1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 19 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 515       Contents: RE: A message to Kerry Main : Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs$ Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& RE: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable - Re: http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/ dead again? - Re: http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/ dead again? 0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India0 Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to IndiaP Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st P Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st  SET COMMAND behaviour  Re: SET COMMAND behaviour  Re: SET COMMAND behaviour  Re: SET COMMAND behaviour " Re: System won't self-test or boot Re: UNZIP Install for VMS? Re: UNZIP Install for VMS? Re: VMS/Alpha V8.2 zx2000 ? Re: zx2000 ? [JAVA] Installation problem   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:57:01 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> $ Subject: RE: A message to Kerry MainT Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401ABCC28@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20 " > Sent: September 16, 2006 3:53 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: A message to Kerry Main >=20B > IBM has TV adverts for what is essentially server consolidation. >=20C > It features blades based on the 8086 (Xeon). Not Power, Not IA64.  >=20A > If you have a gazillion instances of Windows on 8086, you're=20 ? > not going to be moving to that IA64 thing, nor to Sparc or=20 > > Power. IBM understands that and this is why it advertises=200 > 8086 based solutions for server consolidation. >=20  F The IBM x86 server division ran an ad for one of the products they areE responsible for. Nothing wrong with that, but that is certainly not a @ statement from IBM about valuing any less their other offerings.  E Fwiw, when Cust`s are looking at server consolidation these days, the E number one target by far (70% range) is the Wintel platform. However, G these Wintel consolidation solutions reduce HW, but not OS instances so C it does not reduce the number of OS instances, hence the FTE counts E remain the same. That is a result of the one-app, one server culture.    >snip..    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:55:54 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 0 Message-ID: <12gvtnhm3qks350@news.supernews.com>   Sorry folks   ! I found out what the problem with    IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again  K We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main : mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias)J Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point at& our secondary server the next morning.H That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on that@ address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly)    K I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly   5 So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again   L This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original configuration by end of day today 5:00PM EST  * Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST  C I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup    David      --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message3 news:P7ydnc2WbbxOWJPYnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@libcom.com...  > JF Mezei wrote: F > >>>> Methinks David is going come in for some ribbing at least, come Monday > > H > > One easy solution to this: he should give free systems to anyone whoJ > > sent him an email within a couple of hours of the deadlines on friday.L > > He'll still make money with the additional gizmos people will order (CD,! > > graphic cards, shipping etc).  > > C > > At the very least, he should have announced who the winner was.  > @ > How do you know that the original announcement was from David? >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 07:16:36 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 B Message-ID: <1158675396.577108.258720@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   islandco wrote: 
 > Sorry folks  > # > I found out what the problem with  >   > IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again > M > We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main < > mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias)L > Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point at( > our secondary server the next morning.J > That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on thatB > address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly) >  > M > I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly  > 7 > So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again  > N > This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original configuration  > by end of day today 5:00PM EST > , > Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST > E > I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup  >  > David  >  >  > -- >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@islandco.com > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html  >    David,F      perhaps its time to consider a new registrar.  There are a lot ofD them, and many/most provide better service, and better manageability than Netsol.  ? We use Dotster and have been very happy with it.  At home I use G DomainDiscover, which is rather basic but still reliable.  A lot of our G customers have settled on godaddy, and while I've heard some complaints B about it recently, it was highly recommended by the more technical folks.  G Netsol is pretty much the default expensive low end of registrars these  days.   - Good luck with the contest!  I'm staying out.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:02:38 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 : Message-ID: <pMWdnUr1_aAIm43YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   islandco wrote:   
 > Sorry folks  > # > I found out what the problem with  >   > IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again > M > We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main < > mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias)L > Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point at( > our secondary server the next morning.J > That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on thatB > address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly) >  > M > I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly  > 7 > So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again  > N > This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original configuration  > by end of day today 5:00PM EST > , > Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST > E > I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup  >  > David  >  >    You're still sorry David!   G "A message (from <rgilbert88@comcast.net>) was received at 19 Sep 2006   14:42:54 +0000.   . The following addresses had delivery problems:   <dturner@icusc.com> C 	Permanent Failure: 550_5.7.1_Unable_to_relay_for_dturner@icusc.com < 	Delivery last attempted at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:42:55 -0000"   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 15:14:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 + Message-ID: <4nafq3F9fu1oU1@individual.net>   : In article <pMWdnUr1_aAIm43YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com>,6 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > islandco wrote:  >  >> Sorry folks >>  $ >> I found out what the problem with >>  ! >> IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again  >>  N >> We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main= >> mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias) M >> Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point at ) >> our secondary server the next morning. K >> That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on that C >> address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly)  >>   >>  N >> I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly >>  8 >> So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again >>  O >> This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original configuration ! >> by end of day today 5:00PM EST  >>  - >> Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST  >>  F >> I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup >>   >> David >>   >>   >  > You're still sorry David!  > I > "A message (from <rgilbert88@comcast.net>) was received at 19 Sep 2006   > 14:42:54 +0000.  > 0 > The following addresses had delivery problems: >  > <dturner@icusc.com> E > 	Permanent Failure: 550_5.7.1_Unable_to_relay_for_dturner@icusc.com > > 	Delivery last attempted at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:42:55 -0000"  A I got a bounced message too.  Guess I am just not destined to win  one of these cool boxes.  :-(    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 15:45:18 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 + Message-ID: <4nahkeF97a24U1@individual.net>   : In article <hpmdnWfsusJLk43YnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>,6 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > = >> In article <pMWdnUr1_aAIm43YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com>, 9 >> 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  >>   >>>islandco wrote: >>>  >>>  >>>>Sorry folks  >>>>% >>>>I found out what the problem with  >>>>" >>>>IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again >>>>O >>>>We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main > >>>>mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias)N >>>>Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point at* >>>>our secondary server the next morning.L >>>>That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on thatD >>>>address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly) >>>> >>>>O >>>>I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly  >>>>9 >>>>So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again  >>>>P >>>>This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original configuration" >>>>by end of day today 5:00PM EST >>>>. >>>>Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST >>>>G >>>>I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup  >>>>	 >>>>David  >>>> >>>> >>>  >>>You're still sorry David! >>> J >>>"A message (from <rgilbert88@comcast.net>) was received at 19 Sep 2006  >>>14:42:54 +0000. >>> 1 >>>The following addresses had delivery problems:  >>>  >>><dturner@icusc.com>F >>>	Permanent Failure: 550_5.7.1_Unable_to_relay_for_dturner@icusc.com? >>>	Delivery last attempted at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:42:55 -0000"  >>   >>  D >> I got a bounced message too.  