1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 08 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 492       Contents:# Re: All is not well at the HP board  Announcing OpenVMS V8.3 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode  Re: Build procedure for WGET Re: Calendar QAR Re: Calendar QAR Re: Calendar QAR Re: Calendar QAR Re: Calendar QAR( Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats( Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats( Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats) Re: CIXCD unable to see disks, I think... ) Re: CIXCD unable to see disks, I think... 3 Re: Confusing behaviour of local and global symbols  Re: Creating a HDLC CRC?4 Re: Determining your terminal's width using f$getdviH Re: Directory File Contention and Optimization, DFU (was: Re: Overkill?)' Re: Encrypted backup questions/concepts ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host ? Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host P Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS ComputP Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS CoP Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS CoP Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS CoP Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS CoP Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Co Lost news articles( MinVMS or CD backup and volume shadowing, Re: MinVMS or CD backup and volume shadowing, Re: MinVMS or CD backup and volume shadowing5 Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude... 5 Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude... 5 Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude... 5 Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude... 5 Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude... 5 Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...  SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) with TCPware . Security issues running images with /TRACEBACK4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC2 RE: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st century? RE: What is PSDC Re: What is PSDC Re: [VMS V7.3-2] ECO date  Re: [VMS V7.3-2] ECO date   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:28:53 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board, Message-ID: <4500FF81.FA8996B8@teksavvy.com>   More info today:  _ http://news.com.com/Reporters+records+hacked+in+HP+probe/2100-1014_3-6113362.html?tag=nefd.lede   F Pat Dunn's private investigators illegally extracted the phone recordsP of some reporters inlcuding 2 from CNET and at least 1 from Wall Street Journal.    / http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5321034.stm E California's attorney general has launched an investigation into this  mess.     ? I hope that as soon as the attorney general determines that the F "pretexting" was illegally used, HP will fire Dunn and hire Perkins asB chairman. A guy willing to resign from a company with questionable) ethics should be viewed as a great asset.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 14:25:30 -0700 ) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com>   Subject: Announcing OpenVMS V8.3C Message-ID: <1157664330.197097.188730@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   4 7 September 2006 -- Announcing OpenVMS version 8.3 !    F I am delighted to announce the general availability of OpenVMS version5 8.3 for HP Integrity servers and AlphaServer systems.   A This new version delivers even greater flexibility and investment = protection along with lower total cost of ownership (TCO) and : additional virtualization capabilities. New clustering and? data-shadowing functions further increase performance levels in D disaster-tolerant environments, and additional security capabilitiesF enhance the OpenVMS reputation for secure, rapid application delivery.  G The mixed architecture clusters of HP Integrity servers and AlphaServer F systems are fully supported, promoting the integration of HP IntegrityG servers into an OpenVMS environment. Furthermore, licensing and service C plans for OpenVMS on HP Integrity servers offer reduced complexity, 6 increased cost-effectiveness, and greater flexibility.E To learn more about HP OpenVMS version 8.3 please visit our Web site.  www.hp.com/go/openvms.  C Thanks again for your continued interest and support of HP OpenVMS.   
 Best regards,  Ann      Ann McQuaid    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:42:13 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode* Message-ID: <450059f7@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Richard Maher wrote:  I > Hope to finish the draft-code this weekend.  Then you can put it on any F > machine you like and drop the last longword and see what happens :-) > ' > Below is a snippet if you can't wait.   N    I would ask that non-privileged system crashers and system security issues  not be posted.  F    I will forward this along to the appropriate folks here in OpenVMS H Engineering, and as I have offered in the past -- various folks here in O engineering are quite willing to accept direct email reports of these sorts of  + (severe) problems, support contract or not.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:07:59 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode* Message-ID: <45006002@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Richard Maher wrote:  I > Hope to finish the draft-code this weekend.  Then you can put it on any F > machine you like and drop the last longword and see what happens :-)  J    It appears to be a privileged system crasher -- the AUDIT privilege is  required for this interface.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:25:56 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode9 Message-ID: <XrudndmbTYyRYJ3YnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Richard Maher wrote: > J >> Hope to finish the draft-code this weekend.  Then you can put it on anyG >> machine you like and drop the last longword and see what happens :-)  > K >   It appears to be a privileged system crasher -- the AUDIT privilege is   > required for this interface. >   H In this case, does it matter?  If I'm being too simplistic, I'll gladly G stand corrected.  But if simply not terminating a list causes a crash,   isn't that still a problem?   G Ok, I can see the question, if there isn't a terminator, how can it be  A known that the list doesn't continue?  While I can think of some  B methods, I'll leave the solution to those who deal with such on a  regular basis.  E I can also understand the position that if the programmer can't code  ) correctly, he deserves what he gets.  :-)   @ Better walk softly here, there are those who have set up a list E incorrectly, and those who have yet to do so.  Only a matter of time.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:49:21 +0930 % From: Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au> % Subject: Re: Build procedure for WGET ) Message-ID: <4500EF49.2030409@vsm.com.au>   
 Hi Steven,   Steven M. Schweda wrote:' > From: Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au>  > J >>This message is for StevenSchweda, whose mail server is blocking mine. N >>(The error message is 'Your IP address or subnet is in my list of bad ones' G >>which seems a little odd as none of my systems are listed in any RBL   >>database that I know of.)  >  > H >    I tend to add whole IP address blocks to my Bad-Clients list when IJ > get junk e-mail from somewhere.  If I knew your server's address, I'd beJ > happy to accomodate it.  (In a pinch, there's also a message form on the > Web server.)  L FYI,  our mailservers are at 150.101.13.1 through 150.101.13.15 (inclusive).  J >>Anyway, today I downloaded WGET 1.10.2b and attempted to build it on my M >>OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 system.  It failed during the LINK command because it  @ >>tried to access MULTINET_SOCKET_LIBRARY, which does not exist. >>[...]  >  > H >    Yes, the explicit Multinet references are old and probably obsoleteI > (VMS V6.x?), and I've suspected this for a while, but I was waiting for G > a complaint from someone who had actual Multinet experience, as I run  > the HP product here. > ? >    I think that an explicit command-line request for Multinet G > specificity would be best nowadays.  I should be able to arrange that  > pretty soon.   I agree, and thanks.   >    Thanks for the complaint.   My pleasure :-)    Regards,   	Jeremy Begg   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 11:37:26 -0700 ' From: "Dick Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>  Subject: Re: Calendar QAR A Message-ID: <1157654246.162979.92720@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    faceman28208@yahoo.com wrote: F > Does any olde Digit have a copy of the Calendar QAR they might post?  8 Use Google to search for Rabinowitz and Council of Trent   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 12:37:16 -0700 ' From: "Dick Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>  Subject: Re: Calendar QAR B Message-ID: <1157657836.511162.79250@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   Dick Piccard wrote:  > faceman28208@yahoo.com wrote: H > > Does any olde Digit have a copy of the Calendar QAR they might post? > : > Use Google to search for Rabinowitz and Council of Trent  B On the question of why November 17, 1858, is the base date for VMS time, 3 see http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~rkj/crazytime.txt    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:52:05 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: Calendar QAR * Message-ID: <45005c47@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   faceman28208@yahoo.com wrote: F > Does any olde Digit have a copy of the Calendar QAR they might post?  P    Um, Stan's Year 2000 is a Leap Year SPR?  It's posted at the OpenVMS website.  "    Here's the current direct path:  A    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/year-2000/leap.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 03:27:38 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: Calendar QAR J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-B1B3E2.03273808092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  A In article <1157654246.162979.92720@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, )  "Dick Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> wrote:    > faceman28208@yahoo.com wrote: H > > Does any olde Digit have a copy of the Calendar QAR they might post? > : > Use Google to search for Rabinowitz and Council of Trent  H And for more amusement look at the help in DECwindows Calendar. So that ; you don't miss anything, do drill down into the sub-topics.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:06:23 -0400/ From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Calendar QAR I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609071906l4ff5dbbbm214d31df385f1763@mail.gmail.com>   ; On 9/7/06, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote: C > In article <1157654246.162979.92720@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, + >  "Dick Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> wrote:  > ! > > faceman28208@yahoo.com wrote: J > > > Does any olde Digit have a copy of the Calendar QAR they might post? > > < > > Use Google to search for Rabinowitz and Council of Trent > I > And for more amusement look at the help in DECwindows Calendar. So that = > you don't miss anything, do drill down into the sub-topics.  >  > -- > Paul Sture >   A And while we're on the subject Rabinowitz, didn't he also write a ? piece entitled something like "A day in the life of the process  scheduler"?    WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:32:18 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 1 Subject: Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats 9 Message-ID: <sfGdnVZw8uSKAZ3YnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@libcom.com>    george.pagliarulo@hp.com wrote: A > Correct.  We will never ship VAX PCSI patch kits.  Sorry Peter.  >  > George Pagliarulo  > ECO Release Process   > OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering > Hewlett-Packard Company  >   > Ah, some good news.  VAX is to be saved from the PCSI madness.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 20:44:57 -0400 - From: bradhamilton <bradhamilton@comcast.net> 1 Subject: Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats * Message-ID: <4500BD09.1060905@comcast.net>   Dave Froble wrote:! > george.pagliarulo@hp.com wrote: B >> Correct.  