1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 14 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 505       Contents: Re: Accounting Questions Re: Accounting Questions3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode A Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL  FTP strangeness  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure & Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& RE: HP announces new Integrity servers( Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3?0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India+ Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process < Re: MOUNT quietly ignores JTQUOTA exhausted (OpenVMS V7.3-2)< Re: MOUNT quietly ignores JTQUOTA exhausted (OpenVMS V7.3-2)P Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES  Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES  Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopyP Re: Remote Consoles, Disaster Tolerance (was: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy) mc' Re: VMS support goes to India next week ' Re: VMS support goes to India next week ' Re: VMS support goes to India next week   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:54:22 +0200 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>! Subject: Re: Accounting Questions 5 Message-ID: <1158227667.514319@proxy.dienste.wien.at>    Steve Thompsom:   J > You could always define the ACCOUNTNG mailbox and then manage the actual > accounting file yourself.   K Do you mean that I should create a mailbox and having a system-wide logical H ACCOUNTNG pointing to it? And that a daemon is listening to this mailbox5 and writes each record out as soon as it is received?   G (Is redirecting ACCOUNTNG to a non-file destination supported from HP?)   J > This way you can avoid the delay while waiting for the job controller to flush buffers.  G Well, if the job controller itself delays the write operations (and I'd  guess that this + is the point), your approach wouldn't help.   C I would really appreciate a thing like a system logical (defined in  SYLOGICALS)    JBC$OUTPUT_RATE   I which can be set to a VMS delta time (which includes "0 ::" for immediate G output, including flushing) to define the rate at which the job control  writes to the accounting file.    How about this suggestion?   Greetings, Ferry   --   Ing Ferry Bolhar  Magistrat der Stadt Wien - MA 14 A-1010 Wien  E-Mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:15:09 GMT ' From: Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> ! Subject: Re: Accounting Questions B Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0609141109130.9683@honker.vgersoft.com>  ( On Thu, 14 Sep 2006, Ferry Bolhar wrote:   > Steve Thompsom:  > L > > You could always define the ACCOUNTNG mailbox and then manage the actual > > accounting file yourself.  > M > Do you mean that I should create a mailbox and having a system-wide logical J > ACCOUNTNG pointing to it? And that a daemon is listening to this mailbox7 > and writes each record out as soon as it is received?   H Yes: create the mailbox in your deamon and point the system-wide logicalI name ACCOUNTNG to it, and then do either a SET ACCOUNTING/NEW_FILE or the H equivalent function in code. The latter gets the job controller to closeJ the current file and start sending to the mailbox. Or you can deassign theH logical name, do SET ACCOUNTING/NEW_FILE again and delete the mailbox to0 turn it off and start using the file once again.  I > (Is redirecting ACCOUNTNG to a non-file destination supported from HP?)   ) I don't know the answer to this question.   L > > This way you can avoid the delay while waiting for the job controller to > flush buffers. > I > Well, if the job controller itself delays the write operations (and I'd = > guess that this is the point), your approach wouldn't help.   F That's a good point. It is quite a while since I last used the mailboxH approach, but I don't remember there being any significant delays. But IH always had image accounting turned on (the latter may do it for you even$ without using the mailbox approach).   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:27:43 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> < Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode1 Message-ID: <eebl6c$k0r$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi All,   G > Respectfully, the bad news here is that there is (still) no crashdump L > available.  That the OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 system still crashes is not what I'd C > like to have happen, but the reliable nature of the crash in this 
 particular" > environment can be quite useful.  K My appologies to Steve and others 'cos I can assure you that noone was more J surprised than me when I looked at my Dev box and found SYSGEN>DUMPBUG set to 1!   L Anyway the CLUE stuff is below and is identifying nsa$size_nsab. Anyone withK the source code who had checked (me for one) who have flagged this service, G if for no other reason than the comments discussing leaving the Persona J stuff out of the validation list and possible Kernel mode ACCVIOs. When isL an Item Code Foreign and bypasses some checks? When does that WORD sized LenL blow out? what if the LEN is greater than a page and I hope Bliss is probing everything!     >    The crashdump is necessary.  J I think not in this case, but let us move on. A BUGCHECK SSRVEXCEEPT,FATALH is surely a programmatically triggered logic trap? It's not an ACCVIO orJ dodgy address, surely someone has said "Shit!! We shouldn't get here!" and bugchecked?   + >    The COBOL replicator is the easy part,   L I submit to the viewers that it is the *whole* part! I (without having spentH the time or been able to analyze the appropriate addresses) contend thatH this bug was reproduceable with *any* VMS box that was minus a couple ofL patches. One as late as Jan this year. The fact that noone could be arsed toG restore an old(ish) system disk and run a perfectly good repoducer, I'm 0 sure, says more about you than it does about me.  # > and John R., myself and two other > > engineers are looking at this right now, and reviewing code.  G Shit hot! Isn't it? Needs tightening up (turning off ASTs for one until K mesage has gone) but it's certainly a talking point. I look forward to your L PDD example with similar eagerness! (Why do all current VMS utilities create2 and destroy a mailbox each time? How embarassing!)  > > code working, and versions of it in several other languages.  H Yep! That's where I'd allocate VMS resources. Let's reproduce the bug inJ five different languages 'cos we've got nothin' to do and all day to do it in!   L >    What we are unable to determine what random junk is on the stack in the  I What random junk on what stack? We pass Item Lists "By Reference" where I H come from. What do *you* (and the people I currently work with) think BY REFERENCE means?  3 > since -- as I'm sure you're aware -- it's not the L > missing terminator that's the issue here, it's the cruft that's out on the stack  > that's critical.  J Me? I'm not "aware" of anything! Which is why I ask questions to ascertainJ *FACTS*! (Hopefully from people with more knowledge than me) I usually putG up theories and when they stop being knocked down then that's often the  answer.   G I submit that the item list to $audit_event does not terminate until it K finds the first zero longword in the right place. I further submit that the A first longword is the terminator for the UAI item list. Therefore I *EVERYTHING* (including the ASCII "St.Peter blah blah" is processed as an L item list buy nsa$size_thing. That is, the Audit_List is passed By ReferenceK and processed in-situ and not on any stack. COBOL with the default /NOALIGN I qualifier creates a quadword aligned psect with padding to multiples of 8 L between 01 level items. PREDICTABLE, REPEATABLE REPRODUCABLE and what's moreI fucking SENSIBLE memory allocation patterns. If ***COMPILE-TIME*** memory J allocation is just a too wayout there of a concept for C, BASIC and Pascal2 programmers to cope with then I don't give a shit!  L >    What's missing from the testing is the specific data pattern after your > itemlist --   K No! It's there; all the way down to the end of the uai item list. What does  "St.P" translate to?  A > we're quite reliably seeing the expected itemlist errors in our  > tests.  L What happens when you go back to the old versions of nsa$blah? What happened on your 5.5 system?   L 1) I asked (no begged) for an answer if my UWSS initialization routines were# in EXEC mode on Alpha for two days!  And there was/is silenceH 2) I asked why an Exec i/o on an Exec mode mailbox channel needed SYSPRV And there was/is silenceL 3) I asked why I need Read access to any shareable image on IA64 just to run it And there was/is silenceJ 4) I've asked for numerous things on numerous occasions here and elsewhere) And the silence told me to go fuck myself   I And now you bust my balls 'cos you got 4 people on the HP gravy train you 9 can't solve a simple problem with a guranteed reproducer?   B Just as well I'm Big enough to put VMS's well being ahead of petty vendictiveness.   " Regards Richard (Cinderella) Maher  ' OpenVMS (TM) Alpha system dump analyzer " ...analyzing a full memory dump...  % Dump taken on 13-SEP-2006 19:16:34.87 / SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception    SDA> clue crash    Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------* Crash Time:        13-SEP-2006 19:16:34.87B Bugcheck Type:     SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception VMS Version:       V7.2-2  Current Process:   St_Peter  Current Image:    AUTH_SERV.EXE = Failing PC:        FFFFFFFF.801C0758    NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00218 $ Failing PS:        10000000.00000003H Module:            SECURITY    (Link Date/Time: 28-MAR-2002 09:09:47.13) Offset:            0000E758   * Boot Time:          6-SEP-2006 13:38:19.00* System Uptime:               7 05:38:15.87 Crash/Primary CPU: 00/00 System/CPU Type:   0D02 ' Pagesize:          8 KByte (8192 bytes) < Physical Memory:   128 MByte (16384 PFNs, contiguous memory)  Dumpfile Pagelets: 262144 blocks   Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------/ Dump Flags:        olddump,writecomp,errlogcomp & Dump Type:         raw,full,shared_mem) EXE$GL_FLAGS:      poolpging,init,bugdump 7 Paging Files:      1 Pagefile and 0 Swapfiles installed    Stack Pointers: K KSP = 00000000.7FFA1A18   ESP = 00000000.7FFA6000   SSP = 00000000.7FFAC100  USP = 00000000.7AF159C0    General Registers:K R0  = 00000000.0000000C   R1  = 00000000.7FFA1C38   R2  = FFFFFFFF.80C129C0 K R3  = 00000000.0000FFFF   R4  = 00000000.00000003   R5  = FFFFFFFF.860E46F8 K R6  = 00000000.00020168   R7  = 00000000.7FFA1E70   R8  = 00000000.0000502E K R9  = 00000000.7FFA1EA8   R10 = 00000000.00000000   R11 = 00000000.7FFA1EB0 K R12 = 00000000.00000000   R13 = 00000000.0000000C   R14 = 00000000.00007453 K R15 = 00000000.72657465   R16 = 00000000.000003C4   R17 = 00000000.7FFA1AC0 K R18 = 00000000.00000020   R19 = 00000000.502E7453   R20 = 00000000.00000000 K R21 = 00000000.7FFA1EB0   R22 = 00000000.7FFF03C8   R23 = 00000000.7FFF0040 K R24 = 00000000.7FFF0020   AI  = 00000000.00000000   RA  = FFFFFFFF.86005E00    Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------K PV  = FFFFFFFF.860B7750   R28 = 00000000.000005AC   FP  = 00000000.7FFA1A20 1 PC  = FFFFFFFF.80093284   PS  = 18000000.00000000    Exception Frame:K R2  = 00000000.00000000   R3  = 00000000.0000FFFF   R4  = 00000000.00000003 K R5  = FFFFFFFF.860E46F8   R6  = 00000000.00020168   R7  = 00000000.7FFA1E70 1 PC  = FFFFFFFF.801C0758   PS  = 10000000.00000003   = Signal Array:                            64-bit Signal Array: K Arg Count    = 00000005                  Arg Count      =          00000005 K Condition    = 0000000C                  Condition      = 00000000.0000000C K Argument #2  = 00000000                  Argument #2    = 00000000.00000000 K Argument #3  = 8610D500                  Argument #3    = FFFFFFFF.8610D500 K Argument #4  = 801C0758                  Argument #4    = FFFFFFFF.801C0758 K Argument #5  = 00000003                  Argument #5    = 10000000.00000003    Mechanism Array:K Arguments    = 0000002C                  Establisher FP = 00000000.7AF159C0 K Flags        = 00000001                  Exception FP   = 00000000.7FFA1C80    Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------K Depth        = FFFFFFFD                  Signal Array   = 00000000.7FFA1C38 K Handler Data = 00000000.80DBFB80         Signal64 Array = 00000000.7FFA1C50 K R0  = 00000000.00000001   R1  = 00000000.502E7453   R16 = FFFFFFFF.8610D500 K R17 = 00000000.0000000F   R18 = 00000000.00000003   R19 = 00000000.502E7453 K R20 = 00000000.00000000   R21 = 00000000.7FFA1EB0   R22 = 00000000.00000090 K R23 = 00000000.502E7453   R24 = 00000000.000201FC   R25 = 00000000.00000000 K R26 = FFFFFFFF.80045C78   R27 = 00000000.00000000   R28 = FFFFFFFF.801C07B0    System Registers: K Page Table Base Register (PTBR)                           00000000.00003182 K Processor Base Register (PRBR)                            FFFFFFFF.80C12000 K Privileged Context Block Base (PCBB)                      00000000.077E0080 K System Control Block Base (SCBB)                          00000000.000001D3 K Software Interrupt Summary Register (SISR)                00000000.00000000 K Address Space Number (ASN)                                00000000.00000012 K AST Summary / AST Enable (ASTSR_ASTEN)                    00000000.0000000E K Floating-Point Enable (FEN)                               00000000.00000001 K Interrupt Priority Level (IPL)                            00000000.00000000 K Machine Check Error Summary (MCES)                        00000000.00000000    Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------K Virtual Page Table Base Register (VPTB)                   FFFFFFFC.00000000    Crashdump Summary Information:  ----------------------------- Failing Instruction:9 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00218:          LDQ             R16,(R16)   * Instruction Stream (last 20 instructions):9 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001C8:          ADDQ            R6,R23,R1 < NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001CC:          ADDQ            R23,#X04,R247 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001D0:          LDL             R1,(R1) < NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001D4:          ADDQ            R23,#X02,R23: NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001D8:          ADDQ            R6,R23,R23: NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001DC:          ADDQ            R6,R24,R249 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001E0:          LDL             R15,(R24) ? NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001E4:          LDL             R23,#XFFFE(R23) ; NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001E8:          ZAPNOT          R1,#X03,R14 ; NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001EC:          EXTWL           R23,#X02,R8 ; NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001F0:          SRL             R8,#X0F,R25 > NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001F4:          LDAH            R3,#X0001(R31)= NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001F8:          LDA             R3,#XFFFF(R3) < NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+001FC:          AND             R25,#X01,R108 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00200:          CMPEQ           R8,R3,R2   Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------; NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00204:          BNE             R2,#X0000E0 < NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00208:          BNE             R10,#X00000C> NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+0020C:          LDQ             R16,#XFFC8(R5)? NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00210:          LDA             R16,#XF750(R16) : NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00214:          S8ADDQ          R8,R16,R169 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00218:          LDQ             R16,(R16) < NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+0021C:          EXTWL           R16,#X02,R169 NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00220:          CMPEQ           R16,R3,R3 ; NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00224:          BNE             R3,#X0000BC ? NSA$SIZE_NSAB_C+00228:          LDA             R18,#X0117(R31)  SDA>  9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:4508076e@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Richard Maher wrote: >  > > Update is: - > > C > > Good news:- 8.3 Alpha is immune and returns illegal code thingy  > > H > > Bad/good news: - 7.2-2 still booms :-( Are you still interested? (My serialK > > port is at my VAX at the moment so I might even be getting some form of  a  > > dump. Is it worth persuing?  > J >    Respectfully, the bad news here is that there is (still) no crashdumpL > available.  That the OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 system still crashes is not what I'd C > like to have happen, but the reliable nature of the crash in this 
