1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 478       Contents: Re: Back at work Blue Ray Discs Re: Blue Ray Discs Re: Blue Ray Discs Re: Blue Ray Discs Re: Blue Ray Discs Re: Blue Ray Discs? Boot failure after AUTOGEN in OpenVMS 8.3 Alpha (Fresh Install) ( Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit FormatsA Re: openvms - java - timezone - daylight savings - what the heck! - Re: OpenVMS Integrity Graphics card questions $ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn$ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn$ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 RE: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 RE: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 RE: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC Re: VMS in The DA  Re: VMS in The DA . Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better !. Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better !. Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better !. Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better !. Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better !. Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better !  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:44:28 -0400 + From: Steve Matzura <number6@speakeasy.net>  Subject: Re: Back at work 8 Message-ID: <0fief2pe0m86c0ud7kjaf9vqhbr0tq1d4n@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:57:54 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: C >If you still need a cane to walk, you do realise that you can make H >effective use of the cane to "motivate" people to do what you want them >to do :-) :-) :-) :-)  F Absolutely!  Find the back of a chair to lean on for a moment, and use2 the cane as a pointer.  Follks'll get the message!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:01:49 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Blue Ray Discs ) Message-ID: <op.te5whbcgtte90l@hyrrokkin>   2 Are these going to be available for OpenVMS Alpha? Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:54:49 -0400 + From: Steve Matzura <number6@speakeasy.net>  Subject: Re: Blue Ray Discs 8 Message-ID: <spief2pr3sruinahu5vd2gk62gd8p8rkhp@4ax.com>  0 On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:01:49 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote:  3 >Are these going to be available for OpenVMS Alpha?   F I haven't even seen any in the consumer stores yet, although I do know8 they do exist because I've seen companies' ads for them.  C BTW, it's Blu-ray (http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_name).  Don't  let a mispelling fool ya!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:52:44 GMT  From: hoffman@hp.nospam () Subject: Re: Blue Ray Discs , Message-ID: <w_HJg.46$sp.4@news.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <op.te5whbcgtte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes:5 |> Are these going to be available for OpenVMS Alpha?     H   I'd tend to expect to see either BD (Blu-ray Disk) or HD DVD appearingI in the product line (and HP is pursuing both media formats), but I don't  H specifically know when or if, nor of any commitments for OpenVMS nor for the associated hardware.   G   If you have a requirement for BD or HD (or both), I can pass it along  to the right folks.   C   At least one of the available open source packages reportedly has @ support for BD and HD, should you have a drive available to you.  E   OpenVMS itself does not have support for BD nor HD, nor have I seen % a drive arrive for any local testing.   J   BD drives are starting around US$1000, and blank BD SL disks.  I haven'tG seen BD-R or BD-RE SL media available on a retail shelf, but I'd expect G to pay somewhere around US$20 to US$25 from an on-line provider.  If it E is available.  And the Sony BD drive itself seems to be on pre-order   status right now.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:31:22 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: Blue Ray Discs ) Message-ID: <op.te53eksxtte90l@hyrrokkin>   > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:52:44 -0700, <hoffman@hp.nospam> wrote:  ; > In article <op.te5whbcgtte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden"  =   ! > <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes: 7 > |> Are these going to be available for OpenVMS Alpha?  > =03  > I >   I'd tend to expect to see either BD (Blu-ray Disk) or HD DVD appeari=  ngI > in the product line (and HP is pursuing both media formats), but I don=  'tI > specifically know when or if, nor of any commitments for OpenVMS nor f=  or > the associated hardware. =03 > I >   If you have a requirement for BD or HD (or both), I can pass it alon=  g  > to the right folks.  > E >   At least one of the available open source packages reportedly has B > support for BD and HD, should you have a drive available to you. > G >   OpenVMS itself does not have support for BD nor HD, nor have I seen ' > a drive arrive for any local testing.  > G >   BD drives are starting around US$1000, and blank BD SL disks.  I  =   	 > haven't I > seen BD-R or BD-RE SL media available on a retail shelf, but I'd expec=  t I > to pay somewhere around US$20 to US$25 from an on-line provider.  If i=  t F > is available.  And the Sony BD drive itself seems to be on pre-order > status right now.  >  > I I brought it up because i happened to see a News story about TDK new 200=  G I disks.  I don't have a specific req't but it would be nice to get rid of=    =    tapes  for backup.   F http://www.eet.com/news/design/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=3D192500760       -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:13:52 GMT  From: hoffman@hp.nospam () Subject: Re: Blue Ray Discs - Message-ID: <AaJJg.50$IA.15@news.cpqcorp.net>   V In article <op.te53eksxtte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes:  H |> I brought it up because i happened to see a News story about TDK new G |> 200 G disks.  I don't have a specific req't but it would be nice to   |> get rid of tapes for backup.   C   200 GB is pretty small for a disk, these days.  