We will never ship VAX PCSI patch kits.  Sorry Peter. >> >> George Pagliarulo >> ECO Release Process! >> OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering  >> Hewlett-Packard Company >> > @ > Ah, some good news.  VAX is to be saved from the PCSI madness.  H Seeing as how VAX is no longer manufactured, a Pyrrhic victory, eh what?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:28:19 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 1 Subject: Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats 9 Message-ID: <XrudndibTYwEYJ3YnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@libcom.com>    bradhamilton wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:" >> george.pagliarulo@hp.com wrote:C >>> Correct.  We will never ship VAX PCSI patch kits.  Sorry Peter.  >>>  >>> George Pagliarulo  >>> ECO Release Process " >>> OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering >>> Hewlett-Packard Company  >>>  >>A >> Ah, some good news.  VAX is to be saved from the PCSI madness.  > J > Seeing as how VAX is no longer manufactured, a Pyrrhic victory, eh what? >   4 In these dark days we take any small victory we can.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:36:35 -0400 From: "Jilly" <jilly@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: CIXCD unable to see disks, I think..., Message-ID: <450066b4$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  3 "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> wrote in message  = news:1157640190.180375.242360@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... E > VAX 7000-740 VMS 6.2        5 node VAX 7000 CI and Ethernet Cluster  > H > When I do a show config at the console prompt, it shows 3 cixcd cards.G > The machine only has two installed.  A show dev at the console prompt = > shows disks on 1 of the cixcds and none on the other cixcd.  > G > Why are 3 cixcd cards shown, when only two at physically installed in 
 > the VAX?/ > Should't devices be seen by both cixcd cards?   J If the devices are in use by another host on the CI then you can only see J the device from the controller that has it online at the time of the SHOW J DEVICE.  If you want to see the disks from all HSx that could control the * disk then shutdown the entire cluster 1st.  0 As to the multiple CIXCDs shown, I have no idea.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:03:07 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: CIXCD unable to see disks, I think...0 Message-ID: <4500CF5B.59AB1B2C@spam.comcast.net>   syslost wrote: > E > VAX 7000-740 VMS 6.2        5 node VAX 7000 CI and Ethernet Cluster  > H > When I do a show config at the console prompt, it shows 3 cixcd cards.G > The machine only has two installed.  A show dev at the console prompt = > shows disks on 1 of the cixcds and none on the other cixcd.  > G > Why are 3 cixcd cards shown, when only two at physically installed in 
 > the VAX?/ > Should't devices be seen by both cixcd cards?   F Depends on how your CI cables are connected. Dual or split SC008? HSJsE connected to both star couplers? VAX connected to both star couplers?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 14:04:37 -0500 ? From: burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) < Subject: Re: Confusing behaviour of local and global symbols3 Message-ID: <CflImynOmPcX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <44ff2187$0$19260$88260bb3@news.teranews.com>, Hans Blom <hans.y.blom@telia.com> writes:   C > But Ok, let's boil it down to what was in the application script. D > All those "show symbols" were entered by me in an effort to debug. >  > CP_1:  > $  DBA = "1_L_SYMB"  > $  @CP_2 "" -uusername	 > $  exit  >  > CP_2: & > $  DBA == F$edit(P2, "TRIM, UPCASE"). > $  if F$extract(0, 2, DBA) .nes. "-u" then -$ > 			write sys$output "No match????"	 > $  exit  > ' > Still strange? Or am I lost as usual?   E In CP_2 the f$extract() references the local symbol definition of DBA C as defined in CP_1, *not* the global definition in CP_2, that's the < standard behaviour unless you SET SYMBOL/SCOPE to change it.  G It's not clear why you're using the DBA symbol name in both procedures, D if your intention is for both procedures to reference and modify theE same symbol they must both use a global symbol. A local symbol is not & a global symbol in an inner procedure.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:32:15 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>! Subject: Re: Creating a HDLC CRC? * Message-ID: <450057a1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:  D > So, I'm planning on using 0x04204000 to compute the HDLC CRC, and G > leave the rest of the FAQ's program unchanged.  Anyone see a problem   > with that?  E    Run it, and compare it with a reference CRC.  That's what I did...    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 15:58:39 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Determining your terminal's width using f$getdvi 3 Message-ID: <jfLFpouLRCy5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <06090711441849_2027FAC5@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:  > 9 >> How do I determine my terminal's current width in DCL?  > 9 >    I don't know how _you_ do it.  Here's how _I_ do it:  > 5 > alp $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "tt", "devbufsiz")  > 80! > alp $ set terminal /width = 132 5 > alp $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "tt", "devbufsiz")  > 132  >   8    On VMS 7.2-1 on my Alpha both of those return 80 when6    accessed via SSH (puTTY into Multinet), even though)    show terminal shows the correct width.   >    I think this is stored in the UCB somewhere that the TT_xxx@    codes don't look and is not the device buffer size.  (Nor the    record length.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:38:52 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Q Subject: Re: Directory File Contention and Optimization, DFU (was: Re: Overkill?) * Message-ID: <4500592e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   David Gray wrote:   F > Yes I did consider the /FILL option but was concerned about the DFU H > command failing, we have a large number of small  1 block directories.  Q    There's little point and I'd expect little benefit to packing a one-block (or   one-cluster-factor) directory.  O    The insertion at the directory level gets to be a problem when working with  @ larger directories, and particularly with un-ordered insertions.  O    If you want to see if there are directory-level issues, see the LCKQUE tool  I on Freeware V6.0, over in the KP_LOCKTOOLS submission.  If you're seeing  N contention on the directories, then things get interesting.   But the obvious O sorts of system monitoring activities may point in another direction entirely,  / obviously, and not at the directory contention.   N    If you haven't seen it, the (free) T4 tool can be quite useful at tracking E performance.  It's available for download via the HP OpenVMS website.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:29:22 +0300; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> 0 Subject: Re: Encrypted backup questions/concepts9 Message-ID: <45006601$0$19733$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   3 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message = news:1157641101.500983.108110@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... , > Here's my understanding.  On OpenVMS Alpha > : > V7.3-2 - encrypted backup if VMS Encryption is installed >         supported 1 >         requires purchase of an encrypt license ( >         limited to DES-type encryption> >         CDROM boot env. can't create/read encrypted savesets > ; > V8.2 -    encrypted backup if VMS encryption is installed  >         Supported 1 >         No encrypt license, included in OS base ( >         limited to DES-type encryption> >         CDROM boot env. can't create/read encrypted savesets > 2 > V8.3 -    can do encrypted backup out of the box >         Supported 1 >         No Encrypt license, included in OS base * >         DES and newer encryption formats< >         CDROM boot env. CAN create/read encrypted savesets > H > So V8.2 and earlier can use encrypted savesets for data, image backupsE > of non-system disks, or non-image (and hence non-fully-recoverable) H > system disk backups, but only V8.3 has the ability to make clean imageB > backups to (and recover from) an encrypted saveset via the CDROM > environment. > I > And although I know Hoff doesn't like it, we do have the customers make I > regular online image backups of the system disk with /IGNORE=INTERLOCK; H > the systems are quiesced as much as possible (only backup is running).G > Its not possible to take the systems down for the CDROM based backups G > so this is the best available option (no mirrors/shadows/swanky SANs; I > these are single DS10 installations).  If we have to encrypt the system G > disk backup (corporate policy, or privileged data on the system disk, B > etc) then only the V8.3 CDROM environment can restore it on that	 > system.  > G > If upgrade to V8.3 is not possible, but a V8.3 media kit is acquired, F > then we could keep perform the encrypted online backups as required,F > and use the V8.3 CDROM for any standalone functions.  Since the V8.3H > online backup encryptions is supposed to be upward compatible with theG > earlier encrypt layered product, that should work; we would just need C > to be certain of the encryption used in the standalone backups if C > there's a chance they would need to be read by the V8.2 or V7.3-2  > running system.  > H > And finally... if you use the CDROM environment for restores, then youF > can't use a keyfile/keyring for the encryption because it may not beF > available in the read only environment (unless perhaps its kept on aC > floppy, or a reburned OS CD-R which has the relevant files tucked F > somewhere on that disk).  You would need to use a straight 'password > style' key instead.  > E > Does this sound correct?  Thanks.  Still waiting for V8.3 media but & > testing on V8.2 as much as possible. >  >  > Rich >   8 Officially, encrypted BACKUP can't be performed from the; standalone environment....especially when using the new AES  formats with V8.3   C Encryption requires both SSL & Encrypt to be installed, this is not " the case with the distirbution CD.   Guy        --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 19:46:59 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-DFB88D.19465907092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, 2  "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> wrote:   > Rob Brown wrote:2 > > On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote: > >  > > >  > > > Paul Sture wrote:  > > >>
 > > >> Try > > >> > > >> $ show net  > > > ; > > > It did not give the IP address or complete host name!  > >  > > What *did* it tell you?  >  > I > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network G > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I D > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. >   I The privacy bit is understood, but can can you give us the syntax of the   display?  E For example, I've edited the private bits from a couple of different  % systems below to show something else:   
 $ show netD Product:  DECNET        Node:  FOO_1               Address(es):  1.2= Product:  MultiNet      Node:  someaddress.com Address(es):   
 123.456.789.1   H Product:  DECNET        Node:  FOO_2                Address(es):  23.456A Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  another_address.org Address(es):   
 192.168.4.101    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 13:18:23 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.orgH Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host3 Message-ID: <vO1gBO1zDyoF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: >  > Rob Brown wrote:1 >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  >> >> > >> > Paul Sture wrote: >> >> 	 >> >> Try  >> >>  >> >> $ show net >> >: >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name! >> >> What *did* it tell you? >  > I > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network G > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I D > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer.  < This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network that? apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you  use TCP/IP.   C You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. A Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to ' be looking for it under the name "UCX".    $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*   ' When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 11:53:50 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostC Message-ID: <1157655230.805063.265580@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: x > In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: > >  > > Rob Brown wrote:3 > >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  > >> > >> > > >> > Paul Sture wrote: > >> >>  > >> >> Try  > >> >>  > >> >> $ show net > >> >< > >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name! > >> > >> What *did* it tell you? > >  > > K > > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network I > > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I F > > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. > > > This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network thatA > apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you 