Guess I am just not destined to win  >> one of these cool boxes.  :-( >>   > K > Didn't all David's mail troubles start when he replaced the DS10L he was  5 > using as a mailserver with an inferior product? ;-)    I Too bad they can't afford to hire me as their SysAdmin/Network Guru.  :-) I I hear Savanah is a really nice place to live. (I only visited there once + but I liked what I saw and so did my wife!)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:37:52 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 : Message-ID: <hpmdnWfsusJLk43YnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  < > In article <pMWdnUr1_aAIm43YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com>,8 > 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: >  >>islandco wrote:  >> >> >>>Sorry folks >>> $ >>>I found out what the problem with >>> ! >>>IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again  >>> N >>>We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main= >>>mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias) M >>>Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point at ) >>>our secondary server the next morning. K >>>That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on that C >>>address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly)  >>>  >>> N >>>I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly >>> 8 >>>So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again >>> O >>>This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original configuration ! >>>by end of day today 5:00PM EST  >>> - >>>Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST  >>> F >>>I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup >>>  >>>David >>>  >>>  >> >>You're still sorry David!  >>I >>"A message (from <rgilbert88@comcast.net>) was received at 19 Sep 2006   >>14:42:54 +0000.  >>0 >>The following addresses had delivery problems: >> >><dturner@icusc.com> E >>	Permanent Failure: 550_5.7.1_Unable_to_relay_for_dturner@icusc.com > >>	Delivery last attempted at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:42:55 -0000" >  > C > I got a bounced message too.  Guess I am just not destined to win  > one of these cool boxes.  :-(  >  > bill >   I Didn't all David's mail troubles start when he replaced the DS10L he was  3 using as a mailserver with an inferior product? ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:27:06 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 0 Message-ID: <12h06j0i3rbvf47@news.supernews.com>   Sorry?  ; As in a sorry excuse for a person or sorry as in apologetic 7 If the former, then don't expect to win a DS10L !   ;0)    DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message4 news:pMWdnUr1_aAIm43YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com... > islandco wrote:  >  > > Sorry folks  > > % > > I found out what the problem with  > > " > > IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again > > J > > We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main> > > mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias)K > > Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to point  at* > > our secondary server the next morning.L > > That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on thatD > > address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly) > >  > > H > > I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly > > 9 > > So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again  > > B > > This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original
 configuration " > > by end of day today 5:00PM EST > > . > > Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST > > G > > I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup  > > 	 > > David  > >  > >  >  > You're still sorry David!  > H > "A message (from <rgilbert88@comcast.net>) was received at 19 Sep 2006 > 14:42:54 +0000.  > 0 > The following addresses had delivery problems: >  > <dturner@icusc.com> D > Permanent Failure: 550_5.7.1_Unable_to_relay_for_dturner@icusc.com= > Delivery last attempted at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:42:55 -0000"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:29:04 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 0 Message-ID: <12h06mm45jcn57a@news.supernews.com>  K Actually - the problem is not with the System at all ... it is with Network 	 Solutions I We changed our NAT setup internally and changed the MX records at Network 	 Solutions  They changed them back !  @ We're still trying to fix it - use dbturner@islandco.com for ALL
 communcations     > I still think we have less mail.webserver problems than HP....     DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:4nahkeF97a24U1@individual.net... < > In article <hpmdnWfsusJLk43YnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>,7 > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > ? > >> In article <pMWdnUr1_aAIm43YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com>, : > >> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > >> > >>>islandco wrote: > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>Sorry folks  > >>>>' > >>>>I found out what the problem with  > >>>>$ > >>>>IT was NETWORK SOLUTIONS again > >>>>L > >>>>We use NAT here - and the ICUSC.COM server was changed to point at our main@ > >>>>mailserver ISLANDCO.COM (icusc.com was then made an alias)G > >>>>Well, it was then for some UNKNOWN reason they changed it back to  point at, > >>>>our secondary server the next morning.I > >>>>That is why your emails. and everyone elses that sent mail to me on  thatF > >>>>address (we use this for dealer to dealer trading alerts mainly) > >>>> > >>>>J > >>>>I am trying to get it rectified with NETSOL - they operate extremely slowly > >>>>; > >>>>So, to avoid any unfair decisions, let's try it again  > >>>>D > >>>>This time we will give away 5 x DS10L systems per the original
 configuration $ > >>>>by end of day today 5:00PM EST > >>>>0 > >>>>Starting at 10:00am  September 19 2006 EST > >>>>I > >>>>I'll let you all know who the winners are tomorrow on the newsgroup  > >>>> > >>>>David  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>  > >>>You're still sorry David! > >>> K > >>>"A message (from <rgilbert88@comcast.net>) was received at 19 Sep 2006  > >>>14:42:54 +0000. > >>> 3 > >>>The following addresses had delivery problems:  > >>>  > >>><dturner@icusc.com>H > >>> Permanent Failure: 550_5.7.1_Unable_to_relay_for_dturner@icusc.comA > >>> Delivery last attempted at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:42:55 -0000"  > >> > >>F > >> I got a bounced message too.  Guess I am just not destined to win" > >> one of these cool boxes.  :-( > >> > > L > > Didn't all David's mail troubles start when he replaced the DS10L he was7 > > using as a mailserver with an inferior product? ;-)  > K > Too bad they can't afford to hire me as their SysAdmin/Network Guru.  :-) K > I hear Savanah is a really nice place to live. (I only visited there once - > but I liked what I saw and so did my wife!)  >  > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:36:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 , Message-ID: <45101C9A.990C3F63@teksavvy.com>   islandco wrote: = > As in a sorry excuse for a person or sorry as in apologetic 9 > If the former, then don't expect to win a DS10L !   ;0)   F Mr Turner, you are a very very very very very very very very very veryF nice person. I sent you an email to participate in this contest. Did I' mention you were a really nice person ?    :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:30:46 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 : Message-ID: <o_udna_4HrvQtI3YnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com>   islandco wrote:    > Sorry? > = > As in a sorry excuse for a person or sorry as in apologetic 9 > If the former, then don't expect to win a DS10L !   ;0)  >  > DT >   A Sorry as in apologetic!  Your network people are sorry too, in a   different sense. :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:31:58 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 : Message-ID: <o_udna74HrsOtI3YnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com>   islandco wrote:    > Sorry? > = > As in a sorry excuse for a person or sorry as in apologetic 9 > If the former, then don't expect to win a DS10L !   ;0)  >  > DT >   H Oh, and do let us know when it's working again.  If it ever works again!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:49:41 +0200 ( From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl>- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs < Message-ID: <e043a$450fa115$82a13c9d$20279@news1.tudelft.nl>   thick_guy_9 wrote: > Guys, F > We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI > CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 > to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)? >  > 8 > Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific?2 > In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso> > ; Any CD-burning/extracting program on any system can be used  Just either:         -Do a CD to CD copy 5         -extract an iso from the CD to the hard-drive )            write the iso-image to the CD.   > I normally use K3b on a linux machine to do this. But I do not? expect any problems using other software, provided that you use  the iso-image handling only.                      Jouk    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 00:48:04 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs B Message-ID: <1158652084.827751.223320@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   thick_guy_9 schrieb:   > Guys, F > We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI > CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 > to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)? >  > 8 > Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific?2 > In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso> >  > cheers...   F Never done that, but I suppose it should work . I normally copy the CDG into a LD container to make backup copies. For the purpose of upgrading A (esp. on older systems with slow cd devices) I create a copy on a F removable harddisk (those old RZ28 are very good candidates for this)," speeds up the upgrade enourmously.  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:53:54 +0200 ( From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl>- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs < Message-ID: <9d2c4$450fa212$82a13c9d$20762@news1.tudelft.nl>   Cluster-Karl wrote:  > thick_guy_9 schrieb: >  >  >>Guys, F >>We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI >>CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 >>to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)? >> >>8 >>Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific?2 >>In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso> >> >>cheers...  >  > H > Never done that, but I suppose it should work . I normally copy the CDI > into a LD container to make backup copies. For the purpose of upgrading C > (esp. on older systems with slow cd devices) I create a copy on a H > removable harddisk (those old RZ28 are very good candidates for this),$ > speeds up the upgrade enourmously. >  > regards Kalle     I That is another way note that the LD-container can be handled in the same  way as any iso-image.                         Jouk    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:59:37 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs 2 Message-ID: <06091905593760_20200290@antinode.org>  + From: "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com>   F > We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI > CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 > to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)?  G    Of course, "ISO" here normally refers to the ISO 9660 standard for a E CD-ROM file system, and that's not what's on a VMS installation CD or E DVD.  See, for example, "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660".  You E can certainly make an image file of a VMS CD (on Linux, or on VMS, or G anywhere else where you have the appropriate software), but it won't be , an "ISO" image.  (For VMS, see, for example,H "http://antinode.org/dec/sw/qreadcd.htm".  The cdrtools/cdrecord package= also includes a "readcd" program, which does the same thing.)   8 > Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific?2 > In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso>  1    I'd say "<blah.img>", but what could go wrong?   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 07:38:24 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs 3 Message-ID: <L+s7P0WryTpq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <1158640930.704799.233500@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> writes:  > Guys, F > We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI > CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 > to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)?  C    You can back up VMS CDs just like any other disk.  If you really B    want copies of all the empty blocks you can do backup/physical.'    backup/image is all you really need.   +    But how often do your CDs get corrupted?    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 14:49:51 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs , Message-ID: <4510038f$1@news.langstoeger.at>  q In article <L+s7P0WryTpq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: , >   But how often do your CDs get corrupted?  ) Every time I put them in the microwave...    SCNR   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:11:15 +0200 7 From: "Eberhard Heuser" <vaxinf@chemie.uni-konstanz.de> - Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs 0 Message-ID: <001201c6dbed$16958e70$05072286@vg2>   ----- Original Message -----  , From: "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> * Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:59 PM- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs     - > From: "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com>  > G >> We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the product J >> CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media7 >> to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)?  > H >   Of course, "ISO" here normally refers to the ISO 9660 standard for aG > CD-ROM file system, and that's not what's on a VMS installation CD or G > DVD.  See, for example, "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660".  You G > can certainly make an image file of a VMS CD (on Linux, or on VMS, or I > anywhere else where you have the appropriate software), but it won't be . > an "ISO" image.  (For VMS, see, for example,J > "http://antinode.org/dec/sw/qreadcd.htm".  The cdrtools/cdrecord package? > also includes a "readcd" program, which does the same thing.)  > 9 >> Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific? 3 >> In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso>  > 2 >   I'd say "<blah.img>", but what could go wrong? >   G i.e. Ahead Nero only burns images if the name ends with "iso" or "nrg",   	 Eberhard     ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:13:45 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs 2 Message-ID: <06091908134529_20200290@antinode.org>  7 From: "Eberhard Heuser" <vaxinf@chemie.uni-konstanz.de>   / > > From: "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> 
 > >> [...]5 > >> In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso>  > > 4 > >   I'd say "<blah.img>", but what could go wrong? > I > i.e. Ahead Nero only burns images if the name ends with "iso" or "nrg",   )    Those Germans sure are trouble-makers.   F    I have to explain the "Nero Burning ROM" joke to all my friends whoH understand even less German (and less about computers) than I do.  AfterF the explanation, they usually don't find it as funny as I do, however.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:19:46 -0400 $ From: "islandco" <dturner@icusc.com>- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs 0 Message-ID: <12h065a8airgmad@news.supernews.com>   Use this software    MagicISO (for Windows)  7 It will create ISO files from everything AND it is FREE    Do a google search for it !    DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   6 "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> wrote in message= news:1158640930.704799.233500@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...  > Guys, F > We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI > CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 > to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)? >  > 8 > Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific?2 > In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso> >  > cheers...  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:32:33 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>- Subject: Re: how to backup installCDs to ISOs * Message-ID: <450fff86@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   thick_guy_9 wrote:  F > We will be upgrading to 8.3 soon. While we are expecting the productI > CDs, I would like to know how to take backups of the installation media 6 > to ISOs (in case the original media gets corrupted)? >  > 8 > Will it be possible on Linux? Or is this VMS-specific?2 > In linux we'd do: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=<blah.iso>  P    As you indicate CD media, I'll assume OpenVMS Alpha V8.3.  (OpenVMS I64 V8.3 Q uses DVD.)  As such, you can simply use OpenVMS BACKUP/IMAGE and create a BACKUP  M of the distro.  (Within the usual restoration path, it's easier to restore a  M saveset.)   This is particularly useful for loading a distro onto a magnetic  1 disk, and then booting the distro from said disk.   M    As you reference ISO here, I'll assume a raw or block-level or a physical  Q disk image, and not a copy or a reconstruction as a ISO-9660 volume structure --  M I tend to prefer to avoid the "ISO" usage, as it can lead to confusion in my   experience.   N    And as for the specific question posed, yes, dd raw disk copy or such will P work -- that's a very traditional replication process that will work on all but P copy-protected media, and as the OpenVMS media is not copy-protected, it can be Q copied.  As for whether your licenses and agreements permit copying, you'll have   to review those.  N    There are also tools latent within OpenVMS V8.3 that can provide this same Q capability.  (Creating disk images, etc.)  The command CDDVD/COPY[/VERIFY] from:  N to:, and the pieces located in SYS$ETC: can provide this, for instance.  Load P the CDDVD$TOOLS.CLD file, and off you go.  V8.3 COPY/RECORDABLE_MEDIA (which is P the piece that knows how to control a recorder for write operations, CDDVD/COPY L does *not* know how to record data to a CD or DVD recorder) can copy a disk  image file out to disk.