Top end is 750 GB C for a single spindle disk in production, when last I looked around. C I'm running a stack of 400 GB drives for one project, for 2.4 TB of  storage.  A   As for your archival approach, do realize that tapes are often  B faster than most other media (including disks), and the tape mediaA is obviously re-usable.  One of the Ultrium drives is rated at a  ? sustained compressed data transfer rate of 576 GB per hour, and A 800 GB compressed.  That's likely faster than the spiral transfer ? rate of a number of the disks in service right now.  (With that ? speed and that capacity, I'd be tempted to purchase a couple of @ 200 GB drives, and to use a physical data transfer -- and one ofB the spare drives as scratch space, if I needed to restore a file.)  E   With BD-R/RE SL, you'd be requiring up to 8 blanks to back up that  C 200GB drive, which is US$200 in media, give or take, plus the time  C needed to swap the blanks.  BD-R/RE DL, when/if that appears, would C mean four disks (50GB per, up from 25 for the SL variant).  One DLT E will hold this disk, with room to spare.  And DLT re-use ratings are  B higher than most anything I've seen.  One million head passes and 4 thirty years is not an unusual media rating for DLT.  C   On Alpha systems, the IDE/ATAPI buses are not ultra-speed (and in B various cases they're PIO), so you'll be waiting a while for that ; eight-part 25 GB (or four-part 50 GB) transfer to complete.                  ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:31:35 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Blue Ray Discs < Message-ID: <44f761d5$0$24201$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  6 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote in message # news:op.te5whbcgtte90l@hyrrokkin... 4 > Are these going to be available for OpenVMS Alpha? > Tom   L I hope not. One of my colleagues has done quite a bit of research on BluRay K vs. HD-DVD and BluRay might be a big mistake and a big waste of time (just  L like BetaMax was). The biggest problem relates to data being written on the D external surface of the disk making it vulnerable to destruction by L scratching. (their solution to fixing this problem is the reintroduction of  the caddy. Yuk)   ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc   # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2006 15:20:39 -0700A From: "luke.shipway@googlemail.com" <luke.shipway@googlemail.com> H Subject: Boot failure after AUTOGEN in OpenVMS 8.3 Alpha (Fresh Install)A Message-ID: <1157062838.974835.6170@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Turing part of our testing with OpenVMS 8.3, we installed a clean copy of the Operating System.= After adding a couple of entries to MODPARAMS.DAT (see below) / the OS will not boot, with an error message of:   F EXECINIT-F-NOMEM, insufficient physical memory for minimum working set  A The AUTOGEN.COM seems to have an error as it refers to the symbol 3 WSMAX_MAX which causes an unknown symbol DCL error, " which I assume should be WSMAX_MX.  F The contents of MODPARAMS.DAT have not changed since OpenVMS 8.3.  Any ideas?  D The host is a DS10 with 1GB RAM and the MODPARAMS entries are below:   MIN_PQL_DFILLM = 200
 RJOBLIM=64 MIN_PQL_MASTLM=250 MIN_PQL_MBYTLM=750000  MIN_PQL_MENQLM=2000  MIN_PQL_MFILLM=250 MIN_CHANNELCNT=2048  MIN_PROCSECTCNT=40 ADD_GBLPAGES=1308357 MIN_WSMAX=12437  ADD_NPAGEDYN=17616 ADD_PAGEDYN=231264 ADD_GBLPAGES=1000000 MIN_MAXPROCESSCNT=32000  MIN_GBLSECTIONS=2000   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:55:03 GMT 3 From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison_NOSPAM@hp.com> 1 Subject: Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats - Message-ID: <bgGJg.42$fx.15@news.cpqcorp.net>    JF Mezei wrote: # > "george.pagliarulo@hp.com" wrote:  > B >>versions of OpenVMS are  being standardized and will now ship asF >>self-extracting ZIPEXE packages.   When run, the ZIPEXE package will2 >>expand into the PCSI$COMPRESSED installable kit. >  ... G > If you're going to be zipping the package for transport, why generate  > PCSI$COMPRESSED packages ? ...   > The primary reason why all kits are now starting to appear as G PCSI$COMPRESSED files is because of the new Secure Delivery process in  @ V8.3.  When kits are digitally signed so that they can be later I validated, the process automatically creates as output a PCSI$COMPRESSED  E kit with the associated manifest, rather than a full PCSI kit.  This  H makes packaging (CD/DVD) and transport of the files easier and smaller, E as an added bonus to the security provided by the digital signature.  F Because we needed to process all the kits for Secure Delivery anyway, ? there was no good reason NOT to compress them at the same time.    Wayne Morrison, CISSP & OpenVMS Security/eBusiness Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:40:50 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> J Subject: Re: openvms - java - timezone - daylight savings - what the heck!< Message-ID: <44f77210$0$24198$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  5 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message  6 news:44ec1323$0$24194$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com... >  [...snip...] > F > It seems that the only difference between us is the OS (I'm running J > OpenVMS-7.3-2 while you are running OpenVMS-8.2). Can someone out there 1 > running OpenVMS-8.2 try Troy's JAVA experiment?  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html > I Previously, I suggested that Troy's problem might be related to the fact  J that he was running OpenVMS 8.2. This is wrong because I just upgraded an J AS-2100 from 7.3-2 to 8.2 (with OpenVMS consolidated update 300) and Java 4 1.4.2. works properly with the provided Date() demo.       ###    KAWC98::Neil> JAVA -VERSION  java version "1.4.2"0 Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard EditionD Classic VM (build 1.4.2-4.p2, 05/09/2005-10:05, native threads, jit)   KAWC98::Neil> java "Neil"  Thu Aug 31 19:15:15 EDT 2006  . KAWC98::Neil> @sys$MANAGER:utc$time_setup show AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to "1".? OpenVMS will automatically change to/from Daylight Saving Time. - (in time zones that use Daylight Saving Time) < LOCAL TIME ZONE          = CANADA / EASTERN -- DAYLIGHT TIME8 LOCAL SYSTEM TIME        = 31-AUG-2006 19:15:41.13 (EDT)  TIME DIFFERENTIAL FACTOR = -4:008 TIME ZONE RULE           = EST5EDT4,M4.1.0/02,M10.5.0/02D Change EST to EDT on the First Sunday of April (2-Apr-2006) at 02:00F Change EDT to EST on the Last Sunday of October (29-Oct-2006) at 02:00  2 KAWC98::Neil> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("VERSION") V8.2       ###   E Troy, have you re-read the Java installation notes and release notes?   O http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/documentation/1.4.2/ovms/docs/release_notes.html H http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/download/ovms/1.4.2/sdk1.4.2_patches.html    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:57:57 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrity Graphics card questions* Message-ID: <44f6eae0@usenet01.boi.hp.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:[ > In article <44f5d697@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes: R >> And you will likely want (should this be for use in an office environment) one P >> of the so-called office-friendly (eg: quiet) rx2600 or rx2620 series systems. > F > Any reason why you choose the rx26x0 over the rx16x0 here? Or is theF > 16x0 in regard to the 26x0 too slow/rare/expensive to be considered?  P    Assuming an entirely different question and an entirely different antecedent J on the word "considered" here, the rx1600 and rx1620 series are 1U server Q systems, and routing the necessary volume of air through a 1U box containing the  P usual bits of a computer inevitably produces turbulence, and the turbulence and O the required air flow makes noise, and the noise makes these boxes best suited    for use in a computer room rack.  O    The rx2600 and rx2620 boxes (2U) can be configured to operate more quietly,  P with different thermals thresholds set in the firmware and with different fans, I and with some redundancy removed -- lower maximum thermals -- the Office  L Friendly kit and the associated installation service provides these quieter  components.   N    The computer room environment has different thermal, power, acoustical and < cooling expectations than the office environment, obviously.  J    So the choice here for which boxes got an OFS optio had to do with the M thermals.  Not with the rarity.  Both the rx1620 and rx2620 series boxes are  P readily available, and -- for those that want yet higher densities -- there are - discussions of blades in the OpenVMS roadmap.    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 2006 20:14:58 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com - Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn , Message-ID: <ed7g02011r3@enews3.newsguy.com>  ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: G > While I, too, am hardly what you would call a Linux supporter, I have G > to wonder how one does not support alternative OS's with a printer. I D > would assume it was PostScript, like most printers today, and thus# > pretty much usable with anything.   J While the Xerox printers can handle printing out the PostScript, there areK certain features that users expect which aren't supported on anything other 
 than Windows.   L To get this somewhat on-topic, how hard is it to insert an additional stringL into PostScript that VMS is sending to a printer?  If I say "PRINT MYSRC.C",J how would you insert a string into the postscript file that is created and sent to the printer?   	Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:39:17 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn 0 Message-ID: <44F79D55.64C60565@spam.comcast.net>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > + > Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: I > > While I, too, am hardly what you would call a Linux supporter, I have I > > to wonder how one does not support alternative OS's with a printer. I F > > would assume it was PostScript, like most printers today, and thus% > > pretty much usable with anything.  > L > While the Xerox printers can handle printing out the PostScript, there areM > certain features that users expect which aren't supported on anything other  > than Windows.  > N > To get this somewhat on-topic, how hard is it to insert an additional stringN > into PostScript that VMS is sending to a printer?  If I say "PRINT MYSRC.C",L > how would you insert a string into the postscript file that is created and > sent to the printer?  F ...do you mean other than defining a form which causes a module or twoE or more to be extracted from a device control library and sent to the  printer?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:28:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn , Message-ID: <44F7A8E1.8E4EABD4@teksavvy.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:P > > into PostScript that VMS is sending to a printer?  If I say "PRINT MYSRC.C",N > > how would you insert a string into the postscript file that is created and > > sent to the printer? > H > ...do you mean other than defining a form which causes a module or twoG > or more to be extracted from a device control library and sent to the 
