1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 13 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 503       Contents: Re: Accounting Questions Re: Accounting Questions# Re: All is not well at the HP board # Re: All is not well at the HP board  Another DS10L Blowout ! ( Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats Digital TCP/IP Services V4.2" Re: FOCUS application, written in?" Re: FOCUS application, written in? Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure & RE: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers( Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3?( Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3?- Re: Hurd to become HP's chairman of the board , Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India ix/xii puns ' Limiting bytlm within a spawned process + Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process + Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process + Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process + Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process  Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES  Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES  Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Need to read a TK50 tape Re: Personal note - goodbye ! ! Should SET VC/CHECKSUM be default % Re: Should SET VC/CHECKSUM be default % Re: Should SET VC/CHECKSUM be default  Re: SYS$LANGUAGE SYS$LANGUAGE Re: SYS$LANGUAGE Re: SYS$LANGUAGE Re: SYS$LANGUAGE Re: SYS$LANGUAGE TECO broken on I64 VMS 8.3P VMS Crash Audit_EventW Compass/Level Handshake - Blue horseshoe loves Andecot StP Re: VMS Crash Audit_EventW Compass/Level Handshake - Blue horseshoe loves Andeco' Re: VMS support goes to India next week # VMS support goes to India next week ' Re: VMS support goes to India next week ' Re: VMS support goes to India next week ' Re: VMS support goes to India next week & Re: You didn't order the Metallic Pea?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:09:25 +0200 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>! Subject: Re: Accounting Questions 5 Message-ID: <1158131365.962314@proxy.dienste.wien.at>    I wrote:  I > While playing a little bit with accounting, I encountered that from the  timeC > where a print or batch terminates until its record appears in the 
 accounting= > file, there is a delay of several seconds up to one minute.  > I > Where this delay comes from? Is there a system parameter affecting this I > interval? What exactly happens when an accounting record is written out " > (e.g, with the $SNDJBC service)?  I Just to be precise: this is _not_ for curiosity. It's really a problem. I  have aH CGI script which submits a print job - the job just takes few seconds toL complete - and I want to supply the job's return status to the submitter. SoL I have to read the approbiate accounting record (because there isn't anotherL way to get this informatiion, isn't it?) and therefore wait until it appearsH therein. Because this takes so long sometimes, the WEBserver running theF CGI script drops the connection before I can get the accounting recordF (and I cannot change this) and the user receives an error message even when the job itself gets okay!  D Meanwhile, I've found out that's the JOB_CONTROL process which keepsB the file ACCOUNTNG.DAT openend - not really surprising. So I wouldJ assume that this process collects events (as print/batch job terminations)J for a specific period of time and, when the period has elapsed, writes all0 collected events at once to the accounting file.  K So the question is: is there a way either to reduce the "collection period" K or tell the job controller to write out all accounting records immediately?   3 BTW: this is VMS V6.2 (VAX) and VMS V7.3-2 (Alpha).   - MTIA for your suggestions, and kind greetings    Ferry    --   Ing Ferry Bolhar  Magistrat der Stadt Wien - MA 14 A-1010 Wien  E-Mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:33:48 +0200  From: rejoc <rejoc@FREEfree.fr> ! Subject: Re: Accounting Questions 4 Message-ID: <4507c26d$0$22453$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Ferry Bolhar a crit :
 > I wrote: > K > Just to be precise: this is _not_ for curiosity. It's really a problem. I  > have aJ > CGI script which submits a print job - the job just takes few seconds toN > complete - and I want to supply the job's return status to the submitter. SoN > I have to read the approbiate accounting record (because there isn't anotherN > way to get this informatiion, isn't it?) and therefore wait until it appearsJ > therein. Because this takes so long sometimes, the WEBserver running theH > CGI script drops the connection before I can get the accounting recordH > (and I cannot change this) and the user receives an error message even  > when the job itself gets okay!I another approach would be to get the job number ($entry symbol if DCL or  8 through $sndjbc when submitting the print job) and do a I synchronize/entry=... (or something equivalent with system services). If  G the print queue is set /retain=all, you will be able to get the status  J of the job when it's done with f$getqui (or corresponding system service). > F > Meanwhile, I've found out that's the JOB_CONTROL process which keepsD > the file ACCOUNTNG.DAT openend - not really surprising. So I wouldL > assume that this process collects events (as print/batch job terminations)L > for a specific period of time and, when the period has elapsed, writes all2 > collected events at once to the accounting file.G I would gess that the inforation is actually written to the accounting  $ file but there is no forced flush... > M > So the question is: is there a way either to reduce the "collection period" M > or tell the job controller to write out all accounting records immediately?  > 5 > BTW: this is VMS V6.2 (VAX) and VMS V7.3-2 (Alpha).  > / > MTIA for your suggestions, and kind greetings  >  > Ferry  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:12:03 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board< Message-ID: <4507e5e7$0$24196$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:450792F8.8E6D63F2@teksavvy.com... > Neil Rieck wrote:  [...snip...] > J > One possibility is that board bylaws require a certain minimum number ofC > board members. Perhaps the departure of Keyworth (the leaker) and H > Perkins (the "angry guy") has brought the borad member numbers down toD > the limit and the departure of Dunn would require immediate actionE > (aka:L extraordinary shareholder meeting or whatever is required to $ > select replacement board members). > D > If Dunn is charged, she may immediatly step dwon from chairmanshipH > (instead of waiting till January) but remain on the board until she isC > found guilty at which point she automatically goes off the board  
 > completely.  > J > It is also possible that they will not find any evidence that Dunn askedF > the investigators to "do whatever it takes, and don't tell me if youB > break the law", at which point, only the investigators and phoneJ > companies will be charged in the issue pf pre-texting and HP will not beH > charged at all, at which point la Dunn can remain on the board forever4 > and continue to get her free lunches/travel/perks. > L I'm still trying to find the article I was reading yesterday (so I can post M it here) but this debacle might be a bigger mess than anyone in the media is   currently admitting.  D 1) HP hired investigators using personal information (like SINs) to G impersonate board members and journalists in order to acquire personal  * information from third and fourth parties.& 2) Dunn claiming she has done no wrongL 3) HP not cooperating with federal investigators prompts the formation of a M congressional investigation comprising of exactly 4 senators (2 democrat and  6 2 republican) so that it doesn't get labelled partisan  I Many people have argued for many years that giving corporations the same  J rights under the constitution as an individual would eventually lead to a L situation where corporations would become more important than citizens. The K current HP fiasco may be the first visible sign that our fears have become   reality.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:30:25 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board< Message-ID: <4507ea34$0$24188$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  5 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message  6 news:4507e5e7$0$24196$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com... > = > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  ( > news:450792F8.8E6D63F2@teksavvy.com...   [...snip...]  I > I'm still trying to find the article I was reading yesterday (so I can  K > post it here) but this debacle might be a bigger mess than anyone in the   > media is currently admitting.  > F > 1) HP hired investigators using personal information (like SINs) to I > impersonate board members and journalists in order to acquire personal  , > information from third and fourth parties.( > 2) Dunn claiming she has done no wrongL > 3) HP not cooperating with federal investigators prompts the formation of M > a congressional investigation comprising of exactly 4 senators (2 democrat  < > and 2 republican) so that it doesn't get labelled partisan > K > Many people have argued for many years that giving corporations the same  L > rights under the constitution as an individual would eventually lead to a J > situation where corporations would become more important than citizens. J > The current HP fiasco may be the first visible sign that our fears have  > become reality.   K Quote: A letter, signed by two Republicans and two Democrats, has asked HP  2 for the names of everyone involved and other data.5 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34296   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:21:00 -0400   From: "DBT" <dbturner@icusc.com>  Subject: Another DS10L Blowout !0 Message-ID: <12gg1dv9bhpo233@news.supernews.com>  * We have another shipment of DS10L in stock   Pricing as follows:    Alphaserver DS10L 466Mhz EV6 256MB Memory Dual 10/100 Ethernet On Board  Dual IDE Controllers On Board  1 Open PCI Slot 7 Universal Power Supply (autoswitching 100~250V 50/60Hz)  30GB 7200RPM ATA Disk   - All this for only $199  + a 6 months warranty   " Delivery in the USA is $30 maximum8 Call or email for a price on shipping to other countries; Payment by credit card only (we do make the odd exceptions) . We do NOT accept Discover or American Express.         --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 06:53:59 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Changes to OpenVMS Patch Kit Formats 3 Message-ID: <GvFUOzwaXl2i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <45074ac1$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:   G >>In article <sfGdnVZw8uSKAZ3YnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble   >><davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>B >>> Ah, some good news.  VAX is to be saved from the PCSI madness. > J > Only in your eyes. I see PCSI as an advantage (think of PRODUCT REMOVE),; > but with a sour taste (think of corrupted PCSI database).   B For sufficiently complex product needs, PCSI is not workable.  ForA instance, LJK/Security creates a username, but PCSI cannot handle > the notion of clusters with multiple system disks.  If you use? the PRODUCT REMOVE command to remove LJK/Security from a single @ system disk, it will remove that username from SYSUAF even if it? is still in use by LJK/Security installed on other system disks ? that share the same SYSUAF.  Note also that some security rules ? require disabling rather than removing usernames to ensure they A will not be reissued and to ensure that audit analysis will still  be meaningful.  ; I know of a DEC layered product that did not use PCSI until > certain improvments are made, but there are still improvements, required for PCSI to be viable in all cases.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:37:12 -0400 A From: retchason <retchason.2e31n9@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> % Subject: Digital TCP/IP Services V4.2 = Message-ID: <retchason.2e31n9@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au>   F I am trying to write a read/write server on OpenVMS V7.1 using Digital3 TCP/IP services V4.2.  I have modified the examples B UCX_TCP_SERVER_QIO_FOR2.FOR and TCPIP$TCP_SERVER_SOCK.C located inD ucx$examples.  Howerver, these examples only accept a connection andB send a message to the client.  They do not read and write.  I haveE modified both the above mentioned examples to be read and write using ? both QIO's and socket api routines and I have the same problem.    The problem is: @ 1.) I post a read on the socket and when the client sends data I retrieve it just fiine. A 2.) I act on the data and send a response to the data back to the  client. F 3.) I then repost a read on the socket and it returns immediately with% the same data from the previous read. C 4.) The program acts on the data and sends data back to the client. G 5.) The read is then reposted to the socket and it waits for the client  to send more data.@ 6.) The client sends data and the program receives the data just fine(new data not old).  7.) The problem now repeats.  G I have verified that the client is not sending data multiple times.  If D I remove the write from the server and just read and then repost the! read the program works just fine.   F Does anyone have any ideas what is going on here.  Does anyone have anD example of a read/write server writen in Fortran or C using qio's or socket api's??  E I have written client appliations on this machine that read and write ' and I do not experience this problem!!!    Thanks :eek:      --  	 retchason H ------------------------------------------------------------------------B retchason's Profile: http://techiegroups.com/member.php?userid=323E View this thread: http://www.techiegroups.com/showthread.php?t=116485    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:29:32 -0500 + From: brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M) + Subject: Re: FOCUS application, written in? 1 Message-ID: <06091311293295@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   R > Does anyone know what the FOCUS application is written in?  COBOL?  FORTRAN? ???  8 David J Dachtera suggest that I dump the application....  I And... I have not had a chance to investigate the others, some are system : lib's, etc... this is related to my MP Synch investigation   FUSELIB_001  CMA$TIS_SHR_001       <-- C 
 LIBRTL_001 DECC$SHR_001          <-- C ! DEC$FORRTL_001        <-- FORTRAN 
 LBRSHR_001
 SCRSHR_001 DPML$SHR_001
 LIBOTS_001 PAS$RTL_001 
 SMGSHR_001 SORTSHR_001 
 DISMNTSHR_001  MOUNTSHR_001     John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:31:25 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)+ Subject: Re: FOCUS application, written in? - Message-ID: <NfXNg.50$6k5.61@news.oracle.com>   _ In article <06091311293295@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M) writes: S >> Does anyone know what the FOCUS application is written in?  COBOL?  FORTRAN? ???  > 9 >David J Dachtera suggest that I dump the application....  > J >And... I have not had a chance to investigate the others, some are system; >lib's, etc... this is related to my MP Synch investigation  >  >FUSELIB_001 >CMA$TIS_SHR_001       <-- C >LIBRTL_001  >DECC$SHR_001          <-- C" >DEC$FORRTL_001        <-- FORTRAN >LBRSHR_001  >SCRSHR_001 
 >DPML$SHR_001  >LIBOTS_001  >PAS$RTL_001 >SMGSHR_001  >SORTSHR_001 >DISMNTSHR_001
 >MOUNTSHR_001  >  >  >John "REBOOT" Brandon >VMS Systems Administrator+ >firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com  >   ? Also apparently referencing PAS$RTL, which might make one think $ there are modules written in Pascal.  C Although these are nice hints, you can't always assume that because < an image has references to FORRTL or COBRTL that it actuallyC contains code that has gone through the FORTRAN or COBOL compilers. @ It's fairly common practice in the OpenVMS world to use routinesC from whatever RTL contains something useful: which is most of them. @ I have programs that use a routine in the BASIC RTL that contain> no BASIC code, and I don't even have the compiler/interpretor.  C Just who / what is the FOCUS application?  Perhaps more information B on that, or just what it is that you're really trying to find out," would elicit a more useful answer.   Bart.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:43:34 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedure, Message-ID: <45079A72.F8399F77@teksavvy.com>   contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > D > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data and > where I can find this : > data using a search command (like a help desk database).' > Is there any procedure already made ?   H You might wish to look into VAX Notes (or is it DEC Notes, Compaq Notes, HP Notes ?)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:04:42 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedure9 Message-ID: <4KGdnb51xqw5AJrYnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d@libcom.com>    contracer11@gmail.com wrote:D > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data and > where I can find this : > data using a search command (like a help desk database).' > Is there any procedure already made ?  > 	 > Thanks.  >   > Sure is.  Use a help library format, and use the HELP utility.  H To use a different library, use HELP /LIBRARY=??? to invoke your custom 0 library.  Such also has a programming interface.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:42:57 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: help desk procedure0 Message-ID: <C12D58F1.252A0%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 9/12/06 10:16 PM, in article L 1158124566.792611.47050@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com, "contracer11@gmail.com" <contracer11@gmail.com> wrote:  D > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data and > where I can find this : > data using a search command (like a help desk database).' > Is there any procedure already made ?  > 	 > Thanks.  > I I developed a set of command procedures that composed, emailed, saved and J searched SPR's (Software Problem Reports) for a software call desk. If youH are interested it will take a few days to dig up and send to you. I even& have a Word document on how to use it.   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 09:05:24 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com   Subject: Re: help desk procedureA Message-ID: <1158163524.224042.99970@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote: ! > On 9/12/06 10:16 PM, in article N > 1158124566.792611.47050@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com, "contracer11@gmail.com"  > <contracer11@gmail.com> wrote: > F > > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data and > > where I can find this < > > data using a search command (like a help desk database).) > > Is there any procedure already made ?  > >  > > Thanks.  > > K > I developed a set of command procedures that composed, emailed, saved and L > searched SPR's (Software Problem Reports) for a software call desk. If youJ > are interested it will take a few days to dig up and send to you. I even( > have a Word document on how to use it. >  > Jeff Cameron      @ I made a DCL command procedure where when I put a string to find  , it show me all string ocurrences, like this:  ' $ search/win=(8,8) help.txt "``string`"   C but how could I make a procedure to show me all "string" ocurrences   7 separated by a "====================" line ? Like this:    $ @find sarbanes    2 ==================================================  6 To see Sarbanes laws read dka2:[documents]sarbanes.txt  2 ==================================================  @ Sarbanes-Oxley provides a complete cross-referenced index of SEC filers, B audit firms, offices, CPAs, services, fees, compliance/enforcement actions * and other critical disclosure information.   2 ==================================================   $    Thanks !   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:46:26 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedureE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609131039030.15092@localhost.localdomain>   0 On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 contracer11@gmail.com wrote:  B > I made a DCL command procedure where when I put a string to find > . > it show me all string ocurrences, like this: > ) > $ search/win=(8,8) help.txt "``string`"  > E > but how could I make a procedure to show me all "string" ocurrences  > 9 > separated by a "====================" line ? Like this:  >  > $ @find sarbanes >  > 4 > ================================================== > 8 > To see Sarbanes laws read dka2:[documents]sarbanes.txt > 4 > ================================================== > B > Sarbanes-Oxley provides a complete cross-referenced index of SEC    @ What is wrong with the asterisks that search prints for you now?  ' $ search/win=(1,1) [.temp]help.txt over  jumps  over the  ***************  ljsdf  over   ***************  where  over the   F If you need a header and trailer line of asterisks, your command file ' could print them with WRITE SYS$OUTPUT.      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 10:15:47 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com   Subject: Re: help desk procedureC Message-ID: <1158167747.073881.234300@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Rob Brown wrote:2 > On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > D > > I made a DCL command procedure where when I put a string to find > > 0 > > it show me all string ocurrences, like this: > > + > > $ search/win=(8,8) help.txt "``string`"  > > G > > but how could I make a procedure to show me all "string" ocurrences  > > ; > > separated by a "====================" line ? Like this:  > >  > > $ @find sarbanes > >  > > 6 > > ================================================== > > : > > To see Sarbanes laws read dka2:[documents]sarbanes.txt > > 6 > > ================================================== > > D > > Sarbanes-Oxley provides a complete cross-referenced index of SEC >  > B > What is wrong with the asterisks that search prints for you now? > ) > $ search/win=(1,1) [.temp]help.txt over  > jumps  > over > the  > ***************  > ljsdf  > over >  > ***************  > where  > over > the  > G > If you need a header and trailer line of asterisks, your command file ) > could print them with WRITE SYS$OUTPUT.  >  >  > -- > D > Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m8 > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)6 > Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)4 >                                   http://gmcl.com/    , Actually, when I issue @find sarbanes I get:    E to see netbackup line command help read dka2:[documents]netbackup.txt   2 ==================================================  6 To see Sarbanes laws read dka2:[documents]sarbanes.txt  2 ==================================================  @ Sarbanes-Oxley provides a complete cross-referenced index of SEC filers, B audit firms, offices, CPAs, services, fees, compliance/enforcement actions * and other critical disclosure information.  2 ==================================================' to see all system process in VAX issue: 