 particular" > environment can be quite useful. >   >    The crashdump is necessary. > G >    The COBOL replicator is the easy part, and John R., myself and two  other K > engineers are looking at this right now, and reviewing code.  We have the  COBOL > > code working, and versions of it in several other languages. > L >    What we are unable to determine what random junk is on the stack in theL > context of your environment, since -- as I'm sure you're aware -- it's not the L > missing terminator that's the issue here, it's the cruft that's out on the stack  > that's critical. > L >    What's missing from the testing is the specific data pattern after yourI > itemlist -- we're quite reliably seeing the expected itemlist errors in  our G > tests.  What's missing is the information from the particular failing  process K > context; run-time data and run-time context that is expected to be stored  withinI > the crashdump as the process will be the current process when the crash  occurs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:44:35 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>< Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode, Message-ID: <eebpsk$h52$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  ? "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message  + news:eebl6c$k0r$1@news-02.connect.com.au...   L > I think not in this case, but let us move on. A BUGCHECK SSRVEXCEEPT,FATALJ > is surely a programmatically triggered logic trap? It's not an ACCVIO or > dodgy address   N Most of this discussion has been way above my head but surely a condition codeG of C is exactly an ACCVIO? And an address of 8610D500 distinctly dodgy.   ? > Signal Array:                            64-bit Signal Array: M > Arg Count    = 00000005                  Arg Count      =          00000005 M > Condition    = 0000000C                  Condition      = 00000000.0000000C M > Argument #2  = 00000000                  Argument #2    = 00000000.00000000 M > Argument #3  = 8610D500                  Argument #3    = FFFFFFFF.8610D500 M > Argument #4  = 801C0758                  Argument #4    = FFFFFFFF.801C0758    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 05:06:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> J Subject: Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL, Message-ID: <45091BA9.DB0A362E@teksavvy.com>   OK, an update.  I I found the FAQ item on usiong LIB$SIGNAL to execute some DEBUG commands.   G However, this does not seem to make a difference, even if the shareable  image is linked with /DEBUG   H (to recap: a MAIL foreign transport works when invoked interactively via8 $MAIL  and via DECWINDOWS MAIL, but when involked by theG TCPIP/$SMTP_SYMBIONT image ( delivering to usertchocolate.com with user D having a forward to "myforeign%blabla"), the SMTO symbiont signals a protection violation.   G When used with MAIL or DECW$MAIL, the LIB$SIGNAL(SS$_DEBUG,1,"string")    E (where string is a counted string (first byte is length) containing a  debugger command) results in:   D %SYSTEM-F-DEBUG, command interporeter debugger signal at PC=00000001= PSL=002C1C08  and then it exits from MAIL and back to $ sign.   G But when executed by the symbiont, it still does a protection violation   : %SYSTEM-F_ACCVIO, access violation reason mask=00, virtual+ address=00384E76, PC=001C02D3, PSL=03C00000   @ The symbiont handles this well (issues a postmaster non deliveryF notification containing the above as the reason it could not deliver).F Note that the LIB$SIGNAL is basically the first thing that executes in the routine.  = If, while liking, I remove the universal symbol definition of G MAIL$PROTOCOL (the entry point), interactive issues a message about LIB 6 not finding something in a tree. (probably refering toE LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL). But when going through the symbiont, it still  issues a simple ACCVIO message.     E I have looked at other foreign transports on my system (this is VAX).   > MRGATE% has an entry mask for MAIL$PROTOCOL of R2,R3,R4,R5,R11  8 SMTP% has an entry mask for MAIL$PROTOCOL of R2,R3,R4,R5  S MyTRANSPORT% has an entry mask for MAIL$PROTOCOL of R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11     H The routine MAIL$PROTOCOL is written in C and ist formal declaration ahsG 2 arguments. I then use vaarg to extract a variable number of arguments : based on the value of the function code (second argument).   The sharable is created with4 LINK/SHARE/NOTRACEBACK mytransport.obj,sys$input/opt  UNIVERSAL=MAIL$C_PROT_MAJOR  UNIVERSAL=MAIL$C_PROT_MINOR  UNIVERSAL=MAIL$PROTOCOL    E Now, this works well with interactive MAIL, DECW$MAIL and also DECNET F MAIL (mail coming from another node). But fails with the SMTP SYMBIONTM which I would *assume* uses callable mail like DECW$MAIL to deliver messages.     @ Since the foreign mail protocol is officially documented (in itsE unofficial documentation) as using LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL when opening H the shareable image, then having a transfer vector in a precise location is not important, correct ?     D Could the different entry mask of my routine make a difference ? (it@ expecting more arguments than is being given by the symbiont ?)   	 ---------     
 QUESTIONS:  G Is there any way to run a symbiont interactively ? I'd like to do a SET H WATCH FILE to ensure it actually gets to the shareable image. And having a SYS$OUTPUT might        D When the symbiont calls my program, are there any C "run time" stuffD that automatically gets executed (such as initialising a SYS$OUTPUT,F SYS$ERROR etc which doN't exist in the symbiont environment) ? Or does= that only get done when there is a routine called "main" in a  compilation unit ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:27:50 +1000 # From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate>  Subject: FTP strangeness0 Message-ID: <12gif5ogqhlo7b2@corp.supernews.com>   Hi All  L Problem using SmartFTP uploading directories to to my server, Compaq TCP/IP G Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 on a AlphaServer DS10L 466 MHz  I running OpenVMS V7.2-2.  When I try to upload a directory with files and  M sub-directories from Windows to the server, the initial directory is created  0 but no sub-directories or files are transferred.   Log extract....    [23:41:48] LIST + [23:41:48] 150 Opening data connection for  9 HT_ROOT:[000000.FOURPROVINCES]*.*;* (192.168.100.14,4241)  [23:41:48] 550 file not found   G SmartFTP support say that the valid reply codes for a LIST command are:  LIST 125, 150 226, 250
 425, 426, 451  450  500, 501, 502, 421, 530   M Reference: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc959.html  We decided not to implement  L a hard-coded work around as the FTP server is clearly not RFC 959 compliant.    I So, are the TCP/IP services *really* not RFC 959 compliant?  Why does it  ) return 550 and can I change this somehow?   K Or, is there a nice, *free*, graphical windows-based client I can use?  If  ( it ran on XPx64 that would be nice too!!   TIA    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:31:26 +0300 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>  Subject: Re: help desk procedure& Message-ID: <45093D8E.4EA484E8@hp.com>   contracer11@gmail.com wrote: >  > Jeff Cameron wrote: # > > On 9/12/06 10:16 PM, in article P > > 1158124566.792611.47050@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com, "contracer11@gmail.com"" > > <contracer11@gmail.com> wrote: > > H > > > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data and > > > where I can find this > > > > data using a search command (like a help desk database).+ > > > Is there any procedure already made ?  > > > 
 > > > Thanks.  > > > M > > I developed a set of command procedures that composed, emailed, saved and N > > searched SPR's (Software Problem Reports) for a software call desk. If youL > > are interested it will take a few days to dig up and send to you. I even* > > have a Word document on how to use it. > >  > > Jeff Cameron > B > I made a DCL command procedure where when I put a string to find > . > it show me all string ocurrences, like this: > ) > $ search/win=(8,8) help.txt "``string`"  > E > but how could I make a procedure to show me all "string" ocurrences  > 9 > separated by a "====================" line ? Like this:  >  > $ @find sarbanes > 4 > ================================================== > 8 > To see Sarbanes laws read dka2:[documents]sarbanes.txt > 4 > ================================================== > B > Sarbanes-Oxley provides a complete cross-referenced index of SEC	 > filers, D > audit firms, offices, CPAs, services, fees, compliance/enforcement	 > actions , > and other critical disclosure information. > 4 > ================================================== >  > $  > 
 > Thanks !  + following (rather dirty) code works for me: H Looks in one of two text files with paragraphs separated by blank lines.    + -------------->start code>-----------------  $ !   L O O K U P . C O M  $ !-------------------------: $ ! Command procedure to run a (fairly) intelligent search $ ! of text data files.  $ !  $ lookup_ver = f$verif(0) 2 $ line_len = f$getdvi( "SYS$OUTPUT:","DEVBUFSIZ" )* $ if line_len .gt. 132 then line_len = 132 $ if line_len .lt. 80  $ then $       write sys$output "" : $       write sys$output "Terminal width is ''line_len' -": $       write sys$output " Must be at least 80. Aborting." $       write sys$output "" ) $       exit (1 .or. f$verif(lookup_ver))  $ endif  $ line_len = line_len - 4  $! $ quote_replace = "~~" $ ! ! $ mess_stat =  f$envir("MESSAGE") $ $ if f$getdvi( "SYS$OUTPUT", "TRM" ) $ then4 $       wrap_stat = f$getdvi("SYS$OUTPUT","TT_WRAP") $ else $       wrap_stat = "FALSE"  $ endif % $! if p2 .eqs. "DEBUG" then set verif  $ say := write sys$output  $ proc = f$envir("PROCEDURE") ) $ proc = proc - f$parse(proc,,,"VERSION") @ $ where = f$parse(proc,,,"DEVICE") + f$parse(proc,,,"DIRECTORY") $ !  $ file = "''where'LOOKUP.DAT" 7 $ usr = f$edit( f$getjpi("","USERNAME"),"UPCASE,TRIM" ) % $ file1 = "''where'''usr'_LOOKUP.DAT"  $ file_count = 0 $ brack = " )" $ !  $ !  $! BOLD = "<B>"  $! NORMAL = "</B>" $ ESC[0,8] = 27  $ BOLD =  "''ESC'[1m" . $ if ( f$getdvi( "SYS$OUTPUT", "TRM" ) .and. --         f$getdvi("SYS$OUTPUT","TT_REGIS") ) - )                 then BOLD  = "''ESC'[31m"  $ NORMAL =  "''ESC'[0m"  $ ! 
