1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 15 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 506       Contents: Alphastation 600 memory type  Re: Alphastation 600 memory type  Re: Alphastation 600 memory type  Re: Alphastation 600 memory type3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode A Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL A Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL  DecServer woes Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure  Re: help desk procedure & Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers( Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3?0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India+ Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process P Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st cP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st cP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy
 Selling DS20e  Re: TECO broken on I64 VMS 8.3  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 04:30:44 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com % Subject: Alphastation 600 memory type 0 Message-ID: <877j06qjgr.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  : What sort of memory is used in an Alphastation 600 5/266?   5 Does it have to come in a special Art Deco package ;)    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:50:32 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net>) Subject: Re: Alphastation 600 memory type 2 Message-ID: <1158269899_2041@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:< > What sort of memory is used in an Alphastation 600 5/266?  > 7 > Does it have to come in a special Art Deco package ;)  >  You might find the answer here:   J     <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/a600.html>   Jeff Campbell N8WXS   Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 14:36:45 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>) Subject: Re: Alphastation 600 memory type C Message-ID: <1158269805.638778.127450@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    PaulG      assuming a 600-5/333 uses the same memory, it should be 72-pin tin ? contact true parity SIMM memory, 60 or 70ns.  You need to use 8 B matching SIMMs per bank.  My AS600 has two banks of 16MB SIMMs forD 256MB total memory.  I _believe_ they could accept 32MB SIMMs and so4 get up to 1GB of memory if all banks were populated.   Rich     prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:; > What sort of memory is used in an Alphastation 600 5/266?  > 7 > Does it have to come in a special Art Deco package ;)  >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 6076, > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:03:50 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ) Subject: Re: Alphastation 600 memory type : Message-ID: <1-adnaNu4uBUTJTYnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@comcast.com>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:  < > What sort of memory is used in an Alphastation 600 5/266?  > 7 > Does it have to come in a special Art Deco package ;)  >   G No Art Deco involved.  I bought some from a third party memory vendor.  C It wasn't DEC but it worked and kept on working.  The name "Memory  E World" comes to mind; I know I've dealt with them before but I'm not  ? certain that it was Alphastation 600 memory I bought from them.   < Google and/or e-Bay should turn up some usable memory. . . .   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:37:47 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode* Message-ID: <4509775a@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  9    Please send along the crashdump, or a pointer to same.   M    Unfortunately, the five of us have worked this debugging and this OpenVMS  F source code review about as far as we can reasonably manage under the M circumstances, and we'll wait on the arrival of the dumpfile and the details  S within to confirm the particular failure within the $audit_event[w] system service.   N    As for the transfer, I can either FTP pull the crashdump, or can provide a N location where an FTP push and copy the crashdump, or a media package shipped N via the local HP office or directly to me at the following address will allow > the engineering work here to resolve this failure to continue.      Stephen Hoffman    mailstop ZKO-3/4T61&    Hewlett-Packard OpenVMS Engineering    110 Spit Brook Road    Nashua, NH, 03062  +    And again, thank you for reporting this.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:34:16 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode* Message-ID: <4509aebe@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  N As it happens, the working theory was not the actual trigger here (data often P has a habit of derailing theories), but what was recently posted had sufficient N data within to allow the identification of the specific trigger from amid all P the stack detritus that was located after the (missing) termination within your ( particular OpenVMS run-time environment.  " This without the crashdump access.  Q I'd not expect a general ECO to be released for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 (as it's an  J officially unsupported release), but the necessary code changes needed to O prevent this failure in the future will be folded into the OpenVMS source code.   % Thank you (again) for reporting this.