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 03:28:07 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers 3 Message-ID: <DzHzaN6EXc7W@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <4uydndYmRbla9ZLYnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   K > Tell me again why Alpha was dropped in favor of this 'industry standard'    6 Because Intel paid enough money to make it profitable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:21:53 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> / Subject: RE: HP announces new Integrity servers T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401ABCBD8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20" > Sent: September 14, 2006 7:03 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 > Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20 > ...  >=20D > > Imho, consolidating HW is one small piece, but unless you can=20J > > consolidate OS instances, you are not addressing the real issues of=208 > > FTE counts - the biggest slice of the IT budget pie. >=20F > You're still stuck in Buzzword Heaven, Kerry.  I keep asking exactlyA > *how* Itanic differs in this regard from x86-64 (since their=20 A > hardware features are comparable and the available software,=20 = > including OSs, is pretty much the same on each of them -=20  > except that there's so much < > *more* software available on x86), and you keep dancing=208 > around that question and waving your hands vigorously. >=20  G The difference is the overall package. With the Wintel on any platform, ? you have many FTE`s maintaining many OS instances, so even with H consolidation using VMware or Virtual Server, you still have a very high1 FTE counts - the biggest sclice of the IT budget.   D Yes, there are more aplications on Windows, but you can not run moreC than one in any single instance (technical, culture and ISV support G issues), hence high OS instances and high FTE counts to maintain these. D Just think of the monthly security patches and all of the associated2 pain these have on all of these many OS instances.  B With App stacking on OS`s like OpenVMS, you can get away with much5 reduced FTE counts from an Operations perspective.=20   @ > C'mon:  surely you can come up with *something* significant=20B > (other than VMS per se, which is only an unfortunate quirk of=209 > fate that the article you directed us to pay heed to=20 $ > considers irrelevant in today's IT= > climate) that Itanic can offer and x86-64 platforms cannot.  >=20  F The point of the article was emphasizing looking at IT from a business! perspective and not low level HW.   C > Because there are plenty of things that x86-64 offers that Itanic ? > cannot:  support from all the tier-1 server vendors rather=20 ? > than only one of them, *far* wider support from lower-tier=20 @ > vendors, processor competition that stimulates development,=20@ > pricing that reflects this breadth and depth of competition=207 > at both the processor manufacturer and OEM levels,=20 @ > desktop-to-datacenter range, far more applications than all=20B > other platforms combined (not that most of those applications=20< > are all that significant to servers, but if you want to=20A > consolidate around a single platform all the way down to the=20  > desktop level they are)... >=20 > - bill >=20  D No Customer I have ever talked to has ever mentioned they want theirE server standard to be based on their desktop standard. What Customers  have you been talking to?   H Ok, simple question - If a Customer chooses Windows or Linux on whateverC platform you want to pick, how do you propose they reduce their FTE < counts which is by far the biggest slice of their IT budget?   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:26:44 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers 9 Message-ID: <YOidncTb9tT_l43YnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:e > In article <4uydndYmRbla9ZLYnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > L >> Tell me again why Alpha was dropped in favor of this 'industry standard'  > 8 > Because Intel paid enough money to make it profitable.  / And what about when Intel gets tired of paying?   F It's like repelling down the side of a cliff, without having measured 5 the cliff and rope to insure the rope is long enough.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:48:52 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers ) Message-ID: <op.tf4t7qr2tte90l@hyrrokkin>   G On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:26:44 -0700, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:J >> In article <4uydndYmRbla9ZLYnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble    >> <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>D >>> Tell me again why Alpha was dropped in favor of this 'industry  
 >>> standard' : >>  Because Intel paid enough money to make it profitable. > 1 > And what about when Intel gets tired of paying?  > I > It's like repelling down the side of a cliff, without having measured   7 > the cliff and rope to insure the rope is long enough.  >  rappel     --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:04:14 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers G Message-ID: <XLudnQw9GpKTvo3YnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 3 >> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]  # >> Sent: September 14, 2006 7:03 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2 >> Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:  >> >> ... >>B >>> Imho, consolidating HW is one small piece, but unless you can H >>> consolidate OS instances, you are not addressing the real issues of 8 >>> FTE counts - the biggest slice of the IT budget pie.G >> You're still stuck in Buzzword Heaven, Kerry.  I keep asking exactly @ >> *how* Itanic differs in this regard from x86-64 (since their @ >> hardware features are comparable and the available software, < >> including OSs, is pretty much the same on each of them -  >> except that there's so much; >> *more* software available on x86), and you keep dancing  9 >> around that question and waving your hands vigorously.  >> > ( > The difference is the overall package.   *What* difference, dammit?  "   With the Wintel on any platform,A > you have many FTE`s maintaining many OS instances, so even with J > consolidation using VMware or Virtual Server, you still have a very high3 > FTE counts - the biggest sclice of the IT budget.   F So what?  That's not a difference between the Itanic platform and the I x86-64 platform, that's a difference between running Windows (whether on  D x86-64 or on Itanic) and running some more competent OS (whether on  x86-64 or on Itanic).   E *So it's no difference between x86-64 and Itanic at all*, and you've  & tried to dodge the question yet again.   > F > Yes, there are more aplications on Windows, but you can not run moreE > than one in any single instance (technical, culture and ISV support I > issues), hence high OS instances and high FTE counts to maintain these. F > Just think of the monthly security patches and all of the associated4 > pain these have on all of these many OS instances. > D > With App stacking on OS`s like OpenVMS, you can get away with much5 > reduced FTE counts from an Operations perspective.    C And Solaris on x86-64 offers exactly the same advantage.  So, once  C again, there's no beneficial difference (at least according to the  C philosophy advanced in the article which you promoted - i.e., that  @ Solaris = HP-UX = VMS = OS/400...) to buying a ticket on Itanic.   > ? >> C'mon:  surely you can come up with *something* significant  A >> (other than VMS per se, which is only an unfortunate quirk of  8 >> fate that the article you directed us to pay heed to % >> considers irrelevant in today's IT > >> climate) that Itanic can offer and x86-64 platforms cannot. >> > H > The point of the article was emphasizing looking at IT from a business# > perspective and not low level HW.   C And (surprise, surprise) once again we get no answer to the direct  G question about what significant advantage Itanic can offer that x86-64   cannot.    > D >> Because there are plenty of things that x86-64 offers that Itanic> >> cannot:  support from all the tier-1 server vendors rather > >> than only one of them, *far* wider support from lower-tier ? >> vendors, processor competition that stimulates development,  ? >> pricing that reflects this breadth and depth of competition  6 >> at both the processor manufacturer and OEM levels, ? >> desktop-to-datacenter range, far more applications than all  A >> other platforms combined (not that most of those applications  ; >> are all that significant to servers, but if you want to  @ >> consolidate around a single platform all the way down to the  >> desktop level they are)...  >>	 >> - bill  >> > F > No Customer I have ever talked to has ever mentioned they want theirG > server standard to be based on their desktop standard. What Customers  > have you been talking to?   H Hey, a "desktop to data center" standard was a good enough idea for DEC A to tout it vigorously two decades ago and for a lot of people to  I remember it today.  But if people here no longer find it persuasive (not  > that such a fact is yet in evidence), there are several other 2 significant points above that they may appreciate.   > J > Ok, simple question - If a Customer chooses Windows or Linux on whateverE > platform you want to pick, how do you propose they reduce their FTE > > counts which is by far the biggest slice of their IT budget?  @ Yup - you're dodging it again.  Instead of just posing the same G non-issue over and over and over, why not try explaining why you think  = it's somehow more of an issue on x86-64 than it is on Itanic?    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 11:40:29 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable+ Message-ID: <4na39cF9c3qeU2@individual.net>   , In article <450ee9b9$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,/ 	"warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes: H > boy you guys sure read a lot into a broken network port in a building.N > [there was a port that went non-functional on a switch in TAY. It got fixed]  G Yes, but even though people here ar always telling me that I work for a F school and not a real business, I can assure you that if the webserverH went down for any reason, hardware, software, network, anything, I wouldH have to come into work and fix it.  