 > use TCP/IP.  > E > You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. C > Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to ) > be looking for it under the name "UCX".  >  > $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*   C I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the   files without system privaleges.  
 Chris Lusardi    > ) > When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 11:56:38 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostC Message-ID: <1157655398.535612.283000@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: x > In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: > >  > > Rob Brown wrote:3 > >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  > >> > >> > > >> > Paul Sture wrote: > >> >>  > >> >> Try  > >> >>  > >> >> $ show net > >> >< > >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name! > >> > >> What *did* it tell you? > >  > > K > > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network I > > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I F > > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. > > > This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network thatA > apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you 
 > use TCP/IP.  > E > You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. C > Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to ) > be looking for it under the name "UCX".  >  > $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*   C I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the   files without system privaleges.  ) > When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1   2 I was able to telnet to the same machine I was on.  
 Chris Lusardi    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:47:18 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host0 Message-ID: <1157654816.359746@nntp.acecape.com>   Christopher Lusardi wrote:% > My question is on the subject line.  >  > Thank you, > Christopher Lusardi  > 
 $SHOW NETWORK    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:10:18 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostA Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060907130821.03a07518@raptor.psccos.com>   L This system could be running MultiNet or TCPware as well.  The simplest way N to find out, assuming your IP stack is running, is to do any of the following:  $ Look for the MULTINET_SERVER process" Look for the MULTINET logical name! Look for the TCPWARE logical name 4 Look for a MULTINET or TCPWARE directory on the disk  0 At 12:53 PM 9/7/2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:    >briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:H > > In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, 4 > "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: > > >  > > > Rob Brown wrote:5 > > >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Paul Sture wrote:	 > > >> >> 
 > > >> >> Try 	 > > >> >>  > > >> >> $ show net > > >> >> > > >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name! > > >> > > >> What *did* it tell you? > > >  > > > M > > > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network K > > > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I H > > > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. > > @ > > This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network thatC > > apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you  > > use TCP/IP.  > > G > > You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. E > > Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to + > > be looking for it under the name "UCX".  > >  > > $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*  > D >I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the! >files without system privaleges.  >  >Chris Lusardi >  > > + > > When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 12:16:50 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostC Message-ID: <1157656610.501771.164430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Christopher Lusardi wrote:! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: z > > In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: > > >  > > > Rob Brown wrote:5 > > >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Paul Sture wrote:	 > > >> >> 
 > > >> >> Try 	 > > >> >>  > > >> >> $ show net > > >> >> > > >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name! > > >> > > >> What *did* it tell you? > > >  > > > M > > > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network K > > > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I H > > > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. > > @ > > This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network thatC > > apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you  > > use TCP/IP.  > > G > > You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. E > > Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to + > > be looking for it under the name "UCX".  > >  > > $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*  > E > I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the " > files without system privaleges. > + > > When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1  > 4 > I was able to telnet to the same machine I was on. >  > Chris Lusardi     9 Just type in telnet with no address and see what it says.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:22:27 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host/ Message-ID: <1157656924.26298@nntp.acecape.com>    Christopher Lusardi wrote: > AEF wrote: >> Christopher Lusardi wrote:  >>> Tom Linden wrote: < >>>> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 06:57:59 -0700, Christopher Lusardi  >>>> <clusardi2k@aol.com> wrote: >>>>) >>>>> My question is on the subject line.  >>>>>  >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Christopher Lusardi  >>>>> H >>>> When posting this type of question you should indicate the IP stack >>>> and VMS version. H >> Can you post the output of SHOW SYSTEM? That should give us a clue as >> to which stack you're using.  >> > D >  My system people would complain if I posted it all. It's much too< > long. What specific parts of it would you like me to post. >  > Chris Lusardi  >   - If you do have system people for the machine, 5 they should be most qualified to answer the question.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:25:29 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host0 Message-ID: <1157657106.262650@nntp.acecape.com>   Christopher Lusardi wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: E >> In article <1157640758.433596.234380@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, 5 >>  "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> wrote:  >>2 >>> On another host when I enter those, I am told:C >>>   'tcpip' is not recongized as an internal or external command, % >>>   operable program or batch file.  >>>  >> Try >>
 >> $ show net  > 7 > It did not give the IP address or complete host name!  >  > Chris Lusardi  > / maybe you don't have tcpip or networking setup. # What is the output of show network?   D Find out the ip address of the machine to which you want to connect.+ Get the information from the other machine.   1 Try to telnet to that ip address, try to ping it. > If you get no usefull results, you may not have tcpip running.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 19:29:57 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609071319340.13779@localhost.localdomain>   . On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:   > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > * >> When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1 > 4 > I was able to telnet to the same machine I was on.  E OK.  Do that.  Once you have logged in with your telnet session, type   /    $ write sys$output f$getdvi ("tt:","devnam")    and tell us what you get back.  	 Then type   /    $ SHOW USERS/FULL/INTERACTIVE <yourusername>   F to get a list of all of your interactive sessions (if it doesn't like 7 /FULL, then leave it off).  Now, for each session, type   +    $ SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUOUS <process name>   F to identify the process that is running telnet.  What is the complete & image name (last line of the display)?     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 12:51:32 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostB Message-ID: <1157658692.066980.53110@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:2 > From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> >  > > > $ show net > > 9 > > It did not give the IP address or complete host name!  > 4 >    What _did_ it say, or is that too big a secret? >  > G > > I want to be able to telnet or set host to the machine using the IP & > > address (number) or complete name. > H >    SET HOST uses DECnet.  Telnet uses IP.  The DECnet host name may or$ > may not resemble the IP host name. >  > 6 >    You might provide the output from a command like: >  >       SHOW LOGICAL *TCP*   When I try that, it tells me :      "TCP" = "...$COMMON:"    "TWG$TCP" = "...$COMMON:"  D I put "..." above to keep private stuff. It was 3 characters such as cml.   Christopher Lusardi    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 12:53:03 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostC Message-ID: <1157658783.085315.228280@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    Doug Phillips wrote: > Christopher Lusardi wrote:# > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: | > > > In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: > > > >  > > > > Rob Brown wrote:7 > > > >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  > > > >>
 > > > >> > > > > >> > Paul Sture wrote: > > > >> >>  > > > >> >> Try  > > > >> >>  > > > >> >> $ show net
 > > > >> >@ > > > >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name! > > > >>  > > > >> What *did* it tell you? > > > >  > > > > O > > > > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network M > > > > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I J > > > > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. > > > B > > > This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network thatE > > > apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you  > > > use TCP/IP.  > > > I > > > You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. G > > > Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to - > > > be looking for it under the name "UCX".  > > >  > > > $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*  > > G > > I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the $ > > files without system privaleges. > > - > > > When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1  > > 6 > > I was able to telnet to the same machine I was on. > >  > > Chris Lusardi  >  > ; > Just type in telnet with no address and see what it says.    It says:    %telnet  telnet>   
 Chris Lusardi    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 12:55:41 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostB Message-ID: <1157658941.296113.242190@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Dan O'Reilly wrote: M > This system could be running MultiNet or TCPware as well.  The simplest way P > to find out, assuming your IP stack is running, is to do any of the following: > & > Look for the MULTINET_SERVER process$ > Look for the MULTINET logical name# > Look for the TCPWARE logical name 6 > Look for a MULTINET or TCPWARE directory on the disk  D I want to make sure I do this correctly. "show system" has no proces? named MULTINET_SERVER. How do I look for the rest of the stuff?   