 $ show system    $   A running the procedure I find what I want and another informations  that I don't want...  A Is there any way to put a invisible sequence to control start and  finish ?     Thanks !   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:37:05 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> / Subject: RE: HP announces new Integrity servers T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401A64B78@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20" > Sent: September 11, 2006 2:26 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 > Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- 7 > >> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20 $ > >> Sent: September 9, 2006 8:36 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4 > >> Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers > >> > >> Main, Kerry wrote:  > >=20 > > [snip..] > >=209 > >>> Sigh .. How many times does it need to be repeated?  > >>> F > >>> Customers are looking for supported, stable and highly available) > >>> solutions to run their business.=20  > >>> B > >>> The ones making the business decisions are not burning up=20 > >> their meetings ) > >>> talking about techie chip stuff.=20 E > >> Exactly:  they are looking at *standardizing* (for reasons of=20  > >> cost and=20D > >> support complexity that have nothing to do with 'techie chip=20 > >> stuff') on=20E > >> the *least expensive viable solution*.  And beyond any shadow=20  > >> of a doubt=20D > >> that's x86-64 in any situation where that solution *is* viable. > >> > >=20  > > Again, you are in the weeds. >=20F > Rather than blowing such smoke with zero supporting evidence, try=20H > refuting either statement above to which you purport to be responding: >=20; > 1.  Refute the assertion that customers are seeking to=20  > standardize (for=20 : > reasons of cost and support complexity) on *the least=20 > expensive viable=20  > solution*, and/or  >=20= > 2.  Refute the assertion that the least expensive viable=20  > solution will=20; > be x86-64 in any situation where that solution is viable.  >=20J > Otherwise, shut up:  you're getting tedious and offering no redeeming=20/ > substance to make that worth putting up with.  >=20  8 You are looking at the HW only. Get out of the weeds.=20  ) How many times does that need to be said?   E The BU's want IT to provide solutions that add value to the business. G They could not care less if that solution is based on OpenVMS, Windows, D Linux, Solaris or whatever. They care even less what chip that OS is running on.   4 You need to get out more and talk to real Customers.  E Solution TCO =3D HW + OS + ISV licenses + App migration porting + App G testing + New staff and/or training of old staff + new Operations costs @ + host of other stuff like security, reliability, stability etc.  F If a Customer is looking at migrating to this new *cheaper?* platform,- the TCO of the new solution needs to include:   C - cost of migration in terms of new staff (including payouts to old C staff and in Europe these are very large). And keep in mind the new G staff will have very little knowledge of the business processes used by H the company applications - a huge consideration when you have to support that environment.   H - cost of new server HW and keep in mind the one-app, one server cultureG that is typical with Windows/Linux. Hence, even if you have a great SMP G box, Wintel Customers will continue to use the one app, one OS strategy F which means you need to virtualize the heck out of that big SMP x86-64 box.  F - for Cust's with active-active clustering today where they simply addF servers into the cluster without modifying any application code to addE capacity, what is the impact of moving to a active-passive clustering F environment where primary-fail-over technology is what exists natively; on that target platform? If there is a LP add on to get the F active-active clustering on that target platform, what is the costs ofC that in terms of licensing and support issues? Will there be finger ? pointing if a problem arises and multiple vendors are involved?   @ - cost of new OS licenses. One per server and/or one per logicalD partition. A single server with 10 VMware sessions running MicrosoftG Enterprise Windows Apps requires 10 Windows Enterprise licenses + costs 
 of VMware.  C - will all their ISV vendors support their application running in a E partitioned environment? As an example, Microsoft does not officially F support any of their applications running in a VMware environment. For' some Customers ISV support is critical.   C - cost of new ISV products (including new Operations utilities like 2 backup utilities, anti-virus, batch products etc.)  D - costs of testing and certifying their App's on the new OS *and* HWG platform. For large App's this can be just as large in terms of time as @ the porting effort since it is both a new OS as well as a new HW	 platform.   F - annual re-occurring costs of testing of applications against monthly security patches.     	 [snip...]    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 10:06:30 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers C Message-ID: <1158167190.198121.106160@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > FredK wrote: > > 4 > > Cool.  How fast does VMS run on the Power5+ 4+M? > I > I'm not sure how that would be relevant to this sub-topic, unless HP is F > actually touting price/performance metrics for VMS on Superdome (seeG > above context).  That would be great, since I can't remember the last : > time VMS's owners bothered to benchmark anything on VMS. > I > Of course, if VMS were to be ported to a platform as estimable as POWER H > (if that's what you were obliquely referring to) that would be nice asJ > well (though I'd have to suggest that porting to x86-64 should likely be > a higher priority).   F it is very relevant, because I don't care how good a processor IBM has ifD all they have is junk os's to run on it ... if you rememer my posted email E here to the IBM higher ups, they essentially said they would not look  at= buying vms because it evidently cannot do the job anymore ...   4 another case of NIH syndrome (not invented here) ...   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 10:13:26 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers C Message-ID: <1158167606.092947.296120@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > J > "We find ourselves living in a world of parity; at least as far as Unix,G > OS/400, and VMS servers are concerned. What I mean by this is that as I > far as base technology goes, we have a level playing field. The Windows H > and Linux operating systems have made some progress, but still have toH > make up some ground in terms of scalability, availability and workload? > management in order to compete head-to-head with the dominant I > Unixes--Solaris, AIX, and HP-UX--or IBM's OS/400-based iSeries platform J > or Hewlett-Packard's OpenVMS platform, which may as well both be Unix inA > terms of its uptime, resiliency, security, and sophistication."   C oh yeah Bill ... they are all now on the same field as vms ... well  someone F better tell the CERT people that their security counts between vms and all F the other os's just have to be wrong ... and that they all now cluster like4 vms ... I think you are drinking more than kool aid!  E and the x86 boat anchor continues to sink ... their is a limit to the  numberG of processors and amount of cache you can throw on a dying architecture F to keep it afloat, and in a few more years, intel, amd and anyone else will  run out of tricks ... then what?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:35:53 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers 9 Message-ID: <VN-dnTw8PaE5opXYnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 3 >> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]  # >> Sent: September 11, 2006 2:26 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2 >> Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:  >>>> -----Original Message----- 5 >>>> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]  $ >>>> Sent: September 9, 2006 8:36 PM >>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4 >>>> Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers >>>> >>>> Main, Kerry wrote:  >>> [snip..] >>> 9 >>>>> Sigh .. How many times does it need to be repeated?  >>>>> F >>>>> Customers are looking for supported, stable and highly available' >>>>> solutions to run their business.   >>>>> @ >>>>> The ones making the business decisions are not burning up  >>>> their meetings ' >>>>> talking about techie chip stuff.  C >>>> Exactly:  they are looking at *standardizing* (for reasons of   >>>> cost and B >>>> support complexity that have nothing to do with 'techie chip  >>>> stuff') on C >>>> the *least expensive viable solution*.  And beyond any shadow   >>>> of a doubt D >>>> that's x86-64 in any situation where that solution *is* viable. >>>>  >>> Again, you are in the weeds.E >> Rather than blowing such smoke with zero supporting evidence, try  I >> refuting either statement above to which you purport to be responding:  >>: >> 1.  Refute the assertion that customers are seeking to  >> standardize (for 9 >> reasons of cost and support complexity) on *the least   >> expensive viable  >> solution*, and/or >>< >> 2.  Refute the assertion that the least expensive viable  >> solution will  < >> be x86-64 in any situation where that solution is viable. >>I >> Otherwise, shut up:  you're getting tedious and offering no redeeming  0 >> substance to make that worth putting up with. >> > 8 > You are looking at the HW only. Get out of the weeds.  > + > How many times does that need to be said?  > G > The BU's want IT to provide solutions that add value to the business. I > They could not care less if that solution is based on OpenVMS, Windows, F > Linux, Solaris or whatever. They care even less what chip that OS is
 > running on.  > 6 > You need to get out more and talk to real Customers. > E > Solution TCO = HW + OS + ISV licenses + App migration porting + App I > testing + New staff and/or training of old staff + new Operations costs B > + host of other stuff like security, reliability, stability etc. > H > If a Customer is looking at migrating to this new *cheaper?* platform,/ > the TCO of the new solution needs to include:  > E > - cost of migration in terms of new staff (including payouts to old E > staff and in Europe these are very large). And keep in mind the new I > staff will have very little knowledge of the business processes used by J > the company applications - a huge consideration when you have to support > that environment.  > J > - cost of new server HW and keep in mind the one-app, one server cultureI > that is typical with Windows/Linux. Hence, even if you have a great SMP I > box, Wintel Customers will continue to use the one app, one OS strategy H > which means you need to virtualize the heck out of that big SMP x86-64 > box. > H > - for Cust's with active-active clustering today where they simply addH > servers into the cluster without modifying any application code to addG > capacity, what is the impact of moving to a active-passive clustering H > environment where primary-fail-over technology is what exists natively= > on that target platform? If there is a LP add on to get the H > active-active clustering on that target platform, what is the costs ofE > that in terms of licensing and support issues? Will there be finger A > pointing if a problem arises and multiple vendors are involved?  > B > - cost of new OS licenses. One per server and/or one per logicalF > partition. A single server with 10 VMware sessions running MicrosoftI > Enterprise Windows Apps requires 10 Windows Enterprise licenses + costs  > of VMware. > E > - will all their ISV vendors support their application running in a G > partitioned environment? As an example, Microsoft does not officially H > support any of their applications running in a VMware environment. For) > some Customers ISV support is critical.  > E > - cost of new ISV products (including new Operations utilities like 4 > backup utilities, anti-virus, batch products etc.) > F > - costs of testing and certifying their App's on the new OS *and* HWI > platform. For large App's this can be just as large in terms of time as B > the porting effort since it is both a new OS as well as a new HW > platform.  > H > - annual re-occurring costs of testing of applications against monthly > security patches.   5 Not agreeing with your arguments, but I must observe:   I While your arguments are valid as far as a current VMS user staying with  I VMS, they don't do much for attracting new VMS customers.  My reading of  G the arguments leads me to feel, based upon the arguments, that anybody  1 would be crazy to ever contemplate moving TO VMS.   G Is this the view of VMS Ambassadors today, to hold onto as much of the  H cow as they can, and milk it for all it's worth?  If so, then VMS is in F as much trouble as it's biggest opponents claim.  It's been said many D times, in many ways, you cannot stand still, you either advance, or C decline.  If your best argument for VMS is that it's too costly to  @ migrate to another platform, I for one cannot see VMS advancing.  E Note, these comments are on your arguments, not on the merits of VMS.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:41:10 +0200 7 From: "Eberhard Heuser" <vaxinf@chemie.uni-konstanz.de> 1 Subject: Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3? 0 Message-ID: <00e601c6d710$5d0cb400$05072286@vg2>   Hi,   E If you want the full functionality (DVD+-R, DVD+R DL,DVD+-RW,CD-R(W)) I try DVDwrite (free test avail.) that supports all media mentioned and is   about 2 times faster than # HP's recording solution for DVD+RW.    Eberhard ----- Original Message -----  ! From: "Rod" <rregier@dymaxion.ca>  To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> ) Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:35 PM - Subject: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3?     G > V/A 8.3 has been released.  I have reviewed the SPD and related Alpha ! > hardware support documentation.  > D > I have been unable to find an HP-supported DVD *writer* for Alphas > running V/A 8.3. > F > (I suspect this an artifact of Alpha qualified hardware support list* > being frozen before the release of 8.3). > H > Can anyone tell me directly or point me at an HP reference source thatB > describes a DVD writer that is supported for OpenVMS/Alpha V8.3? > C > My educated guess is that any IDE DVD+R capable writer will work. I > I'm hoping to try out the  LITEON 8X DVDRW INTERNAL SLIM, SLOT-IN model  > SLW-831-S 8 > as a possible DS10L IDE backup solution under V/A 8.3. >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 02:15:43 -0700/ From: "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> 1 Subject: Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3? A Message-ID: <1158138943.070998.96650@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    Eberhard Heuser wrote: > Hi,  > G > If you want the full functionality (DVD+-R, DVD+R DL,DVD+-RW,CD-R(W)) J > try DVDwrite (free test avail.) that supports all media mentioned and is > about 2 times faster than % > HP's recording solution for DVD+RW.  > 
 > Eberhard  7 I can vouch for Eberhard's software -- excellent stuff!    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:48:10 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hurd to become HP's chairman of the board9 Message-ID: <P4ydnRvXIMVZBJrYnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > David Mathog wrote: 2 >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >>H >>> Hurd will become chairman of the board at HP while remaining CEO and >>> president as well.   >>C >> Nothing against Hurd but in general it's a poor idea for one guy A >> to wear all three of those hats.  The board really should have ' >> picked somebody else to be chairman.  > H > Tom Perkins would have been a particularly good choice, given what it : > would have said about HP's alleged commitment to ethics. >  > - bill  I Dunn may have to eat some crow, and whatever.  But no way the person who  I dictated the diet will get anything positive as long as she has anything  G to say about it, and it appears she'll retain some say in such matters.    Can you spell G R U D G E ?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:34:24 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>5 Subject: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 5 Message-ID: <41SNg.2$4i6.1@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   ' Anyone from HP want to comment on this?   5 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34342   # VMS support goes to India next week   0 HP Leak of the Day (C) This must be embarrassing  8 By Charlie Demerjian: Wednesday 13 September 2006, 09:25G LUCKY FOR HP that they caught the onerous 'mad leaker', this could get  H embarrassing for it if leaks continued. So, for the HP leak of the day, I we turn to VMS, layoffs, and other things only a board member would have  = access to this early. I guess they didn't plug all the holes.   E It seems that a good chunk of VMS front line support is going to the  H subcontinent to save a meagre few dollars a month. VMS support was, and F for the next week or so will continue to be, a world class enterprise H support organization. Some bean counting twit at HP realised they could 9 save a few dollars a year by sending those jobs to India.   F Nothing wrong with doing this if you train your staff in India to the F level of the ones you are replacing, and give them the support, tools I and ongoing training they need to do the job they are called upon to do.  D HP is notoriously awful at doing this, if it can save a few dollars I replacing someone with years of experience, it can save more by training   them badly.   F VMS is not Windows Media Center, customers take it very seriously. HP G obviously does not, last time I checked, people with years of hands on  E VMS experience were a little thin in Bangalore. In five years or so,  H they will be up to speed, if HP bothers to train them right, until then 9 it will kind of suck to be a VMS customer with a problem.   G We are told the new crop of VMS supporters in Bangalore has "virtually  G no IT experience and a about a four week crash course in VMS support".  G It would be funny if it wasn't so sad, but remember, this is HP we are  I talking about, unless you are on the board, nothing is out of bounds. Oh   wait.   G In any case, the outsourcing of jobs continues unabated. The replacing  G of people skilled in their trade with poorly trained people charging a  I bit less continues. The leaks continue. The rapacious greed of the execs  F continues. What changed? The names on the doors of the corner offices.  H Keep the info coming people, the best way to make roaches go away is to I turn on the lights. So far, HP has caught more board members than any of   our sources.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 06:01:29 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India C Message-ID: <1158152489.471519.257320@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G I wonder how this will work with any goverment contracts where there is > a requirement for security cleared people base in the country?  ( All part of hp's race for the bottom :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:18:54 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India ) Message-ID: <op.tfti9sxptte90l@hyrrokkin>   C On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:01:29 -0700, Ian Miller <ijm@uk2.net> wrote:   I > I wonder how this will work with any goverment contracts where there is @ > a requirement for security cleared people base in the country?  $ That is handled by a dedicated team.   > * > All part of hp's race for the bottom :-( > ? Which is odd considering that the margin on VMS business is 20%        --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 06:29:32 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India B Message-ID: <1158154172.621626.75020@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   > > A > Which is odd considering that the margin on VMS business is 20%  > 0 selective blindness by the bean counters I guess   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2006 13:44:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India + Message-ID: <4mqgakF7co3bU1@individual.net>   C In article <1158152489.471519.257320@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, # 	"Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes: I > I wonder how this will work with any goverment contracts where there is @ > a requirement for security cleared people base in the country?  A Probably shoots down the myth that the government is riddled with A all these invisible VMS systems.  Either that or the one guy left @ in this country to handlle these contracts is never going to see his family again. :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:44:50 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 0 Message-ID: <12gg2qp5ont3q9c@news.supernews.com>  I Does anyone think there could be a market for "pay as you go" support for  VMS outside of HP?L Perhaps an Irishman/Brit or American that knows the OS back to front working! for a small company such as ours. 8 I guess COV is probably still the best place for issues.? I wonder how many calls get logged to the call center anyway... J Most people in this business have considerable knowledge of the OS or know+ people through networking on COV that do...      --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   + "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message < news:1158154172.621626.75020@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > > > C > > Which is odd considering that the margin on VMS business is 20%  > > 2 > selective blindness by the bean counters I guess >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:56:28 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 0 Message-ID: <C12D5C1C.252A6%roktsci@comcast.net>  J I had to train two engineers from India who would then train two more whenK they returned to India. I was given two weeks to train them in VMS and then 5 our suite of VMS backup products Total of 8 products.   J It failed miserably, resulting in a loss of over $500,000.00 in annual 80%F margin revenue from software support contracts, in less than 6 months.  G On 9/13/06 4:34 AM, in article 41SNg.2$4i6.1@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk, + "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote:   ) > Anyone from HP want to comment on this?  > 7 > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34342  > % > VMS support goes to India next week  > 2 > HP Leak of the Day (C) This must be embarrassing > : > By Charlie Demerjian: Wednesday 13 September 2006, 09:25H > LUCKY FOR HP that they caught the onerous 'mad leaker', this could getI > embarrassing for it if leaks continued. So, for the HP leak of the day, J > we turn to VMS, layoffs, and other things only a board member would have? > access to this early. I guess they didn't plug all the holes.  > F > It seems that a good chunk of VMS front line support is going to theI > subcontinent to save a meagre few dollars a month. VMS support was, and G > for the next week or so will continue to be, a world class enterprise I > support organization. Some bean counting twit at HP realised they could ; > save a few dollars a year by sending those jobs to India.  > G > Nothing wrong with doing this if you train your staff in India to the G > level of the ones you are replacing, and give them the support, tools J > and ongoing training they need to do the job they are called upon to do.E > HP is notoriously awful at doing this, if it can save a few dollars J > replacing someone with years of experience, it can save more by training