Day or night, weekday or weekend, itG wouldn't matter.  What does that say about the importance of VMS in the  grand scheme at HP?    > as for the OpenVMS server  > M > OpenVMS V7.3  on node VMS001  18-SEP-2006 14:38:47.65  Uptime  195 05:23:05  > N > 195 days ago was a planned site power shutdown for maintaince (probably will > happen again in 170 days.   G Doesn't much matter if the server is up if it can't be reached.  If the I network is a weak link, then the system is not available 24/7 wether it's  running VMS or Windows.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 12:58:10 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable+ Message-ID: <4na7r2F9e77tU1@individual.net>   3 In article <+jsNWkGtEszk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <4na39cF9c3qeU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:/ >> In article <450ee9b9$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, 2 >> 	"warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:J >>> boy you guys sure read a lot into a broken network port in a building.P >>> [there was a port that went non-functional on a switch in TAY. It got fixed] >>  J >> Yes, but even though people here ar always telling me that I work for aI >> school and not a real business, I can assure you that if the webserver K >> went down for any reason, hardware, software, network, anything, I would K >> have to come into work and fix it.  Day or night, weekday or weekend, it J >> wouldn't matter.  What does that say about the importance of VMS in the >> grand scheme at HP? >>   > F >    It says they have a better grip on reality than the folks at your >    school.  E So, what your saying is that my dinky little school is more important D in the grand scheme of things than VMS?  :-)  I'm a one man shop andB have to make the trip in to fix problems.  Surely an operation the@ size of HP has people working 24/7.  If they can't fix it beforeI morning it seems to me that they are saying it just ain't that important. ; I think that is what others here seem to have said as well.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:38:13 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable: Message-ID: <77OdndZsSppEnY3YnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  5 > In article <+jsNWkGtEszk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > X >>In article <4na39cF9c3qeU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>/ >>>In article <450ee9b9$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, 2 >>>	"warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes: >>> J >>>>boy you guys sure read a lot into a broken network port in a building.P >>>>[there was a port that went non-functional on a switch in TAY. It got fixed] >>> J >>>Yes, but even though people here ar always telling me that I work for aI >>>school and not a real business, I can assure you that if the webserver K >>>went down for any reason, hardware, software, network, anything, I would K >>>have to come into work and fix it.  Day or night, weekday or weekend, it J >>>wouldn't matter.  What does that say about the importance of VMS in the >>>grand scheme at HP? >>>  >>F >>   It says they have a better grip on reality than the folks at your >>   school. >  > G > So, what your saying is that my dinky little school is more important F > in the grand scheme of things than VMS?  :-)  I'm a one man shop andD > have to make the trip in to fix problems.  Surely an operation theB > size of HP has people working 24/7.  If they can't fix it beforeK > morning it seems to me that they are saying it just ain't that important. = > I think that is what others here seem to have said as well.  >  > bill >    >   I What makes you think that VMS is at all important to HP?  There seems to  & be plenty of evidence to the contrary!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:59:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable+ Message-ID: <451013F1.90C5A9B@teksavvy.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:J > > school and not a real business, I can assure you that if the webserverL > > went down for any reason, hardware, software, network, anything, I would' > > have to come into work and fix it.    F >    It says they have a better grip on reality than the folks at your >    school.    E Sorry, but a business critical system gets 24/7 support. And it means G that a business critical system has some operator on site 24/7. So even H though the system manager may be at home, when something goes bad, he isH beeped and he then gets the opertator to checks things on site for him.     G I am quite sure that the main HP web sites get that treatment. The "egg F on face" PR disaster should the media ever notice an HP web site being down would be too great.  H I suspect that the VMS web site is off-site (from HP's main data centre)E and doesn't have any 24/7 presence/support. In such a case though, it 4 really should have fully redundant hardware/network.  F Perhaps, the next time the VMS site goes down, people here should sendB the warnings to the Inquirer instead of comp.os.vms and see how HP2 reacts when it makes the headlines in the morning.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 08:48:11 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailableB Message-ID: <1158680891.632238.55950@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote: J > What makes you think that VMS is at all important to HP?  There seems to( > be plenty of evidence to the contrary!  B Warren's right - everyone's reading WAY to much into a web serviceG outage.  I'm sure similar outages (and quite easily even this one) have D taken down other web servers within HP, yet there is not moaning andG despair by customers that HP has dropped support for <insert HP product F here>.  Only here by people that appear to want everyone else to thinkE that HP is abandoning VMS in some contradictory belief that this will 6 result in a OpenVMS Renaissance of untold proportions.  E Comments like this have probably lost VMS more opportunities than you  know.   G It's a informational web server, folks.  It's not "mission critical" in E that OpenVMS stops functioning if the web server goes down.  Google's B web servers are mission critical.  Yahoo's web servers are missionB critical.  Given the number of security problems, WindowsUpdate isE arguably mission critical.  This is just a nuisance, and probably not ? something that HP can really justify in doing a full multi-site G disaster tolerant cluster with multiple nodes, multiple LAN's, multiple D tier-1 ISP's, multiple Telco's, and multiple power companies just soA you can read the latest "Ask the Wizard" the instant you want (no  offense to Hoff intended).  ; OpenVMS can provide unparalled service for mission critical A applications.  However, that doesn't mean that everything you use C OpenVMS for has to be "mission critical" and be deployed only using 6 those standards and metrics found at the highest ends.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:24:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable, Message-ID: <451019A9.A49F7B5F@teksavvy.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote:I > It's a informational web server, folks.  It's not "mission critical" in > > that OpenVMS stops functioning if the web server goes down.     G It is mission critical in that it is a main customer facing web service E for what is supposed to be an important HP product. If every time the F VMS web service had gone down, it had made the press, you can bet yourH <derrire> that HP would have purchased an additional switch from CDW toH provide additional redundancy.  HP cannot afford to have publicity about its web servers going down.   C If HP wants to sell consulting services to setup 100% available VMS G servers, it should first make its own little web server 100% available. B It is a bit like HP trying to sell you SAP consulting after it wasE revealed that the SAP implementation at HP had gone bad and costed HP   hundreds of billions of pennies.  D The good news is that customers do notice when the VMS web site goesH down. If nobody noticed the outages, then it would mean that the VMS web. site gets litte use and is truly not relevant.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:28:11 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable, Message-ID: <eep5qs$eit$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  ' <davidc@montagar.com> wrote in message  < news:1158680891.632238.55950@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...  I > It's a informational web server, folks.  It's not "mission critical" in = > that OpenVMS stops functioning if the web server goes down.   @ It's not. However, you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to< wonder why a company as large as HP, which is one of the big> players in the network management space, can leave a corporate@ web site offline for several hours. The obvious (though probablyA wrong) conclusion is that it doesn't rate 24x7 network ops cover.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 12:03:20 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable3 Message-ID: <gbqa50idjyNd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4na7r2F9e77tU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > G > So, what your saying is that my dinky little school is more important * > in the grand scheme of things than VMS?   3    No, I'm saying the people you work for think so.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 12:06:04 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable3 Message-ID: <2tprmu2VqnuC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <451013F1.90C5A9B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > ; > Sorry, but a business critical system gets 24/7 support.    D    Says who?  I've got business critical systems that don't get used:    363 days of the year.  When we need them, we need them.  