 Chris Lusardi    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 12:57:42 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostC Message-ID: <1157659062.216688.256080@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    sol gongola wrote:/ > If you do have system people for the machine, 7 > they should be most qualified to answer the question.   D I want to figure out how to do it on my own for other systems in the. future so that I can ftp to them from Windows.  
 Chris Lusardi    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 19:42:24 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609071330510.13779@localhost.localdomain>   . On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:   >  > Rob Brown wrote:  ? >> Ask your system people which IP stack and which VMS version.  >>D >> For that matter, ask your system people what your IP address and  >> and complete host name are.   These were serious suggestions.   F >> Look in SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V*.COM for "@<mumble>STARTUP" to see + >> which of them might start a tcpip stack.  > F > I do not see anything useful in these files with SEARCH File String.    What was your command line?  Try  G    $ SEARCH/MATCH=AND/WINDOW=5 SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM "@",STARTUP   
 or maybe just   5    $ SEARCH/WINDOW=5 SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM "@"   > How would you know whether or not anything you saw was useful?  A Besides, in another post, you said you couldn't view these files  G because you didn't have any privileges.  Searching and viewing require   the same privileges.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 15:13:09 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host3 Message-ID: <DEmaId7p0A53@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <1157637479.240010.190300@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes: % > My question is on the subject line.  >  > Thank you, > Christopher Lusardi  >   $    http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 15:16:53 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host3 Message-ID: <yyf8sEK26koQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <paul.sture.nospam-DFB88D.19465907092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:G > For example, I've edited the private bits from a couple of different  ' > systems below to show something else:  >  > $ show netF > Product:  DECNET        Node:  FOO_1               Address(es):  1.2? > Product:  MultiNet      Node:  someaddress.com Address(es):    > 123.456.789.1  > J > Product:  DECNET        Node:  FOO_2                Address(es):  23.456C > Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  another_address.org Address(es):    > 192.168.4.101   E    The version of VMS the OP said he's using doesn't support anything )    but DECnet in its show network output.   D    From what he's said so far I haven't seen anything that indicatesF    there is an IP stack on his system.  I really think we ought to letG    him scan the FAQ before we run him ratty with nifty ideas that don't 	    apply.    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:29:46 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host2 Message-ID: <06090715294613_2027FAC5@antinode.org>  0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>   > >       SHOW LOGICAL *TCP* >   > When I try that, it tells me : >  >    "TCP" = "...$COMMON:" >    "TWG$TCP" = "...$COMMON:" > F > I put "..." above to keep private stuff. It was 3 characters such as > cml.  E    Your system appears to be running some version of a product called ? WIN/TCP (older) or PathWay (newer) from Wollongong (earlier) or E Attachmate (later).  Under either name, it's obsolete, but so is your E VMS version, so that's not amazing.  Experts on this software tend to ! live in nursing homes these days.   E    Most likely, I could tell you everything you need to know, but I'm H afraid that I might reveal some trivial fact about my system environmentF which would tell you more private things than you need to know, so I'mF through fooling around with this whole waste of time.  Best of luck onF your search for help.  Someone else probably has more patience than I.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 13:39:09 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostC Message-ID: <1157661549.562438.188430@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Christopher Lusardi wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: > > Christopher Lusardi wrote:% > > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: ~ > > > > In article <1157648781.036761.130630@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes:	 > > > > >  > > > > > Rob Brown wrote:9 > > > > >> On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote: 
 > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Paul Sture wrote:
 > > > > >> >>  > > > > >> >> Try 
 > > > > >> >>  > > > > >> >> $ show net > > > > >> >B > > > > >> > It did not give the IP address or complete host name!
 > > > > >>" > > > > >> What *did* it tell you?	 > > > > > 	 > > > > > Q > > > > > show network said it's a nonrouting node, and does not have any network O > > > > > information. It did list the designated router for the machine, but I L > > > > > can not post it due to privacy issues between me and my employeer. > > > > D > > > > This indicates that it's a DECnet end node on a network thatG > > > > apparently contains a DECnet routing node.  That won't help you  > > > > use TCP/IP.  > > > > K > > > > You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old. I > > > > Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to / > > > > be looking for it under the name "UCX".  > > > >  > > > > $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX*  > > > I > > > I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the & > > > files without system privaleges. > > > / > > > > When in doubt, try:  $ telnet 127.0.0.1  > > > 8 > > > I was able to telnet to the same machine I was on. > > >  > > > Chris Lusardi  > >  > > = > > Just type in telnet with no address and see what it says.  > 
 > It says: > 	 > %telnet 	 > telnet>  >  > Chris Lusardi   ; My guess is Wollongong PathWay, which I know nothing about.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:47:55 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609071545540.15591@localhost.localdomain>   . On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:   >  > sol gongola wrote:E >> If you do have system people for the machine, they should be most  $ >> qualified to answer the question. > G > I want to figure out how to do it on my own for other systems in the  0 > future so that I can ftp to them from Windows.  E The way you figure out how to do it on your own is to ask the system  @ manager.  The system manager gives you the account.  The system ! manager tells you how to connect.      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:51:00 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of HostE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609071549180.15591@localhost.localdomain>   . On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:   > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: G >> You've indicated that you're running VMS 5.5-2.  That's plenty old.  E >> Not too old to have TCP/IP, but old enough that you might want to  * >> be looking for it under the name "UCX". >> >> $ DIR SYS$MANAGER:*UCX* > F > I do not see any files with tcp in the name, and I can not view the " > files without system privaleges.  * Were any files found with UCX in the name?     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2006 00:15:31 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host+ Message-ID: <4mbr12F5ffrvU1@individual.net>   3 In article <yyf8sEK26koQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:~ > In article <paul.sture.nospam-DFB88D.19465907092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:H >> For example, I've edited the private bits from a couple of different ( >> systems below to show something else: >>  
