1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 16 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 508       Contents:# Re: All is not well at the HP board 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode 3 Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode A Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL A Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL  Re: DecServer woes Re: DecServer woes6 FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 Re: FTP strangeness & Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers1 HP Technology Forum 2006. Houston Sep 9/17 - 9/21   Re: HSG80 CACHE UPGRADE question0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to IndiaP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st @ Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it everP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st cP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st cP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st cP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES  Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES  Re: mtools, specifically mcopy Re: mtools, specifically mcopy OT except that it's HP...  Quid Pro Quo Clarrice  Re: SYS$LANGUAGE" Re: System won't self-test or boot" Re: System won't self-test or boot" Re: System won't self-test or boot" Re: System won't self-test or boot  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:38:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board, Message-ID: <450B0F3D.49B1B3F9@teksavvy.com>  E A congressional subcommittee on Friday asked Hewlett-Packard Chairman E Patricia Dunn and General Counsel Ann Baskins to appear at a Sept. 28 2 hearing about the company's surveillance methods.   F The House Committee on Energy and Commerce also sent letters asking HPF outside counsel Larry Sonsini and outside investigator Ronald DeLia to( testify as part of the daylong hearing.    ...   G The congressional committee did not issue subpoenas to require the four ? people to testify. Congress does have subpoena power, however.     ...   H In addition to the congressional probe, HP also faces inquiries from theG FBI, the U.S. Attorney's Office, the Securities and Exchange Commission * and California's attorney general, who hasG said he has enough information to charge people both inside and outside  HP with crimes.        -----------     F Note: Larry Sonsini runs an investigative organisation called Security= Outsourcing Solutions which basically hires unknown freelance O investigators on behalf of large clients.  http://www.security-outsourcing.com/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:29:38 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode9 Message-ID: <ZumdnXXX0vajcpfYnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > J > As it happens, the working theory was not the actual trigger here (data I > often has a habit of derailing theories), but what was recently posted  I > had sufficient data within to allow the identification of the specific  F > trigger from amid all the stack detritus that was located after the L > (missing) termination within your particular OpenVMS run-time environment.  G Is that a tease?  I'm sure I'm not the only one following this thread.  H Some of us may be interested in what caused the problem.  Since you say B it takes priviledge to cause the crash, you wouldn't be causing a , problem in going public with what you found.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:45:00 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>< Subject: Re: Bugcheck 3C4 Alpha 7.2-2 $audit_event User Mode* Message-ID: <450af4af@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Is that a tease?    Q    Um, not intentionally.  It really was stack detritus and very specific to the  P particular run-time environment, and something that was not reproducible in the M labs, even with the specified version and compiler and provided code.  Since  Q this is a privileged crasher and it's been publicly discussed, allow me to write  M up some of the details, and I'll post them over at the blog over the weekend.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:46:28 GMT ' From: jls <jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net> J Subject: Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL8 Message-ID: <k2tlg29mp73k0njk5ht5hihbur0ik0jkg8@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:53:37 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   @ >Seems LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL has some interesting side efffects. > D >All this time, I was able to do a PURGE myshareable.EXE without anyH >complaints about the file still being locked. So I had assumed that theN >SYMBIONT was done with the shareable image loaded with LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL. > A >Seems it wasn't. While the actual file may have been closed, the F >SYMBIONT process still maintained some structures on it, and the nextG >time a LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL was needed to map to the shareable image, E >it seems it reused some structures that mapped to a now non existant $ >file and voila: "access violation". >  > H >So I STOP/QUEUE/NEXT the TCPIP$SMTP_mumble queue, and restarted it. AndA >definitely a different behaviour. But now it seems to go into an 1 >infinite loop to process any message :-( :-( :-(   3 This is a well-known "side-effect" in RMS handling. D You get the same thing if  you do a VMSINSTAL of software and chooseD to "purge files after the installation".  Even images installed willD get purged, however often some processes maintain links to the older version.  > While the older version's disk blocks remain intact (i.e., not: re-allocated to another file), things continue hunky-dory.  F I once had DCLTABLES.EXE in a VMScluster purged without a reboot. UserF logins began to ACCVIO once the older dcltables.exe file's disk blocks got re-allocated to a new file.