 > printer?  D Be careful. When you print a text file, DCPS will look into the ANSIF libraries and process the contents of the module as ANSI stuff instead of postscript.  G I'd have to reread the documentation to see if it is possible to insert F postscript code in the stream of ansi-to-postscript code being sent to the printer.  D But inserting normal text and ANSI escape sequences is sure to work.L Even sixel graphics work and are converted to postscript on the fly by DCPS.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:59:54 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)= Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC $ Message-ID: <ed7bja$dsl$2@online.de>  C In article <1157044676.448111.137240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 0 "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:   I > IA64 licensing is finally in line with reality; hope it's not too late.   8 Is there a short summary of commercial prices available?   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:55:05 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)= Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC $ Message-ID: <ed7ba9$dsl$1@online.de>  5 In article <44F5E8A7.1F21E307@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:     > Bill Todd wrote:K > > SCSI, if you'll remember, stood for "*small* computer system interface" G > > - and didn't even become an ANSI standard until 1986.  The standard L > > remained 8 bits X 5 MHz and 8 devices (including initiator) until SCSI-2K > > came along in 1994 (doubling all three, which still seems a bit limited ' > > for large VMS systems of that era).  > ) > My 1991 workstation (3100) has SCSI-2.    4 Are you sure?  Does it also have the 3100-only plug?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2006 14:00:18 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC C Message-ID: <1157058018.923175.160040@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: E > In article <1157044676.448111.137240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 1 > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > K > > IA64 licensing is finally in line with reality; hope it's not too late.  > : > Is there a short summary of commercial prices available?  @ I haven't found a short summary for IA64 software at HP, but the configurator works:   @ <http://h30099.www3.hp.com/configurator/catalog-hpintegrity.asp>  F And the newer OpenVMS SPD tells about Integrity licensing. That's on a5 PDF screen that doesn't want to come up for me today.   4 <http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/XAV12X/XAV12XPF.PDF>  F IIRC, OVMS for I64 switches to Per-Processor and Operating EnvironmentC licensing. The Foundation Operating Environment license (FOE -- not G your friend?;-) includes license for unlimited users (user licenses not B required) and many other products that previously cost additional.E Clustering can be added additionally (can't find the cost), but it is ? included with the Mission Critical Operating Environment (MCOE)  license.  G Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just order the VMS system you want as 1 easily as you can order a Windows or *nix system?     -Doug    ********** 7  "Dream on, Dream on, Dream yourself a dream come true"        - Aerosmith    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:25:57 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> = Subject: RE: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684019BC6DC@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]=20  > Sent: August 31, 2006 5:00 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  >=201 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: G > > In article <1157044676.448111.137240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 3 > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > > B > > > IA64 licensing is finally in line with reality; hope it's=20 > not too late.  > > < > > Is there a short summary of commercial prices available? >=20B > I haven't found a short summary for IA64 software at HP, but the > configurator works:  >=20B > <http://h30099.www3.hp.com/configurator/catalog-hpintegrity.asp> >=20H > And the newer OpenVMS SPD tells about Integrity licensing. That's on a7 > PDF screen that doesn't want to come up for me today.  >=206 > <http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/XAV12X/XAV12XPF.PDF> >=20H > IIRC, OVMS for I64 switches to Per-Processor and Operating EnvironmentE > licensing. The Foundation Operating Environment license (FOE -- not ? > your friend?;-) includes license for unlimited users (user=20  > licenses notD > required) and many other products that previously cost additional.G > Clustering can be added additionally (can't find the cost), but it is A > included with the Mission Critical Operating Environment (MCOE) 
 > license. >=20@ > Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just order the VMS system=20
 > you want as 3 > easily as you can order a Windows or *nix system?  >=20 >  -Doug >=20    F Which one of the 10+ different types of Windows Server options are you talking about for comparison? . http://www.microsoft.com/servers/overview.mspx   :-) :-)      Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2006 15:04:11 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC C Message-ID: <1157061851.019833.212130@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----6 > > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]! > > Sent: August 31, 2006 5:00 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  > > 3 > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: I > > > In article <1157044676.448111.137240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 5 > > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > > > A > > > > IA64 licensing is finally in line with reality; hope it's  > > not too late.  > > > > > > > Is there a short summary of commercial prices available? > > D > > I haven't found a short summary for IA64 software at HP, but the > > configurator works:  > > D > > <http://h30099.www3.hp.com/configurator/catalog-hpintegrity.asp> > > J > > And the newer OpenVMS SPD tells about Integrity licensing. That's on a9 > > PDF screen that doesn't want to come up for me today.  > > 8 > > <http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/XAV12X/XAV12XPF.PDF> > > J > > IIRC, OVMS for I64 switches to Per-Processor and Operating EnvironmentG > > licensing. The Foundation Operating Environment license (FOE -- not > > > your friend?;-) includes license for unlimited users (user > > licenses notF > > required) and many other products that previously cost additional.I > > Clustering can be added additionally (can't find the cost), but it is C > > included with the Mission Critical Operating Environment (MCOE)  > > license. > > ? > > Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just order the VMS system  > > you want as 5 > > easily as you can order a Windows or *nix system?  > > 