 >> $ show net G >> Product:  DECNET        Node:  FOO_1               Address(es):  1.2 @ >> Product:  MultiNet      Node:  someaddress.com Address(es):   >> 123.456.789.1 >>  K >> Product:  DECNET        Node:  FOO_2                Address(es):  23.456 D >> Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  another_address.org Address(es):   >> 192.168.4.101 > G >    The version of VMS the OP said he's using doesn't support anything + >    but DECnet in its show network output.  > F >    From what he's said so far I haven't seen anything that indicatesH >    there is an IP stack on his system.  I really think we ought to letI >    him scan the FAQ before we run him ratty with nifty ideas that don't  >    apply.  >   A Perhaps I'm just being obtuse, but wouldn't the simplest solution 8 merely be to ask these questions of the local sys admin?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:03:39 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host* Message-ID: <45005efe@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Christopher Lusardi wrote:  H > I can use DECnet (set host) from one machine to another, but I want to, > learn how to do it using telnet or rlogin.      Hello Christopher,   O    Please first realize that providing terse responses slows down your getting  M the answers you need and want -- details can and do help, error messages and  L output can and do help.  One-line questions such as those that started this I thread off are surprisingly difficult to answer -- the question and your  P requirements and your goals are undoubtedly patently obvious to you, but may or P may not be nearly obvious to me.  Background helps us.  Details of goal(s) help O us.  Version number(s) and platforms help us.  Etc.  Taken together, this data  N and this supporting material can folks target your question, and can help get O you the answer you want and need.  The background can also help you to receive  L alternatives; other approaches -- different techniques, tools or solutions. I (Please don't take this the wrong way, either -- no offense is intended.)   L    Based on my initial read of the thread here, it appears you don't have a H TCP/IP stack either installed, or you do have one and it is not started.      The command:       DIRECTORY SYS$SYSTEM:UCX*.*  Q    Will show a bunch of files if you have TCP/IP Services installed.  (There are  N other IP stacks, this is the one that is/was offered by DIGITAL/Compaq/HP and K that is compatible with the OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 series of OpenVMS releases.  I There are other third-party IP stacks around, as well, though I'm not as  0 familiar with the management of those products.)      The DCL command      $ UCX SHOW VERSION   N    Can also potentially tell you if you have TCP/IP Services installed.  (And Q what version of it.  Clearly a version prior to V5.0, but there were a number of  J such versions.  I'd expect to see a V4.* version installed here.)  If the J command works, you might have parts at least installed, and might need to O configure and start it.  If the command errors and/or if you see no files from  O the previous DIRECTORY command, then you likely don't have the TCP/IP Services   IP stack installed.)  I    And another question around the background: is this a hobbyist system?   Q    And do you have a license for either NET-APP*, or for UCX?  (The SHOW LICENSE  R command can display which license(s) are loaded on the OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 system.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:30:46 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host* Message-ID: <45007369@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   sol gongola wrote:  1 > maybe you don't have tcpip or networking setup.   O    It's very likely too old -- that IP information shows up in SHOW NETWORK is  P newer than OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2.  This display arrived in OpenVMS V6.2, IIRC, and M with a compliant IP stack loaded.  (Prior to V6.2, you would see only DECnet  < information.  The IP network information display was added.)  J    The original questioner needs to contact the local system (or network) Q manager or support organization -- without privileges, there's little or nothing  Q that can be done to resolve any of the apparent issues here, to configure and/or  * correct whatever problem is involved here.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:28:28 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host2 Message-ID: <06090722282843_2027FAC5@antinode.org>  .    "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>:  G    Assuming that it's installed and running properly, and that it's not  too old:  :       RUN TWG$TCP:[PATHWAY_ADMIN]PATHWAY$LIST_SOFTWARE.EXE  
 Mine says:       [...]   * (I put "..." above to keep private stuff.)    3    If it's not already set ("SHOW SYMBOL NETSTAT"):   B       NETSTAT == "$TWG$TCP:[NETDIST.USER]NETSTAT"   !!! As needed.   then:        netstat -in   F I'd guess that the Ethernet device is "ep0".  (Hint: It's not "lo0".)  Once you know the IP address:   D       NSLOOKUP == "$TWG$TCP:[NETDIST.USER]NSLOOKUP"   !!! As needed.   then:        nslookup <ip_address>   B This step should work from elsewhere on your network, too.  (If itG doesn't, it's hard to see how you'll be able to reach the VAX by name.)     *    Configuration information should be in:  )       TWG$TCP:[NETDIST.MISC]STARTINET.COM   F It might be readable by anyone, or it might not.  (Mine is.)  Look for "ifconfig".         Also:         HELP @PATHWAY        HELP @PATHWAY Pathway   9 If it's too old, look for "WIN/TCP" or something similar.     E    Best advice of all, talk to the local system manager, because with G your concept of privacy (and your apparent expectations of clairvoyance B from everyone else), you're unlikely to get much more help in thisH forum.  I'm certainly not likely to start up my VAXstation 2000 again toF do any more research for anyone who seems so intent on wasting so much of everyone else's time.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 00:24:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host, Message-ID: <4500F05C.5057B9E1@teksavvy.com>  B $SHOW NETWORK is one option. But it may not show ALL configured IP@ addresses on this host (one host may have multiple IP addresses)  G $TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE  is another. This shows all configured interfaces   H $ifconfif -a  is yet another. Again, it shows all configured interfaces.  8 to find the host name: nslookup <ip address> is one way.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 00:31:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host, Message-ID: <4500F214.4BAA4757@teksavvy.com>  E Another way: can you telnet from that node to another node ?  You can G then use tools on that remote node to find out where the call is coming  from and get your answer.   H Note that if you are at 5.5-2, SHOW NETWORK and TCPIP commands don't yet exist for TCPIP stuff.    = In SHOW SYSTEM, do you see any UCX ? Any MULTINET ? any CMU ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 00:42:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host, Message-ID: <4500F4B5.69B3970F@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:   >    DIRECTORY SYS$SYSTEM:UCX*.*  ? Not if you are an unprivileged user as this person seems to be.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:40:12 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> H Subject: Re: How Do I Determine The IP Address And Complete Name Of Host9 Message-ID: <RdqdneN8vsn-nZzYnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:0 >    "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>: > I >    Assuming that it's installed and running properly, and that it's not 
 > too old: > < >       RUN TWG$TCP:[PATHWAY_ADMIN]PATHWAY$LIST_SOFTWARE.EXE >  > Mine says:
 >       [...]  > , > (I put "..." above to keep private stuff.) >  > 5 >    If it's not already set ("SHOW SYMBOL NETSTAT"):  > D >       NETSTAT == "$TWG$TCP:[NETDIST.USER]NETSTAT"   !!! As needed. >  > then:  >       netstat -in  > H > I'd guess that the Ethernet device is "ep0".  (Hint: It's not "lo0".)  > Once you know the IP address:  > F >       NSLOOKUP == "$TWG$TCP:[NETDIST.USER]NSLOOKUP"   !!! As needed. >  > then:  >       nslookup <ip_address>  > D > This step should work from elsewhere on your network, too.  (If itI > doesn't, it's hard to see how you'll be able to reach the VAX by name.)  >  > , >    Configuration information should be in: > + >       TWG$TCP:[NETDIST.MISC]STARTINET.COM  > H > It might be readable by anyone, or it might not.  (Mine is.)  Look for
 > "ifconfig".  >  > 
 >    Also: >  >       HELP @PATHWAY  >       HELP @PATHWAY Pathway  > ; > If it's too old, look for "WIN/TCP" or something similar.  >  > G >    Best advice of all, talk to the local system manager, because with I > your concept of privacy (and your apparent expectations of clairvoyance D > from everyone else), you're unlikely to get much more help in thisJ > forum.  I'm certainly not likely to start up my VAXstation 2000 again toH > do any more research for anyone who seems so intent on wasting so much > of everyone else's time. > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   G Aw, don't be that way.  How about this question.  How do I find the IP    address on my Windoz 3.1 system?  H I didn't get into this thread because I sensed information that was way I too terse.  Either someone expecting everyone else to be running exactly  A the same (ancient) software, or a troll being terse deliberately.    Gotta agree with your attitude.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 13:09:28 -0700 0 From: "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com>Y Subject: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Comput A Message-ID: <1157659768.211260.38970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   # My question is on the command line.   