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 01:21:12 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>J Subject: Re: Debugging image invoked by SYMBIONT via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL> Message-ID: <MPG.1f751b906ad3abce989729@news.bellatlantic.net>  @ In article <k2tlg29mp73k0njk5ht5hihbur0ik0jkg8@4ax.com>, jeffls- nospam@sbcglobal.net says.... > On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:53:37 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > B > >Seems LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL has some interesting side efffects. > > F > >All this time, I was able to do a PURGE myshareable.EXE without anyJ > >complaints about the file still being locked. So I had assumed that theP > >SYMBIONT was done with the shareable image loaded with LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL. > > C > >Seems it wasn't. While the actual file may have been closed, the H > >SYMBIONT process still maintained some structures on it, and the nextI > >time a LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL was needed to map to the shareable image, G > >it seems it reused some structures that mapped to a now non existant & > >file and voila: "access violation". > >  > > J > >So I STOP/QUEUE/NEXT the TCPIP$SMTP_mumble queue, and restarted it. AndC > >definitely a different behaviour. But now it seems to go into an 3 > >infinite loop to process any message :-( :-( :-(  > 5 > This is a well-known "side-effect" in RMS handling. F > You get the same thing if  you do a VMSINSTAL of software and chooseF > to "purge files after the installation".  Even images installed willF > get purged, however often some processes maintain links to the older
 > version. > @ > While the older version's disk blocks remain intact (i.e., not< > re-allocated to another file), things continue hunky-dory.   I.e. for ever.   > H > I once had DCLTABLES.EXE in a VMScluster purged without a reboot. UserH > logins began to ACCVIO once the older dcltables.exe file's disk blocks! > got re-allocated to a new file.  >   9 Can't happen, at least not any time in the last 25 years.   C The header remains allocated to the deleted file, and the retrieval < pointers in the header remain valid, and the storage bitmap A corresponding to the deleted blocks remains set (allocated) until C either the last "close" of the file (unmapping the global sections) G causes the actual file deletion to happen, or until analyze/disk/repair C detects that the file is no longer in use but is marked for delete.   D The "DELETE" or "PURGE" doesn't actually delete anything, except theB directory entries (pointers to the header, which have no effect onD disk allocation).  It just sets the "pending delete" bit in the fileD header.  The file only actually gets deleted when the last (cluster-C wide) reference to it is closed.  (If this never happens, typically D due to a crash or to dismount/over=checks, then the header continuesE to be valid and all the blocks remain allocated to it, until ana/disk  cleans it up.)  A There used to be some bugs in this, back in VMS V1.0, where files F opened early in the boot process (before the file system got started),E such as the system dump file and the page file, could get deleted and A the file system would erroneously free the blocks.  This may have @ also applied to installed images, don't remember.  Anyway, these* bugs were all fixed literally decades ago.   --   John   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 13:11:13 -0700 From: glen.thompson@gmail.com  Subject: Re: DecServer woes C Message-ID: <1158351073.283498.299900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Glen Thompson wrote:E > Goes to 4 (requesting load) and when I issue the TRIGGER command it F > seems to restart. It never gets to 3 (load in progress).  This is in9 > another city so I have to do most of this on the phone.  > F > I did hook up a VT to port 1 and got all normal messages,  I got one5 > "Bad XID" message but that was just one out of 50+.  > < > "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote in messageE > news:8660a3a10609150341g6b449477y6e74e889750b2541@mail.gmail.com... . > > Nobody's mentioned the lights on the back. > > D > > Does it get all the way to the "crazy eight", or does it hang on > > something else?  > > 
 > > WWWebb > >  > >   3 The 3 above should be a 2 for the load in progress.   ? When trying the same operation on my test system, I get lots of > messages from the DecServer and LANACP written to OPCOM and to@ LAN$ACP.LOG.  It shows all the load requests, load attempts, andG results.  On the affected system, I get nothing in the logs.   The last D messages in LAN$ACP.LOG were from reloading the DecServers due to an  extended power outage on Sept 1.  B When I issue the TRIGGER command, I don't get the load volunteered message on the port 1 console.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:54:24 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: DecServer woes I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609151654t1b4a224aif275483f4487f2b0@mail.gmail.com>   E That's funny; it's been my experience working with organizations that D had hundreds, if not thousands of DECservers, that what usually goes bad are the power supplies.   I And you're on the same network segment as your DNAS software load source?   O Those wascally network folks are bad to cut off MOP because it's alien to them.    WWWebb  6 On 15 Sep 2006 13:11:13 -0700, glen.thompson@gmail.com  <glen.thompson@gmail.com> wrote: >  > Glen Thompson wrote:G > > Goes to 4 (requesting load) and when I issue the TRIGGER command it H > > seems to restart. It never gets to 3 (load in progress).  This is in; > > another city so I have to do most of this on the phone.  > > H > > I did hook up a VT to port 1 and got all normal messages,  I got one7 > > "Bad XID" message but that was just one out of 50+.  > > > > > "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote in messageG > > news:8660a3a10609150341g6b449477y6e74e889750b2541@mail.gmail.com... 0 > > > Nobody's mentioned the lights on the back. > > > F > > > Does it get all the way to the "crazy eight", or does it hang on > > > something else?  > > >  > > > WWWebb > > >  > > >  > 5 > The 3 above should be a 2 for the load in progress.  > A > When trying the same operation on my test system, I get lots of @ > messages from the DecServer and LANACP written to OPCOM and toB > LAN$ACP.LOG.  It shows all the load requests, load attempts, andI > results.  On the affected system, I get nothing in the logs.   The last F > messages in LAN$ACP.LOG were from reloading the DecServers due to an" > extended power outage on Sept 1. > D > When I issue the TRIGGER command, I don't get the load volunteered  > message on the port 1 console. >  >      --   VMS Systems  Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:27:15 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>? Subject: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 0 Message-ID: <12glvkp2jer3kb8@news.supernews.com>  H 7th Email to dturner@icusc.com gets a free Alphaserver DS10L 466Mhz with 30GB IDE disk and 256MB memory  I Shipping is not included: USA $30 Europe and the rest of the world please  call or email me !     