 $ check_file:  $ !  $ if f$sear("''file'") .eqs. ""  $ then $       say "No ''file' found!"  $       if file_count .eq. 0 $       then $               file = file1+ $               file_count = file_count + 1  $               goto check_file  $       else $               goto endit
 $       endif  $ endif  $ !  $ on Control_Y then goto cont_Y  $ subj = p1  $ !  $ask:  $ !  $ if subj .eqs. "" $ then> $       read/prompt="Lookup what >"/end=endit sys$command subj $       goto ask $ endif  $ !  $ if subj .eqs. "*"  $ then& $       def/user sys$input sys$command/ $       cdt = f$file_attrib( "''file';","CDT" )  $       edt 'file'3 $       new_cdt = f$file_attrib( "''file';","CDT" ) ( $       if (new_cdt .eqs. cdt) then exit" $       copy/contig 'file' 'file'; $       purge/keep=3 'file'  $       set messag'mess_stat' + $       if wrap_stat then set terminal/wrap ? $       f_nam = f$parse(file,,,"NAME") + f$parse(file,,,"TYPE")  $       exit $ endif  $ !  $ if subj .eqs. "+"  $ then0 $       cdt = f$file_attrib( "''file1';","CDT" )& $       def/user sys$input sys$command $       edt 'file1' 3 $       new_cdt = f$file_attrib( "''file';","CDT" ) % $       if (new_cdt .nes. cdt) then - ,                 copy/contig 'file1' 'file1'; $       purge/keep=2 'file1' $       set messag'mess_stat' + $       if wrap_stat then set terminal/wrap  $!      now = f$time()$ $!      now = f$element( 0,".",now ) $       exit $ endif  $ !  $ !  $ if subj .eqs. "" $ then+ $       if wrap_stat then set terminal/wrap  $       exit $ endif  $ !  $ count = 0  $ subj1 = f$edit(subj,"UPCASE")  $ !  $ start: $ set terminal/nowrap  $ !  $ close/nolog lookup_data  $! say "Opening ''file'"* $ open/read/error=endit lookup_data 'file' $! write sys$output "<PRE>"  $ !  $loop1:  $ line_count = 0 $ check_count = 0  $! quote_flag = "F"  $ !  $ loop2: $ ! ! $ read/end=endit lookup_data line  $ UQ_test1 = ""  $ ! 
 $ UQ_loop: $ !  $ t = f$locate( """", line ) $ l = f$length(line) $ if (t .ge. l) .or. (l .lt. 1)  $ then" $       ret_line = UQ_test1 + line $       goto UQ_end_loop $ endif  $ !  $! quote_flag = "T" 9 $ UQ_test1 = UQ_test1 + f$extra(0,t,line) + quote_replace  $ line = f$extra(t+1,99,line)  $ goto UQ_loop $ !  $ UQ_end_loop: $ line_count = line_count + 1  $ line_'line_count' = ret_line9 $ if f$edit(ret_line,"COLLAPSE") .eqs. "" then goto check  $ !  $ goto loop2 $ !  $ check: $ check_count = check_count + 1  $ test = line_'check_count' 5 $ if f$edit(test,"COLLAPSE") .eqs. "" then goto loop1  $ ! ; $ if f$locate("''subj1'",f$edit( "''test'","UPCASE" )) .lt.  f$length("''test'")  $ then $       goto printit $ endif  $ goto check $ ! 
 $ printit: $ !  $ count = count + 1  $ add_len == 0& $ call bold_it "''line_1'"   "''subj'" $ x = line_len + add_len* $ pattern = "!2SL''brack'!''x'AS''NORMAL'" $ call Fix3 / $ write sys$output f$fao("''pattern'",count,r3)  $ print_count = 1  $ !  $ printit_loop:  $ !  $ add_len == 0 $ print_count = print_count + 1 3 $ if f$edit(line_'print_count',"COLLAPSE") .nes. ""  $ then  $       tmp = line_'print_count'' $       call bold_it "''tmp'" "''subj'"  $       x = line_len + add_len( $       pattern = "    !''x'AS''NORMAL'" $       call Fix3 / $       write sys$output f$fao("''pattern'",r3)  $       goto printit_loop  $ endif  $ write sys$output "  "  $ write sys$output "  "  $! write sys$output "</PRE>" $! write sys$output "<HR><BR>" $! write sys$output "<PRE>"  $ goto loop1 $ !  $endit:  $ !  $ !  $ close/nolog lookup_data  $ if file_count .eq. 0 $ then# $       file_count = file_count + 1  $       file = file1 $       brack = "+)"5 $       if f$sear("''file'") .nes. "" then goto start  $ endif @ $ if count .eq. 0 then write sys$output "...''subj' not found... $ set messag'mess_stat' % $ if wrap_stat then set terminal/wrap 
 $ set noon
 $ add_len = 0  $ add_len == 0 $ dele/sym        add_len  $ dele/sym/global add_len = $! if f$type(ret_line) .nes. "" then dele/sym/global ret_line  $! write sys$output "</PRE>"# $ exit (1 .or. f$verif(lookup_ver))    $cont_Y: $ file_count = 99  $ goto endit" $!-------------------------------- $ !  $Bold_it: Subroutine $ b_test1 = "" $ b_test = "''p1'" $ !  $ elem = f$edit(p2,"UPCASE") $ elem1 = "''p2'"  $ l1 = f$leng(elem)  $ ! 
 $ b_loop4: $ ! E $ if (f$locate(elem,f$edit(b_test,"UPCASE")) .ge. f$length(b_test)) - &         .or. (f$length(b_test) .lt. 1) $ then! $       b_test = b_test1 + b_test  $       goto b_end_loop4 $ endif , $ t = f$locate(elem,f$edit(b_test,"UPCASE"))4 $ b_test1 = b_test1 + f$extra(0,t,b_test) + BOLD + -/                 f$extract(t,l1,b_test) + NORMAL " $ b_test = f$extra(t+l1,99,b_test)2 $ add_len == add_len + f$len(BOLD) + f$len(NORMAL) $ goto b_loop4 $ !  $ b_end_loop4: $ !  $ r3  == "''b_test'" $ exit $ endSubroutine  $ !  $ !  $! $Fix3: Subroutine  $ RQ_line = "''r3'"  $ RQ_1 = ""  $ RQ_2 = ""  $ RQ_3 = ""  $ RQ_4 = ""  $ RQ_5 = ""  $ i = 1  $ ! 