 > them badly.  > G > VMS is not Windows Media Center, customers take it very seriously. HP H > obviously does not, last time I checked, people with years of hands onF > VMS experience were a little thin in Bangalore. In five years or so,I > they will be up to speed, if HP bothers to train them right, until then ; > it will kind of suck to be a VMS customer with a problem.  > H > We are told the new crop of VMS supporters in Bangalore has "virtuallyH > no IT experience and a about a four week crash course in VMS support".H > It would be funny if it wasn't so sad, but remember, this is HP we areJ > talking about, unless you are on the board, nothing is out of bounds. Oh > wait.  > H > In any case, the outsourcing of jobs continues unabated. The replacingH > of people skilled in their trade with poorly trained people charging aJ > bit less continues. The leaks continue. The rapacious greed of the execsH > continues. What changed? The names on the doors of the corner offices. > I > Keep the info coming people, the best way to make roaches go away is to J > turn on the lights. So far, HP has caught more board members than any of > our sources.  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 07:06:14 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India B Message-ID: <1158156373.973479.176550@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   islandco wrote: K > Does anyone think there could be a market for "pay as you go" support for  > VMS outside of HP?  4 Some ex-Digits are trying to provide VMS support e.g   http://www.jomatech.com  http://www.invenate.de  G and there are independant consultants who know VMS and will do paid for  consultancy.  F Do you mean some sort of per-call service? I don't know if there would be enough calls.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:17:09 +0100 / From: "R.A.Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 4 Message-ID: <ee97dl$m6n$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk>   islandco wrote: K > Does anyone think there could be a market for "pay as you go" support for  > VMS outside of HP?  ' Yep.  Exists in the UK (hint, hint ...)   N > Perhaps an Irishman/Brit or American that knows the OS back to front working# > for a small company such as ours.   . Ahem, that sounds a bit racist, n'est-ce pas ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:33:17 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 0 Message-ID: <12gg964663nfg27@news.supernews.com>  > That's what I meant and that is exactly what I thought as well   DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   + "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message < news:1158156373.973479.176550@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >  > islandco wrote: I > > Does anyone think there could be a market for "pay as you go" support  for  > > VMS outside of HP? > 6 > Some ex-Digits are trying to provide VMS support e.g >  > http://www.jomatech.com  > http://www.invenate.de > I > and there are independant consultants who know VMS and will do paid for  > consultancy. > H > Do you mean some sort of per-call service? I don't know if there would > be enough calls. >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 10:47:32 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 3 Message-ID: <ltSE75h+Xfy3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4mqgakF7co3bU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > C > Probably shoots down the myth that the government is riddled with C > all these invisible VMS systems.  Either that or the one guy left B > in this country to handlle these contracts is never going to see > his family again. :-)   C    There's more than one person, working for more than one company. ?    But somehow I don't think HP has abandon all its commitments C    to the US government just because the Inquirer wanted to write a 	    story.   B    More likely some part of the support will move to India.  After@    all you can hire incompetent people cheaper in India than the"    incompetent people in Colorado.  @    But what we really need is the secret code word that replacedE    "elevate" which we used to get competent people when we dealt with     DEC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:51:58 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 0 Message-ID: <C12D772E.252CD%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 9/13/06 7:06 AM, in articleB 1158156373.973479.176550@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote:  L >> Does anyone think there could be a market for "pay as you go" support for >> VMS outside of HP?   G I'm doing that with several of my old customers from when I did the VMS C Helpdesk for my old company. It's proving profitable for me and the 
 customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:34:19 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 0 Message-ID: <12gg980gt7g6h3e@news.supernews.com>  H Well, if you were in India you wouldn't want a brit or american would ya
 !?!?!  ;0)     --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   : "R.A.Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message. news:ee97dl$m6n$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk... > islandco wrote: I > > Does anyone think there could be a market for "pay as you go" support  for  > > VMS outside of HP? > ) > Yep.  Exists in the UK (hint, hint ...)  > H > > Perhaps an Irishman/Brit or American that knows the OS back to front working % > > for a small company such as ours.  > 0 > Ahem, that sounds a bit racist, n'est-ce pas ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:41:49 -0000 & From: Bim Truening <nobody@mixmin.net> Subject: ix/xii punsH Message-ID: <0bd5612caef02542f58caa1a8e5c9a25@anon.mixmaster.mixmin.net>   Skiddy: Company.  3 Reemental: Undead demon who borrow income for fat a 
 disguises.  & Against deliverse: A male of reverage.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 07:11:11 -0700- From: "Brucey" <Bruce.Goller@LCHClearnet.com> 0 Subject: Limiting bytlm within a spawned processC Message-ID: <1158156671.309657.132690@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   E Does anyone know to limit bytlm within a process kicked off using the  command:   $ SPAWN / NOWAIT ....     2 More specifically the exact command's as follows :  + $ SPAWN/NOWAIT/OUT=ICPS$LOG:TCP_TRACE.LOG - A                 NETCU DEBUG/TCP/DIA='ip_addr'/DPN='port'/DATA=128   B We've just upgraded TCP and the new version of DEBUG takes as muchG bytlm as it can. Which then means when the parent process does anything E much, theres nothing left and we get "SYSTEM-F-EXBYTLM, exceeded byte  count quota" errors.     Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 07:13:42 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>4 Subject: Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned processB Message-ID: <1158156822.800090.52720@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>  / What version of TCPWARE on what version of VMS?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:39:18 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>4 Subject: Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process0 Message-ID: <12gg5s3ca3q2s9e@corp.supernews.com>  9 "Brucey" <Bruce.Goller@LCHClearnet.com> wrote in message  = news:1158156671.309657.132690@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... G > Does anyone know to limit bytlm within a process kicked off using the 
 > command: >  > $ SPAWN / NOWAIT ....  >  > 4 > More specifically the exact command's as follows : > - > $ SPAWN/NOWAIT/OUT=ICPS$LOG:TCP_TRACE.LOG - B >                NETCU DEBUG/TCP/DIA='ip_addr'/DPN='port'/DATA=128 > D > We've just upgraded TCP and the new version of DEBUG takes as muchI > bytlm as it can. Which then means when the parent process does anything G > much, theres nothing left and we get "SYSTEM-F-EXBYTLM, exceeded byte  > count quota" errors. >  > 	 > Thanks.  >   F Doesn't a subprocess get only half of the quota of the parent process?M I know that is true with CPU limit at least, and certainly with other quotas   as well but not all.  L If you have 1:00 CPU limit and start a subprocess, it will have a CPU limit F of 30 minutes (and the main process limit is also reduced by half its  original value)    Just a thoughtK If this is confirmed just double your BYTLM for the user and you should be   fine?    Syltrem    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 07:54:55 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com 4 Subject: Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned processC Message-ID: <1158159295.557860.129210@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Syltrem wrote:H > Doesn't a subprocess get only half of the quota of the parent process?N > I know that is true with CPU limit at least, and certainly with other quotas > as well but not all.  A Depends on the quota - Bytlim is a Job level pooled quota, so all 1 processes in a process tree share the same quota.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:49:03 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process0 Message-ID: <C12D767F.252CC%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 9/13/06 7:11 AM, in article? 1158156671.309657.132690@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com, "Brucey" % <Bruce.Goller@LCHClearnet.com> wrote:   G > Does anyone know to limit bytlm within a process kicked off using the 
 > command: >  > $ SPAWN / NOWAIT ....  >  > 4 > More specifically the exact command's as follows : > - > $ SPAWN/NOWAIT/OUT=ICPS$LOG:TCP_TRACE.LOG - C >                 NETCU DEBUG/TCP/DIA='ip_addr'/DPN='port'/DATA=128  > D > We've just upgraded TCP and the new version of DEBUG takes as muchI > bytlm as it can. Which then means when the parent process does anything G > much, theres nothing left and we get "SYSTEM-F-EXBYTLM, exceeded byte  > count quota" errors. >  > 	 > Thanks.  > H Another possibility would be to install the NETCU image as a known image with the EXQUOTA privilege.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:28:35 -0500 + From: brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M) & Subject: Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES1 Message-ID: <06091310283557@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   # Hoff, to answer your questions  ...   N But first, we did a cluster shutdown and startup - this seems to have resolvedN the MP Synch problem (for now)... the cluster had been online 120+ days.  This? leads me in the direction of application and memory management.    > Clustered?  M The servers are clustered using 100 Mbit (private VLAN) and Gigabit (fiber).  ) The Gigabit provides access to our users.    > What sort of I/O device(s)?   & DS20 = 1x FWD 2x SAN 1x 100 1x Gigabit& DS20 = 1x FWD 2x SAN 1x 100 1x Gigabit' ES40 = 1x FWD 2x SAN 1x 100 1x Gigabit    H >    What happens when you temporarily drop from 4 CPUs down to 1 or 2?  > (STOP/CPU P > your way down, for purposes of testing.)  Do you see a big drop-off in MPSYNC?  L Have not done this - I suspect this will terminate jobs currently executing,' correct?  If not, then I will try this.   : The 2 CPU servers (DS20's) do not have the MP synch issue.  I >   Are there differences in settings for the working set, for instance,  
 > or disk A > contention on the system, or such, between/among these systems?   L I need to double check on this - however I have attempted to keep the values the same across the board.    H >   Can you see what are the jobs completing for?  Memory?  Disk?  I/O? 