This offer ends 4:20 EST Today   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:13:20 +1000 # From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate>  Subject: Re: FTP strangeness/ Message-ID: <12gmuf2rbaj5d4@corp.supernews.com>   M My reading of the RFC, possibly flawed, is that for the LIST command, 550 is  J not one of the "valid" returns from the server (OVMS).  Have I misread or  misunderstood this?     8 "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de> wrote in message = news:1158316788.056323.186190@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > Here is part of  RFC 959:0 > E > RFC 959                                                     October  > 1985 > File Transfer Protocol) >         550 Requested action not taken. A >             File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access).  > / > Btw. also the HGFTP client sends a 550 error.  >  > regards Kalle  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:05:30 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers , Message-ID: <450a970a$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message   # One note Bill.  Thanks for playing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:56:38 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers G Message-ID: <MZCdnTKsIP47spbYnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    FredK wrote:7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message  > % > One note Bill.  Thanks for playing.   H Any time:  some notes just improve with age (and I think my playing may E have as well - at least a great deal more of the industry - and even  H people right here in c.o.v. - seem to be humming the same tune than was  the case when I started).    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 18:52:04 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>: Subject: HP Technology Forum 2006. Houston Sep 9/17 - 9/21B Message-ID: <1158371524.277068.89740@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>  	 Hi there, C     I don't think I've seen a topic on the HP Technology Forum 2006 / It is in Houston 9/17 - 9/21 2006. (Next week). < The 'Usual suspects' are speaking on OpenVMS related topics.8 In no particular, and my apologies to anyone I missed...  F David Dachtera, MJ Vazquez, Wayne Sauer, Gaitan D'Antoni, Greg Jordan,@ John Egolf, Mark Hollinger, Andy Schneider, Bruce Ellis, StanleyF Quayle, Robert Gezelter, Brad McCusker, Bruce Claremont, Keith Parris,; Steve Lieman, Bart Lederman, Barry Kierstein, Ken Moreau,..   F I will be presenting 2 RMS session, and I just learned there are still
 open seats    Tuesday 9/19 08:00 AM - 12:00 PM; #1586 - RMS Indexed File Internals and File Repair Hands-on     Thurday 9/21 05:00 PM - 06:15 PM< #1587 - Maintaining and Manipulating Large RMS Indexed Files   See you there?' See you in the hallway, bars, parties ? 2 See you at DTW  airport Sunday noon ?(send Email!)   Cheers,    Hein van den Heuvel  HvdH Performance Consulting    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:53:44 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>) Subject: Re: HSG80 CACHE UPGRADE question 0 Message-ID: <12gltm043hlb2ff@news.supernews.com>  C You should shut down the whole thing - otherwise you get that nasty ! "unflushed data in cache" message ) Well, that's what has occured here anyhoo      --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   8 "BRANDON, JOHN M" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message+ news:06091510235475@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com... H > I have an HSG80 controller (pair) with 256-MB (each) and would like to upgrade  > to the max of 512-MB (each). > H > Is it possible to upgrade the controllers online by shutting down one,G > installing the cache, starting that one back up and shutting down the  other? > 6 > Or do I need to shutdown the entire controller pair? >  > TIA  >  >  > John "REBOOT" Brandon  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:12:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India , Message-ID: <450B0941.F3A13D66@teksavvy.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I > - Porting of VMS to an alternative platform has been stated a number of H > times as not happening in the current plans.  If HP wanted to kill offI > VMS they'll kill it (and that doesn't imply that any such plan exists). 9 >  Porting it to IA32 isn't going to make any difference.       D IA32 is an implementation of the 8086 architecture that is now dead.D Current implementations are 64 bits. So porting VMS to IA32 would beF silly. Porting VMS to the 64 bit versiono f 8086 architecture would be very smart.     F > - If HP abandoned all of their propriatary operating systems, they'd: > lose HP-UX as well as VMS.  This isn't likely to happen.  G I am not so sure about that. What if you have people within HP who have E managed to convince Hurd and his cronies that HP-UX has no future and  that Linux will rule ?  F Remember Winkler at Compaq who convinced upper management that WindowsF would eviscerate proprietary operating systems (Including proprrietary Unix) ?   H > HP are an enterprise company who make hardware, software and printers.  F HP is an ink company that is straddled with legacy enterprise stuff itC isn't sure about. It also makes consumer goods that are designed to  increase consumption of ink.    H Hurd appears to be smart and not making any rash/quick decisions on HP'sF future. But that doesn't mean that once he will have grown comfortableF with the company, that he won't change its philosopghy and not abandonF some of the markets were HP may not have a long term growth potential.H If the enterprise division is to lose 30% of ist revenus because of that@ unwanted port to IA64, that doesn't look to me like a big growthF opportunity and then becomes much easier to decide that thsoe products7 are not core to your corporation and slowly ditch them.   G The fact is that at this point in time, nobody knows what HP will be in G a couple of years. It could be just a printer company, it could be just K printers and wintel PC and servers, or it could be far more. We don't know.     