 Thank you, Christopher Lusardi    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:34:14 -0400) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> Y Subject: Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Co H Message-ID: <7dd80f60609071334m5312387eoa1b1e3a18c0b85ee@mail.gmail.com>  M On 7 Sep 2006 13:09:28 -0700, Christopher Lusardi <clusardi2k@aol.com> wrote: % > My question is on the command line.  >   2 Before there was TCP/IP and FTP, there was DECnet.  < To do a DECnet copy (assuming everything is set up properly): $ copy local.file remotenode"remoteuser remotepass"::*/log  F If DECnet proxies have been set up on the remote node, you do not need" to use the "remoteuser remotepass"   Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:14:58 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> Y Subject: Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Co 0 Message-ID: <1157663673.790290@nntp.acecape.com>   Christopher Lusardi wrote:% > My question is on the command line.  >  > Thank you, > Christopher Lusardi  >  help copy /ftp   help copy examples   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:59:42 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> Y Subject: Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Co E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609071558440.15591@localhost.localdomain>   . On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Christopher Lusardi wrote:  % > My question is on the command line.    http://www.hp.com/go/vms/faq     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:12:53 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Co 0 Message-ID: <4500D1A5.C57C3AD0@spam.comcast.net>   Ken Robinson wrote:  > O > On 7 Sep 2006 13:09:28 -0700, Christopher Lusardi <clusardi2k@aol.com> wrote: ' > > My question is on the command line.  > >  > 4 > Before there was TCP/IP and FTP, there was DECnet. > > > To do a DECnet copy (assuming everything is set up properly)< > $ copy local.file remotenode"remoteuser remotepass"::*/log > H > If DECnet proxies have been set up on the remote node, you do not need$ > to use the "remoteuser remotepass"  C ...or you may just need the "remoteuser" part, depending on how the  proxies are set up.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 22:04:14 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: Re: Is There Something Besides The FTP Command To Copy A File Between Two VMS Co 3 Message-ID: <0qNEDbtHLw1A@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <1157659768.211260.38970@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Christopher Lusardi" <clusardi2k@aol.com> writes:% > My question is on the command line.   B That is an annoying habit, and in fact it exceeded my screen width& so I have no idea what you are asking.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 19:06:59 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Lost news articles , Message-ID: <n5_Lg.9$iQ5.4@news.cpqcorp.net>  F Just to let folks know that we had some news server failure inside of E HP.  There were posts lost by the server (I can see them from google  > groups, but they got lost here).  I didn't try to make a list.  C Now, if you posted something to one of us back here in OpenVMS but  D didn't get a response, it doesn't mean we're ignoring you (well, it ) might mean that, but you get the idea...)    --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:22:52 +0000 (UTC). From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com>1 Subject: MinVMS or CD backup and volume shadowing , Message-ID: <edpo1s$k34$1@reader2.panix.com>  > We have an alphaserver DS25, VMS 8.2.  We're going to create a@ shadow set with two data disks for the first time.  My questions: are about backup/restore, specifically using MinVMS or the8 mini-VMS you get by booting the VMS 8.2 Installation CD.  ? 1. Currently we have MinVMS on DISK1 (a data disk, not a system  disk), installed via: .    $ @sys$system:axpvms$pcsi_install_min DISK1 It's used as follows:    a. shutdown the system!   b. boot from root SYSE on DISK1 9   c. make special backups (for example, a good image copy      of the system disk) 8   d. shutdown MinVMS and re-boot the normal system disk. That all works fine.  ; However, DISK1 is going to become one of the two disks in a > shadow set (assume the other disk is DISK2).  I think I should: take MinVMS off DISK1 and put it on another (non-shadowed): data disk because using MinVMS as shown above would change; DISK1 (log files in the SYSE hierarchy and so on), and when 8 when I re-booted, DISK1 would be inconsistent with DISK29 so that re-forming the shadow set would require some kind  of copy or merge.    Right?  < 2. Are MinVMS or the mini-VMS system that you get by booting; the VMS 8.2 Installation CD aware of shadow sets?  In other 7 words, when I am in the MinVMS environment, can I mount   DISK1 and DISK2 as a shadow set?     [Bonus question:; 3. What are the official names of what I've called "MinVMS" 6 and "the environment you get when you boot the VMS 8.2: installation CD"?  And if they don't have names, shouldn't they?]   --  7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:41:11 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>5 Subject: Re: MinVMS or CD backup and volume shadowing * Message-ID: <450067ca@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Dale Dellutri wrote:@ > We have an alphaserver DS25, VMS 8.2.  We're going to create aB > shadow set with two data disks for the first time.  My questions< > are about backup/restore, specifically using MinVMS or the: > mini-VMS you get by booting the VMS 8.2 Installation CD.  9    What you get when you boot the distro disk is OpenVMS.   7    It's full OpenVMS, running from a write-locked disk.   = > However, DISK1 is going to become one of the two disks in a @ > shadow set (assume the other disk is DISK2).  I think I should< > take MinVMS off DISK1 and put it on another (non-shadowed)< > data disk because using MinVMS as shown above would change= > DISK1 (log files in the SYSE hierarchy and so on), and when : > when I re-booted, DISK1 would be inconsistent with DISK2; > so that re-forming the shadow set would require some kind  > of copy or merge.   K    When you re-form the shadow set after some operation, one volume is the  1 source of the copy, and one volume is the target.   Q    And I would use another disk, or I would use the installation disk, and would  N not have the "spare" copy of OpenVMS on the same disk as the main system disk.  M   This disparate bootable system disk configuration because, for instance, a  N file deletion affecting the system common root would also obviously alter the  files shared by the SYSE root.  L    Host-based volume shadowing can and does protects against hardware-level K block errors (as does most any other mirroring or RAID-like solution), but  N neither HBVS nor RAID nor mirroring protects against higher-level failures or L errant user file deletions or operational errors or such.  (Aiming a shadow O merge the wrong way, for instance, is an example of an operational-level error  P that shadowing cannot defend against -- it's also why I tend to use /CONFIRM on 4 the MOUNT commands when I'm working with shadowing.)  > > 2. Are MinVMS or the mini-VMS system that you get by booting5 > the VMS 8.2 Installation CD aware of shadow sets?     P    OpenVMS on the distro is not licensed for shadowing, but it's quite possible P to (re)build your own which has the volume shadowing licenses loaded.  But why? N   OpenVMS works just fine with the individual disks of a shadowset, which has = been quite adequate for whatever I've needed with shadowsets.   B > In other words, when I am in the MinVMS environment, can I mount" > DISK1 and DISK2 as a shadow set?  O    No.  But you can mount the individual disks, which means you can BACKUP and  O restore them.  And once you have the restored disk, you reboot OpenVMS and let  - it run the shadow copy, replicating the data.    > [Bonus question:= > 3. What are the official names of what I've called "MinVMS" 8 > and "the environment you get when you boot the VMS 8.2< > installation CD"?  And if they don't have names, shouldn't > they?]  M    "OpenVMS".  I usually call the environment the "installation menu", and I  ' will sometimes refer to the $$$ prompt.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:07:40 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: MinVMS or CD backup and volume shadowing 0 Message-ID: <4500D06C.728C5C23@spam.comcast.net>   Dale Dellutri wrote: > [snip]> > 2. Are MinVMS or the mini-VMS system that you get by booting4 > the VMS 8.2 Installation CD aware of shadow sets?   E Even if they are (does SHOW SYSTEM display a SHADOW_SERVER process in C the list?), HBVS requires a PAK to be loaded, and AFAIK, LMF is not + active in the stand-alone boot environment.   
 > In other9 > words, when I am in the MinVMS environment, can I mount " > DISK1 and DISK2 as a shadow set?   Never tried hacking that...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 15:11:50 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...3 Message-ID: <hijRsLb0J9$L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <edpenh$7j$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes: > K > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message  / > news:6DILeDnOxKvy@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > E >>> But it is not called "degrees" Kelvin.  It is just called Kelvin.  >>7 >>   That's a change that hasn't been made very public.  > C > The old usage is still common but the change was made in '67/'68. / > http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/kelvin.html   G    It was unknown to anyone I met whle studying physics from 74 through     81.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 23:48:02 -0200 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...* Message-ID: <4500afb2@news.langstoeger.at>  q In article <hijRsLb0J9$L@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: Y >In article <edpenh$7j$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:  >>  L >> "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message 0 >> news:6DILeDnOxKvy@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>  F >>>> But it is not called "degrees" Kelvin.  It is just called Kelvin. >>> 8 >>>   That's a change that hasn't been made very public. >>  D >> The old usage is still common but the change was made in '67/'68.0 >> http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/kelvin.html > H >   It was unknown to anyone I met whle studying physics from 74 through >   81.   6 It was known to me since my 2nd school (from 73 to 77)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:42:51 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> > Subject: Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...9 Message-ID: <BrWdnXhpVtsMA53YnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <edpenh$7j$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:L >> "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message 0 >> news:6DILeDnOxKvy@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>F >>>> But it is not called "degrees" Kelvin.  