 > >  -Doug > >  >  > H > Which one of the 10+ different types of Windows Server options are you > talking about for comparison? 0 > http://www.microsoft.com/servers/overview.mspx > 	 > :-) :-)  >   G The one I need (if I were to need one;-) which I can order on-line from G various sources and easily find prices for any configuration and option   --- in most cases.    Real life story:  F A customer just this year replaced his AS1000 NT4 server (the last oneG in my support area) because: 1. Repair parts were getting hard to find. E 2. No new software was available. 3. He needed to do some new things. A 4. Adding these applications to his OpenVMS Alpha system would be G extremely expensive because of the lack of packaged/supported software.   E Win2003 server was the best option because all of the software he was D then using was available for a reasonable upgrade charge, and all ofB the new software he needed was available for a reasonable purchase price.  G Being a loyal DEC-Compaq-HP customer from way-back, he went to HP's web A site and tried to option out a Win2k3 server. After an hour or so @ struggling (and calling me at least twice) and never getting the? screens to process correctly, he went over to the Dell site and D configured two servers in about 10 minutes. The site gave him a niceD comparison and after talking to me for a few minutes (and sending meF the links) he ordered one. It arrived within a week and I installed itD the next. Other than a few issues getting it to play nicely with his8 Alpha running OpenVMS Advanced Server, it came right up.  E Been running fine, doing its job, and haven't rebooted it for months.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:44:09 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> = Subject: RE: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684019BC721@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]=20  > Sent: August 31, 2006 6:04 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote:  > > > -----Original Message-----8 > > > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]# > > > Sent: August 31, 2006 5:00 PM  > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C > > > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  > > > 5 > > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > > > > In article=20 : > <1157044676.448111.137240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,7 > > > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > > > > C > > > > > IA64 licensing is finally in line with reality; hope it's  > > > not too late.  > > > > @ > > > > Is there a short summary of commercial prices available? > > > F > > > I haven't found a short summary for IA64 software at HP, but the > > > configurator works:  > > > F > > > <http://h30099.www3.hp.com/configurator/catalog-hpintegrity.asp> > > > 8 > > > And the newer OpenVMS SPD tells about Integrity=20 > licensing. That's on a; > > > PDF screen that doesn't want to come up for me today.  > > > : > > > <http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/XAV12X/XAV12XPF.PDF> > > > 9 > > > IIRC, OVMS for I64 switches to Per-Processor and=20  > Operating Environment @ > > > licensing. The Foundation Operating Environment license=20
 > (FOE -- not @ > > > your friend?;-) includes license for unlimited users (user > > > licenses notH > > > required) and many other products that previously cost additional.= > > > Clustering can be added additionally (can't find the=20  > cost), but it isE > > > included with the Mission Critical Operating Environment (MCOE)  > > > license. > > > A > > > Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just order the VMS system  > > > you want as 7 > > > easily as you can order a Windows or *nix system?  > > >  > > >  -Doug > > >  > >  > > = > > Which one of the 10+ different types of Windows Server=20  > options are you ! > > talking about for comparison? 2 > > http://www.microsoft.com/servers/overview.mspx > >  > > :-) :-)  > >  >=20? > The one I need (if I were to need one;-) which I can order=20  > on-line fromA > various sources and easily find prices for any configuration=20  > and option >  --- in most cases.  >=20 > Real life story: >=20H > A customer just this year replaced his AS1000 NT4 server (the last one> > in my support area) because: 1. Repair parts were getting=20 > hard to find. G > 2. No new software was available. 3. He needed to do some new things. C > 4. Adding these applications to his OpenVMS Alpha system would be B > extremely expensive because of the lack of packaged/supported=20 > software.  >=20G > Win2003 server was the best option because all of the software he was F > then using was available for a reasonable upgrade charge, and all ofD > the new software he needed was available for a reasonable purchase > price. >=20@ > Being a loyal DEC-Compaq-HP customer from way-back, he went=20
 > to HP's web C > site and tried to option out a Win2k3 server. After an hour or so B > struggling (and calling me at least twice) and never getting theA > screens to process correctly, he went over to the Dell site and F > configured two servers in about 10 minutes. The site gave him a niceF > comparison and after talking to me for a few minutes (and sending meH > the links) he ordered one. It arrived within a week and I installed itF > the next. Other than a few issues getting it to play nicely with his: > Alpha running OpenVMS Advanced Server, it came right up. >=20G > Been running fine, doing its job, and haven't rebooted it for months.  >=20    F Having stated that, then this Cust has obviously not installed many ofH the 5-20 *security* patches that come out every month for Windows/Linux.  H That's certainly a big risk - perhaps the app or their data integrity or privacy is not very important?     