 > Network?  , It seems that CPU is the most used resource.  O Disk... we have 4x HSG80 pairs (RAID 0+1) that have disks striped with 3 mirror N sets (2 disk mirror set) and then partitioned into (upto) 8 volumes.  AttemptsO were made to spread the heavy I/O across controllers and partition sets filling $ in the gap with moderate to low I/O.   [....partition...] [.....stripe.....] [mirr][mirr][mirr] [d][d][d][d][d][d]  O We are looking into disk I/O contention and we are finding some areas that need  to be addressed.  N Before the cluster shutdown we added additional disk on a new HSG80 controllerH set to help isolate the problems.  We found no noticible impact from theB application layer (FOCUS) however using the BACKUP utility we did.  J This comes back to my path of application issue or memory issue - leans meO towards the application.  This could also be the account that the appliction is  running on as well.   O >    Do you have a disk around (and licenses) where you can try OpenVMS V7.3-2  O > with the configuration?  V7.3 saw changes to off-load I/O Lock 8 activity --  O > this was one of the major locks on earlier releases.  A number of folks have  K > found that getting to V7.3-1 or V7.3-2 -- or more current -- really helps 	 > system  K > and application performance.  V7.2-1H1 added spinlock tracing, so you're  O > unfortunately below that release, too.  V7.3 adds SDA LCK/RLOCK tracing, too.   M Yes, I have the necessary disk and licenses (damn the torpedoes though) to do ' this - so one day soon we can try this.   > Yeah, I tried the SPL and no avail - not for V7.2-1 - figures!  0 >    AMDS can sometimes help spot culprits, too.  ! Will work on that aspect as well.     J >    What I generally end up doing here is looking at what the particular % > applications are doing.  In detail.   L I have noted that when the system is running FOCUS (and only FOCUS multiple L batch jobs usually <10) the MP synch shoots up.  As soon as the applications. finish the MP synch goes away.  Hmmm... FOCUS?               John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:32:02 -0500 + From: brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M) & Subject: Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES1 Message-ID: <06091310320237@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    As a footnote -   < DS20 = 1x FWD 2x SAN 1x 100 1x Gigabit (4-GB memory, 2x 833)< DS20 = 1x FWD 2x SAN 1x 100 1x Gigabit (4-GB memory, 2x 833)< ES40 = 1x FWD 2x SAN 1x 100 1x Gigabit (8-GB memory, 4x 833)  ! Each server has 512-MB VCC cache.      John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:13:07 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-D40757.08130713092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>   In article  H <rdeininger-1209062257540001@dialup-4.233.173.181.dial1.manchester1.leve l3.net>,7  rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:   C > In article <1158100702_12213@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell  > <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote:  >  > J > >The problem is, with no licenses active, the only access is through theE > >console port. I didn't have a null modem cable available, so I was D > >unable to >>> SET CONSOLE SERIAL and use the serial console port.I > >Once I had VMS running on the serial console, I assume I would be able F > >to set the terminal type to VT100 and then EDIT/EDT a file and have, > >hyperterm send the license file contents. > > F > >With no licenses active there is no network and no DEC$WINDOWS. So,& > >nowhere to copy and paste into. 8-) > >  > >Jeff Campbell N8WXS > I > You could simply type a couple of licenses at the console.  I believe 1 H > VMS PAK and 1 network PAK would suffice.  You certainly don't need the9 > whole command file to enable a simple network transfer.  > H > If typing is technology too advanced, you could hire a typist with the > necessary skills.  >  > :-)  > . > Sometimes low-tech solutions work just fine.  G My favourite is to download the licenses onto a working VMS system and  & create a VMS formatted floppy on that.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:27:18 +0200 ( From: Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy / Message-ID: <ee8brm$oqt$01$1@news.t-online.com>    Jeff Campbell schrieb: > Kevin Handy wrote: >  >> Jeff Campbell wrote:  >>I >>> Over the weekend I got my PWS600au up and running again. My hobbiest  C >>> licenses had expired of course 8-) but I had a new set to load.  >>> G >>> How to get the license files from an NT box to the 600? No network, D >>> no serial port access. Both machines have floppies but VMS can'tG >>> natively utilize M$ FAT formatted diskettes anymore than NT can use ! >>> files-11 formatted diskettes.  >> >>* >> No network because of expired licenses? >  > 
 > Correct. >   ' That's the typical situation where that  PAK-nonsense bites you.  Kind of M$-like:  2 "Keyboard not connected, press F1 to continue" ...  2 The solution I once used is to type the DECwindows& and/or the TCPIP PAKs first, manually.; Then configure TCPIP and fetch the rest of the license file < via ftp. Incredible clumsy, when compared to all other OS's." And to be repeated year over year. But I'm sure, somebody* will follow-up and defend that crap again.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 01:38:33 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy B Message-ID: <1158136713.768516.20870@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>  @ better still replace the licences before they expire. Although IG usually forget and have to type in two licences. I have also used MGPCX , to read a floppy written on a windows system5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/mgpcx.zip    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:30:30 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> ' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609131023480.15092@localhost.localdomain>   + On Wed, 13 Sep 2006, Michael Kraemer wrote:   4 > The solution I once used is to type the DECwindows( > and/or the TCPIP PAKs first, manually.= > Then configure TCPIP and fetch the rest of the license file > > via ftp. Incredible clumsy, when compared to all other OS's.$ > And to be repeated year over year.  B That's strange, I don't have to enter new licenses every year.  I  wonder why not.   6 Oh yeah, now I remember.  We paid for our copy of VMS.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 10:38:11 -0700' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> ! Subject: Need to read a TK50 tape B Message-ID: <1158169091.673730.69970@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  C I had someone come by an ask me how they could get data off of what D appears to be a TK50 tape.   We don't have any machines left to read that.   G I wonder where I could find a machine that would read it.  I am located  in Chapel Hill NC.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:51:01 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> & Subject: Re: Personal note - goodbye !+ Message-ID: <4mqgr5F79vokU1@individual.net>   ' On 2006-08-21 18:52, "Guy Peleg" wrote:    > [...]  > F > I'm going to work with Bruce Ellis at BRUDEN. The company is growingE > and I'll be responsible for the business in Europe. BRUDEN provides H > training, services and consulting for VMS and other O/S's (guess whichI > area I'll be working on ;-) so there is a good chance you'll be hearing  > more from me.   
 Good luck!   > [...]   G Your name is mentioned in the "OpenVMS Technical Update Days Agenda" at Z <http://h41267.www4.hp.com/event/documents/de/de/413/docs/632933057328906250_agenda_4.pdf>H (Bad Homburg, Germany, October 6th) for two sessions: "OpenVMS Utilities= Update" (at 9:00) and "The Performance Cook Book" (at 15:45).    ???    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 00:52:59 -0700. From: "Ger_Marsh" <marsh_family@btconnect.com>* Subject: Should SET VC/CHECKSUM be defaultB Message-ID: <1158133979.897105.130320@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  F After more investigation and experimentation, the main suspect is data@ corruption across the FDDI which is allegedly fixed by the SCACP command SET VC/CHECKSUMMING.  C Does anyone have any experience of the use of the command to ensure @ data integrity across the cluster? I've always thought that data0 integrity just happened across the SCS protocol.  @ Since forcing the path to the other system, we have had no other! directory corruption occurrences.   / (Sorry for the verbosity of the first posting!)    Gerald.        Ger_Marsh wrote: > Hello VMSers > H > Firstly, please forgive me my omissions as I do not have access to the > VMS system at present. >  > Here's the scenario: > G > FDDI cluster with two nodes on each of two sites - a few miles apart.  > D > We intend to upgrade the 8200's to GS60's and we installed the newD > CPU's on the remote site without a problem. The remote site can beB > brought into play as a contingency system at short notice so theB > intention was to allow the processors to bed in. (Live apps onlyC > running on another 8200 but MSCP served to remote site via remote 
 > shadowing.)  > G > After replacing the original 4 CPUS with the 6 new ones on the remote A > site, we tested the apps as if it was running live, albeit in a   > controlled and minimal manner. > H > On the following Monday when the apps were brought up for real we wereH > notified of some particularly nasty problems whereby directory lookupsH > failed. During the next two weeks we had only two other occurrences of! > suspected directory corruption.  > ! > Here follows a precis of facts:  > F > 1. The problem hits only directories and large ones (> 1000 blocks);G > 2. On one occasion the problem solved itself - ANAL/DISK showed files 4 > out of order then ran ok without any intervention!D > 3. Replaced HSZ's as they were suspect except problem re-occurred;F > 4. After major housekeeping on directories and moving the MSCP to an3 > SCSI linked DS20, the problem has not reoccurred; G > 5. Attempts to break it by SET PATH with a specific disk and creating : > and manipulating a large directory has failed miserably;3 > 6. No relevant hardware errors detected anywhere!  > E > HP are on the case and have advised to set checksumming on the VC's  > using SCACP. > < > As the cluster has been running for about 10 years withoutF > checksumming, I'd be grateful if someone could explain to me whetherI > implementing the /CHECKSUMMING would make a difference to the integrity I > of the intra-cluster comms and, if so, why haven't we seen it thus far? G > We've seen a couple of checksum errors over the last few weeks. Would ' > they have gone undetected previously?  > B > I have been informed that only CPU 0 would be servicing the MSCPH > traffic on the remote node. I would be very suprised if this processorE > has problems which only manifest themselves as corrupt directories.  > F > If it wasn't for the fact that the new CPUs have been supporting theD > applications and have had a bit of a hammering, I would definitelyG > suspect them. However, I cannot see how a CPU-induced disk corruption + > could fix itself on subsequent ANAL/DISK.  >  > Now for the usual apologies:< > Firstly, sorry about the jabberings - my mind just dumped!? > Secondly, sorry if anyone has trouble reading this due to the ; > abbreviating of ANALYZE to four letters which upsets some  > over-enthusiastic filters! > I > Fairplay for HP, they are bringing in the resources on this one but I'd D > love to know if anyone out there has experienced anything similar. > * > Bye for now and keep that flag a'flying, > 	 > Gerald.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 01:33:37 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>. Subject: Re: Should SET VC/CHECKSUM be defaultC Message-ID: <1158136417.279202.169170@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   G enabling checksumming would allow the detection of previosly undetected @ corruption. I guess any messages found to be corrupt are resent.  : Sounds like you have a network hardware problem somewhere.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 08:18:23 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> . Subject: Re: Should SET VC/CHECKSUM be defaultB Message-ID: <1158160703.420697.80790@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Gerald,   C SCS checksumming can be automatically enabled on ALL VCs by setting > NISCS_PORT_SERV=3 and rebooting all your nodes in the cluster.  B This provides an end-to-end CRC check on PEDRIVER packets and willE catch a corruption of the packet between VMS memory on the sender and E VMS memory on the receiver. Therefore, it will also catch corruption, E which happens between memory and the LAN/FDDI adapter (which adds the G ethernet/FDDI packet checksum). A packet with a bad CRC would then just  be dropped by PEDRIVER.   < I have seen those kinds of problems with DEFPAs in the past.   --- , Volker Halle, Invenate GmbH, OpenVMS Support  # An OpenVMS crashdump analysis a day $ makes the Windows headaches go away.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 06:58:16 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE B Message-ID: <1158155896.195777.53110@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   The command  SET LANGUAGE FRENCH F would be the way to change languages if the language was defined. This# command appears to be undocumented.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:50:51 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: SYS$LANGUAGE 0 Message-ID: <12gg316pp65ef23@corp.supernews.com>   Hello !   % I can't find my OpenVMS Master Index.   # Apparently it is not online either.   C I'm looking for info on how to setup a new language in VMS (define   SYS$LANGUAGE FRENCH)  J I have an application that would like the logical name changed to display M messages in the user's language, but when I change the setting, other things  	 bomb out. L Even the HELP has a problem with that (see below errors) but still provides G a clue to what needs to be done to setup a FRENCH language on my system J There is a logical name table that needs to be created and populated. But L then I can't find where this is explained in the doc so far. So if you have H the reference(s) from the Master Index or know where to find the Master  Index online...    Thanks for your help!    $ helpe/mess %LIB-W-ENGLUSED( %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image ( $1$DGA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]MSGHL
 P$FRENCH.EXE;  -RMS-E-FNF, file not found( %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image ( $1$DGA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]MSGHL
 P$FRENCH.EXE;  -RMS-E-FNF, file not found    %   Facility:     LIB, Library Facility   H   Explanation:  Translation of the logical SYS$LANGUAGE (or any logicalsJ                 depending on the specified language) failed, or the tablesH                 supporting the selected language were not chosen by your6                 system manager. English is being used.  L   User Action:  Examine SYS$LANGUAGE. Verify that the logical name table forH                 the language is built and that all logicals depending onJ                 SYS$LANGUAGE (for example, logicals to supply spellings of9                 months and days of the week) are correct.        --   Syltrem L http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en franais)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:08:15 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE 0 Message-ID: <12gg41rgcddsud6@corp.supernews.com>  , "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message < news:1158155896.195777.53110@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
 > The command  > SET LANGUAGE FRENCH H > would be the way to change languages if the language was defined. This% > command appears to be undocumented.  >   8 Thanks for this, I will certainly save the command, but:   $ set language french I %SET-W-LNGNOTFND, LNM$LANGUAGE_FRENCH not found; SYS$LANGUAGE not changed F %SET-W-LNGNOTFND, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.FRENCH] not found; SYS$HELP not  changed I %SET-W-LNGNOTFND, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMSG.FRENCH] not found; SYS$MESSAGE not   changed   4 I still need to know how to setup a French language.F The errors above gave a new clue: the name of the logical name table !" But I don't know how to create it.   Regards, Syltrem OVMS 7.3-1   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:52:19 +0200 . From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net> Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE 2 Message-ID: <CWUNg.4916$oj5.1901457@news.siol.net>  J You need to define SYS$LANGUAGES to include all languages, that need to be5 defined and then run a SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM   D As for missing MSG and HLB files, you need to create/find them :-( .   Best, Gorazd  5 "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message * news:12gg41rgcddsud6@corp.supernews.com... > - > "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message > > news:1158155896.195777.53110@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... > > The command  > > SET LANGUAGE FRENCH J > > would be the way to change languages if the language was defined. This' > > command appears to be undocumented.  > >  > : > Thanks for this, I will certainly save the command, but: >  > $ set language french K > %SET-W-LNGNOTFND, LNM$LANGUAGE_FRENCH not found; SYS$LANGUAGE not changed G > %SET-W-LNGNOTFND, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSHLP.FRENCH] not found; SYS$HELP not 	 > changed J > %SET-W-LNGNOTFND, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMSG.FRENCH] not found; SYS$MESSAGE not	 > changed  > 6 > I still need to know how to setup a French language.H > The errors above gave a new clue: the name of the logical name table !$ > But I don't know how to create it. > 
 > Regards, > Syltrem OVMS 7.3-1 >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:30:28 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE 0 Message-ID: <12gg8s0ojs01g8d@corp.supernews.com>  : "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net> wrote in message , news:CWUNg.4916$oj5.1901457@news.siol.net...L > You need to define SYS$LANGUAGES to include all languages, that need to be7 > defined and then run a SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM  > F > As for missing MSG and HLB files, you need to create/find them :-( . >  > Best, Gorazd >   5 I just found a 7.3 Master Index and the reference to   SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM  	 Thanks !     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:40:35 -0400 3 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca>  Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE 6 Message-ID: <011901c6d75b$b95fb1d0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>   ----- Original Message -----  * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> , Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:30 AM Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE      > < > "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net> wrote in message . > news:CWUNg.4916$oj5.1901457@news.siol.net...K >> You need to define SYS$LANGUAGES to include all languages, that need to   >> be 8 >> defined and then run a SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM >>G >> As for missing MSG and HLB files, you need to create/find them :-( .  >> >> Best, Gorazd  >> > 7 > I just found a 7.3 Master Index and the reference to    > SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM  K Besides the missing MSG and HLB files you might find that some commands do  J not work once you setup a French Language (actually, the machines I setup K used CANADIAN as the language). IIRC MON CLUSTER, or maybe SHOW CLUSTER no  J longer works (that plant was sold to another company and I no longer have J access to those machines to check which command it was). There were a few K others like HELP/MESSAGE that just bomb when you try them. This was on AXP  L 7.1. I always made sure that my account and the SYSTEM account were left in C English to avoid these problems. You might also find that you have  J procedures that parse out the output from commands that will now show the J date in French and these procedures may fail now. I never heard of any of D the end-users having any problems with the language set to CANADIAN.  K I asked HP (Compaq at that time) if I could get French HLB files and I was  L told that the multi-language software was supposed to be a layered product, 3 but the product was killed before it was completed.    Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca - CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP Reflection PreciseMail    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 05:58:52 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com># Subject: TECO broken on I64 VMS 8.3 + Message-ID: <w6NNg.13732$c22.2719@trnddc07>    TECO broken on I64 VMS 8.3  A It gets a register dump and exits whenever a search fails (and on  various other "errors"....   $ edit/teco/nocom ed.bas *zjht$$ D !       %include "ELFDATYP" %from %library "SYS$SHARE:BASIC$STARLET"B !       %include "ELFDEF" %from %library "SYS$SHARE:BASIC$STARLET"           %include "ELFDATYP.TXT"          %include "ELFDEF.TXT"          end	 *sddidi$$  ?SRH    Search failure "ddidi"A %SYSTEM-F-ROPRAND, reserved operand fault at PC=0000000000000000,  PS=0000001B   G Improperly handled condition, image exit forced by last chance handler. 2      Signal arguments:   Number = 00000000000000032                          Name   = 00000000000004542                                   00000000000000002                                   000000000000001B     Register dump:I    R0  = 0000000000000000  R1  = 000000007B544000  R2  = 000000007AC59940 I    R3  = 000000007B358910  R4  = 000000007FFCF818  R5  = 000000007FFCF8B0 I    R6  = 0000000000000001  R7  = 0000000000000001  R8  = 0000000022070000 I    R9  = 0000000000000000  R10 = 0000000022070000  R11 = 0000000000000000 I    SP  = 000000007AC59810  TP  = 000000007B5321C8  R14 = 000007FDBFFD4220 I    R15 = 000000007B336210  R16 = 0000000000000000  R17 = C00000000000048B I    R18 = 000000007AC59908  R19 = FFFFFFFF800BA430  R20 = 0000000000000000 I    R21 = FFFFF802081E9CB0  R22 = 0000000000000000  R23 = 000000000F778029 I    R24 = 000000000F778049  R25 = 0000000000000001  R26 = 0000000000000001 I    R27 = FFFFFFFF821A3C7C  R28 = 000000000000000F  R29 = 000000007AC599F0 I    R30 = 000000000000000F  R31 = 0000000000000000  PC  = 0000000000000000 I    BSP/STORE = 000007FDBFFD4558 / 000007FDBFFD4260 PSR = 0000101308426030     IIPA = 00000000002BB000I    B0  = 00000000002E13B0  B6  = 0000000000000000  B7  = 00000000002BB010   <      Interrupted Frame RSE Backing Store, Size = 2 registers  1    R32 = 0000000000000000  R33 = 0000000000050004    <ramble mode on>  B (The ELFDEF module in BASIC$STARLET.TLB gets various errors due toD recursive use of %DEFINE, but that's another story.  