 $ RQ_loop: $ ! 2 $ t = f$locate( "''quote_replace'", "''RQ_line'" ) $ l = f$length("''RQ_line'") $ if (t .ge. l) .or. (l .lt. 1)  $ then $       goto RQ_end_loop $ endif  $ ! / $ RQ_'i = f$extract( 0,t, "''RQ_line'" ) + """" 	 $ i = i+1 + $ RQ_line = f$extract(t+2,99,"''RQ_line'" )  $!! sho sym RQ_* $ goto RQ_loop $ !  $ RQ_end_loop: $!! sho sym RQ_*2 $ r3 == RQ_1 + RQ_2 + RQ_3 + RQ_4 + RQ_5 + RQ_line $ exit $ endSubroutine  $!* -----------------<end code>--------------0 --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 06:14:39 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com   Subject: Re: help desk procedureC Message-ID: <1158239679.338548.168260@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman escreveu:   > contracer11@gmail.com wrote:F > > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data andG > > where I can find this data using a search command (like a help desk 4 > > database). Is there any procedure already made ? >  >    Hello Shiva,  > 1 >    Please: Terse questions beget terse answers.  > L >    Please back up about 500 to 1000 meters, and tell us what specific pro= blem(s) L > you are trying to (re)solve here, what software you already have access t= o (eg:L > databases, OpenVMS version(s) and platform(s), whether this is to be a wi= ndowing L > system application or character cell or web-based servers, etc), what sca= le of L > storage is likely involved and what scale of information might be include= d, who> > the intended clients might be, and what the budget might be. > L >    On zero information and as a first and potentially wild guess, my first. > suggestions would be Bugzilla and/or a Wiki. > L >    Perl and PHP services and support tools -- stuff built on these langua= ges and L > tools -- should arrive quite easily on OpenVMS, for instance, if there ar= e not  > already packages available.  > L >    At another interpretation of your (unfortunately terse) question, assu= mingL > it's just you maintaining that's looking to maintain information for your= self, a L > text file and the SEARCH command can be pressed into service -- I've cert= ainly L > used this solution for myself, as have many other folks.  The extreme and=  quaint L > and massively low-tech solution of a paper-based notebook also works.  :-) > L >    And with some details and some background, I and others might well be = able to  > tailor the answer. >  >    Thanks,	 >    Hoff   . Thanks to all folks that answered my question.  4 Reading Mr. Doug Phillips answer gave me an insight,= and I create a procedure to search for documents (files), and  now I have what I want.   / Thank you Mr. Mike Rechtman for your procedure.  I=B4ll study it.  0 Mr. Hoffman, please don=B4t answer my questions.- I don=B4t like your arrogance and prepotency. 6 I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you don=B4t+ share your knowledgement, you only joke me.  I don=B4t need your comments.  Thanks.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:32:55 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)  Subject: Re: help desk procedure2 Message-ID: <06091410325573_20200290@antinode.org>   From: contracer11@gmail.com   2 > Mr. Hoffman, please don=B4t answer my questions./ > I don=B4t like your arrogance and prepotency. 8 > I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you don=B4t- > share your knowledgement, you only joke me.  > I don=B4t need your comments. 	 > Thanks.   F    From time to time I wonder if it's worth his effort, when I see one@ of those patient, extended, detailed replies to a very badly putA question.  Sometimes, apparently, it's just not.  Something about B casting ones pearls before swine leaps to mind.  If only one couldD identify the swine on the Internet _before_ they turn again and rendD you.  ("On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog,"  Until you post enough barking, anyway.)  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:42:26 -0700 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedureI Message-ID: <3f119ada0609140942l1fff0becpcd323cdc62e73dea@mail.gmail.com>   4 On 14 Sep 2006 06:14:39 -0700, contracer11@gmail.com? <contracer11@gmail.com> > Mr. Hoffman, please don=B4t answer my 
 questions./ > I don=B4t like your arrogance and prepotency. 8 > I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you don=B4t- > share your knowledgement, you only joke me.   B No, he was trying to *help* you. It is very rarely that a one-line@ question deserves more than one or two word answer- "Yes", "No", "Maybe", or "Don't Know".   C OTOH, providing background to what you're trying to do and what has E lead you to the particular question can often get you a solution that 3 solves the real problem- not just cure the symptom.   E But anyway, you seem to think you have your solution. I hope it works , well for you, having set fire to the bridge.   > I don=B4t need your comments.    Now look who's being arrogant!   *plonk*    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:45:43 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedure9 Message-ID: <bJydnVv1-ILuDpTYnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: contracer11@gmail.com  > 3 >> Mr. Hoffman, please don=B4t answer my questions. 0 >> I don=B4t like your arrogance and prepotency.9 >> I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you don=B4t . >> share your knowledgement, you only joke me.  >> I don=B4t need your comments.
 >> Thanks. > H >    From time to time I wonder if it's worth his effort, when I see oneB > of those patient, extended, detailed replies to a very badly putC > question.  Sometimes, apparently, it's just not.  Something about D > casting ones pearls before swine leaps to mind.  If only one couldF > identify the swine on the Internet _before_ they turn again and rendF > you.  ("On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog,"  Until you post > enough barking, anyway.)  H Well, I certainly hope Steve feels it's worth the effort.  I learn from F his posts, even when it's someone else's question.  I for one greatly  appreciate his efforts.   G I will add that sometimes he will point to other resources rather than  C just answer a simple question.  I can understand that from several  I perspectives, people should put some effort into their own problems, but  F it can be irritating.  Since I've paid the staggering sum of zero for / the information, I really cannot complain.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 05:26:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers , Message-ID: <45092047.24F8323D@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: F > Clearly the limit hasn't been reached yet. Benchmarks for samples of> > Intel's new quad-core 'Kentsfield' x64 chip have surfaced at  C Clearly, the 8086 is advancing at a much faster pace than that IA64 * thing that is just now getting to 2 cores.  D However, if you are processing an email message for spam, having 256@ cores won't help because only one core will be doing the work ofD checking that message for spam hints.  So the speed of an individual core is still important.    G In a server environment however, where you may be receiving 20 messages @ at the same time, having 20 cores will help, assuming the OS andF application can make good use of it and not just give all that work to	 one core.     D So, this is starting to look like the "Mhz" comparizons of the earlyA days where the 8086s were compared solely on the Mhz rating which E doesn't give the "big picture" of a chip's performance. The number of D cores also won't give you the "big picture" of a chip's performance.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 07:59:08 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers 3 Message-ID: <z5ovO9oM5ixz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <45087123.A231DECF@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G > It has everything to do with getting new customers on VMS.  Customers J > are not interested in moving to a dead (Alpha) or dying (IA64) platform,C > especially when the vendor is unwilling to commit to a promise of 8 > porting VMS to a new platform if/when IA64 is retired.  @    I just reviewed a CD that I received frm HP that presents VMSC    products available on IA64 (one of a set that also covers HP-UX,     Windows, and Linux).   E    On it are two OpenVMS commercials.  I've seen both on TV.  Neither E    mentions VMS, although form their location on the CD set, I assume 1    VMS is the "HP Technology" that was discussed.   B    HP doesn't seem to have that much trouble advertising its other    technology by name.      Very disapointing.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 08:01:27 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers 3 Message-ID: <P2ulT242uKfV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4508CB11.C2796854@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I > The point is that with the 8086, you get what Carly/Curly promised when H > they killed Alpha: a commodity, low cost, truly scalable architecture.4 > (none of which were delivered by that IA64 thing). >   ?    HP is still kicking the "Industry Standard" IA64 can around.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:51:33 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> / Subject: RE: HP announces new Integrity servers T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401A64F63@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20# > Sent: September 14, 2006 12:45 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 > Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote:  