E And this has some opportunities for the VMS community: If Hurd has an H open mind and no real decisions have been made yet on the future of HP, G now is the time to influence his opinion and convince him to not listen H to the Stallards/Winklers inside his company and contineu to push/expandA and allow for growth in the VMS marketplace, and that can only be R accomplished by porting VMS to a popular platform whose future is not in question.    H When Curly/Carly announced they would murder Alpha, one of the goals was@ to streamline platforms and move to industry standard lower costF platforms. IA64 has brought no such advantage to HP.  But if they moveA enterprise systems to the 8086, then it would clearly achieve the D originally intended goals of reducing the number of platforms, usingE industry standards commodity systems where competition keeps costs of ? components down and keeps performance increases at a high rate.   E HP would still need a "Superdome" system design team because its 8086 B teams currently don't build them that big. But Hp wouldn't need toF duplicate system design teams for the midrange (IA64 no longer has low2 end) and there would be significant savings there.  H And consider that IA64 has to be costing HP a lot of money to keep aliveH on such low volumes. There is no way that IA64 can be profitable to bothG Intel and HP at this point in time, especially if the forced move to it   will cost HP a lot of customers.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 15:19:58 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 3 Message-ID: <X0KxI9X0SkZs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <QvydneljGrdX95TYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > J > Isn't thirteen years enough?  And, of course, Compaq and HP after that.       Newbie.  8-)    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 15:21:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 3 Message-ID: <5ZGDhRw2tecH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1158315701.445071.214040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk writes: ! > three points to spoil your fun:  > @ > - 8086 isn't a current platform so will NEVER surpass IA64/IPFI > architecture.  IA32 may do, but not 8086. (and besides, didn't it start  > as 8088, not 8086?)       IIRC it started as a 4004.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:29:09 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India 1 Message-ID: <eefjr0$bov$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   G Don't know if anyone else has quoted it in this thread before, but this > arrived at the end of a friend's e-mail and seemed relevant: -  K "No, no, no. Your jobs are all fine, they will just be done by other people  in another country." - C. Montgomery Burns    Cheers Richard Maher  5 "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message / news:41SNg.2$4i6.1@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk... ) > Anyone from HP want to comment on this?  > 7 > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34342  > % > VMS support goes to India next week  > 2 > HP Leak of the Day (C) This must be embarrassing > : > By Charlie Demerjian: Wednesday 13 September 2006, 09:25H > LUCKY FOR HP that they caught the onerous 'mad leaker', this could getI > embarrassing for it if leaks continued. So, for the HP leak of the day, J > we turn to VMS, layoffs, and other things only a board member would have? > access to this early. I guess they didn't plug all the holes.  > F > It seems that a good chunk of VMS front line support is going to theI > subcontinent to save a meagre few dollars a month. VMS support was, and G > for the next week or so will continue to be, a world class enterprise I > support organization. Some bean counting twit at HP realised they could ; > save a few dollars a year by sending those jobs to India.  > G > Nothing wrong with doing this if you train your staff in India to the G > level of the ones you are replacing, and give them the support, tools J > and ongoing training they need to do the job they are called upon to do.E > HP is notoriously awful at doing this, if it can save a few dollars J > replacing someone with years of experience, it can save more by training
 > them badly.  > G > VMS is not Windows Media Center, customers take it very seriously. HP H > obviously does not, last time I checked, people with years of hands onF > VMS experience were a little thin in Bangalore. In five years or so,I > they will be up to speed, if HP bothers to train them right, until then ; > it will kind of suck to be a VMS customer with a problem.  > H > We are told the new crop of VMS supporters in Bangalore has "virtuallyH > no IT experience and a about a four week crash course in VMS support".H > It would be funny if it wasn't so sad, but remember, this is HP we areJ > talking about, unless you are on the board, nothing is out of bounds. Oh > wait.  > H > In any case, the outsourcing of jobs continues unabated. The replacingH > of people skilled in their trade with poorly trained people charging aJ > bit less continues. The leaks continue. The rapacious greed of the execsH > continues. What changed? The names on the doors of the corner offices. > I > Keep the info coming people, the best way to make roaches go away is to J > turn on the lights. So far, HP has caught more board members than any of > our sources.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:10:38 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India : Message-ID: <aIednR19QJSO0pbYnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  r > In article <QvydneljGrdX95TYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > J >>Isn't thirteen years enough?  And, of course, Compaq and HP after that.  >  >  >    Newbie.  8-)  >   5 That's thirteen years of ***DEC*** software support!!   , Add another six for Compaq and HP "support"!  E I got three copies of the "Green Card" spam on my VAX/VMS mail!  (It  ' wasn't quite the first spam but. . . .)    Newbie!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:33:32 -0400 ) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st  , Message-ID: <450a91e3$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J > I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird replace > Mozilla on VMS in the future?   K The public roadmaps have us tracking the open source project's releases for ' future versions of e-business products.   K Since mozilla.org has publically stated that Firefox is the replacement for J bundled Mozilla product, we'll be looking at porting Firefox in the futureG as the logical replacement for Secure Web Browser. No timetable as yet.     