C is no better,A elfdef.h in sys$library:sys$starlet_c.tlb has a random mixture of B cases in its data type definitions, and C is CaSe-seNSitive.  :-()  A (Why am I looking at this stuff?  Maze of twisty little programs, / all little and mazey and twisty and different.)   D I installed all ECOs (FORRTL, FIBRE_SCSI, and the infamous ADDENDUM,@ which mentioned fixing a problem with translated images), but itB didn't make any difference.  (No tape drive on my brand-new rx2620? from the porting workshop, so I haven't backed out the ADDENDUM 	 ECO yet.)   > I know this isn't an official problem reporting channel, but I> just spent about an hour searching the DSPP site for a problem@ report page rumored to be there.  Didn't find it, but I did find: the place to get a free I64 VMS kit.  Signed up, got email= expecting it was some kind of confirmation, which it was, but > there was also a second new email, which was the daily VMS-SIG9 mailing list digest, which included instructions from Sue 8 about how to sign up for a free I64 VMS kit...  Oh well.   <ramble mode off>            --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:24:32 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> Y Subject: VMS Crash Audit_EventW Compass/Level Handshake - Blue horseshoe loves Andecot St 1 Message-ID: <ee8pjg$esv$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,    Update is: -  ? Good news:- 8.3 Alpha is immune and returns illegal code thingy   K Bad/good news: - 7.2-2 still booms :-( Are you still interested? (My serial I port is at my VAX at the moment so I might even be getting some form of a  dump. Is it worth persuing?    Cheers Richard Maher  > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:ee7dp6$fbd$1@news-02.connect.com.au...  > Hi Steve,  > 6 > Here is the code for the $audit_eventw crash (again) >  > L http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1058548 > L > If you drop the last longword in auth_serv.cob (that's a PIC 9(9) COMP. IfI > you have trouble ask John Reagan :-) from the item list and re-(AT) the I > command file then just $RUN USER_TEST it should crash after you enter a I > Username/Password. As I have said, If it doesn't crash just let me know  and I > I'll try again on my 7.2-2 box. I don't have crash dumps enabled and as  VMS I > Crashes are so common these days I usually do a ^P B when it starts its * > memory dump. Bit like Windows really :-( >  > Regards Richard Maher  > ; > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message & > news:4506ca4d@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > >  > > L > >    I'm operating one bug back right now.  As for the previous bug around > the K > > crash in the $audit_event[w] call, I'm going to need that crashdump I'd J > > requested earlier.  Please post a pointer to an FTP server where I can
 > pull it,G > > or I can provide a pointer to a server where it can be pushed.  (If  you'veF > > already posted the FTP address under one of these "fortune cookie" subject K > > lines, can you point to which one -- the pointer hasn't shown up yet in  > the I > > Google Groups searches, which is unfortunately all I have to find the 	 > threads  > > sometimes.)  > > L > >    Several of us have been looking at this report, and have reviewed the > codeI > > within the system service call -- there looks to be more to the local I > > environment of this particular $audit_event[w] call around this crash  than > can I > > be replicated locally.  If it's junk at the end of the itemlist, we'd  want > toI > > see what junk -- but as stated, we're currently reviewing the OpenVMS  > source code. > > $ > >    And thank you for the report. > >  > > Richard Maher wrote:& > > > Yet more deviant IA64 behaviour? > > > K > > > Is it just me, or does a process on IA64 need both Execute *and* Read  > accessG > > > to a shareable image to be able to simply execute it? NOT LINK OR 	 > LIB$FIS  > > > AGAINST IT, just run it. > > G > >    Image file and directory protections and context and OpenVMS I64  > version, please? >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 07:52:58 -0700/ From: "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> Y Subject: Re: VMS Crash Audit_EventW Compass/Level Handshake - Blue horseshoe loves Andeco C Message-ID: <1158159178.064119.246440@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Richard Maher wrote: > Hi,  >  > Update is: - > A > Good news:- 8.3 Alpha is immune and returns illegal code thingy  > M > Bad/good news: - 7.2-2 still booms :-( Are you still interested? (My serial K > port is at my VAX at the moment so I might even be getting some form of a  > dump. Is it worth persuing?  >  > Cheers Richard Maher >   = Dickie, I wouldn't be so quick to say it is immune. I suspect ; that you were just lucky in the crap that was at the end of = the itemlist... another compile with different other stuff in 4 the code and you could end up with the same problem.   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 05:01:51 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next weekC Message-ID: <1158148911.780200.185260@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   D Conspiracy theory apart and talking for myself and nobody else, mostB front line support in the UK has been off-shored to India already.F I've taken to logging calls electronically on ITRC (was about to writeD AES!) since this makes sure that all of the details are included andE that there can be no mistakes, except for at HP's end or transferring  the job to Phoenix.    Steve    Neil Rieck wrote: L > Conspiracy Theory: Patricia Dunn antics are published to cover up the fact, > that "VMS support goes to India next week" > 7 > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34342  >  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:34:03 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> , Subject: VMS support goes to India next week< Message-ID: <4507eb0e$0$24170$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  K Conspiracy Theory: Patricia Dunn antics are published to cover up the fact  * that "VMS support goes to India next week"  5 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34342     
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 06:28:14 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next weekC Message-ID: <1158154094.627885.172320@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   @ I guess I am not alone in being underwhelmed by Phoenix hardware support.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2006 08:07:49 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next weekB Message-ID: <1158160069.458393.30510@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Ian Miller wrote: B > I guess I am not alone in being underwhelmed by Phoenix hardware
 > support.  F About 4 weeks ago we put in a hardware service call; got the voicemenuE maze (didn't remember "Alphaserver running OpenVMS" verbal shortcut), G got a person with a southern accent who went through the necessities in E about 5 minutes, got the call in, got a callback, and had an engineer A call within 3 hours (on a next day response contract); the actual  onsite did happen next day.   > On Monday I had to place another hardware call for a differentE customer.  No voicemenu after the second level, but a 15 minute hold. C Once I got a person (who was not easy to understand but I could not G place the accent) it took 25 minutes to convince him that yes, in fact, A the tape drive is not working, and yes in fact we know what we're E doing, and yet we did try this, that, and hte other standard recovery 	 method...   F Got my ticket number, then put in the queue for tape hardware support.F 10-15 minute hold.  Got a fellow with a Spanish name (sounded Mexican,F but understandable; I'm certain it was not Indian) and went through itF all again.  Was on and off hold for nearly 40 minutes, then they could not find the contract info...   E It ended up taking over 2 hours on the phone (one continuous call but E forwarded several times) PLUS the intervention of the distributor our C service contracts are handled through to convince them that yes, in 8 fact, that system was under a hardware support contract.  G Is this the wave of the future for hardware support?  I sure hope thats * not where actual VMS support is heading...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:12:59 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next week+ Message-ID: <ee9amb$8qg$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Rich Jordan wrote:  G > It ended up taking over 2 hours on the phone (one continuous call but G > forwarded several times) PLUS the intervention of the distributor our E > service contracts are handled through to convince them that yes, in : > fact, that system was under a hardware support contract.  F If HP service sucks that bad cancel the service contract and take your business elsewhere.    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:58:49 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: You didn't order the Metallic Pea? 9 Message-ID: <P4ydnRrXIMXfAZrYnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rob Brooks wrote: + > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >> Ian Miller wrote:@ >>> A further test on VMS I64 V8.2-1 reveals the same behaviour. >> A bit too terse.  >>A >> Same behavior as on Alpha 8.2, or same behavior as itanic 8.3?  >>. >> What was that claim about "same code base"? > L > I think that we've been quite clear about the fact that virtually anythingH > to do with objects and images isn't common code, given the differencesJ > between ELF/DWARF and the VAX object format (the format used on Alpha isR > an extension of the VAX format).  This includes image activation, installation,  > debugging, etc . . . >   H Yes, you have, and I was way too general in that comment.  Sorry.  What G I was thinking is that one might expect the file protections to be the  9 same in both environments.  Really expressed that poorly.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.503 ************************                                                                                                misc/decus/info-vax/2004_262.txt (131604 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  130175 (8) bytes transferred. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,156) <<< RETR 2004_266.txt Z >>> 150 ASCII retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/2004_266.txt (147208 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  145110 (8) bytes transferred. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151