 [Snip ...]   > >=20@ > > You think Windows and Linux will offer good consolidation=20 > solutions just& > > because they can run on x86-64.=20 >=20; > You think that you can put words into my mouth without=20  > getting caught at=20 > it.  Wrong yet again.  >=20< > I think that *x86-64* platforms can offer consolidation=20 > solutions that=20 > > are directly comparable to those that Itanic can, because=20 > they can run=20 @ > the same kind of software that makes consolidation feasible=20 > on Itanic,=20 H > as noted above:  Windows where that works, Linux or *BSD where that=203 > works, Solaris where a higher-end OS is required.  >=20  B Moving on time ... I view x86-64 as a consolidation platform beingF limited by the one app, one server culture of the available OS's on it= (Solaris high end will stick with SPARC) and you disagree.=20   = Imho, consolidating HW is one small piece, but unless you can G consolidate OS instances, you are not addressing the real issues of FTE 0 counts - the biggest slice of the IT budget pie.   You disagree. Fine.   D [As usual, insert here your last word on the subject .. Feel free to? insert the typical blusterous name calling that has become your  trademark for intimidation]    Moving on (really..)   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:10:37 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>1 Subject: Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3? * Message-ID: <45097100@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > Rod wrote: >> V/A 8.3 has been released. - > I'd be curious to know what "V/A" might be.   Q    Typical traditional OpenVMS usage of V/A such as that seen in the older price  J file entries was VAX/Alpha, meaning a package or product or part that was I dual-architecture (eg: the documentation), but in this case I expect the  O intended expansion of V/A was very likely "VMS/Alpha", and specifically to the  O software package and environment with the HP marketing name of "OpenVMS Alpha".    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:28:53 +0200 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 7 Message-ID: <004001c6d7c7$0c7a1930$994614ac@domina.fom>    Hello,  C if we would pay for what we would get, may this would be ok. But my E personal experience is, I get less service for more money. E.g. We do F have a campus contract for software service. Till this year I did have  the following service and costs:E Software service for every type of host, TIER1-TIER4 layered product, C device support, PC integration support, internet domain support for H 14.000,00=88. Now HP did cancel the last three service and would like to have 18.000,00=88.   Best regards R. Wingert    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 04:36:43 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 9 Message-ID: <zJydnc9Fmr2ejpTYnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:K >> Better to just show them the finger and just do it.  Still, there is the & >> problem of access to the engineers. >  > J > 3rd party support folks may have easier access to VMS engineers than theJ > drones who take the calls at the HP call centres. Remember that many VMS > engineers have left HP.  > E > Will Bruce Ellis end up being the boss of Hoff and FredK, Guido and & > perhaps the TCPIP engineering team ?  A When there are problems who will have the VMS source code, build  F procedures, and such to re-build the OS?  Forget the source listings. F Such may allow you to find a problem, but don't allow you to re-build  the OS.   E It worked best when DEC had the engineers, the knowledgeable support  A staff, and the will to put it all together and run a first class  8 operation.  In this case, diversity is not a good thing.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 03:11:46 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India C Message-ID: <1158228706.614383.157140@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote: L > I had to train two engineers from India who would then train two more whenM > they returned to India. I was given two weeks to train them in VMS and then 7 > our suite of VMS backup products Total of 8 products.  > L > It failed miserably, resulting in a loss of over $500,000.00 in annual 80%H > margin revenue from software support contracts, in less than 6 months.  D I would have thought the failure to reach predicted software supportE contract revenue would have caught the attention of somone high up in  hp. I guess it did not.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 06:31:39 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India < Message-ID: <45092de7$0$24180$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  , "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message = news:1158228706.614383.157140@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...  >  > Jeff Cameron wrote:  [...snip...] > F > I would have thought the failure to reach predicted software supportG > contract revenue would have caught the attention of somone high up in  > hp. I guess it did not.  > L On a related note, in March 2006 I made my first call in 19 years to OpenVMSK support. I phoned a published Quebec number, went through 2 levels of voice L jail then was routed to a Colorado tech who helped me within 9 minutes and IK was never put on hold. (I know it was Colorado because I asked the tech why L he didn't present me with the usual French greetings). The cost of living isL relatively low in Colorado so it doesn't make much sense to me to close this center in favour of India.       ###   I In an unrelated point, last year my employer out-sourced customer support G for non-commercial clients. I've never heard a good customer experience J story relating to this change and we've lost a lot of customers (accordingE to my friends and relatives who like to push my nose into this mess). H Management keeps repeating the mantra about saving money but no one ever( gets an honest comment on lost business.  F My point here is that my employer kept control of customer support forI commercial clients. I'm pretty sure 99% of HP's customers are commercial, D government or military and I can't see these last two calling India.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:31:11 +0100 / From: "R.A.Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 4 Message-ID: <eebb1f$4l9$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk>   Ian Miller wrote:  > Jeff Cameron wrote:  > L >>I had to train two engineers from India who would then train two more whenM >>they returned to India. I was given two weeks to train them in VMS and then 7 >>our suite of VMS backup products Total of 8 products.  >>L >>It failed miserably, resulting in a loss of over $500,000.00 in annual 80%H >>margin revenue from software support contracts, in less than 6 months. >  > F > I would have thought the failure to reach predicted software supportG > contract revenue would have caught the attention of somone high up in  > hp. I guess it did not.   B I may be mis-remembering, but didn't Jeff work for Microtechnology (i.e. it wasn't HP) ?    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 07:13:57 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 3 Message-ID: <hDSeL$aeMqyL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <f8ednRRi8YSpVJXYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > s >> In article <fo2dnSO0IsvjEJXYnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  >>   >>  @ >>>As I recall, DEC, usually had competent people on the phones. >>   >>  H >> My last experience with the DEC telephone support center involved me,E >> as representative of the customer, teaching them, the Pascal team,  >> how Pascal syntax worked. > < > Well, now you can teach them how English syntax works. :-)  9 No, this was 20 years ago - I have not called back since.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 08:04:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 3 Message-ID: <BhKbBb9jphlx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <45086493.603816EF@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > H > Now, lets look at the real trend here: Products who have been declaredH > "mature" have had their maintenance moved to India. Notably ALLIN1 andH > many of the products it uses below it. The conclusion is that the moreM > of VMS they move to India, the closer VMS comes to being declared "mature".   E    So you want HP to sell off all the mature products which run under     VMS to prevent that?   E    All the work HP is putting into VMS and all the work the customers J    are asking for doesn't overwhelm the long history of products that have    become mature on VMS.  B    Mature is not the same as dropped, which is what you seem to be?    trying to imply.  Moving support to another location is very '    different from dropping the product.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 06:53:17 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India A Message-ID: <1158241997.661776.68550@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    R.A.Omond wrote:D > I may be mis-remembering, but didn't Jeff work for Microtechnology > (i.e. it wasn't HP) ?   < My mistake, should have been high up people in that company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:39:50 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 9 Message-ID: <WbKdnS0kRf9_-pTYnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote: L > I had to train two engineers from India who would then train two more whenM > they returned to India. I was given two weeks to train them in VMS and then 7 > our suite of VMS backup products Total of 8 products.  > L > It failed miserably, resulting in a loss of over $500,000.00 in annual 80%H > margin revenue from software support contracts, in less than 6 months.  F Lets see, even by my arithmetic, that's $400K profits (Ok, margin) on E $500K revenue.  And someone wanted to improve the margin by reducing  D costs?  Can you spell GREED?  I'd say the asshole decision maker(s) E didn't get what they deserve.  What they deserve isn't legal in most  H places.  Shooting is way too quick.  Cutting their heads off is way too  quick.  9 Maybe I should ask for name(s) so I'll know who to avoid.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:44:22 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India : Message-ID: <QvydneljGrdX95TYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  r > In article <fo2dnSO0IsvjEJXYnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > I >>As I recall, DEC, usually had competent people on the phones.  The rot  * >>didn't really set in until HP took over. >  > F >    I don't think you dealt with DEC enough, then.  With VMS we often >    didn't need support.  >   H Isn't thirteen years enough?  And, of course, Compaq and HP after that.  . . .   F The first person you talked to knew just about enough to know who you G should talk to.  That was sufficient.  If someone from the appropriate  K group wasn't available, I got a call back as soon as someone was available.   H As operating systems go, VMS does not require a lot of support but when F you are having a problem it's good to have someone to talk with about G it.  Those people saw more problems in a day than I saw in a couple of  ' months and they had the answers on tap.   F At the other end of the spectrum is you know which O/S; if you have a  problem, reboot!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:35:39 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 0 Message-ID: <C12EC4DB.2537A%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 9/14/06 6:53 AM, in articleA 1158241997.661776.68550@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Ian Miller"  <ijm@uk2.net> wrote:   >  > R.A.Omond wrote:E >> I may be mis-remembering, but didn't Jeff work for Microtechnology  >> (i.e. it wasn't HP) ? > > > My mistake, should have been high up people in that company. >   Yes, I did work for MTI, not HP.E Two of my customers that were previously with MTI have now contracted  directly to me.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 00:23:59 -0700- From: "Brucey" <Bruce.Goller@LCHClearnet.com> 4 Subject: Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned processC Message-ID: <1158218639.478029.210460@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Ian Miller wrote: 1 > What version of TCPWARE on what version of VMS?       
