of taking RISK in another post, gotta tell ya, ain't   no more RISC here, only EPIC.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:01:08 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>+ Subject: Re: Alternate file types for RUN ? 7 Message-ID: <453ea93e$0$49196$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Arne Vajhj wrote:7 >> When did you last see a static linked image on VMS ?  > G > Run time libraries such as the C RTL are associated with the image at F > link time. While you may be able to do tricks with logicals to use aC > different file, the association is still static since symbols are B > resolved at link time and the image will just branch to specificH > addresses where the routine is expected to reside within the shareable	 > image.   > D > This is qwuite diffferent from lib$find_image_symbol where nothingF > happens at link time and the finding and resolving of symbols within, > some image file is done truly at run time.  
 No and no.  ; Static linking means that the code of the library is in the  executable EXE.   : Dynamic linking means that the code of the library is in a shareable EXE.  7 Static linking is a concept practically unknown on VMS.   / And there are not that big a difference between - the shareable images being referred to in the 1 executable image and using LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL. , I assume that they both use the undocumented4 SYS$IMGACT and SYS$IMGFIX. Your code are significant) different, but the mechanism to determine   what to load should be the same.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:29:28 -0600 1 From: "john.nebel_vms" <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com> ) Subject: CSWS expect header vulnerability & Message-ID: <453EAFE8.60805@csdco.com>  H Is there a patch for the Apache expect header vulnerability if CSWS 1.3?  I CSWS appears to be vulnerable, however, one has to be using IE and flash  " which unfortunately very many are.  I http://secunia.com/expect_header_cross-site_scripting_vulnerability_test/    Thanks,   
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:44:55 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>- Subject: Re: CSWS expect header vulnerability @ Message-ID: <craigberry-45429F.22445524102006@free.teranews.com>  & In article <453EAFE8.60805@csdco.com>,3  "john.nebel_vms" <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com> wrote:   J > Is there a patch for the Apache expect header vulnerability if CSWS 1.3? > K > CSWS appears to be vulnerable, however, one has to be using IE and flash  $ > which unfortunately very many are. > K > http://secunia.com/expect_header_cross-site_scripting_vulnerability_test/   H Hmm.  I just reproduced it against CSWS 2.1-1, based on Apache 2.0.52.  E It looks like you have to have 2.0.58 or later to avoid this issue.   & Or, or course, use a sensible browser.   --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:53:55 -0500 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> 1 Subject: Re: DCLTABLES.EXE and image file formats 0 Message-ID: <453EC3B3.36DA034D@spam.comcast.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > pardon my curiosity... > $ > DCLTABLES.EXE is an image, right ?   Well, yes and no.   J ANALYZE/IMAGE will exmaine it and report no errors (or it should, anyway).  1 Think of it more as a resident shared data PSECT.   G > I assume that its internal format is different between VAX, Alpha and  > that IA64 thing ?   " Not like a true binary executable.  B > Does this mean that the VERB utility has different code for eachE > architecture to parse the contents, or are the differences in image H > formats only in the first block and the rest is fully identical across > all platforms ?   ' I belive another poster addressed that.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:02:56 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>1 Subject: Re: DCLTABLES.EXE and image file formats 7 Message-ID: <453ec5c8$0$49198$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > pardon my curiosity... > $ > DCLTABLES.EXE is an image, right ? > G > I assume that its internal format is different between VAX, Alpha and  > that IA64 thing ?  > B > Does this mean that the VERB utility has different code for eachE > architecture to parse the contents, or are the differences in image H > formats only in the first block and the rest is fully identical across > all platforms ?   F If I remember correctly then it is a some binary data not instructions= that are encapsulated in a shareable image and loaded into P1 7 space instead of P0 space like normal shareable images.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:29:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: DS10L surgery report , Message-ID: <453E85B7.71001627@teksavvy.com>   "Bart Z. Lederman" wrote: G > other international standards.  And yes, there is a "standard finger" J > which is used to test for compliance in the U.S.A, and around the world.  E That poor guy must have a pretty sore finger if hsi job is to test if ; his finger can be inserted into a fan on varous devices :-)   J > Removing the grill means the unit probably does now fail to meet various* > standards for safety, radio noise, etc.   