 Rick Barry OpenVMS Engineering  Hewlett Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 15:32:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever 3 Message-ID: <hDsCJGRnmUPa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <450a55cd$1@mvb.saic.com>, Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> writes:   R > I don't believe that is the case.  I recently completed a "successful build" of R > Firefox.  When I get a chance, I'll go back in and find out why it hangs when I R > run it.  In other words, while I probably did something wrong in the build, all 6 > of the necessary libraries were, in fact, available.  F    Most likely an XtAppAdd<something>() that assumes the UNIX select()H    argument list.  At least one of the XtAppAdd functions is OS specific'    and needs to use event flags on VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:35:47 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c 9 Message-ID: <ZumdnXTX0vYzbZfYnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    bradhamilton wrote:  > Tom Linden wrote: 6 >> On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:07:49 -0700, Craig A. Berry ) >> <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:  >>0 >>> In article <J6oOg.37915$_q4.698@dukeread09>,) >>>  Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:  >>>  >>>> Ian Miller wrote: >>>> > bradhamilton wrote:I >>>> >> I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird   >>>> replace% >>>> >> Mozilla on VMS in the future?  > [...] I >> What is the point?  VMS is better suited as the web server, there are  	 >> plenty  >> of good clients out there > H > One could keep one's mail "database" on a reliable system with little I > downtime, and relatively invulnerable from virii and worms.  You would  K > need to use something like Sophos to avoid passing on such vermin, but I  ' > can see some advantages, in any case.  > C > For me, Mozilla seems to be quite a pig on VMS; my hope was that  E > Firefox/Thunderbird would be less resource-intensive.  Perhaps I'm   > mistaken.   E Just from casual observation I see Thunderbird being rather resource  C (memory) hungry.  After seeing FireFox and it's usage, I was a bit  H surprised.  Don't know details, but Thunderbird might not give you what  you're looking for.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:28:50 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c * Message-ID: <450ab8a3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Craig A. Berry wrote:   I > I think there was some issue like Firefox needs a newer version of GTK  I > than is available on VMS, so there would be an effort to update a core  3 > library first before the port itself could begin.   Q    Someone (nameless) around has owned up to a reasonably current GTK+ port, but  O hasn't cleared discussions, nor completed the port.  I've a copy of reasonably  O current bits.  Once cleared to distribute and/or to acknowledge, the bits will   become available.   O    And no, I'm not immediately looking to port Firefox and Thunderbird -- busy  Q trying to get my scheduled work and then my most recent midnight project out the   door.   J    The Mozilla Seamonkey build for OpenVMS is a somewhat involved process.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:39:51 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c * Message-ID: <450abb39@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   bradhamilton wrote:   C > For me, Mozilla seems to be quite a pig on VMS; my hope was that  E > Firefox/Thunderbird would be less resource-intensive.  Perhaps I'm   > mistaken.   C    I'd not expect a significant performance difference among these.   Q    Mozilla Seahorse (the classic Mozilla Suite) is one of the first applications  Q that has highlighted the relative age and relative speed of the EV56 and EV5 and   earlier Alpha processors are.   P    You need at least EV56-class box to use the suite with any reasonable degree N of performance, and an EV6 series box is about my minimum personal tolerance. H Mozilla Seahorse runs acceptably well on an EV6/600+ MHz DECwindows box.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:26:09 -0400 7 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL: Will it ever join the 21st c - Message-ID: <j9KOg.37990$_q4.1270@dukeread09>    Tom Linden wrote:  >>> > bradhamilton wrote: O >>> >> I've asked before, but I'll ask again - will Firefox/Thunderbird replace $ >>> >> Mozilla on VMS in the future?  H > What is the point?  VMS is better suited as the web server, there are  > plenty > of good clients out there   8 I would say that the web browser situation is much worse% than the web server situation on VMS.   