 NETCU> sh ver 5 TCPware(R) V5.7-2 Copyright (c) 2005 Process Software   ; OpenVMS version V7.3-2   booted on  2-SEP-2006 08:01:19.00, &         running on a AlphaServer ES40.  + MAS number: <none entered in configuration>    NETCU>   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 10:08:41 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)E Subject: Re: MOUNT quietly ignores JTQUOTA exhausted (OpenVMS V7.3-2) , Message-ID: <vCUxg$lKjyFe@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  4 David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  E > I discovered something quite by accident last week: when MOUNTing a E > large number of volumes privately to a your process, MOUNT does not I > return a failure indication when it cannot create a Logical Volume Name - > because the process's JTQUOTA is exhausted.   I If you have a support contract, please contact your support centre to get N a fix.  I've notified the engineer who deals with MOUNT, and it'll get fixed, K but if you need a fix before the formal patch kit is released, you'll need   to log a call.   Thanks for pointing this out!    --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:14:11 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>E Subject: Re: MOUNT quietly ignores JTQUOTA exhausted (OpenVMS V7.3-2) * Message-ID: <450971c6@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:   8 > Is this the expected behavior? ...or is this an issue?  L    This MOUNT bug was informally reported to OpenVMS engineering within the Q week, and was passed along to the engineering maintainer of MOUNT.  I don't know  1 the plans nor the status of any remediation work.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 01:01:44 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c C Message-ID: <1158220904.889855.106080@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    bradhamilton wrote: J > I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird replace > Mozilla on VMS in the future?   4 Only if someone does the port. Are you volenteering?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:15:34 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> & Subject: Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES< Message-ID: <45093832$0$24180$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:45080a44@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Neil Rieck wrote:  >  [...snip...] > D >   There wasn't anything particularly "erroneous" about the IOLOCK8J > spinlock synchronization and the associated activity, that's how OpenVMSF > was designed to work, and it's the SMP direct descendant of the IPL8 > synchronization. > H >   What happened at V7.3-2 was that the on-going performance work foundK > that the various pieces that were synchronizing on IOLOCK8 could be split K > into finer granularity, and substantially reducing the contention on that  > spinlock.  > L >   IOLOCK8 is the traditional main system data structure lock, and -- priorC > to the V7.3-2 changes -- a whole lot of the OpenVMS internal data 8 > structures were protected by that particular spinlock. > J >   As we've added tools (the ssl system service logging, the spl spinlockJ > tracing, etc) we've identified areas of contention or of heavy activity,D > and have targeted these for work.  As is the case with applicationI > performance, you can be surprised what a tracing will tell you -- tools D > such as DECset PCA, DTM, and SCA can provide insight into what theK > application code is actually doing and where it is spending its time, and G > the analogous mechanisms added into OpenVMS provided similar insight.  >  Thanks for the clarification.   J Maybe my use of the word "erroneous" was not entirely accurate but I foundE an entry in my notes from the 7.3-2 presentation from Gaitan D'Antoni G reminding me that "sometimes progammers do things by habbit rather than  design intention".  J Adding to your point, Gaitan discussed some large SMP systems (in Europe) L where a customers system was bogging down, wasn't I/O bound,  but inserting & additional CPUs didn't improve things.  ! Snips from the 7.3-2 power point:   K LAN Fastpath is designed to reduce the contention for the IOLOCK8 spinlock F and to allow LAN to perform its I/O processing on a CPU other than the/ primary, improving SMP performance scalability.  LAN Drivers5 Move off of IOLOCK8 to LAN device specific spinlocks 7 Allow device interrupts to CPUs other than the primary 	 PEdriver - Move off of IOLOCK8 to PE specific spinlocks : Allow a specific CPU to be chosen for PEdriver processingB Allows PEDRIVER to process cluster communications on a single CPUH Reduces CPU cost due to streamlined codepath also for served block data Fastpath for Smart Array 5300 Backplane RAID controller/ Offload IOLOCK8 spinlock, allows CPU selection  Scalable Kernel9 Performance and scalability improvements for SMP systems  Multiple dynamic spinlocks  No more IOLOCK8  C OpenVMS is very cool and I suspect the equivalent of crossing this  C speed-bump (after your SMP granularity analysis) has not even been  6 considered in other operating system like Windows etc.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:47:08 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES9 Message-ID: <WbKdnSwkRf8L9JTYnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: ; > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message & > news:45080a44@usenet01.boi.hp.com... >> Neil Rieck wrote: >> > [...snip...]E >>   There wasn't anything particularly "erroneous" about the IOLOCK8 K >> spinlock synchronization and the associated activity, that's how OpenVMS G >> was designed to work, and it's the SMP direct descendant of the IPL8  >> synchronization.  >>I >>   What happened at V7.3-2 was that the on-going performance work found L >> that the various pieces that were synchronizing on IOLOCK8 could be splitL >> into finer granularity, and substantially reducing the contention on that >> spinlock. >>M >>   IOLOCK8 is the traditional main system data structure lock, and -- prior D >> to the V7.3-2 changes -- a whole lot of the OpenVMS internal data9 >> structures were protected by that particular spinlock.  >>K >>   As we've added tools (the ssl system service logging, the spl spinlock K >> tracing, etc) we've identified areas of contention or of heavy activity, E >> and have targeted these for work.  As is the case with application J >> performance, you can be surprised what a tracing will tell you -- toolsE >> such as DECset PCA, DTM, and SCA can provide insight into what the L >> application code is actually doing and where it is spending its time, andH >> the analogous mechanisms added into OpenVMS provided similar insight. >> > Thanks for the clarification.  > L > Maybe my use of the word "erroneous" was not entirely accurate but I foundG > an entry in my notes from the 7.3-2 presentation from Gaitan D'Antoni I > reminding me that "sometimes progammers do things by habbit rather than  > design intention". > L > Adding to your point, Gaitan discussed some large SMP systems (in Europe) N > where a customers system was bogging down, wasn't I/O bound,  but inserting ( > additional CPUs didn't improve things. > # > Snips from the 7.3-2 power point:  > M > LAN Fastpath is designed to reduce the contention for the IOLOCK8 spinlock H > and to allow LAN to perform its I/O processing on a CPU other than the1 > primary, improving SMP performance scalability.  > LAN Drivers7 > Move off of IOLOCK8 to LAN device specific spinlocks 9 > Allow device interrupts to CPUs other than the primary  > PEdriver / > Move off of IOLOCK8 to PE specific spinlocks < > Allow a specific CPU to be chosen for PEdriver processingD > Allows PEDRIVER to process cluster communications on a single CPUJ > Reduces CPU cost due to streamlined codepath also for served block data  > Fastpath for Smart Array 5300 > Backplane RAID controller1 > Offload IOLOCK8 spinlock, allows CPU selection  > Scalable Kernel; > Performance and scalability improvements for SMP systems  > Multiple dynamic spinlocks  > No more IOLOCK8 > E > OpenVMS is very cool and I suspect the equivalent of crossing this  E > speed-bump (after your SMP granularity analysis) has not even been  8 > considered in other operating system like Windows etc.  F It's also possible that some of these others never implemented such a 7 bottleneck.  Unless they were blindly copying VMS.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 01:17:59 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy C Message-ID: <1158221878.227396.220910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C There are DECservers which boot from flashram which gets around the % lack of load host in some situations.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:43:44 +0200 ( From: Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy / Message-ID: <eeb87g$sie$02$1@news.t-online.com>    Rob Brown schrieb: > K > That's strange, I don't have to enter new licenses every year.  I wonder  