H I wouldn't have done this if this had not been a hobbyist machine. I didH this because the PCI card (whether graphics or SCSI) was being heated byB the hot air that was coming out of the CPU, and there was cool airH escaping just before it reached the PCI card.  Having cool air leave theO cabinet when just a few cm further down there is hot air escaping is not right.   H Remember that this baby was designed as a hobby by the engineers who didG not have official funding for this project. So it isn't clear to me how - much tweaking and fine tuning was done to it.   G They did alleviate the "grill" restriction for the front fans by adding A a spacer between the fan and the grill, allowing  the fan to make H partial use of the grill hole that are in the middle (otherwise unusableQ because the middle is taken up by the fan motor which is not involved in airflow.   D But the rear fan has a substantial portion of already limiting grillD blocked by the attach points for that handle. Sorry, but that is badF design.  Even with the grill removed, those spot weldded attach pointsG block about 25% of the circumference of the fan's outflow. And the read F fans does not have that spacer, so it cannot make any use of the grill holes in the middle.  F In terms of EMI, even if I open the unit's cover, I can still watch TVB and listen to radio.  I know that the unit woudln't pass EMI testsD because of the holes, but in the end, having a machine that is a fewE degrees cooler and thus have less significant risk of failure is more H important. Remmeber that since Alphas are not produced anymore, you needH to take good care of thos puppies so they can last at least until VMS is ported to a popular platform.   G > My approach to improving air flow on the units I've worked with is to G > add an additional fan that will fit without cutting holes in the case M > (they do exist), and have them boost the airflow in the existing direction.   C On my old MAC, I not only cut the grills out, but also reversed the D fans. I now have them push air into the unit. I have also remove theH cover for the disk drive bay, so a lot of air now flows out through thisG and helps keeep the disk drive cool. In the past, because the fans were F sucking air out of the cabinet, air was seeping in from various placesG without any significant airflow in the crowded disk drive area (most of H the holes were towards the bottom of the cabinet, disks are at the top).D Before that change I had low MTBF for disk drives. Since I have done' this, the drives have lasted for years.     H > I haven't tried this on an Alpha, but there are also fans made for PCsE > that plug into an unused PCI slot that move air out of the cabinet. 4 > I think they would help in a number of situations.    G 1U cabinets have the extra problem of being so thin that you cannot add  "any" fan. You need tiny fans.  H Using a blower fan to push air into the DS10L's CPU area was very smart.H  But they really should have ducted the hot air coming out the other endF to the outside and made sure the hot air side was airtight so that hotE air woudln't leak back into the cabinet. But that might have required G manufacture of very specific heat resistant plastic parts shaped to fit G that area precicely. And finding the air outlet wouldn't have been easy H because the DS10 motherboard (which they couldn't change) has connectorsE fitted where one would want to throw that hot air out. However, above F the connectors there are holes and perhaps the hot air duct could haveB expanded width wise while becoming thinner and be fitted above the& connectors to throw its air out there.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:07:59 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts9 Message-ID: <ZeCdncJCJ5PIyaPYnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:+ >> It's JF, what do you expect, reasonable?  > G > Is the 15,000 number inacurate ? This is what I recall reading in the ' > press about the employeed reductions.   G I believe Mr Deininger is displeased with your use of the word 'kill'.  H I can see his point.  I just took some of the sting out of the reply by ! focusing on the misspelling.  :-)   / > My comments don't change the VMS marketplace.   I There is so much humor in that one sentence.  It's so wide open, I don't  F know where to begin.  Merely questioning the waste of bandwidth is so & weak, compared to other possibilities.  / > Hurd's actions do change the VMS marketplace.  >  > G > You can choose to insult, discredit and threathen to hit me with your H > aluminium baseball bats all you want. But that doesn't change the oddsB > of VMS surviving beyond the end of the line for that IA64 thing.  E I haven't threatened you recently.  It was never over anything about  9 VMS.  Solely over your usage of obsolete terms and names.   I > Consider that Sir Hoff is perhaps one of the best people to help in the J > next port of VMS since he has been intimate with the ports of both AlphaG > and that IA64 thing, and has carnal knowledge of EFI, something Intel > > really wants the industry to adopt for the industry standard3 > architecture that starts with 8 and ends with 86.  > G > In this light, the loss of Sir Hoff at this juncture in time does not L > augur well for the existance of VMS beyond the IA64's imminent retirement.  " Ok, playing devil's advocate here.  G How do you know any of the above?  How do you know that Steve has such  F intimate knowledge of VMS?  