E    More to the point, who says those web sites are business critical? A    What does that school have on its web site that's so critical?    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 17:26:42 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable+ Message-ID: <4nanihF9ginmU1@individual.net>   B In article <1158680891.632238.55950@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, 	davidc@montagar.com writes: >  > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: K >> What makes you think that VMS is at all important to HP?  There seems to ) >> be plenty of evidence to the contrary!  > D > Warren's right - everyone's reading WAY to much into a web serviceI > outage.  I'm sure similar outages (and quite easily even this one) have F > taken down other web servers within HP, yet there is not moaning andI > despair by customers that HP has dropped support for <insert HP product H > here>.  Only here by people that appear to want everyone else to thinkG > that HP is abandoning VMS in some contradictory belief that this will 8 > result in a OpenVMS Renaissance of untold proportions. > G > Comments like this have probably lost VMS more opportunities than you  > know.  > I > It's a informational web server, folks.  It's not "mission critical" in > > that OpenVMS stops functioning if the web server goes down.   D And people tell me that as an academic I don't understand business!!/ Any public face you put on is mission critical.    F >                                                             Google'sD > web servers are mission critical.  Yahoo's web servers are missionD > critical.  Given the number of security problems, WindowsUpdate isG > arguably mission critical.  This is just a nuisance, and probably not A > something that HP can really justify in doing a full multi-site I > disaster tolerant cluster with multiple nodes, multiple LAN's, multiple F > tier-1 ISP's, multiple Telco's, and multiple power companies just soC > you can read the latest "Ask the Wizard" the instant you want (no  > offense to Hoff intended).  C Maybe not, but in my one man shop it wouldn't have stayed down that E long.  Surely an operation like that has 24 hour network coverage and  available spare parts?   > = > OpenVMS can provide unparalled service for mission critical C > applications.  However, that doesn't mean that everything you use E > OpenVMS for has to be "mission critical" and be deployed only using 8 > those standards and metrics found at the highest ends.  J Everything that presents you to potential customers is "mission critical".H If your own use is so fragile, why would you expect someone else bet the farm on your products?   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 17:32:15 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable+ Message-ID: <4nansvF9ginmU2@individual.net>   3 In article <gbqa50idjyNd@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <4na7r2F9e77tU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  H >> So, what your saying is that my dinky little school is more important+ >> in the grand scheme of things than VMS?   > 5 >    No, I'm saying the people you work for think so.   H Which says more about HP than about here.  Every outage is a potentiallyJ lost student (ie. paying customer).  I guess the posibility of a potentialJ customer looking elsewhere when they encounter an unreachable site doesn't mean as much to HP.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 10:21:03 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailableB Message-ID: <1158686463.523514.292760@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > davidc@montagar.com wrote:K > > It's a informational web server, folks.  It's not "mission critical" in ? > > that OpenVMS stops functioning if the web server goes down.  > I > It is mission critical in that it is a main customer facing web service G > for what is supposed to be an important HP product. If every time the H > VMS web service had gone down, it had made the press, you can bet yourL > <derri=E8re> that HP would have purchased an additional switch from CDW toJ > provide additional redundancy.  HP cannot afford to have publicity about > its web servers going down.   E Give me a break.  And read what Warren wrote.  Buying an extra switch F was not the problem - the whole facility went down.  Dual NIC's on theB web server wouldn't have helped.  And if the tel-co back-hoe'd theF cable/fiber, it would still be down, yet that again (according to you), must show how little HP cares about OpenVMS.  D You know, even huge sites like MySpace have gone down, and you don'tC hear people screaming and gnashing teeth that the owners don't care A about MySpace or that MySpace is dead.  Most people have a better  reality check.  E > If HP wants to sell consulting services to setup 100% available VMS I > servers, it should first make its own little web server 100% available. D > It is a bit like HP trying to sell you SAP consulting after it wasG > revealed that the SAP implementation at HP had gone bad and costed HP " > hundreds of billions of pennies.  E So again you are going to personally disparage OpenVMS's capabilities G because of a piece of hardware that HP does not make?  Verily the Mezei F sayeth unto the unwashed masses, since OpenVMS's web server faileth toG walk through the valley of hub death, distaster tolerance is fruitless. 1  Thou should annointest thyself with competitors.   E It's a web server.  No one dies if it goes down.  Millions of dollars E are not lost if it goes down. Personal information is not revealed to G hackers if it goes down.  The OpenVMS world continues to work normally, E and I can always read Ask the Wizard later.  There's a BIG difference > between a "demo site" and a web server.  Get some perspective.  B My local telco lost service to the ENTIRE CITY a few years ago.  AG bizarre cascade failure on some power relays, even the redundant ones - D a real fluke event.  Took a day to get service restored.  Yet, at no@ time did I hear any one think that Verizon should not sell phone? service because they had a CITY-WIDE PHONE SERVICE OUTAGE.  Yet D according to you, a single web server carries this massive onus thatA the entire future OpenVMS is judged against......... I think not.   F > The good news is that customers do notice when the VMS web site goesJ > down. If nobody noticed the outages, then it would mean that the VMS web0 > site gets litte use and is truly not relevant.  G And the bad news is people like you make it harder for everyone else by B making claims that HP must want to kill off OpenVMS because of it.  B Let Sue know about it.  Let Warren know about it.  But quit takingG every possible opportunity to jump on a soap-box and make it easier for F competitors to kill OpenVMS.  After all, who's side are you really on?C It's a BIG jump in logic to go from "building network fails" to "HP ? wants to kill OpenVMS".  Yet, here you are, without even a net.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 10:24:03 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailableB Message-ID: <1158686643.715716.309160@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote: H > Perhaps, the next time the VMS site goes down, people here should sendD > the warnings to the Inquirer instead of comp.os.vms and see how HP4 > reacts when it makes the headlines in the morning.  1 Yeah, that would probably make the front page....    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:27:01 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable: Message-ID: <naWdnZpt_ZzxtY3YnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > davidc@montagar.com wrote: > I >>It's a informational web server, folks.  It's not "mission critical" in > >>that OpenVMS stops functioning if the web server goes down.  >  >  > I > It is mission critical in that it is a main customer facing web service G > for what is supposed to be an important HP product. If every time the H > VMS web service had gone down, it had made the press, you can bet yourJ > <derrire> that HP would have purchased an additional switch from CDW to" > provide additional redundancy.    B HP *makes* network switches.  This isn't an adverstisement for HP  switches either!!!!   D Maybe there's a reason why I've NEVER seen an HP switch except as a # picture in a PC Connection catalog.    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 17:41:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable+ Message-ID: <4naodtF9ginmU4@individual.net>   + In article <4nao55F9ginmU3@individual.net>, + 	bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <2tprmu2VqnuC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ >> In article <451013F1.90C5A9B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>> = >>> Sorry, but a business critical system gets 24/7 support.   >>  G >>    Says who?  I've got business critical systems that don't get used = >>    363 days of the year.  When we need them, we need them.  >>  H >>    More to the point, who says those web sites are business critical?D >>    What does that school have on its web site that's so critical? > J > The information that potential students (ie. potential paying customers)H > use to decide at which school they are going to pay their tuition.  OrF > are you another one of those people who don't think that Univerities/                                           ^^^^^ 3 ooops...                                Remove this    > aren't really businesses.  >  > bill >    >    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:17:29 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 6 Subject: Re: http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/ dead again?< Message-ID: <450fd01a$0$24214$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  8 "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in message & news:450ee877$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...L > Hey here's a new one. Bad port on a switch. they changed the port and now  > it > works.: > it wasn't the OpenVMS site just the entire TAY facility. > ( Thanks for the update but what is "TAY"?  