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2006 17:22:03 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC B Message-ID: <1157070123.395749.134480@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----6 > > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]! > > Sent: August 31, 2006 6:04 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  > >  > > Main, Kerry wrote:" > > > > -----Original Message-----: > > > > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]% > > > > Sent: August 31, 2006 5:00 PM ! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E > > > > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  > > > > 7 > > > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > > > > > In article< > > <1157044676.448111.137240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,9 > > > > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: 	 > > > > > E > > > > > > IA64 licensing is finally in line with reality; hope it's  > > > > not too late. 	 > > > > > B > > > > > Is there a short summary of commercial prices available? > > > > H > > > > I haven't found a short summary for IA64 software at HP, but the > > > > configurator works:  > > > > H > > > > <http://h30099.www3.hp.com/configurator/catalog-hpintegrity.asp> > > > > 7 > > > > And the newer OpenVMS SPD tells about Integrity  > > licensing. That's on a= > > > > PDF screen that doesn't want to come up for me today.  > > > > < > > > > <http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/XAV12X/XAV12XPF.PDF> > > > > 8 > > > > IIRC, OVMS for I64 switches to Per-Processor and > > Operating Environment ? > > > > licensing. The Foundation Operating Environment license  > > (FOE -- not B > > > > your friend?;-) includes license for unlimited users (user > > > > licenses notJ > > > > required) and many other products that previously cost additional.< > > > > Clustering can be added additionally (can't find the > > cost), but it isG > > > > included with the Mission Critical Operating Environment (MCOE)  > > > > license. > > > > C > > > > Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just order the VMS system  > > > > you want as 9 > > > > easily as you can order a Windows or *nix system?  > > > >  > > > >  -Doug > > > >  > > >  > > > < > > > Which one of the 10+ different types of Windows Server > > options are you # > > > talking about for comparison? 4 > > > http://www.microsoft.com/servers/overview.mspx > > > 
 > > > :-) :-)  > > >  > > > > > The one I need (if I were to need one;-) which I can order > > on-line from@ > > various sources and easily find prices for any configuration > > and option > >  --- in most cases.  > >  > > Real life story: > > J > > A customer just this year replaced his AS1000 NT4 server (the last one= > > in my support area) because: 1. Repair parts were getting  > > hard to find. I > > 2. No new software was available. 3. He needed to do some new things. E > > 4. Adding these applications to his OpenVMS Alpha system would be A > > extremely expensive because of the lack of packaged/supported 
 > > software.  > > I > > Win2003 server was the best option because all of the software he was H > > then using was available for a reasonable upgrade charge, and all ofF > > the new software he needed was available for a reasonable purchase
 > > price. > > ? > > Being a loyal DEC-Compaq-HP customer from way-back, he went  > > to HP's web E > > site and tried to option out a Win2k3 server. After an hour or so D > > struggling (and calling me at least twice) and never getting theC > > screens to process correctly, he went over to the Dell site and H > > configured two servers in about 10 minutes. The site gave him a niceH > > comparison and after talking to me for a few minutes (and sending meJ > > the links) he ordered one. It arrived within a week and I installed itH > > the next. Other than a few issues getting it to play nicely with his< > > Alpha running OpenVMS Advanced Server, it came right up. > > I > > Been running fine, doing its job, and haven't rebooted it for months.  > >  >  > H > Having stated that, then this Cust has obviously not installed many ofJ > the 5-20 *security* patches that come out every month for Windows/Linux. >   G You apparently haven't actually looked at the "5-20 *security* patches" ; that come out every month for Windows. Most are for desktop G applications, and most of the ones that do apply to server are specific % to certain applications or functions.   F It is not advisable to use a server as a workstation and people who do$ so place themselves at greater risk.  F A firewall/AV protected server that has stable usage will contiinue toA be secure until that environment changes. There have been patches C applied that did not require a reboot, and the  firewall and AV are  kept up-to-date.  G I review the patches as they are released, and will apply the ones that G I feel might be worthwhile. If one requires a reboot, then that will be G scheduled. Server updates are different than desktop updates and should < not automatically cause a reboot like the desktops often do.  F I also review the 5-20 OpenVMS patches that come out monthly and apply those as needed.  G I'd imagine my procedures are not too different from others who work in  a similar environment.  J > That's certainly a big risk - perhaps the app or their data integrity or  > privacy is not very important? >   9 Or, maybe we understand our system better than you think.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:11:00 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> = Subject: RE: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684019BC736@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net]=20  > Sent: August 31, 2006 8:22 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC  >=20  
 [snip ...]  A > > > Being a loyal DEC-Compaq-HP customer from way-back, he went  > > > to HP's web G > > > site and tried to option out a Win2k3 server. After an hour or so F > > > struggling (and calling me at least twice) and never getting theE > > > screens to process correctly, he went over to the Dell site and B > > > configured two servers in about 10 minutes. The site gave=20 > him a niceB > > > comparison and after talking to me for a few minutes (and=20 > sending meB > > > the links) he ordered one. It arrived within a week and I=20 > installed it= > > > the next. Other than a few issues getting it to play=20  > nicely with his > > > > Alpha running OpenVMS Advanced Server, it came right up. > > > B > > > Been running fine, doing its job, and haven't rebooted it=20