Perhaps he's the janitor and enjoys a few F moments in the internet spotlight.  You really don't know.  But still  you come up with these stories.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 11:19:58 -0700 From: twnews@kittles.com, Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cutsB Message-ID: <1161713998.292364.140860@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Dave Froble wrote:- > >> It's JF, what do you expect, reasonable?  > > I > > Is the 15,000 number inacurate ? This is what I recall reading in the ) > > press about the employeed reductions.  > 	 >  <snip>  > K > > Consider that Sir Hoff is perhaps one of the best people to help in the L > > next port of VMS since he has been intimate with the ports of both AlphaI > > and that IA64 thing, and has carnal knowledge of EFI, something Intel @ > > really wants the industry to adopt for the industry standard5 > > architecture that starts with 8 and ends with 86.  > > I > > In this light, the loss of Sir Hoff at this juncture in time does not N > > augur well for the existance of VMS beyond the IA64's imminent retirement. > $ > Ok, playing devil's advocate here. > H > How do you know any of the above?  How do you know that Steve has suchG > intimate knowledge of VMS?  Perhaps he's the janitor and enjoys a few G > moments in the internet spotlight.  You really don't know.  But still ! > you come up with these stories.   E If Hoff is a janitor,then he is a janitor that has read the internals ? manual and is familiar with much of the VMS source code and the F organization of the VMS development team.  :)  I presume that you wereB joking, but I was not sure.  I have spoken with Hoff many times atF DECUS Symposium (a rose by any other name ...) and I could tell by hisB shirt that he was not a janitor (the janitors get nicer shirts andG usually have their names on them :) ).  Also from the conversation I am + pretty sure he worked with VMS development.   D I am not sure these comments were needed, but if this is not clearly@ fact, then I am not sure what you base your last attack on.  TheE departure of several highly visible VMS developers is a big deal.  It B is the first time that I have concern for long term future of VMS.   Thomas Wirt  Operations Manager Kittle's Home Furnishings    >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:10:58 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts9 Message-ID: <FZudnWzdycak4qPYnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@libcom.com>    twnews@kittles.com wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Dave Froble wrote:- >>>> It's JF, what do you expect, reasonable? I >>> Is the 15,000 number inacurate ? This is what I recall reading in the ) >>> press about the employeed reductions. 
 >>  <snip> >>K >>> Consider that Sir Hoff is perhaps one of the best people to help in the L >>> next port of VMS since he has been intimate with the ports of both AlphaI >>> and that IA64 thing, and has carnal knowledge of EFI, something Intel @ >>> really wants the industry to adopt for the industry standard5 >>> architecture that starts with 8 and ends with 86.  >>> I >>> In this light, the loss of Sir Hoff at this juncture in time does not N >>> augur well for the existance of VMS beyond the IA64's imminent retirement.  ! Perhaps you missed the following?   % >> Ok, playing devil's advocate here. % ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    >>I >> How do you know any of the above?  How do you know that Steve has such H >> intimate knowledge of VMS?  Perhaps he's the janitor and enjoys a fewH >> moments in the internet spotlight.  You really don't know.  But still" >> you come up with these stories. > G > If Hoff is a janitor,then he is a janitor that has read the internals A > manual and is familiar with much of the VMS source code and the H > organization of the VMS development team.  :)  I presume that you wereD > joking, but I was not sure.  I have spoken with Hoff many times atH > DECUS Symposium (a rose by any other name ...) and I could tell by hisD > shirt that he was not a janitor (the janitors get nicer shirts andI > usually have their names on them :) ).  Also from the conversation I am - > pretty sure he worked with VMS development.  > F > I am not sure these comments were needed, but if this is not clearlyB > fact, then I am not sure what you base your last attack on.  TheG > departure of several highly visible VMS developers is a big deal.  It D > is the first time that I have concern for long term future of VMS.  I I'm not sure why Steve left.  I'm led to believe that he was part of the  H IA-64 port effort, and with that pretty much done, the participants may D not be needed in the future.  (Guess that would say something about  porting to x86.)  G The above was not an attack on Steve Hoffman.  It was questioning JF's   wild speculations.  E As for the future of VMS, if you have just developed concern, you're   rather late.  H Killing Alpha!  For what?  The itanic, which is sinking rather quickly, I and unlike Alpha, it's manufacture is outside the control of the current  