 Web Browsers: !    0/3 mainstream (IE, FF, Opera)     1 alternative available: Moz    Web Servers:    1/2 mainstream (Apache, IIS) &    2 alternatives available: OSU, WASD  3 If you mean commercially, then I don't think either 
 matters much.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:40:40 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES: Message-ID: <eMmdnWOfv9ExbpfYnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   BRANDON, JOHN M wrote:  2 > I was looking at the version of VMS on the ES40. > : > According to HP web site, the ES40 is spec'd for V7.2-2. > % > The version I am running is V7.2-1.  > J > Could this be a potential suspect for the MP synch problems I am having? >  >  >  >  > John "REBOOT" Brandon  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com  
 Probably not.   H I bought a pair of ES40's ca. 2000 and definitely before V7.2-2 was out!  H I was running V7.2-1.  One was single CPU the other had two CPUs.  They 8 both worked like champions until I was laid off in 2004.  E Later machines with higher rev CPUs might require a later version of  
 VMS. . . .   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:52:33 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: MP Synchronization ISSUES* Message-ID: <450af673@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > BRANDON, JOHN M wrote:; >> According to HP web site, the ES40 is spec'd for V7.2-2. & >> The version I am running is V7.2-1. > I was running V7.2-1.   I    V7.1-2 and ECOs and V7.2-1 and ECOs (and later) are supported for the  < baseline AlphaServer ES40 and AlphaStation ES40 series, per:  9    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html   P    I'd tend to expect the boxes to load and operate well enough to get the bits 0 loaded and to get the mandatory ECO kits loaded.  Q    There may well be other hardware present in the configuration that requires a  ! later OpenVMS version, obviously.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 15:27:00 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy 3 Message-ID: <NL7DsNJqdXrt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> writes: > H > I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk > about slow!  8-)  C    We had MV II when LMF first came out.  We got licenses on paper. B    I typed them in.  Beats loading the absolute loader on a PDP-11    via toggle switches.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:04:26 -0600 $ From: Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net>' Subject: Re: mtools, specifically mcopy 3 Message-ID: <1158364330_10079@sp6iad.superfeed.net>    Bob Koehler wrote:\ > In article <1158251512_28001@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> writes:I >> I have loaded licenses by hand into my not-so-mighty MicroVAX II. Talk  >> about slow!  8-)  > E >    We had MV II when LMF first came out.  We got licenses on paper. D >    I typed them in.  Beats loading the absolute loader on a PDP-11 >    via toggle switches.  >  Bite your tongue!  8-)  1 I *miss* the zip-zip of fan fold being read!  8-)    Jeff Campbell N8WXS     Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:25:15 GMT * From: "Paul Lentz" <Something@invalid.com>" Subject: OT except that it's HP...: Message-ID: <fgJOg.2237$IA.776@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>  J In 1973 as a student at Plano High School (Texas) I had the opportunity toG play on one of HPs Computers in Richardson Texas (supposedly on Arapaho J Road, kind of in the "Telecom Corridor"). The access was a accoustic modemI which was probably 300 baud, a dialup line and a teletype terminal with a I gawd-awful paper tape reader/writer to save stuff that was located in the H Math office at PHS. I think the language I wrote programs in was a BASIC like thing they called LOGLAN.  & I read some stuff about the HP 3000 atB http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/timeline/hist_70s.htmlL I'm wondering if there is anyone out there who could point me to informationB about that computer and that language. Any *OLD* HP people here???   Thanks!  *Paul*   http://www.paulguy.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:44:59 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>  Subject: Quid Pro Quo Clarrice1 Message-ID: <eefo9a$hm7$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:4509aebe@usenet01.boi.hp.com...* >more quintessentially Hoffmanesque drivel  K I was in absolutely no doubt that you would once again exhibit your special K brand of candor and openness when it came to obfuscating any facts from the J stinking peasants here in COV that, for some unknown reason, still seem to hang off your every syllable.   I What is Hoff? Do you think that as long as you can spin, deceive, and run ; away that you can some how stop the bleating of the COVans?   K Mostly, I ask technical questions, based on technical facts. Is it too much L to ask for a technical response? If so then please don't respond to my posts at all.   I > As it happens, the working theory was not the actual trigger here (data  often F > has a habit of derailing theories), but what was recently posted had