It is just called Kelvin.8 >>>   That's a change that hasn't been made very public.D >> The old usage is still common but the change was made in '67/'68.0 >> http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/kelvin.html > I >    It was unknown to anyone I met whle studying physics from 74 through  >    81. >   F That's a nit just too small for picking.  Doesn't make any difference H either.  If I say 10 degrees Kelvin and someone doesn't understand what 4 I'm saying, well, he/she doesn't need to understand.  G A bit like the current debate about whether Pluto is a planet.  Do any  C of these people really think the universe gives a damn about their  7 semantics?  Do their names change things in any manner?   F My physics courses were in the early 1970s, and like Bob, nobody ever ; mentioned such a nit.  Of course I'm always ready to learn.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 18:44:22 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...C Message-ID: <1157679862.710342.143390@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote:\ > > In article <edpenh$7j$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:M > >> "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message 2 > >> news:6DILeDnOxKvy@eisner.encompasserve.org... > >>H > >>>> But it is not called "degrees" Kelvin.  It is just called Kelvin.: > >>>   That's a change that hasn't been made very public.  ? Incredible. Some organiztion, apparently the 10th CGPM, changed D "degress Kelvin" to "Kelvins". I never heard temperature referred toD this way in all my years in physics. I don't like it. It just soundsE wrong to me. ... I guess this is from the same school of thought that C gave us the kibibyte and the gibibyte. ... Are we next going to say  it's 72 Farenheits?   F > >> The old usage is still common but the change was made in '67/'68.2 > >> http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/kelvin.html > > K > >    It was unknown to anyone I met whle studying physics from 74 through 
 > >    81. > >  > G > That's a nit just too small for picking.  Doesn't make any difference I > either.  If I say 10 degrees Kelvin and someone doesn't understand what 6 > I'm saying, well, he/she doesn't need to understand.   Yup.  H > A bit like the current debate about whether Pluto is a planet.  Do anyD > of these people really think the universe gives a damn about their9 > semantics?  Do their names change things in any manner?   ? It changes what you put on children's place mats! Of course the F universe doesn't care, but how do you answer "What are all the planets/ in the Solar System"? It affects this question.    > G > My physics courses were in the early 1970s, and like Bob, nobody ever = > mentioned such a nit.  Of course I'm always ready to learn.     C'mon. Pluto is *not* a nit. &-)  ? (Yes, I know you weren't *really* referring to Pluto as a nit.)    >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    AEF    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 04:52:13 +02000 From: "Peter \"Firefly\" Lund" <firefly@diku.dk>> Subject: Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...: Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609080439400.3656@ask.diku.dk>   On Fri, 7 Sep 2006, AEF wrote:  E > gave us the kibibyte and the gibibyte. ... Are we next going to say  > it's 72 Farenheits?   H No, because it is not an SI unit.  Preferably, you will begin saying 22 ; degrees Celcius, which is at least related to an SI unit ;)   I Oh, and could you please start living up to the Treaty of the Meter from  % 1875?  That would be nice, thank you.    -Peter   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:46:27 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> > Subject: Re: OT: IA64's speed beaten by orders of magnitude...9 Message-ID: <RdqdneJ8vslEnJzYnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Peter "Firefly" Lund wrote:   > On Fri, 7 Sep 2006, AEF wrote: > F >> gave us the kibibyte and the gibibyte. ... Are we next going to say >> it's 72 Farenheits? > J > No, because it is not an SI unit.  Preferably, you will begin saying 22 = > degrees Celcius, which is at least related to an SI unit ;)  > K > Oh, and could you please start living up to the Treaty of the Meter from  ' > 1875?  That would be nice, thank you.  >  > -Peter  3 I certainly didn't approve or sign any such treaty.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:46:30 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> & Subject: SAMBA 3.0 (CIFS) with TCPware< Message-ID: <45009fba$0$24177$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>   Folks,  L I've just turned up HP's SAMBA 3.0 (a.k.a. CIFS a.k.a. Common Internet File 7 System) for the first time today and it is really cool. L (and some M$ support people in my group are really pissed now that we might M be serving up their support files from OpenVMS rather than having them do it  ) from their Windows 2003 Server platform.)   K Out of the gate, this product only works with "TCPIP Services for OpenVMS"  G (on OpenVMS-8.2 or higher) but the following unsupported download from  G Process Software is all you need to get it working with TCPware and/or  	 Multinet.   ; ftp://anonymous:cifs@ftp.multinet.process.com/cifsfiles.zip    kudos to both HP and PSC  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 06:59:08 +08003 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 7 Subject: Security issues running images with /TRACEBACK 1 Message-ID: <edq821$6u2$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   @ > But aren't images linked with /TRACEBACK vulnerable to attack?  L Correct as usual Dickie! Which is why you'll find the following paragraph inD the System Parameters section in the Tier3 Client/Server Development	 manual: -    2.1.1.5.5 Debug L The Debug parameter is a boolean "Y" or "N" flag that you use if you wish toL invoke the VMS Debugger from your User Action Routines. If this value is setI to "Y" then Tier3 will activate a special version of the execution server E code that has been linked with the /TRACEBACK qualifier. For security J reasons you should not run Tier3 applications that have the Debug flag set to "Y", in production.  / And this from the Server Development chapter: -    4.1.1 Process InitializationJ Each execution server process is created under the user profile of the VMSJ username that was specified for the application in the Tier3 configurationH file.  For all intents and purposes you can assume that your User ActionG Routines are executing in a process that was created when this username  logged on to the system.  L Please be aware therefore, that the LGICMD file specified in the UAF for theI application's username will be executed before Tier3 gains control of the G execution server. This facility can be useful if you wish to change the L output rate for your log files or set up an Xwindows display for a debuggingJ session. But don't forget that the longer you take to yield control of theB execution server to Tier3 the longer this execution server will be' unavailable to service client requests.    HTH    Cheers Richard Maher  > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:ednkeb$bck$1@news-02.connect.com.au...  > Hi,  > H > If anyone's interested here are the declarations to go with my earlier	 > post: -  > / > 01  debug_on                        pic x(1).  > 01  debug_commands. L >     03  cmd_len                     pic x(1)                value   x"25".J >     03                              pic x(37)               value   "set% > language cobol; show process/full".  >  > Regards Richard Maher  > @ > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message- > news:ediaup$1c7$1@news-02.connect.com.au... 
 > > hi JF, > > K > > I don't know if it would help in your particular circumstance but could  > yourK > > shareable that has been loaded by lib$fis call lib$signal to invoke the L > > debugger? I guess the main image has to be linked with /traceback and itG > > would be nice to be able to $set display/create somewhere and these  things* > > may be out of your control but FWIW: - > > K > > If you look at your t3$examples directory for the file demo_tip.cob you  > will  > > see the following example: - > > F > >     call "lib$get_symbol" using by descriptor "T3$DEBUG", debug_on giving > > sys_status. E > >     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  > > sys_status.  > >  > >     if debug_on = "Y"  > >         call "lib$signal" 6 > >               using   by value        ss$_debug, 19 > >                       by reference    debug_commands.  > >  > > Regards Richard Maher  > >  > > > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message* > > news:44FCA0EC.17DD62C7@teksavvy.com...; > > > I have a very crude VMS MAIL foreign transport image.  > > > J > > > From within VMS Mail, it works fine, and is able to use C file io to( > > > create a log file and write to it. > > > K > > > However, for a message processed by the TCPIP symbiont, it fails with  anL > > > access violation. (symbiont survives, issues non-delivery notification1 > > > and continues processing for next message).  > > > A > > > the symbiont allegedly uses callable mail which itself used F > > > lib$find_image symbol to load my routine into memory and call itH > > > repeatedly. The first time it is called, my routine is supposed to open; > > > the log file. It doesn't appear to even get that far.  > > > K > > > The symbiont itself doesn't have any standard SYS$OUTPUT or SYS$ERROR H > > > files, so I can understand statements such as printf failing.  But I'veF > > > removed all printf's. And this image doesn't make use of any DCLL > > > facilities. (It does use LIB$GET_LOGICAL though, but that is permittedC > > > even for a process that is detached and without DCL, right ?)  > > > J > > > I've verified that the TCPIP$SMTP user account is able to create the9 > > > file in its own directory (via decnet and a proxy).  > > >  > > > I > > > Any hints on how one can go about debugging an image (mine) that is G > > > invoked by an image (callable mail) that is invoked by a symbiont ! > > > (TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT) ?????  > > > H > > > Since it appears to work from DCL "MAIL" command, what differences would I > > > there be when invoked by the callable mail interface ? Or is it the  factJ > > > that it runs as part of a symbiont ? Shirley, the TCPIP symbiont hasG > > > been able to process destinations that are foreign transports for  > > > VMSMAIL ?  > > > K > > > (The destination is actually a username who has a "SET FORWARD" to my  > > transport).  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:06:55 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC 9 Message-ID: <lcCdndDsEbyJFZ3YnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@libcom.com>   