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:53:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> J Subject: Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL, Message-ID: <4509A52B.B6947AB1@teksavvy.com>  ? Seems LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL has some interesting side efffects.   C All this time, I was able to do a PURGE myshareable.EXE without any G complaints about the file still being locked. So I had assumed that the M SYMBIONT was done with the shareable image loaded with LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL.   @ Seems it wasn't. While the actual file may have been closed, theE SYMBIONT process still maintained some structures on it, and the next F time a LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL was needed to map to the shareable image,D it seems it reused some structures that mapped to a now non existant# file and voila: "access violation".     G So I STOP/QUEUE/NEXT the TCPIP$SMTP_mumble queue, and restarted it. And @ definitely a different behaviour. But now it seems to go into an0 infinite loop to process any message :-( :-( :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:26:05 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>J Subject: Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL* Message-ID: <4509acd1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   JF Mezei wrote: A > Seems LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL has some interesting side efffects.  > E > All this time, I was able to do a PURGE myshareable.EXE without any I > complaints about the file still being locked. So I had assumed that the O > SYMBIONT was done with the shareable image loaded with LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL.   M    There's no supported way to flush an activated image nor shareable image,  O short of an image (user-mode) image rundown.  This whether a static and rather  P traditional image activation, or via a lib$find_image_symbol dynamic activation.  M    Even a $deltva doesn't really help here, as the structures are still left   around within the process.  P    The next ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR pass is expected to find and to clean up any of J these held-open files left from the experiments, too.  These are normally P cleaned up automatically and transparently, but crashes can interfere with that P disk clean-up processing.  Most folks have a few of these left lurking -- these J are harmless, but they do build up disk usage over time, if these are not O occasionally cleaned up with an ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR pass.  (Marked for Delete,   but not deleted.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:03:11 -0400 0 From: "Glen Thompson" <glen.thompson@cox.netnet> Subject: DecServer woes - Message-ID: <PclOg.10565$Zm1.9499@dukeread02>   F I had a DecServer 700 that had a memory SIMM go bad.  After replacing G the SIMM I'm unable to load the software into it.   Grabbed a spare DS  F and configured it and it won't accept the software load either.  Both G DecServers show normal startup with the proper amount of memory (5 MB).   
 Specifics:  $ OpenVMS 7.2 on a Vaxstation 4000-90a  DecServer 700-16, firmware 3.4-9  I Normal procedure is to run MCR LANCP and issue a TRIGGER command to send  E the software to the DS.  This time it doesn't seem to work. Here are  G some of the details.  DS700A is working fine.  DS700B won't load.  MAC  : addresses have been verified.    Any ideas on what to try?   TIA, glen       LANCP> show config   LAN Configuration:5    Device   Medium      Default LAN Address   Version 5    ------   ------      -------------------   ------- ;     EZA0    CSMA/CD      08-00-2B-30-A2-BC    Not available  LANCP>  8 ========================================================   LANCP> sho node     Node Listing, volatile database:   (Catchall entry):    DS700A (08-00-2B-3B-10-E1): B   MOP DLL:  Load file:   DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.DECSERVER]WWENG2.SYS)             Load root:   (None specified)              Boot type:   Other   DS700B (08-00-2B-2C-A0-B5): B   MOP DLL:  Load file:   DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.DECSERVER]WWENG2.SYS)             Load root:   (None specified)              Boot type:   Other  C ===================================================================    LANCP> sho log  ( SYS$MANAGER:LAN$ACP.LOG latest contents:  '     Requested file:  LAN$DLL:WWENG1.SYS G  1-SEP-2006 16:11:37.13  Could not respond to load request on EZA0 from  DS700A, file not foundH  1-SEP-2006 16:15:06.66  Volunteered to load request on EZA0 from DS700A>     Requested file:  DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.DECSERVER]WWENG2.SYS:  1-SEP-2006 16:15:31.86  Load succeeded for DS700A on EZA0!     MOP V4 format, System image,  ) DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.DECSERVER]WWENG2.SYS &     Packets:  6819 sent, 6819 received:     Bytes:    1717931 sent, 20457 received, 1677017 loaded2     Elapsed time:  00:00:25.07, 66893 bytes/second; 14-SEP-2006 13:56:15.50  Cleared MOP downline load counters   8 ========================================================  $ LANCP> trigger node ds700b /dev=eza0% Triggering 08-00-2B-2C-A0-B5 via EZA0 3 %LANCP-I-MOPV4BOOT, MOP Version 4 boot message sent 3 -LANCP-I-MOPV3BOOT, MOP Version 3 boot message sent    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:02:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedure, Message-ID: <45099927.38649152@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:I > Well, I certainly hope Steve feels it's worth the effort.  