 sufficientK > data within to allow the identification of the specific trigger from amid  all L > the stack detritus that was located after the (missing) termination within your* > particular OpenVMS run-time environment.  H I don't care if there was more detritus there than on Tracey Emin's bed!J Which module put it there? When? and Why? If my theory got blown away thenJ I'll just have to try and soldier on, but I'd also like the answer please!K I've got the source code; what's been added/ taken away and where? What are I you so afraid of? And why were you so desperately keen to fix a bug in an I unsupported 7.2-2? Unless it also affects 8.3? I look forward to our next A round of *weekly security patches* (Hi Kerry :-) for the details.   I Must be a lot of important VMS customers kacking themselves with just the  thought of it!   Regards Richard Maher   K PS. How's your User Authorization Pseudo Device Driver coming along anyway? J I can't wait to actually see some of your code for a change. I'm told thatL your name finally shows up in the 8.3 source listings but I'm yet to catch aK glimpse. You're like Kwai Chan fucking Caine the way you can glide over the I VMS rice-paper for 30 years without leaving so much as a toe print! Truly  remarkable!   9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:4509aebe@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > I > As it happens, the working theory was not the actual trigger here (data  often F > has a habit of derailing theories), but what was recently posted had
 sufficientK > data within to allow the identification of the specific trigger from amid  all L > the stack detritus that was located after the (missing) termination within your* > particular OpenVMS run-time environment. > $ > This without the crashdump access. > J > I'd not expect a general ECO to be released for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 (as it's an K > officially unsupported release), but the necessary code changes needed to K > prevent this failure in the future will be folded into the OpenVMS source  code.  > ' > Thank you (again) for reporting this.  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:12:22 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE 0 Message-ID: <12gm5pni6060t84@corp.supernews.com>  ? "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> wrote in message  0 news:011901c6d75b$b95fb1d0$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX... > ----- Original Message -----  , > From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> > To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> . > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: SYS$LANGUAGE  >  >  >>= >> "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net> wrote in message  / >> news:CWUNg.4916$oj5.1901457@news.siol.net... L >>> You need to define SYS$LANGUAGES to include all languages, that need to  >>> be9 >>> defined and then run a SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM  >>> H >>> As for missing MSG and HLB files, you need to create/find them :-( . >>>  >>> Best, Gorazd >>>  >>8 >> I just found a 7.3 Master Index and the reference to ! >> SYS$STARTUP:LIB$DT_STARTUP.COM  > M > Besides the missing MSG and HLB files you might find that some commands do  L > not work once you setup a French Language (actually, the machines I setup M > used CANADIAN as the language). IIRC MON CLUSTER, or maybe SHOW CLUSTER no  L > longer works (that plant was sold to another company and I no longer have L > access to those machines to check which command it was). There were a few M > others like HELP/MESSAGE that just bomb when you try them. This was on AXP  K > 7.1. I always made sure that my account and the SYSTEM account were left  H > in English to avoid these problems. You might also find that you have L > procedures that parse out the output from commands that will now show the L > date in French and these procedures may fail now. I never heard of any of F > the end-users having any problems with the language set to CANADIAN. > M > I asked HP (Compaq at that time) if I could get French HLB files and I was  E > told that the multi-language software was supposed to be a layered  > > product, but the product was killed before it was completed. >  > Peter Weaver > www.weaverconsulting.ca / > CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP Reflection PreciseMail    Hi   Thanks to all for the tips. G I might want to try CANADIAN at a later time to see if it's any better.   J For the time being I had the programmer change his 300 programs (globally H with my search_replace.com) to use another logical name instead. He was   happy that was not much trouble.G I will not change SYS$LANGUAGE for the users, it may lead to different  ' problems that I don't want to get into.    Have a nice weekend everybody !    Syltrem    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:23:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: System won't self-test or boot , Message-ID: <450B0BC4.717278B9@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:  F > I have a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 overseas in London that just stopped > working.    