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:38:57 -0400 % From: Shugbear <shugbear@comcast.net> 6 Subject: Re: http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/ dead again?+ Message-ID: <eeov8m$lie$1@news.process.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: : > "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in message ( > news:450ee877$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...M >> Hey here's a new one. Bad port on a switch. they changed the port and now   >> it 	 >> works. ; >> it wasn't the OpenVMS site just the entire TAY facility.  >>* > Thanks for the update but what is "TAY"? >     E TAY is the facility code for the Taylor St. building in Littleton MA.        --  K +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ D Michael Corbett                           Email: Corbett@process.comB Process Software                          Phone: 800 722-7770 x369B 959 Concord St.                                  508 879-6994 x369= Framingham MA 01701-4682                  FAX:   508 879-0042    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:51:09 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India * Message-ID: <450f06bb@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   roger wrote:; > Let's at least get the name of the architecture right...  K > We are asking for a port of VMS to IA32e; or some chip based on the IA32e I > (i.e. modern PC standard hardware, either made by Intel or AMD.).  This I > may require working with Intel or AMD to get a few minor changes in the G > architecture (better support of 4 modes for example, more bits in the I > PTEs for VMS); but whatever it takes --- port the DAMN thing, and do it  > quickly...  Q    An OpenVMS port to Intel IA-32e/AMD AMD64/x86-64/etc, nor any plans for same,   is not something I'm aware of.  I    I'm also not aware of any discussions nor any plans for or around the  P open-sourcing of OpenVMS and of its core associated pieces; well, not since the P customer discussions circa Providence DECUS 1999.  (The feedback from customers G around the proposal back then was basically negative, too, based on my  P recollection of the many customers that spoke at the Birds of a Feather meeting > on the topic of open-sourcing it.  Which surprised me, but...)  N    As to the comment around the processor terminology, it's a good one -- but I it's not one I'd expect to see have any affect based solely on empirical  O evidence.  An Intel 8086 16-bit port is basically not possible -- not and have  Q the outcome of the effort look even remotely like an OpenVMS system, nor to have  H the results perform at anything better than decades-back glacial speeds.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:15:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India , Message-ID: <450FA6FC.B568FDB1@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: R >    An OpenVMS port to Intel IA-32e/AMD AMD64/x86-64/etc, nor any plans for same,  > is not something I'm aware of.  G Subtle change here... No longer the authoritative "there are no plans", - but rather "I am not aware of any plans". :-)   ? BTW, as an incentive to get me to stop using the 8086 monicker:   < Once VMS engineering decides on the string to be returned byE F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") for the port of VMS to the industry standard 64 D bit 8086 architecture, then I promise to stop using 8086 and use the# string selected by VMS engineering.   J >    I'm also not aware of any discussions nor any plans for or around the> > open-sourcing of OpenVMS and of its core associated pieces;   @ Is there some official list of components that make up the "core associated pieces" ?   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 10:51:00 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India + Message-ID: <4na0cjF98icmU1@individual.net>   * In article <450f06bb@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,/ 	Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes:  > roger wrote:< >> Let's at least get the name of the architecture right... L >> We are asking for a port of VMS to IA32e; or some chip based on the IA32eJ >> (i.e. modern PC standard hardware, either made by Intel or AMD.).  ThisJ >> may require working with Intel or AMD to get a few minor changes in theH >> architecture (better support of 4 modes for example, more bits in theJ >> PTEs for VMS); but whatever it takes --- port the DAMN thing, and do it
 >> quickly...  > S >    An OpenVMS port to Intel IA-32e/AMD AMD64/x86-64/etc, nor any plans for same,    > is not something I'm aware of.  M So you keep saying, but people here just can't read the writting on the wall!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 19 Sep 2006 11:35:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: Inquirer on VMS support outsourcing to India + Message-ID: <4na302F9c3qeU1@individual.net>   , In article <450FA6FC.B568FDB1@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Hoff Hoffman wrote: S >>    An OpenVMS port to Intel IA-32e/AMD AMD64/x86-64/etc, nor any plans for same, ! >> is not something I'm aware of.  > I > Subtle change here... No longer the authoritative "there are no plans", / > but rather "I am not aware of any plans". :-)   F See what I mean about not being able to read the writting ont he wall?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:28:02 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st  B Message-ID: <0001HW.C135CB120039CCD8F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  4 On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:45:25 +0200, Alan Greig wrote= (in article <FDRPg.15454$wg.3629@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>):    > Paul Sture wrote:  >  >>  I >> Inspired by that, I have just given Thunderbird another go in offline    >> mode. What a frigging hassle! >>  I >> The Download/sync function doesn't download message bodies (and takes  	 >> ages).  > D > I can guarantee you it downloads message bodies for me. I've just H > checked again. This is 1.5.0.7 under Windows XP. Maybe I've checked a I > few more options somewhere. I think download headers only might be the  
 > default.  L I have 1.5.05, but I don't imagine that should make any difference. I first G discovered this problem some 18 months ago when "on the road". On that  N occasion I shelled out for more connect time than should have been necessary,  and it niggles.    > K >> However, if I sort by date, select the latest messages, then do File ->  J >> Offline -> Get selected message, that does grab the message bodies for  >> offline use.  > & > I definitely didn't have to do that. > A >> Please let me know if there's a better way, and I'll try that. I >> I'm using the OS X version of Thunderbird, if that makes a difference.  > J > What kind of messages are you trying with? POP, IMAP, NNTP or all three?L > Make sure in server settings you do not have "fetch headers only" checked.  N Just NNTP. I am now trying again with POP as well, and that is hanging trying . to collect mail, so maybe that is the problem.  K One clue however is that in the server setting for mail, there is a "fetch  K headers only" checkbox, which isn't there in the corresponding news server  	 dialogue.    I'll persist... :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:45:25 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>Y Subject: Re: Mozilla Thunderbird with VMS (was:Re: VMS MAIL:  Will it ever join the 21st  ; Message-ID: <FDRPg.15454$wg.3629@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Paul Sture wrote:    > H > Inspired by that, I have just given Thunderbird another go in offline  > mode. What a frigging hassle!  > H > The Download/sync function doesn't download message bodies (and takes  > ages).  B I can guarantee you it downloads message bodies for me. I've just F checked again. This is 1.5.0.7 under Windows XP. Maybe I've checked a G few more options somewhere. I think download headers only might be the   default.    J > However, if I sort by date, select the latest messages, then do File -> I > Offline -> Get selected message, that does grab the message bodies for   > offline use.  $ I definitely didn't have to do that.  @ > Please let me know if there's a better way, and I'll try that.H > I'm using the OS X version of Thunderbird, if that makes a difference.  H What kind of messages are you trying with? POP, IMAP, NNTP or all three?J Make sure in server settings you do not have "fetch headers only" checked.    G > To be honest, I have another solution now, using leafnode on my Mac.  K > Leafnode is a "mini" news server, which I am using for batch connections  B > to my ISP's news server. Thunderbird doesn't like it, but other & > newsreaders are quite happy with it. >      --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 14:29:45 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: SET COMMAND behaviour, Message-ID: <450ffed9$1@news.langstoeger.at>  B I just noted a (for me unexpected) behaviour of SET COMMAND. I did  A $ SET COM/TAB=SYS$SHARE:DCLTABLES/OUT=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB] TDC$DCL   E and got a %CDU-E-OPENIN (RMS-E-FNF, I had the default dir wrong). Ok. C But though I got a -E- abort, I got a new version of the DCLTABLES.   " Is this intended behaviour of CDU? I personally don't think so...   TIA    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:50:56 +0300 ; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> " Subject: Re: SET COMMAND behaviour9 Message-ID: <450fe8bf$0$19707$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message & news:450ffed9$1@news.langstoeger.at...D > I just noted a (for me unexpected) behaviour of SET COMMAND. I did > C > $ SET COM/TAB=SYS$SHARE:DCLTABLES/OUT=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB] TDC$DCL  > G > and got a %CDU-E-OPENIN (RMS-E-FNF, I had the default dir wrong). Ok. E > But though I got a -E- abort, I got a new version of the DCLTABLES.  > $ > Is this intended behaviour of CDU?   Sounds like a bug.   