I learn from G > his posts, even when it's someone else's question.  I for one greatly  > appreciate his efforts.     F If Hoff can be patient, professional and complete in his replies to myD posts, then he is a saint by anyone's definition :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  5 And yeah, his participation here is VERY appreciated.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:58:41 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>  Subject: Re: help desk procedure* Message-ID: <45097c34@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   contracer11@gmail.com wrote:  0 > Mr. Hoffman, please dont answer my questions.- > I dont like your arrogance and prepotency.       That is not my intent.   6 > I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you dont- > share your knowledgement, you only joke me.   Q    Eh?  No jokes were intended.  (I try to highlight those that I do make, and I  4 generally only get myself in trouble with my humor.)   > I dont need your comments.   N    Wikis work quite well for this sort of help desk support, and I would find O that a Wiki would be very useful for a help desk task -- particularly if there  O are folks of varying experience and knowledge expertise areas, where folks can  P search for, update, and collaborate on the contents.  http://www.wikipedia.org/ N being the benchmark site for this approach.  And wikis (and wikimedia) almost Q certainly can be gotten to work on OpenVMS, given that the underlying pieces are  
 available.  M    For various requirements, yes, SEARCH and some text files can and do work  O just fine.  Or Notes and a notes conference.  And there are help desk packages   around.   P    (But if you intend to turn either help-desk folks or end-user folks loose in N a help desk environment, a number of the folks will most certainly already be Q able to get up to speed quickly within a web interface and a Wiki, regardless of  N the particular host system(s) and client(s).  And the information in the Wiki N can move forward and can evolve and extend as needed -- very easily, and will M little or potentially no involvement of a central maintainer.  And it can be  Q searched.  Yes, it's a far "heavier-weight" solution than text files and SEARCH,  ( but not one without its own advantages.)  L    What you may not realize here and what you are seeing here is that it is P extremely difficult for me to understand your question sufficiently to (try to) Q answer your question -- that's why I ask invariably for the background here, and  P why I (try to) provide some suggestions and approaches.  What is most certainly Q entirely obvious to you here can be one of many potential questions that I could  O foresee being asked and intended -- you might (incorrectly) seem to think your  J questions are simple ones or ones with easy answers, but (likely entirely K unintentionally) you've had the uncanny ability of asking some of the most  % difficult questions I've encountered.   /    But OK, I'll not post any (further) replies.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:17:41 -0500 # From: Alex Zorrilla <apz@zxeng.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedure, Message-ID: <eec9sh01e9n@enews4.newsguy.com>  G I think there may be a language barrier at work here.  It appears that  C contacer11's native language is Portuguese.  When he says that you  ? "joke" him, I believe that he means to say that you "mock" him.   E I know that this is not your intent, Hoff.  You are just looking for  A some background to the problem.  However, it may that contacer11  H interpreted your post as, "Your question is too short for me to answer, H so why don't you just create the Wikipedia, or maybe just write it down ! in a book?  Anybody can do that."   H That is just my guess as to what may be going on here.  I hope I do not + get burned by walking into a flame war.  ;)        Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > 1 >> Mr. Hoffman, please dont answer my questions. . >> I dont like your arrogance and prepotency. >  >   That is not my intent. > 7 >> I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you dont . >> share your knowledgement, you only joke me. > F >   Eh?  No jokes were intended.  (I try to highlight those that I do B > make, and I generally only get myself in trouble with my humor.) >  >> I dont need your comments. > J >   Wikis work quite well for this sort of help desk support, and I would @ > find that a Wiki would be very useful for a help desk task -- F > particularly if there are folks of varying experience and knowledge J > expertise areas, where folks can search for, update, and collaborate on H > the contents.  http://www.wikipedia.org/ being the benchmark site for K > this approach.  And wikis (and wikimedia) almost certainly can be gotten  E > to work on OpenVMS, given that the underlying pieces are available.  > I >   For various requirements, yes, SEARCH and some text files can and do  H > work just fine.  Or Notes and a notes conference.  And there are help  > desk packages around.  > H >   (But if you intend to turn either help-desk folks or end-user folks D > loose in a help desk environment, a number of the folks will most D > certainly already be able to get up to speed quickly within a web H > interface and a Wiki, regardless of the particular host system(s) and G > client(s).  