 Spank it !    H For VAXstations, there are issues with regards on whether the console isE done via serial port or via a graphics device. There is a switch, but F there is also detection of a keyboard and/or mouse being connected (asD opposed to a serial port connection).  Are there similar issues withH Microvaxes where your console would appear to be dead because the system8 is expecting the consile to be via some other hardware ?  C > him to press the Halt button. Still, zilch. He also said that the 0 > lights were lit, so it's not the power supply.  E Do you have manuals for this machine ? The lights would probably give H you a hint on how far along the system has powered up. And you'd want toM see them oprogress from a clean power up all the way to where they stabilise.     H I take it there was no power failure or power glitch and that the systemD just stopped working/froze ? Do you capture to log the output of theC console ? (there are  some nasty messages that come out only to the  console and not logged to disk)    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2006 15:27:58 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>+ Subject: Re: System won't self-test or boot B Message-ID: <1158359278.263094.34790@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > AEF wrote: > H > > I have a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 overseas in London that just stopped  B I sent email to my London cohort asking him to read the diagnosticE lights. My similar systems here have them, so the broken one probably 3 does, too. We'll have to wait till at least Monday.   E Thanks Paul for the serial number secret code explained! I guess they 2 didn't expect to make them for more than a decade.  G If it can't be easily fixed, we'll just keep it for spare parts and try  to find a replacement.   > > working. >  > Spank it !  ) Sorry, we're not trained in spanking! &-)    > J > For VAXstations, there are issues with regards on whether the console isG > done via serial port or via a graphics device. There is a switch, but H > there is also detection of a keyboard and/or mouse being connected (asF > opposed to a serial port connection).  Are there similar issues with  G Graphics device? We never use graphics on our MicroVAX systems. Switch? F What switch? Mouse? Connect it to what? The only graphics is the frontF end VB app that connects to the MicroVAX via telnet ports. On the back end it's strictly CLI.  J > Microvaxes where your console would appear to be dead because the system: > is expecting the consile to be via some other hardware ?   Nope.    > E > > him to press the Halt button. Still, zilch. He also said that the 2 > > lights were lit, so it's not the power supply. > G > Do you have manuals for this machine ? The lights would probably give   C I don't think so, but I'll check again. I have lots of those little G hardware manuals, but most of them are for machines I don't have! Don't 1 ask why; I don't know. That's what I "inherited".   J > you a hint on how far along the system has powered up. And you'd want toO > see them oprogress from a clean power up all the way to where they stabilise.   G Huh? The self-test usually starts almost right away. But it doesn't run  at all on this box.    >  > J > I take it there was no power failure or power glitch and that the systemF > just stopped working/froze ? Do you capture to log the output of the  A Right. Well, no one was using it at the time, but I had a regular E terminal session on it (with REPLY/ENABLE even!) at the time it broke ( and there are no clues on it whatsoever.  E > console ? (there are  some nasty messages that come out only to the ! > console and not logged to disk)   C No. I am waiting for my cohort to move the system disk to a working / machine. At that point I'll scour it for clues.    Thanks all for your efforts.   AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:05:27 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: System won't self-test or boot * Message-ID: <450ac141@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  
 AEF wrote:  = > Does anyone here have a guess as to what happened or make a C > recommendation? I am waiting for him to move the system disk to a G > working system so I can look for clues, but he has been too busy with  > other stuff so far.   M    That box appears hard-down.  Obviously.  Check the diagnostic LEDs.  Also  M start looking at power supply, fan, and other low-level pieces.  And whether  P mounted in a cage or not, do look at the integrity and continuity of the system Q power source. :-)  Or do contact your preferred hardware services vendor, and/or  J roll in your next backup VAX box, and/or (and you did know I was going to Q suggest this, right?) take a look at moving your OpenVMS VAX environment forward  % to an OpenVMS I64 system environment.   E > As an aside: How can I tell when any particular MicroVAX was built?   P    I can probably dig that detail out of the serial number and I expect you can K also approximate it locally from the component dates within the box, but a  K specific date probably isn't entirely useful -- we already know this is an  L OpenVMS VAX system, after all.  Last new VAX sales were circa six years ago N IIRC, and this system model is older than the last batch.  So there's a lower  limit on the age...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:00:35 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> + Subject: Re: System won't self-test or boot J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-15D15B.02003516092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B In article <1158359278.263094.34790@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,&  "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:   > G > Thanks Paul for the serial number secret code explained! I guess they 4 > didn't expect to make them for more than a decade. >   D I've often wondered just how old my PWS 600au is. Made in week 9 of B 1997, apparently (about the same time that I bought a 2 x 133 MHz / Pentium, which worked out cheaper than a P200).   > For general interest, I've summarized the original discussion:    VAX and Alpha Serial number info  7 From the comp.os.vms thread at http://tinyurl.com/hpxk9   8 The serial number can be broken into 3 areas...       9 The first two digits indicate the country of Manufacture      AB - Albuquerque, NM.:  AY - Ayr, Scotland                    :  BK - Germany                         CX - Colorado Springs, CO, USA   GA - Galway, Ireland   IQ - Somewhere else  ?  KA - Kanata, Ontario, Canada                   :  NI - Salem, New Hampshire, USA                PC - Irvine, Scotland    WF - Westfield, MA, USA  "                  :  The 3rd Digit indicates the year               : 7 = 1997    8 = 1998    9 = 1999    etc.      ; The 4th & 5th digits indicate the week of manufacture from  ; January.                             ; 01 = 1st week in January                   : 12 = 12th week after January 1st (End of March)      ; 20 = Mid April                          = For a rough calculation take 4 weeks to the month.         : The remaining digits indicate the run number.         ;  00005 =    The 5th one made at this plant        :  00100 =    The 100th one made at this plant        --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.508 ************************