 owner of VMS.    Broken promises.   No promotion of the product.  A Dismembering what was the best support organization in the world.   D Just how high must the water in the boat be before you consider the  possibility of sinking?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Oct 2006 21:19:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: HP eyes top VMS people for cuts+ Message-ID: <4q7ealFlju0rU1@individual.net>   9 In article <FZudnWzdycak4qPYnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@libcom.com>, * 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > twnews@kittles.com wrote:  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >>> JF Mezei wrote:  >>>> Dave Froble wrote: . >>>>> It's JF, what do you expect, reasonable?J >>>> Is the 15,000 number inacurate ? This is what I recall reading in the* >>>> press about the employeed reductions. >>>  <snip>  >>> L >>>> Consider that Sir Hoff is perhaps one of the best people to help in theM >>>> next port of VMS since he has been intimate with the ports of both Alpha J >>>> and that IA64 thing, and has carnal knowledge of EFI, something IntelA >>>> really wants the industry to adopt for the industry standard 6 >>>> architecture that starts with 8 and ends with 86. >>>>J >>>> In this light, the loss of Sir Hoff at this juncture in time does notO >>>> augur well for the existance of VMS beyond the IA64's imminent retirement.  > # > Perhaps you missed the following?  > & >>> Ok, playing devil's advocate here.' > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  >  >>> J >>> How do you know any of the above?  How do you know that Steve has suchI >>> intimate knowledge of VMS?  Perhaps he's the janitor and enjoys a few I >>> moments in the internet spotlight.  You really don't know.  But still # >>> you come up with these stories.  >>  H >> If Hoff is a janitor,then he is a janitor that has read the internalsB >> manual and is familiar with much of the VMS source code and theI >> organization of the VMS development team.  :)  I presume that you were E >> joking, but I was not sure.  I have spoken with Hoff many times at I >> DECUS Symposium (a rose by any other name ...) and I could tell by his E >> shirt that he was not a janitor (the janitors get nicer shirts and J >> usually have their names on them :) ).  Also from the conversation I am. >> pretty sure he worked with VMS development. >>  G >> I am not sure these comments were needed, but if this is not clearly C >> fact, then I am not sure what you base your last attack on.  The H >> departure of several highly visible VMS developers is a big deal.  ItE >> is the first time that I have concern for long term future of VMS.  > K > I'm not sure why Steve left.  I'm led to believe that he was part of the  J > IA-64 port effort, and with that pretty much done, the participants may F > not be needed in the future.  (Guess that would say something about  > porting to x86.) > I > The above was not an attack on Steve Hoffman.  It was questioning JF's   > wild speculations. > G > As for the future of VMS, if you have just developed concern, you're   > rather late. > J > Killing Alpha!  For what?  The itanic, which is sinking rather quickly, K > and unlike Alpha, it's manufacture is outside the control of the current   > owner of VMS.  >  > Broken promises. >  > No promotion of the product. > C > Dismembering what was the best support organization in the world.  > F > Just how high must the water in the boat be before you consider the  > possibility of sinking?  >   # Maybe people think its a submarine?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 13:46:20 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)# Subject: Re: Item codes in F$GETDVI , Message-ID: <eYOCsaNcgjXC@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  , "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes:7 > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:17:03 -0700, Rob Brooks wrote:  >>6 >> Coming soon (including a backport to V7.3-2 . . . ) >>C >> KIDD Alpha> write sys$output f$getdvi( "fga0", "adapter_ident" )  >> KGPSA-EA (Emulex LP9802)  >>G >> This item code pulls the string from sys$system:config.dat (well, it F >> technically pulls it from memory, whose source is the config file).  " > Wild cards would be nice, .e.g., > * > write sys$output f$getdvi( "fga0", "*" )  @ I have no idea what you think the above should do -- a wild card( for the item code is rather nonsensical.  D If you want wild cards for the device as the input to f$getdvi, use A f$device with a wild card and feed the output to f$getdvi in some  sort of a loop.    --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 22:40:01 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: LAN failover C Message-ID: <1161754801.167324.140140@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   C Does the OVMS74 system receive the ARP who-has broadcast message on C LLB0 if you cleared the ARP cache on o.t.n.16 before pinging OVMS74   after switching the LAN device ?   Volker.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:29:19 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>  Subject: Mylex card < Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20061024172845.02bd1db0@192.168.0.11>  E Does anybody know if the D040461-0-MIC MYLEX card is supported under  ( VMS?  What are the specs on these cards?   Thanks!    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 14:18:33 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: PARSEC: SPAMMERS (not !) 3 Message-ID: <fgo8EIUWLLGn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <qoh%g.13816$TV3.7440@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes:  L > There's a lot of complaing about stealth marketing, but when a vendor sendM > out a marketing blurb a thread like this starts.  