And the information in the Wiki can move forward and can  A > evolve and extend as needed -- very easily, and will little or  E > potentially no involvement of a central maintainer.  And it can be  K > searched.  Yes, it's a far "heavier-weight" solution than text files and  2 > SEARCH, but not one without its own advantages.) > J >   What you may not realize here and what you are seeing here is that it I > is extremely difficult for me to understand your question sufficiently  J > to (try to) answer your question -- that's why I ask invariably for the C > background here, and why I (try to) provide some suggestions and  J > approaches.  What is most certainly entirely obvious to you here can be G > one of many potential questions that I could foresee being asked and  G > intended -- you might (incorrectly) seem to think your questions are  > > simple ones or ones with easy answers, but (likely entirely H > unintentionally) you've had the uncanny ability of asking some of the , > most difficult questions I've encountered. > 0 >   But OK, I'll not post any (further) replies. >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:57:23 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: help desk procedure9 Message-ID: <8f2dnYdOksfAXZTYnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > 1 >> Mr. Hoffman, please dont answer my questions. . >> I dont like your arrogance and prepotency. >  >   That is not my intent.  H Regardless of anyone's intent, I just had to look-up that word.  Now my " vocabulary has been enriched.  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2006 16:51:55 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: help desk procedureC Message-ID: <1158277915.809875.265500@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > Hoff Hoffman escreveu: >   > > contracer11@gmail.com wrote:H > > > I'm looking for a VMS command procedure where I can store data andI > > > where I can find this data using a search command (like a help desk 6 > > > database). Is there any procedure already made ? > >  > >    Hello Shiva,  > > 3 > >    Please: Terse questions beget terse answers.  > > L > >    Please back up about 500 to 1000 meters, and tell us what specific p=	 roblem(s) L > > you are trying to (re)solve here, what software you already have access=  to (eg:L > > databases, OpenVMS version(s) and platform(s), whether this is to be a =	 windowing L > > system application or character cell or web-based servers, etc), what s= cale of L > > storage is likely involved and what scale of information might be inclu= ded, who@ > > the intended clients might be, and what the budget might be. > > L > >    On zero information and as a first and potentially wild guess, my fi= rst 0 > > suggestions would be Bugzilla and/or a Wiki. > > L > >    Perl and PHP services and support tools -- stuff built on these lang=	 uages and L > > tools -- should arrive quite easily on OpenVMS, for instance, if there = are not  > > already packages available.  > > L > >    At another interpretation of your (unfortunately terse) question, as= sumingL > > it's just you maintaining that's looking to maintain information for yo=	 urself, a L > > text file and the SEARCH command can be pressed into service -- I've ce= rtainly L > > used this solution for myself, as have many other folks.  The extreme a=	 nd quaint L > > and massively low-tech solution of a paper-based notebook also works.  = :-)  > > L > >    And with some details and some background, I and others might well b=	 e able to  > > tailor the answer. > >  > >    Thanks, > >    Hoff  > 0 > Thanks to all folks that answered my question. > 6 > Reading Mr. Doug Phillips answer gave me an insight,? > and I create a procedure to search for documents (files), and  > now I have what I want.  > 1 > Thank you Mr. Mike Rechtman for your procedure.  > I=B4ll study it. > 2 > Mr. Hoffman, please don=B4t answer my questions./ > I don=B4t like your arrogance and prepotency. 8 > I know that you are a Master from VMS, but you don=B4t- > share your knowledgement, you only joke me.  > I don=B4t need your comments. 	 > Thanks.   E Wow. "Prepotency" and "knowledgement" in adjacent sentences. I almost ; didn't look up "prepotency", but it really is a word. (!!!)   G I think Mr. Hoffman was actually quite politely saying, "Could you be a  little more vague?" &-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:35:39 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers , Message-ID: <450984de$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message A news:qNSdnRMSHPXr1pXYnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com...  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > >> FredK wrote: 6 > >>> Cool.  How fast does VMS run on the Power5+ 4+M?L > >> I'm not sure how that would be relevant to this sub-topic, unless HP isI > >> actually touting price/performance metrics for VMS on Superdome (see J > >> above context).  That would be great, since I can't remember the last= > >> time VMS's owners bothered to benchmark anything on VMS.  > >>L > >> Of course, if VMS were to be ported to a platform as estimable as POWERK > >> (if that's what you were obliquely referring to) that would be nice as J > >> well (though I'd have to suggest that porting to x86-64 should likely be > >> a higher priority). > >  > > it is very relevant  > / > No, boob - you're just as clueless as always.  > E > The sub-topic was about the *price/performance figures* for the new C > Integrity servers - so unless any of the quantitative performance I > information was obtained in a VMS environment it had nothing to do with  VMS. >   L Wow.  