 > why not. > 8 > Oh yeah, now I remember.  We paid for our copy of VMS. >   ; Oh yeah, you suggest that I should pay $$$$ as a hobbyist ? - And at the same time HP offers Tru64 for $99, > HP-UX developer CDs for some $60, Sun offers Solaris for free,? AIX and HP-UX media are some $$ on eBay and legally installable ) on the respective hardware. Without PAKs.   3 Must be some clever business plan of the VMS owners  to expand their customer base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:44:04 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy 3 Message-ID: <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>    Paul Sture wrote: 5 > In article <1158100702_12213@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, ( >  Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote: > J >> The problem is, with no licenses active, the only access is through theE >> console port. I didn't have a null modem cable available, so I was D >> unable to >>> SET CONSOLE SERIAL and use the serial console port.I >> Once I had VMS running on the serial console, I assume I would be able F >> to set the terminal type to VT100 and then EDIT/EDT a file and have, >> hyperterm send the license file contents. >> > K > I've got enough cables available, but Macs don't come with a serial port  @ > anymore (do PCs still?), I too took the route of burning a CD.  H I think most if not all *modern* PCs have USB ports. My ugh PCs are DPWS5 330s, so I still have DB9 connectored comm ports. 8-)    > K > Beware that loading the Hobbyist licenses via the serial console port is  K > _painfully_ slow, and for edits in console mode you are better off using   > EDIT in line mode.  F I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk about slow!  8-)  G For this pass, I even dug out my TECO pocket guide thinking I could use F DUMP to dump the diskette blocks containing the licenses. I could thenB edit the output file to recover just the license text. It's been a# *LONG* time since I used TECO!  8-)    > D > It's best to just select the ones you need to get the network and + > DECwindows going, then transfer the rest.  >      Jeff Campbell N8WXS   Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:33:51 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Remote Consoles, Disaster Tolerance (was: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy) mc * Message-ID: <45096852@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: S >>    Integrity boxes come with built-in network management consoles on most boxes, P >> while these "MP" widgets -- "Management Processor" -- are options on a few of >> the low-end boxes.    >  > A > While I used to be philosophically against the use of TCPIP for J > consoles, I think I started to turn around when I got my first DSL modemJ > which had a TCPIP stack that was quite fully features, complete with FTPD > , TELNET, PING, traceroute etc. (and yes, this is just a modem :-) > H > ROM based TCPIP stancks have become quite reliable enough that you canN > start to trust them to be available all the time to access a system console. > I > In my case though, I would probably want to have at least some PDA with D > ethernet capability, or some terminal with its own ROM based TCPIPJ > interface that I could use to connect to the system console before beingD > ready to ditch the serial port for the system consoles.  (aka: theJ > equivalent of a VT terminal that you know will work without requiring itG > to load its software from some other place).  In the case of terminal I > servers, if the terminal server giving you access to a console requires I > it loads its software from a host, then after a power failure, you have G > no way to access the console because the system won't boot unless you D > type the "B" command, and you can't type the "B" command until theI > terminal server is up, and the terminal server is waiting for system to 3 > boot before its own MOP requests can be answered.       Q    But you forgot -- somebody has to invent the letter B, and then install it on  Q your keyboard, then somebody has to invent the socket for the keyboard, and then  J somebody has to invent the Muppet to teach kids about the letter B...  :-)  K    But seriously, the Integrity Management Processor (MP) adds the network  L access to the existing serial console connection -- it does not replace the L serial connection.  Further, the MP board is typically active even when the N system is powered down, and the MP does not require downloads, and the MP can  run baseline diagnostics.   Q    As for systems that lack integrated management processors and that see serial  O terminal servers used to permit remote network access, various of the terminal  O servers also can be ROM- or NVRAM-based, and there are various options to load  O terminal servers from various hosts.  And MOP runs on various systems -- there  Q is a mopd MOP daemon available for Linux and NetBSD, for instance.  It'd take an  O afternoon to build a little Linux box that mopd'd stuff.  (Or a Linux box that  ) WAS the console server, for that matter.)   K    As for remote console options, there are various products listed in the  ? OpenVMS FAQ.  Corrections and updates to that list are welcome.   Q    And your posting in this thread is also the realization of the basis for many  N of the discussions of disaster tolerance, as what you are describing with MOP J and DECserver console access (for those systems lacking MP consoles) just P touches the very surface of the real difficulties lurking here.  There's a very N large iceberg lurking just below the surface of that terminal server download P you're discussing.  Power, fuel, lighting, communications, building access, etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 08:10:03 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next week3 Message-ID: <brZLLzgEgEiC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <450874be$0$24187$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > = > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  ( > news:450871A7.B4E20BE3@teksavvy.com... >> Guy Peleg wrote:  > [...snip...]I >> Perhaps Terry Shannon is still active in passing information via a new  >> plane of existance :-)  >>K > As Sue suggested on INFO-VAX today, theinquirer.net does not have a very  > > good track record so maybe this is just an unfounded rumour.  G    Nope.  If Terry says so, then it must be true.  But we'd all like to A    know which medium the Inquirer is paying to make that contact.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:54:02 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next week9 Message-ID: <WbKdnS8kRf-p9pTYnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:% >> I've been considering those beers.  >>I >> But in his new position, getting HP pissed off isn't the best thing to G >> do.  Even if some juicy tidbits turned up, could they be used if the C >> result would harm a third party providing services to VMS users?  >  > J > Say that after a few beers, Guido were to tell you that they have infactH > looked at a port to the 8086, but La Carly had blocked it, Hurd hasn'tJ > been convinced and that perhaps getting many customers to ask Hurd mightI > unlock the process.  You can't release that info to the public, but you I > could mount some campaign to get people to write letters to Hurd urging  > a port of VMS to the 8086.  I Since you're already doing that job so well what would be the benefit of  G some information that couldn't be used to add some credibility to your   efforts?  E > This would implicate no HP employees, would not appear to be as the  > result of any leaks at all.  > E > There are many ways to use information which cannot be made public.    In this case, I don't think so.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 10:41:29 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>0 Subject: Re: VMS support goes to India next weekB Message-ID: <1158255689.083458.79950@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > Rich Jordan wrote: > I > > It ended up taking over 2 hours on the phone (one continuous call but I > > forwarded several times) PLUS the intervention of the distributor our G > > service contracts are handled through to convince them that yes, in < > > fact, that system was under a hardware support contract. > H > If HP service sucks that bad cancel the service contract and take your > business elsewhere.  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog  G Up till a few weeks ago we had no complaint with hardware support calls G in general; sure they weren't up to the standards of pre-Compaq DEC but > what is?  This is the first time we've had truly bad response.  E Is this the new paradigm?  Or was it a call center problem, automated F attendant down, overflow to a secondary call center, or what?  I'm notD going to recommend dumping the contract on one single bad experienceF (though HP has and will again hear about it).  If this turns out to beD the new 'way things are' then we will certainly look at alternatives& (got your company's name, Mr. Peleg!).   Rich   CCS    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.505 ************************