What sort of message does  > that send?  E A vendor _should_ take the message that unsolicited bulk email is not C acceptable to a lot of prospective customers and will cause them to  prefer their competitors.   G A vendor _should_ take the message that they should use more acceptable G forms of promotion, such as press releases (to Sue and to OpenVMS.org), A paid advertising, or even a short signature block (see below :-).  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:28:26 -0400 * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> Subject: Re: Request for kitE Message-ID: <paul.anderson-76909A.11282624102006@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   , In article <45348779.EF744342@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   F > It is also on the latest 8.3 distribution, although the 2.5 release < > notes do not mention 8.3 as a valid version to run it on ! >  > For alpha:  6.2 - 7.3-2 - 8.2  > For VAX:    5.5-2 - 6.2 - 7.3   F Since DCPS V2.5 was released before OpenVMS V8.3, its support of V8.3 I was not mentioned in the release notes.  Keen observers will notice that  E the DCPS SPD has been updated to reflect support of V8.3.  DCPS V2.5  G was, of course, tested on internal base levels of OpenVMS V8.3 to make  C sure nothing broke.  In general, DCPS is not affected by operating  H system changes, since the main interface to the OS is the queue manager.  H > I find it fascinating that the DCPS folsk have kept up development on C > VAX to a point where they see the money in even supporting 5.5-2.   I As Rob pointed out, due to the common code base, there is almost no cost  C in continuing to produce VAX versions.  And supporting OpenVMS VAX  G V5.5-2 makes sense since that version is supported if you have a Prior   Version Support contract.   , In article <453532C9.C5737983@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   F > The fact that they put it in the release notes means that they have F > had formal testing (akaL got manager permission to deploy resources F > for a few hours to test DCPS on a 5.5-2 system.  (and they probably E > had to link it on 5.5-2 to ensure it woudl work on those shareable   > images and later ones).   D We have a running OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 system for just that purpose.  G There's no need to link anything there, as our build environment takes  B care of support for old versions.  We do install and run new DCPS = versions on all supported OpenVMS versions with each release.    > Rob Brooks wrote:   ? > > (Not speaking for Paul, who may chime in here a bit later).    $ > For all we know, he might be gone.  D Nope, it's just been a little quiet in here lately WRT printers and D DCPS.  Working on DCPS V2.6 for release after the first of the year.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 12:55:31 -0700 From: sean@obanion.us / Subject: Re: Technology Forum session documents B Message-ID: <1161719731.771950.147260@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  * OK. I did that and they are available now.  @ Through it currently appears that you must go to each session toF download thier notes: no single image to get them all now...just takes a lot of clicks.  E I realize that there is no pleasing everybody, but it would have been G less time consuming to have a single (compressed) file to download than  one session at a time.     Sean   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: 2 > sean@obanion.us wrote on 10/16/2006 03:33:35 PM: > A > > The HP tech forum website, www.hptechnologyforum.com, says to K > > "Check back soon for session presentations. Documents will be available  > > by the second week > > of October." > > H > > Since this is now the third week in October, anybody have any status" > > when these might be available? > > Or have I missed them? > > 4 > This should be sent to information@encompassUS.org >  > >  > > Sean > >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:05:58 GMT + From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= / Subject: Re: Technology Forum session documents 2 Message-ID: <Gmu%g.20808$E02.8542@newsb.telia.net>  + I guess there is no way to get them without  a user/password, right ?  	 Jan-Erik.        sean@obanion.us skrev:, > OK. I did that and they are available now. > B > Through it currently appears that you must go to each session toH > download thier notes: no single image to get them all now...just takes > a lot of clicks. > G > I realize that there is no pleasing everybody, but it would have been I > less time consuming to have a single (compressed) file to download than  > one session at a time. >  >  > Sean >  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: 3 >> sean@obanion.us wrote on 10/16/2006 03:33:35 PM:  >>A >>> The HP tech forum website, www.hptechnologyforum.com, says to K >>> "Check back soon for session presentations. Documents will be available  >>> by the second week >>> of October." >>> H >>> Since this is now the third week in October, anybody have any status" >>> when these might be available? >>> Or have I missed them? >>> 5 >> This should be sent to information@encompassUS.org  >> >>> Sean >>>  >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 13:50:35 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>: Subject: Unisys targets 20 specific execs with advertisingA Message-ID: <1161723035.174733.33170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Article:m http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116165243559401530-BpNz2cj4YySTN5X2T_XI1NSa694_20071024.html?mod=blogs   D Advertising.  