News has subtopics?  I need to get a new news reader.  But wait, maybeC you mean that you/others hijacked the thread from "HP announces new E Integrity servers" and turned it into the standard "Itanium Sucks" or H "Power765032++ 799M is faster" thread.  In the context of THIS group, itF indicates that new Itanium servers are available for VMS - and one canJ expect them to be a mix of bigger/better/cheaper than before - which mightK be interesting to VMS users who are interested in systems that run VMS - as   opposed to your standard rant...  L Why don't you just start two standard threads - publish it like a FAQ once a month - the L "HP-murdered-Alpha-and-EV8-would-have-kicked-everyones-ass-and-achieved-worl d-peace" one and theL "Itanium-is-a-sorry-piece-of-crap-and-everything-else-is-better-why-doesn't- Intel-kill-it" one.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:43:07 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers G Message-ID: <qc6dnfvv_oVhR5TYnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    FredK wrote:7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message C > news:qNSdnRMSHPXr1pXYnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com...  >> bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  >>> Bill Todd wrote: >>>> FredK wrote: 6 >>>>> Cool.  How fast does VMS run on the Power5+ 4+M?L >>>> I'm not sure how that would be relevant to this sub-topic, unless HP isI >>>> actually touting price/performance metrics for VMS on Superdome (see J >>>> above context).  That would be great, since I can't remember the last= >>>> time VMS's owners bothered to benchmark anything on VMS.  >>>>L >>>> Of course, if VMS were to be ported to a platform as estimable as POWERK >>>> (if that's what you were obliquely referring to) that would be nice as J >>>> well (though I'd have to suggest that porting to x86-64 should likely > be >>>> a higher priority). >>> it is very relevant 0 >> No, boob - you're just as clueless as always. >>F >> The sub-topic was about the *price/performance figures* for the newD >> Integrity servers - so unless any of the quantitative performanceJ >> information was obtained in a VMS environment it had nothing to do with > VMS. > = > Wow.  News has subtopics?  I need to get a new news reader.   - No, Fred - but a new brain would likely help.       But wait, maybeE > you mean that you/others hijacked the thread from "HP announces new G > Integrity servers" and turned it into the standard "Itanium Sucks" or ( > "Power765032++ 799M is faster" thread.  H Not at all - and since you clearly don't have a clue why, I'll help you A out (charitably assuming that you're not completely beyond help):   ' I initially responded to the following:   F "hp are claiming impressive price/performance figures and I think they look very nice    "What do people think of these?"  C You will note (as I've noted at least twice already since your own  E irrelevant response, but I guess that wasn't sufficient to penetrate  C your skull) that the above has nothing to do with VMS *unless* the  > price/performance data included comparative VMS measurements: F otherwise, it's a general statement about Integrity servers and their E price/performance relative to the rest of the industry (without such  H comparison, exactly how could it qualify as 'impressive'?).  And that's ! the context in which I responded.   D I can understand why you might not find such a comparison pleasant, F considering how dependent VMS is on this turkey, and can perhaps even D sympathize with your discomfort - but my sympathy ends at the point B where you start trying to deflect discussion from the unfortunate  reality of the situation.   G If HP didn't want such comparisons made, it should not have brought up  C the subject in the first place.  In the immortal words of our 16th  E President, you can't fool all of the people all of the time, and the  G chickens from HP's decade-plus of attempts to do so are coming home to   roost.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:02:56 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers G Message-ID: <Zp-dnQMcI8M9QpTYnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   ...   ? > Imho, consolidating HW is one small piece, but unless you can I > consolidate OS instances, you are not addressing the real issues of FTE 2 > counts - the biggest slice of the IT budget pie.  E You're still stuck in Buzzword Heaven, Kerry.  I keep asking exactly  F *how* Itanic differs in this regard from x86-64 (since their hardware F features are comparable and the available software, including OSs, is C pretty much the same on each of them - except that there's so much  D *more* software available on x86), and you keep dancing around that * question and waving your hands vigorously.  H C'mon:  surely you can come up with *something* significant (other than H VMS per se, which is only an unfortunate quirk of fate that the article B you directed us to pay heed to considers irrelevant in today's IT ; climate) that Itanic can offer and x86-64 platforms cannot.   B Because there are plenty of things that x86-64 offers that Itanic I cannot:  support from all the tier-1 server vendors rather than only one  @ of them, *far* wider support from lower-tier vendors, processor D competition that stimulates development, pricing that reflects this H breadth and depth of competition at both the processor manufacturer and H OEM levels, desktop-to-datacenter range, far more applications than all F other platforms combined (not that most of those applications are all E that significant to servers, but if you want to consolidate around a  B single platform all the way down to the desktop level they are)...   