What VMS version?   6 Are there any differences between the existing version and the newly created one?  > I personally don't think so... >  > TIA  >  > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist       --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 17:25:02 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: SET COMMAND behaviour, Message-ID: <451027ee$1@news.langstoeger.at>  w In article <450fe8bf$0$19707$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> writes: k >"Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message news:450ffed9$1@news.langstoeger.at... E >> I just noted a (for me unexpected) behaviour of SET COMMAND. I did  >>D >> $ SET COM/TAB=SYS$SHARE:DCLTABLES/OUT=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB] TDC$DCL >>H >> and got a %CDU-E-OPENIN (RMS-E-FNF, I had the default dir wrong). Ok.F >> But though I got a -E- abort, I got a new version of the DCLTABLES. >>% >> Is this intended behaviour of CDU?  >  >Sounds like a bug.   ! Thanks. But who fixes it now? ;-)    >What VMS version?   OpenVMS Alpha V8.2  7 >Are there any differences between the existing version  >and the newly created one?    DIFF finds none.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:16:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: SET COMMAND behaviour+ Message-ID: <451017C7.714BF57@teksavvy.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:   > Guy Peleg wrote: > >Sounds like a bug.  > # > Thanks. But who fixes it now? ;-)     F Announcing the outsourcing of DCL to Bruden Technologies OSCG  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)     G One possibility is that the SET COMMAND  does the /TABLE=/OUTPUT= first 2 and then adds the additional command definitions.     A This might be in line with LIBRARY (and FMS), and even the DELETE E command.  If you give DELETE multiple file names, it will succesfully H delete all the valid file names even though one of the speficications in, the middle may point to a non existant file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:23:20 -0500 . From: Bob Blunt <RobertDOTblunt@digitalDOTcom>+ Subject: Re: System won't self-test or boot : Message-ID: <SfednaG2HY6xl43YnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>  
 AEF wrote: > Hi,  > F > I have a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 overseas in London that just stoppedF > working. Fortunately this happened during non-production hours and IE > had plenty of time to switch to the backup system. Also, daily data H > files were successfully copied to another system, so no data was lost.E > So this is not an urgent problem. (I have yet another backup system " > ready in case of more problems.) >  > I got an alarm from Spectrum:  > H > Device XXXXXX of type GnSNMPDev has stopped responding to polls and/or > external requests. > E > My cohort in London said there was zero response on the console. No H > prompt. Nothing. He "rebooted". I assume he meant power-cycled. Still,I > nothing. No prompt, no self-tests. He hooked it up to a terminal server F > that I then connected to. He power-cycled it again. Nothing. I askedC > him to press the Halt button. Still, zilch. He also said that the 0 > lights were lit, so it's not the power supply. > E > I had a terminal session open on my PC overnight when this happened . > with REPLY/ENABLE active. Nothing from that. > I > The system is in a cage, so there was no cleaning person to knock it or  > other similar scenarios. > = > Does anyone here have a guess as to what happened or make a C > recommendation? I am waiting for him to move the system disk to a G > working system so I can look for clues, but he has been too busy with  > other stuff so far.  > B > The system is connected to a Storage Works tower where its disks& > reside. It was running VAX/VMS v6.1. > E > As an aside: How can I tell when any particular MicroVAX was built?  >  > Thanks for your time.  >  > AEF  > G If the fans are honked then the power supply USUALLY won't stay up and  D it'll just look dead.  If you still have power then all the initial A tests in the power supply, including fan operation, should be OK.   F I don't know offhand if there are any specific voltage samplings that I would also cause the supply to "crowbar."  If you have power and no LEDs  E on the back, you might try asking your remote hands to strip the box  H down to a basic configuration removing all the disk(s) and any daughter I cards connected to the motherboard.  Memory could also be suspect but if  G you get everything else out and it's still dead you might need to have  F details about memory configuration so you know which slots need to be & populated for a minimum configuration.  H A green power light should provide you with some LED output on the back H of the system, there are a series of tests performed before the console H starts receiving output from POST/PUST after the ascii ports are tested H and the console is initialized.  With the LED output you should be able D to discern if the box is worth saving.  Sometimes ressurection only 5 requires a simple reseating of the important giblets.    bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:54:04 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> # Subject: Re: UNZIP Install for VMS? B Message-ID: <0001HW.C135C31C0037EF2AF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  ; On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:01:38 +0200, Steven M. Schweda wrote 4 (in article <06091821013872_20200290@antinode.org>):     > From: hoff@hp.nospam ()  > B >> When last I looked, unzip 5.5-2 is current, and 6.0 is in test. > E >    We call it 5.52, but yes.  And Zip 2.32 (with 3.0 in the works).  >   ? Thanks. I've just made sure I'm up to date with those versions.   K Please all note that the versions of zip.exe in [000TOOLS] on the Freeware  ! V80 CD are those without the CLI.   D For the corresponding CLI versions, look in the [ZIP] directory for 5 zip_cli.%%%_exe (where %%% is one of (VAX, AXP, I64).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:45:40 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com># Subject: Re: UNZIP Install for VMS? * Message-ID: <45100291@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Paul Sture wrote:   M > Please all note that the versions of zip.exe in [000TOOLS] on the Freeware  # > V80 CD are those without the CLI.  > F > For the corresponding CLI versions, look in the [ZIP] directory for 7 > zip_cli.%%%_exe (where %%% is one of (VAX, AXP, I64).   N    Been meaning to change that.  The need for parallel images for CLI and for P non-CLI operations, that is -- that the non-CLI images were loaded and used was L deliberate.  It's quite easy to have an image with as many as three command O interfaces available and dynamically selected -- RUN and direct prompting, via  Q DCL verb, and via foreign-command.  Maybe in my copious spare time, and assuming  - the Info-Zip deities would accept the change.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 00:52:49 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de> Subject: Re: VMS/Alpha V8.2 B Message-ID: <1158652369.047175.57110@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   rexdale1050@yahoo.ca schrieb:   2 > i would like to upgrade from vms 7.2 to vms  8.2 > alphaserver ds 10  .A > i am using  synergy dbl    vt 320 terminals    diskkeeper    hp  > laserjet 5000 printers( > la 120 printers   dec terminal servers6 > is this a complete change over or only a few changes > thanks for your help > neil  C It is a major upgrade, check the upgrade path, but I think you must ' upgrade to V7.3-2 1st and then to V8.2. = Esp. diskkeeper may need an upgrade too, may be synergy also.   
 regards kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:34:10 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: zx2000 ? ) Message-ID: <op.tf4wa8jttte90l@hyrrokkin>   = Just powered one up using the console interface to hyperterm, < which is set 9600-8-N-1, the keyboard thru hyperterm doesn't= seem to respond, but it displayed a Redhat login prompt.  Are  the settings wrong?    =7FAT 1 Red Hat Enterprise Linux release 2.9.5AS (Taroon) ! Kernel 2.4.21-4.0.1.EL on an ia64     cn-sfo1-pma-ia64.cnet.com login:   -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:38:28 GMT  From: hoff@hp.nospam ()  Subject: Re: zx2000 ? / Message-ID: <oWVPg.181$S_6.48@news.cpqcorp.net>   V In article <op.tf4wa8jttte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes:@ |> Just powered one up using the console interface to hyperterm,? |> which is set 9600-8-N-1, the keyboard thru hyperterm doesn't @ |> seem to respond, but it displayed a Redhat login prompt.  Are |> the settings wrong?  E   So the central question here is that you didn't see any EFI console @ output, but you did see (apparently once the box booted) RedHat?  =   For testing, can you try a different or a "real" terminal?    D   And FWIW, PuTTY and VTstar or the Hyperterm product -- the versionG that's presently available, rather than the older and more limited one  E integrated into Microsoft Windows -- are likely better emulators, if   you need VT100-class access.    C   Can you enable autobaud on (whatever) the terminal?  The default  6 speed for EFI serial can be far above 9600 baud, FWIW.  A   Does this particular box have a management processor installed?    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2006 19:32:41 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: [JAVA] Installation problem, Message-ID: <451045d9$1@news.langstoeger.at>  L I just updated JAVA150 from V1.5-1 to V1.5-2 (I fact I did a remove and then' later an install) and noticed problems.   F JAVA150 V1.5-2 needs now a SET PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED before theG PRODUCT INSTALL JAVA150 command or you get %PCSI-E-FILENOTPUR messages.   K V1.5-1 did it itself/implicitely (because I didn't do it explicitely then).   % Why has this changed? Bug or feature?    TIA    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.515 ************************