 Andrew wrote:  > Bob Koehler wrote:_ >> In article <44FDA9DE.E05B3DA3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: 6 >>> DECNET should never have had a need for a licence.K >>    And all software should be free?  Sorry, but I make my living writing H >>    software and I expect the company I work for to get money from its >>    customers. > A > I agree with your sentiments with respect to paid for SW hardly ! > suprising given who I work for.  > E > However there is a difference here, no other vendor charged for the E > basic networking software required to link two or more systems from E > different vendors together except DEC, the norm for the rest of the 7 > industry was that this was part of the base platform.  > C > To make matters worse the base platforms including networking for F > competing OS platforms invariably cost less than OpenVMS without any > addtional networking support.  > E > DEC quite clearly didn't understand the dynamics of the market they G > were operating in, what they attempted to do was analogous to someone < > like Ford trying to charge extra for an accelerator pedal. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >   ( I dislike having to agree with andy boy.  F But in addition to the above, it was DEC who first declared that "the G network is the system".  DEC was a leader into networking, with DECnet  I rather than TCP/IP, but still a leader.  Then they didn't recognize that  + networking should be a core part of any OS.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:47:03 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ; Subject: RE: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st century? T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401A11D74@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20 " > Sent: September 7, 2006 12:12 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st century? >=20B > In article <44ff82c7$0$3578$815e3792@news.qwest.net>, Stephen=20% > Eickhoff <operagost@og.com> writes:  >=20? > > But it's all still riding on a message store that hasn't=20  > seen a significant=20 < > > enhancement in some time (I'm guessing... 1988).  The=20 > greatest flaw is the=20 > > > failure to store message size within the indexed file. =20 > This negatively=20: > > impacts performance of POP3 and IMAP to a large degree >=20; > But VMS users read their mail without using POP3 or IMAP.  >=20B > If you want to use a VMS machine to serve mail files to other=20 > operating F > systems, there are several third party products to do exactly that -$ > one released within the past year. >=20F > If you, with a goal off the design-center, are unwilling to buy fromA > third party vendors, there will soon be no third party vendors.  >=20 > Larry Kilgallen + > third party vendor not in the email space  >=20  F As Larry stated, as an OS platform provider, you typically do not want; to chase ISV's away by coming out with a competing product.   C For those interested in commercial OpenVMS based email options, the  following is also available:  9 http://www.stalker.com/content/news_article_01252005.html 0 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/mail.html=20+ http://www.stalker.com/content/download.htm    Good thing about this offering: F - replace MS Exchange server back end with HA platform with ultra high security.=20  H For giggles, ask current MS Exchange Customers how they do multi-site HA email today...   :-)   F - clients keep running their Outlook clients (yes, I know, but lots of Custs use this client)   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:25:44 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: What is PSDC T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401A11D5B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: jls [mailto:jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net]=20 ! > Sent: September 7, 2006 9:27 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: What is PSDC  >=203 > On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:45:36 +0200, Marc Van Dyck " > <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> wrote: >=20 > > G > >I'm sorry but all those tools do not offer yet all the features that C > >the PSDC/PSPA combination used to offer. Specially the real time E > >performance display and the system tuning expert engine, which are  > >still unrivalled. >=20: > I always loved the PSDC/PSPA tools for helping me manageH > performance.... but that was a long time ago, and before CA bought the > tools. >=20B > Since the CA buy of the tools, I have serious concerns about theG > updates to the rulebase.  Without a good rulebase, the "system tuning & > expert engine" is basically useless. >=20H > Now, to be fair, my exposure to the tool is severely limited now.  ButE > as of 3 or 4 years ago, I know that the rules were very old and not D > applicable to the then-current Alpha processors (let alone today's > Integrity servers).  >=20G > Now, I would LOVE to have a tool continue in usefulness that the PSPA A > tool used to be.  And it would be very interesting to hear from  > current PSPA customers.  >=20   Jls,  F Co-incidentally, I received the following email from CA just recently-  9 Unicenter(r) Performance Management for OpenVMS I64 r3=20   > CA is pleased to invite you to participate in the Unicenter(r)< Performance Management for OpenVMS I64 r3 Beta program. YourD participation offers you the ability to validate this new product inA your own environment, allowing you to give us feedback on product + enhancements, quality and the beta program.   A Your contribution to this critical product test cycle is directly D related to the success of the generally available (GA) release of CAE products and ensures that we deliver solutions that are ready to meet  your real-world requirements.   H As a participant in the beta program, you will communicate directly withE the Beta Research and Development team to investigate and address any ) reported problems, questions or comments.   A Unicenter(r) Performance Management for OpenVMS I64 automatically F collects and analyzes OpenVMS I64 performance data, providing you with> knowledge-based expert tuning advice, real-time monitoring and> historical graphs and reports. It helps you identify potentialB performance problems and take remedial actions before the problems adversely impact your business.   " Top three key features include:=20  E - Real-time monitoring of OpenVMS I64 performance metrics such as CPU F utilization, disk I/O per second, hard fault rate, direct I/O, etc.=20C - Expert performance tuning advice using a knowledge-base of tuning  rules=20F - Historical performance analysis reports, graphs and charts analyzing the collected data=20    What's New:=20  6 - Enhanced data collection for HP Integrity servers=20B - New and enhanced performance tuning rules, reports and graphs=20F - Data collection and analysis of OpenVMS eXtended File Cache (XFC)=20; - Support for a large number of disks (up to 4000 disks)=20 B - Mixed architecture cluster support and the ability to analyze HPE Integrity, Alpha and VAX servers from a single Performance Advisor=20    Register Now  F For additional information on the Unicenter Performance Management for< OpenVMS I64 r3 Beta program and to register, please log intoF SupportConnect, once logged in click on the link below. If you are notG redirected to the welcome page, please copy and paste the URL into your  browser.  A Unicenter Performance Management for OpenVMS I64 r3 Beta program: G http://supportconnectw.ca.com/public/beta/perfmgti64/perfmgti64beta.asp   
 Sincerely,=20   : Unicenter Performance Management for OpenVMS I64 Beta Team   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:54:17 +0200 - From: Marc Van Dyck <marc.vandyck@brutele.be>  Subject: Re: What is PSDC 2 Message-ID: <mn.3d5e7d6922044363.30579@brutele.be>   jls pretended : 3 > On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:45:36 +0200, Marc Van Dyck " > <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> wrote: >  >>  G >> I'm sorry but all those tools do not offer yet all the features that C >> the PSDC/PSPA combination used to offer. Specially the real time E >> performance display and the system tuning expert engine, which are  >> still unrivalled. > : > I always loved the PSDC/PSPA tools for helping me manageH > performance.... but that was a long time ago, and before CA bought the > tools. > B > Since the CA buy of the tools, I have serious concerns about theG > updates to the rulebase.  Without a good rulebase, the "system tuning & > expert engine" is basically useless. > H > Now, to be fair, my exposure to the tool is severely limited now.  ButE > as of 3 or 4 years ago, I know that the rules were very old and not D > applicable to the then-current Alpha processors (let alone today's > Integrity servers).  > G > Now, I would LOVE to have a tool continue in usefulness that the PSPA A > tool used to be.  And it would be very interesting to hear from  > current PSPA customers.   B As far as I know, CA is currently working on a new version of thisE tool. Itanium port of course, like for Console Manager and Scheduler, < but also a complete review of the rules set and new hardware? definitions. Other features supposedly inchanged. Beta test is  	 starting, B I'm waiting for my kit... This Itanium version is an absolute pre-@ requisite for our migration, specially the real time monitoring.   --  
 Marc Van Dyck    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2006 15:20:41 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-2] ECO date3 Message-ID: <c4PB$8Zl0I5p@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4markmF5am04U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > @ > Not really, they just bought one of the new time machines from > Daimler/Chrysler.   E    Gee, I hope that's a Dodge time machine.  My latest Dodge has been A    pretty good, but I hear MB has been having reliability issues.   B    Hearing MB has reliability issues is like finding Porsches that    move slowly.  8-(   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:50:31 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-2] ECO date$ Message-ID: <edq0mn$294$1@online.de>  3 In article <c4PB$8Zl0I5p@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   X > In article <4markmF5am04U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > B > > Not really, they just bought one of the new time machines from > > Daimler/Chrysler.  > G >    Gee, I hope that's a Dodge time machine.  My latest Dodge has been C >    pretty good, but I hear MB has been having reliability issues.  > D >    Hearing MB has reliability issues is like finding Porsches that >    move slowly.  8-(  E Actually, the reputation of Mercedes has gone WAY down in the last 15 H years or so, while Porsche's has improved.  Note that Porsche is now theF most profitable car company in Germany---not profit per car, but TOTALE profit.  I think the facts that all shares with voting writes are all G owned by 8 grandchildren of the company's founder and the fact that, as G the only Germany car company to do so, they have NOT introduced English H as a "group language", but continue to use German (at least in Germany),C have something to do with it.  Many German companies have lost what A people used to value in them in a misplaced ploy to become global G players when in many cases what made them valuable was the "Germanness" 	 of them.    @ Maybe the time machine is someone buying a Chrysler in 1965 and H muttering to himself "it'll be at least a 100 years before I can afford I a Daimler" and then being surprised that he bought one 41 years ago.  :-)    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.492 ************************