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2006 21:33:10 GMT) From: Hans Bachner <Hans@Bachner.priv.at> 1 Subject: Re: HP supported DVD writer for V/A 8.3? 0 Message-ID: <eecorl.43.1@usenet.bachner.priv.at>   Hoff,    I beg to differ...  - Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote:    <snip>  F >    Typical traditional OpenVMS usage of V/A such as that seen in the >    older price  G > file entries was VAX/Alpha, meaning a package or product or part that 4 > was dual-architecture (eg: the documentation), ...  J actually, traditional usage in the (DEC) pricelists was V/A for VMS/Alpha D and V/V for VMS/VAX. (I believe there also was O/A for OSF-1/Alpha, 3 therefore "V" was used instead of "O" for OpenVMS).    Hans.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:49:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India , Message-ID: <45099610.65325919@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:G > Lets see, even by my arithmetic, that's $400K profits (Ok, margin) on F > $500K revenue.  And someone wanted to improve the margin by reducing > costs?  Can you spell GREED?    H What if there is a sharp drop in contract renewalls and HP is seeing theC writing on the wall and is proactively moving to reduce the service F provision costs because it knows that the revenus will quickly fall to' below current service provision costs ?   H Remember that HP agrees with IDG's prediction that the move to IA64 willH cost HP 30% of its installed base. That is a 30% drop in service revenus right off the bat.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 17:03:52 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 9 Message-ID: <i4ednRLaErB5XJTYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:H >> Lets see, even by my arithmetic, that's $400K profits (Ok, margin) onG >> $500K revenue.  And someone wanted to improve the margin by reducing   >> costs?  Can you spell GREED?  > J > What if there is a sharp drop in contract renewalls and HP is seeing theE > writing on the wall and is proactively moving to reduce the service H > provision costs because it knows that the revenus will quickly fall to) > below current service provision costs ?   F Try to keep in mind that this particular occurance did NOT involve HP.  J > Remember that HP agrees with IDG's prediction that the move to IA64 willJ > cost HP 30% of its installed base. That is a 30% drop in service revenus > right off the bat.  D WOW!  Today's business tip!  Drop 30% of the customers and revenue. 6 What a great way to run a company.  (Into the ground.)  G If a company is willing to risk, let alone commit, losing 30% of their  G business, I'm thinking that they don't think too well of that business.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:11:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India , Message-ID: <4509D36E.38B4181F@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > If a company is willing to risk, let alone commit, losing 30% of theirI > business, I'm thinking that they don't think too well of that business.   F Exactly. And that is why I believe the VMS community must put pressureG on Hurd to port VMS to an alternative platform in order to prevent this I erosion and ensure VMS continues to be a very profitable endeavour to HP.   A Consider a scenario where Carly would have decided that Linux and > Windows will rule and that there was really no future for HP'sE proprietary systems. The strategy would then to just let them ride of H whatever steam IA64 has left and once IA64 is surpassed by 8086, let theJ market decide that there was no need for HP's proprietary systems anymore.  G The move to India may be in preparation to this since they may see much C less of a need to keep developping those systems. And in hindsight, G dropping the promise of porting Tru64 features to HP-UX in favour of an H easy commercial Veritas solution may also be a sign that HP doesn't have: much intenion to keep developping its proprietary systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 04:32:23 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 4 Subject: Re: Limiting bytlm within a spawned process0 Message-ID: <873bauqje0.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  * Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:  J > Another possibility would be to install the NETCU image as a known image > with the EXQUOTA privilege.   C No, EXQUOTA is only for DISK quotas. Got several sets of scars from  forgetting that over the years!    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:07:49 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c @ Message-ID: <craigberry-CB33E6.22074914092006@free.teranews.com>  , In article <J6oOg.37915$_q4.698@dukeread09>,%  Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:    > Ian Miller wrote:  > > bradhamilton wrote: M > >> I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird replace " > >> Mozilla on VMS in the future? > > 8 > > Only if someone does the port. Are you volenteering? > ; > Considering  and that FireFox is ported to several Unixes 7 > and that Mozilla was ported to VMS, then should it be  > that difficult ?  G I think there was some issue like Firefox needs a newer version of GTK  G than is available on VMS, so there would be an effort to update a core  1 library first before the port itself could begin.    --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:15:55 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c ) Message-ID: <op.tfwjgtsxtte90l@hyrrokkin>   4 On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:07:49 -0700, Craig A. Berry  & <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:  . > In article <J6oOg.37915$_q4.698@dukeread09>,' >  Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:  >  >> Ian Miller wrote: >> > bradhamilton wrote:H >> >> I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird  