 > for months.  > > >  > >  > > ; > > Having stated that, then this Cust has obviously not=20  > installed many of @ > > the 5-20 *security* patches that come out every month for=20 > Windows/Linux. > >  >=208 > You apparently haven't actually looked at the "5-20=20 > *security* patches" = > that come out every month for Windows. Most are for desktop ? > applications, and most of the ones that do apply to server=20  > are specific' > to certain applications or functions.  >=20   Like IE?=20   E Ever try removing IE from any Windows system - workstation or server?   ( It's a great exercise - try it sometime.   :-)   H > It is not advisable to use a server as a workstation and people who do& > so place themselves at greater risk. >=20H > A firewall/AV protected server that has stable usage will contiinue toC > be secure until that environment changes. There have been patches E > applied that did not require a reboot, and the  firewall and AV are  > kept up-to-date. >=20  D Remember that 60% of most security issues are from internal sources.  B > I review the patches as they are released, and will apply the=20 > ones that ? > I feel might be worthwhile. If one requires a reboot, then=20  > that will beA > scheduled. Server updates are different than desktop updates=20  > and should> > not automatically cause a reboot like the desktops often do. >=20H > I also review the 5-20 OpenVMS patches that come out monthly and apply > those as needed. >=20  H The 5-20 patches per month I am referring to are *security* patches, not
 bug fixes.=20   G Exponential difference in terms of whether one applies them or not. Bug C patches can be put off. Most SysAdmins will not risk not applying a G security patch as long as it even remotely seems like it might apply to B them.  And keep in mind that most companies today want standard OS@ images, so that means even more testing is required as the App's$ potentially impacted is even larger.  @ > I'd imagine my procedures are not too different from others=20
 > who work in  > a similar environment. >=20  A It sounds like you have a small environment and you maintain your G systems as you feel it necessitates. That is fine and certainly nothing  wrong with that.=20   F Question - Do you QA/test your important applications before releasing> patches into production or do you simply hope they will be ok?  B > > That's certainly a big risk - perhaps the app or their data=20 > integrity or" > > privacy is not very important? > >=20 >=20; > Or, maybe we understand our system better than you think.  >=20  F No, I don't think so. You seem to have a small environment which meansB manually patching and testing patches with your applications has a/ minimal impact on you. Nothing wrong with that.   B However, with larger environments, operation costs associated withD testing security patches with applications are a huge cost at a timeF when BU's are screaming at IT to reduce their costs (or get outsourced is the implication).  D SysAdmin 101 - if you have an important application, then you do notF release any patches (security or bug) without testing that applicationF with the new patches. With 5-20 *security* (not bug) patches per monthD on Windows/Linux, the effort and costs are huge if you have numerousD applications and servers. And wrt to whether they are workstation orG server security issues, keep in mind that the most popular applications D being hacked (like IE) to get full priv's also exist on the servers.   Something to consider: http://tinyurl.com/mhohrG "On August 8, 2006, Microsoft releases its monthly security bulletins." E http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/update/bulletins/200608.mspx   (Aug Windows Security bulletins)  ? Does anyone besides me not see an issue with "monthly" security 
 bulletins?=20    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. =20    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2006 10:35:04 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: VMS in The DAA Message-ID: <1157045703.836837.76540@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Tom Linden wrote: L > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:28:56 -0700, Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: >  > >  > >  > >> -----Original Message----- 3 > >> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply - > >> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] " > >> Sent: August 28, 2006 8:17 AM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: VMS in The DA  > >>F > >> In article <4l5sltFdn9oU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill > >> Gunshannon) writes: > >>A > >> > Surprise, surprise.  I have actually seen a job posting by > > >> > The Department of the Army looking for someone with VMSA > >> > experience (among many other requirements).  Of course, it B > >> > is in the one last field that hasn't totally abandoned VMS, > >> > Healthcare. > >>E > >> One last field?  Mobile-phone backend systems?  Stock exchanges? 6 > >> Self-written applications at large shops (ca. 100 > >> top-of-the-line ALPHA/ > >> machines)?  Intel processor assembly line?  > >> > > J > > Including many other big name chip manufacturing companies (and I mean > > big)...  > C > And guess which language their major applications are written in?  >  > >  > > :-)  > >    Hmmm. Albanian? :-P    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2006 02:45:56 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS in The DA+ Message-ID: <4lpl74F33k97U1@individual.net>   T In article <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684019BC4D3@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >  > H > Including many other big name chip manufacturing companies (and I mean	 > big)...  >  >:-)  F Of course, you can't mention their names or you would have to kill us.H You know, eventually people are going to stop believing in these phantom6 VMS users.  Oh wait, most of the industry already has.   billK (who knows personally of at least one "big name chip manufacturing company" * who used to use VMS but doesn't any more!)   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:52:13 -0400 C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> 7 Subject: Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better ! 9 Message-ID: <32HJg.35590$e9.33978@bignews4.bellsouth.net>   G Our mailserver/webserver (a DS10 that ran for almost 7 years with a few L power-cycles for cleaning) finally bit the bullet and left us from about 6pmK Thursday and left us in the lurch until Monday this week when we decided to 6 go with a non-alpha box with dual p/s and RAID5 + ADG.K Much faster than the Alpha too - even running Win2K (which in my opinion is % the best MSlop product made to date).   K SO, to reiterate, we are not dead, and if your mail got bounced we're sorry ' and wil try not to let it happen again.          --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   A "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> wrote in message * news:44F64569.C46CD99A@spam.comcast.net... > DBT wrote: > >  > > Enough said?!?!  >  > O.k. What did I miss?  >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > ( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page# > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/  > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:59:06 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>7 Subject: Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better ! ) Message-ID: <op.te5y4sg8tte90l@hyrrokkin>   L On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:52:13 -0700, David Turner, Island Computers US Corp   <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote:   I > Our mailserver/webserver (a DS10 that ran for almost 7 years with a few L > power-cycles for cleaning) finally bit the bullet and left us from about   > 6pm L > Thursday and left us in the lurch until Monday this week when we decided   > to8 > go with a non-alpha box with dual p/s and RAID5 + ADG.L > Much faster than the Alpha too - even running Win2K (which in my opinion   > is' > the best MSlop product made to date).  > I > SO, to reiterate, we are not dead, and if your mail got bounced we're    > sorry ) > and wil try not to let it happen again.  > E You could have had several alphas with loadbroker and failover.  BTW, 5 is that why you did not repsond to my mail last week?  Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 04:09:20 +0200 ( From: Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de>7 Subject: Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better ! / Message-ID: <ed84nh$e96$03$1@news.t-online.com>   / David Turner, Island Computers US Corp schrieb: I > Our mailserver/webserver (a DS10 that ran for almost 7 years with a few N > power-cycles for cleaning) finally bit the bullet and left us from about 6pm; > Thursday and left us in the lurch until Monday this week    D hardly a good example for the "zero downtime" message we here oh so 	 often ...    > when we decided to8 > go with a non-alpha box with dual p/s and RAID5 + ADG.M > Much faster than the Alpha too - even running Win2K (which in my opinion is ' > the best MSlop product made to date).   " so why should a buy an alpha box ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:42:18 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>7 Subject: Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better ! 0 Message-ID: <44F79E0A.C8F3C23C@spam.comcast.net>  / "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  > I > Our mailserver/webserver (a DS10 that ran for almost 7 years with a few N > power-cycles for cleaning) finally bit the bullet and left us from about 6pmM > Thursday and left us in the lurch until Monday this week when we decided to 8 > go with a non-alpha box with dual p/s and RAID5 + ADG.   TRAITORS!!!   ! GRAB YOUR TORCH AND PITCHFORK!!!!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2006 19:49:42 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> 7 Subject: Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better ! C Message-ID: <1157078982.614029.133450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Michael Kraemer wrote:1 > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp schrieb: K > > Our mailserver/webserver (a DS10 that ran for almost 7 years with a few P > > power-cycles for cleaning) finally bit the bullet and left us from about 6pm< > > Thursday and left us in the lurch until Monday this week > E > hardly a good example for the "zero downtime" message we here oh so  > often ...   B Nothing ever has zero downtime without redundant parts.  A DS10 byE itself leaves many opportunities for downtime.  The key point was the G "almost 7 years with a few power-cycles for cleaning".  That's a pretty  good record.   >  > > when we decided to: > > go with a non-alpha box with dual p/s and RAID5 + ADG.O > > Much faster than the Alpha too - even running Win2K (which in my opinion is ) > > the best MSlop product made to date).  > $ > so why should a buy an alpha box ?  G Hmmm.  That I'm more inclined to agree with, unfortunately.  Not a good % example to follow IMHO.  Sorry David.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:25:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: We're not dead yet, we're feeling better ! , Message-ID: <44F7A82E.A04CADDC@teksavvy.com>  ! "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: G > itself leaves many opportunities for downtime.  The key point was the I > "almost 7 years with a few power-cycles for cleaning".  That's a pretty  > good record.  F Nothing compared to my all mighty Microvax II which went 18 years withF only the need to replace a power supply once. And it was still working@ fine when I decided to retire it prematurely to make space for a% 4000-600 that was slightly faster :-)    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.478 ************************