Unisys focuses down to this level to get their messageF across.  Niche (even if only by decree and enforcement of the company)C products and services get niche advertising in the most appropriate G places.  I wonder how much it actually cost them to make this effort to A get name and product recognition in some very important places...   D HP does .... well, I guess they're just too busy trying to advertise# and sell other companies' products.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 15:19:38 -0700) From: "WWWebb" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Unisys targets 20 specific execs with advertisingC Message-ID: <1161728378.574863.209750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Rich Jordan wrote:
 > Article:o > http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116165243559401530-BpNz2cj4YySTN5X2T_XI1NSa694_20071024.html?mod=blogs  > F > Advertising.  Unisys focuses down to this level to get their messageH > across.  Niche (even if only by decree and enforcement of the company)E > products and services get niche advertising in the most appropriate I > places.  I wonder how much it actually cost them to make this effort to C > get name and product recognition in some very important places...  > F > HP does .... well, I guess they're just too busy trying to advertise% > and sell other companies' products.   2 Websearch on "Wordperfect, spellcheck and UNISYS".   WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 15:51:46 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>> Subject: Re: Unisys targets 20 specific execs with advertisingC Message-ID: <1161730306.487833.164170@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 WWWebb wrote:  > Rich Jordan wrote: > > Article:q > > http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116165243559401530-BpNz2cj4YySTN5X2T_XI1NSa694_20071024.html?mod=blogs  > > H > > Advertising.  Unisys focuses down to this level to get their messageJ > > across.  Niche (even if only by decree and enforcement of the company)G > > products and services get niche advertising in the most appropriate K > > places.  I wonder how much it actually cost them to make this effort to E > > get name and product recognition in some very important places...  > > H > > HP does .... well, I guess they're just too busy trying to advertise' > > and sell other companies' products.  > 4 > Websearch on "Wordperfect, spellcheck and UNISYS". >  > WWWebb  D And so?  They're advertising, and they're doing it in an interestingD and quite possibly useful fashion.  And if a few, or even one of the? people targetted remember the name, and the next time they hear G "Unisys" they don't think "dead system not windows not interested" then  it was probably worth it.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2006 13:07:33 -0700. From: "Julian Wolfe" <fireflyst@earthlink.net>C Subject: VMS causing access violation when RTERMing to RSTS machine C Message-ID: <1161720453.379442.248150@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Has anyone seen this before?  The following is happening when I try to? connect to my RSTS/E machine via RTERM.  Any help would be much  appreciated.   $ set host/app=rterm 1.42 7 %REM-I-CONNECTION, connection made using RTERM protocol ; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000051700000& 8AA4, PC=0000517000008AA4, PS=0000001B  2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000005 1                         Name   = 000000000000000C 1                                  0000000000010000 1                                  0000517000008AA4 1                                  0000517000008AA4 1                                  000000000000001B        Register dump:9     R0  = 0000000000000003  R1  = 0000000000008F50  R2  =  00000000000081349     R3  = 0000000000034804  R4  = 000000007FFCF814  R5  =  0000000000009AEF9     R6  = 0000000000000000  R7  = 0000000000000001  R8  =  000000000003481B9     R9  = 000000007FF9DDF0  R10 = 000000007FFA4F28  R11 =  000000007FFCDC189     R12 = 000000007FFCDA98  R13 = 0000000000005170  R14 =  0000000000008E289     R15 = 0000000000008E28  R16 = 0000000002A83089  R17 =  00000000002000009     R18 = FFFFFFFF80901320  R19 = FFFFFFFF820A6990  R20 =  00000000000000029     R21 = 0000000000000000  R22 = 000000007AE57A54  R23 =  FFFFFFFF8017B3B09     R24 = 0000000000000001  R25 = 0000000000000003  R26 =  FFFFFFFF8017B3EC9     R27 = 000000007AE57A54  R28 = 0000000000000006  R29 =  000000007AE57A609     SP  = 000000007AE57A30  PC  = 0000517000008AA4  PS  =  300000000000001B $ set host/rterm 1.700E %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement   \RTERM\ $ set host/app=rterm 1.7007 %REM-I-CONNECTION, connection made using RTERM protocol   =  Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V8.3    Username:  Exit  Error reading command input  End of file detected, %REM-S-END, control returned to node ATUIN:: $    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.586 ************************