 >> replace# >> >> Mozilla on VMS in the future?  >> >9 >> > Only if someone does the port. Are you volenteering?  >>< >> Considering  and that FireFox is ported to several Unixes8 >> and that Mozilla was ported to VMS, then should it be >> that difficult ?  > H > I think there was some issue like Firefox needs a newer version of GTKH > than is available on VMS, so there would be an effort to update a core3 > library first before the port itself could begin.  > G What is the point?  VMS is better suited as the web server, there are    plenty of good clients out there      --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:21:29 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c , Message-ID: <J6oOg.37915$_q4.698@dukeread09>   Ian Miller wrote:  > bradhamilton wrote: K >> I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird replace   >> Mozilla on VMS in the future? > 6 > Only if someone does the port. Are you volenteering?  9 Considering  and that FireFox is ported to several Unixes 5 and that Mozilla was ported to VMS, then should it be  that difficult ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:28:53 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-9CF184.20285314092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  3 In article <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, &  Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote:   > H > I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk > about slow!  8-)  " You know exactly what I mean then.  I > For this pass, I even dug out my TECO pocket guide thinking I could use H > DUMP to dump the diskette blocks containing the licenses. I could thenD > edit the output file to recover just the license text. It's been a% > *LONG* time since I used TECO!  8-)  >    Did it work for you?   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:29:55 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy 2 Message-ID: <1158261463_1053@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   Paul Sture wrote: 5 > In article <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, ( >  Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote: > I >> I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk  >> about slow!  8-)  > $ > You know exactly what I mean then. > J >> For this pass, I even dug out my TECO pocket guide thinking I could useI >> DUMP to dump the diskette blocks containing the licenses. I could then E >> edit the output file to recover just the license text. It's been a & >> *LONG* time since I used TECO!  8-) >> >  > Did it work for you? >   @ Allow me to rephrase... It's been a long time since I *tried* to use TECO!  8-) 8-)  Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:18:58 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy * Message-ID: <4509ab26@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Paul Sture wrote: 5 > In article <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, ( >  Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote: > I >> I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk  >> about slow!  8-)  > $ > You know exactly what I mean then.  I    Many of us have a visceral understanding, having been through it.  :-)   J >> For this pass, I even dug out my TECO pocket guide thinking I could useI >> DUMP to dump the diskette blocks containing the licenses. I could then E >> edit the output file to recover just the license text. It's been a & >> *LONG* time since I used TECO!  8-) >> >  > Did it work for you?  M    If you're careful, a MOUNT/FOREIGN and a DUMP will allow you to deal with  P this.  I've certainly spent enough time looking at FAT volumes, and yes you can P see the bits inside the files once you get past the FATs and other such.  Where P it gets "interesting" is if the source FAT volume has fragmented the file.  You M really don't want to have to follow a FAT chain around, if a PAK is "broken"  O across an allocation cluster.  (If you get a choice in that matter, pick a big  ' cluster factor to reduce the exposure.)   L    Me?  I have a serial line into the console, or a management processor or N similar.  Or a second OpenVMS system that can load the PAK file via removable L media, or potentially via an InfoServer (V8.2-1 or later, or using a "real"  InfoServer) service.  O    And at the cost of a blank CD or DVD -- even if you use a write-once format  O -- that doesn't strike me as an expensive situation.  If that cost really bugs  M you, load some (other) stuff onto the remaining space on the same recordable  J disk, and treat it as an opportunity to create a host BACKUP *and* a file O transfer.  One obvious use would be to master and build a bootable OpenVMS kit  3 of my own, and to load the authorized PAKs onto it.   L    For grins, I might suggest seeing of a Linux dd could be brought to bear I here, and just load the sequential file absolutely directly out onto the  Q removable media.  No disk volume structures at all, etc., just the blocks of the   file containing the PAKs.   Q    Yes, having to entire even the two or three PAK PAK "bootstrap" by hand was a  E sufficient object lesson to ensure that I have alternative paths. :-)       "I feel your pain."  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:13:16 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy 2 Message-ID: <1158282066_3601@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote: 6 >> In article <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>,) >>  Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote:  >>J >>> I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk >>> about slow!  8-) >>% >> You know exactly what I mean then.  > J >   Many of us have a visceral understanding, having been through it.  :-) > K >>> For this pass, I even dug out my TECO pocket guide thinking I could use J >>> DUMP to dump the diskette blocks containing the licenses. I could thenF >>> edit the output file to recover just the license text. It's been a' >>> *LONG* time since I used TECO!  8-)  >>>  >> >> Did it work for you?  > I >   If you're careful, a MOUNT/FOREIGN and a DUMP will allow you to deal   > with this.  B That's what I did above. One option to DUMP I would like to see isG a /ASCII_FIELD_ONLY switch, which would drop the address, data and file  offset fields. 8-)  @ >  I've certainly spent enough time looking at FAT volumes, and K > yes you can see the bits inside the files once you get past the FATs and  K > other such.  Where it gets "interesting" is if the source FAT volume has  F > fragmented the file.  You really don't want to have to follow a FAT H > chain around, if a PAK is "broken" across an allocation cluster.  (If K > you get a choice in that matter, pick a big cluster factor to reduce the   > exposure.) > J >   Me?  I have a serial line into the console, or a management processor I > or similar.  Or a second OpenVMS system that can load the PAK file via  I > removable media, or potentially via an InfoServer (V8.2-1 or later, or  % > using a "real" InfoServer) service.  > I >   And at the cost of a blank CD or DVD -- even if you use a write-once  G > format -- that doesn't strike me as an expensive situation.  If that  I > cost really bugs you, load some (other) stuff onto the remaining space  J > on the same recordable disk, and treat it as an opportunity to create a I > host BACKUP *and* a file transfer.  One obvious use would be to master  I > and build a bootable OpenVMS kit of my own, and to load the authorized   > PAKs onto it.   I I was not complaining about burning a coaster. I agree the cost is small. E It just would have been a bit more convenient to use a floppy to copy  the two license files.   > H >   For grins, I might suggest seeing of a Linux dd could be brought to G > bear here, and just load the sequential file absolutely directly out  J > onto the removable media.  No disk volume structures at all, etc., just - > the blocks of the file containing the PAKs.  > G >   Yes, having to entire even the two or three PAK PAK "bootstrap" by  H > hand was a sufficient object lesson to ensure that I have alternative  > paths. :-) >  >   "I feel your pain."  :-) >   D I will be adding mtools.exe to my user disks. I've stumbled over theI license loading problem before, but have always had other machines nearby B to copy to/from using the serial console. This time that wasn't an option.    Jeff Campbell N8WXS   Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:58:13 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com> Subject: Selling DS20e0 Message-ID: <12gjd2rndpmjpe2@news.supernews.com>  6 We have some DS20e Systems incoming at special pricing9 This is just for VMS users and will not be on our website     < Alphaserver DS20e 667Mhz with Low profile CDROM/Floppy Combo Dual 667Mhz CPU  2GB Compaq Memory  6 Slot Disk Cage On Board U2 SCSI 2 x 36GB 10KRPM Disk No Licenses    $5000     " These make excellent DR machines !         --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:02:36 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)' Subject: Re: TECO broken on I64 VMS 8.3 $ Message-ID: <eeccgs$75v$1@online.de>  F In article <w6NNg.13732$c22.2719@trnddc07>, John Santos <john@egh.com> writes:    > TECO broken on I64 VMS 8.3   Robin:  D Holy Intel Technology Batman!  We'll have to replace the new ItaniumE engine in the Batmobile with an old-but-fast ALPHA or we'll never get  out of the bat cave!    F Did I ever mention that Bob Palmer's hairdo reminds me of that of the  Joker?   Batman:   - You may be on to something there, Boy Wonder!   F Seriously, though, how will Elliott get his Itanium lawnmower running?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.506 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,185) <<< LIST /vax82b/vax82be >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,186) <<< LIST /vax83a/vax83ae >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,187) <<< LIST /vax83b/vax83be >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,188) <<< LIST /vax83c/vax83ce >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,189) <<< LIST /vax83d/vax83de >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,190) <<< LIST /vax84a/vax84ae >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,191) <<< LIST /vax84b/vax84be >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,8,